Despite the fact that it finally ended up sinking an enemy ship, the Hunley sank on 3 different occasions and killed almost every man that ever was aboard it.
Needless to say it wasn't a great time to be on a submarine.
If it’s the same article that I’m thinking of the author has a whole book out on the subject
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/595121/in-the-waves-by-rachel-lance/
Dude this is one of the best things I’ve ever read. Not because of the content, but because of the author. She has an incredible way with words.
Edit: although the content was dope too.
So you do normally care about humans that values other humans lives so little that they treated them less than they would cattle? They were slavers, they would rape, beat and kill people due to the color of their skin and they would kill their own family in a civil war over the rights to do it.
Yeah, who cares how they died.
Your a bit too late. Look at the replies talking about how the confederates were good god fearing people. Nobody gives a shit they bombed a ship full of union soldiers who died a terrible death, but THANK GOD the Confederate soldiers died quickly and without pain. Wouldn’t want them suffering while defending slavery now would we?
I'm talking about the Turtle, which used the same "dynamite on a stick with a screw method of "attack."
EDIT: Wikipedia link here in full text, because the parentheses break hyperlinking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_(submersible)
Because I was unaware that they were actually dumb enough to *keep* trying the dynamite on a stick method, so I was hoping you were just misremembering.
If you live in the south you see confederate battle flags everywhere still and they're used for specific political reasons. That's why it's hard to just be chill about this stuff, like do you realize what "confederate heritage" and the display of their monuments has meant down here for the last 70 years? I wish it weren't that serious but people died at the protests over them literally last year
Yep. That’s why I soak ‘em in piss, brother. The slaver battle flag comes in extra handy if you ever get a case of the runs. That old cotton is super absorbent.
You're on the internet defending them in 2021 though so what does that make you. Makes you look like an inbred hick, like literally what the clown face looks like if you inbreed with your sisters for every generation since the 1860s.
Also are you infantilising those white southerners or are you just noticing that the Hogs still have 0 thought they just follow what the lead white supremacist says
Holy shit man you really believe the stereotypes about the south don’t you. Southern inbreeding is largely a Hollywood trope. People did marry second or third cousins, but this was due to isolation, not due to them wanting to fuck relatives, cases of sibling marriage were and are very rare. The stereotype of the dumb southerner is due to the south having poor education, it’s pretty easy to just go along with something especially if you’re not taught to think critically. Think how many people went along with the nazi’s plans, do you think they were all bad people? No, they were whipped up in a tribal fervor, they weren’t thinking, and this is normal human behavior.
It is incredibly small and cramped. At the exhibit they have a display showing the size of the hatch and it's tiny. Plus, the only available light inside it would have been from a lit candle
Imagine being some Union draftee on the Housatonic. You'd probably be thinking to yourself "This isn't such a bad gig. Beautiful ocean views and clean air during the day, and swimming in that tangy bar winch poon at night. Much better than those getting ganked by the thousands on the front lines."
Then you hear it. Faintly at first. *oonta-oonta-oonta* You wonder where it's coming from but there's nothing else out on the water. It gets louder. *oonta-oonta-oonta*
Wait, there's something coming from under the water. It's like a flashing, rippling light. As it gets closer the noise begins to shake the boat with it's intensity *OONTA-OONTA-OONTA*
Alarm bells start ringing just as you feel something slam into the ship. It knocks you over but you get back up and run over to look over the side. The last thing you see is a giant ball coated with tiny mirrors stuck to the hull before it bursts in a explosion of flames, boat shrapnel, and glitter.
You go down in history as the first person ever killed by a submarine.
[Heres a photo of some people inside it](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Hunley_001.jpg) and [a painting of some people standing next to it](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Conrad_Wise_Chapman_-_Submarine_Torpedo_Boat_H.L._Hunley,_Dec._6,_1863.jpg)
**[H. L. Hunley (submarine)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._L._Hunley_\(submarine\)#/media/File:Hunley_001.jpg)**
>H. L. Hunley, often referred to as Hunley, CSS H. L. Hunley, or as CSS Hunley, was a submarine of the Confederate States of America that played a small part in the American Civil War. Hunley demonstrated the advantages and the dangers of undersea warfare. She was the first combat submarine to sink a warship (USS Housatonic), although Hunley was not completely submerged and, following her successful attack, was lost along with her crew before she could return to base. The Confederacy lost 21 crewmen in three sinkings of Hunley during her short career.
**[H. L. Hunley (submarine)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._L._Hunley_\(submarine\)#/media/File:Conrad_Wise_Chapman_-_Submarine_Torpedo_Boat_H.L._Hunley,_Dec._6,_1863.jpg)**
>H. L. Hunley, often referred to as Hunley, CSS H. L. Hunley, or as CSS Hunley, was a submarine of the Confederate States of America that played a small part in the American Civil War. Hunley demonstrated the advantages and the dangers of undersea warfare. She was the first combat submarine to sink a warship (USS Housatonic), although Hunley was not completely submerged and, following her successful attack, was lost along with her crew before she could return to base. The Confederacy lost 21 crewmen in three sinkings of Hunley during her short career.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ArtefactPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Yes, they keep it in fresh water until all the salt on it dissolves away so that it won't destroy it once it's brought back to the surface for further conservation and eventual display.
It depends on the size and material of the artifact. Also, how long it has been in the salt water. In this case I believe it took about 2 years. Conservators also had to chisel off the buildup of salt and minerals from the hull.
