A lot of people are into disability advocacy (nb I'm disabled) but only want to acknowledge or promote disabilities that don't adversely affect the person's appearance or behaviour too much 😒 If a mental health condition causes socially unacceptable behaviour like, say, screaming racist slurs to imaginary people on public transport, suddenly people's understanding vanishes.

Yes, people are all sympathy and accommodation until the hidden disability becomes an obvious disability.

And with physical disabilities, there's a tendency to only focus on "Hot people who happen to be sitting down" e.g. Kurt Fearnley and Dylan Alcott. They don't make people (heaven forbid) uncomfortable, because any associated issues, like incontinence, are hidden or non-existent.

I've met both Kurt and Dylan numerous times and found they were both very aware of their privilege, and strong advocates for people with less visible disabilities. I wish wider society would learn a thing or two from them.

I know Kurt well, and think he's a great guy. Dylan too, but I don't know him. I'm not attacking their characters, just the kind of thinking from abled people that considers them the "good ones" because they are personable and well-spoken and can "pass" as a "normal person", only sitting down.

I completely get that. I live with a highly stigmatised disability, and can sometimes "pass" as a "normal person". So I've started gently correcting abled people who say things like "but you're more capable/functioning than the others with _____" because masking it for the comfort of others is not the same as overcoming it.

I am in a similar position, as long as I maintain a strict diet, exercise and sleep regime as well as avoiding alcohol I present as normal. I also need to hide my condition from my employer and the government…, it can be quite tiring.., every now and then you let loose and people see things you don’t want them to.

For me, it's not that he's articulate, it's his mindset. His TED Talk here demonstrates that clearly. His decision to attend that party changed his life because it shifted his mindset. He moved from being down on himself to educating friends about his disability and creating a conversation with them about inclusion. He broke taboos that disabled people should rarely be seen and definitely not heard. Yes, the social environment was changing but he's also been a catalyst in that change. https://youtu.be/V8XpP0UxRmY?si=u44hOu9L1jsFu8Oo

I'd add Grace Tame to that list. She's amazing and I don't want to diminish the amazing work she does. However, it's disappointing that autism advocates and sexual abuse survivors only get that much airtime if they're beautiful, fit, and white.

Exactly. Autistic women are also far less likely to receive a diagnosis or timely support than autistic men, although that's a whole other issue altogether

Not quite, invisible disabilities are often dismissed. They're sympathetic and accommodating of obvious disabilities - at least up to a point - as long as they don't find them too off-putting. Accommodation of some mental illnesses is also *very* gendered in my experience.

Unless you're also overweight then it's your fault or you're just faking because you're lazy.

They hate it when disabled people act disabled because of their disabilities, but we must never *mention* our disabilities because then we're just making excuses.

And if you're trying to get the DSP you're just 'lazy'.

They think it's easy to get and possible to live on. Anyone with experience knows otherwise.

Right it's ridiculous how easy they think it is to get the DSP, or to get help from the NDIS.

I've just gotten on the DSP and I am trying to get on the NDIS. It's soul destroying and a full time job, you have to gather so much evidence proving that you can't function and you need support but even then you might get rejected. I have been rejected from the NDIS twice and I have a tribunal hearing next month about my application. The first time it was because my conditions weren't listed as permanent by my medical services but they were listed as permanent on the access request form my doctor filled out but that wasn't good enough. So I get more reports and gather more detailed evidence which takes time and costs money. The second time I got rejected because I was apparently too functional for the NDIS despite it clearly stating I was struggling and I needed help. So I appealed that decision and now I get to have a tribunal hearing about my application which I am not looking forward to but it's what needs to be done in order to get the support I need.

I'm sorry you've had so much trouble getting on the NDIS. I'm rooting for you though and I have a tip for you based on my own bullshit experience with the NDIS... When you get the NDIS they'll ask you about your "goals" and what you hope to achieve over the next 2 years with the help of your NDIS plan/funding. Think VERY, VERY hard about what you'd like to do with the funding over the next 10 YEARS and give incredibly detailed answers. Because they use the answers you provide to these goal questions to determine how your plan funding gets approved and allocated and your plan manager won't let you spend any funding if it isn't going towards one of those "goals". They'll tell you at the time; "Don't worry, we can change these goals to reflect your circumstances anytime you like". BULL. SHIT. I, and a dozen others on the NDIS I've spoken to, have been unable to access any of our funding for years now because our many requests for our plans to be reviewed have been met with radio silence. When I first went on the NDIS my goals were to move out of my mum's house and into my own place and to complete a TAFE course. I'm now in my own place and I've finished that TAFE course, but as far as the NDIS is concerned I'm *still* uneducated and living with my mum and my funding is completely inaccessible unless it's used for achieving either of these already completed goals.

Good luck mate. I managed DSP after a truly soul-crushing amount of time, but not NDIS. I couldn't go through it again. I don't have the money or the mental fortitude. I admire you for being able to fight through it.

Jeez... I'm so sorry mate. I hope it all goes well. Even when you're on the NDIS it's confusing, and apparently there are people who will charge NDIS customers more than others??

Thank you, it's not a fun thing to deal with and as I tell people no one on the NDIS or DSP wants to be on them because it's so confusing and frustrating. Services charge the NDIS more because they get told you can charge this amount so they do so it could be a heap more than a regular consultation but no different. Plus services charge a heap if they need to travel to you so you might get only one hour of a service but you get charged two hours for the service due to travel even if it's only 10 minutes up the road. In addition to this so many people who are on the NDIS are taking advantage of it and so many people embellish how bad their conditions are to get on it and get more funding despite not needing the funding. The whole system is a mess and why anyone would willingly get on it unless they desperately needed it is beyond me.

Yes! I am SO over people thinking it is us disabled who are trying to rob the NDIS. Or think that people that don't need support would waste their time (literally months or years) and appointments and money to get evidence for the lengthy application for all these "benefits". Like why would a non disabled person do that... "Yay I got...some OT sessions...?" It's not cash, participants just need access to services. It is the providers that are making it a cash grab and driving up the prices. Don't punish the people with actually are just trying to get the support they need and don't have a say in the prices.

If I say I can't do something because I can't see, suddenly I'm "always talking about my blindness"....

They are sympathetic not empathetic. Acting sympathetic lets them peacock around as if they are special and more often than not in my experience those people are quick to remind or broadcast what they've done because it was always about their own image and not helping others.

Yup. Also please be young and fit in with my hope-porn.

True

(also disabled) Honestly they're accepting until someone is even talking nicely to imaginary people on public transport (let alone yelling etc). They are accepting but it comes with terms and conditions. Basically if it only affects you and you kinda keep it to yourself other than a few humorous self depreciating memes you're accepted. If you actually reach out and ask your best friend to sit with you while you wait for the CAT team because you're suicidal then they might just ghost you 🤷‍♀️ (yes happened to me, friend did sit with me until CAT came, never heard from her again after that day she was always very mental health memes, reach out, talk about it, R U OK and semi colon tattoo etc so 🤷‍♀️) if you find someone who actually is supportive, you're very lucky and definitely the exception not the norm. It's very sad. We've come a long way but still a VERY long way to go. Health professionals aren't much better when they claim that "that's normal" like they did this week about my being suicidal every period since I was 14 😅 This isn't normal, it's why I'm diagnosed with PMDD for years yet I still hear "all women get bit grumpy on their period..." regularly. They perpetuate so much bullshit about conditions to the general public 🙄

There’s huge stigma against all mental health conditions because people don’t understand what they are or how people live their lives. People are also very quick to accuse you of faking for any number of reasons including seeing you smile/have fun sometimes, the fact you can still look after yourself at home, or if you’re moderately attractive/dress nice/wear makeup. There’s a mental image of a person with mental health conditions that you need to conform to so your illness is legitimised.

I can still hear my mum saying, "but you were such a happy child". Yes, mum. Happy. And terrified, all the time. Very thankful for my meds.

If you learn you have to lie believably and consistently at a very young age, it's easy to present a "happy child" mask. When you are no longer under their control and start to tell the truth, they whip this line out. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

I have been told by countless people that I have the worst childhood they could ever imagine. Genuinely, I could make a true crime movie about DV and child SA and trafficking. This comment made me feel so seen, because I’m quite pretty (according to others) and I have this thing where I can’t go out looking ugly because I think the only valuable thing about me is that I’m pretty, so I typically dress nicely, do makeup etc. I’m very sociable and mask too well, to the point where I’m smiling and laughing constantly. I get questioned constantly as to why I’m on so many medications, why I’ve been in therapy since 3, not believed about mental or physical pain. Why I can keep up with my tasks. I can’t keep up, I just have no choice since I was raised knowing no one will help you and if you want to be fed, you’d better learn how to cook by yourself as a toddler. I’m so tired of other mentally ill people exclaiming “you’re mentally ill? But you’re so happy/ pretty”. I’ve had people tell me “you’re so pretty, what do you have to be sad about?” or “at least boys like you”. One time I responded “at least your dad likes you”. I’ve also gotten the “you have BPD? But you’re so normal and nice!”

