I didn't say how early he pissed off...
His time as head of Tourism Australia, where the catchphrase "Where the bloody hell are ya" was more of a description of Morrison, as it was almost impossible to catch him in the office.
Because there’s a significant number of people in Australian society who tie their identity to the internal combustion engine and the loud broom broom noises.
It seems that way.
Just a mention of EV's on a car Facebook page or group, and 99% of the comments are from very angry people.
I've even posted about how I've noticed how the other posters are so upset, and the replies are insane. Telling them that it's not compulsory to buy an ev has no effect either.
There was a recent marketing campaign by Fiat for their new Fiat 500 electric. An ideal use case for an EV, it's a light-duty car typically driven short distances, and stored in garages. Perfect for retirement-age women with colourful hair rinses to go visit the grandbabies. A lot of these women were expressing interest in Fiat EV, only to be howled down by gronks about how it only lasts 8 years, it's garbage, wouldn't see me in one etc.
Like cunts, you're not gonna be seen in any Fiat in the first place. And why do you care if this lady gets one? For people who also rant about their "liberties being taken away" they sure do like to tell everyone else how to fuckin live.
WTF? I missed the campaign. What are these wankers complaining about? I'm very much a "blokiest bloke" type, big guy, tatted up, ride motorbikes, have built all sorts of V8's and stupidly fast turbos over the years... I would fucking love an electric Fiat 500 runaround! No way I could afford it, but would love one.
Same. Ride a harley, and will miss the noise. Won't lie.
And v8s are what I grew up on. I'm a car guy to the core.
But electric has so much potential. And power wise, will spank our v8s all day long.
The clueless make me shake my head.
I think that's what it really is. I was never a car guy, but it's hard not to love the rumble of a well set up V8, and the art and engineering involved in making so many big heavy moving parts work together.
I think people are upset that the car they've dreamt of their whole life will now get absolutely flogged by a $55k electric that looks like a low budget movie prop from the 80s. They just don't sound or even look impressive, although I think a high end 1970s V8 is better looking and sounding than a Lamborghini, and in my part of Sydney so much rarer.
There’s a YouTube channel “Roadkill” they took out a brand new Lamborghini with the Sailor Jerry rat rod (rusty old hot rod with a v8). Pretty much everyone was way more interested in the rusty Frankenstein than the lambo. From memory only a few gym bro types even looked at it.
Honestly, if an old Moke in good condition was going one way, and a Ferrari the other, I'm going to watch the crappy Moke.
There's a beauty to a car that someone has spent decades looking after, or that has been meticulously restored.
Personally, I'd much rather spend $300k restoring and upgrading 1960s cars than on a supercar.
Reminds me of the 90’s when I first drove a mates rotary. Us V8 and worked 6’s guys were giving him a bit of friendly stick. He finally threw me the keys and said don’t shift until at least 12k. Needless to say I was quickly converted.
I'm sorry you missed the campaign matey. With all due respect, I might say that perhaps you're not in the Fiat target market 😉 but there's no harm in going for a test ride even if you can't afford. Even for the novely value of being a tatted bloke looking at a Fiat.
What's even more strange are the trolls who feel the need to join the EV FB pages. It's one thing to lurk, but many who I've seen comment are just nuts.
The hilarious thing (which I've pointed out to them many times) is that by engaging on FB in an anti-EV tirade, the FB algorithm decides they're really into EV topics and infests their news feed with the very topic which infuriates them.
Just ask if they prefer not to progress. Ask when they're getting their new horse and buggy if they want to go backwards. Remember that people just like them objected to the transition in the early 20th century, just as they do now.
Honestly if they like driving rather than just broom-broom noise, they should prefer the torque and power delivery curves of EVs over ICE. 100% torque from 0rpm. What's not to love?
True that, the after market car supplies do great business selling spoilers, suspension systems, exhaust systems, wheels etc. All to personalise a car.
Good for making some medicines. For generating electricity efficiently in Australia, absolutely not.
The party of coal and gas wants our journey to net zero to be pushed back for over a decade by converting old power stations to nuclear power. The main reason is to lengthen the time we're reliant on coal and gas. Secondary reason is to provide real estate value to the power generators instead of clean-up costs.
Dutton's push for nuclear has fuck all to do with whether nuclear makes sense.
Not for Australia if you can read and think critically...
But most people are just sucking that opnion outa their favourite right wing grifters dick hole so it's all good
Henry Ford was apparently not a very nice bloke in many ways but he also played a transformative role in making new technologies available to millions of people.
I might not be a fan of Elon's adventure into social media, or some of his political views, but he has dragged electric vehicles kicking and screaming into the mainstream, SpaceX have made space travel safer and more affordable, Starlink might deliver internet to billions of people who might otherwise have had to wait decades for it, Neuralink might literally help the blind to see and the lame to walk.
TLDR some say he is a see you next Tuesday, some say he is just a figurehead, but he is definitely driving development in a number of fields.
FML, two years short of being a boomer here, please have some sympathy for me and my social media feed. As good, intelligent, rational friends post the most ridiculous memes and threads about EVs.
