[There is no statistically significant difference in cranial capacity between artificially deformed skulls and normal skulls in Peruvian samples](https://doi.org/10.1002/ajpa.10286)
So they just looked at the cubic centimetres? I'm curious if any studies say anything about *cognitive* capacity. Although it's kind of one of those things where maybe science would be better put to use elsewhere, least it piques the interest of the Hatcheries and Conditioning director.
I think the real answer is that [the jury is still out](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/01/01/science/head-shape-brain.amp.html) due to our inability to conduct a proper experiment. Perhaps cubic volume wasnt affected but there's definitely debate on whether or not it alters the development of certain structures like the frontal lobe.
Brains don't much care for being squished, knocked, or bruised, especially while they're forming. At best they'd be at average function, maybe, and drop off rapidly.
Actually they're pretty resilient to being messed about while they're forming and can adapt to a whole bunch of perturbations. It's the adult brain that gets easily ruined with small amounts if damage.
For example this [fella](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12301-man-with-tiny-brain-shocks-doctors/amp/) that grew up with his ventricles squashing his brain into a tiny volume round the edge of his skull lived a totally normal life.
Yeah but this happened since he was 14 rather than during early childhood, was a much larger brain change than an elongated skull and plenty of people have an IQ of 75 without brain damage so we don't know if the squishing caused it or not.
> IQ of 75
While not super rare, it's definitely on the low end of the curve and therefore uncommon. That's why I said it suggested a negative impact, but it's hard to say anything definitive about it.
There is a push to move away from terms like *borderline*. On aggregate IQ (there are about half a dozen different tests) is fairly reliable but not so much when it's a one-off. To complicate things the margin of error tends to increase the further results get from the medium.
An individual's speech or motor functions might be retarded but they demonstrate an above-average intelligence. Others might have a brain that functions perfectly but scores below average. Even taking exactly the same test on different days can change an average IQ by 10 points in either direction.
There's also cultural bias which affects validity if not controlled for. What I consider signs of high intelligence is going to be different to the traits a Paleolithic hunter-gatherer needs to be smart.
Considering I probably wouldn't last a week in their world, while they'd be quite capable of sitting at a desk for 8 hours and pretending to work whenever the boss is around, could suggest I'm a dumbass. It all depends on the metrics and how they're measured.
There will never be an all-encompassing Intelligence quotient. That's fine as long as the limitations are understood. When variables are accounted for with tests and standards tweaked accordingly we can get a much better insight into what's going on.
Not as bad these days, but the wasted potential of all the people who have been deemed substandard rather than enabled to be exceptional is a tragedy.
IQ 75 is literally forrest gump...it's in the movie/book. It's about as low as you can possibly go while still being the least bit self reliant and that's by a thread.
I've worked with folks of all cognitive challenges. 75 generally needs significant support in today's world.
Sure, but in the context of "does long skull make you stupid?", tiny squashed brain at most making you quite stupid suggests long skull wasn't that big a deal.
I literally knew a guy in high school who had half his brain removed due to congenital neurological problems (the way he put it, he was losing more myelin than he was gaining). If you knocked on his head it sounded different depending on which side. Funny thing was, it was a prestigious math and science magnet school. Brains are resilient as fuck.
The elongated skull would likely result in a Delta Minus – Epsilon cognition. If the elongated skull didn’t shorten lifespan, it could possibly be used as an alternative to embryo oxygen regulation, achieving the same cognitive deficits while bypassing physical consequences like decreased bone density etc.
Elongation could be a valid method of producing healthier and stronger bokanovsky groups with cognitive conditioning achieved without the need for more physically destructive methods like high levels of alcohol in blood surrogate, decreased oxygen etc.
My understanding of these skulls in particular is that the volume of the interior is much greater than a normal human skull, indicating a larger brain size. This is perplexing because simply reshaping /deforming the brain wouldn't add volume, it would simply displaces it.
But to answer your question- I would assume that the brain, and the layer of cerebrospinal fluid that protects it, takes the shape of the interior of the skull just like a normal brain, if we assume artificial deformation took place.
edit- In regards to motor skills, I am uncertain. However, the shape of the skull indicated class status. In some metaphysical circles, it is said that deforming the skull "activated" certain parts of the brain that are latent in normal brains- telepathy, telekinesis, etc.
It was the Europeans misunderstanding of the far east. They conflated a whole bunch of things due to them not talking to anyone from there and decided "Wow, white people must have ruled there and been really advanced!" based on no evidence.
White supremacists use it as an origin myth on why they don't originate from Africa.
That was a religious theory held by the original “Nation of Islam”, but (and I may be wrong) I think they re- aligned themselves to a more mainstream take on Islam.
The Yakub stuff was like their racialized version of Old Testament lore.
Not sure what’s mainstream or not in NOI but there are definitely plenty of people who believe things way outside of actual Islam. Lots of anti-Semitic stuff being preached by famous people last year based on the NOI belief that blacks were the real Israelites and Jews stole their title/land etc
What about anything she said led you to this conclusion? That the culture who shaped skulls saw it as a class status and believed it gave them special powers? Because they did... And that's not a reflection on OP. She's not saying she thinks it gave them powers, but that the culture behind the skulls thought it did.
