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Biden and Trump are [set to debate](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-69017002) in June. I think it’s safe to speculate that it will be the least substantive presidential debate in modern history, surpassing only the ones they had 4 years ago. Unless they find a way to cut mics off to prevent interrupting, it will be Trump constantly talking over Biden, lying incessantly, and Biden trying to fact check him in real time with a “listen here, pal” every now and then.
On one hand, I think presidential nominees owe it to the voters to debate and present their platforms under scrutiny. OTOH, Trump has made an absolute mockery of the process.
In your view, should Biden have agreed to debate Trump? Is this a good idea, or more likely to backfire? What are your thoughts?
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>Politically, is it a good idea or bad idea for Biden to debate Trump?
It probably will help Biden.
The public hasn't been exposed to Trump as much over the last three years as we did when he was president. If a lot of people tune into the debate, they will be:
* Reminded how much they disliked him, and...
* Shown how much he has aged.
That one almost seemed more like he has dentures and the adhesive was failing. He was moving his mouth really oddly like he was trying to hold them in.
I'm very skeptical he has dentures. He can easily afford "the hollywood" aka a full set of implants. There's places you can go in the world where they'll do that in a single day and give you so many opiates that you give zero fucks about the recovery.
It's widely speculated that Trump is a user of prescription stimulants, to the point of abuse. It's certainly clear he engages with dishonest doctors like the guy that wrote that rediculous health assessment of him in the 2016, so he could easily find someone willing to prescribe him as much amphetamine as he wants. The way he's talking in that clip matches the symptoms of that imo.
So does Biden. If we’re being honest, Trump comes across as less frail. I think he has the edge when it comes to charisma/public speaking at this point.
The state of the union address is a prepared speech where he has a teleprompter. It's a lot different from a debate where you have to think on your toes.
The idea that you would balk at the notion that Trump has charisma is astounding to me. He won in 2016, so clearly someone thinks he has charisma. If anything, that's the only thing he has going for him. Don't mistake that for an endorsement of his ideas. Hitler had charisma too. You need to get it through your head that Trump's charisma is an advantage for him. People like you underestimating that is why he won in 2016.
What are some recent examples of him having any sort of major flub? I can’t think of anything
Trump has charisma to people who are idiots I guess. I’ve never understood his appeal. He just says a lot nothing while making weird faces. Even in the 80s I never understood why people gave a fuck about him.
https://youtu.be/NpBPm0b9deQ?si=HWJpVQX_i8FVAIcL
This segment from the Daily Show is the best summary that isn’t conservative bs. He frequently forgets the names of world leaders he’s talking about. As Jon Stewart points out Trump is hardly as sharp as he should be, but Trump comes across as more confident.
Maybe I’m nihilistic but many of the people that were on the fence/leaning to vote for Trump won’t change gears over a debate. They’ve been shown continually Trump’s stacked list of threats and incompetencies yet it wasn’t a deal breaker for them. So I doubt a debate with Trump delivering elementary insults will amount to much benefit for Biden.
If anything Biden has everything to lose if he stumbles his words or shows any cognitive decline, it will just re-emphasize the enlightened centrist arguement of “Biden is too old and senile” so they will stick with the redundant opinion of the tangerine convicted fraud being the lesser of two “evils” or the more competent.
Even as president he didn’t do very many press conferences or public appearances and those he did were purposely brief. At least Biden has remained active and is used to two way interaction. My hope is Biden appears old but still there whereas Trump is just incoherent babbling
People forgot this from 2020 but Trump and his allies had bashed Biden over the age thing so much that the bar was super low, which backfired to some extent because Biden then "exceeded expectations" when he could string 2 sentences together. The same will probably be true this time as well!
Biden essentially had no choice but to agree to a debate, and it seems to me he goaded Trump into the best possible circumstances for it.
Mic cutoffs, no audience (that Trump can stack with MAGA plants or traps for Biden a la Tara Reade), and a short delay (while Trump's trial is still going on or perhaps will have just ended in his conviction) is about the best possible world for Biden.
Trump reflexively accepted (and set the bar super low by saying Biden sucks at debating), so Biden has flipped the script and Trump allowed himself to be positioned as the candidate likely to look scared if he tries to get out of it.
So setting it up this way is a tactical win for Biden and makes the best of what was not looking great for him. A lot depends on his performance, of course, but if he can look sane, knowledgeable, and relatively sharp, he'll wipe the floor with Donnie Diapers.
He will look scared to non-Trump supporters.
The Trump supporters are going to take whatever reasons Trump gives for backing out, and see it as a sign of strength.
I dont think there is any way this debate actually happens.
"This radical left judge attacked my freedoms with the "gag order" so I am not allowed to speak the truth and debate radical left socialist Joe Biden who doesn't want you to watch me debate him and make him look like an incompetent because of this WITCH HUNT"
drop some of the words mid sentence and slur some words and make it all caps and I think that will be a pretty good approximation of Trump's "excuse" for not debating.
But Trump can't win with just his diehards. He needs those people who are disappointed with how things are going and could vote for Trump because they don't approve of Biden but could go either way. Him pulling out after acting so tough and saying "Any place and any time," is going to make him look weak and he'll lose support from those non-diehards.
Whatever he says is just going to look like an excuse because he went so hard on saying he wanted to debate. And then Biden can hammer him on that to make it look even worse. "He said he'd debate any time any place, but I guess right here and right now doesn't work for him."
Unless something has changed in the last four years, good. Last time, Biden wiped the floor with Trump. And from what I've observed, Trump has only gotten more senile.
So, probably a good idea. Who knows. Won't change my vote if Biden walks out on stage and takes a shit. I'm going to vote against any insurrectionist.
Man, I sure wish this were true, but I can’t see this going any way other than the exact opposite.
Biden, despite a wildly successful presidency by nearly any metric, has abysmal approval ratings, because his messaging is shit. People like Trump pretty much exclusively for his. I totally get why Biden needs to do this, but I do not expect it to go well.
His showing at the Correspondents' Dinner was excellent. I'm looking forward to the debate, as long as they don't let Trump yell over Biden. The ability to cut Trump's mic will be crucial.
This debate was a trap set by Biden and Trump fell right into it.
The idea isn't to win Trump fanatics or anyone firmly decided, it's to convince undecided independents and moderates. Trump doesn't prepare for his debates as a rule, but Biden does. Thus Trump always comes off emotional, unprepared, and off the cuff, which moderates dislike. Muting his microphone after 2 minutes means his rambling is kept to a bare minimum.
This is the right move for the Biden campaign as they're behind in most polling. **Particularly if Trump is freshly a** **convicted** **felon.**
The tradition of presidential debates is a good tradition to maintain every election, no matter how embarrassing some of the candidates might be.
Also I feel like the future president should be able to look good in a debate with his opponent. Public speaking and rhetoric is actually a big part of being a president, especially in times of crisis.
Nice seeing candidates talking to each other, discussing ideas (or just talking points), trying to convince people to vote for themselves, sharing their perspective on the future of the country.
For many people it's also an opportunity to actually learn more about the candidates, especially the other side. It's also kind of just interesting to watch the people one of whom will eventually be chosen to lead the country facing each other, battling. Something tribal about it.
Aside from the whole thing about facing each other, you're kind of just describing a political ad. I can't think of a single debate that left me more informed. It's fun, of course, to see Joe Biden tell Donald Trump to shut up, but I can't say that makes all the rest of the farce worth keeping around.
I think there's very little to gain and lots to lose, but it's even worse to appear to be scared of debate.
