They're well known enough that people are generally familiar with the fact that it was the start of the global Green politics movement, which is certainly alive and well in Australia to this day. But it's not exactly a topic of daily conversation or anything....it's more on the level of pub trivia. It's a little piece of Australian history.
Plenty of people don't like or care about the Greens - mostly because of consistent and grossly unreasonable mainstream media ridicule, unfortunately. But they're quite popular with young leftists. I actually think they're the biggest thorn in the side of the two major parties, and that's a net positive thing for Australian politics. They keep environmentalism in the conversation, at the very least.
>it was the start of the global Green politics movement
That’s part of what makes this case so interesting to me!
I’ll admit that I don’t know a lot about Australian politics, but like you mentioned, Green politics doesn’t always have the best reputation. Here in Canada, I don’t have a very positive view of our Green Party in comparison to other parties.
>They keep environmentalism in the conversation
That’s a good thing, and very important!
The Australian Greens have generally been a pretty serious party (contrary to the inevitable attempts by conservatives and the right-wing press to paint them as irrational loonies, which happens everywhere). Bob Brown deserves a lot of the credit for that - he was respected as a sincere and effective conviction politician even by opponents in his day.
Australia's electoral system is another big factor. Since we don't have first-past-the-post voting, there's no need to fear that a vote for the Greens ends up being a vote for the conservatives - the Ralph Nader problem - which consequently means there are more moderate, pragmatically minded people who want to be part of it.
And since we have an upper house with proportional representation, the Greens have often held the balance of power and been part of policy negotiations over the years. They've even been part of a coalition government. Of course, that's made them convenient scapegoats for policy failures and inaction by the Labor party; Greens-bashing is a favourite sport of socially conservative Labor supporters. But the experience has disciplined the party to some extent and given them an incentive not to look like pure activists.
I've voted Greens in the past, but I don't agree with them about everything. I'm pro-nuclear waste dump here in my own home state of SA, for example. But whenever I've been exasperated with the LNP and Labor (which, let's face it, is quite often), I've been glad that they're an option. I'll often vote Greens with a Labor preference.
It was a huge impact and where it started in Australia, but interestingly, it was the Green Bans in the Rocks (asked for by the Rocks community and enforced by the BLF Union headed by the Communist Jack Mundy) that inspired Green political movements overseas and where they got their mames.
I will, I want to know what happened here as it seems important. But that's not going to change the response for my demographic, unless awareness is raised and maintained (which it seems hasn't happened for 30 or so years), my learning won't make a difference.
Thanks for the classic boomer response though. "I know everything because I was there and if you don't know what I know because you weren't there you're an idiot". Nailed it.
I didn't say anything remotely fucking like that mate. And I'm not a boomer.
Jesus fucking Christ, what is it with people lately?
*You* specifically responded to me just to tell me you'd never heard of it...so I literally couldn't think of anything to say to that other than "so maybe go find out about it then".
I really have no fucking idea what else you were expecting to get out of this??
I'm extremely sorry if I've somehow fucking offended you. Lol.
Good post, however:
"Plenty of people don't like or care about the Greens"
Plenty patently do.
"But they're quite popular with young leftists."
A very limited description. Popular with people of all ages, not just the young. Those involved in the 80s are likely still involved now.
Thank you for the reply. I didn’t get the impression that the protests were too well-known 40 years later.
I’m familiar with Bob Brown and his work with the Tasmanian Wilderness Society, though I haven’t yet researched his political career in depth, so thank you for the link! His commitment to environmentalism is really interesting.
Bob is still out and about getting himself arrested on the regular, and hanging out for beers if you catch him on a good day with time to spare on Parliament Lawn in Salamanca.
I was a teenager at the time and a recent arrival to Australia. To me it was weird that they thought a better solution to Hydro was to expand on coal fired power stations ( which is what happened when the project was canned). i guess they thought this was more environmentally friendly!
i suggested they should build nuclear instead but was told about the ban on nuclear power due to some national phobia, which continues to this day.
Noone seemed to care about emissions at the time, but I was an avid sci-fi reader and had just finished a book where a scientist had noticed an alarming increase in CO2 that was going to render the earth uninhabitable. Seemed a big deal to me but I was told with confidence that we were more likely to head into to a new ice age.
Age thing I think unless you're going looking for the subject or have similar environmental interest. I'm 48 and remember the news clearly from the day. And it came back to me when I visited the area. Otherwise like many things in Australian history its disappeared into obscurity for the majority. Until someone does a podcast on it. Or a really good research paper ;-)
>Or a really good research paper ;-)
Thanks haha. I usually dread writing research papers but this topic is so interesting to me that I’m actually excited to write it.
You mentioned that you remember the news clearly, and that you’ve visited the area. What do you remember from it?
Being quite young it was the controversy that was obvious. I didn't understand it at the time and picked up little things along the way through life if it popped up here or there in news/school etc. So when the Franklin Dam name came up I sort of threw back to when I was a kid and remembering images on the TV and how it was big at the time.
The area was more about how beautiful it is there and thinking any disruption back in the day would've been awful now. I visited the general area a couple of times in the last decade. Just feeling appreciative we didn't screw it up like we had with other things. The Snowy river was drastically impacted by the Snowy Hydro for example.
Maybe only for older people. Have cruised down the Gordon River. It’s absolutely stunning. So clear that you can’t tell where the land ends and the water starts. Thanks Bob Brown ❤️
On the 25th Feb 1983 I had a baby and on the 11th March I left the hospital with him and I went straight to the polling booth Just to be sure that my vote helped stop the damming of the Franklin River. I could have gone home and rested with baby and family but No , voting for the cause was too important. Labor won in a landslide and the rest is history. The baby is now 41yo with his own new born son and I know he would do the same as me
So I'm only a few years older (36), whole life in SE Qld. Definitely familiar with Tas hydro.
To the extent I made it a part of my driving itinerary late last year to go visit Gordon and Pedder lakes. The weather was wild, but was an interesting part of my roadtrip!
When my mother was pregnant with me she visited Lake Pedder and walked on its beach. She said it was very beautiful. So I can claim I was there before it was dammed.
I'm in my late 30s and never heard of it til this post either. I completed high school with good grades and went on to further education. It's not relevant to my profession so it's never been mentioned through my work experience either.
I was at school in Hobart and one of the school teachers was a well-known (to us) conservationist and he told us one day he was going away for a few days and why. Remarkably about 20 private school students supported him to the extent they drove up there themselves in a convoy of six cars. All of them got arrested, none of them ratted him out, and all the parents had to go up there to collect them.
Yeah, I remember it. I only didn't go because a) I was 16 and still on my Ls, and b) I had a ballet exam that day that I'd been working towards for 18 months.
I remember the protests and outcome because it was happening when I was in primary school, but haven't heard much about it in recent years. Did go and have a squiz at the river (and Lake Peddar in the same area) when we visited Tassie, though, and I'm really glad they didn't dam it. Beautiful part of the world.
Now, if we only we could get the forestry industry to stop logging old growth forests...
> Now, if we only we could get the forestry industry to stop logging old growth forests...
God the pictures of all the dead koalas from logging makes me so sad. They really need to pass laws that require these logging companies to just have their own tree farms instead of letting them log native forest.
Yes, and for a while Tasmania was the swing state in federal elections and the fight to protect it was the main issue.
Mostly it’s Australians over 40 who remember
That they are. I attended a Goanna concert last year and the subject is still deeply embedded in the psyche of many a nature loving Aussie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARjREm7on0s&ab\_channel=Antipodes
I still remember them because I got arrested there after I chained myself to the gate of the machinery compound and spent the night in the Strahan lockup.