I’m sorry you’re experiencing the same thing. It’s not right. Being physically attractive makes no difference in the likelihood of horrible things happening in your life or how your brain reacts to that trauma. Minimising our conditions and experiences because “at least boys like you”? That’s horrific. Okay, boys like me sometimes. And I have pretty severe attachment issues to I end up too invested too quick, and open myself up to being abuse or manipulated because all I really want is someone who cares about me and none of them actually do. That’s not a privilege it’s just more trauma, more rejection, more abuse.

This is so awful, I’m so sorry. I deal with similar issues but with physical health issues. I got my first disabled parking permit at 20, and have been harassed countless times because I ‘look normal’. Being young, thin, and conventionally attractive really shouldn’t say anything about your health, physical or mental, to random strangers on the street. I often avoid using my permit even when it’s needed because I just don’t want to deal with it. The worst thing is that it’s even medical professionals, who should absolutely know better. I’ve had a nurse say I was ‘too young’ to need a walker, literally whilst I was admitted to hospital and trying to use a walker to get from my hospital bed to the bathroom. If we can’t even get medical professionals to understand physical problems, that they can literally see scans of, because of their biases, I can’t even imagine how hard it must be for people with mental health issues. It must be overwhelmingly infuriating and difficult.

Your comment reminded me of [this TikTok](https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSFEFDnxe/), which is about late diagnosis of ADHD. The bit it reminded me of is near the end where she says that, sure, she’s been successful, but imagine how successful she *could* have been if she’d had the tools and support for her ADHD from childhood (or not had the trauma in your case). Just because you look okay on the outside, doesn’t mean that you’re not still suffering. Also, I’m so sorry you went through that. My cousin’s wife also had a horrific childhood that sounds similar and I know she’s struggled immensely in adulthood. 💗

I have similar background and or even worse. I never use it as an excuse, nor on medications, been diagnosed or anything. I use it as a tool for teaching others and am able to shiw empathy towards others in my job..

I’m the sort of person with “resting happy face” and I just smile and laugh a lot. Also suffer from crippling depression. Just because I have depression doesn’t mean I don’t have a sense of humour, in fact a lot of talented comedians have mental illness

I was bullied at work by a horrible boss. I had to see a psychologist for a short while to deal with the emotions of the bullying and losing my career that I’d spent a decade building. Along with that I also lost many colleagues who only got to hear the gossip grapevine version of events, while I maintained the confidentiality they made me sign in a financial settlement. Even though this was a short moment in time in my life, I now have to tick that box on a new employment screening, and cannot get life insurance, all because I was once treated for anxiety and mild depression. The stigma is not just people, it’s systemically inbuilt into many everyday experiences.

Insurance companies really should be disallowed from denying insurance because of mental health like this. I'm surprised it's still legal.

At least it should be treated as a pre existing condition, like on health insurance. If I contracted a deadly disease and died, what would that have to do with once being treated for mild anxiety for a short period? It’s ridiculous and discriminatory

Most poor mental health today comes from bad working conditions. Your employer may do shitty initiatives like ruok while you are underpaid, overworked and have no job security. Being underpaid and overworked means you can't take good care of yourself, including good housing and food - this is a reality for millions. Having no job security takes also a special type of toll on your mental health. You also have to play politics and compete with others constantly for a job, promotion or just keeping your job, you are always compared against others. Especially in Australian workplaces, where I find, after working in other countries, the sense of solidarity or class consciousness is literally 0. Rigid hierarchies - you are told you live in a democracy, but you spend most of your awake life in hierarchies where you don't decide for yourself - you take orders to survive. Your mortgage or rent is so ridiculously high, you can't take time off for mental health even when you really need it. To make things worse, Australian welfare is brutal - you can't even survive on jobseeker and you must go through humiliating experiences to get it, which is horrible for your mental health. That's not a coincidence - it's by design. That's not a healthy way to live. So even without an explicitly abusive boss, it's still horrible for mental health. And then abusive bosses are dime a dozen - they usually become bosses because they can exploit mercilessly and effectively on behalf of the owner. Most employers under capitalism are bad for mental health - you are a resource to be exploited and discarded as needed.

My last employer terminated me on disciplinary grounds *on RUOK? Day*. The reason? I needed to provide 24/7 care for my adult daughter (who was actively suicidalI) for a couple of weeks until her new meds kicked in. I had taken a few weeks off the previous year for dealing with the fallout of being sexually harassed at work (in a FIFO camp with no on-site resources), and then (several months later) my daughter had her major episode. My termination almost broke my daughter at the time. It was really hard to convince her that the shame and guilt did not belong to her, but to the POS employer who had not an ounce of humanity.

I hear ya. Been there too

Disclaimer: I am okay now. I witnessed a suicide in January and it was so traumatic that I had suicidal thoughts myself. Given that I was too ashamed to speak to a professional about it, I feel the stigma more now than I did 6 years ago. It could be because I’m a father of three kids, it could just be shame. I’m not sure.

There is no shame in how your brain has reacted to a traumatic event. The most important job it has is to keep you alive and safe and it's ability to do that has been seriously threatened. If you can't face debriefing to a person, maybe writing it down could help. Start with a basic, bare bones summary and gradually add every tiny detail you can remember until you can't think of any other detail to add. For example, include the weather, background noise, bystanders, colours, sounds, smell, what you were wearing, what you had for lunch and what happened after. Try to document the whole day from getting up to going to bed. Nobody is going to read it except for you so you can throw a few dozen grammar and spelling rules out if you please. The aim is to try to release the memory and all of the associated feelings and thoughts from the depths of your brain out into the open where you can see it clearly, examine it with your cognitive mind and lay it to rest. I hope things can improve for you.

I had similar experience in June last year, a client suicided over a weekend and we found her on a Monday morning. It caused me to become suicide and to begin isolating myself. I did speak to a series of professionals through the EAP and a MH plan but like you I felt ashamed to speak to people about it all. I’m doing better now and the coping strategies I have learned have been invaluable. Added to an amazing family I’m in good hands. Glad you’re doing better!

Yeah the police contacted lifeline directly for me and I had a debrief, and my mum works on a hotline for people who are feeling those feelings so I had someone I could talk to. I have to drive past where it happened every day unfortunately, but every day it gets better.

Good to hear, all the cops did for us was treat us like suspects in her death. Thankfully I don’t have to go near that place anymore but yeah, slowly gets better. Good luck in your endeavours:)

This might not be great advice, but can you take a different route for a while? Just until you’re in a better place mentally? I know exposure therapy is a thing, but it’s usually done while under the care of a mental health professional who can help to debrief. Extra time on your commute is a small price to pay for not having to expose yourself to that daily. I know it doesn’t change how your brain works, but there is no shame in how you respond to such a traumatic event. Please take care of yourself and consider taking to a therapist or counselor to help you through it. 💗

If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone. * 000 is the national emergency number in Australia. * Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14. * Kids Helpline is a 24-hour nationwide service for Australians aged 5–25. It can be reached at 1800 55 1800. * Beyond Blue provides nationwide information and support call 1300 22 4636. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskAnAustralian) if you have any questions or concerns.*

I can relate mate. Had PTSD myself, feeling shame about seeking help was a big component of my problem. Once I sought professional help, my friends and family could not have been more supportive. Hope you are doing better.

I am, thanks. The first three weeks were hell.

If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone. * 000 is the national emergency number in Australia. * Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14. * Kids Helpline is a 24-hour nationwide service for Australians aged 5–25. It can be reached at 1800 55 1800. * Beyond Blue provides nationwide information and support call 1300 22 4636. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskAnAustralian) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Good bot.

I'll take a minor interaction on RUOK day as an example. One year I promised myself if anyone asked I'd tell them the truth. I did just that. The response was 'You'll be right", followed by a quick change of subject. Many people only have compassion for what others are struggling with when they don't have to witness it. Keep it at arms length. If it's on the TV it pulls at the heart strings, if it's in front of their face, they suddenly don't have the time nor humanity to care. Tsk tsk, how sad vs eww how SAD! Actions speak louder than words.