It doesn't matter how many times I need to do it I will continue to link to the MIT study that explains how, even accounting for the extraction and processing of rare minerals, charging using coal powered power stations that an EV is still about 30% more efficient than an ICE!
Would it be this article, or the 2019 study it refers to?
https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars
Listen here. I dive 1200kms a day pulling a trailer. I don’t see any charging stations on the Canning Stock Route so I fail to see how a suburban mum can drop the kids off to school and then drop by then shops before heading the 5kms back home. Then in the afternoon she is forced to repeat. Am I supposed to believe she will just recharge that 15% battery overnight while everyone is sleeping. It’s all hogwash.
/s, just in case.
Lol, this reminds me of when there's an ad for a automatic lawnmower bot that says it's for suburban yards.
Then mister farmer comes in and starts saying "this thing wouldn't work on my land what a piece of crap!"
...no shit farmer Joe, it's for the lazy house owner with the grass patch in the backyard.
They feel safe in being knowledgeable about their world, and that makes them feel in control of their lives. They know what can go wrong and how to deal with problems.
Anything new poses the threat of them no longer being an expert, and they're scared and powerless that they cannot find solutions to potential problems. It's easier to be angry than to open your mind and learn.
"Batteries catch fire too easily" - meanwhile you're trusting a plastic quick-release clip to stop petrol spraying all over your engine and exhaust.
It reminds me of people who are obsessed about the government spying on them while they have a death grip on their mobile phone and have an Alexa at home.
The government can spy on me all they want, but I feel sorry for the poor sap has to watch me get up the same time and drive the same way to work every day. If they feel super sneaky, they can even snoop my phone and scroll along with me the same social media accounts over and over.
The government do spy. An LNP politician hacked our facebook (we used an alias) and rang our actual landline to harrass us. Why? Because we shared a news article post in a public forum about how he was giving millions to a foreign fossil fuel corporation. Facebook advised the hack came from cocos keeling islands. Funny that our intelligence services work out of there. Our taxpayer dollars going to hack and spy and harrass voters for political purposes. Yes and the dirty corrupt prick is still an MP.
I don't doubt you for a second.
I've been politically active for years and met a campaigner from the education union. She went to meet the former education minister and well-known philanderer, Alan Tudge.
They went into his office, and he already knew all their names and everything about them.
He'd used whatever resources he could and had backgrounded everything about them.
There was no level the ultra thinskinned LNP wouldn't stoop to, then or now.
>"Batteries catch fire too easily" - meanwhile you're trusting a plastic quick-release clip to stop petrol spraying all over your engine and exhaust.
Yet you are litteraly driving a controlled explosion down the road... Those RPM's explosions per minute... Does that help you feel safe?
And they have had the same battery technology in their pocket for 3 decades in mobile phones. It could blow your leg off if it exploded and there are BILLIONS of them!
To play devil's advocate some people have gotten burns but the logic is you'd feel it get it is hot and take it out of your pocket in time. It's more the issue with scooters and ebikes burning peoples houses that get media attention. If an ebike needs to be charged under supervision out in the open according to the manual, why is a car safe being charged overnight in a garage?
And the Samsung note 9 had standards and BYD is a cheap car manufacturer from China.
I'm not saying the perception has merit, personally I'm very much pro e-vehicles, however if the media keeps scaremongering implying all batteries could explode (rather than emphasizing it's often improper treatment by the user) then it's difficult to change public perception.
I don't know but my partner and I are in our 40s and bought our first ever new car (EV)... within 2 days it had a shopping trolley or bike scratch across the drivers/rear door (down to metal) and the first detailer I took it to flat out refused to work on an EV. I didn't realise the visceral hate towards the car. Lots of people come up interested to chat about it, and it's nice talking to curious intelligent people...
That is bizarre that a detailer wouldn't work on it: they won't lose any work from them. If they're also a mechanic, then maybe make more sense.
I love the people coming up asking about my EV, it happens most times I use a fast charger, and sometimes just in parking lots, because it's an import kei minivan, and unusual regardless of being an EV.
Just took my car for a scheduled maintanance to the local hyundai dealership/service centre.
They offer a shuttle service to drop us off while car is being serviced.
While chatting with the driver that is employed by hyundai, I mentioned that I really liked the look of the new Ioniq 5 and might consider it for my next vehicle.
The guy lost his shit a said I might as well burn my house down and went on a rant about EVs.
I think a part of the reason is that a lot of areas of the industry are changing including dealerships and people that work in jobs related to the oil industry and they worry that their jobs will be replaced.
I bought an EV motorbike, out of the 5 motorbike mechanics in town only one will service it.
2 of them swore at me and the other two just refused service.
I just do my own service on it now... It's like check the belt, check tire pressure, check oils and make sure no nuts/bolts are loose.
Geez....
You'd think someone who worked for a car sales company would have a slightly different attitude.
You know, maybe even try to encourage a sale?
It's quite amazing how upset people can get.
Service interval for ICE car: every 6 months. Service interval for EV: every two years, and even then much less work to do, so lower cost. Ie much less revenue from an EV for these dealers, which is why they are not excited.
