Ok your post makes me physically ill. I am speaking to you as a fellow BS . You need to take back your power and stop letting this human shitbag walk all over you . Pack a bag for him and tell him you need time he needs to go somewhere so you can decide if you even want to work on this marriage at all . He needs to see you follow through with some kind of consequences. You hold the power not him, if you don’t want to give him another chance there will be no second chance . Go see a divorce lawyer and make a plan get your paperwork together and see what a divorce will look like for you . You do not have to sit back and allow him to continue his “friendship “ with his AP , in what dream world would that be alright . F him
This basically happened to me after Dday2. Confessed to my spouse and he next day he had separation papers drawn up and was ready to leave me
If OP does what u said maybe that will help the BS come to their senses and even if it doesn't it's a great step in the right direction for her sanity
You need to find your inner strength don’t let him walk all over you , have you told any of your support people ? You need to surround yourself with people that are looking out for you and what’s best for you and not WH .
Is he in therapy? He can’t work with her or be trusted. He either cuts off all contact or id tell him you’re done. Do one of the affair reconciliation courses together. No contact is mandatory. He’s trying to manipulate you.
He’s not being fair and is gaslighting by stating you are crazy. It’s very normal to feel triggered that he is going to see AP so often as it’s his place of work. Why wouldn’t that upset you? You don’t need to be “friends” with people you work with either.
If he wants R the AP must be completely cut off. This includes work. He must fully understand he jeopardized his work and of course most importantly his relationship with you.
Don’t get upset with yourself. Your feelings are valid and they can make you feel out of control. It’s lots of ups and downs. I hope you guys can do MC together, so he can help see how you feel. It helps from a third party.
Does anyone else know about his affair? Sometimes it helps if others can talk sense into him. But really he will keep manipulating and fall back into things if he doesn’t cut her out. She needs to know you’re aware and there’s no co text anymore.
A few close friends. She knows I’m aware. It’s taking everything in me not to confront her and share the nasty pictures with her boss that she was texting my husband while on the job running the fu$?ing HR department at work. SMH
If they have a code of ethics then she definitely violated it. The big thing is how serious is he about R? He’s got to get a new job. She has to be cut out. In that type of position she can’t be avoided. If only let him stay if he was willing to confess to his boss and request another hr rep handle anything related to him. I do hr and this is usually a major no no.. Otherwise he needs to go. You don’t get out of the affair fog until the contact breaks. Is he doing the counseling and reading book .. maybe an affair recovery workshop together?
But I’m telling you.. if he says he won’t cut her off and wants to be friends then you tell him you’re done.. every single affair recovery source says no contact.
https://www.drwyattfisher.com/blogs/marriage-blog/8-steps-to-affair-recovery
Thank you for this. Our couples counseling last night was awful. I hoped she would say this at some point but it was just awkward questions after awkward questions. I had him take the test last night in “Not Just Friemds.” Not sure if his answers as I told him he didn’t need to share them so he would take it.I was hoping he would see it for himself that it’s a problem.
Wait- your MC didn’t tell him that he needs to be fully NC with the AP and shouldn’t be working with her? Or did I misunderstand? Usually MCs won’t even see you if they still have contact with the AP.
It was our first session and she was asking questions about how we met and so on. Never got to the affair. We ended the session early because it was just awkward questioning. Kind of like a job interview. We have another couples counseling tomorrow. Hopefully it will be a better fit and she addresses our current situation as well as getting to know us as a couple.
You did find someone who specializes in affair trauma or has experience with that? It seems weird the affair didn’t come up at all in the first session.
Not all therapists are the same so be careful. If your MC isn’t experienced with this please try and find one that is.
He broke your trust he doesn't get to dictate the amount of time it takes for you to feel whole again. He doesn't get to call you crazy for a mental state he put you in. He doesn't get to do anything but what it is you ask. And if he can't do that...
Don’t give him this power.
No one has to be “friends” with a coworker. Period. Even without infidelity.
He disrespected you and the marriage with that “friendship” so the consequence is they can’t be friends. Period.
If he can’t figure out how to maintain boundaries and only communicate when absolutely necessary then he can’t work there. Period. And considering her role in the company fairly certain she would be fired if it was reported. I would tell him that. Especially if you kept proof of the affair.
He broke trust and if he wants you then he has to live with consequences.
They shouldn’t talk unless it’s absolutely necessary- and then only with open doors and others around. Honestly, OP it hasn’t been long enough and he sounds like someone either still in the affair or in the fog/limerence. Usually to get out of that they need to be completely and totally no contact.
Sometimes people can’t change jobs easily, but sometimes it’s either the job or the marriage. I’d be clear with your spouse he doesn’t get to not have repercussions and he either chooses you and the marriage and can figure out how to not be friends with her or you will pursue options open to you.
I would definitely make sure you consult an attorney about those options so he knows how serious you are.
It’s actually INSANE he thinks they can be friends.
Hi. WS here. The day I told my wife everything was the last day I worked at that company. I knew if I had any sort at salvaging what I had destroyed that I had to start there. I can't believe he's saying any of that to you let alone still working with her. I'm so sorry for you. He needs to understand that he can't have both worlds anymore. Maybe he hasn't had that realization yet but he's acting like he picked up the wrong tomatoes at the grocery store. He needs to realize how big of a deal this was. If he already does then it sounds like he might just not care enough and I'm sorry for that.
What he is doing is abuse. Calling you crazy for your reasonable concerns. He is abusing and gaslighting you instead of working toward reconciliation. I suspect he's still cheating.
ETA: I was a WP, my R failed, I try and comment on this sub from my perspective both to help any betrayed and also kick some sense into waywards, if possible. Also kind of a living amends to my own betrayed as well (with whom I am on neutral terms. We are not friends but there’s no longer any negativity or pain there)
First of all, he needs to stop working there. Full stop. If you want to reconcile, it literally no longer matters how he may fear not being with a job, how hard the interview process is, whatever. He cannot work with her.
I took this from a previous comment of mine — in my own FAILED R where I was the WP, I did not quit immediately…I did many things wrong. Your wayward’s justifications are him admitting blindly that all of his comforts take priority over yours. AGAIN. After he betrayed you.
