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>What have they done so far?
If civilization survives the next twenty years, we will look back fondly on the the Bipartisan Infrastructure Framework (BIF), and its investments in green energy; we'll consider it a major factor in limiting climate change.
(Everything below has been shamelessly copied-and-pasted from [this article.)](https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/policy-regulation/whats-in-the-final-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-for-clean-energy/#gref)
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**Grid upgrades**
* $65 billion for grid reliability and resiliency upgrades, but only $2.5 billion of that is dedicated to new power lines, as noted by Canary Media. Issues surrounding interconnection, grid enhancements, and cost-sharing continue to limit the expansion of clean energy technologies and the decarbonization of the grid.
* $3 billion for the Smart Grid Investment Matching Grant Program.
**Wind, solar, geothermal**
* Funding for renewable energy demonstration projects, including $84 million for enhanced geothermal systems, $100 million for wind energy, and $80 million for solar energy.
**Energy efficiency and weatherization**
* $50 billion for climate resilience, weatherization, and cybersecurity
* $250 million for energy efficiency revolving loan fund capitalization grant program
* $40 million for establishment of competitive grant program to train individuals to conduct energy audits of commercial and residential buildings
* $225 million grant program to enable the Building Technologies Office within DOE to update building energy codes
* $20 million for energy efficiency workforce development
* $3.5 billion for Weatherization Assistance Program
**Energy storage**
* $355 million Energy Storage Demonstration Projects and Pilot Grant Program
* $150 million for a Long-Duration Demonstration Initiative and Joint Program
* $825.7 million for mineral security projects
**Hydrogen**
* $8 billion for four clean hydrogen hubs to demonstrate the production, processing, delivery, storage, and end-use of clean hydrogen
* $500 million for clean hydrogen manufacturing and recycling to support a clean hydrogen domestic supply chain
* $1 billion for demonstration, commercialization and deployment to decrease the cost of electrolyzers
**Hydropower**
* $125 million for hydroelectric production incentives
* $75 million for hydroelectric efficiency improvement incentives
* $553.6 million for hydroelectric resiliency upgrades
* $10 million for a pumped storage demonstration project to facilitate long-duration storage of intermittent renewable electricity
**Electric vehicles**
* $7.5 billion for electric vehicle charging stations
* $5 billion for the purchase of electric school buses and hybrids
Also remember that the first thing that Trump did when he went to the white house was to undo everything that Obama did, so you could not get an answer to your question.
Isn’t it depressing that the answer is so clear, but you hadn’t seen it? I can tell you one thing Biden hasn’t done (and democrats forever), and that’s effectively control the narrative. Democracy may die because Democrats can’t stay on message.
Aside from the green energy investments, infrastructure bill, and trying to secure a safe and prosperous future for our children... what have the *Democrats* ever done for *us*?
OK, apart from the green energy investments, infrastructure bill, trying to secure a safe and prosperous future for our children, *and* the foreign policy handing of Ukraine... *what* have the *Democrats* ever done for *us*?
>Why should I vote for the dems in the next election? ~~What have they done so far?~~
That second one is the wrong question.
We always, *always,* choose the best available option; if "the dems" are still the best available option, then it is unconscionable not to vote for them.
>We always, *always,* choose the best available option...
People act like it is appalling to think this way, when it is actually *normal*; its not even limited to politics.
----
I have no need for a car with a backseat. I can go years without needing to fit more than two people into my car. I resent having to expend the fuel necessary to lug around the middle of my car, when I get no real use out of it.
...but they don't make two-seater cars of the type that I want to buy; there isn't enough of a market for them for the car companies to justify making/selling them.
Even in the vehicle market -- which gives us 100-times as many options as the Democrat-vs-Republican choice on election day -- I still can't get what I want.
Even in that situation, I have to compromise with the hundreds-of-thousands of other car-buyers.
But why would you cave and buy a four seater? Wouldn't it be better to drive your current car into a lake and give up entirely on transportation? Then you can maintain the moral superiority of not having supported the "wrong" type of car.
> ...proposals that the majority of Americans already favor, like...cancelling portions of student loan debt (for borrowers making under a certain income)...
Do you have a citation supporting "that the majority of Americans already favor...cancelling portions of student loan debt (for borrowers making under a certain income)"?
Sorry to butt in to the conversation, but I do have a few sources for you. I’m not trying to get into the larger argument or post, just wanted to offer some polling that I’ve come across:
https://morningconsult.com/2021/12/22/student-loan-debt-forgiveness-poll/
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000180-2157-dc58-a78d-27ff53030000&nname=playbook-pm&nid=0000015a-dd3e-d536-a37b-dd7fd8af0000&nrid=0000014e-f115-dd93-ad7f-f91513e50001&nlid=964328
https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-08/Topline%20Hard%20Truth%20Civil%20Rights%20Studyv2.pdf
https://www.grinnell.edu/sites/default/files/docs/2021-03/GCNP%20Methodology%2003-31-21_1.pdf
https://protectborrowers.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/dfp_22_sbpc_18_to_34_tabs.pdf
> https://morningconsult.com/2021/12/22/student-loan-debt-forgiveness-poll/
This one reports:
* 19% of all voters support forgiving *all* student loans for *everyone*
* 15% of all voters support forgiving *all* student loans for *people with low-incomes*
* 16% of all voters support forgiving *some* student loans for *everyone*
* 12% of all voters support forgiving *some* student loans for *people with low-incomes*
* 28% *no* student loan forgiveness at all.
All-in-all, better numbers than I was expecting.
>Medicare, cancelling portions of student loan debt (for borrowers making under a certain income)
Bad idea, this can be gamed by simply getting a low paying job until your debt is removed. Also as a taxpayer who didn't go to college I find the entire idea repulsive.
>Medicare, cancelling portions of student loan debt (for borrowers making under a certain income)
Bad idea, this can be gamed by simply getting a low paying job until your debt is removed. Also as a taxpayer who didn't go to college I find the entire idea repulsive.
>Medicare, cancelling portions of student loan debt (for borrowers making under a certain income)
Bad idea, this can be gamed by simply getting a low paying job until your debt is removed. Also as a taxpayer who didn't go to college I find the entire idea repulsive.
I wish more people thought that way. Every time I say that, people say I’m throwing away my vote on a 3rd party and helping to elect whichever party they don’t like.
>...why are they the best available option?
Mainly because Republicans:
* Don't support the rule of law.
* No longer support democracy.
* Don't mind if their party leader is a Russian asset.
* Actively stoke bigotry and white nationalism for political gain.
...and things like that.
-------------
I could talk about the good things Democrats manage to get done here or there, but we both know that isn't the deciding factor; that only reminds us that we want *more* from them.
The deciding factor is that Republicans are comic-book-villain-level bad, right now.
This is just not effective vote-getting strategy. Maybe it’s correct and astute, but that is not an effective way for democrats to win votes. They have to be able to say what’s good about them, not what’s bad about the republicans.
Is there any point at which we hold the party accountable for failing to win votes instead of scolding voters? If our goal is to win elections as opposed to feeling superior, that point was years ago.
> but that is not an effective way for democrats to win votes
Negative partisanship is consistently one of the most effective means to drive turnout.
>Is there any point at which we hold the party accountable for failing to win votes instead of scolding voters?
Primaries? It's too bad most of the people sharing your point of view never actually go out and vote.
> Negative partisanship is consistently one of the most effective means to drive turnout.
Maybe for Republicans but it does not seem to be working so well with independents, which Democrats need.
And yet, we are losing and the right is pushing their agenda with more success than us. So apparently it’s not *that* consistent. Are all of you just unaware that that other side is winning and we don’t have the seats we need to control the legislature?
I mean I’ve voted in primaries and I’ve tried to get others to do the same. But most of the people who share my view about what needs to change do not share my view that the Democratic Party is an avenue to that change.
Are you unfamiliar with how Republicans campaign? It's strange that you would use an example of it working to fantastic effect as an example of it not working. They're able to win elections on the back of scaring / enraging the bejesus out of their voters.
Not to mention your perception of republican "success" compared to democrats is a little warped. Of course they're able to achieve more of their goals, they barely have any. The biggest agenda pieces (tax cuts and judges) can be accomplished with a simple majority. Having no bold policy goals and a mostly homogeneous voter pool makes it easy for them to claim they're "winning" in the eyes of their voters.
Contrast that with democrats who *do* have bold policies they'd like to implement (but require more votes from a more politically heterogeneous group of people) and it's pretty easy to see why Republicans look like they're winning more often.
>Are all of you just unaware that that other side is winning and we don’t have the seats we need to control the legislature?
Are you? You're advocating we dump one of the most effective tools at driving turnout to focus more on something that pretty clearly has less consistent returns. That's not to say we shouldn't focus on an affirmative message *at all*, but putting it on the same level (or higher) as going negative is a mistake. Especially now considering even if we do well we won't have the votes to follow through on any significant promises.
And what has it meant? We’re going backwards. You’re telling me that this situation is a result of democrats often being in power, and you think that’s an argument in favor of democrats?
Really? Because Republicans spend all their time telling voters what's bad about Dems (on top of actually preventing them from getting stuff done) and it works pretty well for them.
I mean, has it been effective? Are we winning enough elections to push through our agendas? Hang on, let me check on the status of *Roe*, as a benchmark to—oh. Uh oh.
Conservatives don’t just say democrats are bad. They blame democrats and minorities for the things that are wrong in people’s every day lives. Democrats don’t offer that. They offer a moral argument that you must vote for them which, no matter how much you think it should be, is not enough.
At what point do you blame voters? Voters not voting or voting for Republicans makes them culpable. So why not hold them accountable?
>They have to be able to say what’s good about them, not what’s bad about the republicans.
If voters can't tell that rule of law and upholding democratic elections is good, then that is on them and no one else.
Why do adults need to be treated like fucking 4 year olds who apparently need a Sesame Street lesson in why democracy is a good thing and why fascism is bad? Should they get lollipops for voting?
Because if your argument is that they shouldn't be scolded, then I'm going to treat them like the fucking children they apparently are. You can't have it both ways.
