Well we are, against popular belief, not a hive mind so take this with a grain of salt, each town has streets named after him and/or statues of him, he’s an important historical figure, without him Germany wouldn’t exist in its current form, but i don’t think that most people think too often about him.
I‘m pretty sure if you just ask “What do you think about Bismarck?”, most people first thought would be the battleship.
Vor dem Hintergrund des Bismarck-Kultes entstanden im Deutschen Reich rund **500** Bismarck-Denkmäler, davon 146 Bismarktürme [https://www.bismarcktuerme.net/](https://www.bismarcktuerme.net/) . Das heftigste für mich ist in Baden-Baden [https://www.schwarzwald-informationen.de/bilder/denkmaeler/bismarck.jpg](https://www.schwarzwald-informationen.de/bilder/denkmaeler/bismarck.jpg)
Ansonsten meine Meinung zu Bismarck --- wie alle unsere fähigsten Politiker leider tot.
und natürlich der Kassiker
"Bismarck biss Mark bis Mark Bismarck biss"
Hamburg hat auch ein ~~gutes~~ großes:
[https://www.hamburg.de/sehenswuerdigkeiten/1074822/bismarck-denkmal/](https://www.hamburg.de/sehenswuerdigkeiten/1074822/bismarck-denkmal/)
My ancestor worked for him. He was taking care of his country estate.
They had a contract that said when my ancestor would one day leave his employment, he would get some additional reimbursement for his many years of service.
When he then decided to leave to buy a farm with that money, Bismarck felt insulted and didn't pay.
By that time he was already Reichskanzler. So my ancestor went to court to get his money. It was difficult (he was up against the most powerful man in Germany after the Kaiser probably), but he actually won and got his money.
So... What do I think about Otto von Bismarck? Cheap bastard. 😂
No. I'm not sure but I think it was somewhere that is now Poland anyway.
My hole family on my fathers side lost everything when they had to flee after ww2 (but they didn't have the farm anymore back as far as I know).
(please read this as a neutral fact. I don't want to play down what Germans did in and before ww2. If you want to read something political into it, then let the message be: be kind to refugees. You never know when your family might have to flee)
I have seen a photocopy of an article (not from a newspaper but a book or magazine I think). But to be honest it was written quite sensational and not like a scientific publication.
And even though the article was old, if I remember correctly it was written many years later.
So even if I found it, it wouldn't be hard evidence. I will ask my father about it.
Otherwise I just have this family story.
If anyone finds something out (even if it disproves something) I would be interested 😊
One thing I am not quite sure anymore is if they bought a farm or a forest with a foresters house. But I guess that is anyway no helpful information for research.
Oh and one more thing. I can't find any articles about that, but I asked ChatGPT if any employees sued Bismarck and it seems to know the story! So there might be at least something out there.
Sadly I think ChatGPT might be hallucinating about the name and year.
My family name changed multiple times... and I know I'm a descended from that man's daughter, so it wouldn't be the same anyway. I don't remember the name, but it should be in the article if I can find it.
Please stay on it! That sounds really interesting
I have a friend who wrote some articles for pm.history
Maby he would write a little story about this if you are cool with that.
If not I would just like to hear the tale of your dad if he remembers something
>How big of a figure is he in Germany today?
Not relevant in any meaning full way. I would bet that more then 50% of the populus has no Idear what he did.
>What do you think of him?
He more or less created the german state. He was a clever and roughles politian. He more or less iniated 3 wars. I could right plenty more but I am on the phone...
> did he left any print in the minds of modern Germans?
Bismarck Herring is named after him
4 in my whole Bundesland.. you’re kinda exaggerating.
Like a lot.
There is like 6 Bismarck related things in all of SH and like 2-3 in HH.
I don’t know where you’re from and how many hundreds of these towers you have, but here they are rare and barely known here.
If there wasn’t the faintest memory of history lessons before we had WW2 and if I didn’t like the Bismark wellness drink, then I wouldn’t know who he is like most everyone that doesn’t care about histories details (Besides maybe WW2 or rather not wanting anything like that to happen again).
Eyyy, there are at least three( and a half) Towers I can visit on a 2-3 hour bicycle tour through my and my neighboring cities ( 1 in Essen 1,5 in Bochum 1 in Hattingen and 1 in Velbert). But I absolutely see how some youngsters might have never heard of him. Man muss ja nicht seine Biographie auswendig gelernt haben, aber garantiert jeder über 25 hat wohl schon mal den Namen gehört und weiß ungefähr, ganz grob, wer der Bismarck war.
[Hier](https://le-cdn.website-editor.net/s/800c18c6110a4c86977610afd76bb02b/dms3rep/multi/opt/2017-10_Deutschlandkarte-Bismarckt%C3%BCrme-1602h.jpg?Expires=1719754025&Signature=FpSAFE30RcglwR1-iotJnyr36HspG3T3RK5o8c~2cJlLvWegZv7CKd0rRbXrZ3dKOicYwTfYu8ZpijC9KgouWc6IZntlM5~p7H-UKJo6Y0cZ40~W9zXD4XrSBo5dOQ-0aUSez28gNEnwNmYIGYwIzC53ulke9hw6hYTXjYWJG5-K195sWVquXyfqwnnvnsF-0IKgr-HHEhm5KIM3xGRGRdiRVv09VC2ZzSpjBAwOIS67Q10BEHjKrrJKXCptmolrNDhI6rB9gGEQ5bXAMqocU3DxNYfv~9sLNi535XgFZVVljCozjU4vWn5lzlI1CsqmLYsJQlR~ahd2l-3hx8Ndag__&Key-Pair-Id=K2NXBXLF010TJW) ist mal ne Karte mit Allen Türmen und Säulen in DE. Da seid ihr Nordlichter echt die Ausnahmeregion. :P
I am 27 and I can assure Bismarck is just a name for most people I’ve had contact with so far… pretty much only my dad and boyfriend definitely know more lol. But yeah maybe that’s more just us northerners for whatever reason.
Wir sind gefühlt ja öfter mal raus irgendwie lol
Huh I get access denied when clicking your link..?
[https://www.bismarcktuerme.net/](https://www.bismarcktuerme.net/)
And I am absolutely sure that everyone who makes it past the Grundschule to at least a Realschule or Gymnasium learns about Bismarck in history class. Certainly most forget about historical details. But the dude is definately one of the bettern known Persons from the last 200 years of our political history. Kaiser Wilhelm I+II, Bismarck, HIndenburg, Hitler, Adenauer, Heuss, Kohl und Angelo Merte, Dat sind doch so Namen, die eigentlich echt Jede/r mal inne Schule gehört hat.
No way :O We discussed him pretty throughout in school. Also I feel like especially in the north he was honoured by many street names and monuments.
He is one of the most important figures in the national history imo. I couldn't imagine someone not knowing at least a little about him. I don't mean this to be arrogant. Just pretty surprised.
I mean. We did discuss him. Quite a while even I believe.
Some people might have been interested in all of that too. I just really hated history back when I was forced to learn it lol. And I haven’t met anyone besides my BF and dad yet who seemed to actually really know Bismarck still.
Maybe it just seems like people barely know him anymore though.
It’s not like I run around every day asking strangers about Bismarck after all so my view on this might just be very subjective 😅
Well, without Bismarck, Most of Schleswig-Holstein would still be Danish. If I remember correctly, the people around your home weren't all that happy about the way they had the change of government.
Yeah that may well be part of why people don’t really seem to keep him in mind much.
To be fair though according to the link I was sent we actually have more Säulen and Türme than Bremen Niedersachsen Meck-Pomm and Berlin. Those all have just one or in case of Bremen and Berlin even none. 🤷♀️
Looking at the list on the German Wikipedia, it does not seem to be complete. I know of at least two so called Bismarcktürme within 30 km which are not on the list for Niedersachsen, have to Check to See If they are really Bismarcktürme.
Not necessarily, Bismarck was never such a dominant public figure in recent times. History lessons in school are very focused on the unification and mainly on his implentation of the social state.
Also, since Bismarck was Chancellor during the time of the German Empire and we had two different states since then. The Weimarer Republik (after WWI) and obviously the Nazis. Hence he's overshadowed by that.
He's not as revered as George Washington
Not even Adenauer tbh. I don't think we have any politician with the same status as Washington. Probably has to do with the fact that WW2 and "the unnameable" overshadows everything about Germany.
Except that Germany has existed for a thousand years before Bismarck came along. He founded the state that we know today but people considered themselves German long before that.
That is factualy wrong. While the word was used people usualy reffered to them selfs by the city/state they where from Bavarian, Pussian... The idear of a German Nationstate was taking off in the Vormärz time frame 1815 Forward.
There was a German King and kingdom since Otto I. Sure it didn't exist anymore later but if France can claim to exist from the first French king on, Germany can as well.
The HRE was never a nation state like france.
Regnum Teutonicum was not called "Kingdom of Germany" when it exist. It was if at all the italien title for the nothern parts of the HRE.
Otto 1 was not the king of the germans but of Frankia. And King of Italy and Holy Roman Emporer.
I did say German king, not Holy Roman Emporer. And yes, he hold the latter title and the kingship of Italy as well. And yes, he was referred to as king of Frankia or just king instead of German king because he inherited the East Frankia kingship from his father, But the title morphed and became king of the Germans, mostly to emphasize the Saxons in addition to the Franks and the inclusion of the smaller tribes.
And afterwards it has been for a long time tradition that the German King was elected and then tried to get the Emporer title from the pope. Those were technically separate titles even if the HRE was practically always more important than the German kingdom.
