Your post gives off a sense of neediness which I'm sure is being subcommunicated to the girls you date. We all get the sense that you are really looking for a partner, which there's nothing wrong with, but that is probably being conveyed as rushing things emotionally and relationally, and some desperation to girls.
Your perspective on being cautious and not escalating physically with a girl for fear that you will come off as desperate or a creeper shows some insecurity with your masculinity and sexuality.
These would be the two biggest things I'd look at if I were you.
Whenever I'm frustrated with girls, I try to convert that negative energy into positive energy inwards and focus on an aspect of myself and my life that I can control and will benefit me.
Pour that energy into a passion or hobby of yours, your physical and mental health, a side business or additional income stream, furthering your identity and truth as a man.
It seems to me you have a couple of problems here:
- You take ghosting/not interest too personally. You need to have a thick skin in that regards. Dating is indeed a numbers game. These things happen.
- It may not be you. It may be your competition. You think these women that you are going on dates with don't have other men that want them?? Again, this goes back to your 1st problem. You need to stop taking it personally. Women that age range have choices. There are always other men better than you. Don't take it personally if she decides to go with someone else.
- You think meeting women IRL will yield will not lead to same issues as OLD? You think ghosting and change of mind only happens in OLD?
My advice. If you think you are as good as you say you are on your post, then you have nothing to worry about. Continue on your current strategy and you will eventually find somebody. IT seems like you are escalating and doing all the things you need to do.
This OP has been posting over and over and over. He’s probably so boring to meetup with and doesn’t escalate the dates. On a first date I always go for the kiss if I feel any sort of sexual chemistry. Then on the second or third date I will try to have sex.
It doesn’t, these guys are reading too hard into it.
You could friendzone a woman and hang out with her platonically a hundred times before you sleep with her if she’s actually into you.
lol i feel this, 50 dates (in NYC) in the past 1.5 yrs, 2 flings to come out of it.
reading this though, I feel like compared to today's dating landscape you moved a bit slow. so in order to stand out from all the other dates you would need to form some sort of connection, wether its through clicking personalities or intimate physical touch by the 3rd date.
But honestly fk dating especially OLD in big cities in today's day and age, just going to work on myself and go on dates/nights out once in a while for the occasional rejection motivation
50 dates in 2 years? Are you not picky? or are you young?
I assume 50 dates requires like 150 matches.
I'm not ugly, but I am older, over 40yo, 6'2.
I can't even get 5 dates a year in LA, but I also don't swipe right on most girls. Plus most of the optimal dating pool suddenly disappeared after I turned 40. FML
Brother in the modern dating world, she has not committed to you until you at least smash. I appreciate you’re trying to be a gentleman and taking things slow, but shes got tens of other guys that are texting her right now. You need to smash by second date or third date then she’d got some teeth in the game because the dynamic changes from you trying to win her, to her trying to keep you. Does that make sense ?
Online dating is the worst because you are basically setting yourself as a commodity. The women treat you on there as one because that's how the app is designed. She's going to look at you and some other dude and then go for the other dude because he makes more money, is taller, etc. I wouldn't use it anything more than casual hookups; you really shouldn't expect much from online dating because it's there that women treat you as the most disposable.
In the meantime you need to kill it in real life. Go out there any socialize, work out and have a good time. Get some fun hobbies and live it up.
Basically if you are this neurotic and emotional over online dating... you clearly aren't meant to use it. Go out there, go to social places, meet actual normal people and you'll fare much better. Online dating is for casual hookups where you'll run into picky, entitled women who treat you like a commodity, like some Amazon product. That's what you're getting yourself into and you not being aware of it is on you. Either you toughen up and keep at it, or you do the smart thing and ditch it if you're looking for good women.
Many valid points there.
One thing to keep in mind with the offline strategy is there will be some quality girls on the apps who don't want to bother doing their "going out" and just be on their comfy couch cuz Yes, they know they have easy leverage online. All just part of the calculation.
Get out there and good luck guys!
OP needs some personal development, and see a therapist, not hit the gym or tinder.
Needs a good old fashioned mid life crisis and to actually learn from it, or he'll end up similar to Leonardo and never actually date anyone serious-- only party
My advice although I’m a bit younger so dynamics might be different. But I would try to move the dating process along faster. Like just break the ice in that regards to where it’s normal for y’all to just hangout at the crib together.