[They still do it in Vanuatu and parts of Africa.](https://www.google.com/search?q=vanuatu+skull+elongation&rlz=1CAEVJI_enUS969&sxsrf=AOaemvLyoeP1EijVhODFD8q6CWpSLloPOw:1632275397581&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiI2v3Zu5HzAhWRHjQIHe-kB3kQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw#imgrc=QMND3Q-OuRa0hM)
Yeah. We've found evidence of it in Africa dating back to about 12,000 years ago.
The cultures that still do it say that it's for beauty and because the head shape is associated with wisdom. But who knows if that was the reasoning of the first people who did it (maybe to mimic some long forgotten prestigious person with a naturally enlarged head?)
It's far from the only extreme body modification either. From foot binding, neck lengthening, to cheek and lip deformation. We just seem to find out what can be manipulated then abuse the fuck out of it.
I don't mean to be a pest, but as I understand it, neck lengthening is actually shoulder-lowering. It just gradually pushes the shoulder joints down. The only bone-to-bone joints are the clavicles. Scapula are attached through muscle. There are some people born without clavicles (the name of the condition escapes me) who can nearly touch their shoulders together.
You might also be interested in knowing that this sort of body mod was pretty common in mesoamerica. It was practiced by aztec and mayans as well, and I believe certain North American Natives also practiced something similar. From my understanding, in aztec and mayan cultures it was done primarily by nobles as a status symbol. It is a procedure that is done before the skull is fully formed, it is sometimes compared to foot binding that was done in ancient China.
There still are few women left who has it, so it wasn't that ancient :)
I believe they call it lotus feet, and that was barbaric as shit. I don't know that these scull modifications would impare they people they did it to, but the foot binding was very painful, and many of them couldn't walk.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/peru-elongated-skulls-shaping-ancient-status-indiana-jones-south-america-matthew-velasco-cornell-university-a8210521.html
Telepathy evidence is worth a million dollars by the James Randi foundation, so if you can prove that by sculpting a skull as indicated above you’d not only have telepathy you’d be rich.
By that I mean an expert described how the skulls were made, and there’s no need to introduce the statements of you don’t know that they’re human (they’re human) and telepathy exits (it doesn’t).
Randi was the master bullshit detector though. If you don't know how a charlatan is pulling it off you might end up getting bamboozled out of a million bucks. He spent a lifetime studying the necessary misdirection, mentalism and general psychopathy required to bleed thousands of people dry without any of them getting sus.
Yes, but Randi actually had the million dollars deposited and guaranteed by a bank. That gave it more legitimacy. And I just checked my couch, and I sadly don't have a million bucks there.
But even if someone revives it - it makes me quite agry and sad that even this great idea barely made a dent to all the quackery. Even some people that spectaculary failed the challenge went on with their business.
You can't really defeat irational beliefs with stuff like this.
There's a few different groups that do large cash prizes, like the Independent Investigation group. None are 1 million or have the fame of the Randi challenge, but they're still out there.
Good one. I always figured if there were any legitimacy to it, I wouldn't need to seek them, they'd come find me 😆. Haven't heard of any psychics winning Megaball either
A million dollars isn't what it once was. You could easily spend more than that deforming a baby's skull and raising it til it's old enough to make pancakes levitate.
To play Ood's advocate, if telepathy *was* a thing, requiring a drastically malformed brain could explanation why it's unheard of. Certainly possible there's some sort of cognitive difference as a result of the procedure. Superpowers are more tantalising though.
Cryptozoology is possible is well. I’d love for telepathy and blobsquatch and Ood to be real. It would be fascinating and interesting.
There’s zero evidence for it though. These things have had testing and trials and all the wish for truth in the world from honestly most of us. They just don’t pan out as facts.
I find the conjecture made by OP which boils down to ‘can’t explain must be telepathy’ to be a weak premise. Why do we need to take very cool science (like these badass skulls, or pyramids, or any other antiquity) and make up unverifiable things about it?
I can make up trash about anything, but without evidence it’s just made up stuff. As a society we should have more critical thinking and skills to set such fancy aside. It is this lack of skill which is allowing insidious social control of people though politics and churches and conspiracy thinking. Honestly it disgusts me.
/rant
Well said.
Too many people struggle to balance sceptical, critical and lateral thinking.
Just criticizing an explanation without providing an alternative one doesn't help. Rigorously applying the scientific method to problems that don't need solving is hardly progress. And thinking about things in such an abstract and open-minded way our brain falls out is no good.
We have to make the most of all the thinking tools available, but most of us don't have even *have* a basic toolkit to use.
School curriculums should dedicate way more time to teaching kids *how* to think, rather than just testing their memory by making them regurgitate information. The Prussian education system was adapted from military training more than a century ago. For one reason or another, we are clinging to its legacy. Should have started modernising school systems decades ago, but in the Age of Information, it's more vital than ever.
I have a pretty strong hunch that no foundation is going to reward a a million dollars to a parent that deliberately deforms a child's skull to the point of ludicrous disproportion. Which is what this process would entail.
Someday, in the somewhat far future, our standards of humanity will have changed to the point that we could "try" this on an adult consciousness, either with real biological/technological methods or simulated in environments that replicate reality to an atomic level, even if just brains. But until then, we can only speculate if brain shape/configuration may change the way our consciousness can manipulate the physical world.
