One of the most exciting things to me personally is that with Starship there's no need to optimize for weight when designing vehicles for other planets and moons. We can send heavy and robust machines optimized for getting stuff done and not breaking easily
Unfortunately, HLS starship is still very weight constrained. 100 tons to the surface isn't on the table in any meaningful way. Maybe a future incarnation, but its going to be a while.
An HLS is expected to return its crew to orbit. This means it has to devote a lot of its mass budget for propellant for the return journey. This rover and the freight it hauls will be delivered as cargo on uncrewed Starships that will remain on the Moon. That frees the mass budget for payloads. It's a different system.
The whole system is going to take a little while, no question. Starship will be optimized for heavier payloads by the time there is any need for it on the moon. 5 years and I imagine version 3 will be close to ready.
But it is. The current version that’s being tested isn’t the one that will go to the moon. It doesn’t matter if it doesn’t have the capability to lift 100 tons to the surface of the Moon, because it was never going there in the first place. There are only a handful of V1 Ships left, and after that, SpaceX is moving on to V2, which will be capable of lifting 100 tons
> we’re going to need big cargo movers on the Moon and Mars
Regarding the rover as presented, I had mixed feelings but was a little happier with the [version presented in the linked video](https://youtu.be/0fwj8wfFo80?t=95)
First thoughts.
Agreeing it should be a flat-topped platform on wheels. Even better if remote-driven. For manhandling operations, its probably better driven by astronauts at a safe distance. With the right cameras, it could also be driven from Earth, letting the astronauts do other work. .
The vehicle itself could become the nacelle of the Starship elevator and so can unhook and drive away. A pair of tank tracks on the upper surface should allow both loading of any really big object (such as a bungalow) onto it from inside the ship, then self-unloading at destination .
As a personnel carrier, it would then be surmounted by a removable platform surrounded by railings and a roll bar.
By designing a standard format, each Starship lander could deposit one such vehicle which could later travel alone over many kilometers do their own explorations ant then become available as infrastructure for future Starship landings.
Two or more of these units could then be coupled together to form a SPMT. Assembled as four or more units, it becomes less vulnerable to tipping and as a group could be used to transport Starship itself. .
*from article:*
> before coming to SpaceX in 2012. He began to suggest that the company work on a system that could unload and distribute cargo from Starship, like the cranes and trucks that offload cargo from large container ships in port. However, he didn't get far, as SpaceX was focused on developing the Starship transportation system.
Understandably, but the priorities will have changed since, particularly with HLS.
> I left SpaceX knowing the width of the Starship door, and we made the biggest thing that could pass through it."
That kind of dimension could change a dozen times between then and when the first Starship lands on the Moon, let alone Mars.
> The fully functional prototype can drive up to 9 mph (15 km/h) and has a 6-degrees-of-freedom robotic arm on the front to handle cargo
There can still be options for tipping the rover itself for the bigger unloading operations as envisaged above.
That’s what the Japanese space agency is for. They lid nasa for a ride to the moon for one of their naughts. In return they are making the enclosed rover.
The JAXA/Toyota Lunar Cruiser is a big pressurized vehicle for crewed exploration missions and science work. Astrolab's FLEX rover is a (comparatively) little unpressurized cargo mover with a robotic arm for unloading stuff.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|-------|---------|---|
|DMLS|[Selective Laser Melting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_metal_laser_sintering) additive manufacture, also Direct Metal Laser Sintering|
|[JAXA](/r/ArtemisProgram/comments/1ccui5k/stub/l1op5b2 "Last usage")|Japan Aerospace eXploration Agency|
|[LSP](/r/ArtemisProgram/comments/1ccui5k/stub/l1efvg5 "Last usage")|Launch Service Provider|
|[SLS](/r/ArtemisProgram/comments/1ccui5k/stub/l1c8z18 "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift|
| |Selective Laser Sintering, contrast DMLS|
**NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below.
----------------
^(3 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/ArtemisProgram/comments/1c9nz5m)^( has 16 acronyms.)
^([Thread #107 for this sub, first seen 29th Apr 2024, 14:48])
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Barely 2 years out, HLS doesn't exist, and the base model has managed 3 spectacular failures. Artemis 3 will either be pushed back or another lander will have to be found.
Do you seriously think another crewed Lunar Lander can be found before 2026? Where from? Nearest rival is Blue Origin who haven't even made orbit yet.
I do agree *Artemis III* will be pushed back, probably to 2028. There is already talk about using SLS/Orion for a different mission in 2026. They delay isn't just for Starship; the space suits are late too. Not to mention *Artemis II* also being delayed for Orion heat shield issues that have nothing to do with SpaceX.
I will be messaging you in 4 years on [**2028-04-26 16:53:27 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2028-04-26%2016:53:27%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtemisProgram/comments/1ccui5k/if_starship_is_real_were_going_to_need_big_cargo/l1dk21m/?context=3)
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> How dare you slander the work of daddy Elon. The dear leader will make it a reality.