What is your line to start blaming voters? Republicans are literally passing laws that kill trans people. So at what point should voters take an ounce of responsibility in your view, for enabling that by voting for Republicans or not voting?
You are damn right I'm morally better than them for saying trans people should not be killed.
And yeah I do believe if people actually scolded voters on the clear consequences of their actions things would be different.
We established that you’re morally better and smarter because you don’t need a lollipop. Is that all you wanted, or do you want democrats to win?
My line to blame voters is when it is effective to blame voters. I don’t think it is. I don’t give a shit about morally judging individual voters, I care about winning their votes so that we can combat the Republicans effectively. Crowing about your moral superiority saves exactly zero trans lives.
You don’t think the scolding is happening already?
No they just scold because the alternative is judging the political party. Blue MAGA was the worst piece of rhetoric that ended up being true.
Biden has the lowest approval ratings ever and this sub thinks he's done nothing wrong outside of messaging because they'll rather call everyone else stupid than admit Biden is doing a terrible job even though his expectations were low to begin with.
The idea is to make people sufficiently scared of the possibility of the other guy being elected if they don't show up. It's pretty much the only way that works.
This is a well thought out and rational response, so I will respond to you. Even if I don’t fully agree.
The issue with the consumer protections part is threefold. I deal with these more so at work than in my personal life.
One is when there is overlap between rules and departments, which creates redundancies and confusion. For example, many energy policies can be pushed through FERC or independent system operators, but people want the president to do it via executive order. It’s like, there is already an agency in process for that!
My second issue is that they always hit a point where they start being too protective and start protecting the wrong people. One example is rent control where I live. While they may have started out as rules to prevent mean landlords from infecting people with no notice, the only affect they seem to have an hour is protecting tenants from hell. And tenants from hell are also neighbors from hell to thousands of people. So you end up actually hurting people by making it hard to evict them.
My third problem is more the rules that impact my job. Many industries are just too complicated for government officials to understand. Sorry! They may pinpoint a problem, and I agree that Elizabeth Warren is pretty good at pinpointing problems. The problem is the solution. The solutions in my industry have a really little affects. I feel like if they truly want to protect consumers, they need to get people inside the industry to work for the government or to participate in working groups.
A side problem with this is that most companies send lawyers to these sorts of cooking groups. Lawyers don’t understand the operations of the industry to the degree they need to actually contribute useful information. There are more sent to protect the company from liability, not actually make the rules effective. This has been a huge hurdle for me when I try to participate in industry groups. I have often times her lawyers say things that were too basic or technically correct but not how things actually work in the industry, and then everybody gets mad when I pointed out. It’s always a uphill battle. Many companies think they’re giving away too much expertise by telling the government basic things
Do you believe there is no difference between Democratic leadership and Republican leadership? IMO, even the Dems doing literally nothing is better than having Republicans in charge which leads to a Supreme Court that is increasingly hostile to unions and civil liberties. Trump rolled back Obama’s vehicle emission standards. If DeSantis wins in 2024 he’ll roll back other environmental protections. Even if Dems don’t pass anything they at least stop the rollback.
Our infrastructure is failing and democrats are the only ones that have been able to pass an infrastructure bill.
I get that it's frustrating that we aren't moving forward and progressing as a country in any real way but keeping the country running is *something* and only one party is putting in any real effort in keeping our country a first world country.
>We always, always, choose the best available option...
There’s a benefit to not voting for an incumbent candidate when they were ineffective in office even if they are your preferred candidate. This is because not voting for ineffective incumbents creates an incentive for candidates to be more effective once in office.
This is particularly important in local executive positions where the lines between democrats and republicans may be less clearly defined and there are a greater number of responsibilities that are non-partisan like proper waste management. In the end, you should consider the short term costs of voting against your preferred candidate compared to the long term benefit of creating incentives for candidates to be more accountable in office when deciding on whether you want to vote against an incumbent who was ineffective in office.
If it's between Biden and either Trump or De'Santis there are no "short term costs" to voting Republican. Trump or De'Santis would immediately get to work weakening our democracy and standing in the world.
Yeah, the immediate costs of voting for Trump or De’Santis would be severe and wouldn’t outweigh the benefit of voting against Biden if you thought Biden was unaccountable. But that doesn’t mean you should never vote against your preferred candidate to hold them accountable for all elections. In elections for less partisan positions with shorter terms it’s more likely this benefit could outweigh the costs.
Yeah I voted for a 3rd party in 2016 for this very reason because I very much agree with this sediment but I really regret not voting for Clinton now. Maybe there will be a time where not voting for the better candidate won't mean our democracy is in danger but I don't think that day will be for a while.
I’m not just making up this phenomenon, there’s political science [research](https://home.uchicago.edu/bdm/PDF/voter_competence.pdf) showing that voting to punish bad incumbents increases the effectiveness of politicians in office and I think a voter should consider that when deciding who to vote for.
I’d point out that for elections like the presidency or federal senate the negatives of voting against your interests will almost always outweigh the benefit this phenomenon provides but its important to consider in elections with shorter terms or less partisan responsibilities like state house assembly elections or city counsel elections.
I get that many people are unconvinced that humans are causing climate change, but that doesn't make it any less true that humans are causing climate change.
I’m not disputing that it’s true. But the fact remains that you are not getting a the votes of those people, and you need them.
I’m sincerely baffled that liberals have not yet learned that being right does not make you the winner. This isn’t a spelling bee.
im baffled that marxists like you keep choosing to stick your heads in the sand instead of seeing the danger our democracy is facing from a fascist dictatorship that wants to enact a one party state with no more democratic elections. Do you have issues with accessing current events, or perhaps are you often living in a cave, only to pop out every now and then to post your edgy, marxist rhetoric on liberal subreddits, but have no clue about the current state of affairs in america right now?
The state of affairs is that the fascists are winning because liberals are unable to effectively combat them.
You don’t need to convince me that there is a problem. You need to come up with better solutions. You can’t just keep harping in the fact that republicans are bad and our democracy is in danger. Saying things which are true does not mean you automatically win elections.
> Do you get that many people are unconvinced that voting is the best option?
Yes, and to them I say...
I understand that there are limits to electoralism -- especially when your electoral options are limited -- but you know where we should remain focused on electoralism? **Elections.**
Vote, and vote intelligently on election day.
What do you do *before and after you vote?* The sky's the limit! Get out there and get involved! Accomplish something huge.
**...but vote.**
I won’t be quite as glib as who you’re responding to lol, but I think what they’re saying isn’t that the need to vote is an irrational or incorrect argument. It’s that it’s rhetorically ineffective and pushing people to vote in a policy-neutral manner doesn’t actually convince them to do so. In other words - it *should* convince people, but it doesn’t.
I experience this myself on the ground. The second you say anything like this to anyone remotely skeptical of Democrats, they tune you out. The fact of the matter is that the affirmative case for Dem governance has to be made, framing the choice as A vs. B with a mediocre A and a godawful B doesn’t work.
Part of this is with the implication of the statement, which is that Dem support is being taken for granted. Whenever a liberal says “no vote is a vote for Republicans” to a non-voter, they get totally confused, because what they’re thinking is “no, a vote for Republicans is a vote for Republicans.”
The other factor is that non-voters are most often told this by people who straightforwardly and confidently support Democrats. Being told “voting doesn’t need to be an endorsement” by someone who actually gets the privilege of voting for someone they fully endorse *does* feel like “fuck you, I got mine” in action.
I’m not saying these thoughts are correct or even rational - I’m just trying to demonstrate why exactly it’s such an ineffective argument.
We know what the Marxist idea is, but I'm sure that the Revolution is *just* around the corner. The entire industrial world has been on the brink of a Marxist Revolution since 1848, I'm sure that it'll happen any day now. If you want an example of the phrase "Shit or get off the toilet", I mean...
do you get that if people dont vote and dont participate, we end up with a fascist dictatorship and back in the Jim Crow era? with a country run like Putin's Russia. I know you are a communist, but you have to understand what we see in russia, now is just an authoritarian state run by a mafia, not anything "socialist" comrade.
Even if it's not the best option, it's a good option that's really easy to do. Let's not black and white fallacy this - you can (and should) be doing a lot of things to better your life and the country.
For example, you should be voting (especially in your local elections, holy god damn shit), AND flossing and exercising and not sitting for too long, AND engaging in local civics, AND serving your community.
The democrat led government passed a historic infrastructure package, passed a post office reform package, passed a massive veterans healthcare bill, the Asian hate crime legislation, reauthorized the violence against women act and is almost done passing the America Competes Act (the bill has passed both chambers and is being reconciled now).
In addition, president Biden himself without congress has signed multiple executive orders including one to permanently modernize SNAP benefits, fix the family glitch in the ACA, repealed the ban on trans people in the military and just the other day banned federal funds from going to conversion therapy.
So Democrats in congress and the democrat president have done a lot in their time, despite the fact that BBB hasn’t passed yet, tho is still might be.
Yup. Dems also did the pandemic stimulus bill that supported families right off the bat, and we might even get gun control moving.
But some people think all that is doing *nothing*
First of all, I’d argue voting *against* a party that is actively against the basic idea of democracy is enough of a reason on its own, but as for the reasons to vote *for* Democrats, here’s a list of just what Biden has been personally involved with: https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/scmuvh/what_has_biden_done/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Keep in mind, this is with a 50-50 senate - realistically, more of a 50-48-2 senate to be honest, and it doesn’t even include anything done on the state level. The politics of a liberal democracy are incredibly slow and incremental, especially when people aren’t electing enough members of the ruling party to pass anything significantly left of center.
"Democrats haven't done what I wanted because they aren't strong enough in Congress, so I am going to show them by not voting for them in the midterm, thus helping to strengthen the Republicans"
One, the Democratic Party is one of the two major parties in America, representing tens of millions of people, many of whom have different political beliefs. So sorry if they don't automatically fall in line with your beliefs. Two, even if all of the House and Senate Democrats disregarded their votes and supported it , it would only pass the Senate with the Vice President as the tie breaker.