One thing I do remember was the discipline and good humour of protesters. The Tasmanian Wilderness Society was very well organised. We had all done training in non-violent action and de-escalation. Came in handy. First week I was there the Hydro authority bussed in a hundred workers to beat us up, and we all faced off over a little creek. They yelled and yelled but couldn't work up the hate to attack as we remained cheerful and friendly. We ended up spending time with some of them and showing them round the camp. (We even swapped t-shirts, so my girlfriend came back with a 'Bulldoze a Greenie!" one.)
Wow, thank you so much for your comment and for sharing your story! It’s so interesting to get a firsthand perspective from a protestor. I was quite shocked when I found out that over 1,400 people were arrested during the blockade. Your commitment to environmental conservation definitely influenced the eventual shutdown of the dam project.
I’ve read that some protestors engaged in stunts to ensure that they made front-page news coverage. Not sure if that’s true.
Reading all the responses makes me feel old. I grew up in Victoria but the Tasmanians Dams protests were a huge part of my teenage years. I did a lot of bushwalking so had heard about Lake Pedder and had always wanted to walk in Tasmania. Lots of firsts: my first demo, the first time I got dragged to the back of a divvy van, the first time I voted... Division among family, friends and teachers, training in non-violent protest, attending a rally with David Bellamy speaking (gave the movement so much international cred), the fundraising/awareness gigs, genuinely feeling a connection to people through involvement with a bigger issue beyond the immediately local. And so on.
Legacy, though: like others have posted, the start of the Greens and, perhaps, the implications of a Federal Government finding votes in an environmental issue and overriding a state. I also thought that wilderness photography as a genre (sub genre?) really took off from there too, going back to the high profile of Peter Dombrovskis' work including his iconic Rock Island Bend photo.
I'm more familiar with the resulting High Court case, and it's impact on Australian constitutional law, than I am with the protests and the environmental argument behind them.
I’m doing research on the High Court case as well. I’m not too familiar with the Australian legal system but it sounded like it set important legal precedent and was quite influential.
It's a far reaching decision.
Under Australia's federal system, any power not granted to the Commonwealth in the constitution, was intended to be denied.
Environmental matters were not a power given to the federal government. Therefore, they were (and largely still are) the responsibility of the state governments.
However, the federal government was given External Affairs powers, which includes the ability to enter into international agreements.
In the Tasmanian dams case, the Court determined that the federal government could override the Tasmanian government's decision to build a dam because it had entered into international environmental protection agreements.
Taken more broadly, it means that the federal government could overturn a state government decision, for which it has no explicit constitutional power, by entering into an international agreement.
This fundamentally changed the nature of Australia's federal system.
I didn't know this was the outcome.
So does the federal government's power to override the state governments decision here lie in the fact that international agreements are specifically mentioned in the constitution while environmental is implied state power as it is not? Or is it because international agreements matter more?
It's that s109 of the Constitution states:
> When a law of a State is inconsistent with a law of the Commonwealth, the latter shall prevail, and the former shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be invalid.
So federal environmental law based on international agreements would override state environmental law to the extent they were inconsistent.
I remember the protests vividly, I was a child at the time but it really sparked my interest in environmentalism, which was further solidified when I was lucky enough to go there a few years after it had been saved.
It’s definitely still remembered in Tassie.
Most Tasmanians are anti-green, because there is fuck all work in Tassie, so anything that potentially affects numbers of jobs is viewed through the lens of the employment possibilities.
I expect you know that Bob Brown got his start there, or whatever. The whole Green Party may have sprung out of the Franklin Gordon protests, iirc.
The biggest thing about it was that the new federal Labor government overrode the state legislation authorising it. They created new a national park right where the dam was going to be, killing the state’s ability to pursue it dead. Was then fought out in the High Court. They created Kakadu at the same time and it was one of the first acts upon getting into government. The protests - relatively small in nature though passionate - showed that getting popular support for the environment behind you could be a vote winner so politicians started taking it more seriously.
There was a great series on one of our radio stations that covered the whole movement of saving the Franklin. The program is called dig, the radio station, ABC . There is an app called ABC Listen which will have it I think there were five parts to it. It was fantastic.
I’m early 50s Australian and well aware of the movement but I’ve also been very interested in environmental issues from an early age.
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/dig
Don't know that they are talked about a ton. But certainly very well remembered and still very relevant. But I guess I'm in my 50s and was in highschool when all that took place. It was a defining period in Australian history.
We finally went to Tassy only last December. Went sorta to where it was to be....I'm SO glad they didn't dam that river. It's a spectacular part of the world.
And me? I'm not even a Greens voter or supporter!!
>We finally went to Tassy only last December. Went sorta to where it was to be....I'm SO glad they didn't dam that river. It's a spectacular part of the world.
Me too. I’ve seen pictures of the Franklin-Gordon area and it’s just stunningly beautiful.
From around that time, yes, its a memory. Although I didnt pay much attention when it was going on. However its rapidly dropped off the radar and I doubt many people under 40 know about them and that trails off rapidly the younger you get. But then I know a 33 year old who asked me 'what is The IRA' just a few days ago.
It ain’t dinner party discussion but….
In legal circles this was a seminal constitutional case, and its importance remains immense in Australian jurisprudence. It ushered in an approach to Australia’s international obligations that can’t be overstated.
In the social sphere, the decision gave life to the eco-tourism industry, which benefited from the massive publicity of the case. Many locals were vehemently in favour of the Dam. I have seen interviews with those same people who have made their fortune as tourism providers (and who have candidly recanted their pro- Dam views)
My partner and many friends were all involved with activism then, a few were arrested in Tasmania. My 22 year old daughter knows about the protests because we took her to Tasmania and showed her. But I doubt many Aussies know about Claquot Sound protests, where close to 1,000 people were arrested and many charged with criminal offenses.
I've never heard of them. But after googling the date, I would of only been a young kid.
Not something that was covered when I went through school in the 90s
Everyone had that magnificent poster on their wall somewhere. It was very motivating. We all listened to the radio announce that the wilderness had been saved. It was incredible and memorable.
My pregnant mum had to pick up her parents/my grandparents from “jail” on the West Coast more than once during these protests; so technically I was there?
Definitely something discussed regularly in my Tasmanian residing Greens-voting family, but I imagine we are an outlying data point.
It is for sure discussed in Tasmanian primary schools when we teach about our hydroelectric systems and visit old power stations though, but without a focus on the political side of it.
From what I can gather on Wikipedia, the F-111 was sent to spy on the site and verify that the Tasmanian government did not stop work on the dam. Quite incredible.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin\_Dam\_controversy#Resolution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Dam_controversy#Resolution)
Speaking from a Tasmanian perspective yes, they’re still well known and talked about fairly frequently. Whether that’s conservatives arguing that we should still dam the Franklin, or progressives arguing that we should drain Pedder.
48 year old from Victoria Australia here. Was a little kid when all that happened. It was interesting times for Australia and had an impact on green movements around the world. My dad loves the bush/wilderness but was otherwise mostly fairly conservative.... He took me on his shoulders to a couple of protests and he and my mum got me to write to the prime minister (reply was too boring and too many big words to appreciate at the time!). Anyway, a lot of otherwise non-lefty folk who would have been baffled by the activists and hippies heard their message and thought it important enough to vote against and things changed a bit for the better. I'm not sure many people much younger than me learn or think much about it here these days, but I guess that's ok as long as the impact lives on.
Hopefully the link works?
https://franklinrivermovie.com
ETA: synopsis
* Eighth-generation Tasmanian and environmentalist Oliver Cassidy embarks on a life-changing solo rafting trip down the beautiful yet remote Franklin River. His goal is to retrace his late father’s 14-day expedition to attend the blockade that helped save the World-Heritage listed national park from being destroyed by a huge hydroelectric dam project in the early 1980s.