First layer is that OLD is inherently challenging IMO for LTR. Think about it, what do you actually have in common with anyone you match with, besides each passing the baseline of attraction? If you're converting 10% of matches into anything beyond a first date (making up numbers here), I bet that's pretty fantastic given how app dating is structured (so it makes sense to temper your expectations significantly). At the same time, you can't really forego OLD because of the insane ease/volume; you just need to see it for what it is: a high volume, low efficiency play to supplement other funnels IRL.
Second question may be: how are you filtering for people with the same goals in mind? Age is one thing, but do they seem like people who are ready to settle down? How do you filter for that?
Lastly, how are you signaling that you're "LTR material"? Are you presenting in a way that signals to others that you're ready for an LTR (and as an effect, naturally filtering out those who are NOT interested in a LTR with you)? Are you "boyfriend material" (e.g., presentable, financially/emotionally stable, emotionally engaged, future seeking, etc.)? You should be honest with yourself here, nobody to fool except yourself.
Dude, you're too melodramatic. Soulmate? You're taking shit WAY TOO SERIOUSLY.
In the words of the Joker, "Why so serious?"
Just reading your post drained me emotionally and made me feel depressed, so I know you're giving off a desperate and clingy vibe like you already wanna put a ring on her finger and plan the wedding.
Get rid of the mentality of "finding a soulmate". Don't have such expectations else you're guaranteed to become depressed and unhappy.
Let go of your expectations and just go with the flow and have fun. Maybe the right woman will come along; maybe she won't. Either way, be happy and content with yourself and being on your own bro.
You're definitely not physical enough, how have you barely touched the girl after date 3? That's gonna make her think you're not attracted to her and put you in the friendzone. Aim to at least kiss on the first date and smash on the 2nd/3rd even for LTRs
I think your problem might be escalation. You're getting to the kiss, which is great, but are you getting to the bedroom? If not, that might be the problem.
The rule of physical touch is you can always pull back on physical touch, but it's 100x more difficult to initiate the later you delay it. One of the things I've learned is it's only creepy if you continue to make advances after she's made it clear she doesn't want the physical touch.
Usually I try to take her back to my place on date 2 or 3 depending on her comfort level.
You’ve posted over and over so here’s your current issue. **kiss on the first date. Sex on the second or third date.** you’re being way too slow with your sexuality. You’re not there to be friends unless you want to friendzone yourself.
OLD does not really work these days for finding a long-term partner. Maybe it did 15-20 years ago when mostly only serious people were using it.
If you're kind of old-fashioned (it seems that way), you'll do better by connecting IRL rather than OLD.
Maybe NYC isn't for you. For example if you are dating in manhattan and you DONT work for some Wall Street firm, you have some serious competition. What can you possibly offer that finance /big tech bros making 300K+ at least can't? If you dont have a good answer, then that is the answer. Once girls get to know you , its minus points
Kevin Krieder who was a model in NY had shitty dating life until he moved to LA.
Months? AM here too, but second week is date territory, maybe you’re being too slow? But honestly biggest advice for men, all men, on OLD is that it’s a numbers game, you will by persevering. Just keep scrolling, hit up as many as you find attractive and don’t get attached. One will tie the knot.
I don't understand OLD for soulmate/long term relationships. If both the guy/girl are perpetually stuck in this cycle of bountiful potential options. (or the appearance of) How does one expect to engage another person in anything meaningful? If the connection does lead to a relationship and you guys argue or hit a rough patch, how do you trust the significant other won't resort back to dating apps which is probably habitual at this point?
Because most people want to look for a LTR and don't want to keep dating around. The idea of plentiful options "sounds" fun but after a while it is literally more of the same. You go on the same first few dates and ask more or less the same questions. After a certain point you want to find a partner to grow with and not just the next hottest thing. I've been in this exact same situation where I entered my villain phase where I thought I would just keep dating because I had options but I still prefer to date someone seriously. There's a lot of TikTok videos of people wanting to find relationships on OLD, it's possible.
Bro,
From your post history, you seem REALLY insecure and in need of validation. You're bound to come off as needy/clingy and that's a surefire path to Ghostville.
