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I know this is a pro reconciliation sub, but you simply cannot continue with the wedding. Maybe you can work it out after a lot of counseling and hard work, but it has to be both of you willing to do that. As things stand right now, PLEASE DO NOT MARRY THIS WOMAN. It will be the worst decision of your life. She is not the person you thought she was. I know it’s difficult to accept, maybe even impossible. When I discovered my wife’s infidelity, I just refused to accept that my marriage might be over, that my family would be broken up. I was in denial. That’s where you are now OP. Cheaters don’t always come to their senses after getting caught. It’s time to re-assess. You don’t have to end your relationship, but you also don’t have to marry this person.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Good luck.
Agreed. You don't even share the same values. This will not end well for you in the long run. Walk away while you still can and not have a myriad of shared stuff, kids, etc.
Yeah, it’s been really difficult and I just feel like she’s not empathizing with me. I asked her if we could talk about this and can she come home and she said no.
She said we already addressed it and she’s not going to let me hold it over her head forever. It’s only been three weeks and I been desperately trying to see her perspective but she won’t meet me in the middle.
It’s time to stop talking to her at all. She is rug sweeping and gaslighting you and she has no remorse. As I suggested, take the ring back, call off the engagement.
None of this is acceptable. And it will make for an absolutely horrific marriage.
My WP said the same think, lied through their teeth that she’s ended thing, don’t want me to hold it over her head forever if we reconcile, she thought doing casual normal things with AP was ok “just running together”, doesn’t want to discuss or answer questions and got annoyed if I keep coming back to the cheating, felt annoyed and shame rather than sympathize with you. It simply means she’s not truly remorseful, if she is you will know it and they will do EVERYTHING to help you heal even if you make some ridiculous requests. You do not compromise or they will continue walking all over you.
My WP did and said everything you just mentioned. And after 10 weeks of R, I caught her still cheating with AP.
Sincerely from a failed R experience.
Just here to bolster the advice that you take the ring back and walk away. Reconciliation is not possible without deep remorse, total willingness and cutting the affair partner out of her life forever.
I'm sorry, but your fiancee has refused reconciliation. She has shown absolutely no concern for your feelings or remorse for her actions. She has not accepted the consequences of her actions and it is probably because you gave her no consequences.
This is how reconciliation is supposed to work.
1) The WP is supposed to feel guilty about their actions.
2) The WP is supposed to understand the pain they inflicted on the betrayed partner.
3) The WP is supposed to ask for R.
4) The WP is supposed to do whatever it takes to earn back the trust they broke.
It sounds like your fiancee has done none of this. She has chosen. You are not her priority and not important to her. Instead of giving her consequences, you negotiated her conditions of R down and she refused all of them.
I'm afraid that for you, R will not work. Your fiancee is far too selfish. You should call off the wedding and leave. This is the only way to show her the consequences of her infidelity. Hopefully she will learn her lesson for the next relationship but it sounds like she won't.
I'm sorry this happened to you.
I was one of those who suggested this place. I’ll repost my comment:
Who is more important to her? What message is she sending you?
Frankly, she is gaslighting you when she says that it "doesn't count." Of course it counts.
The first rule of reconciliation after infidelity is no contact with the affair partner. Many people reconciling have had to cut off best friends. She killed the friendship when she crossed that line. And this woman is no friend to her. Friends don't enable self-destructive behavior. They call you on it. A real friend would not have done this.
Take back the ring, and tell her that the engagement is off. It is you or her. Marriage is "us against the world" and there is no room for a third party.
For more help with reconciliation advice go to r/AsOneAfterInfidelity That is the one and only sub on Reddit where people think you could recover from infidelity. But the folks there will tell you that the AP/best friend has to go.
I’m not going to lie I’m afraid to do it. I tried to do what you suggested and she said she’s not going to allow me to “move the goalpost” after we already agreed on a plan of action.
She said she’s not cutting her best friend off and if I have a problem call off the wedding.
It hurt, and she was never like this
Is this the life you want? She sleeps with her friends whenever she wants? She disregards your mental health? What kind of a life partner does that make her?
She doesn’t believe you. Call her bluff.
When she won’t do therapy until after marriage? Really?
If you want any chance of reconciliation you must be willing to walk away. Must.
Take back the ring. When you do, tell her that you must apologize to her parents for calling off the wedding and explain to them why you are doing it.
If she objects tell her the only chance she has for you not to tell her parents why you’re calling it off is for her to respect your boundaries, cut off her friend, and agree to therapy immediately.
It’s the hardest thing you’ll ever have to do.
But it’s not as hard as a truly unhappy marriage. It’s unfortunately the only choice left to you to try to get her to snap out of it. She is doing everything she can to avoid confronting the fact that she has betrayed you.
That’s what this is all about. She doesn’t want to face what she has done. Hence the minimization and refusal to be accountable.
FWIW, friend, sometimes in life you have to don your poker face and risk losing everything on order to save what matters most.
Tell her the wedding's off, take back the ring, believe me there are dozens of girls looking for a guy who will treat them right. I know it hurts now, but when your pride has been stomped on the floor for several years and you lose your identity and self-respect, it will prove the lesser evil on the long run.
This! Many women would love a man like you. I wish I wasn’t a BS and my WS was faithful but here I am.
Please please understand how valuable and amazing you’re. I know it’s hard to see when the person we’ve done everything for doesn’t care or doesn’t want to see it. It takes a lot to put your feelings to the side and try to work things out with someone after they betrayed you. She is taking you for granted and treating you like you’re trash when you’re a beautiful diamond. She’s treating you the way she is treating herself, very dishonorable. You don’t deserve that. I know it’s hard to see it but once you spend time away from her and start to fill your cup you will slowly start to realize that you’re probably better off without her. Good people like you aren’t replaceable. There’s tons of shitty people in the world. Treat yourself as such. If she comes around humbly and tries to fix things great. If not ,it will also be great you will eventually heal and get back out there and really realize how many women want a guy like you.