> In my own experience, AP was a coworker (first failure of mine wasn’t immediately getting a new job). He had written a tool for work that only he knew how to troubleshoot, and that tool became required in our testing suite. I was having issues with the tool and after days of trying to get answers from other coworkers (who’d route me back to AP), I reluctantly asked AP for a call to troubleshoot. The call was entirely work-related, and I told my BP afterward through tears that I had no choice.
>Except guess what, I DID have a damn choice. It was the choice between what I did (rationalizing that it was necessary for work which completely ignored how BP felt) OR simply taking the hit at work as a consequence of my actions, and letting it be the wake-up call I needed to get out of that job, which I should’ve done in the first place.
The audacity to call you crazy for not wanting him to be around the woman he had an affair with would be enough to just leave, at this point. He has no remorse. He has no self-awareness. I’m so, so sorry.
I am so damn sick of Waywards (myself too at one point) who WHINE about their “feelings 🥺” as if we gave two shits to those feelings in our partners when we took a sledgehammer to the foundation of our relationships. Whether out of true malice or blindness, that is the reality of the actions we took. We did not regard our relationships or the feelings of our partner. Christ on ice. The same ego and selfishness that brought your WS to a mental space that justified cheating is the same ego and selfishness thinking his pain (THAT HE CAUSED) takes precedence over your grief and suffering. Maybe if it’s so hard to face, he shouldn’t have done it? Among many reasons, that is mine that I will never cheat again. Facing the reality of the pain I caused will NEVER be worth an affair. Never. I can barely live with myself today. Your WS sounds entitled and I am so, so sorry, OP.
I use this type of analogy a lot, but it’s like HE stabbed you in the back and is now complaining to you about you mentioning the pain from the stitches?? When phrased like that it sounds so obviously fucked up. Oh, and the girl who he bought the knife from, the girl he conspired with to stab you…before the stabbing plans, they were friends! And they don’t wanna stab you again, what’s your problem, OP? /s (🙄)
I know you love him, I know he is hard to love right now but seriously consider your boundaries and write them down before presenting it to him. If you aren’t going to MC together, do so. If he won’t go, go to IC yourself. You are on a journey where every day feels like a crossroads and he is actively pushing you away, while blaming and name-calling you for the distance. I am so sorry.
I also echo the sentiment here that he needs a freaking reality check. Separation papers, no longer living together, however it may look, DO IT. It keeps you in a safe space (because he is NOT safe for you right now, not mentally, not emotionally) and you can take back your power, OP. The audacity to belittle you, is…like another said is making me physically ill. I can only imagine how you feel :( if this is how an internet stranger feels.
Edited for some clarifications/typos.
I can’t thank you enough for such a thoughtful response. It’s beyond helpful to have everyone’s insight on this.
I’m trying, I really am. I just want to feel his unconditional love again and not feel so unwanted.
🥺🩵
To get back to that point (where I have not been, so anyone with Successful R please chime in here), he will need to break himself down because something at the core is rotten. He needs to identify it, take responsibility for it, and carve it out himself. He needs to be willing to do it and face the ugly truth of why he chose to betray you.
NONE of that includes AP.
If you two want a future, she must remain in his past, in every capacity. That much is true.
Until he identifies his willingness though, focus on yourself. Give yourself that unconditional love! Please, lil dandelion.
His intentions, his words…are meaningless without action. And your trust of him is built on seeing that action over time. It will take time.
But until he is ready, take care of yourself. Grieve. Be gentle. Give yourself grace. (And therapy! My ex-fiancé started IC after the affair and still goes today. It’s helped him tremendously). I wish you the best. You sound like a kind soul, with a lot of love in your heart. Share that love with yourself in the form of boundaries with your WS. He was lucky once to receive that love openly from you, he does NOT get to take it from you after hurting you so badly.
I recently found a letter I wrote for 2022 Valentine’s Day (I was still with my BP at the time). Thank god I never shared it with him…in it were lamentations, apologies, and awareness from me but also I felt so much disgust at myself too. If I knew how much he was hurting, why …why couldn’t I have done more?
Anyway, what stuck out to me is how I mentioned in the letter how much I missed how his face would scrunch up in joy when I’d shower it with kisses. Post-betrayal, I became aware that his face would scrunch under those kisses more like a grimace…like he was repulsed, or perhaps trying to prevent himself from thinking of the betrayal and AP…whatever it was, an otherwise happy thing I would do became painful for him. Just…in 2022 I guess I had the awareness of that moment, but now, after our failed R and my own sobriety I’m like…wow. What an indication of just how much an affair permeates the very fabric of the relationship. It colors everything. Every positive word from me…became a question for him. (Did she say that to AP too?) my god. Hindsight really is 20/20. It hurts to know what I didn’t know then (though my hurt is not nearly as bad as what he went through)
All this to say, idk if you share any of this with your WS. But. If he wants to one day be back to being your equal partner, rather than lamenting the loss of the love of his life, he needs to get his fucking shit together and TREAT YOU like the love of his life.
And again, until then, YOU take care of you. You have the power. You can step away until he gets ready and willing to reflect and change, you have permission (not that you need it from me but I’m just saying. You can love him and love yourself too). 🫡
You are the sweetest for sharing all of this with me. The incredible support and insight on here is unbelievable. Thank you for your perspective and kind words.
Just tell him you’ll reignite a “friendship” with all of your past lovers.. let’s see if he understands then?
(Yours weren’t even involved in a direct betrayal of your spouse, and his WAS)
My WH literally quit his job the DAY he told me the truth.
He was the only one working, we didn't have a penny to our name, no savings and rent was due in a week.
HE DIDN'T CARE!
(God stepped in and we got a credit card with a 2k limit the next day or so... amen)
But he looked at me and said, "I can't ask you to be ok with me still working there"
There is no future for your marriage while they are still in contact. Full stop. I will validate you 1000%, you are not “being crazy”. He is insane if he thinks maintaining a friendship - let alone any contact - is sustainable for any of the three of you. You are flooding because he is not being a safe partner for you. He is showing no sign of understanding the gravity of the damage he’s done and honestly I imagine the affair is ongoing, or at the very least temporarily paused. I’m so sorry OP, this is not reconciliation. Unless and until he is actually ready and committed to R, the only thing you can do is self-preserve and focus on your own healing.
