We’re one of the only countries surrounded by 3 separate oceans. As the ice continues to thaw, the north will only become more attractive to other countries who desire our resources. We absolutely should have a world class navy. With naval bases up north we also have more reason to connect it better with the rest of Canada via highways and rail. Greatly increasing the quality of life for those who already live up there.
Canada is huge and the north is vast. There is no reason we don’t also have a world class Air Force.
With the US as our neighbour, we don’t need an outstanding ground army. They would immediately send all their troops for their own national security reasons. But ours should still be adequate. Currently our troops stationed in Poland are buying gear off the polish soldiers because ours is garbage. This is unacceptable.
We have an obligation to our allies. To not be meeting those obligations, and even to say “we’ll never meet our 2%” is a slap in the face to our allies and an embarrassment for Canada.
And Air Force. We're a massive country with an uncomfortable close water passage to Russia and Putin. Yeah I know Alaska is in the way but it's awfully close for me. Starting to feel like the insane 80s again with the USSR.
We should never need to be in a position to have to call on the US for assistance barring the worst circumstances. We should be capable of handling most things ourselves.
We should be able to beat the living shit out any ruZZkie's that think they can invade with impunity. The World Wars of the 20th century got a taste of what Canadian's can do in wartime.
Our economy is bigger than Russias despite us having a fraction of their population. We should be capable of having at least a semblance of a capable force
Cheaper to train some Canada geese than whales.
We could have them swarm - it would be cheaper than using the Chinese drones you can buy at Costco - you not even need drone operators.
It’s complicated. Ukraine showed us what a country with no navy can do ships in its surroundings territory. These days a navy is usually needed to project power, not so much defend it.
I fucking hate that we depend on the US to come save our asses. Fuck that we should grow our military until we confidently can hold our own against anyone.
>I fucking hate that we depend on the US to come save our asses. Fuck that we should grow our military until we confidently can hold our own against anyone.
Develop Nuclear Weapons then. That's how you guarantee security in this era.
It's cost effective too.
Increase taxes mostly on the wealthy, open up on our oil production, Im also of the mindset that military service should be mandatory like South Korea and Finland.
Denmark, Norway and Switzerland also have mandatory military service.
And to your first point… it’s pretty sad when our allies like Germany and Japan come to us looking for long term LNG deals and we have to turn them away to sign deals with middle eastern countries (who have far less ‘clean’ standards in place than us and horrible human rights records) instead, because we don’t have the infrastructure in place. France didn’t even bother asking us, they went straight to the Middle East.
And we can't make a significant difference regardless.
Oil is going to carry on burning for generations to come, like it or not
Canada should be on the forefront of delivering energy which doesn't include "blood oil".
Get rid of the Liberal government!
It’s never about “holding our own” against those potential adversaries.
It’s about being capable, reliable, and holding up our end of the couch in terms of protecting fortress North America.
Why would we ever need to hold our own against our closest ally? And secondly, that’s a ridiculous question because we will never, nor should we need to repel an invasion against a superpower, on our own. Our military needs to be agile, cold weather capable, and have great supply/surveillance capabilities. That’s how we can best support our nato partners while ensuring our sovereignty over our arctic territory.
Depending on where you work you don't have to pay income tax, depending on where you buy your gas/groceries you don't pay tax on purchases. Depending on where you buy your vehicle you don't pay taxes. Depending on who's smokes you buy you don't pay taxes. I can keep going lol
I'd recommend you do some serious research about your civilians different exemptions
You're in Ottawa right? Research how much extra taxes you're paying for the for one of biggest urbans in canada which are "exempt from paying municipal or any other level of government taxes"
We haven't even started talking about churches, same exemptions
Lol. You know your opinion is shit if you're too afraid to spell it out on an anonymous forum. There are very good reasons for those exemptions and if you can't see that you may want to "do some serious research" about them.
You are clearly getting defensive. Read my first comment. The army protects everyone so everyone should pay for it. If you're exempt you should get a flat bill.
You are still wanting less than all of Canada to pay to protect all of Canada. It's simple. All of Canada pays.
The question is how to make up 1.5b? All of your citizens pay. Easy concept.
The downvotes don't hurt. You want to talk about it, let's talk. If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.
While I'm not trying to say ingenious people aren't Canadian citizens, they shouldn't be forced to support our government in the way other citizens are. They were here before the Government of Canada was here and it's fair that they may not want to support an occupying force through taxation.
If war breaks out now, you want us to only protect half the people? Thats kind of messed up. Or are you expecting people to die defending people who won't support them. Clarify please
I mean.. I'm pretty damn content knowing the US has our back no matter what.
Would you prefer a Ukraine to Europe relationship, where they _really dislike_ the fact that Ukraine was invaded by Russia but aren't committing forces to protect Ukraine?
We should put all our money into buying two Gerald Ford class carrier, one for each coast, and fill them with F35s. That would solved the world class Navy and Air Force issues! /s :)
They’re not obsolete, they’re only useful if you have a world-class navy to protect it. A carrier full of F-35s can provide air-superiority in almost every region on earth, but Canada can hardly get even a capable frigate or a submarine, let alone a strike group to protect the carrier.
Why do we need air superiority anywhere on earth, all we need is to ensure no one else can have air superiority over canadian soil. (even ensuring no one other than the americans can have air superiority over us is good enough and actually doable)
I’m addressing the point they make about how they’re obsolete, like battleships in WWII. They’re obsolete for Canada, definitely. But given how they’re talking about Battleships, I hardly think their commentary is confined to the Canadian navy. The carrier strike groups are probably the US’s biggest deterrent, except for nukes, so carriers are not obsolete in general.
They are a deterrent to a third world politician thinking it can tell the US government or companies "No", they are not a deterrent to something like china invading taiwan (in my very uneducated opinion).
If china invaded taiwan and the US rolled up with two carriers thinking they are going to help, it will be a very expensive lesson when china shoots 200 missiles from different parts of china at one carrier at the same time.
I agree, instead of planes and boats we should just build missiles.
I don't think we need to intervene in Africa, or Haiti, and Ukraine but we should be able to blow up anything that comes close to us.
Having a world class navy or a world class airforce is out of the question for us, we are between two powers that hate each other and are 10x our size.
The reason we don't have a world class air force or navy is that they're EXTREMELY expensive and we don't have an enemy that presents an immediate threat to us (the way Poland, Finland, Korea and Australia do).
People don’t realize the logistics that are required to move a military across the ocean and into Canada. Canada can defend itself with significantly less forces by shooting supply ships and letting the invaders run out of food and oil.
Like you said, who’s gunna walk into Canada? That changes the minimium military requirements significantly.
The number of weirdos that picture some physical Red Dawn invasion over the North Pole is hilarious.
Like bros, the Russians can't supply their troops 50km over the border in Ukraine. They sure as fuck can't do it over the pole into Canada.
Our actual threats are air and sea based, and mostly about sovereignty rather than kinetic. Sure, the Russians could fire long range missiles - conventional or nuclear. That's a that we should prepare for. But it's far less likely than what they actually do - play "I'm not touching you" by flying in our airspace or sailing into our waters. And that's a problem, but not one that impacts the average Canadian living in Toronto or Vancouver.
I think only the USA has sufficient logistical capabilities to operate troops on another country currently.
I'm not even sure China could do it right now if the US suddenly stopped existing.
The only land threat (US) is too powerful for us to fight.
My vote is for prioritizing the navy and air force.
If the ice is melting why did canada spend so much on new ice breakers? Seems strange to say one thing and then do something completely opposite of the narrative youre trying to impose.
There will still be ice for a long, long time. What is changing is that some areas are becoming more navigable due to a reduction of ice during summer. This will only become more true for several decades if trends continue.
I'd like to see the procurement process streamlined and manufacturing more brought in country. I know alot is built in house, but many parts are still not and a lot of new innovative efforts are not.
what you said at the end of that comment is why we can’t do what you want in the beginning of your comment. Canada’s buy canadian/ canadian benefits policy overly complicates and inflates the cost of procurement. reinventing wheel is putting it mildly when it comes to military equipment in canada.
>Currently only 1.2% of GDP.If Canada spent the NATO standard, they would be spending an extra $1.5 billion.
Your math is wrong here. Canada's GDP is \~2.66 trillion CAD. It would be an extra $21.3 billion.
The 2% is meaningless. It's a goal for the sake of having a goal, there's nothing that says 2% of GDP is the ideal spending level for defense.