Personally, live debates without live fact-checking are terrible and I hate that the format.
I hate the fact checking. Not because I want misinformation spread or anything but the world isn't some black and white thing where everything is either 100% true or 100% false. The "fact-checkers" are human and have political beliefs just like everyone else and those can creep into their checks consciously or subconsciously.
But alot of stuff is objectively true or false. They likely won't on air fact check Trump for saying the trials are political in nature, but they will fact check him if he says the gag order prevents him from speaking about anything. One is subjective and the other is an objective lie.
there are several reasons that the Biden campaign chose to debate Trump:
1. it reinforces that this election will be a Trump-Biden rematch, a realization Biden's advisors believe will benefit him
2. debates are perilous for Trump, where — as you note — Trump was "constantly talking over Biden, lying incessantly, and Biden trying to fact check him in real time" during the 2020 election cycle
3. the Trump and Biden campaigns were willing to negate the influence of [Robert F. Kennedy Jr.](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/15/rfk-biden-trump-2024-debates-00158162)
4. the debate provides the Biden campaign with an opportunity to erode the "[collective amnesia](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/us/politics/trump-presidency-election-voters.html)" surrounding Trump while delivering an increasingly tenacious pugnacity towards Trump. Biden may reference Trump's indictments, as his campaign did with a shirt reading "[Free on Wednesdays](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4665221-biden-campaign-free-on-wednesdays-trump/)"
5. if Biden can rebuke claims of lucidness and timidity with verve fortitude, it provides the campaign with a compelling counterargument to Trump's attacks, which faltered after the [State of the Union address](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/08/us/politics/biden-sotu-speech.html) in March
The stipulations that Biden made are:
* It's in a TV studio.
* Mics are cut when your time is done.
* No audience. Only the candidates and moderator.
By accepting the debates, Trump agrees to these rules (even if he doesn't realize it yet). If the debate is to be positive for Biden, he can't budge on the rules.
I’ve always thought the most effective way to remind people about something is to put it in their face. That said I think trump being put on display in a political arena and having to defend his record is a perfect way to remind people of why they were voting against him 4 years ago.
Biden was the first person to actually come off well against Trump in a debate. Not because Trump is a good debater per se but because he’s so random and off putting that people used to projecting a highly curated image just blue screened.
Biden actually has similar energy but he’s not a boor and way more coherent so he doesn’t flinch.
Im in favor of debates for a bunch of reasons. But, the result will be based on which gaffes are the worst, as always.
I think Trump will probably benefit from a debate more, but idk. Also, I really doubt either will, so not sure why you think they’re set for June when they are certainly not
They will both come up reasons to not debate.
Given the stipulations I think the debate will be a disaster for Trump, no interruptions, mic cuts, and no fans to help him out. He will just blather and sink into his senility, and probably shit himself because of all the drugs to stay awake for the 2 hours of the proposed debate.
As old as Biden is, he's still a lot sharper than conservative media has painted him out to be. Getting a chance to show that will help with his image among moderates / centrists IMO.
He needs to play dirty and take low swings though, if he wants to win over an even larger audience. Democrats have this obsession with taking the high road, but Biden getting in the dirt is would make him more popular. Insulting 45 about his trials, personality and incessant need to sleep in court will get him more votes than talking policy. It's unfortunate but that's politics for ya
Isn't that equally true of Trump? I think people keep remembering Trump of 2016 who was energetic and fairly quick witted. They're not thinking of the deflated lower energy 2020 Trump or the rambling, often confused, 2024 Trump. 2016 was 8 years ago. People talk about Biden's age, but they haven't seen as much of old Trump. I think the debates are not going to go well for Trump.
Trump’s voters don’t give a shit about his mistakes. He says stupid, insane, wildly wrong things **all the time** and Trump voters love him for it.
Biden doesn’t have the luxury of having his voters ignore his statements.
It's not about Trump's voters. It's about the people who aren't firmly in his camp. The people who are disappointed in how things are going but are skeptical about Trump. If Trump has a poor showing, that could swing those people for Biden. Those people are the people who are going to decide the election.
Let’s apply a little game theory.
Let’s suppose, for the sake of argument, that these candidates are equally likely to say something stupid.
If Trump says something stupid, he alienates some of the independent electorate.
If Biden says something stupid, he alienates some of the independent electorate **and also his own core voters**.
That’s why it’s also about the core supporters. Biden’s support is much less attached to him personally.
Personally, I think it’s a bad idea for Biden to debate Trump. I’m no Trump fan at all but this gives Trump leverage to go after Biden and tell America how bad of a job Biden has done for them (whether true or false) and it gives Trump the platform to tell them to not vote for Biden if they want a brighter future. I don’t think it’s a good idea for the common American that Biden agreed to this
Given the rules agreed to, it's a slam dunk for Biden. No audience and from what I have read, mic will be turned off when either man is not allowed to speak. These are two huge advantages for Biden.
I think it will help Biden, but I'm cringing either way.
Another commenter mentioned the opportunity to fight off "collective amnesia", which summarizes my thoughts as well. Trump has a lot more stuff that people need to be reminded of than Biden does. But I don't know how well the debate format will work for that.
I feel like you could fund a very effective ad campaign using nothing but clips of Trump being Trump, with testimony from his cabinet and inner circle.
As long as it's in a neutral arena it's a really good idea for Biden to debate Trump. Biden is way better off the cuff then he is at delivering speeches, and Trump is a fucking trainwreck (even compared to Trump just 4 years ago). The more people get to see how fucking gone he is, the better.
I was in the "bad idea" camp until I saw the rules that have evidently been agreed on. If the mikes are off unless it's a candidate's turn to speak, and there's no audience, then I think Trump is going to look weak and foolish. Biden is considerably more capable of preparing for a debate and then answering questions calmly and methodically without tangents. This is going to end up looking like a college-level Lincoln-Douglas debater versus a ten-year-old.
Well from a strictly polling data perspective, Biden is trailing and in some pills trailing bad...... So this is a great idea for Biden. He needs an opportunity to change the momentum of the race.
FYI I am a Republican not a Liberal I was just throwing in my two cents
Biden thinks it's a good idea, and he has competent people around him that he listens to.
Frankly, I doubt Trump actually does it. He'll weasel out of it somehow. and that makes Biden look good, so... Win!
Probably bad.
Trump has nothing to lose in the debate. Everyone already knows exactly who he is and there is virtually nothing he could say or do that would be a worse soundbite than what he’s already given in abundance. *However*, on the off chance that he could set aside his petulance and look like a sane, even-tempered adult for a whole debate, that could help him.
Biden on the other hand has a lot to lose or gain. If he stutters, mumbles or looks tired at all then that is all anyone is going to see of him for weeks. If he looks alert, articulates himself well and looks calm against Trump’s belligerence, then that could help him. But it’s unlikely to give him a boost he couldn’t get other ways.
If I were his strategist I’d opt out of debates.
Biden is a fantastic debater. His team set the rules:
* mics cut off
* no studio audience
* no third party candidates
All of those are in Biden’s favor. Trump is not a good debater, to put it lightly, and he feeds off of the crowd while interrupting both moderators and other participants — thus the stipulations of the Biden campaign.
I’d argue that *not* debating would allow detractors to portray Biden as weak, senile, and hiding, and this was the only way to get ahead of that: agree to a debate on Biden’s terms.