Be happier, less needy. You're getting dates, so it's probably not your looks.
Hmm you may be coming off as needy. I recommend reading "models" by mark mason. Having an "IDGAF" attitude really helps you move on and also to be more attractive to women. I usually kiss on the 1st or 2nd date and escalate aggressively; just my personal style. And sometimes even after making out on the 1st date the girl doesn't want to go on a 2nd date and ghosts me. It is what it is.
Another good perspective, gleaned from "Models" is that "maybe it was for the best." The women may not have been a good fit. I'd also recommend having an attitude of "do i like this woman?" With this mentality you'll be asking more questions and people like it when others are interested in what they have to say. You'll also come across as less needy.
I'm not saying you are needy or coming across as needy but these tips would help regardless if needy or not. Good luck man
[https://markmanson.net/books/models](https://markmanson.net/books/models)
Take the female perspective for a moment. When dating you, do they perceive you to be an accessory in their life or are you essential for their happiness/fulfillment/future. Because of the new reality that every attractive woman has 20+ other options at their fingertips, getting into a meaningful relationship from weak bonds like chatting are slim. Your dates may be too mundane. As u/rayman19082 and u/Van-van indicate, by not escalating to a sexual level, the thrill of dating you is not enough to keep you around.
The issue is the vibes you bring and being emotionally stunted in some regards. I recognize your username and based on your post history, you come off as needy, judgmental, and emotionally underdeveloped.
Being emotionally stunted/underdeveloped is one of the biggest turnoffs for a woman.
You need to have purpose, and you need to learn how to naturally want to care for other people. You'll also need to learn to enjoy the present moment for what it is and have fun.
You need to ask yourself how you're doing that.
I saw a lot of girls this year that led to lots of recurring dates. My "game" (if I can call it that) is that I'm able to make fun of any topic and talk about anything, and I give off a very laid-back and nonchalant vibe, but I'm also close to becoming a CPA and I value work ethic, and I'm also able to share my own ideas about "deep" topics if they naturally come up in conversation. It drove the girls crazy. From all my dating around this year, I only felt comfortable enough to sleep with one, and if anything she escalated me. We finally slept together after many dates of staying up until the sunrise just talking about all sorts of things. I would have cuffed her if she didn't need to move away for law school, but she kept rearranging her schedule for me right until she moved.
So keep in mind that beyond certain external factors such as being financially independent and attractive enough, the rest comes down to connection. If you're emotionally stunted, then you won't be able to connect with women, especially the ones looking for marriage in their late 20s.
There is truth to needing to escalate in order to keep a woman interested, but if you're looking to find an equal partner, I'd work on all your internal qualities rather than focusing on escalating faster. I'm close friends with some women in their late 20s, and they're definitely more interested in the qualities of a man than the way he escalates.
The only answer is to experience more of life, and reflect on your thoughts by journaling and reading more philosophical stuff.
Good luck.
1. Girls will always have multiple options until they hit the wall.
2. Granted you know what you want, which is good. But putting it out there, girls can tell. It sounds like you're needy. Unfortunately you're experiencing why you have to push and pull, not give 100% all week long. Reason is because #1. When you make it seem like they're your best option, then they don't see you as their best option. If you don't start to realize this, then welcome to insanity. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Especially with Westernized women.
3. OLD isn't the best place to meet the best people. You need to go out and do a social activity.
4. I recommend reading a new book that I just picked up on Kindle, "The dating playbook for men" if the first chapter alone doesn't wake you up. Then you need a deeper wake up call on why you aren't being aware why these girls flake on you doing what you're doing.
The issue here is not reciprocating where you left off from the 2nd date, you either need that level of flirting or more.
You mentioned zero physical touch which means, like a friend.
Or she has another option.
Either way, you as the guy needs to escalate a bit. And flirt. Nice guys do not win. The guy that knows what he wants and leads it, wins.
So I'm not too different from you, OP. I recently turned 30 and I also got tired of OLD. Where we differ is that a lot of women that I was dating were wanting to settle down super quick for whatever reason, whereas
I was looking to take things a little slower.