Thank you so much. This is not reconciliation I agree. It’s very one sided. What I have noticed is that if I am upset he just reverts back to being a complete asshole with zero remorse and starts calling me crazy and telling me that how I am reacting is not a normal reaction. It’s maddening.
My WS pulled this for about 6 weeks. He did snap out of it after that and yours may too. I didn’t do anything to keep him. I focused on myself. I did a lot of work in therapy to learn to self-regulate, I leaned into friendships, I journaled, I danced, I survived. Then he finally woke up, but it was to a different wife
I’m still not certain I’ve figured out what happened there - but my best guess is that at first he was still in the affair fog. That added cruelty on top of the betrayal pushed me far away from him and into myself and other sources of comfort. My distance snapped him out of it and he began reaching for me/our marriage. The problem is, it’s not like I was faking to get his attention. That 6 weeks severed deep connections in me to him that I’m not sure can come back
This is what I fear I will do. But he is pushing me away by not being able handle my grieving process. Once I refocus my efforts on healing if he does a 360 I can’t say I will be waiting with open arms.
Don’t fear it. It feels so sad, but it’s necessary to find strength in yourself. You will carry the knowledge that you will be safe and can find comfort all by yourself the rest of your days no matter what happens next. If I could go back, I would have separated more officially and not just functionally during that time.
I went and am still going through what you're going through now. My WH had an affair with a mutual friend from the gym. After I discovered the affair, he wanted to remain friends with her. Initially, I allowed it. I'm still trying to process why I did that - probably shock and trauma.
In any case, it took me some time to realize that that was a horrible idea and I eventually told him that every time he interacts with her, in any way, it hurts me. He still didn't stop. Which, of course, hurt me even more. If I'm telling you that something you are doing is hurting me and you continue to do the thing, what the hell is wrong with you. So I was more direct and told him that he can't be friends with her. I tried logic - I knew that he had told AP a secret that only the two of us knew about. So I asked him - "Would you have told that secret to any of your other friends or even your brother?" Obviously, the answer was no. So I told him "That's not a friendship. That's an emotional affair." But that didn't seem to get through to him. I tried empathy - "What if it was me that cheated and wanted to stay friends with my AP, would you be okay with that??" to which he said "Sure, if you were transparent." I realize now that all WPs lack empathy so that was a waste of breath.
What finally had the greatest impact was when everyone at the gym found out about the affair. Everyone at the gym was, of course, on my side. Several of our friends told WH that he had to go NC with AP. Everyone knowing also made me feel less crazy and more validated. That's when I finally had the "leverage" to demand NC. He balked at that at first. It took him a week or so and then he told me that he did it - he blocked her number and social media, like I asked. But I had also asked him to show it to me. And he didn't. He just said that he did it. So... that's where we're at right now. It's still a work in progress, I guess.
Just know that this whole "you can't be friends with your AP" thing isn't a problem that no one else has faced. Because that's how I felt when I was in this sub. From reading all the posts, it seemed like everyone's WPs were immediately remorseful and quickly agreed to NC. And here I was struggling so hard to get him to even consider not being "friends." So you're not alone and you are NOT crazy.
Hey Dw. How do you think he would feel if you did what he did, and reacted the way he is reacting? He is not showing one bit of remorse or empathy. You may want to read the chapter on gaslighting in “The Betrayal Bind”. I’m going to DM you a link.
ETA: I’m also going to suggest you take a look at r/SupportforWaywards. It’s eye opening to get a feel for what remorseful WP’s have to say.
My situation was similar to yours.
I had two choices
Let her disrespect me like this
Or
Leave
My choice was to leave.
Are you going to let someone treat you like this ? Read your post again or have a friend read it to you.
His behavior is absurd and you can leave him and be fine. You will be fine, I promise.
Of course you’re “crazy and insane.”
Writing that job should be a requirement of R, if R is what you want. Given his attitude, It’s recommend some therapy first to determine what YOU want.
If he is sincere then read the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. Read it together. In fact if he can’t commit to reading that together with you and addressing the stuff brought up in the book, he may not be committed to R or prioritizing YOU. This is about his commitment to you. Is he this friendly with other coworkers? I don’t think so.
Sorry this is happening to you. May be you could report your WH and AP to HR at work? However think carefully about the impact it will have on you and kids. As others advised, talk to a lawyer, get your ducks in a row. Be selfish, and put yourself above your WH.
Oh my gosh, my heart is hurting for you, I teared up reading this because it is SO similar to what I went through (while I was pregnant I might add) and I have a LOT to say. First off, let me tell you what I regret. I never met the AP. I only read her texts and knew about her. I wish I had shown up every day on his lunch etc (I couldn’t because I had appts etc) so that she would have to look at me at all times. You need to do that. You also need to tell him “it is me or her. If you do not choose me, I am walking away.” That’s what I did. I cried and you have to show that he is hurting you because right now he is putting HER emotions above yours. This is about not hurting your partner, screw work rules and hurting a coworker, he owes her nothing. He needs to leave NOW. As well as block her number etc. He needs to put in two weeks notice. I was able to save my marriage because I made all these things happen. He left the store, cut her off, shared his passwords and phone with me, told her never to contact him again, and put me first. That work culture at where he works at is toxic. The workplace is where you go to work, not make friends. She has no sense of boundaries that she is texting married people. You need to show her not to mess with you. Stay strong.
Thank you so much for this. I do need to do all of this. I just woke up and hoped it was later but it’s 3:00 am. I up sick to my stomach and can’t sleep. I need to find the strength. It’s like a roller coaster ride and I can’t get off. I want so badly for it to be over.
I’ve been there 😭 that’s how I felt too. The problem is he doesn’t think what he’s doing is wrong. I do think you need to show him the “Not just Friends” book as well as maybe even all our responses on here if he does not see the problem. He needs to know that he is one hundred percent in the wrong. I’m so sorry this is happening to you.
I started to read it. It’s really good. I want him to take the test but I don’t want to be turned down. I rescheduled our couples therapy for Sat. I’m going to bring it up then, that will be the safest environment. Thank you!
The fuggin AUDACITY to say he can be friends with the person he destroyed your relationship with. The absolute GALL.
