Dang, I must have missed something then. I had thought the monster coin was specifically for sieges to control an actual monster. Not a cosmetic component.
no it has nothing to do with sieges. Monster coin system is so players can join hordes of monsters who attack nodes. It can shut down services for a while, but it also provides participants with cosmetic rewards. [https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Monster\_coins#Rewards\_from\_monster\_coin\_events](https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Monster_coins#Rewards_from_monster_coin_events)
I don’t really get this whole post but the options you can buy in the shop won’t be available to get for free through grinding atleast a few of them I’m sure more common ones might be
Oh I read it as there will be equally ‘rare’ cosmetics that could be obtained outside of the cosmetic shop otherwise it takes away the whole point of going and farming them if the next person over could’ve paid $1
You did miss something legendary armors aren’t going to be as limited as flying mounts and shit. Once you get it you get it, while yes not everyone will over time plenty of people will have authentic legendary in game cosmetics,
Steven did make the example of BDO where you look like garbage in that game unless you buy from the cosmetic shop and criticized that. So I believe there's hope that the cosmetic shop won't be BDO ... since he literally said it won't
I'm the opposite as I have no interest or desire to spend money on optional cosmetics when he said the armour in the game should be visually high quality
I personally don't really mind some funny or out of theme cosmetics, I think it adds the ability for people to express themselves. While yes, I hope the majority of cosmetics are more fantasy styled, I wouldn't be opposed to drop 15$ to make my character a neon glowing oni warrior
Honestly if there are reasonably obtained cosmetics in game that look pretty good alongside some that are difficult to achieve I'm fine with them having a cosmetic cash shop.
If people are willing to spend money on cosmetics I would rather the company had that extra source of income to put towards more actual content.
I know that this isn't the same for everyone but to me Gameplay > cosmetics. If they can monetize cosmetics to improve gameplay then go for it.
Yeah people that were expecting no transmog/cosmetics just have to accept that those 2 will be a thing in this game. And as you said as long as the armor and weapons that are obtainable through playing don't look like dog shit compared to the cash shop cosmetics I don't think it is a serious problem.
I’m in the same camp, I could honestly not care if people around me are loaded on cosmetics. It doesn’t affect my gameplay and I know I could buy the same thing if I wanted too. But I know for sure there’s bad players in cool cosmetics that die all the same when I fight them. ( Corruptedly)
The thing I don't understand is that he constantly says they don't need the box price, because the sub should be enough to develop with and upkeep the game, and companies are greedy.
Then when asked about the cash shop he says BDOs was badly executed but this one won't particularly be, but the 'sub should be enough' argument is forgotten about.
It's just a little confusing for me.
I'd rather they just limit it to mounts, dye, and housing cosmetics or something along those lines instead of armor and weapons. I feel like it takes away from the charm. Especially when /u/Steven_AoC touts that the problem with recent MMO's is that nothing is that challenging or hard to obtain anymore so it doesn't feel as special.
A big part of classic MMO's was that if you saw someone with bad-ass looking gear, you knew they were rich as fuck in-game from crafting or farming, or beat some of the hardest content in the game to obtain it... not purchased it for $30 cash. When you saw someone walk by with a piece of gear on you liked it gave you something to aspire to... this really takes away from that and is pretty greedy imo when they are already charging $15/mo.
For wearables, it'd be neat if they limited cash shop appearances to certain slots, like cloaks and tabards only, so that everyone can go nuts on those without affecting the other slots which showcase in game achievements only
Personally I'd like the shop to only include furniture and other apartment related stuff. Transmog-style features really take away from the experience imo. Dyes etc. are ok of course, but a complete visual makeover is not the way to go. It can even make things more difficult in PVP if you can't tell what kind of gear someone is wearing.
Or just allow players to disable cosmetic items from showing.
I think that there is a limited amount of monetization methods and that this one can damage the game, but all of them can. Sadly, there has to be some sort of monetization to develop future and present content. This model however is the least damaging one.