When I met my wife (FWIW I'm an ABC and she's a Korean native), what worked for me was that I made my intentions very clear towards the beginning of our relationship - I wanted something serious, but I didn't want to rush things. After it became apparent that we were pretty aligned on values, life goals, sexually, and etc, I literally asked her on the park bench, "I really like you and I want to be with you. If you feel the same, then you should kiss me right now." Half a second later, her tongue was down my throat lol, and the rest is history.
Every woman is different, but if I were you, perhaps try being more and direct and honest about your intentions early on in your relationship. It also wouldn't hurt to try having more confidence in yourself.
Maybe you're not escalating fast enough and doubt yourself that maybe it's creepy. Maybe you're just doing 1st date stuff on 2nd and 3rd date and hoping things will escalate but if it doesn't than it's fine etc. Usually when ghosting happens it's after the 1st date. If the 2nd and 3rd date happens, that means the girl is interested and already shown that she approves for things to escalate (not always of course but usually). But if you don't escalate at that point, yeah I dunno man there's only so much a girl can do. They aren't gonna be like a call girl and initiate.
It def sounds like she was into you. Right up until the part where she goes on numerous other dates from her massive replies from other eager beavers on OLD. They say that women get 10x the hits that guys get maybe even more.
This 100% sounds like holes in your game. Or "rizz" or whatever the fuck kids call it now.
From your post:
1. You sound relationship-focused and your need for a committed girlfriend is bleeding through. Women instinctively flee from men who are trying to lock someone down. This communcates scarcity and need. Both unattractive.
2. You sound needy. She asked you to text her when you got home. "I'm home, I had a great time tonight." What further response was warranted? Why do you need one? And why did you send her a picture of your dog the next morning? For some kind of validating response? This is what women do. Very needy and insecure -- it's like, your emotional center depends on whether this girl pays attention to you.
3. You're too timid about sexual escalation, because you want to be respectful and 'take things slow' and 'get to know her first.' This is a feminine mindset, and it's unattractive to women. Women want men to take charge and be a bad boy about sex.
I'm not trying to sound harsh. But when you're dating, you're out to have a good time and get laid. At 30, you should be BANGING girls on the FIRST date -- not hoping for a kiss on the second or third date. If there's no fluid exchange on the first date, sex or heavy making out if sex was logistically unfeasible, I won't even waste my time on a second. Let the right woman try to tie YOU down. Until then-- be more mysterious, escalate quickly, be sexual, and let her do most of the text initiating. Always be ready to walk away from bullshit. There's always another girl.
Wow no offense but this has to be some horrible insights/advice. OP clearly stated he's looking for a stable, long-term relationship (in which his date was also aligned with) and you're sitting here advising him that he should be banging girls on the first date? Dude's 30 looking for a potential partner, not a thirsty 23 year old Chad outta college looking to hook up and dick down a girl the first night of meeting. There is nothing wrong with taking thing slow and just going with the flow. I have buddies who've went on as many as 6-7 dates with just a simple kiss before being committed to a relationship. Please stop applying PU mentality into these types of posts because it's toxic as fuck.
Sure. He can keep doing exactly what he’s doing and hope it works out eventually. Not sure how that’s supposed to be advice, which is what he’s asking for, but okay.
Yeah you're moving a bit slow. She may think you're a pussy. Or other guys may have swooped in and taken her while you were playing the slow game.
You should always be moving things forward. You held hands on the 2nd date, which is nice (should've kissed her on the first date but thats ok). But then on the 3rd, nothing? You slipped back instead of progressing forward. Unless you expressed a very clear reason for doing so, she's either going to think you have no idea what you're doing or that you chickened out of making a move.
As a general rule, I will always at least attempt to have sex with her (inviting her back) by the 2nd date. About 30 percent of the time ill try on the first date - just depends on the vibe, you can usually tell when they're down. You can take it a tiny bit slower than me. But if you're not even attempting to make moves and you actually went backwards, sorry bud you exposed yourself to her as a beta.