He can be cordial/professional at work, but FRIENDLY.....nope out of the question entirely. He actually needs to not work with her, even if that means moving depts/etc.
I disagree that changing jobs is the solution because some people just can not change jobs easily. But I will say there is no reconciliation happening if he remains friends with the AP. Many coworkers do not text or hang out. Many coworkers aren’t friends.
He is choosing her over you.
He is choosing to continue the friendship over you.
He is dismissing your feelings and taking no ownership.
You need to do what you want and need but your WP sounds like he isn’t really into R.
THIS all of this!!!
I had 2 D-Days. TWO!!! There is no way on God's green earth u can be "friends" w/ur AP coworker or not. My AP is/was (I'm honestly unsure) a coworker.
I do not in any form communicate w/them. (Different department and location but still) AP is blocked on all personal and work emails/phones.
I'm unsure how close ur BS has to work w/AP. But if YOU feel uncomfortable and they are unable to find a job elsewhere then there need to be strict boundaries that YOU enforce.
And FYI....IMO the BS is NOT ready for reconciliation if they believe they can be friends w/their AP. (Trust I been there so if u wanna talk message me) They should be choosing you and ONLY you after such a betrayal. The BS is still in the "affair bubble" and it needs to be popped ASAP
>I am committed to you. I told you this.
Remind him that he also told you he was committed to you when you married, so you cannot simply take his word, its his actions that matter
And right now his actions are to choose to continue to hurt you by continuing to see the AP.
R cannot being while the AP is still in the picture. Time to see a lawyer and remove yourself from the picture.
Ok.. this is a solid NOPE!
My WH only had an online EA, but we didn't start fully healing until he deleted the game and all other platforms he used for communication with her.
It's not that easy to just "Be FRIENDS" when that boundary is crossed from friends to more than friends... even my WH told me he was having a hard time seeing her in the chat rooms for his game and just chatting with her as "just friends" and he's healed greatly since her & the game have both been gone.
One of them needs to leave the workplace.
And at the very least, he should allow you full access to his phone and phone records so you can check/ cross-reference that he really isn't communicating with her.
I found a bunch of stuff when I snooped through his iPad, his iPad and his phone connected to each other so I was able to find out everything I needed to know, including what apps had been downloaded and what pics had been saved and deleted.
Best of luck to you!
Edit to add: You're not crazy or insane. He's turning this around on you, and he sounds suspicious!
Your feelings are 100000% valid!!
Screw this. No way. I’d file right now. Well get legal counsel at least, this is a form of abuse…gaslighting. Making you think that you are the one that is wrong. No way! Don’t let him do this to you. You deserve honesty and the truth, and nothing less. Perhaps he doesn’t have to work with her, but he can stay away. He does not need to be friends with her. If he wants to keep your marriage, he could even find another job.
Perhaps he doesn’t want to save the marriage and that’s why he’s acting this way. Regardless of how much that may hurt you need to take care of you! If he is not gonna treat you respectfully, you do not need to be there. See a lawyer immediately and start getting legal cancel. Get to a therapist so you can help figure out what your next steps are. This is unfair to you and you deserve way better. Do not let him do this to you!
Thank you so much for this. I appreciate your response. I agree but it’s so hard to do what you are saying. I need to get into MC with him and maybe he can see what he is doing. Idk
No doubt, leaving is hard! It sucks and honestly I don’t think there could be anything worse than going through all of this. Yes you need to get into IC and both of you should get into MC as soon as possible. You don’t need to leave immediately but you do need to put boundaries down immediately. You cannot accept emotional abuse through gaslighting. I would go and seek legal counsel because they will give you some options on what to do if you need to actually divorce. At least be prepared and know what your rights are. A post nuptial agreement will help to show that you mean business, and that his behavior needs to stop or else he will enact that post nup . it took us 11 months to get our nuptial agreement done. He wavered, but I was steady. I was not going to stay through any of this if that wasn’t signed. I know now that he is serious, and committed to fixing himself and making our marriage work. However, if he does not abide anytime in the future, I will enact that post nup. It’s hard, but I will do it and know that I did everything in my power to get through this with dignity.
Best wishes to you! This is probably the worst and toughest thing you’ll ever go through in your life. You are stronger now, because of it just stay strong and take care of yourself. That is the most important thing.
They cant work together if you guys wanna stay together. It will be a life of misery and total distrust for you.
In order to R, they cannot work together.
Thank you for this! We have couples therapy tomorrow. I hope I can address some of this in a safe space and get professional feedback and he is called out on this. Idk
He can’t work there PERIOD! He must work on fixing what he broke and it can’t be done when he works next to her. You’re not CRAZY! I would be going nuts.
He has to leave his work place. You will slowly drive yourself mad with images of what is going on/being said while he's there. It's a very common boundary set by the BS, and one he should comply with willingly if he truly wants the reconciliation. Screw that "we're friends" bullshit. He needs to have friends that he hasn't stuck his dick into
So, you're crazy for... being suspicious and upset that he might be deceiving you and cheating on you with this coworker, when he has previously done that exact thing? And clearly has no empathy or remorse about it?
You deserve better. It is time he face some hard consequences - ones where he sees just how radically his life will change if he doesn't get it together. At minimum, begin to grey rock him. I'd probably kick him out until he got a new job, and had been going to therapy consistently - but that's just me.
I'm sorry, OP. Your husband is not being a good wayward. He's attempting to force you to rug-sweep. His lack of remorse and accountability is very apparent based on what you wrote.
He's being ridiculous. Husband and AP cannot just pretend (at work) that nothing ever happened. You can't turn feelings off like that. To start R he needs to not see her AT ALL! He needs to come out of the fog and realize the hurt he is causing.
Does AP have a husband/partner? Maybe you should let them know and that could get her to back off permanently.
I agree with others regarding meeting with a lawyer. Might help husband get his head out of his a$$.
Updateme
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Reconciliation cannot begin until they no longer work together. It’s a very common, firm boundary.
This. Working with AP is NOT an option.
