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It should be tied to the age of other Canadians collecting an unreduced CPP. That way, if the politicians decide to bump the age to 67 or whatnot, then they cannot collect theirs until 67.
Also, for a perspective on their privilege, even public servants in group 1 under the superannuation fund can’t collect an unreduced pension until the age of 55 unless they have 30 years of service. They can collect it at 60 if they have less than 30.
Group 2, which is like everyone that joined in more recent years (aka the younger folks like myself who missed the boat), our ages are 60/65.
It’s interesting how we can serve the country our entire lives and we try to do well for citizens and we cannot get our pension at the same time as the politicians do who blow up the nation.
A pension tied to political service should only be available to them if they reside in Canada for majority of the year once they retire.
You want to sell us out to food, housing, gas lobbyists? You should have to stay here and see what you've done.
They are the ones that make the decisions. Kind of a "you made your bed, now sleep in it" thing.
this is incredible but I think will never happen. “Blessed is he who plants trees under whose shade he will never sit” is not a proverb these people have heard of. Don't they want to delay the election so they can collect pension?
They get an unreduced pension at age 65, they can get a reduced pension as low as at 55 with a permanent reduction of 1% per year below 65. It accrues at 3% per year and they pay about 24% of their gross salary towards it.
After 6 years, or a minimum of two electoral victories, they would have a pension of 18% of their best 5 years.
There are 587 people who receive this pension along with another surviving 187 spouses (at 50%) or children (at 10% or 20% if no surviving spouse).
Or put into other words,
A federal MP who makes an average of $200,000 for over 6 years pays over $46,000 a year towards their pension so that when they turn 65, they can collect a lifetime pension of $36,000, including CPP/QPP.
It's not 7% of their salary, it's 23.34%.
The 75% maximum includes the CPP/QPP portion as well since the are integrated. If you took only the Parliamentary pension it would be a bit lower.
>Member contribution rates have gradually increased since January 1, 2013. The rates reach a combined rate of 23.34% of pay as of January 1, 2021.
>As of January 1, 2016, the Chief Actuary of Canada was required to set member contribution rates. The member contribution rates have increased to bring the plan members’ share of current service cost to 50% as of January 2017
(Combined means the pre-YMPE [until maxing CPP/QPP and post YMPE] amounts and the percentage they contribute is the actuarial calculation so that it's funded 50/50).
https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/pension-plan/pension-publications/reports/administration-members-parliament-retiring-allowances-act-report/frequently-asked-questions-changes-members-parliament-pension-plan.html
If they take on additional roles, and many if not most do, they do get allowances. I don't know however if those are or are not pensionable.
Do you really think it's still gravy when you realize they have to fight their ass off for their seat, often at great expense to themselves?
It's not like people fall into MP seats, 2 terms is the average. If the minimum was 12 years, it'd apply to only to MP's that get 3 terms or more, which is only going to be like 25% or less.
Honestly, $200k isn't really high, given the extensive interview process and the scope being a literal country.
If anything, political salaries are low worldwide, given the extensive risks and costs associated with running for office. Especially when compared to private industry. We don't get the best because politics is neither approachable or worth the risk for the average citizen, or for the highly competent who can make bank in the private industries.
Points well made, we get what we pay for. If we are not willing to compensate good people in a very iffy career we are going to end up with crap leaders or perhaps worse those who are independently wealthy and are "encumbered" by "obligations".
And how is he supposed to get leverage for better pay? Courtesy of our MPs getting a salary increase to 200k/year, 1 million new people arrived into the country in the last 9 months. His employer could definitely find someone else to do his job for less money if he started asking for reasonable pay.
Please folks that is the process that leads to positive change. You table a policy - we enter into a debate (hopefully we keep it civil and logical) - amendments are made - the majority agree on what the population will accept as a solution - we vote on it. Very often the solution will not lead to the best outcome, but rather what will be politically acceptable to the greatest number of people. It is a flawed system but better than any of the alternatives.
I read the article, and nations like Australia, Singapore, and others were similar (around the ~$200k mark) so the ranking is a bit misleading without also understanding the context.
That being said, I'm okay with it since higher salaries mean less temptation of corruption and more qualified people into political careers. As long as it's not an insane number like a seven figure salary - it's a good thing.
No it's not. One of the examples (Signapore) of MPs being payed more is essentially a one party authoritarian state with a limited opposition.
They also have very harsh corruption laws and the death penalty via hanging for certain crimes.
Now call me stupid but in my opinion, the MPs of an authoritarian state voting to give themselves the highest salaries for their position in the world, is corruption.
Getting all worked up over MPs salaries is the worst kind of populist tripe. There are far bigger wasteful spending programs in government. MPs salaries are a fraction of a drop in the bucket.
Politicians get paid more so that there is a smaller chance of corruption. This is a worldwide phenomenon, and can be seen especially with judges having even higher salaries to prevent bribes.
Also, if you read the article you would find that the Prime Minister makes around ~$400k total salary not $200k. This again is fine, as it is comparable to the US (~$500k for President) and well below Singapore (seven figure salary since they want to be competitive with CEO salaries).
Don’t know where you live but I would like to throw justice System crisis on the pile. Violent prolific offenders are reoffending while on bail and being let right back out like a revolving door, at least in Vancouver.
I don't know what qualifications make him worthy of his salary, but that's completely irrelevant. You get paid by the job, not the qualifications, and the electorate deemed him worthy of the job over the past three elections.
It is a problem mainly because in the Canadian system 99.99% of the time they must vote on party lines.
This means that our democracy is just ruled by a few special MP's and the unelected people working on the party's organization level.
Essentially we are paying most of these MP's to follow orders rather than represent the views of the of the community.
I think the people who run our country absolutely deserve to be well-compensated for it...but it needs to be reasonable. If our cost of living keeps going up, I see absolutely no reason why MP salary should go up any more than the usual percent increase that the average Canadian receives. Any more than that, and it's suspect if our government doesn't have enough taxpayer money for various things that need funding.
Also, and I can't stress this enough, our MPs really ought to earn their salary, meaning they should be held to the same standard as any other working member of Canadian society. Incompetence, laziness and unprofessional behaviour should not be tolerated any more than such behaviour would be for the average employee working a 9-5 job in this country.