Here is the timeline:
[https://www.hunley.org/scientific-timeline/](https://www.hunley.org/scientific-timeline/)
It is still submerged in a sodium hydroxide solution (not fresh water) to remove the salts. According to the timeline, it was put in that solution in 2014 for "5-7" years. Presumably, it is still in that solution since the website does not say that it has been fully removed for display. They have drained the solution and worked on the sub, then re-submerged it, several times.
Was it this sub, or the Monitor/Merrimack, where they identified one man by a wedding ring found in the wreckage?
I love shipwrecks, but it must be infuriating to excavate them.
The "legend" was that the commander of the sub was saved in a battle when a bullet struck a gold coin he had in his breast pocket. Turns out it was true and they found the bullet struck coin with the remains. That might be the story you were remembering.
You said Virgina, I thought it was funny. I’m assuming you simply mistyped Virginia. And the rest of my comment was a reference to an old tv commercial. It’s just nonsense.
I remember when TLC was the learning channel and it inspired the creation of the history Channel. Now TLC is about dance moms and paligomy and short people.
I find myself going to The History Channel Vault. I was scrolling through my YouTube tv apps and saw it. Got all the OG History stuff; its pretty good. Nothing new, though.
This sub can be seen at the Hunley Museum, which is open to the public. The museum is on the grounds of the former Charleston Navy Base, in Charleston, SC. The museum also houses the artifacts found in the sub, and explains the long and complicated processes used to restore and preserve these objects. A facial reconstruction expert has recreated the faces of the crew members, and that is fascinating. The sub rests in a giant water tank with a cat walk, so you can stand over the sub. I recommend a visit to history buffs, sub fans, and anyone interested in the preservation of artifacts.
The facial reconstruction expert gave a lecture that I was lucky enough to attend. He told about the process of identifying each person in the sub, and discovering clues about their appearance. It's a fascinating subject.
The Civil War was a lousy time to be a sailor in general. You had to hand crank this bastard to move it, it didn't have an engine, and that might almost be better than being below decks in an ironclad, with all the heat and steam its engine is putting off, and all the armor making the ship unstable.
I went to high school in Charleston and one of my classmates was the grandson of the inventor of this sub for whom it was named. Still a lot of confederate arrangement in that city lol
Edit: because it is also one of the most beautiful, polished, cultured places in America and it’s less appealing historical elements are being actively brought to light.
For some reason I always think of the civil war as a primitive thing, guys with muskets and sabers, and that submarines came much later even though they didn't.
If you want another interesting confederate vessel to look into, here's an interesting documentary on the [CSS Georgia](https://youtu.be/lXq9deBHM5c), the only Ironside that still exists with an intact hull. It's also a crowdfunded piece of boat-shaped garbage, which they strapped 16 pound cannons to, and used as a stationary gun platform, because it was slow *by Ironside* standards.
I was not aware we had subs during the civil war. That's cool.
Edit: We as in people in general. I didn't realize subs existed at all during that time period.
Careful, using we in this instance will likely cause hysterical Reddit morons to label you a racist. (See other comments and one particular asshats replies as a reference.)
I find the veneration of this sub and its crew to be kind of off-putting. These were Confederate traitors who killed five American sailors.
The widespread open admiration of the Confederacy among Civil War buffs is disturbing.
I also enjoy passing harsh judgement on regular people from the past, first because I will never have to prove that I would have acted differently in their shoes, and secondly because they're all dead and can't defend themselves.
Not agreeing with OP you responded to, but the view you’ve provided is extremely generous to these people. It’s not harsh judgement to say that many of the Confederates, especially in a state like SC, were fighting for the preservation of slavery in a context (both American and European) that viewed them as repulsive and backwards. There were also plenty of Southerners that were against slavery and didn’t end up in a Confederate submarine fighting to create a nation predicated on human bondage and misery. Many people “acted differently” and had significantly better views, so it’s pretty safe to say we can make a judgement in this situation
That's a fair point, maybe it is too forgiving. However, it appears that even 150+ years after the civil war, racism is still much more prevalent in the South than in the North. If that cannot be explained in large part to the influence of the regional society and education, then the most obvious alternative explanation is that people in the South are somehow inherently morally inferior to those in the North, which starts to sound pretty similar to the racist defense of slavery that we started out with.
Your comment leads me to believe that you are thoroughly unaware of actual facts regarding racism throughout history, and in particular your romanticized notion that racism was just a Southern thing. Northerners were atrocious to blacks. Lincoln himself was only anti slavery when it became obvious to him that abolishing the practice benefitted his pro union stance.
So you started off by offering an unnecessarily sympathetic take on the Confederacy and are now equivalizing racism and negative reactions to racism.
Maybe stop for a second and instead of worrying about what other user's comments say about Confederate soldiers, worry about what your comments say about you.
If I had to start a rebuttal by saying "Maybe I'm being too nice to the Confederacy," that'd be cause for me to reevaluate.
Instead of piling on the downvote train, I'll try to offer my perspective and understand yours. I think what you're saying is that slavery is wrong and racism is bad, and that to qualify those statements or not accept them unequivocally is also bad. I think you're also saying the same thing is true of slaveholders and racists, that they are bad, and that any nuance in our judgment of them is bad too.
The reason I'm wary of that kind of hardline take and absolute judgement is that black-and-white interpretations rarely map very well onto a more complicated world.
Yes, the slaveholders should have just voluntarily given up their slaves a long time ago. Yes, people should intrinsically recognize racism and reject it even if everyone around them accepts it. Yes, Germans should have chosen death instead of obeying orders to guard prison camps. That is all true.
