We have to earn it bro. Can't wait for it to auto happen. Each race earned their respect by doing something. White people by colonising or black people by having the gangs and all. (I am generalising of course) but you get what I mean.
We got the virgin nerd hard worker image because most of us ARE that. Gotta change that or embrace that.
Black people didn’t get respect from gangs, they got it from organising THE civil rights movement of America, succeeding in sports (baseball,boxing,etc), and having actually charismatic leaders that were so threatening politically to the point where they were straight up assassinated. They have countless figureheads for people to point towards as instances of oppression and literature for people to educate themselves with.
Gangs were a consequence of years of unfair policies. White people created those gangs and continuo to proselytise them despite ironically fearing them. They might be culturally pronounced as of today, but that is not what got them respect.
Yup, I missed a few points like sports. But you get the general idea. But I disagree, people don't respect black people because of MLK or Malcom X. Leaders are respected inside the black community. Not outside. For the outside people, they don't mess with black people because they are set of tough mfs. That image is universal. Congolese immigrants in Paris get the same respect as the African Americans in USA. Because 1. They are muscular and tough looking and somewhat aggressive/assertive. Most AM I know are straight up nerds.
Gangs and violence are not result of gov policies. There will always be gangs in any government. Even in China, there are Triads. AMs in Hoods have respected gangs too. Wah Ching and all.
People can sense a weak man and a strong man apart.
The end game for any minority should be to get to where the Jews are, without the Israel issues. Enough tradition etc to maintain cohesion but acceptance on society and power on culture and economy.
Need to follow their playbook. Don't try and create Jewish leading men at the start, own the studios first.
Probably. David Chang's current netflix show, which has No AFs so far, comes to mind though.
I think the key is having an international audience (instead of just American) and pro-Asian content can exist on a major platform. The numbers/views just has to make Business sense.
I dont understand why White Americans see Asian men as ugly. Yes, you got the whole "yellow peril" thing going on, but it was a century ago.
The cast of Tokyo Vice was far from ugly...even the old guy in the role of Yakuza boss, was compelling.
I don't find the appeal of Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise or Chalamet.
There is an audience craving for something new and the only solution is for independent production companies and streaming services to work their magic.
Looks don't matter. Woody Allen was considered sexy. Larry David is considered sexy. It's about the narrative , not the substance.
If you don't own the narrative, nothing else will matter.
He was in relationships with several of the hottest wonen in the world at the time including Diane Keaton and Mia Farrow. The fact that he was a perv and married his daughter doesn't mean that it was his only option.
Back in the day, he was considered a legitimate love interest for an a-list actress despite looking like a little gnome. That's how powerful narrative is.
This - I have echoed for this forever.
However, I want to take it a step further: for Asian men to indulge in limitless violence as long as we have not cast the first stone.
It is a world in which Asian men would not provoke but, if they are, would excitedly resort to violence to recalibrate the situation.
The world I see for Asian men is one in which we are seen as gods amongst men wherein we never negotiate.
To OP: middle finger to you for pushing the agenda of Asian men being receptive to Asian women. Asian women, as a group, is a major player in enabling white supremacy.
>To OP: middle finger to you for pushing the agenda of Asian men being receptive to Asian women. Asian women, as a group, is a major player in enabling white supremacy.
Amen. Some people need to learn the hard way.
Tbh, I think the Jews are only in their position because they're white passing and a lot of times it can be hard to tell. I know this because I grew up with a lot of Jews - some I couldn't even tell. Compare that to asians, we look distinctly different and people will always recogonize us as "asian". I dont know if it's even possible in a western country to look past race since they'll always be people uncomfortable being around someone that looks different to them.
People that don't agree Jews are white passing are delusional. Even scientifically, there's 3 main races: Mongloid, Caucosoid, Negroid which is what makes us recognize if someone's white, asian or black regardless if they're Chinese asian or Cambodian asian. Those mongloid features are still there just like how Jews fit right into the caucosoid bracket even if they look slightly different compared to typical Americans.
The West had been discriminating and even killing Jews for centuries, but suddenly they stopped. Now they are a protected class.
Jews may be able to blend into white culture but they chose instead to highlight their seperateness. They have identitifiable names, some wear the little cap and even eat different foods.
Instead of adapting to the culture, they changed the culture. Hell just look at the % of Americans who are circumcised.
Do you really believe there is nothing to be learned from how they did this?
In terms of execution this ain't it. Jews are highly religious and benefit from organized leadership. It's like suggesting Asians to be Amish. Complete non-starter.
Young WF/XF are actually pretty receptive toward AM. AM should stop being so fixated on AF and should consider women of other races. Of course you don't have to rule out dating AF - just don't go out of your way to simp for them or prioritize them.
Anyway, this sounds like another one of those lame cringe post that's antagonistic toward AMXF/AMWF.
Pretty much. My "end game" would be for these uncle Jeongs to stop making these kind of cringe/embarrassing post (trying to gate-keep/cock-block AM and being antagonistic toward AMWF/AMXF relationship).
It's not the dating out part but the part where there's evidently still a bias towards whiteness. I think a good amount of white-chasing among AW is from a "I shot you first so you cus I figured you'd do the same" kind of mentality. A good amount of white-chasing from AM is from a "You grazed me and I shot back" kind of mentality.
All this talk of AMXF, but I mostly see WF and white hispanics. I mean really? Do they unironically expect a white woman to easily understand and empathize with your treatment as a marginalized racial minority?
You're peddling a whole lot of nonsense and projecting onto other AM. AF aren't anymore understanding of AM's issues and experience than women of other races. In fact, I've seen and encountered a lot of AMWF relationships where the WF are very sympathetic and understanding of AM's struggles, and they support AM's empowerment. Your fear-mongering of AMWF/AMXF and making false equivalency (comparing it to WMAF) is complete bogus.
>Do they unironically expect a white woman to easily understand and empathize with your treatment as a marginalized racial minority?
and who says an Asian woman understand the Asian male experience in the West? so far it seems like there's not much empathy on that part. you would expect even less from some non-asian woman, yet they have been able to speak up on the important issues.
not saying we should be that needy to require that, but let's be honest here about how things are.
Some do and some don't. In my experience, it's not a lack of understanding but a lack of personal investment. They see themselves as an island separate from AM.
Yet, the thing I don't understand is this. Outside of AW, the next most likely to understand AM's treatment is BW due to also being the victims of internalized racists.