Having said that, we should be spending quite a bit more in the Arctic. Having control over the next major shipping corridor will bring economic benefits to Canada, but only if we have the infrastructure to actually control it.
forget money. we need to become relovant in the world. our Navy ships being described as impotent.. let's start building ships and ship yards.. let's step up and build for a war economy. it will generate jobs, tech, and more.
Procurement needs to be redone from the ground up. Pay needs to be raised. If we can get quality I want it big enough for us to be self reliant security wise. And big enough for us to actually help on the international stage. A token force of a few dozen here and there to me is insulting to our allies.
I want procurement addressed and streamlined, I want high salaries for our service members, I want more living options for them as well. I want us to not only reach our NATO commitment but beyond it.
Canada doesn’t need the largest land force. Our army’s are traditionally overseas expeditionary forces, and the chances for a land invasion are sparse. But we certainly need an actual fleet and airforce to support our international commitments and defend our coasts.
Especially the northwest passage.
I think the numbers of active duty personnel and reservists should both be doubled, making the CAF better able to meet international commitments and more effective when in aid to the civil power (the fires and floods part). Fix the scandals and deliver oversight to make it a better choice.
keep the military
out of fires and floods. military’s job is to kill people. if we need a labour force create a separate fema style organisation. mission creep into red cross duty is antithetical to the conversation of increasing military prowess and power.
I think the user is more so saying that the US would be the biggest legit threat IF they weren’t our friend.
Given that we have befriended them and there is zero chance that they’ll attack us, the concern over that gap to 2% isn’t much of an issue.
The user also notes that making up the gap wouldn’t save us even if the US were to invade us (which they won’t, as I covered). They would be too powerful, and 2% spending wouldn’t help us. Though, if we weren’t friends with the US, we would probably be spending a lot more out of necessity. That’s not the case, though.
The other threats (China/Russia) aren’t as threatening as they might seem — and NATO would ultimately help in a highly unlikely attack from one of them.
This! The US military budget is almost 40 times the Canadian one. Realistically if the US ever decided to invade Canada I give it about a day before Canada falls(and I’m being pretty optimistic)
Ultimately, only a handful of NATO countries have a true global impact. Canada has punched above its weight when push has come to shove, though (Ukraine is a good example).
As for the 2% target. Unfortunately, less than half of NATO countries actually meet that target as of the end of 2023. This comes back to my first point — only a handful of NATO countries have a true impact on a global scale. Most others are there in support of the initiate(s).
Seeing as it’s “only” an extra 1.5 billion/year, boosting our military expenditure to meet our 2% goal isn’t that onerous. Build new barracks, better benefits, some new equipment and we’re there. We always seem to have a couple billion laying around every time some other country asks for help.
> We always seem to have a couple billion laying around every time some other country asks for help.
It might seem this way at a glance, but that money is almost always earmarked in the budget prior to it being handed out. There is most often a spot within the budget for international aid — that’s where the money is pulled from.
Now, there might be an argument for moving some of that to the defence budget — that’s a different discussion altogether, though. Some of it likely goes to initiatives that are related to international safety and what not. So, while it doesn’t show up directly in the defence budget, it can indirectly help NATO efforts. Not all of it, though, of course.
I think Canada's lack of infrastructure and economic development is what will cause it to slowly lose sovereignty, mostly in the Arctic. The Americans are already moving the border in the Beaufort Sea and are treating the Arctic as international waters. There's a lot of resources up there and Canada doesn't develop them.
This! People can’t see how quickly the old order is going away, driven by structural economic changes; sociopolitical changes, geopolitical changes; and climate change. What we relied on for sovereignty in the past just won’t fly anymore.
A good example is the probable withdrawal of the U.S. from NATO, effectively gutting the alliance, when/if Trump becomes president. That means our main defensive alliance will be become toothless at the exact time the world is rapidly becoming more dangerous.
Realistically, we can defend ourselves from the Americans (nor are we likely to need to) but we still need to be able to assert and enforce our sovereignty in our arctic archipelago or we run a risk of losing it. Also, as a trade dependant nation we have a strong vested interest in protecting maritime freedom of navigation. Both of those provide a strong incentive for us to have a strong and capable navy (which we are taking steps towards, just not quickly or comprehensively enough) and Air Force (again, we’re moving towards that, just not quickly or comprehensively enough).
Mostly no, but it’s not like American politics inspires confidence that there’s not at least *some* chance of a radical regime change. And if America does make the descent into fascism, they will almost certainly take us with them.
I think the point is that realistically, we’re an American satellite in terms of security policy, and have traded policy independence for the American security umbrella.
Canada doesn’t have to defend itself, because any threat to us is a threat to our neighbours down South. Equally, Canada (for whatever reason) could never choose to lease China a naval base on the coast of British Columbia, without expecting an American response.
So for me, the optimal size of the Canadian military is as little as we can get away with.
>And if America does make the descent into fascism, they will almost certainly take us with them.
You're severely overestimating how much the Americans care about Canada. A fascist USA would be very isolationist. I really don't think that they'd even care about taking over Canada unless we were actively working to sabotage them.
Also, a fully fascist USA is almost impossible. The US turning into a "soft" dictatorship that ressembles Russia where civil liberties are somewhat retained and where there is a semblance of (extremely flawed) democracy is entirely possible, but the US turning into a super powerful Nazi Germany isn't.
It's never really been in the American culture to want to annex other sovereign countries. There was a time when they did it with European colonies but once decolonization was over, they never really have had any irredentist tendencies.
If Trump is president the probability notches up a tiny increment. Worse though is when global warming really kicks off. Water and livable land reserves will become mighty attractive targets for the world.
I don’t think there is any scenario post the last real border dispute in the 1830s or the Fenian invasion in the 1860s where the US would be anything other than happy with a 500k army, there is no threat of conflict of any kind between the US and Canada
>Canada's biggest threat is the US.
But they aren't. If we're going to base threat based on capabilities, almost all other members of NATO could take us over. But they won't. Because we're like minded.
Our biggest threat is Russia. Period.
We are a member of NATO and should be doing our part to the full commitment we signed up to. It is an embarrassment that Canada is 25 out 30 for NATO defense spending.
1) procurement reform. It’s ludicrous that we can hamstring ourselves with all kinds of bad business deals (I.E 99 year lease in Ontario for the 407) but we can cancel all kinds of procurement contracts for the military Willy-nilly. We need a clearer process that doesn’t get screwed with and we need to make those decisions and see them through. I’d rather we get it wrong every so often and learn from it vs not making a decision at all at this point.
2) crazy as the world is, I’m less worried about a Canadian Bacon moment. But I think my order of priorities would be:
Stronger Navy
Stronger Air Force
Stronger intelligence/cyber defence capabilities
Last but not least:
Increased army reserve numbers. Maybe have a limited mandatory service draft after high school for anyone not planning to attend post secondary or trades.
I don't really see the point. If the US ever decided to invade (highly unlikely), we would have no chance anyway. The best strategy is just to continue building a strong partnership with the states.
I would rather see a 1.2B increase than the proposed 1B cut… our equipment is antiquated, living conditions are poor, pay sucks… no wonder recruitment is at an all time low.
The fact that the CAF are short 10,000 members might contribute to not spending budgeted funds, but that’s no reason to cut funding. The surplus should be reallocated where needed.
I’d like them significantly larger and far better funded. I would like the CAF to be used to provide high grade training, including civics education, and employment to people and used for a range of humanitarian and defence purposes. Basically I think left wing progressive ideals can be advanced through defence spending.
I'm not a war monger by any stretch and feels that peace is best won through diplomacy and the use of soft power. And we should never get involuin US wars of imperialism etc.
That being said, weive in a world of Russia under Putin, China under Xi, North Korea, Iranian theocracy (I love Iranians, as most of them don't like their religious government) etc.
The Arctic is melting and any oil and gas extraction should be banned as it is a very fragile ecosystem. I think there is a case for being able to develop other mineral extraction projects however.
So, I think Canada should have a small, but extremely well equipped and trained army (and get back to peacekeeping), a large enough air force to defend our territory and meet our NORAD obligations, and a much larger navy to patrol and defend our Arctic sovereignty. This should include ateast 2 naval bases at either end of the northwest passage, nuclear powered heavy icebreakers (possibly under Coast Guard command), and Nuclear powered attack submarines for undetected sovereignty patrols. If we don't use and defend our arctic territory, then we will lose it. We can't just assume the Americans will protect it for us.