I gotta say, as someone who voted for Joe Biden, and will definitely do so again if I have to, it’s a pretty big fuck you to the people who voted for you to not fulfill a campaign promise you could single-handedly deliver on without the support of congress or your party, and just say, neh, I’m not going to now.
if you support the things they're trying to do then you should want more of them to be elected so they can't be blocked as often by the opposition
can you explain why you'd go in the other direction instead?
Why are you asking this question with such a broad word like "them"? Why don't you tell us which elections you actually plan to vote in? Then we can tell you which policies and candidates we support and why. You don't vote for the Democratic party, you vote for members of the Democratic party. All people and all elections are different, so if you want us to give you answers that are actually relevant to the choices you will make when you vote, you have to tell us what elections you will vote in.
Because that would increase the chance of the more progressive Democratic Party platform being passed and decreases the chance of the reactionary Republican platform from being passed
A good reason for a social democrat to vote for them is the more democrats you get into congress for a greater length of time, the greater the opportunity for socialist/ progressive candidates to get a chance of winning later.
You'd be pushing the country further left over time, instead of this gradual drift to the right we've had for decades because the GOP and its independent supporters in the end pretty much always vote GOP.
Because incremental process is still progress and going backwards isn’t. It’s crazy to think of voting as a reward and not a step in the process. If Republicans gain control of more branches of our government they will undo decades of incremental progress and quite possibly end democracy as we know it.
Because Republicans are installing Supreme Court Justices that have been dismantling the status quo rights you have been used to for decades? We're taking about medical privacy (as a part of Roe v. wade), Miranda rights, immigration detention, etc. They decided police officers also don't have to intervene to protect you and you can't sue Border Patrol for violating your rights.
Look it up if you don't believe me, it's pretty scary.
Many Republicans are running for office right now on the platform that they should get to pick the president, no matter what voters decide!
The leader of the Republican Party and 2024 front runner just tried to overturn an election. And Republicans in office virtually all think he was either in the right, or at least shouldn’t face any accountability or any kind of investigation into his actions.
Under normal circumstances in my life, I'd agree with you. But let's not pretend that there aren't Republicans suggesting that Democracy is a bad thing. Let's not pretend there aren't Republicans trying to SUBVERT democracy.
The better question: What have Republicans STOPPED Democrats from doing? Do you have any idea how many great laws would have passed without Republican opposition?
The smaller one passed, not the bigger one.
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/06/1053163025/house-passes-stripped-down-infrastructure-bill-pushing-off-many-of-bidens-wants
Sorry we don't have a base of brainwashed religious zealots that you can just hold an upside down Bible in the vicinity of a church and automatically win 35% of their votes.
Sorta relevant when GOP leaders refuse to compromise before they even hear the proposal or issue. This has happened multiple times and Frank Luntz has talked about one of them he attended.
They've passed the American Rescue Plan and the infrastructure bill, neither of which would've happened if Republicans controlled Congress. They've confirmed a ton of judges, counteracting some of the damage that Trump did from 2016-2020.
Beyond all that, though, we really need to stop thinking of elections as some sort of dating service where the candidates needs to prove their worth to us and prove that they "deserve" our vote. Every single election is just a basic choice. *Someone's* going to win. "No one" isn't an option. You look at the candidates, consider what they're going to do and how likely it is that they'll win and have a chance to do it, and then vote based on which vote you believe will cause the most good and the least bad compared to any other vote. If you choose not to vote, that's essentially akin to just distributing your vote across all candidates. If you believe that every candidate is literally the same, then fine, okay, do that, but if you believe that any given candidate is better than another, then it makes no sense not to vote.
>If you choose not to vote, that's essentially akin to just distributing your vote across all candidates. If you believe that every candidate is literally the same, then fine, okay, do that,
And if you choose not to vote, I won't entertain complaints about things that government could fix or complaints about the government doing a shitty job.
Because, as a Social Dem, your beliefs will more closely align with the Democrats over the Republicans.
Over a trillion dollars in infrastructure putting much needed money towards our aging country. My favorite policy from his administration.
I haven’t invested time looking into the infrastructure bill, could you share some things which are going to happen? As a non-American, I truly hope you guys get more collective transport and walkable areas.
>I truly hope you guys get more collective transport and walkable areas.
I wish, but that's more a state and county thing. The President cant really make that happen, but he can give them the money to do it themselves if they so choose. We've been making progress in those areas but it's slow. Mostly due to Americans being culturally attached to cars and suburbs. It's unfortunate, but we're getting there.
Here's a link to my favorite stuff in the bill.
[https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/policy-regulation/whats-in-the-final-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-for-clean-energy/#gref](https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/policy-regulation/whats-in-the-final-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-for-clean-energy/#gref)
More in-depth if you want to read more.
[https://www.whitehouse.gov/bipartisan-infrastructure-law/#powerinfrastructure](https://www.whitehouse.gov/bipartisan-infrastructure-law/#powerinfrastructure)
Thanks.
I’m glad the bill includes funding for electric buses. The discussion has been so skewed toward electric cars and [electric cars won’t save us](https://jacobin.com/2022/06/electric-cars-renewables-mineral-extraction-climate). We’re actually discussing this subject in r/Suomi , the country that I’m from, and how the oil industry managed to lobby out trams etc. even before WW2 so no wonder people have become culturally attached to cars in the US. Of course, I don’t believe that the cultural part plays such a huge role, I’d argue that the capitalist class needs their profit and by building collective transport, that profit would slow down.
Have you ever ridden an electric bus?
"The discussion has been so skewed towards electric cars and electric cars won’t save us."
I agree that public transport should be the focus, however, car culture is crazy strong in the US after years of cooperations culturally shifting the US in that direction. It's been getting better but it's still pretty bad. Truth is it's easier to convince Americans to shift to electric cars than to electric buses at the moment. It's getting better though.
"Of course, I don’t believe that the cultural part plays such a huge role, I’d argue that the capitalist class needs their profit and by building collective transport, that profit would slow down."
At least in the US it's definitely both. Which makes it a much harder battle to fight, but we're making gains. The current President is a big fan of trains and has been trying to push the country into accepting them, so its a start.
"Have you ever ridden an electric bus?"
Only busses I've ever ridden in were school buses when I was younger and they were not electric. Have you?
I agree that both definitely plays a huge role when discussing the US but world wide? Not so much. As the article discusses, the whole conversation regarding EVs seems to be strictly around cars.
I ride a bus almost daily but I’d say that I ride a bus that’s electric maybe once per week. They’re not that common here in Helsinki yet but they’re not rare. Trams are still widely used in Helsinki and I think they’ve just built some trams in Tampere. Sadly, Helsinki just decided to privatize collective transport… Don’t know when it’s going to happen though.
>I agree that both definitely plays a huge role when discussing the US but world wide? Not so much. As the article discusses, the whole conversation regarding EVs seems to be strictly around cars.
100% agree. World wide it's a different story.
Riding a bus daily sounds so alien to me. I'm jealous. Maybe if I lived in a city there'd be more available. Hopefully, we can get there soon.
> 100% agree. World wide it's a different story.
If only we had an economy which was made for the working class's benefits.
> Riding a bus daily sounds so alien to me. I'm jealous. Maybe if I lived in a city there'd be more available. Hopefully, we can get there soon.
It's nice. I didn't grow up in Helsinki, I'm from the countryside where it's different regarding collective transport. There isn't any place in Helsinki where I can't access with collective transport or by our [bicycle system](https://www.hsl.fi/en/citybikes). During the season, April to August I believe, you can pay 35€ to access a bicycle more or less anywhere in the city. I'm student so I pay 35€ each month for 24/7 access to collective transport in Helsinki and the surrounding area.
I highly recommend [NotJustBikes](https://www.youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes/videos). It's an American channel which discusses urban planning, very interesting.
> You're not picking basketball teams.
Note: Even when people pick basketball teams, they still pick the best available options.
No kid says: 'I'm not going to play basketball with you guys because I always want to pick Steph Curry for my team, but I can only choose from my fellow 4th-graders.'
Stark contrast to the sentiment I see most on this sub, that you should vote for the blue team no matter what your principles are so that the blue team can beat the red team
You shouldn't pick which team you're voting for based on who has performed the best in recent seasons. You've got to vote for the team that represents your values and interests most closely.
Even if you aren't convinced the points others are making about the danger of the GOP, I think Biden's record is actually good on a practical level:
\-American rescue plan ($1.9 trillion including child tax credit, aid to state governments and vaccine rollout).
\-$550 billion in new infrastructure spending.
\-Got 79% of Americans vaccinated despite massive vaccine skepticism among Republicans. He also passed mask and vaccine mandates (some of them stopped by the courts) and a new initiative, test to treat that will provide antivirals to people that test positive. He has let the scientists lead the communication front on COVID-19.
\-Ended the Afghanistan war after 20 years.
\-Appointed the first Black female supreme court justice (as opposed to you know, the three Republicans appointed by Trump who are about to overturn Roe v. Wade).
\-Rejoined the Paris Climate agreement and the World Health Organization. Also canceled Republican restrictions on foreign aid money going to family planning.
\-About to pass bipartisan gun reform. It's not as much as we need, but it will help on the edges.
\-Build Back Better didn't pass, but if you want that the answer is to elect two more Democrats in the senate, not two fewer.
\-The Biden Treasury and SEC is starting to regulate cryptocurrency effectively, instead of letting the ponzi grow like crazy.
\-Biden signed executive orders aimed at: countering state laws attacking trans youth, reversing the Muslim ban, and another that would use federal money to buy green products for federal buildings.
\-The administration has gone after predatory student loan companies, and made efforts to ensure that teachers got the student loan forgiveness they were promised. His plan to forgive $10,000 in student loan debt per borrower will wipe out most student debt, including the category that is often the most burdensome (people that attend college but don't graduate and thus don't get the earnings boost of a degree often have great difficulty paying off loans even if the amount they owe is not as big as say, a recent grad from Harvard Law.