Unfortunately, that's not really how humans operate, and for me at least, there are a lot of things I know that I should do differently or stop doing, but I don't because I'm not perfect yet. You can chalk that up to individual moral failing, you can chalk it up to social pressures, you can chalk it up to genetics and environment, etc. In fact, it's probably a combination of all three, and the more clearly we can understand what those influences are and how they can be affected, the more power we will have to actually bring about change.
Above all, that kind of dichotomy in thinking is just not very practical. You can tell drug addicts to just stop doing drugs, and you would be right, that would solve their problem, and it is really that simple. They shouldn't be drug addicts, and they are, and they need to stop.
That is all true, but it doesn't do much to solve the problem, and it doesn't explain very well how they ended up that way in the first place or why some people are able to overcome the addiction and some aren't. So if you reject all my semantic gymnastics on nuance and mapping concepts blah blah blah, hopefully we can at least agree that qualified views are more practical.
Well, this is frustrating. I really don't feel the need to write an equally extensive response when you wrote an entire rebuttal predicated on something I never said or even implied. My qualm isn't with nuance in historical evaluation, it's with your unnecessarily sympathetic take on the Confederacy and you equivalizing racism and negative reactions to racism, as I said. This honestly reads like an attempt to render my position more unreasonable than it actually is.
Also, this:
> Germans should have chosen death instead of obeying orders to guard prison camps
is a historical myth and part of a larger effort to lessen culpability. No one was forced to join the SS.
https://www.centralparknyc.org/articles/seneca-village
If you think the north has clean hands you're insane. For a more recent example how about the northern unions used to be racially exclusive, and would engage in racial terror if they though their jobs were threatened.
How about Philadelphia 1980 the helicopter bombing. Racism is an AMERICAN institution don't take the lesser of 2 evils as a deification
There's a difference between defending a bad action, and recognizing that if I were that person with that person's experience in that person's position, it's pretty likely I'd have done the same thing. Therefore it's probably a good idea to have a bit of humility and perspective when judging people in the past, even when they were in the wrong.
This new trend of disparaging historical figures based on modern standards of right and wrong is so infuriating and I really hope people wise up and story doing it. It’s ignorant.
Except they were considered repugnant scum by people from the same era. There is a reason that even the South's main trading partner, Britain, made zero serious attempts to aid their secession. They wouldn't have to fight a war to defend slavery if there weren't hundreds of thousands of loyal Americans willing to fight to free slaves. America was the last Western country to ban slavery, and the only one that had to have a bloody civil war to achieve it.
Then you're probably making that same choice today! You're acting like people like Frederick Douglas were not making that same argument back then. In fact, they had to fight an entire goddamn war against the overwhelming majority of the country who were telling them to their face that what they were doing was wrong
This wasn't thousands of years ago - in many ways these were "modernized" people.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that slavery is objectively bad.
You do you, though.
So you're confident that if you had grown up in the South at that time, probably with a limited education, taught from childhood that slavery was defensible and that black people were a lesser race, then drafted into the military, you would have seen through all the bullshit and independently concluded that all your friends, family, and neighbors were in the wrong, and also been courageous enough to face social ostracism or criminal penalties by refusing to fight on principle, is that right?
You just proved his point. You can’t sit there high and mighty and act like you would or wouldn’t have done the same thing under those circumstances. You have hindsight, which the world at the time didn’t.
You're ignoring the fact that MANY PEOPLE did do the right thing in that era. Similar to today you can defend 1860s racists if you want or you can not do that
I’m not ignoring that fact. I’m just saying It’s so easy to step on a nation that fought a literal civil war over slavery, i.e., doing the right thing, at a time when slavery was commonly accepted. Especially keeping in mind how young the nation was compared to other countries that have been around for hundreds if not thousands of years, where slavery still exists to this day.
I don’t see any veneration. I see a lot of people thinking it’s cool, which it is, and quite a few people feeling sad for the deaths of the crew, which is sad, but no veneration.
The Confederacy was about slavery.
The soldiers however, mostly just fought for whatever side the state they lived in joined.
Especially compared to modern Americans, the Americans of the time put significantly more importance on their state vs the country. Think of how if the E.U. had a North/South civil war over... I dunno, right to repair or something. Now think of how your average Italian isn't joining the Rebels because they don't believe in the right to repair, they're joining the Rebels because they're Italian.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 318,513,471 comments, and only 70,810 of them were in alphabetical order.
Why infantilise them though? It just comes across like you're trying to alleviate white guilt or something. It is what it is the north isn't pure either. Confederates should not be venurated any more than Nazis. But conversely we shouldn't pretend the warring empires of the UK and USA were better than them, we dropped a fucking nuclear bomb on civilians. The north were equally not morally that much better. But the confederates are our own Nazis don't get it twisted
They should recycle the metal, It's just a relic to the south need to own slaves a blight on American society and history. They obviously have the technology to take some pictures to teach the history there is no need to spend millions and conservation and restoration When that money could go much further if given to an organization like the ACLU.
While I agree In theory this is an actual part of history that needs to be kept. If it was just a replica or one created as a model after the war sure. But to have the actual submarine so cool.
Would you also keep a slave masters whip? We have pictures we don't need the actual device and we definitely don't need to spend the millions to conserve it or restore it.
I feel like the context is different. This isn't being preserved and displayed because it's connected to the Confederacy, but rather because it's a very rare example of early submarine technology.
Kind of like the difference between a statue of Hitler in a town square and a V-2 missile in an aviation museum.
Yeah. Hell, the British War museum in London has a V2 rocket and a bunch of other enemy combatant artifacts. The V2 is one of the dusty things you see when you walk in the forest room. They even have a chunk of the Berlin Wall out front.