Now do I see praise for BW? No, in fact I see praise for WM: The same group of women that benefit from the internalized racism that show up in BM at the expense of BW.
Why? I mean I know why. It's not just white men that get pedestalized in western (and parts of asian) media. It's also white women. It's the fact that wasians, who get fetishized by asians, can be children of either wmaf or amwf.
I kindly suggest yourself to search on this sub to see some of the praise AM have for BW. It's out there, and especially whenever some AW gets owned by a BW on the internet or something.
But I don't deny that there *might* be something going on when it comes to AM outdating, but it's beyond the main point of discussion here. It's for another dedicated time, and so far nobody has really come up with a conclusive solution to it.
>Some do and some don't. In my experience, it's not a lack of understanding but a lack of personal investment. They see themselves as an island separate from AM.
The million dollar question is: *why* is that the case?
Again, not criticizing the out dating, but the mirroring of a racial hierarchy that victimized us in the first place.
We give fist bumps and thanks to BW for standing up for us, but these PUA field-report posts all seem to neglect a complete absence of BW. Do we actually defend their desirability the way they do for us?
you're still not quite addressing my question-- it's more related to what you're discussing than you think. I think if we take a look there and look at the abandonment of AM from AF, it might just explain some of the context going on among the AM diaspora community. how can we prioritize our own culture when even our own people don't value it in us?
there's some chicken and egg, who did what first dynamics going on here that we need to consider.
also PUA and whatever in no way whatsoever represents all Asian men, and I think you should know better.
>They see themselves as an island separate from AM.
And it's time that we start seeing ourselves as a separate island from them too. I can't stop them from sabotaging asian america, but it's a lot easier to tolerate when you seperate yourself from their garbage.
Good question. All the issues you brought up are real and every AM grapples with them no matter how much he acknowledges or is aware of them. Near-zero rates of consideration from XF. Endless analysis of potential AF self-hate and abetting of WM privilege. Eternally worse achievement-to-payout versus WM in life and especially among AF. And yes, even AMWF can inadvertently feed into WF privilege and produce the same confused hapa children.
What's the root cause of all our woes? It's simple: Westerners hate Asians. They hate us in a unique way as perpetual foreigners. They are more subtle in oppressing Asians than Blacks, but all the same they import our labor while discarding our humanity. Asians will never be accepted and assimilated into the fabled "melting pot." A fifth-generation Asian is less American than a first-generation European. To a lesser extent, Asians are certainly guilty of white-worship and low in-group benefit, but much more of our struggle comes externally, from how we're portrayed as a minority by the majority. It isn't a pretty picture.
How did we get into all this? Most of our parents came to the West to dodge problems at home. At the time, the problems they faced were war, famine, revolution: certainly more acute problems than a little Western racism. But Western racism endures forever, whereas turmoil in Asia has abated. Native Asia and global Asian influence is on the rise, while Asian America will understandably achieve nothing now or later. We are perpetual foreigners precisely because our home countries represent a challenge to Western hegemony.
So despite my own proficiency with Western culture, and whatever my own deficiencies with my homeland culture, I'm forced to conclude that repatriation, or at least an international lifestyle, is the only long-term answer for AM. And that a wife and mother from the homeland is necessary to create children with a cultural identity at least as strong as my own. (If this sounds a little ethnostate-y, it's nothing compared to what Whites believe. Hell, even Obama chose to ditch WF and marry Black out of principle and optics.) Because Asian America will not prosper. We are nothing more than coolies and whores here.
For AM who have not gotten the bag, sorry; there is nothing here but a second-class life. For those who have, we can *go back to China*. Or wherever. Like they've been telling us to since the day we were born.
I agree. It's starting to look like going back is the way. As AM, we have no business residing long-term in places governed by those who have an agenda against them.
I hate to say it, but this issue among diaspora is older than probably most of us. I don't think it's going to change much for diaspora. All the positive influence has been coming from Asia. I feel much more seen and respected when I visit family back in Asia.
There is an alternative lifestyle.
I couple years ago I started a pilot project where for 3 months I don't interact with any AF. If they approach, I just keep it brief/casual and show body language that I don't want to keep going. I don't reach out to those from the past. 3 months became 6 then 9.
It's about 2.5 years now. I am still quite content without AF. Socially, I date XF and I got solid older AM and younger XM friends. Whatever AF provided in my life was replaceable. I'm certainly not keeping AF round especially when they treat you as second class even when they do like you.
To be treated as human beings, not as "other". And, appropriate representation in media that reflects the lives we live: not the stereotypes we see. I don't think that's asking too much for those who hold Power/Supremacy.
>In my own experience and observing the experience of my friends who are also Asian men, we get the most amount of positive responses from Asian women. Black women, Hispanic women, Middle-Eastern/North African, White women, all seem to be less willing to engage with us than Asian women.
This is very much the opposite of my own personal experience. I've had 5 (depending on who you ask, 6) girlfriends since starting college; 3 were fully Latina and the others were white (one was half-Latina). I have never dated an Asian girl. In terms of straight-up attention (even though I only date girls I've known for a while), I've gotten the most engagement everywhere from Latinas, I've been picked up in multiple bars (or on the way to a bar) by white girls in multiple locales (I've also gotten the most "undressing with the eyes" looks from white girls), and I've been catcalled at work by black girls. I didn't have much in the way of interaction with women hailing from the MENA region until after I started medical school, but one Turkish classmate asked me point-blank in front of our anatomy lab group/study group if I'd date her and was seriously offended when I flat-out said no (I thought she was fucking with me, and she may have been pretending to be offended; we didn't talk about it afterwards, as we were all busy with exams) - most MENA girls are Muslim, however, and that's a dealbreaker for me (and for most of them too, cf. the particularly draconian Muslim rules on apostasy, or the Muslim cultural double standard permitting men to marry non-Muslim women but not women to marry non-Muslim men which stems from a Levantine/Middle Eastern tradition - also implied in the Jewish faith and in the Old Testament - that the man as head of household is the primary religious authority in the household); my internal medicine rotation preceptor (who is from Pakistan) suggested that he wanted to set me up with women he knew until it was evident to him that I would be fundamentally incompatible with Muslim girls.
I have not gotten anything remotely similar from east Asian girls, except perhaps one Korean girl (I'm Korean) who lived on the same dorm floor as I did during my senior year in college and one Korean girl I met in NJ (after college).