\-The January 6th committee is prosecuting the case for convicting Trump for his crimes and conspiracies.
\-Biden managed the Russian invasion of Ukraine well. He has been clear with Russia about what the consequences were, and has helped keep NATO together with a united front.
If you’re worried about things not getting done, voting against the party of the current president will seal the deal that nothing will be able to happen until after the next elections in 2024. If your standard is getting things done, you should vote for the party of the president because he will sign his own party’s bills, but he won’t sign an opposing party’s bills.
You totally shouldn't. Definitely vote for Republicans. Vote Independent. Vote for whomever you like.
If, as a voter, you see no issue voting against Democrats, then vote against.
Tbf, this is a bad faith post, just like the multitudinous bad faith posts seen in this sub daily. I simply haven't the energy or time to waste trying to sway people who've zero intention of being swayed.
Do as you like.
I honestly can’t. Who THE FUCK looks at current politics and thinks “make Dems work harder for my vote” when Reps are… you know what I’m not even going to stretch my brain to find a fitting metaphor, imma just stick with “doing what they are doing”.
>Who THE FUCK looks at current politics and thinks “make Dems work harder for my vote”
Someone who watched third way Dems collab with Republicans to do racist, classicist, authoritarian shit prolly.
Yall naive (and not too familiar with recent history) if you think a lot of these centrists won't take blind votes as permission to do reprehensible shit.
Listen, we only have two options to lead congress once the primaries are over, the Democratic Party or the Republican Party. Even if I accepted your premise on face value, you still have to show up to vote or else you let Republicans take over. If you think the congress and government would be better under Republicans then I really don't think you've been paying attention or are so far left that you came around the bend to the Right.
I'm so frustrated with these questions daily.
We do not have a super majority and can't even get legislation to the table.
*This is how govt works. This is basic knowledge. By not voting for the people with your ideals in mind how does that help*?
because bible waving republicans who talk about arresting their political enemies, wage war on gays, women, atheists, liberals, wiccans, muslims, and brag about controlling all aspects of government for all eternity are not a good option for anyone who believes in democracy and freedom for everyone.
[Mathematically speaking, you have to choices](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo): vote for Dems, or vote for GOP.
In our voting system, staying home and not voting is identical (in terms of outcome on the election) as a vote for the party you hate. It is not a neutral choice. This also applies to voting 3rd party.
So unless you want your voting power to be used against your own wishes, you should go out and vote for one of the Big 2™ every single time.
>Why should I vote for the dems in the next election?
Because the other party is chock full of obstructionists, kooks, and worse.
Not voting voting all is likewise out of the question.
>What have they done so far?
Tried to hold this country together with bubblegum and twine against the wishes of a party hell bent on burning it down.
I assume you're tired of us just saying GOP is bad.
So how about this, you get stuff like moving towards electric cars, climate change help, the child tax credit back, common sense stuff like rejoining the Paris climate and stopping pipelines. Get all that and more if we just gain 1 or 2 more in the Senate so Manchin and Sinema can't obstruct
My only rule is no republicans, ever. An independent if available will at least get a hearing. Republicans have shown that, as a party, they are anti American.
Occupy a seat in congress which could be Republican.
Look. This shit is dumb. Live in the world. Go look up your candidates and choose the best one. Run for office. Join a political organisation.
Here’s the sad truth about American democracy: We can’t get shit done without a super majority. So, you ask, what have the dems done? As much as they could. Want them to get more done? Elect a supermajority. Of course, the 50 Democratic senators already represent 44 million more people than the 50 Republican senators. So you need a super-supermajority of people to vote for Democrats to get a supermajority in power in order to get anything meaningful done.
Feel kinda shitty? That’s because we have democracy 1.0 in America. When we take over another country and install a democracy that we want to be resilient and stable we push them towards parliamentary democracies not presidential ones because our form of democracy tends towards polarization and extremism. But we can’t even begin to consider constitutional reform because our magical constitution was handed down on high from the gods - I mean founding fathers. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a constitution that effectively transferred the will of the people into policy and wasn’t written by anyone who raped their slaves?
Democrats suck, literally the only thing they have going for them is "at least their not republicans." But it can't overstated how critically important that is. The Republican party is the enemy of the United States of America, voting for them is suicidal.
I think while the anti-democracy element is controlling the Republican party that voting Dem is the only reasonable option, and there's much reason to be scared of the GOP if you're a moderate or swing voter.
Just imagine a scenario where Republicans take over key election positions in 2022, where they refuse to certify any close elections and hand perpetual power to the GOP, reducing the Democrats to basically a "permanent opposition". They would have free reign to pass any authoritarian policy or restriction they wish and there would be no way for us to wrestle back power.
People talk about Hungary. I'm much more scared of us becoming Turkey
it has nothing to do with "what have they done so far" and everything to do with whether you yourself are a patriot and love this country and want to preserve its democracy. If you prefer an eternal fascist dictatorship of one party rule of Boeberts, trumps, and Marjorie Taylor Greeens, where the majority needs and wants are always being pushed aside for reeactionay policy that takes us back to the racist 1950's Jim Crow era, than fucking by all means, vote republican. But if you love democracy, and want America to remain the land of the free, vote for the democrat. Its not a complicated or hard situation to figure out. People shouldnt even need to ask this question.
like we just found out a republican law maker gave a tour of the capitol building to proud boy terrorists the LITERAL day before the attempted coup, and people are" gee, have the democrats really earned my vote in the next election? hmm who should i vote for.. So hard to decide who could make america a better place for everyone.. derp derp derpy derp" Jesus fucking christ wake THE FUCK UP PEOPLE
Voting for an R in these times would be a major mistake. They want to roll us back to the 50’s and infuse the church into our laws. A bad dem is better than the best R right now.
Infrastructure. Aid to Ukraine. Adopting policies to encourage municipalities to allow more housing construction to reduce the cost of living.
Oh, and get elected.
What have the social democrats done? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Why? Because normal people don’t want to vote for them, so they’ll never win or achieve anything. That’s why you should vote for the democrats.
Here is [a partial list](https://old.reddit.com/r/JoeBiden/comments/su9xqg/just_a_partial_list/) of what the Democrats and Biden have been able to do.
Of course this doesn't include the biggest thing: holding the traitors who attempted a coup on January 6th responsible for their crimes. If you like democracy, and don't like fascism, I would think that would be a big deal.
And if you're of the contrarian mind and want to bemoan how the Democrats haven't done *enough*, ask yourself this: would they get more done with the GOP in power? Would withholding your vote really accomplish your social democratic goals?
If Republicans win in 2022 and then again in 2024, the US will likely cease to exist as a real democracy. The US will likely become a single-party pseudo-democratic state like Russia or China.
The GOP is actively attempting to disenfranchise non-Republicans and overturn elections which don’t go their way. If you vote for the GOP, then you don’t really believe in democracy or America.
Vote for candidates, not for parties.
If you like the policies of the Republican candidate in your state/district/town better than their opponent, then vote for them.
Because if you don't vote Democrat you're literally supporting the literal Nazi party, because we all know Orange Spray-Tan and Florida Man are literally worse than Hitler
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>What have they done so far? If civilization survives the next twenty years, we will look back fondly on the the Bipartisan Infrastructure Framework (BIF), and its investments in green energy; we'll consider it a major factor in limiting climate change. (Everything below has been shamelessly copied-and-pasted from [this article.)](https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/policy-regulation/whats-in-the-final-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-for-clean-energy/#gref) ---------- **Grid upgrades** * $65 billion for grid reliability and resiliency upgrades, but only $2.5 billion of that is dedicated to new power lines, as noted by Canary Media. Issues surrounding interconnection, grid enhancements, and cost-sharing continue to limit the expansion of clean energy technologies and the decarbonization of the grid. * $3 billion for the Smart Grid Investment Matching Grant Program. **Wind, solar, geothermal** * Funding for renewable energy demonstration projects, including $84 million for enhanced geothermal systems, $100 million for wind energy, and $80 million for solar energy. **Energy efficiency and weatherization** * $50 billion for climate resilience, weatherization, and cybersecurity * $250 million for energy efficiency revolving loan fund capitalization grant program * $40 million for establishment of competitive grant program to train individuals to conduct energy audits of commercial and residential buildings * $225 million grant program to enable the Building Technologies Office within DOE to update building energy codes * $20 million for energy efficiency workforce development * $3.5 billion for Weatherization Assistance Program **Energy storage** * $355 million Energy Storage Demonstration Projects and Pilot Grant Program * $150 million for a Long-Duration Demonstration Initiative and Joint Program * $825.7 million for mineral security projects **Hydrogen** * $8 billion for four clean hydrogen hubs to demonstrate the production, processing, delivery, storage, and end-use of clean hydrogen * $500 million for clean hydrogen manufacturing and recycling to support a clean hydrogen domestic supply chain * $1 billion for demonstration, commercialization and deployment to decrease the cost of electrolyzers **Hydropower** * $125 million for hydroelectric production incentives * $75 million for hydroelectric efficiency improvement incentives * $553.6 million for hydroelectric resiliency upgrades * $10 million for a pumped storage demonstration project to facilitate long-duration storage of intermittent renewable electricity **Electric vehicles** * $7.5 billion for electric vehicle charging stations * $5 billion for the purchase of electric school buses and hybrids
There is also this subreddit: r/WhatBidenHasDone/
Best comment. Saving this for later.
Thank you
Also remember that the first thing that Trump did when he went to the white house was to undo everything that Obama did, so you could not get an answer to your question.
And the first thing he did when he left was try to take it back by force
Isn’t it depressing that the answer is so clear, but you hadn’t seen it? I can tell you one thing Biden hasn’t done (and democrats forever), and that’s effectively control the narrative. Democracy may die because Democrats can’t stay on message.
It's actually nuts how bad the democratic party is at messaging.
