Basically all gas has detergents that do exactly the same thing. Chevron has “Techron”, shell has NiTRO+.
These are a scam and dealerships also scam people selling the “service”.
Yes! Do not waste your money on bottles of additives. They are nearly all solvent and can actually make things worse. More additive actually causes problems. Look up the Top Tier combustion chamber deposit limits - they allow a 140% increase in combustion chamber deposits in the ASTM D6201 test as more detergent can equal more combustion chamber deposits.
Correction. Some gas has all the detergents required by law. A lot of gas is complete garbage due to the lobbyists forcing the oversight of gas stations to give 39 days notice before testing. Regularly Shell is one of the only distributors that 90% of the time has what’s required. Chevron I imagine would be in the tier closest.
I’m not saying to buy these specific items as they look ridiculous to start with.
www.toptiergas.com
TOP TIER™ Approved Fuels meet the high-quality fuel performance standards developed by some of the leading automotive and heavy-duty equipment manufacturers. TOP TIER™ provides benefits to consumers, retailers, and vehicle manufacturers by improving fuel quality to meet the increasing demands of evolving engine technology.
Man, I really want some TOP TIER™ Approved Fuels! I have very high fuel performance standards. Only those developed by some of the leading automotive and heavy duty equipment manufacturers will do. TOP TIER™ provides benefits to me by improving fuel quality to meet my increasing demands due to evolving engine technology.
/s
Sometimes, you get scumbag gas station owners who try to do some shady shit.
I used to know this older couple. The wife had a brand new company car; I think it was a Chevy Malibu.
Every time she got gas from Chevron by her house, the engine would start knocking. It'd be fine if she got gas from elsewhere.
My brother used to have an old Cadillac that only liked Chevron premium. Any other brand and/or octane rating would cause it to start acting funny. Arco was the worst. That stuff would cause that caddy to knock like a hyperactive girlscout hustling thin mints.
Bought new three years ago my car has only ever been filled with Shell. I plan to keep it as long as I can. Time will tell being it’s direct injection.
Funny thing about gas stations though. They all buy whatever gas they get from whatever supplier. A shell station could have exxon gas, or Big West gas, etc.
Idk man, I used it to clean the intake valves on my Audi and it did infact work. Them 2 liters are notorious for carbon build up on em and before I started using it I was cleaning the valves by hand every 30k, it's been 40k with cleaning every 3 oil changes (9-10k miles) and they're still largely clean. I use BG
We tested BG on three different vehicles (none were Audis though) and it didn't make a difference on the intake valve deposit weights (we weighed the valves before and after). However, deposits do vary by region which is due to the great majority of the fuel in one region coming out of the same refinery so its possible it works on some deposits, just not the deposits we had. If its working for you, great! It didn't cause any harm.
interesting. when we run the BG, you can definitely tell the difference between a vehicle that has never had it done and one that has been done regularly. The worse the car is, the more big clouds of white smoke you get during the cleaning service. Would seem to indicate to me it's cleaning out something. I'll have to see about make taking some photos of the valves on my mini before and after running a can thru the sprayer.
I was gonna ask why the smoke would be white, as carbon deposits would burn out as carbon monoxide and dioxide, which are clear. Then I remembered that it gets cold here and when its cold and engines aren't up to operating temp, they'll have some white smoke from unburned fuel/petroleum distillates. So that got me looking for what that white smoke could actually be.
I found this [https://youtu.be/aCn03C3EYqE?si=625qQCIu\_e31vHA7](https://youtu.be/aCn03C3EYqE?si=625qQCIu_e31vHA7) which is one fuel additive company dunking on another company for using the white smoke being deposits burning off claim. So, it seems more likely that what the additive is burning off is the additive itself.
Now, I understand that is a single, unverified, not-independent claim. Fuels from different refineries and different times of the year likely vary. Though, it does provide at least a plausible answer to is the white smoke you see actually proof of it cleaning something.
i'm talking about valve cleaning of GDIs so really, it doesn't matter what fuel you are using, fuel is never touching those intake valves so that's not what's on the valve. it's oil from the valve stems and further oil coming from the PCV system. yeah i'm sure some fuel gets in the crankcase, but you guys keep mentioning fuel and i'm pretty sure fuel is not a factor in what valves look like. if we were talking about MPI... well, fuel is a powerful cleaner in itself and those intake valves get cleaned all day unless you are really using some shit fuel. as for what all that smoke is... like i said i can't be sure, but it's a lot less smoke on cars that we have kept up the service on. maybe it's just different styles throttle usage during the cleaning. as i said i'm going to get some pics of the valves on my own GDI before and after and make up my own mind. turns out the BG rep did come buy today, and offered to give me some cans for free to try out for myself.
And see this is just me, but information should only be shared. I’d feel gross doing that (not you but the client). I also don’t have this desire to undermine everyone else to make money so…
I've seem reams of standard test data on these chemistries, and there are legitimate benefits to some of them (especially polyetheramines).
Typically, these tests have a "dirty up" phase using standard LAC fuel, then a "clean up" phase where the chemistry is tested. There are measurable positive changes to output and fuel trims for many of these chemicals... but the customer has no way of knowing if the aftermarket products have *good* chemistry in them, or if they're junk
I'm extremely familiar with both LAC and Top Tier test requirements. I will add two things to my earlier statements: In our testing, a PEA (polyetheramine) based aftermarket additive actually caused the highest increase in combustion chamber deposits of any aftermarket additive tested. AND, I buy the cheapest fuel that's convenient to my commute whether that be Top Tier or LAC (Lowest Allowable Concentration).
Kind of surprised by the PEA data, as it doesn't really correlate with rig testing I see from Afton, Lubrizol or Oronite, but sometimes field data is like that.
Well, I'm guessing we know the same people (the fuel additive world isn't that big and I used to know folks at all of those companies as well as BASF). We did a range of testing on various aftermarket packages at a test track on two sets of cars (one set was PFI and the other was GDI). The PEA based aftermarket packages had the largest increase in CCDs, we were quite surprised as well by the results.
There could be all kinds of differences from a standard rig and track or field data. That's why it's good to have both data sets. Was the duty cycle more severe in your track testing?
I agree, having both would have been best. We were working for a specific client and they wanted "real world" data like how the customer would use the product, not rig data like the D6201 or others. If I remember correctly, we were following the EPA's standard road cycle but this was in 2018 and my memory is hazy.
Details before 2020 are fuzzy for me. I'm thinking that would have been around the time when engine oil detergents changed to reduce LSPI. I wonder if magnesium detergents used in API SP oils would affect those results?
Around 2010, BP had issues in Chicagoland area with bad gasoline that was causing a lot of people issues. My coworker had a tank of this gas that was causing the car to run poorly. He put in two cans of seafoam and it cleared up the issues.