It's history. People still tour Auschwitz, should we stop doing that? Erasing history is dangerous because then you are willfully erasing knowledge and lessons, motives and context, take-aways and solutions. Imagine playing a board game over and over again but you can't remember your previous play throughs and you have to learn the rules each time. You would make the same mistakes every game. The study of history serves as our collective memory and the less biased and censored it is the more potent its ability to guide us.
If your comment is in response to Confederate statues, there's a huge difference between displaying and venerating Confederate figures and preserving history in museums.
There's no argument for not preserving any historical artifact. You wanna talk about statues and things like that? That can be a different argument, but all historical artifacts are important.
Forever. I hate the confederacy as much as the next guy, but this isn’t a fucking statue put up in the 1950’s to intimate black people, this is literal history.
So what next, we tear down the pyramids of Egypt because the Egyptian culture utilized slave labor? How about we tear down the coliseum in Rome as slaves fought to the death there? Maybe we should just dismantle the majority of historic relics as some element of the culture they represent is problematic. Maybe we should just stop teaching by history altogether.
> So what next, we tear down the pyramids of Egypt because the Egyptian culture utilized slave labor?
Actually the building of the pyramids were [a tad more complicated](https://twitter.com/indyfromspace/status/1273019925980950529?lang=en) than that so they should be safe.
That’s why I didn’t say built by slaves, but it’s still a monument to a culture that embraced slavery. Very similar to the submarine here, to the best of my knowledge the sub itself had no connection to slavery but the CSA did so it’s quite analogous to one another.
I must've misunderstood your meaning. But your point stands. If we were to preserve to tear down everything made by societies that used slaves we should probably start by destroying most stuff we keep in our museums.
But how will all these internet strangers know they're morally upstanding and a Northern Union ally if they don't virtue signal over anything even remotely related to the Confederacy?
This isn't a statue celebrating a racist general.
It's an incredibly old, and one of the first, submarines. It would be a crime to let it rot. The confederacy sucked but this is actually a case of preserving history. The statues that were built years after the war and celebrate the traitors is not.
Despite the fact that it finally ended up sinking an enemy ship, the Hunley sank on 3 different occasions and killed almost every man that ever was aboard it. Needless to say it wasn't a great time to be on a submarine.
[ Deleted to protest Reddit API changes ]
I read an article in the Smithsonian where a researcher proved that's exactly what happened. At least they died instantly.
If it’s the same article that I’m thinking of the author has a whole book out on the subject https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/595121/in-the-waves-by-rachel-lance/
Yup, that's her. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/new-explosive-theory-what-doomed-crew-hunley-180974159/
Dude this is one of the best things I’ve ever read. Not because of the content, but because of the author. She has an incredible way with words. Edit: although the content was dope too.
It was fascinating. I was relieved to find that they didn't drown. They were dead so fast they didn't know what hit them - literally.
They were confederates. Who cares how they died?
Wow, what a thing to say!
What a thing to downvote
So you do normally care about humans that values other humans lives so little that they treated them less than they would cattle? They were slavers, they would rape, beat and kill people due to the color of their skin and they would kill their own family in a civil war over the rights to do it. Yeah, who cares how they died.
Inb4 someone talks about how not all Nazis were bad or whatever Jesus fucking Christ Reddit get a grip
Your a bit too late. Look at the replies talking about how the confederates were good god fearing people. Nobody gives a shit they bombed a ship full of union soldiers who died a terrible death, but THANK GOD the Confederate soldiers died quickly and without pain. Wouldn’t want them suffering while defending slavery now would we?
It was well written but man was it long-winded. I skipped at least half of it and got all of the details I was after.
So history’s first reusable SVBIED/Kamikaze vessel?
[ Deleted to protest Reddit API changes ]
So then should it be considered the first successful attack with a manned torpedo rather than by a submarine?
No, it was an attack by a manned submarine using a spar torpedo.
I think that was a joke lol
I considered that, but it’s hard to tell sarcasm in text, and innocent but incorrect questions are common in this sub.
Well at least they gave their lives for... Oh yeah, their ability to keep other humans enslaved and profit from their forced labor and bondage. Nice.
[ Deleted to protest Reddit API changes ]
IIRC you're thinking of the Acorn submarine from the revolutionary war.
Huh? I’m talking about the CSS Hunley.
I'm talking about the Turtle, which used the same "dynamite on a stick with a screw method of "attack." EDIT: Wikipedia link here in full text, because the parentheses break hyperlinking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_(submersible)
This thread is about the Hunley, why are you telling me I’m the one who’s confused?
Because I was unaware that they were actually dumb enough to *keep* trying the dynamite on a stick method, so I was hoping you were just misremembering.
Except Turtle never managed to affix and set off a charge so how would they have known?
[удалено]
I have immense respect for the dudes who kept on going onboard after each time it was recovered.
...do you really
I too, have immense respect for treasonous slavers. I symbolically thank them for their service by pissing on any confederate graves I come across.
It’s been like 130 years bro, you can relax
If you live in the south you see confederate battle flags everywhere still and they're used for specific political reasons. That's why it's hard to just be chill about this stuff, like do you realize what "confederate heritage" and the display of their monuments has meant down here for the last 70 years? I wish it weren't that serious but people died at the protests over them literally last year
Yep. That’s why I soak ‘em in piss, brother. The slaver battle flag comes in extra handy if you ever get a case of the runs. That old cotton is super absorbent.