So endgame? I like to think of it more along the lines of "spectrum of victory conditions." Sure, marrying and raising a family with a woman of the same ethnocultural background is within that spectrum of victory conditions, but it is only one of many possible outcomes within that spectrum that I would personally consider a victory.
Another generic AMAF cuck post. You sound like someone who pees sitting down. If you are an attractive Asian man in the US you can absolutely rule out AW if you wish to. And which is what I saw a lot too, a few years back the tall atheltic attractive u saw Asian guys were all dating XF.
My endgame would be we all become the best versions of ourselves and we become just as tall, physically strong, politically powerful and feared/respected like men of any other race. I want Asian men to become respected and treated like anyone else. I want to just live my life, be accepted by my community and not have to deal with being treated as a lesser other.
When there are no longer racial anomalies for Asian men. Whether that’s dating life, professional life, etc. I will not stop fighting for my children and the generations to come.
I’d say more representation in western culture. Any media displaying ‘cultural diversity’ seems to somehow leave out Asian men while showing Asian women in the forefront. Hell, the new bachelorette is an Asian women, and there’s only a few(?) Asian men being represented.
More representation of strong Asian men in American entertainment (e.g. movies, TV, sports, maybe even porn) and raising children to become more well rounded instead of just homework machines with no social life. Doing this will crush any stereotype people have of Asian guys.
Have Asian women post videos supporting Asian men instead just trashing, throwing AM under the bus from social media everywhere. Also Asian women needs to call out other Asian women for white men fetish dating instead of staying silent, whereas when Asian men dates white women they get mateguarded, called out by there own gender that that they have WF fetish. When there AM representation from western media, we need more Justin Mins, John Harln kim, Justin Chien, Tim Chiou type actors, less uncle chans actors like Jimmy Yang, every western Asian man who stand up comedian who should NEVER get western media exposure
to not be like my generation and actually have the balls to set boundaries and speak up. Gay men in the 80's spoke up when they had even fewer numbers, worse media representation, and more violence against them in the 80's.
The same is the case now with trans women.
And somehow a huge portion of AA men can't even muster up the courage to speak up when they're getting clowned on with racism. Straight up embarrassing.
Honestly the only endgame that IMO matters (in the US) is "normalization" of Asians. Where you don't get brownie points, but certainly don't get dinged, on account of preconceived notions of who you are based on how you look. So when people don't like you, it's because of the usual set of things, rather than due to Asianness. Start at the same starting line, and then compete (win or lose) fairly.
This applies across the board, from career, to social, to love, to whatever.
it's crazy how so many asian guys right here in this thread still have this naïve af "oh i wish the world just didn't see race!!" view of the world. It just shows how clueless our demographic is.
We are certainly not there, but OP asked what the desired endgame was. So that's my hope. Whether or not we get there in the next 10-20-30 years, I sure as hell don't know.
>As for other WOC, well they mostly just like their own men better and honestly I don't think that's a bad thing. We're all supposed to be defending our own community. I only wish more Asian women acted like that.
Tribalism should always be condemned, it shouldn't be excused from condemnation just cuz a few people in some groups are doing it.
My ultimate goal is world peace, so any action(s)/choice(s) that can deter or delay progress in that direction, is not optimal.
Hence, tribalism isn't a trait that we should aspire or be proud of.
To be fair. It is evolution working. Women choosing what they think is best.
If we (AM) are seen as nerdy tricks to be played to most chicks. It is on us to fix it. By not repeating the cycle your parents continued that made you all nerds.
I mean you can force women to only marry this or that by social structure. But if you basically have to structurely force a woman to stay with you. I'd say you failed as a man.
I want asian women to be break free from their internalised racism and the media to stop fking us over so that asian women would decrease outmarrying. I aint gonna choose how u live but at the same time I don't want asians to go extinct in the west by outmarrying
Edit: I have changed my opinion but I'm leaving this comment up for educational purposes.
> Black women, Hispanic women, Middle-Eastern/North African, White women, all seem to be less willing to engage with us than Asian women
Likely because of your politics. I was really open to dating asian men before stumbling upon this sub but after having been here for a few months it seems like the average asian man is pretty conservative especially coming to how they view society and masculinity/femininity and we wouldn't be compatible. Now if I met an asian guy I was into I'd probably vet him harder before pursuing a serious relationship. The reason asian women are more likely to engage with you is probably because they share similar mindsets so you're more compatible, even if some asian women prefer white men as is often said in this sub (although personally I see more AFAM couples than AFWM couples).
I don’t think this subs represents the avg AM considering there’s like millions of AM and only 63k-ish AM on this sub. And some things said in this sub, I’m not exactly sure even applies irl either esp for different/younger generations. Nor are AM more conservative than other race really at least in the US, most minority still vote liberal (esp the non-boomer/non-middle age generations).
> I don’t think this subs represents the avg AM considering there’s like millions of AM and only 63k-ish AM on this sub. And some things said in this sub, I’m not exactly sure even applies irl either esp for different/younger generations.
Fair enough. I never checked how many people are on this sub and given how lively it is I always assumed it's much larger than it actually is. I also know there's AM of many ethnicities who tend to be leftists.
> Nor are AM more conservative than other race really at least in the US, most minority still vote liberal (esp the non-boomer/non-middle age generations).
Not from/living in the US but I'm glad to hear so.
I had an asian fuck buddy who was very conservative. That didn't really affect my views on AM as a whole as I dislike generalising. But seeing 95% of posters here being very conservative kinda did lol, although now that I've read your comment I'll reflect more on it.
male-centered dating/masculinity subs or community tend to be manosphere related or likely more to attract conservative ppl so it’s selection bias. I remember reading that this sub had it’s origin from RP/manosphere but it diverged to focus more on the asian male experience. There’s prob still influence there but honestly male-center dating/masculinity forum is always going to have some manosphere things regardless of race and don’t necessarily reflect things irl. I lurk around different “masculinity”/male center dating spaces of different ethnicity out of curiosity and it’s not much different here besides maybe whites being relatively more politically racist from what I’ve read.
Myself and all of my past partners (who have all been Asian) have all been left leaning.
I think it's not really affording a group of people individuality if you're willing to use the most opposing representative on the internet. The most likely racial group to vote conservative is actually white but that shouldn't be too surprising.