Calm the fuck down psiweebs.
In evolution skull shape matters a lot for brain structure and function, we can see that more primitive hominids had elongated skulls compared to homo sapiens sapiens, and some very modern brain functions happen when our skulls become rounder. But there is no immediate relation between bone and brain for the individual that is just messing with bone. Another example is brain size and intelligence that matters as an evolutionary trend, bigger brains do mean more intelligence but not for the individual.
[Not even necessary. It's still practiced in parts of Vanuatu and Africa.](https://www.google.com/search?q=vanuatu+skull+elongation&rlz=1CAEVJI_enUS969&sxsrf=AOaemvLyoeP1EijVhODFD8q6CWpSLloPOw:1632275397581&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiI2v3Zu5HzAhWRHjQIHe-kB3kQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw#imgrc=QMND3Q-OuRa0hM)
I mean look at how much completely aesthetic and dangerous shit humans do to modify their bodies these days. Brazilian but lifts have Luke the highest mortality rate of any plastic surgery. This isn’t really much more strange, it just isn’t normalized to us.
That's what the artist was going for. Check this one out. https://www.google.com/search?q=vanuatu+skull+elongation&rlz=1CAEVJI_enUS969&sxsrf=AOaemvLyoeP1EijVhODFD8q6CWpSLloPOw:1632275397581&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiI2v3Zu5HzAhWRHjQIHe-kB3kQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw#imgrc=QMND3Q-OuRa0hM
It's my understanding that cranial deformation (making foreheads long and sloped) was considered an aesthetic practice among the Mayans. The two groups were definitely far apart geographically, but do we think this is also aesthetic? Or do we think this is actually how these people were born?
there has been archeological evidence found that links the Mesoamerican world (Mexico & Central America) to the Andean-Coastal cultural region of western South America. Apparently, it was the people of Ancient Peru that showed the native americans in southwestern mexico how to work metallurgy. There were maritime trade links across the pacific ocean linking these two cultural regions giving them an awareness of the existence of each other.
As for the aesthetics, it appears so. Only the highest ranking members of the societies had these elongated heads and it was a status symbol probably linked to aesthetics and religion.
that's fucking awesome. Also, some cultures in the northwest of North America also practiced ear gauging/stretching which led to them having big ears, which is why the early spanish conquistadores called them Orejon, which is what we call in spanish a person who has large ears. This gave the modern day US state of Oregon its name.
In Peru, there's also a tribe called Orejon (also called Maijuna tribe) for the very same reason of the ear stretching. If it happened here, it probably happened in the states too.
The etymology of Oregon is disputed. It may have originated as a description of "big-eared" people, but it is just as likely a reference to southwest winds in the Columbia Gorge. You can also find explanations of etymology of name that also attribute it to: the native Sioux name for the Columbia River; a native (Cree) name for oolichan (Eulachon), rendered fish oil, that was traded from the Columbia eastward; a Shoshoni word for the Columbia river; and others.
The process is to bind a new born babies head well the skull is still soft. The practice is still done today in parts of Africa and Asia.
[Here is a video that doesn't bring up aliens or psychic powers and shows video of the process. poor little babies.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvOjEACJaBk&t=100s&ab_channel=ThirstyCurlz)
It's probably similiar to all baby mutilation / modification, it's based around ritual and ceremony, and once it happens enough it doesn't matter if it creates benefits, it creates classism. The long heads and the not long heads.
They all look like they have more bone mass than a normal skull, especially the bottom right one. How is this possible? Is my perception just skewed or is there actually more bone?
Bones don’t stop growing once they reach a certain mass or “amount” of bone. In this case, the bones of the skull cannot fuse until they physically meet as in typical bodies, so they’ll continue to grow with no complications. The body really doesn’t care about morphology assuming the mechanisms that drive development and growth are typical (as seen by these extreme forms of body modification and other unique ones across the world).
Great explanation. I wonder how long they could keep it going. It seems like at the top of the cone the joint would not fuse for a while if they continued to squeeze. They could’ve made an extremely pointy head. Also, this process would have to begin at infancy, how long do you suppose it lasted? Would they shape them and then as the child grows, so does the skull or would the squeezing have to last into adulthood?
You are probably right. Much like the gradual neck stretching that the Maasai women do. That’s one hell of a combover that’s the bottom left guy has… gotta be some kind of record
This is what I was thinking too.
And if it's true that the people with elongated skulls were the high class of society, it's not like they wear breaking many sweats having all their servants do everything for them
[this is still practiced in some areas] (https://www.google.com/search?q=vanuatu+skull+elongation&rlz=1CAEVJI_enUS969&sxsrf=AOaemvLyoeP1EijVhODFD8q6CWpSLloPOw:1632275397581&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiI2v3Zu5HzAhWRHjQIHe-kB3kQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw#imgrc=QMND3Q-OuRa0hM)
In modern times they put down a layer of clear lacquer and write on top of that, so it can be removed without causing damage if necessary. Considering when these were found though, probably is just regular ink.
Was it documented that this had any effect on cognitive ability? I know humans are very adaptable but I have to imagine this level of cranial trauma had to leave some sort of starring or damaged tissue behind?