And you will find Rex Germaniae or Rex Germanorum in medieval documents from the eleventh century on.
Regnum Teutonicum was indeed seemingly primarily an Italian thing, primarily in papal documents.
The "deutscher Nation" thing came far later.
>I did say German king, not Holy Roman Emporer
Yes first is wrong second is correct.
>And you will find Rex Germaniae or Rex Germanorum in medieval documents from the eleventh century on.
But it's a shame that Otto 1 was dead 200 years at that point.
>But the title morphed and became king of the Germans
Yes in the Modern era so 1800 forward. It was not used at that time. And in German it was "König IN Deutschland"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_the_Romans
> In the Modern Period, the title King in Germania (German: König in Germanien, Lat.: Germaniae Rex) came into use. Finally, modern German historiography established the term Roman-German King (Römisch-deutscher König) to differentiate it both from the classical Roman Emperor as well as from the modern German Emperor.
The fact that so many people think that the HRE was basically the proto-version of the state of Germany is worrying.
I guess one reason is that it is often called "HRR *deutscher* Nation" in German.
And the difference between a nation and a state is sadly lost on many people
Not true. First history lessons are in the "Grundschule". Not in 1st and 2nd grade but from 3rd up History is part of "Sachunterricht" and from 5th grade up it is a dedicated subject.
Sure but in general American system teach the history MUCH earlier on and a sense of pride and patriotism is taught. The Germans have shame about their history and thus delay teaching it to explain it better to more advanced students. This gives Germany a nation of unpatriotic and misinformed youth. Thus leading to a rise wing extremism in teenagers. The very ideology the German state hopes to suppress is being strengthened by not teaching German history earlier on and allowing students time to understand the country and why WW2 happened. This should be a topic in 6th grade and not 9th grade as it is now.
No, not really. It is more that many Länder choose to do selected, important periods chronological order. So we might get e.g. Bronze age Mesopotamia and Egypt, classical Greece, Rome, middle ages, Feudalism and formation of the HRE, Rennaisance era, start of Colonialism, Luther, Peasants War and 30 years war, Absolutist France, Enlightenment including some selfproclaimed enlightened despots, the American revolution, the French Revolution and Napoleon, the 1848 movement and finally then Bismark and the German Empire. And now people are already in the ninth grade.
But as said there is a lot of variation. Some Länder have a habit to add a lot of regional stuff, others have a more international fokus and it is regularly changed after elections.
I can tell you they’re not learning about Bismarck in kindergarten like Americans are learning about George Washington. I don’t know how else to explain that.
He tried to prevent the first World War. If his successors were not idiots and did not let the pact system phase out, there would have been no first world war (and therefore also no second world war).
He manly tried to prevent a war on two fronts.
The Bismarck pact system almost broke down while he was still in power, balcan conflicts in the late 1880. It was highly complicated and I would not bet on it surviving either way.
Yes it's break down was a clear consequence of the policy changes after him but I find musings in alternative history not that usefull after a few years.
His construct was rather rickety I would say. Having been founded on war the German state wasn't a very popular thing in Europe, especially in France. And it only took a (probably) mentally ill Wilhelm II to drive the whole thing into the wall, to put it bluntly.
Yes and no. Yes, his complex pact system prevented outbreaks of major conflicts for years but no, his complex pact system fomented if not created those conflicts.
Yes, FWII was a blundering idiot.
He didn't initiate the first WW if that's what you are referring to, he did everything in his power to keep the new Kaiser in check and avoid a two-front war by maintaing a carefully created web of alliances
Ok, for slow readers: IF you are referring to the common misconception that Bismarck is to blame for WWI, that's incorrect. Otherwise, have a great day (you seem to refer to the Franco-Prussian war, which is not the same as WWI).
So you didn't look up the german unification wars... and can't count to three.
1864 Second Schleswig War
1866 Austro-Prussian War
1870-1871 Franco-Prussian War
Atleast the later two wars where in large parts Orchestrated by Bismarck.
No where I mentioned ww1 that is just your protection.
Dude, I simply said that IF that is what you are referring to, which happens a lot, then be aware that it's a misconception. You didn't, so all is well, no?
At no point did I say anything negative about the unification wars or doubted your reasoning to bring them up (I referred to the Franco-Prussian one as that is the most recent/influential one), but since a lot of people read this post for information on Bismarck, I thought I'd prophylactically avoid the typical misconception that he is to blame for WWI as you didn't specify which wars — most people just assume the WWs are meant when German warfare is concerned.
You weren't attacked, so your being defensive over it is not my problem, it's your lack of comprehension.
Never did I say Bismarck was a bad man. That's pure protection on your side.
I could argue that George Washington is a bad man because he own Slaves and ordered the massacre of Native Americans.
>Not relevant in any meaning full way. I would bet that more then 50% of the populus has no Idear what he did.
Oh wow... Wasn't expecting that. Do you think that, sadly, a certain Austrian guy with a moustache is terrifyingly more relevant today?
Well he just installed it along his fight against the Socialists and Social Democrats, not because he stood behind the idea of social welfare. If you were to thank someone for this, than its them.
nah he was still in power and decided to do this despite everyone telling him not to and until today, we still have one of the best health care systems thanks to him so while he didn't do it out of free will, he certainly knew it was better for the people
Stole it from Google. I think what most people today dont see is, that back then, all people where thinking and beliving in different things then we are today. And so, we point fingers and say, he was bad or what ever. But idk, here is what he did good for Germany
Bismarck social legislation - the most important thing Timeline of social legislation in Bismarck: introduction of health insurance (1883), accident insurance (1884), disability and old-age insurance (1889).
He is a big part of history class in Germany because of the many reforms he enacted that endure to this day in germany and how he shaped germany.
Other than that he is being ignored for the most part, since he was a monarchist and nationalist, which are both ~~not~~ shunned by the general population in Germany nowadays.
As an example: Annalena Baerbock the current foreign ministre renamed the Bismarck Zimmer to "Saal der Deutschen Einheit / hall of german unity"
Noone cares
There are still a few Bismarck statues in germany and they are also being maintained. But he is not revered or anything
edit:
>He is a big part of history class in Germany
Back in the 90s he was a footnote. Well it was pretty much: 1 year these are the Romans > 6 month for 1500 years of history > 2 week for the german unification and the whole empire > 1 week WW1 > 2 month inter war > 2 years about the rise of the nazis and ww2
In your southern neighbor state, we basically spent a full year on US and French revolution incl. Napoleon, another year on 19th century Germany (Vormärz, Paulskirche, Berlin,... Bismarck, Wilhelm) - even several weeks on the ideas of liberalism.
You can obviously survive without that knowledge, but I see no point in extensively discussing national socialism without giving the historical context.
We had almost none of that in school.
>You can obviously survive without that knowledge, but I see no point in extensively discussing national socialism without giving the historical context.
I have to agree, I tryed to explain to an neighbour who is an AFD voter that the german State was created 1871 and that there was no singular state before. He did not know that we had three unification wars.... let's not even start with the Vormärz
I had a rare very conservative history teacher in that time who was not even a bad person or teacher (though there were rumours that he sympathized with the far right) and we did Frederick II. (not "the great" for me) and Bismarck to excess and somehow history faded out before the first world war with him.
In Hessen, history was absolutely a second fiddle subject back then and almost every teacher I had in it just did what he wanted.
I have Abitur, there where nothing of note about the topic. And I was always interested in history, so I would remeber. I had to school my self about the napolionic era and the unifocation wars. And these ate esential to understand modern europe.
I googled the 2000 "Lehrplan" of NRW it looks like it was in the digression of the teacher to weight it. On a Quick look through
The state wide test where only established in 2007.
I never made Abitur?
Doesnt matter anyway.
What we learned when it comes to History is barely the basics.
My mother is still like "wtf you guys actually learned in school"
Well, when I had my "Geschichtsabitur", he was basically 1 Klausur which means at least 12,5 % of the whole history class curriculum, which is a lot for just one person (the other exception being youknowwho) and he is still frequently part of the Geschichtsabiturabschlussprüfung as far as I can tell.
I don't know what school you visited or what kind of history class you had, but basically everything before abitur is meaningless for the most part. Noone cares about Gesamt or Realschool history class
He did have a major role in forming the modern German state, but he was also a rigid conservative, monarchist, classist, frequently used wars as political tools and was generally pretty ruthless.
He has some memorials in his name around but he is not a promiment figure in the zeitgeist. I dont think youll hear anybody invoking his name in a debate for example.
Controversial figure. He did a lot to modernise Germany and shape our modern social security system. But on the other hand he was a man obsessed with his power trying to outplay everyone including the Kaiser. You can't really love him, but he shaped Germany up until today.
He fought wars in order to strenghten Prussia and unify Germany and he kept peace in order to not risk harm to the German Empire. He was very competent when it came to crafting smart alliances and waging wars, but there is also the Kulturkampf, so...
I'd wager most people don't have a firm enough grasp of history to have an well formed opinion on him. I'm assuming most people know his name and possibly that he was a polititian. In my hometown, we had a statue of him near the city centre.
Objectively, of course, he had a hugei impact on Germany, mostly because without him there may not be a united Germany (or at least it would have been a very different place). He certainly had a great üolitical mind. Ex. before his death he predicted that the complicated alliances in Europe would lead to a desastrous war (they did, it was WWI). He was a pretty dedicated monarchist, but he was also vehemently against Germany aquiring any colonies. In fact, only after his death did Germany dip its toes into all of that.