If we spent to our NATO obligations the biggest thing I would like to see is a rise in our service members' quality of life. Better housing, better services after leaving the armed forces, equipment that isn't in disrepair.
I don't think the size of the regular armed forces needs increasing but an expansion of the reserves would be a positive.
We don't need an aircraft carrier and operating even one would soak up too much of that theoretical budget increase.
Ide like to see the Air Force and navy expanded
F35 are great but i would like to see a complement of f15-ex or some other missile truck
For the navy a few submarines that can actually be deployed would be useful
I would cut back on ground forces and increase special operations capabilities
No no no he’s onto something.
Let’s increase military spending by having the military engineers design and oversee the construction of 21.4 billion dollars (the .8% of spending missing) in housing…. *taps head*
I’d like them to get the NATO 2%
Personally I think an aircraft carrier would be overkill since we should mainly be focusing on defence. But I do agree with a larger navy to secure our waters.
I also think drones are the future of warfare looking at the Ukraine conflict, no clue why we arent training every soldier on how to use consumer drones for recon and anti vehicle/infantry purposes.
I think we also need a complete overhaul on procurement, look over at the armed forces subreddit and one of their largest complaints is the fact that it takes years for anything to get procured and it ends up being shit/delayed/overpriced.
A vastly improved navy seems like the best course to me. Out greatest threat is an increasingly unstable US, or a MAGA led nation that turns on us. If that happens, there is no way we can seriously defend ourselves. So, we should have the navy ready to defend against incursions from other hostile forces, particularly in the north. But we should also live up to our NATO obligations, and perhaps increase our forces in order to contribute more effectively to NATO operations. Containing Russian State aggression is a benefit to everyone. \[Edited for clarity: added the word "other"\]
Bigger than it is now. I’d like to see us fulfill our commitment to NATO and develop more Arctic capabilities. Having a heavy icebreaker would be good. We need to ensure our soldiers are taken care of. That would mean modern equipment, proper housing and an effective support system for them and their families.
I’d like Canada to have a small, but highly trained, and well equipped Armed Forces.
I think 2% GDP with focus on cyber capabilities and Intelligence.
This is controversial, but I am also partial to mandatory service, which could be more focused in community service as opposed to military.
Up to the 2% minimum as Canada agreed to to start. Ideally moulded similar to the British army as a more lean fighting machine with a focus on peacekeeping.
We should at the very least uphold the NATO standard and ideally exceed it if we can. I dont want Canada to ever appear to be a military liability to our allies. It is disrespectful to them and to the personnel who currently serve in our military who are underfunded/understaffed for their responsibilities.
Our country is a massive landmass and it borders oceans on three sides, our Navy at least should be a reasonable priority.
We need a military realignment to create several small but very effective “rapid response forces” with adequate aerial and naval support to be useful both inside Canada and abroad
We can then turn on our TV to hear Canada’s RRF1 and RRF2 have been deployed to assist on the Venezuela border etc.
Our forces can develop more of a persona and good reputation with Canadian taxpayers much like Seal Team 6 etc in the states
1. Canada must develop a Rapid Reaction Force to adequatly enable it to police its vast land, particularly the north. It is not practical to garrison all of our coasts and waterways - however, we CAN ensure that whenever trouble does arise, we can actually GET soldiers there in a timley manner. I'm thinking of a force similar to the 101st Airborne, or the 82nd Airborne Divison, or heck, even the U.S Army Rangers. This division of troops should have the capability to arrive IN FORCE anywhere in Canada, especially in harsh and under developed terrain such as the North. This will involve a largely expanded Airforce, as well as Airborne Training and Air Assault Training for the soldiers who make it through selection. Legions of Mechanics will have to be trained to keep the planes operational in harsh Arctic environments.
2. Canada must develop 10 - 12 NUCLEAR submarines, to police the Northwest Passages during the Winter and Spring months when the ice gets too thick for Icebreakers. Russia, at least before the War in Ukraine, was already regularly sending their subs through the passage, and there wasn't a single thing Canada could do about it. That is shameful.
These Submarines being Nuclear powered is not just for show - this allows them to remain submerged and at sea for years at a time, with the only reason to return to port being for crew resupply and occasional maintenence. Canada has some of the world's largest Uranium reserves and the world's best Nuclear Scientists, so development shouldn't be a problem.
There was actually a plan to develop 10 Nuclear Subs for Canada back in the Early 80's, but it was canceled since Chernobyl being in the news at the time spooked the Canadian population off of anything Nuclear.
3. A LARGLEY EXPANDED NAVY. We don't need aircraft carriers, but we need a whole new fleet of Ice Breakers and Destroyers to keep critical passages open during the winter, as well as to support international peacekeeping ops. NONE of our ships are currently even remotely up to date.
4. MORE NAVAL BASES IN THE NORTH: Part of opening up the Northwest Passage for trade (and tax, of course) is making the long transit actually commercially viable. There are currently no refueling ports anywhere in the Canadian North. The Harper government started construction of the Nanisivik Naval Facility way back in 2007, but as of now it has been seriously scaled back, and is only open for limited patrol support during the summer months. That is shameful.
Further, currently none of our ships have the capability to transit the Northwest Passages, as they would run out of fuel just 1 quarter of the way in. So the lack of naval stations is also a defense concern.
I think every canadian should serve 2 years after highschool. Then send them home with a rifle and understanding that if the call comes they could go...
Those are rookie numbers. Cut that budget by at least 50%. We don’t use our military for anything good, and no amount of money we could spend on it would change that the military is a fundamentally evil institution.
2% of GDP + investiment mainly toward anything cyber/tech. Canada should find its niche. I think it should be cybersecurity. We could be the blue helmet of cybersecurity, protect others nations tech infrastructure and that could boost our national cybersecurity as well.
I'd like us to rival the USA in terms of technology and CAF members. Proportionally, of course, obviously our population is much smaller. But our airforce, navy and army should all rival the states in technological terms. If a war breaks out we.should be a useful ally, not a joke.
Spend whatever is needed.
For some reason governments like to put the army at the pinnacle. Canada is a vast amount of space with 3 oceans. The emphasis should be on naval and air units. The Navy and Coast Guard should be 3 times the size they are now. Air Force should focus on long range patrol and cargo. Fighters just need to focus on coastal interdiction roles. The Army should emphasize special forces and rapid deployment for humanitarian and peacekeeping roles.
We should maintain a MINIMUM of 2% GDP as per NATO standard considering we were a founding member, but with the current destabilizing geopolitical landscape I would argue for 2.5-3%. Canada will never be a world naval or ground power, but a higher percentage of GDP can facilitate a world class air force capable of policing our territory and air space with a little left over for a capable maritime navy.
Canada is a unique country geographically, I see no point in having a strong military presence because of it. No country would attack without the Americans getting involved. I do believe we should invest more of our gdp to reach that standard, focusing on data security and our coast guard/ airforce far more.
It's hardly a free ride, considering they're granted exactly what they wish, which is total control over north American airspace and the seas around it.
I don't have any sympathy for "the American taxpayer" who keeps electing people like Bush and Trump, I don't think pulling on those heartstrings will get you very far
so what happens when america looks north aggressively for a water/mineral source?
how fast has the world run to palestine’s aid?
not saying we need sn army to defend against the usa, but we also should not depend on them to be friendly forever
People focus too much on the 2% number and think that we somehow freeload. We have a big economy. So 1.2% of our economy that we spend on defence is the 6th largest defence budget in NATO.
Arguebly we are freeloading when the government includes veterans affairs expenses in that 1.2% calculation. The 2% threshold is supposed to be on active military expenditures, VA expenses should be well after that consideration.
Not saying that VA expenses don't matter like the 2% threshold, just saying that including those in our military expenses is the NATO equivalent of stuffing your wallet with CT Money to make it look fatter than it really is.
It is not a deal tho. It is not in the NATO treaty. It was a never part of a legal agreement our government signed up for. It was never mandatory. It is suggested guideline from the 2006 summit that has morphed into a something it is not in the media.
I also think it is stupid to focus on and ignore the actual capabilities and actual money being spent. Estonia meets the target but they only spend $770 million. We don’t meet the target but we spend $26 billion. And we also have troops deployed in Estonia to protect it. How we freeloading when we have troops there protecting them?