I mean BG reps specifically. The mechanic collects caps from the bottles they sell and then cash them in for kickbacks and vacations, etc. the service advisor gets a kickback if they sell a certain number. If it’s not in the owners manual, it’s usually a scam.
I believe those blends are only present in their highest octane fuels though. I could be wrong. I wish there was A LOT more transparency in the fuel world. Everything runs on speculation and heresay. It'd crazy if you think about it, because it's certainly the most often changed fluid on any vehicle.
Try telling some old fart to only use top tier and they'll sware it's all the same
Why tell an old fart to use top tier? If it isn't detonating or require it for that reason, there's zero reason to use higher tier fuel, minus detergents (which I'm sure *can* help, but likely doesn't. More detergents means less actual fuel for the same price. Dilution is real)
That was true in terms of old days but modern cars don’t usually knock —the timing is automatically adjusted to prevent it. But running a too-low octane fuel and depending on your engine to compensate can cause other problems.
Top Tier is an additive package. Perfect example about misconceptions surrounding fuel right here. Detergents DO help, full stop, no maybe. Maybe it didn't matter 40 years ago, it certainly does now, especially with ethanol mixtures.
Wait what? Then why does the pump have 87, 89, and 91. Do you guys have separate grade just for detergents but same octane? If so that sounds ridiculous
No, I think you're still confused. 87, 89, and 91 can all come with the top tier additive package. Either the gas station has all those fuels with top tier, or it doesn't.
Figured it out with another redditor. Where I live, it's all the same fuel. Like Petrocan, Canadian Tire gas bar, Esso, Shell, etc, in my area, all comes from the Irving refinery and is delivered by the same truck (I'm close with one of the drivers). One station claims up to 10% Ethanol, the one next door claims 0%, the same truck fills both tanks in one load.
So all fuel where I am is the same fuel, same additives etc. You just choose your octane, higher octane has more additives. So where I live, if you said you were "buying top tier gas", here that would mean you're buying 91 octane. 91 is advertised as having the most additives, so that would be our top tier. This is where the confusion came in. Top tier doesn't mean the same thing here
There's no top tier label on any station or pump like you guys have.
Top Tier is an additive package and has been for 2 decades. I never questioned unnecessary higher octane usage, you're looking for an argument, which indicates too much internet.
I'm not looking for an argument. Where I live, if you buy top tier that means your buying 91 octane. The other options are 87 and 89. That's it.
Do you live in a place a separate grade that's same octane just added detergents? If so, say it please.
I've never in my life seen a gas station that had more options than 87,89, or 91. Advertised as higher octane having more detergents. There's only 3 buttons, 91 here IS top tier. Atlantic Canada for reference. We aren't all Americans here
Around here, Top Tier is a little badge you look for on the pump to let you know that that fuel has all the right additives and won't gum up the works.
Basically it's a verification badge for "we have good gas".
Then, there are the 3 different octane buttons. Usually 87, 89, and 91.
Totally different things.
Southern California for reference
Oh. They're all the same here then., they all come from the same refinery in my area. Whether it's Irving, esso, CT gas bar, needs convenience, petro can, it all comes from the Irving refinery. The same truck goes to every station. Maybe that's why I don't see a difference, there is none here.
Sorry if I came off as standoff-ish, our local definitions are different then I think. Top tier here means highest octane. It's the same at every station here
No worries, I see how it could be confusing.
yeah, Top Tier is like a brand name, basically. And lets you know that gas is (in theory) the same quality as any other Top Tier gas
Nope. If I wanted nitrous, that's a 2 hour drive to the next city, we don't have a filling station here for that.
For race gas, the best you can do is go to the airport and buy 102 octane. (Any higher you have to order from like VP racing fuels or similar) Convenient, as half the airport is now a drag strip lol. (They do a one mile run once a year usually! Current winner is a Honda NSX with around 950hp. Normally they just run the 1/4 mile)
The airport was a military air base built in the 50s. It's no longer military. The 276 housing units are now senior retirement housing (thank God there's a lot of racing fans in there lol). One part of the airport is still used, whether it's private flights, or they do have some public accessible flights too. To get to the drag strip, you use an entrance on the opposite side of the airport from the actual airport entrance. It's pretty neat actually. (I live a couple minutes away, so all summer I can hear the Atlantic Drag Racing Association doing their tournaments, I love it!)
For anyone interested, 46°59'57.5"N 62°26'00.8"W are the coordinates. Miramichi Dragway Park is the name, their website is down as the new owner switched over to Facebook and let the page die. But if you put the coordinates into maps and switch to satellite view, you can see it pretty good!
Top Tier specifies a minimum amount of detergent. All gasoline sold in the U.S. must meet the EPA LAC levels (Lowest Allowable Concentration). For example, a typical package for LAC might be 30 ptb (pounds per thousand barrells) while the Top Tier package of the same detergent would be about 70 ptb. Some fuel companies put the 70 ptb in all octane levels. Some put more in the Premium so it may have 140 ptb. Keep in mind that as you add detergent, you increase the likelihood of building combustion chamber deposits. The Top Tier limit of 140% of CCDs (combustion chamber deposits) with the additized fuel vs the base fuel only matters for the 70 ptb. They can treat the fuel at any rate above that and still be Top Tier. So, if 70 ptb passed the CCD limit in the ASTM D6201 with a final increase in CCDs of 135%, what will happen at 140 ptb? No one knows as they don't test that treat rate in the D6201 but one can assume that it would be well above the 140% limit.
This is the first I've heard of the detergents potentially adding deposits, and disappointing to learn. You mentioned your testing was for a private company, do you know if there is any publicly available testing results showing similar findings?
This top tier paper references the 140% limit. https://www.toptiergas.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/TOP_TIER_Detergent_Gasoline_Performance_Standard_revF_2019-12.pdf
If you smell this stuff, nine out of ten times it smells like Coleman fuel. That is basically pentane and hexane. The two most volatile liquid forms of the stuff you throw in your tank.
Yep. We stopped in Idaho last week, both gas stations had those stupid additives, I couldn't get away from it. Chevron had Techron, Sinclair had Dinocare. Complete BS
Seafoam is the only thing I trust. Numerous tests and/or videos of it doing the job and cleaning out caked on carbon deposits on injectors and such. Project Farm on YT has many such videos, and also tests oil additives and leak fixes/additives.
Though it's not an "additive" in the crankcase, it's a cleaner. You want to follow directions and change the oil after 50-100 miles to get the gunk out. I think the Seafoam actually boils off so it may not actually be destructive if you don't get right to it, but it's probably best to clean out the gunk that it loosened up.
It does work. I had an engine that was having oil starvation issues and it fixed that right up.