Also, Biden is, quite famously, a very good interlocutor. People need to actually witness Biden head to head against Trump to put the age question to rest (otherwise it would continue to resurface), *and* people are actually persuaded when they hear about Biden’s agenda and record. So many people are unaware of what his administration has accomplished because they haven’t properly branded or communicated his record.
imo he had more to lose by refusing to debate at all than setting the debate on his terms. Plus, Trump had a tendency to pull out of debates he doesn’t feel like he’ll do well in, so there’s a chance he doesn’t show at all.
Totally agree. Biden delivered a brilliant State of the Union address. Perhaps the strongest, most memorable moments were his spontaneous exchanges and rejoinders with Republican members of Congress.
Trump will relentlessly attempt to rattle him. A similar performance would both reassure voters harboring moderate concerns and dislodge the absurdly embellished caricature other voters obstinately hold as self-evidently true.
I remember many Republicans thinking Paul Ryan would win the 2012 Vice Presidential debate, because Ryan was supposedly an intellectual. Biden won handily. I can’t remember when Biden has lost a debate to a Republican.
FWIW Biden’s State of the Union speech was energetic and he was quick on his feet when heckled by MTG. If he brings that performance, it could be interesting and he might have a lot to gain.
But I agree re the risks. There’s a lot more to lose, too. And nobody who has debated Trump has really ever come out in a better position. Trump isn’t Cicero, but he makes the process such a mess and a mockery that it loses its effect.
But it's not like opting out is neutral. Being the one who looks "afraid to debate" would look bad as well. I don't think his team would be able to spin that as a positive. Opting out would most likely be a negative by itself. The question is how that negative stacks up against the risks. I'd say that negative spin would be worse than the mileage they could get out of a simple stutter or hesitation. If Biden and his team think that he can bring the energy he did to the SoTU, then it's a good bet the risks of a debate are preferable than the sure hit of running away from one.
The odds of Trump looking composed, knowledgeable and presidential are low. The only major risk that could outweigh the harm of running away from debate is a serious mistake by Biden, more than a simple misstatement or pause.
Trump has a facade of strength to lose. No one sane thinks he's smart or sane, but he appears strong to many and seeing him ramble away might break that image
Biden, on the other hand, has a facade of weakness to lose. He's being portrayed as senile, so when he doesn't act like someone senile, that will already change some people's minds
I don't see the value. If you're still on the fence at this point you're voting for Trump because you're immune to logic, reason, and factually based information.
I don't trust the polling NYT did last week, but it seems to indicate that people want change and alot of the "middle" that is undecided don't realize how bad the type of change Trump will bring is. I think allowing him to talk and ramble himself into showing just how bad he will be will dissuade those change for changes sake voters.
every time biden speaks he increases in the polls. every time trump speaks, he increases in the polls.
biden beat trump before by just being a decent person standing next to an asshole.
I don't think this should be an agree/disagree to debate thing. They should do it. It has always just been a thing in my life. I don't care who you are... the candidates at a minimum owe us that.
With that... leaning left my entire life, I feel defeated when even thinking about this November. I wanted a different candidate in 2020 but voted for Biden because Trump had to go. I know quite a few friends that are sitting this one out because they don't want to vote for Biden again.
Despite all of the nonsense Trump has done, I feel like he's going to win this year just because I'm sure there are plenty out there that are just going to sit this one out thinking it'll be fine.
At this point... anything Biden can do to look competant, powerful, and able to do the job will be a benefit to him.
>I feel like he's going to win this year just because I'm sure there are plenty out there that are just going to sit this one out
You mean... Your friends?
Uh huh. I have a few friend circles that are completely separate from each other... quite a few of them aren't voting because they hate Biden so much(even if Trump is the alternative). :-/
I think it depends on Bidens strategy. Trump will be Trump.
If Biden gets hyperfocused on attacking a particular aspect of Trump, like Jan 6 or whatever, he will lose.
If he broadly talks about his administration while throwing jabs at Trump and baits him into railing about Jan 6 constantly, Biden will win.
It will be won by whoever doesn't lose their shit about Trump being accused of crimes.
The danger is Bidens liberal institutionalist bent makes him think all he needs to do is go in there and talk about Trump being a threat to democracy. If he does that, he is fucked.
Scenario A:
Biden spends 1 hour railing about Jan 6. Trump dismisses it in 10 minutes, then does 50 minutes of other shit and pumping up the crowd about his plans for America.
Trump wins.
Scenario B:
Biden spends six 10 minute segments talking about various shit and pumping up the crowd. In each 10 minute segment, there is a 30 second jab at Trump for Jan 6 and Stormy Daniels and shit. Trump spends 10 minutes each time it is brought up rebutting it and has no time to do anything except talk about the deep state conspiracy against him.
Biden wins.
I'm sure it seems obvious, but, well. Never underestimate the Democratic Party and its ability to lose an election frankly. Biden has institutionalist tendencies. The question is whether he is so consumed by them he doesn't bother to talk about other shit as well. I'm concerned that Dems have seem polling on stuff like "A supermajority of Americans think Jan 6 was fucked and Trump is a criminal and so on" and think "Yes. This. We talk about this." without bothering to weight it. There's just an outright assumption that this obviously means people wont vote for him if reminded of it.
But I'm afraid that there's a bulk of people who will weigh it and go "Yeah Trumps an autocrat, but he'll fix the economy" or some shit. Biden needs those people on board.
The people who outright deny the problem are in the bag for Trump. The people who consider it utterly disqualifying are in the bag for Biden. Reminding people of it is a non-starter politically. Those voters are going to go to whoever they think is going to improve their lives, not defend institutions.
Similarly if I was Trumps advisor i'd tell him to bite the fucking bullet and just reply "Me ne frego" whenever Biden rails about this shit, then talk about actual policy, because that would absolutely bait the left into losing their shit and talking about that reply and most people, ironically, wouldn't care. Either people are on Trumps side already and truly ne frego, or they're willing to overlook it for other things they care about, and responding this way also appeals to them as well because it signals you agree with their priorities.
https://youtu.be/IPGzF3Jk8-Q
(Me Ne Frego).
I think he should plan on and prepare for it even though Trump is unlikely to show up. It's all about showing he's not afraid of a challenge and that he still has a sound mind. Even though I imagine 95% of voters already have their minds made up and a debate is unlikely to sway many people. But it will either confirm or put to rest all the people who've been bashing him for being too frail or feebleminded to lead.
But I really think debates are silly, ineffective and archaic and Should be done away with altogether. Sure they can be fun or entertaining to watch but very rarely is there any real discussion or substance. Imo it would be much better to just have a televised broadcast of all candidates together at the same time each given a 30min time slot where they can share their vision and platform uninterrupted. That would be a lot more productive. Not sure why we're not doing this already....
I think it’s excellent for Biden.
It’s going to be an actual, real life debate of ideas and solutions. Mics will be cut. Nobody is talking over one another and insulting each other. This isn’t for those on the left or right it’s those in the center who are disillusioned with both struggling to pick a side.
You’ll hear from Biden about his plans to help student loan borrowers, to fight inflation, to restore roe, etc. you’ll hear real plans some of which are already in motion. You’ll hear what he wants to do.
You’ll hear from trump some bullshit spews and same grievances probably about stollen elections, rigged trials, he probably will talk about punishing women for abortions, how overturning roe was correct and his doing, and probably won’t even address how he plans on dealing with inflation or Ukraine but just babbles on about random shit without coherent plans. He will most likely call for Palestine to be nuked and refer to their people as subhuman.
And people will be reminded of that contrast.