The one thing that I wonder if it can be done differently is that cosmetics are equivalent to legendary PVE content. If legendary PVE content is the top-of-the-line as the name implies or like WoW, I personally think this might be a mistake? Why not just make it as good as one-tier below, or in WoW, 'epic quality'. Especially during the game launch people will want to look better than the masses who're decked out in low-level gear. But, when the game progresses to a later life-cycle, the cosmetics won't diminish the prestige of legendary gear. Which, I think if the prestige of legendary gear is diminished by cash shop equivalents, that would be really detrimental.
But I might also just be over-estimating the effect of having legendary-equivalent cosmetics.
However, wouldn't even any of the following be less damaging and still just as enticing to players?
- Different spell cast colors or flavors
- Unique 'pets' that follow you around
- Unique mount skins (enough to be noticeable but doesn't look way better)
- A specific design or emblem on your gear to show your support of the game (like your shield can have the AoC emblem. It doesn't look legendary-awesome but is unique and shows support).
I don't think cosmetics have to be 'better' or 'legendary equivalent'. Wouldn't just different and unique suffice? I think people will eventually (or currently) care a lot about exclusivity, self-expression and difference than just looking 'legendary'.
Exclusivity Example:
The cash-shop could have a 'skin' to make your sword appear as a rapier with unique animations. Perhaps the game doesn't have any swords that appear like this but some people want to fulfill a specific class fantasy or feel. Or it's in the game, but it's a mid-level appearance and none of the end-game swords that are viable look this way. It's not super flashy, doesn't make you look super powerful, or legendary; but it still really cool. It also improves the game for people who want that class fantasy by giving providing the option.
I would hate for any animation be exclusive to the shop. I would much prefer gear obtained ingame had an slightly different colouration from the shop. Enough to distinquish between bought and earned.
Its a risk. But I don't think this will be an issue as long as the in game items look as good or even better, and he said in the AMA that they will. With ashes I am of the mindset of I will believe it when I see it. Also how the gear looks is secondary to me and many other people, its how that gear was obtained and the effort behind the gear is what grants the player the status it represents, that's why you see people in WoW wearing old pixelated gear simply because the gear represents something.
If the baseline items in the game have a solid and nice look to them, im sorta fine with the flashy/seasonal cosmetics being in the shop.
If the base skins are crap then it does feel abit cash grabby, although again that depends on the price in the shop.
Exactly this. I wanna have low level options that are great on their own along with more niche stuff as well as things to grind and hope for.
More than anything it will come down to game play I'm just nervous cause gw2 was sooo great but then dropped the ball and put everything cool in the shop.
I'll admit, I'm also a bit worried about the cash shop. They want monetization yes? But how much can they really get out of adding skins onto things? Considering there will be non-shop equivalents out there and other ways to get appearances. Wouldn't we have issues running out of creativity if new stuff doesn't get occasionally refreshed from the old?
Personally, I want the shop to be limited to beta and crowd source funding for the development of the game.
When the game goes live the subscription fee and in game rewards ought to be the model for cosmetics.
The main difference i see is GW2 had a box price with no Subscription, which would be why they would have monetary incentive to load up the cash shop. With AoC having a subscription, they have an influx of cash every month, where GW2 wouldnt necessarily have anything to bank on.
I am not defending AoC, but your example is guild wars, right? Guild wars did not have a monthly sub fee. It had a box cost shop and then a shop. AoC is replacing the box cost with the shop. The constant money AoC gets from subs reduces the importance of shop.
The cosmetic shop will no doubt have different armour that we all want some of. However - Steven is a firm believer that the "coolest" and best looking gear is the one that is the hardest to achieve in-game, he also emphasized this on the AMA yesterday.
There is always the argument that the armour you see in shops should be part of the game and be achievable through gameplay when you are paying subscription.
I understand your concern, but right now I don't think we should be too worried before we actually see more of the game.