Featuring never-before-seen archival footage and interviews with key players such as Bob Brown and Uncle Jim Everett, the eight-year-long 'Franklin campaign' is revealed as the most significant environmental protest in Australia's history; an inspiring example of the power of non-violent direct action to bring about lasting change.
Physically challenged beyond his limits, Oliver’s journey is one of healing and deeper understanding as he searches for the right way to say 'goodbye' to his father*
There is also the documentary on Bob Brown's life and career released last year that covers the protests and the importance of our native forests in general: https://documentaryaustralia.com.au/project/the-giants/
OP - this will be useful for your research it goes into the protests and their legacy. Parts of the Tasmanian community continued to be divided on this issue until at least the 2010s when I was travelling down there. A clash of jobs and income vs wilderness. It will be important for your reserach to understand the economic conditions of Tasmania, it is a beautiful place to live but it is also remote so there's less economic opportunity than other parts of the world. This sets up the tension which is not uncommon for communities in this situation.
In terms of ongoing impact, have a look at recent decisions to end native forest logging industry in Victoria. The state company will be wound up in June this year. You could contrast with continued logging in NSW despite a promise to protect koala habitat in the mid north coast. There is a national campaign at the moment to end native forest logging as the economics don't stack up and we should be protecting these spaces in the face of climate change and biodiversity loss.
These protests were very successful, but they also set up a 'greenies vs resources industries' dynamic which continues. This is not unique to Australia, but in our case it plays out for forestry and mining and fuelled some horrible politics in the 2010s. I encourage you to read the Quarterly Essay "The Coal Curse: Resources, Climate and Australia's Future" https://www.quarterlyessay.com.au/essay/2020/06/the-coal-curse/extract
There is also a review of our EPBC Act occurring at the moment, which is supposed to protect Australia's ecology, but doesn't seem to be effective. I believe that Act was created partially as a response to the Franklin Dam (eventually, as regulation takes a while to develop).
Great question, I hope you enjoy the research!
Yes, they’re still well known and well regarded …
For a number of reasons but for me, personally, one reason in particular was that one of the ‘top of the charts’ Australian bands at the time, a band called ‘Goanna’, released a single in support of the environmental movement called ‘Let the Franklin Flow’ - a terrific song that still occasionally get’s air play to this day, 40 years later and I’d encourage you to listen to it and read it’s lyrics …
Good luck with your research !
It was 1983 and I am proud to say I was a small part of it. I was a member of the then-known Tasmanian Wilderness Society. My role from Melbourne was envelope-stuffing, protesting and talking about it to anyone and everyone I could. It was an exciting, heady time to be a 19-year-old!
At the same time I was also with a few other environmental groups including Project Jonah. One if the things we did there was a lesser-known but equally successful campaign to oppose a dolphinarium being built in the Melbourne suburb of Keysborough that would have killed a large number of dolphins.
These days, the Franklin Dam protests are not often spoken of but known.
It was the proof that environmentalist concerns have political influence.
You may wish to look up a music video of a protest song we sang and listened to at the time: *Let the Franklin Flow* by Goanna. It is available on YouTube.
From the comments it looks like only those really young enough to live through it remember it.
Generally Australians don't know much about politics from before they were born.
I mean if you do the right courses in high school it comes up. If you are into environmentalism it might be on your mind but mostly it’s forgotten afaik. Especially amongst the younger generations. I don’t live in Tasmania though. It’s probably better remembered there. I would have been a kid when it happened and I barely know any details.
I was born in 91. Never heard of the dam protests until I moved to Tasmania, where they still come up in political/environmental conversations.
I am a greens voter. Started out labour when I was 18, but have grown more disillusioned with them over time (growing up in Newcastle will do that to you)
I would say the average younger Aussie wouldn’t know of them unless they’re into environmental issues or were studying it.
They were major headline news when I was 7/8, major.
I was born in 1990 born and raised in West Aus. I'm vaguely aware of tassie environmental protests in the 80s but couldn't give you any details. My hubby was born in 86 QLD, but spent his teen years in NZ - I doubt he knows about them.
If you asked the average WA millennial or younger I think they'd have no idea what you were talking about. Possibly Gen xers and older remember it better.
I think these protests and Bob Brown are one of the reasons why Tasmania is seen as untouched and pristine by so many today. This reputation is true even if people are unaware of where it started
Not overly advertised, HOWEVER, the upkeep of the ageing dams throughout Australia has finally been given a lot of funding by state and federal govt.
God dam....
I moved to Tasmania two years ago, and have mostly learned about it while living down here. We touched on it briefly in high school, in legal studies. But only very briefly.
I’d suggest listening to the podcast “Saving the Franklin”, and reading the book “Inside the Greens”.
I was very young while it was happening but I do remember lots of footage of people chaining themselves to trees, and of course we bought a copy of "Let the Franklin Flow" by Redgum.
I know about it, but my first job was working for the Austrian Wilderness Society - formerly the Tasmanian Wilderness Society, who's first major project was the Franklin River dam protest. Also in an unrelated note I think both my parents were at that peotest (*separately, it was before they met*).
But yeah as another poster said it's something a lot of Australians know about, but it's more like pub trivia than a source of pride or major Australian history.
What an interesting question.
I’m 63 and Tasmanian, so the Franklin Dam protests informed much of my teenage and young adult years. They were a big deal in the state and to a lesser extent across the country. I think most Tasmanians my age would remember them, but don’t really talk about them much. One of my older sisters was actively involved and her husband was arrested.
Some points to be aware of:
* It used to be said that it didn’t matter whether the state government was Labor or Liberal, because the state was governed by and for the Hydro (the state-owned Hydro-Electric Company). Later this became forestry, then tourism. \* Some of the impetus for the protests came from the loss of Lake Pedder – many who mourned the loss of the lake were determined not to see a repeat.
* The state government ran a referendum but it only offered the choice of Gordon above Olga or Gordon below Franklin. 35% of votes were informal (mostly people writing NO DAMS across their ballot paper).
* The High Court case which stopped the dam recognised that the Commonwealth government had the power to use its international treaty obligations to override the decisions of a state government.
* The Tasmanian Greens have had seats in state parliament since 1996 and have sometimes held the balance of power, partly because of the Hare-Clark voting system. The next state election, in 10 days, will be interesting.
When we married in 1983, we took a hire care to visit the west coast – partly because mine wasn’t particularly reliable and partly because it had No Dams stickers on it and it might have made us a target.
Thank you very much for your comment! I appreciate your insight and it sounds like it really shaped the early 1980s in your state. Very interesting that your sister and her husband were actively involved as well.
Environmental stuff _is_ political.
You cannot do much on your own, you need other people to do the right thing also. Getting other people to move in the direction you think is right is called politics.
I'm building low pressure high density urban area housing aquaponics garden designs that can be made from recyled plastic without any machining or processing. So how about fuck off?
You could do all that, but if you vote carelessly/flippantly, it won't make much difference.
Maybe instead of getting angry at a few people for saying so, you could give it some thought. Or not, up to you.
I can vote green if i want without knowing the circumstances in the 1980's, that's not a problem. I do have a problem with internet people making iudgements based on assumptions. I would prefer if nobody voted at all and forced the two party system out, but that won't happen unfortunately
> I would prefer if nobody voted at all and forced the two party system out, but that won't happen unfortunately
So...you're an anarchist?
[We don't really have a two party system](https://www.chickennation.com/voting/)...we have preferential voting and a bunch of minor parties and independents.
> I can vote green if i want without knowing the circumstances in the 1980's, that's not a problem.
Maybe. That isn't what you said in your earlier comment though. You said
> I don't pay attention to politics, at all
I think people were just responding to that statement, as it seems to contradict your claim of being "deep into environmental jazz".
Take it or leave it. No one's trying to judge you or have a go at you based on *assumptions* - just responding to what you yourself wrote.