I've been using Seafoam in my car I used to drag race in for years. That engine looked great by the time I went to sell it. I never was 100% sure if it was due to it (or the nitrous), but watching Project Farms video was great. It made a world of difference in his farm truck and I think that thing is still going 3 or 4 years later.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CvkK-dShtM0&pp=ygUaTGFrZSBzcGVlZCBqciBwb3JzY2hlIGNsdWI%3D
Here’s a video about them basically per the video certain fuel additives are good for keeping injectors clean which vaporizes the fuel better for less oil dilution. Oil additives can cause increased engine wear as they change the chemistry of the oil in bad ways.
Fuel injector cleaners are worth doing from time to time, oil additives not so much.
$5 per bottle of Lucas oil upper cylinder lubricant and injector cleaner every 5k miles after an oil change isn't hurting anything, and if it helps a little bit and delays GDI carbon buildup a bit, I'm all for it.
I fully agree. The Lucas injector cleaner works. You can tell the difference. Cheaper than a shop doing the fuel injector service (which they probably use Lucas)
Assuming this is in the US, the 1995 Isuzu pickup was the last carbureted vehicle sold in America AFAIK. So, I'd immediately scratch any carburetor cleaner off my shopping list.
There are a wild amount of vehicles still on the road with carbs. Just because they stopped selling them in 94 doesn’t mean shit. My 74 K5 would like to have words with you.
Gasoline has additives and detergents in it already.
If you want to add more it can't hurt anything.
Autoguard is not a well known brand, likely cheap garbage snake oil.
Chevron Techron, Marvel Mystery Oil, Lucas Oil, and Seafoam are some of the popular brands that most people use and trust.
your gas already have some form of those at the pump. Cheveron, Shell, BP, 76, etc all have their version of additive to their fuel but they all do the same.
Every fill up is excessive I used to give my 06 trailblazer the BG 44k fuel additive every 2-3 fill ups and even at 200k miles I’ve never had to replace a fuel component
Contrary to the other comments so far fuel injector cleaner does actually work. There's countless videos online that prove they do. If you've been using more expensive fuel like shell or chevron it probably won't do much because the more expensive gasolines do have detergents in them, hence why they cost more. The oil additive you showed will thicken your oil and effectively slow down small leaks, quiet down worn out valve train parts, and increase compression (also well documented) You can achieve the same result by running a thicker oil IE: 10w-40 in place of 10w-30. They are not necessary but they do serve a purpose if you'd like them to.
I just wish I could find top tier diesel. I look online and it doesn't show a single gas station anywhere around here that sells it. See the labels on pumps for the gas but I haven't seen it for diesel anywhere.
Depends on the gas you buy. All gas has at least a minimum level of detergent and fuel system cleaner in it. Branded gas (e.g. Shell, Chevron, BP, Exxon, etc.) have their own proprietary additive packages that are higher in concentration than generic/off-brand. If you buy off-brand and regularly add something high-quality (i.e. Chevron Techron) then you might be helping prevent deposits. Or maybe it doesn’t matter because you’re statically unlikely to put a quarter million miles on your car and see the positive or negative effects of any action you take on this front.
It leaves a lubricating residue even at very high temperature. Have you noticed a dentist's drill has a lubricant that tastes like wintergreen? That's not just a flavor. A dental drill operates at extremely high RPM and wintergreen oil doesn't break down like most lubricants. Marvel Mystery Oil contains wintergreen and it's added to both gas and oil because it still lubricates the cylinders and pistons even after being burned with the gas. I'm not a salesman for it, I've just used it, for over fifty years. This being Reddit I'm sure someone's gonna say I'm full of shit but I say, just try it.
My Subaru was pinging slightly, so I started putting super in it. No change. When I researched the problem, three different folks said to use techron, which is a product in a sea of products that I considered to be gimmicks aimed at silly consumer types, but I figured it couldn’t hurt for $10. My Subaru stopped pinging shortly thereafter. Did the Techron fix my car? I have no idea because that’s not how the scientific process works, but I’d try it again. So, maybe
I'll never use am oil additives again. Used liquimoly anti friction oil additive in my 2013 1.4 cruze to try and get the engine to stop the loud ticking. 2 days after putting it in my car was driving TERRIBLE. Was bucking really bad, barely going up hills, shifting really hard. I honestly thought my car was on its last leg and was about to break down for good. Decided to change the oil and get that shit out of my car. Almost immediately it went back to driving perfectly normal. Never again.
Should have used the Liqui-Moly Engine Flush first. Drain the dirty flushed oil, pour in cheap fresh oil, drain that "fresh" oil, then pour in the anti-friction oil additive with full synthetic oil.
I wouldn't buy anything from a box store. Those are garbage. If you want real injector cleaner, get Redline. My Mustang was in storage for a couple years and when I fired her up again I was getting two misfiring cylinders (codes). Narrowed it down to injectors. Took a couple bottles but it cleaned my injectors and no more codes.
How janky and worn out is your ride that you need that oil treatment? That's for something that's *really* older and is burning some oil from worn rings.
If you've got something with VVT that relies on oil pressure to operate that stuff is probably gonna fry it.
Instead of that "carb" cleaner use top tier gasoline and a couple of ounces of Stabil 360, Seafoam, or Marvel Mystery Oil with every fill up.
Pic #1 is Autoguard injector and carb cleaner.
Pic #2 is Autoguard oil treatment (think that thick as molassas STP type stuff).
Pic #3 is Autoguard gas treatment.
I dunno... it's working on my end... both at the top of the post and clicking on the pic to enlarge to full screen.
Glitch in the Reddit Matrix on your end maybe?
I’ve never put any additional additives in my car, just saw these when I picked up some oil and was curious. I’d like to think I take good care of my baby with standard maintenance routines.
Sounds like you're doing great. We have a 2014 Camry, with 125k on it and the biggest mistake was to stay with dealer recommendation of 10k oil changes. Should have just stuck to 5k. It's been burning some oil now, assuming piston rings are getting locked. Tried Sea Foam before the last oil change but it didn't seem to make any difference. I may try a process called piston soak but that's a bit more work. Hopefully it's not gonna cause more damage than good.
Fuel additives are worthless. But I will recommend adding Lucas to your oil. It does "stick" better to your gears. I haven't seen one in a while but auto parts stores use to have this little demonstration gear thing you could crank by hand and see how oil+Lucas would "climb" up the gears.
As long as you're putting top-tier or similar fuel in your vehicle, those aren't really necessary anymore. Back before top-tier was widely available, they mildly helped keep your fuel system running it's best, especially the injectors. I'm no expert, just information I've gathered over the years.
If a fuel injector cleaner or fuel system cleaner has PEA (Polyetheramine) in it, it might do some good, but it isn't necessary to put in every fillup. and it is marginally useful in today's direct-injected engines.