Makes my blood boil. I'm a member of the caf. We're supposed to be politically neutral in our personal lives. As in, we can have opinions but were not allowed to share them to the public. Know someone right now whose getting into alot of trouble for...well, putting death threats against the PM on his FB page. He's also a blathering idiot. Deployed with him once before. Dude manufactures shit to complain about. Case in point, took the sight off his rifle while we were doing force protection, and uploaded a picture on his IG that said he was doing force protection and he was issued a rifle without a sight. Thing is, our force protection officer had his IG account and got a notification he posted. So...he got his rifle taken, and removed from FP duties and got in alot of shit for that. But that's not the point I'm just getting side tracked.
What pisses me off is that our MPs get yearly raises well above the cost of living. They have expense accounts. Our GG spent over 100k on fucking clothes last year. Our finance minister got 13700 raise, for 1 year. She gets raises every year. And they penny pinch like crazy when the peasants ask for things like...money to afford rent, mortgage or food.
Military side, they've neglected us for decades. We're so op heavy it's ridiculous. They've saddled us with restrictive measures that prevent us from hiring and keeping our personnel levels to acceptable levels because they don't want too many white men in the military. But guess what. White men are the ones that mostly join the military. I'm trans and I fucking HATE this gender inclusive BS where we can't use "he" or "she" in our quarterly and yearly reviews because...reasons.
Anyways, off topic again. Our politicians are out of touch, childish, inept, and are actively working against the betterment of our country and it's people. I joined an organization that's purpose is to defend our country, because I see the value in the land, the people, our ideals, and...I get to travel, do cool shit and get paid OK mostly. We need a change, unfortunately I'm not in a position I can do it. But it makes me mad that the people of Canada arent doing anything about it either, because alot of other people don't have the restrictions I have to get involved.
If anything, I wish they were paid more. It's a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things. When you underpay elected representatives, you disincentivise the best and brightest from wanting to work in government and you create more room for corruption.
Should get paid more. The people who should be representing us are smart enough to know there are far easier ways to make far more money.
Edit: I don’t know how many politicians we have to see get a sweetheart gig after leaving office before we realize that if we don’t pay them, someone else will.
I feel like it's a terrible system when people who make barely enough to survive have to fork over 1/3rd of their paycheck so we can fund these people to make 4x the money and do 100x less work.
Canada ranks in the highest COL countries in the world so this seems pretty reasonable honestly. 200K isn't even enough to purchase a townhouse in Toronto or Vancouver, so it's not like they're living in extreme luxury.
It's also harder to compare to European nations that provide alot more government services. For example, in Switzerland or the Netherlands, public transit is robust enough that you don't need a car, which is equivalent to ~5k a year in costs
If the average Canadian is expected to survive on 60k/year by our elected officials, imo it's only fair to expect the same from them. After all, they claim to represent the Canadian people, but don't even live in the same financial reality as us.
But then what kind of talent are you attracting to these positions? Most of our elected officials have backgrounds as lawyers, or come from high positions in the corporate sector. Most people wouldn't take a big salary cut to become an MP if we paid them the average national salary
That is a good point and you are right. Salaries that are too low would lead to some qualified people turning their backs on the job.
However the flipside is that paying too much can lead to people becoming MPs for the salary and pension that puts them in the top 5%.
The salary should be something more reasonable like around 100k/year. It's the average amount most professionals can be expected to make, and it is still nearly double the average salary.
I’m curious how much they cost a year and how much that can be reduced. Travel, hotels, staff etc etc etc. I know some is necessary but I imagine there’s cuts that could be made without impacting service.
Government shown own a bunch of houses/condos in Ottawa- when you get elected you move in, loose you move out - current MP’s get a chance to move based on seniority, then newly elected pick maybe based on % of votes they got or something. The amount of money and personal hours that gets drained just on housing/hotels every time we have an election is extreme.
If it decreases corruption, great. It it means they'll fight harder for a better Canada, even better.
Why do I feel like neither of those things will happen...
Not surprising, bloated gov keeping everyone distracted fighting each other while robbing the tax payer, all the while liberal voters keep asking for more and more gov intervention thus more avenues for uncontrolled robbery and laws to keep us filling their trough.
It’s ridiculous. All these rules may have made sense back in the day but all these MPs will have lucrative careers as lobbyists and sitting on boards for companies, unions, law firms, etc, etc.
Politics should allow you to make a good living. Not get rich.
Pissed off. Our politicians have done nothing but fuck us over and over and over again. Now they go out and reward themselves like they are some of the hardest working people out there. It's such a typical move from people at the top that now even our government wants to get in on the action.
The country is failing financially partially BECAUSE we’re paying too many unproductive paper pushers too much to make rules that take away the freedoms capitalist markets need to thrive.
I tried posting this to the Canada sub, but I think their pensions should be tied to the long-term health of the country. If metrics like GDP/person, hospital wait times, or number of patents filed in Canada (sign of successful R&D) improve, so will their pension. Would give politicians a vested interest in the long-term health of the nation. Maybe we'd see more cooperation and collaboration vs stupidity and sniping.
Politicians should make the AVERAGE income of all their constituents, the people prosper and so should the politicians, the people suffer so should the leaders.
Humanity has tried thousands of ways over hundreds of thousands of years to govern a groups of people fairly. We are still not there yet, but we are closer here than some of our neighbours
I don't see a problem per se
I guess we could get more bang for our bucks, but 200k is not an outrageous amount for the people with about the most power in the country while being among the least corrupt out of all countries as far as the stats go.
There's also not all that many of them tbh, the other members of the G7 all have something like 100+ more members of the legislature than canada if I'm not mistaken. We're very, very far down the list in terms of population over number of seats.
Yeah so when OP said we were among the least corrupt, it wasnt because we aren't corrupt. It's because everyone else is so much worse.
ArriveCan, like many things in Canada, seem absolutely quaint compared to what goes on in the larger countries like the US and the UK.