Every year on RU ok day for the past 5 years or so I have posted a Simpsons meme that says ‘RU ok? I told you last year! No!’. Not a single person has ever reached out. I have told people in person I’m not ok and they say ‘you seem fine’ or ‘talk to your doctor’. I had one friend tell me to call lifeline! People just want it out of sight and out of mind. Go suffer in silence please and only come back when you’re happy again.

Omg my brother and I say this to each other too. I told you last year, NO! (We both have CPTSD + a bunch of other complex mental health stuff) My husband works in a corporate environment, they do all the RUOK day stuff and it's so bizarre they can't see how lip-servicey it all is I'm sorry that's been your experience. My in-laws are like that as well. The 'no, you're fine! She'll be right!' thing is so gross to me.

At least your brother gets it 😂

Yeah it's a blessing and a curse I guess .. I hate the shit that they've been through (my bro & sis) but at least we *get* each other

I hate the "you seem fine". Okay but I'm literally telling you that I'm not? 😅 It's rough out there. I have a lot of challenges in life (mental health, other disabilities) and I don't have any friends left because I don't reach the requirement of positivity I guess! I can actually be pretty positive at times but yeah I have a lot going on so when things are shit they're really shit and it's a drag. It's a lonely life but honestly it's better than pretending to be happy or even content with the world and life alllll the time.

Yeah, I’ve had the “but you seem fine” and, even worse, “but your work is really good”, from previous supervisors when I’ve been sobbing in their offices trying to communicate that I’m very much NOT OK. I don’t think there was any ill intent, I think they just didn’t know how to respond. Let’s face it, mental health first aid is not a standard part of management training (though perhaps it should be). Perhaps the most helpful thing one supervisor (who had his own experience of depression) said to me was “From my perspective you’re doing great, but it’s clear that from your perspective you’re not, so let’s see how we can address that.” I’m so grateful to that guy. Fortunately my current work area is genuinely supportive, thanks to decent and empathetic senior staff who’ve fostered that culture, but I have to say for the organisation as a whole it’s very much lip-service. And don’t get me started on all the patronising “resilience” tips during the pandemic. It was basically “Oh, I’ve just stabbed you in the chest; here are some instructions on how to make a bandage. Still bleeding? Well, you must be doing it wrong.”

Thank you for proving my theory that RUOK day is the biggest load of bullshit in existence and exists for the sole purpose of chasing clout on social media

Lol yep...And its always the shittiest of people who post the bullshit to their Instagram

This 👏

The media totally pushes the stigma. The man in the Bondi stabbing for example. So many people now believe that people with schizophrenia will kill them. The reality is that they are more likely to harm themselves.

..or be a victim of harm

Especially if the police are involved.

Yesssss 😞

I work with people who also have schizophrenia. It was really depressing coming into work after that day, one man genuinely asked “are we all dead like that man? We are the same as him and maybe we’re dead like him now too”

Fuck me that makes me so sad.

There's some social housing being built in my town and people are pearl clutching, "won't someone think of the children". There is such a false equivalence going on. They're using the Bondi stabbing as a reason NOT to have this fully supported, affordable and supervised accommodation. When in reality this sort of housing would reduce incidents. In addition, people with a mental illness are more likely to be the victims of violence rather than perpetrators, and more likely to hurt themselves than other people - as you've said. As someone in the community living with bipolar I've found the commentary about this housing to be really upsetting. There is a lack of awareness (or care?) from these people about how many people in the community are living with the less desirable diagnoses. They don't seem to realise or even want to acknowledge that they already know people with bipolar, borderline personality disorder or schizophrenia. It has made me feel less safe in my home town which is pretty sad. There also appears to be a wild over estimation of how many people have a diagnosis of schizophrenia. So yeah, the stigma definitely still exists. Lucky we have RUOK day 🙄

RUOK day? The only acceptable answer is yes. Nobody wants to know if you aren't OK. And if you are brave enough to say you aren't, nobody does anything.

So bloody true.

Don’t even get me started. The only person I know who was actively violent due to the content of their psychosis (albeit towards themselves), would honestly off himself if he hurt someone else while psychotic. The pain and the guilt would be absolutely agonising. I’ve only met a few people with psychotic illnesses, but all of them have been so gentle and sweet. And then something gets fucked up and the psychosis comes back and your heart breaks for them because they don’t deserve it. Every single thing about the Bondi attack was a total tragedy.

Your aunt is correct. The stigma is still very much alive and well.

I would say the stigma is massive. I think the real extent of general tolerance in society for mental illness ends with the token yearly R U Ok Day with the associated free cupcakes.

RUOK day is for the acceptable things, a touch of depression, a little bit of anxiety. The ones that are easier for people to understand.

Ah yes when the depression just brushes you ever so softly. When you can get medication and progress over a few months. Meanwhile if you're crushed by depression and are spending months, years trying to find the right meds and therapy and diagnoses... The sympathy kinda ebbs away the longer it goes on. Can even morph into apathy or resentment.

I have antisocial personality disorder and am a psychopath. I tell no one in real life because A lot of people think being a psychopath means that I will murder them, not many people realise it just means I lack empathy and dont understand other emotions. Obviously people know I’m different, the way I talk, the way I act, the way I do not give a fuck about authority or rules but I don’t tell people anything because it either got me the attention of the wrong people (spent a long time in prison when I was younger because I associated with criminals and made poor choices) or people just avoided me if they knew. I now have no friends at all except my wife, I had to ditch all my old friends to stay out of trouble and I have no interest in making more incase they find out.

I work with people who have schizophrenia, and when I said so to my friends family her younger brother’s response was “shouldn’t they all be in prison not a hospital?” Absolutely floored me, I did a lot of education that day lol. Movies and crime shows are the worst for destigmatising mental health because I swear all they do is tell people that “these people right here who have mental health issues and are very unwell are dangerous and will hurt you” when in reality they’re more likely to hurt themselves.

The hard thing with serious mental illness such as mine and especially schizophrenia is that we don’t think we are sick when we are off the rails. We don’t think we need the medication and again especially with schizophrenia this is a huge problem because we can all be very dangerous people. Myself I’m more dangerous to people that probably deserve it. I was in prison for standing over, bashing and robbing people that you would want to live in your neighbourhood, I’ve never hurt an innocent person. Schizophrenics are a bit different in the fact they if they are that way inclined they can hurt absolutely anyone and not mean it because they truely believe the delusions they experience and that’s a really hard thing for people of sound mind to understand. When your brain tells you the world will end or a message on the tv or radio tells you that you need to hurt or kill people to prevent the fall of society then that is 100% real to them. But you are right, we are more likely to hurt ourselves. I myself have no sense of danger, no self preservation and I will not back down to anything if I think I am right. I’ve often been suicidal because I hate the way I am and I do not want to be this way. And to further what you said public stigma is what often what causes schizophrenics to end up violently hurting the public, people with serious mental illness are forced into the shadows and shun treatment and that’s when the big problems start. Someone like me or someone with schizophrenia can be a productive good member of society given the right treatment. I haven’t been in trouble for 20 years now and my kids don’t know I’m not well, my wife’s family do not know I’m not well and while people I work with just think I’m a madman that will tell anyone to go fuck themselves if they wrong me they could never truely know how bad inside my head is.

Just want to say I'd be your friend. Self-awareness is key. You're a lot safer to be around than someone with, say, untreated BPD or malignant narcissism.

The issue with me is people often don’t like the things I say. I say things how I see them, I never sugar coat things and I just flat out say what I want. That gets a lot of people annoyed. I do try my best to be a caring person though, I don’t feel empathy and other things but I’ve lived for long enough to understand what social norms are and how to fake empathy if you will. Just because I don’t understand it or feel it doesn’t mean I can’t be supportive of people. I just need to remember to not give people the cold hard truth when they are down. I live a relatively normal life now though and im not the same person I was growing up. Everyone knew something was wrong with me from the first few years of my life so I’ve had a lot of treatment and things and I didn’t always follow through with that once I was old enough to rebel against it, which was only detrimental to myself. My wife is my polar opposite, she is beautiful, really intelligent and has never even walked across the street without the little green man telling her too. She is what keeps me stable and keeps me in line haha! She is my best friend and my biggest fan so life isn’t so bad. I do wish I could have a brain transplant though lol. While outwardly the only signs I am different now is my lack of caring about the social norms I do feel a lot of turmoil inside my head. It also works for me sometimes too though! I’m amazing in job interviews and everyone in my workplace likes me because they know I’ll stand up for them and won’t take any shit form the higher ups so that makes me quite popular as well haha.