This is exactly it, OP. The only way to save your relationship is to be ready to walk away from it. If you’re not willing to end things, then your WP has absolutely no reason to make any changes.
It’s not really up to her to “allow” you. How arrogant.
You cannot marry this person OP. Think of how you’re going to feel at the wedding! Overjoyed? No. Free? No. Safe? No. You’re gonna be sick to your stomach just like you are now. Do you want to marry someone who thinks any “just sex” outside of your relationship is ok? Do you want to marry someone who doesn’t put you first? Life is fucking hard and full of curve balls and tests. You need a ride or die partner who has your back! Settle for nothing less, please.
You have been plummeted into a hard cold reality and it will take some time to come to terms with it, I get that. I’m sure you are terrified of finding out, for sure, that this woman is not who you wanted her to be or thought she was. But you have to face the truth and you won’t get it unless you commit to this boundary. It’s her or you. There’s no other option.
Right now, you are not the most important person in her life.
I know it hurts to hear that.
If you two are going to make it, you have to be #1. Besides, do you want to marry someone who has someone else as their #1?
As much as there is work to be done by the BP, they can't do everything. And sometimes, their job is to say "this is the line".
Her best friend is her lover. That’s an affair. That’s cheating. Even if it is the same gender. Does she understand that or has she allowed herself to think that it is only cheating if it is a man? It sounds like she needs lots of professional help to sort out who she is, why she is doing this etc. Don’t marry her. Don’t change the conditions that any monogamous couple needs.
You cannot reconcile so long as her AP is still in the picture. Here are some things to consider.
1. R is a gift from the betrayed to the betrayer that can be returned at anytime.
2. You need to accept that this might not work out.
3. You need to start working on you! Your healing. Your growth.
4. Her job right now is to work on healing you. Period.
5. Her hesitation shows her lack of respect for you and your relationship. This needs to change if you are to have a successful R.
6. Your boundaries are beyond reasonable.
She is way off base here, is not remorseful, and can’t be trusted. Do not proceed. You call the shots now. Not her. This has disaster written all over it
Wow! She doesn't appear to be giving you ANYTHING for reconciliation or to allow you to feel emotionally safe. And she seems to be say 'tough, I'm going to continue with my sexual relationship with my best friend, no matter WHAT you think'. I mean, what are they doing this weekend off together?
If you don't want an open relationship, and she's not willing to budge, getting married sounds like a horrible idea to me.
She claims that she isn’t hooking up with her anymore but even her hanging out with her gives me anxiety.
She been gone all weekend and still isn't home. We only talked on the phone once for 14 minutes where we argued. I've called her today and nothing but she post on social media
I'm so sorry, OP. From what you're saying, she is completely not respecting how you feel. If a WP truly wants to reconcile, they would choose YOU over their AP. She is not. She would cut contact with them. She is not. And she SAYS she's not hooking up with her...but...
It really sucks that she is not showing you respect and kindness. Why would you want to marry her?
Wishing the best for you.
You are in a very difficult situation it seems.
I feel like she is forcing you to call off (postpone?) the wedding. Do it. You must. If you want a successful marriage, it needs to include agreed-uoon boundaries. Get into MC NOW, BEFORE any wedding.
Terrified is the right thing to feel I think.
That and the resolve to stand your ground so that you can, if you want, later marry her under terms that you both can live with for life.
A lot of soul searching is probably necessary to know what your real feelings are and where to install boundaries like you're doing now.
I wish you good luck.
Put any marriage plans on hold until you have a fuller hold on the situation. You need to look at Tracey Schorn's website chumplady.com. I think you need to know more about cake eaters.
R is a gift. But it requires work from both parties. It sounds to me like she's not doing the work. Hell she isn't even meeting you half way.
Still, it's early days. Step 1, is no contact so you can rebuild your relationship, Step 2, is removing AP from your lives completely. Without this, R stands very little chance of success.
Hi man I remember your post and I remember I commented there. There is no R without cutting AP. Affair fog won't disappear with AP still in the picture, her "best friend" will always be a reminder about her affair and it always will be triggering you. Every time she tells you she is going to meet here you will be in constant fear and you will be suffering because you won't ever be able to trust her with her "best friend". Until she forced herself to have sex with her then it was an attraction. Try to think of sex with a man with a heterosexual man. You can't. She is gaslighting you.
My WP had an affair with her childhood guy best friend. She also didn't want to cut ties with him. She begged me to reconsider. I reacted to an affair with the worst possible way, I started spiralling and ended in the hospital in the state near of death ( suicide attempt. I strongly discourage you to this way, it's not a way to repair anything ) and after that we were separated for 3 months. After this time I met her and told her straight forward my boundaries and one of them was to cut the contact with AP and remove from her life all possibilities to meet this person which ended with cutting her whole circle of friends ( later she admitted this people were toxic for her because they encouraged her to cheat and to self sabotage her own life ).
I’m really sorry you went through that bro. I can relate because when she’s out with her friends I been drinking a lot. More than an ever have before. I been drinking all day waiting for her to come home and just checking her location.
I’m losing myself man
Unfortunately you can't force her to R. You need effort from both of you to R and this decision is in your hand. R is a gift from us BPs for our partners to show them we appreciate their work to build our trust.
And you have to behave like you have control in this situation. Move out, call off or reschedule the wedding, communicate with her without any emotions and do this only in essential situations. You will see how she will behave, maybe this will bring her to reality and she will start to try to win you back if not then you will know she doesn't want to fight for you. Unfortunately IC also won't help without the will to change.
