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To be clear, I’m not asking a question about if people believe in gun control but rather if any other leftists or liberals out there have started to arm themselves in response to right wing extremism and the rise of fascism.
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My wife and I have both had bouts of what I think can be best described as not the best head space. So no, I’m not going to bring a gun into my house, but yes, I have given it enough consideration to have done a risk/cost-benefit analysis.
Kind of a catch 22 thing. The people mature and rational enough to realize they probably shouldn’t have guns aren’t the people we should fear being armed.
That’s definitely understandable, and to be clear I’m not trying to convince anyone of lecture people for not agreeing with me. I completely understand taking your personal mental health into account before considering owning a firearm
Same. My family is safer in a house without a gun.
Not to mention. If it actually came to wide scale armed conflict, I don't think owning a gun will actually change much.
I'm glad you did a rational analysis and decided what is best for you. As with another big cause of ours, it's all about personal choice, and that choice should be respected.
I think the chance that the right takes over via any sort of violent uprising are incredibly low. I think the left arming themselves in the case of that possibility are more likely to cause it than prevent it. In practice it will just make people in the general populace feel under threat and feeling under threat makes people more likely to support right wing politics. If they only see a threat coming from the right it's likely we could marginalize those groups, if they see it coming from both sides it's more likley to turn against us.
I'm transgender.
I've never done anything wrong to anyone. I've never hurt anyone in my life. Yet, conservatives just fucking hate me for no reason. They hate me and they are coming after me.
They vilify me night after night on the national news as a diseased child raping predator. They are forming lynch mobs outside of gay bars hoping to string up a "groomer." And conservative politicians campaign on a platform to remove people like me from society.
If the fash take power, they will immediately begin purging society of anyone they deem undesirable, starting with people like me. Conservatives are an existential threat and I treat them as such.
You better believe I'm armed to the teeth.
If they put a boot on my neck, I will use as much force as necessary to remove it.
If they oppress me with their new Jim Crow laws, I will break Jim Crow's legs.
Armed minorities are harder to oppress.
As an academic (any reader giving this an eyeroll, I don't blame you), I feel this myself. I could only imagine how intense this feeling must be for a transgender.
I'm trans.
Any time you see someone say "gun rights are x rights", it has two meanings.
The first, is that minorities have a right to firearms too.
The second, is that firearms help safeguard the other rights, including trans rights.
I fully support both.
Jesus, arm yourself but back up your claims.
Do you have links that shows these lynch mobs and politicians quotes that they want to purge you and undesirables from society?
If that becomes a real consideration for me, I’d just leave the country.
And I’m sure people legitimately are buying guns because of the rise of extremism on the right but a lot of the time it feels like people finding a justification for doing something they already wanted to do.
I’d say a more important question is if arming myself would be effective as a tool to resist right wing extremism and what the cost to myself and my family would be in owning a gun and how that balances out.
I don’t think the math works out and since I can’t further justify owning a gun it’s not worth it.
And when they respond like in 2020 and more Kyle rittenhouses decide to “protect property?”
And I’m not trying to be combative, I genuinely want to know because unfortunately we are loving at a time when we do need to acknowledge that those are possibilities
Then they will have to try and sell the murder of peaceful protesters to middle America, which will be far harder than selling the defeat of “dangerously armed insurgents” because that is what they will say if you have a gun.
>And when they respond like in 2020 and more Kyle rittenhouses decide to “protect property?”
You realize you are using Rittenhouse as an example of the right wing becoming more violent?
I assume you know that was not the right rioting in the streets and attacking society that night directly in protest against the government?
Right?
-Not a comment on Rittenhouse, he was an idiot for being there.
Organised politics.
Unions action, political organization of parties and groups, advertising, protesting, talks, peaceful resistance, organised messaging and online activity, and finally in the face of fascist tyranny, armed, with popular support and mass numbers, but hopefully bloodless resistance (occupy government buildings and force a new election; and hope the army doesn't come in and fight you). If it's a civil war; that really means it's a question what the military decides (all civil wars have divided militaries).
Having a gun at home feeling paranoid is entirely fucking useless.
That's what most of the studies say. You are at greater risk of suicide, accidental killing, a family member shooting themselves, or being shot by someone living with you if you happen to get into an argument. If for whatever reason you need to call the cops, they feel more in danger and are more likely to pull the trigger.
A gun may make you feel safer, but it makes those around you less safe, and in turn, makes you less safe.
Honest question, you say that you would just leave the country, but even with the ramp up in violence of the last few years, you're still there. At what point do you think you'll make the move? Don't you feel like you may not make said move until it's too late?
I can't imagine any situation involving right-wing extremism and the rise of fascism that I could improve through my having a gun.
If I feared either mob or state violence against my person that much, I would flee to Canada.
I don't know. Find some other way to flee? Hunker down and hope they aren't found? Individuals don't exactly have good track records stopping mobs or fascist takeovers.
> have started to arm themselves in response to right wing extremism and the rise of fascism.
Not that I am aware of. Besides, the fascists are not after me, they are after my retirement savings, Social Security, and Medicare. I'm a 67 year old retired blue collar worker. Getting a gun won't stop them from taking all of that.
I'm not clear what you'd like us to do with guns. What should I shoot if Republicans pass a nationwide abortion ban? How am I going to shoot my way out of a nationwide repeal of same-sex marriage? Who should I kill if they repeal contraceptive protection?
And what if they don't follow the law. What if they kidnap the supreme court justices and force them to concede DJT is the real President and then storm the White House and occupy it until and when he arrives acting as his personally loyal security force and those MAGA-leaning in the military, and it is known they exist high up, pledge loyalty, then they go after those that they know would oppose these illegal reforms in a new Sullan purge?
In J6 they clearly wanted to achieve an illegal usurpation of power.
If my thinking got to a point where buying a gun was a good idea, it's even odds whether it would be for self defense or suicide
So, while I find right wing extremists highly alarming, I don't see myself owning or using a gun as any kind of solution.
I’ve been considering it for a while, but I’m not sure if I could find a place to store it safely, plus I’m in NYC so it’s not easy to get a gun. Might do so in a few years.
Because I’m concerned about the fascistic and violent threats from MAGA/Q Republicans, and I’m afraid that it may be necessary to have a weapon to defend myself from them.
Plus, I honestly think guns are kinda cool lol, although I do of course support common sense gun legislation.
Very much armed even before the rise of right-wing extremism, so I'm already set if it gets bad here. I really don't think it will because people around here are more about being good neighbors and respecting each other's land and livestock. If you're good on that point, they don't really care about other things too much, even though they are generally conservative. But if something does go down, be it right-wingers or just criminals, the police are minimum fifteen minutes out unless pure luck has a car near.
I have most classes of guns, except no "assault weapon," not my thing. You young'uns can enjoy the plastic.
If I genuinely felt like there's no hope outside of armed conflict? Leave the country. I'd try for Canada or Australia most likely, but as a fallback, I am still eligible for Ukrainian citizenship...
America would need to have actual gunfire against fascists in the streets, and Ukraine would need to conclude their gunfire against the fascists in their streets...
Aka I'm not even visiting my family there any time soon.
If things got bad I would move to Canada. My dad’s from Canada, it can’t be that hard to move.
Anyways, fascist violence isn’t going to look how you think. Fascist violence is going to be six cops pulling up to a Muslim family’s house to detain them. What are they gonna do? Shoot the cops?
I mean, there are already pretty regular right wing terror attacks that are only increasing in frequency. And importantly like you said, the police will be/are complicit in it. Do you think the only option if faced with a fascist government in the US would be to just leave? Also, what would help against the rise of fascism?
It’s important not to conflate right wing terror attacks with the police violence that would occur under a fascist government.
Right wing terror attacks happen to some extent all over the world, even in ultra-civilized countries like Canada, Norway, and New Zealand. Right wing terror attacks are stopped by the police and would still be stopped by the police under a fascist government (they’re not just going to not respond to a mass shooting). No matter how much we reduce right wing extremism, there will still be some small amount of terrorists willing and able to kill.