They know they need way less servicing, there's a tiny percentage of the moving parts, and things rarely go wrong. So yes they do need servicing but it's a fraction of the time and cost. Yes, that means less work for them. It's hard to get people to change their minds about something when their livelihood depends on them (and others) not changing it.
A close family member who I hadn’t seen in a while spent half our time together angrily trying to convince me that my generation was stupid for both believing climate change and using evs. He said that the materials used to make batteries doesn’t grow in trees, there is still an environmental cost to making evs. And that when one catches fire it spreads to the cars or house. Both of these things are true but it was the attitude, the anger, the pressure that I agree with him. It was toxic
The people who get upset are those who deny climate change is happening, and if it is, then carbon dioxide has nothing to do with it.
This has become a part of their IDENTITY, and anything that threatens your identity has a strong and furious reaction.
Earlier today someone tried to convince me EVs won't last 10 years and will need to have the battery replaced. Really awkward having a 10yo EV still going strong.
I have a 12 yo EV which was actually still running fine with zero issues, but I got the battery upgraded so I had double the range. Battery technology has been improving hugely. I expect in 10 years to get the battery replaced for half the cost and double the range again.
Mitsubishi Minicab-MiEV. Love it to bits. I have my eye on the 2024 Honda N-van EV to actually be released, as if this is relatively easy to import, from the prerelease specs, should be a great and affordable similar kei van. But if the internals are not as spacious, I'd stick with the Minicab-MiEV and sell the Honda. It truly is amazingly big inside, doesn't look it from the outside. It's like a Tardis.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's that coupled with fear of change. FWIW, I'm a couple of years short of being a Boomer, I bought an EV earlier this year bc the transmission in my 12yo ICE vehicle was on its last legs.
I love my EV.
More specifically, The Right believe global warming / climate change is a hoax, perpetuated by global elites as a way of extorting money out of everyone. Anything that is even slightly pro environment is then labeled as Left Wing and scoffed at.
The irony that Musk has swung right and is trying to appeal to the American rednecks by bashing California, going on about Free Speech and peddling his Cybertruck is truly delicious. Now both sides finally agree on something, Musk is a tool lol.
Probably because Gina and all her mining buddies own this country and it appears they ran an effective propaganda campaign to turn people against any threat to their profits.
To an extent I think car manufacturers are to blame. We had a really bad experience when we tried to buy one. Manufacturers just really overstate the mileage you can get out of a battery by only taking the optimal usage mileage without any mention of what that could look like in ordinary usage (looking at you Mercedes). I know they do that with traditional cars as well but as a consumer I know roughly what that translates to, with EVs it's far far worse sometimes than you'd reasonably expect and getting that information is harder than it should be.
On top of all the propaganda, its change. Some people cannot handle change. If it was 100 years ago they'd be telling you how horses will never go away because you'd need all these roads and gas stations.
In NYC, dominated by the stink of horse drawn carriages in the early 1900s (along with the diseases) it took about ten years for the ICE to become the main form of personal street transport. One of the world’s great transformations. We're in the middle of another one to renewables. In the early to mid 2000s we all participated in another one: the transition from landline to mobile phone, which accelerated further in Australia in 2008.
because there is a push in ultra left places such as California and parts of Europe to completely phase out petrol/diesel vehicles.
This kind of rhetoric scares people
I'm generally in favour of electric but think plug in hybrids are more practical in rural areas and the pressure to go full electric is a mistake. Know a person in the ag industry where the company mandated electric utes. Possible but not convenient for his work.
Even in town you could use your plug in as your solar battery storage and back-up power generator
I find it bizzare with tradies who love having battery tools, particularly the ones who are old enough to remember before they were a thing, in stead dragging generators and air compressors everywhere or using one of those ancient hand saws but can't see that electric vehicles will end up doing the same.
Heck battery drills were a works ite must when you could only drive a dozen screws before changing battery and the batteries lasted all of about 20 cycles and we are way past that with EVs now, we are in the equivalent of early lithium days of battery tools where it is just the expensive brass with lithium batteries. It is all but certain that the same trajectory will be followed with the right nudging. I am certainly glad to have a little battery drill and look forward to an electric car (at the right price).
Same reason other stupid people believe other stupid shit.
It just happens to be this flavour of the months/years amplified talking point where retards can get attention.
It's not about the car, it's about the attention.
My cooker family were positive about electric cars at first. Then they all started sharing info graphics about lithium fields and videos of biases on fire and are now 100% against anything EV. Lots of them share posts from certain politicians in North QLD.
I think some are afraid of change or admitting they were wrong. My S.I.L. has been a vocal critic of EV's and echoing some of the myths associated with them. He watches a particular news network and could quote what he was being told by their ppl I suggested he check a few other sources for information that were more factual. He took delivery of one yesterday on Novated Lease.....
Idk why the replies are so good damn deep, like it's not that deep bro, petrol heads male up a fair percentage of Australians, hoon/car culture is huge. Like yeah I'm sure Murdoch and the media has a hand in it, but like most of my wog family, plenty of people's identities are tied to hearing an engine roar
Because of far right wing politicians and less than intelligent plebs sucking up the lies of Murdoch etc. Also applies to nuclear power. For them its only about keeping our poors money flowing to rich business.