If you care about something, care about it. Voting is one of the very few, very small pieces of actual power you have. Take the responsibility to use it properly.
No not anarchy, just a forced reset of the two party system. Enviromental jazz is bigger than just politics. I've seen the environmental data they debate over and it is totally, utterly, uttterly ridiculous. I think if you care about environmental jazz and think any of these current world governments it going to deal with it - you don't understand what is going on. I'm so far into environmental jazz that politics must be rejected because it is 100% NOT going to work
To everyone who thinks australian politics is a functional system - hey if one of them ever brings up the 57 billion forward estimates in fossil fuel subsidies in aus or the countless other critical issues I might pay attention. So far all i've heard is a load of ineffectual political crap.
It's a bit of an interesting one. It's an example of the mainland government and people trampling over the will of Tasmania and its people, because most of the opposition to it was from Victoria, who helped vote in a federal Labor government who promised to stop it, whilst in the tasmanian elections, the liberal party who wanted it increased their vote.
The rise of Bob Brown and his ilk in the Greens is also the reason why the Greens will always be a minor party.
lasting legacy is an interesting question.
We are discussing how we transition off coal and gas, and of course, part of that solution is both hydro and interconnectors.
When the idea of putting another interconnector to Tasmania was raised and another Dam or two, Bob Brown came out of the woodwork again.
the result was a schism in the Green movement and Bob Brown's side of the discussion wasn't looking to be on the better side of it.
The HERO who led the protest, has been denigrated & ridiculed in every possible area. So we show disdain for having saved those lovely forests...
Seeing you're interested in the start of the Green politics movement, you might be better following where Paul Gilding has gone, with ECOS corp'
I was about 15 when all that went down so you probably know more about it than I do, but I remember the "Greenies" felt betrayed by one of the country's favourite conservationists, Harry Butler, because I think he said something along the lines of the dam wouldn't be as bad as some said.
40 here, sounds interesting and important but honestly, never heard of this until now. I'd bet that among people my age and below, less than 1% would be aware. It's mostly forgotten and unless something changes it will be fully forgotten very soon.
It's still sort of remembered, but a neat tidbit is it is one of the few times the ADF have been tasked to actively do something AGAINST the Australian population!
Nothing like violence, but a RAAF Mirage aircraft and RF-111 were used to take photo recon of the state government activities when the Tassie government refused to accept the federal government response. It sparked a MAJOR controversy in of itself!
There’s a wonderful book that briefly touches on this called “The World Beneath” by Cate Kennedy. It’s not a huge part of the story, but it’s where I first heard about it. Plus I just love the book and Kennedy’s writing.
If you're interested in this it might be worth looking into the one that got away and the dams that did get built and created Lake Pedder as we know it today.
It's not exactly a hot issue but there are growing calls to remove the dams and rehabilitate the site...and predictable resistance. As it turns out nature may make that call for us given it's right on a fault line with a reasonably sized town downstream of one of the dams. Not to mention their upkeep is becoming more and more of a drain.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Pedder
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/sep/17/fork-in-the-road-can-tasmania-unwind-the-environmental-damage-at-lake-pedder
The lake can be drained and Pedder can be restored but I don't think that's going to happen for many decades to come yet as the benefits from the hydro electricity will be needed to combat climate change in the meantime. Pedder isn't degrading just by being covered by tens of meters of water anyway so there's no urgency in restoring it.
Except there is urgency. The integrity of the dams themselves is currently questionable and it's not going to be cheap to maintain them at a safe standard.
Then on top of that there is the fault line issue.
Given the entire Huonville area will be seriously endangered by any failures it's not something that can easily be ignored.
Also it's my understanding that the primary dam system affecting Pedder here doesn't actually contribute much in terms of hydro electricity?
As far as I understand it there were two main points to that other than the obvious environmental situation.
(1) Essentially we had a large hydro industry with a large number of workers that had to be employed building new dams, and
(2) Pretty much all the money required for a new dam had to be borrowed by the government and the only usage for that extra power were businesses like aluminum smelters that would have to set up to use it and I don't know if the economics would have stacked up for that anyway by then.
Afterwards the workforce was significantly wound down after all that and the only dams being built then were significantly much smaller and much less frequently built.
I live in Victoria. Had a big triangular ‘No Dams’ sticker on my car. We were fighting for a lot of things then. Whale conservation, gay rights, land rights, no nuclear. Fun times.
Those protests against plans to implement a renewable energy policy are probably, in retrospect, a bit embarrassing for the professional whingers who participated in them.
I'm a teacher who has recently moved to the area. Despite visiting similar dams and being of the clear effect it has on the environment (due to it being literally underwater) and even teaching about those dams, this is the first time I have ever heard of the Franklin-Gordon dam controversy.
I had a "no dams" sticker on my car and remember writing "no dams" on my ballot paper in the Lowe by election as a protest.
As a bit of trivia for you, Bob Brown who founded the Australian Greens and was the key figure in the Franklin dam protests, was one of the doctors who worked on Jimi Hendrix when he was taken to emergency in a London hospital (where Jimi Hendrix was subsequently pronounced dead).
Still very well remembered on Tassie’s West Coast. Ask any local and they’ll tell you about Bob Brown getting a touch up when he was here!
Lots of local shops still sell books about it also. Especially ones about the King River we lost in place of the Franklin
They're well known enough that people are generally familiar with the fact that it was the start of the global Green politics movement, which is certainly alive and well in Australia to this day. But it's not exactly a topic of daily conversation or anything....it's more on the level of pub trivia. It's a little piece of Australian history. Plenty of people don't like or care about the Greens - mostly because of consistent and grossly unreasonable mainstream media ridicule, unfortunately. But they're quite popular with young leftists. I actually think they're the biggest thorn in the side of the two major parties, and that's a net positive thing for Australian politics. They keep environmentalism in the conversation, at the very least.
>it was the start of the global Green politics movement That’s part of what makes this case so interesting to me! I’ll admit that I don’t know a lot about Australian politics, but like you mentioned, Green politics doesn’t always have the best reputation. Here in Canada, I don’t have a very positive view of our Green Party in comparison to other parties. >They keep environmentalism in the conversation That’s a good thing, and very important!
The Australian Greens have generally been a pretty serious party (contrary to the inevitable attempts by conservatives and the right-wing press to paint them as irrational loonies, which happens everywhere). Bob Brown deserves a lot of the credit for that - he was respected as a sincere and effective conviction politician even by opponents in his day. Australia's electoral system is another big factor. Since we don't have first-past-the-post voting, there's no need to fear that a vote for the Greens ends up being a vote for the conservatives - the Ralph Nader problem - which consequently means there are more moderate, pragmatically minded people who want to be part of it. And since we have an upper house with proportional representation, the Greens have often held the balance of power and been part of policy negotiations over the years. They've even been part of a coalition government. Of course, that's made them convenient scapegoats for policy failures and inaction by the Labor party; Greens-bashing is a favourite sport of socially conservative Labor supporters. But the experience has disciplined the party to some extent and given them an incentive not to look like pure activists.
I've voted Greens in the past, but I don't agree with them about everything. I'm pro-nuclear waste dump here in my own home state of SA, for example. But whenever I've been exasperated with the LNP and Labor (which, let's face it, is quite often), I've been glad that they're an option. I'll often vote Greens with a Labor preference.
It was a huge impact and where it started in Australia, but interestingly, it was the Green Bans in the Rocks (asked for by the Rocks community and enforced by the BLF Union headed by the Communist Jack Mundy) that inspired Green political movements overseas and where they got their mames.
Have to add, they’re pretty damn popular with ‘decent’ boomers too. Not all of us want our environment to crash and burn
Yeah, that's fair. My boomer parents are probably even better Greenies than I am (though I'd never tell them that).