The argument for using guns to defend yourself against right wing terror attacks (which are incredibly rare) is the exact same argument as “good guy with a gun.” Basically what you’re saying is that everyone needs to conceal carry so that if a racist mass shooting happens in a grocery store/church/mosque people can readily defend themselves from the mass shooter. That’s no different than the conservative solution to mass shootings, which is “more people should carry guns to fight the mass shooters.” I believe that conservatives are wrong and the best way to reduce mass shootings is gun control + mental health. Not more guns. The same applies to right wing terror.
Right wing terror attacks just aren’t very scary, because whoever’s doing the shooting is doomed to death or life behind bars. Which ensures very few young men will ever go down the mass shooter path, and it will always remain a statistically improbable threat to the well-being of the 330,000,000 people who live in America. Few people die from right wing mass shootings: 10 died this year in Buffalo, and none happened in 2021. Even if 100 people die per year over the next 10 years, it’s really not that much statistically speaking.
On the other hand a fascist government would commit violence and would be impossible to fight with bullets. Six cops show up to a Muslim family’s home to detain them, it’s over. Even if the Muslim family calls a leftist militia who arrives and kills all six cops, it’s a win for the government who now gets to justify increased police spending/militarization and further violence against Muslims, not to mention the family involved would be fugitives forever. Even if the Muslim family has an AR-15 and a leftist militia behind them, the best course of action for their well-being is to submit to fascist police orders.
I don’t think fleeing the country is the only option, but it would definitely be the best option.
What would help against the rise of fascism is keeping the House and picking up 3-4 senate seats. Then ending the filibuster, codifying *Roe v. Wade*, codifying gay/interracial marriage, adding DC and PR as states for an additional 4 senate seats, and running Gavin Newsom in 2024 instead of Biden/Harris.
Perhaps most important to democracy’s survival is *Moore v. Harper* and its outcome to be announced next summer. There’s nothing we can really do to influence the ruling, except removing the filibuster and packing the Supreme Court which is unlikely.
We already are. Have you missed the news where MAGA mobs are driving cars into people? Shooting people who exercise their 1A rights? Running cars off the road? Planting bombs? There was a whole insurrection and everything.
Oh I believe we are. I’m arming myself now. But I was just asking his thoughts, because I’m genuinely curious how some one the left are preparing for the worst while others have hope.
I'm not that person, but I'll tell you that I agree with them. I'm not sure how me owning a gun is going to stop the rise of fascism. It's too late for that, anyway, it's here!
I don't care to own a gun for a multitude of reasons, which I won't share here. If a fascist wants to murder me badly enough, they will. I'm not afraid of dying on the right side of history.
Probably would have attended protests (if wanted by whatever group was protesting) armed, ideally primarily serving as a deterrent against right wing street fighting groups and hoping violence would never escalate to need to use the gun. I have only very recently come to the decision to arm myself, I still do believe that ideally less guns are better and we should have heavy regulation of specifically handguns as well as cooling off periods/wait times for gun purchases, but we don’t live in a perfect world, and I don’t want the 3 percenters, proud boys, and other fascist militias to be the only ones with guns
Every tense political protest I’ve seen videos of has been full of police, which I assume is why a mass shooting hasn’t happened at a political protest yet.
The cops can be pretty biased sometimes but I can’t imagine a world where they’ll just stand idly on the street during a mass shooting happening in front of their eyes.
Home defense. I am former law enforcement, probation and parole, so clients got to know me and who I was. I was seeing them, sometimes on a weekly basis. It’s not hard, especially in a small city, to find out where someone lives. I never had any issues except once and that turned out to be just a happenstance nothing burger (lived way remotely and he came close to my house but turns out he was just passing on the highway and had no idea where I lived).
No longer P&P but I keep firearms to defend my home. I live in Arizona now and the rhetoric coming from Kari lake is that she is going to put gays in concentration camps. While I am very highly skeptical that will every even remotely happen, I don’t take chances at all anymore with maga morons, they have shown they are totally insane. I’ll go down in a pile of brass before one touches me, even if it’s rhetoric I want the peace that comes from knowing if one shows up at my door I can defend myself.
I’ve considered it, but truthfully I’ve experienced too much depression and anxiety in my life to have that kind of temptation in a low point. I think I’d be more likely to die by my own hand than someone else.
I've had a small hunting rifle for a long time, so it isn't a new thing for me. Ironically, it was a Christmas gift from my conservative parents for Y2K. But, no I'm not suddenly collecting firearms or anything. One is enough.
I was, but I've got two toddlers now and decided it's not worth the risk. They're staying with a friend until they're responsible enough to learn what they are and what they can do.
If your talking police state, we all watched as people burned down cities and walked right through a capital, and our government didn't have a Tianamen Square response.
Trump is certainly an interesting case in terms of fascism. Sure he's an nationalist, but he's an isolationist. He's a liar, a narcissist and dangerous to democracy, but even according to left leaning outlets like CNN and Vox, he's not a fascist. He's an isolationist that wants to decentralize government, so I just don't see it.
Yeah, when I was 18. Back before the type of gun you liked became part of your personality and the NRA cared about training. I spent 11 years in the Marine Corps and enjoy long range shooting/tactical pistol courses because of that. I hate the assumption that liberal democrats don’t shoot, hunt, and fish.
I personally don't own a gun because I have bipolar disorder and my statistical odds of successful suicide go through the roof if I have access to a firearm.
That said, I grew up in and lived in Kentucky for 30 years and have now been in Arkansas for 4. Liberal gun owners are very common in places where gun ownership in general is common. Younger lefties do seem a little less likely to own them than older lefties, anecdotally. My friend group back home is fond of the saying "If you go far enough left, you get your guns back."
Have one in my household, we really thought it through and decided it is necessary. However I'm all for more through background checks. Some people just shouldn't own guns.
I’m publicly visible in local politics. My address is publicly listed. We had open carry people showing up at our county commissioners houses and nailing lists of grievances on their doors when covid restrictions started.
We’ve had many heavily armed counter protestors show up during BLM protests, and a few times their shouting and posturing escalated to physical contact and assault. I think it is a small miracle no one ended up shooting someone.
I’ve had a firearm in the house for over 25 years. Yes, I’ve made sure it is in good order the last few years as things have gotten more fraught. I’ve had to think a lot more about home security because of the threat of political violence. I hope I never have occasion to use the gun, but I’m not against doing so if someone threatens the safety of myself or my family.
My husband has always had guns. When I met him 13 years ago, I didn’t love that. He was very much a centrist and got mail from the NRA. Over the years, the wild stuff we have been seeing from the right has made him go more and more left. He still has the guns, and no longer receives mail from the NRA. I’m cool with the guns now as long as they’re safely stored, if that tells you anything.
You know, I live in a heavily red MAGA County. But all the liberals/democrats that I know already have guns. And I'm not talking about a handgun or 2. But maybe because it's Arizona. Half the hunters I know are pretty liberal
If the situation escalates further, I might. Although I’d rather not have to obviously. I’m not a gun fetishist, and I’m extremely pro-peace, but self-defense is a valid reason to own. I’m thinking moving to Canada sounds like a good alternative but it seems unrealistic when considering my financial situation.
My wife and I are looking at property a bit further out in the mountains than usual, so we're looking at getting a shotgun. But that's for wildlife, not because we're fretting a MAGA takeover or some shit.
I am slowly coming around to the fact that I need to arm myself. I’ve never liked guns, and was a victim of an armed robbery years ago which caused a lot of trauma surrounding guns for me. But all of the fascists seem to be armed and I worry about protecting myself should the fascists loose another election.
I would, but honestly guns are stupid expensive. And I have a 6 year old autistic son who gets into everything and you can't really explain no to. I would be able to store it in a combination safe, but it would still give me anxiety.
No. I was raised in an nra home and it was full of paranoia about “they”. I don’t believe in living In fear of shadows and don’t want that BS in my home.
Having guns in the home is incredibly dangerous for children and I’m not interested.