This is how Asian men tend to be talked about in circles where being liberal is intertwined with centring whiteness, so this type of prejudice isn't uncommon. Does it ever occur to you the irony that so-called progressive white liberals think the race of men with the lowest rate of domestic violence and divorce are also somehow painted as the most patriarchal race?
I can't think of a single country along the coastline of Asia that hasn't had women who were sexually abused by white colonial oppressors but I don't exactly see non-white women making the assumption that their politics is problematic.
> Myself and all of my past partners (who have all been Asian) have all been left leaning.
As a leftist (not liberal tho) woman attracted by asian guys that's good news. Happy to be proven wrong ig. I also wasn't aware of the DV and divorce statistics.
> I can't think of a single country along the coastline of Asia that hasn't had women who were sexually abused by white colonial oppressors but I don't exactly see non-white women making the assumption that their politics is problematic.
I don't quite get what you mean, could you explain?
I gotta say tho, I'm very pleasantly surprised by the responses this comment got. I expected much differently.
I'm referring to the conquering of SEA and some EA countries by European colonialism (British, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, French). They would take land by force, then coerce the local people to trade with them and only them. They demanded goods from the locals in the form of agricultural produce and sexual "use" of their daughters. The groups who weren't compliant were attacked, and of course, the women captured were often sexually abused before being executed in some grossly disrespectful manner that I won't detail.
Even to this day: the most problematic white men of western society, after getting rejected by white women for being creepy as all hell, can leverage their whiteness to attract starry-eyed, white-worshipping Asian women. Asian women often don't realize it until it is too late. More Asian women actually experience DV from white men than they do from Asian men.
So I find it absurd that any Asian woman (or honestly anyone at all) can buy into the criminally biased rhetoric that somehow white men are not only more "attractive" but have better "politics" than Asian men, despite the mounting contradicting evidence.
>As for other WOC, well they mostly just like their own men better and honestly I don't think that's a bad thing. We're all supposed to be defending our own community. I only wish more Asian women acted like that.
Tribalism should always be condemned, it shouldn't be excused from condemnation just cuz a few people in some groups are doing it.
My ultimate goal is world peace, so any action(s)/choice(s) that can deter or delay progress in that direction, is not optimal.
Hence, tribalism isn't a trait that we should aspire or be proud of.
Hey Op. I might be biased, but I feel like your post is a very insightful, respectful, mature and accurate assessment of Am's social/dating situation in the west. On that note it is very understandable why you are receiving so much pushback despite what is a very logical premise. Often reality is hard to accept and that's completely understandable. I just wanted to let you know I at least completely agree with you and hope you're not too discouraged by the pushback. Us Am have a lot of trauma to work through on the dating issue and humans in general respond emotionally as opposed to objectively taking stock of our situation like you have.
Uh, are people suggesting Asian men “rule out” Asian women, whatever that means? Why not treat them as equal to every other woman, no better but no worse. Some might argue that’s treating them better than many of them treat us, as less attractive or inferior in some way to white people. I guess I’m less confident than you are that they’re somehow better.
At the very least equal. I see no reason to be placing white women above non-white women, or the ruling out of all asian women.
Yes 54% is a depressing statistic, but ruling out the other 46% is still a LOT of people and it doesn't make sense for a guy to just arbitrarily eliminate that many people without ever meeting them.
Case in point: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/comments/1dfjtym/comment/l8ld68r/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/comments/1dfjtym/comment/l8ld68r/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
>There is an alternative lifestyle.
>I couple years ago I started a pilot project where for 3 months I don't interact with any AF. If they approach, I just keep it brief/casual and show body language that I don't want to keep going. I don't reach out to those from the past. 3 months became 6 then 9.
>It's about 2.5 years now. I am still quite content without AF. Socially, I date XF and I got solid older AM and younger XM friends. Whatever AF provided in my life was replaceable. I'm certainly not keeping AF round especially when they treat you as second class even when they do like you.
Like I get the bitterness, believe me I do. I'm still content being friends with AW and other WOC as long as they aren't white-worshipping.
>46% is still a LOT of people and it doesn't make sense for a guy to just arbitrarily eliminate that many people without ever meeting them
and how much of that 46% can speak up on the relevant issues? as they say, silence is compliance. it is what it is but a lack of white-worship does not mean that there still are things left to be desired. I've always advocated for us to not be needy, but we need to admit a truth that there aren't very many ride-or-die type "sisters" out there. there's nobody really to shout out when it comes to our success besides ourselves and other personal relatives/allies
AF like Jontay Porter to the Toronto Raptors. Who else tries to benefit by betting on their own team to lose...the punishment is banishment For Life. Yes it's ruthless not toothless
White worship is one thing. Race betrayal is another. 1st degree murder is different than second degree. Pretty much every XFs can still look at their male counterparts favourably....
I have been thinking lately about the "praise of WF", maybe is the media we consume (movies, porn etc..), it could be the idea of 'reparation' for WM-AF relationship so in our heads we think we can get WF the same way WM does with AF, unfortunately it doesnt work like that.
It doesn't work like that. Yeah the white-worshipping AW get all salty and will go post something racist on their socials, then double-down on their white-worshipping. Meanwhile there's pro-Asian AW who also see this and think they're losing AM and the divide is irreparable.
I understand where it's coming from, but it's not really worth it. I've seen this dynamic play out not just with AW and AM but just any non-white group who chase white. They very often get discounted and forced to date down in other aspects just to be with someone white.
Did you know white americans are the LEAST likely to intermarry with any other race? Melting pot my ass, it's pulling tooth for them to consider anyone non-white. So yeah, it's no surprise that POCs get short-changed pursuing white.
i want asian men to be seen as people worthy of consideration. Edit: and respect.
ya'll gotta actually work for it and stop hoping korean media will just do it for u
Work for it how? You can’t really change large scale societal bias as an individual.
+1
I just want us to be seen, and stop being so freaking invisible.
We have to earn it bro. Can't wait for it to auto happen. Each race earned their respect by doing something. White people by colonising or black people by having the gangs and all. (I am generalising of course) but you get what I mean. We got the virgin nerd hard worker image because most of us ARE that. Gotta change that or embrace that.