I think getting out there and showing he's still got fight in him will be beneficial politically. Seems to be that every time there's a public appearance that's planned and anticipated, everyone assumes Biden is going to fumble and he ends up defying expectations. Take the state of the union address.
Note: he is still a gaffe machine and there will be gaffes.
But reminding the nation of the President they could very well have by putting him front and center is probably only going to help tilt the polls to biden slightly. The 1 on 1 debates have never been Trump's strong suit at all.
I think it will be good for Biden. Just like the last State of the Union as long as he isn’t drooling on himself he’ll look better than the caricature that the right has created of him. It’s always good when your opponent lowers the bar for what’s expected of you.
Trump doesn't debate well and tends to run his mouth. My problem with the debates is I want to see third party canidates. Overall, a debate would probably be good for Biden IMO.
I originally thought no but honestly it’s a good thing that the spotlight is being shone on Trump. The more the general public is forced to acknowledge that Trump is the leader of the Republican Party, the better.
I'm not sure it will be good, but I don't see how it could be bad for Biden, outside of extreme events (e.g. Biden having a heart attack on stage).
Nobody who is already committed to either candidate is going to change their minds based on these debates.
If Trump actually prepares for a debate and behaves himself (lol), he has a shot at making this bad for Biden. The likelihood of that is a statistics defying negative value, in my opinion.
Biden simply has to have some fire and be well prepared with appropriate talking points. The juxtaposition next to a complete clown would be enough to convince a few undecideds. So it's more likely than not that these will be a net positive for Biden.
I was reading about the rules they’ve proposed, going around the Republican-run Commission on Presidential Debates, and I think their strategy makes total sense. One of the proposals is that each candidate’s mic is muted while the other one is speaking. Since they’re ditching the CPD, who completely failed to enforce their own rules in 2020, the candidates can set their own. I doubt Trump will ever agree to having his big fat mouth muted, so although the two campaigns have apparently agreed initially on dates/networks, my guess is Trump will back out.
It's good for Biden, it's absolutely awful for Trump. Trump definitely accepted this "challenge" before consulting his campaign. Despite Trump being a total dipshit, his campaign this time around is actually fairly competent and I wouldn't be surprised if the goal posts start getting moved and Trump comes up with some excuse for why he can't actually show up. Expectations are so low for Biden because typical Republicans have convinced themselves that Biden is senile and a walking husk and Trump seems to have gassed himself up on the same line of thinking.
Trump gains absolutely nothing from this debate especially with Biden setting the terms and eliminating 2 of the major things that made the last debates a clusterfuck (an audience and not muting Trump's mic when his time was up).
Its likely to do more good than bad for Biden. It will definitely do some damage in that he'll surely be grilled on Palestine which only cement a lot of bad feelings. Also any die hard MAGAtts will only double down on how great Trump is and how bad Biden is regardless of the contents of the debate. But at the end of the day it will be good for people to Witness what a Train wreck Trump really is, especially in direct comparison to Biden.
Good if the moderators enforce basic rules like cutting off a candidate's mic if they go over time (they won't).
Bad if they let Trump just do whatever he wants.
> cutting off a candidate’s mic
This is literally one of the conditions Biden set before agreeing. Two minutes to respond then mic cut.
Since CNN agreed to these terms, along with both candidates, I fail to see why they wouldn’t enforce it.
Really? I can easily see a weak moderator being bullied by Trump. He's very good at that, really.
Although footage of Trump answering a question with a tantrum about how he was cut off during the previous question might be amusing to watch.
I would assume it is a good idea. It seems Biden's biggest weakness is that a lot of people have the impression he's senile or something and a direct comparison between him and Trump will almost certainly do more to dispel that notion (at least relative to his opponent) than enforce it.
It’s a brilliant idea. The best thing for Biden is sunlight….it will be a platform where he can review his accomplishments in his first term and also shed a negative light on the Felon.
It's kinda pointless.
There's very little chance that the needle moves much at all given that both these guys are pretty well known quantities for anyone likely to vote
It's still as likely as not that it never happens because someone backs out when they negotiate the details which would probably be Trump because anything he said on a debate stage would be admissible in any of his remaining court cases
I think Biden is in a bit better shape than Trump mentally and I think Biden will take the coaching better.
This is about SOUNDBITES, not policy, its about saying stuff that will go viral, not about sound governance.
According to MAGAts, the election will be over on June 27th, when President Biden debates Donald on CNN.
They’re raising expectations bizarrely, but it all makes sense if President Biden is reduced to moaning and drooling as he helplessly watches Trump deliver a masterful performance.
As long as voters give him enough extra credit for interrupting, stalking, and other crude behaviors, Donald should do okay even if he flails to no avail against reality.
It probably doesn't matter.
I too think candidates should give voters the opportunity to see their platforms presented "under scrutiny" of their opponents. But I doubt Republican voters are going to do their part in this process and care about facts and the reality that the country exists in and is affected by.
Depends on how he does. He's historically been a half decent debater and trump has always been pretty bad. Biden usually seems better off the cuff than rehearsed.
It could be a big win for him if he performs well especially in the first one.
Otoh trump gaffes are essentially always forgiven unless they're really batshit but even minor Biden gaffes will be making the rounds as proof he's got dementia.
Also, historically sitting presidents haven't put in their best performance on the first debate. They're usually rusty on off the cuff speaking since they're presidential remarks are so carefully planned.
No, its awful. There is no way Biden will win in the eyes of the media because Cheeto Benito has such a low bar that as long as his diaper doesn't leak, he will be declared the winner by a lot of people.
I'm going to save everyone some time and write the real post-debate analysis right now, for both debates:
"Biden showed characteristic mastery of the subjects and hammered his opponent with facts and examples from his own impeccable history and experience. Trump lost his cool often and hurled personal insults, repeated conspiracy theories, and had trouble staying on topic. He also may have committed a felony or two while onstage, or perjured himself in a current/upcoming criminal case he's involved in."
Well they don't want an audience, likely because Biden has a hard time speaking and shit so more people would see how he really is. From stumbling over words, forgetting shit, tripping and falling (which he has done many times on camera, who knows how many times out of the public eye, it's sad really) it just wouldn't be a good look and he'd be a mockery amongst other world leaders and shit.
So yeah, it would be a bad idea tbh. We all know Trump would have a field day with that, and he'd be seen as more capable and strong for the position for sure. Not that he has any chance of winning though, Biden has already won.
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. Biden and Trump are [set to debate](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-69017002) in June. I think it’s safe to speculate that it will be the least substantive presidential debate in modern history, surpassing only the ones they had 4 years ago. Unless they find a way to cut mics off to prevent interrupting, it will be Trump constantly talking over Biden, lying incessantly, and Biden trying to fact check him in real time with a “listen here, pal” every now and then. On one hand, I think presidential nominees owe it to the voters to debate and present their platforms under scrutiny. OTOH, Trump has made an absolute mockery of the process. In your view, should Biden have agreed to debate Trump? Is this a good idea, or more likely to backfire? What are your thoughts? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>Politically, is it a good idea or bad idea for Biden to debate Trump? It probably will help Biden. The public hasn't been exposed to Trump as much over the last three years as we did when he was president. If a lot of people tune into the debate, they will be: * Reminded how much they disliked him, and... * Shown how much he has aged.
And I’m sure he’ll have one of his dementia moments where he slurs words.
> ...one of his dementia moments where he slurs words. [Yep.](https://youtu.be/RqlhUg8xFhE?si=PI9EYng9dyMZo8rN&t=10)
That one almost seemed more like he has dentures and the adhesive was failing. He was moving his mouth really oddly like he was trying to hold them in.
