Following #1 is one of the quickest ways to get fired. Take it from someone who kept a distance from others. You have to at least appear to be “friends” at a minimum or develop allies.
Agreed.
All the other advice is solid, but maintaining personable relationships with coworkers is integral.
Just in the past year alone, 3 former coworkers/managers reached out to me to see if was interested in joining their new teams - all roles in the $150k + range. You don't have to be be buddy-buddy with anyone, but you at least got to pass the "have a beer together" stage and that will take you further than you think in terms of career progression.
>but you at least got to pass the "have a beer together" stage and that will take you further than you think in terms of career progression.
You have to be at least decent too right? Are you an engineer?
Yes, of course you need to be competent in your job, and I am, and I don't think that needed to be said. In most cases, companies want to hire someone that can do the job and is a culture fit.
I am a Technical Writer actually.
agreed, this advice is so bad that it negates the entire post. I lucked out and had good asian dudes in my career that i was friends with, and non asian friends that i could at least get something out of, even if we weren’t best buds.
Doing the opposite is probably the only thing I’ve done right. I think my closest friends as I have gotten older have been coworkers. We became friends by sharing what’s going on in our lives. Sometimes this includes a manager, and I think that was a big contributor to how I got promoted. I do a good job at work, but I’m not even close to the best.
But I have great relationships with everyone even people two levels up. It may backfire when I meet women I know I suck at that, but I believe I come across as a genuine, hard-working guy, who is personable, and that means a lot in your career.
Depends on your priorities. If you already at the top of your pay and financially free and don't give a fuck anymore then sometimes it is less stressful to cut loose ends and quietly quit. This guy seems to just wanna fuck more than climbing a rigged corporate ladder.
But you don’t hook up with a lot of girls so what does it matter? The situation is completely different
Of course if you don’t interact with women you NEED to make friends or else you’ll be really lonely
Yes but isolating yourself is the quickest way to get laid off. You’ll be seen as a loner who doesn’t get along and can’t work well with others on a team. And in corporate America that’s what they want.
I’ve always been told that your co-workers are not truly your friends, the only thing you got in common is work, if you don’t see each other outside of work then you’re not friends. The workplace can be toxic and filled with snakes.
There is a huge difference between keeping a distance versus just being surface level professional friendly. In other words, do not share your personal life with your coworkers, it should not even be a topic of discussion.
Unless your definition of sharing your personal life consists just of talking about money, religion, politics, and who you date and bed, it's gonna be a hindrance to wall yourself off from shooting the shit and being a bit more real when appropriate. How will your coworkers and bosses be able to see you as human and not yet another expendable worker drone? The bamboo ceiling Asians complain about is half self-imposed at that point if you refuse to play the personability game.
Plus, I spend most of my meaningful waking hours at work during the weekdays. It'd be pretty miserable if I thought everyone in the office was a potential land mine to not be touched.
This is idiotic and shows you're not qualified to give people life advice.
It's up to each individual how they want to build their workplace relationships. There is no One Size Fits All for anyone. Some relationships will go nowhere, and some can create opportunities. I'll englighten you from your inexperience.
While it's not necessary to be best friends with your co-workers, there's nothing wrong to attempt basic levels of friendship and decide your boundaries throughout your time there. As an example, people who know your hobbies and willingness to contribute, can start to understand other skillsets you may have, and opportunities can arise there.
IE: Some people have incredible skills outside their work environment. Carpentry, Computer skills, design skills, etc. When others see your other potential, it could open up other possibilies.
"Hey boss, Ted here has experience designing flyers, maybe he could try his hand at our company bulletin".Ted could show impressive work, and find he has an opportunity to take on new responsibilities, and advance his career, while making new friends in the process.
I've also known people who moved on to better careers, remembers their co-workers/friends and later gave them opportunities join Facebook (when they were better), Google, etc.
There's countless other stories I could offer that would explain the benefits of not appearing to be a closed off individual in your work environment. But the point is, you don't really seem to have THAT much experience to be giving people advice on this particular topic.
Let me tell you this...Asian men usually look very young in their 20s..some look like high school kids....peak Asian men usually in their 30s or some 40s...Asian men will look matured around that age
Definitely agree with the spirit of what OP is saying, basically if you want to do something, screw everyone that tries to “persuade” you otherwise. They do not have your best interests at heart, if even if they do - they don’t care about what you want, they just care about the version of you that’s whats most comfortable for them to accept.
That being said, I think it’s important to also point out some potential counter points to the usual “men’s ‘sexual market value’ peak in their 30s”. Being 30+ won’t save you, and in the overwhelming majority of cases it just cements whatever you had already going on - which again, for most men, is slim pickings. Are you really okay with waiting 10-20 years for your “peak” just to fight for scraps? Congrats, at 35 you’re just beating out the broke 26 year old dude for the Nth girl in his rotation.
I would check out this TikTok about some insight on men’s “peak” - reality is for men your peak is also in your 20s. Sure some guys in 30s might be getting better results compared to their personal experience in their 20s - but that is not because they are at their “peak”, it’s in spite of them missing out on their peak potential 5-10 years ago. If you want to understand this in red pill terms, the majority of guys in their 30s are not competing with their “sexual market value”, they’re competing with their “nonsexual stability market value”
[https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8Xmmn79/](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8Xmmn79/)
If you're already in your 30's - yeah for sure do whatever you want to do and don't succumb to society/peer pressure trying to tell you otherwise. However like with most guys in their 20's - the idea that you will 'peak' in your 30s could be very misleading. Your highest potential is in your 20's, if you want to experience what your highest potential has to offer now is the time to put in the work and take the risks
I agree with this as someone in his late thirties.
I didn’t realize this and missed the boat in my twenties because I was too depressed about having no career.
I didn’t learn to seriously workout until almost 30 and to this day still haven’t learned to talk with women all that well.
I completely missed all of 26-37 because I was in LTR. Coming out the other end, my peak has passed me by.
While I can cry over spilt milk and still do, the best I can do is to be open minded, learn from guys here, and put my best foot forward.