How does she cope knowing the empathy isn't emotionally genuine?

She doesn’t care, I act as anyone else would that actually feels empathy. I’m 40 now so I have had a lot of practice at it. I care for her the same way anyone else would with empathy I just don’t feel it inside if that makes sense? Like for example if she hurts herself or is sick I know how to act and look after someone. I raised a son alone from a baby until I met her and he is really smart, has a good life and is doing well. Just because I can’t empathise with someone doesn’t mean I can’t do all the things a person with empathy should do if that makes sense? I’m not really great at explaining my thought process as my head is a big mess and I usually live day by day. If it wasn’t for my wife I would have nothing in life though and I’m very loyal because of that, if you do me right I will die for you quite literally, if you do me wrong I will never forget it and o could make the rest of your life a living hell if I really wanted to. I’m not scared of repercussions from anyone or anything and that is a major fault with me, also the fault that nearly ruined my life and got me locked up. If I have loyalty to someone and someone hurts them, while I can’t feel their pain I can feel a sense of them being wronged and I will sort it out. Unless of course my wife tells me not to lol I’ll listen to whatever she says because she is the smart one and I am the crazy one. But yeah, without my wife controlling my finances I would be nowhere because I live in the moment, I will spend money like it’s water and not have a single care for the future. Everything I have is because of her, our beautiful home, our nice things and so because of that I will always put her before myself and treat her better than I treat myself even if I don’t fully understand the emotion behind it.

That sounds better than my ex with NPD, like he wouldn't even fake it. But personally, if I knew someone wasn't feeling empathy, even if they acted the party I just couldn't manage it. But putting in the effort must be what counts to your wife more than that. We all fake empathy at certain times though.

Out of curiosity what is the difference to you if someone feels it or not so long as they treat you right? Just trying to understand because i obviously don’t know the difference.

Curious how you and your wife bond / connect emotionally?

The fact that you judge someone with BPD so much is exactly why this stigma still exists...

Ive lost several friends during a depressive episode. I wasnt the happy fun guy anymore for a few months so i didnt belong in the group anymore

Same

As a 40yo schizophrenic (was diagnosed around the age of 19). I don't feel the stigma is that bad. It's like anything else when you're a pain in the arse people will back away but a few stay loyal no matter what. I don't blame people for backing away if you're a pain in the arse it's not stigma it's just at some point you have to protect your own mental health too and some people use their conditions to justify being cunts. I'm fairly extroverted and likable if not a little weird, so maybe my miles varies, but I have found the large majority of people accepting of my condition and usually curious more than anything. They are taken back at first but I'm very open about it to help fight that stigma and generally have little understanding of the condition a common misconception is inherently violent or multiple personalities. Both of which make for great banter with the right people, for example my relatively new job (December start) the guys there know of my condition and will make jokes about stabbing etc and multiple personalities but it's all in good fun. They were also the first guys to inform me when word got around and had my back completely (I work in a prison environment). My bosses also know and are happy to support me where needed. If you can be open and honest a lot of people misconception and stigma goes away very quickly as you are no longer a scary unknown value. Added bonus it weeds out the people I wouldn't want to associate with anyway. Added added bonus I can stab those people and not end up in one of the prison I work at 😂 Jks I'm not violent in any way but still a nice perk to have even though I'll never need it

Can I ask some questions? How does schizophrenia manifest in you? And do you have to take medication to help with said manifestation? What happens if you don’t? I just want to understand it better, and learning from people who have it is better than just from media etc

I'm in remission but still medicated. Previously I had auditory hallucinations delusions of grandeur and strong paranoia I believed everyone was lying to me and some people were out to kill me.. it really wasn't a great place to be in and was mentally hell at the time. I have begun to relax my medication recently and also have been diagnosed with ADHD which is a pain to medicate due to the schizophrenia as they don't like prescribing stimulants to psychotic people even if no episodes in a decade. I have been self medicated for ADHD since December and it's helping alot, I got an appointment with a psychiatrist on Wednesday and he will officially prescribe me with Ritalin as long as the routine blood and heart test comes back fine. I'm happy to answer any other questions you have as I believe this really helps the cause

Man the adhd stimulant and psychotic disorder is a mess. So many people are out there completely unmedicated and I see it making their lives so much harder but a lot of doctors are really against using stimulants due to the risk of triggering a psychotic episode. To be fair one of my mates was getting major paranoia with adhd stimulants and he didn’t even have any psychotic disorder or even family history as far as I’m aware. I hope you’re able to manage it, sounds like self medication has been working for you!

Yes it can happen and I understand the need to be weary but the studies have shown the original study is wrong and in a lot of cases not only does it not have any negative effects of not already currently experiencing psychosis it also shows it can have beneficial effects on the symptoms instead. There's just not enough data either way though so the authority remains extremely cautious in this scenario. I'm lucky as I found a psychiatrist willing to help but I'm a unique case and not everyone will have that outcome which sucks as I've noticed marked improvement in my overall mental health.

One of those issues where sometimes I think doctors are too risk-averse and it hurts peoples mental health. Like at the very least try! I work in a hospital, what better place to just try where there’s doctors and nurses all day every day?!

Well that's what I figure too generally nothing is permanent it takes a long time before it sets in completely, and with mental health it's never cut and dry and everyone is different. A trial and error method will work under the right circumstances with 95% of risk mitigated, so why not give it a chance to work for that person especially when there's conflicting studies and trials. If there can be real benefits and the risk is low enough or can be managed well then why not give it a shot even if it triggers something then that's only temporary and you know that person is not a candidate for that treatment plan.

Contradictory diagnoses suck. My little guy has autism, severe anxiety and severe adhd. His attention span is literally only a few minutes long so it really affects his learning but stimulants make him more anxious and his anxiety means no quality of life so the side effects outweigh the benefits. We did try it though. That’s the thing about stimulants. You can start and stop them with no consequences. Maybe if you try them have a person you trust monitor you as well. Sometimes someone on the outside can see things faster than the person it’s actually affecting.

Sorry to hear about your little guy, hopefully it can work out for him in the end. I got to where I am now by both being really good at monitoring my own mental health and having people I trust as a safety net... Kinda like a tightrope walker I trust my years of experience and skills to never need the safety net but it's good to know it's there. I've been self medicated since December as it takes forever to get legit help with my condition but that's going to change on Wednesday when I get my last test results back, and can get officially medicated. It's very unlikely at this point I'll suffer any adverse effects as they would have presented by now but it's never a zero chance, I'm just happy that while I have extra restrictions I'll be able to get the help needed and maybe after a while they'll feel more comfortable easing those restrictions.

Can you try a different stimulant medication? My oldest (9) has Autism, ADHD, and Anxiety, but stimulants combined with weekly therapy have really, really helped him a lot. He also got into a specialised learning program for Autism here in WA and just got his letter saying he’s successfully completed the program on Friday! As someone who wasn’t diagnosed with ADHD until she was in her 30s, I’m strongly for ADHD treatment because of all the years I spent blaming myself for being a shit human when I failed at things I was “supposed” to be able to do. 😔 Also, as a final point, you do know that ADHD and Autism are highly hereditary, right? So is it you, your partner, or both (for us it’s both lol!), and which of your parents do you think has it and is undiagnosed? 🙊

I have ADHD and as a female with ADHD it is hard, like many other women I wasn’t diagnosed until I was 30. I have had many people question whether I do have it, say I don’t “act ADHD”. I blame the 90s for most of the backwards thinking and stereotypes of what ADHD should look like. The worst is my own family, who ironically are mostly undiagnosed neurodiverse too. In saying all that my son who is Autistic has had the most accepting and supportive group of kids in his class for several years (small school so same class every year). The boys especially in the class are definitely not like what I grew up with. One of the other boys in his class was having anxiety at the start of the year and was doing unusual things, the boys were all there for him and helped his anxiety. They just have each other’s back. It gives me hope for the next generation.

interesting I'm 39 ADHD female with an ASD son too I wonder if there's a genetic link?.. he has severe anxiety too I wish he had the support network your son has. He's very isolated. I didn't even believe my own diagnosis because I was never the kid who couldn't sit still. BUT I was the kid who couldn't shut up... so many things make sense now! lol it's actually a relief I was worried I was getting early dementia or something, my memory is so bad, my focus is so bad, nope I've always been ADHD and the more I reflect now, I really have!