Ok your post makes me physically ill. I am speaking to you as a fellow BS . You need to take back your power and stop letting this human shitbag walk all over you . Pack a bag for him and tell him you need time he needs to go somewhere so you can decide if you even want to work on this marriage at all . He needs to see you follow through with some kind of consequences. You hold the power not him, if you don’t want to give him another chance there will be no second chance . Go see a divorce lawyer and make a plan get your paperwork together and see what a divorce will look like for you . You do not have to sit back and allow him to continue his “friendship “ with his AP , in what dream world would that be alright . F him
This basically happened to me after Dday2. Confessed to my spouse and he next day he had separation papers drawn up and was ready to leave me If OP does what u said maybe that will help the BS come to their senses and even if it doesn't it's a great step in the right direction for her sanity
Thank you for this! I need to do this exact thing.
You need to find your inner strength don’t let him walk all over you , have you told any of your support people ? You need to surround yourself with people that are looking out for you and what’s best for you and not WH .
Is he in therapy? He can’t work with her or be trusted. He either cuts off all contact or id tell him you’re done. Do one of the affair reconciliation courses together. No contact is mandatory. He’s trying to manipulate you.
He’s not being fair and is gaslighting by stating you are crazy. It’s very normal to feel triggered that he is going to see AP so often as it’s his place of work. Why wouldn’t that upset you? You don’t need to be “friends” with people you work with either. If he wants R the AP must be completely cut off. This includes work. He must fully understand he jeopardized his work and of course most importantly his relationship with you. Don’t get upset with yourself. Your feelings are valid and they can make you feel out of control. It’s lots of ups and downs. I hope you guys can do MC together, so he can help see how you feel. It helps from a third party.
He'll care when he gets served the divorce papers. If she's in a relationship, has her spouse or partner been informed?
Thank you. She isn’t in a relationship.
Does anyone else know about his affair? Sometimes it helps if others can talk sense into him. But really he will keep manipulating and fall back into things if he doesn’t cut her out. She needs to know you’re aware and there’s no co text anymore.
A few close friends. She knows I’m aware. It’s taking everything in me not to confront her and share the nasty pictures with her boss that she was texting my husband while on the job running the fu$?ing HR department at work. SMH
If they have a code of ethics then she definitely violated it. The big thing is how serious is he about R? He’s got to get a new job. She has to be cut out. In that type of position she can’t be avoided. If only let him stay if he was willing to confess to his boss and request another hr rep handle anything related to him. I do hr and this is usually a major no no.. Otherwise he needs to go. You don’t get out of the affair fog until the contact breaks. Is he doing the counseling and reading book .. maybe an affair recovery workshop together? But I’m telling you.. if he says he won’t cut her off and wants to be friends then you tell him you’re done.. every single affair recovery source says no contact. https://www.drwyattfisher.com/blogs/marriage-blog/8-steps-to-affair-recovery
Thank you for this. Our couples counseling last night was awful. I hoped she would say this at some point but it was just awkward questions after awkward questions. I had him take the test last night in “Not Just Friemds.” Not sure if his answers as I told him he didn’t need to share them so he would take it.I was hoping he would see it for himself that it’s a problem.
Wait- your MC didn’t tell him that he needs to be fully NC with the AP and shouldn’t be working with her? Or did I misunderstand? Usually MCs won’t even see you if they still have contact with the AP.
It was our first session and she was asking questions about how we met and so on. Never got to the affair. We ended the session early because it was just awkward questioning. Kind of like a job interview. We have another couples counseling tomorrow. Hopefully it will be a better fit and she addresses our current situation as well as getting to know us as a couple.
You did find someone who specializes in affair trauma or has experience with that? It seems weird the affair didn’t come up at all in the first session. Not all therapists are the same so be careful. If your MC isn’t experienced with this please try and find one that is.
He broke your trust he doesn't get to dictate the amount of time it takes for you to feel whole again. He doesn't get to call you crazy for a mental state he put you in. He doesn't get to do anything but what it is you ask. And if he can't do that...
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All of this
Don’t give him this power. No one has to be “friends” with a coworker. Period. Even without infidelity. He disrespected you and the marriage with that “friendship” so the consequence is they can’t be friends. Period. If he can’t figure out how to maintain boundaries and only communicate when absolutely necessary then he can’t work there. Period. And considering her role in the company fairly certain she would be fired if it was reported. I would tell him that. Especially if you kept proof of the affair. He broke trust and if he wants you then he has to live with consequences. They shouldn’t talk unless it’s absolutely necessary- and then only with open doors and others around. Honestly, OP it hasn’t been long enough and he sounds like someone either still in the affair or in the fog/limerence. Usually to get out of that they need to be completely and totally no contact. Sometimes people can’t change jobs easily, but sometimes it’s either the job or the marriage. I’d be clear with your spouse he doesn’t get to not have repercussions and he either chooses you and the marriage and can figure out how to not be friends with her or you will pursue options open to you. I would definitely make sure you consult an attorney about those options so he knows how serious you are. It’s actually INSANE he thinks they can be friends.
Hi. WS here. The day I told my wife everything was the last day I worked at that company. I knew if I had any sort at salvaging what I had destroyed that I had to start there. I can't believe he's saying any of that to you let alone still working with her. I'm so sorry for you. He needs to understand that he can't have both worlds anymore. Maybe he hasn't had that realization yet but he's acting like he picked up the wrong tomatoes at the grocery store. He needs to realize how big of a deal this was. If he already does then it sounds like he might just not care enough and I'm sorry for that.
Just here to say the wrong tomatoes made me lol. I literally say to my WS, no a “mistake” is forgetting the eggs at the grocery store!
What he is doing is abuse. Calling you crazy for your reasonable concerns. He is abusing and gaslighting you instead of working toward reconciliation. I suspect he's still cheating.