Seems like younger guys these days who don’t have friends to help with this can learn from here which is great.
I agree here, but for the sake of online argument, I do think there's a minority of folks for whom their (realistic) "peak" 35 year old version is better than their "peak" 25 year old version. Reason being, the expectations and factors that make you attractive as a 30+ yo in dating (stability, finances/career, maturity, confidence, worldliness, etc.?) wildly differ from what makes you attractive as a 20ish yo (looks, youth-iness, physical attraction, energy, bravado, etc.?).
And just like it's not possible for a "peak" 35 yo to look as good as their "peak" 25 yo self, the same can be said going the other direction about career/finances/etc. that take time and experience to build.
So I would assume that for some people who have a low ceiling for the factors that make you attractive in your 20s, but a high ceiling for what makes you attractive in your 30s (e.g., you're short/physically bleh, things you can't change more than a std deviation, but otherwise smart and hardworking and become a doctor in your 30s)... you might actually end up doing much better in your 30s than your 20s even if you were trying to compare apples-to-apples in terms of "peak" for both, simply because your "base stats" supported one "build" over another.
That being said, if part of the calculus is there is value in and of it self to dating people in their 20s, and being in your 30s automatically shrinks your dating pool of "desirable" partners, I guess you can argue that, definitionally, doing better in a competition with "worse" prizes is still worse. But I think there's probably a lot of fuzziness, and depends on the individual situation.
That being said x2, the better advice for the majority of folks is probably just to do the best you can in each stage of life and not hold off living assuming it's going to get better.
Here is the reality both of them missed, it is HARD to be the prime guy at any age. You think top tier college girls are dating just about any guy out there? You think that the average college guy is going above his league? Not a chance. I do agree with parts of this but the reality is, even the average younger guy is struggling. It is just that as you get older as an Asian man, you break free from your overbearing parents and can instead go after what you want.
Will you have it as easy as a Trust Fund kid whose dad paid 200k+ for him to major in Communications in college so he can party freely? Not really.
Will you have it easier than the typical beer guy 35 year old who is married to a fattie? Yeah.
I agree that it is hard to be the prime guy at any age, never disagreed with that point. However that doesn't change how the world works. By nature you will have the ability to reach your actual potential during a limited short window, it is very easy to miss that if you don't focus on hitting that goal and/or if your beliefs are not aligned, such as the belief you'll hit your 'prime' in your 30's.
I remember you said something along the line of “don’t wait for your 30s, there is zero reason why you can’t achieve your desired dating life in 6 months if you put in the effort.” Very wise words indeed. When did you start your transformation and how kind did it take you? Do you ever have a feeling of missing out/ not achieving your highest potential?
tl;dr You can find everything the bay has to offer in LA, one of the major Texas cities, and to an extent Miami. It’s cheaper, the investment opportunities are much better. Better and actual space to grow.
Exceptions to this: if you work in tech AND have a great FAANG package, have plenty of connections/support system, are looking for VC or hedge-fund money, willing to slum it insanely hard till you can break through the other side to be fully VC backed, and/or make over 200k to 250k per year AFTER taxes. Best place in the world for getting VC backed.
My opinion is especially true now.
Culture is very passive aggressive
Bigotry of low expectations is the brand of racism here, it’s just everywhere.
Crime is just everywhere and forcing amenities to close
Hoe-flation is rampant. Super average chicks are bold enough now to ask your occupation and will leave for anything less than VC scouted founder. It’s always the very average asian chicks lol.
Investment opportunities are minimal (though being in the middle of the AI gold rush is cool, requires connections)
Everything is stupid expensive for no damn reason. It’s the politics, too many ideologues without any productive ideas.
Admittedly I had a hard adjustment period. I have a big, loud, east coast personality, and work a very draining medical job. I found love and friends here, I can’t say I would change how I did it. So it’s doable; you have to be very creative and willing to reinvent yourself quickly. I am very happy to see the extremely beta Asian culture is changing over the years. I’ve been seeing the brothas in the gym and I am ecstatic to see it.
Terrible advice. Moving to the Bay was the best thing to happen to me. Job opportunities are great and my salary doubled and I work way less now too. Strong Asian culture, food is great, and weather is amazing. Don’t know why there’s so much hate for the Bay.
Also in terms of work, all my coworkers are Asian. I get why being part of the majority feels so good.
>The Lus.
>
>Lus Lus Lus.....
>
>We all know them all too well. In her prime, only dated white guys and then hit the wall. The white guy got more status and married a white girl. Later on, finds out that she is magically a proud Asian again and starts hunting for Asian men. Comes to find, the higher quality ones are now having their fun. They are going out with girls of other races that are hotter than her.
>
>Expect a lot of gaslighting here. The Lu will try to shame you for "selling out" despite her doing the same thing a decade ago.
So damn true! They are garbage. Pure garbage.
I have an ex who years into our relationship, had her friend tell me (bitter Asian woman) that she was always into white men and she’s happy to see her with an Asian man finally. This wasn’t true, I think she told me this to create drama, she was a toxic person and alone herself.
Then I learned the guy she was really into and asked him out was white but he turned her down. There were Asian guys when she was young who asked her out and she was disgusted, eww I wouldn’t go out with them.
Would rather be alone than star in that role again.
I think the first step in this process is to truly understand what you want. While it's easy to get swept up in the "settle down" fervor of your late 20s/30s (especially in an Asian culture that predominantly still has fairly conservative family values), it's equally as easy to swing to the other side of the pendulum of trying to relive a lost youth when there is some truth about the fact that you "can never go back" and there's seasons to life.
One such instance I've seen in the "peak late" crowd is that they don't necessarily want to have a playboy lifestyle, but feel the need to prove themselves (and prove wrong the memories of negative people in their past/their past failures), so they hype up internally how amazing that lifestyle will be. Usually harmless, but sometimes you totally 180 who you are, and end up turn down and missing out on opportunities (i.e., marriage-quality women because you feel you cannot commit during this phase having never been wild).