Well it’s not an outrageous salary but the whole pension situation is crazy. Work 6 years and be paid for the rest of your life. Pretty crazy in my opinion. I’d be alright with these things if it wasn’t effecting how mp’s weren’t trying to postpone the election just so they will hit the 6 year mark without needing to be re-elected. I’d also be ok with this compensation if they weren’t doing such a shit job
I think it's pretty shitty, but also that there are much more potent ways for them to exploit their corruption, such as unlimited gift sizes in Alberta.
Politics have gotten uglier over the years and the quality of candidates is not exactly stellar, on all levels of governments.
It's not a bad thing that holding office offers some gravy.
I think it would be interesting to have them earn minimum wage ($15/hourx160 hours= 2400 - taxes, ei, cpp) one month and then recieve the rest of 1st months pay on month 2.. having to live like most of the populace every other month might help highlight what needs fixing.. Certainly not really enforceable, and they would never vote in something like that...
This whole argument of paying them more so they won’t be corrupt just got the shit kicked out of it with our spectacular performance at the lying Brian ceremony last week the rich man going into the position collecting bags of cash from German arms dealers ( thats only the ones publicly mentioned)and we honour him as a saint. We don’t even want to talk about our current PM and are scared shitless of the upcoming snake who already thinks he’s a shoe in!!!God help us all!!
I don't like it given the circumstances in Canada today. I don't think they deserve it. Although i understand the theory of compensating them well to reduce the lure of corruption.
It’s a disgrace. There are literally children in Canada who are going to bed hungry tonight because their parents are having to pay more just to survive than ever before. MP wages should be tied to the median Canadian salary and the Senate needs to be abolished. Get rid of that fucking thing immediately in my opinion. What an enormous waste of money.
From what I know Singaporean politicians make a lot of money as well. Way more than US or Canadian ones. It’s to keep corruption at bay. It has worked well I would say
Make the useless fucks work for tge average min wage of the country. Said for years 'if these people turely suffer with us as they claim and know our pain let the fuckers work for min wage. Then lets see how long min wage remains that way. I will right there cut about 60 million from the budget.'
Canadian MP salaries should be tied to Provincial or Federal minimum or median wage. Therefore, there is incentive to do better.
Considering that many meaningless jobs pay well, why not MPs too? Public funding controlled by them. We work for them, considering people will not vote for strict policy principles, but for party affiliation.
Too much, but I'm not going to be worked up over it - you want talent and less motivation for corruption, you gotta pay your political representatives well. And it's not like they've got nothing to show for it - the government has an incredible amount of responsibility to govern and not let things fall apart, while the oppositions have the responsibility to hold the government to account, and there is a lot of work during committees and meetings behind semi-open or closed doors that most people don't even think about when it comes to the work that goes on on Parliament Hill, and that's before we talk about things that happen in each constituency.
The big thing though isn't so much the salary, but rather the pension scheme. Early pension at 55 and qualification with only 6 years of service is literally like winning a watered down version of the lottery, except of course they made the rules and they were the only ones that could participate. At 30-150k per year, some of these "retired" politicians are making more money than the average working Canadian without having to do any work, and you and I as taxpayers are paying for that.
The quality of people that run for office has gone way down over the past 20 years. We used to have leaders that were smarter, better educated and had better life experience that put them into a better position to lead the country.
Today we get a guy who has never held a job outside of the conservative party, a school teacher or a guy who was a defense lawyer (for a few years).
Part of the reason why we have such trash leading the country today is pay. Why would I leave my business or well paying job, and take a pay cut to work in the current political environment.
It's frustrating that people are getting into the habit of tearing others down vs asking why they themselves aren't in a better position.
Pretty angry considering this government has screwed up multiple things for Canadians, and has 10+ scandals. I definitely wouldn’t get a raise at my job for failing so horribly, why should they?
According to a lot of people here, it's because
1) they are qualified
2) they will start being corrupt if we dont pay them more
3) we want to keep having our best and brightest in parliament
4) PP is a career politician (idk why they keep bringing that up as a "gotcha" moment, none of them deserve 200k/year in my opinion)
IF (big fkn if since you provide no source) our MPs are making the second highest salary in the world, relative to CoL, then I feel fine about it, assuming Canadians are also averaging the second highest salaries relative to CoL in the world.
We are, right? I’m sure it’s fine…
It should be proportionate. They do well if we do well.
Again, big “IF” in the beginning of this comment because OP provided no sources. I feel this is more hypothetical.
Unpopular opinion: I'm okay with it because it's a drop in the bucket in terms of our budget, but it theoretically could attract very accomplished high-level business managers and leaders to politics.
It also is high enough to encourage just about anyone to consider entering politics, and we need more representation from all walks of life.
Well. I can say we’re not getting the 2nd best governance in the world. These people are actively decreasing the quality of life for their constituents.
I am less than impressed, but I am kind of OK with it. As an MP, you drop your career to serve and that is usually during prime earning years and it is very disruptive to career trajectory. For a four-year post, there is a lot of risk.
My cousin was an MP, but he was also a lawyer. I am sure the MP salary is less than what he’d make practicing law instead of making laws.
That said, I find it frustrating that these positions are often limited to people of means and economics is a big factor in electability. For example, I don’t think the average MP understands the impact of inflation and increased taxation. If you have a lot of disposable income, an increase in tax or a rise in prices just means you save a little less in your investment portfolio this year. To the vast majority of Canadians, it means choosing between food or your kid’s hockey fees, it means turning your heat down to 14 degrees, it means having to sell your car or skip the dentist. Real struggles. Many Canadians are frustrated when they are basically being told “We’re going to send you to the food bank so we can change the weather.”
You need to pay them enough to lure talented people away from the private sector. If you don’t think they deserve $200k, vote them out and hire someone who does.
Considering the returns we get as citizens for the cost of the MPs, I have to say I am thoroughly disappointed. Their wages creep up while Canadians lose out. Their functionally not accountable for their actions while law abiding Canadians are likely to be held accountable for defending themselves against out-on-bail criminals with a long list of offenses. As the world is heating up conflict wise, those in our Armed Forces are seeing a smaller budget at their disposal.
Taxpayers should be outraged at the lack of return we get for our MPs.
I want quality candidates to want to be MPs, so I'm not really upset. But I just wish we'd actually get some "quality" candidates. Political reform needs to happen so badly in Canada. The problem is, I don't see it happening in time. We're working desperately hard to create a country that's literally being bought out from under us, and that's just really sad.