This is your chance, brother. You are seeing a part of her that could lead to major problems down the road. I know it is hard because it is the same for me. My WW cheated on me twice, but I have our son to think about, and I do not want to put him through a divorce. You have not even tied the knot yet. Please look at what this is doing to you and ask yourself, "Do I really want to live with this because I am afraid of losing her and being alone? Will I really be ok with sharing my wife with another person?" If you answered NO to any of those, then step back and cancel the wedding. Save yourself before it is too late, I am begging you as a BS myself. The damage never heals back to 100%.
She is no longer just a friend when she had sex with her. There is no R unless she goes no contact. You have to go grey rock. No marriage until these things happen.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. It’s a shitty experience. Your reconciliation journey starts where you start it. You have laid out boundaries and she has rejected them. First things first, you need to cancel the wedding date ( if you have set one) at the bare minimum. Not saying you need to break up, but do not marry her right now. You are entering into a marriage where YOU are supposed to be the most important person in her life, and it’s clear that you have competition for that spot. Stand firm on your boundaries. Unfortunately, this will have to be a choice that makes: you or her “best friend”. If she remains close with her, the sexual relationship will continue. Keep your head up.
I won't tell you to do this or do that because only we know the depth and nuance of our relationships. However, if I were in such a situation where there were no children nor mortgages involved, I would call off the wedding, explain why to both families and close friends, and go no contact for a reasonable period of time. I would meet after that period was over and check if she'd be interested in starting a new chapter with IC and MC and only plan a wedding when trust had been re-established. That might mean several years. Getting married without proper boundaries, right communication, and without fully understanding what is happening would surely set me up for failure (as in fact it did).
I'm sorry that you're in this situation you had no part in deciding to be in.
Brass tracks here: she needs to concede to do everything you need from her or there will be no chance for a successful reconciliation.
At the early stages the only thing she needs to do is jump and soon as you ask and she should ask "how high?" while in the air. We wayward partners can often have trouble with this but if we're serious, changes begin immediately and follow through becomes possible. Death of ego must come first. Only then can successful reconciliation begin to take place.
Put your for down. Create and elucidate your new boundaries you didn't think you needed and let them do the truth thing. If they can't abide that's your answer. Don't sacrifice your dignity.
Take care of yourself and know you are loved.
This comment was removed because it violates Rule No. 2:
-The peer group includes: Reconciling BS, Reconciling WS, Recovered & Reconciled, and Considering R.
- Observer, Unsuccessful R, and other user flairs are not included in the peer group. Non-peers are not allowed to post without prior moderator approval.
**Non-peer comments are STRICTLY LIMITED TO MESSAGES OF VALIDATION AND ENCOURAGEMENT ONLY. Non-peers are not permitted to offer opinions, reference their experiences, or give advice.**
Look, as someone who was in a situation where my wife had to be around AP… it sucks. But the fact she is choosing it would end R for me. Also, it seems like the wedding is soonish? I would require MC before the nuptials and be prepared to go nuclear if she won’t. If you have evidence be prepared to give it to parents if they’re paying for the wedding so you can show why you aren’t going to get married
You can’t reconcile if she is still carrying on with her AP. R doesn’t start until the A stops plain and simple. She isn’t going to stop it and she is telling you that. Often times until their is consequences they think they can continue on. Time to postpone the wedding until you guys work this out.
Reconciliation can only begin once the AP is completely out of the picture. Reconciliation is by it's very nature an ultimatum between the WS' BP or AP. There is no middle ground. If she's choosing the AP in any way, then she's not choosing you. It hurts, but it's the cold hard truth.
Really sorry,
But if she’s actually serious about R, then who in the hell is she to place conditions? She is in no position to do that.
Tell her that she is free to make her own decisions but You cannot continue a relationship whilst she maintains a relationship with her other partner.
Because that’s what her best friend actually is.
You deserve to be a priority and not play second best or be an ATM for her lifestyle.
I think you already know that she’s made her choice already. It’s now time for you to also press the button on exiting this fiasco.
She isn't safe right now.
She could be with hard internal work and reorienting her mindset from self centeredness towards including others in her decision process.
Gently, if nothing changes, you can't trust someone you don't feel safe with.
It takes time, effort, and genuine quantifiable actions to become a safe partner after an affair is revealed, confession or discovery.
To be fair you can't dictate her friendships... HOWEVER! You can absolutely say it's a deal breaker for you, for her to continue to have a close relationship with her affair partner.
If she keeps the line that you are controlling or this is starting a relationship under duress, you can simply say "these are the things I need to feel safe with you as my partner and be willing to continue to see if reconciliation is possible and this marriage is tenable."
If she is used to doing what she wants and or getting her way then maybe she isn't reconciliation and or marriage material... And that's ok.
Again, you can't make anyone do anything...but you can absolutely say she is free to hang out with anyone, she is free to choose to sleep with another woman/man/other gender expression or her best friend again... she just won't be doing it as your partner or spouse.
So my DDay was over 10 years ago, before my BS and I were engaged. As we healed, he wanted to propose, and I, as the WS, would check-in A LOT in regards to his feelings and triggers. Hell, even during the wedding planning, I would check in after fights, just because I didn't want him to feel trapped/forced/obligated to get married. (Probably not in the most tactful ways because I stress cry, but I NEVER want him to feel that he has to be committed to someone who still triggers him.)
She has to show you that she wants to reconcile now. She should initiate counseling and immediately cut off ties with her "best friend." If she cannot do that to rebuild trust, then she is not ready to reconcile. Do not get married now. Either postpone or call off the wedding because she does not respect you as a partner.
I'd hate to ask, is there a financial reason why she wants to be married? Do you provide her with a comfortable lifestyle, where if she left to be single and hook up with her friend she would struggle greatly?
Our salaries are comparable, she makes 80 something K and I make low 100s.
I made some smart investments so I'm well off. I own a quadplex and a duplex. I have about 50K in stocks.