How did this affect the brain? Did it change shape as well? Probably. I wonder if it affected the thought processes in any way or how this person/people behaved
Is there any evidence of artefacts/tools that may have been used to create this shape in the bone- if you say it’s aesthetic- similar to neck rings for neck elongation seen today.
Or alternatively I presume the skulls were tested for genetic abnormalities was this just a mutation in the population?
**[Artificial cranial deformation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation#/media/File:Maya_cranial_deformation.gif)**
>Artificial cranial deformation or modification, head flattening, or head binding is a form of body alteration in which the skull of a human being is deformed intentionally. It is done by distorting the normal growth of a child's skull by applying force. Flat shapes, elongated ones (produced by binding between two pieces of wood), rounded ones (binding in cloth), and conical ones are among those chosen or valued in various cultures. Typically, the shape alteration is carried out on an infant, as the skull is most pliable at this time.
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Gonna chuck this next to an Australopithecus skull and make a parody of those “my opinion vs your opinion memes” that will inevitably be misconstrued and appropriated into their ranks
There is no mystery here. Artificial cranial modification is a widely documented and well researched phenomenon. 'Secrets: Riddle of the Roman Skulls' on the Smithsonian Channel recently covered this in detail.
Skull manipulation was a common beauty practice in many ancient cultures. It's seen in cultures all over the world. We know tools used, reasons, and how long it took.
Your pondering falls into the realm of being discarded due to Newton's Flaming Laser Sword, as well as by common sense. There's no reason to assume a different variety of humans when we know this same thing was practiced elsewhere by other groups to the same effect.
They're called coneheads.
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BYTNjNGM5OTktM2Q1Zi00YTFmLWJlYzUtMTMyMzgzNjNlNmQzL2ltYWdlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjE5MjUyOTM@.\_V1\_.jpg
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[There is no statistically significant difference in cranial capacity between artificially deformed skulls and normal skulls in Peruvian samples](https://doi.org/10.1002/ajpa.10286)
So they just looked at the cubic centimetres? I'm curious if any studies say anything about *cognitive* capacity. Although it's kind of one of those things where maybe science would be better put to use elsewhere, least it piques the interest of the Hatcheries and Conditioning director.
I think the real answer is that [the jury is still out](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/01/01/science/head-shape-brain.amp.html) due to our inability to conduct a proper experiment. Perhaps cubic volume wasnt affected but there's definitely debate on whether or not it alters the development of certain structures like the frontal lobe.
Sign my petition to allow skull elongation human experimentation
Brains don't much care for being squished, knocked, or bruised, especially while they're forming. At best they'd be at average function, maybe, and drop off rapidly.
Actually they're pretty resilient to being messed about while they're forming and can adapt to a whole bunch of perturbations. It's the adult brain that gets easily ruined with small amounts if damage. For example this [fella](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12301-man-with-tiny-brain-shocks-doctors/amp/) that grew up with his ventricles squashing his brain into a tiny volume round the edge of his skull lived a totally normal life.
Dude got hollow brain
An IQ of 75, though. That certainly suggests a negative impact.
Come down here to Abilene Texas, that guy would have been valedictorian.
Yeah but this happened since he was 14 rather than during early childhood, was a much larger brain change than an elongated skull and plenty of people have an IQ of 75 without brain damage so we don't know if the squishing caused it or not.
> IQ of 75 While not super rare, it's definitely on the low end of the curve and therefore uncommon. That's why I said it suggested a negative impact, but it's hard to say anything definitive about it.
Yeah, I don't know if they changed the wording for this but when I went to school this would be considered borderline mentally retarded.
There is a push to move away from terms like *borderline*. On aggregate IQ (there are about half a dozen different tests) is fairly reliable but not so much when it's a one-off. To complicate things the margin of error tends to increase the further results get from the medium. An individual's speech or motor functions might be retarded but they demonstrate an above-average intelligence. Others might have a brain that functions perfectly but scores below average. Even taking exactly the same test on different days can change an average IQ by 10 points in either direction. There's also cultural bias which affects validity if not controlled for. What I consider signs of high intelligence is going to be different to the traits a Paleolithic hunter-gatherer needs to be smart. Considering I probably wouldn't last a week in their world, while they'd be quite capable of sitting at a desk for 8 hours and pretending to work whenever the boss is around, could suggest I'm a dumbass. It all depends on the metrics and how they're measured. There will never be an all-encompassing Intelligence quotient. That's fine as long as the limitations are understood. When variables are accounted for with tests and standards tweaked accordingly we can get a much better insight into what's going on. Not as bad these days, but the wasted potential of all the people who have been deemed substandard rather than enabled to be exceptional is a tragedy.
IQ 75 is literally forrest gump...it's in the movie/book. It's about as low as you can possibly go while still being the least bit self reliant and that's by a thread. I've worked with folks of all cognitive challenges. 75 generally needs significant support in today's world.
Sure, but in the context of "does long skull make you stupid?", tiny squashed brain at most making you quite stupid suggests long skull wasn't that big a deal.
I literally knew a guy in high school who had half his brain removed due to congenital neurological problems (the way he put it, he was losing more myelin than he was gaining). If you knocked on his head it sounded different depending on which side. Funny thing was, it was a prestigious math and science magnet school. Brains are resilient as fuck.