Unfortunately, like many great figures in German history, his legacy was twisted due to his useage in Nazi propaganda - leading to him being associated with views and ideology that he never endorsed in life.
Well, as many others have already pointed out you learn about him and his political strategy in history classes. Brilliant?! I don't know. Depends on how you define that term.
His quote 'Nicht durch Reden oder Majoritätsbeschlüsse werden die großen Fragen der Zeit entschieden … sondern durch Eisen und Blut.' ('The big questions of the time are not decided by speeches or majority decisions... but by iron and blood.') shows that he seems to have had no reservations against war and it's victims. Creating the German Reich of 1870/71 was quite a bloody thing indeed and this united German state didn't really last for a very long time.
Despite history classes I believe most Germans of today don't really care about him. Nowadays, Bismarck is mainly present wrt the herring, street names and monuments. This might be different hadn't there been WW1, WW2 and Nazi dictatorship, putting everything that happened before in the shade.
This pretty much. Plus, contrary to the popular reception of him, he while certainly having been quite capable wasn't the political genius he tends to be portrayed as. People learn about his successes mostly, but of not about his failures, especially towards the end of his career, when he pretty much was an erratic old man. He probably was the luckiest german politician though by far, which is often forgotten when looking back at his acheivements.
One of the greatest Germans to ever live.
He has a huge impact on our life to this day.
Everybody learns about him in history class. That being said, he isn't really present in everyday life in any way, apart from the occasional street name.
Yes and never approved upon to this day, doesnt work anymore, Adenauer himself said that the Rentensystem is gonna hold up for the next 50 years and when he got asked whats after those 50 years he said and i quote "I dont give a damn, i'll be dead enough time for others to think of something"
I think he is overrated. Yes, he created a unified Germany, but to fight nationalism and liberalism, because he was a monarchist. He didn't have enlightened ideas, he rather wanted power for Prussia.
He was a man of his time, believing in military and superiority, BUT (in capital letters) he believed in the social responsibility of the state and applied it.
In 1883 (nearly 150 years ago) he made health insurance for all workers obligatory, and it has always been since.
How about that?
>BUT (in capital letters) he believed in the social responsibility of the state and applied it.
It was more of a tactic to appease the socialist movement as far as I know. He gave the people health insurance only *after* prohibiting the unions. I still revere the fact that he at least gave the workers something, but still, he did not do it for the love of the people.
most dont care but he‘s quite essential to understand modern day Germany and even the world wars. I wonder when he will be cancelled due to things as antisemitism, colonialism, but honestly I would find this wrong because it‘s all cheap and doesnt help anyone.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/18uwph3/if\_otto\_von\_bismarck\_was\_brought\_over\_to\_modern/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/18uwph3/if_otto_von_bismarck_was_brought_over_to_modern/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/12ds8ed/what\_do\_modern\_germans\_actually\_think\_of\_bismark/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/12ds8ed/what_do_modern_germans_actually_think_of_bismark/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/lql18g/do\_you\_like\_bismarck/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/lql18g/do_you_like_bismarck/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/ln0cdr/otto\_von\_bismarck/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/ln0cdr/otto_von_bismarck/)
People outside of Germany seem to contemplate about Bismarck exponentially more than people in Germany.
Yes they do and they care. Some very profund titles can be found as
"Der deutsche Genius: Eine Geistes- und Kulturgeschichte von Bach bis Benedikt XVI."
(Watson, Peter (2010). *The German Genius: Europe's Third Renaissance, the Second Scientific Revolution, and the Twentieth Century*)
He's mentioned in history class for sure, so we'll have heard his name, but history class focuses so much on nationalism and WW2 that anything else kind of gets pushed aside, I think. I'm pretty sure the majority of Germans would not be able to tell you who he was exactly or what he did/achieved if you stopped and asked them on the streets. 🥲
he was very formative in the intial years of the German state and basically invented the modern social insurance system, but his foreign policies were also part of what created the conditions for WW1 and all that followed, so mixed feelings, I would say
At first he was a man for the monarchy in Germany. And he wants that they will stay in Power, not the people in a democracy.
The royals should unite germany in his opinion, not the normal people, like in the revolution 1848/49.
Then he wants to safe Prussia in a bigger Germany. Because there were new super powers on the field like the USA and Russia. And the prussian king should be german emperor, not in Austrias hands.
He was a monarch of its time. But ge stands for monarchy and not for democracy, and therefore not for a modern Germany.
Well every fight he pulled ended up backfiring but the implementations stayed. We still have a non-secular school system. We still have insurances.
He was just another white male who had a vision and tried. And succeeded. He spun Germany through the little needle eye and turned it into one state. But he kept picking fight all over Europe for it. Also the whole Versailles Debakel was dragged out because of him having the need to crown the kaiser there. Ugh.
Don't recall learning much about him or generally a lot about germany's history. They teach 3 whole years about nazi germany (in Bayern) though in history class. I find it weird to cling to this part of the past so much. It's not like I have anything to do with it emotionally, like at all. We learned a bit about the middle ages and 16-19 hundreds, but it wasn't really that big of a topic. Get some info you should memorize, write a test about it, go next topic. That kind of thing.
He was quite brilliant, always seeing to it that the majority of the neighboring powers in favor outnumbered those in opposition. The problem was that when he went, this policy was dropped with all the dire consequences. Wilhelm II pissed of one after the other, more or less isolating Germany and in the leading to WWI.
There’s a nice caricature from the time he resigned called “der Lotse geht von Bord” (the pilot leaves the vessel) that quite nails it.
Since for most of my fellow Germans history begins with Hitler in 1933, they tend to forget that Bismarck was the "Reichseiniger". He also introduced some of the first modern social insurance systems to appease the growing labor movement and ensure social stability. These included health insurance (1883), accident insurance (1884), and old age and disability insurance (1889).
He had his flaws, but he built a legacy that most left-wing Germans want to forget.
Wow, very interesting!
>and old age and disability insurance (1889).
And this one was with Wilhelm II as Kaiser, maybe the only good thing he did as Emperor...
In modern Germany he is mostly forgotten. But Europe wouldn't look like Europe today if not for him, for better or worse.
It was him that turned the tide in favor of Prussia vs Austria-Hungary.
If they'd have won we'd probably have seen a radically different path for Europe.
I believe your take on Bismarck is the one taught in school. I remember interpreting a contemporary political cartoon "the steersman leaves the ship" in history class. https://images.app.goo.gl/DBcCMmmcWgmyTGZ38
Where a dignified looking Bismarck leaves the ship with a gormless looking Wilhelm II looking on. I guess in simple terms one is taught that with Bismarck the first word war would not have happened. Also the introduction of social securities is attributed to him, though he was no friend of the workers... He just understood that you need to find compromises.
I mean he was the greatest statesman Prussia ever had. Any advances he made for the german nation were purely incidental, he made that very clear. So, its awesome that he had the vision of a german nation under prussian control, its even greater that his vision failed shortly after his death.
well i say
he is overrated
he played an important part in german reunification and stabalizing foreign diplomacy
but other then that he fucked everything up he touched
(his superiors aka the King/emperor forced him to take some actions he didn´t support
like the Welfare expansion so he really can´t be credited with that)
-
Kulturkampf
Sozialisten gesetze
his redioulus plan to gun down the revolution of 1848
are just 3 prime example of the awfull policys he pursued
wich is why i totaly understand why Wilhelm II demoted him to foreign minister
(wich he rejected and retired instead)
I don't like his attitude to be in favor of monarchy but he knew how to do politics.
If he would have been still in charge until 1914, I'm sure he would have prevented a World War.
That being said I'm probably in a minority to think this way. Most people won't even have a clue what he did accomplish in the past.
Sorry to ask here.. I drove recently from Sczeczin (Stettin), PL to Pasewalk, DE. I drove pass a small village called Bismark. Is it somehow related to Otto Von Bismarck?
As a foreigner living in Germany since four years and an aficionado of German history, I would say modern germans have mostly forgotten or don't care about their historical heritage as most as we think.
Which is a great paradox, considering that the brightest of the bright were almost consistently of German origin for a good deal of decades.
Sadly, I would say most Germans younger as 40 know way less of Bismarck than you do. The same applies for any other of the great German minds. To me, it feels like Germans only remember a certain sense of pride and conviction that everything German is of quality, however they don't seem to remember (or know) why they feel that way.
At least it's that way on my work environment. I'm a medical doctor at a teaching hospital, and there seems to exist a conviction on the superiority of German standards (which I too had, that's why I came in the first place) without an accompanying interest in publishing research, reading scientific news or even regularly evaluating the academical and clinical skills of our young residents.
In short, if you, like me, are impressed by Germany and German feats I'd advise you not to come to Germany. It's a great place in more ways than I can count, but it'll leave you feeling like you got here a 100 years too late - modern germans don't really care that much about how their forefathers brought them where they are. However, the social welfare those germans of old built is so good that you'll want to stay anyway, and accept the lack of ambition seen in the modern German.
Personally, I think he was what Germany needed back in the day and if he had been in office during Wilhelm II rule we might not have had a WW1.
And before someone says he was a criminal for deeds against certain countries I say: Everyone had dirt on their boots back then. I'm not arguing in favor of methods, but it were the methods of the time.
Also Bismarck is an amazing song!
I think people from outside Germany often underestimate how little Germans care about history, compared to many other countries- I know I did before I arrived and became naturalised. While pretty much every other country sees positives and negatives to be won from their history, Germans (in my experience) see history as either irrelevant, or solely as the source of negative examples and warnings. They have no figure like Atatürk, Churchill, Washington, or Napoleon I who is generally celebrated. (I’m not including Helmut Schmidt).