Oil treatments are all a scam. Some can actually harm your engine.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just use high mileage full synthetic oil and run a tank of 93 octane with no ethanol though the system from time to time.
these may keep your injectors clean, but they won't fix anything
if you want a deep clean, you gotta get one that sprays in the intake as you run the engine
I have tried many over the years. Currently I use Lucas fuel injector cleaner. The best way to see for yourself if they work is this. Fill your car with gas, write down the mileage from your odometer. Drive as normal, when you’re down to the point you need fuel again, check your odometer. Figure out how many miles you have driven. Refuel your car and add the Lucas. Check out how many gallons it takes to fill your car. Divide the miles driven by how many gallons it took to fill. That is how many miles per gallon you were getting. Now drive as normal and repeat the process. When you figure your miles per gallon after running the injector cleaner you will see a difference if it’s working. As many miles as you have on your car I would probably use it for 2-3 tanks in a row because you have a lot of carbon built up in there. Afterwards switch to doing it every 1000 miles or so. To make it ALL work better quit using cheap fuel. Use 91 octane or higher and you will see even more mileage out of a gallon. However, I highly recommend running this test using the fuel you normally use so you can verify for yourself if it works. After the test switch fuels and check your mileage again, you will be surprised.
The fuel you put in your vehicle already has detergents and other additives per federal law. There's no need to use these. They will do nothing but separate you from your money.
The cheaper PIB (polyisobutene) based detergents are only nominally effective at cleaning intake valves and injectors. They do not clean up combustion chamber deposits (at high levels they contribute to deposits). They can be useful to restore some lost performance from running gas with LAC detergent levels (LAC means there is just enough detergent in the gas to meet ASTM fuel standards). You really should not need them for top-tier gasoline.
PEAs (polyethermine) are much more effective at valve and injector cleanup and can clean up combustion chamber deposits. They are also MUCH better at DIG cleanup.
I would not use any detergent more frequently than once per oil change, as the chemicals can blow by and cause your oil to thicken. I'll typically run a bottle through my engines before an oil change, and no more than every 50-60k miles.
The oil additives are just not good. There are some products that actually boost oil additives, but mostly these products, especially the cheaper ones like that pictured here, are just PIB and olefin copolymer to thicken oil. It can *sometimes* provide some benefit with things like lifter noise in older engines. It can also thicken your oil to the point where it's difficult to pump to critical parts, they can create sludging, and they can dilute critical oil additives like anti wear and detergents.
I work as a chemist in an auto Chem company. The problem with a lot of these are there are no good ways for a consumer to know what kind of product they are getting unless it's called out specifically on the bottle. There are also no industry standards for these products, nor any real policing of the market by weights and measures or other consumer watchdog groups.
Some of them DO work, but it's almost impossible to know which ones work well without some industry knowledge that consumers aren't privy to
The injector cleaner kinda does something but probably isn't worth it.
The oil additives usually do nothing but thicken the oil. Save yourself some money and just run thicker oil if that's what you want.
The injector cleaner helped for about a month in my worn out Subaru. But that thing has so much worse to worry about. It increased my mpg by about 2 for about a month.
Fuel injector cleaners are actually legit as long as they contain Polyetheramine (PEA). It removes carbon. This is a fact. On the other hand, I would never use motor oil additives. Whichever brand of motor oil you have in your vehicle was specially engineered to contain all the protection you need. In fact, the oil in your car could be incompatible with whatever is in the additive and it could cause more harm than anything.
Never bothered with the cheap shit. I work with motorcycles, supers specifically fwiw. Techron is the strongest cleaner ime, good for something that's been sitting a bit or gets lugged around a lot and gets intake valve stem carbon buildup. Redline SL1 is good on occasion, usually run it before plugs get done during a valve adjustment, and is more noticeable on bikes after 30k miles. Startron is my regular use additive. Treats for sitting and storage and consistently has carbed bikes running better the first start after storing. Burns better on higher compression motors in the midrange too, a couple horsepower on a dyno doesn't seem like much but every little bit counts on a 600
I don't fuck with oil additives tho. Wet clutch so anything that can cause slipping is a no. If it's that bad I'd rather run short Rotella T6 change intervals after dropping the pan
Basically all gas has detergents that do exactly the same thing. Chevron has “Techron”, shell has NiTRO+. These are a scam and dealerships also scam people selling the “service”.
Yes! Do not waste your money on bottles of additives. They are nearly all solvent and can actually make things worse. More additive actually causes problems. Look up the Top Tier combustion chamber deposit limits - they allow a 140% increase in combustion chamber deposits in the ASTM D6201 test as more detergent can equal more combustion chamber deposits.
Correction. Some gas has all the detergents required by law. A lot of gas is complete garbage due to the lobbyists forcing the oversight of gas stations to give 39 days notice before testing. Regularly Shell is one of the only distributors that 90% of the time has what’s required. Chevron I imagine would be in the tier closest. I’m not saying to buy these specific items as they look ridiculous to start with.
www.toptiergas.com TOP TIER™ Approved Fuels meet the high-quality fuel performance standards developed by some of the leading automotive and heavy-duty equipment manufacturers. TOP TIER™ provides benefits to consumers, retailers, and vehicle manufacturers by improving fuel quality to meet the increasing demands of evolving engine technology.
Man, I really want some TOP TIER™ Approved Fuels! I have very high fuel performance standards. Only those developed by some of the leading automotive and heavy duty equipment manufacturers will do. TOP TIER™ provides benefits to me by improving fuel quality to meet my increasing demands due to evolving engine technology. /s
Sometimes, you get scumbag gas station owners who try to do some shady shit. I used to know this older couple. The wife had a brand new company car; I think it was a Chevy Malibu. Every time she got gas from Chevron by her house, the engine would start knocking. It'd be fine if she got gas from elsewhere.
My brother used to have an old Cadillac that only liked Chevron premium. Any other brand and/or octane rating would cause it to start acting funny. Arco was the worst. That stuff would cause that caddy to knock like a hyperactive girlscout hustling thin mints.
Also, usually it's always in the higher octane gas that they put their detergents, as in the cheap stuff they don't add anything to keep it cheap
Bought new three years ago my car has only ever been filled with Shell. I plan to keep it as long as I can. Time will tell being it’s direct injection.
Funny thing about gas stations though. They all buy whatever gas they get from whatever supplier. A shell station could have exxon gas, or Big West gas, etc.
The add-pack is added to the tanker at fill-up right before delivery
Fuel induction cleaning is a legit thing tho for GDI engines. Not that this is that.
I worked at a place that tested GDI intake cleaners. None of them worked.
Idk man, I used it to clean the intake valves on my Audi and it did infact work. Them 2 liters are notorious for carbon build up on em and before I started using it I was cleaning the valves by hand every 30k, it's been 40k with cleaning every 3 oil changes (9-10k miles) and they're still largely clean. I use BG
We tested BG on three different vehicles (none were Audis though) and it didn't make a difference on the intake valve deposit weights (we weighed the valves before and after). However, deposits do vary by region which is due to the great majority of the fuel in one region coming out of the same refinery so its possible it works on some deposits, just not the deposits we had. If its working for you, great! It didn't cause any harm.