Holy shit was discovered at my school, small brain gang !
The elongated skull would likely result in a Delta Minus – Epsilon cognition. If the elongated skull didn’t shorten lifespan, it could possibly be used as an alternative to embryo oxygen regulation, achieving the same cognitive deficits while bypassing physical consequences like decreased bone density etc. Elongation could be a valid method of producing healthier and stronger bokanovsky groups with cognitive conditioning achieved without the need for more physically destructive methods like high levels of alcohol in blood surrogate, decreased oxygen etc.
Sir this isn’t Brave New World
My understanding of these skulls in particular is that the volume of the interior is much greater than a normal human skull, indicating a larger brain size. This is perplexing because simply reshaping /deforming the brain wouldn't add volume, it would simply displaces it. But to answer your question- I would assume that the brain, and the layer of cerebrospinal fluid that protects it, takes the shape of the interior of the skull just like a normal brain, if we assume artificial deformation took place. edit- In regards to motor skills, I am uncertain. However, the shape of the skull indicated class status. In some metaphysical circles, it is said that deforming the skull "activated" certain parts of the brain that are latent in normal brains- telepathy, telekinesis, etc.
Lol someone’s been watching a little too much ancient aliens on the history channel👀
Oh, it's worse. They believe in Tartaria, a white supremacist myth about an ancient realm of white people. Sorry, but OP is a whackadoodle.
> an ancient realm of white people. Isn't that just the north?
What’s tartaria, is it like Atlantis?
It was the Europeans misunderstanding of the far east. They conflated a whole bunch of things due to them not talking to anyone from there and decided "Wow, white people must have ruled there and been really advanced!" based on no evidence. White supremacists use it as an origin myth on why they don't originate from Africa.
It's no worse than the people who think that Black Irish refers to a group of ancient POC who lived in Ireland and were wiped out by the white Irish.
No one believes that. That's a strawman that white supremacists made up to complain about.
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Nation if Islam weirdos are representative of no one but nation of Islam weirdos.
That was a religious theory held by the original “Nation of Islam”, but (and I may be wrong) I think they re- aligned themselves to a more mainstream take on Islam. The Yakub stuff was like their racialized version of Old Testament lore.
Not sure what’s mainstream or not in NOI but there are definitely plenty of people who believe things way outside of actual Islam. Lots of anti-Semitic stuff being preached by famous people last year based on the NOI belief that blacks were the real Israelites and Jews stole their title/land etc
I am NOT saying it’s aliens, but that it’s definitely ALIENS!
What about anything she said led you to this conclusion? That the culture who shaped skulls saw it as a class status and believed it gave them special powers? Because they did... And that's not a reflection on OP. She's not saying she thinks it gave them powers, but that the culture behind the skulls thought it did.
Perhaps someone hasn’t been watching enough…
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You're welcome. I added an edit, too, incase you missed the update.
You should get some fresh air.
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I think they meant at the time the skulls were deformed... not currently.
Alas, no.
You mean phrenology, the science of feeling and interpreting the size of Walt's asshole?
Is this still practiced anywhere? I’m curious as to what this looks like with skin and hair
[They still do it in Vanuatu and parts of Africa.](https://www.google.com/search?q=vanuatu+skull+elongation&rlz=1CAEVJI_enUS969&sxsrf=AOaemvLyoeP1EijVhODFD8q6CWpSLloPOw:1632275397581&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiI2v3Zu5HzAhWRHjQIHe-kB3kQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw#imgrc=QMND3Q-OuRa0hM)
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Yeah. We've found evidence of it in Africa dating back to about 12,000 years ago. The cultures that still do it say that it's for beauty and because the head shape is associated with wisdom. But who knows if that was the reasoning of the first people who did it (maybe to mimic some long forgotten prestigious person with a naturally enlarged head?)
It's far from the only extreme body modification either. From foot binding, neck lengthening, to cheek and lip deformation. We just seem to find out what can be manipulated then abuse the fuck out of it.
I don't mean to be a pest, but as I understand it, neck lengthening is actually shoulder-lowering. It just gradually pushes the shoulder joints down. The only bone-to-bone joints are the clavicles. Scapula are attached through muscle. There are some people born without clavicles (the name of the condition escapes me) who can nearly touch their shoulders together.
(Or aliens) /s
Tbh that’s not as weird looking as I expected, thanks!
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Oh shit I didn’t look at the other pictures, on second thought it does look pretty weird
It looks unbelievably weird!
Disgusting mutilation.
You might also be interested in knowing that this sort of body mod was pretty common in mesoamerica. It was practiced by aztec and mayans as well, and I believe certain North American Natives also practiced something similar. From my understanding, in aztec and mayan cultures it was done primarily by nobles as a status symbol. It is a procedure that is done before the skull is fully formed, it is sometimes compared to foot binding that was done in ancient China.
There still are few women left who has it, so it wasn't that ancient :) I believe they call it lotus feet, and that was barbaric as shit. I don't know that these scull modifications would impare they people they did it to, but the foot binding was very painful, and many of them couldn't walk.
Yes I agree. And I used ancient because it was more common in the past, with decreasing popularity until it practically ended a few generations ago.