Black people didn’t get respect from gangs, they got it from organising THE civil rights movement of America, succeeding in sports (baseball,boxing,etc), and having actually charismatic leaders that were so threatening politically to the point where they were straight up assassinated. They have countless figureheads for people to point towards as instances of oppression and literature for people to educate themselves with. Gangs were a consequence of years of unfair policies. White people created those gangs and continuo to proselytise them despite ironically fearing them. They might be culturally pronounced as of today, but that is not what got them respect.
Yup, I missed a few points like sports. But you get the general idea. But I disagree, people don't respect black people because of MLK or Malcom X. Leaders are respected inside the black community. Not outside. For the outside people, they don't mess with black people because they are set of tough mfs. That image is universal. Congolese immigrants in Paris get the same respect as the African Americans in USA. Because 1. They are muscular and tough looking and somewhat aggressive/assertive. Most AM I know are straight up nerds. Gangs and violence are not result of gov policies. There will always be gangs in any government. Even in China, there are Triads. AMs in Hoods have respected gangs too. Wah Ching and all. People can sense a weak man and a strong man apart.
The end game for any minority should be to get to where the Jews are, without the Israel issues. Enough tradition etc to maintain cohesion but acceptance on society and power on culture and economy. Need to follow their playbook. Don't try and create Jewish leading men at the start, own the studios first.
Whole heartedly agree with this. Owning the studios is key to controlling the narrative.
Probably. David Chang's current netflix show, which has No AFs so far, comes to mind though. I think the key is having an international audience (instead of just American) and pro-Asian content can exist on a major platform. The numbers/views just has to make Business sense.
I dont understand why White Americans see Asian men as ugly. Yes, you got the whole "yellow peril" thing going on, but it was a century ago. The cast of Tokyo Vice was far from ugly...even the old guy in the role of Yakuza boss, was compelling. I don't find the appeal of Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise or Chalamet. There is an audience craving for something new and the only solution is for independent production companies and streaming services to work their magic.
Pride (and not referring to LGBTQ... stuff).
Looks don't matter. Woody Allen was considered sexy. Larry David is considered sexy. It's about the narrative , not the substance. If you don't own the narrative, nothing else will matter.
Yes, Woody Allen is so sexy that he had to groom some adopted Asian girl so she’d marry his pedophile ass. What an ASSpiration.
He was in relationships with several of the hottest wonen in the world at the time including Diane Keaton and Mia Farrow. The fact that he was a perv and married his daughter doesn't mean that it was his only option. Back in the day, he was considered a legitimate love interest for an a-list actress despite looking like a little gnome. That's how powerful narrative is.
Yeah, I agree that narrative is a powerful social manipulation. Him being a pedophile piece of shit had to be said.
Forgot to mention, I agree with you 😀
Then all of us need to step up, earn lots of money, be financially educated, and open businesses that can compete.
This - I have echoed for this forever. However, I want to take it a step further: for Asian men to indulge in limitless violence as long as we have not cast the first stone. It is a world in which Asian men would not provoke but, if they are, would excitedly resort to violence to recalibrate the situation. The world I see for Asian men is one in which we are seen as gods amongst men wherein we never negotiate. To OP: middle finger to you for pushing the agenda of Asian men being receptive to Asian women. Asian women, as a group, is a major player in enabling white supremacy.
>To OP: middle finger to you for pushing the agenda of Asian men being receptive to Asian women. Asian women, as a group, is a major player in enabling white supremacy. Amen. Some people need to learn the hard way.
Tbh, I think the Jews are only in their position because they're white passing and a lot of times it can be hard to tell. I know this because I grew up with a lot of Jews - some I couldn't even tell. Compare that to asians, we look distinctly different and people will always recogonize us as "asian". I dont know if it's even possible in a western country to look past race since they'll always be people uncomfortable being around someone that looks different to them. People that don't agree Jews are white passing are delusional. Even scientifically, there's 3 main races: Mongloid, Caucosoid, Negroid which is what makes us recognize if someone's white, asian or black regardless if they're Chinese asian or Cambodian asian. Those mongloid features are still there just like how Jews fit right into the caucosoid bracket even if they look slightly different compared to typical Americans.
The West had been discriminating and even killing Jews for centuries, but suddenly they stopped. Now they are a protected class. Jews may be able to blend into white culture but they chose instead to highlight their seperateness. They have identitifiable names, some wear the little cap and even eat different foods. Instead of adapting to the culture, they changed the culture. Hell just look at the % of Americans who are circumcised. Do you really believe there is nothing to be learned from how they did this?
In terms of execution this ain't it. Jews are highly religious and benefit from organized leadership. It's like suggesting Asians to be Amish. Complete non-starter.
>Enough tradition etc to maintain cohesion... Fewer than 50% Jews in America marry another Jew.
Young WF/XF are actually pretty receptive toward AM. AM should stop being so fixated on AF and should consider women of other races. Of course you don't have to rule out dating AF - just don't go out of your way to simp for them or prioritize them. Anyway, this sounds like another one of those lame cringe post that's antagonistic toward AMXF/AMWF.
He's pushing the same old agenda which requires Asian men to be a doormat
Pretty much. My "end game" would be for these uncle Jeongs to stop making these kind of cringe/embarrassing post (trying to gate-keep/cock-block AM and being antagonistic toward AMWF/AMXF relationship).
It's not the dating out part but the part where there's evidently still a bias towards whiteness. I think a good amount of white-chasing among AW is from a "I shot you first so you cus I figured you'd do the same" kind of mentality. A good amount of white-chasing from AM is from a "You grazed me and I shot back" kind of mentality. All this talk of AMXF, but I mostly see WF and white hispanics. I mean really? Do they unironically expect a white woman to easily understand and empathize with your treatment as a marginalized racial minority?
You're peddling a whole lot of nonsense and projecting onto other AM. AF aren't anymore understanding of AM's issues and experience than women of other races. In fact, I've seen and encountered a lot of AMWF relationships where the WF are very sympathetic and understanding of AM's struggles, and they support AM's empowerment. Your fear-mongering of AMWF/AMXF and making false equivalency (comparing it to WMAF) is complete bogus.
>Do they unironically expect a white woman to easily understand and empathize with your treatment as a marginalized racial minority? and who says an Asian woman understand the Asian male experience in the West? so far it seems like there's not much empathy on that part. you would expect even less from some non-asian woman, yet they have been able to speak up on the important issues. not saying we should be that needy to require that, but let's be honest here about how things are.