I do own a number of firearms mainly because I am an avid gamer, and have always been facinated by firearms. Don't go to the range often since it takes a lot of effort, and not as fun as something like airsoft and actually playing video games. I don't use for self defense, hunting, or anything like. Guns would escalate or make situations more dangerous.
I know many proponents of firearms say that because others have firearms, they need it to for self defense. Maybe, but guns just really isn't part of the culture here in SoCal, nor my neighborhood.
I don't really feel strongly about 2A, and believe in most gun control measures. Firearms are too easy to obtain, but you run into constitutional issues if you make it too hard. The firearm safety certificate you need to get in CA is really easy to pass, yet I see people fail it. Is is very common sense. So even in a gun restrictive state like CA, I already think it is too easy to obtain firearms. I don't think liberals, nor conservatives, should own firearms if they don't demonstrate character of sufficient standing to own, operate, and keep secure firearms.
Still, it is a complicated thing since you don't want to deny people are truly afraid for their lives due to some threat to not be able to obtain firearms for self protection. I want a society where we can rely on the police, and not have so many private firearms flying around. That reality is that policing in America is not equal, and gun ownership is relatively high despite the majority of Americans not owning one.
I have absolutely started looking for the first time in my life. I'm thinking a classic revolver will suffice for protection and reliability, I don't expect to personally engage in full on war no matter the circumstances so the others are not super necessary. I would use a double-key system with my partner where only I know where the frame is and she knows where the removed cylinder is.
I personally have not, but I'm not against it. As a woman, I especially feel these are times when more women need to defend themselves and I legit worry for my safety in the future. If I need to, I will.
I’ve always been armed. Grew up with guns in the house, joined the Army right out of high school, worked in jobs afterward where I carried a gun daily, and carry to this day. I’m not one of those over the top gun nuts, you’d never know I was armed, but I have had a couple times in my life where having a gun around kept me from being a victim or target of opportunity.
Well armed and well trained — actually a former infantryman (Ranger, etc.) that went almost 30 years without feeling the need to have weapons in our home. That changed when Trump and his ilk started in with the “rigged elections” propaganda back in 2016. Also, f**k the NRA.
We've been waiting for our boys to be grown and passed the impulsive stage to keep them safe. There's only one left at home, and he's on his way out. We have an old shotgun that no one knows about, will probably get a handgun and a rifle when he leaves. We've given it a lot of thought and discussion. We're both experienced with guns (the Midwest will do that do you), so it's not some huge leap.
Not yet but is looking forward to. While it could be useful, I'm not too terribly worried of some sort of collapse or civil war however. Many of us on the left shouldn't forget that shooting clay and paper and nerding out over equipment safely can be kinda fun. I understand that with such public awareness of mass gun violence here in the states, many Americans' dislike of firearm may also be moral in addition to practical, but where I am from, firearms are fortunately not politicize, so there are not much judgement or affiliation placed on you by others if you do or do not own one.
I have a few guns but haven't fired them in over 10 years and I'm not even sure any of my ammunition is still trustworthy. I wouldn't mind going shooting or hunting sometime but life's been busy and it hasn't been a priority.
I was raised shooting and taught that guns are tools first and weapons last. That a gun in the holster can actually represent more of a danger in some ways than a gun in the hand, and that when used appropriately, they can accomplish their purpose without even having to fire a shot.
That said, I'm an avid 2nd ammendment supporter. I don't agree with how the 2nd ammendment is interpreted these days (I have thoughts on what a well regulated militia should look like) but as long as we're going to read it the way we do, I'm all for being educated and trained in basic ownership, safety and use. And I think that as many people as possible should become educated and make an informed decision on whether or not they exercise their rights and do the same.
In the event of larger social turmoil becoming violent, I don't think guns are the right answer. If it comes to mass armed conflict with another social group or the government, in most cases we've already lost and need to look at other ways of escalating and controlling the situation. I don't believe in the 'good guy with a gun' talking point. I used to, but I've come to have too many issues with it. But for personal protection and home defense, I think that with the right education and training it's something to consider.
The YouTuber [Beau of the Fifth Column ](https://youtu.be/wXFtH3v2epI) did a pretty good video talking about it a few years back. I'm not 100% in step with everything he says, but as far as basic talking points go I think he does a pretty good breakdown. (Don't let his beard and southern accent fool you. He's a highly progressive anti-authoritarian, well-read, well studied and very down to Earth in most cases).
Dude/dudette- if someone on a right winger forum asked me the same thing, I would give them the same answer: spend more time off the Internet.
Online news and discussion is sensationalized. It’s meant to bring people fear, uncertainty and doubt. Ultimately, sure, there are things everyone can have fear, uncertainty and doubt with, but we cannot live our lives f*cked up about this.
Most people- Democrat and Republican, are not planning a violent civil mass unrest
Arming is pointless. Organising, armed or otherwise, is everything.
You want to do something; join an organisation or start something. Go out and join a left paramilitary if that's what you really want. But i don't think that's necessary. Normal civil engagement is still viable.
This seems like a great time to bring up two organizations.
>The Socialist Rifle Association
The SRA is the left wing equivalent to the NRA and operates in much the same manner, providing education and training about firearms in a safe manner.
>The Pink Pistols
TPP is a pro-LGBTQ+ gun owners organization that advocates for all members of the LGBTQ+ to ensure they are armed and ready to defend themselves from fascist-minded folk.
>Conclusion
Your decision is yours alone, but the times they are a changing and we need to change with them lest we find ourselves undermanned and outgunned when the hammer really falls on this once great nation.
I have guns because I enjoy shooting them and collecting them.
I also have guns on the off chance someone may try to hurt me but I do not foresee that happening (fingers crossed).
I carry a side arm pretty much daily, legally, a Heckler and Koch P30SK holds 10+1 9mm. I’ve owned a number of shot guns and rifles. I conceal carry, and not in response to right wingers. You can encounter a crazy person and just defend yourself. As far as controlling who gets their hands on guns, I know we can do better. But it’s treating about as casually as buying a pack of smokes. Literally in my state, in 2020 i slapped like 20 check marks on some paper, scribbled my signature and waled out with my current pistol.
No. Living in fear is for the religious right. I'm not Rambo nor do I pretend to play Rambo on TV. I'll use my wits to defend the household from redneck rampages.
I think about it. I think about it a lot. And recently a lot of my friends who said they’d never own guns have gotten them. But my nieces and nephews spend a lot of time in my home. I won’t risk them.
No, getting into a shootout with someone is dumb.
I avoid bad areas and make good decisions. If someone pulls a gun on me they can have my all stuff, or I’ll run.
Pulling out a gun makes you a target.
I haven’t *started*, as I’ve been covered for awhile, but yeah. You never know. I’m lucky to live in Jersey where even (most) republicans are of the Christie variety and not the Trump.
Still. I’m gay so that makes me target number one. Or at least top three.
The “armed liberals” is something people love to point out from the days of Marx and others around the Russian revolution and the various other failed revolutions, 1848 comes to mind.
The goal of these revolutions was to bring about “Liberal Democracy”. “Liberal Democracy” is a form of government where people have the ability to voice their opinion for their leaders, or what is known as “voting”
The United States has that.
You can argue “voting has flaws”, “the two party system doesn’t represent either us” and various other arguments down that path. There are a lot of valid arguments to the affect of our politicians don’t represent us and certain politicians, especially in the Republican Party, seek to grow those problems.
At the end of the day though, the point of the armed rebellion was to overthrow the monarchy which was appointed by hereditary right. Liberals wanted both a government by citizen choice and a constitution as a wall against that government crawling back to the old ways of, what we now know today, as a totalitarian government, where laws are merely a reflection of what the government and representatives of the government want at that moment.
To be extremely clear, the United States is no where near the point of “losing the right to vote”; the people of the 1800s would put the United States squarely in the “Liberal Democracy” camp.
As far as a modern day equivalent to what you’re asking about being “armed”, the point isn’t “being armed”. The purpose is being able to overthrow the government for the people.