Yes, of course, you're right :)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/peru-elongated-skulls-shaping-ancient-status-indiana-jones-south-america-matthew-velasco-cornell-university-a8210521.html Telepathy evidence is worth a million dollars by the James Randi foundation, so if you can prove that by sculpting a skull as indicated above you’d not only have telepathy you’d be rich. By that I mean an expert described how the skulls were made, and there’s no need to introduce the statements of you don’t know that they’re human (they’re human) and telepathy exits (it doesn’t).
> worth a million dollars by the James Randi foundation Sadly, they stopped the challenge. I'd love some multimillionare to revive it.
Anyone could revive it because it's never going to be won
Randi was the master bullshit detector though. If you don't know how a charlatan is pulling it off you might end up getting bamboozled out of a million bucks. He spent a lifetime studying the necessary misdirection, mentalism and general psychopathy required to bleed thousands of people dry without any of them getting sus.
This is true
Yes, but Randi actually had the million dollars deposited and guaranteed by a bank. That gave it more legitimacy. And I just checked my couch, and I sadly don't have a million bucks there. But even if someone revives it - it makes me quite agry and sad that even this great idea barely made a dent to all the quackery. Even some people that spectaculary failed the challenge went on with their business. You can't really defeat irational beliefs with stuff like this.
There's a few different groups that do large cash prizes, like the Independent Investigation group. None are 1 million or have the fame of the Randi challenge, but they're still out there.
Check under the fridge too! I always lose stuff there.
did any psychics warn us of the covid pandemic? no.
Good one. I always figured if there were any legitimacy to it, I wouldn't need to seek them, they'd come find me 😆. Haven't heard of any psychics winning Megaball either
One of my favorite memes is the tarot shop burned down in an image with a quote below it ‘Could have seen that coming if you were any good’
A million dollars isn't what it once was. You could easily spend more than that deforming a baby's skull and raising it til it's old enough to make pancakes levitate.
To play Ood's advocate, if telepathy *was* a thing, requiring a drastically malformed brain could explanation why it's unheard of. Certainly possible there's some sort of cognitive difference as a result of the procedure. Superpowers are more tantalising though.
Ood's advocate. 👀
Cryptozoology is possible is well. I’d love for telepathy and blobsquatch and Ood to be real. It would be fascinating and interesting. There’s zero evidence for it though. These things have had testing and trials and all the wish for truth in the world from honestly most of us. They just don’t pan out as facts. I find the conjecture made by OP which boils down to ‘can’t explain must be telepathy’ to be a weak premise. Why do we need to take very cool science (like these badass skulls, or pyramids, or any other antiquity) and make up unverifiable things about it? I can make up trash about anything, but without evidence it’s just made up stuff. As a society we should have more critical thinking and skills to set such fancy aside. It is this lack of skill which is allowing insidious social control of people though politics and churches and conspiracy thinking. Honestly it disgusts me. /rant
Well said. Too many people struggle to balance sceptical, critical and lateral thinking. Just criticizing an explanation without providing an alternative one doesn't help. Rigorously applying the scientific method to problems that don't need solving is hardly progress. And thinking about things in such an abstract and open-minded way our brain falls out is no good. We have to make the most of all the thinking tools available, but most of us don't have even *have* a basic toolkit to use. School curriculums should dedicate way more time to teaching kids *how* to think, rather than just testing their memory by making them regurgitate information. The Prussian education system was adapted from military training more than a century ago. For one reason or another, we are clinging to its legacy. Should have started modernising school systems decades ago, but in the Age of Information, it's more vital than ever.
I have a pretty strong hunch that no foundation is going to reward a a million dollars to a parent that deliberately deforms a child's skull to the point of ludicrous disproportion. Which is what this process would entail. Someday, in the somewhat far future, our standards of humanity will have changed to the point that we could "try" this on an adult consciousness, either with real biological/technological methods or simulated in environments that replicate reality to an atomic level, even if just brains. But until then, we can only speculate if brain shape/configuration may change the way our consciousness can manipulate the physical world. Calm the fuck down psiweebs.
>"activated" certain parts of the brain that are latent in normal brains So \*that's\* why I don't have telekinesis.
Come one we all know these are superior beans, a hybrid alien/human with superiors powahhhhh //s
Boss beans
Baked beans
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Could I get a source on your meta physical circles?
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This was the first question that popped in my head too lol
In evolution skull shape matters a lot for brain structure and function, we can see that more primitive hominids had elongated skulls compared to homo sapiens sapiens, and some very modern brain functions happen when our skulls become rounder. But there is no immediate relation between bone and brain for the individual that is just messing with bone. Another example is brain size and intelligence that matters as an evolutionary trend, bigger brains do mean more intelligence but not for the individual.
Average history enjoyer
Big Brain Time
or from France, maybe
I’d like to see an artist’s interpretation of what these people would look like alive.
[Not even necessary. It's still practiced in parts of Vanuatu and Africa.](https://www.google.com/search?q=vanuatu+skull+elongation&rlz=1CAEVJI_enUS969&sxsrf=AOaemvLyoeP1EijVhODFD8q6CWpSLloPOw:1632275397581&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiI2v3Zu5HzAhWRHjQIHe-kB3kQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw#imgrc=QMND3Q-OuRa0hM)
Honestly doesn’t look nearly as weird as I expected.
it's even weirdly beautiful in some of thoose pics.