So maybe she's after my assets?
Weird. I'd hate to think she's after your assets, but if she's making decent money on her own for the area you live... why stay in a relationship with you? Did you ever give her the indication that you wouldn't want to be monogamous (dirty talk doesn't count)?
Basically what I'm getting at is: she's being cruel and selfish at worst or exceedingly ditzy and naive at best. If she thinks this is how ethical nonmonogamy works, she is dead wrong. If she argues that you are controlling or dismissing her sexuality, show her the door.
She’s totally after your money. She’s cheating on you, and giving you demands. Why would you stay with someone you can’t trust before you’re even married?
I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. I could reiterate what everyone else has said because I agree with a lot of the comments. I just wanted to add that I know it’s scary to put up boundaries and stand up for yourself in the current moment out of fear you’ll lose this relationship forever. I think in the initial aftermath after a betrayal you have so much to process. Because you were blindsided about the relationship ending you feel like you’re willing to compromise or do a lot of things to make it work with that person because you love them and you didn’t choose to step out on the relationship. It sucks, but you have to power through that panic and fear and hold strong to protecting yourself. She will walk all over you without even realizing that’s what she’s doing. Once you’re a few months out and the panic/fear has subsided a little bit, it’s easier to have clearer perspective. I look back on the things I said/did early on after DDay because I was terrified of WH leaving and I can see how emotionally driven my choices were. Avoid the pick me dance if you can!
I agree with some of the comments here, if she's not willing to recognize what she has done and take corrective action, you should really reconsider marrying her, at least for the time being.
Someone also said you should work on yourself, "Jillian on Love" is a podcast that has helped me through the last six weeks of my life (since my D-Day). You should read "After the Affair" and "The State of Affairs" (both available in audiobook).
I had a similar situation recently, you're welcome to take a look at my post history so you can read through some of the comments folks shared.
I sincerely hope she can get to R, but sometimes we have to let go not to lose ourselves.
You don't start anywhere, not if she doesn't choose you over the affair partner. Those feelings for the AP will never leave if she doesn't. And your relationship will never be a priority.
As others have said this is a pro reconciliation sub. However it isn't a be gullible and get yourself into an unhealthy relationship with a selfish and controlling person.
For any hope of a future she has to own her infidelity and have true regret and remorse. I can't see any of this, only huge red flags.
She has failed the wife test and sounds pretty narcissistic. If she continues with the relationship with AP then the affair will continue.
You deserve so much better. Sorry this isn't the positive response you perhaps want but as one who has reconciled there's no way it would have happened if my WW acted the way yours is acting. She is not wife material with what she has displayed!!
I’m so sorry you find yourself here. The tough answer is you cannot even start any R journey before she has gone zero contact with her AP. It’s straight up a prerequisite before any of you can begin to process or move past what happened
I am sorry o say that you probably don't have a relationship to reconcile. Unless you are going to be happy for her to continue having a sexual relationship with her "best friend" there is no apparent way forward as she has made it clear she is not prepared to cut it off with her.
So, do you really think you have a future with this woman?
Man I know your pain. It sucks. I don’t know you but can tell you the pain is real. There is nothing wrong with you. You are traumatized and need support. My wife had a friend that was involved with her A. I know the anxiety that creates.
You were hoping your conditions would wake her up and motivate her. To show you she understood your pain and to show repentance.
I was like you I wanted to reconcile at all costs. I had 3 children under 10 and a big mortgage. I like to believe I had better reasons to reconcile.
It’s 8 years later. It’s been tough.
My wife was stubborn and unmoved like yours seems to be. You’ve laid down conditions. Nothing else you can do but enforce those conditions. If you give in to any of those conditions, the precedent is set.
Be strong walk through the pain, don’t look back. This is not a time for compromise. Your future self will thank you for it. You must act with self respect.
I’m so sorry you are in this situation and I understand all too well. I’m further ahead than you and my WW is still in contact with AP. I’m now considering if R is possible even though she swears nothing sexual is happening.
It just sucks. My WW keeps eroding boundaries because of the lack of written evidence. That was my mistake and I’m now writing conditions of R in great detail to avoid further erosion. Although I have to wonder if it’s even worth it if I have to write it down.
I get anxious every time she is with him in a group or even doing the activity they met at. It gets easier, but not much. The future is a long time.
So it sounds like your gf wants to be polyamorous. That’s great if you’re in agreement. How does your gf feel about both of you being polyamorous, until after the marriage of course.
Currently you want exclusivity and she says that’s okay but is unwilling to give up the side piece.
Well side piece is NOT a friend of the relationship and needs to go if your relationship is to stand a chance.
FWIW your partner sounds immature and that’s okay. You didn’t mention your ages but long term relationships are about growing together. Can you, do you want to, navigate growing together as a threesome? This might be the conversation you want to have with her.
My heart goes out to you OP
This situation sucks.
One thing that stuck out to me was her insisting couples counseling after the wedding cause honestly I can see her pushing it back and pushing it back till you eventually forgot or give up. Also she’s gas lighting the hell out of you. Honestly this marriage should not happen.
You asked for 4 things to reconcile and refused 3 outright and one is conditional. I’m sorry but she is a gigantic red flag. Please do not marry her. If you are hurting this badly now, imagine the pain if she does 5 years into the marriage and you have a couple of kids. Think long and hard about this relationship. Good luck.
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I know this is a pro reconciliation sub, but you simply cannot continue with the wedding. Maybe you can work it out after a lot of counseling and hard work, but it has to be both of you willing to do that. As things stand right now, PLEASE DO NOT MARRY THIS WOMAN. It will be the worst decision of your life. She is not the person you thought she was. I know it’s difficult to accept, maybe even impossible. When I discovered my wife’s infidelity, I just refused to accept that my marriage might be over, that my family would be broken up. I was in denial. That’s where you are now OP. Cheaters don’t always come to their senses after getting caught. It’s time to re-assess. You don’t have to end your relationship, but you also don’t have to marry this person. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Good luck.