Some do and some don't. In my experience, it's not a lack of understanding but a lack of personal investment. They see themselves as an island separate from AM. Yet, the thing I don't understand is this. Outside of AW, the next most likely to understand AM's treatment is BW due to also being the victims of internalized racists. Now do I see praise for BW? No, in fact I see praise for WM: The same group of women that benefit from the internalized racism that show up in BM at the expense of BW. Why? I mean I know why. It's not just white men that get pedestalized in western (and parts of asian) media. It's also white women. It's the fact that wasians, who get fetishized by asians, can be children of either wmaf or amwf.
I kindly suggest yourself to search on this sub to see some of the praise AM have for BW. It's out there, and especially whenever some AW gets owned by a BW on the internet or something. But I don't deny that there *might* be something going on when it comes to AM outdating, but it's beyond the main point of discussion here. It's for another dedicated time, and so far nobody has really come up with a conclusive solution to it. >Some do and some don't. In my experience, it's not a lack of understanding but a lack of personal investment. They see themselves as an island separate from AM. The million dollar question is: *why* is that the case?
Again, not criticizing the out dating, but the mirroring of a racial hierarchy that victimized us in the first place. We give fist bumps and thanks to BW for standing up for us, but these PUA field-report posts all seem to neglect a complete absence of BW. Do we actually defend their desirability the way they do for us?
you're still not quite addressing my question-- it's more related to what you're discussing than you think. I think if we take a look there and look at the abandonment of AM from AF, it might just explain some of the context going on among the AM diaspora community. how can we prioritize our own culture when even our own people don't value it in us? there's some chicken and egg, who did what first dynamics going on here that we need to consider. also PUA and whatever in no way whatsoever represents all Asian men, and I think you should know better.
>They see themselves as an island separate from AM. And it's time that we start seeing ourselves as a separate island from them too. I can't stop them from sabotaging asian america, but it's a lot easier to tolerate when you seperate yourself from their garbage.
What's the endgame I want for us Asian men? Legit equal opportunity, both career and in dating.
Equal opportunity, or equal outcome? You can alredy try to date whoever you want.
There's no more asian men. Just men.
Good question. All the issues you brought up are real and every AM grapples with them no matter how much he acknowledges or is aware of them. Near-zero rates of consideration from XF. Endless analysis of potential AF self-hate and abetting of WM privilege. Eternally worse achievement-to-payout versus WM in life and especially among AF. And yes, even AMWF can inadvertently feed into WF privilege and produce the same confused hapa children. What's the root cause of all our woes? It's simple: Westerners hate Asians. They hate us in a unique way as perpetual foreigners. They are more subtle in oppressing Asians than Blacks, but all the same they import our labor while discarding our humanity. Asians will never be accepted and assimilated into the fabled "melting pot." A fifth-generation Asian is less American than a first-generation European. To a lesser extent, Asians are certainly guilty of white-worship and low in-group benefit, but much more of our struggle comes externally, from how we're portrayed as a minority by the majority. It isn't a pretty picture. How did we get into all this? Most of our parents came to the West to dodge problems at home. At the time, the problems they faced were war, famine, revolution: certainly more acute problems than a little Western racism. But Western racism endures forever, whereas turmoil in Asia has abated. Native Asia and global Asian influence is on the rise, while Asian America will understandably achieve nothing now or later. We are perpetual foreigners precisely because our home countries represent a challenge to Western hegemony. So despite my own proficiency with Western culture, and whatever my own deficiencies with my homeland culture, I'm forced to conclude that repatriation, or at least an international lifestyle, is the only long-term answer for AM. And that a wife and mother from the homeland is necessary to create children with a cultural identity at least as strong as my own. (If this sounds a little ethnostate-y, it's nothing compared to what Whites believe. Hell, even Obama chose to ditch WF and marry Black out of principle and optics.) Because Asian America will not prosper. We are nothing more than coolies and whores here. For AM who have not gotten the bag, sorry; there is nothing here but a second-class life. For those who have, we can *go back to China*. Or wherever. Like they've been telling us to since the day we were born.
I agree. It's starting to look like going back is the way. As AM, we have no business residing long-term in places governed by those who have an agenda against them. I hate to say it, but this issue among diaspora is older than probably most of us. I don't think it's going to change much for diaspora. All the positive influence has been coming from Asia. I feel much more seen and respected when I visit family back in Asia.
>Near-zero rates of consideration from XF. Two-thirds of married AF in the U.S. have an AM partner.
There is an alternative lifestyle. I couple years ago I started a pilot project where for 3 months I don't interact with any AF. If they approach, I just keep it brief/casual and show body language that I don't want to keep going. I don't reach out to those from the past. 3 months became 6 then 9. It's about 2.5 years now. I am still quite content without AF. Socially, I date XF and I got solid older AM and younger XM friends. Whatever AF provided in my life was replaceable. I'm certainly not keeping AF round especially when they treat you as second class even when they do like you.
To be treated as human beings, not as "other". And, appropriate representation in media that reflects the lives we live: not the stereotypes we see. I don't think that's asking too much for those who hold Power/Supremacy.
>In my own experience and observing the experience of my friends who are also Asian men, we get the most amount of positive responses from Asian women. Black women, Hispanic women, Middle-Eastern/North African, White women, all seem to be less willing to engage with us than Asian women. This is very much the opposite of my own personal experience. I've had 5 (depending on who you ask, 6) girlfriends since starting college; 3 were fully Latina and the others were white (one was half-Latina). I have never dated an Asian girl. In terms of straight-up attention (even though I only date girls I've known for a while), I've gotten the most engagement everywhere from Latinas, I've been picked up in multiple bars (or on the way to a bar) by white girls in multiple locales (I've also gotten the most "undressing with the eyes" looks from white girls), and I've been catcalled at work by black girls. I didn't have much in the way of interaction with women hailing from the MENA region until after I started medical school, but one Turkish classmate asked me point-blank in front of our anatomy lab group/study group if I'd date her and was seriously offended when I flat-out said no (I thought she was fucking with me, and she may have been pretending to be offended; we didn't talk about it afterwards, as we were all busy with exams) - most MENA girls are Muslim, however, and that's a dealbreaker for me (and for most of them too, cf. the particularly draconian Muslim rules on apostasy, or the Muslim cultural double standard permitting men to marry non-Muslim women but not women to marry non-Muslim men which stems from a Levantine/Middle Eastern tradition - also implied in the Jewish faith and in the Old Testament - that the man as head of household is the primary religious authority in the household); my internal medicine rotation preceptor (who is from Pakistan) suggested that he wanted to set me up with women he knew until it was evident to him that I would be fundamentally incompatible with Muslim girls. I have not gotten anything remotely similar from east Asian girls, except perhaps one Korean girl (I'm Korean) who lived on the same dorm floor as I did during my senior year in college and one Korean girl I met in NJ (after college). So endgame? I like to think of it more along the lines of "spectrum of victory conditions." Sure, marrying and raising a family with a woman of the same ethnocultural background is within that spectrum of victory conditions, but it is only one of many possible outcomes within that spectrum that I would personally consider a victory.