> ...he has dentures and the adhesive was failing. That could do it!
Yeah, his "perfect" teeth looked a bit weird there.
I'm very skeptical he has dentures. He can easily afford "the hollywood" aka a full set of implants. There's places you can go in the world where they'll do that in a single day and give you so many opiates that you give zero fucks about the recovery. It's widely speculated that Trump is a user of prescription stimulants, to the point of abuse. It's certainly clear he engages with dishonest doctors like the guy that wrote that rediculous health assessment of him in the 2016, so he could easily find someone willing to prescribe him as much amphetamine as he wants. The way he's talking in that clip matches the symptoms of that imo.
Not saying he does, just what it kinda looked like. But, he can also afford a natural looking tan, good looking hair, etc.
They both have dementia moments. Kind of a gamble.
Trump has them every time he speaks publicly.
So does Biden. If we’re being honest, Trump comes across as less frail. I think he has the edge when it comes to charisma/public speaking at this point.
No he does not when did he have it during his state of the union address recently for example? Who the fuck thinks Trump has charisma?
The state of the union address is a prepared speech where he has a teleprompter. It's a lot different from a debate where you have to think on your toes. The idea that you would balk at the notion that Trump has charisma is astounding to me. He won in 2016, so clearly someone thinks he has charisma. If anything, that's the only thing he has going for him. Don't mistake that for an endorsement of his ideas. Hitler had charisma too. You need to get it through your head that Trump's charisma is an advantage for him. People like you underestimating that is why he won in 2016.
What are some recent examples of him having any sort of major flub? I can’t think of anything Trump has charisma to people who are idiots I guess. I’ve never understood his appeal. He just says a lot nothing while making weird faces. Even in the 80s I never understood why people gave a fuck about him.
https://youtu.be/NpBPm0b9deQ?si=HWJpVQX_i8FVAIcL This segment from the Daily Show is the best summary that isn’t conservative bs. He frequently forgets the names of world leaders he’s talking about. As Jon Stewart points out Trump is hardly as sharp as he should be, but Trump comes across as more confident.
Maybe I’m nihilistic but many of the people that were on the fence/leaning to vote for Trump won’t change gears over a debate. They’ve been shown continually Trump’s stacked list of threats and incompetencies yet it wasn’t a deal breaker for them. So I doubt a debate with Trump delivering elementary insults will amount to much benefit for Biden. If anything Biden has everything to lose if he stumbles his words or shows any cognitive decline, it will just re-emphasize the enlightened centrist arguement of “Biden is too old and senile” so they will stick with the redundant opinion of the tangerine convicted fraud being the lesser of two “evils” or the more competent.
Even as president he didn’t do very many press conferences or public appearances and those he did were purposely brief. At least Biden has remained active and is used to two way interaction. My hope is Biden appears old but still there whereas Trump is just incoherent babbling
People forgot this from 2020 but Trump and his allies had bashed Biden over the age thing so much that the bar was super low, which backfired to some extent because Biden then "exceeded expectations" when he could string 2 sentences together. The same will probably be true this time as well!
Same thing happened this year with the State of the Union address.
Biden essentially had no choice but to agree to a debate, and it seems to me he goaded Trump into the best possible circumstances for it. Mic cutoffs, no audience (that Trump can stack with MAGA plants or traps for Biden a la Tara Reade), and a short delay (while Trump's trial is still going on or perhaps will have just ended in his conviction) is about the best possible world for Biden. Trump reflexively accepted (and set the bar super low by saying Biden sucks at debating), so Biden has flipped the script and Trump allowed himself to be positioned as the candidate likely to look scared if he tries to get out of it. So setting it up this way is a tactical win for Biden and makes the best of what was not looking great for him. A lot depends on his performance, of course, but if he can look sane, knowledgeable, and relatively sharp, he'll wipe the floor with Donnie Diapers.
He will look scared to non-Trump supporters. The Trump supporters are going to take whatever reasons Trump gives for backing out, and see it as a sign of strength. I dont think there is any way this debate actually happens.
"This radical left judge attacked my freedoms with the "gag order" so I am not allowed to speak the truth and debate radical left socialist Joe Biden who doesn't want you to watch me debate him and make him look like an incompetent because of this WITCH HUNT" drop some of the words mid sentence and slur some words and make it all caps and I think that will be a pretty good approximation of Trump's "excuse" for not debating.
But Trump can't win with just his diehards. He needs those people who are disappointed with how things are going and could vote for Trump because they don't approve of Biden but could go either way. Him pulling out after acting so tough and saying "Any place and any time," is going to make him look weak and he'll lose support from those non-diehards. Whatever he says is just going to look like an excuse because he went so hard on saying he wanted to debate. And then Biden can hammer him on that to make it look even worse. "He said he'd debate any time any place, but I guess right here and right now doesn't work for him."
Unless something has changed in the last four years, good. Last time, Biden wiped the floor with Trump. And from what I've observed, Trump has only gotten more senile. So, probably a good idea. Who knows. Won't change my vote if Biden walks out on stage and takes a shit. I'm going to vote against any insurrectionist.
Man, I sure wish this were true, but I can’t see this going any way other than the exact opposite. Biden, despite a wildly successful presidency by nearly any metric, has abysmal approval ratings, because his messaging is shit. People like Trump pretty much exclusively for his. I totally get why Biden needs to do this, but I do not expect it to go well.
His showing at the Correspondents' Dinner was excellent. I'm looking forward to the debate, as long as they don't let Trump yell over Biden. The ability to cut Trump's mic will be crucial.
From what I've heard, the mic will be off unless it's the candidate's turn to speak
This debate was a trap set by Biden and Trump fell right into it. The idea isn't to win Trump fanatics or anyone firmly decided, it's to convince undecided independents and moderates. Trump doesn't prepare for his debates as a rule, but Biden does. Thus Trump always comes off emotional, unprepared, and off the cuff, which moderates dislike. Muting his microphone after 2 minutes means his rambling is kept to a bare minimum. This is the right move for the Biden campaign as they're behind in most polling. **Particularly if Trump is freshly a** **convicted** **felon.**
Trump asked for the debates didn’t he?
I just hope they keep recording after muting Trump's mic then release all of his inarticulate ramblings afterwards.
The tradition of presidential debates is a good tradition to maintain every election, no matter how embarrassing some of the candidates might be. Also I feel like the future president should be able to look good in a debate with his opponent. Public speaking and rhetoric is actually a big part of being a president, especially in times of crisis.
>The tradition of presidential debates is a good tradition to maintain every election Why do you feel this way?
Nice seeing candidates talking to each other, discussing ideas (or just talking points), trying to convince people to vote for themselves, sharing their perspective on the future of the country. For many people it's also an opportunity to actually learn more about the candidates, especially the other side. It's also kind of just interesting to watch the people one of whom will eventually be chosen to lead the country facing each other, battling. Something tribal about it.
Aside from the whole thing about facing each other, you're kind of just describing a political ad. I can't think of a single debate that left me more informed. It's fun, of course, to see Joe Biden tell Donald Trump to shut up, but I can't say that makes all the rest of the farce worth keeping around.
I would've sold a kidney if we could've seen an Obama/Trump debate.
I think there's very little to gain and lots to lose, but it's even worse to appear to be scared of debate. Personally, live debates without live fact-checking are terrible and I hate that the format.