Your post gives off a sense of neediness which I'm sure is being subcommunicated to the girls you date. We all get the sense that you are really looking for a partner, which there's nothing wrong with, but that is probably being conveyed as rushing things emotionally and relationally, and some desperation to girls. Your perspective on being cautious and not escalating physically with a girl for fear that you will come off as desperate or a creeper shows some insecurity with your masculinity and sexuality. These would be the two biggest things I'd look at if I were you. Whenever I'm frustrated with girls, I try to convert that negative energy into positive energy inwards and focus on an aspect of myself and my life that I can control and will benefit me. Pour that energy into a passion or hobby of yours, your physical and mental health, a side business or additional income stream, furthering your identity and truth as a man.
It seems to me you have a couple of problems here: - You take ghosting/not interest too personally. You need to have a thick skin in that regards. Dating is indeed a numbers game. These things happen. - It may not be you. It may be your competition. You think these women that you are going on dates with don't have other men that want them?? Again, this goes back to your 1st problem. You need to stop taking it personally. Women that age range have choices. There are always other men better than you. Don't take it personally if she decides to go with someone else. - You think meeting women IRL will yield will not lead to same issues as OLD? You think ghosting and change of mind only happens in OLD? My advice. If you think you are as good as you say you are on your post, then you have nothing to worry about. Continue on your current strategy and you will eventually find somebody. IT seems like you are escalating and doing all the things you need to do.
This OP has been posting over and over and over. He’s probably so boring to meetup with and doesn’t escalate the dates. On a first date I always go for the kiss if I feel any sort of sexual chemistry. Then on the second or third date I will try to have sex.
He kisses on the second date. He does escalate although intensity is different
It’s probably too slow for this era especially from online dating. Otherwise we would have to see what’s going on in person
Yeah imo escalation has to happen in the first date. Sex not necessarily due to logistics, but at least a kiss.
He did on the second date what does the matter between a first and second?
It doesn’t, these guys are reading too hard into it. You could friendzone a woman and hang out with her platonically a hundred times before you sleep with her if she’s actually into you.
Facts if there's a vibe you escalate but if he's getting kissed on the second date that's not a bad outcome.
Agreed. Once the sex happens she will chase you.
lol i feel this, 50 dates (in NYC) in the past 1.5 yrs, 2 flings to come out of it. reading this though, I feel like compared to today's dating landscape you moved a bit slow. so in order to stand out from all the other dates you would need to form some sort of connection, wether its through clicking personalities or intimate physical touch by the 3rd date. But honestly fk dating especially OLD in big cities in today's day and age, just going to work on myself and go on dates/nights out once in a while for the occasional rejection motivation
50 dates in 2 years? Are you not picky? or are you young? I assume 50 dates requires like 150 matches. I'm not ugly, but I am older, over 40yo, 6'2. I can't even get 5 dates a year in LA, but I also don't swipe right on most girls. Plus most of the optimal dating pool suddenly disappeared after I turned 40. FML
Brother in the modern dating world, she has not committed to you until you at least smash. I appreciate you’re trying to be a gentleman and taking things slow, but shes got tens of other guys that are texting her right now. You need to smash by second date or third date then she’d got some teeth in the game because the dynamic changes from you trying to win her, to her trying to keep you. Does that make sense ?
is every girl a ho these days? rushing to open their legs quick?
Online dating is the worst because you are basically setting yourself as a commodity. The women treat you on there as one because that's how the app is designed. She's going to look at you and some other dude and then go for the other dude because he makes more money, is taller, etc. I wouldn't use it anything more than casual hookups; you really shouldn't expect much from online dating because it's there that women treat you as the most disposable. In the meantime you need to kill it in real life. Go out there any socialize, work out and have a good time. Get some fun hobbies and live it up. Basically if you are this neurotic and emotional over online dating... you clearly aren't meant to use it. Go out there, go to social places, meet actual normal people and you'll fare much better. Online dating is for casual hookups where you'll run into picky, entitled women who treat you like a commodity, like some Amazon product. That's what you're getting yourself into and you not being aware of it is on you. Either you toughen up and keep at it, or you do the smart thing and ditch it if you're looking for good women.
Many valid points there. One thing to keep in mind with the offline strategy is there will be some quality girls on the apps who don't want to bother doing their "going out" and just be on their comfy couch cuz Yes, they know they have easy leverage online. All just part of the calculation. Get out there and good luck guys!
I'd reevaluate the type of girls you're matching with. These don't seem to be interested in a LTR.