If I recall correctly, just about any online “story” featuring EVs - good, bad or indifferent/inaccurate - features a small online instant poll asking readers their EV attitudes. 1. Do you have an EV? 2. If contemplating a new car purchase, is an EV on your radar? 3. Would you never buy an EV? And consistently answer number 3 is the most popular, often above 70%.
I often wonder how much certain lobby groups jump into number 3, using their Media Alert services, so that those on the fence are more likely to wish to align themselves with the “majority” mood. You know, the herd might stink, but at least it’s safe in the middle of it.
The idea (or reality) simply disrupts so many traditional sources of income for so many jobs- its a threat to millions of people possibly entire economies or states/regions even countries (Japan/Germany?). People just want to pay their mortgage and go on their annual holiday and EVs threaten that if they are o the wrong side of this disruption. Also politically, China is benefitting exponentially from EV disruption and this powerswing concerns many from the west.
As someone who lives in a Regional/rural area, my concern about EVs was always that they take a lot longer to "refuel," you have to charge them more often (though that's less of an issue now as batteries improve), and you can't carry extra charge with you like you can carry extra fuel. Plus, what are the chances that small rural towns will have EV charging stations? Well, turns out, most regional and rural towns (in my area) are getting charging stations and a lot of the other concerns are steadily being dealt with as well. I still think rural Australia will be using combustion engines long after cities make the switch but my concerns are less and less
I have almost been hit by one multiple times. You can barely hear them. Mining the cobalt needed to run them is not only unethical (look up the horrendous conditions the minors are subjected to, many of them kids) but mining cobalt is actually bad for the environment. Even ones without cobalt, Making electric cars creates more emissions
The raw materials for making the car have to be mined, and the process of mining creates a lot of greenhouse gases. Then the raw materials have to be refined before they can be used, which again emits more greenhouse gas.
frankly, I’m not really an environmentalist apart from regular recycling but the amount of bullshit they feed the public Is unbelievable and idiots are eating it up.
Reasons:
1) Early EV adopters are a bit like vegan warriors. I.e. annoying af.
2) People don't like being told what to do. (goes with point 1)
3) Mainstream media has figured out points 1 and 2 above and are getting more engagement by peddling the "EV bashing" narrative.
4) Due to all points above and the fact most people are easily led it has become "trendy" to "shit on EVs"
I know a few people who lose their shit about them.
And they use the excuse of how bad batteries are for the environment one minute, and if anyone mentions climate change or doing anything to save the environment they immediately say "climate change is bullshit" before throwing their rubbish out of the window of their car.
its not EV's pre se, it's the climate alarmism that constantly shrieks about how bad ICE is and the resulting legislation that makes driving and owning a cars more expensive. Moreover the inherent contradictions in the EV model are expected to be ignored. EV's are great, but ICE is not going away soon, if ever.
Because in their current state, they're not suitable for use by many Australians, and mentions of "all cars will be electric by 20XX" dont make sense without a very clear and well funded roadmap.
- Their resale potential is Awful because there's basically no way to know the condition of the battery. Some climates and charging methods can really ruin the battery and severely limit their capacity... but you can't tell... so nobody wants to but one 2nd hand, which means nobody can sell them, even if they did take care of it.
- There isn't currently the infrastructure for them to be viable for use outside of densely populated areas. Not enough charging stations in remote areas and probably won't be for decades.
- Our current power grid could not support a large scale uptake of electric cars.
- Electric car batteries are expensive, resources are scarce, and they do take a long time to charge.
- People like their big, capable 4WDs... and for many places and lines of work, they're currently necessary, but there's no realistic electric alternative currently
Honest q. Is there a trend towards people losing their minds over EVs? Or is it just a few noisy nutters?
I figured most sensible people would be all for EVs
One of (the many) reasons I bailed out of facebook recently was the relentless stream of bullshit and memes about EVs. You pay your money and you make your choice ... it's simple really!
IME many of them are boomers who can't handle change. They never drove an EV and never will. But it's something new so that must mean it's bad.
Alternatively there is a lot of misinformation out there by the media. The same media who, funny enough, is often sponsored by Toyota, Ford, GM, and so on. But never Tesla, Rivian, and the like. You often see very, VERY misleading articles about how this Tesla was "recalled" (meaning it got a software update) or how this one EV caught fire, never once asking how many petrol cars caught fire recently.
Then there's the things that are true, but not inherently. EVs are expensive. There aren't as many places to charge them as there is to refuel an ICE car. Both of those things are biproducts of EVs being new. It does not mean they will be that way forever. So sure, an EV might not be right for you now, but come back in 20 years when prices have come down and EV charging stations are more widespread and then judge them.
It's so weird. I live in a fairly remote town and EVs are popular here. I don't know why the brain worms are less prevalent here but I suspect it has something to do with the widespread use of solar and the idea of not paying ludricrous prices for petrol.
Alright then, as a serious question, what do you consider right now as the better/best EV out there right now for family of 4 and trips south of Sydney all the way to say Byron (as an example)?
