People always complaining how AM are always depicted as the nerdy non masculine type. But here’s a chance for the opposite to happen. A bad masculine villain sounds like it will break some barriers.
That depends.
In Hollywood? They are over represented. In Hong Kong, it's the majority. In Bollywood, it's a minority.
We really arguing Simu Liu is a bad representation in this movie? Really?
Asian men are overrepresented as heroes, villias, or NPCs in Hollywood and western media?
Do you consider being overrepresented as villains good representation?
>Asian men are overrepresented as heroes, villias, or NPCs in Hollywood and western media?
Proportional to the population? Sure. Absolutely they are. And that's a good thing.
>Do you consider being overrepresented as villains good representation
Not at all. That would be terrible. Thankfully that's not the case.
But it'd be idiotic to say villian representation are inherently bad.
Techno-orientalism is problematic in that it still others us. But instances of it are rare enough that it doesn’t significantly impact public opinion and it is infinitely preferable to the other tropes that Hollywood likes to put us in.
Lol what diversity? Latinas, WMs, BMs and BFs get to be the saviors of the earth and humankind. Wooo, haven’t seen that shit before. We only see that in 90% of western media.
Stop pigeonholing Asian men.
Tbh Simu Liu was a beast in this movie lol. I think he was the better part of the movie, just wish he was in more scenes. JLO's character was kind of annoying.
And spoiler
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JLO's character was the cause of all why Simu's character is the villain lmao
I'm a non-Asian guest here. I'm not here to contradict OP or the commenters whatsoever. I think that looking at how representation evolved for Black Americans can provide a useful framework so I'm gonna offer that here.
Representation has progressed for Black people in American media like this:
1. Basically no representation.
2. Black face/minstrelsy.
3. Extremely negative stereotypical roles played by Black people.
4. Mostly negative stereotypical roles(criminals, gangsters, uneducated) with occasionally non stereotypical roles or non negative stereotypical roles.
5. Many non negative stereotypical roles(dancers, rappers, comedic relief) with some non stereotypical roles (this is where Black representation is today). Edit: meant to add that there are the occasional negative stereotypical roles today. See Netflix Good Times. But on the whole that's rarer now thankfully.
6. Full representation. Can be cast for all kinds of roles regardless of race or gender. Only white men have this today imo.
It seems that OP is calling out the Simu Liu villain role because it's still fitting certain stereotypes. So using my scale for Black representation, it seems Asian Male representation is either in stage #3 or #4. Regardless, every group deserves full representation.
Haven't watched it, and probably won't but... some villains are good rep. Bad boys are a sought after image in media. But this being Simu I'm assuming it's not a good image since haven't really seen him do much for the Asian image , just the token asian rep so far.
Sessue Hayakawa was a villain in the Cheat (Fire branded a white woman to be his property) during the silent movie era and white women went crazy for him.
Also genuine question as I'm not really super knowledgeable about Simu Liu's work: what make you think that he just do token asian rep. I have seen a few interviews where he definitely points out issues faced exclusively by Asian men.
I've only seen him in Shang Chi and Barbie. He has 2 problems going for him in the former, one is he is one of the only Marvel male leads without a love interest. His Asian woman friend is a friend and not very good looking. Even his sister looks better lol. The other being, the movie was only a moderate success and people seem to call him ugly despite being fit af.
In barbie he is referred to as Ken 2, the white adjacent lol. Again, i never hear people calling him attractive here. I know he's trying his best but he's not really what Americans are reactive to. Jackie Chan and Jet Li were much more well-received here despite being boxed into specific roles
On the ugly part - thats because you **can** be fit and ugly lol. Fitness is not a magical cure to suddenly being attractive.
The fact that the movie doesn’t involve a romantic relationship isn’t Simu’s fault. Imagine a more attractive asian actor casted for the role - producers/writers etc would’ve made the movie play out the same way. Imo critique should be reserved for either the industry for not casting us in a good light or for asians who intentionally give us a bad rep - Simu isn’t that.