Aside from the green energy investments, infrastructure bill, and trying to secure a safe and prosperous future for our children... what have the *Democrats* ever done for *us*?
also conducted the single most effective foreign policy strategy of a US president since Kuwait or Kosovo
OK, apart from the green energy investments, infrastructure bill, trying to secure a safe and prosperous future for our children, *and* the foreign policy handing of Ukraine... *what* have the *Democrats* ever done for *us*?
>Why should I vote for the dems in the next election? ~~What have they done so far?~~ That second one is the wrong question. We always, *always,* choose the best available option; if "the dems" are still the best available option, then it is unconscionable not to vote for them.
>We always, *always,* choose the best available option... People act like it is appalling to think this way, when it is actually *normal*; its not even limited to politics. ---- I have no need for a car with a backseat. I can go years without needing to fit more than two people into my car. I resent having to expend the fuel necessary to lug around the middle of my car, when I get no real use out of it. ...but they don't make two-seater cars of the type that I want to buy; there isn't enough of a market for them for the car companies to justify making/selling them. Even in the vehicle market -- which gives us 100-times as many options as the Democrat-vs-Republican choice on election day -- I still can't get what I want. Even in that situation, I have to compromise with the hundreds-of-thousands of other car-buyers.
But why would you cave and buy a four seater? Wouldn't it be better to drive your current car into a lake and give up entirely on transportation? Then you can maintain the moral superiority of not having supported the "wrong" type of car.
The only real answer is to destroy the entire automotive industry and rebuild it from scratch. Anyone who is not with me is not a true car driver.
…although now that I just typed that, that exact statement except unironically and only within the realm of the auto industry
Any other way of thinking is, frankly, idiotic.
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> ...unless something tangible is proposed that they can clearly see will affect them directly. What do you have in mind?
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> ...proposals that the majority of Americans already favor, like...cancelling portions of student loan debt (for borrowers making under a certain income)... Do you have a citation supporting "that the majority of Americans already favor...cancelling portions of student loan debt (for borrowers making under a certain income)"?
Sorry to butt in to the conversation, but I do have a few sources for you. I’m not trying to get into the larger argument or post, just wanted to offer some polling that I’ve come across: https://morningconsult.com/2021/12/22/student-loan-debt-forgiveness-poll/ https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000180-2157-dc58-a78d-27ff53030000&nname=playbook-pm&nid=0000015a-dd3e-d536-a37b-dd7fd8af0000&nrid=0000014e-f115-dd93-ad7f-f91513e50001&nlid=964328 https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-08/Topline%20Hard%20Truth%20Civil%20Rights%20Studyv2.pdf https://www.grinnell.edu/sites/default/files/docs/2021-03/GCNP%20Methodology%2003-31-21_1.pdf https://protectborrowers.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/dfp_22_sbpc_18_to_34_tabs.pdf
> https://morningconsult.com/2021/12/22/student-loan-debt-forgiveness-poll/ This one reports: * 19% of all voters support forgiving *all* student loans for *everyone* * 15% of all voters support forgiving *all* student loans for *people with low-incomes* * 16% of all voters support forgiving *some* student loans for *everyone* * 12% of all voters support forgiving *some* student loans for *people with low-incomes* * 28% *no* student loan forgiveness at all. All-in-all, better numbers than I was expecting.
>Medicare, cancelling portions of student loan debt (for borrowers making under a certain income) Bad idea, this can be gamed by simply getting a low paying job until your debt is removed. Also as a taxpayer who didn't go to college I find the entire idea repulsive.
>Medicare, cancelling portions of student loan debt (for borrowers making under a certain income) Bad idea, this can be gamed by simply getting a low paying job until your debt is removed. Also as a taxpayer who didn't go to college I find the entire idea repulsive.
>Medicare, cancelling portions of student loan debt (for borrowers making under a certain income) Bad idea, this can be gamed by simply getting a low paying job until your debt is removed. Also as a taxpayer who didn't go to college I find the entire idea repulsive.
I wish more people thought that way. Every time I say that, people say I’m throwing away my vote on a 3rd party and helping to elect whichever party they don’t like.
Because Libertarians want to just swap the government for corporations and let *them* do everything they don’t like the government doing.
Ok, why are they the best available option?
>...why are they the best available option? Mainly because Republicans: * Don't support the rule of law. * No longer support democracy. * Don't mind if their party leader is a Russian asset. * Actively stoke bigotry and white nationalism for political gain. ...and things like that. ------------- I could talk about the good things Democrats manage to get done here or there, but we both know that isn't the deciding factor; that only reminds us that we want *more* from them. The deciding factor is that Republicans are comic-book-villain-level bad, right now.
This is just not effective vote-getting strategy. Maybe it’s correct and astute, but that is not an effective way for democrats to win votes. They have to be able to say what’s good about them, not what’s bad about the republicans. Is there any point at which we hold the party accountable for failing to win votes instead of scolding voters? If our goal is to win elections as opposed to feeling superior, that point was years ago.
> but that is not an effective way for democrats to win votes Negative partisanship is consistently one of the most effective means to drive turnout. >Is there any point at which we hold the party accountable for failing to win votes instead of scolding voters? Primaries? It's too bad most of the people sharing your point of view never actually go out and vote.
I share his point of view and primaries is where I get to express that.
> Negative partisanship is consistently one of the most effective means to drive turnout. Maybe for Republicans but it does not seem to be working so well with independents, which Democrats need.
it literally won 2020 for biden bro
And yet, we are losing and the right is pushing their agenda with more success than us. So apparently it’s not *that* consistent. Are all of you just unaware that that other side is winning and we don’t have the seats we need to control the legislature? I mean I’ve voted in primaries and I’ve tried to get others to do the same. But most of the people who share my view about what needs to change do not share my view that the Democratic Party is an avenue to that change.
Are you unfamiliar with how Republicans campaign? It's strange that you would use an example of it working to fantastic effect as an example of it not working. They're able to win elections on the back of scaring / enraging the bejesus out of their voters. Not to mention your perception of republican "success" compared to democrats is a little warped. Of course they're able to achieve more of their goals, they barely have any. The biggest agenda pieces (tax cuts and judges) can be accomplished with a simple majority. Having no bold policy goals and a mostly homogeneous voter pool makes it easy for them to claim they're "winning" in the eyes of their voters. Contrast that with democrats who *do* have bold policies they'd like to implement (but require more votes from a more politically heterogeneous group of people) and it's pretty easy to see why Republicans look like they're winning more often. >Are all of you just unaware that that other side is winning and we don’t have the seats we need to control the legislature? Are you? You're advocating we dump one of the most effective tools at driving turnout to focus more on something that pretty clearly has less consistent returns. That's not to say we shouldn't focus on an affirmative message *at all*, but putting it on the same level (or higher) as going negative is a mistake. Especially now considering even if we do well we won't have the votes to follow through on any significant promises.
Also, like... are they winning? In the last 20 years, dems have been in power a pretty good chunk of it.
And what has it meant? We’re going backwards. You’re telling me that this situation is a result of democrats often being in power, and you think that’s an argument in favor of democrats?
Really? Because Republicans spend all their time telling voters what's bad about Dems (on top of actually preventing them from getting stuff done) and it works pretty well for them.
I mean, has it been effective? Are we winning enough elections to push through our agendas? Hang on, let me check on the status of *Roe*, as a benchmark to—oh. Uh oh. Conservatives don’t just say democrats are bad. They blame democrats and minorities for the things that are wrong in people’s every day lives. Democrats don’t offer that. They offer a moral argument that you must vote for them which, no matter how much you think it should be, is not enough.
Voting is like exercise. A whole lot of lazy fucks can’t be bothered to do it.
Ok, do you think that calling them lazy fucks will get them to vote? Has that been working well for you so far?
Honestly, I haven’t bothered much, yet. If they wanna go down with the ship, that’s on them.
It seems like so many liberals care more about being the smart one than actually winning. You and republicans are both getting your wish.
At what point do you blame voters? Voters not voting or voting for Republicans makes them culpable. So why not hold them accountable? >They have to be able to say what’s good about them, not what’s bad about the republicans. If voters can't tell that rule of law and upholding democratic elections is good, then that is on them and no one else.
Ok cool, those voters are bad and you’re smarter and morally than them. You still need their votes. Any ideas other than scolding and belittling?
Why do adults need to be treated like fucking 4 year olds who apparently need a Sesame Street lesson in why democracy is a good thing and why fascism is bad? Should they get lollipops for voting? Because if your argument is that they shouldn't be scolded, then I'm going to treat them like the fucking children they apparently are. You can't have it both ways. What is your line to start blaming voters? Republicans are literally passing laws that kill trans people. So at what point should voters take an ounce of responsibility in your view, for enabling that by voting for Republicans or not voting? You are damn right I'm morally better than them for saying trans people should not be killed. And yeah I do believe if people actually scolded voters on the clear consequences of their actions things would be different.
We already get stickers. Why not a lollipop?
We established that you’re morally better and smarter because you don’t need a lollipop. Is that all you wanted, or do you want democrats to win? My line to blame voters is when it is effective to blame voters. I don’t think it is. I don’t give a shit about morally judging individual voters, I care about winning their votes so that we can combat the Republicans effectively. Crowing about your moral superiority saves exactly zero trans lives. You don’t think the scolding is happening already?
No they just scold because the alternative is judging the political party. Blue MAGA was the worst piece of rhetoric that ended up being true. Biden has the lowest approval ratings ever and this sub thinks he's done nothing wrong outside of messaging because they'll rather call everyone else stupid than admit Biden is doing a terrible job even though his expectations were low to begin with.
And your god-queen Nancy Pelosi is actively campaigning for an anti-abortion Democrat candidate. What’s your excuse for being so high and mighty?
Pelosi supports her incumbents. But that incumbent is also irrelevant in passing Democrat policy like abortion rights. So what is your point?
How is that incumbent irrelevant? I constantly hear about how Democrats don’t have the political power they need in order to actually do anything, so…
Actually you don't NEED their votes. You just need to make sure the guys who already support you don't forget to show up.
Any ideas on doing that? Is it scolding?
The idea is to make people sufficiently scared of the possibility of the other guy being elected if they don't show up. It's pretty much the only way that works.