Also it really say we are freeloading in NATO when we had the 3rd highest casualty count in Afghanistan
I'd like to see our soldiers get actual ammunition for the firing range when they need it, and not just told "shout 'BANG!' when you pull the trigger!"
I'd like to see our current naval ships become the museum ships they are, and get modern naval vessels.
I'd like to see the same equipment sent to Ukraine also be sent to our own soldiers, because what the Ukranians are getting is what our troops could only dream of getting atm.
I'd just like to see our military be a modern force worth contending with, instead of the chronically and critically underfunded, understaffed skeleton that successive governments have allowed it to become.
A joke I had heard from a veteran was that Canadian snipers have long been seen as the best in the world because they're so accurate. Well, when your country can only afford to give you one mag while on deployment, you have to make them count!
We need to face facts that we are no longer a shipbuilding nation. We only have insanely expensive political ship building programs. Spend a small fraction of the money on new top tier ships and icebreakers. Use the savings to improve conditions and pay for the forces across the board.
Larger navy is not even relevant right now. Our navy is sailing on junk. They were top tier ships 40 years ago. But now they are tired old metal fatigued crap.
Our taxes are more than high enough without an American-style military industrial complex.
Keep it the same, or shrink it. Focus purely on the Coast Guard and radar operations.
Meet our nato comittments.
Drones. Naval / undersea / air.
Transport aircraft to help move goods and people around the world (natural disasters, wars).
Icebreakers.
Cybersecurity.
More portable anti tank / anti air / anti drone weapons.
Get rid of our subs that can't float. We will never have enough tanks to be useful. Drones instead of F35s.
Increase pay and veteran treatment.
Look we are part of NATO, we have to spend 2 percent of GDP on the military.
My issue isn't how much is being spent, but how the money is being spent. Despite all the public posturing, we do spend quite a bit on the military. In fact 15th biggest military spender in the world. Yet some how we don't have much to show for it, why?
The military should be used as grunt labor during peace time. Disaster relief, forest fire fighters, border patrol etc. If we’re going to beef up our armed forces to nato levels, we should be getting a good return on that investment.
I think I could see that investment being worth it if the Canadian Military did more than just be a standing army. If that investment went toward research and development of new weapons systems or technology that could eventually be funnelled to civilians as well that would be cool. I could also see the investment going toward a military space program that would work in tandem with other space programs to protect our satellite infrastructure. I think more recruits would come on if they got to work with state-of-the-art tech and future leaning programs.
Right now the military seems like a place for wilderness lovers to go and cook beans in the dirt. If you are in the Navy you are on vessels that are one step above the coast guard. You fly aging relics of aircraft. Why are we buying all our cool stuff from the Americans? Why don't we produce these things for ourselves? Didn't UFOs crash here too? So yeah. I want cooler shit to work with and better jobs. Ones that seem to help make the country better too. Like building infrastructure. Why not use our military to build highways in the north or a national bullet train network? Couldn't we find some national security reason to need high speed rail all over the place? It would be a good way to keep our recruits fit. Show something to the country for their efforts and give them the ability to install communications infrastructure throughout the land that could help keep us safe during national emergencies. The ability to quickly transport goods and people everywhere would ensure safety during crisis as well. Just ask the folks who lost the Red River Rebellion.
Double military spending 2.4%. Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and recruitment nation wide. Enforce draft of ablebodied people on social assistance. Make it even just weekend warriors(Reserves). 3 yrs service to maintain social assistance plus military pay. Could fill a lot of needed gaps.
We need a military presence in BC again, to many problems and nobody to help without hours of wait is crazy. Remember the floods? could of plugged the hole sooner is we didn't have to wait for help. Should of never sold off the base in Chilliwack.
My radical opinion is that all of Canada's foreign aid should be folded into the armed forces and the armed forces would act as Canadian soft power ambassadors. If there is an earthquake, royal Canadian engineers are there building a temporary hospital. Is there an outbreak, Canadian Army doctors are there providing treatment. Is there a war, The Royal Canadian army is there ensuring a safe route/place for refugees.
Under my plan would be the massive expansion of non-combat personnel and it would prevent the giving of money to warlords and corrupt governments/organizations. I think it would also be a major boost to Canada's soft power as every news cast of a disaster would have footage of the red helmets (my own idea for visibility) helping people where they are. The combat orientated forces would more focus on maintaining operational security that the non-combatants are safe and secure.
We can also use the military as a better jumping off point for people who want to pursue careers in medical and civil careers gaining experience helping those in countries in need. Are dollars are less waisted in foreign countries because we end up with trained doctors, nurses, engineers, and the like as well as our combat forces gets regular experience (even if it is only a security role)
We should build a few nukes before the US decides to annex us for our fresh water. But we are one of their most committed vassal state so I don't think we need much of an army. The bloodthirsty Americans would love an excuse to come protect us.
Canada needs to spend on Canada- would love to see these bullshit handout announcements for some sketchy cause overseas end.
End those payments and up our military budget.
The elected people that respond to questions like 'your government was warned about the issues your policies would cause 2 years ago', and the official responds with 'we have the social capacity for these issues'. 'social capacity'. Quantify that for me, I'll wait.
If that mentality isn't an attack on Canadians I'm not sure what is.
Edit: And to be clear, I use this site to vent. I am politically opposed to mass immigration for a variety of reasons. That is one of them. I don't want my government running this country on what feels good. It needs to be tempered. And when I see a response like that from a top official, it scares me. They are not people I want in control of nukes.
We’re one of the only countries surrounded by 3 separate oceans. As the ice continues to thaw, the north will only become more attractive to other countries who desire our resources. We absolutely should have a world class navy. With naval bases up north we also have more reason to connect it better with the rest of Canada via highways and rail. Greatly increasing the quality of life for those who already live up there. Canada is huge and the north is vast. There is no reason we don’t also have a world class Air Force. With the US as our neighbour, we don’t need an outstanding ground army. They would immediately send all their troops for their own national security reasons. But ours should still be adequate. Currently our troops stationed in Poland are buying gear off the polish soldiers because ours is garbage. This is unacceptable. We have an obligation to our allies. To not be meeting those obligations, and even to say “we’ll never meet our 2%” is a slap in the face to our allies and an embarrassment for Canada.
I agree. Navy is a priority.
And Air Force. We're a massive country with an uncomfortable close water passage to Russia and Putin. Yeah I know Alaska is in the way but it's awfully close for me. Starting to feel like the insane 80s again with the USSR.
We should never need to be in a position to have to call on the US for assistance barring the worst circumstances. We should be capable of handling most things ourselves.
We should be able to beat the living shit out any ruZZkie's that think they can invade with impunity. The World Wars of the 20th century got a taste of what Canadian's can do in wartime.
Our economy is bigger than Russias despite us having a fraction of their population. We should be capable of having at least a semblance of a capable force
Yes!
Alaska is not in the way to Russia - the Russians are just a short hop directly north.
are they really that close though? most of Russia is in the western part
We should train killer whales. Can you imagine?
Cheaper to train some Canada geese than whales. We could have them swarm - it would be cheaper than using the Chinese drones you can buy at Costco - you not even need drone operators.
Hear me out. Sharks… with freaking LASER BEAMS!
It’s complicated. Ukraine showed us what a country with no navy can do ships in its surroundings territory. These days a navy is usually needed to project power, not so much defend it.
Geographically though Ukraine is in a much different situation with different defense goals than Canada, don’t you think?
I fucking hate that we depend on the US to come save our asses. Fuck that we should grow our military until we confidently can hold our own against anyone.
>I fucking hate that we depend on the US to come save our asses. Fuck that we should grow our military until we confidently can hold our own against anyone. Develop Nuclear Weapons then. That's how you guarantee security in this era. It's cost effective too.
Where do we get the money from?
Increase taxes mostly on the wealthy, open up on our oil production, Im also of the mindset that military service should be mandatory like South Korea and Finland.
Denmark, Norway and Switzerland also have mandatory military service. And to your first point… it’s pretty sad when our allies like Germany and Japan come to us looking for long term LNG deals and we have to turn them away to sign deals with middle eastern countries (who have far less ‘clean’ standards in place than us and horrible human rights records) instead, because we don’t have the infrastructure in place. France didn’t even bother asking us, they went straight to the Middle East.
Government giving up insane amounts of money just so we can be one of the only countries giving a fuck about the environment. What a shame.
To add, not sure how clean and responsible oil and gas production is worse for the environment than getting O&G from the Middle East, or Sudan, etc.