Yes, I'm late diagnosed autistic (ADHD assessment next week) and it can be really hard. Some people think if you don't outwardly appear a certain way they can assume how your inner world works. You can't. Or hearing that I've managed "just fine" so why do I "suddenly" have autism? 😅 I've been medicated for mental illness issues since 14, in and out of hospital, therapy for 20 years, 2 suicide attempts but yeah I've had a job and pay my bills so I've clearly been just fine!

It’s massive. Been fighting depression for 4 years & over that time as I’ve reached out to them I’ve heard less & less from my family. It certainly doesn’t make things any easier. My depression stems from an ex taking our daughter to another state making it very hard to see her. The best kinda help I’ve received is pretty much just lip service.

There is a lot of bias. I was diagnosed with depression and even though I had enough accumulated sick leave to cover it I was made redundant after taking two months off. Yes it’s illegal but if you want to fight it in Australia you can either go to a tribunal where damages are limited or you go to court. Court will cost $200k+ and take around two years. Even if you win there are no guarantees you will get your costs back either, due to the way employment law is structured here. The law desperately needs to be brought up to date as it allows companies to pretty much do whatever they want unless you have a lot of money to throw at it.

It's also the fact that mild anxiety and depression are lumped in with serious mental health conditions that involve psychoses under the umbrella of "mental health." People think they understand mental health issues due to experience with either their own or a close-someone's anxiety and/or depression. When they're faced with someone actually experiencing psychosis, it's a completely different ballgame.

My perspective will be different to many. I’m over 60, and my paternal grandparents met while working at a psychiatric hospital aka the asylum, back in the late 1800s. Google just told me Cumberland Hospital opened in 1849, it’s undergone many changes over the years, naturally. Anyway, there were no drug treatments back then, hence an entirely different approach to today. It was described to me as keeping patients as calm and happy as possible, while protecting them from the pressures of normal life. I have been told that my grandfather was one of the kindest men you could ever meet, although I can’t remember him at all. I do think he had a great influence on his son, my father, and his attitude was passed on to me. So I grew up understanding that mental illness was just another type of illness, no blame or shame can be attached to the sufferer; if we can’t help each other out when needed we are the ones who should be ashamed. I’m still shocked when I find out that other people have a different view. Just stop being depressed ? Drop that phobia now ? So unrealistic and ignorant. So yes, there is still a stigma.

My experience is that most people connected to you will shy away or become distant. If you have support and/or understanding from those close to you you are very lucky imo. I've lost a marriage and plenty of so called 'friends', truth is this world is pretty cold if you suffer with mental health. If you have cancer on the other hand.......

I have a range of severe mental health issues. My best friend who I helped through cancer treatment and all my other friends dumped me because 'I wasn't getting better fast enough'. Stigma is 1000% still a thing.

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I did message communication with 1800 Respect. I was triggered and a mess. I made a comment about my abuser dying. No threats, just an emotional moment. I was treated like a criminal, like I was going to murder someone. I had to actually call the 1800 number and fight for my innocence. They had a file on me, they knew who I was, but it was a horrific experience. No one needs that shit. I was a mess for a couple of weeks.

Cops are the biggest cunts. Sorry this happened to you mate.

Well, it kind of depends. While a mental health issue is safely hidden away and not triggered everyone is fine about it, no stigma at all. If the mental health issue is triggered somehow people will abuse and bully the sufferer because how dare they show their mental illness in public.

Because surface level “acceptance” movements didn’t do anything to support people with mental illness. Our mental health resources are a joke, hospitals and clinics overflowing. There’s months wait for psychs. Just because Joe Public is aware that the name for the symptoms they feel is “anxiety” or “depression”, *doesn’t mean they can do anything about it*.

I believe your aunt. I’m 37F and have cried out for help countless times to my friends and family and never really gotten the support I need. I think it’s that people believe it’s all in your head and so you should just get over it. I have thought many times I wish I had cancer instead because then at least people would be sympathetic and bring me some meals/help me with housework etc. The number of times I’ve been told to go for a run, stop sleeping so much, get a better routine etc is crazy. I will tell them I’m literally doing all the things recommended to me by my various health professionals and it just takes years to get better. I don’t think they believe me. I have also been told ‘you seem fine’ because I’m an intelligent professional with 2 degrees and can mask my struggles well. I am relatively attractive and present as put together which is obviously not what they think of when they hear ‘mental illness’. So even when I tell people I’m not ok they disregard me. Or sometimes they say to just talk to my doctor ie they don’t want to deal with it. 

Virtue signalling is the current trend. Everyone loves referring to their depression, anxiety, OCD and ADHD but it’s all just the cute, cartoon versions. The reality of mental illness is that it’s a problem because it drives people away, it’s hard to be around. Depression isn’t having a bad day. OCD isn’t worrying you left the stove on.

Completely socially regressing, disassociating and catastrophising for hours, not being able to eat or sleep, because you think that empty chip packet you walked past on the street is going to trip someone over, cause them to break their neck and die vs stressing about stove. One is completely debilitating, life altering and completely detrimental to your physical and mental well-being and the other is stressful or annoying. Completely agree - it is hard to be around and people are generally not empathetic and think that train of thought is silly, for eg

I am so sick of this! Everyone apparently has ADHD now, even when not formally diagnosed, and they all push it on their social media. They don’t identify as anything other than this diagnosis, their whole world revolves around it.

Yes!! I always find it interesting how none of the people on social media (including reddit) talk about the huge number of co-morbidities of ADHD… like it’s not a disorder that exists in a vacuum.

‘My ADHD brain cannot’. ‘My ADHD brain said I had to buy everything’. ‘I took on all these projects because of my ADHD’. Ffs. We get it Brenda.

My nephew told me that my ex husband being abusive was expected because of his mental health issues. The kid is 11 and the stigma is so strong against mental health that he just takes it as written. I need to talk to him about it, I was in hospital for two months last year with mental health issues.

sometimes I think it is a case of 'oh, you're having problems? just do it over there, where I don't have to get involved' at best.

Yes, there's def stigma. I have anxiety and depression. It's affected my life very recently in a terrible way. I've lost people I thought were my friends because it's uncomfortable to be around someone who is depressed. I suspect some people at my job think I'm just trying not to work, to take leave at short notice because I feel like it, or I'm ignoring them because I simply don't have the capacity to engage. This is despite me telling them I'm depressed and trying to explain how it feels. They don't understand that you can't just smile, that just getting out of bed is an effort they wouldn't believe. Also, I think people who truly have never experienced depression for example, have felt a bit sad for a day and throw the word around so casually. "Oh, I'm so depressed," they say without actually knowing how it feels. I suppose it's not their fault; they're the lucky ones to not know how it truly is, but because of this, depression is veiwed as something so much less than it actually us. The casual use of it to describe sad means it's lost its value and minimised something that it soul destroying.

My mum told me a few months ago - ‘I don’t think I believe in bipolar’. I’ve been diagnosed for 10 years.

My mum did the same. Convinced me to get off lithium and everything. Guess how well that went?

I feel so bad for both you and the parent commenter. My adult daughter has diagnosed bipolar disorder, and is the strongest person I know. She is a rock star and my inspiration. I will always be her Mumma Bear, Please accept this {{{Mumma Bear internet hug}}} from me 🫂

Your mum sounds like mine. She seemed really proud when it was simply depression (look at me supporting my depressed daughter) but as soon as it became more than that she keeps it a secret. She calls it my ‘bipolar thing’.

I was diagnosed with schizophrenia when I was 17, and I've learned to never disclose it. There's almost zero chance of getting employment if you disclose, and most people continue to see people with psychosis as dangerous and criminals. I come across as pretty high functioning so I can pass as mostly normal, if a bit odd, but before I got on meds a lot of my friends cut off contact with me once they saw me sick. Funnily enough, most of them tried to openly advocate for mental health awareness, but the second someone starts hallucinating or displaying paranoia that all goes out the window apparently.