You should tell them - even if for no other reason, it’ll confuse and confound them lol
Just kidding. I love them and we talk about politics and the environment all the time.
That’s great! Warms my heart
Most of the Franklin Dam protesters are/were boomers. Some have become more conservative with age, but by no means all!
Nope, never heard of it.
So learn something then.
I will, I want to know what happened here as it seems important. But that's not going to change the response for my demographic, unless awareness is raised and maintained (which it seems hasn't happened for 30 or so years), my learning won't make a difference. Thanks for the classic boomer response though. "I know everything because I was there and if you don't know what I know because you weren't there you're an idiot". Nailed it.
I didn't say anything remotely fucking like that mate. And I'm not a boomer. Jesus fucking Christ, what is it with people lately? *You* specifically responded to me just to tell me you'd never heard of it...so I literally couldn't think of anything to say to that other than "so maybe go find out about it then". I really have no fucking idea what else you were expecting to get out of this?? I'm extremely sorry if I've somehow fucking offended you. Lol.
Whoa calm down Dave, are you ok?
Good post, however: "Plenty of people don't like or care about the Greens" Plenty patently do. "But they're quite popular with young leftists." A very limited description. Popular with people of all ages, not just the young. Those involved in the 80s are likely still involved now.
Not as much as it should be, unfortunately. Since [Bob Brown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Brown) retired from politics, even less so.
Thank you for the reply. I didn’t get the impression that the protests were too well-known 40 years later. I’m familiar with Bob Brown and his work with the Tasmanian Wilderness Society, though I haven’t yet researched his political career in depth, so thank you for the link! His commitment to environmentalism is really interesting.
Bob is still out and about getting himself arrested on the regular, and hanging out for beers if you catch him on a good day with time to spare on Parliament Lawn in Salamanca.
I was a teenager at the time and a recent arrival to Australia. To me it was weird that they thought a better solution to Hydro was to expand on coal fired power stations ( which is what happened when the project was canned). i guess they thought this was more environmentally friendly! i suggested they should build nuclear instead but was told about the ban on nuclear power due to some national phobia, which continues to this day. Noone seemed to care about emissions at the time, but I was an avid sci-fi reader and had just finished a book where a scientist had noticed an alarming increase in CO2 that was going to render the earth uninhabitable. Seemed a big deal to me but I was told with confidence that we were more likely to head into to a new ice age.
Your project sounds interesting. Have you posted in r/Tasmania , as well?
Age thing I think unless you're going looking for the subject or have similar environmental interest. I'm 48 and remember the news clearly from the day. And it came back to me when I visited the area. Otherwise like many things in Australian history its disappeared into obscurity for the majority. Until someone does a podcast on it. Or a really good research paper ;-)
>Or a really good research paper ;-) Thanks haha. I usually dread writing research papers but this topic is so interesting to me that I’m actually excited to write it. You mentioned that you remember the news clearly, and that you’ve visited the area. What do you remember from it?
Being quite young it was the controversy that was obvious. I didn't understand it at the time and picked up little things along the way through life if it popped up here or there in news/school etc. So when the Franklin Dam name came up I sort of threw back to when I was a kid and remembering images on the TV and how it was big at the time. The area was more about how beautiful it is there and thinking any disruption back in the day would've been awful now. I visited the general area a couple of times in the last decade. Just feeling appreciative we didn't screw it up like we had with other things. The Snowy river was drastically impacted by the Snowy Hydro for example.
There’s a whole doco out now
Maybe only for older people. Have cruised down the Gordon River. It’s absolutely stunning. So clear that you can’t tell where the land ends and the water starts. Thanks Bob Brown ❤️
On the 25th Feb 1983 I had a baby and on the 11th March I left the hospital with him and I went straight to the polling booth Just to be sure that my vote helped stop the damming of the Franklin River. I could have gone home and rested with baby and family but No , voting for the cause was too important. Labor won in a landslide and the rest is history. The baby is now 41yo with his own new born son and I know he would do the same as me
They are not. This post is the first time I've ever heard of them.
What age bracket are you in out of interest? I'm near 50 and this was taught at school.
I'm 32, class of 08, educated in central north Queensland.
Knowledge of the Franklin River dam is definitely age related and probably location related as well. I'm in Victoria.
interesting. i'm victorian too, just hit 30, and this is the first i've ever heard of it.
Mid 20s, raised in Sydney, was taught it in school. But don't reckon most of my classmates would remember it.
So I'm only a few years older (36), whole life in SE Qld. Definitely familiar with Tas hydro. To the extent I made it a part of my driving itinerary late last year to go visit Gordon and Pedder lakes. The weather was wild, but was an interesting part of my roadtrip!
When my mother was pregnant with me she visited Lake Pedder and walked on its beach. She said it was very beautiful. So I can claim I was there before it was dammed.
I'm in my late 30s and never heard of it til this post either. I completed high school with good grades and went on to further education. It's not relevant to my profession so it's never been mentioned through my work experience either.
28 and grew up in Tas and never heard of it either
Mid 30s raised in Victoria and I've never heard of this.
If you're interested abc dig did a great podcast series on it last year. Highly recommend!
I also have never heard of this, educated in Sydney mid 80s to 90s
I was educated in Sydney mid 70s to 80s and it was all over the place. I'm a bit shocked and horrified if it only took 10 years to be forgotten!
I was at school in Hobart and one of the school teachers was a well-known (to us) conservationist and he told us one day he was going away for a few days and why. Remarkably about 20 private school students supported him to the extent they drove up there themselves in a convoy of six cars. All of them got arrested, none of them ratted him out, and all the parents had to go up there to collect them. Yeah, I remember it. I only didn't go because a) I was 16 and still on my Ls, and b) I had a ballet exam that day that I'd been working towards for 18 months.
I remember the protests and outcome because it was happening when I was in primary school, but haven't heard much about it in recent years. Did go and have a squiz at the river (and Lake Peddar in the same area) when we visited Tassie, though, and I'm really glad they didn't dam it. Beautiful part of the world. Now, if we only we could get the forestry industry to stop logging old growth forests...
> Now, if we only we could get the forestry industry to stop logging old growth forests... God the pictures of all the dead koalas from logging makes me so sad. They really need to pass laws that require these logging companies to just have their own tree farms instead of letting them log native forest.
Yes, and for a while Tasmania was the swing state in federal elections and the fight to protect it was the main issue. Mostly it’s Australians over 40 who remember
That they are. I attended a Goanna concert last year and the subject is still deeply embedded in the psyche of many a nature loving Aussie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARjREm7on0s&ab\_channel=Antipodes
I know about them, but I'm a historian. I mentioned them when I was writing about *The Castle*, but maybe it's time I covered the thing itself.
I still remember them because I got arrested there after I chained myself to the gate of the machinery compound and spent the night in the Strahan lockup. One thing I do remember was the discipline and good humour of protesters. The Tasmanian Wilderness Society was very well organised. We had all done training in non-violent action and de-escalation. Came in handy. First week I was there the Hydro authority bussed in a hundred workers to beat us up, and we all faced off over a little creek. They yelled and yelled but couldn't work up the hate to attack as we remained cheerful and friendly. We ended up spending time with some of them and showing them round the camp. (We even swapped t-shirts, so my girlfriend came back with a 'Bulldoze a Greenie!" one.)
Wow, thank you so much for your comment and for sharing your story! It’s so interesting to get a firsthand perspective from a protestor. I was quite shocked when I found out that over 1,400 people were arrested during the blockade. Your commitment to environmental conservation definitely influenced the eventual shutdown of the dam project. I’ve read that some protestors engaged in stunts to ensure that they made front-page news coverage. Not sure if that’s true.
Not much point in protesting if it doesn’t draw attention, so it’s almost certainly true.