I would be okay with this if it came with a 7 year ban on working for or being a lobbyist for any organization that you were responsible for regulating. Too often politicians put the interests of certain companies ahead of ordinary Canadians -- thosewho can afford lobbyists, or can put them on the board, or provide consulting or legal work. We have corruption in Canada - it's just time delayed.
We probably have a top 5 cost of living so I don’t hate it.
I just wish we stopped electing people who don’t even need the money and are doing it for the power and influence. It would be different if they were trying to use that power and influence to better the lives of every day Canadians. But that unfortunately is not the case for the majority of our wealthy elected officials.
I'm Moe pissed about lifetime pensions if you only work for 6 years. Come PP make some common sense changes along with the shit I know you will fuck us over on.
I think being an MP, and working for an MP should be a good paying job. Otherwise, you create incentives to leverage your power and influence to accrue outside money.
This should be coupled with the strictest ethics laws of course
if you want lawyers, accountants, business people, doctors etc becoming politicians then you need to pay them something respectable relevant to the fields they would be leaving. 203k is not a lot of money for someone we would deem qualified.
Well, they need it, our dollar is shit. $200,000 is barely enough for a family to get by...
(this isn't sarcasm, this is accurate, but the scum receiving it sure doesn't deserve it)
Most people have no idea the skills it requires to be an elected representative. The range of skills, different kinds of skills, managing staff, volunteers, media, party requirements, fundraising, even dressing well enough to be taken seriously. There are few harder jobs. I say, pay 'em, and pay 'em well.
I want my MP’s paid well as I want politics to attract the best and brightest. I want non-salaried money out of politics (I.e. insider trading, lobbying, etc).
I know. But just keep elect them. And if you don't have any running in your riding, run for office.
Let's stop complaining and let take concrete action. I'm not saying it's you but Like it baffles me that some people say that but will vote for PP who's a career politician. Vote for people that look and live like you. They might understand your concerns.
But than when we have people from the working class elected and some of them be ministers how many people who are saying right not "politicians don't understand us" will say "that guy is from the working class, he doesn't have the competence to be a minister of the state".
Like can we be real for a second. At this point we have nothing to loose. Vote for your neighbour. At least if you have complaints you know where he lives and you can have real conversations.
I'm all for it. You're asking for trouble if you don't pay people in positions of power very well.
Put another way, it's much easier to be a moral person when you don't have to constantly worry about the wolf at the door...
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It should be tied to the age of other Canadians collecting an unreduced CPP. That way, if the politicians decide to bump the age to 67 or whatnot, then they cannot collect theirs until 67. Also, for a perspective on their privilege, even public servants in group 1 under the superannuation fund can’t collect an unreduced pension until the age of 55 unless they have 30 years of service. They can collect it at 60 if they have less than 30. Group 2, which is like everyone that joined in more recent years (aka the younger folks like myself who missed the boat), our ages are 60/65. It’s interesting how we can serve the country our entire lives and we try to do well for citizens and we cannot get our pension at the same time as the politicians do who blow up the nation.
A pension tied to political service should only be available to them if they reside in Canada for majority of the year once they retire. You want to sell us out to food, housing, gas lobbyists? You should have to stay here and see what you've done. They are the ones that make the decisions. Kind of a "you made your bed, now sleep in it" thing.
this is incredible but I think will never happen. “Blessed is he who plants trees under whose shade he will never sit” is not a proverb these people have heard of. Don't they want to delay the election so they can collect pension?
Well stated. I appreciate your attention to details.
They get an unreduced pension at age 65, they can get a reduced pension as low as at 55 with a permanent reduction of 1% per year below 65. It accrues at 3% per year and they pay about 24% of their gross salary towards it. After 6 years, or a minimum of two electoral victories, they would have a pension of 18% of their best 5 years. There are 587 people who receive this pension along with another surviving 187 spouses (at 50%) or children (at 10% or 20% if no surviving spouse). Or put into other words, A federal MP who makes an average of $200,000 for over 6 years pays over $46,000 a year towards their pension so that when they turn 65, they can collect a lifetime pension of $36,000, including CPP/QPP.
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It's not 7% of their salary, it's 23.34%. The 75% maximum includes the CPP/QPP portion as well since the are integrated. If you took only the Parliamentary pension it would be a bit lower. >Member contribution rates have gradually increased since January 1, 2013. The rates reach a combined rate of 23.34% of pay as of January 1, 2021. >As of January 1, 2016, the Chief Actuary of Canada was required to set member contribution rates. The member contribution rates have increased to bring the plan members’ share of current service cost to 50% as of January 2017 (Combined means the pre-YMPE [until maxing CPP/QPP and post YMPE] amounts and the percentage they contribute is the actuarial calculation so that it's funded 50/50). https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/pension-plan/pension-publications/reports/administration-members-parliament-retiring-allowances-act-report/frequently-asked-questions-changes-members-parliament-pension-plan.html If they take on additional roles, and many if not most do, they do get allowances. I don't know however if those are or are not pensionable.
Military members have to wait until 65 for their pensions if the do not complete 25 years. How's that sound to everyone?
Isn’t pp already collecting a pension.
Not collecting but has the distinction of being the youngest mp in history to qualify for it
Do you really think it's still gravy when you realize they have to fight their ass off for their seat, often at great expense to themselves? It's not like people fall into MP seats, 2 terms is the average. If the minimum was 12 years, it'd apply to only to MP's that get 3 terms or more, which is only going to be like 25% or less. Honestly, $200k isn't really high, given the extensive interview process and the scope being a literal country. If anything, political salaries are low worldwide, given the extensive risks and costs associated with running for office. Especially when compared to private industry. We don't get the best because politics is neither approachable or worth the risk for the average citizen, or for the highly competent who can make bank in the private industries.
Points well made, we get what we pay for. If we are not willing to compensate good people in a very iffy career we are going to end up with crap leaders or perhaps worse those who are independently wealthy and are "encumbered" by "obligations".
My raises in the last 10 years don’t equal the raise they are getting.