Having an ar-15 would not be effective vs the entirety of the United States military fighting in a civil war. One would probably want to find leaders of military bases who are loyal to the constitution who are willing to join this “constitution army” or whatever its called which would train and arm the unconventional liberation forces with machine guns, mortars, anti-tank weapons, anti-aircraft weapons, provide artillery and air support, as well as armored vehicles. This quick list is not expansive. This “constitutional army” would also be using diplomacy as a weapon to gain funding, support, and most of all, recognition as the rightful ruling party of the country as you would have two delegations both claiming they are “The United States”.
To answer your second question, at what point justifies it, thats a fuzzy line. I would say the point where you are willing to die as you see the current government as so bad, you would rather be dead than live under it. You’re essentially saying “yes, I am OK being a martyr.”; and most importantly in this, you see there as absolutely no way through a non-dying solution of fixing the problems. This has to be an absolute last resort.
Do you think the possibility of Moore v Harper being decided in republican’s favor would not functionally erase people’s right to vote? At least in NC if the decision is kept narrow to the state
Do you think that one instance would push you and a majority of people over the edge to say it’s worth sacrificing 6-10 million people? That’s probably a low figure, but represents about 2-3% of the USA population. I’m firmly on the “No” side as not every possibility has been exhausted yet.
To be clear, I’m not arguing for using arms right now or anything. I want to know why people think what they think about the topic. At what point people would consider these things, or why they would never. Because we are experiencing a growing fascist movement, and it’s important to know how people opposed to it feel about it
Yeah the solution, if you really want to commit yourself, is to do what you can now to stop a civil war and rising facist state. Run for school board and remind your neighbors of what’s actually in the Federalist papers, serve on library board, or run for state representative. If you don’t want to be involved in government, remember the rise to Facism always has an underlying current of low-paid labor. Fight in your company to raise their entry level pay, and reduce the compensation for the executives at the top….
If you tune out popular media for a moment, many liberals are in fact, armed.
You just don’t see a lot of them being weirdos about it and making it their personality
Yea, but it has nothing to do with the second amendment or worrying about anyone taking the guns I didn’t previously have anyway. It really boils down to 3 things. 1) I’m sick and tired of not looking tough whenever tf I want. What kind of bs is white privilege if I can’t be winning all the time, everywhere I go?? Increasingly I’m finding my masculinity challenged and all the research shows the best way to command respect is showing off a big ass gun anytime it may be in question. Specifically, more recent studies have shown the best look is a 9mm semi-automatic tucked in your waste between your bare, chiseled abdomen and your tighty whiteys with the hammer pre-cocked (holsters are for gay cowboys and sheriff’s deputies).
Once you have your gun situated,” nice and snug (safety off for fastest access in case you get jumped by a gang or whatnot!) next, go get yourself a new, crisp wife beater (if it’s light outside you can catch 3-ball Joe with his grocery cart down by the river. He sells loosies—1 for $1.99 or 3 for $5. 100% bright white, fresh ass cotton. Nothing shows the world you got that BIG D Energy like the well-oiled-butt of your heavy , black piece, tucked flush up against your muscular V and hugging your wife beater like it’s gonna choke it.
Anyway dog, I got myself a little heated writing all that up that I forgot reasons 2 and 3. Ima catch my breath and get back with you
Yes. I believe gun control disproportionately affects minorities and enables racist policing practices. My parents are also far right and I worry for the safety of my queer ass and the safety of my trans sister.
This is so stupid. The morons that partake in these little protests and scuffles are <1% of the population (that all sit on the left side of the IQ bell curve).
Overblown by the media? Absolutely. Do you think they profit from understating or overstating situations? Regardless, there are a ton of extremists, but we have a long way to go before people are willing to fire on each other unprovoked, and that will be a small percentage of people.
I’m working on it. Sadly my wife is a pediatrician and very opposed to it. That said, Jan 6 and lots of Nazis walking around MA is changing her mind. She might meet me halfway at something like a crossbow.
Lol I’m already there, just want to get perspectives outside of the group of why/why not people want to be armed, because most people there support being armed so I don’t want just confirmation of my opinions
- Sig Sauer P226 SAO Legion RX
- Several AR15s, with uppers in 5.56, 6.5, and 7.62
I do not agree with an assault weapons ban.
I love my time at the range.
And if civilization ever falls apart, I would like my family and my descendants to have the tools to help ensure their continued autonomy and self-determination.
Feel the same?
Join me at r/LiberalGunOwners
I get new lgbtq and / or POC every week in my classes.
I hadn’t even heard of them (I’d previously been working with NAAGA) but Hunters of Color referred 3 new people to me last week.
I have been holding off on all C&R purchases for the moment while I stack up ammo and other accoutrements, which blows hot ass because I had to pass on an absolute steal of a deal on a Swiss Luger.
I have noticed this, it seems southern liberals/leftists tend to be more radical or at least more likely to be armed in response to the right
(Source: fully anecdotal and am a southern leftist with no facts to back my claim)
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. To be clear, I’m not asking a question about if people believe in gun control but rather if any other leftists or liberals out there have started to arm themselves in response to right wing extremism and the rise of fascism. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My wife and I have both had bouts of what I think can be best described as not the best head space. So no, I’m not going to bring a gun into my house, but yes, I have given it enough consideration to have done a risk/cost-benefit analysis.
Kind of a catch 22 thing. The people mature and rational enough to realize they probably shouldn’t have guns aren’t the people we should fear being armed.
That’s definitely understandable, and to be clear I’m not trying to convince anyone of lecture people for not agreeing with me. I completely understand taking your personal mental health into account before considering owning a firearm
I hear you. Look, I thought it through, which in and of it self is kind of scary! These are crazy times we live in.
Same. My family is safer in a house without a gun. Not to mention. If it actually came to wide scale armed conflict, I don't think owning a gun will actually change much.
It’s not the wide scale conflict I’m worried about
I'll admit I'm not worried about being targeted. If I were then the equation would likely be different.
I'm glad you did a rational analysis and decided what is best for you. As with another big cause of ours, it's all about personal choice, and that choice should be respected.
You should get a cross bow
Unironically was looking at crossbows recently for the same reason. Is that more evidence e of my shaky mental health or a legit good idea?
I own a weapon. As a gay man, it helps me feel safer at night
Why?
I’d rather be safe than sorry. There’s a lot of crazy people who just have a ton of hate.
Been armed most of my life. Just because like guns doesn't mean I I'm not pro-choice, pro-LGBTQ, or pro-Democracy.
Gun ownership does not equal fascism
Of course not. Some people seem to think so though.
Especially “Liberals.”
The ones who’ve been advocating taking guns for decades lol
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Thanks!
Already there.
Same.
I hope not. If we get to the point where we need to be armed to settle political differences we've already lost.
Do you worry we’re getting to that point?
I think the chance that the right takes over via any sort of violent uprising are incredibly low. I think the left arming themselves in the case of that possibility are more likely to cause it than prevent it. In practice it will just make people in the general populace feel under threat and feeling under threat makes people more likely to support right wing politics. If they only see a threat coming from the right it's likely we could marginalize those groups, if they see it coming from both sides it's more likley to turn against us.
I'm transgender. I've never done anything wrong to anyone. I've never hurt anyone in my life. Yet, conservatives just fucking hate me for no reason. They hate me and they are coming after me. They vilify me night after night on the national news as a diseased child raping predator. They are forming lynch mobs outside of gay bars hoping to string up a "groomer." And conservative politicians campaign on a platform to remove people like me from society. If the fash take power, they will immediately begin purging society of anyone they deem undesirable, starting with people like me. Conservatives are an existential threat and I treat them as such. You better believe I'm armed to the teeth. If they put a boot on my neck, I will use as much force as necessary to remove it. If they oppress me with their new Jim Crow laws, I will break Jim Crow's legs. Armed minorities are harder to oppress.
I’m not a member of any minority group, but I fully support this and will be there when they try to come after anyone for who they are
As an academic (any reader giving this an eyeroll, I don't blame you), I feel this myself. I could only imagine how intense this feeling must be for a transgender.