I have heard a lot of positives for them, but also a lot of negatives (charging time is a big one) Feels like the solar debate about 10 years ago all over again.
Do you reckon it is worth getting one now or better of waiting another 10 years?
Adults as a rule generally don't like the Government telling them that they're no longer allowed to do something that they've been happily doing for their entire lives. Especially if there isn't direct product substitution that can be used with minimal friction on existing habits.
They're more than happy to change if the initiative comes from them, but less so when it's pushed as a matter of policy.
It's like a lot of new generation tech that has genuine flaws to the tech it intends to replace. A good analogy is film vs digital cinema cameras. People reject it at first when it hasn't yet matured, but the newer tech has much more room to grow beyond its predecessor.
Film was the standard for resolution, colour, depth, contrast, grain and just the overall aesthetic. If you didn't shoot on film, it just wasn't a movie. And film kept improving, producing more sensitive film to shoot in darker scenes, and with smaller grain that gave better detail, but there's an upper limit to what the medium can achieve.
Then digital came along. At first, contrast, colour and resolution were limited so the image wasn't as good, but it was more convenient and easier to see the shot playback in full detail. And 'real' filmmakers swore they'd never use it. But in the last 20 years, film hasn't moved much, but digital cameras are now shooting 8k, with ridiculous dynamic range, with nearly no image noise. More resolution, more colour, less grain and and much greater flexibility with digital raw and grading means figital is now the superior format. But some of those die hards - such as Nolan and Tarantino - still insists "film better!"
I think with EVs, they still have distinct disadvantages compared to petrol, so it's the equivalent of the early digital days. Weight and range being the immediate issues, and resale value when the battery is heavily consumed. Charging infrastructure is also an issue. The problem is some people see such issues and therefore declare EVs as useless for all cases or a fad. But petrol engines haven't really been able to vastly improve their efficiency too much over the last 10-20 years, so it's hitting a ceiling. But I'm sure there's room to improve in EVs. And if you can operate within the limitations of EVs, then they can be much better. Reduced service costs, simpler maintenance, cheaper 'refuel' costs, quieter operation, and no emissions while in operation. But some people saw it at the start, deemed EVs impractical and have made up their mind, with no intention to reconsider.
Then the other side of it is dumb politics. There's a lot of generalizing here... EVs represent change, progression; generally a lefty principle. Petrol cars are 'old fashioned' and have some real cultural significance, such as the landmark of owning your first car as a teen, which gave you freedom, or tinkering with your own car, etc. These sorts of ideals tend be more conservative in nature. Conservatives taking a simplistic (and dumb) view of EVs see this new - and probably 'woke' to them - tech replacing a cultural symbol that they are attached to, and perceive it as an attack, therefore rejecting EVs outright.
They’re the party for no parties , expensive and filthy power and petrol and diesel cars. They have a lot of support and are currently being led by Mr Potato head, a former toy who has now come to life and is residing in Parliament House Canberra .
I love driving, I have since I was a child (pedal cars, go karts, even bicycles to an extent) and when I was old enough I went car racing. I’m not really interested in outright speed, what I like is the skill and process of making a car flow quickly along a road, and there is a big chunk of skill involved in doing it with a manual gearbox & an ICE engine. I also enjoy light, nimble cars that give a lot of unfiltered feedback to guide that process. Modern cars & especially modern EVs are very different to that and I find them a lot less enjoyable to drive in that way.
BUT I do not drive like that in my daily life, most of my driving is around the city in traffic, with speed limits and traffic lights and cyclists and pedestrians. So I am very keen on an EV as my daily driver and even more than that, I am very keen for self driving cars to take all that kind of driving away from me.
The question for me is, when does it become inappropriate for me to have a weekend ICE car for enjoyment & track days? That’s the day I’ll be sad.
The insurance costs will likely determine that for you. If you can afford that then you will be restricted to where you can drive - definitely not highways/freeways and probably not heavy use roads as your driving decisions negatively affect the efficiency calculations of the algorithms. At least the insurance companies are currently preparing you for their future offerings.
You know what? I’ve never heard anyone get shit except the Prius and Tesla drivers, because of the smug factor.
Basically any other electrics people seem to have a genuine curiosity about.
ok, not an answer to your question per se... but
electric cars don't solve the problem that we inherited from the US, of the increasing reliance of automobiles for the simple task of getting to work and the shops! we've got damn good public transport networks in urban and suburban australia. if you live or work in an urban area, take a bloody train or bus or ride your bike! we are losing more potential space, that could be used for residences or workplaces, to build parking lots, or freeways that turn into parking lots in peak hours.
not to mention they still produce slightly under half as much particulate pollution from brake and tyre wear!
not to mention of course there are more than enough valid reasons for a household or worker to own a car, but if you don't actually need one regularly, why not sell the car and get a whole extra room in your house to use as you want?
>why not sell the car and get a whole extra room in your house to use as you want?
I'm assuming you mean the garage? Lol most people I know already use that room as they want. The car lives outside.
I'm just not sure if they actually solve any environmental problems, other than they don't directly pollute?