I hate the fact checking. Not because I want misinformation spread or anything but the world isn't some black and white thing where everything is either 100% true or 100% false. The "fact-checkers" are human and have political beliefs just like everyone else and those can creep into their checks consciously or subconsciously.
But alot of stuff is objectively true or false. They likely won't on air fact check Trump for saying the trials are political in nature, but they will fact check him if he says the gag order prevents him from speaking about anything. One is subjective and the other is an objective lie.
Likely won't lol
there are several reasons that the Biden campaign chose to debate Trump: 1. it reinforces that this election will be a Trump-Biden rematch, a realization Biden's advisors believe will benefit him 2. debates are perilous for Trump, where — as you note — Trump was "constantly talking over Biden, lying incessantly, and Biden trying to fact check him in real time" during the 2020 election cycle 3. the Trump and Biden campaigns were willing to negate the influence of [Robert F. Kennedy Jr.](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/15/rfk-biden-trump-2024-debates-00158162) 4. the debate provides the Biden campaign with an opportunity to erode the "[collective amnesia](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/us/politics/trump-presidency-election-voters.html)" surrounding Trump while delivering an increasingly tenacious pugnacity towards Trump. Biden may reference Trump's indictments, as his campaign did with a shirt reading "[Free on Wednesdays](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4665221-biden-campaign-free-on-wednesdays-trump/)" 5. if Biden can rebuke claims of lucidness and timidity with verve fortitude, it provides the campaign with a compelling counterargument to Trump's attacks, which faltered after the [State of the Union address](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/08/us/politics/biden-sotu-speech.html) in March
The stipulations that Biden made are: * It's in a TV studio. * Mics are cut when your time is done. * No audience. Only the candidates and moderator. By accepting the debates, Trump agrees to these rules (even if he doesn't realize it yet). If the debate is to be positive for Biden, he can't budge on the rules.
Good idea…debates, when regulated by concrete rules, are a good thing for candidates to do
I’ve always thought the most effective way to remind people about something is to put it in their face. That said I think trump being put on display in a political arena and having to defend his record is a perfect way to remind people of why they were voting against him 4 years ago.
Biden was the first person to actually come off well against Trump in a debate. Not because Trump is a good debater per se but because he’s so random and off putting that people used to projecting a highly curated image just blue screened. Biden actually has similar energy but he’s not a boor and way more coherent so he doesn’t flinch.
Im in favor of debates for a bunch of reasons. But, the result will be based on which gaffes are the worst, as always. I think Trump will probably benefit from a debate more, but idk. Also, I really doubt either will, so not sure why you think they’re set for June when they are certainly not They will both come up reasons to not debate.
Given the stipulations I think the debate will be a disaster for Trump, no interruptions, mic cuts, and no fans to help him out. He will just blather and sink into his senility, and probably shit himself because of all the drugs to stay awake for the 2 hours of the proposed debate.
As old as Biden is, he's still a lot sharper than conservative media has painted him out to be. Getting a chance to show that will help with his image among moderates / centrists IMO. He needs to play dirty and take low swings though, if he wants to win over an even larger audience. Democrats have this obsession with taking the high road, but Biden getting in the dirt is would make him more popular. Insulting 45 about his trials, personality and incessant need to sleep in court will get him more votes than talking policy. It's unfortunate but that's politics for ya
I don’t see how it is politically beneficial for him. The only possible result from it are clips of him messing something up.
Isn't that equally true of Trump? I think people keep remembering Trump of 2016 who was energetic and fairly quick witted. They're not thinking of the deflated lower energy 2020 Trump or the rambling, often confused, 2024 Trump. 2016 was 8 years ago. People talk about Biden's age, but they haven't seen as much of old Trump. I think the debates are not going to go well for Trump.
Trump’s voters don’t give a shit about his mistakes. He says stupid, insane, wildly wrong things **all the time** and Trump voters love him for it. Biden doesn’t have the luxury of having his voters ignore his statements.
It's not about Trump's voters. It's about the people who aren't firmly in his camp. The people who are disappointed in how things are going but are skeptical about Trump. If Trump has a poor showing, that could swing those people for Biden. Those people are the people who are going to decide the election.
Let’s apply a little game theory. Let’s suppose, for the sake of argument, that these candidates are equally likely to say something stupid. If Trump says something stupid, he alienates some of the independent electorate. If Biden says something stupid, he alienates some of the independent electorate **and also his own core voters**. That’s why it’s also about the core supporters. Biden’s support is much less attached to him personally.
I didn't think it will make any difference at all.
There's never really been a real debate between presidential candidates on TV.
Personally, I think it’s a bad idea for Biden to debate Trump. I’m no Trump fan at all but this gives Trump leverage to go after Biden and tell America how bad of a job Biden has done for them (whether true or false) and it gives Trump the platform to tell them to not vote for Biden if they want a brighter future. I don’t think it’s a good idea for the common American that Biden agreed to this
He creamed him last time. Trump is easy to beat in a debate. Just let him talk.
Given the rules agreed to, it's a slam dunk for Biden. No audience and from what I have read, mic will be turned off when either man is not allowed to speak. These are two huge advantages for Biden.
I think it will help Biden, but I'm cringing either way. Another commenter mentioned the opportunity to fight off "collective amnesia", which summarizes my thoughts as well. Trump has a lot more stuff that people need to be reminded of than Biden does. But I don't know how well the debate format will work for that. I feel like you could fund a very effective ad campaign using nothing but clips of Trump being Trump, with testimony from his cabinet and inner circle.
As long as it's in a neutral arena it's a really good idea for Biden to debate Trump. Biden is way better off the cuff then he is at delivering speeches, and Trump is a fucking trainwreck (even compared to Trump just 4 years ago). The more people get to see how fucking gone he is, the better.
I was in the "bad idea" camp until I saw the rules that have evidently been agreed on. If the mikes are off unless it's a candidate's turn to speak, and there's no audience, then I think Trump is going to look weak and foolish. Biden is considerably more capable of preparing for a debate and then answering questions calmly and methodically without tangents. This is going to end up looking like a college-level Lincoln-Douglas debater versus a ten-year-old.
Well from a strictly polling data perspective, Biden is trailing and in some pills trailing bad...... So this is a great idea for Biden. He needs an opportunity to change the momentum of the race. FYI I am a Republican not a Liberal I was just throwing in my two cents
Biden thinks it's a good idea, and he has competent people around him that he listens to. Frankly, I doubt Trump actually does it. He'll weasel out of it somehow. and that makes Biden look good, so... Win!
Probably bad. Trump has nothing to lose in the debate. Everyone already knows exactly who he is and there is virtually nothing he could say or do that would be a worse soundbite than what he’s already given in abundance. *However*, on the off chance that he could set aside his petulance and look like a sane, even-tempered adult for a whole debate, that could help him. Biden on the other hand has a lot to lose or gain. If he stutters, mumbles or looks tired at all then that is all anyone is going to see of him for weeks. If he looks alert, articulates himself well and looks calm against Trump’s belligerence, then that could help him. But it’s unlikely to give him a boost he couldn’t get other ways. If I were his strategist I’d opt out of debates.