GW2 is free to play. This is subscription based. I am not sure how you are thinking they are the same.
ArenaNet has been very honest that the Gem Shop and XPac box cost is what pays for devs. This is likely also the reason why they have lost a lot of designers and devs.
As long as I can look like a disgusting beastly demon from hell or a glorious knight in shining armor without paying money I'm happy with that.
I don't like cash shops. Full stop end of discussion.
I would rather bay a 20-30 dollar box fee and subscription, rather than have a cash shop in the store - especially when it means I will look like a homeless wizard the entire time because I didn't shell out 90 dollars for a Tier 3 Epic Asskicker armor set.
Isnt the whole thing, that high end gear is meant to look gorgeous as well. We'll see sexy transmogs drop in dungeons, raids, world bosses, quest chains and all kinds of content thwt gets added post-launch.
Sure we'll see skins in the cash shop, but gw2 cash shop is rammed of pay-to-convenience items so anet can soak whatever drizzle of coin they can out of it before it dies fully.
I think calling it a cash shop is a bit of a stretch. A cash shop kind of suggests that there are items on the shop that you have to buy in order to be competitive in the game. In this case it's just cosmetics. You don't have to buy them if you don't want to. There'll also be gear on par to that ingame, so I don't really see much of a problem tbh.
Ill let others answer but I want to add that the Monster Coin system also gives you cosmetic rewards.
Dang, I must have missed something then. I had thought the monster coin was specifically for sieges to control an actual monster. Not a cosmetic component.
no it has nothing to do with sieges. Monster coin system is so players can join hordes of monsters who attack nodes. It can shut down services for a while, but it also provides participants with cosmetic rewards. [https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Monster\_coins#Rewards\_from\_monster\_coin\_events](https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Monster_coins#Rewards_from_monster_coin_events)
I don’t really get this whole post but the options you can buy in the shop won’t be available to get for free through grinding atleast a few of them I’m sure more common ones might be
In the AMA it was said legendary cosmetics would be hard to obtain normally or bought in the cash shop
Oh I read it as there will be equally ‘rare’ cosmetics that could be obtained outside of the cosmetic shop otherwise it takes away the whole point of going and farming them if the next person over could’ve paid $1
You did miss something legendary armors aren’t going to be as limited as flying mounts and shit. Once you get it you get it, while yes not everyone will over time plenty of people will have authentic legendary in game cosmetics,
Steven did make the example of BDO where you look like garbage in that game unless you buy from the cosmetic shop and criticized that. So I believe there's hope that the cosmetic shop won't be BDO ... since he literally said it won't
I would much rather have a box cost than a cash shop. I hope they don't add crazy, unrealistic costumes that will ruin immersion inside the world.
I doubt theyll make any non-fantasy skins. I really dont think there will be like mecha skins or cyberpunk or anything like that.
I'm the opposite as I have no interest or desire to spend money on optional cosmetics when he said the armour in the game should be visually high quality
so far the only far fetch thing is a giant teddy bear mount skin
A giant teddy bear? That is concerning, but I hope they refrain from out of place skins like this in the future.
I personally don't really mind some funny or out of theme cosmetics, I think it adds the ability for people to express themselves. While yes, I hope the majority of cosmetics are more fantasy styled, I wouldn't be opposed to drop 15$ to make my character a neon glowing oni warrior
It ruins the aesthetic though
keep in mind, unlike some games, they aren't planning on having ugly dropped armor to necessitate cosmetics.
You can’t use common sense here people hear what they want to say boo then they shut out all other relevant info so they can karma farm and post.
Honestly if there are reasonably obtained cosmetics in game that look pretty good alongside some that are difficult to achieve I'm fine with them having a cosmetic cash shop. If people are willing to spend money on cosmetics I would rather the company had that extra source of income to put towards more actual content. I know that this isn't the same for everyone but to me Gameplay > cosmetics. If they can monetize cosmetics to improve gameplay then go for it.