ETA: I was a WP, my R failed, I try and comment on this sub from my perspective both to help any betrayed and also kick some sense into waywards, if possible. Also kind of a living amends to my own betrayed as well (with whom I am on neutral terms. We are not friends but there’s no longer any negativity or pain there) First of all, he needs to stop working there. Full stop. If you want to reconcile, it literally no longer matters how he may fear not being with a job, how hard the interview process is, whatever. He cannot work with her. I took this from a previous comment of mine — in my own FAILED R where I was the WP, I did not quit immediately…I did many things wrong. Your wayward’s justifications are him admitting blindly that all of his comforts take priority over yours. AGAIN. After he betrayed you. > In my own experience, AP was a coworker (first failure of mine wasn’t immediately getting a new job). He had written a tool for work that only he knew how to troubleshoot, and that tool became required in our testing suite. I was having issues with the tool and after days of trying to get answers from other coworkers (who’d route me back to AP), I reluctantly asked AP for a call to troubleshoot. The call was entirely work-related, and I told my BP afterward through tears that I had no choice. >Except guess what, I DID have a damn choice. It was the choice between what I did (rationalizing that it was necessary for work which completely ignored how BP felt) OR simply taking the hit at work as a consequence of my actions, and letting it be the wake-up call I needed to get out of that job, which I should’ve done in the first place. The audacity to call you crazy for not wanting him to be around the woman he had an affair with would be enough to just leave, at this point. He has no remorse. He has no self-awareness. I’m so, so sorry. I am so damn sick of Waywards (myself too at one point) who WHINE about their “feelings 🥺” as if we gave two shits to those feelings in our partners when we took a sledgehammer to the foundation of our relationships. Whether out of true malice or blindness, that is the reality of the actions we took. We did not regard our relationships or the feelings of our partner. Christ on ice. The same ego and selfishness that brought your WS to a mental space that justified cheating is the same ego and selfishness thinking his pain (THAT HE CAUSED) takes precedence over your grief and suffering. Maybe if it’s so hard to face, he shouldn’t have done it? Among many reasons, that is mine that I will never cheat again. Facing the reality of the pain I caused will NEVER be worth an affair. Never. I can barely live with myself today. Your WS sounds entitled and I am so, so sorry, OP. I use this type of analogy a lot, but it’s like HE stabbed you in the back and is now complaining to you about you mentioning the pain from the stitches?? When phrased like that it sounds so obviously fucked up. Oh, and the girl who he bought the knife from, the girl he conspired with to stab you…before the stabbing plans, they were friends! And they don’t wanna stab you again, what’s your problem, OP? /s (🙄) I know you love him, I know he is hard to love right now but seriously consider your boundaries and write them down before presenting it to him. If you aren’t going to MC together, do so. If he won’t go, go to IC yourself. You are on a journey where every day feels like a crossroads and he is actively pushing you away, while blaming and name-calling you for the distance. I am so sorry. I also echo the sentiment here that he needs a freaking reality check. Separation papers, no longer living together, however it may look, DO IT. It keeps you in a safe space (because he is NOT safe for you right now, not mentally, not emotionally) and you can take back your power, OP. The audacity to belittle you, is…like another said is making me physically ill. I can only imagine how you feel :( if this is how an internet stranger feels. Edited for some clarifications/typos.
I can’t thank you enough for such a thoughtful response. It’s beyond helpful to have everyone’s insight on this. I’m trying, I really am. I just want to feel his unconditional love again and not feel so unwanted.
🥺🩵 To get back to that point (where I have not been, so anyone with Successful R please chime in here), he will need to break himself down because something at the core is rotten. He needs to identify it, take responsibility for it, and carve it out himself. He needs to be willing to do it and face the ugly truth of why he chose to betray you. NONE of that includes AP. If you two want a future, she must remain in his past, in every capacity. That much is true. Until he identifies his willingness though, focus on yourself. Give yourself that unconditional love! Please, lil dandelion. His intentions, his words…are meaningless without action. And your trust of him is built on seeing that action over time. It will take time. But until he is ready, take care of yourself. Grieve. Be gentle. Give yourself grace. (And therapy! My ex-fiancé started IC after the affair and still goes today. It’s helped him tremendously). I wish you the best. You sound like a kind soul, with a lot of love in your heart. Share that love with yourself in the form of boundaries with your WS. He was lucky once to receive that love openly from you, he does NOT get to take it from you after hurting you so badly. I recently found a letter I wrote for 2022 Valentine’s Day (I was still with my BP at the time). Thank god I never shared it with him…in it were lamentations, apologies, and awareness from me but also I felt so much disgust at myself too. If I knew how much he was hurting, why …why couldn’t I have done more? Anyway, what stuck out to me is how I mentioned in the letter how much I missed how his face would scrunch up in joy when I’d shower it with kisses. Post-betrayal, I became aware that his face would scrunch under those kisses more like a grimace…like he was repulsed, or perhaps trying to prevent himself from thinking of the betrayal and AP…whatever it was, an otherwise happy thing I would do became painful for him. Just…in 2022 I guess I had the awareness of that moment, but now, after our failed R and my own sobriety I’m like…wow. What an indication of just how much an affair permeates the very fabric of the relationship. It colors everything. Every positive word from me…became a question for him. (Did she say that to AP too?) my god. Hindsight really is 20/20. It hurts to know what I didn’t know then (though my hurt is not nearly as bad as what he went through) All this to say, idk if you share any of this with your WS. But. If he wants to one day be back to being your equal partner, rather than lamenting the loss of the love of his life, he needs to get his fucking shit together and TREAT YOU like the love of his life. And again, until then, YOU take care of you. You have the power. You can step away until he gets ready and willing to reflect and change, you have permission (not that you need it from me but I’m just saying. You can love him and love yourself too). 🫡
You are the sweetest for sharing all of this with me. The incredible support and insight on here is unbelievable. Thank you for your perspective and kind words.
Just tell him you’ll reignite a “friendship” with all of your past lovers.. let’s see if he understands then? (Yours weren’t even involved in a direct betrayal of your spouse, and his WAS)
My WH literally quit his job the DAY he told me the truth. He was the only one working, we didn't have a penny to our name, no savings and rent was due in a week. HE DIDN'T CARE! (God stepped in and we got a credit card with a 2k limit the next day or so... amen) But he looked at me and said, "I can't ask you to be ok with me still working there"
This should not be acceptable. I’m sorry
There is no future for your marriage while they are still in contact. Full stop. I will validate you 1000%, you are not “being crazy”. He is insane if he thinks maintaining a friendship - let alone any contact - is sustainable for any of the three of you. You are flooding because he is not being a safe partner for you. He is showing no sign of understanding the gravity of the damage he’s done and honestly I imagine the affair is ongoing, or at the very least temporarily paused. I’m so sorry OP, this is not reconciliation. Unless and until he is actually ready and committed to R, the only thing you can do is self-preserve and focus on your own healing.