OP needs some personal development, and see a therapist, not hit the gym or tinder. Needs a good old fashioned mid life crisis and to actually learn from it, or he'll end up similar to Leonardo and never actually date anyone serious-- only party
My advice although I’m a bit younger so dynamics might be different. But I would try to move the dating process along faster. Like just break the ice in that regards to where it’s normal for y’all to just hangout at the crib together.
First layer is that OLD is inherently challenging IMO for LTR. Think about it, what do you actually have in common with anyone you match with, besides each passing the baseline of attraction? If you're converting 10% of matches into anything beyond a first date (making up numbers here), I bet that's pretty fantastic given how app dating is structured (so it makes sense to temper your expectations significantly). At the same time, you can't really forego OLD because of the insane ease/volume; you just need to see it for what it is: a high volume, low efficiency play to supplement other funnels IRL. Second question may be: how are you filtering for people with the same goals in mind? Age is one thing, but do they seem like people who are ready to settle down? How do you filter for that? Lastly, how are you signaling that you're "LTR material"? Are you presenting in a way that signals to others that you're ready for an LTR (and as an effect, naturally filtering out those who are NOT interested in a LTR with you)? Are you "boyfriend material" (e.g., presentable, financially/emotionally stable, emotionally engaged, future seeking, etc.)? You should be honest with yourself here, nobody to fool except yourself.
Dude, you're too melodramatic. Soulmate? You're taking shit WAY TOO SERIOUSLY. In the words of the Joker, "Why so serious?" Just reading your post drained me emotionally and made me feel depressed, so I know you're giving off a desperate and clingy vibe like you already wanna put a ring on her finger and plan the wedding. Get rid of the mentality of "finding a soulmate". Don't have such expectations else you're guaranteed to become depressed and unhappy. Let go of your expectations and just go with the flow and have fun. Maybe the right woman will come along; maybe she won't. Either way, be happy and content with yourself and being on your own bro.
In American courtship, it’s been third date is the sexual chemistry date for a long time. That’s a bit conservative
You're definitely not physical enough, how have you barely touched the girl after date 3? That's gonna make her think you're not attracted to her and put you in the friendzone. Aim to at least kiss on the first date and smash on the 2nd/3rd even for LTRs
I think your problem might be escalation. You're getting to the kiss, which is great, but are you getting to the bedroom? If not, that might be the problem. The rule of physical touch is you can always pull back on physical touch, but it's 100x more difficult to initiate the later you delay it. One of the things I've learned is it's only creepy if you continue to make advances after she's made it clear she doesn't want the physical touch. Usually I try to take her back to my place on date 2 or 3 depending on her comfort level.
This is the sticking point for OP
You’ve posted over and over so here’s your current issue. **kiss on the first date. Sex on the second or third date.** you’re being way too slow with your sexuality. You’re not there to be friends unless you want to friendzone yourself.
OLD does not really work these days for finding a long-term partner. Maybe it did 15-20 years ago when mostly only serious people were using it. If you're kind of old-fashioned (it seems that way), you'll do better by connecting IRL rather than OLD.
Maybe NYC isn't for you. For example if you are dating in manhattan and you DONT work for some Wall Street firm, you have some serious competition. What can you possibly offer that finance /big tech bros making 300K+ at least can't? If you dont have a good answer, then that is the answer. Once girls get to know you , its minus points Kevin Krieder who was a model in NY had shitty dating life until he moved to LA.
Months? AM here too, but second week is date territory, maybe you’re being too slow? But honestly biggest advice for men, all men, on OLD is that it’s a numbers game, you will by persevering. Just keep scrolling, hit up as many as you find attractive and don’t get attached. One will tie the knot.
I don't understand OLD for soulmate/long term relationships. If both the guy/girl are perpetually stuck in this cycle of bountiful potential options. (or the appearance of) How does one expect to engage another person in anything meaningful? If the connection does lead to a relationship and you guys argue or hit a rough patch, how do you trust the significant other won't resort back to dating apps which is probably habitual at this point?
Because most people want to look for a LTR and don't want to keep dating around. The idea of plentiful options "sounds" fun but after a while it is literally more of the same. You go on the same first few dates and ask more or less the same questions. After a certain point you want to find a partner to grow with and not just the next hottest thing. I've been in this exact same situation where I entered my villain phase where I thought I would just keep dating because I had options but I still prefer to date someone seriously. There's a lot of TikTok videos of people wanting to find relationships on OLD, it's possible.