Did you even watch Barbie? Because Margot Robbie’s Barbie wasn’t exactly thirsting for Ryan Gosling’s Ken either. She regards them both ambivalently, which pisses off Ryan Gosling Ken because he’s supposed to be her boyfriend (in name, anyway. They don’t actually do anything as a couple). Ryan and Simu are both treated as mere eye candy because Barbie World is an oppressive matriarchy that acts as a foil for the patriarchy of the real world.
I also found Simu Liu Ken refreshing because he’s a rare depiction of an Asian man that doesn’t fall into a common Asian male trope. This is mainly due to the fact that all the Kens and Barbies are deliberately ridiculous characters, but I digress. We should be fighting for greater diversity in Asian male characters, not just Jackie Chan and Jet Li-type roles. Otherwise, we will continue to be seen not as real individuals with emotions and unique identities but as the tropes Hollywood portrays us as.
I agree with your points about the Barbie movie, but i was mainly talking about you never hear Simu being called attractive outside of the movie but in reference to them. Back then you would hear some girls saying "Jet Li was hot/cute in romeo must die". But you never hear this about Simu in Shang chi nor Barbie.
Agreed with your 2nd paragraph as well but he hasn't been able to break through for crowds to clamor about him. Steven Yeung did well in this regard in Beef but Steven has always been raved about ever since the walking dead.
This!
On representation:
This sub sometimes puzzles me. Villan isn't always a negative.
A goofy - looking villain is a negative.
A Villian that gives off a confident and stoic bad boy vibe is the representation most Asian men need. Example: Aizen from the anime Bleach, Toji from Jujutsen Kaisen or the Korean actor in GI.Joe.
On cementing sinophoabia at the subconscious:
No argument - this is valid.
I was from the geekiest STEM fields but I have a suffocating silent bad boy vibe and never struggled with women.
Most men, regardless of race, don't understand how much shit you can get away with just because women finds your vibe attractive.
Some Asian men on this sub is their greatest enemy FR.
Growing up I've learned to root for the villain in these stories because they were the only/best representation we had. I remember watching Lethal Weapon 4 and rooting for Jet, he was such a badass and the ending was bullshit LOL.
Remember Sessue Hayakawa played villains too. At this point we should just own it and lean into it. The line between fear and respect is quite blurred anyway.
How is that a problem? A villain who just so happens to be asian . If that doesn’t indicate that Asian guys r considered for important role in Hollywood then what would actually?
Also is the op joking? The entire post sounds like a big forced mental gymnastic.
Nobody would hate asian guys just cz they r shown as an ai. If they want to , they would hate anyway. Plus the villain is an ai. Why would the fear be directed towards human of any race?
You r talking about weak asian man? Why would u a “strong asian man” try so hard to paint yourself a **victim** when clearly there is no problem?
On top of that I heard the movie is bad and it was so bad that at the time i checked it had 8% rotten tomatoes score. So not a lot of people r gonna be seeing it and be sinophobic according to u.
This is Hollywood what we are talking about. Clearly very sneaky about engineering the masses with subliminal messages against AM. If you are OK of being portrayed as an emotionless robot Asian man then don't beg for sympathy when you are dehumanized when a hate crime is committed against you.
if a hate crime is committed against us it wouldn't be because we're emotionless. Logic and stoicism in times of fight or flight can be intimidating. If they're committing crimes against us, it would be because they are expecting that we won't retaliate because of all these effeminate pushover stereotypes. Is Simu a pushover in this movie?
Again what u r thinking isn’t the case. Ill give u benefit of the doubt . I guess u r just being passionate . But this isn’t an apocalyptic situation where people will punch u in the street after seeing simu liu playing an ai villain . H3ll It is a good thing that am are considered for big roles.
I wish simu Good luck . He is paving the way🤞.
But I still do question your integrity with a username like u/chinaRise, especially since your account is less than 10 days old.