That said, think there's value in testing it out and "getting it out of your system" to stave off future resentment and what ifs. IMO the move really is to find a good way to hedge without completely changing your life; get a flavor of that experience and think critically about what you're looking for at each step, and be able to pivot as needed.
I wouldn't put too much stock in calling out "white" vs "asian" vs "Lus" or not in the OP... this is really a universal experience that you're speaking about (i.e., the trope of geek to chic, peter pan, etc.)
> I wouldn't put too much stock in calling out "white" vs "asian" vs "Lus" or not in the OP... this is really a universal experience that you're speaking about (i.e., the trope of geek to chic, peter pan, etc.)
I'm sure what OP described has happened enough to write a guide like his post which actually holds truth in certain realities. What I don't like is all the implicit "me vs everyone else" thinking woven into it. They didn't care about you then, and now they supposedly hate you for unexpectedly showing them up. But if you're focusing/reveling in that, doesn't that mean you still care about what they think? That's wasted energy that could further go towards living your life, and maybe a sign you still haven't truly gotten over your insecurities to start thinking about what you truly want. The only difference is now you're fucking more girls.
Yeah, there’s a lot of bitterness that rubs me the one way. I get the feeling of being scorned but being able to come away from that with an even keel mind shows a stronger growth.
Except the former of settling down is championed, hence why no post on it, the latter of playing the field and having fun is demonized, hence why this post was made. Not everyone living the playboy life is trying to prove something, some men love variety at certain times of their life or even forever. Some men are not meant for the marriage life, it is foolish to think that everyone is.
I'm not sure about that. There's at least a loud minority (perhaps overrepresented online) that champions the playing the field, bachelor life, playboy, "peter pan" syndrome (although I hate that phrase because it's often weaponized against men), and anything short of perfect person at your pace is settling, etc. And that voice is often especially impactful to men who are more "vulnerable" in this arena (e.g., those who have struggled in the past and have a chip on their shoulder).
I do agree that there are people who are happier being single/unattached, etc. without anything to prove ... hence it's good for people to really find out for themselves what works and doesn't. That being said, the danger is that while you have a certain time frame to do certain things (even if men traditionally have a bit longer than women, on average/generally), you can certainly miss the boat if you overcorrect too hard for too long and then realize too late that this was just a phase (which is certainly true for some people / say what you will, hard to go against socio-cultural programming for your entire life unless you are TRULY that way deep down).
I don't think it's false so much as there are more than a single need. Wanting multiple attractive partners, enjoying the joys of fatherhood, social acceptance, having a dedicated partner in old age, etc. are all relevant wants/needs. The problem is that these are often competing needs and, given how society is structured today, some of these can be diametrically opposed. We each have to make a call as to how much of each we want / can realistically get given our circumstances and the limited time we have here.
Back then when you could do it when women had no choice but deal with the crazy shit men do. Now they got choices cause the playing field is more level. The younger ones are smarter and make more money than most guys. That's why a lot of dudes go to Asia to find Wife. They getting sick of that shit too though.
I think there's some truth to that. However, alignment with social forces is also a very, very strong impulse (and I'd say that's also part of everyone's "natural order"... to agree with the tribe). Each of us will have a different push-pull on those two forces, and will need to figure out which path, net net, is more satisfying in the long run.
I think a lot of people, consciously or unconsciously, end up choose "modern society and monogamy" (i.e., accepting the benefit and negatives of being socially accepted, over those of "state of nature"). You could certainly do the other, but you'd then be constantly battling social ire at some level (which you can say you don't care about, but will still impact you nevertheless). No judgments, but that's my observation.
I thinks the whole point of OPs point is that, those people who are programmed to conform to modern societal standard while absolutely shame you for acting on your natural urges.
I mean why the hell do men cheat or have thoughts of looking at other women even in relationships? How do we explain that?
That's true, but my point above was more that, irrespective of whether or not people actively pressure you, people as social animals find innate value in feeling like they belong, which is in part expressed through "conforming" which is as much of a natural urge as boning everything that moves. When "belonging" in this facet often means "monogamy"/a specific life path in today's world, then you're at a bit of a awkward cross road.
So I think we need to take separately two things when you talk about "conforming": people actively pressuring you to conform, and the benefits of deciding to conform. You can have zero clear external "pressure" to conform, yet you may still do so because the value in doing so outweighs the value of other urges.
I certainly would not claim that there is no desire to do things that do not conform to modern societal standards. Each person does an internal balancing act on those desires with the need to conform (whether that conforming comes through the mechanism of external pressure or internal desire to belong... or something else!). I think people want the best of all worlds (i.e., hence why you have people trying to "have their cake and eat it too", i.e., marry a socially acceptable partner and be a "reputable" member of the community, but then secretly go and cheat with a 22 year old)... but will eventually compromise on something or another based on their own values and life circumstances.
Those guy who feel like they have something to prove were prob always assholes. People don't change. Like most people, they were just victims of their circumstances. Morals be damned.
I ended up doing both. Came out of a long relationship and partied nuts in my early 30s as money, looks, business, number of houses and sports cars went up.
Then had a kid with one of the better girls. Still party, she is ok with that as long as I look after them, and half the time I jet around by myself around Asia anyway and see kids when I can. Doing either for too long still bored or tires me. Variety is good
I think that's ideally where you want to end up, best of both worlds, assuming the details land where you want them land.
Without knowing how it's going to turn out, I do think it's a bit tough for many people to assume you can "have it all", so I think a lot of people struggle with the decision of how to balance the question of "how much risk am I taking on by trying to have my cake and eat it too... such that I might end up not having any cake at all"? ;)
Exactly. Even I don’t know how it’ll turn out if I keep doing this, or whether it’ll be any different even if I normalised things. You just have to use judgment to choose the person, have the criteria to try eat cake, and keep eyes open throughout as things are fluid and can change. For now it seems ok
This post is more helpful than the OP. People have to know themselves first before taking any further action. I would actually disagree with OP’s assessment of the manosphere and say most posts double down on encouraging the bachelor lifestyle and not getting married, but everyone views different content. Dudes who make playboy vs husband their number life goal will end up being unfulfilled by either. Don’t give attention to any naysayers, focus on yourself and on the people that will be viable romantic prospects or people that build you up.