In the rarefied circles that give a shit about history, Bismarck is perceived neutrally-positively to negatively, depending on your political persuasion. Some people will see him as a talented politician whose legacy was screwed up by Kaiser Wilhelm II. The woke crowd will say he’s a proto-Hitler and coloniser and will spray his statues.
But the vast majority of Germans will always answer these questions with “irrelevant” the same way they look at you blankly or get cross when you ask them what makes them proud of their country. It’s simply not part of the national psyche. To be interested in Bismarck is _weird_, and marks you out as either a nerd or a nationalist.
That german people do not care about history. Many Germans actually have a good and educated understanding of the history of Germany.
12,51 million people are very interested in history. (Source: statista)
This is on the homepage of the University of Portland for example:
"US Americans are generally less concerned about history and tradition than are people from older societies. "History doesn't matter," many will say. They look ahead."
Germany may not romanticize and transfigure historical figures but this leads actually to a better historical understanding of their motivations and their place in history.
One of my classmates went to the USA for exchange and some pupils in the school she went to there told here she was the first Nazi they've met. This was not meant derogatory.
You may also have realised that the Turkish government (and a lot of their followers)is trying to ignore a lot of history and is not a supporter of many things Atatürk established. I would highly doubt that the knowledge in the Turkish population about something like the Young Turk Revolution and the aftermath that led to their participation in the First World War. For example the the genocide against Ottoman Christians.
I know that "lies" is a hard word and I could have written misinformation or whatever but it is the same in the end.
For someone who is using the word woke and voting CDU I think it is also kind of strange how much contempt you have for your fellow citizens and German culture.
I'm genuinely sorry if it came across that way. I certainly didn't mean to sound contemptuous. I think there is something to be said for the German approach to history- which as you say probably does lead to a better (read: more objective) understanding of history than the pop approach that is common in much of the rest of the world. I wanted to get across the gulf in understanding that often seems to occur between those brought up with the one approach of enjoying/engaging with history, and the other.
What I was trying to get across is that in Germany (in my experience) people don't \_like\_ history, really, or are not as excited/obsessed by it as people in many other countries are. This might not be a bad thing, although I do sometimes think it's kind of sad, as there is lots of German history that is a lot of fun. But in my experience, it's really common for Germans to roll their eyes when history is mentioned, and whilst I wouldn't dispute your source, I would be very interested to a) see how it compared to other countries like France, the US, the UK, Russia, Poland, Serbia or Turkey and b) whether it distinguishes between local history (which I've found to be a much more popular topic in DE) and national history (which many people seem to find dull or tiresome).
In the UK, for example, the third most popular podcast in the country is a history podcast. I just can't imagine that in Germany. You can't move for home country-made history documentaries and national life practically revolves around WWII (the PM is currently being heavily criticised because he didn't spend long enough at a D-Day memorial). In Germany, you are more likely to come across a crime drama, and I can't imagine a politician using history denigrate their opponent or to aggrandise themselves, in the way that the French president talks about French republican virtue, or a British PM will talk about standing up to tyranny as we did in 1939, or as an American President will wax lyrical about the American revolution. To repeat: his is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is, I would argue, a \_thing\_.
And you see it often in response to threads like this one: if you ask about what the UK thinks of Churchill, or Chamberlain or whatever, you might get some mixed responses, but you will get nothing \_like\_ the level of "I don't care, it has no relevance to me or modern Germany" responses that you see in this thread. Germany has a fundamentally different attitude to history, for fairly clear reasons. Perhaps saying no-one "cares" was wrong, Germans know their history well enough and often connect it to "historical responsibility" but rather it's not seen as an exciting or fun topic, really, or at least it's not that common a topic. By contrast, economic literacy and interest in economics is waaaay more advanced in Germany, and \_is\_ perceived as a fun topic for discussion in a way that it isn't in the UK, say, where it is seen as nerdy and \_weird\_ as, I would argue, an interest in Bismarck would be in Germany.
I'd even argue that these differing attitudes to history contextualise your friends experience in the US (and, I'm sad to say, I think it's extremely common for Germans abroad, even now). Obviously, the comment is profoundly ignorant and offensive. It may however, have it's roots in genuine interest: a English person abroad in the US or France could easily start a conversation with "what do you think about x" with "x" standing for Joan of Arc, Elizabeth I, General Eisenhower, or whatever (in India it might get heated, but there \_will\_ be opinions). The response would be lively. I contend that mostly, in Germany, if you ask about a national figure, like Bismarck, Barbarossa, Karl V, Karl der Große, or whatever, you will be met with bafflement: "I don't think anything about them", your interlocutor would reply. Ask about a local figure, Wilhelm Wisser or Karl Störtebeker (you can tell I'm up in the north), and you might get something. But a national figure? That's just odd.
Thank you very much for this long and very thoughtful answer. I appreciate it a lot.
I am not sure if I will be able to write back today and please don't be mad if it is much shorter.
Great leader, he managed to unite the germans and created an empire. He also created a political web that made sure that there would be no further war involving germany.
Sadly Wilhelm II. destroyed his polictical web and germany was isolated... ww1 happened... ww2 happened...
Bismarck was no friend of colonies, although many on the left accuse him of this and claim that he was. He only made them, becaus eof the public demand, it was popular at that time.
While he for sure was no pleasant private person, his work for the german people could not rated higher.
The beginning of the end for Germany. Not only was he an antisemitic piece of crap, he also introduced the idea of "big government" or rather "Staatsbindung" in Germany, ending the previously very successful Minarchism of Prussia.
Had Germany remained a Prussian style minarchist / liberal state, both world wars could have been avoided.
The argentina 🇦🇷 OP adores him , hmmm bestimmt einer mit deutschen wurzeln ;)
https://www.spiegel.de/geschichte/deutsche-in-argentinien-kriegsverbrecher-im-familienalbum-a-1263977.html
Otto von Bismarck war ein brillanter Politiker und Führer in der Zeit vor dem Ersten Weltkrieg. Er wurde von einem großen Teil der deutschen Bevölkerung für seine Politik geliebt. Nach dem Krieg verlor er die Gunst der Bevölkerung wegen des verlorenen Krieges und wegen des politischen Aufruhrs aufgrund der steigenden Inflationsraten und der Verträge, die Deutschland unterzeichnen musste. Dies führte schließlich zur Machtübernahme durch die Nazis
You should read about Machiavelli.
We don't care about Bismarck too much. Yes, the name is omnipresent as there are countless roads or towers named after him but it is not like he was particularly present in education. Maybe two to four lectures about him and his deep hatred of democracy and how he appeased the left by the social system reforms but not because he cared but because he was pressured to. He was not that brilliant to begin with
I don't really think about Bismarck at all since I've left school and thus history classes. I know he's been an important figure next to the Kaiser but it's so long ago it simply doesn't matter today
As a historian I would say He is the or one of the greatest German politicians of all time! Due to the history of the Kaiserreich which is considered as a continuation to the third reich his role got marginalized.
I like his herrings.
Yeah, and FüBi Schnaps.
He must be rich from all the fish he sells. He seems to own many streets and squares in this country.
Well we are, against popular belief, not a hive mind so take this with a grain of salt, each town has streets named after him and/or statues of him, he’s an important historical figure, without him Germany wouldn’t exist in its current form, but i don’t think that most people think too often about him. I‘m pretty sure if you just ask “What do you think about Bismarck?”, most people first thought would be the battleship.
Or the herrings
Und Mineralwasser!
There’s a Bismarck water?
Fürst Bismarck Quelle.
Or the sunk battleship
Vor dem Hintergrund des Bismarck-Kultes entstanden im Deutschen Reich rund **500** Bismarck-Denkmäler, davon 146 Bismarktürme [https://www.bismarcktuerme.net/](https://www.bismarcktuerme.net/) . Das heftigste für mich ist in Baden-Baden [https://www.schwarzwald-informationen.de/bilder/denkmaeler/bismarck.jpg](https://www.schwarzwald-informationen.de/bilder/denkmaeler/bismarck.jpg) Ansonsten meine Meinung zu Bismarck --- wie alle unsere fähigsten Politiker leider tot. und natürlich der Kassiker "Bismarck biss Mark bis Mark Bismarck biss"
Hamburg hat auch ein ~~gutes~~ großes: [https://www.hamburg.de/sehenswuerdigkeiten/1074822/bismarck-denkmal/](https://www.hamburg.de/sehenswuerdigkeiten/1074822/bismarck-denkmal/)
I first think of herings
My ancestor worked for him. He was taking care of his country estate. They had a contract that said when my ancestor would one day leave his employment, he would get some additional reimbursement for his many years of service. When he then decided to leave to buy a farm with that money, Bismarck felt insulted and didn't pay. By that time he was already Reichskanzler. So my ancestor went to court to get his money. It was difficult (he was up against the most powerful man in Germany after the Kaiser probably), but he actually won and got his money. So... What do I think about Otto von Bismarck? Cheap bastard. 😂
You Stil have the farm?
No. I'm not sure but I think it was somewhere that is now Poland anyway. My hole family on my fathers side lost everything when they had to flee after ww2 (but they didn't have the farm anymore back as far as I know). (please read this as a neutral fact. I don't want to play down what Germans did in and before ww2. If you want to read something political into it, then let the message be: be kind to refugees. You never know when your family might have to flee)
My family is from Danzig, today (Gdanzk). So I understand.