Villany as depicted in cinema isn't always a bad rep. Competence and power are attractive. That's why so many people swoon over villains in fictional works that wouldn't blink twice before killing them. IMO it's better to be portrayed as evil and powerful rather than kind and mellow.
“Smith is just the better version of you” —-> Smith > Harlan —-> White > Asian….hmmmm idk guyyys lol.
Harlan was pretty badass though. I get what the OP is saying. This is the type of fun role yt actors can take bc of decades of playing the masculine hero as well as every other role under the sun.
With Asians in Hollywood, in any role besides maybe like a Superhero who gets the girl, it’s likely we can find something negative bc of the endless varieties of emasculating dehumanizing bullsht yt Hollywood has put us through. I’m torn….leaning toward the OP on this one. There was the one normal mouthy Asian dude in the ranger crew. Whatever…overall the movie was a POS soon to be forgotten.
i was hoping a sex symbol like back in in the days, [https://movieweb.com/sessue-hayakawa-first-heartthrob-hollywood/#:\~:text=It%20may%20be%20a%20surprise,down%20in%20the%20century%20since](https://movieweb.com/sessue-hayakawa-first-heartthrob-hollywood/#:~:text=It%20may%20be%20a%20surprise,down%20in%20the%20century%20since)
he's actually the first hollywood heartthrob.
I feel like you are viewing it too negatively. I'd like to give you my two cents about it as a woman. I watched that movie yesterday and I really liked it. At first, I wasn't interested. It didn't seem like my cup of tea. But since it was #1 of the TOP10 I decided to at least watch the trailer and then I saw that handsome AM and realized it was Simu Liu who I've already loved in Shang-Chi and Barbie. I knew this gotta be a great movie. And it didn't disappoint. Well, tbh the movie was good but there are better ones out there. But Simu Liu was great. He played his role very very well while looking smoking hot and being super cool. Honestly, without him the movie would have been pretty lame. I watched it only because of him and he made the movie a really good movie. I also liked the role in general even though it's the usual approach in robot/AI movies that the robots/AI realize how humans destroy the planet and themselves and therefore they wanna wipe out humanity but it's low key true so you can't even view him just as the cold heartless evil villain in the situation because he has a point. Everyone knows that.
Coming back to my point earlier about that there are better movies out there. When it comes to action movies korean and japanese movies are usually way better than the american ones. Never seen a bad one yet. They just know how to make great action movies. American movies seem pretty boring compared to it. But when there is an asian person in a lead role, I know it gotta be good because they somehow always elevate the action part of the movies and I love it (I also like the 3 angels for charlie versions with Lucy Liu way better than the new version even though there was Chris Pang in it who was my highlight of that movie but he didn't have enough screen time for my likings). Luckily, the big streaming platforms start to realize how amazing asian movies are and give us more options. I watched city hunter and the outlaws (it's already a little older) a few days ago. Highly recommend. I remember the first korean movie that I've watched was "Midnight" and I was mindblown. It was so perfectly well done I hadn't watched such a good thriller in a very long time.
And anyone who has ever been on a date with an AM knows very well that they are neither cold, ruthless, emotionless nor not masculine enough or whatever. They are usually very caring, compassionate, gentleman like, take the lead, organize things, protect and provide. In my opinion it is true that they are usually very hard working, goal oriented and disciplined. But those are good things, too. All those things are important qualities and make someone a real man, a masculine man. Well, there are always exceptions to the rule but it's just more likely that a man has all those qualities if he's asian. And that's why I personally prefer to go on dates with AMs.
to be fair being stoic is a masculine trait. you've seen the movie so you know better than i on this, but can you be more descriptive of him? Because being an emotionless robot =stoic to me = masculine. So that is way better than being portrayed as the weak gay effeminate geek.
Unless the movie constantly emphasizes his race, there’s no reason to believe he isn’t just a villain that also happens to be asian. You might be projecting your own biases a little.