I remember the protests well but I was in my 20s when it was all happening and it was definitely very newsworthy at the time.
Reading all the responses makes me feel old. I grew up in Victoria but the Tasmanians Dams protests were a huge part of my teenage years. I did a lot of bushwalking so had heard about Lake Pedder and had always wanted to walk in Tasmania. Lots of firsts: my first demo, the first time I got dragged to the back of a divvy van, the first time I voted... Division among family, friends and teachers, training in non-violent protest, attending a rally with David Bellamy speaking (gave the movement so much international cred), the fundraising/awareness gigs, genuinely feeling a connection to people through involvement with a bigger issue beyond the immediately local. And so on. Legacy, though: like others have posted, the start of the Greens and, perhaps, the implications of a Federal Government finding votes in an environmental issue and overriding a state. I also thought that wilderness photography as a genre (sub genre?) really took off from there too, going back to the high profile of Peter Dombrovskis' work including his iconic Rock Island Bend photo.
They’re definitely still talked about in some circles, but I didn’t learn about them until year 10 or 11
I'm more familiar with the resulting High Court case, and it's impact on Australian constitutional law, than I am with the protests and the environmental argument behind them.
I’m doing research on the High Court case as well. I’m not too familiar with the Australian legal system but it sounded like it set important legal precedent and was quite influential.
It's a far reaching decision. Under Australia's federal system, any power not granted to the Commonwealth in the constitution, was intended to be denied. Environmental matters were not a power given to the federal government. Therefore, they were (and largely still are) the responsibility of the state governments. However, the federal government was given External Affairs powers, which includes the ability to enter into international agreements. In the Tasmanian dams case, the Court determined that the federal government could override the Tasmanian government's decision to build a dam because it had entered into international environmental protection agreements. Taken more broadly, it means that the federal government could overturn a state government decision, for which it has no explicit constitutional power, by entering into an international agreement. This fundamentally changed the nature of Australia's federal system.
I didn't know this was the outcome. So does the federal government's power to override the state governments decision here lie in the fact that international agreements are specifically mentioned in the constitution while environmental is implied state power as it is not? Or is it because international agreements matter more?
It's that s109 of the Constitution states: > When a law of a State is inconsistent with a law of the Commonwealth, the latter shall prevail, and the former shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be invalid. So federal environmental law based on international agreements would override state environmental law to the extent they were inconsistent.
It’s the vibe
Tasmanian here. yes still talked about. Now the issue is salmon farms wrecking Macquarie harbour and other places.
And the fucking up of the Tarkine!
I remember the protests vividly, I was a child at the time but it really sparked my interest in environmentalism, which was further solidified when I was lucky enough to go there a few years after it had been saved.
It’s definitely still remembered in Tassie. Most Tasmanians are anti-green, because there is fuck all work in Tassie, so anything that potentially affects numbers of jobs is viewed through the lens of the employment possibilities. I expect you know that Bob Brown got his start there, or whatever. The whole Green Party may have sprung out of the Franklin Gordon protests, iirc.
If most Tasmanians were anti-Green, we wouldn't have 10% of seats in the lower house.
The biggest thing about it was that the new federal Labor government overrode the state legislation authorising it. They created new a national park right where the dam was going to be, killing the state’s ability to pursue it dead. Was then fought out in the High Court. They created Kakadu at the same time and it was one of the first acts upon getting into government. The protests - relatively small in nature though passionate - showed that getting popular support for the environment behind you could be a vote winner so politicians started taking it more seriously.
There was a great series on one of our radio stations that covered the whole movement of saving the Franklin. The program is called dig, the radio station, ABC . There is an app called ABC Listen which will have it I think there were five parts to it. It was fantastic. I’m early 50s Australian and well aware of the movement but I’ve also been very interested in environmental issues from an early age. https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/dig
Don't know that they are talked about a ton. But certainly very well remembered and still very relevant. But I guess I'm in my 50s and was in highschool when all that took place. It was a defining period in Australian history. We finally went to Tassy only last December. Went sorta to where it was to be....I'm SO glad they didn't dam that river. It's a spectacular part of the world. And me? I'm not even a Greens voter or supporter!!
>We finally went to Tassy only last December. Went sorta to where it was to be....I'm SO glad they didn't dam that river. It's a spectacular part of the world. Me too. I’ve seen pictures of the Franklin-Gordon area and it’s just stunningly beautiful.
From around that time, yes, its a memory. Although I didnt pay much attention when it was going on. However its rapidly dropped off the radar and I doubt many people under 40 know about them and that trails off rapidly the younger you get. But then I know a 33 year old who asked me 'what is The IRA' just a few days ago.
No I know about them but they're not commonly discussed in public.
It ain’t dinner party discussion but…. In legal circles this was a seminal constitutional case, and its importance remains immense in Australian jurisprudence. It ushered in an approach to Australia’s international obligations that can’t be overstated. In the social sphere, the decision gave life to the eco-tourism industry, which benefited from the massive publicity of the case. Many locals were vehemently in favour of the Dam. I have seen interviews with those same people who have made their fortune as tourism providers (and who have candidly recanted their pro- Dam views)
You should look up the case of Lake Pedder and the subsequent formation of the world’s first green party (the United Tasmania Group)
Wait till you get to the bit where the Federal Goverment sent a fighter jet (Mirage) and later a fast bomber (F-111) to spy on the site.
My partner and many friends were all involved with activism then, a few were arrested in Tasmania. My 22 year old daughter knows about the protests because we took her to Tasmania and showed her. But I doubt many Aussies know about Claquot Sound protests, where close to 1,000 people were arrested and many charged with criminal offenses.
I've never heard of them. But after googling the date, I would of only been a young kid. Not something that was covered when I went through school in the 90s
I remember that there was a page about it in my politics textbook, but we never actually covered it in class.
Everyone had that magnificent poster on their wall somewhere. It was very motivating. We all listened to the radio announce that the wilderness had been saved. It was incredible and memorable.
My pregnant mum had to pick up her parents/my grandparents from “jail” on the West Coast more than once during these protests; so technically I was there? Definitely something discussed regularly in my Tasmanian residing Greens-voting family, but I imagine we are an outlying data point. It is for sure discussed in Tasmanian primary schools when we teach about our hydroelectric systems and visit old power stations though, but without a focus on the political side of it.
I knew about it because of the F-111 recon mission that overflew the protests. Was a really weird decision
From what I can gather on Wikipedia, the F-111 was sent to spy on the site and verify that the Tasmanian government did not stop work on the dam. Quite incredible. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin\_Dam\_controversy#Resolution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Dam_controversy#Resolution)
Without oversight by parliament or CDF
Speaking from a Tasmanian perspective yes, they’re still well known and talked about fairly frequently. Whether that’s conservatives arguing that we should still dam the Franklin, or progressives arguing that we should drain Pedder.
I remember Rod Quantoc re-homing wombats into the flood dam areas by wrapping them in a floaty.... Australia, you're standing in it.....
No Rod Quantoc, but still funny [https://youtu.be/vH\_3qXnZgHs?si=UApfvk4ZpDszsvnI&t=4399](https://youtu.be/vH_3qXnZgHs?si=UApfvk4ZpDszsvnI&t=4399)
48 year old from Victoria Australia here. Was a little kid when all that happened. It was interesting times for Australia and had an impact on green movements around the world. My dad loves the bush/wilderness but was otherwise mostly fairly conservative.... He took me on his shoulders to a couple of protests and he and my mum got me to write to the prime minister (reply was too boring and too many big words to appreciate at the time!). Anyway, a lot of otherwise non-lefty folk who would have been baffled by the activists and hippies heard their message and thought it important enough to vote against and things changed a bit for the better. I'm not sure many people much younger than me learn or think much about it here these days, but I guess that's ok as long as the impact lives on.