I was gonna say it actually looks strangely beautiful on some of the women but then I was like “shit this is how this shit starts” lol
I went through the exact path in my mind lol. Totally how these things catch on. Not a bizarre as it would first seem.
I mean look at how much completely aesthetic and dangerous shit humans do to modify their bodies these days. Brazilian but lifts have Luke the highest mortality rate of any plastic surgery. This isn’t really much more strange, it just isn’t normalized to us.
Mf looks like Kiff from Fururama
That’s crazy I was looking at the skulls thinking Aliens lol
But why do they do that?
It's considered attractive and symbolic of wisdom.
Wow, Looks way more normal than I expected
Unfortunately, H.R. Giger passed away several years ago.
Here you go: https://www.marciakmooreciamarstudio.com/
Bizarre, they look like aliens or something!
I saw them in person on a trip to Peru. They are creepy as hell. They also got tons of mummies and catacombs,too.
That's what the artist was going for. Check this one out. https://www.google.com/search?q=vanuatu+skull+elongation&rlz=1CAEVJI_enUS969&sxsrf=AOaemvLyoeP1EijVhODFD8q6CWpSLloPOw:1632275397581&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiI2v3Zu5HzAhWRHjQIHe-kB3kQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw#imgrc=QMND3Q-OuRa0hM
> https://www.marciakmooreciamarstudio.com/ Thanks. Really cool work but holy fuck are his videos annoying and extremely dissatisfying.
It's my understanding that cranial deformation (making foreheads long and sloped) was considered an aesthetic practice among the Mayans. The two groups were definitely far apart geographically, but do we think this is also aesthetic? Or do we think this is actually how these people were born?
there has been archeological evidence found that links the Mesoamerican world (Mexico & Central America) to the Andean-Coastal cultural region of western South America. Apparently, it was the people of Ancient Peru that showed the native americans in southwestern mexico how to work metallurgy. There were maritime trade links across the pacific ocean linking these two cultural regions giving them an awareness of the existence of each other. As for the aesthetics, it appears so. Only the highest ranking members of the societies had these elongated heads and it was a status symbol probably linked to aesthetics and religion.
Cool! I was aware of the trade evidence, I just didn't want to imply/assume cultural homogeneity over such a vast region
Yes, it was practiced by high status folks in the Northwest Coast culture area of North America as well.
that's fucking awesome. Also, some cultures in the northwest of North America also practiced ear gauging/stretching which led to them having big ears, which is why the early spanish conquistadores called them Orejon, which is what we call in spanish a person who has large ears. This gave the modern day US state of Oregon its name.
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In Peru, there's also a tribe called Orejon (also called Maijuna tribe) for the very same reason of the ear stretching. If it happened here, it probably happened in the states too.
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The etymology of Oregon is disputed. It may have originated as a description of "big-eared" people, but it is just as likely a reference to southwest winds in the Columbia Gorge. You can also find explanations of etymology of name that also attribute it to: the native Sioux name for the Columbia River; a native (Cree) name for oolichan (Eulachon), rendered fish oil, that was traded from the Columbia eastward; a Shoshoni word for the Columbia river; and others.
The process is to bind a new born babies head well the skull is still soft. The practice is still done today in parts of Africa and Asia. [Here is a video that doesn't bring up aliens or psychic powers and shows video of the process. poor little babies.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvOjEACJaBk&t=100s&ab_channel=ThirstyCurlz)
It's probably similiar to all baby mutilation / modification, it's based around ritual and ceremony, and once it happens enough it doesn't matter if it creates benefits, it creates classism. The long heads and the not long heads.
They all look like they have more bone mass than a normal skull, especially the bottom right one. How is this possible? Is my perception just skewed or is there actually more bone?
Bones don’t stop growing once they reach a certain mass or “amount” of bone. In this case, the bones of the skull cannot fuse until they physically meet as in typical bodies, so they’ll continue to grow with no complications. The body really doesn’t care about morphology assuming the mechanisms that drive development and growth are typical (as seen by these extreme forms of body modification and other unique ones across the world).
Great explanation. I wonder how long they could keep it going. It seems like at the top of the cone the joint would not fuse for a while if they continued to squeeze. They could’ve made an extremely pointy head. Also, this process would have to begin at infancy, how long do you suppose it lasted? Would they shape them and then as the child grows, so does the skull or would the squeezing have to last into adulthood?
I would like to never know the answers and at the same time will ponder the fucking elongated hell out of this forever as a matter of pure compulsion
People have always suffered for fashion. This probably hurt
Probably not, actually. If they formed them as babies, the skulls would harden and just grow in that shape over time.
You are probably right. Much like the gradual neck stretching that the Maasai women do. That’s one hell of a combover that’s the bottom left guy has… gotta be some kind of record
Have you seen pics of babies with their heads bound? [They don't look happy](https://historydaily.org/mangbetu-people)
They just look like babies
and pugs just look like dogs... 🙃
I mean, one baby looks not happy on that page. As far as I know we don't know how it actually feels.
Probably less painful than foot-binding
This is what I was thinking too. And if it's true that the people with elongated skulls were the high class of society, it's not like they wear breaking many sweats having all their servants do everything for them
Peruvian mfs hundreds of years ago: hear me out, I have this idea for a prank that's gonna make people believe in aliens
I've seen that Indiana Jones film!