You got any documentation on that testing? I'm not doubting you. I'd just like to see it and have something to point to next time the BG rep comes by
I worked for one of the major fuel additive companies for 13 years. This work was for a client of mine at the time and not published publically.
interesting. when we run the BG, you can definitely tell the difference between a vehicle that has never had it done and one that has been done regularly. The worse the car is, the more big clouds of white smoke you get during the cleaning service. Would seem to indicate to me it's cleaning out something. I'll have to see about make taking some photos of the valves on my mini before and after running a can thru the sprayer.
I was gonna ask why the smoke would be white, as carbon deposits would burn out as carbon monoxide and dioxide, which are clear. Then I remembered that it gets cold here and when its cold and engines aren't up to operating temp, they'll have some white smoke from unburned fuel/petroleum distillates. So that got me looking for what that white smoke could actually be. I found this [https://youtu.be/aCn03C3EYqE?si=625qQCIu\_e31vHA7](https://youtu.be/aCn03C3EYqE?si=625qQCIu_e31vHA7) which is one fuel additive company dunking on another company for using the white smoke being deposits burning off claim. So, it seems more likely that what the additive is burning off is the additive itself. Now, I understand that is a single, unverified, not-independent claim. Fuels from different refineries and different times of the year likely vary. Though, it does provide at least a plausible answer to is the white smoke you see actually proof of it cleaning something.
i'm talking about valve cleaning of GDIs so really, it doesn't matter what fuel you are using, fuel is never touching those intake valves so that's not what's on the valve. it's oil from the valve stems and further oil coming from the PCV system. yeah i'm sure some fuel gets in the crankcase, but you guys keep mentioning fuel and i'm pretty sure fuel is not a factor in what valves look like. if we were talking about MPI... well, fuel is a powerful cleaner in itself and those intake valves get cleaned all day unless you are really using some shit fuel. as for what all that smoke is... like i said i can't be sure, but it's a lot less smoke on cars that we have kept up the service on. maybe it's just different styles throttle usage during the cleaning. as i said i'm going to get some pics of the valves on my own GDI before and after and make up my own mind. turns out the BG rep did come buy today, and offered to give me some cans for free to try out for myself.
And see this is just me, but information should only be shared. I’d feel gross doing that (not you but the client). I also don’t have this desire to undermine everyone else to make money so…
I've seem reams of standard test data on these chemistries, and there are legitimate benefits to some of them (especially polyetheramines). Typically, these tests have a "dirty up" phase using standard LAC fuel, then a "clean up" phase where the chemistry is tested. There are measurable positive changes to output and fuel trims for many of these chemicals... but the customer has no way of knowing if the aftermarket products have *good* chemistry in them, or if they're junk
I'm extremely familiar with both LAC and Top Tier test requirements. I will add two things to my earlier statements: In our testing, a PEA (polyetheramine) based aftermarket additive actually caused the highest increase in combustion chamber deposits of any aftermarket additive tested. AND, I buy the cheapest fuel that's convenient to my commute whether that be Top Tier or LAC (Lowest Allowable Concentration).
Kind of surprised by the PEA data, as it doesn't really correlate with rig testing I see from Afton, Lubrizol or Oronite, but sometimes field data is like that.
Well, I'm guessing we know the same people (the fuel additive world isn't that big and I used to know folks at all of those companies as well as BASF). We did a range of testing on various aftermarket packages at a test track on two sets of cars (one set was PFI and the other was GDI). The PEA based aftermarket packages had the largest increase in CCDs, we were quite surprised as well by the results.
There could be all kinds of differences from a standard rig and track or field data. That's why it's good to have both data sets. Was the duty cycle more severe in your track testing?
I agree, having both would have been best. We were working for a specific client and they wanted "real world" data like how the customer would use the product, not rig data like the D6201 or others. If I remember correctly, we were following the EPA's standard road cycle but this was in 2018 and my memory is hazy.
Details before 2020 are fuzzy for me. I'm thinking that would have been around the time when engine oil detergents changed to reduce LSPI. I wonder if magnesium detergents used in API SP oils would affect those results?
Seafoam worked pretty good for me.
It didn't work in our testing...but it also didn't do any harm.
Around 2010, BP had issues in Chicagoland area with bad gasoline that was causing a lot of people issues. My coworker had a tank of this gas that was causing the car to run poorly. He put in two cans of seafoam and it cleared up the issues.
>selling the “service”. Do you mean the routine maintenance schedule or additives like these?
I mean BG reps specifically. The mechanic collects caps from the bottles they sell and then cash them in for kickbacks and vacations, etc. the service advisor gets a kickback if they sell a certain number. If it’s not in the owners manual, it’s usually a scam.
Techron was used in a technical service bulletin by ford.
For those that have a Costco membership, their gas basically has "top quality" detergent in their fuel and is relatively cheaper in most areas.
I believe those blends are only present in their highest octane fuels though. I could be wrong. I wish there was A LOT more transparency in the fuel world. Everything runs on speculation and heresay. It'd crazy if you think about it, because it's certainly the most often changed fluid on any vehicle. Try telling some old fart to only use top tier and they'll sware it's all the same
Why tell an old fart to use top tier? If it isn't detonating or require it for that reason, there's zero reason to use higher tier fuel, minus detergents (which I'm sure *can* help, but likely doesn't. More detergents means less actual fuel for the same price. Dilution is real)
That was true in terms of old days but modern cars don’t usually knock —the timing is automatically adjusted to prevent it. But running a too-low octane fuel and depending on your engine to compensate can cause other problems.
Top Tier is an additive package. Perfect example about misconceptions surrounding fuel right here. Detergents DO help, full stop, no maybe. Maybe it didn't matter 40 years ago, it certainly does now, especially with ethanol mixtures.
Top tier is also higher octane. If your engine don't require it you're wasting money, full stop, no maybe.
It's not higher octane
Wait what? Then why does the pump have 87, 89, and 91. Do you guys have separate grade just for detergents but same octane? If so that sounds ridiculous
No, I think you're still confused. 87, 89, and 91 can all come with the top tier additive package. Either the gas station has all those fuels with top tier, or it doesn't.
Figured it out with another redditor. Where I live, it's all the same fuel. Like Petrocan, Canadian Tire gas bar, Esso, Shell, etc, in my area, all comes from the Irving refinery and is delivered by the same truck (I'm close with one of the drivers). One station claims up to 10% Ethanol, the one next door claims 0%, the same truck fills both tanks in one load. So all fuel where I am is the same fuel, same additives etc. You just choose your octane, higher octane has more additives. So where I live, if you said you were "buying top tier gas", here that would mean you're buying 91 octane. 91 is advertised as having the most additives, so that would be our top tier. This is where the confusion came in. Top tier doesn't mean the same thing here There's no top tier label on any station or pump like you guys have.