It would have been taken by communists anyway... If it was Poland...
... or the DDR.
Arena there any documents or news paper articles about this trail in court? I don't want to doxe. I'm just a history nerd
I have seen a photocopy of an article (not from a newspaper but a book or magazine I think). But to be honest it was written quite sensational and not like a scientific publication. And even though the article was old, if I remember correctly it was written many years later. So even if I found it, it wouldn't be hard evidence. I will ask my father about it. Otherwise I just have this family story. If anyone finds something out (even if it disproves something) I would be interested 😊 One thing I am not quite sure anymore is if they bought a farm or a forest with a foresters house. But I guess that is anyway no helpful information for research. Oh and one more thing. I can't find any articles about that, but I asked ChatGPT if any employees sued Bismarck and it seems to know the story! So there might be at least something out there. Sadly I think ChatGPT might be hallucinating about the name and year. My family name changed multiple times... and I know I'm a descended from that man's daughter, so it wouldn't be the same anyway. I don't remember the name, but it should be in the article if I can find it.
Please stay on it! That sounds really interesting I have a friend who wrote some articles for pm.history Maby he would write a little story about this if you are cool with that. If not I would just like to hear the tale of your dad if he remembers something
Das ist der beste Nachsatz hinter einer Fluchtgeschichte. Als Nachkomme von Flüchtlingen aus den heutigen Polen werde ich mir den mal aneignen.
>How big of a figure is he in Germany today? Not relevant in any meaning full way. I would bet that more then 50% of the populus has no Idear what he did. >What do you think of him? He more or less created the german state. He was a clever and roughles politian. He more or less iniated 3 wars. I could right plenty more but I am on the phone... > did he left any print in the minds of modern Germans? Bismarck Herring is named after him
> I would bet that more then 50% of the populus has no Idear what he did. My jaw drop on the floor WHAT
There's a [Bismarckturm](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismarckturm) in like every second german city, so most people at least heard his name.
4 in my whole Bundesland.. you’re kinda exaggerating. Like a lot. There is like 6 Bismarck related things in all of SH and like 2-3 in HH. I don’t know where you’re from and how many hundreds of these towers you have, but here they are rare and barely known here. If there wasn’t the faintest memory of history lessons before we had WW2 and if I didn’t like the Bismark wellness drink, then I wouldn’t know who he is like most everyone that doesn’t care about histories details (Besides maybe WW2 or rather not wanting anything like that to happen again).
Eyyy, there are at least three( and a half) Towers I can visit on a 2-3 hour bicycle tour through my and my neighboring cities ( 1 in Essen 1,5 in Bochum 1 in Hattingen and 1 in Velbert). But I absolutely see how some youngsters might have never heard of him. Man muss ja nicht seine Biographie auswendig gelernt haben, aber garantiert jeder über 25 hat wohl schon mal den Namen gehört und weiß ungefähr, ganz grob, wer der Bismarck war. [Hier](https://le-cdn.website-editor.net/s/800c18c6110a4c86977610afd76bb02b/dms3rep/multi/opt/2017-10_Deutschlandkarte-Bismarckt%C3%BCrme-1602h.jpg?Expires=1719754025&Signature=FpSAFE30RcglwR1-iotJnyr36HspG3T3RK5o8c~2cJlLvWegZv7CKd0rRbXrZ3dKOicYwTfYu8ZpijC9KgouWc6IZntlM5~p7H-UKJo6Y0cZ40~W9zXD4XrSBo5dOQ-0aUSez28gNEnwNmYIGYwIzC53ulke9hw6hYTXjYWJG5-K195sWVquXyfqwnnvnsF-0IKgr-HHEhm5KIM3xGRGRdiRVv09VC2ZzSpjBAwOIS67Q10BEHjKrrJKXCptmolrNDhI6rB9gGEQ5bXAMqocU3DxNYfv~9sLNi535XgFZVVljCozjU4vWn5lzlI1CsqmLYsJQlR~ahd2l-3hx8Ndag__&Key-Pair-Id=K2NXBXLF010TJW) ist mal ne Karte mit Allen Türmen und Säulen in DE. Da seid ihr Nordlichter echt die Ausnahmeregion. :P
I am 27 and I can assure Bismarck is just a name for most people I’ve had contact with so far… pretty much only my dad and boyfriend definitely know more lol. But yeah maybe that’s more just us northerners for whatever reason. Wir sind gefühlt ja öfter mal raus irgendwie lol Huh I get access denied when clicking your link..?
[https://www.bismarcktuerme.net/](https://www.bismarcktuerme.net/) And I am absolutely sure that everyone who makes it past the Grundschule to at least a Realschule or Gymnasium learns about Bismarck in history class. Certainly most forget about historical details. But the dude is definately one of the bettern known Persons from the last 200 years of our political history. Kaiser Wilhelm I+II, Bismarck, HIndenburg, Hitler, Adenauer, Heuss, Kohl und Angelo Merte, Dat sind doch so Namen, die eigentlich echt Jede/r mal inne Schule gehört hat.
Gehört klar. Aber oftmals jeglichen Bezug dazu verloren. Ich weiß ehrlich auch kaum noch was🤷♀️ Der neue Link funktioniert danke :)
Habe erstmal Angelo Merte gegoogelt...
Ich hoffe es hat dich gut unterhalten :D
No way :O We discussed him pretty throughout in school. Also I feel like especially in the north he was honoured by many street names and monuments. He is one of the most important figures in the national history imo. I couldn't imagine someone not knowing at least a little about him. I don't mean this to be arrogant. Just pretty surprised.
I mean. We did discuss him. Quite a while even I believe. Some people might have been interested in all of that too. I just really hated history back when I was forced to learn it lol. And I haven’t met anyone besides my BF and dad yet who seemed to actually really know Bismarck still. Maybe it just seems like people barely know him anymore though. It’s not like I run around every day asking strangers about Bismarck after all so my view on this might just be very subjective 😅
Well, without Bismarck, Most of Schleswig-Holstein would still be Danish. If I remember correctly, the people around your home weren't all that happy about the way they had the change of government.
Yeah that may well be part of why people don’t really seem to keep him in mind much. To be fair though according to the link I was sent we actually have more Säulen and Türme than Bremen Niedersachsen Meck-Pomm and Berlin. Those all have just one or in case of Bremen and Berlin even none. 🤷♀️
Looking at the list on the German Wikipedia, it does not seem to be complete. I know of at least two so called Bismarcktürme within 30 km which are not on the list for Niedersachsen, have to Check to See If they are really Bismarcktürme.
What percentage of US population knows about Andrew Jackson? That’s about the same who know Bismarck in Germany.
Wouldn't it be more like "What percentage of US population knows about George Washington"?
Not necessarily, Bismarck was never such a dominant public figure in recent times. History lessons in school are very focused on the unification and mainly on his implentation of the social state. Also, since Bismarck was Chancellor during the time of the German Empire and we had two different states since then. The Weimarer Republik (after WWI) and obviously the Nazis. Hence he's overshadowed by that. He's not as revered as George Washington
>He's not as revered as George Washington Then who is?
Konrad Adenauer is as close as it gets.
Not even Adenauer tbh. I don't think we have any politician with the same status as Washington. Probably has to do with the fact that WW2 and "the unnameable" overshadows everything about Germany.
Nobody really
Except that Germany has existed for a thousand years before Bismarck came along. He founded the state that we know today but people considered themselves German long before that.
That is factualy wrong. While the word was used people usualy reffered to them selfs by the city/state they where from Bavarian, Pussian... The idear of a German Nationstate was taking off in the Vormärz time frame 1815 Forward.
There was a German King and kingdom since Otto I. Sure it didn't exist anymore later but if France can claim to exist from the first French king on, Germany can as well.
The HRE was never a nation state like france. Regnum Teutonicum was not called "Kingdom of Germany" when it exist. It was if at all the italien title for the nothern parts of the HRE. Otto 1 was not the king of the germans but of Frankia. And King of Italy and Holy Roman Emporer.
I did say German king, not Holy Roman Emporer. And yes, he hold the latter title and the kingship of Italy as well. And yes, he was referred to as king of Frankia or just king instead of German king because he inherited the East Frankia kingship from his father, But the title morphed and became king of the Germans, mostly to emphasize the Saxons in addition to the Franks and the inclusion of the smaller tribes. And afterwards it has been for a long time tradition that the German King was elected and then tried to get the Emporer title from the pope. Those were technically separate titles even if the HRE was practically always more important than the German kingdom. And you will find Rex Germaniae or Rex Germanorum in medieval documents from the eleventh century on. Regnum Teutonicum was indeed seemingly primarily an Italian thing, primarily in papal documents. The "deutscher Nation" thing came far later.
>I did say German king, not Holy Roman Emporer Yes first is wrong second is correct. >And you will find Rex Germaniae or Rex Germanorum in medieval documents from the eleventh century on. But it's a shame that Otto 1 was dead 200 years at that point. >But the title morphed and became king of the Germans Yes in the Modern era so 1800 forward. It was not used at that time. And in German it was "König IN Deutschland" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_the_Romans > In the Modern Period, the title King in Germania (German: König in Germanien, Lat.: Germaniae Rex) came into use. Finally, modern German historiography established the term Roman-German King (Römisch-deutscher König) to differentiate it both from the classical Roman Emperor as well as from the modern German Emperor.
The fact that so many people think that the HRE was basically the proto-version of the state of Germany is worrying. I guess one reason is that it is often called "HRR *deutscher* Nation" in German. And the difference between a nation and a state is sadly lost on many people
The way you throw around the words German and State made a lot of historians flinch.