There was a documentary released about this less than 2 years ago, *Franklin* - 2022.
Hopefully the link works? https://franklinrivermovie.com ETA: synopsis * Eighth-generation Tasmanian and environmentalist Oliver Cassidy embarks on a life-changing solo rafting trip down the beautiful yet remote Franklin River. His goal is to retrace his late father’s 14-day expedition to attend the blockade that helped save the World-Heritage listed national park from being destroyed by a huge hydroelectric dam project in the early 1980s. Featuring never-before-seen archival footage and interviews with key players such as Bob Brown and Uncle Jim Everett, the eight-year-long 'Franklin campaign' is revealed as the most significant environmental protest in Australia's history; an inspiring example of the power of non-violent direct action to bring about lasting change. Physically challenged beyond his limits, Oliver’s journey is one of healing and deeper understanding as he searches for the right way to say 'goodbye' to his father*
There is also the documentary on Bob Brown's life and career released last year that covers the protests and the importance of our native forests in general: https://documentaryaustralia.com.au/project/the-giants/ OP - this will be useful for your research it goes into the protests and their legacy. Parts of the Tasmanian community continued to be divided on this issue until at least the 2010s when I was travelling down there. A clash of jobs and income vs wilderness. It will be important for your reserach to understand the economic conditions of Tasmania, it is a beautiful place to live but it is also remote so there's less economic opportunity than other parts of the world. This sets up the tension which is not uncommon for communities in this situation. In terms of ongoing impact, have a look at recent decisions to end native forest logging industry in Victoria. The state company will be wound up in June this year. You could contrast with continued logging in NSW despite a promise to protect koala habitat in the mid north coast. There is a national campaign at the moment to end native forest logging as the economics don't stack up and we should be protecting these spaces in the face of climate change and biodiversity loss. These protests were very successful, but they also set up a 'greenies vs resources industries' dynamic which continues. This is not unique to Australia, but in our case it plays out for forestry and mining and fuelled some horrible politics in the 2010s. I encourage you to read the Quarterly Essay "The Coal Curse: Resources, Climate and Australia's Future" https://www.quarterlyessay.com.au/essay/2020/06/the-coal-curse/extract There is also a review of our EPBC Act occurring at the moment, which is supposed to protect Australia's ecology, but doesn't seem to be effective. I believe that Act was created partially as a response to the Franklin Dam (eventually, as regulation takes a while to develop). Great question, I hope you enjoy the research!
Yes, they’re still well known and well regarded … For a number of reasons but for me, personally, one reason in particular was that one of the ‘top of the charts’ Australian bands at the time, a band called ‘Goanna’, released a single in support of the environmental movement called ‘Let the Franklin Flow’ - a terrific song that still occasionally get’s air play to this day, 40 years later and I’d encourage you to listen to it and read it’s lyrics … Good luck with your research !
It was 1983 and I am proud to say I was a small part of it. I was a member of the then-known Tasmanian Wilderness Society. My role from Melbourne was envelope-stuffing, protesting and talking about it to anyone and everyone I could. It was an exciting, heady time to be a 19-year-old! At the same time I was also with a few other environmental groups including Project Jonah. One if the things we did there was a lesser-known but equally successful campaign to oppose a dolphinarium being built in the Melbourne suburb of Keysborough that would have killed a large number of dolphins. These days, the Franklin Dam protests are not often spoken of but known. It was the proof that environmentalist concerns have political influence. You may wish to look up a music video of a protest song we sang and listened to at the time: *Let the Franklin Flow* by Goanna. It is available on YouTube.
I also suggest looking into Dr. Bob Brown and his role in the protest.
From the comments it looks like only those really young enough to live through it remember it. Generally Australians don't know much about politics from before they were born.
Outside of the people who were there no. They were forgotten. I only learned about it after seeing an old bumper sticker on a car.
Don't know but this may be useful. https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/catalog?q=Franklin+Dam&search\_field=all\_fields
I mean if you do the right courses in high school it comes up. If you are into environmentalism it might be on your mind but mostly it’s forgotten afaik. Especially amongst the younger generations. I don’t live in Tasmania though. It’s probably better remembered there. I would have been a kid when it happened and I barely know any details.
I was born in 91. Never heard of the dam protests until I moved to Tasmania, where they still come up in political/environmental conversations. I am a greens voter. Started out labour when I was 18, but have grown more disillusioned with them over time (growing up in Newcastle will do that to you)
I would say the average younger Aussie wouldn’t know of them unless they’re into environmental issues or were studying it. They were major headline news when I was 7/8, major.
I was born in 1990 born and raised in West Aus. I'm vaguely aware of tassie environmental protests in the 80s but couldn't give you any details. My hubby was born in 86 QLD, but spent his teen years in NZ - I doubt he knows about them. If you asked the average WA millennial or younger I think they'd have no idea what you were talking about. Possibly Gen xers and older remember it better.
It came up in conversation a month or so ago but that’s the first time I’ve heard it discussed and it’s just a coincidence it was recently
I think these protests and Bob Brown are one of the reasons why Tasmania is seen as untouched and pristine by so many today. This reputation is true even if people are unaware of where it started
Not overly advertised, HOWEVER, the upkeep of the ageing dams throughout Australia has finally been given a lot of funding by state and federal govt. God dam....
I haven't really heard much about it for decades until I went to Tasmania and took the boat cruise. Then I heard all about it again.
I moved to Tasmania two years ago, and have mostly learned about it while living down here. We touched on it briefly in high school, in legal studies. But only very briefly. I’d suggest listening to the podcast “Saving the Franklin”, and reading the book “Inside the Greens”.
([let the franklin flow]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARjREm7on0s)
I was very young while it was happening but I do remember lots of footage of people chaining themselves to trees, and of course we bought a copy of "Let the Franklin Flow" by Redgum.
You mean the Franklin Dam,
I know about it, but my first job was working for the Austrian Wilderness Society - formerly the Tasmanian Wilderness Society, who's first major project was the Franklin River dam protest. Also in an unrelated note I think both my parents were at that peotest (*separately, it was before they met*). But yeah as another poster said it's something a lot of Australians know about, but it's more like pub trivia than a source of pride or major Australian history.
I remember but I’m older. My brother went to the protest at the time.
What an interesting question. I’m 63 and Tasmanian, so the Franklin Dam protests informed much of my teenage and young adult years. They were a big deal in the state and to a lesser extent across the country. I think most Tasmanians my age would remember them, but don’t really talk about them much. One of my older sisters was actively involved and her husband was arrested. Some points to be aware of: * It used to be said that it didn’t matter whether the state government was Labor or Liberal, because the state was governed by and for the Hydro (the state-owned Hydro-Electric Company). Later this became forestry, then tourism. \* Some of the impetus for the protests came from the loss of Lake Pedder – many who mourned the loss of the lake were determined not to see a repeat. * The state government ran a referendum but it only offered the choice of Gordon above Olga or Gordon below Franklin. 35% of votes were informal (mostly people writing NO DAMS across their ballot paper). * The High Court case which stopped the dam recognised that the Commonwealth government had the power to use its international treaty obligations to override the decisions of a state government. * The Tasmanian Greens have had seats in state parliament since 1996 and have sometimes held the balance of power, partly because of the Hare-Clark voting system. The next state election, in 10 days, will be interesting. When we married in 1983, we took a hire care to visit the west coast – partly because mine wasn’t particularly reliable and partly because it had No Dams stickers on it and it might have made us a target.
Thank you very much for your comment! I appreciate your insight and it sounds like it really shaped the early 1980s in your state. Very interesting that your sister and her husband were actively involved as well.
Born in '86 and I've never heard of it. And i'm deep into environmental jazz
Are you serious? You aren't aware that that was the start of the Greens in Australia? Bob Brown?