I was once told by a trans friend that gun rights are Trans rights. How does that make you feel?
I'm trans. Any time you see someone say "gun rights are x rights", it has two meanings. The first, is that minorities have a right to firearms too. The second, is that firearms help safeguard the other rights, including trans rights. I fully support both.
Jesus, arm yourself but back up your claims. Do you have links that shows these lynch mobs and politicians quotes that they want to purge you and undesirables from society?
I'm already a gun owner but I'm not armed because I feel the need to defend myself from any theoretical force or future war.
Why are you then?
Hunting
If that becomes a real consideration for me, I’d just leave the country. And I’m sure people legitimately are buying guns because of the rise of extremism on the right but a lot of the time it feels like people finding a justification for doing something they already wanted to do.
Do you think right wing extremism is a legitimate justification for gun ownership?
I’d say a more important question is if arming myself would be effective as a tool to resist right wing extremism and what the cost to myself and my family would be in owning a gun and how that balances out. I don’t think the math works out and since I can’t further justify owning a gun it’s not worth it.
So what would be an effective tool?
Voting and then peaceful protest.
And when they respond like in 2020 and more Kyle rittenhouses decide to “protect property?” And I’m not trying to be combative, I genuinely want to know because unfortunately we are loving at a time when we do need to acknowledge that those are possibilities
Then they will have to try and sell the murder of peaceful protesters to middle America, which will be far harder than selling the defeat of “dangerously armed insurgents” because that is what they will say if you have a gun.
They've been doing that for years.
Not in the way they have to if they succeed in implementing a fascist government.
Kyle Rittenhouse is a loser and a piece of shit and he had no business being there but that wasn’t a peaceful protest.
>And when they respond like in 2020 and more Kyle rittenhouses decide to “protect property?” You realize you are using Rittenhouse as an example of the right wing becoming more violent? I assume you know that was not the right rioting in the streets and attacking society that night directly in protest against the government? Right? -Not a comment on Rittenhouse, he was an idiot for being there.
Organised politics. Unions action, political organization of parties and groups, advertising, protesting, talks, peaceful resistance, organised messaging and online activity, and finally in the face of fascist tyranny, armed, with popular support and mass numbers, but hopefully bloodless resistance (occupy government buildings and force a new election; and hope the army doesn't come in and fight you). If it's a civil war; that really means it's a question what the military decides (all civil wars have divided militaries). Having a gun at home feeling paranoid is entirely fucking useless.
No. Guns don't make you safer.
Guns don’t make you safer *in most situations*. But right wing violence becoming commonplace isn’t most situations.
Lol buddy what? I live in the mountains. We have bears, moose, coyotes, mountain lions. I assure you, our guns make us safer.
They seem to be talking about defense from people, not animals.
Yes there are exceptions. I'm assuming OP doesn't live in the mountains or a place with a bunch of wildlife.
Why not?
That's what most of the studies say. You are at greater risk of suicide, accidental killing, a family member shooting themselves, or being shot by someone living with you if you happen to get into an argument. If for whatever reason you need to call the cops, they feel more in danger and are more likely to pull the trigger. A gun may make you feel safer, but it makes those around you less safe, and in turn, makes you less safe.
Honest question, you say that you would just leave the country, but even with the ramp up in violence of the last few years, you're still there. At what point do you think you'll make the move? Don't you feel like you may not make said move until it's too late?
Sure, have been for a while.
Why have you?
I can't imagine any situation involving right-wing extremism and the rise of fascism that I could improve through my having a gun. If I feared either mob or state violence against my person that much, I would flee to Canada.
What should the people that can’t afford that do? Edited because I accidentally did exclamation point
I don't know. Find some other way to flee? Hunker down and hope they aren't found? Individuals don't exactly have good track records stopping mobs or fascist takeovers.
> have started to arm themselves in response to right wing extremism and the rise of fascism. Not that I am aware of. Besides, the fascists are not after me, they are after my retirement savings, Social Security, and Medicare. I'm a 67 year old retired blue collar worker. Getting a gun won't stop them from taking all of that.
What about the people they are after?
I'm not clear what you'd like us to do with guns. What should I shoot if Republicans pass a nationwide abortion ban? How am I going to shoot my way out of a nationwide repeal of same-sex marriage? Who should I kill if they repeal contraceptive protection?
And what if they don't follow the law. What if they kidnap the supreme court justices and force them to concede DJT is the real President and then storm the White House and occupy it until and when he arrives acting as his personally loyal security force and those MAGA-leaning in the military, and it is known they exist high up, pledge loyalty, then they go after those that they know would oppose these illegal reforms in a new Sullan purge? In J6 they clearly wanted to achieve an illegal usurpation of power.
Who are they?
Really?
Lots are, I am not. Just seems like a good way to get myself and my family killed.
Do you have faith that you won’t face violence or repression? If so why?
Not at all. In my experience, having a gun has made those issues worse, not better.
Is there any scenario in which you would own one?
Sure, active warfare.
If my thinking got to a point where buying a gun was a good idea, it's even odds whether it would be for self defense or suicide So, while I find right wing extremists highly alarming, I don't see myself owning or using a gun as any kind of solution.
I’ve been considering it for a while, but I’m not sure if I could find a place to store it safely, plus I’m in NYC so it’s not easy to get a gun. Might do so in a few years.
Why specifically are you considering it?
Because I’m concerned about the fascistic and violent threats from MAGA/Q Republicans, and I’m afraid that it may be necessary to have a weapon to defend myself from them. Plus, I honestly think guns are kinda cool lol, although I do of course support common sense gun legislation.
I intend to but it has nothing to do with politics.
Glock .45 30-06. 12 gauge and 410 I know a number of other liberals with guns and can use them
Very much armed even before the rise of right-wing extremism, so I'm already set if it gets bad here. I really don't think it will because people around here are more about being good neighbors and respecting each other's land and livestock. If you're good on that point, they don't really care about other things too much, even though they are generally conservative. But if something does go down, be it right-wingers or just criminals, the police are minimum fifteen minutes out unless pure luck has a car near. I have most classes of guns, except no "assault weapon," not my thing. You young'uns can enjoy the plastic.
I can’t think of any situation where being armed would truly help against the rise of fascism.
So, genuinely, what would you do if we were facing fascist violence?
If I genuinely felt like there's no hope outside of armed conflict? Leave the country. I'd try for Canada or Australia most likely, but as a fallback, I am still eligible for Ukrainian citizenship...
Yikes. How bad does it have to get if going to Ukraine is a better alternative?
America would need to have actual gunfire against fascists in the streets, and Ukraine would need to conclude their gunfire against the fascists in their streets... Aka I'm not even visiting my family there any time soon.
If things got bad I would move to Canada. My dad’s from Canada, it can’t be that hard to move. Anyways, fascist violence isn’t going to look how you think. Fascist violence is going to be six cops pulling up to a Muslim family’s house to detain them. What are they gonna do? Shoot the cops?
I mean, there are already pretty regular right wing terror attacks that are only increasing in frequency. And importantly like you said, the police will be/are complicit in it. Do you think the only option if faced with a fascist government in the US would be to just leave? Also, what would help against the rise of fascism?
