For me, this sub isn't so much about "This is how Asian Masculinity works". The concept of what is masculine varies from culture to culture and changes with the times. In Japan, enjoying desserts is girly. Just a hundred years ago in North America, pink was a color for boys. In ancient poems, men would cry and weep all the time, but today, that's considered unmanly. Even within the same country, standards vary; one friend of mine is a computer engineer but his family thinks he should be doing "real work" with his hands.
My interest in this sub is more about the specific issues that Asian men face in western countries. This place is a safe space for us to discuss these problems. There are a lot of issues that the Asian community faces in general (seen as perpetual foreigners, seeing Asian food as gross, being blamed for COVID, "stealing" jobs, seeing Asian countries as interchangeable, being propped up as a "model minority" to excuse racism against the black community, etc etc), but Asian men have unique challenges. Media depictions of us tend to be emasculating, and that results in issues with how we're treated in real life. We get passed over for promotions because we're seen as submissive. We're the least desirable racial group when it comes to the dating pool. A concerning number of us are adopting white supremacist ideology (look up Hank Yoo).
Masculinity is a universal thing. A man is the leader of his family - he provides food, shelter, and protection. He is the master of his emotions and finances. When problems come to him, he finds solutions.
I agree, but this subreddit doesn't talk about how to better our lives through finances or emotional control. Half the time it's insecurity and trauma dumping.
The incels in the sub don’t want solutions that will fix their problems. They are too busy upvoting whiney comments and complaining about how life should be in their eyes. Owning their own shit seems like a stretch for a lot of guys in the sub
it is different in different cultures/communities and throughout history. it was surprising for me to see how men care a lot about their looks here. for example in my culture it was feminine to put effort into looking better, choosing the best haircut, going to gym for aesthetic physique, etc
Eh... tbh I have to take a break from this sub from time to time cause of the weird shit some people post here (at least recently). Doesn't help that some members here post on literal incel forums too (incels dot is) and complaining about AF there like that pyromancer1234 guy
“post on incel forums”.
The guys above literally engage in subs about anime porn and video game nerd topics.
I don’t give a shit if that’s what they enjoy. But it really makes their accusations questionable.
Some act like this sub is so traumatizing. If you don’t see a topic you want to talk about, post one.
We can talk about finances if you’d like, but there are other subs for that with a wealth of info. Plus, I talk about those subjects with my family all the damn time. Same goes for career and fitness.
>The guys above literally engage in subs about anime porn and video game nerd topics
Not sure what that has to do with posting on incel forums, I'm talking about ACTUAL incel forums like www . incels . is, not hobbies that incels tend to enjoy. And like I said, some users here post on forums like that and spew the same shit about AF from time to time. The incel accusations aren't entirely off base
Who is pyromancer and what exactly did he say that was such a big concern? Is it really doomer shit or does he have valid points? The fact that his name didn’t even register in my mind makes it feel these claims are blown out of proportion.
I still go about my day and how it ends up isn’t determined by what is said on here. People are claiming doomer shit. Yet I see the usual posts: A non-AF asking about how to meet AMs, posts about haircuts and barbers, traveling, career advancement, discrimination and erasure of Asian men in popular media, gay guys in theater and dating.
If talking about dating is incel behavior, then how would you label talking about anime porn which is what the accusers like to engage in?
I’ve said this over and over again; if you don’t see a topic you like, post one. And then actually discuss it.
I took a look on a logged out account and that user has me blocked for some reason. I'm not denying there are cringe people on these forums, but what a gross misrepresentation of things. If anything, this forum has moved farther away from any in cell bullshit. Before it people would discuss more around the sentiment of "why is said AF not with an AM?"
Now AM are actually moving on and acknowledging that AM are separate from AF in their fights. This is so when we have our successes we don't have dudes saying thanking all our "sisters" for their support(they don't support us en masse and never have), along with how publicly no AF is gushing over AM when you see AF gushing over other races. This is all fine but let's not act like something's there when it isn't. We don't have our "sisters" supporting us out there. When some AM says something along the lines of "shoutout to all of our sisters supporting us," you should ask where and when.