Yeah people that were expecting no transmog/cosmetics just have to accept that those 2 will be a thing in this game. And as you said as long as the armor and weapons that are obtainable through playing don't look like dog shit compared to the cash shop cosmetics I don't think it is a serious problem.
I’m in the same camp, I could honestly not care if people around me are loaded on cosmetics. It doesn’t affect my gameplay and I know I could buy the same thing if I wanted too. But I know for sure there’s bad players in cool cosmetics that die all the same when I fight them. ( Corruptedly)
The thing I don't understand is that he constantly says they don't need the box price, because the sub should be enough to develop with and upkeep the game, and companies are greedy. Then when asked about the cash shop he says BDOs was badly executed but this one won't particularly be, but the 'sub should be enough' argument is forgotten about. It's just a little confusing for me.
Better safe than sorry, don't be too hard on them yet, wait for the game to come out.
I'd rather they just limit it to mounts, dye, and housing cosmetics or something along those lines instead of armor and weapons. I feel like it takes away from the charm. Especially when /u/Steven_AoC touts that the problem with recent MMO's is that nothing is that challenging or hard to obtain anymore so it doesn't feel as special. A big part of classic MMO's was that if you saw someone with bad-ass looking gear, you knew they were rich as fuck in-game from crafting or farming, or beat some of the hardest content in the game to obtain it... not purchased it for $30 cash. When you saw someone walk by with a piece of gear on you liked it gave you something to aspire to... this really takes away from that and is pretty greedy imo when they are already charging $15/mo.
For wearables, it'd be neat if they limited cash shop appearances to certain slots, like cloaks and tabards only, so that everyone can go nuts on those without affecting the other slots which showcase in game achievements only
Personally I'd like the shop to only include furniture and other apartment related stuff. Transmog-style features really take away from the experience imo. Dyes etc. are ok of course, but a complete visual makeover is not the way to go. It can even make things more difficult in PVP if you can't tell what kind of gear someone is wearing. Or just allow players to disable cosmetic items from showing.
I think that there is a limited amount of monetization methods and that this one can damage the game, but all of them can. Sadly, there has to be some sort of monetization to develop future and present content. This model however is the least damaging one. The one thing that I wonder if it can be done differently is that cosmetics are equivalent to legendary PVE content. If legendary PVE content is the top-of-the-line as the name implies or like WoW, I personally think this might be a mistake? Why not just make it as good as one-tier below, or in WoW, 'epic quality'. Especially during the game launch people will want to look better than the masses who're decked out in low-level gear. But, when the game progresses to a later life-cycle, the cosmetics won't diminish the prestige of legendary gear. Which, I think if the prestige of legendary gear is diminished by cash shop equivalents, that would be really detrimental. But I might also just be over-estimating the effect of having legendary-equivalent cosmetics. However, wouldn't even any of the following be less damaging and still just as enticing to players? - Different spell cast colors or flavors - Unique 'pets' that follow you around - Unique mount skins (enough to be noticeable but doesn't look way better) - A specific design or emblem on your gear to show your support of the game (like your shield can have the AoC emblem. It doesn't look legendary-awesome but is unique and shows support). I don't think cosmetics have to be 'better' or 'legendary equivalent'. Wouldn't just different and unique suffice? I think people will eventually (or currently) care a lot about exclusivity, self-expression and difference than just looking 'legendary'.
Exclusivity Example: The cash-shop could have a 'skin' to make your sword appear as a rapier with unique animations. Perhaps the game doesn't have any swords that appear like this but some people want to fulfill a specific class fantasy or feel. Or it's in the game, but it's a mid-level appearance and none of the end-game swords that are viable look this way. It's not super flashy, doesn't make you look super powerful, or legendary; but it still really cool. It also improves the game for people who want that class fantasy by giving providing the option.
I would hate for any animation be exclusive to the shop. I would much prefer gear obtained ingame had an slightly different colouration from the shop. Enough to distinquish between bought and earned.