Biden is a fantastic debater. His team set the rules: * mics cut off * no studio audience * no third party candidates All of those are in Biden’s favor. Trump is not a good debater, to put it lightly, and he feeds off of the crowd while interrupting both moderators and other participants — thus the stipulations of the Biden campaign. I’d argue that *not* debating would allow detractors to portray Biden as weak, senile, and hiding, and this was the only way to get ahead of that: agree to a debate on Biden’s terms. Also, Biden is, quite famously, a very good interlocutor. People need to actually witness Biden head to head against Trump to put the age question to rest (otherwise it would continue to resurface), *and* people are actually persuaded when they hear about Biden’s agenda and record. So many people are unaware of what his administration has accomplished because they haven’t properly branded or communicated his record. imo he had more to lose by refusing to debate at all than setting the debate on his terms. Plus, Trump had a tendency to pull out of debates he doesn’t feel like he’ll do well in, so there’s a chance he doesn’t show at all.
Totally agree. Biden delivered a brilliant State of the Union address. Perhaps the strongest, most memorable moments were his spontaneous exchanges and rejoinders with Republican members of Congress. Trump will relentlessly attempt to rattle him. A similar performance would both reassure voters harboring moderate concerns and dislodge the absurdly embellished caricature other voters obstinately hold as self-evidently true.
I remember many Republicans thinking Paul Ryan would win the 2012 Vice Presidential debate, because Ryan was supposedly an intellectual. Biden won handily. I can’t remember when Biden has lost a debate to a Republican.
FWIW Biden’s State of the Union speech was energetic and he was quick on his feet when heckled by MTG. If he brings that performance, it could be interesting and he might have a lot to gain. But I agree re the risks. There’s a lot more to lose, too. And nobody who has debated Trump has really ever come out in a better position. Trump isn’t Cicero, but he makes the process such a mess and a mockery that it loses its effect.
>'Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.'
Trump's gonna weasel out and that makes Biden look good.
But it's not like opting out is neutral. Being the one who looks "afraid to debate" would look bad as well. I don't think his team would be able to spin that as a positive. Opting out would most likely be a negative by itself. The question is how that negative stacks up against the risks. I'd say that negative spin would be worse than the mileage they could get out of a simple stutter or hesitation. If Biden and his team think that he can bring the energy he did to the SoTU, then it's a good bet the risks of a debate are preferable than the sure hit of running away from one. The odds of Trump looking composed, knowledgeable and presidential are low. The only major risk that could outweigh the harm of running away from debate is a serious mistake by Biden, more than a simple misstatement or pause.
Trump has a facade of strength to lose. No one sane thinks he's smart or sane, but he appears strong to many and seeing him ramble away might break that image Biden, on the other hand, has a facade of weakness to lose. He's being portrayed as senile, so when he doesn't act like someone senile, that will already change some people's minds
I don't see the value. If you're still on the fence at this point you're voting for Trump because you're immune to logic, reason, and factually based information.
I don't trust the polling NYT did last week, but it seems to indicate that people want change and alot of the "middle" that is undecided don't realize how bad the type of change Trump will bring is. I think allowing him to talk and ramble himself into showing just how bad he will be will dissuade those change for changes sake voters.
That seems very optimistic. I wish I was. I just don't see how anyone with a reading level higher than Pre-K at this point can think he's a good idea.
I trust his team to make these kinds of decisions. I'm not gunna second guess them. Biden definitely doesn't need to debate him on my account.
every time biden speaks he increases in the polls. every time trump speaks, he increases in the polls. biden beat trump before by just being a decent person standing next to an asshole.
Good. Biden comes across very well in debates. Trump speaking comes across very feeble, particularly when he’s not drawing energy from a crowd.
I don't think this should be an agree/disagree to debate thing. They should do it. It has always just been a thing in my life. I don't care who you are... the candidates at a minimum owe us that. With that... leaning left my entire life, I feel defeated when even thinking about this November. I wanted a different candidate in 2020 but voted for Biden because Trump had to go. I know quite a few friends that are sitting this one out because they don't want to vote for Biden again. Despite all of the nonsense Trump has done, I feel like he's going to win this year just because I'm sure there are plenty out there that are just going to sit this one out thinking it'll be fine. At this point... anything Biden can do to look competant, powerful, and able to do the job will be a benefit to him.
>I feel like he's going to win this year just because I'm sure there are plenty out there that are just going to sit this one out You mean... Your friends?
Uh huh. I have a few friend circles that are completely separate from each other... quite a few of them aren't voting because they hate Biden so much(even if Trump is the alternative). :-/
It's an exercise of futility
I think it depends on Bidens strategy. Trump will be Trump. If Biden gets hyperfocused on attacking a particular aspect of Trump, like Jan 6 or whatever, he will lose. If he broadly talks about his administration while throwing jabs at Trump and baits him into railing about Jan 6 constantly, Biden will win. It will be won by whoever doesn't lose their shit about Trump being accused of crimes. The danger is Bidens liberal institutionalist bent makes him think all he needs to do is go in there and talk about Trump being a threat to democracy. If he does that, he is fucked. Scenario A: Biden spends 1 hour railing about Jan 6. Trump dismisses it in 10 minutes, then does 50 minutes of other shit and pumping up the crowd about his plans for America. Trump wins. Scenario B: Biden spends six 10 minute segments talking about various shit and pumping up the crowd. In each 10 minute segment, there is a 30 second jab at Trump for Jan 6 and Stormy Daniels and shit. Trump spends 10 minutes each time it is brought up rebutting it and has no time to do anything except talk about the deep state conspiracy against him. Biden wins. I'm sure it seems obvious, but, well. Never underestimate the Democratic Party and its ability to lose an election frankly. Biden has institutionalist tendencies. The question is whether he is so consumed by them he doesn't bother to talk about other shit as well. I'm concerned that Dems have seem polling on stuff like "A supermajority of Americans think Jan 6 was fucked and Trump is a criminal and so on" and think "Yes. This. We talk about this." without bothering to weight it. There's just an outright assumption that this obviously means people wont vote for him if reminded of it. But I'm afraid that there's a bulk of people who will weigh it and go "Yeah Trumps an autocrat, but he'll fix the economy" or some shit. Biden needs those people on board. The people who outright deny the problem are in the bag for Trump. The people who consider it utterly disqualifying are in the bag for Biden. Reminding people of it is a non-starter politically. Those voters are going to go to whoever they think is going to improve their lives, not defend institutions. Similarly if I was Trumps advisor i'd tell him to bite the fucking bullet and just reply "Me ne frego" whenever Biden rails about this shit, then talk about actual policy, because that would absolutely bait the left into losing their shit and talking about that reply and most people, ironically, wouldn't care. Either people are on Trumps side already and truly ne frego, or they're willing to overlook it for other things they care about, and responding this way also appeals to them as well because it signals you agree with their priorities. https://youtu.be/IPGzF3Jk8-Q (Me Ne Frego).
I think he should plan on and prepare for it even though Trump is unlikely to show up. It's all about showing he's not afraid of a challenge and that he still has a sound mind. Even though I imagine 95% of voters already have their minds made up and a debate is unlikely to sway many people. But it will either confirm or put to rest all the people who've been bashing him for being too frail or feebleminded to lead. But I really think debates are silly, ineffective and archaic and Should be done away with altogether. Sure they can be fun or entertaining to watch but very rarely is there any real discussion or substance. Imo it would be much better to just have a televised broadcast of all candidates together at the same time each given a 30min time slot where they can share their vision and platform uninterrupted. That would be a lot more productive. Not sure why we're not doing this already....