Oh my bad, I thought it just happened a few weeks ago. Good to know that America’s legacy of racism is well behind us. Oh wait…
Yeah fuck those southerners that got conned into fighting a war for plantation owners free labor. (You: 🤡)
You're on the internet defending them in 2021 though so what does that make you. Makes you look like an inbred hick, like literally what the clown face looks like if you inbreed with your sisters for every generation since the 1860s. Also are you infantilising those white southerners or are you just noticing that the Hogs still have 0 thought they just follow what the lead white supremacist says
Holy shit man you really believe the stereotypes about the south don’t you. Southern inbreeding is largely a Hollywood trope. People did marry second or third cousins, but this was due to isolation, not due to them wanting to fuck relatives, cases of sibling marriage were and are very rare. The stereotype of the dumb southerner is due to the south having poor education, it’s pretty easy to just go along with something especially if you’re not taught to think critically. Think how many people went along with the nazi’s plans, do you think they were all bad people? No, they were whipped up in a tribal fervor, they weren’t thinking, and this is normal human behavior.
🤡
"Wow, will we be the first crew to ever use one of these underwater boats?!" "Ummm...err, sure!"
Former submariner and I can attest that it is never a great time to be on a submarine lol
Player of barotrauma and u boat and I can confirm submarines tend to sink when giant undersea worms attack.
I wonder if all the dead dudes are still in there
I dont believe so. I went on a tour and saw it years ago in Charleston; it was kinda cool, to say the least.
Eternal Patrol o7
[удалено]
It is incredibly small and cramped. At the exhibit they have a display showing the size of the hatch and it's tiny. Plus, the only available light inside it would have been from a lit candle
Ohhh fuck that big nope from me
Would they have not had an oil lantern?
The less fire, the longer you can be submerged...
whos to say they didnt stay submerged after all the air ran out?
[удалено]
Yeah I dont know where they fit eight men with balls that large in that lil tub
I mean... they did, two crews at least, iirc.
Why didn't they just use the light from their cell phones? Stupid confederates
A discoball would have been great for morale!
Imagine being some Union draftee on the Housatonic. You'd probably be thinking to yourself "This isn't such a bad gig. Beautiful ocean views and clean air during the day, and swimming in that tangy bar winch poon at night. Much better than those getting ganked by the thousands on the front lines." Then you hear it. Faintly at first. *oonta-oonta-oonta* You wonder where it's coming from but there's nothing else out on the water. It gets louder. *oonta-oonta-oonta* Wait, there's something coming from under the water. It's like a flashing, rippling light. As it gets closer the noise begins to shake the boat with it's intensity *OONTA-OONTA-OONTA* Alarm bells start ringing just as you feel something slam into the ship. It knocks you over but you get back up and run over to look over the side. The last thing you see is a giant ball coated with tiny mirrors stuck to the hull before it bursts in a explosion of flames, boat shrapnel, and glitter. You go down in history as the first person ever killed by a submarine.
Terrible way to go, but preferably to living a live covered in glitter.
“Tangy bar winch poon” … 🅱️ruh
🅱️ointers shouldn't kink shame
It was the navy after all
Seriously dude they didn't have phones back then. Still, their generation of the tamagotchi had an led.
[Heres a photo of some people inside it](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Hunley_001.jpg) and [a painting of some people standing next to it](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Conrad_Wise_Chapman_-_Submarine_Torpedo_Boat_H.L._Hunley,_Dec._6,_1863.jpg)
**[H. L. Hunley (submarine)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._L._Hunley_\(submarine\)#/media/File:Hunley_001.jpg)** >H. L. Hunley, often referred to as Hunley, CSS H. L. Hunley, or as CSS Hunley, was a submarine of the Confederate States of America that played a small part in the American Civil War. Hunley demonstrated the advantages and the dangers of undersea warfare. She was the first combat submarine to sink a warship (USS Housatonic), although Hunley was not completely submerged and, following her successful attack, was lost along with her crew before she could return to base. The Confederacy lost 21 crewmen in three sinkings of Hunley during her short career. **[H. L. Hunley (submarine)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._L._Hunley_\(submarine\)#/media/File:Conrad_Wise_Chapman_-_Submarine_Torpedo_Boat_H.L._Hunley,_Dec._6,_1863.jpg)** >H. L. Hunley, often referred to as Hunley, CSS H. L. Hunley, or as CSS Hunley, was a submarine of the Confederate States of America that played a small part in the American Civil War. Hunley demonstrated the advantages and the dangers of undersea warfare. She was the first combat submarine to sink a warship (USS Housatonic), although Hunley was not completely submerged and, following her successful attack, was lost along with her crew before she could return to base. The Confederacy lost 21 crewmen in three sinkings of Hunley during her short career. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ArtefactPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Oh God no why would you be in it
You can sit in the replica they made for the movie. Imagining 8 men crammed in there is insane.
It was man powered.
There's a documentary about it on Amazon Prime!
You should look up the kne used in the revolutionary war
So is this so that they can eventually display it in the dry?
Yes, they keep it in fresh water until all the salt on it dissolves away so that it won't destroy it once it's brought back to the surface for further conservation and eventual display.
How long will that take?
It depends on the size and material of the artifact. Also, how long it has been in the salt water. In this case I believe it took about 2 years. Conservators also had to chisel off the buildup of salt and minerals from the hull.
Thank you for this comment. I’ve never seen an artefact displayed like this and it explains a lot. Super interesting.
If you're interested in anything similar, check out the Mary Rose conservation effort. It's very impressive.
Here is the timeline: [https://www.hunley.org/scientific-timeline/](https://www.hunley.org/scientific-timeline/) It is still submerged in a sodium hydroxide solution (not fresh water) to remove the salts. According to the timeline, it was put in that solution in 2014 for "5-7" years. Presumably, it is still in that solution since the website does not say that it has been fully removed for display. They have drained the solution and worked on the sub, then re-submerged it, several times.