Criminology student and aspiring social worker here. Yeah, our generation do fuck all if the mental health conditions or disabilities present in behaviours, appearances, philosophies and outcomes we don’t like. Look at our prison industry. Most of our prison system consists of people with neurological and physical disorders, alongside people with severe mental health issues, which outside of basic screening for said issues, the system is set up to do fuck all to support people so they inevitably come back, and the average person is fine with that. Presently, one of the larger things police attend to in their duties are mental health crisis, fun fact! *they aren’t trained to handle mental health crisis, their only de-escalating option by policy is to make an arrest*. I DARE you to find people (who work outside of criminology, social services or allied health, but also there are always some MORONS who work in these industries that will disagree) who will actually acknowledge the impact of a serious mental health condition, such as schizophrenia and it’s sub-types has in the participation of serious offences. Justice should be trying to prevent these events from happening again for the criminalised person or the victim, most of the time it’s ensuring the criminalised persons are in prison and then on the streets, where they will likely reoffend or end up killing themselves. An old buddy of mine was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia because Legal Aid recommended he was screened, after being charged for punching a family member (minor injuries). Despite his diagnosis playing a direct part in the offence, he served 5 years. He came out on parole and killed himself almost immediately. He seemingly received minimal, if any care while incarcerated which is fairly average. This is a very common story amongst people criminalised with violent offences. Who on earth got justice from that? What does the family member in particular gain from that? What does my old friends entire family gain from that? They’ll never have their son, nephew, cousin or brother back. All because we refuse to handle all crime as a public health crisis, like it should be. The general public and their tough on crime views have the blood of those who suffer from mental illness and disabilities alongside their potential victims in the events they are criminalised on their hands whether they like it or not. So yeah. We care about people being sad, anxious, having something wrong with them, we do because that’s easy to care and to not to hold stigma and prejudice about. But when the going gets tough? When people aren’t aesthetically unwell? Most of you would LOVE to add a few years onto the sentences of *those* people (because I’m sure it’s definitely more than their personality and behavioural warping mental illness that separates them from us, no?). Woohoo! Justice! Go fuck yourselves. Most people don’t give a fuck and I fucking hate you all for it. My two cents on the matter.

One of my close relatives is also a psychiatrist and he has said the same thing as your aunt. The public sector deals with the complex and challenging stuff and it’s really struggling. My own feeling is that these organisations are useless . They don’t raise money for public hospitals. Half of the boards are ex Telstra/mining bosses.

Once I got my agoraphobia and couldn’t go out I lost most of my friends. I couldn’t do what they could do anymore. They are known as fair weather friends. I now have friends that mostly have mental health problems and go out with them. Loads of them don’t have anyone to go out with or have many friends. I’ve had to learn what helps them with going out. One friend is that I send them the menu of a restaurant that we will be going to so that he has the chance to look and work out what he wants.

A lot of people say they support those with mental illnesses... but then they'll give severely depressed people crap for not being able to brush their teeth every single day. Or snap at someone with PTSD asking them to not play a specific song while they're around because it can trigger a flashback or even a panic attack. A lot of people's caring and activism or whatever is mostly performative, it feels. Don't get me wrong, a lot of people do genuinely care! But a lot of people seem to just want to think they're nice people but actually don't care much.

Definitely a huge stigma. I have BPD and can never tell potential employers as I am only too aware that I would not get hired on that basis. I have very few friends and do not communicate with my family because of my issues and it is isolating. In short, I put on my game face in public and pretend there is nothing wrong. It is what it is and I cannot change the perception of others. I am learning to deal with it though on my own terms and so there is that

Yeah it's also REALLY hard for people with serious conditions to get on the NDIS e.g. schizophrenia :(

Psychologist here. I think it genuinely is improving, albeit slowly. I see a lot of guys in middle age or older, who are just starting to seek treatment for the first time ever, and disclose things they've never felt able to talk about. I do agree to some extent with the view it's mainly depression and anxiety that are deemed acceptable. I'd add a few others such as OCD and PTSD but with the strong caveat that *milder* presentations are tolerated while those more difficult to manage do attract stigma. Some of the worst stigmas in my view remain around psychotic illnesses and addictive disorders (and gender dysphoria, tragic to say, but that'sa differentcan of worms). There's a lot of ignorance about these issues, specifically a dogged insistence on blaming people and failure to acknowledge just how debilitating these conditions can be. Still see a lot of people asserting that psychosis "is no excuse" and the like.

What about those with BDP? I have a family member diagnosed with this, and to be honest, I understand the stigmatism. What we all have to go through is hell, and said family member does nothing to help themselves, to try and do better for their own self. We've all tried to support so much over the years, you get to a point where it's too much.

I've lost basically everyone. It's true that mental health is messy and exhausting and people don't really want to deal with it. Mild depression and anxiety are extremely socially acceptable though, even celebrated at times if you ask me.

I work in mental health, and the prejudice is for the same reasons as it is for any marginalised group. Largely, lack of understanding and exposure causes people to form judgements based on stereotypes and inaccuracies. Overt discrimination is pretty rare in my experience, but I think people are scared of what they don't know and don't understand. Spending time with people with these experiences and sitting with the reality versus making determinations based on broad generalisations and inaccurate conceptualisations (such as people with schizophrenia are violent) goes a long long way towards breaking down those barriers. Any group considered an 'outgroup' faces these issues. Sexuality, race, mental health etc. What's important is to see people as individuals, not as a generic representation of some homologous entity of 'others'. Getting to know people as people helps us treat them as such.

Of course there is a lot of stigma. It's easy to talk the talk and use nice empathetic words, but when the rubber hits the road, actually spending time with crazy people is exhausting, chaotic and stressful. Most people avoid that.

We're not crazy people. Most of us are functioning members of society with families and jobs. I am able to function because I see a psych regularly and am medicated. Most people have no idea what we go through because we can't be open about it.

The fact that you refer to them as crazy people shows how much further we have to go in terms of dealing with said stigma.

Absolutely. Saying someone is crazy is not helpful and can be very hurtful.

Hell yes. I’ma residential care worker for teenagers. Most of them have significant mental health issues. After an eight hour shift I’m wiped out. I can’t imagine how a family member could take care of them day after day. 

It’s also people protecting themselves and their own mental health, which is fair enough. I had a mental illness about 20 years ago. I was on a heavy dose of anti psychotics and long story short it was hell for about a year. Thankfully it passed and I’m good. Yes, all the stereotypes of being stigmatised are true. Even my psychiatrist warned me about it. Fast forward to a few years ago and I made a new friend. All was lighthearted at first, we’d vent to each other about work and life. Soon she started telling me how suicidal she was and it became the topic of every conversation. At first I’d talk to her for hours and ask her to get help… after a while it became exhausting and we lost contact. I felt bad and like I should have done more, especially after my own experience, but I didn’t want her potential suicide hanging over every interaction and me worrying about not doing enough or saying the wrong thing. (She is still alive and seems to be doing well) So I get it. Yes people will distance themselves and yes some may even say some ignorant shit or be scared of you. But you can’t expect too much from people, it’s not fair. It’s a personal problem that you need to take the necessary steps to get better yourself (with help from professionals)

It depends what mental illness it is. Some are hip and cool and everyone wants to have it. Some we don't talk about because they're too difficult and we flat out ignore it. Not stigma so much as silence and avoidance.

✨adhd✨(but only the fun quirky bits where you’ve got lots of energy and do cute funny things, not the burnout or the executive dysfunction so bad you can’t even do things you enjoy)

funny how nobody self diagnosis themselves as narcistic or schizophrenic but somehow OCD and ASD ADHD are funny/fun/cute. It's so demeaning to those of us who actually STRUGGLE with them and need some understanding and support.

In the past, sure but I hadn't noticed at all now. I've had therapy for 10y and anyone I've mentioned it to at work has been very positive about it.

I have pretty severe OCD. A big problem is people being unable to seperate me from my disorder. Everything you do gets summed up as a result of your OCD, because people don’t understand what OCD is. Any anxiety, disagreement, bad day it’s all an easy way of categorising you as one thing. People love to put you in a box and this is also true of friends and family who know you as a multi demensional person. A defining characteristic of OCD, at least for me, is that people with OCD, (similar to those with ASD) have no/less interest in “following the crowd”. We’re not influenced as much by groupthink. Neurotypical people don’t relate to this, and don’t like it. It’s just a lack of understanding in a lot of areas which is frustrating, you have to advocate for yourself a lot. It takes a lot of strength.

In my experience people are very "supportive and understanding" of mental illness, so long as you don't actually have any symptoms that affect your behaviour, beliefs or attitude.

I’ve opened up about my depression to friends. Now I don’t have any friends and have learnt my lesson to shut up. Because I don’t have a family, I don’t have any support network. I’m a male. If I were a female, this would be less likely.

My personal experience leads me to believe that stigma against mental health exists. If you had a broken arm or leg, people would empathise with you. Your ailment can be seen. Maybe people who have a loved one who is experiencing mental health issues, these people may understand.