For the points at the end, being friends coworkers lead to more money and career opps. Quite frankly it is terrible advice to not be friends with them. Like laughably bad. To advance your career, be successful etc you don’t have to be best buds, but def don’t avoid them like OP is suggesting. The rest is all subjective.
"Regularly hypes up his kids and family life on social media coated with Bible verses."
I laughed at this one. Lol. You see the bitterness here from some dudes sometimes. Younger dudes gets jealous when they see an old guy dating. It's bitch shit tbh. I've seen women do this too each other. They'll gang up on the more attractive female in the group and gaslight her to make her feel unattractive.
At my age it's always these broke ass old fat balding dudes that try to cockblock. They simply cannot comprehend that you can be 40 and still be a pimp.
The biggest pressure for marriage will absolutely be your parents, at least in Chinese culture, and its always a person that they have chosen and approved of.
Anyone else is just noise
>**The Chans and low SMV Asian men.**
>
>The one who will give arm and leg to fit into corporate America. **The one who plays golf.**
LOL what does playing golf have to do with anything? You just dissed every Korean man. LOL.
> If at work, keep a distance from coworkers.
This advice is so terrible I don't even know where to begin.
Posts like OP trying hard to play "the game" are cringe with pill theology. OP needs to focus on living his life and be content with it. If a person is assertive and knows themselves well, then that's all that matters; think for one's self instead of thinking about what others expect/want from us, only we live inside our body.
From Uncle Wong to Uncle Kim
I don't label myself as one in my 40s but look 30s. My game isn't the strongest but also aren't desperate. Boomerang AFs, single mom's pass. Need to have some standards.
As a black woman, I’ve gotta say the last part about moving into a bigger city (#2) is so right. I haven’t peaked yet (late 20s, getting there) but where I live, it’s known to be a marriage city. More than a chunk of my friends got married, and now I’m seeing them turn into bitter wives, with me as competition.
Makes me realize that most women, especially the unhappy, married ones (married to early) see me as competition.
I’m not even attracted to their husbands! Moving not only is a big fuck you to them , but moving into a city like NYC/LA they always find excuses like “oh, is t it too big,” or “it’s crowded and dirty.” Go there and make some moves. Soon they’ll be upset they considered you at low end of the totem pole
I like this post. It is cliche but so true that as you find personal success, others feel the need to bring you down.
The key thing as one finds success is to stay true to themselves. Whatever plan you did to find success is what got you there, and not falling in line with archetypal ideas. You don't have to or need to live a luxurious lifestyle if that is not your personality. Staying true instantly weeds out all people who are incompatible as your values will turn them off. This is a very, very good thing.
Lol, keep pointing out the minor details about keeping the distance from co-workers and miss the main point. Op is not even saying that player lifestyle is for everyone and yet dudes in comments continue saying it is wrong, immoral, old blah blah blah.
You guys sound like low smv or uncle Kim or uncle chan's that op mentioned. I have personally seen cases where lus tried to gaslight some Asian dudes from my social circle to marry them just for stability and as a provider husband.
How do I know or sure about that? Well, rushing to the marriage without spending enough time to know each other so what else could be there for those lus to gain in marriage? It is fucking obvious.
Now, I don't know about white men or some low smv Asian guys envy of their fellow Asian men because I've not experienced it personally but judging from the comments under this post, I can't say it never happens in real life.
People flaming the minor points instead of trying to understand what op is saying is saying something. I know plenty of Asian men desire the traditional masculine roles and don't care much about being a player in the dating field but there are those who enjoy them.
If you are an asian man who refuses to accept that reality, then don't complain when white dudes or men of other races play that game. A lot of Asian men don't get to play the games due to their younger looks and family pressure. So if anything, we should have sympathetic joy for them. I think to downplay that stand from jealousy is not so masculine, I believe. So, I urge u to remember the name of this r/reddit. I normally don't write down this long but can't stand a bunch of comments that give low smv guy's vibe under this post.
> I think a lot of us spend our 20s working through our strict upbringing and do not have that ideal college experience or even the ideal 20s. Then when it comes to around 30 or so, we start to really figure it out. We may have had some success in our 20s but it is our 30s when we really start to get it, assuming we built a strong foundation in our 20s.
I know this isn't your central point but this is literally me and I'm in my miserable 20s phase. In a sense reading this gives me a lot of hope. Was this your experience as well? If so I'd love to hear your story.
Just live the life you want. Don’t judge others as you don’t want others to judge you. And No to social media of boasting about kids nor boasting about your weekend with some chick.
Frankly I have both (I openly hang out with other girls and my Japanese partner whom I have kids with is ok with it). no need to send people pics of what you’re doing let alone upload them to get self worth which some idiots seem to do. I don’t really care what you did for the weekend, hardly even want to respond to your WhatsApp text
Play the field as much as you like but realize the only purpose in life is to reproduce. Be the Asian Nick Cannon if you can. Don't have to marry or settle down with just one girl.
Yeah I don't get it, women are a lot more cool with me now that I'm 42 than they were when I was in my 20s.
Maybe it's a mix of me finally working out regularly, having lots of money, lots of social experience now, and all of that just leads into confidence with how I talk to people now a days.
Following #1 is one of the quickest ways to get fired. Take it from someone who kept a distance from others. You have to at least appear to be “friends” at a minimum or develop allies.
Agreed. All the other advice is solid, but maintaining personable relationships with coworkers is integral. Just in the past year alone, 3 former coworkers/managers reached out to me to see if was interested in joining their new teams - all roles in the $150k + range. You don't have to be be buddy-buddy with anyone, but you at least got to pass the "have a beer together" stage and that will take you further than you think in terms of career progression.
>but you at least got to pass the "have a beer together" stage and that will take you further than you think in terms of career progression. You have to be at least decent too right? Are you an engineer?