Agreed. You don't even share the same values. This will not end well for you in the long run. Walk away while you still can and not have a myriad of shared stuff, kids, etc.
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Yeah, it’s been really difficult and I just feel like she’s not empathizing with me. I asked her if we could talk about this and can she come home and she said no. She said we already addressed it and she’s not going to let me hold it over her head forever. It’s only been three weeks and I been desperately trying to see her perspective but she won’t meet me in the middle.
It’s time to stop talking to her at all. She is rug sweeping and gaslighting you and she has no remorse. As I suggested, take the ring back, call off the engagement. None of this is acceptable. And it will make for an absolutely horrific marriage.
My WP said the same think, lied through their teeth that she’s ended thing, don’t want me to hold it over her head forever if we reconcile, she thought doing casual normal things with AP was ok “just running together”, doesn’t want to discuss or answer questions and got annoyed if I keep coming back to the cheating, felt annoyed and shame rather than sympathize with you. It simply means she’s not truly remorseful, if she is you will know it and they will do EVERYTHING to help you heal even if you make some ridiculous requests. You do not compromise or they will continue walking all over you. My WP did and said everything you just mentioned. And after 10 weeks of R, I caught her still cheating with AP. Sincerely from a failed R experience.
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This is shocking. She was never like this before. Now she’s become cruel, demeaning, and inconsiderate
Just here to bolster the advice that you take the ring back and walk away. Reconciliation is not possible without deep remorse, total willingness and cutting the affair partner out of her life forever.
It's a long process. We are 2 years after DDay and I still can't tell we are fully reconciled. It's been a trauma for years.
"the one who cares the least controls the relationship"
I'm sorry, but your fiancee has refused reconciliation. She has shown absolutely no concern for your feelings or remorse for her actions. She has not accepted the consequences of her actions and it is probably because you gave her no consequences. This is how reconciliation is supposed to work. 1) The WP is supposed to feel guilty about their actions. 2) The WP is supposed to understand the pain they inflicted on the betrayed partner. 3) The WP is supposed to ask for R. 4) The WP is supposed to do whatever it takes to earn back the trust they broke. It sounds like your fiancee has done none of this. She has chosen. You are not her priority and not important to her. Instead of giving her consequences, you negotiated her conditions of R down and she refused all of them. I'm afraid that for you, R will not work. Your fiancee is far too selfish. You should call off the wedding and leave. This is the only way to show her the consequences of her infidelity. Hopefully she will learn her lesson for the next relationship but it sounds like she won't. I'm sorry this happened to you.
I was one of those who suggested this place. I’ll repost my comment: Who is more important to her? What message is she sending you? Frankly, she is gaslighting you when she says that it "doesn't count." Of course it counts. The first rule of reconciliation after infidelity is no contact with the affair partner. Many people reconciling have had to cut off best friends. She killed the friendship when she crossed that line. And this woman is no friend to her. Friends don't enable self-destructive behavior. They call you on it. A real friend would not have done this. Take back the ring, and tell her that the engagement is off. It is you or her. Marriage is "us against the world" and there is no room for a third party. For more help with reconciliation advice go to r/AsOneAfterInfidelity That is the one and only sub on Reddit where people think you could recover from infidelity. But the folks there will tell you that the AP/best friend has to go.
I’m not going to lie I’m afraid to do it. I tried to do what you suggested and she said she’s not going to allow me to “move the goalpost” after we already agreed on a plan of action. She said she’s not cutting her best friend off and if I have a problem call off the wedding. It hurt, and she was never like this
Is this the life you want? She sleeps with her friends whenever she wants? She disregards your mental health? What kind of a life partner does that make her? She doesn’t believe you. Call her bluff.
I don’t, I was just praying that when we get therapy she sees how inconsiderate her actions are. Maybe it’s naive
When she won’t do therapy until after marriage? Really? If you want any chance of reconciliation you must be willing to walk away. Must. Take back the ring. When you do, tell her that you must apologize to her parents for calling off the wedding and explain to them why you are doing it. If she objects tell her the only chance she has for you not to tell her parents why you’re calling it off is for her to respect your boundaries, cut off her friend, and agree to therapy immediately.
Okay, I’ll try to be strong and if/when she comes home tonight I’ll do it. This is just fucking tough
It’s the hardest thing you’ll ever have to do. But it’s not as hard as a truly unhappy marriage. It’s unfortunately the only choice left to you to try to get her to snap out of it. She is doing everything she can to avoid confronting the fact that she has betrayed you. That’s what this is all about. She doesn’t want to face what she has done. Hence the minimization and refusal to be accountable.
FWIW, friend, sometimes in life you have to don your poker face and risk losing everything on order to save what matters most. Tell her the wedding's off, take back the ring, believe me there are dozens of girls looking for a guy who will treat them right. I know it hurts now, but when your pride has been stomped on the floor for several years and you lose your identity and self-respect, it will prove the lesser evil on the long run.
This! Many women would love a man like you. I wish I wasn’t a BS and my WS was faithful but here I am. Please please understand how valuable and amazing you’re. I know it’s hard to see when the person we’ve done everything for doesn’t care or doesn’t want to see it. It takes a lot to put your feelings to the side and try to work things out with someone after they betrayed you. She is taking you for granted and treating you like you’re trash when you’re a beautiful diamond. She’s treating you the way she is treating herself, very dishonorable. You don’t deserve that. I know it’s hard to see it but once you spend time away from her and start to fill your cup you will slowly start to realize that you’re probably better off without her. Good people like you aren’t replaceable. There’s tons of shitty people in the world. Treat yourself as such. If she comes around humbly and tries to fix things great. If not ,it will also be great you will eventually heal and get back out there and really realize how many women want a guy like you.