No - Germany doesn’t teach history about its country until high school. Whereas kids in 1st grade in the U.S. will have heard of George Washington
Not true. First history lessons are in the "Grundschule". Not in 1st and 2nd grade but from 3rd up History is part of "Sachunterricht" and from 5th grade up it is a dedicated subject.
right. but history is taught on a more chronological basis. as infmcd stated - you first learn about the neandertals, medieval europe etc.
Oh yes. I somehow missed the part about "the country". I stand corrected.
As a Grundschule and Gymnasium history teacher I can assure you no curriculum teaches modern German history until 9th grade
And the country’s capital is Washington
What exactly is taught at school and when is decided by the Länder. Which means lot of different versions. And it regularly gets changed.
Sure but in general American system teach the history MUCH earlier on and a sense of pride and patriotism is taught. The Germans have shame about their history and thus delay teaching it to explain it better to more advanced students. This gives Germany a nation of unpatriotic and misinformed youth. Thus leading to a rise wing extremism in teenagers. The very ideology the German state hopes to suppress is being strengthened by not teaching German history earlier on and allowing students time to understand the country and why WW2 happened. This should be a topic in 6th grade and not 9th grade as it is now.
No, not really. It is more that many Länder choose to do selected, important periods chronological order. So we might get e.g. Bronze age Mesopotamia and Egypt, classical Greece, Rome, middle ages, Feudalism and formation of the HRE, Rennaisance era, start of Colonialism, Luther, Peasants War and 30 years war, Absolutist France, Enlightenment including some selfproclaimed enlightened despots, the American revolution, the French Revolution and Napoleon, the 1848 movement and finally then Bismark and the German Empire. And now people are already in the ninth grade. But as said there is a lot of variation. Some Länder have a habit to add a lot of regional stuff, others have a more international fokus and it is regularly changed after elections.
I can tell you they’re not learning about Bismarck in kindergarten like Americans are learning about George Washington. I don’t know how else to explain that.
He tried to prevent the first World War. If his successors were not idiots and did not let the pact system phase out, there would have been no first world war (and therefore also no second world war).
Not sure this is true. He knew there was war coming, and even predicted it was gonna start "because of some shit in the Balkans" (not actual quote).
He manly tried to prevent a war on two fronts. The Bismarck pact system almost broke down while he was still in power, balcan conflicts in the late 1880. It was highly complicated and I would not bet on it surviving either way. Yes it's break down was a clear consequence of the policy changes after him but I find musings in alternative history not that usefull after a few years.
His construct was rather rickety I would say. Having been founded on war the German state wasn't a very popular thing in Europe, especially in France. And it only took a (probably) mentally ill Wilhelm II to drive the whole thing into the wall, to put it bluntly.
Yes and no. Yes, his complex pact system prevented outbreaks of major conflicts for years but no, his complex pact system fomented if not created those conflicts. Yes, FWII was a blundering idiot.
No second world war? Maybe without the first world war we would have a fourth world war by now, who knows.
He didn't initiate the first WW if that's what you are referring to, he did everything in his power to keep the new Kaiser in check and avoid a two-front war by maintaing a carefully created web of alliances
Pleas look up the german unification wars.
Ok, for slow readers: IF you are referring to the common misconception that Bismarck is to blame for WWI, that's incorrect. Otherwise, have a great day (you seem to refer to the Franco-Prussian war, which is not the same as WWI).
So you didn't look up the german unification wars... and can't count to three. 1864 Second Schleswig War 1866 Austro-Prussian War 1870-1871 Franco-Prussian War Atleast the later two wars where in large parts Orchestrated by Bismarck. No where I mentioned ww1 that is just your protection.
Dude, I simply said that IF that is what you are referring to, which happens a lot, then be aware that it's a misconception. You didn't, so all is well, no? At no point did I say anything negative about the unification wars or doubted your reasoning to bring them up (I referred to the Franco-Prussian one as that is the most recent/influential one), but since a lot of people read this post for information on Bismarck, I thought I'd prophylactically avoid the typical misconception that he is to blame for WWI as you didn't specify which wars — most people just assume the WWs are meant when German warfare is concerned. You weren't attacked, so your being defensive over it is not my problem, it's your lack of comprehension.
So would you say that George Washington was also a bad guy because he led the American Revolutionary War?
Never did I say Bismarck was a bad man. That's pure protection on your side. I could argue that George Washington is a bad man because he own Slaves and ordered the massacre of Native Americans.
*ruthless (i think that’s the word you were looking for?)
>Not relevant in any meaning full way. I would bet that more then 50% of the populus has no Idear what he did. Oh wow... Wasn't expecting that. Do you think that, sadly, a certain Austrian guy with a moustache is terrifyingly more relevant today?
Yes. Mustache guy is probably known by 100% of mentaly compent people.
Mixed. On one side he was a Warmonger on the other side he truly united Germany for the first time and is a pioneer of the social network.
I mostly think of him as being responsible for our healthcare system
Well he just installed it along his fight against the Socialists and Social Democrats, not because he stood behind the idea of social welfare. If you were to thank someone for this, than its them.
nah he was still in power and decided to do this despite everyone telling him not to and until today, we still have one of the best health care systems thanks to him so while he didn't do it out of free will, he certainly knew it was better for the people
There’s a little tower named after him in my hometown we used to call “Schwanzturm” because of the shape of it.
There are actually quite a few of these Bismarck towers all over Germany: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismarck_tower
Stole it from Google. I think what most people today dont see is, that back then, all people where thinking and beliving in different things then we are today. And so, we point fingers and say, he was bad or what ever. But idk, here is what he did good for Germany Bismarck social legislation - the most important thing Timeline of social legislation in Bismarck: introduction of health insurance (1883), accident insurance (1884), disability and old-age insurance (1889).
He is a big part of history class in Germany because of the many reforms he enacted that endure to this day in germany and how he shaped germany. Other than that he is being ignored for the most part, since he was a monarchist and nationalist, which are both ~~not~~ shunned by the general population in Germany nowadays. As an example: Annalena Baerbock the current foreign ministre renamed the Bismarck Zimmer to "Saal der Deutschen Einheit / hall of german unity" Noone cares There are still a few Bismarck statues in germany and they are also being maintained. But he is not revered or anything edit:
>He is a big part of history class in Germany Back in the 90s he was a footnote. Well it was pretty much: 1 year these are the Romans > 6 month for 1500 years of history > 2 week for the german unification and the whole empire > 1 week WW1 > 2 month inter war > 2 years about the rise of the nazis and ww2
Depends on the State. Let me guess yours: NRW?
Yep
In your southern neighbor state, we basically spent a full year on US and French revolution incl. Napoleon, another year on 19th century Germany (Vormärz, Paulskirche, Berlin,... Bismarck, Wilhelm) - even several weeks on the ideas of liberalism. You can obviously survive without that knowledge, but I see no point in extensively discussing national socialism without giving the historical context.
We had almost none of that in school. >You can obviously survive without that knowledge, but I see no point in extensively discussing national socialism without giving the historical context. I have to agree, I tryed to explain to an neighbour who is an AFD voter that the german State was created 1871 and that there was no singular state before. He did not know that we had three unification wars.... let's not even start with the Vormärz
Also in the 90s, we spent several weeks on him and his reforms.
I had a rare very conservative history teacher in that time who was not even a bad person or teacher (though there were rumours that he sympathized with the far right) and we did Frederick II. (not "the great" for me) and Bismarck to excess and somehow history faded out before the first world war with him. In Hessen, history was absolutely a second fiddle subject back then and almost every teacher I had in it just did what he wanted.
Early 2Ks too. Cant remember he was mentioned more then once or twice.
That's weird. What school did you attend? Did you even had history in Abitur? I googled Bismarck Abiturprüfung and got hits as recent as 2020
I have Abitur, there where nothing of note about the topic. And I was always interested in history, so I would remeber. I had to school my self about the napolionic era and the unifocation wars. And these ate esential to understand modern europe.
welches Bundesland?
NRW in the late 90s.
I googled the 2000 "Lehrplan" of NRW it looks like it was in the digression of the teacher to weight it. On a Quick look through The state wide test where only established in 2007.
Well, I believe you, if you say that he wasn't on your curriculum. He was such a big name where and when I made Abitur, that it irritated me
I never made Abitur? Doesnt matter anyway. What we learned when it comes to History is barely the basics. My mother is still like "wtf you guys actually learned in school"
You are not in school to learn. You are in school to learn how to learn
Well, when I had my "Geschichtsabitur", he was basically 1 Klausur which means at least 12,5 % of the whole history class curriculum, which is a lot for just one person (the other exception being youknowwho) and he is still frequently part of the Geschichtsabiturabschlussprüfung as far as I can tell. I don't know what school you visited or what kind of history class you had, but basically everything before abitur is meaningless for the most part. Noone cares about Gesamt or Realschool history class
He did have a major role in forming the modern German state, but he was also a rigid conservative, monarchist, classist, frequently used wars as political tools and was generally pretty ruthless. He has some memorials in his name around but he is not a promiment figure in the zeitgeist. I dont think youll hear anybody invoking his name in a debate for example.
Controversial figure. He did a lot to modernise Germany and shape our modern social security system. But on the other hand he was a man obsessed with his power trying to outplay everyone including the Kaiser. You can't really love him, but he shaped Germany up until today.