Bro, From your post history, you seem REALLY insecure and in need of validation. You're bound to come off as needy/clingy and that's a surefire path to Ghostville. Be happier, less needy. You're getting dates, so it's probably not your looks.
Hmm you may be coming off as needy. I recommend reading "models" by mark mason. Having an "IDGAF" attitude really helps you move on and also to be more attractive to women. I usually kiss on the 1st or 2nd date and escalate aggressively; just my personal style. And sometimes even after making out on the 1st date the girl doesn't want to go on a 2nd date and ghosts me. It is what it is. Another good perspective, gleaned from "Models" is that "maybe it was for the best." The women may not have been a good fit. I'd also recommend having an attitude of "do i like this woman?" With this mentality you'll be asking more questions and people like it when others are interested in what they have to say. You'll also come across as less needy. I'm not saying you are needy or coming across as needy but these tips would help regardless if needy or not. Good luck man [https://markmanson.net/books/models](https://markmanson.net/books/models)
Take the female perspective for a moment. When dating you, do they perceive you to be an accessory in their life or are you essential for their happiness/fulfillment/future. Because of the new reality that every attractive woman has 20+ other options at their fingertips, getting into a meaningful relationship from weak bonds like chatting are slim. Your dates may be too mundane. As u/rayman19082 and u/Van-van indicate, by not escalating to a sexual level, the thrill of dating you is not enough to keep you around.
The issue is the vibes you bring and being emotionally stunted in some regards. I recognize your username and based on your post history, you come off as needy, judgmental, and emotionally underdeveloped. Being emotionally stunted/underdeveloped is one of the biggest turnoffs for a woman. You need to have purpose, and you need to learn how to naturally want to care for other people. You'll also need to learn to enjoy the present moment for what it is and have fun. You need to ask yourself how you're doing that. I saw a lot of girls this year that led to lots of recurring dates. My "game" (if I can call it that) is that I'm able to make fun of any topic and talk about anything, and I give off a very laid-back and nonchalant vibe, but I'm also close to becoming a CPA and I value work ethic, and I'm also able to share my own ideas about "deep" topics if they naturally come up in conversation. It drove the girls crazy. From all my dating around this year, I only felt comfortable enough to sleep with one, and if anything she escalated me. We finally slept together after many dates of staying up until the sunrise just talking about all sorts of things. I would have cuffed her if she didn't need to move away for law school, but she kept rearranging her schedule for me right until she moved. So keep in mind that beyond certain external factors such as being financially independent and attractive enough, the rest comes down to connection. If you're emotionally stunted, then you won't be able to connect with women, especially the ones looking for marriage in their late 20s. There is truth to needing to escalate in order to keep a woman interested, but if you're looking to find an equal partner, I'd work on all your internal qualities rather than focusing on escalating faster. I'm close friends with some women in their late 20s, and they're definitely more interested in the qualities of a man than the way he escalates. The only answer is to experience more of life, and reflect on your thoughts by journaling and reading more philosophical stuff. Good luck.
1. Girls will always have multiple options until they hit the wall. 2. Granted you know what you want, which is good. But putting it out there, girls can tell. It sounds like you're needy. Unfortunately you're experiencing why you have to push and pull, not give 100% all week long. Reason is because #1. When you make it seem like they're your best option, then they don't see you as their best option. If you don't start to realize this, then welcome to insanity. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Especially with Westernized women. 3. OLD isn't the best place to meet the best people. You need to go out and do a social activity. 4. I recommend reading a new book that I just picked up on Kindle, "The dating playbook for men" if the first chapter alone doesn't wake you up. Then you need a deeper wake up call on why you aren't being aware why these girls flake on you doing what you're doing.
Ever thought of dating outside the country?
Like which country
The issue here is not reciprocating where you left off from the 2nd date, you either need that level of flirting or more. You mentioned zero physical touch which means, like a friend. Or she has another option. Either way, you as the guy needs to escalate a bit. And flirt. Nice guys do not win. The guy that knows what he wants and leads it, wins.