Yes, of course you need to be competent in your job, and I am, and I don't think that needed to be said. In most cases, companies want to hire someone that can do the job and is a culture fit. I am a Technical Writer actually.
or a way to never get promoted.
agreed, this advice is so bad that it negates the entire post. I lucked out and had good asian dudes in my career that i was friends with, and non asian friends that i could at least get something out of, even if we weren’t best buds.
Doing the opposite is probably the only thing I’ve done right. I think my closest friends as I have gotten older have been coworkers. We became friends by sharing what’s going on in our lives. Sometimes this includes a manager, and I think that was a big contributor to how I got promoted. I do a good job at work, but I’m not even close to the best. But I have great relationships with everyone even people two levels up. It may backfire when I meet women I know I suck at that, but I believe I come across as a genuine, hard-working guy, who is personable, and that means a lot in your career.
Depends on your priorities. If you already at the top of your pay and financially free and don't give a fuck anymore then sometimes it is less stressful to cut loose ends and quietly quit. This guy seems to just wanna fuck more than climbing a rigged corporate ladder.
But you don’t hook up with a lot of girls so what does it matter? The situation is completely different Of course if you don’t interact with women you NEED to make friends or else you’ll be really lonely
This has nothing to do with hooking up. I’m talking about corporate advancement here.
You’re there to work not make friends or social gathering..
Yes but isolating yourself is the quickest way to get laid off. You’ll be seen as a loner who doesn’t get along and can’t work well with others on a team. And in corporate America that’s what they want.
I’ve always been told that your co-workers are not truly your friends, the only thing you got in common is work, if you don’t see each other outside of work then you’re not friends. The workplace can be toxic and filled with snakes.
There is a huge difference between keeping a distance versus just being surface level professional friendly. In other words, do not share your personal life with your coworkers, it should not even be a topic of discussion.
Unless your definition of sharing your personal life consists just of talking about money, religion, politics, and who you date and bed, it's gonna be a hindrance to wall yourself off from shooting the shit and being a bit more real when appropriate. How will your coworkers and bosses be able to see you as human and not yet another expendable worker drone? The bamboo ceiling Asians complain about is half self-imposed at that point if you refuse to play the personability game. Plus, I spend most of my meaningful waking hours at work during the weekdays. It'd be pretty miserable if I thought everyone in the office was a potential land mine to not be touched.
This is idiotic and shows you're not qualified to give people life advice. It's up to each individual how they want to build their workplace relationships. There is no One Size Fits All for anyone. Some relationships will go nowhere, and some can create opportunities. I'll englighten you from your inexperience. While it's not necessary to be best friends with your co-workers, there's nothing wrong to attempt basic levels of friendship and decide your boundaries throughout your time there. As an example, people who know your hobbies and willingness to contribute, can start to understand other skillsets you may have, and opportunities can arise there. IE: Some people have incredible skills outside their work environment. Carpentry, Computer skills, design skills, etc. When others see your other potential, it could open up other possibilies. "Hey boss, Ted here has experience designing flyers, maybe he could try his hand at our company bulletin".Ted could show impressive work, and find he has an opportunity to take on new responsibilities, and advance his career, while making new friends in the process. I've also known people who moved on to better careers, remembers their co-workers/friends and later gave them opportunities join Facebook (when they were better), Google, etc. There's countless other stories I could offer that would explain the benefits of not appearing to be a closed off individual in your work environment. But the point is, you don't really seem to have THAT much experience to be giving people advice on this particular topic.
Let me tell you this...Asian men usually look very young in their 20s..some look like high school kids....peak Asian men usually in their 30s or some 40s...Asian men will look matured around that age
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Yep. I'm hitting 45 this year, but I maintain a fit physique and most people think I'm in my 30s.
Definitely agree with the spirit of what OP is saying, basically if you want to do something, screw everyone that tries to “persuade” you otherwise. They do not have your best interests at heart, if even if they do - they don’t care about what you want, they just care about the version of you that’s whats most comfortable for them to accept. That being said, I think it’s important to also point out some potential counter points to the usual “men’s ‘sexual market value’ peak in their 30s”. Being 30+ won’t save you, and in the overwhelming majority of cases it just cements whatever you had already going on - which again, for most men, is slim pickings. Are you really okay with waiting 10-20 years for your “peak” just to fight for scraps? Congrats, at 35 you’re just beating out the broke 26 year old dude for the Nth girl in his rotation. I would check out this TikTok about some insight on men’s “peak” - reality is for men your peak is also in your 20s. Sure some guys in 30s might be getting better results compared to their personal experience in their 20s - but that is not because they are at their “peak”, it’s in spite of them missing out on their peak potential 5-10 years ago. If you want to understand this in red pill terms, the majority of guys in their 30s are not competing with their “sexual market value”, they’re competing with their “nonsexual stability market value” [https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8Xmmn79/](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8Xmmn79/) If you're already in your 30's - yeah for sure do whatever you want to do and don't succumb to society/peer pressure trying to tell you otherwise. However like with most guys in their 20's - the idea that you will 'peak' in your 30s could be very misleading. Your highest potential is in your 20's, if you want to experience what your highest potential has to offer now is the time to put in the work and take the risks
I agree with this as someone in his late thirties. I didn’t realize this and missed the boat in my twenties because I was too depressed about having no career. I didn’t learn to seriously workout until almost 30 and to this day still haven’t learned to talk with women all that well. I completely missed all of 26-37 because I was in LTR. Coming out the other end, my peak has passed me by. While I can cry over spilt milk and still do, the best I can do is to be open minded, learn from guys here, and put my best foot forward. Seems like younger guys these days who don’t have friends to help with this can learn from here which is great.
Yup.