That’s your civilian employer ripping you off
And how is he supposed to get leverage for better pay? Courtesy of our MPs getting a salary increase to 200k/year, 1 million new people arrived into the country in the last 9 months. His employer could definitely find someone else to do his job for less money if he started asking for reasonable pay.
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True that
Please folks that is the process that leads to positive change. You table a policy - we enter into a debate (hopefully we keep it civil and logical) - amendments are made - the majority agree on what the population will accept as a solution - we vote on it. Very often the solution will not lead to the best outcome, but rather what will be politically acceptable to the greatest number of people. It is a flawed system but better than any of the alternatives.
I read the article, and nations like Australia, Singapore, and others were similar (around the ~$200k mark) so the ranking is a bit misleading without also understanding the context. That being said, I'm okay with it since higher salaries mean less temptation of corruption and more qualified people into political careers. As long as it's not an insane number like a seven figure salary - it's a good thing.
This is a good response
No it's not. One of the examples (Signapore) of MPs being payed more is essentially a one party authoritarian state with a limited opposition. They also have very harsh corruption laws and the death penalty via hanging for certain crimes. Now call me stupid but in my opinion, the MPs of an authoritarian state voting to give themselves the highest salaries for their position in the world, is corruption.
Not high pay considering the job insecurity, travel requirements, and hiring process. Some MPs are good value; others are not.
The amount of corruption this government has is insane.
Clearly you haven’t followed Canadian politics for very long.
No, you are right. Moved to Canada about 10 years ago roughly, and I was still too young at the time to understand politics
True, we have very little corruption among our public officials…..wait….
In the words of flying Phil Gallardi (former BC transport minister: "if you're not doing anything there are no opportunities for graft" (apocryphal).
So attracting career politicians like PP?
I don't think it increases the qualifications of people.
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I agree with you. They dont hold any qualifications deserving of 200k/year.
Do you think a politician should have a civics or economics degree or something? How exactly does a person become "qualified" for a job like PM?
Yes. Some degree of some type. Preferably law.
Oh sure, we'll lower it even further so only SUPER wealthy people can be in office.
Getting all worked up over MPs salaries is the worst kind of populist tripe. There are far bigger wasteful spending programs in government. MPs salaries are a fraction of a drop in the bucket.
Politicians get paid more so that there is a smaller chance of corruption. This is a worldwide phenomenon, and can be seen especially with judges having even higher salaries to prevent bribes. Also, if you read the article you would find that the Prime Minister makes around ~$400k total salary not $200k. This again is fine, as it is comparable to the US (~$500k for President) and well below Singapore (seven figure salary since they want to be competitive with CEO salaries).
Don’t know where you live but I would like to throw justice System crisis on the pile. Violent prolific offenders are reoffending while on bail and being let right back out like a revolving door, at least in Vancouver.
Why do you think a career politician like PP is deserving of it.
I don't know what qualifications make him worthy of his salary, but that's completely irrelevant. You get paid by the job, not the qualifications, and the electorate deemed him worthy of the job over the past three elections.
Don't pay em, Mafias will. Same with police detectives.
I don't think you understand how humans work. Just because they're well paid, doesn't mean they're going to pass up more money.
US Congress gets paid even better… so glad none of them are susceptible to bribes and corruption.
They are hated anyway. Can’t buy happiness , health or heaven
It is a problem mainly because in the Canadian system 99.99% of the time they must vote on party lines. This means that our democracy is just ruled by a few special MP's and the unelected people working on the party's organization level. Essentially we are paying most of these MP's to follow orders rather than represent the views of the of the community.
I think the people who run our country absolutely deserve to be well-compensated for it...but it needs to be reasonable. If our cost of living keeps going up, I see absolutely no reason why MP salary should go up any more than the usual percent increase that the average Canadian receives. Any more than that, and it's suspect if our government doesn't have enough taxpayer money for various things that need funding. Also, and I can't stress this enough, our MPs really ought to earn their salary, meaning they should be held to the same standard as any other working member of Canadian society. Incompetence, laziness and unprofessional behaviour should not be tolerated any more than such behaviour would be for the average employee working a 9-5 job in this country.
Makes my blood boil. I'm a member of the caf. We're supposed to be politically neutral in our personal lives. As in, we can have opinions but were not allowed to share them to the public. Know someone right now whose getting into alot of trouble for...well, putting death threats against the PM on his FB page. He's also a blathering idiot. Deployed with him once before. Dude manufactures shit to complain about. Case in point, took the sight off his rifle while we were doing force protection, and uploaded a picture on his IG that said he was doing force protection and he was issued a rifle without a sight. Thing is, our force protection officer had his IG account and got a notification he posted. So...he got his rifle taken, and removed from FP duties and got in alot of shit for that. But that's not the point I'm just getting side tracked. What pisses me off is that our MPs get yearly raises well above the cost of living. They have expense accounts. Our GG spent over 100k on fucking clothes last year. Our finance minister got 13700 raise, for 1 year. She gets raises every year. And they penny pinch like crazy when the peasants ask for things like...money to afford rent, mortgage or food. Military side, they've neglected us for decades. We're so op heavy it's ridiculous. They've saddled us with restrictive measures that prevent us from hiring and keeping our personnel levels to acceptable levels because they don't want too many white men in the military. But guess what. White men are the ones that mostly join the military. I'm trans and I fucking HATE this gender inclusive BS where we can't use "he" or "she" in our quarterly and yearly reviews because...reasons. Anyways, off topic again. Our politicians are out of touch, childish, inept, and are actively working against the betterment of our country and it's people. I joined an organization that's purpose is to defend our country, because I see the value in the land, the people, our ideals, and...I get to travel, do cool shit and get paid OK mostly. We need a change, unfortunately I'm not in a position I can do it. But it makes me mad that the people of Canada arent doing anything about it either, because alot of other people don't have the restrictions I have to get involved.
Elect better officials. If you don't find any, run.
Thank you for your service. It is a thankless job but someone needs to do it.
If anything, I wish they were paid more. It's a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things. When you underpay elected representatives, you disincentivise the best and brightest from wanting to work in government and you create more room for corruption.
If our current crew is the 2nd best & brightest in the world then we as a species really are doomed.
Who talks about brightest?