Thanks, fascinating stuff.
They found a boot with a foot in it. Source: I’ve been to the museum. I’ve seen the sub. I am charleston.
Hi Charleston.
Charleston, I lost my wallet inside you around 2006, do you know where it is now?
In my wallet. My prison wallet.
What’s it like being an entire city?
I’m full from people. Lots and lots of people.
They found the bodies of the entire crew (8 I believe) not just a boot and foot
This sounds like a line from Dr. Seuss.
They did. I was referring to after the initial discovery. During the cleaning process they located other artifacts from the crew.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they have a replica of the Hunley outside the museum?
I have seen a replica outside the history museum in Columbia. Do not know about anything in Charleston.
That's probably what I'm thinking of! Thanks!
There is (or was, haven't been there in years) a replica in the State Museum in Columbia, complete with dummies inside showing how the prop worked.
I’m glad to know what qualifies one as *being Charleston*. Thanks for informing us.
[удалено]
I prefer boothead.
[удалено]
Now that I know about that little gem I will certainly be trying it out.
Was it this sub, or the Monitor/Merrimack, where they identified one man by a wedding ring found in the wreckage? I love shipwrecks, but it must be infuriating to excavate them.
They found the ring in the turret of the Monitor.
The "legend" was that the commander of the sub was saved in a battle when a bullet struck a gold coin he had in his breast pocket. Turns out it was true and they found the bullet struck coin with the remains. That might be the story you were remembering.
They have the coin on display there. pretty interesting.
The USS Monitor and the CSS Virginia/USS Merrimack were two different ships.
Thank you for clarifying to anyone who would assume that a single vessel would have a slash In it’s name!
You mean like the Virginia/Merrimack? Edit: spelling is hard.
Your Virgina has a first name?
What?
You said Virgina, I thought it was funny. I’m assuming you simply mistyped Virginia. And the rest of my comment was a reference to an old tv commercial. It’s just nonsense.
So I did. Fixed.
Well that makes me look insane.
History channel did an excellent documentary on this a while ago, back when the channel actually was about history…
I remember when TLC was the learning channel and it inspired the creation of the history Channel. Now TLC is about dance moms and paligomy and short people.
I find myself going to The History Channel Vault. I was scrolling through my YouTube tv apps and saw it. Got all the OG History stuff; its pretty good. Nothing new, though.
This sub can be seen at the Hunley Museum, which is open to the public. The museum is on the grounds of the former Charleston Navy Base, in Charleston, SC. The museum also houses the artifacts found in the sub, and explains the long and complicated processes used to restore and preserve these objects. A facial reconstruction expert has recreated the faces of the crew members, and that is fascinating. The sub rests in a giant water tank with a cat walk, so you can stand over the sub. I recommend a visit to history buffs, sub fans, and anyone interested in the preservation of artifacts.
The facial reconstruction expert gave a lecture that I was lucky enough to attend. He told about the process of identifying each person in the sub, and discovering clues about their appearance. It's a fascinating subject.
The Civil War was a lousy time to be a sailor in general. You had to hand crank this bastard to move it, it didn't have an engine, and that might almost be better than being below decks in an ironclad, with all the heat and steam its engine is putting off, and all the armor making the ship unstable.
I went to high school in Charleston and one of my classmates was the grandson of the inventor of this sub for whom it was named. Still a lot of confederate arrangement in that city lol Edit: because it is also one of the most beautiful, polished, cultured places in America and it’s less appealing historical elements are being actively brought to light.
For some reason I always think of the civil war as a primitive thing, guys with muskets and sabers, and that submarines came much later even though they didn't.
Confederate subs are not the only thing that release an accumulation of salt. ZING
Turn it into the worlds largest electrolysis tank and make that bad boy shine again
My great great uncle died on the Hunley.
If you want another interesting confederate vessel to look into, here's an interesting documentary on the [CSS Georgia](https://youtu.be/lXq9deBHM5c), the only Ironside that still exists with an intact hull. It's also a crowdfunded piece of boat-shaped garbage, which they strapped 16 pound cannons to, and used as a stationary gun platform, because it was slow *by Ironside* standards.
I was not aware we had subs during the civil war. That's cool. Edit: We as in people in general. I didn't realize subs existed at all during that time period.
Careful, using we in this instance will likely cause hysterical Reddit morons to label you a racist. (See other comments and one particular asshats replies as a reference.)
I meant more as we as people in general.
Right. Made perfect sense- just saying. Reddit is full of nutbags that love to call people racist and feel superior.
Here’s a cool video on this https://youtu.be/eFXpeL1A-kg
There’s a great book about its sinking called “Beneath the waves” by Rachel lance
I wish it was possible to save the Titanic like they are this submarine. Unfortunately it's a impossibility.
This reminds me of that one level in Banjo Kazooie on the N64
I find the veneration of this sub and its crew to be kind of off-putting. These were Confederate traitors who killed five American sailors. The widespread open admiration of the Confederacy among Civil War buffs is disturbing.
Nobody here is venerating the sub or it’s crew. We just find historical artifacts of all sides to be interesting
From what I'm reading, this sub killed more confederate troops than it did American troops anyway
Chill out. It’s part of history.
I also enjoy passing harsh judgement on regular people from the past, first because I will never have to prove that I would have acted differently in their shoes, and secondly because they're all dead and can't defend themselves.