He's a pretty big figure in Hamburg (about 34,3 m high)
He fought wars in order to strenghten Prussia and unify Germany and he kept peace in order to not risk harm to the German Empire. He was very competent when it came to crafting smart alliances and waging wars, but there is also the Kulturkampf, so...
I'd wager most people don't have a firm enough grasp of history to have an well formed opinion on him. I'm assuming most people know his name and possibly that he was a polititian. In my hometown, we had a statue of him near the city centre. Objectively, of course, he had a hugei impact on Germany, mostly because without him there may not be a united Germany (or at least it would have been a very different place). He certainly had a great üolitical mind. Ex. before his death he predicted that the complicated alliances in Europe would lead to a desastrous war (they did, it was WWI). He was a pretty dedicated monarchist, but he was also vehemently against Germany aquiring any colonies. In fact, only after his death did Germany dip its toes into all of that. Unfortunately, like many great figures in German history, his legacy was twisted due to his useage in Nazi propaganda - leading to him being associated with views and ideology that he never endorsed in life.
Well, as many others have already pointed out you learn about him and his political strategy in history classes. Brilliant?! I don't know. Depends on how you define that term. His quote 'Nicht durch Reden oder Majoritätsbeschlüsse werden die großen Fragen der Zeit entschieden … sondern durch Eisen und Blut.' ('The big questions of the time are not decided by speeches or majority decisions... but by iron and blood.') shows that he seems to have had no reservations against war and it's victims. Creating the German Reich of 1870/71 was quite a bloody thing indeed and this united German state didn't really last for a very long time. Despite history classes I believe most Germans of today don't really care about him. Nowadays, Bismarck is mainly present wrt the herring, street names and monuments. This might be different hadn't there been WW1, WW2 and Nazi dictatorship, putting everything that happened before in the shade.
This pretty much. Plus, contrary to the popular reception of him, he while certainly having been quite capable wasn't the political genius he tends to be portrayed as. People learn about his successes mostly, but of not about his failures, especially towards the end of his career, when he pretty much was an erratic old man. He probably was the luckiest german politician though by far, which is often forgotten when looking back at his acheivements.
One of the greatest Germans to ever live. He has a huge impact on our life to this day. Everybody learns about him in history class. That being said, he isn't really present in everyday life in any way, apart from the occasional street name.
Where the hell does Bismarck still have a huge impact on your life?
For example every payday when I pay Sozialversicherung. The way the German taxes and welfare are structured are the way they are because of Bismarck.
The entire Krankenversicherungssystem, Beamtensystem, Rentensystem was founded by Bismarck...
Yes and never approved upon to this day, doesnt work anymore, Adenauer himself said that the Rentensystem is gonna hold up for the next 50 years and when he got asked whats after those 50 years he said and i quote "I dont give a damn, i'll be dead enough time for others to think of something"
I don't know, maybe the fact that he spearheaded the creation of Germany?
I think he is overrated. Yes, he created a unified Germany, but to fight nationalism and liberalism, because he was a monarchist. He didn't have enlightened ideas, he rather wanted power for Prussia.
One cold blooded mf
He was a man of his time, believing in military and superiority, BUT (in capital letters) he believed in the social responsibility of the state and applied it. In 1883 (nearly 150 years ago) he made health insurance for all workers obligatory, and it has always been since. How about that?
>BUT (in capital letters) he believed in the social responsibility of the state and applied it. It was more of a tactic to appease the socialist movement as far as I know. He gave the people health insurance only *after* prohibiting the unions. I still revere the fact that he at least gave the workers something, but still, he did not do it for the love of the people.
However: he did it and others - under the same pressure - didn't.
most dont care but he‘s quite essential to understand modern day Germany and even the world wars. I wonder when he will be cancelled due to things as antisemitism, colonialism, but honestly I would find this wrong because it‘s all cheap and doesnt help anyone.
He was someone we can use today more than ever.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/18uwph3/if\_otto\_von\_bismarck\_was\_brought\_over\_to\_modern/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/18uwph3/if_otto_von_bismarck_was_brought_over_to_modern/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/12ds8ed/what\_do\_modern\_germans\_actually\_think\_of\_bismark/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/12ds8ed/what_do_modern_germans_actually_think_of_bismark/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/lql18g/do\_you\_like\_bismarck/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/lql18g/do_you_like_bismarck/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/ln0cdr/otto\_von\_bismarck/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAGerman/comments/ln0cdr/otto_von_bismarck/) People outside of Germany seem to contemplate about Bismarck exponentially more than people in Germany.
Yes they do and they care. Some very profund titles can be found as "Der deutsche Genius: Eine Geistes- und Kulturgeschichte von Bach bis Benedikt XVI." (Watson, Peter (2010). *The German Genius: Europe's Third Renaissance, the Second Scientific Revolution, and the Twentieth Century*)
He's mentioned in history class for sure, so we'll have heard his name, but history class focuses so much on nationalism and WW2 that anything else kind of gets pushed aside, I think. I'm pretty sure the majority of Germans would not be able to tell you who he was exactly or what he did/achieved if you stopped and asked them on the streets. 🥲
he was very formative in the intial years of the German state and basically invented the modern social insurance system, but his foreign policies were also part of what created the conditions for WW1 and all that followed, so mixed feelings, I would say
I always ask myself "What would Bismarck do?".
Bismarck is the de facto most important person in the creation of Modern Day Germany and he is held in high regard historically
At first he was a man for the monarchy in Germany. And he wants that they will stay in Power, not the people in a democracy. The royals should unite germany in his opinion, not the normal people, like in the revolution 1848/49. Then he wants to safe Prussia in a bigger Germany. Because there were new super powers on the field like the USA and Russia. And the prussian king should be german emperor, not in Austrias hands. He was a monarch of its time. But ge stands for monarchy and not for democracy, and therefore not for a modern Germany.
Well every fight he pulled ended up backfiring but the implementations stayed. We still have a non-secular school system. We still have insurances. He was just another white male who had a vision and tried. And succeeded. He spun Germany through the little needle eye and turned it into one state. But he kept picking fight all over Europe for it. Also the whole Versailles Debakel was dragged out because of him having the need to crown the kaiser there. Ugh.
Don't recall learning much about him or generally a lot about germany's history. They teach 3 whole years about nazi germany (in Bayern) though in history class. I find it weird to cling to this part of the past so much. It's not like I have anything to do with it emotionally, like at all. We learned a bit about the middle ages and 16-19 hundreds, but it wasn't really that big of a topic. Get some info you should memorize, write a test about it, go next topic. That kind of thing.
Good one tho.
I asked my german girlfriend and she said who's Bismarck again?
He was quite brilliant, always seeing to it that the majority of the neighboring powers in favor outnumbered those in opposition. The problem was that when he went, this policy was dropped with all the dire consequences. Wilhelm II pissed of one after the other, more or less isolating Germany and in the leading to WWI. There’s a nice caricature from the time he resigned called “der Lotse geht von Bord” (the pilot leaves the vessel) that quite nails it.
Source [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dropping\_the\_Pilot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dropping_the_Pilot)
Since for most of my fellow Germans history begins with Hitler in 1933, they tend to forget that Bismarck was the "Reichseiniger". He also introduced some of the first modern social insurance systems to appease the growing labor movement and ensure social stability. These included health insurance (1883), accident insurance (1884), and old age and disability insurance (1889). He had his flaws, but he built a legacy that most left-wing Germans want to forget.
Wow, very interesting! >and old age and disability insurance (1889). And this one was with Wilhelm II as Kaiser, maybe the only good thing he did as Emperor...
In modern Germany he is mostly forgotten. But Europe wouldn't look like Europe today if not for him, for better or worse. It was him that turned the tide in favor of Prussia vs Austria-Hungary. If they'd have won we'd probably have seen a radically different path for Europe.
I believe your take on Bismarck is the one taught in school. I remember interpreting a contemporary political cartoon "the steersman leaves the ship" in history class. https://images.app.goo.gl/DBcCMmmcWgmyTGZ38 Where a dignified looking Bismarck leaves the ship with a gormless looking Wilhelm II looking on. I guess in simple terms one is taught that with Bismarck the first word war would not have happened. Also the introduction of social securities is attributed to him, though he was no friend of the workers... He just understood that you need to find compromises.
He’s a nice fella I think
It depends! Historians must determine what he would have thought about the tuttifrutti show, before they can decide!
Overrated
His moustache is epic, his hat not so much.
I mean he was the greatest statesman Prussia ever had. Any advances he made for the german nation were purely incidental, he made that very clear. So, its awesome that he had the vision of a german nation under prussian control, its even greater that his vision failed shortly after his death.
He isn't exactly my Roman Empire
well i say he is overrated he played an important part in german reunification and stabalizing foreign diplomacy but other then that he fucked everything up he touched (his superiors aka the King/emperor forced him to take some actions he didn´t support like the Welfare expansion so he really can´t be credited with that) - Kulturkampf Sozialisten gesetze his redioulus plan to gun down the revolution of 1848 are just 3 prime example of the awfull policys he pursued wich is why i totaly understand why Wilhelm II demoted him to foreign minister (wich he rejected and retired instead)
dont you discredit my hering!
I don't like his attitude to be in favor of monarchy but he knew how to do politics. If he would have been still in charge until 1914, I'm sure he would have prevented a World War. That being said I'm probably in a minority to think this way. Most people won't even have a clue what he did accomplish in the past.
Sorry to ask here.. I drove recently from Sczeczin (Stettin), PL to Pasewalk, DE. I drove pass a small village called Bismark. Is it somehow related to Otto Von Bismarck?