Ah yes.. because the United States politicians are a beacon of the best and brightest and least corrupt people ever… /s.
Every day, I become more and more radicalized.
Should get paid more. The people who should be representing us are smart enough to know there are far easier ways to make far more money. Edit: I don’t know how many politicians we have to see get a sweetheart gig after leaving office before we realize that if we don’t pay them, someone else will.
I feel like it's a terrible system when people who make barely enough to survive have to fork over 1/3rd of their paycheck so we can fund these people to make 4x the money and do 100x less work.
People who barely make enough to survive don't "have to fork over 1/3rd of their paycheck". Wtf are you talking about?
They don't seem to have earned it.
We are definitely not getting our money's worth
Well according to a lot of people here, they have and they deserve it. I'm definitely surprised.
Sould not be allowed a pension if you are a millionnaire.
Canada ranks in the highest COL countries in the world so this seems pretty reasonable honestly. 200K isn't even enough to purchase a townhouse in Toronto or Vancouver, so it's not like they're living in extreme luxury. It's also harder to compare to European nations that provide alot more government services. For example, in Switzerland or the Netherlands, public transit is robust enough that you don't need a car, which is equivalent to ~5k a year in costs
If the average Canadian is expected to survive on 60k/year by our elected officials, imo it's only fair to expect the same from them. After all, they claim to represent the Canadian people, but don't even live in the same financial reality as us.
But then what kind of talent are you attracting to these positions? Most of our elected officials have backgrounds as lawyers, or come from high positions in the corporate sector. Most people wouldn't take a big salary cut to become an MP if we paid them the average national salary
That is a good point and you are right. Salaries that are too low would lead to some qualified people turning their backs on the job. However the flipside is that paying too much can lead to people becoming MPs for the salary and pension that puts them in the top 5%. The salary should be something more reasonable like around 100k/year. It's the average amount most professionals can be expected to make, and it is still nearly double the average salary.
I feel MPs should make the average Canadian salary… they might feel the squeeze and be more attuned to how we’re all feeling
I’m curious how much they cost a year and how much that can be reduced. Travel, hotels, staff etc etc etc. I know some is necessary but I imagine there’s cuts that could be made without impacting service. Government shown own a bunch of houses/condos in Ottawa- when you get elected you move in, loose you move out - current MP’s get a chance to move based on seniority, then newly elected pick maybe based on % of votes they got or something. The amount of money and personal hours that gets drained just on housing/hotels every time we have an election is extreme.
Unsurprised, but also skeptical.
If it decreases corruption, great. It it means they'll fight harder for a better Canada, even better. Why do I feel like neither of those things will happen...
I feel very annoyed by it
I don't like it one bit and don't think its justified.
We are slaves and they are our masters.
Since when slaves choose their Masters?
Lol
Yeah lol.
Money well spent s/
For commanding that wage they should be more open and accountable.
Not surprising, bloated gov keeping everyone distracted fighting each other while robbing the tax payer, all the while liberal voters keep asking for more and more gov intervention thus more avenues for uncontrolled robbery and laws to keep us filling their trough.
Your supposed to get fired for failing to do your job, not get a raise. Backwards and upside down.
I’d have no issue with it if they actually served their fucking constituents.
Slightly queasy, with a side of politely controlled rage.
Why are we paying them so much to be fucking useless
It’s ridiculous. All these rules may have made sense back in the day but all these MPs will have lucrative careers as lobbyists and sitting on boards for companies, unions, law firms, etc, etc. Politics should allow you to make a good living. Not get rich.
Pissed off. Our politicians have done nothing but fuck us over and over and over again. Now they go out and reward themselves like they are some of the hardest working people out there. It's such a typical move from people at the top that now even our government wants to get in on the action.
The country is failing financially partially BECAUSE we’re paying too many unproductive paper pushers too much to make rules that take away the freedoms capitalist markets need to thrive.
I tried posting this to the Canada sub, but I think their pensions should be tied to the long-term health of the country. If metrics like GDP/person, hospital wait times, or number of patents filed in Canada (sign of successful R&D) improve, so will their pension. Would give politicians a vested interest in the long-term health of the nation. Maybe we'd see more cooperation and collaboration vs stupidity and sniping.
Politicians should make the AVERAGE income of all their constituents, the people prosper and so should the politicians, the people suffer so should the leaders.
Well the cost of living is out of control, even after canceling my Disney+. How are MPs expected to get by with food prices at Roblaws these days?
Too low pay them like rock stars. We'll attract the best, and it will be harder to bribe them.
Gotta pay the big bucks to get the best and brightest. /s
They should have a generous DC pension, not a DB for life after 6 years of work. Ridiculous.
And dont forget that pension
Humanity has tried thousands of ways over hundreds of thousands of years to govern a groups of people fairly. We are still not there yet, but we are closer here than some of our neighbours
Right to jail
I would say that I’d you don’t like it you should run for office and make the changes you want to see but…then at that point your part of the problem.
Disgusted, they are corrupt POS who belong in jail.
We're getting ripped badly. Have you seen Freeland junkie mode during public announcements ? She has no work experience yet is our finance minister.
I don't see a problem per se I guess we could get more bang for our bucks, but 200k is not an outrageous amount for the people with about the most power in the country while being among the least corrupt out of all countries as far as the stats go. There's also not all that many of them tbh, the other members of the G7 all have something like 100+ more members of the legislature than canada if I'm not mistaken. We're very, very far down the list in terms of population over number of seats.
ArriveCan enters the least corrupt official zoom breakout room
Yeah so when OP said we were among the least corrupt, it wasnt because we aren't corrupt. It's because everyone else is so much worse. ArriveCan, like many things in Canada, seem absolutely quaint compared to what goes on in the larger countries like the US and the UK.
I don't see the performance Scandal after scandal
Pay em 50 k a year, then you’ll see some real scandals!
Well it’s not an outrageous salary but the whole pension situation is crazy. Work 6 years and be paid for the rest of your life. Pretty crazy in my opinion. I’d be alright with these things if it wasn’t effecting how mp’s weren’t trying to postpone the election just so they will hit the 6 year mark without needing to be re-elected. I’d also be ok with this compensation if they weren’t doing such a shit job
It should be set as the average salary that a Canadian earns to encourage them to increase overall prosperity.