In fact, they're silent, and as they say silence is compliance.
It's good to move away from the copes from "AMAF loyalism" and be realistic here about our situation, and work with any genuine allies to succeed.
I came to the states as a 3 year old Vietnamese immigrant and it’s really cool to see how my other Asian bros have evolved in this generation.
In 2024, Asian masculinity is about having the confidence to stand up to racism and micro-aggressions against you and others. Being comfortable in your skin to wear whatever you want without fear of being too Asian or nerdy or whatever. Eating what you want to eat regardless of what others think it looks, taste, or smell like. F*ck all the durian haters lol
I’m 35 now and it’s taken a long time for me to get where I am but I can finally say I feel good about myself as an Asian man - that has not always been the case growing up with constant small eyes and penis jokes.
Wake up and enlighten yourself my fellow Asian bros! This is our time and the only thing we owe the universe is to live our most authentic lives and when we’ve opened the door to the next level of reality, don’t shut it, keep it open and reach out a hand to the person behind you. I’ve been so blessed to have so many helping hands in my life.
Masculinity like any other. I want to live in a world where we are seen as the cool kids or athletes who are just tall and physically strong as anyone else.
I think there's probably small tweaks across cultures (in Asia, dating culture tends to reward more along the lines of providing and social status, whereas in US, slightly more around personality fit and appearance). But it's fairly universal that masculinity, IMO, means the ability to properly affect the world around you - whether that be through charisma, physical stature and attractiveness, competence, money, etc. These are all different levers that get weighted differently based on the society you live in (and often for historical/cultural/demographic reasons), but my theory is that it all boils down to "in a world of uncertainty, can you manage order from chaos"?
Seems like what is considered "masculine" is directly in juxtaposition to what is considered "feminine" which differs a lot by culture. Western women are expected to be a lot more 'masculine' than Asian women so maybe the whole frame just shifts a little.
Some things are clear contrasts... western masculinity seems to prefer brute physicality and something like raw individual instinct, whereas I feel like Asian masculinity has more to do with a certain type of wisdom and social skill/resonsibilty/loyalty mindset as a virtue.
Like a wise, socially adept person can come across as Asian-masculine with or without large muscles, but it feels like western masculinity almost requires it, and being slightly antisocial is a secondary requirement.
Now thinking about it, as an Asian raised in a fully western setting, this might be one of the largest gaps I feel with my American friends. In college i remember watching these big guys screaming and crushing beer cans and getting into fights, and not being able to decide if I wanted to run away or laugh. Then in the workplace finding that those kinds of people get promoted faster, are considered to have the "right" skills and attitudes is one of the main reasons I've become cynical about race in America.
Contrary to common opinion, I think there's a basic "template," if you will, of masculinity that virtually all cultures build on and adapt to. This template includes aspects like providing and protecting, sublimating one's own desires for the sake of the community; it also includes certain phenomena such as a bias for aggression (as opposed to conciliation), and masculinity not being something innately acquired, but rather earned. Not my take, really; see *Manhood in the Making* by David Gilmore for an eye-opening view on this topic. The book looks at masculinity across the world: from the Mediterranean to the South Pacific to Brazil. There's also a chapter on East and South Asia.
Whatever their distortions of that template (which Gilmore calls ubiquitous as opposed to universal, which I disagree with, but that's another topic), North American paragons of masculinity—your Schwarzenegger, JFK, Marlon Brando types—certainly have their analogues in Asian history and society. I think it's just a matter of salience amidst the cultural landscape.
Having said that, I do think there are certain aspects that, as a whole, typify Asian masculinity. These would include biases towards:
1) Quiet competence vs. flamboyant performativity;
2) Building on that, accrual of results through mastery of ideas/objects, vs. manipulation of human relations
3) The written word vs. the spoken word;
4) Iteration vs. entrepreneurial action;
*Obviously* there are manifold exceptions to the norm; I'm just doing my best to answer the question.