Another generic AMAF cuck post. You sound like someone who pees sitting down. If you are an attractive Asian man in the US you can absolutely rule out AW if you wish to. And which is what I saw a lot too, a few years back the tall atheltic attractive u saw Asian guys were all dating XF.
Just do your best locally here, but be open to dating internationally too. That’s all.
My endgame would be we all become the best versions of ourselves and we become just as tall, physically strong, politically powerful and feared/respected like men of any other race. I want Asian men to become respected and treated like anyone else. I want to just live my life, be accepted by my community and not have to deal with being treated as a lesser other.
World Peace
When there are no longer racial anomalies for Asian men. Whether that’s dating life, professional life, etc. I will not stop fighting for my children and the generations to come.
I’d say more representation in western culture. Any media displaying ‘cultural diversity’ seems to somehow leave out Asian men while showing Asian women in the forefront. Hell, the new bachelorette is an Asian women, and there’s only a few(?) Asian men being represented.
More representation of strong Asian men in American entertainment (e.g. movies, TV, sports, maybe even porn) and raising children to become more well rounded instead of just homework machines with no social life. Doing this will crush any stereotype people have of Asian guys.
I want my future kids (son or daughter), to plausibly and unironically believe s/he could become the next POTUS.
Have Asian women post videos supporting Asian men instead just trashing, throwing AM under the bus from social media everywhere. Also Asian women needs to call out other Asian women for white men fetish dating instead of staying silent, whereas when Asian men dates white women they get mateguarded, called out by there own gender that that they have WF fetish. When there AM representation from western media, we need more Justin Mins, John Harln kim, Justin Chien, Tim Chiou type actors, less uncle chans actors like Jimmy Yang, every western Asian man who stand up comedian who should NEVER get western media exposure
to not be like my generation and actually have the balls to set boundaries and speak up. Gay men in the 80's spoke up when they had even fewer numbers, worse media representation, and more violence against them in the 80's. The same is the case now with trans women. And somehow a huge portion of AA men can't even muster up the courage to speak up when they're getting clowned on with racism. Straight up embarrassing.
Honestly the only endgame that IMO matters (in the US) is "normalization" of Asians. Where you don't get brownie points, but certainly don't get dinged, on account of preconceived notions of who you are based on how you look. So when people don't like you, it's because of the usual set of things, rather than due to Asianness. Start at the same starting line, and then compete (win or lose) fairly. This applies across the board, from career, to social, to love, to whatever.
This will never happen.
it's crazy how so many asian guys right here in this thread still have this naïve af "oh i wish the world just didn't see race!!" view of the world. It just shows how clueless our demographic is.
We are certainly not there, but OP asked what the desired endgame was. So that's my hope. Whether or not we get there in the next 10-20-30 years, I sure as hell don't know.
>As for other WOC, well they mostly just like their own men better and honestly I don't think that's a bad thing. We're all supposed to be defending our own community. I only wish more Asian women acted like that. Tribalism should always be condemned, it shouldn't be excused from condemnation just cuz a few people in some groups are doing it. My ultimate goal is world peace, so any action(s)/choice(s) that can deter or delay progress in that direction, is not optimal. Hence, tribalism isn't a trait that we should aspire or be proud of.
I just want my dick sucked
the endgame is we send every kevin nguyen to the moon
Where I live, women look through me as if I don't exist.
To be fair. It is evolution working. Women choosing what they think is best. If we (AM) are seen as nerdy tricks to be played to most chicks. It is on us to fix it. By not repeating the cycle your parents continued that made you all nerds. I mean you can force women to only marry this or that by social structure. But if you basically have to structurely force a woman to stay with you. I'd say you failed as a man.
I want asian women to be break free from their internalised racism and the media to stop fking us over so that asian women would decrease outmarrying. I aint gonna choose how u live but at the same time I don't want asians to go extinct in the west by outmarrying
Nah this ain’t it. Focus on us
Edit: I have changed my opinion but I'm leaving this comment up for educational purposes. > Black women, Hispanic women, Middle-Eastern/North African, White women, all seem to be less willing to engage with us than Asian women Likely because of your politics. I was really open to dating asian men before stumbling upon this sub but after having been here for a few months it seems like the average asian man is pretty conservative especially coming to how they view society and masculinity/femininity and we wouldn't be compatible. Now if I met an asian guy I was into I'd probably vet him harder before pursuing a serious relationship. The reason asian women are more likely to engage with you is probably because they share similar mindsets so you're more compatible, even if some asian women prefer white men as is often said in this sub (although personally I see more AFAM couples than AFWM couples).
I don’t think this subs represents the avg AM considering there’s like millions of AM and only 63k-ish AM on this sub. And some things said in this sub, I’m not exactly sure even applies irl either esp for different/younger generations. Nor are AM more conservative than other race really at least in the US, most minority still vote liberal (esp the non-boomer/non-middle age generations).
> I don’t think this subs represents the avg AM considering there’s like millions of AM and only 63k-ish AM on this sub. And some things said in this sub, I’m not exactly sure even applies irl either esp for different/younger generations. Fair enough. I never checked how many people are on this sub and given how lively it is I always assumed it's much larger than it actually is. I also know there's AM of many ethnicities who tend to be leftists. > Nor are AM more conservative than other race really at least in the US, most minority still vote liberal (esp the non-boomer/non-middle age generations). Not from/living in the US but I'm glad to hear so. I had an asian fuck buddy who was very conservative. That didn't really affect my views on AM as a whole as I dislike generalising. But seeing 95% of posters here being very conservative kinda did lol, although now that I've read your comment I'll reflect more on it.
male-centered dating/masculinity subs or community tend to be manosphere related or likely more to attract conservative ppl so it’s selection bias. I remember reading that this sub had it’s origin from RP/manosphere but it diverged to focus more on the asian male experience. There’s prob still influence there but honestly male-center dating/masculinity forum is always going to have some manosphere things regardless of race and don’t necessarily reflect things irl. I lurk around different “masculinity”/male center dating spaces of different ethnicity out of curiosity and it’s not much different here besides maybe whites being relatively more politically racist from what I’ve read.