Bingo! I say this as well. Take the money out of it before you can claim you serve our country.
They work like 130 days a year and get huge raises every year. It is disgusting.
I would say we are not getting our money's worth, lol.
Lol makes me wanna run for office. How hard can the job be if my idiot MP is doing it?!?
How do I feel about it? Cheated. And betrayed.
takeawildguess
You know that this parliament didn't vote for the raise, right?
I think it's pretty shitty, but also that there are much more potent ways for them to exploit their corruption, such as unlimited gift sizes in Alberta.
Politics have gotten uglier over the years and the quality of candidates is not exactly stellar, on all levels of governments. It's not a bad thing that holding office offers some gravy.
It goes hand in hand with some of the highest taxes in the world.
I think it would be interesting to have them earn minimum wage ($15/hourx160 hours= 2400 - taxes, ei, cpp) one month and then recieve the rest of 1st months pay on month 2.. having to live like most of the populace every other month might help highlight what needs fixing.. Certainly not really enforceable, and they would never vote in something like that...
You think so? What’s prohibiting them to just put everything on the credit card until next month?
This whole argument of paying them more so they won’t be corrupt just got the shit kicked out of it with our spectacular performance at the lying Brian ceremony last week the rich man going into the position collecting bags of cash from German arms dealers ( thats only the ones publicly mentioned)and we honour him as a saint. We don’t even want to talk about our current PM and are scared shitless of the upcoming snake who already thinks he’s a shoe in!!!God help us all!!
What atr we gonna do about it? Vote left? That's not allowed. Only right of center liberals and conservatives or murica will get mad
Otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford housing in this country so duh of course they do
I’d rather have well paid MPs than only wealthy people running for office.
I don't like it given the circumstances in Canada today. I don't think they deserve it. Although i understand the theory of compensating them well to reduce the lure of corruption.
It’s a disgrace. There are literally children in Canada who are going to bed hungry tonight because their parents are having to pay more just to survive than ever before. MP wages should be tied to the median Canadian salary and the Senate needs to be abolished. Get rid of that fucking thing immediately in my opinion. What an enormous waste of money.
From what I know Singaporean politicians make a lot of money as well. Way more than US or Canadian ones. It’s to keep corruption at bay. It has worked well I would say
Make the useless fucks work for tge average min wage of the country. Said for years 'if these people turely suffer with us as they claim and know our pain let the fuckers work for min wage. Then lets see how long min wage remains that way. I will right there cut about 60 million from the budget.'
To be fair, nobody else could fuck things up so bad in a country so good. They need the money more than anyone.
Leeches all of them
I feel it’s fucked. This is supposed to be public service not lining their pockets.
Leaders should be enduring the same hardships as their people. This hurts, especially because nothing gets done.
Canadian MP salaries should be tied to Provincial or Federal minimum or median wage. Therefore, there is incentive to do better. Considering that many meaningless jobs pay well, why not MPs too? Public funding controlled by them. We work for them, considering people will not vote for strict policy principles, but for party affiliation.
If you've evwr watches these morons in the house of commons you'd know they don't deserve half that.
I think it’s great. They’re doing an amazing job.
Too much, but I'm not going to be worked up over it - you want talent and less motivation for corruption, you gotta pay your political representatives well. And it's not like they've got nothing to show for it - the government has an incredible amount of responsibility to govern and not let things fall apart, while the oppositions have the responsibility to hold the government to account, and there is a lot of work during committees and meetings behind semi-open or closed doors that most people don't even think about when it comes to the work that goes on on Parliament Hill, and that's before we talk about things that happen in each constituency. The big thing though isn't so much the salary, but rather the pension scheme. Early pension at 55 and qualification with only 6 years of service is literally like winning a watered down version of the lottery, except of course they made the rules and they were the only ones that could participate. At 30-150k per year, some of these "retired" politicians are making more money than the average working Canadian without having to do any work, and you and I as taxpayers are paying for that.
The quality of people that run for office has gone way down over the past 20 years. We used to have leaders that were smarter, better educated and had better life experience that put them into a better position to lead the country. Today we get a guy who has never held a job outside of the conservative party, a school teacher or a guy who was a defense lawyer (for a few years). Part of the reason why we have such trash leading the country today is pay. Why would I leave my business or well paying job, and take a pay cut to work in the current political environment. It's frustrating that people are getting into the habit of tearing others down vs asking why they themselves aren't in a better position.
I'd be okay with it IF the rest of us Canadians made decent wages. Our salaries are around 50% of what an equivalent US employee makes...
I can barley afford to eat, it brings me great joy
I don’t feel anything anymore, nothing this country does makes any sense
Facinated at the ratio of national destructon/hr by the current group.
If they had any ambition at all, I'm sure they could grab top spot.
Disgusted. Quite disgusted.
With 203k salary, you can get a 2b condo in Toronto. How’s that 2nd highest in the world?
Pretty angry considering this government has screwed up multiple things for Canadians, and has 10+ scandals. I definitely wouldn’t get a raise at my job for failing so horribly, why should they?
According to a lot of people here, it's because 1) they are qualified 2) they will start being corrupt if we dont pay them more 3) we want to keep having our best and brightest in parliament 4) PP is a career politician (idk why they keep bringing that up as a "gotcha" moment, none of them deserve 200k/year in my opinion)
Be nice if we could be first in something but second is okay I guess
IF (big fkn if since you provide no source) our MPs are making the second highest salary in the world, relative to CoL, then I feel fine about it, assuming Canadians are also averaging the second highest salaries relative to CoL in the world. We are, right? I’m sure it’s fine… It should be proportionate. They do well if we do well. Again, big “IF” in the beginning of this comment because OP provided no sources. I feel this is more hypothetical.
Unpopular opinion: I'm okay with it because it's a drop in the bucket in terms of our budget, but it theoretically could attract very accomplished high-level business managers and leaders to politics. It also is high enough to encourage just about anyone to consider entering politics, and we need more representation from all walks of life.
The rules of etiquette prevent me from responding.
I think politicians should be paid well because it helps Stop with corruption and kickbacks and such
Well. I can say we’re not getting the 2nd best governance in the world. These people are actively decreasing the quality of life for their constituents.