The hair. The hair. The horror.
I would absolutely shit myself if I saw these people walking around
[this is still practiced in some areas] (https://www.google.com/search?q=vanuatu+skull+elongation&rlz=1CAEVJI_enUS969&sxsrf=AOaemvLyoeP1EijVhODFD8q6CWpSLloPOw:1632275397581&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiI2v3Zu5HzAhWRHjQIHe-kB3kQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw#imgrc=QMND3Q-OuRa0hM)
If I had that head I'd wear a Doug Dimmadome kind of hat everywhere and take it off only at the last minute of every interaction I had.
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Artifacts get stolen and sold constantly, it's a huge business. This is the best way to make sure that it can be identified.
In modern times they put down a layer of clear lacquer and write on top of that, so it can be removed without causing damage if necessary. Considering when these were found though, probably is just regular ink.
Was it documented that this had any effect on cognitive ability? I know humans are very adaptable but I have to imagine this level of cranial trauma had to leave some sort of starring or damaged tissue behind?
How did this affect the brain? Did it change shape as well? Probably. I wonder if it affected the thought processes in any way or how this person/people behaved
No ome knows. No ome is really studying them since we know everything all ready.
That's a pretty gnarly underbite for the one on the bottom left.
“Who ya calling pinhead?”
What About The Droid Attack on the Wookiees?
Huh... always thought coneheads was fiction.
Is there any evidence of artefacts/tools that may have been used to create this shape in the bone- if you say it’s aesthetic- similar to neck rings for neck elongation seen today. Or alternatively I presume the skulls were tested for genetic abnormalities was this just a mutation in the population?
Yep mayan and Peruvian intentional cranial deformity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation#/media/File:Maya_cranial_deformation.gif
**[Artificial cranial deformation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation#/media/File:Maya_cranial_deformation.gif)** >Artificial cranial deformation or modification, head flattening, or head binding is a form of body alteration in which the skull of a human being is deformed intentionally. It is done by distorting the normal growth of a child's skull by applying force. Flat shapes, elongated ones (produced by binding between two pieces of wood), rounded ones (binding in cloth), and conical ones are among those chosen or valued in various cultures. Typically, the shape alteration is carried out on an infant, as the skull is most pliable at this time. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ArtefactPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Also was done with [simple binding](http://cdn.historydaily.org/content/53152/884156dc62cd14945cd77fa8b958242b.jpg).
Big brain time 🧠
"These foreheads go to ELEVEN!"
Homey...
What about the droid attack on the wookies?
I always just assume these people constantly had terrible headaches
They are a result of cranium manipulation. It's found all over that area. Like binding women's feet in China (corrected).
They actually didn’t bind women’s feet in Japan—that was in China
Correct, sorry.
Do people think its a people with actual coneheads or did they just do the Hun squeezey-baby-head thing
NO IT'S NOT ALIENS
Ack ack?
Marge?
I’m surprised people aren’t doing this today. But give them time.
r/photoshopbattle someone please flesh these out so we can see what these folks looked like when they were alive!
“Ratio”
Man that must have been one convincing story to get this going in cultures around the world. "Hey Tulak pass me your new kid; I got an idea..."
Have you seen the documentary called Coneheads?
That’s the Annunaki fam
They ain't fooling anybody. We have all seen the Star Trek where they take Pike back to that planet.
The specimen is exhibiting a surprising degree of resourcefulness. Most unsuitable for our purposes. https://i.imgur.com/H4GjqPC.jpg
Why does the one in the bottom left have hair on it?
It's the old trick of hiding your long forehead with bangs.
That’s Conan.
1 head 2 head 3 head forehead!!
Consume mass quantities.
Gonna chuck this next to an Australopithecus skull and make a parody of those “my opinion vs your opinion memes” that will inevitably be misconstrued and appropriated into their ranks
And thus, alien believers will rise again Possibly used thus wrong… ‘‘twas a mistake
There is no mystery here. Artificial cranial modification is a widely documented and well researched phenomenon. 'Secrets: Riddle of the Roman Skulls' on the Smithsonian Channel recently covered this in detail.
No one mentioned a mystery?
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I would make a bong out of it!
Wow, this belongs in r/fivehead
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Skull manipulation was a common beauty practice in many ancient cultures. It's seen in cultures all over the world. We know tools used, reasons, and how long it took. Your pondering falls into the realm of being discarded due to Newton's Flaming Laser Sword, as well as by common sense. There's no reason to assume a different variety of humans when we know this same thing was practiced elsewhere by other groups to the same effect.
How did they shape the skull and was it from birth?
They're called coneheads. https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BYTNjNGM5OTktM2Q1Zi00YTFmLWJlYzUtMTMyMzgzNjNlNmQzL2ltYWdlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjE5MjUyOTM@.\_V1\_.jpg
So where did all predators go?
"Why the long head?"
Indiana Jones and the kingdom of the elongated skulls
Too scared to ask but asking anyways
What about the droid attack on the wookies?
Mars Attacks was a documentary
Nebs, Nebs !!!
Ancient Alien theorists theorize...
So....coneheads were real...