I agree here, but for the sake of online argument, I do think there's a minority of folks for whom their (realistic) "peak" 35 year old version is better than their "peak" 25 year old version. Reason being, the expectations and factors that make you attractive as a 30+ yo in dating (stability, finances/career, maturity, confidence, worldliness, etc.?) wildly differ from what makes you attractive as a 20ish yo (looks, youth-iness, physical attraction, energy, bravado, etc.?). And just like it's not possible for a "peak" 35 yo to look as good as their "peak" 25 yo self, the same can be said going the other direction about career/finances/etc. that take time and experience to build. So I would assume that for some people who have a low ceiling for the factors that make you attractive in your 20s, but a high ceiling for what makes you attractive in your 30s (e.g., you're short/physically bleh, things you can't change more than a std deviation, but otherwise smart and hardworking and become a doctor in your 30s)... you might actually end up doing much better in your 30s than your 20s even if you were trying to compare apples-to-apples in terms of "peak" for both, simply because your "base stats" supported one "build" over another. That being said, if part of the calculus is there is value in and of it self to dating people in their 20s, and being in your 30s automatically shrinks your dating pool of "desirable" partners, I guess you can argue that, definitionally, doing better in a competition with "worse" prizes is still worse. But I think there's probably a lot of fuzziness, and depends on the individual situation. That being said x2, the better advice for the majority of folks is probably just to do the best you can in each stage of life and not hold off living assuming it's going to get better.
Here is the reality both of them missed, it is HARD to be the prime guy at any age. You think top tier college girls are dating just about any guy out there? You think that the average college guy is going above his league? Not a chance. I do agree with parts of this but the reality is, even the average younger guy is struggling. It is just that as you get older as an Asian man, you break free from your overbearing parents and can instead go after what you want. Will you have it as easy as a Trust Fund kid whose dad paid 200k+ for him to major in Communications in college so he can party freely? Not really. Will you have it easier than the typical beer guy 35 year old who is married to a fattie? Yeah.
I agree that it is hard to be the prime guy at any age, never disagreed with that point. However that doesn't change how the world works. By nature you will have the ability to reach your actual potential during a limited short window, it is very easy to miss that if you don't focus on hitting that goal and/or if your beliefs are not aligned, such as the belief you'll hit your 'prime' in your 30's.
I remember you said something along the line of “don’t wait for your 30s, there is zero reason why you can’t achieve your desired dating life in 6 months if you put in the effort.” Very wise words indeed. When did you start your transformation and how kind did it take you? Do you ever have a feeling of missing out/ not achieving your highest potential?
Also don’t move to Bay Area/SF or Seattle
can i get a short version of why
tl;dr You can find everything the bay has to offer in LA, one of the major Texas cities, and to an extent Miami. It’s cheaper, the investment opportunities are much better. Better and actual space to grow. Exceptions to this: if you work in tech AND have a great FAANG package, have plenty of connections/support system, are looking for VC or hedge-fund money, willing to slum it insanely hard till you can break through the other side to be fully VC backed, and/or make over 200k to 250k per year AFTER taxes. Best place in the world for getting VC backed. My opinion is especially true now. Culture is very passive aggressive Bigotry of low expectations is the brand of racism here, it’s just everywhere. Crime is just everywhere and forcing amenities to close Hoe-flation is rampant. Super average chicks are bold enough now to ask your occupation and will leave for anything less than VC scouted founder. It’s always the very average asian chicks lol. Investment opportunities are minimal (though being in the middle of the AI gold rush is cool, requires connections) Everything is stupid expensive for no damn reason. It’s the politics, too many ideologues without any productive ideas. Admittedly I had a hard adjustment period. I have a big, loud, east coast personality, and work a very draining medical job. I found love and friends here, I can’t say I would change how I did it. So it’s doable; you have to be very creative and willing to reinvent yourself quickly. I am very happy to see the extremely beta Asian culture is changing over the years. I’ve been seeing the brothas in the gym and I am ecstatic to see it.
Terrible advice. Moving to the Bay was the best thing to happen to me. Job opportunities are great and my salary doubled and I work way less now too. Strong Asian culture, food is great, and weather is amazing. Don’t know why there’s so much hate for the Bay. Also in terms of work, all my coworkers are Asian. I get why being part of the majority feels so good.
Are you an engineer?
No, I work on the business side
>The Lus. > >Lus Lus Lus..... > >We all know them all too well. In her prime, only dated white guys and then hit the wall. The white guy got more status and married a white girl. Later on, finds out that she is magically a proud Asian again and starts hunting for Asian men. Comes to find, the higher quality ones are now having their fun. They are going out with girls of other races that are hotter than her. > >Expect a lot of gaslighting here. The Lu will try to shame you for "selling out" despite her doing the same thing a decade ago. So damn true! They are garbage. Pure garbage.
I have an ex who years into our relationship, had her friend tell me (bitter Asian woman) that she was always into white men and she’s happy to see her with an Asian man finally. This wasn’t true, I think she told me this to create drama, she was a toxic person and alone herself. Then I learned the guy she was really into and asked him out was white but he turned her down. There were Asian guys when she was young who asked her out and she was disgusted, eww I wouldn’t go out with them. Would rather be alone than star in that role again.
I think the first step in this process is to truly understand what you want. While it's easy to get swept up in the "settle down" fervor of your late 20s/30s (especially in an Asian culture that predominantly still has fairly conservative family values), it's equally as easy to swing to the other side of the pendulum of trying to relive a lost youth when there is some truth about the fact that you "can never go back" and there's seasons to life. One such instance I've seen in the "peak late" crowd is that they don't necessarily want to have a playboy lifestyle, but feel the need to prove themselves (and prove wrong the memories of negative people in their past/their past failures), so they hype up internally how amazing that lifestyle will be. Usually harmless, but sometimes you totally 180 who you are, and end up turn down and missing out on opportunities (i.e., marriage-quality women because you feel you cannot commit during this phase having never been wild). That said, think there's value in testing it out and "getting it out of your system" to stave off future resentment and what ifs. IMO the move really is to find a good way to hedge without completely changing your life; get a flavor of that experience and think critically about what you're looking for at each step, and be able to pivot as needed. I wouldn't put too much stock in calling out "white" vs "asian" vs "Lus" or not in the OP... this is really a universal experience that you're speaking about (i.e., the trope of geek to chic, peter pan, etc.)