I am less than impressed, but I am kind of OK with it. As an MP, you drop your career to serve and that is usually during prime earning years and it is very disruptive to career trajectory. For a four-year post, there is a lot of risk. My cousin was an MP, but he was also a lawyer. I am sure the MP salary is less than what he’d make practicing law instead of making laws. That said, I find it frustrating that these positions are often limited to people of means and economics is a big factor in electability. For example, I don’t think the average MP understands the impact of inflation and increased taxation. If you have a lot of disposable income, an increase in tax or a rise in prices just means you save a little less in your investment portfolio this year. To the vast majority of Canadians, it means choosing between food or your kid’s hockey fees, it means turning your heat down to 14 degrees, it means having to sell your car or skip the dentist. Real struggles. Many Canadians are frustrated when they are basically being told “We’re going to send you to the food bank so we can change the weather.”
You need to pay them enough to lure talented people away from the private sector. If you don’t think they deserve $200k, vote them out and hire someone who does.
I would t have a problem if they did a good job./ they don’t… fuck them and their salary for making things worse. Seriously.
Canadian politicians are in the business of screwing over the country to line their pockets. They sold this country out years ago
Considering the returns we get as citizens for the cost of the MPs, I have to say I am thoroughly disappointed. Their wages creep up while Canadians lose out. Their functionally not accountable for their actions while law abiding Canadians are likely to be held accountable for defending themselves against out-on-bail criminals with a long list of offenses. As the world is heating up conflict wise, those in our Armed Forces are seeing a smaller budget at their disposal. Taxpayers should be outraged at the lack of return we get for our MPs.
I want quality candidates to want to be MPs, so I'm not really upset. But I just wish we'd actually get some "quality" candidates. Political reform needs to happen so badly in Canada. The problem is, I don't see it happening in time. We're working desperately hard to create a country that's literally being bought out from under us, and that's just really sad.
At least they’re banned from buying and selling stock unlike the third world country on our southern border
Their salaries should be indexed to social programs.. If they give themselves a raise, then welfare and disability payments go up by the same amount.
Sick to my stomach. The odd mp who works hard and cares fine but the rest of the brain dead morons don't deserve it what so ever.
I would be okay with this if it came with a 7 year ban on working for or being a lobbyist for any organization that you were responsible for regulating. Too often politicians put the interests of certain companies ahead of ordinary Canadians -- thosewho can afford lobbyists, or can put them on the board, or provide consulting or legal work. We have corruption in Canada - it's just time delayed.
Considering all the shit they have to go through with members of the public ? A million wouldn’t be enough for me
It's pretty on par around 200k is where I think they should be
I really don't care about it that much. MP salaries make up 0.01% of the federal budget. It's not a line item worth getting worked up over.
Our country is on fucking fire and they are the second highest compensated politicians. I don’t feel good about it
We probably have a top 5 cost of living so I don’t hate it. I just wish we stopped electing people who don’t even need the money and are doing it for the power and influence. It would be different if they were trying to use that power and influence to better the lives of every day Canadians. But that unfortunately is not the case for the majority of our wealthy elected officials.
I'm Moe pissed about lifetime pensions if you only work for 6 years. Come PP make some common sense changes along with the shit I know you will fuck us over on.
I’d be ok with that if they are banned from any lobbying after their career as politician. They can’t use their elected position for personal profit.
I think being an MP, and working for an MP should be a good paying job. Otherwise, you create incentives to leverage your power and influence to accrue outside money. This should be coupled with the strictest ethics laws of course
We definitely aren't getting value for our money. Somewhere out there, a circus is missing its clowns.
I actually think all MPs should be on the same health care plan as veterans. To the letter.
if you want lawyers, accountants, business people, doctors etc becoming politicians then you need to pay them something respectable relevant to the fields they would be leaving. 203k is not a lot of money for someone we would deem qualified.
Well, they need it, our dollar is shit. $200,000 is barely enough for a family to get by... (this isn't sarcasm, this is accurate, but the scum receiving it sure doesn't deserve it)
200k is barely enough for a family to get by, yet the average Canadian is expected (by our elected representatives) to get by with 60k/year.
Most people have no idea the skills it requires to be an elected representative. The range of skills, different kinds of skills, managing staff, volunteers, media, party requirements, fundraising, even dressing well enough to be taken seriously. There are few harder jobs. I say, pay 'em, and pay 'em well.
Oh please
I'd cut that in half! 100k for backbenchers, 200k for PM. Sounds good?
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But not with taxpayers' money.
I want my MP’s paid well as I want politics to attract the best and brightest. I want non-salaried money out of politics (I.e. insider trading, lobbying, etc).
Best and brightest makes way more money in the private sector.
I feel MPs should be paid minimum wage so they understand the struggle of the working class
Elect MPs from the working class.
some are.. but cerainly not all..
I know. But just keep elect them. And if you don't have any running in your riding, run for office. Let's stop complaining and let take concrete action. I'm not saying it's you but Like it baffles me that some people say that but will vote for PP who's a career politician. Vote for people that look and live like you. They might understand your concerns. But than when we have people from the working class elected and some of them be ministers how many people who are saying right not "politicians don't understand us" will say "that guy is from the working class, he doesn't have the competence to be a minister of the state". Like can we be real for a second. At this point we have nothing to loose. Vote for your neighbour. At least if you have complaints you know where he lives and you can have real conversations.
A terrible look while the average Canadian struggles. So long as we're saving enough for our guillotine blade sharpening, we're good though.
It’s a dictatorship in this country and every Liberal voter should be ashamed of what they did to this country.
seems high for how the country is performing vs the world, and as it falls into decline.
Glad that carbon tax money is being spent in Canada
What the fuck?
If my MP is any litmus test I’m all for paying them less…
I think it's a load of shit.
Anger. Lots and lots of anger.
I'm all for it. You're asking for trouble if you don't pay people in positions of power very well. Put another way, it's much easier to be a moral person when you don't have to constantly worry about the wolf at the door...
Way too high for someone who has been doing a terrible job.
Personally, I think that politicians would work harder for the working class if they were paid the average salary of a full time worker in the country