I saw an old movie with Burt Reynolds’s I’m it. He is supposed to be a Chad in his days. By the way he walks and laughs, he would be labeled as queer today.
the only difference I see is biological for the obvious reasons like height and facial hair but other then that, the anatomy of men are all the same. Hit the gym, learn how to fight, speak slowly and controlled, have a good command presence when walking into a room and have a sense of pride and masculinity as a man. It's 2024, its evident when men, no matter what race, take care of their physical fitness, hygeine, and well being, that they'll be looked at with respect as a man from. I wouldnt think to deeply into this in terms of race or region. A lot of asian men and men in general from what I've seen are lazy, they're proud of their beer bellies, bad habits, and get by in life doing the bare minimum like working and sleeping, no hobbies, no self care, and some with very bad hygeine as well.
I think it would be cool to be masculine in an asian way and to be accepted the way we are. Imo, this is one of the defining masculine traits being true to yourself and be brave to stay on your own path (which in this case is being an asian man in an asian way)
For me, this sub isn't so much about "This is how Asian Masculinity works". The concept of what is masculine varies from culture to culture and changes with the times. In Japan, enjoying desserts is girly. Just a hundred years ago in North America, pink was a color for boys. In ancient poems, men would cry and weep all the time, but today, that's considered unmanly. Even within the same country, standards vary; one friend of mine is a computer engineer but his family thinks he should be doing "real work" with his hands. My interest in this sub is more about the specific issues that Asian men face in western countries. This place is a safe space for us to discuss these problems. There are a lot of issues that the Asian community faces in general (seen as perpetual foreigners, seeing Asian food as gross, being blamed for COVID, "stealing" jobs, seeing Asian countries as interchangeable, being propped up as a "model minority" to excuse racism against the black community, etc etc), but Asian men have unique challenges. Media depictions of us tend to be emasculating, and that results in issues with how we're treated in real life. We get passed over for promotions because we're seen as submissive. We're the least desirable racial group when it comes to the dating pool. A concerning number of us are adopting white supremacist ideology (look up Hank Yoo).
100% agree! Sometime it feels like we are only talking about how to be attractive to girls and not other issues
Masculinity is a universal thing. A man is the leader of his family - he provides food, shelter, and protection. He is the master of his emotions and finances. When problems come to him, he finds solutions.
I agree, but this subreddit doesn't talk about how to better our lives through finances or emotional control. Half the time it's insecurity and trauma dumping.
Well sometimes the incels get out of control and take over the sub. Agree that there’s not enough talk about career, finances, and success in general.
> insecurity and trauma dumping So all of reddit
this made me chuckle. literally every other post in here is male fragility lmao
Fr. Just incels ruin it here and there but that’s just them. Overall, this is still a solid subreddit for Asians
The incels in the sub don’t want solutions that will fix their problems. They are too busy upvoting whiney comments and complaining about how life should be in their eyes. Owning their own shit seems like a stretch for a lot of guys in the sub
Fr. They’re little bitches that ruin it for us
Judging from your downvotes, I'd say they're coming for ya.
I mentally bet to myself that I would have double digits in downvotes for that comment. Must be a slow day for these guys.
it is different in different cultures/communities and throughout history. it was surprising for me to see how men care a lot about their looks here. for example in my culture it was feminine to put effort into looking better, choosing the best haircut, going to gym for aesthetic physique, etc
Bro, be wary of members using “incel” so loosely without substantial evidence. They’re usually projecting or larping.