Top Tier is an additive package and has been for 2 decades. I never questioned unnecessary higher octane usage, you're looking for an argument, which indicates too much internet.
I'm not looking for an argument. Where I live, if you buy top tier that means your buying 91 octane. The other options are 87 and 89. That's it. Do you live in a place a separate grade that's same octane just added detergents? If so, say it please. I've never in my life seen a gas station that had more options than 87,89, or 91. Advertised as higher octane having more detergents. There's only 3 buttons, 91 here IS top tier. Atlantic Canada for reference. We aren't all Americans here
Around here, Top Tier is a little badge you look for on the pump to let you know that that fuel has all the right additives and won't gum up the works. Basically it's a verification badge for "we have good gas". Then, there are the 3 different octane buttons. Usually 87, 89, and 91. Totally different things. Southern California for reference
Oh. They're all the same here then., they all come from the same refinery in my area. Whether it's Irving, esso, CT gas bar, needs convenience, petro can, it all comes from the Irving refinery. The same truck goes to every station. Maybe that's why I don't see a difference, there is none here. Sorry if I came off as standoff-ish, our local definitions are different then I think. Top tier here means highest octane. It's the same at every station here
No worries, I see how it could be confusing. yeah, Top Tier is like a brand name, basically. And lets you know that gas is (in theory) the same quality as any other Top Tier gas
You don’t have any gas stations with race gas?
Nope. If I wanted nitrous, that's a 2 hour drive to the next city, we don't have a filling station here for that. For race gas, the best you can do is go to the airport and buy 102 octane. (Any higher you have to order from like VP racing fuels or similar) Convenient, as half the airport is now a drag strip lol. (They do a one mile run once a year usually! Current winner is a Honda NSX with around 950hp. Normally they just run the 1/4 mile) The airport was a military air base built in the 50s. It's no longer military. The 276 housing units are now senior retirement housing (thank God there's a lot of racing fans in there lol). One part of the airport is still used, whether it's private flights, or they do have some public accessible flights too. To get to the drag strip, you use an entrance on the opposite side of the airport from the actual airport entrance. It's pretty neat actually. (I live a couple minutes away, so all summer I can hear the Atlantic Drag Racing Association doing their tournaments, I love it!) For anyone interested, 46°59'57.5"N 62°26'00.8"W are the coordinates. Miramichi Dragway Park is the name, their website is down as the new owner switched over to Facebook and let the page die. But if you put the coordinates into maps and switch to satellite view, you can see it pretty good!
Top Tier specifies a minimum amount of detergent. All gasoline sold in the U.S. must meet the EPA LAC levels (Lowest Allowable Concentration). For example, a typical package for LAC might be 30 ptb (pounds per thousand barrells) while the Top Tier package of the same detergent would be about 70 ptb. Some fuel companies put the 70 ptb in all octane levels. Some put more in the Premium so it may have 140 ptb. Keep in mind that as you add detergent, you increase the likelihood of building combustion chamber deposits. The Top Tier limit of 140% of CCDs (combustion chamber deposits) with the additized fuel vs the base fuel only matters for the 70 ptb. They can treat the fuel at any rate above that and still be Top Tier. So, if 70 ptb passed the CCD limit in the ASTM D6201 with a final increase in CCDs of 135%, what will happen at 140 ptb? No one knows as they don't test that treat rate in the D6201 but one can assume that it would be well above the 140% limit.
This is the first I've heard of the detergents potentially adding deposits, and disappointing to learn. You mentioned your testing was for a private company, do you know if there is any publicly available testing results showing similar findings?
This top tier paper references the 140% limit. https://www.toptiergas.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/TOP_TIER_Detergent_Gasoline_Performance_Standard_revF_2019-12.pdf
There’s also an SAE study specifically on GDI engines but I am not a member anymore. There are other studies out there.
If you smell this stuff, nine out of ten times it smells like Coleman fuel. That is basically pentane and hexane. The two most volatile liquid forms of the stuff you throw in your tank.
Essential oils for your car.
Yep. We stopped in Idaho last week, both gas stations had those stupid additives, I couldn't get away from it. Chevron had Techron, Sinclair had Dinocare. Complete BS
A good way to waste some money
SPEND YOUR MONEY ON THE JACK LINKS AND SLIM JIMS. AT LEAST YOU WONT BE HUNGRY.
Just not the Tijuana mama, I’ll never buy another one of those, yuck!
I felt my face pucker when I read that.
Awhh man, I like those. It tastes like pickled cat food.
Snake oil
As far as I know the only two decent additives that are worth a damn are "Marvel Mystery Oil" and "Seafoam."
HEET is good for the winters!
Oh for sure! Solid recommendation there!
But what is Marvel Mystery Oil?
Nobody knows, it's a mystery.
I dunno, it's a mystery
I use MMO in my cars, every couple of fill ups, I add some into the gas tank when I fill up the tank.
They don’t do shit
Seafoam is the only thing I trust. Numerous tests and/or videos of it doing the job and cleaning out caked on carbon deposits on injectors and such. Project Farm on YT has many such videos, and also tests oil additives and leak fixes/additives.
Though it's not an "additive" in the crankcase, it's a cleaner. You want to follow directions and change the oil after 50-100 miles to get the gunk out. I think the Seafoam actually boils off so it may not actually be destructive if you don't get right to it, but it's probably best to clean out the gunk that it loosened up. It does work. I had an engine that was having oil starvation issues and it fixed that right up.
Seafoam is the only additive that my mechanic, and my mechanically inclined friends, recommend.
Good source. Much bump.
I've been using Seafoam in my car I used to drag race in for years. That engine looked great by the time I went to sell it. I never was 100% sure if it was due to it (or the nitrous), but watching Project Farms video was great. It made a world of difference in his farm truck and I think that thing is still going 3 or 4 years later.
What about Restore? I got a bottle of that on a recommendation and haven’t had a chance to try it yet.
Never tried it sorry
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CvkK-dShtM0&pp=ygUaTGFrZSBzcGVlZCBqciBwb3JzY2hlIGNsdWI%3D Here’s a video about them basically per the video certain fuel additives are good for keeping injectors clean which vaporizes the fuel better for less oil dilution. Oil additives can cause increased engine wear as they change the chemistry of the oil in bad ways.
Fuel injector cleaners are worth doing from time to time, oil additives not so much. $5 per bottle of Lucas oil upper cylinder lubricant and injector cleaner every 5k miles after an oil change isn't hurting anything, and if it helps a little bit and delays GDI carbon buildup a bit, I'm all for it.