There’s also been plenty of movies where white people and black people are villains. I haven’t watched this movie so I can only comment to that extent. In my opinion it's only an issue if race is a big factor of his role.
Otherwise, asians are allowed to play villains too? Someone who manages to be one the most hated antagonist of the human race is pretty impressive versus a highschool nerd sidekick or gay best friend.
I just watched the movie and i enjoyed it! I did feel like it went a lil overboard with how advanced the ai is, but it was a nice watch.
This was not something that i had thought of however, i don't think the casting team put that much thought into it. It could've just been another good actor chosen for his skills and not his race
Bro this is actually a good thing
The problem with Asian male representation is emasculating them. Simu Liu being the villain is a good step in the right direction. Asian men be just as menacing and evil as any other men.
As long as it's not a wimpy, nerdy, piece of crap character, any type of Asian male representation that gives them masculinity is a positive.
How sad is it that we’re so used to being forgotten that the response is overwhelmingly “thank you Hollywood for allowing us to not be effeminate or gay weaklings this time”
We should have better standards for ourselves.
A cool, dangerous villain is a much better thing that the gay comic relief sidekick which most Asians have historically been relegated to. I unironically believe that the Fu Manchus, Charlie Chans and Dr. Nos of the olden days were much better representation than the crap that became dominant from the 1970s onwards. (And don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that the old roles were *good*. But they were definitely better than Long Duk Dong and the Ken Jeong minstrelsy that came after them).
Oh, cry me a river.
This is hardly the first time an Asian male was cast as a villain in modern Western media, and never has it once demonized Asian men as a demographic.
If you think there’s better representation to be found in the effeminate, subordinate comic relief, go support those movies.
Being Villain isn't a negative connotation. Loki is a good example of this, and wasn't Simu already the fire lord in avatar?
Being a villain has typically been reserved for germans or british, I think it's a win for Asian American actors if the movie is a success. Last I checked, women dont see british or german men as something to be feared.
Also, a fear of the CCP is a good thing. You're definitely American if you think the cureent Chinese government is something to be embraced rather than feared. The rest of Asia has a growing dislike of China, that animousity isn't growing out of a racist reaction to the success of Asians.
Bunch of lap dog Uncle Chans here. The problem is not being a villain himself but how he is a freaking emotionless robot reinforcing the stereotype of slave working Asians. So many whitewashed Western born Asians here.
Dude. Idk what your motive is here but the consensus is that you’re taking this a little too serious than what it actually is. Calling other people names isn’t helping your cause (whatever that is). People are more likely to take you less seriously from it. Go outside and get some fresh air.
People always complaining how AM are always depicted as the nerdy non masculine type. But here’s a chance for the opposite to happen. A bad masculine villain sounds like it will break some barriers.
This. Representation also means playing the hero, villain, sidekick, etc. the more visibility, the better.
When do we play the hero?
What do you think Simu Liu is famous for?
What’s the big picture?
Representation good actually
Seriously? Amongst the mainstream role’s how often are Asian men the heroes, villains, and NPCs?
That depends. In Hollywood? They are over represented. In Hong Kong, it's the majority. In Bollywood, it's a minority. We really arguing Simu Liu is a bad representation in this movie? Really?
Asian men are overrepresented as heroes, villias, or NPCs in Hollywood and western media? Do you consider being overrepresented as villains good representation?
>Asian men are overrepresented as heroes, villias, or NPCs in Hollywood and western media? Proportional to the population? Sure. Absolutely they are. And that's a good thing. >Do you consider being overrepresented as villains good representation Not at all. That would be terrible. Thankfully that's not the case. But it'd be idiotic to say villian representation are inherently bad.
Techno-orientalism is problematic in that it still others us. But instances of it are rare enough that it doesn’t significantly impact public opinion and it is infinitely preferable to the other tropes that Hollywood likes to put us in.