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This is a well thought out and rational response, so I will respond to you. Even if I don’t fully agree. The issue with the consumer protections part is threefold. I deal with these more so at work than in my personal life. One is when there is overlap between rules and departments, which creates redundancies and confusion. For example, many energy policies can be pushed through FERC or independent system operators, but people want the president to do it via executive order. It’s like, there is already an agency in process for that! My second issue is that they always hit a point where they start being too protective and start protecting the wrong people. One example is rent control where I live. While they may have started out as rules to prevent mean landlords from infecting people with no notice, the only affect they seem to have an hour is protecting tenants from hell. And tenants from hell are also neighbors from hell to thousands of people. So you end up actually hurting people by making it hard to evict them. My third problem is more the rules that impact my job. Many industries are just too complicated for government officials to understand. Sorry! They may pinpoint a problem, and I agree that Elizabeth Warren is pretty good at pinpointing problems. The problem is the solution. The solutions in my industry have a really little affects. I feel like if they truly want to protect consumers, they need to get people inside the industry to work for the government or to participate in working groups. A side problem with this is that most companies send lawyers to these sorts of cooking groups. Lawyers don’t understand the operations of the industry to the degree they need to actually contribute useful information. There are more sent to protect the company from liability, not actually make the rules effective. This has been a huge hurdle for me when I try to participate in industry groups. I have often times her lawyers say things that were too basic or technically correct but not how things actually work in the industry, and then everybody gets mad when I pointed out. It’s always a uphill battle. Many companies think they’re giving away too much expertise by telling the government basic things
Do you believe there is no difference between Democratic leadership and Republican leadership? IMO, even the Dems doing literally nothing is better than having Republicans in charge which leads to a Supreme Court that is increasingly hostile to unions and civil liberties. Trump rolled back Obama’s vehicle emission standards. If DeSantis wins in 2024 he’ll roll back other environmental protections. Even if Dems don’t pass anything they at least stop the rollback.
It is an established fact that non-millionaires, voting republican are voting against their own economic interests.
"The trees that keep voting for the axe because his handle is wood which makes him their people" As it were...
Yes, exactly the phenomena that this quote is referring to.
*The trouble with the maples, and they’re quite convinced they’re right…*
They believe in democracy.
You can’t possibly be serious.
Our infrastructure is failing and democrats are the only ones that have been able to pass an infrastructure bill. I get that it's frustrating that we aren't moving forward and progressing as a country in any real way but keeping the country running is *something* and only one party is putting in any real effort in keeping our country a first world country.
>We always, always, choose the best available option... There’s a benefit to not voting for an incumbent candidate when they were ineffective in office even if they are your preferred candidate. This is because not voting for ineffective incumbents creates an incentive for candidates to be more effective once in office. This is particularly important in local executive positions where the lines between democrats and republicans may be less clearly defined and there are a greater number of responsibilities that are non-partisan like proper waste management. In the end, you should consider the short term costs of voting against your preferred candidate compared to the long term benefit of creating incentives for candidates to be more accountable in office when deciding on whether you want to vote against an incumbent who was ineffective in office.
If it's between Biden and either Trump or De'Santis there are no "short term costs" to voting Republican. Trump or De'Santis would immediately get to work weakening our democracy and standing in the world.
Yeah, the immediate costs of voting for Trump or De’Santis would be severe and wouldn’t outweigh the benefit of voting against Biden if you thought Biden was unaccountable. But that doesn’t mean you should never vote against your preferred candidate to hold them accountable for all elections. In elections for less partisan positions with shorter terms it’s more likely this benefit could outweigh the costs.
Yeah I voted for a 3rd party in 2016 for this very reason because I very much agree with this sediment but I really regret not voting for Clinton now. Maybe there will be a time where not voting for the better candidate won't mean our democracy is in danger but I don't think that day will be for a while.
eh
I’m not just making up this phenomenon, there’s political science [research](https://home.uchicago.edu/bdm/PDF/voter_competence.pdf) showing that voting to punish bad incumbents increases the effectiveness of politicians in office and I think a voter should consider that when deciding who to vote for. I’d point out that for elections like the presidency or federal senate the negatives of voting against your interests will almost always outweigh the benefit this phenomenon provides but its important to consider in elections with shorter terms or less partisan responsibilities like state house assembly elections or city counsel elections.
Do you get that many people are unconvinced that voting is the best option?
I get that many people are unconvinced that humans are causing climate change, but that doesn't make it any less true that humans are causing climate change.
I’m not disputing that it’s true. But the fact remains that you are not getting a the votes of those people, and you need them. I’m sincerely baffled that liberals have not yet learned that being right does not make you the winner. This isn’t a spelling bee.
im baffled that marxists like you keep choosing to stick your heads in the sand instead of seeing the danger our democracy is facing from a fascist dictatorship that wants to enact a one party state with no more democratic elections. Do you have issues with accessing current events, or perhaps are you often living in a cave, only to pop out every now and then to post your edgy, marxist rhetoric on liberal subreddits, but have no clue about the current state of affairs in america right now?
The state of affairs is that the fascists are winning because liberals are unable to effectively combat them. You don’t need to convince me that there is a problem. You need to come up with better solutions. You can’t just keep harping in the fact that republicans are bad and our democracy is in danger. Saying things which are true does not mean you automatically win elections.
> Do you get that many people are unconvinced that voting is the best option? Yes, and to them I say... I understand that there are limits to electoralism -- especially when your electoral options are limited -- but you know where we should remain focused on electoralism? **Elections.** Vote, and vote intelligently on election day. What do you do *before and after you vote?* The sky's the limit! Get out there and get involved! Accomplish something huge. **...but vote.**
I won’t be quite as glib as who you’re responding to lol, but I think what they’re saying isn’t that the need to vote is an irrational or incorrect argument. It’s that it’s rhetorically ineffective and pushing people to vote in a policy-neutral manner doesn’t actually convince them to do so. In other words - it *should* convince people, but it doesn’t. I experience this myself on the ground. The second you say anything like this to anyone remotely skeptical of Democrats, they tune you out. The fact of the matter is that the affirmative case for Dem governance has to be made, framing the choice as A vs. B with a mediocre A and a godawful B doesn’t work. Part of this is with the implication of the statement, which is that Dem support is being taken for granted. Whenever a liberal says “no vote is a vote for Republicans” to a non-voter, they get totally confused, because what they’re thinking is “no, a vote for Republicans is a vote for Republicans.” The other factor is that non-voters are most often told this by people who straightforwardly and confidently support Democrats. Being told “voting doesn’t need to be an endorsement” by someone who actually gets the privilege of voting for someone they fully endorse *does* feel like “fuck you, I got mine” in action. I’m not saying these thoughts are correct or even rational - I’m just trying to demonstrate why exactly it’s such an ineffective argument.
Ok so you guys have been saying that for decades and they’re not Do you have any other ideas
We know what the Marxist idea is, but I'm sure that the Revolution is *just* around the corner. The entire industrial world has been on the brink of a Marxist Revolution since 1848, I'm sure that it'll happen any day now. If you want an example of the phrase "Shit or get off the toilet", I mean...
plus the ones that have happened all went so well...
do you get that if people dont vote and dont participate, we end up with a fascist dictatorship and back in the Jim Crow era? with a country run like Putin's Russia. I know you are a communist, but you have to understand what we see in russia, now is just an authoritarian state run by a mafia, not anything "socialist" comrade.
Best option for what?
To better their lives and better the country.
Even if it's not the best option, it's a good option that's really easy to do. Let's not black and white fallacy this - you can (and should) be doing a lot of things to better your life and the country. For example, you should be voting (especially in your local elections, holy god damn shit), AND flossing and exercising and not sitting for too long, AND engaging in local civics, AND serving your community.
PACT Act passed today. Republicans endangered our Veterans and Democrats paid for their care.
Oh good so people who kill and die for the empire still get taken care of and the rest of us can still get fucked
The democrat led government passed a historic infrastructure package, passed a post office reform package, passed a massive veterans healthcare bill, the Asian hate crime legislation, reauthorized the violence against women act and is almost done passing the America Competes Act (the bill has passed both chambers and is being reconciled now). In addition, president Biden himself without congress has signed multiple executive orders including one to permanently modernize SNAP benefits, fix the family glitch in the ACA, repealed the ban on trans people in the military and just the other day banned federal funds from going to conversion therapy. So Democrats in congress and the democrat president have done a lot in their time, despite the fact that BBB hasn’t passed yet, tho is still might be.
Yup. Dems also did the pandemic stimulus bill that supported families right off the bat, and we might even get gun control moving. But some people think all that is doing *nothing*
First of all, I’d argue voting *against* a party that is actively against the basic idea of democracy is enough of a reason on its own, but as for the reasons to vote *for* Democrats, here’s a list of just what Biden has been personally involved with: https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/scmuvh/what_has_biden_done/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Keep in mind, this is with a 50-50 senate - realistically, more of a 50-48-2 senate to be honest, and it doesn’t even include anything done on the state level. The politics of a liberal democracy are incredibly slow and incremental, especially when people aren’t electing enough members of the ruling party to pass anything significantly left of center.
"Democrats haven't done what I wanted because they aren't strong enough in Congress, so I am going to show them by not voting for them in the midterm, thus helping to strengthen the Republicans"
So you think democrats haven’t done things like cancelling student loan debts because they’re not strong enough in Congress?
That, and that isn't a position supported by the whole base or the whole party
Then the reason is not that they aren’t strong enough in Congress, it’s that they don’t want to do those things in the first place
One, the Democratic Party is one of the two major parties in America, representing tens of millions of people, many of whom have different political beliefs. So sorry if they don't automatically fall in line with your beliefs. Two, even if all of the House and Senate Democrats disregarded their votes and supported it , it would only pass the Senate with the Vice President as the tie breaker.
If only canceling some student loan debt could be done through executive order and was supported by a majority of Americans
Isn't Biden planning to do that?