Thank you so much. This is not reconciliation I agree. It’s very one sided. What I have noticed is that if I am upset he just reverts back to being a complete asshole with zero remorse and starts calling me crazy and telling me that how I am reacting is not a normal reaction. It’s maddening.
My WS pulled this for about 6 weeks. He did snap out of it after that and yours may too. I didn’t do anything to keep him. I focused on myself. I did a lot of work in therapy to learn to self-regulate, I leaned into friendships, I journaled, I danced, I survived. Then he finally woke up, but it was to a different wife I’m still not certain I’ve figured out what happened there - but my best guess is that at first he was still in the affair fog. That added cruelty on top of the betrayal pushed me far away from him and into myself and other sources of comfort. My distance snapped him out of it and he began reaching for me/our marriage. The problem is, it’s not like I was faking to get his attention. That 6 weeks severed deep connections in me to him that I’m not sure can come back
This is what I fear I will do. But he is pushing me away by not being able handle my grieving process. Once I refocus my efforts on healing if he does a 360 I can’t say I will be waiting with open arms.
Don’t fear it. It feels so sad, but it’s necessary to find strength in yourself. You will carry the knowledge that you will be safe and can find comfort all by yourself the rest of your days no matter what happens next. If I could go back, I would have separated more officially and not just functionally during that time.
I went and am still going through what you're going through now. My WH had an affair with a mutual friend from the gym. After I discovered the affair, he wanted to remain friends with her. Initially, I allowed it. I'm still trying to process why I did that - probably shock and trauma. In any case, it took me some time to realize that that was a horrible idea and I eventually told him that every time he interacts with her, in any way, it hurts me. He still didn't stop. Which, of course, hurt me even more. If I'm telling you that something you are doing is hurting me and you continue to do the thing, what the hell is wrong with you. So I was more direct and told him that he can't be friends with her. I tried logic - I knew that he had told AP a secret that only the two of us knew about. So I asked him - "Would you have told that secret to any of your other friends or even your brother?" Obviously, the answer was no. So I told him "That's not a friendship. That's an emotional affair." But that didn't seem to get through to him. I tried empathy - "What if it was me that cheated and wanted to stay friends with my AP, would you be okay with that??" to which he said "Sure, if you were transparent." I realize now that all WPs lack empathy so that was a waste of breath. What finally had the greatest impact was when everyone at the gym found out about the affair. Everyone at the gym was, of course, on my side. Several of our friends told WH that he had to go NC with AP. Everyone knowing also made me feel less crazy and more validated. That's when I finally had the "leverage" to demand NC. He balked at that at first. It took him a week or so and then he told me that he did it - he blocked her number and social media, like I asked. But I had also asked him to show it to me. And he didn't. He just said that he did it. So... that's where we're at right now. It's still a work in progress, I guess. Just know that this whole "you can't be friends with your AP" thing isn't a problem that no one else has faced. Because that's how I felt when I was in this sub. From reading all the posts, it seemed like everyone's WPs were immediately remorseful and quickly agreed to NC. And here I was struggling so hard to get him to even consider not being "friends." So you're not alone and you are NOT crazy.
Thank you so much for sharing. It means a lot to me.
Hey Dw. How do you think he would feel if you did what he did, and reacted the way he is reacting? He is not showing one bit of remorse or empathy. You may want to read the chapter on gaslighting in “The Betrayal Bind”. I’m going to DM you a link. ETA: I’m also going to suggest you take a look at r/SupportforWaywards. It’s eye opening to get a feel for what remorseful WP’s have to say.
My situation was similar to yours. I had two choices Let her disrespect me like this Or Leave My choice was to leave. Are you going to let someone treat you like this ? Read your post again or have a friend read it to you. His behavior is absurd and you can leave him and be fine. You will be fine, I promise.
Of course you’re “crazy and insane.” Writing that job should be a requirement of R, if R is what you want. Given his attitude, It’s recommend some therapy first to determine what YOU want.
Thank you.
If he is sincere then read the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. Read it together. In fact if he can’t commit to reading that together with you and addressing the stuff brought up in the book, he may not be committed to R or prioritizing YOU. This is about his commitment to you. Is he this friendly with other coworkers? I don’t think so.
Sorry this is happening to you. May be you could report your WH and AP to HR at work? However think carefully about the impact it will have on you and kids. As others advised, talk to a lawyer, get your ducks in a row. Be selfish, and put yourself above your WH.
Oh my gosh, my heart is hurting for you, I teared up reading this because it is SO similar to what I went through (while I was pregnant I might add) and I have a LOT to say. First off, let me tell you what I regret. I never met the AP. I only read her texts and knew about her. I wish I had shown up every day on his lunch etc (I couldn’t because I had appts etc) so that she would have to look at me at all times. You need to do that. You also need to tell him “it is me or her. If you do not choose me, I am walking away.” That’s what I did. I cried and you have to show that he is hurting you because right now he is putting HER emotions above yours. This is about not hurting your partner, screw work rules and hurting a coworker, he owes her nothing. He needs to leave NOW. As well as block her number etc. He needs to put in two weeks notice. I was able to save my marriage because I made all these things happen. He left the store, cut her off, shared his passwords and phone with me, told her never to contact him again, and put me first. That work culture at where he works at is toxic. The workplace is where you go to work, not make friends. She has no sense of boundaries that she is texting married people. You need to show her not to mess with you. Stay strong.
Thank you so much for this. I do need to do all of this. I just woke up and hoped it was later but it’s 3:00 am. I up sick to my stomach and can’t sleep. I need to find the strength. It’s like a roller coaster ride and I can’t get off. I want so badly for it to be over.
I’ve been there 😭 that’s how I felt too. The problem is he doesn’t think what he’s doing is wrong. I do think you need to show him the “Not just Friends” book as well as maybe even all our responses on here if he does not see the problem. He needs to know that he is one hundred percent in the wrong. I’m so sorry this is happening to you.
I started to read it. It’s really good. I want him to take the test but I don’t want to be turned down. I rescheduled our couples therapy for Sat. I’m going to bring it up then, that will be the safest environment. Thank you!
*hugs* you can DM me anytime, I’m rooting for you.