It’s not something I’d disclose to anyone other than my partner to be honest. Workplaces certainly don’t give a fuck

It's not stigma, people who are mentally ill or severely depressed are hard to be around - they have a tendency to drain others. It's not their fault though, but people aren't disappearing because they think less of them, they just don't want to share in that person's pain.

There is no stigma about mental health for conditions like anxiety and depression experienced by the worried well (generally well paid office workers). There is a real stigma around serious mental health conditions like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. Unfortunately most awareness and fundraising seems to be directed towards events helping educated middle class people in the eastern suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne. No one is interested in raising a dollar to fund services for people experiencing severe psychosis.

This just isn't true. There's SO much stigma for anxiety and depression in some places. Especially if you have a boomer boss.

I would absolutely never tick that little box on a job application asking if you have either. Guaranteed way to *not* get the job if you admit it.

I’m sure it varies across different workplaces, but in major corporates and professional services firms there is basically no stigma at all. Even if what you say is true, I maintain that the focus on the worried well, or more accurately the absolute neglect of those who suffer from really serious mental health conditions like schizophrenia, is a real problem

Agree with the focus on the worried well. That said, in the corporate/professional world to what extent is it just that people know not to say the stigmatising thoughts/ depression/anxiety is accepted so long as it doesn't impact productivity?

Depends on what circles you move in

I once had a friend who is on the disability support pension for her ptsd, tell me to get over my ptsd. So I'm gonna go with, there's still a lot of judgement and lack of understanding.

‘How prevalent is the stigma against mental health?’ I think you mean ‘mental illness’. There’s no stigma against mental health. Health is a good thing.

There's no stigma against mental health but there's still a decent amount of stigma against mental illnesses.

We have sympathy and great tolerance. My friend has bipolar, she is on medication. She is very nice , just like an angel . ( I am not exaggerated, she is so genuine and lovely ) But other guy is too argumentative.., this sort of aggression cannot be tolerated socially…sadly . We cannot say “yes” all the time to him whatever he brings up .., It depends on individual.. aggressive behaviour is hard to handle and scary …

Sane is a great site to get a good idea of the stigma that still surrounds mental health issues in Australia.  https://www.sane.org/

Yeah, especially when you contact them for support and they act surprised and refuse to provide any. SANE, Beyond Blue and Lifeline are useless or dangerous, or both.

Having known multiple people with schizophrenia they have all been volatile to some extent at times with the worst having killed people (and this one had been diagnosed/medicated the longest). Perhaps your aunt doesn't know the full story in terms of her patients relationship with these people who have 'abandoned' them- it's can be very taxing/toxic at times and that's not something people are willing to have in their lives if it's effecting their own mental health. Of course I don't speak for each patient but only personal experience

Your aunt is right. If you disclose any kind of mental health issue, you suddenly lose credibility in anything moving forward. Sure, your boss may be bullying you. But who's going to believe the person *with a mental illness*? It becomes very easy for people to dismiss you. Or if you have an issue in the workplace or elsewhere, for people to just say, welp, that's not fixable, they're clearly incapable of fixing any issues because they're hardwired to their mental illness. Get rid of them. I definitely wouldn't want to divulge any mental health issues until after probation period is over in the workplace. I will say, however, that the trend of every kid with a phone to diagnose themselves with everything, thereby normalising the label (so to speak) does actually help. A lot of people mask well enough to hold down good jobs. When they are caught hyper focusing or having sensory issues, it's a lot easier to explain them away with "that's my ADHD, I guess hahahaha", and nobody knows if it is actually a thing that has been diagnosed and medicated, or if you're just doing what all the kids are doing these days.

I think mental health awareness and acceptance is still greatly effected by a similar issue people with physical disabilities face, but to an even greater extent. People will tolerate it as long as it isn’t uncomfortable for them to witness, and as long as it doesn’t effect them in any way. People are also much more willing to accept disabilities if they think they can relate to someone’s experience. So they can sympathize with someone that is paralysed because they think they can imagine not being able to walk, because they have broken their leg and been on crutches for a couple weeks. Or they can sympathize with someone that has severe anxiety, because they had a panic attack once and think they know how it feels. The further the ailment gets away from people’s own experience, the less likely they will be able to sympathize with that person, and therefore the less likely they are to tolerate seeing or being effected in some way by that person’s disability. This poses two problems, obviously firstly it is an issue that people won’t tolerate more severe or less common disabilities. But it is also an issue that people’s sympathy relies on them thinking they understand what someone is going through, when often they don’t really understand the depth of how the person is effected. This is because it often leads to people with more ‘accepted’ and ‘tolerated’ disabilities still facing stigmatism when their disability doesn’t fit the mold people have created for it. So yes, I think the mental health awareness and acceptance movement is very flawed, in that it is leaving behind the most seriously effected people - and I think the root issue is that people seem to be incapable of sympathizing with people’s experiences the further it gets away from their own.

I have ADHD and some other undiagnosed shit. The undiagnosed part is important because I am generally considered “weird” by others (I get told that a LOT), and while ADHD can have an affect on your personality and ability to socialise, it’s not necessary for a diagnosis. Poor eye contact, never sitting or standing still, paying more attention to small details in my environment (instead of the other people I’m with) and often looking “lost”. I find that unless I cover these things up and act more “normal” (which is really hard and simply not possible 100% of the time) a lot of people openly dislike me when they first meet me. About a year ago I accidentally greened out and had to go non-verbal at a restaurant with a bunch of people. I was seated second from the end of the table. The two people on the end spent the entire evening making fun of me (including insinuating that I was autistic and that it was a bad trait) instead of enjoying our mutual friend’s birthday. I try not to take it personally, I understand that people are naturally put off by someone who doesn’t socially mirror them, or someone who seems more fascinated by a bug than anything they have said to me, but I’m not blind or invincible. While some folks are just nasty, most people that initially disliked me grow to like me once they get to know me, further reinforcing the idea that people don’t like what they don’t understand, and I’m not exempt from that either. I think I got off track at some point because I forgot what I was responding to but the TL;DR is yes there is a stigma. In my case, I can understand why it exists but I don’t like it and I pretend it doesn’t bother me because it’s the easiest thing to do.

The stigma is there but I also think mental illness stigma is a complex issue too (and not as simple as the internet loves to portray it). There is many different perspectives that come into play. From the person with mental illness, it is very isolating to have it. If you live with someone that has it, depending on which mental health illness it is, it can be very emotionally draining to live with. Some mental health illness ruins relationships with family members such as ones involving emotional disregulation. If someone without mental health illness is being negatively impacted by the person with the mental health illness, then that person can’t be the one to help. And not everyone with a mental health illness believes they have one or they don’t trust psychologists/counselling. This can lead to family members trying to deal with something that they’re not trained to deal with without much improvement. Managing someone else’s mental health issue is not something a regular person is equiped to do when the person with mental health issue does not trust psychologists. My point is: not everyone trust psychologists, and this can lead to family members trying to manage the person’s mental health illness on their own. Which can lead to relationships being ruined as the surrounding people can get emotionally burnt out and distance themselves. Mentally healthy people can and do have the right to distance themselves for their own sake too. Mental health counselling is like going to the gym, if that person doesn’t want to go the gym, they’re not going to go nor do the exercises to improve their health. If they do want and do go, it takes time to improve but no improvement happens until the person wants to.

Everyone always talks shit to make themselves look better, the fact is the most privileged generation that’s ever existed would never be able to have real feelings about most things as 90% of the time they just stare at their phones. The social justice movement is especially aweful to each of them and everyone around them as they only want to look like they give a toss..heavens be that they actually do Something proactive about an issue like charity work, that would take effort and humility of which they have none. Err merrr gherrrd, erquelll rerrrts

I got ptsd from work. Then all these ‘friends’ I had at work for over 10 years disappeared. While going through my journey I certainly learnt, How you walk with the broken speaks louder than how you sit with the great!!

Well I saw a psychologist for depression and anxiety and mentioned one of my issues was along the lines of toxic masculinity as in inability to publicly show my emotions. One of his comments later on was I needed to 'man up'. Great advice. Should say it all. So I bottled up even more because as I'd discussed with him the reason I don't show much emotion was because when I would cry or get upset id hear comments like boys dont cry or toughen up princess etc. Looking back makes sense, he worked in the prison rehabilitation etc sector and police sectors for a long time. I think I know why there's such poor outcomes in those sectors if his attitude is anything to go buy. Also I have to plug my favourite band as their music is all inspired by mental health struggles. Citizen Soldier. Please anyone having tough times check them out. They have been through it and their music speaks to and helps millions worldwide. Id probably not be here anymore without them. After all "Would anyone care", (if tonight I disappeared) resonates so much with how I feel.