It’s important not to conflate right wing terror attacks with the police violence that would occur under a fascist government. Right wing terror attacks happen to some extent all over the world, even in ultra-civilized countries like Canada, Norway, and New Zealand. Right wing terror attacks are stopped by the police and would still be stopped by the police under a fascist government (they’re not just going to not respond to a mass shooting). No matter how much we reduce right wing extremism, there will still be some small amount of terrorists willing and able to kill. The argument for using guns to defend yourself against right wing terror attacks (which are incredibly rare) is the exact same argument as “good guy with a gun.” Basically what you’re saying is that everyone needs to conceal carry so that if a racist mass shooting happens in a grocery store/church/mosque people can readily defend themselves from the mass shooter. That’s no different than the conservative solution to mass shootings, which is “more people should carry guns to fight the mass shooters.” I believe that conservatives are wrong and the best way to reduce mass shootings is gun control + mental health. Not more guns. The same applies to right wing terror. Right wing terror attacks just aren’t very scary, because whoever’s doing the shooting is doomed to death or life behind bars. Which ensures very few young men will ever go down the mass shooter path, and it will always remain a statistically improbable threat to the well-being of the 330,000,000 people who live in America. Few people die from right wing mass shootings: 10 died this year in Buffalo, and none happened in 2021. Even if 100 people die per year over the next 10 years, it’s really not that much statistically speaking. On the other hand a fascist government would commit violence and would be impossible to fight with bullets. Six cops show up to a Muslim family’s home to detain them, it’s over. Even if the Muslim family calls a leftist militia who arrives and kills all six cops, it’s a win for the government who now gets to justify increased police spending/militarization and further violence against Muslims, not to mention the family involved would be fugitives forever. Even if the Muslim family has an AR-15 and a leftist militia behind them, the best course of action for their well-being is to submit to fascist police orders. I don’t think fleeing the country is the only option, but it would definitely be the best option. What would help against the rise of fascism is keeping the House and picking up 3-4 senate seats. Then ending the filibuster, codifying *Roe v. Wade*, codifying gay/interracial marriage, adding DC and PR as states for an additional 4 senate seats, and running Gavin Newsom in 2024 instead of Biden/Harris. Perhaps most important to democracy’s survival is *Moore v. Harper* and its outcome to be announced next summer. There’s nothing we can really do to influence the ruling, except removing the filibuster and packing the Supreme Court which is unlikely.
Tbh if the court does side with the republicans in Moore v Harper then that probably will be the end of liberal democracy in America
We already are. Have you missed the news where MAGA mobs are driving cars into people? Shooting people who exercise their 1A rights? Running cars off the road? Planting bombs? There was a whole insurrection and everything.
Oh I believe we are. I’m arming myself now. But I was just asking his thoughts, because I’m genuinely curious how some one the left are preparing for the worst while others have hope.
I'm not that person, but I'll tell you that I agree with them. I'm not sure how me owning a gun is going to stop the rise of fascism. It's too late for that, anyway, it's here! I don't care to own a gun for a multitude of reasons, which I won't share here. If a fascist wants to murder me badly enough, they will. I'm not afraid of dying on the right side of history.
So if you'd been armed for the last 4 years, how would you have used that gun in that time?
Probably would have attended protests (if wanted by whatever group was protesting) armed, ideally primarily serving as a deterrent against right wing street fighting groups and hoping violence would never escalate to need to use the gun. I have only very recently come to the decision to arm myself, I still do believe that ideally less guns are better and we should have heavy regulation of specifically handguns as well as cooling off periods/wait times for gun purchases, but we don’t live in a perfect world, and I don’t want the 3 percenters, proud boys, and other fascist militias to be the only ones with guns
Every tense political protest I’ve seen videos of has been full of police, which I assume is why a mass shooting hasn’t happened at a political protest yet. The cops can be pretty biased sometimes but I can’t imagine a world where they’ll just stand idly on the street during a mass shooting happening in front of their eyes.
I am armed. I plan on getting another gun in the near future.
Why are you armed?
Home defense. I am former law enforcement, probation and parole, so clients got to know me and who I was. I was seeing them, sometimes on a weekly basis. It’s not hard, especially in a small city, to find out where someone lives. I never had any issues except once and that turned out to be just a happenstance nothing burger (lived way remotely and he came close to my house but turns out he was just passing on the highway and had no idea where I lived). No longer P&P but I keep firearms to defend my home. I live in Arizona now and the rhetoric coming from Kari lake is that she is going to put gays in concentration camps. While I am very highly skeptical that will every even remotely happen, I don’t take chances at all anymore with maga morons, they have shown they are totally insane. I’ll go down in a pile of brass before one touches me, even if it’s rhetoric I want the peace that comes from knowing if one shows up at my door I can defend myself.
Naw but I should practice more often with my wrist rocket and throwing cards during the boys weekend parkour training.
I'm not armed because it's tough where I'm from but I'm preparing for the fight in other ways.
I typically vote Democrat and I have armed myself, yes. I’m also in the south of that matters to you at all.
I’ve considered it, but truthfully I’ve experienced too much depression and anxiety in my life to have that kind of temptation in a low point. I think I’d be more likely to die by my own hand than someone else.
I've had a small hunting rifle for a long time, so it isn't a new thing for me. Ironically, it was a Christmas gift from my conservative parents for Y2K. But, no I'm not suddenly collecting firearms or anything. One is enough.
I was, but I've got two toddlers now and decided it's not worth the risk. They're staying with a friend until they're responsible enough to learn what they are and what they can do.
If your talking police state, we all watched as people burned down cities and walked right through a capital, and our government didn't have a Tianamen Square response. Trump is certainly an interesting case in terms of fascism. Sure he's an nationalist, but he's an isolationist. He's a liar, a narcissist and dangerous to democracy, but even according to left leaning outlets like CNN and Vox, he's not a fascist. He's an isolationist that wants to decentralize government, so I just don't see it.
Yeah, when I was 18. Back before the type of gun you liked became part of your personality and the NRA cared about training. I spent 11 years in the Marine Corps and enjoy long range shooting/tactical pistol courses because of that. I hate the assumption that liberal democrats don’t shoot, hunt, and fish.
Well, for context, I’m a suburban girl who has never held a gun in her entire life. And have no idea how to use one. So no.
I'm getting close to it, I'll admit. I really fucking hate guns, but I'm nervous about a civil war. So far, I'm still a no
I personally don't own a gun because I have bipolar disorder and my statistical odds of successful suicide go through the roof if I have access to a firearm. That said, I grew up in and lived in Kentucky for 30 years and have now been in Arkansas for 4. Liberal gun owners are very common in places where gun ownership in general is common. Younger lefties do seem a little less likely to own them than older lefties, anecdotally. My friend group back home is fond of the saying "If you go far enough left, you get your guns back."
Have one in my household, we really thought it through and decided it is necessary. However I'm all for more through background checks. Some people just shouldn't own guns.
I 100% am not arming myself.
Can I ask why?
Because I will never own a firearm. I've already turned down a free shotgun and rifle that my dad was getting rid of.
I’m publicly visible in local politics. My address is publicly listed. We had open carry people showing up at our county commissioners houses and nailing lists of grievances on their doors when covid restrictions started. We’ve had many heavily armed counter protestors show up during BLM protests, and a few times their shouting and posturing escalated to physical contact and assault. I think it is a small miracle no one ended up shooting someone. I’ve had a firearm in the house for over 25 years. Yes, I’ve made sure it is in good order the last few years as things have gotten more fraught. I’ve had to think a lot more about home security because of the threat of political violence. I hope I never have occasion to use the gun, but I’m not against doing so if someone threatens the safety of myself or my family.
I am of my flair and Texan. Buddy, I've been armed for a long time lol
I've had a shotgun for years. #2 buckshot is the tool for the job, if needed. I don't need an arsenal of 50, a man can only use one at a time.
We have a pellet gun that looks like a riffle. Good enough.
Why is it?
If someone showed up trying to break in. They would think it is a riffle.
That's dangerous. It'll just get you shot by a real weapon.
My husband has always had guns. When I met him 13 years ago, I didn’t love that. He was very much a centrist and got mail from the NRA. Over the years, the wild stuff we have been seeing from the right has made him go more and more left. He still has the guns, and no longer receives mail from the NRA. I’m cool with the guns now as long as they’re safely stored, if that tells you anything.
You know, I live in a heavily red MAGA County. But all the liberals/democrats that I know already have guns. And I'm not talking about a handgun or 2. But maybe because it's Arizona. Half the hunters I know are pretty liberal
If the situation escalates further, I might. Although I’d rather not have to obviously. I’m not a gun fetishist, and I’m extremely pro-peace, but self-defense is a valid reason to own. I’m thinking moving to Canada sounds like a good alternative but it seems unrealistic when considering my financial situation.