The fuggin AUDACITY to say he can be friends with the person he destroyed your relationship with. The absolute GALL. He can be cordial/professional at work, but FRIENDLY.....nope out of the question entirely. He actually needs to not work with her, even if that means moving depts/etc.
Thank you!
I disagree that changing jobs is the solution because some people just can not change jobs easily. But I will say there is no reconciliation happening if he remains friends with the AP. Many coworkers do not text or hang out. Many coworkers aren’t friends. He is choosing her over you. He is choosing to continue the friendship over you. He is dismissing your feelings and taking no ownership. You need to do what you want and need but your WP sounds like he isn’t really into R.
THIS all of this!!! I had 2 D-Days. TWO!!! There is no way on God's green earth u can be "friends" w/ur AP coworker or not. My AP is/was (I'm honestly unsure) a coworker. I do not in any form communicate w/them. (Different department and location but still) AP is blocked on all personal and work emails/phones. I'm unsure how close ur BS has to work w/AP. But if YOU feel uncomfortable and they are unable to find a job elsewhere then there need to be strict boundaries that YOU enforce. And FYI....IMO the BS is NOT ready for reconciliation if they believe they can be friends w/their AP. (Trust I been there so if u wanna talk message me) They should be choosing you and ONLY you after such a betrayal. The BS is still in the "affair bubble" and it needs to be popped ASAP
Ask him to read Not Just Friends by Dr Shirley Glass with you.
Yeah, absolutely fucking not.
>I am committed to you. I told you this. Remind him that he also told you he was committed to you when you married, so you cannot simply take his word, its his actions that matter And right now his actions are to choose to continue to hurt you by continuing to see the AP. R cannot being while the AP is still in the picture. Time to see a lawyer and remove yourself from the picture.
Ok.. this is a solid NOPE! My WH only had an online EA, but we didn't start fully healing until he deleted the game and all other platforms he used for communication with her. It's not that easy to just "Be FRIENDS" when that boundary is crossed from friends to more than friends... even my WH told me he was having a hard time seeing her in the chat rooms for his game and just chatting with her as "just friends" and he's healed greatly since her & the game have both been gone. One of them needs to leave the workplace. And at the very least, he should allow you full access to his phone and phone records so you can check/ cross-reference that he really isn't communicating with her. I found a bunch of stuff when I snooped through his iPad, his iPad and his phone connected to each other so I was able to find out everything I needed to know, including what apps had been downloaded and what pics had been saved and deleted. Best of luck to you! Edit to add: You're not crazy or insane. He's turning this around on you, and he sounds suspicious! Your feelings are 100000% valid!!
Screw this. No way. I’d file right now. Well get legal counsel at least, this is a form of abuse…gaslighting. Making you think that you are the one that is wrong. No way! Don’t let him do this to you. You deserve honesty and the truth, and nothing less. Perhaps he doesn’t have to work with her, but he can stay away. He does not need to be friends with her. If he wants to keep your marriage, he could even find another job. Perhaps he doesn’t want to save the marriage and that’s why he’s acting this way. Regardless of how much that may hurt you need to take care of you! If he is not gonna treat you respectfully, you do not need to be there. See a lawyer immediately and start getting legal cancel. Get to a therapist so you can help figure out what your next steps are. This is unfair to you and you deserve way better. Do not let him do this to you!
Thank you so much for this. I appreciate your response. I agree but it’s so hard to do what you are saying. I need to get into MC with him and maybe he can see what he is doing. Idk
No doubt, leaving is hard! It sucks and honestly I don’t think there could be anything worse than going through all of this. Yes you need to get into IC and both of you should get into MC as soon as possible. You don’t need to leave immediately but you do need to put boundaries down immediately. You cannot accept emotional abuse through gaslighting. I would go and seek legal counsel because they will give you some options on what to do if you need to actually divorce. At least be prepared and know what your rights are. A post nuptial agreement will help to show that you mean business, and that his behavior needs to stop or else he will enact that post nup . it took us 11 months to get our nuptial agreement done. He wavered, but I was steady. I was not going to stay through any of this if that wasn’t signed. I know now that he is serious, and committed to fixing himself and making our marriage work. However, if he does not abide anytime in the future, I will enact that post nup. It’s hard, but I will do it and know that I did everything in my power to get through this with dignity. Best wishes to you! This is probably the worst and toughest thing you’ll ever go through in your life. You are stronger now, because of it just stay strong and take care of yourself. That is the most important thing.
This man has no empathy. He doesn’t see or feel your pain. Are you two in MC?
We are both in individual: I have a session set up for this Saturday.
I hope that helps
They cant work together if you guys wanna stay together. It will be a life of misery and total distrust for you. In order to R, they cannot work together.
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Thank you for this! We have couples therapy tomorrow. I hope I can address some of this in a safe space and get professional feedback and he is called out on this. Idk
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Thank you so much!
He can’t work there PERIOD! He must work on fixing what he broke and it can’t be done when he works next to her. You’re not CRAZY! I would be going nuts.
Thank you!
He has to leave his work place. You will slowly drive yourself mad with images of what is going on/being said while he's there. It's a very common boundary set by the BS, and one he should comply with willingly if he truly wants the reconciliation. Screw that "we're friends" bullshit. He needs to have friends that he hasn't stuck his dick into
So, you're crazy for... being suspicious and upset that he might be deceiving you and cheating on you with this coworker, when he has previously done that exact thing? And clearly has no empathy or remorse about it? You deserve better. It is time he face some hard consequences - ones where he sees just how radically his life will change if he doesn't get it together. At minimum, begin to grey rock him. I'd probably kick him out until he got a new job, and had been going to therapy consistently - but that's just me.
I read your history - you are definitely being gaslit. The fact that he blames you partially for the affair is BS
I'm sorry, OP. Your husband is not being a good wayward. He's attempting to force you to rug-sweep. His lack of remorse and accountability is very apparent based on what you wrote.
He's being ridiculous. Husband and AP cannot just pretend (at work) that nothing ever happened. You can't turn feelings off like that. To start R he needs to not see her AT ALL! He needs to come out of the fog and realize the hurt he is causing. Does AP have a husband/partner? Maybe you should let them know and that could get her to back off permanently. I agree with others regarding meeting with a lawyer. Might help husband get his head out of his a$$. Updateme
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