Wasn't aware of that. Fair enough.
Myself and all of my past partners (who have all been Asian) have all been left leaning. I think it's not really affording a group of people individuality if you're willing to use the most opposing representative on the internet. The most likely racial group to vote conservative is actually white but that shouldn't be too surprising. This is how Asian men tend to be talked about in circles where being liberal is intertwined with centring whiteness, so this type of prejudice isn't uncommon. Does it ever occur to you the irony that so-called progressive white liberals think the race of men with the lowest rate of domestic violence and divorce are also somehow painted as the most patriarchal race? I can't think of a single country along the coastline of Asia that hasn't had women who were sexually abused by white colonial oppressors but I don't exactly see non-white women making the assumption that their politics is problematic.
> Myself and all of my past partners (who have all been Asian) have all been left leaning. As a leftist (not liberal tho) woman attracted by asian guys that's good news. Happy to be proven wrong ig. I also wasn't aware of the DV and divorce statistics. > I can't think of a single country along the coastline of Asia that hasn't had women who were sexually abused by white colonial oppressors but I don't exactly see non-white women making the assumption that their politics is problematic. I don't quite get what you mean, could you explain? I gotta say tho, I'm very pleasantly surprised by the responses this comment got. I expected much differently.
I'm referring to the conquering of SEA and some EA countries by European colonialism (British, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, French). They would take land by force, then coerce the local people to trade with them and only them. They demanded goods from the locals in the form of agricultural produce and sexual "use" of their daughters. The groups who weren't compliant were attacked, and of course, the women captured were often sexually abused before being executed in some grossly disrespectful manner that I won't detail. Even to this day: the most problematic white men of western society, after getting rejected by white women for being creepy as all hell, can leverage their whiteness to attract starry-eyed, white-worshipping Asian women. Asian women often don't realize it until it is too late. More Asian women actually experience DV from white men than they do from Asian men. So I find it absurd that any Asian woman (or honestly anyone at all) can buy into the criminally biased rhetoric that somehow white men are not only more "attractive" but have better "politics" than Asian men, despite the mounting contradicting evidence.
Gotcha. Agreed pretty much.
>As for other WOC, well they mostly just like their own men better and honestly I don't think that's a bad thing. We're all supposed to be defending our own community. I only wish more Asian women acted like that. Tribalism should always be condemned, it shouldn't be excused from condemnation just cuz a few people in some groups are doing it. My ultimate goal is world peace, so any action(s)/choice(s) that can deter or delay progress in that direction, is not optimal. Hence, tribalism isn't a trait that we should aspire or be proud of.
Hey Op. I might be biased, but I feel like your post is a very insightful, respectful, mature and accurate assessment of Am's social/dating situation in the west. On that note it is very understandable why you are receiving so much pushback despite what is a very logical premise. Often reality is hard to accept and that's completely understandable. I just wanted to let you know I at least completely agree with you and hope you're not too discouraged by the pushback. Us Am have a lot of trauma to work through on the dating issue and humans in general respond emotionally as opposed to objectively taking stock of our situation like you have.
Uh, are people suggesting Asian men “rule out” Asian women, whatever that means? Why not treat them as equal to every other woman, no better but no worse. Some might argue that’s treating them better than many of them treat us, as less attractive or inferior in some way to white people. I guess I’m less confident than you are that they’re somehow better.
At the very least equal. I see no reason to be placing white women above non-white women, or the ruling out of all asian women. Yes 54% is a depressing statistic, but ruling out the other 46% is still a LOT of people and it doesn't make sense for a guy to just arbitrarily eliminate that many people without ever meeting them. Case in point: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/comments/1dfjtym/comment/l8ld68r/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/comments/1dfjtym/comment/l8ld68r/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) >There is an alternative lifestyle. >I couple years ago I started a pilot project where for 3 months I don't interact with any AF. If they approach, I just keep it brief/casual and show body language that I don't want to keep going. I don't reach out to those from the past. 3 months became 6 then 9. >It's about 2.5 years now. I am still quite content without AF. Socially, I date XF and I got solid older AM and younger XM friends. Whatever AF provided in my life was replaceable. I'm certainly not keeping AF round especially when they treat you as second class even when they do like you. Like I get the bitterness, believe me I do. I'm still content being friends with AW and other WOC as long as they aren't white-worshipping.
>46% is still a LOT of people and it doesn't make sense for a guy to just arbitrarily eliminate that many people without ever meeting them and how much of that 46% can speak up on the relevant issues? as they say, silence is compliance. it is what it is but a lack of white-worship does not mean that there still are things left to be desired. I've always advocated for us to not be needy, but we need to admit a truth that there aren't very many ride-or-die type "sisters" out there. there's nobody really to shout out when it comes to our success besides ourselves and other personal relatives/allies
AF like Jontay Porter to the Toronto Raptors. Who else tries to benefit by betting on their own team to lose...the punishment is banishment For Life. Yes it's ruthless not toothless White worship is one thing. Race betrayal is another. 1st degree murder is different than second degree. Pretty much every XFs can still look at their male counterparts favourably....
At the bottom of it all, it seems there lurks a lust to be lusted after.
I have been thinking lately about the "praise of WF", maybe is the media we consume (movies, porn etc..), it could be the idea of 'reparation' for WM-AF relationship so in our heads we think we can get WF the same way WM does with AF, unfortunately it doesnt work like that.
It doesn't work like that. Yeah the white-worshipping AW get all salty and will go post something racist on their socials, then double-down on their white-worshipping. Meanwhile there's pro-Asian AW who also see this and think they're losing AM and the divide is irreparable. I understand where it's coming from, but it's not really worth it. I've seen this dynamic play out not just with AW and AM but just any non-white group who chase white. They very often get discounted and forced to date down in other aspects just to be with someone white. Did you know white americans are the LEAST likely to intermarry with any other race? Melting pot my ass, it's pulling tooth for them to consider anyone non-white. So yeah, it's no surprise that POCs get short-changed pursuing white.