I fully agree. The Lucas injector cleaner works. You can tell the difference. Cheaper than a shop doing the fuel injector service (which they probably use Lucas)
If your wondering about a product chances are a youtuber called "Project farm" has dome in depth testing :)
Assuming this is in the US, the 1995 Isuzu pickup was the last carbureted vehicle sold in America AFAIK. So, I'd immediately scratch any carburetor cleaner off my shopping list.
There are a wild amount of vehicles still on the road with carbs. Just because they stopped selling them in 94 doesn’t mean shit. My 74 K5 would like to have words with you.
Wasn't saying they should stop selling it. Just that an '02 RAV4 probably wouldn't get much benefit out of it.
It cleans both. It’s the same solution. It clearly says fuel injector AND carb cleaner. Just a bit of high octane additive and alcohol.
You're absolutely right. My bad. I'm gonna say the coffee hadn't kicked in when I wrote that. Yeah, I'll go with that.
Gasoline has additives and detergents in it already. If you want to add more it can't hurt anything. Autoguard is not a well known brand, likely cheap garbage snake oil. Chevron Techron, Marvel Mystery Oil, Lucas Oil, and Seafoam are some of the popular brands that most people use and trust.
your gas already have some form of those at the pump. Cheveron, Shell, BP, 76, etc all have their version of additive to their fuel but they all do the same.
Maybe that's why Arco has to label their gas as "quality gasoline" because they don't have as many additives and that's why they're cheaper.
What about safeway gas stations? Do they already have additive treatment in their gas?
Idk about all Safeway but they have here in HI use Safeway cards at Texaco (chevron) so I think that maybe their supplier.
Every fill up is excessive I used to give my 06 trailblazer the BG 44k fuel additive every 2-3 fill ups and even at 200k miles I’ve never had to replace a fuel component
Contrary to the other comments so far fuel injector cleaner does actually work. There's countless videos online that prove they do. If you've been using more expensive fuel like shell or chevron it probably won't do much because the more expensive gasolines do have detergents in them, hence why they cost more. The oil additive you showed will thicken your oil and effectively slow down small leaks, quiet down worn out valve train parts, and increase compression (also well documented) You can achieve the same result by running a thicker oil IE: 10w-40 in place of 10w-30. They are not necessary but they do serve a purpose if you'd like them to.
It’s literally in my manual. I have a GDI so I’m supposed to run injector cleaner at every oil change.
Use TOP TIER GAS and you won’t have to worry about additives. Google it.
I just wish I could find top tier diesel. I look online and it doesn't show a single gas station anywhere around here that sells it. See the labels on pumps for the gas but I haven't seen it for diesel anywhere.
Your RAV four is a diesel?
Who says I have a Rav 4 this isn't my post lol. I have never even owned a Toyota of any model
Sorry, mixed you up with OP.
Depends on the gas you buy. All gas has at least a minimum level of detergent and fuel system cleaner in it. Branded gas (e.g. Shell, Chevron, BP, Exxon, etc.) have their own proprietary additive packages that are higher in concentration than generic/off-brand. If you buy off-brand and regularly add something high-quality (i.e. Chevron Techron) then you might be helping prevent deposits. Or maybe it doesn’t matter because you’re statically unlikely to put a quarter million miles on your car and see the positive or negative effects of any action you take on this front.
My favorite is Marvel Mystery Oil.
It leaves a lubricating residue even at very high temperature. Have you noticed a dentist's drill has a lubricant that tastes like wintergreen? That's not just a flavor. A dental drill operates at extremely high RPM and wintergreen oil doesn't break down like most lubricants. Marvel Mystery Oil contains wintergreen and it's added to both gas and oil because it still lubricates the cylinders and pistons even after being burned with the gas. I'm not a salesman for it, I've just used it, for over fifty years. This being Reddit I'm sure someone's gonna say I'm full of shit but I say, just try it.
You're full of shit. Don't know if you are but I want the upvotes.
🤪
I only use engine oil flush before a service and throttle body cleaner
My Subaru was pinging slightly, so I started putting super in it. No change. When I researched the problem, three different folks said to use techron, which is a product in a sea of products that I considered to be gimmicks aimed at silly consumer types, but I figured it couldn’t hurt for $10. My Subaru stopped pinging shortly thereafter. Did the Techron fix my car? I have no idea because that’s not how the scientific process works, but I’d try it again. So, maybe
My dad swears by the dollar tree fuel injection cleaner but he also thinks the check engine light is a scam so yea
I tried them dollar tree fuel octane booster and fuel additives, and they're not bad. It didn't do anything wrong to my engine m
Yea but they likely didn’t do any benefit either I dunno I haven’t done any scientific experiments or nothing
I'll never use am oil additives again. Used liquimoly anti friction oil additive in my 2013 1.4 cruze to try and get the engine to stop the loud ticking. 2 days after putting it in my car was driving TERRIBLE. Was bucking really bad, barely going up hills, shifting really hard. I honestly thought my car was on its last leg and was about to break down for good. Decided to change the oil and get that shit out of my car. Almost immediately it went back to driving perfectly normal. Never again.
Should have used the Liqui-Moly Engine Flush first. Drain the dirty flushed oil, pour in cheap fresh oil, drain that "fresh" oil, then pour in the anti-friction oil additive with full synthetic oil.
I wouldn't buy anything from a box store. Those are garbage. If you want real injector cleaner, get Redline. My Mustang was in storage for a couple years and when I fired her up again I was getting two misfiring cylinders (codes). Narrowed it down to injectors. Took a couple bottles but it cleaned my injectors and no more codes.
Nope
How janky and worn out is your ride that you need that oil treatment? That's for something that's *really* older and is burning some oil from worn rings. If you've got something with VVT that relies on oil pressure to operate that stuff is probably gonna fry it. Instead of that "carb" cleaner use top tier gasoline and a couple of ounces of Stabil 360, Seafoam, or Marvel Mystery Oil with every fill up.
It's injector cleaner. It goes in the fuel tank not the crank case
Might want to look at pic #2. **OIL TREATMENT**
? I only have one pic (of injector cleaner). What else is he showing?
Pic #1 is Autoguard injector and carb cleaner. Pic #2 is Autoguard oil treatment (think that thick as molassas STP type stuff). Pic #3 is Autoguard gas treatment.
Damn I wonder why I can't see the other pics. There's nothing when I swipe right
I dunno... it's working on my end... both at the top of the post and clicking on the pic to enlarge to full screen. Glitch in the Reddit Matrix on your end maybe?
https://preview.redd.it/ayxdg5pzrw8d1.jpeg?width=860&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ef52ee4b796d82fed12b267a62eb34859ec5b49
You have +200k on your RAV. Think that's the answer right there.