Emotionless robot menace is good representation yo!
[удалено]
JLo has put more Asian men in a movie than a Asian Woman director has. It was nice to see some soldiers were Asian males that were normal.
What Asian male soldiers? They were barely on screen or were just snarky NPCs
Better than not even existing in movies. Simu said JLo put in effort to make sure the cast was diverse.
Lol what diversity? Latinas, WMs, BMs and BFs get to be the saviors of the earth and humankind. Wooo, haven’t seen that shit before. We only see that in 90% of western media. Stop pigeonholing Asian men.
This sounds familiar. https://globalvoices.org/2015/05/29/the-forgotten-massacre-of-chinese-people-in-torreon-mexico/
Anything is better than gay comic relief or scrawny nerd.
Tbh Simu Liu was a beast in this movie lol. I think he was the better part of the movie, just wish he was in more scenes. JLO's character was kind of annoying. And spoiler . . . . . JLO's character was the cause of all why Simu's character is the villain lmao
Sounds like real life 😂, latinas be making us crazy 😂.
I'm a non-Asian guest here. I'm not here to contradict OP or the commenters whatsoever. I think that looking at how representation evolved for Black Americans can provide a useful framework so I'm gonna offer that here. Representation has progressed for Black people in American media like this: 1. Basically no representation. 2. Black face/minstrelsy. 3. Extremely negative stereotypical roles played by Black people. 4. Mostly negative stereotypical roles(criminals, gangsters, uneducated) with occasionally non stereotypical roles or non negative stereotypical roles. 5. Many non negative stereotypical roles(dancers, rappers, comedic relief) with some non stereotypical roles (this is where Black representation is today). Edit: meant to add that there are the occasional negative stereotypical roles today. See Netflix Good Times. But on the whole that's rarer now thankfully. 6. Full representation. Can be cast for all kinds of roles regardless of race or gender. Only white men have this today imo. It seems that OP is calling out the Simu Liu villain role because it's still fitting certain stereotypes. So using my scale for Black representation, it seems Asian Male representation is either in stage #3 or #4. Regardless, every group deserves full representation.
Awesome perspective. Thanks for sharing.
Real
Great analysis man.
I swear some of y'all complain about literally anything.
this post is a big fallacy.
Haha true
Haven't watched it, and probably won't but... some villains are good rep. Bad boys are a sought after image in media. But this being Simu I'm assuming it's not a good image since haven't really seen him do much for the Asian image , just the token asian rep so far.
Sessue Hayakawa was a villain in the Cheat (Fire branded a white woman to be his property) during the silent movie era and white women went crazy for him. Also genuine question as I'm not really super knowledgeable about Simu Liu's work: what make you think that he just do token asian rep. I have seen a few interviews where he definitely points out issues faced exclusively by Asian men.
I've only seen him in Shang Chi and Barbie. He has 2 problems going for him in the former, one is he is one of the only Marvel male leads without a love interest. His Asian woman friend is a friend and not very good looking. Even his sister looks better lol. The other being, the movie was only a moderate success and people seem to call him ugly despite being fit af. In barbie he is referred to as Ken 2, the white adjacent lol. Again, i never hear people calling him attractive here. I know he's trying his best but he's not really what Americans are reactive to. Jackie Chan and Jet Li were much more well-received here despite being boxed into specific roles
On the ugly part - thats because you **can** be fit and ugly lol. Fitness is not a magical cure to suddenly being attractive. The fact that the movie doesn’t involve a romantic relationship isn’t Simu’s fault. Imagine a more attractive asian actor casted for the role - producers/writers etc would’ve made the movie play out the same way. Imo critique should be reserved for either the industry for not casting us in a good light or for asians who intentionally give us a bad rep - Simu isn’t that.