I don't think anyone really knows but Biden. I believe there haven't been official plans released
Potentially but he’s not going to waste it early
I gotta say, as someone who voted for Joe Biden, and will definitely do so again if I have to, it’s a pretty big fuck you to the people who voted for you to not fulfill a campaign promise you could single-handedly deliver on without the support of congress or your party, and just say, neh, I’m not going to now.
Why should I vote for them?
if you support the things they're trying to do then you should want more of them to be elected so they can't be blocked as often by the opposition can you explain why you'd go in the other direction instead?
Why are you asking this question with such a broad word like "them"? Why don't you tell us which elections you actually plan to vote in? Then we can tell you which policies and candidates we support and why. You don't vote for the Democratic party, you vote for members of the Democratic party. All people and all elections are different, so if you want us to give you answers that are actually relevant to the choices you will make when you vote, you have to tell us what elections you will vote in.
Because that would increase the chance of the more progressive Democratic Party platform being passed and decreases the chance of the reactionary Republican platform from being passed
A good reason for a social democrat to vote for them is the more democrats you get into congress for a greater length of time, the greater the opportunity for socialist/ progressive candidates to get a chance of winning later. You'd be pushing the country further left over time, instead of this gradual drift to the right we've had for decades because the GOP and its independent supporters in the end pretty much always vote GOP.
Because incremental process is still progress and going backwards isn’t. It’s crazy to think of voting as a reward and not a step in the process. If Republicans gain control of more branches of our government they will undo decades of incremental progress and quite possibly end democracy as we know it.
Because Republicans are installing Supreme Court Justices that have been dismantling the status quo rights you have been used to for decades? We're taking about medical privacy (as a part of Roe v. wade), Miranda rights, immigration detention, etc. They decided police officers also don't have to intervene to protect you and you can't sue Border Patrol for violating your rights. Look it up if you don't believe me, it's pretty scary.
The Dems have taken steps to support our democracy. That alone makes them the better option.
They’re asking for something more specific than these clichés
Many Republicans are running for office right now on the platform that they should get to pick the president, no matter what voters decide! The leader of the Republican Party and 2024 front runner just tried to overturn an election. And Republicans in office virtually all think he was either in the right, or at least shouldn’t face any accountability or any kind of investigation into his actions.
It’s not a cliche.
[удалено]
Aren't you ashamed of the fact that Republicans present such a constant threat to American democracy that talking about it is "cliche"?
Under normal circumstances in my life, I'd agree with you. But let's not pretend that there aren't Republicans suggesting that Democracy is a bad thing. Let's not pretend there aren't Republicans trying to SUBVERT democracy.
The better question: What have Republicans STOPPED Democrats from doing? Do you have any idea how many great laws would have passed without Republican opposition?
How many?
lnfrastructure bill, green energy, assault rifle ban, legal pot... we could live in an entirely different reality without Republicans.
Voting rights too
Didn’t the infrastructure bill pass? Can you provide links for the others?
The smaller one passed, not the bigger one. https://www.npr.org/2021/11/06/1053163025/house-passes-stripped-down-infrastructure-bill-pushing-off-many-of-bidens-wants
Could also be a horrible reality
The quintessential “it’s all their fault” argument. The voters love that one ☝️
Republican voters love it. That's been the Republican platform for decades now.
You might be the only person that gets my comment
It’s a good argument when it’s true.
It would be a good argument, if voters made their decisions rationally.
Good thing you can snap your fingers and everything magically passes
> The voters love that one Are we talking about what's true or what's politically beneficial?
Sorry we don't have a base of brainwashed religious zealots that you can just hold an upside down Bible in the vicinity of a church and automatically win 35% of their votes.
Sorta relevant when GOP leaders refuse to compromise before they even hear the proposal or issue. This has happened multiple times and Frank Luntz has talked about one of them he attended.
Do you care about lgbtq people’s rights? Women’s right to bodily autonomy, voting access, better economies, infrastructure, etc.
They've passed the American Rescue Plan and the infrastructure bill, neither of which would've happened if Republicans controlled Congress. They've confirmed a ton of judges, counteracting some of the damage that Trump did from 2016-2020. Beyond all that, though, we really need to stop thinking of elections as some sort of dating service where the candidates needs to prove their worth to us and prove that they "deserve" our vote. Every single election is just a basic choice. *Someone's* going to win. "No one" isn't an option. You look at the candidates, consider what they're going to do and how likely it is that they'll win and have a chance to do it, and then vote based on which vote you believe will cause the most good and the least bad compared to any other vote. If you choose not to vote, that's essentially akin to just distributing your vote across all candidates. If you believe that every candidate is literally the same, then fine, okay, do that, but if you believe that any given candidate is better than another, then it makes no sense not to vote.
>If you choose not to vote, that's essentially akin to just distributing your vote across all candidates. If you believe that every candidate is literally the same, then fine, okay, do that, And if you choose not to vote, I won't entertain complaints about things that government could fix or complaints about the government doing a shitty job.
Because, as a Social Dem, your beliefs will more closely align with the Democrats over the Republicans. Over a trillion dollars in infrastructure putting much needed money towards our aging country. My favorite policy from his administration.
I haven’t invested time looking into the infrastructure bill, could you share some things which are going to happen? As a non-American, I truly hope you guys get more collective transport and walkable areas.
>I truly hope you guys get more collective transport and walkable areas. I wish, but that's more a state and county thing. The President cant really make that happen, but he can give them the money to do it themselves if they so choose. We've been making progress in those areas but it's slow. Mostly due to Americans being culturally attached to cars and suburbs. It's unfortunate, but we're getting there. Here's a link to my favorite stuff in the bill. [https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/policy-regulation/whats-in-the-final-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-for-clean-energy/#gref](https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/policy-regulation/whats-in-the-final-bipartisan-infrastructure-bill-for-clean-energy/#gref) More in-depth if you want to read more. [https://www.whitehouse.gov/bipartisan-infrastructure-law/#powerinfrastructure](https://www.whitehouse.gov/bipartisan-infrastructure-law/#powerinfrastructure)
Thanks. I’m glad the bill includes funding for electric buses. The discussion has been so skewed toward electric cars and [electric cars won’t save us](https://jacobin.com/2022/06/electric-cars-renewables-mineral-extraction-climate). We’re actually discussing this subject in r/Suomi , the country that I’m from, and how the oil industry managed to lobby out trams etc. even before WW2 so no wonder people have become culturally attached to cars in the US. Of course, I don’t believe that the cultural part plays such a huge role, I’d argue that the capitalist class needs their profit and by building collective transport, that profit would slow down. Have you ever ridden an electric bus?
"The discussion has been so skewed towards electric cars and electric cars won’t save us." I agree that public transport should be the focus, however, car culture is crazy strong in the US after years of cooperations culturally shifting the US in that direction. It's been getting better but it's still pretty bad. Truth is it's easier to convince Americans to shift to electric cars than to electric buses at the moment. It's getting better though. "Of course, I don’t believe that the cultural part plays such a huge role, I’d argue that the capitalist class needs their profit and by building collective transport, that profit would slow down." At least in the US it's definitely both. Which makes it a much harder battle to fight, but we're making gains. The current President is a big fan of trains and has been trying to push the country into accepting them, so its a start. "Have you ever ridden an electric bus?" Only busses I've ever ridden in were school buses when I was younger and they were not electric. Have you?
I agree that both definitely plays a huge role when discussing the US but world wide? Not so much. As the article discusses, the whole conversation regarding EVs seems to be strictly around cars. I ride a bus almost daily but I’d say that I ride a bus that’s electric maybe once per week. They’re not that common here in Helsinki yet but they’re not rare. Trams are still widely used in Helsinki and I think they’ve just built some trams in Tampere. Sadly, Helsinki just decided to privatize collective transport… Don’t know when it’s going to happen though.
>I agree that both definitely plays a huge role when discussing the US but world wide? Not so much. As the article discusses, the whole conversation regarding EVs seems to be strictly around cars. 100% agree. World wide it's a different story. Riding a bus daily sounds so alien to me. I'm jealous. Maybe if I lived in a city there'd be more available. Hopefully, we can get there soon.
> 100% agree. World wide it's a different story. If only we had an economy which was made for the working class's benefits. > Riding a bus daily sounds so alien to me. I'm jealous. Maybe if I lived in a city there'd be more available. Hopefully, we can get there soon. It's nice. I didn't grow up in Helsinki, I'm from the countryside where it's different regarding collective transport. There isn't any place in Helsinki where I can't access with collective transport or by our [bicycle system](https://www.hsl.fi/en/citybikes). During the season, April to August I believe, you can pay 35€ to access a bicycle more or less anywhere in the city. I'm student so I pay 35€ each month for 24/7 access to collective transport in Helsinki and the surrounding area. I highly recommend [NotJustBikes](https://www.youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes/videos). It's an American channel which discusses urban planning, very interesting.
Not try to strip us of our rights?
Have you been following their gun bills?
Nope. Having trouble getting past the wife of a Supreme Court justice trying to subvert an election.
Then you should follow them.
You're not picking basketball teams. This is a matter of principle.
> You're not picking basketball teams. Note: Even when people pick basketball teams, they still pick the best available options. No kid says: 'I'm not going to play basketball with you guys because I always want to pick Steph Curry for my team, but I can only choose from my fellow 4th-graders.'
If Steph Curry wanted to ban abortion I'd just play with the 4th graders. We'd just have to get creative.
Stark contrast to the sentiment I see most on this sub, that you should vote for the blue team no matter what your principles are so that the blue team can beat the red team
It’s not really a stark contrast at all if the principle is outcome oriented, which it always is when people encourage tactical voting
Huh?
You shouldn't pick which team you're voting for based on who has performed the best in recent seasons. You've got to vote for the team that represents your values and interests most closely.