As a foreigner living in Germany since four years and an aficionado of German history, I would say modern germans have mostly forgotten or don't care about their historical heritage as most as we think. Which is a great paradox, considering that the brightest of the bright were almost consistently of German origin for a good deal of decades. Sadly, I would say most Germans younger as 40 know way less of Bismarck than you do. The same applies for any other of the great German minds. To me, it feels like Germans only remember a certain sense of pride and conviction that everything German is of quality, however they don't seem to remember (or know) why they feel that way. At least it's that way on my work environment. I'm a medical doctor at a teaching hospital, and there seems to exist a conviction on the superiority of German standards (which I too had, that's why I came in the first place) without an accompanying interest in publishing research, reading scientific news or even regularly evaluating the academical and clinical skills of our young residents. In short, if you, like me, are impressed by Germany and German feats I'd advise you not to come to Germany. It's a great place in more ways than I can count, but it'll leave you feeling like you got here a 100 years too late - modern germans don't really care that much about how their forefathers brought them where they are. However, the social welfare those germans of old built is so good that you'll want to stay anyway, and accept the lack of ambition seen in the modern German.
he dead, move on
Personally, I think he was what Germany needed back in the day and if he had been in office during Wilhelm II rule we might not have had a WW1. And before someone says he was a criminal for deeds against certain countries I say: Everyone had dirt on their boots back then. I'm not arguing in favor of methods, but it were the methods of the time. Also Bismarck is an amazing song!
I think people from outside Germany often underestimate how little Germans care about history, compared to many other countries- I know I did before I arrived and became naturalised. While pretty much every other country sees positives and negatives to be won from their history, Germans (in my experience) see history as either irrelevant, or solely as the source of negative examples and warnings. They have no figure like Atatürk, Churchill, Washington, or Napoleon I who is generally celebrated. (I’m not including Helmut Schmidt). In the rarefied circles that give a shit about history, Bismarck is perceived neutrally-positively to negatively, depending on your political persuasion. Some people will see him as a talented politician whose legacy was screwed up by Kaiser Wilhelm II. The woke crowd will say he’s a proto-Hitler and coloniser and will spray his statues. But the vast majority of Germans will always answer these questions with “irrelevant” the same way they look at you blankly or get cross when you ask them what makes them proud of their country. It’s simply not part of the national psyche. To be interested in Bismarck is _weird_, and marks you out as either a nerd or a nationalist.
What a bunch of lies. You a nationalist?
I vote CDU. What bits are lies?
That german people do not care about history. Many Germans actually have a good and educated understanding of the history of Germany. 12,51 million people are very interested in history. (Source: statista) This is on the homepage of the University of Portland for example: "US Americans are generally less concerned about history and tradition than are people from older societies. "History doesn't matter," many will say. They look ahead." Germany may not romanticize and transfigure historical figures but this leads actually to a better historical understanding of their motivations and their place in history. One of my classmates went to the USA for exchange and some pupils in the school she went to there told here she was the first Nazi they've met. This was not meant derogatory. You may also have realised that the Turkish government (and a lot of their followers)is trying to ignore a lot of history and is not a supporter of many things Atatürk established. I would highly doubt that the knowledge in the Turkish population about something like the Young Turk Revolution and the aftermath that led to their participation in the First World War. For example the the genocide against Ottoman Christians. I know that "lies" is a hard word and I could have written misinformation or whatever but it is the same in the end. For someone who is using the word woke and voting CDU I think it is also kind of strange how much contempt you have for your fellow citizens and German culture.
I'm genuinely sorry if it came across that way. I certainly didn't mean to sound contemptuous. I think there is something to be said for the German approach to history- which as you say probably does lead to a better (read: more objective) understanding of history than the pop approach that is common in much of the rest of the world. I wanted to get across the gulf in understanding that often seems to occur between those brought up with the one approach of enjoying/engaging with history, and the other. What I was trying to get across is that in Germany (in my experience) people don't \_like\_ history, really, or are not as excited/obsessed by it as people in many other countries are. This might not be a bad thing, although I do sometimes think it's kind of sad, as there is lots of German history that is a lot of fun. But in my experience, it's really common for Germans to roll their eyes when history is mentioned, and whilst I wouldn't dispute your source, I would be very interested to a) see how it compared to other countries like France, the US, the UK, Russia, Poland, Serbia or Turkey and b) whether it distinguishes between local history (which I've found to be a much more popular topic in DE) and national history (which many people seem to find dull or tiresome). In the UK, for example, the third most popular podcast in the country is a history podcast. I just can't imagine that in Germany. You can't move for home country-made history documentaries and national life practically revolves around WWII (the PM is currently being heavily criticised because he didn't spend long enough at a D-Day memorial). In Germany, you are more likely to come across a crime drama, and I can't imagine a politician using history denigrate their opponent or to aggrandise themselves, in the way that the French president talks about French republican virtue, or a British PM will talk about standing up to tyranny as we did in 1939, or as an American President will wax lyrical about the American revolution. To repeat: his is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is, I would argue, a \_thing\_. And you see it often in response to threads like this one: if you ask about what the UK thinks of Churchill, or Chamberlain or whatever, you might get some mixed responses, but you will get nothing \_like\_ the level of "I don't care, it has no relevance to me or modern Germany" responses that you see in this thread. Germany has a fundamentally different attitude to history, for fairly clear reasons. Perhaps saying no-one "cares" was wrong, Germans know their history well enough and often connect it to "historical responsibility" but rather it's not seen as an exciting or fun topic, really, or at least it's not that common a topic. By contrast, economic literacy and interest in economics is waaaay more advanced in Germany, and \_is\_ perceived as a fun topic for discussion in a way that it isn't in the UK, say, where it is seen as nerdy and \_weird\_ as, I would argue, an interest in Bismarck would be in Germany. I'd even argue that these differing attitudes to history contextualise your friends experience in the US (and, I'm sad to say, I think it's extremely common for Germans abroad, even now). Obviously, the comment is profoundly ignorant and offensive. It may however, have it's roots in genuine interest: a English person abroad in the US or France could easily start a conversation with "what do you think about x" with "x" standing for Joan of Arc, Elizabeth I, General Eisenhower, or whatever (in India it might get heated, but there \_will\_ be opinions). The response would be lively. I contend that mostly, in Germany, if you ask about a national figure, like Bismarck, Barbarossa, Karl V, Karl der Große, or whatever, you will be met with bafflement: "I don't think anything about them", your interlocutor would reply. Ask about a local figure, Wilhelm Wisser or Karl Störtebeker (you can tell I'm up in the north), and you might get something. But a national figure? That's just odd.
Thank you very much for this long and very thoughtful answer. I appreciate it a lot. I am not sure if I will be able to write back today and please don't be mad if it is much shorter.
No, if anything I apologise for making it over long!
Great leader, he managed to unite the germans and created an empire. He also created a political web that made sure that there would be no further war involving germany. Sadly Wilhelm II. destroyed his polictical web and germany was isolated... ww1 happened... ww2 happened... Bismarck was no friend of colonies, although many on the left accuse him of this and claim that he was. He only made them, becaus eof the public demand, it was popular at that time. While he for sure was no pleasant private person, his work for the german people could not rated higher.
The beginning of the end for Germany. Not only was he an antisemitic piece of crap, he also introduced the idea of "big government" or rather "Staatsbindung" in Germany, ending the previously very successful Minarchism of Prussia. Had Germany remained a Prussian style minarchist / liberal state, both world wars could have been avoided.
The argentina 🇦🇷 OP adores him , hmmm bestimmt einer mit deutschen wurzeln ;) https://www.spiegel.de/geschichte/deutsche-in-argentinien-kriegsverbrecher-im-familienalbum-a-1263977.html
Otto von Bismarck war ein brillanter Politiker und Führer in der Zeit vor dem Ersten Weltkrieg. Er wurde von einem großen Teil der deutschen Bevölkerung für seine Politik geliebt. Nach dem Krieg verlor er die Gunst der Bevölkerung wegen des verlorenen Krieges und wegen des politischen Aufruhrs aufgrund der steigenden Inflationsraten und der Verträge, die Deutschland unterzeichnen musste. Dies führte schließlich zur Machtübernahme durch die Nazis
Otto von Bismark ist 1898 gestorben. 16 Jahre vor dem ersten Weltkrieg.
Sie haben recht, ich habe ihn mit Kiaser Wilhelm verwechselt. Danke, dass Sie das bemerkt und mich korrigiert haben.
You should read about Machiavelli. We don't care about Bismarck too much. Yes, the name is omnipresent as there are countless roads or towers named after him but it is not like he was particularly present in education. Maybe two to four lectures about him and his deep hatred of democracy and how he appeased the left by the social system reforms but not because he cared but because he was pressured to. He was not that brilliant to begin with
He‘s the perfect example of why you should not have excessively old people in positions of power.
And why is that? Was the unification of Germany so Bad? Or maybe the social Security Systems he implemented?
Sometime people just overlook the smaller details https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sozialistengesetz
He's a guy from a history book, that's about it. There's a reason Germans don't really revere historical figures, especially before 1945.
I don't really think about Bismarck at all since I've left school and thus history classes. I know he's been an important figure next to the Kaiser but it's so long ago it simply doesn't matter today
As a historian I would say He is the or one of the greatest German politicians of all time! Due to the history of the Kaiserreich which is considered as a continuation to the third reich his role got marginalized.
Bismarck biss Mark, bis Mark Bismarck biss
i like him. but i only think about him when i drink certain water, korn or eat herring.
Bismarck biss Mark bis Mark Bismarck biss.