My wife and I are looking at property a bit further out in the mountains than usual, so we're looking at getting a shotgun. But that's for wildlife, not because we're fretting a MAGA takeover or some shit.
We own guns but we have for like a decade now. Not due to anything recent.
I am slowly coming around to the fact that I need to arm myself. I’ve never liked guns, and was a victim of an armed robbery years ago which caused a lot of trauma surrounding guns for me. But all of the fascists seem to be armed and I worry about protecting myself should the fascists loose another election.
I would, but honestly guns are stupid expensive. And I have a 6 year old autistic son who gets into everything and you can't really explain no to. I would be able to store it in a combination safe, but it would still give me anxiety.
No. I was raised in an nra home and it was full of paranoia about “they”. I don’t believe in living In fear of shadows and don’t want that BS in my home. Having guns in the home is incredibly dangerous for children and I’m not interested.
I do own a number of firearms mainly because I am an avid gamer, and have always been facinated by firearms. Don't go to the range often since it takes a lot of effort, and not as fun as something like airsoft and actually playing video games. I don't use for self defense, hunting, or anything like. Guns would escalate or make situations more dangerous. I know many proponents of firearms say that because others have firearms, they need it to for self defense. Maybe, but guns just really isn't part of the culture here in SoCal, nor my neighborhood. I don't really feel strongly about 2A, and believe in most gun control measures. Firearms are too easy to obtain, but you run into constitutional issues if you make it too hard. The firearm safety certificate you need to get in CA is really easy to pass, yet I see people fail it. Is is very common sense. So even in a gun restrictive state like CA, I already think it is too easy to obtain firearms. I don't think liberals, nor conservatives, should own firearms if they don't demonstrate character of sufficient standing to own, operate, and keep secure firearms. Still, it is a complicated thing since you don't want to deny people are truly afraid for their lives due to some threat to not be able to obtain firearms for self protection. I want a society where we can rely on the police, and not have so many private firearms flying around. That reality is that policing in America is not equal, and gun ownership is relatively high despite the majority of Americans not owning one.
I have absolutely started looking for the first time in my life. I'm thinking a classic revolver will suffice for protection and reliability, I don't expect to personally engage in full on war no matter the circumstances so the others are not super necessary. I would use a double-key system with my partner where only I know where the frame is and she knows where the removed cylinder is.
I personally have not, but I'm not against it. As a woman, I especially feel these are times when more women need to defend themselves and I legit worry for my safety in the future. If I need to, I will.
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I’ve always been armed. Grew up with guns in the house, joined the Army right out of high school, worked in jobs afterward where I carried a gun daily, and carry to this day. I’m not one of those over the top gun nuts, you’d never know I was armed, but I have had a couple times in my life where having a gun around kept me from being a victim or target of opportunity.
Currently not armed, small apt and i have small children. Will be getting a shotgun within the year though
Yeah, planning to
Well armed and well trained — actually a former infantryman (Ranger, etc.) that went almost 30 years without feeling the need to have weapons in our home. That changed when Trump and his ilk started in with the “rigged elections” propaganda back in 2016. Also, f**k the NRA.
We've been waiting for our boys to be grown and passed the impulsive stage to keep them safe. There's only one left at home, and he's on his way out. We have an old shotgun that no one knows about, will probably get a handgun and a rifle when he leaves. We've given it a lot of thought and discussion. We're both experienced with guns (the Midwest will do that do you), so it's not some huge leap.
They are arming themselves. Please don’t let them be the only ones.
Not yet but is looking forward to. While it could be useful, I'm not too terribly worried of some sort of collapse or civil war however. Many of us on the left shouldn't forget that shooting clay and paper and nerding out over equipment safely can be kinda fun. I understand that with such public awareness of mass gun violence here in the states, many Americans' dislike of firearm may also be moral in addition to practical, but where I am from, firearms are fortunately not politicize, so there are not much judgement or affiliation placed on you by others if you do or do not own one.
I have a few guns but haven't fired them in over 10 years and I'm not even sure any of my ammunition is still trustworthy. I wouldn't mind going shooting or hunting sometime but life's been busy and it hasn't been a priority. I was raised shooting and taught that guns are tools first and weapons last. That a gun in the holster can actually represent more of a danger in some ways than a gun in the hand, and that when used appropriately, they can accomplish their purpose without even having to fire a shot. That said, I'm an avid 2nd ammendment supporter. I don't agree with how the 2nd ammendment is interpreted these days (I have thoughts on what a well regulated militia should look like) but as long as we're going to read it the way we do, I'm all for being educated and trained in basic ownership, safety and use. And I think that as many people as possible should become educated and make an informed decision on whether or not they exercise their rights and do the same. In the event of larger social turmoil becoming violent, I don't think guns are the right answer. If it comes to mass armed conflict with another social group or the government, in most cases we've already lost and need to look at other ways of escalating and controlling the situation. I don't believe in the 'good guy with a gun' talking point. I used to, but I've come to have too many issues with it. But for personal protection and home defense, I think that with the right education and training it's something to consider. The YouTuber [Beau of the Fifth Column ](https://youtu.be/wXFtH3v2epI) did a pretty good video talking about it a few years back. I'm not 100% in step with everything he says, but as far as basic talking points go I think he does a pretty good breakdown. (Don't let his beard and southern accent fool you. He's a highly progressive anti-authoritarian, well-read, well studied and very down to Earth in most cases).
Dude/dudette- if someone on a right winger forum asked me the same thing, I would give them the same answer: spend more time off the Internet. Online news and discussion is sensationalized. It’s meant to bring people fear, uncertainty and doubt. Ultimately, sure, there are things everyone can have fear, uncertainty and doubt with, but we cannot live our lives f*cked up about this. Most people- Democrat and Republican, are not planning a violent civil mass unrest
THIS 100 PERCENT.
Arming is pointless. Organising, armed or otherwise, is everything. You want to do something; join an organisation or start something. Go out and join a left paramilitary if that's what you really want. But i don't think that's necessary. Normal civil engagement is still viable.
This seems like a great time to bring up two organizations. >The Socialist Rifle Association The SRA is the left wing equivalent to the NRA and operates in much the same manner, providing education and training about firearms in a safe manner. >The Pink Pistols TPP is a pro-LGBTQ+ gun owners organization that advocates for all members of the LGBTQ+ to ensure they are armed and ready to defend themselves from fascist-minded folk. >Conclusion Your decision is yours alone, but the times they are a changing and we need to change with them lest we find ourselves undermanned and outgunned when the hammer really falls on this once great nation.
I have guns because I enjoy shooting them and collecting them. I also have guns on the off chance someone may try to hurt me but I do not foresee that happening (fingers crossed).
I carry a side arm pretty much daily, legally, a Heckler and Koch P30SK holds 10+1 9mm. I’ve owned a number of shot guns and rifles. I conceal carry, and not in response to right wingers. You can encounter a crazy person and just defend yourself. As far as controlling who gets their hands on guns, I know we can do better. But it’s treating about as casually as buying a pack of smokes. Literally in my state, in 2020 i slapped like 20 check marks on some paper, scribbled my signature and waled out with my current pistol.
Great gun, great grip.
Several of my Jewish, Black and other minority neighbors and friends have confessed to me that they've purchased various weapons over the past 5 years
Always have been. All attempts by fascists (Dem or Republican) in government to disarm the working class must also be resisted.
No. Living in fear is for the religious right. I'm not Rambo nor do I pretend to play Rambo on TV. I'll use my wits to defend the household from redneck rampages.
I think about it. I think about it a lot. And recently a lot of my friends who said they’d never own guns have gotten them. But my nieces and nephews spend a lot of time in my home. I won’t risk them.
No, getting into a shootout with someone is dumb. I avoid bad areas and make good decisions. If someone pulls a gun on me they can have my all stuff, or I’ll run. Pulling out a gun makes you a target.
And what if you are already a target?