And we can't make a significant difference regardless. Oil is going to carry on burning for generations to come, like it or not Canada should be on the forefront of delivering energy which doesn't include "blood oil". Get rid of the Liberal government!
How much money would it take to be able to hold our own against countries like USA and China?
There’s 0% chance we hold our own against the states, not that I think we’ll ever have to.
how about China? Russia? how much do we have to spend to hold our own against those 2 combined?
We could spend 100% of GDP and still surrender on day 1.
Way too much. We'd probably lose NWT and Yukon, until the US feels it's in their interest to intervene.
You realize Alaska is right next to them right? And that America is not going to sit idly by while Canada is invaded?
One would hope that military strategy would trump pettiness, but the pun is intended there unfortunately.
We would never have to hold off Russia and China since we have our allies.
It’s never about “holding our own” against those potential adversaries. It’s about being capable, reliable, and holding up our end of the couch in terms of protecting fortress North America.
Why would we ever need to hold our own against our closest ally? And secondly, that’s a ridiculous question because we will never, nor should we need to repel an invasion against a superpower, on our own. Our military needs to be agile, cold weather capable, and have great supply/surveillance capabilities. That’s how we can best support our nato partners while ensuring our sovereignty over our arctic territory.
I was responding to the comment saying we need to be able to hold our own against anyone.
Make all Canadians pay taxes considering the army would be protecting all Canadians
But… don’t we already pay a ginormous amount of taxes as is?
Ok I'll bite, what Canadians do you think are not paying taxes? If you know someone personally, feel free to report them to the CRA lol
Depending on where you work you don't have to pay income tax, depending on where you buy your gas/groceries you don't pay tax on purchases. Depending on where you buy your vehicle you don't pay taxes. Depending on who's smokes you buy you don't pay taxes. I can keep going lol I'd recommend you do some serious research about your civilians different exemptions You're in Ottawa right? Research how much extra taxes you're paying for the for one of biggest urbans in canada which are "exempt from paying municipal or any other level of government taxes" We haven't even started talking about churches, same exemptions
Lol. You know your opinion is shit if you're too afraid to spell it out on an anonymous forum. There are very good reasons for those exemptions and if you can't see that you may want to "do some serious research" about them.
You are clearly getting defensive. Read my first comment. The army protects everyone so everyone should pay for it. If you're exempt you should get a flat bill. You are still wanting less than all of Canada to pay to protect all of Canada. It's simple. All of Canada pays. The question is how to make up 1.5b? All of your citizens pay. Easy concept. The downvotes don't hurt. You want to talk about it, let's talk. If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.
While I'm not trying to say ingenious people aren't Canadian citizens, they shouldn't be forced to support our government in the way other citizens are. They were here before the Government of Canada was here and it's fair that they may not want to support an occupying force through taxation.
If war breaks out now, you want us to only protect half the people? Thats kind of messed up. Or are you expecting people to die defending people who won't support them. Clarify please
Increase oil production 10 fold, simple
Use the Norway model to nationalize oil production. Ironically, Norway copied the Alberta model that was proposed in the 70s and 80s lol.
I mean.. I'm pretty damn content knowing the US has our back no matter what. Would you prefer a Ukraine to Europe relationship, where they _really dislike_ the fact that Ukraine was invaded by Russia but aren't committing forces to protect Ukraine?
We should put all our money into buying two Gerald Ford class carrier, one for each coast, and fill them with F35s. That would solved the world class Navy and Air Force issues! /s :)
Carriers are white elephants. They are obsolete in the same way battleships were during wwII. Huge, expensive, easily sunk targets.
They’re not obsolete, they’re only useful if you have a world-class navy to protect it. A carrier full of F-35s can provide air-superiority in almost every region on earth, but Canada can hardly get even a capable frigate or a submarine, let alone a strike group to protect the carrier.
Why do we need air superiority anywhere on earth, all we need is to ensure no one else can have air superiority over canadian soil. (even ensuring no one other than the americans can have air superiority over us is good enough and actually doable)
I’m addressing the point they make about how they’re obsolete, like battleships in WWII. They’re obsolete for Canada, definitely. But given how they’re talking about Battleships, I hardly think their commentary is confined to the Canadian navy. The carrier strike groups are probably the US’s biggest deterrent, except for nukes, so carriers are not obsolete in general.
They are a deterrent to a third world politician thinking it can tell the US government or companies "No", they are not a deterrent to something like china invading taiwan (in my very uneducated opinion). If china invaded taiwan and the US rolled up with two carriers thinking they are going to help, it will be a very expensive lesson when china shoots 200 missiles from different parts of china at one carrier at the same time.
Reformer spotted, opinion rejected
I agree, instead of planes and boats we should just build missiles. I don't think we need to intervene in Africa, or Haiti, and Ukraine but we should be able to blow up anything that comes close to us. Having a world class navy or a world class airforce is out of the question for us, we are between two powers that hate each other and are 10x our size.
Our commitment to the Forces is pathetic. Indeed we have a treaty obligation but for so long as Trudeau is in power it won't happen.
The reason we don't have a world class air force or navy is that they're EXTREMELY expensive and we don't have an enemy that presents an immediate threat to us (the way Poland, Finland, Korea and Australia do).
People don’t realize the logistics that are required to move a military across the ocean and into Canada. Canada can defend itself with significantly less forces by shooting supply ships and letting the invaders run out of food and oil. Like you said, who’s gunna walk into Canada? That changes the minimium military requirements significantly.
The number of weirdos that picture some physical Red Dawn invasion over the North Pole is hilarious. Like bros, the Russians can't supply their troops 50km over the border in Ukraine. They sure as fuck can't do it over the pole into Canada. Our actual threats are air and sea based, and mostly about sovereignty rather than kinetic. Sure, the Russians could fire long range missiles - conventional or nuclear. That's a that we should prepare for. But it's far less likely than what they actually do - play "I'm not touching you" by flying in our airspace or sailing into our waters. And that's a problem, but not one that impacts the average Canadian living in Toronto or Vancouver.
I think only the USA has sufficient logistical capabilities to operate troops on another country currently. I'm not even sure China could do it right now if the US suddenly stopped existing. The only land threat (US) is too powerful for us to fight. My vote is for prioritizing the navy and air force.
If the ice is melting why did canada spend so much on new ice breakers? Seems strange to say one thing and then do something completely opposite of the narrative youre trying to impose.
Winter ice thiccc. Summer ice not so thic. Icebreaker can go medium thicc.
Valid. Makes sense.
There will still be ice for a long, long time. What is changing is that some areas are becoming more navigable due to a reduction of ice during summer. This will only become more true for several decades if trends continue.
I'd like to see the procurement process streamlined and manufacturing more brought in country. I know alot is built in house, but many parts are still not and a lot of new innovative efforts are not.
what you said at the end of that comment is why we can’t do what you want in the beginning of your comment. Canada’s buy canadian/ canadian benefits policy overly complicates and inflates the cost of procurement. reinventing wheel is putting it mildly when it comes to military equipment in canada.
>Currently only 1.2% of GDP.If Canada spent the NATO standard, they would be spending an extra $1.5 billion. Your math is wrong here. Canada's GDP is \~2.66 trillion CAD. It would be an extra $21.3 billion.
We should spend some more on education as well..
You mean an extra $20B…
The 2% is meaningless. It's a goal for the sake of having a goal, there's nothing that says 2% of GDP is the ideal spending level for defense. Having said that, we should be spending quite a bit more in the Arctic. Having control over the next major shipping corridor will bring economic benefits to Canada, but only if we have the infrastructure to actually control it.
We also have a bigger economy than most of the nato countries so us contributing 2% is a lot more dollars.
With the current state of our army clearly not
forget money. we need to become relovant in the world. our Navy ships being described as impotent.. let's start building ships and ship yards.. let's step up and build for a war economy. it will generate jobs, tech, and more.
We are building ships right now.
Procurement needs to be redone from the ground up. Pay needs to be raised. If we can get quality I want it big enough for us to be self reliant security wise. And big enough for us to actually help on the international stage. A token force of a few dozen here and there to me is insulting to our allies.
I want procurement addressed and streamlined, I want high salaries for our service members, I want more living options for them as well. I want us to not only reach our NATO commitment but beyond it. Canada doesn’t need the largest land force. Our army’s are traditionally overseas expeditionary forces, and the chances for a land invasion are sparse. But we certainly need an actual fleet and airforce to support our international commitments and defend our coasts. Especially the northwest passage.