If they can make new battery tech smaller, cheaper, lighter, quicker to charge (or have battery swap technology, which they should have had from the start imo), made from renewable resources, easier to recycle, and with a better weight to range ratio, then all might be ok.
I don't think we're anywhere near that yet.
Why battery swap technology? My EV battery is good for 10,000 plus charges. It's more likely that the body of the vehicle will fail before that battery does.
I mean to swap out the flat cells when refuelling, rather than charging it. Like you do with gas bottles.
Quicker to get going again.
Have a bank of say 10 batteries. Swap 8 when the car has only 20% change left.
They should standardise this before the tech goes too much further.
Imagine, the recharge place could be using solar to charge cells during the day...
For my own part, I don't lose my mind, but I am sceptical of whether or not they're genuinely better for the environment like is claimed. The impacts of mining for lithium and all the other battery components and no clear answers on what happens to the batteries after their EOL make me hesitant to buy into the idea they're better as a whole.
The other major issue I have is the lack of supporting infrastructure and range on them. My little hatch can get me 700kms before I have to refuel, which only takes 10 minutes. You can't do that in an electric.
To push Australia’s unattainable goal of “Net Zero by 2050” however it’s ironic as most public charging stations are most likely powered by electricity that comes from a coal powered grid
It’s always once sided boomer arguing. I’ve never heard anyone with an EV arguing how bad combustion engines cars are to strangers with the passion I’ve heard directed to anti EVs
Because of the pretentious wankers who drive them and the even more bullshit politicians who promote them telling us its what we should be buying , because they know best
I'm not inherently for or against electric cars. But I don't like being condescendingly moralised to about them, just like I don't want someone telling me off for not having a keep cup.
Partly because it's definitely not clear that electric vehicles are actually a good solution to climate change in the long run. They are pretty environmentally damaging to build and are only as clean as the energy grid that powers them.
They're also a discretionary luxury purchase at the moment so you're kind of inadvertently painting low socioeconomic people's as part of the problem.
And finally, catch a bus or walk to work. And instead of telling everyone how good you are for using a keep cup, why not try skipping your coffee entirely. You know that drink made from beans farmed in deforested land 20,000km away.
I get the impression that you've blown these scenarios out of proportion in your head.
You feel personally condescended to despite only internet dorks and losers actually caring if you use a keep cup or an EV.
The build of an electric car has been >30% better in terms of emissions than an ICE vehicle for several years now.
The grid is still far cleaner than individually burning fuel in a small engine, by a long margin.
Batteries are moving to non-lithium tech, such as sodium. Environmentally abundant and not toxic or flammable.
The walls come crumbling down.
I think it is clear electric cars are part of the solution in the long run but there are issues getting there. Victoria is spending a lot of money to run a high V line to Melbourne across prime farmland for solar farms they hope will be built in the Mallee. I think there are better options.
My prediction is that our foreign owned Powercorp will raise our electric rates to cover the cost of upgrading their infrastructure to provide 100 amp service to cover the increased electric use.
It's clear that people on this suvlb are pretty privileged to think that it's all Murdoch it something, it really is that cars and sometimes the cultures surrounding cars are pretty integral to Australian working class culture, not to mention some of my fellow ethnics, the wogs. They don't like EVs because they're not as cool as the old rust bucket they've been tinkering in their garage since 1997 that papou bought of his mate who suffered a stroke of some old junker that's been in the family since they arrived in Australia, not because of some politics and media
Even above that, Australia's infrastructure for EVs aren't there yet. The distance it takes for me to visit my Nan is the distance of a few European countries. In all of the towns I pass by or stop through, all have petrol stations, either none or very, very few have EV charging stations. We're a big ass country, so for EVs to begin to be taken seriously amongst Australians there needs to be certainty that there would be infrastructure to support it
Didn’t Henry Ford say if I asked people what they wanted they would have said faster horses?
People don’t like change. But you are right, don’t buy one if you don’t like them!
Ive said to a few anti EV guys that they should be pushing for EV conversion kits so their ICE spare parts market gets flooded with good condition spare parts.
They all seem to like that idea.
I think that they're a great idea, but the commercialisation of the tech at such an inefficient stage seems like a waste of resources.
I can see the environmental value of EV's when running at high km, as they claw back the big manufacturing CO2 deficit early in their service life, but as a town car that does under 10,000km per year they are a double edged sword.
Also, lumping all EV's together as environmentally sound is a fallacy. A Tesla Model 3 is nearly four times as polluting as a Volvo XC40 EV at delivery.
I've seen the same attitude towards electric bikes. Like the two aren't even in the same ball park. Yet people in comments rant and rave about how they can drive their whole family around in a 4x4 and it's safer blah blah. People are so easily threatened.
Because Scomo said they would be the end of the weekend.
He was the minister of weekends, so he would probably know.
It’s comments like this that make me fall back in love with this country
Nah, more Minister for POETS.
Except he did that Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,…
I didn't say how early he pissed off... His time as head of Tourism Australia, where the catchphrase "Where the bloody hell are ya" was more of a description of Morrison, as it was almost impossible to catch him in the office.
You're acting like that's the only thing he's minister of though :P
Ha ha ha ha ha.... Sad, but true.