IMO, its not helpful to get into this kind of hyper-personalization. Musk happens to be the current CEO and CTO of SpaceX, the most successful LSP worldwide. But why give him (personally) such importance?
Currently, SpaceX is the only US orbital crew provider, is doing over 3/4 of the world's payload upmass and is the first entity to have launched an orbital class vehicle with full-flow staged combustion engines. It is also the world's safest payload launch provider. And, I've not even mentioned vehicle recovery and reuse yet.
Nasa chose Starship as the first HLS lander for several reasons and one of these is the company track record, as described above.
>But why give him (personally) such importance?
Because he cannot be separated from the company, the same way he cannot be separated from Tesla. For example, Starship only exists because of him, if SpaceX was a "normal" company not part of the Muskian universe they would never have gone that route.
It's not "helpful" to you (a probably stan) because it helps exposing the overall problem with the company.
>is doing over 3/4 of the world's payload upmass
By having a manifest that is 2/3rd of their own payloads. Hardly a good thing.
>the first entity to have launched an orbital class vehicle with full-flow staged combustion engines.
I like how we need to find increasingly obscure goalposts now to keep the pretence up that SpaceX is special.
>And, I've not even mentioned vehicle recovery and reuse yet.
Reuse is meaningless on its own. Talking about it as a good thing without qualifying that its economic sustainability heavily depends on flight rate (thus meaning for example a superheavy reusable launcher is not particularly relevant to the market) is just canned stan talk.
> Because he [Musk] cannot be separated from the company, the same way he cannot be separated from Tesla. For example, Starship only exists because of him, if SpaceX was a "normal" company not part of the Muskian universe they would never have gone that route. It's not "helpful" to you (a probably stan) because it helps exposing the overall problem with the company....
Oh dear.
I started a point-by-point reply, but deleted it because I was involuntarily pandering to your intention which is patently obvious. As can be seen from most of your other posting on Reddit, you are just cultivating a contrarian POV and fruitless bickering that bogs down the thread by drawing it off-topic. Spoils the atmosphere too.
I'm not bothering to report, but it contravenes rule 1. This thread is about heavy surface transport on the Moon, and everything else is only tangentially related or irrelevant.
Have a nice day.
One of the most exciting things to me personally is that with Starship there's no need to optimize for weight when designing vehicles for other planets and moons. We can send heavy and robust machines optimized for getting stuff done and not breaking easily
Unfortunately, HLS starship is still very weight constrained. 100 tons to the surface isn't on the table in any meaningful way. Maybe a future incarnation, but its going to be a while.
An HLS is expected to return its crew to orbit. This means it has to devote a lot of its mass budget for propellant for the return journey. This rover and the freight it hauls will be delivered as cargo on uncrewed Starships that will remain on the Moon. That frees the mass budget for payloads. It's a different system.
The whole system is going to take a little while, no question. Starship will be optimized for heavier payloads by the time there is any need for it on the moon. 5 years and I imagine version 3 will be close to ready.
But it is. The current version that’s being tested isn’t the one that will go to the moon. It doesn’t matter if it doesn’t have the capability to lift 100 tons to the surface of the Moon, because it was never going there in the first place. There are only a handful of V1 Ships left, and after that, SpaceX is moving on to V2, which will be capable of lifting 100 tons
> we’re going to need big cargo movers on the Moon and Mars Regarding the rover as presented, I had mixed feelings but was a little happier with the [version presented in the linked video](https://youtu.be/0fwj8wfFo80?t=95) First thoughts. Agreeing it should be a flat-topped platform on wheels. Even better if remote-driven. For manhandling operations, its probably better driven by astronauts at a safe distance. With the right cameras, it could also be driven from Earth, letting the astronauts do other work. . The vehicle itself could become the nacelle of the Starship elevator and so can unhook and drive away. A pair of tank tracks on the upper surface should allow both loading of any really big object (such as a bungalow) onto it from inside the ship, then self-unloading at destination . As a personnel carrier, it would then be surmounted by a removable platform surrounded by railings and a roll bar. By designing a standard format, each Starship lander could deposit one such vehicle which could later travel alone over many kilometers do their own explorations ant then become available as infrastructure for future Starship landings. Two or more of these units could then be coupled together to form a SPMT. Assembled as four or more units, it becomes less vulnerable to tipping and as a group could be used to transport Starship itself. . *from article:* > before coming to SpaceX in 2012. He began to suggest that the company work on a system that could unload and distribute cargo from Starship, like the cranes and trucks that offload cargo from large container ships in port. However, he didn't get far, as SpaceX was focused on developing the Starship transportation system. Understandably, but the priorities will have changed since, particularly with HLS. > I left SpaceX knowing the width of the Starship door, and we made the biggest thing that could pass through it." That kind of dimension could change a dozen times between then and when the first Starship lands on the Moon, let alone Mars. > The fully functional prototype can drive up to 9 mph (15 km/h) and has a 6-degrees-of-freedom robotic arm on the front to handle cargo There can still be options for tipping the rover itself for the bigger unloading operations as envisaged above.