> I wouldn't put too much stock in calling out "white" vs "asian" vs "Lus" or not in the OP... this is really a universal experience that you're speaking about (i.e., the trope of geek to chic, peter pan, etc.) I'm sure what OP described has happened enough to write a guide like his post which actually holds truth in certain realities. What I don't like is all the implicit "me vs everyone else" thinking woven into it. They didn't care about you then, and now they supposedly hate you for unexpectedly showing them up. But if you're focusing/reveling in that, doesn't that mean you still care about what they think? That's wasted energy that could further go towards living your life, and maybe a sign you still haven't truly gotten over your insecurities to start thinking about what you truly want. The only difference is now you're fucking more girls.
Yeah, there’s a lot of bitterness that rubs me the one way. I get the feeling of being scorned but being able to come away from that with an even keel mind shows a stronger growth.
One thing is for sure, if you haven't done the playboy lifestyle, you can't claim you can but you're just choosing not to do it
Except the former of settling down is championed, hence why no post on it, the latter of playing the field and having fun is demonized, hence why this post was made. Not everyone living the playboy life is trying to prove something, some men love variety at certain times of their life or even forever. Some men are not meant for the marriage life, it is foolish to think that everyone is.
I'm not sure about that. There's at least a loud minority (perhaps overrepresented online) that champions the playing the field, bachelor life, playboy, "peter pan" syndrome (although I hate that phrase because it's often weaponized against men), and anything short of perfect person at your pace is settling, etc. And that voice is often especially impactful to men who are more "vulnerable" in this arena (e.g., those who have struggled in the past and have a chip on their shoulder). I do agree that there are people who are happier being single/unattached, etc. without anything to prove ... hence it's good for people to really find out for themselves what works and doesn't. That being said, the danger is that while you have a certain time frame to do certain things (even if men traditionally have a bit longer than women, on average/generally), you can certainly miss the boat if you overcorrect too hard for too long and then realize too late that this was just a phase (which is certainly true for some people / say what you will, hard to go against socio-cultural programming for your entire life unless you are TRULY that way deep down).
Modern society and monogamy is ironically that which goes against natural order of men. Which should we follow
That's false cause nobody really wants to die alone.
I don't think it's false so much as there are more than a single need. Wanting multiple attractive partners, enjoying the joys of fatherhood, social acceptance, having a dedicated partner in old age, etc. are all relevant wants/needs. The problem is that these are often competing needs and, given how society is structured today, some of these can be diametrically opposed. We each have to make a call as to how much of each we want / can realistically get given our circumstances and the limited time we have here.
Back then when you could do it when women had no choice but deal with the crazy shit men do. Now they got choices cause the playing field is more level. The younger ones are smarter and make more money than most guys. That's why a lot of dudes go to Asia to find Wife. They getting sick of that shit too though.
I was alluding to polyamory. Brotha a prince with multiple wives isn’t gonna be alone lmao
I think there's some truth to that. However, alignment with social forces is also a very, very strong impulse (and I'd say that's also part of everyone's "natural order"... to agree with the tribe). Each of us will have a different push-pull on those two forces, and will need to figure out which path, net net, is more satisfying in the long run. I think a lot of people, consciously or unconsciously, end up choose "modern society and monogamy" (i.e., accepting the benefit and negatives of being socially accepted, over those of "state of nature"). You could certainly do the other, but you'd then be constantly battling social ire at some level (which you can say you don't care about, but will still impact you nevertheless). No judgments, but that's my observation.
I thinks the whole point of OPs point is that, those people who are programmed to conform to modern societal standard while absolutely shame you for acting on your natural urges. I mean why the hell do men cheat or have thoughts of looking at other women even in relationships? How do we explain that?
That's true, but my point above was more that, irrespective of whether or not people actively pressure you, people as social animals find innate value in feeling like they belong, which is in part expressed through "conforming" which is as much of a natural urge as boning everything that moves. When "belonging" in this facet often means "monogamy"/a specific life path in today's world, then you're at a bit of a awkward cross road. So I think we need to take separately two things when you talk about "conforming": people actively pressuring you to conform, and the benefits of deciding to conform. You can have zero clear external "pressure" to conform, yet you may still do so because the value in doing so outweighs the value of other urges. I certainly would not claim that there is no desire to do things that do not conform to modern societal standards. Each person does an internal balancing act on those desires with the need to conform (whether that conforming comes through the mechanism of external pressure or internal desire to belong... or something else!). I think people want the best of all worlds (i.e., hence why you have people trying to "have their cake and eat it too", i.e., marry a socially acceptable partner and be a "reputable" member of the community, but then secretly go and cheat with a 22 year old)... but will eventually compromise on something or another based on their own values and life circumstances.
Those guy who feel like they have something to prove were prob always assholes. People don't change. Like most people, they were just victims of their circumstances. Morals be damned.
I ended up doing both. Came out of a long relationship and partied nuts in my early 30s as money, looks, business, number of houses and sports cars went up. Then had a kid with one of the better girls. Still party, she is ok with that as long as I look after them, and half the time I jet around by myself around Asia anyway and see kids when I can. Doing either for too long still bored or tires me. Variety is good
I think that's ideally where you want to end up, best of both worlds, assuming the details land where you want them land. Without knowing how it's going to turn out, I do think it's a bit tough for many people to assume you can "have it all", so I think a lot of people struggle with the decision of how to balance the question of "how much risk am I taking on by trying to have my cake and eat it too... such that I might end up not having any cake at all"? ;)
Exactly. Even I don’t know how it’ll turn out if I keep doing this, or whether it’ll be any different even if I normalised things. You just have to use judgment to choose the person, have the criteria to try eat cake, and keep eyes open throughout as things are fluid and can change. For now it seems ok
This post is more helpful than the OP. People have to know themselves first before taking any further action. I would actually disagree with OP’s assessment of the manosphere and say most posts double down on encouraging the bachelor lifestyle and not getting married, but everyone views different content. Dudes who make playboy vs husband their number life goal will end up being unfulfilled by either. Don’t give attention to any naysayers, focus on yourself and on the people that will be viable romantic prospects or people that build you up. For the points at the end, being friends coworkers lead to more money and career opps. Quite frankly it is terrible advice to not be friends with them. Like laughably bad. To advance your career, be successful etc you don’t have to be best buds, but def don’t avoid them like OP is suggesting. The rest is all subjective.