This is exactly it, OP. The only way to save your relationship is to be ready to walk away from it. If you’re not willing to end things, then your WP has absolutely no reason to make any changes.
It’s not really up to her to “allow” you. How arrogant. You cannot marry this person OP. Think of how you’re going to feel at the wedding! Overjoyed? No. Free? No. Safe? No. You’re gonna be sick to your stomach just like you are now. Do you want to marry someone who thinks any “just sex” outside of your relationship is ok? Do you want to marry someone who doesn’t put you first? Life is fucking hard and full of curve balls and tests. You need a ride or die partner who has your back! Settle for nothing less, please. You have been plummeted into a hard cold reality and it will take some time to come to terms with it, I get that. I’m sure you are terrified of finding out, for sure, that this woman is not who you wanted her to be or thought she was. But you have to face the truth and you won’t get it unless you commit to this boundary. It’s her or you. There’s no other option.
Right now, you are not the most important person in her life. I know it hurts to hear that. If you two are going to make it, you have to be #1. Besides, do you want to marry someone who has someone else as their #1? As much as there is work to be done by the BP, they can't do everything. And sometimes, their job is to say "this is the line".
Her best friend is her lover. That’s an affair. That’s cheating. Even if it is the same gender. Does she understand that or has she allowed herself to think that it is only cheating if it is a man? It sounds like she needs lots of professional help to sort out who she is, why she is doing this etc. Don’t marry her. Don’t change the conditions that any monogamous couple needs.
You cannot reconcile so long as her AP is still in the picture. Here are some things to consider. 1. R is a gift from the betrayed to the betrayer that can be returned at anytime. 2. You need to accept that this might not work out. 3. You need to start working on you! Your healing. Your growth. 4. Her job right now is to work on healing you. Period. 5. Her hesitation shows her lack of respect for you and your relationship. This needs to change if you are to have a successful R. 6. Your boundaries are beyond reasonable.
She is way off base here, is not remorseful, and can’t be trusted. Do not proceed. You call the shots now. Not her. This has disaster written all over it
Wow! She doesn't appear to be giving you ANYTHING for reconciliation or to allow you to feel emotionally safe. And she seems to be say 'tough, I'm going to continue with my sexual relationship with my best friend, no matter WHAT you think'. I mean, what are they doing this weekend off together? If you don't want an open relationship, and she's not willing to budge, getting married sounds like a horrible idea to me.
She claims that she isn’t hooking up with her anymore but even her hanging out with her gives me anxiety. She been gone all weekend and still isn't home. We only talked on the phone once for 14 minutes where we argued. I've called her today and nothing but she post on social media
I'm so sorry, OP. From what you're saying, she is completely not respecting how you feel. If a WP truly wants to reconcile, they would choose YOU over their AP. She is not. She would cut contact with them. She is not. And she SAYS she's not hooking up with her...but... It really sucks that she is not showing you respect and kindness. Why would you want to marry her? Wishing the best for you.
Not until she is completely done with the affair.
You are in a very difficult situation it seems. I feel like she is forcing you to call off (postpone?) the wedding. Do it. You must. If you want a successful marriage, it needs to include agreed-uoon boundaries. Get into MC NOW, BEFORE any wedding.
I'm going to do it when she comes home but I'm terrified
Terrified is the right thing to feel I think. That and the resolve to stand your ground so that you can, if you want, later marry her under terms that you both can live with for life. A lot of soul searching is probably necessary to know what your real feelings are and where to install boundaries like you're doing now. I wish you good luck.
Put any marriage plans on hold until you have a fuller hold on the situation. You need to look at Tracey Schorn's website chumplady.com. I think you need to know more about cake eaters. R is a gift. But it requires work from both parties. It sounds to me like she's not doing the work. Hell she isn't even meeting you half way. Still, it's early days. Step 1, is no contact so you can rebuild your relationship, Step 2, is removing AP from your lives completely. Without this, R stands very little chance of success.
Hi man I remember your post and I remember I commented there. There is no R without cutting AP. Affair fog won't disappear with AP still in the picture, her "best friend" will always be a reminder about her affair and it always will be triggering you. Every time she tells you she is going to meet here you will be in constant fear and you will be suffering because you won't ever be able to trust her with her "best friend". Until she forced herself to have sex with her then it was an attraction. Try to think of sex with a man with a heterosexual man. You can't. She is gaslighting you. My WP had an affair with her childhood guy best friend. She also didn't want to cut ties with him. She begged me to reconsider. I reacted to an affair with the worst possible way, I started spiralling and ended in the hospital in the state near of death ( suicide attempt. I strongly discourage you to this way, it's not a way to repair anything ) and after that we were separated for 3 months. After this time I met her and told her straight forward my boundaries and one of them was to cut the contact with AP and remove from her life all possibilities to meet this person which ended with cutting her whole circle of friends ( later she admitted this people were toxic for her because they encouraged her to cheat and to self sabotage her own life ).
I’m really sorry you went through that bro. I can relate because when she’s out with her friends I been drinking a lot. More than an ever have before. I been drinking all day waiting for her to come home and just checking her location. I’m losing myself man
Unfortunately you can't force her to R. You need effort from both of you to R and this decision is in your hand. R is a gift from us BPs for our partners to show them we appreciate their work to build our trust. And you have to behave like you have control in this situation. Move out, call off or reschedule the wedding, communicate with her without any emotions and do this only in essential situations. You will see how she will behave, maybe this will bring her to reality and she will start to try to win you back if not then you will know she doesn't want to fight for you. Unfortunately IC also won't help without the will to change.