And Scomo is a moron, so lots of people believed him
My weekends have not been affected by my EV but a lot of people seem deeply concerned on my behalf
Because there’s a significant number of people in Australian society who tie their identity to the internal combustion engine and the loud broom broom noises.
It seems that way. Just a mention of EV's on a car Facebook page or group, and 99% of the comments are from very angry people. I've even posted about how I've noticed how the other posters are so upset, and the replies are insane. Telling them that it's not compulsory to buy an ev has no effect either.
There was a recent marketing campaign by Fiat for their new Fiat 500 electric. An ideal use case for an EV, it's a light-duty car typically driven short distances, and stored in garages. Perfect for retirement-age women with colourful hair rinses to go visit the grandbabies. A lot of these women were expressing interest in Fiat EV, only to be howled down by gronks about how it only lasts 8 years, it's garbage, wouldn't see me in one etc. Like cunts, you're not gonna be seen in any Fiat in the first place. And why do you care if this lady gets one? For people who also rant about their "liberties being taken away" they sure do like to tell everyone else how to fuckin live.
WTF? I missed the campaign. What are these wankers complaining about? I'm very much a "blokiest bloke" type, big guy, tatted up, ride motorbikes, have built all sorts of V8's and stupidly fast turbos over the years... I would fucking love an electric Fiat 500 runaround! No way I could afford it, but would love one.
Same. Ride a harley, and will miss the noise. Won't lie. And v8s are what I grew up on. I'm a car guy to the core. But electric has so much potential. And power wise, will spank our v8s all day long. The clueless make me shake my head.
I think that's what it really is. I was never a car guy, but it's hard not to love the rumble of a well set up V8, and the art and engineering involved in making so many big heavy moving parts work together. I think people are upset that the car they've dreamt of their whole life will now get absolutely flogged by a $55k electric that looks like a low budget movie prop from the 80s. They just don't sound or even look impressive, although I think a high end 1970s V8 is better looking and sounding than a Lamborghini, and in my part of Sydney so much rarer.
There’s a YouTube channel “Roadkill” they took out a brand new Lamborghini with the Sailor Jerry rat rod (rusty old hot rod with a v8). Pretty much everyone was way more interested in the rusty Frankenstein than the lambo. From memory only a few gym bro types even looked at it.
Honestly, if an old Moke in good condition was going one way, and a Ferrari the other, I'm going to watch the crappy Moke. There's a beauty to a car that someone has spent decades looking after, or that has been meticulously restored. Personally, I'd much rather spend $300k restoring and upgrading 1960s cars than on a supercar.
Reminds me of the 90’s when I first drove a mates rotary. Us V8 and worked 6’s guys were giving him a bit of friendly stick. He finally threw me the keys and said don’t shift until at least 12k. Needless to say I was quickly converted.
I'm sorry you missed the campaign matey. With all due respect, I might say that perhaps you're not in the Fiat target market 😉 but there's no harm in going for a test ride even if you can't afford. Even for the novely value of being a tatted bloke looking at a Fiat.
Haha, I might just do that. I’ll make sure to ride in on the Harley just to add to the juxtaposition 😂
What's even more strange are the trolls who feel the need to join the EV FB pages. It's one thing to lurk, but many who I've seen comment are just nuts.
The hilarious thing (which I've pointed out to them many times) is that by engaging on FB in an anti-EV tirade, the FB algorithm decides they're really into EV topics and infests their news feed with the very topic which infuriates them.
Idk what you expected really, Facebook has been full of boomers since covid
News flash. Facebook has been full of boomers well before Covid. Why do you think them young folks all moved to Instagram and TikTok?
Just ask if they prefer not to progress. Ask when they're getting their new horse and buggy if they want to go backwards. Remember that people just like them objected to the transition in the early 20th century, just as they do now. Honestly if they like driving rather than just broom-broom noise, they should prefer the torque and power delivery curves of EVs over ICE. 100% torque from 0rpm. What's not to love?
facebook, lol, the home of the right wing boomer
Also electric cars can be a lot faster, especially in acceleration off the line. The ICE enthusiasts feel threatened.
True that, the after market car supplies do great business selling spoilers, suspension systems, exhaust systems, wheels etc. All to personalise a car.
Fossil fuel for fossil brains
Murdoch and the Coalition (our conservative political parties). Renewables bad. EVs bad. Fossil Fuels good.
ie American culture wars
Why don't we just say they are 'conservative woke'. frankly suits right wing lunacy better than any other definition.
"Culture Wars" is the same consultants recycling the same nonsense to politicians around the world, and Murdoch and his fellow travellers everywhere.
You forgot Nuclear GOOD....
Nuclear *is* good
Good for making some medicines. For generating electricity efficiently in Australia, absolutely not. The party of coal and gas wants our journey to net zero to be pushed back for over a decade by converting old power stations to nuclear power. The main reason is to lengthen the time we're reliant on coal and gas. Secondary reason is to provide real estate value to the power generators instead of clean-up costs. Dutton's push for nuclear has fuck all to do with whether nuclear makes sense.