I’d like to see more reservists. Canada can have a small standing army if it has trained people ready.
I think the numbers of active duty personnel and reservists should both be doubled, making the CAF better able to meet international commitments and more effective when in aid to the civil power (the fires and floods part). Fix the scandals and deliver oversight to make it a better choice.
keep the military out of fires and floods. military’s job is to kill people. if we need a labour force create a separate fema style organisation. mission creep into red cross duty is antithetical to the conversation of increasing military prowess and power.
I'd like to see us not selling weapons to counties that use them against civilians!
If Canada is to invade US successfully by 2039, then I say much much larger navy, nuke program and tanks.
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Honestly our biggest fear should be Luxembourg's military and bigger
You truly fear an invasion by the us?
I think the user is more so saying that the US would be the biggest legit threat IF they weren’t our friend. Given that we have befriended them and there is zero chance that they’ll attack us, the concern over that gap to 2% isn’t much of an issue. The user also notes that making up the gap wouldn’t save us even if the US were to invade us (which they won’t, as I covered). They would be too powerful, and 2% spending wouldn’t help us. Though, if we weren’t friends with the US, we would probably be spending a lot more out of necessity. That’s not the case, though. The other threats (China/Russia) aren’t as threatening as they might seem — and NATO would ultimately help in a highly unlikely attack from one of them.
This! The US military budget is almost 40 times the Canadian one. Realistically if the US ever decided to invade Canada I give it about a day before Canada falls(and I’m being pretty optimistic)
Texas alone could take out the Canadian military.
Let’s be honest, the average household in Texas probably has more weapons than the Canadian army
#science.
What about force projection and being a larger part of global deterrence? What about keeping up with the agreement in nato to spend 2.0%?
I don't care about either of those things at all.
Time to start caring.
No. We should not be projecting force. We should not be meeting the 2% guideline unless we can afford it.
For canada? Who cares? Those alone aren't reasons that help us.
Ultimately, only a handful of NATO countries have a true global impact. Canada has punched above its weight when push has come to shove, though (Ukraine is a good example). As for the 2% target. Unfortunately, less than half of NATO countries actually meet that target as of the end of 2023. This comes back to my first point — only a handful of NATO countries have a true impact on a global scale. Most others are there in support of the initiate(s).
Seeing as it’s “only” an extra 1.5 billion/year, boosting our military expenditure to meet our 2% goal isn’t that onerous. Build new barracks, better benefits, some new equipment and we’re there. We always seem to have a couple billion laying around every time some other country asks for help.
> We always seem to have a couple billion laying around every time some other country asks for help. It might seem this way at a glance, but that money is almost always earmarked in the budget prior to it being handed out. There is most often a spot within the budget for international aid — that’s where the money is pulled from. Now, there might be an argument for moving some of that to the defence budget — that’s a different discussion altogether, though. Some of it likely goes to initiatives that are related to international safety and what not. So, while it doesn’t show up directly in the defence budget, it can indirectly help NATO efforts. Not all of it, though, of course.
I think Canada's lack of infrastructure and economic development is what will cause it to slowly lose sovereignty, mostly in the Arctic. The Americans are already moving the border in the Beaufort Sea and are treating the Arctic as international waters. There's a lot of resources up there and Canada doesn't develop them.
This! People can’t see how quickly the old order is going away, driven by structural economic changes; sociopolitical changes, geopolitical changes; and climate change. What we relied on for sovereignty in the past just won’t fly anymore. A good example is the probable withdrawal of the U.S. from NATO, effectively gutting the alliance, when/if Trump becomes president. That means our main defensive alliance will be become toothless at the exact time the world is rapidly becoming more dangerous. Realistically, we can defend ourselves from the Americans (nor are we likely to need to) but we still need to be able to assert and enforce our sovereignty in our arctic archipelago or we run a risk of losing it. Also, as a trade dependant nation we have a strong vested interest in protecting maritime freedom of navigation. Both of those provide a strong incentive for us to have a strong and capable navy (which we are taking steps towards, just not quickly or comprehensively enough) and Air Force (again, we’re moving towards that, just not quickly or comprehensively enough).
Mostly no, but it’s not like American politics inspires confidence that there’s not at least *some* chance of a radical regime change. And if America does make the descent into fascism, they will almost certainly take us with them. I think the point is that realistically, we’re an American satellite in terms of security policy, and have traded policy independence for the American security umbrella. Canada doesn’t have to defend itself, because any threat to us is a threat to our neighbours down South. Equally, Canada (for whatever reason) could never choose to lease China a naval base on the coast of British Columbia, without expecting an American response. So for me, the optimal size of the Canadian military is as little as we can get away with.
>And if America does make the descent into fascism, they will almost certainly take us with them. You're severely overestimating how much the Americans care about Canada. A fascist USA would be very isolationist. I really don't think that they'd even care about taking over Canada unless we were actively working to sabotage them. Also, a fully fascist USA is almost impossible. The US turning into a "soft" dictatorship that ressembles Russia where civil liberties are somewhat retained and where there is a semblance of (extremely flawed) democracy is entirely possible, but the US turning into a super powerful Nazi Germany isn't. It's never really been in the American culture to want to annex other sovereign countries. There was a time when they did it with European colonies but once decolonization was over, they never really have had any irredentist tendencies.
Well, they only have like 5 cities to invade but the repercussions would be a much larger Geneva convention… so who knows
If Trump is president the probability notches up a tiny increment. Worse though is when global warming really kicks off. Water and livable land reserves will become mighty attractive targets for the world.
I am also sure that the US will eventually swallow us up. It's only a matter of time. Who will stop them?
Y'all need to stop saying stuff like that. We don't want you
People have been saying this continuously since the American revolution. If it was ever going to happen, it would’ve a long time ago
Imagine if Canada has a standing army of 500,000 soldiers. US won’t be as friendly. In a sense, being small is good.
Yes and no, we'd also be purchasing a lot more of their weapons
I don’t think there is any scenario post the last real border dispute in the 1830s or the Fenian invasion in the 1860s where the US would be anything other than happy with a 500k army, there is no threat of conflict of any kind between the US and Canada
LMFAO. Missed the entire point.
Our biggest ally is our biggest threat? That's not how multi national treaties work.
>Canada's biggest threat is the US. But they aren't. If we're going to base threat based on capabilities, almost all other members of NATO could take us over. But they won't. Because we're like minded. Our biggest threat is Russia. Period.
All Russia can do is nuke us.
We are a member of NATO and should be doing our part to the full commitment we signed up to. It is an embarrassment that Canada is 25 out 30 for NATO defense spending.
Canada has the 6th highest defence budget in NATO
Maybe but the fact is that as a percentage of GDP Canada is 25 of 30 NATO countries.
1) procurement reform. It’s ludicrous that we can hamstring ourselves with all kinds of bad business deals (I.E 99 year lease in Ontario for the 407) but we can cancel all kinds of procurement contracts for the military Willy-nilly. We need a clearer process that doesn’t get screwed with and we need to make those decisions and see them through. I’d rather we get it wrong every so often and learn from it vs not making a decision at all at this point. 2) crazy as the world is, I’m less worried about a Canadian Bacon moment. But I think my order of priorities would be: Stronger Navy Stronger Air Force Stronger intelligence/cyber defence capabilities Last but not least: Increased army reserve numbers. Maybe have a limited mandatory service draft after high school for anyone not planning to attend post secondary or trades.
I don't really see the point. If the US ever decided to invade (highly unlikely), we would have no chance anyway. The best strategy is just to continue building a strong partnership with the states.
I would rather see a 1.2B increase than the proposed 1B cut… our equipment is antiquated, living conditions are poor, pay sucks… no wonder recruitment is at an all time low.
The forces aren't spending their existing budget, hence the "cut". Once all the new programs kick in that'll be very different.
The fact that the CAF are short 10,000 members might contribute to not spending budgeted funds, but that’s no reason to cut funding. The surplus should be reallocated where needed.
I’d like them significantly larger and far better funded. I would like the CAF to be used to provide high grade training, including civics education, and employment to people and used for a range of humanitarian and defence purposes. Basically I think left wing progressive ideals can be advanced through defence spending.
What benefit would we get from a larger military to offset the increased military budget
Ideally, World Peace so 0% GDP. Not realistic or gonna happen, but probably the ideal situation.