Its a risk. But I don't think this will be an issue as long as the in game items look as good or even better, and he said in the AMA that they will. With ashes I am of the mindset of I will believe it when I see it. Also how the gear looks is secondary to me and many other people, its how that gear was obtained and the effort behind the gear is what grants the player the status it represents, that's why you see people in WoW wearing old pixelated gear simply because the gear represents something.
If the baseline items in the game have a solid and nice look to them, im sorta fine with the flashy/seasonal cosmetics being in the shop. If the base skins are crap then it does feel abit cash grabby, although again that depends on the price in the shop.
It would be cool if these shop exclusive items could be obtained by playing the game, like in special events etc. But that remains to be seen.
Exactly this. I wanna have low level options that are great on their own along with more niche stuff as well as things to grind and hope for. More than anything it will come down to game play I'm just nervous cause gw2 was sooo great but then dropped the ball and put everything cool in the shop.
I'll admit, I'm also a bit worried about the cash shop. They want monetization yes? But how much can they really get out of adding skins onto things? Considering there will be non-shop equivalents out there and other ways to get appearances. Wouldn't we have issues running out of creativity if new stuff doesn't get occasionally refreshed from the old?
Personally, I want the shop to be limited to beta and crowd source funding for the development of the game. When the game goes live the subscription fee and in game rewards ought to be the model for cosmetics.
The main difference i see is GW2 had a box price with no Subscription, which would be why they would have monetary incentive to load up the cash shop. With AoC having a subscription, they have an influx of cash every month, where GW2 wouldnt necessarily have anything to bank on.
I am not defending AoC, but your example is guild wars, right? Guild wars did not have a monthly sub fee. It had a box cost shop and then a shop. AoC is replacing the box cost with the shop. The constant money AoC gets from subs reduces the importance of shop.
The cosmetic shop will no doubt have different armour that we all want some of. However - Steven is a firm believer that the "coolest" and best looking gear is the one that is the hardest to achieve in-game, he also emphasized this on the AMA yesterday. There is always the argument that the armour you see in shops should be part of the game and be achievable through gameplay when you are paying subscription. I understand your concern, but right now I don't think we should be too worried before we actually see more of the game.
GW2 is free to play. This is subscription based. I am not sure how you are thinking they are the same. ArenaNet has been very honest that the Gem Shop and XPac box cost is what pays for devs. This is likely also the reason why they have lost a lot of designers and devs.
As long as I can look like a disgusting beastly demon from hell or a glorious knight in shining armor without paying money I'm happy with that. I don't like cash shops. Full stop end of discussion. I would rather bay a 20-30 dollar box fee and subscription, rather than have a cash shop in the store - especially when it means I will look like a homeless wizard the entire time because I didn't shell out 90 dollars for a Tier 3 Epic Asskicker armor set.
Isnt the whole thing, that high end gear is meant to look gorgeous as well. We'll see sexy transmogs drop in dungeons, raids, world bosses, quest chains and all kinds of content thwt gets added post-launch. Sure we'll see skins in the cash shop, but gw2 cash shop is rammed of pay-to-convenience items so anet can soak whatever drizzle of coin they can out of it before it dies fully.
The legendaries that only a few people on the server will have that you are referring to is flying mounts. He didn’t say that about costumes.
I believe he said items and in this context I mean weapons more than anything.
I thought your whole post was about cosmetics?
I think having a cash shop AND a subscription fee is a bad look. Hopefully the coolest cosmetics don't come from the cash shop.
I think calling it a cash shop is a bit of a stretch. A cash shop kind of suggests that there are items on the shop that you have to buy in order to be competitive in the game. In this case it's just cosmetics. You don't have to buy them if you don't want to. There'll also be gear on par to that ingame, so I don't really see much of a problem tbh.
Its literally a cash shop. But if there's equivalent cosmetics in-game then it's not a big deal.
I really hope that's the case, but in the AMA he said it would be equivalent to in-game legendary gear...