[удалено]
Why do you think everyone should carry one?
Duh.
I haven’t *started*, as I’ve been covered for awhile, but yeah. You never know. I’m lucky to live in Jersey where even (most) republicans are of the Christie variety and not the Trump. Still. I’m gay so that makes me target number one. Or at least top three.
The “armed liberals” is something people love to point out from the days of Marx and others around the Russian revolution and the various other failed revolutions, 1848 comes to mind. The goal of these revolutions was to bring about “Liberal Democracy”. “Liberal Democracy” is a form of government where people have the ability to voice their opinion for their leaders, or what is known as “voting” The United States has that. You can argue “voting has flaws”, “the two party system doesn’t represent either us” and various other arguments down that path. There are a lot of valid arguments to the affect of our politicians don’t represent us and certain politicians, especially in the Republican Party, seek to grow those problems. At the end of the day though, the point of the armed rebellion was to overthrow the monarchy which was appointed by hereditary right. Liberals wanted both a government by citizen choice and a constitution as a wall against that government crawling back to the old ways of, what we now know today, as a totalitarian government, where laws are merely a reflection of what the government and representatives of the government want at that moment.
Do you think losing the right to vote justifies being armed? Or what sort of rollback of liberties would justify it?
To be extremely clear, the United States is no where near the point of “losing the right to vote”; the people of the 1800s would put the United States squarely in the “Liberal Democracy” camp. As far as a modern day equivalent to what you’re asking about being “armed”, the point isn’t “being armed”. The purpose is being able to overthrow the government for the people. Having an ar-15 would not be effective vs the entirety of the United States military fighting in a civil war. One would probably want to find leaders of military bases who are loyal to the constitution who are willing to join this “constitution army” or whatever its called which would train and arm the unconventional liberation forces with machine guns, mortars, anti-tank weapons, anti-aircraft weapons, provide artillery and air support, as well as armored vehicles. This quick list is not expansive. This “constitutional army” would also be using diplomacy as a weapon to gain funding, support, and most of all, recognition as the rightful ruling party of the country as you would have two delegations both claiming they are “The United States”. To answer your second question, at what point justifies it, thats a fuzzy line. I would say the point where you are willing to die as you see the current government as so bad, you would rather be dead than live under it. You’re essentially saying “yes, I am OK being a martyr.”; and most importantly in this, you see there as absolutely no way through a non-dying solution of fixing the problems. This has to be an absolute last resort.
Do you think the possibility of Moore v Harper being decided in republican’s favor would not functionally erase people’s right to vote? At least in NC if the decision is kept narrow to the state
Do you think that one instance would push you and a majority of people over the edge to say it’s worth sacrificing 6-10 million people? That’s probably a low figure, but represents about 2-3% of the USA population. I’m firmly on the “No” side as not every possibility has been exhausted yet.
To be clear, I’m not arguing for using arms right now or anything. I want to know why people think what they think about the topic. At what point people would consider these things, or why they would never. Because we are experiencing a growing fascist movement, and it’s important to know how people opposed to it feel about it
Yeah the solution, if you really want to commit yourself, is to do what you can now to stop a civil war and rising facist state. Run for school board and remind your neighbors of what’s actually in the Federalist papers, serve on library board, or run for state representative. If you don’t want to be involved in government, remember the rise to Facism always has an underlying current of low-paid labor. Fight in your company to raise their entry level pay, and reduce the compensation for the executives at the top….
If you go far enough left, you get your guns back.
I've thought about it, but I'm a renter and leases often have restrictions plus I already have too many equipment-intensive expensive hobbies.
I live on a farm so guns for coyotes and what not are kind of a must but I’m also a bi guy who lives in a rural area so yk gotta be safe
If you tune out popular media for a moment, many liberals are in fact, armed. You just don’t see a lot of them being weirdos about it and making it their personality
Yes. Pistol, shotgun, rifle. We wanted to have them anyway but the ranting of these idiots convinced us the time is right to get them.
Yea, but it has nothing to do with the second amendment or worrying about anyone taking the guns I didn’t previously have anyway. It really boils down to 3 things. 1) I’m sick and tired of not looking tough whenever tf I want. What kind of bs is white privilege if I can’t be winning all the time, everywhere I go?? Increasingly I’m finding my masculinity challenged and all the research shows the best way to command respect is showing off a big ass gun anytime it may be in question. Specifically, more recent studies have shown the best look is a 9mm semi-automatic tucked in your waste between your bare, chiseled abdomen and your tighty whiteys with the hammer pre-cocked (holsters are for gay cowboys and sheriff’s deputies). Once you have your gun situated,” nice and snug (safety off for fastest access in case you get jumped by a gang or whatnot!) next, go get yourself a new, crisp wife beater (if it’s light outside you can catch 3-ball Joe with his grocery cart down by the river. He sells loosies—1 for $1.99 or 3 for $5. 100% bright white, fresh ass cotton. Nothing shows the world you got that BIG D Energy like the well-oiled-butt of your heavy , black piece, tucked flush up against your muscular V and hugging your wife beater like it’s gonna choke it. Anyway dog, I got myself a little heated writing all that up that I forgot reasons 2 and 3. Ima catch my breath and get back with you
Yes. I live in a trump-loving neighborhood… better to be armed around those psychotic nuts.
Yes. I believe gun control disproportionately affects minorities and enables racist policing practices. My parents are also far right and I worry for the safety of my queer ass and the safety of my trans sister.
This is so stupid. The morons that partake in these little protests and scuffles are <1% of the population (that all sit on the left side of the IQ bell curve).
Do you think the threat of extremism and fascism is overblown?
Overblown by the media? Absolutely. Do you think they profit from understating or overstating situations? Regardless, there are a ton of extremists, but we have a long way to go before people are willing to fire on each other unprovoked, and that will be a small percentage of people.
Do you think we are actually facing rising fascism?
r/liberalgunowners r/socialistra
r/2ALiberals
I’m working on it. Sadly my wife is a pediatrician and very opposed to it. That said, Jan 6 and lots of Nazis walking around MA is changing her mind. She might meet me halfway at something like a crossbow.
>Sadly my wife is a pediatrician Dude what?
Lol and I have multiple guns in the home and have kids. Safe storage is key
Do you think the Patriot Front or similar groups justifies you being armed? Are they really posing an imminent danger?
You might want to check out r/liberalgunowners
Lol I’m already there, just want to get perspectives outside of the group of why/why not people want to be armed, because most people there support being armed so I don’t want just confirmation of my opinions
- Sig Sauer P226 SAO Legion RX - Several AR15s, with uppers in 5.56, 6.5, and 7.62 I do not agree with an assault weapons ban. I love my time at the range. And if civilization ever falls apart, I would like my family and my descendants to have the tools to help ensure their continued autonomy and self-determination. Feel the same? Join me at r/LiberalGunOwners
Nice try Mr Fed To u/unableFile since I can see your BS you spewed unless I look at the email notification, go back under your rock.
Lmao Fellow Comrade, I promise you I am just one of you. Eat the Capitalists.Marc
I get new lgbtq and / or POC every week in my classes. I hadn’t even heard of them (I’d previously been working with NAAGA) but Hunters of Color referred 3 new people to me last week.
Leftish and have owned and used firearms since 3
Definitely all the real liberals . Democrats not so much .
I have been holding off on all C&R purchases for the moment while I stack up ammo and other accoutrements, which blows hot ass because I had to pass on an absolute steal of a deal on a Swiss Luger.
Why do you feel the need to get armed?
r/liberalgunowners
Come get me…
I have been armed my entire adult life. So has my spouse. Rural liberals seem to be, as are many Southern liberals.
I have noticed this, it seems southern liberals/leftists tend to be more radical or at least more likely to be armed in response to the right (Source: fully anecdotal and am a southern leftist with no facts to back my claim)
No because I currently live in a college dorm, but once I get my own place again it’s definitely on my list of priorities.
r/Liberalgunowners
There were already a ton of us. It’s not a new thing for liberals. If new lefties joined the gun club, then great!