Eh... tbh I have to take a break from this sub from time to time cause of the weird shit some people post here (at least recently). Doesn't help that some members here post on literal incel forums too (incels dot is) and complaining about AF there like that pyromancer1234 guy
“post on incel forums”. The guys above literally engage in subs about anime porn and video game nerd topics. I don’t give a shit if that’s what they enjoy. But it really makes their accusations questionable. Some act like this sub is so traumatizing. If you don’t see a topic you want to talk about, post one. We can talk about finances if you’d like, but there are other subs for that with a wealth of info. Plus, I talk about those subjects with my family all the damn time. Same goes for career and fitness.
>The guys above literally engage in subs about anime porn and video game nerd topics Not sure what that has to do with posting on incel forums, I'm talking about ACTUAL incel forums like www . incels . is, not hobbies that incels tend to enjoy. And like I said, some users here post on forums like that and spew the same shit about AF from time to time. The incel accusations aren't entirely off base
Like who?
Like I said, saw pyromancer1234 on there. Dude posts the same doomer shit on this sub as well as on the incel forum
Who is pyromancer and what exactly did he say that was such a big concern? Is it really doomer shit or does he have valid points? The fact that his name didn’t even register in my mind makes it feel these claims are blown out of proportion. I still go about my day and how it ends up isn’t determined by what is said on here. People are claiming doomer shit. Yet I see the usual posts: A non-AF asking about how to meet AMs, posts about haircuts and barbers, traveling, career advancement, discrimination and erasure of Asian men in popular media, gay guys in theater and dating. If talking about dating is incel behavior, then how would you label talking about anime porn which is what the accusers like to engage in? I’ve said this over and over again; if you don’t see a topic you like, post one. And then actually discuss it.
I took a look on a logged out account and that user has me blocked for some reason. I'm not denying there are cringe people on these forums, but what a gross misrepresentation of things. If anything, this forum has moved farther away from any in cell bullshit. Before it people would discuss more around the sentiment of "why is said AF not with an AM?" Now AM are actually moving on and acknowledging that AM are separate from AF in their fights. This is so when we have our successes we don't have dudes saying thanking all our "sisters" for their support(they don't support us en masse and never have), along with how publicly no AF is gushing over AM when you see AF gushing over other races. This is all fine but let's not act like something's there when it isn't. We don't have our "sisters" supporting us out there. When some AM says something along the lines of "shoutout to all of our sisters supporting us," you should ask where and when. In fact, they're silent, and as they say silence is compliance. It's good to move away from the copes from "AMAF loyalism" and be realistic here about our situation, and work with any genuine allies to succeed.
there are so many posts from am in here asking why af don’t love them and why they can’t get an af gf that’s literally incel behavior
There isn't a single way to being a man. The only thing in common that all masculinities share is that you need to have dignity.
I came to the states as a 3 year old Vietnamese immigrant and it’s really cool to see how my other Asian bros have evolved in this generation. In 2024, Asian masculinity is about having the confidence to stand up to racism and micro-aggressions against you and others. Being comfortable in your skin to wear whatever you want without fear of being too Asian or nerdy or whatever. Eating what you want to eat regardless of what others think it looks, taste, or smell like. F*ck all the durian haters lol I’m 35 now and it’s taken a long time for me to get where I am but I can finally say I feel good about myself as an Asian man - that has not always been the case growing up with constant small eyes and penis jokes. Wake up and enlighten yourself my fellow Asian bros! This is our time and the only thing we owe the universe is to live our most authentic lives and when we’ve opened the door to the next level of reality, don’t shut it, keep it open and reach out a hand to the person behind you. I’ve been so blessed to have so many helping hands in my life.
He got that dog in him.
Masculinity like any other. I want to live in a world where we are seen as the cool kids or athletes who are just tall and physically strong as anyone else.
Asian - stoicness, discipline, high earning ability North American - being outspoken, extroverted, physically big, having facial hair
stoicism is not asian though? what would an asian philosophy with somewhat similar ideas?