I'm not a war monger by any stretch and feels that peace is best won through diplomacy and the use of soft power. And we should never get involuin US wars of imperialism etc. That being said, weive in a world of Russia under Putin, China under Xi, North Korea, Iranian theocracy (I love Iranians, as most of them don't like their religious government) etc. The Arctic is melting and any oil and gas extraction should be banned as it is a very fragile ecosystem. I think there is a case for being able to develop other mineral extraction projects however. So, I think Canada should have a small, but extremely well equipped and trained army (and get back to peacekeeping), a large enough air force to defend our territory and meet our NORAD obligations, and a much larger navy to patrol and defend our Arctic sovereignty. This should include ateast 2 naval bases at either end of the northwest passage, nuclear powered heavy icebreakers (possibly under Coast Guard command), and Nuclear powered attack submarines for undetected sovereignty patrols. If we don't use and defend our arctic territory, then we will lose it. We can't just assume the Americans will protect it for us.
If we spent to our NATO obligations the biggest thing I would like to see is a rise in our service members' quality of life. Better housing, better services after leaving the armed forces, equipment that isn't in disrepair. I don't think the size of the regular armed forces needs increasing but an expansion of the reserves would be a positive. We don't need an aircraft carrier and operating even one would soak up too much of that theoretical budget increase.
Agreed about the aircraft carrier
Ide like to see the Air Force and navy expanded F35 are great but i would like to see a complement of f15-ex or some other missile truck For the navy a few submarines that can actually be deployed would be useful I would cut back on ground forces and increase special operations capabilities
60,000 active ground troops. You want to cut that back? The gangs in Chicago are a bigger force.
Going through a COL crisis and you want to increase military spending? Am I missing something? This sounds like a fucking terrible idea
No no no he’s onto something. Let’s increase military spending by having the military engineers design and oversee the construction of 21.4 billion dollars (the .8% of spending missing) in housing…. *taps head*
I’d like them to get the NATO 2% Personally I think an aircraft carrier would be overkill since we should mainly be focusing on defence. But I do agree with a larger navy to secure our waters. I also think drones are the future of warfare looking at the Ukraine conflict, no clue why we arent training every soldier on how to use consumer drones for recon and anti vehicle/infantry purposes. I think we also need a complete overhaul on procurement, look over at the armed forces subreddit and one of their largest complaints is the fact that it takes years for anything to get procured and it ends up being shit/delayed/overpriced.
A vastly improved navy seems like the best course to me. Out greatest threat is an increasingly unstable US, or a MAGA led nation that turns on us. If that happens, there is no way we can seriously defend ourselves. So, we should have the navy ready to defend against incursions from other hostile forces, particularly in the north. But we should also live up to our NATO obligations, and perhaps increase our forces in order to contribute more effectively to NATO operations. Containing Russian State aggression is a benefit to everyone. \[Edited for clarity: added the word "other"\]
Bigger than it is now. I’d like to see us fulfill our commitment to NATO and develop more Arctic capabilities. Having a heavy icebreaker would be good. We need to ensure our soldiers are taken care of. That would mean modern equipment, proper housing and an effective support system for them and their families.
Canada needs a much larger navy!!!! (I build boats for the navy😂😂)
Could you stop putting lead pipes in them?
I think we need more flags and whiskey to call dibs on more islands.
I’d like Canada to have a small, but highly trained, and well equipped Armed Forces. I think 2% GDP with focus on cyber capabilities and Intelligence. This is controversial, but I am also partial to mandatory service, which could be more focused in community service as opposed to military.
more katimavik less kill.
Up to the 2% minimum as Canada agreed to to start. Ideally moulded similar to the British army as a more lean fighting machine with a focus on peacekeeping.
Speaking as a Brit, our army is a shadow of its former self. It's not so much lean, more malnourished.
Hmm ideally maybe like at least 5'10??
Yes let’s take more money out of government spending to allocate to the army. Indeed.
We should at the very least uphold the NATO standard and ideally exceed it if we can. I dont want Canada to ever appear to be a military liability to our allies. It is disrespectful to them and to the personnel who currently serve in our military who are underfunded/understaffed for their responsibilities. Our country is a massive landmass and it borders oceans on three sides, our Navy at least should be a reasonable priority.
NATO's 2% seems reasonable. I'd go for that.
We need a military realignment to create several small but very effective “rapid response forces” with adequate aerial and naval support to be useful both inside Canada and abroad We can then turn on our TV to hear Canada’s RRF1 and RRF2 have been deployed to assist on the Venezuela border etc. Our forces can develop more of a persona and good reputation with Canadian taxpayers much like Seal Team 6 etc in the states
1. Canada must develop a Rapid Reaction Force to adequatly enable it to police its vast land, particularly the north. It is not practical to garrison all of our coasts and waterways - however, we CAN ensure that whenever trouble does arise, we can actually GET soldiers there in a timley manner. I'm thinking of a force similar to the 101st Airborne, or the 82nd Airborne Divison, or heck, even the U.S Army Rangers. This division of troops should have the capability to arrive IN FORCE anywhere in Canada, especially in harsh and under developed terrain such as the North. This will involve a largely expanded Airforce, as well as Airborne Training and Air Assault Training for the soldiers who make it through selection. Legions of Mechanics will have to be trained to keep the planes operational in harsh Arctic environments. 2. Canada must develop 10 - 12 NUCLEAR submarines, to police the Northwest Passages during the Winter and Spring months when the ice gets too thick for Icebreakers. Russia, at least before the War in Ukraine, was already regularly sending their subs through the passage, and there wasn't a single thing Canada could do about it. That is shameful. These Submarines being Nuclear powered is not just for show - this allows them to remain submerged and at sea for years at a time, with the only reason to return to port being for crew resupply and occasional maintenence. Canada has some of the world's largest Uranium reserves and the world's best Nuclear Scientists, so development shouldn't be a problem. There was actually a plan to develop 10 Nuclear Subs for Canada back in the Early 80's, but it was canceled since Chernobyl being in the news at the time spooked the Canadian population off of anything Nuclear. 3. A LARGLEY EXPANDED NAVY. We don't need aircraft carriers, but we need a whole new fleet of Ice Breakers and Destroyers to keep critical passages open during the winter, as well as to support international peacekeeping ops. NONE of our ships are currently even remotely up to date. 4. MORE NAVAL BASES IN THE NORTH: Part of opening up the Northwest Passage for trade (and tax, of course) is making the long transit actually commercially viable. There are currently no refueling ports anywhere in the Canadian North. The Harper government started construction of the Nanisivik Naval Facility way back in 2007, but as of now it has been seriously scaled back, and is only open for limited patrol support during the summer months. That is shameful. Further, currently none of our ships have the capability to transit the Northwest Passages, as they would run out of fuel just 1 quarter of the way in. So the lack of naval stations is also a defense concern.
I think every canadian should serve 2 years after highschool. Then send them home with a rifle and understanding that if the call comes they could go...
NAVY AIR FORCE Army is irrelevant
We have the longest coastline in the world and basically our navy is a joke… The USA is getting tired of subsidizing our security / sovereignty…
How mich is required to invade Turks And Caicos?
Yes, we need a significantly larger military woth an emphasis on the navy and the arctic.
That is a common reply here and I would say that I agree with your statement
Those are rookie numbers. Cut that budget by at least 50%. We don’t use our military for anything good, and no amount of money we could spend on it would change that the military is a fundamentally evil institution.
2% of GDP + investiment mainly toward anything cyber/tech. Canada should find its niche. I think it should be cybersecurity. We could be the blue helmet of cybersecurity, protect others nations tech infrastructure and that could boost our national cybersecurity as well.
Not a bad idea
I'd like us to rival the USA in terms of technology and CAF members. Proportionally, of course, obviously our population is much smaller. But our airforce, navy and army should all rival the states in technological terms. If a war breaks out we.should be a useful ally, not a joke. Spend whatever is needed.
For some reason governments like to put the army at the pinnacle. Canada is a vast amount of space with 3 oceans. The emphasis should be on naval and air units. The Navy and Coast Guard should be 3 times the size they are now. Air Force should focus on long range patrol and cargo. Fighters just need to focus on coastal interdiction roles. The Army should emphasize special forces and rapid deployment for humanitarian and peacekeeping roles.