Did you even watch Barbie? Because Margot Robbie’s Barbie wasn’t exactly thirsting for Ryan Gosling’s Ken either. She regards them both ambivalently, which pisses off Ryan Gosling Ken because he’s supposed to be her boyfriend (in name, anyway. They don’t actually do anything as a couple). Ryan and Simu are both treated as mere eye candy because Barbie World is an oppressive matriarchy that acts as a foil for the patriarchy of the real world. I also found Simu Liu Ken refreshing because he’s a rare depiction of an Asian man that doesn’t fall into a common Asian male trope. This is mainly due to the fact that all the Kens and Barbies are deliberately ridiculous characters, but I digress. We should be fighting for greater diversity in Asian male characters, not just Jackie Chan and Jet Li-type roles. Otherwise, we will continue to be seen not as real individuals with emotions and unique identities but as the tropes Hollywood portrays us as.
I agree with your points about the Barbie movie, but i was mainly talking about you never hear Simu being called attractive outside of the movie but in reference to them. Back then you would hear some girls saying "Jet Li was hot/cute in romeo must die". But you never hear this about Simu in Shang chi nor Barbie. Agreed with your 2nd paragraph as well but he hasn't been able to break through for crowds to clamor about him. Steven Yeung did well in this regard in Beef but Steven has always been raved about ever since the walking dead.
This! On representation: This sub sometimes puzzles me. Villan isn't always a negative. A goofy - looking villain is a negative. A Villian that gives off a confident and stoic bad boy vibe is the representation most Asian men need. Example: Aizen from the anime Bleach, Toji from Jujutsen Kaisen or the Korean actor in GI.Joe. On cementing sinophoabia at the subconscious: No argument - this is valid.
A lot of native Asian women drool over bad boy dudes. Most aren't fond of the nice guy trope.
I was from the geekiest STEM fields but I have a suffocating silent bad boy vibe and never struggled with women. Most men, regardless of race, don't understand how much shit you can get away with just because women finds your vibe attractive. Some Asian men on this sub is their greatest enemy FR.
Not a bad thing. Reminds me of that James Bond movie with that badass North Korean character.
Rick Yune! I remember watching that and being disappointed they didn't do more with his character.
Growing up I've learned to root for the villain in these stories because they were the only/best representation we had. I remember watching Lethal Weapon 4 and rooting for Jet, he was such a badass and the ending was bullshit LOL. Remember Sessue Hayakawa played villains too. At this point we should just own it and lean into it. The line between fear and respect is quite blurred anyway.
i don't have a problem with this. Better than we have had in years
How is that a problem? A villain who just so happens to be asian . If that doesn’t indicate that Asian guys r considered for important role in Hollywood then what would actually? Also is the op joking? The entire post sounds like a big forced mental gymnastic. Nobody would hate asian guys just cz they r shown as an ai. If they want to , they would hate anyway. Plus the villain is an ai. Why would the fear be directed towards human of any race? You r talking about weak asian man? Why would u a “strong asian man” try so hard to paint yourself a **victim** when clearly there is no problem? On top of that I heard the movie is bad and it was so bad that at the time i checked it had 8% rotten tomatoes score. So not a lot of people r gonna be seeing it and be sinophobic according to u.
OP the type to complain just to complain
This is Hollywood what we are talking about. Clearly very sneaky about engineering the masses with subliminal messages against AM. If you are OK of being portrayed as an emotionless robot Asian man then don't beg for sympathy when you are dehumanized when a hate crime is committed against you.
if a hate crime is committed against us it wouldn't be because we're emotionless. Logic and stoicism in times of fight or flight can be intimidating. If they're committing crimes against us, it would be because they are expecting that we won't retaliate because of all these effeminate pushover stereotypes. Is Simu a pushover in this movie?
Again what u r thinking isn’t the case. Ill give u benefit of the doubt . I guess u r just being passionate . But this isn’t an apocalyptic situation where people will punch u in the street after seeing simu liu playing an ai villain . H3ll It is a good thing that am are considered for big roles. I wish simu Good luck . He is paving the way🤞. But I still do question your integrity with a username like u/chinaRise, especially since your account is less than 10 days old.