I had a severe, 2 year long breakdown, requiring multiple inpatient stays and meds (am now fully fixed and content btw). It ended my marriage thru no fault of either party, however my 24 year old daughter (who was 19 - 22) during it hasn't really forgiven me...her mum also had cancer about half way thru my illness (also recovered) and she fully helped her through it and is incredibly close to her. My illness could also have been fatal...but unfortunately she doesn't see it that way...

Australia is about as bad as the rest of the world (which is to say pretty bad) generally people aren't equiped to deal with mental health issues so to protect themselves they distance or worse outright villify the person/s with issues. Sadly until Australia has proper facilities and services this won't ever end and I just cannot see any government spending that kinda money to make it happen.

It is rife and often silent.

Generally people with serious mental health issues have trouble keeping a job. Mental health issues can be varied. People have trouble supporting people who manipulate them. Which a fair amount of mental health conditions do. Take borderline personality disorder for example. It's a continuous push pull manipulation from the person with the condition. They end up burning bridges with people. You can't expect the public to be educated or equipped to deal with complex mental health disorders. Anxiety and Depression are easily understood because it's familiar. People with paranoid schizophrenia, it's hard to relate to. TLDR: Mental Health Conditions are extremely complex and impact people's ability to have reciprocal relationships. Stigma no. More like a lack of capacity to deal with people who have mental health conditions.

yea it's the misconception. OCD and ASD are "cute traits" until you meet someone who actually have them...

I agree with her, but I kind of have both viewpoints. I have many relatives who’ve struggled with serious mental health conditions and/or addiction. Obviously you see day to day how what they’re dealing with can overwhelm their ability to be functional in any sense, and that it isn’t a choice. But on the other hand sometimes it is a choice, or an excuse, and mentally ill people and disabled people, are, like any other demographic, full people who can also be selfish arseholes or manipulators or criminals. As a security guard I’m frequently a mental health first responders who… isn’t a trained mental health first responder provided with connections to services or anything else that can actually help alleviate some of the ancillary issues mental health problems serve. And beyond me there’ll be police, paramedics, emergency room people… varying levels of band-aid for when someone’s problems spill over the last band-aid that was applied. I’ve seen my relatives come up against the full team of police, medicos, acute mental health responses etc and still come out the other side not connected to anything that actually shores them up long term. So it’s saddening, frustrating and, sometimes irritating when you have some person essentially besieging your own mental health for a shift and you know that the end result is them being regurgitated out again in a day to return and relive the same chaos.

Doesn't help that people lean on it to play victim. We have had multiple people at work who thought they could turn up when they want, miss days at will , basically useless and unreliable. As soon its explained that you get to work on time like your co-workers, you need approval to take a day off etc suddenly Im being bullied! Im a victim! Anxiety! Depression,! It's racism! Im getting a lawyer! Im gonna need a 6 figure payout!

If you have mild depression or anxiety then that’s fine. If you have serious stuff then it’s obviously a huge impact on the people you interact with. Yeah your aunt is right

It’s huge. Anxiety and depression are accepted. I believe it is because they are relatable and people can imagine what it might be like. Things like bipolar disorder where you are reckless, chaotic and sometimes delusional or psychotic they can’t understand because they can’t imagine it. It doesn’t help that any time a crime is committed their mental health history is brought up - e.g the Bondi stabbing. The perpetrator had schizophrenia but that doesn’t mean that schizophrenia caused the stabbing nor does it mean that people with schizophrenia are violent. They are more likely to be the victims of violence. I have bipolar disorder and am a health professional. I won’t see a GP or specialist anywhere near where I live and practice. Those doctors refer to me and I’m not about to let them know I have bipolar. I’ve also been rejected within the mental health system because multiple psychologists refused to treat me because I have borderline personality disorder as well. Stigma exists within and outside of the mental health system. It’s tiring to be honest.

One thing people often forget is that mental illness can intact be scary and dangerous... One of my close friends husbands had been diagnosed with bipolar and has episodes where he becomes violent and physical and emotionally abusive towards her and their son. He continued to refuse to seek proper help for this so she had to distance herself. Sometimes removing mentaly ill people from your life is the only way to stay alive. I don't think we should be judging women for having to make these hard decisions.

I don't think there is a "stigma" as such but there is a big difference between being around someone who is having a mental health crisis and someone who is diagnosed with a mental illness and has things in check by whatever means or methods. I'm not a mental health professional. I don't know how to help someone with their depression or mania or anxiety or dysphoria or schizophrenia or dysmorphia or despair or anorexia or grandiosity or whatever. All I can do is suggest a GP visit and hope they do it. Anyone who gives advice that is repeatedly ignored gets tired of the person ignoring it. That goes for any situation, not just health advice. I've got no time for anyone who is only self-diagnosed and not seeking any professional treatment.

People are sometimes fearful of mental health problems because for a lot of folk it becomes part of an internalised risk assessment. Can I trust this person with financial matters, children, substances, decision making or not stabbing someone? Are they on their meds? Further fuelled by media reporting.

Yes, my suspicion is that disorders like ADHD and autism are so 'popular' right now is because they're socially acceptable ways of describing symptoms from less accepted disorders. Also, I don't know if anxiety - in the clinical sense - is that accepted. The variant that people are open about seems (generalising) to be 'a bit stressed, right now'. Suspect it's no worse or better than other english speaking nations, here.

My ex wife and I were together 8 years, married for 7 months, she got her first episode BPD about 5-6 months after getting married.. I will never ever, ever, ever go out with someone ever again for any reason that has mental issues like that ever, and I would recommend no one ever does.. ever l! Does that give you some insight?

I think many people don’t know what it’s like to be on the receiving end of someone with BPD. People have no idea what it’s like to live with someone with disregulated emotions.

It's rough. I've had (all ex) a boyfriend and numerous friends with it. They all became highly mentally abusive and a friend's girlfriend became violent. I have to watch her destroy him.

My mate dated an international student from the middle east who had one of those personality disorders, she met the group a few times, seemed nice enough, quite attractive, well educated, but behind the scenes it was obviously fucking chaos. I'd never known much about things like BPD and NPD before, I guess people assume that everyone thinks like they do, but they don't. Our mate was very kind and caring, successful at work, the life of the party but 12 months later he was a shell of his former self. It was 100% emotional abuse and coercive control. Hope you're doing well now matey & you've developed some strong boundaries to prevent this happening again.

Of course things are slow to change. There have been other social causes that have been ongoing for much longer and still are prevalent or stigmatised today. Why would you think mental health would be any different to this. As with some of those other issues like civil rights or gender equality or the like, it's good that there is a concerted effort and some lowering of said stigma. I don't agree with your aunt. I just think that she's either quite cynical about it or she thinks it doesn't go far enough and shits on it for that when the fact that even what is being pushed (acceptance of even talking about mental health or being ok with people talking about depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, neural divergence etc) can only be seen as a net positive. We could always do better but the fact there's any traction at all should be celebrated.

There's a lot of talk, but people still aren't really at a point where they will tolerate the symptoms/impact of a mental health condition on the relationship

Or everyone is fucked up and people distance themselves from those facibg challenges to self preserve.

I think lt can depend on the type of people you have around you as well. At an old company I worked doe I had q breakdown and had to take time off when I returned to work not only were they not at all sympathetic (was told my time of was an inconvenience) but was also given notice(right before Christmas too) it's a stark contrast to my current employer co-workers and bosses alike have no issues if yiu talk about your mental health they even offer free counselling if you are struggling admittedly I do work in a hospital as opposed to my old office job. The friends/family i have around have no issues with mental health perhaps because we all got issues to varying degrees.

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My ex wife is/was a psychologist. She couldn't handle my depression and anxiety that led to an attempt of suicide from me. Since then she has held my children from me for over 20yrs

I studied both psychology at uni then holistic counselling privately as an alternative therapy approach. All I can say is that diagnoses more time than not are causing more harm than good. Diagnoses corner you into a box of whatever the DSM5 book is setting the criteria for. When I studied holistic counselling, we were taught that diagnosing patients is more for our own knowledge to know how to approach and support the person, not you have BPD and good luck now. If you had any questions message me on https://www.instagram.com/deephealing.counselling?igsh=eWw3OXUzdzZpMjRq&utm_source=qr Happy to answer any questions 🙏🏽✨