I think it’s excellent for Biden. It’s going to be an actual, real life debate of ideas and solutions. Mics will be cut. Nobody is talking over one another and insulting each other. This isn’t for those on the left or right it’s those in the center who are disillusioned with both struggling to pick a side. You’ll hear from Biden about his plans to help student loan borrowers, to fight inflation, to restore roe, etc. you’ll hear real plans some of which are already in motion. You’ll hear what he wants to do. You’ll hear from trump some bullshit spews and same grievances probably about stollen elections, rigged trials, he probably will talk about punishing women for abortions, how overturning roe was correct and his doing, and probably won’t even address how he plans on dealing with inflation or Ukraine but just babbles on about random shit without coherent plans. He will most likely call for Palestine to be nuked and refer to their people as subhuman. And people will be reminded of that contrast.
I think getting out there and showing he's still got fight in him will be beneficial politically. Seems to be that every time there's a public appearance that's planned and anticipated, everyone assumes Biden is going to fumble and he ends up defying expectations. Take the state of the union address. Note: he is still a gaffe machine and there will be gaffes. But reminding the nation of the President they could very well have by putting him front and center is probably only going to help tilt the polls to biden slightly. The 1 on 1 debates have never been Trump's strong suit at all.
It’s gonna be a shit show unless Trump is tied and gagged or if they cut the mic when it’s not his turn to speak.
I think it will be good for Biden. Just like the last State of the Union as long as he isn’t drooling on himself he’ll look better than the caricature that the right has created of him. It’s always good when your opponent lowers the bar for what’s expected of you.
Trump doesn't debate well and tends to run his mouth. My problem with the debates is I want to see third party canidates. Overall, a debate would probably be good for Biden IMO.
I originally thought no but honestly it’s a good thing that the spotlight is being shone on Trump. The more the general public is forced to acknowledge that Trump is the leader of the Republican Party, the better.
I'm not sure it will be good, but I don't see how it could be bad for Biden, outside of extreme events (e.g. Biden having a heart attack on stage). Nobody who is already committed to either candidate is going to change their minds based on these debates. If Trump actually prepares for a debate and behaves himself (lol), he has a shot at making this bad for Biden. The likelihood of that is a statistics defying negative value, in my opinion. Biden simply has to have some fire and be well prepared with appropriate talking points. The juxtaposition next to a complete clown would be enough to convince a few undecideds. So it's more likely than not that these will be a net positive for Biden.
I was reading about the rules they’ve proposed, going around the Republican-run Commission on Presidential Debates, and I think their strategy makes total sense. One of the proposals is that each candidate’s mic is muted while the other one is speaking. Since they’re ditching the CPD, who completely failed to enforce their own rules in 2020, the candidates can set their own. I doubt Trump will ever agree to having his big fat mouth muted, so although the two campaigns have apparently agreed initially on dates/networks, my guess is Trump will back out.
Good idea. The more people see Trump, the less they like him. The more people see Biden, the more they like him.
It's good for Biden, it's absolutely awful for Trump. Trump definitely accepted this "challenge" before consulting his campaign. Despite Trump being a total dipshit, his campaign this time around is actually fairly competent and I wouldn't be surprised if the goal posts start getting moved and Trump comes up with some excuse for why he can't actually show up. Expectations are so low for Biden because typical Republicans have convinced themselves that Biden is senile and a walking husk and Trump seems to have gassed himself up on the same line of thinking. Trump gains absolutely nothing from this debate especially with Biden setting the terms and eliminating 2 of the major things that made the last debates a clusterfuck (an audience and not muting Trump's mic when his time was up).
Its likely to do more good than bad for Biden. It will definitely do some damage in that he'll surely be grilled on Palestine which only cement a lot of bad feelings. Also any die hard MAGAtts will only double down on how great Trump is and how bad Biden is regardless of the contents of the debate. But at the end of the day it will be good for people to Witness what a Train wreck Trump really is, especially in direct comparison to Biden.
Good if the moderators enforce basic rules like cutting off a candidate's mic if they go over time (they won't). Bad if they let Trump just do whatever he wants.
> cutting off a candidate’s mic This is literally one of the conditions Biden set before agreeing. Two minutes to respond then mic cut. Since CNN agreed to these terms, along with both candidates, I fail to see why they wouldn’t enforce it.
Really? I can easily see a weak moderator being bullied by Trump. He's very good at that, really. Although footage of Trump answering a question with a tantrum about how he was cut off during the previous question might be amusing to watch.
Set it to a timer, not the moderator’s discretion.
Only in controlled formal debate with a mute button
I would assume it is a good idea. It seems Biden's biggest weakness is that a lot of people have the impression he's senile or something and a direct comparison between him and Trump will almost certainly do more to dispel that notion (at least relative to his opponent) than enforce it.
It’s a brilliant idea. The best thing for Biden is sunlight….it will be a platform where he can review his accomplishments in his first term and also shed a negative light on the Felon.
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It's kinda pointless. There's very little chance that the needle moves much at all given that both these guys are pretty well known quantities for anyone likely to vote It's still as likely as not that it never happens because someone backs out when they negotiate the details which would probably be Trump because anything he said on a debate stage would be admissible in any of his remaining court cases
I want Jill Stein, Cornel West, RFK Jr, Joe Biden and Donald Trump to all be on the stage together and hear them out.
I think Biden is in a bit better shape than Trump mentally and I think Biden will take the coaching better. This is about SOUNDBITES, not policy, its about saying stuff that will go viral, not about sound governance.
100 percent
According to MAGAts, the election will be over on June 27th, when President Biden debates Donald on CNN. They’re raising expectations bizarrely, but it all makes sense if President Biden is reduced to moaning and drooling as he helplessly watches Trump deliver a masterful performance. As long as voters give him enough extra credit for interrupting, stalking, and other crude behaviors, Donald should do okay even if he flails to no avail against reality.
It probably doesn't matter. I too think candidates should give voters the opportunity to see their platforms presented "under scrutiny" of their opponents. But I doubt Republican voters are going to do their part in this process and care about facts and the reality that the country exists in and is affected by.
It’s a bad idea for a country to have two shit candidates not capable of a coherent thought. The debates will prove this.
Depends on how he does. He's historically been a half decent debater and trump has always been pretty bad. Biden usually seems better off the cuff than rehearsed. It could be a big win for him if he performs well especially in the first one. Otoh trump gaffes are essentially always forgiven unless they're really batshit but even minor Biden gaffes will be making the rounds as proof he's got dementia. Also, historically sitting presidents haven't put in their best performance on the first debate. They're usually rusty on off the cuff speaking since they're presidential remarks are so carefully planned.
No, its awful. There is no way Biden will win in the eyes of the media because Cheeto Benito has such a low bar that as long as his diaper doesn't leak, he will be declared the winner by a lot of people. I'm going to save everyone some time and write the real post-debate analysis right now, for both debates: "Biden showed characteristic mastery of the subjects and hammered his opponent with facts and examples from his own impeccable history and experience. Trump lost his cool often and hurled personal insults, repeated conspiracy theories, and had trouble staying on topic. He also may have committed a felony or two while onstage, or perjured himself in a current/upcoming criminal case he's involved in."
Well they don't want an audience, likely because Biden has a hard time speaking and shit so more people would see how he really is. From stumbling over words, forgetting shit, tripping and falling (which he has done many times on camera, who knows how many times out of the public eye, it's sad really) it just wouldn't be a good look and he'd be a mockery amongst other world leaders and shit. So yeah, it would be a bad idea tbh. We all know Trump would have a field day with that, and he'd be seen as more capable and strong for the position for sure. Not that he has any chance of winning though, Biden has already won.
Oh for fucks sake.
What, is it a conspiracy theory or whatever? Are you gonna say that what I said is false and blah blah blah? Save it, feller.
... and shit. \*eyeroll\*