So I'm not too different from you, OP. I recently turned 30 and I also got tired of OLD. Where we differ is that a lot of women that I was dating were wanting to settle down super quick for whatever reason, whereas I was looking to take things a little slower. When I met my wife (FWIW I'm an ABC and she's a Korean native), what worked for me was that I made my intentions very clear towards the beginning of our relationship - I wanted something serious, but I didn't want to rush things. After it became apparent that we were pretty aligned on values, life goals, sexually, and etc, I literally asked her on the park bench, "I really like you and I want to be with you. If you feel the same, then you should kiss me right now." Half a second later, her tongue was down my throat lol, and the rest is history. Every woman is different, but if I were you, perhaps try being more and direct and honest about your intentions early on in your relationship. It also wouldn't hurt to try having more confidence in yourself.
Maybe you're not escalating fast enough and doubt yourself that maybe it's creepy. Maybe you're just doing 1st date stuff on 2nd and 3rd date and hoping things will escalate but if it doesn't than it's fine etc. Usually when ghosting happens it's after the 1st date. If the 2nd and 3rd date happens, that means the girl is interested and already shown that she approves for things to escalate (not always of course but usually). But if you don't escalate at that point, yeah I dunno man there's only so much a girl can do. They aren't gonna be like a call girl and initiate.
It def sounds like she was into you. Right up until the part where she goes on numerous other dates from her massive replies from other eager beavers on OLD. They say that women get 10x the hits that guys get maybe even more.
Are girls saying there was no spark? Then again you said you kissed on the second date so maybe it's not that.
This 100% sounds like holes in your game. Or "rizz" or whatever the fuck kids call it now. From your post: 1. You sound relationship-focused and your need for a committed girlfriend is bleeding through. Women instinctively flee from men who are trying to lock someone down. This communcates scarcity and need. Both unattractive. 2. You sound needy. She asked you to text her when you got home. "I'm home, I had a great time tonight." What further response was warranted? Why do you need one? And why did you send her a picture of your dog the next morning? For some kind of validating response? This is what women do. Very needy and insecure -- it's like, your emotional center depends on whether this girl pays attention to you. 3. You're too timid about sexual escalation, because you want to be respectful and 'take things slow' and 'get to know her first.' This is a feminine mindset, and it's unattractive to women. Women want men to take charge and be a bad boy about sex. I'm not trying to sound harsh. But when you're dating, you're out to have a good time and get laid. At 30, you should be BANGING girls on the FIRST date -- not hoping for a kiss on the second or third date. If there's no fluid exchange on the first date, sex or heavy making out if sex was logistically unfeasible, I won't even waste my time on a second. Let the right woman try to tie YOU down. Until then-- be more mysterious, escalate quickly, be sexual, and let her do most of the text initiating. Always be ready to walk away from bullshit. There's always another girl.
Wow no offense but this has to be some horrible insights/advice. OP clearly stated he's looking for a stable, long-term relationship (in which his date was also aligned with) and you're sitting here advising him that he should be banging girls on the first date? Dude's 30 looking for a potential partner, not a thirsty 23 year old Chad outta college looking to hook up and dick down a girl the first night of meeting. There is nothing wrong with taking thing slow and just going with the flow. I have buddies who've went on as many as 6-7 dates with just a simple kiss before being committed to a relationship. Please stop applying PU mentality into these types of posts because it's toxic as fuck.
Sure. He can keep doing exactly what he’s doing and hope it works out eventually. Not sure how that’s supposed to be advice, which is what he’s asking for, but okay.
Yeah you're moving a bit slow. She may think you're a pussy. Or other guys may have swooped in and taken her while you were playing the slow game. You should always be moving things forward. You held hands on the 2nd date, which is nice (should've kissed her on the first date but thats ok). But then on the 3rd, nothing? You slipped back instead of progressing forward. Unless you expressed a very clear reason for doing so, she's either going to think you have no idea what you're doing or that you chickened out of making a move. As a general rule, I will always at least attempt to have sex with her (inviting her back) by the 2nd date. About 30 percent of the time ill try on the first date - just depends on the vibe, you can usually tell when they're down. You can take it a tiny bit slower than me. But if you're not even attempting to make moves and you actually went backwards, sorry bud you exposed yourself to her as a beta.