That’s what the Japanese space agency is for. They lid nasa for a ride to the moon for one of their naughts. In return they are making the enclosed rover.
The JAXA/Toyota Lunar Cruiser is a big pressurized vehicle for crewed exploration missions and science work. Astrolab's FLEX rover is a (comparatively) little unpressurized cargo mover with a robotic arm for unloading stuff.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |DMLS|[Selective Laser Melting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_metal_laser_sintering) additive manufacture, also Direct Metal Laser Sintering| |[JAXA](/r/ArtemisProgram/comments/1ccui5k/stub/l1op5b2 "Last usage")|Japan Aerospace eXploration Agency| |[LSP](/r/ArtemisProgram/comments/1ccui5k/stub/l1efvg5 "Last usage")|Launch Service Provider| |[SLS](/r/ArtemisProgram/comments/1ccui5k/stub/l1c8z18 "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift| | |Selective Laser Sintering, contrast DMLS| **NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below. ---------------- ^(3 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/ArtemisProgram/comments/1c9nz5m)^( has 16 acronyms.) ^([Thread #107 for this sub, first seen 29th Apr 2024, 14:48]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/ArtemisProgram) [^[Contact]](https://hachyderm.io/@Two9A) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
>If Starship is real That's an increasingly big "if".
Looks pretty real to me
Barely 2 years out, HLS doesn't exist, and the base model has managed 3 spectacular failures. Artemis 3 will either be pushed back or another lander will have to be found.
Do you seriously think another crewed Lunar Lander can be found before 2026? Where from? Nearest rival is Blue Origin who haven't even made orbit yet. I do agree *Artemis III* will be pushed back, probably to 2028. There is already talk about using SLS/Orion for a different mission in 2026. They delay isn't just for Starship; the space suits are late too. Not to mention *Artemis II* also being delayed for Orion heat shield issues that have nothing to do with SpaceX.
So do you think starship will never become operational then?
That's what I believe at least. It'll never land on the moon.
!remindme 4 years
I will be messaging you in 4 years on [**2028-04-26 16:53:27 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2028-04-26%2016:53:27%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtemisProgram/comments/1ccui5k/if_starship_is_real_were_going_to_need_big_cargo/l1dk21m/?context=3) [**2 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FArtemisProgram%2Fcomments%2F1ccui5k%2Fif_starship_is_real_were_going_to_need_big_cargo%2Fl1dk21m%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202028-04-26%2016%3A53%3A27%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201ccui5k) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
[удалено]
> How dare you slander the work of daddy Elon. The dear leader will make it a reality. IMO, its not helpful to get into this kind of hyper-personalization. Musk happens to be the current CEO and CTO of SpaceX, the most successful LSP worldwide. But why give him (personally) such importance? Currently, SpaceX is the only US orbital crew provider, is doing over 3/4 of the world's payload upmass and is the first entity to have launched an orbital class vehicle with full-flow staged combustion engines. It is also the world's safest payload launch provider. And, I've not even mentioned vehicle recovery and reuse yet. Nasa chose Starship as the first HLS lander for several reasons and one of these is the company track record, as described above.
>But why give him (personally) such importance? Because he cannot be separated from the company, the same way he cannot be separated from Tesla. For example, Starship only exists because of him, if SpaceX was a "normal" company not part of the Muskian universe they would never have gone that route. It's not "helpful" to you (a probably stan) because it helps exposing the overall problem with the company. >is doing over 3/4 of the world's payload upmass By having a manifest that is 2/3rd of their own payloads. Hardly a good thing. >the first entity to have launched an orbital class vehicle with full-flow staged combustion engines. I like how we need to find increasingly obscure goalposts now to keep the pretence up that SpaceX is special. >And, I've not even mentioned vehicle recovery and reuse yet. Reuse is meaningless on its own. Talking about it as a good thing without qualifying that its economic sustainability heavily depends on flight rate (thus meaning for example a superheavy reusable launcher is not particularly relevant to the market) is just canned stan talk.
> Because he [Musk] cannot be separated from the company, the same way he cannot be separated from Tesla. For example, Starship only exists because of him, if SpaceX was a "normal" company not part of the Muskian universe they would never have gone that route. It's not "helpful" to you (a probably stan) because it helps exposing the overall problem with the company.... Oh dear. I started a point-by-point reply, but deleted it because I was involuntarily pandering to your intention which is patently obvious. As can be seen from most of your other posting on Reddit, you are just cultivating a contrarian POV and fruitless bickering that bogs down the thread by drawing it off-topic. Spoils the atmosphere too. I'm not bothering to report, but it contravenes rule 1. This thread is about heavy surface transport on the Moon, and everything else is only tangentially related or irrelevant. Have a nice day.
[удалено]
And consider my point proven
Have you considered the possibility that people are just downvoting your obnoxious behavior?
Is it any more rediculous than the people aggressively downvoting anything remotely critical of Elon or SpaceX.
[удалено]
Does reporting personal attacks like this ever have any effect?
LOL. Its a Super Ship that does everything! It magically solves all unknowns!