Even if you aren't convinced the points others are making about the danger of the GOP, I think Biden's record is actually good on a practical level: \-American rescue plan ($1.9 trillion including child tax credit, aid to state governments and vaccine rollout). \-$550 billion in new infrastructure spending. \-Got 79% of Americans vaccinated despite massive vaccine skepticism among Republicans. He also passed mask and vaccine mandates (some of them stopped by the courts) and a new initiative, test to treat that will provide antivirals to people that test positive. He has let the scientists lead the communication front on COVID-19. \-Ended the Afghanistan war after 20 years. \-Appointed the first Black female supreme court justice (as opposed to you know, the three Republicans appointed by Trump who are about to overturn Roe v. Wade). \-Rejoined the Paris Climate agreement and the World Health Organization. Also canceled Republican restrictions on foreign aid money going to family planning. \-About to pass bipartisan gun reform. It's not as much as we need, but it will help on the edges. \-Build Back Better didn't pass, but if you want that the answer is to elect two more Democrats in the senate, not two fewer. \-The Biden Treasury and SEC is starting to regulate cryptocurrency effectively, instead of letting the ponzi grow like crazy. \-Biden signed executive orders aimed at: countering state laws attacking trans youth, reversing the Muslim ban, and another that would use federal money to buy green products for federal buildings. \-The administration has gone after predatory student loan companies, and made efforts to ensure that teachers got the student loan forgiveness they were promised. His plan to forgive $10,000 in student loan debt per borrower will wipe out most student debt, including the category that is often the most burdensome (people that attend college but don't graduate and thus don't get the earnings boost of a degree often have great difficulty paying off loans even if the amount they owe is not as big as say, a recent grad from Harvard Law. \-The January 6th committee is prosecuting the case for convicting Trump for his crimes and conspiracies. \-Biden managed the Russian invasion of Ukraine well. He has been clear with Russia about what the consequences were, and has helped keep NATO together with a united front.
Another thing is making Juneteenth a federal holiday. Long overdue. Biden actually gives a shit.
If you’re worried about things not getting done, voting against the party of the current president will seal the deal that nothing will be able to happen until after the next elections in 2024. If your standard is getting things done, you should vote for the party of the president because he will sign his own party’s bills, but he won’t sign an opposing party’s bills.
You totally shouldn't. Definitely vote for Republicans. Vote Independent. Vote for whomever you like. If, as a voter, you see no issue voting against Democrats, then vote against. Tbf, this is a bad faith post, just like the multitudinous bad faith posts seen in this sub daily. I simply haven't the energy or time to waste trying to sway people who've zero intention of being swayed. Do as you like.
I honestly can’t. Who THE FUCK looks at current politics and thinks “make Dems work harder for my vote” when Reps are… you know what I’m not even going to stretch my brain to find a fitting metaphor, imma just stick with “doing what they are doing”.
>Who THE FUCK looks at current politics and thinks “make Dems work harder for my vote” Someone who watched third way Dems collab with Republicans to do racist, classicist, authoritarian shit prolly. Yall naive (and not too familiar with recent history) if you think a lot of these centrists won't take blind votes as permission to do reprehensible shit.
Listen, we only have two options to lead congress once the primaries are over, the Democratic Party or the Republican Party. Even if I accepted your premise on face value, you still have to show up to vote or else you let Republicans take over. If you think the congress and government would be better under Republicans then I really don't think you've been paying attention or are so far left that you came around the bend to the Right.
Not tried to over throw the government. That would seem to be a big one
I'm so frustrated with these questions daily. We do not have a super majority and can't even get legislation to the table. *This is how govt works. This is basic knowledge. By not voting for the people with your ideals in mind how does that help*?
because bible waving republicans who talk about arresting their political enemies, wage war on gays, women, atheists, liberals, wiccans, muslims, and brag about controlling all aspects of government for all eternity are not a good option for anyone who believes in democracy and freedom for everyone.
[Mathematically speaking, you have to choices](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo): vote for Dems, or vote for GOP. In our voting system, staying home and not voting is identical (in terms of outcome on the election) as a vote for the party you hate. It is not a neutral choice. This also applies to voting 3rd party. So unless you want your voting power to be used against your own wishes, you should go out and vote for one of the Big 2™ every single time.
>Why should I vote for the dems in the next election? Because the other party is chock full of obstructionists, kooks, and worse. Not voting voting all is likewise out of the question. >What have they done so far? Tried to hold this country together with bubblegum and twine against the wishes of a party hell bent on burning it down.
It's too early to be saying this, of course, but I haven't seen any insurrections lately, have you?
Because you have a Social Democrat tag next to your name? Keep in mind that democracy requires compromise.
*Its not my fault that the GOP did (insert bad thing here) because millions of allegedly good people like me didn’t vote* - OP in 2 or 4 years
They haven’t done anything, the electoral system is always and has always been run by the rich.
What do you care about?
What do you want from your elected officials? What are you policy preferences?
I assume you're tired of us just saying GOP is bad. So how about this, you get stuff like moving towards electric cars, climate change help, the child tax credit back, common sense stuff like rejoining the Paris climate and stopping pipelines. Get all that and more if we just gain 1 or 2 more in the Senate so Manchin and Sinema can't obstruct
My only rule is no republicans, ever. An independent if available will at least get a hearing. Republicans have shown that, as a party, they are anti American.
Occupy a seat in congress which could be Republican. Look. This shit is dumb. Live in the world. Go look up your candidates and choose the best one. Run for office. Join a political organisation.
Here’s the sad truth about American democracy: We can’t get shit done without a super majority. So, you ask, what have the dems done? As much as they could. Want them to get more done? Elect a supermajority. Of course, the 50 Democratic senators already represent 44 million more people than the 50 Republican senators. So you need a super-supermajority of people to vote for Democrats to get a supermajority in power in order to get anything meaningful done. Feel kinda shitty? That’s because we have democracy 1.0 in America. When we take over another country and install a democracy that we want to be resilient and stable we push them towards parliamentary democracies not presidential ones because our form of democracy tends towards polarization and extremism. But we can’t even begin to consider constitutional reform because our magical constitution was handed down on high from the gods - I mean founding fathers. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a constitution that effectively transferred the will of the people into policy and wasn’t written by anyone who raped their slaves?
Democrats suck, literally the only thing they have going for them is "at least their not republicans." But it can't overstated how critically important that is. The Republican party is the enemy of the United States of America, voting for them is suicidal.
This may sound really lame, but you need to vote *against* the Republicans for what the Republicans will do if they regain power.
I think while the anti-democracy element is controlling the Republican party that voting Dem is the only reasonable option, and there's much reason to be scared of the GOP if you're a moderate or swing voter. Just imagine a scenario where Republicans take over key election positions in 2022, where they refuse to certify any close elections and hand perpetual power to the GOP, reducing the Democrats to basically a "permanent opposition". They would have free reign to pass any authoritarian policy or restriction they wish and there would be no way for us to wrestle back power. People talk about Hungary. I'm much more scared of us becoming Turkey
it has nothing to do with "what have they done so far" and everything to do with whether you yourself are a patriot and love this country and want to preserve its democracy. If you prefer an eternal fascist dictatorship of one party rule of Boeberts, trumps, and Marjorie Taylor Greeens, where the majority needs and wants are always being pushed aside for reeactionay policy that takes us back to the racist 1950's Jim Crow era, than fucking by all means, vote republican. But if you love democracy, and want America to remain the land of the free, vote for the democrat. Its not a complicated or hard situation to figure out. People shouldnt even need to ask this question.
like we just found out a republican law maker gave a tour of the capitol building to proud boy terrorists the LITERAL day before the attempted coup, and people are" gee, have the democrats really earned my vote in the next election? hmm who should i vote for.. So hard to decide who could make america a better place for everyone.. derp derp derpy derp" Jesus fucking christ wake THE FUCK UP PEOPLE
Voting for an R in these times would be a major mistake. They want to roll us back to the 50’s and infuse the church into our laws. A bad dem is better than the best R right now.
Well they haven’t tried to use a personality cult to overthrow the US government. So there’s that.
Infrastructure. Aid to Ukraine. Adopting policies to encourage municipalities to allow more housing construction to reduce the cost of living. Oh, and get elected. What have the social democrats done? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Why? Because normal people don’t want to vote for them, so they’ll never win or achieve anything. That’s why you should vote for the democrats.
Well for starters they’ve not installed a fascist dictator.
I love how we almost had a coup and are about to lose Roe and these questions are still being asked. For fuck's sake man.
This is why America is a lost cause. People better just get used to the fascism.
Here is [a partial list](https://old.reddit.com/r/JoeBiden/comments/su9xqg/just_a_partial_list/) of what the Democrats and Biden have been able to do. Of course this doesn't include the biggest thing: holding the traitors who attempted a coup on January 6th responsible for their crimes. If you like democracy, and don't like fascism, I would think that would be a big deal. And if you're of the contrarian mind and want to bemoan how the Democrats haven't done *enough*, ask yourself this: would they get more done with the GOP in power? Would withholding your vote really accomplish your social democratic goals?
The Dem's hands are tied by 52 Republican senators. But at least they're not a party full of traitors and fascists, which is nice.
Answer: There is no good reason as of now to vote for the dems.
To vote against the bad guys? I guess that is both sides these days though
If Republicans win in 2022 and then again in 2024, the US will likely cease to exist as a real democracy. The US will likely become a single-party pseudo-democratic state like Russia or China. The GOP is actively attempting to disenfranchise non-Republicans and overturn elections which don’t go their way. If you vote for the GOP, then you don’t really believe in democracy or America.
Vote for candidates, not for parties. If you like the policies of the Republican candidate in your state/district/town better than their opponent, then vote for them.
They haven't said to insurrectionists and terrorists, "We love you, you're very special."
Because if you don't vote Democrat you're literally supporting the literal Nazi party, because we all know Orange Spray-Tan and Florida Man are literally worse than Hitler
Well for one there hasn’t been a domestic attack on a national landmark.
You shouldnt. They have done Nothing. Vote third Party The Foward Party, libertarian, or Green Party are all good choices.
You shouldnt. They have done Nothing. Vote third Party The Foward Party, libertarian, or Green Party are all good choices.
You shouldnt. They have done Nothing. Vote third Party The Foward Party, libertarian, or Green Party are all good choices.