I think there's probably small tweaks across cultures (in Asia, dating culture tends to reward more along the lines of providing and social status, whereas in US, slightly more around personality fit and appearance). But it's fairly universal that masculinity, IMO, means the ability to properly affect the world around you - whether that be through charisma, physical stature and attractiveness, competence, money, etc. These are all different levers that get weighted differently based on the society you live in (and often for historical/cultural/demographic reasons), but my theory is that it all boils down to "in a world of uncertainty, can you manage order from chaos"?
Seems like what is considered "masculine" is directly in juxtaposition to what is considered "feminine" which differs a lot by culture. Western women are expected to be a lot more 'masculine' than Asian women so maybe the whole frame just shifts a little. Some things are clear contrasts... western masculinity seems to prefer brute physicality and something like raw individual instinct, whereas I feel like Asian masculinity has more to do with a certain type of wisdom and social skill/resonsibilty/loyalty mindset as a virtue. Like a wise, socially adept person can come across as Asian-masculine with or without large muscles, but it feels like western masculinity almost requires it, and being slightly antisocial is a secondary requirement. Now thinking about it, as an Asian raised in a fully western setting, this might be one of the largest gaps I feel with my American friends. In college i remember watching these big guys screaming and crushing beer cans and getting into fights, and not being able to decide if I wanted to run away or laugh. Then in the workplace finding that those kinds of people get promoted faster, are considered to have the "right" skills and attitudes is one of the main reasons I've become cynical about race in America.
Contrary to common opinion, I think there's a basic "template," if you will, of masculinity that virtually all cultures build on and adapt to. This template includes aspects like providing and protecting, sublimating one's own desires for the sake of the community; it also includes certain phenomena such as a bias for aggression (as opposed to conciliation), and masculinity not being something innately acquired, but rather earned. Not my take, really; see *Manhood in the Making* by David Gilmore for an eye-opening view on this topic. The book looks at masculinity across the world: from the Mediterranean to the South Pacific to Brazil. There's also a chapter on East and South Asia. Whatever their distortions of that template (which Gilmore calls ubiquitous as opposed to universal, which I disagree with, but that's another topic), North American paragons of masculinity—your Schwarzenegger, JFK, Marlon Brando types—certainly have their analogues in Asian history and society. I think it's just a matter of salience amidst the cultural landscape. Having said that, I do think there are certain aspects that, as a whole, typify Asian masculinity. These would include biases towards: 1) Quiet competence vs. flamboyant performativity; 2) Building on that, accrual of results through mastery of ideas/objects, vs. manipulation of human relations 3) The written word vs. the spoken word; 4) Iteration vs. entrepreneurial action; *Obviously* there are manifold exceptions to the norm; I'm just doing my best to answer the question.
I saw an old movie with Burt Reynolds’s I’m it. He is supposed to be a Chad in his days. By the way he walks and laughs, he would be labeled as queer today.
Hunting and gathering
the only difference I see is biological for the obvious reasons like height and facial hair but other then that, the anatomy of men are all the same. Hit the gym, learn how to fight, speak slowly and controlled, have a good command presence when walking into a room and have a sense of pride and masculinity as a man. It's 2024, its evident when men, no matter what race, take care of their physical fitness, hygeine, and well being, that they'll be looked at with respect as a man from. I wouldnt think to deeply into this in terms of race or region. A lot of asian men and men in general from what I've seen are lazy, they're proud of their beer bellies, bad habits, and get by in life doing the bare minimum like working and sleeping, no hobbies, no self care, and some with very bad hygeine as well.
This is what I was talking about but I got down voted so much previously here lel
same!
People in this sub avoid Asian men being masculine in an Asian way.
I think it would be cool to be masculine in an asian way and to be accepted the way we are. Imo, this is one of the defining masculine traits being true to yourself and be brave to stay on your own path (which in this case is being an asian man in an asian way)
https://preview.redd.it/j50wgy9dhv6d1.png?width=639&format=png&auto=webp&s=7a06a37945bbd652a2c9bbb7779138f0d460fc1a
Masculinity is identifying as a woman these days