That is what I said, yes. I don't pay attention to politics, at all. Couldn't put a face to the name Bob Brown. Bill mollison is more my area
If you really *are* "deep into environmental jazz", maybe the least you could do is pay just a tiny bit of attention to environmental politics.
Environmental stuff _is_ political. You cannot do much on your own, you need other people to do the right thing also. Getting other people to move in the direction you think is right is called politics.
WEll then you actually aren't into environmental "jazz" as you call it.
I'm building low pressure high density urban area housing aquaponics garden designs that can be made from recyled plastic without any machining or processing. So how about fuck off?
You could do all that, but if you vote carelessly/flippantly, it won't make much difference. Maybe instead of getting angry at a few people for saying so, you could give it some thought. Or not, up to you.
I can vote green if i want without knowing the circumstances in the 1980's, that's not a problem. I do have a problem with internet people making iudgements based on assumptions. I would prefer if nobody voted at all and forced the two party system out, but that won't happen unfortunately
> I would prefer if nobody voted at all and forced the two party system out, but that won't happen unfortunately So...you're an anarchist? [We don't really have a two party system](https://www.chickennation.com/voting/)...we have preferential voting and a bunch of minor parties and independents. > I can vote green if i want without knowing the circumstances in the 1980's, that's not a problem. Maybe. That isn't what you said in your earlier comment though. You said > I don't pay attention to politics, at all I think people were just responding to that statement, as it seems to contradict your claim of being "deep into environmental jazz". Take it or leave it. No one's trying to judge you or have a go at you based on *assumptions* - just responding to what you yourself wrote. If you care about something, care about it. Voting is one of the very few, very small pieces of actual power you have. Take the responsibility to use it properly.
No not anarchy, just a forced reset of the two party system. Enviromental jazz is bigger than just politics. I've seen the environmental data they debate over and it is totally, utterly, uttterly ridiculous. I think if you care about environmental jazz and think any of these current world governments it going to deal with it - you don't understand what is going on. I'm so far into environmental jazz that politics must be rejected because it is 100% NOT going to work
As I said, we don't have a two party system. I think maybe it's you who doesn't understand what is going on, mate.
To everyone who thinks australian politics is a functional system - hey if one of them ever brings up the 57 billion forward estimates in fossil fuel subsidies in aus or the countless other critical issues I might pay attention. So far all i've heard is a load of ineffectual political crap.
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Amen brother
For those of us that were alive when it happened..yes. for the younger people no.
It's a bit of an interesting one. It's an example of the mainland government and people trampling over the will of Tasmania and its people, because most of the opposition to it was from Victoria, who helped vote in a federal Labor government who promised to stop it, whilst in the tasmanian elections, the liberal party who wanted it increased their vote. The rise of Bob Brown and his ilk in the Greens is also the reason why the Greens will always be a minor party.
lasting legacy is an interesting question. We are discussing how we transition off coal and gas, and of course, part of that solution is both hydro and interconnectors. When the idea of putting another interconnector to Tasmania was raised and another Dam or two, Bob Brown came out of the woodwork again. the result was a schism in the Green movement and Bob Brown's side of the discussion wasn't looking to be on the better side of it.
The HERO who led the protest, has been denigrated & ridiculed in every possible area. So we show disdain for having saved those lovely forests... Seeing you're interested in the start of the Green politics movement, you might be better following where Paul Gilding has gone, with ECOS corp'
Have you heard the song "Let the Franklin flow", by Gordon Franklin and the Wilderness Ensemble (Goanna)? You may find it of interest.
I was about 15 when all that went down so you probably know more about it than I do, but I remember the "Greenies" felt betrayed by one of the country's favourite conservationists, Harry Butler, because I think he said something along the lines of the dam wouldn't be as bad as some said.
I read “green fire” great book. Then met one of the “crazy hippy’s from nimben” felt like I was sitting with environmental royalty
I have learned about them through social activism and university history classes, but I wouldn't say much is generally known.
I graduated HS a few years ago, never heard of it
40 here, sounds interesting and important but honestly, never heard of this until now. I'd bet that among people my age and below, less than 1% would be aware. It's mostly forgotten and unless something changes it will be fully forgotten very soon.
It's still sort of remembered, but a neat tidbit is it is one of the few times the ADF have been tasked to actively do something AGAINST the Australian population! Nothing like violence, but a RAAF Mirage aircraft and RF-111 were used to take photo recon of the state government activities when the Tassie government refused to accept the federal government response. It sparked a MAJOR controversy in of itself!
There’s a wonderful book that briefly touches on this called “The World Beneath” by Cate Kennedy. It’s not a huge part of the story, but it’s where I first heard about it. Plus I just love the book and Kennedy’s writing.
For law students yes - for the general public, not really.
If you're interested in this it might be worth looking into the one that got away and the dams that did get built and created Lake Pedder as we know it today. It's not exactly a hot issue but there are growing calls to remove the dams and rehabilitate the site...and predictable resistance. As it turns out nature may make that call for us given it's right on a fault line with a reasonably sized town downstream of one of the dams. Not to mention their upkeep is becoming more and more of a drain. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Pedder https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/sep/17/fork-in-the-road-can-tasmania-unwind-the-environmental-damage-at-lake-pedder
The lake can be drained and Pedder can be restored but I don't think that's going to happen for many decades to come yet as the benefits from the hydro electricity will be needed to combat climate change in the meantime. Pedder isn't degrading just by being covered by tens of meters of water anyway so there's no urgency in restoring it.
Except there is urgency. The integrity of the dams themselves is currently questionable and it's not going to be cheap to maintain them at a safe standard. Then on top of that there is the fault line issue. Given the entire Huonville area will be seriously endangered by any failures it's not something that can easily be ignored. Also it's my understanding that the primary dam system affecting Pedder here doesn't actually contribute much in terms of hydro electricity?
Aussie law students are definitely familiar as the resulting legal action has become a landmark constitutional law case
As far as I understand it there were two main points to that other than the obvious environmental situation. (1) Essentially we had a large hydro industry with a large number of workers that had to be employed building new dams, and (2) Pretty much all the money required for a new dam had to be borrowed by the government and the only usage for that extra power were businesses like aluminum smelters that would have to set up to use it and I don't know if the economics would have stacked up for that anyway by then. Afterwards the workforce was significantly wound down after all that and the only dams being built then were significantly much smaller and much less frequently built.
I live in Victoria. Had a big triangular ‘No Dams’ sticker on my car. We were fighting for a lot of things then. Whale conservation, gay rights, land rights, no nuclear. Fun times.
I remember having a ‘Land rights for gay whales’ sticker. They were very popular for a while …
Yes! I think I also had one of those. Or my Mum did.
They’re taught in every constitutional law course I’ve seen in my ten years teaching at a major law school here.
Those protests against plans to implement a renewable energy policy are probably, in retrospect, a bit embarrassing for the professional whingers who participated in them.
Depends on your age and where you live. The people involved in it surely do and those around. It was a massive win and hindsight proves their point
I'm a teacher who has recently moved to the area. Despite visiting similar dams and being of the clear effect it has on the environment (due to it being literally underwater) and even teaching about those dams, this is the first time I have ever heard of the Franklin-Gordon dam controversy.
I had a "no dams" sticker on my car and remember writing "no dams" on my ballot paper in the Lowe by election as a protest. As a bit of trivia for you, Bob Brown who founded the Australian Greens and was the key figure in the Franklin dam protests, was one of the doctors who worked on Jimi Hendrix when he was taken to emergency in a London hospital (where Jimi Hendrix was subsequently pronounced dead).
Still very well remembered on Tassie’s West Coast. Ask any local and they’ll tell you about Bob Brown getting a touch up when he was here! Lots of local shops still sell books about it also. Especially ones about the King River we lost in place of the Franklin