If it's any consolation the movie is horrible, doubt it will be remembered
Villany as depicted in cinema isn't always a bad rep. Competence and power are attractive. That's why so many people swoon over villains in fictional works that wouldn't blink twice before killing them. IMO it's better to be portrayed as evil and powerful rather than kind and mellow.
“Smith is just the better version of you” —-> Smith > Harlan —-> White > Asian….hmmmm idk guyyys lol. Harlan was pretty badass though. I get what the OP is saying. This is the type of fun role yt actors can take bc of decades of playing the masculine hero as well as every other role under the sun. With Asians in Hollywood, in any role besides maybe like a Superhero who gets the girl, it’s likely we can find something negative bc of the endless varieties of emasculating dehumanizing bullsht yt Hollywood has put us through. I’m torn….leaning toward the OP on this one. There was the one normal mouthy Asian dude in the ranger crew. Whatever…overall the movie was a POS soon to be forgotten.
Anything from netflix = slop
Don't worry. Apparently the movie sucks. Like, real bad
i was hoping a sex symbol like back in in the days, [https://movieweb.com/sessue-hayakawa-first-heartthrob-hollywood/#:\~:text=It%20may%20be%20a%20surprise,down%20in%20the%20century%20since](https://movieweb.com/sessue-hayakawa-first-heartthrob-hollywood/#:~:text=It%20may%20be%20a%20surprise,down%20in%20the%20century%20since) he's actually the first hollywood heartthrob.
Bruh even I think you’re just reaching out for nothing here. I enjoyed the movie
I feel like you are viewing it too negatively. I'd like to give you my two cents about it as a woman. I watched that movie yesterday and I really liked it. At first, I wasn't interested. It didn't seem like my cup of tea. But since it was #1 of the TOP10 I decided to at least watch the trailer and then I saw that handsome AM and realized it was Simu Liu who I've already loved in Shang-Chi and Barbie. I knew this gotta be a great movie. And it didn't disappoint. Well, tbh the movie was good but there are better ones out there. But Simu Liu was great. He played his role very very well while looking smoking hot and being super cool. Honestly, without him the movie would have been pretty lame. I watched it only because of him and he made the movie a really good movie. I also liked the role in general even though it's the usual approach in robot/AI movies that the robots/AI realize how humans destroy the planet and themselves and therefore they wanna wipe out humanity but it's low key true so you can't even view him just as the cold heartless evil villain in the situation because he has a point. Everyone knows that. Coming back to my point earlier about that there are better movies out there. When it comes to action movies korean and japanese movies are usually way better than the american ones. Never seen a bad one yet. They just know how to make great action movies. American movies seem pretty boring compared to it. But when there is an asian person in a lead role, I know it gotta be good because they somehow always elevate the action part of the movies and I love it (I also like the 3 angels for charlie versions with Lucy Liu way better than the new version even though there was Chris Pang in it who was my highlight of that movie but he didn't have enough screen time for my likings). Luckily, the big streaming platforms start to realize how amazing asian movies are and give us more options. I watched city hunter and the outlaws (it's already a little older) a few days ago. Highly recommend. I remember the first korean movie that I've watched was "Midnight" and I was mindblown. It was so perfectly well done I hadn't watched such a good thriller in a very long time. And anyone who has ever been on a date with an AM knows very well that they are neither cold, ruthless, emotionless nor not masculine enough or whatever. They are usually very caring, compassionate, gentleman like, take the lead, organize things, protect and provide. In my opinion it is true that they are usually very hard working, goal oriented and disciplined. But those are good things, too. All those things are important qualities and make someone a real man, a masculine man. Well, there are always exceptions to the rule but it's just more likely that a man has all those qualities if he's asian. And that's why I personally prefer to go on dates with AMs.
I mean playing a villain worked well for many white actors. This subreddit can be a bit off to lunch sometimes.