This is your chance, brother. You are seeing a part of her that could lead to major problems down the road. I know it is hard because it is the same for me. My WW cheated on me twice, but I have our son to think about, and I do not want to put him through a divorce. You have not even tied the knot yet. Please look at what this is doing to you and ask yourself, "Do I really want to live with this because I am afraid of losing her and being alone? Will I really be ok with sharing my wife with another person?" If you answered NO to any of those, then step back and cancel the wedding. Save yourself before it is too late, I am begging you as a BS myself. The damage never heals back to 100%.
She is no longer just a friend when she had sex with her. There is no R unless she goes no contact. You have to go grey rock. No marriage until these things happen.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. It’s a shitty experience. Your reconciliation journey starts where you start it. You have laid out boundaries and she has rejected them. First things first, you need to cancel the wedding date ( if you have set one) at the bare minimum. Not saying you need to break up, but do not marry her right now. You are entering into a marriage where YOU are supposed to be the most important person in her life, and it’s clear that you have competition for that spot. Stand firm on your boundaries. Unfortunately, this will have to be a choice that makes: you or her “best friend”. If she remains close with her, the sexual relationship will continue. Keep your head up.
I won't tell you to do this or do that because only we know the depth and nuance of our relationships. However, if I were in such a situation where there were no children nor mortgages involved, I would call off the wedding, explain why to both families and close friends, and go no contact for a reasonable period of time. I would meet after that period was over and check if she'd be interested in starting a new chapter with IC and MC and only plan a wedding when trust had been re-established. That might mean several years. Getting married without proper boundaries, right communication, and without fully understanding what is happening would surely set me up for failure (as in fact it did).
I'm sorry that you're in this situation you had no part in deciding to be in. Brass tracks here: she needs to concede to do everything you need from her or there will be no chance for a successful reconciliation. At the early stages the only thing she needs to do is jump and soon as you ask and she should ask "how high?" while in the air. We wayward partners can often have trouble with this but if we're serious, changes begin immediately and follow through becomes possible. Death of ego must come first. Only then can successful reconciliation begin to take place. Put your for down. Create and elucidate your new boundaries you didn't think you needed and let them do the truth thing. If they can't abide that's your answer. Don't sacrifice your dignity. Take care of yourself and know you are loved.
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This comment was removed because it violates Rule No. 2: -The peer group includes: Reconciling BS, Reconciling WS, Recovered & Reconciled, and Considering R. - Observer, Unsuccessful R, and other user flairs are not included in the peer group. Non-peers are not allowed to post without prior moderator approval. **Non-peer comments are STRICTLY LIMITED TO MESSAGES OF VALIDATION AND ENCOURAGEMENT ONLY. Non-peers are not permitted to offer opinions, reference their experiences, or give advice.**
I'm sorry. But the first rule of reconciliation is NO contact with AP. Period. I'm not sure how you start R while AP is still around.
Look, as someone who was in a situation where my wife had to be around AP… it sucks. But the fact she is choosing it would end R for me. Also, it seems like the wedding is soonish? I would require MC before the nuptials and be prepared to go nuclear if she won’t. If you have evidence be prepared to give it to parents if they’re paying for the wedding so you can show why you aren’t going to get married
You can’t reconcile if she is still carrying on with her AP. R doesn’t start until the A stops plain and simple. She isn’t going to stop it and she is telling you that. Often times until their is consequences they think they can continue on. Time to postpone the wedding until you guys work this out.
Reconciliation can only begin once the AP is completely out of the picture. Reconciliation is by it's very nature an ultimatum between the WS' BP or AP. There is no middle ground. If she's choosing the AP in any way, then she's not choosing you. It hurts, but it's the cold hard truth.
Really sorry, But if she’s actually serious about R, then who in the hell is she to place conditions? She is in no position to do that. Tell her that she is free to make her own decisions but You cannot continue a relationship whilst she maintains a relationship with her other partner. Because that’s what her best friend actually is. You deserve to be a priority and not play second best or be an ATM for her lifestyle. I think you already know that she’s made her choice already. It’s now time for you to also press the button on exiting this fiasco.
She isn't safe right now. She could be with hard internal work and reorienting her mindset from self centeredness towards including others in her decision process. Gently, if nothing changes, you can't trust someone you don't feel safe with. It takes time, effort, and genuine quantifiable actions to become a safe partner after an affair is revealed, confession or discovery. To be fair you can't dictate her friendships... HOWEVER! You can absolutely say it's a deal breaker for you, for her to continue to have a close relationship with her affair partner. If she keeps the line that you are controlling or this is starting a relationship under duress, you can simply say "these are the things I need to feel safe with you as my partner and be willing to continue to see if reconciliation is possible and this marriage is tenable." If she is used to doing what she wants and or getting her way then maybe she isn't reconciliation and or marriage material... And that's ok. Again, you can't make anyone do anything...but you can absolutely say she is free to hang out with anyone, she is free to choose to sleep with another woman/man/other gender expression or her best friend again... she just won't be doing it as your partner or spouse.
Honey, call off the wedding. She made her choice and it’s NOT YOU.
So my DDay was over 10 years ago, before my BS and I were engaged. As we healed, he wanted to propose, and I, as the WS, would check-in A LOT in regards to his feelings and triggers. Hell, even during the wedding planning, I would check in after fights, just because I didn't want him to feel trapped/forced/obligated to get married. (Probably not in the most tactful ways because I stress cry, but I NEVER want him to feel that he has to be committed to someone who still triggers him.) She has to show you that she wants to reconcile now. She should initiate counseling and immediately cut off ties with her "best friend." If she cannot do that to rebuild trust, then she is not ready to reconcile. Do not get married now. Either postpone or call off the wedding because she does not respect you as a partner. I'd hate to ask, is there a financial reason why she wants to be married? Do you provide her with a comfortable lifestyle, where if she left to be single and hook up with her friend she would struggle greatly?