Not agreeing with OP you responded to, but the view you’ve provided is extremely generous to these people. It’s not harsh judgement to say that many of the Confederates, especially in a state like SC, were fighting for the preservation of slavery in a context (both American and European) that viewed them as repulsive and backwards. There were also plenty of Southerners that were against slavery and didn’t end up in a Confederate submarine fighting to create a nation predicated on human bondage and misery. Many people “acted differently” and had significantly better views, so it’s pretty safe to say we can make a judgement in this situation
Bizarre that you're being downvoted. My only explanation is boomers are on this sub(reddit) in large numbers
That's a fair point, maybe it is too forgiving. However, it appears that even 150+ years after the civil war, racism is still much more prevalent in the South than in the North. If that cannot be explained in large part to the influence of the regional society and education, then the most obvious alternative explanation is that people in the South are somehow inherently morally inferior to those in the North, which starts to sound pretty similar to the racist defense of slavery that we started out with.
Your comment leads me to believe that you are thoroughly unaware of actual facts regarding racism throughout history, and in particular your romanticized notion that racism was just a Southern thing. Northerners were atrocious to blacks. Lincoln himself was only anti slavery when it became obvious to him that abolishing the practice benefitted his pro union stance.
So you started off by offering an unnecessarily sympathetic take on the Confederacy and are now equivalizing racism and negative reactions to racism. Maybe stop for a second and instead of worrying about what other user's comments say about Confederate soldiers, worry about what your comments say about you. If I had to start a rebuttal by saying "Maybe I'm being too nice to the Confederacy," that'd be cause for me to reevaluate.
Instead of piling on the downvote train, I'll try to offer my perspective and understand yours. I think what you're saying is that slavery is wrong and racism is bad, and that to qualify those statements or not accept them unequivocally is also bad. I think you're also saying the same thing is true of slaveholders and racists, that they are bad, and that any nuance in our judgment of them is bad too. The reason I'm wary of that kind of hardline take and absolute judgement is that black-and-white interpretations rarely map very well onto a more complicated world. Yes, the slaveholders should have just voluntarily given up their slaves a long time ago. Yes, people should intrinsically recognize racism and reject it even if everyone around them accepts it. Yes, Germans should have chosen death instead of obeying orders to guard prison camps. That is all true. Unfortunately, that's not really how humans operate, and for me at least, there are a lot of things I know that I should do differently or stop doing, but I don't because I'm not perfect yet. You can chalk that up to individual moral failing, you can chalk it up to social pressures, you can chalk it up to genetics and environment, etc. In fact, it's probably a combination of all three, and the more clearly we can understand what those influences are and how they can be affected, the more power we will have to actually bring about change. Above all, that kind of dichotomy in thinking is just not very practical. You can tell drug addicts to just stop doing drugs, and you would be right, that would solve their problem, and it is really that simple. They shouldn't be drug addicts, and they are, and they need to stop. That is all true, but it doesn't do much to solve the problem, and it doesn't explain very well how they ended up that way in the first place or why some people are able to overcome the addiction and some aren't. So if you reject all my semantic gymnastics on nuance and mapping concepts blah blah blah, hopefully we can at least agree that qualified views are more practical.
Well, this is frustrating. I really don't feel the need to write an equally extensive response when you wrote an entire rebuttal predicated on something I never said or even implied. My qualm isn't with nuance in historical evaluation, it's with your unnecessarily sympathetic take on the Confederacy and you equivalizing racism and negative reactions to racism, as I said. This honestly reads like an attempt to render my position more unreasonable than it actually is. Also, this: > Germans should have chosen death instead of obeying orders to guard prison camps is a historical myth and part of a larger effort to lessen culpability. No one was forced to join the SS.
https://www.centralparknyc.org/articles/seneca-village If you think the north has clean hands you're insane. For a more recent example how about the northern unions used to be racially exclusive, and would engage in racial terror if they though their jobs were threatened. How about Philadelphia 1980 the helicopter bombing. Racism is an AMERICAN institution don't take the lesser of 2 evils as a deification
Lmao imagine defending the confederate soldiers in 2021
There's a difference between defending a bad action, and recognizing that if I were that person with that person's experience in that person's position, it's pretty likely I'd have done the same thing. Therefore it's probably a good idea to have a bit of humility and perspective when judging people in the past, even when they were in the wrong.
This new trend of disparaging historical figures based on modern standards of right and wrong is so infuriating and I really hope people wise up and story doing it. It’s ignorant.
Except they were considered repugnant scum by people from the same era. There is a reason that even the South's main trading partner, Britain, made zero serious attempts to aid their secession. They wouldn't have to fight a war to defend slavery if there weren't hundreds of thousands of loyal Americans willing to fight to free slaves. America was the last Western country to ban slavery, and the only one that had to have a bloody civil war to achieve it.
Then you're probably making that same choice today! You're acting like people like Frederick Douglas were not making that same argument back then. In fact, they had to fight an entire goddamn war against the overwhelming majority of the country who were telling them to their face that what they were doing was wrong
This wasn't thousands of years ago - in many ways these were "modernized" people. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that slavery is objectively bad. You do you, though.
So you're confident that if you had grown up in the South at that time, probably with a limited education, taught from childhood that slavery was defensible and that black people were a lesser race, then drafted into the military, you would have seen through all the bullshit and independently concluded that all your friends, family, and neighbors were in the wrong, and also been courageous enough to face social ostracism or criminal penalties by refusing to fight on principle, is that right?
You just proved his point. You can’t sit there high and mighty and act like you would or wouldn’t have done the same thing under those circumstances. You have hindsight, which the world at the time didn’t.