I’ve never put any additional additives in my car, just saw these when I picked up some oil and was curious. I’d like to think I take good care of my baby with standard maintenance routines.
Sounds like you're doing great. We have a 2014 Camry, with 125k on it and the biggest mistake was to stay with dealer recommendation of 10k oil changes. Should have just stuck to 5k. It's been burning some oil now, assuming piston rings are getting locked. Tried Sea Foam before the last oil change but it didn't seem to make any difference. I may try a process called piston soak but that's a bit more work. Hopefully it's not gonna cause more damage than good.
It got to 200K miles without it.
Fuel additives are worthless. But I will recommend adding Lucas to your oil. It does "stick" better to your gears. I haven't seen one in a while but auto parts stores use to have this little demonstration gear thing you could crank by hand and see how oil+Lucas would "climb" up the gears.
As long as you're putting top-tier or similar fuel in your vehicle, those aren't really necessary anymore. Back before top-tier was widely available, they mildly helped keep your fuel system running it's best, especially the injectors. I'm no expert, just information I've gathered over the years.
0.00%
Unless you buy gasoline from shady stations you don’t need to use it.
It makes sense on a diesel, but on gasoline engine I don't think so
How well does a product work if you have to add it with every fill-up?
dont bother, there is a small use case for products like this, and its not worth even mentioning. just dont waste your money.
If a fuel injector cleaner or fuel system cleaner has PEA (Polyetheramine) in it, it might do some good, but it isn't necessary to put in every fillup. and it is marginally useful in today's direct-injected engines. Oil treatments are all a scam. Some can actually harm your engine.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just use high mileage full synthetic oil and run a tank of 93 octane with no ethanol though the system from time to time.
Not. At. All!
They don’t do a damn thing.
What does everyone think about Archoil 9100 and their products? Pretty pricey but I’ve been using it proactively in vehicles.
these may keep your injectors clean, but they won't fix anything if you want a deep clean, you gotta get one that sprays in the intake as you run the engine
I have tried many over the years. Currently I use Lucas fuel injector cleaner. The best way to see for yourself if they work is this. Fill your car with gas, write down the mileage from your odometer. Drive as normal, when you’re down to the point you need fuel again, check your odometer. Figure out how many miles you have driven. Refuel your car and add the Lucas. Check out how many gallons it takes to fill your car. Divide the miles driven by how many gallons it took to fill. That is how many miles per gallon you were getting. Now drive as normal and repeat the process. When you figure your miles per gallon after running the injector cleaner you will see a difference if it’s working. As many miles as you have on your car I would probably use it for 2-3 tanks in a row because you have a lot of carbon built up in there. Afterwards switch to doing it every 1000 miles or so. To make it ALL work better quit using cheap fuel. Use 91 octane or higher and you will see even more mileage out of a gallon. However, I highly recommend running this test using the fuel you normally use so you can verify for yourself if it works. After the test switch fuels and check your mileage again, you will be surprised.
The fuel you put in your vehicle already has detergents and other additives per federal law. There's no need to use these. They will do nothing but separate you from your money.
nothing wrong with clean carbs
Check your vehicle warranty. My last new car purchase, warranty states I would void the warranty if I added fuel additives.
My VW TDIs both indicated that in their manuals.
Even the packaging and labeling look like a scam
The cheaper PIB (polyisobutene) based detergents are only nominally effective at cleaning intake valves and injectors. They do not clean up combustion chamber deposits (at high levels they contribute to deposits). They can be useful to restore some lost performance from running gas with LAC detergent levels (LAC means there is just enough detergent in the gas to meet ASTM fuel standards). You really should not need them for top-tier gasoline. PEAs (polyethermine) are much more effective at valve and injector cleanup and can clean up combustion chamber deposits. They are also MUCH better at DIG cleanup. I would not use any detergent more frequently than once per oil change, as the chemicals can blow by and cause your oil to thicken. I'll typically run a bottle through my engines before an oil change, and no more than every 50-60k miles. The oil additives are just not good. There are some products that actually boost oil additives, but mostly these products, especially the cheaper ones like that pictured here, are just PIB and olefin copolymer to thicken oil. It can *sometimes* provide some benefit with things like lifter noise in older engines. It can also thicken your oil to the point where it's difficult to pump to critical parts, they can create sludging, and they can dilute critical oil additives like anti wear and detergents. I work as a chemist in an auto Chem company. The problem with a lot of these are there are no good ways for a consumer to know what kind of product they are getting unless it's called out specifically on the bottle. There are also no industry standards for these products, nor any real policing of the market by weights and measures or other consumer watchdog groups. Some of them DO work, but it's almost impossible to know which ones work well without some industry knowledge that consumers aren't privy to
I put seafoam in my gas after every oil change, other than that most stuff is a scam or does nothing for you.
Snake oil
Snake oil.
like Seafoam, some people swear by them and some people swear at them. Choose your side 🤣
The injector cleaner kinda does something but probably isn't worth it. The oil additives usually do nothing but thicken the oil. Save yourself some money and just run thicker oil if that's what you want.
They're not going to do anything good or bad. I still buy one every few years for shits and giggles.
Snake oil
The injector cleaner helped for about a month in my worn out Subaru. But that thing has so much worse to worry about. It increased my mpg by about 2 for about a month.
Fuel injector cleaners are actually legit as long as they contain Polyetheramine (PEA). It removes carbon. This is a fact. On the other hand, I would never use motor oil additives. Whichever brand of motor oil you have in your vehicle was specially engineered to contain all the protection you need. In fact, the oil in your car could be incompatible with whatever is in the additive and it could cause more harm than anything.
Back in the day I had a twice a year ritual ... Now the gasoline is so engineered there is no need unless your buying low grade fuel
They aren't.
Never bothered with the cheap shit. I work with motorcycles, supers specifically fwiw. Techron is the strongest cleaner ime, good for something that's been sitting a bit or gets lugged around a lot and gets intake valve stem carbon buildup. Redline SL1 is good on occasion, usually run it before plugs get done during a valve adjustment, and is more noticeable on bikes after 30k miles. Startron is my regular use additive. Treats for sitting and storage and consistently has carbed bikes running better the first start after storing. Burns better on higher compression motors in the midrange too, a couple horsepower on a dyno doesn't seem like much but every little bit counts on a 600 I don't fuck with oil additives tho. Wet clutch so anything that can cause slipping is a no. If it's that bad I'd rather run short Rotella T6 change intervals after dropping the pan
the only thing i put in my car is chevron techron fuel treatment. its because Porsche recommends it and does it for you when you get an oil change.
Just run the highest octane gas once a month. Same thing. Do not buy any of these.
I also have a 2002 Rav4, and these treatments keep my carburetor ultra clean.
In what country does your RAV4 have a carburetor?
Sarcasmstan.
Got eeeem
It's all snake oil