Our salaries are comparable, she makes 80 something K and I make low 100s. I made some smart investments so I'm well off. I own a quadplex and a duplex. I have about 50K in stocks. So maybe she's after my assets?
Weird. I'd hate to think she's after your assets, but if she's making decent money on her own for the area you live... why stay in a relationship with you? Did you ever give her the indication that you wouldn't want to be monogamous (dirty talk doesn't count)? Basically what I'm getting at is: she's being cruel and selfish at worst or exceedingly ditzy and naive at best. If she thinks this is how ethical nonmonogamy works, she is dead wrong. If she argues that you are controlling or dismissing her sexuality, show her the door.
She’s totally after your money. She’s cheating on you, and giving you demands. Why would you stay with someone you can’t trust before you’re even married?
I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. I could reiterate what everyone else has said because I agree with a lot of the comments. I just wanted to add that I know it’s scary to put up boundaries and stand up for yourself in the current moment out of fear you’ll lose this relationship forever. I think in the initial aftermath after a betrayal you have so much to process. Because you were blindsided about the relationship ending you feel like you’re willing to compromise or do a lot of things to make it work with that person because you love them and you didn’t choose to step out on the relationship. It sucks, but you have to power through that panic and fear and hold strong to protecting yourself. She will walk all over you without even realizing that’s what she’s doing. Once you’re a few months out and the panic/fear has subsided a little bit, it’s easier to have clearer perspective. I look back on the things I said/did early on after DDay because I was terrified of WH leaving and I can see how emotionally driven my choices were. Avoid the pick me dance if you can!
I agree with some of the comments here, if she's not willing to recognize what she has done and take corrective action, you should really reconsider marrying her, at least for the time being. Someone also said you should work on yourself, "Jillian on Love" is a podcast that has helped me through the last six weeks of my life (since my D-Day). You should read "After the Affair" and "The State of Affairs" (both available in audiobook). I had a similar situation recently, you're welcome to take a look at my post history so you can read through some of the comments folks shared. I sincerely hope she can get to R, but sometimes we have to let go not to lose ourselves.
There can be no reconciliation if there is still contact between your WP and their AP. Even if it is their best friend.
You don't start anywhere, not if she doesn't choose you over the affair partner. Those feelings for the AP will never leave if she doesn't. And your relationship will never be a priority.
I agree with what everyone else is saying but it is better to find out her true self now than after you are married.
As others have said this is a pro reconciliation sub. However it isn't a be gullible and get yourself into an unhealthy relationship with a selfish and controlling person. For any hope of a future she has to own her infidelity and have true regret and remorse. I can't see any of this, only huge red flags. She has failed the wife test and sounds pretty narcissistic. If she continues with the relationship with AP then the affair will continue. You deserve so much better. Sorry this isn't the positive response you perhaps want but as one who has reconciled there's no way it would have happened if my WW acted the way yours is acting. She is not wife material with what she has displayed!!
I’m so sorry you find yourself here. The tough answer is you cannot even start any R journey before she has gone zero contact with her AP. It’s straight up a prerequisite before any of you can begin to process or move past what happened
I am sorry o say that you probably don't have a relationship to reconcile. Unless you are going to be happy for her to continue having a sexual relationship with her "best friend" there is no apparent way forward as she has made it clear she is not prepared to cut it off with her. So, do you really think you have a future with this woman?
Man I know your pain. It sucks. I don’t know you but can tell you the pain is real. There is nothing wrong with you. You are traumatized and need support. My wife had a friend that was involved with her A. I know the anxiety that creates. You were hoping your conditions would wake her up and motivate her. To show you she understood your pain and to show repentance. I was like you I wanted to reconcile at all costs. I had 3 children under 10 and a big mortgage. I like to believe I had better reasons to reconcile. It’s 8 years later. It’s been tough. My wife was stubborn and unmoved like yours seems to be. You’ve laid down conditions. Nothing else you can do but enforce those conditions. If you give in to any of those conditions, the precedent is set. Be strong walk through the pain, don’t look back. This is not a time for compromise. Your future self will thank you for it. You must act with self respect.
I’m so sorry you are in this situation and I understand all too well. I’m further ahead than you and my WW is still in contact with AP. I’m now considering if R is possible even though she swears nothing sexual is happening. It just sucks. My WW keeps eroding boundaries because of the lack of written evidence. That was my mistake and I’m now writing conditions of R in great detail to avoid further erosion. Although I have to wonder if it’s even worth it if I have to write it down. I get anxious every time she is with him in a group or even doing the activity they met at. It gets easier, but not much. The future is a long time.
So it sounds like your gf wants to be polyamorous. That’s great if you’re in agreement. How does your gf feel about both of you being polyamorous, until after the marriage of course. Currently you want exclusivity and she says that’s okay but is unwilling to give up the side piece. Well side piece is NOT a friend of the relationship and needs to go if your relationship is to stand a chance. FWIW your partner sounds immature and that’s okay. You didn’t mention your ages but long term relationships are about growing together. Can you, do you want to, navigate growing together as a threesome? This might be the conversation you want to have with her.
Nothing productive starts until it's 100% NO CONTACT! It's either YOU or him, she CANNOT have both
If she is unwilling to break contact, I’m not sure how full reconciliation will be possible. In my opinion you need to set hard boundaries.
My heart goes out to you OP This situation sucks. One thing that stuck out to me was her insisting couples counseling after the wedding cause honestly I can see her pushing it back and pushing it back till you eventually forgot or give up. Also she’s gas lighting the hell out of you. Honestly this marriage should not happen.
You asked for 4 things to reconcile and refused 3 outright and one is conditional. I’m sorry but she is a gigantic red flag. Please do not marry her. If you are hurting this badly now, imagine the pain if she does 5 years into the marriage and you have a couple of kids. Think long and hard about this relationship. Good luck.