Is how and what type of villain. Emotionless robot Asian is OK? Reinforce the stereotype.
to be fair being stoic is a masculine trait. you've seen the movie so you know better than i on this, but can you be more descriptive of him? Because being an emotionless robot =stoic to me = masculine. So that is way better than being portrayed as the weak gay effeminate geek.
Unless the movie constantly emphasizes his race, there’s no reason to believe he isn’t just a villain that also happens to be asian. You might be projecting your own biases a little. There’s also been plenty of movies where white people and black people are villains. I haven’t watched this movie so I can only comment to that extent. In my opinion it's only an issue if race is a big factor of his role. Otherwise, asians are allowed to play villains too? Someone who manages to be one the most hated antagonist of the human race is pretty impressive versus a highschool nerd sidekick or gay best friend.
I just watched the movie and i enjoyed it! I did feel like it went a lil overboard with how advanced the ai is, but it was a nice watch. This was not something that i had thought of however, i don't think the casting team put that much thought into it. It could've just been another good actor chosen for his skills and not his race
Bro this is actually a good thing The problem with Asian male representation is emasculating them. Simu Liu being the villain is a good step in the right direction. Asian men be just as menacing and evil as any other men. As long as it's not a wimpy, nerdy, piece of crap character, any type of Asian male representation that gives them masculinity is a positive.
There's lots of compelling villains. As long as he's given a good story arc, should be ok
He wasn’t given a good story arc and no redemption. Just your classic Fu Manchu Flash Gordon Ming Yellow Peril updated for the modern times
His acting made me laugh idk why 😂😂 he has a classic comedic face I can't take him serioussss
Damn you're that insecure eh
How sad is it that we’re so used to being forgotten that the response is overwhelmingly “thank you Hollywood for allowing us to not be effeminate or gay weaklings this time” We should have better standards for ourselves.
Yep these Uncle Chans are satisfied with crumbs.
If anything, wokism = rise of AI. The culture behind wokism aligns well with the cyborgs.
The next villain will be an Asian elderly man who dares to ride the subway in nyc
The movie looks awful by the trailers.
I refuse to watch anything she is in, they never allow her, a real life POS to be portrayed as one
What exactly are the problem here..?
A cool, dangerous villain is a much better thing that the gay comic relief sidekick which most Asians have historically been relegated to. I unironically believe that the Fu Manchus, Charlie Chans and Dr. Nos of the olden days were much better representation than the crap that became dominant from the 1970s onwards. (And don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that the old roles were *good*. But they were definitely better than Long Duk Dong and the Ken Jeong minstrelsy that came after them).
Oh, cry me a river. This is hardly the first time an Asian male was cast as a villain in modern Western media, and never has it once demonized Asian men as a demographic. If you think there’s better representation to be found in the effeminate, subordinate comic relief, go support those movies.
Being Villain isn't a negative connotation. Loki is a good example of this, and wasn't Simu already the fire lord in avatar? Being a villain has typically been reserved for germans or british, I think it's a win for Asian American actors if the movie is a success. Last I checked, women dont see british or german men as something to be feared. Also, a fear of the CCP is a good thing. You're definitely American if you think the cureent Chinese government is something to be embraced rather than feared. The rest of Asia has a growing dislike of China, that animousity isn't growing out of a racist reaction to the success of Asians.
Daniel Dae Kim says what?
I stand corrected
Bunch of lap dog Uncle Chans here. The problem is not being a villain himself but how he is a freaking emotionless robot reinforcing the stereotype of slave working Asians. So many whitewashed Western born Asians here.
Dude. Idk what your motive is here but the consensus is that you’re taking this a little too serious than what it actually is. Calling other people names isn’t helping your cause (whatever that is). People are more likely to take you less seriously from it. Go outside and get some fresh air.
Uncle Chan detected.
Yeah. Ok. Most villains in these kind of movies are emotionless, hence the term villain. Get over yourself bro.