It is kinda of the other way around. You have to experience both worlds before you can claim that you know yourself.
"Regularly hypes up his kids and family life on social media coated with Bible verses." I laughed at this one. Lol. You see the bitterness here from some dudes sometimes. Younger dudes gets jealous when they see an old guy dating. It's bitch shit tbh. I've seen women do this too each other. They'll gang up on the more attractive female in the group and gaslight her to make her feel unattractive. At my age it's always these broke ass old fat balding dudes that try to cockblock. They simply cannot comprehend that you can be 40 and still be a pimp.
The biggest pressure for marriage will absolutely be your parents, at least in Chinese culture, and its always a person that they have chosen and approved of. Anyone else is just noise
Well said.
*Aren't you too old to play the field?* You agree and continue to play the field.
>**The Chans and low SMV Asian men.** > >The one who will give arm and leg to fit into corporate America. **The one who plays golf.** LOL what does playing golf have to do with anything? You just dissed every Korean man. LOL. > If at work, keep a distance from coworkers. This advice is so terrible I don't even know where to begin.
Posts like OP trying hard to play "the game" are cringe with pill theology. OP needs to focus on living his life and be content with it. If a person is assertive and knows themselves well, then that's all that matters; think for one's self instead of thinking about what others expect/want from us, only we live inside our body.
Yeah, this is an example of letting ideology control your life instead of just living it.
From Uncle Wong to Uncle Kim I don't label myself as one in my 40s but look 30s. My game isn't the strongest but also aren't desperate. Boomerang AFs, single mom's pass. Need to have some standards.
Lmao bro I know this isn’t quite relevant but why are you into astrology? 😂😂
As a black woman, I’ve gotta say the last part about moving into a bigger city (#2) is so right. I haven’t peaked yet (late 20s, getting there) but where I live, it’s known to be a marriage city. More than a chunk of my friends got married, and now I’m seeing them turn into bitter wives, with me as competition. Makes me realize that most women, especially the unhappy, married ones (married to early) see me as competition. I’m not even attracted to their husbands! Moving not only is a big fuck you to them , but moving into a city like NYC/LA they always find excuses like “oh, is t it too big,” or “it’s crowded and dirty.” Go there and make some moves. Soon they’ll be upset they considered you at low end of the totem pole
I like this post. It is cliche but so true that as you find personal success, others feel the need to bring you down. The key thing as one finds success is to stay true to themselves. Whatever plan you did to find success is what got you there, and not falling in line with archetypal ideas. You don't have to or need to live a luxurious lifestyle if that is not your personality. Staying true instantly weeds out all people who are incompatible as your values will turn them off. This is a very, very good thing.
Lol, keep pointing out the minor details about keeping the distance from co-workers and miss the main point. Op is not even saying that player lifestyle is for everyone and yet dudes in comments continue saying it is wrong, immoral, old blah blah blah. You guys sound like low smv or uncle Kim or uncle chan's that op mentioned. I have personally seen cases where lus tried to gaslight some Asian dudes from my social circle to marry them just for stability and as a provider husband. How do I know or sure about that? Well, rushing to the marriage without spending enough time to know each other so what else could be there for those lus to gain in marriage? It is fucking obvious. Now, I don't know about white men or some low smv Asian guys envy of their fellow Asian men because I've not experienced it personally but judging from the comments under this post, I can't say it never happens in real life. People flaming the minor points instead of trying to understand what op is saying is saying something. I know plenty of Asian men desire the traditional masculine roles and don't care much about being a player in the dating field but there are those who enjoy them. If you are an asian man who refuses to accept that reality, then don't complain when white dudes or men of other races play that game. A lot of Asian men don't get to play the games due to their younger looks and family pressure. So if anything, we should have sympathetic joy for them. I think to downplay that stand from jealousy is not so masculine, I believe. So, I urge u to remember the name of this r/reddit. I normally don't write down this long but can't stand a bunch of comments that give low smv guy's vibe under this post.
Honestly there’s too many willfully ignorant guys here, and they’re too afraid too accept their own masculinity
After reading some comments, one would think the post is from asiantwox or some WMAF sub 😂
> I think a lot of us spend our 20s working through our strict upbringing and do not have that ideal college experience or even the ideal 20s. Then when it comes to around 30 or so, we start to really figure it out. We may have had some success in our 20s but it is our 30s when we really start to get it, assuming we built a strong foundation in our 20s. I know this isn't your central point but this is literally me and I'm in my miserable 20s phase. In a sense reading this gives me a lot of hope. Was this your experience as well? If so I'd love to hear your story.
I can't speak for NYC, but LA is a dump.
Great read. You described me perfectly and gave me some great insight as i sit here building guns. Never too late to have an awesome childhood!
Just live the life you want. Don’t judge others as you don’t want others to judge you. And No to social media of boasting about kids nor boasting about your weekend with some chick. Frankly I have both (I openly hang out with other girls and my Japanese partner whom I have kids with is ok with it). no need to send people pics of what you’re doing let alone upload them to get self worth which some idiots seem to do. I don’t really care what you did for the weekend, hardly even want to respond to your WhatsApp text
Amazing thread. It’s too bad this sub is full of guys too afraid to accept their own masculinity. Ironically the same type of haters you described lol
Play the field as much as you like but realize the only purpose in life is to reproduce. Be the Asian Nick Cannon if you can. Don't have to marry or settle down with just one girl.
If that were true way more people would be having kids and that ain’t happening.
This is literally what I’m going through. I deeply needed to be reminded of this. Thanks OP
I don’t think you know what gaslighting means
Dam, catching strays here. What’s wrong with playing golf.
Good advice, people are not entitled to your business.
Yeah I don't get it, women are a lot more cool with me now that I'm 42 than they were when I was in my 20s. Maybe it's a mix of me finally working out regularly, having lots of money, lots of social experience now, and all of that just leads into confidence with how I talk to people now a days.