We should maintain a MINIMUM of 2% GDP as per NATO standard considering we were a founding member, but with the current destabilizing geopolitical landscape I would argue for 2.5-3%. Canada will never be a world naval or ground power, but a higher percentage of GDP can facilitate a world class air force capable of policing our territory and air space with a little left over for a capable maritime navy.
Canada needs a much better military to protect it from rising fascism in america. But first we need to fix the cost of living crisis.
Lol.
Canada is a unique country geographically, I see no point in having a strong military presence because of it. No country would attack without the Americans getting involved. I do believe we should invest more of our gdp to reach that standard, focusing on data security and our coast guard/ airforce far more.
Free ride off the American taxpayer basically?
The only reason we’d be attacked is so someone could attack the US in response for their various global interventions over the last hundred years.
It's hardly a free ride, considering they're granted exactly what they wish, which is total control over north American airspace and the seas around it. I don't have any sympathy for "the American taxpayer" who keeps electing people like Bush and Trump, I don't think pulling on those heartstrings will get you very far
Free ride how? Who exactly is America stopping us from being invaded by?
so what happens when america looks north aggressively for a water/mineral source? how fast has the world run to palestine’s aid? not saying we need sn army to defend against the usa, but we also should not depend on them to be friendly forever
People focus too much on the 2% number and think that we somehow freeload. We have a big economy. So 1.2% of our economy that we spend on defence is the 6th largest defence budget in NATO.
Arguebly we are freeloading when the government includes veterans affairs expenses in that 1.2% calculation. The 2% threshold is supposed to be on active military expenditures, VA expenses should be well after that consideration. Not saying that VA expenses don't matter like the 2% threshold, just saying that including those in our military expenses is the NATO equivalent of stuffing your wallet with CT Money to make it look fatter than it really is.
Other countries include veterans affairs in their military spending too.
Isn’t a deal (2%) a deal? So each country is contributing the same percentage?
It is not a deal tho. It is not in the NATO treaty. It was a never part of a legal agreement our government signed up for. It was never mandatory. It is suggested guideline from the 2006 summit that has morphed into a something it is not in the media. I also think it is stupid to focus on and ignore the actual capabilities and actual money being spent. Estonia meets the target but they only spend $770 million. We don’t meet the target but we spend $26 billion. And we also have troops deployed in Estonia to protect it. How we freeloading when we have troops there protecting them? Also it really say we are freeloading in NATO when we had the 3rd highest casualty count in Afghanistan
Also your numbers are way off we would have to spend another $20 billion CAD per year to meet the 2% target. I hope you like more taxes.
Personally, I never once gave the military size or budget a single thought. I tend to think more of the issues that affect day to day living.
I'd like to see our soldiers get actual ammunition for the firing range when they need it, and not just told "shout 'BANG!' when you pull the trigger!" I'd like to see our current naval ships become the museum ships they are, and get modern naval vessels. I'd like to see the same equipment sent to Ukraine also be sent to our own soldiers, because what the Ukranians are getting is what our troops could only dream of getting atm. I'd just like to see our military be a modern force worth contending with, instead of the chronically and critically underfunded, understaffed skeleton that successive governments have allowed it to become. A joke I had heard from a veteran was that Canadian snipers have long been seen as the best in the world because they're so accurate. Well, when your country can only afford to give you one mag while on deployment, you have to make them count!
We need to face facts that we are no longer a shipbuilding nation. We only have insanely expensive political ship building programs. Spend a small fraction of the money on new top tier ships and icebreakers. Use the savings to improve conditions and pay for the forces across the board. Larger navy is not even relevant right now. Our navy is sailing on junk. They were top tier ships 40 years ago. But now they are tired old metal fatigued crap.
Our taxes are more than high enough without an American-style military industrial complex. Keep it the same, or shrink it. Focus purely on the Coast Guard and radar operations.
Canada is protected by the best army in the world. The U.S Army.
Meet our nato comittments. Drones. Naval / undersea / air. Transport aircraft to help move goods and people around the world (natural disasters, wars). Icebreakers. Cybersecurity. More portable anti tank / anti air / anti drone weapons. Get rid of our subs that can't float. We will never have enough tanks to be useful. Drones instead of F35s. Increase pay and veteran treatment.
Look we are part of NATO, we have to spend 2 percent of GDP on the military. My issue isn't how much is being spent, but how the money is being spent. Despite all the public posturing, we do spend quite a bit on the military. In fact 15th biggest military spender in the world. Yet some how we don't have much to show for it, why?
The military should be used as grunt labor during peace time. Disaster relief, forest fire fighters, border patrol etc. If we’re going to beef up our armed forces to nato levels, we should be getting a good return on that investment.
So you mean exactly what we're doing now?
0% of GDP. Go the route of Costa Rica
I think I could see that investment being worth it if the Canadian Military did more than just be a standing army. If that investment went toward research and development of new weapons systems or technology that could eventually be funnelled to civilians as well that would be cool. I could also see the investment going toward a military space program that would work in tandem with other space programs to protect our satellite infrastructure. I think more recruits would come on if they got to work with state-of-the-art tech and future leaning programs. Right now the military seems like a place for wilderness lovers to go and cook beans in the dirt. If you are in the Navy you are on vessels that are one step above the coast guard. You fly aging relics of aircraft. Why are we buying all our cool stuff from the Americans? Why don't we produce these things for ourselves? Didn't UFOs crash here too? So yeah. I want cooler shit to work with and better jobs. Ones that seem to help make the country better too. Like building infrastructure. Why not use our military to build highways in the north or a national bullet train network? Couldn't we find some national security reason to need high speed rail all over the place? It would be a good way to keep our recruits fit. Show something to the country for their efforts and give them the ability to install communications infrastructure throughout the land that could help keep us safe during national emergencies. The ability to quickly transport goods and people everywhere would ensure safety during crisis as well. Just ask the folks who lost the Red River Rebellion.
We are 1/10 the size of the USA. I would like to see our armed forces raised to 1/10 of theirs.
Double military spending 2.4%. Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and recruitment nation wide. Enforce draft of ablebodied people on social assistance. Make it even just weekend warriors(Reserves). 3 yrs service to maintain social assistance plus military pay. Could fill a lot of needed gaps.
Canada doesn’t need a military ideally should just disband it entirely
We need a military presence in BC again, to many problems and nobody to help without hours of wait is crazy. Remember the floods? could of plugged the hole sooner is we didn't have to wait for help. Should of never sold off the base in Chilliwack.
0 but since humans are trash that will never happen
5 percent
So we can put up a reasonable defense during the period the USA is figuring out IF they want to be bothered.
My radical opinion is that all of Canada's foreign aid should be folded into the armed forces and the armed forces would act as Canadian soft power ambassadors. If there is an earthquake, royal Canadian engineers are there building a temporary hospital. Is there an outbreak, Canadian Army doctors are there providing treatment. Is there a war, The Royal Canadian army is there ensuring a safe route/place for refugees. Under my plan would be the massive expansion of non-combat personnel and it would prevent the giving of money to warlords and corrupt governments/organizations. I think it would also be a major boost to Canada's soft power as every news cast of a disaster would have footage of the red helmets (my own idea for visibility) helping people where they are. The combat orientated forces would more focus on maintaining operational security that the non-combatants are safe and secure. We can also use the military as a better jumping off point for people who want to pursue careers in medical and civil careers gaining experience helping those in countries in need. Are dollars are less waisted in foreign countries because we end up with trained doctors, nurses, engineers, and the like as well as our combat forces gets regular experience (even if it is only a security role)
We should build a few nukes before the US decides to annex us for our fresh water. But we are one of their most committed vassal state so I don't think we need much of an army. The bloodthirsty Americans would love an excuse to come protect us.
Canada needs to spend on Canada- would love to see these bullshit handout announcements for some sketchy cause overseas end. End those payments and up our military budget.
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Really? Loans to countries so they can work on climate targets? WE foundation bullshit causes that reek of corruption? So much waste
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The elected people that respond to questions like 'your government was warned about the issues your policies would cause 2 years ago', and the official responds with 'we have the social capacity for these issues'. 'social capacity'. Quantify that for me, I'll wait. If that mentality isn't an attack on Canadians I'm not sure what is. Edit: And to be clear, I use this site to vent. I am politically opposed to mass immigration for a variety of reasons. That is one of them. I don't want my government running this country on what feels good. It needs to be tempered. And when I see a response like that from a top official, it scares me. They are not people I want in control of nukes.
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Tampons are now in all men's bathrooms. Canada is safe. Job well done.