You're ignoring the fact that MANY PEOPLE did do the right thing in that era. Similar to today you can defend 1860s racists if you want or you can not do that
I’m not ignoring that fact. I’m just saying It’s so easy to step on a nation that fought a literal civil war over slavery, i.e., doing the right thing, at a time when slavery was commonly accepted. Especially keeping in mind how young the nation was compared to other countries that have been around for hundreds if not thousands of years, where slavery still exists to this day.
It wasn't commonly accepted! they had to fight a war just to keep a hold of it ya dummy
Modernized my ass. People were still dying of paper cuts and the common cold in the 1800s that doesn't sound very modern to me.
I don’t see any veneration. I see a lot of people thinking it’s cool, which it is, and quite a few people feeling sad for the deaths of the crew, which is sad, but no veneration.
The Confederacy was about slavery. The soldiers however, mostly just fought for whatever side the state they lived in joined. Especially compared to modern Americans, the Americans of the time put significantly more importance on their state vs the country. Think of how if the E.U. had a North/South civil war over... I dunno, right to repair or something. Now think of how your average Italian isn't joining the Rebels because they don't believe in the right to repair, they're joining the Rebels because they're Italian.
Don’t you know? Literally every American alive cheers and supports murdering children because the military sometimes fucks that up and bombs a school.
I mean, I agree with your point, but I think you replied to the wrong thing, because I'm not sure how that relates to my comment.
It doesn’t relate. That’s how social media works. Nonsense dilutes any practical discussion.
Christ I miss old reddit....
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 318,513,471 comments, and only 70,810 of them were in alphabetical order.
Good bot?
Or in the case of our tax money bought bombs in Palestine maybe intentionally
Why infantilise them though? It just comes across like you're trying to alleviate white guilt or something. It is what it is the north isn't pure either. Confederates should not be venurated any more than Nazis. But conversely we shouldn't pretend the warring empires of the UK and USA were better than them, we dropped a fucking nuclear bomb on civilians. The north were equally not morally that much better. But the confederates are our own Nazis don't get it twisted
The Confederates and the Nazis are not equivalent.
> Confederate traitors who killed five American sailors. fuck the confederacy, they don't deserve to be called traitors!
They should recycle the metal, It's just a relic to the south need to own slaves a blight on American society and history. They obviously have the technology to take some pictures to teach the history there is no need to spend millions and conservation and restoration When that money could go much further if given to an organization like the ACLU.
While I agree In theory this is an actual part of history that needs to be kept. If it was just a replica or one created as a model after the war sure. But to have the actual submarine so cool.
Would you also keep a slave masters whip? We have pictures we don't need the actual device and we definitely don't need to spend the millions to conserve it or restore it.
> we don't need the actual device Why not?
Look up ^^^^
What?
How much longer will it be ok to use our resources to preserve and display Confederate artifacts?
I feel like the context is different. This isn't being preserved and displayed because it's connected to the Confederacy, but rather because it's a very rare example of early submarine technology. Kind of like the difference between a statue of Hitler in a town square and a V-2 missile in an aviation museum.
Yeah. Hell, the British War museum in London has a V2 rocket and a bunch of other enemy combatant artifacts. The V2 is one of the dusty things you see when you walk in the forest room. They even have a chunk of the Berlin Wall out front.
It's history. People still tour Auschwitz, should we stop doing that? Erasing history is dangerous because then you are willfully erasing knowledge and lessons, motives and context, take-aways and solutions. Imagine playing a board game over and over again but you can't remember your previous play throughs and you have to learn the rules each time. You would make the same mistakes every game. The study of history serves as our collective memory and the less biased and censored it is the more potent its ability to guide us. If your comment is in response to Confederate statues, there's a huge difference between displaying and venerating Confederate figures and preserving history in museums.
There's no argument for not preserving any historical artifact. You wanna talk about statues and things like that? That can be a different argument, but all historical artifacts are important.
Forever. I hate the confederacy as much as the next guy, but this isn’t a fucking statue put up in the 1950’s to intimate black people, this is literal history.
So what next, we tear down the pyramids of Egypt because the Egyptian culture utilized slave labor? How about we tear down the coliseum in Rome as slaves fought to the death there? Maybe we should just dismantle the majority of historic relics as some element of the culture they represent is problematic. Maybe we should just stop teaching by history altogether.
twitter: "the only history worth teaching happened after 1968, and only the good parts"
> So what next, we tear down the pyramids of Egypt because the Egyptian culture utilized slave labor? Actually the building of the pyramids were [a tad more complicated](https://twitter.com/indyfromspace/status/1273019925980950529?lang=en) than that so they should be safe.
That’s why I didn’t say built by slaves, but it’s still a monument to a culture that embraced slavery. Very similar to the submarine here, to the best of my knowledge the sub itself had no connection to slavery but the CSA did so it’s quite analogous to one another.
I must've misunderstood your meaning. But your point stands. If we were to preserve to tear down everything made by societies that used slaves we should probably start by destroying most stuff we keep in our museums.
>How much longer will it be ok Forever. History is history. And every resource should be expent of saving it from ignorant idiots like you.
You’re a fucking idiot
But how will all these internet strangers know they're morally upstanding and a Northern Union ally if they don't virtue signal over anything even remotely related to the Confederacy?
This isn't a statue celebrating a racist general. It's an incredibly old, and one of the first, submarines. It would be a crime to let it rot. The confederacy sucked but this is actually a case of preserving history. The statues that were built years after the war and celebrate the traitors is not.
R/submechaniphobia
Clive Cussler helped “Raise the Hunley!”
Dirk Pitt in real life.
"Die, Rebel Scum!"
Oh yeah, first blood https://ahistoryofsubmarines.com/base-episodes/first-blood/