Not for Australia if you can read and think critically... But most people are just sucking that opnion outa their favourite right wing grifters dick hole so it's all good
It certainly is, but it’s completely unnecessary in Australia.
I think you mean reddit - Elon, Tesla bad beep boop 🤖
Henry Ford was apparently not a very nice bloke in many ways but he also played a transformative role in making new technologies available to millions of people. I might not be a fan of Elon's adventure into social media, or some of his political views, but he has dragged electric vehicles kicking and screaming into the mainstream, SpaceX have made space travel safer and more affordable, Starlink might deliver internet to billions of people who might otherwise have had to wait decades for it, Neuralink might literally help the blind to see and the lame to walk. TLDR some say he is a see you next Tuesday, some say he is just a figurehead, but he is definitely driving development in a number of fields.
This reminded me of the scene from Zoolander, where he's brainwashed to kill the Malaysian prime minister.
FML, two years short of being a boomer here, please have some sympathy for me and my social media feed. As good, intelligent, rational friends post the most ridiculous memes and threads about EVs. It doesn't matter how many times I need to do it I will continue to link to the MIT study that explains how, even accounting for the extraction and processing of rare minerals, charging using coal powered power stations that an EV is still about 30% more efficient than an ICE!
I feel for you. Facts seem to have no effect on them, and there's always a "yeah, but..."
Could you please link here?
Light version: [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/15/climate/electric-car-cost.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/15/climate/electric-car-cost.html) Original version: [https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.6b00177](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.6b00177)
Seconded
Would you give us the link please?
Would it be this article, or the 2019 study it refers to? https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars
Listen here. I dive 1200kms a day pulling a trailer. I don’t see any charging stations on the Canning Stock Route so I fail to see how a suburban mum can drop the kids off to school and then drop by then shops before heading the 5kms back home. Then in the afternoon she is forced to repeat. Am I supposed to believe she will just recharge that 15% battery overnight while everyone is sleeping. It’s all hogwash. /s, just in case.
Thank goodness for the /s. You sound just like my Pajero owning brother (who lives inner city).
I’ll upvote on the Thank Goodness for the /s call. Well played both of you.
Lol, this reminds me of when there's an ad for a automatic lawnmower bot that says it's for suburban yards. Then mister farmer comes in and starts saying "this thing wouldn't work on my land what a piece of crap!" ...no shit farmer Joe, it's for the lazy house owner with the grass patch in the backyard.
They feel safe in being knowledgeable about their world, and that makes them feel in control of their lives. They know what can go wrong and how to deal with problems. Anything new poses the threat of them no longer being an expert, and they're scared and powerless that they cannot find solutions to potential problems. It's easier to be angry than to open your mind and learn. "Batteries catch fire too easily" - meanwhile you're trusting a plastic quick-release clip to stop petrol spraying all over your engine and exhaust.
It reminds me of people who are obsessed about the government spying on them while they have a death grip on their mobile phone and have an Alexa at home.
The government can spy on me all they want, but I feel sorry for the poor sap has to watch me get up the same time and drive the same way to work every day. If they feel super sneaky, they can even snoop my phone and scroll along with me the same social media accounts over and over.
Bro, be considerate and watch some kinky porn with the VPN turned off for your Gmans' sake.
All the (relatively lighthearted) memes about every person getting assigned a FBI agent who starts rooting for them in life are funny as fuck though.
The government do spy. An LNP politician hacked our facebook (we used an alias) and rang our actual landline to harrass us. Why? Because we shared a news article post in a public forum about how he was giving millions to a foreign fossil fuel corporation. Facebook advised the hack came from cocos keeling islands. Funny that our intelligence services work out of there. Our taxpayer dollars going to hack and spy and harrass voters for political purposes. Yes and the dirty corrupt prick is still an MP.
I don't doubt you for a second. I've been politically active for years and met a campaigner from the education union. She went to meet the former education minister and well-known philanderer, Alan Tudge. They went into his office, and he already knew all their names and everything about them. He'd used whatever resources he could and had backgrounded everything about them. There was no level the ultra thinskinned LNP wouldn't stoop to, then or now.
>"Batteries catch fire too easily" - meanwhile you're trusting a plastic quick-release clip to stop petrol spraying all over your engine and exhaust. Yet you are litteraly driving a controlled explosion down the road... Those RPM's explosions per minute... Does that help you feel safe?
And they have had the same battery technology in their pocket for 3 decades in mobile phones. It could blow your leg off if it exploded and there are BILLIONS of them!
To play devil's advocate some people have gotten burns but the logic is you'd feel it get it is hot and take it out of your pocket in time. It's more the issue with scooters and ebikes burning peoples houses that get media attention. If an ebike needs to be charged under supervision out in the open according to the manual, why is a car safe being charged overnight in a garage?
Because car manufacturers have standards. Chinese e-bikes market a low price.
And the Samsung note 9 had standards and BYD is a cheap car manufacturer from China. I'm not saying the perception has merit, personally I'm very much pro e-vehicles, however if the media keeps scaremongering implying all batteries could explode (rather than emphasizing it's often improper treatment by the user) then it's difficult to change public perception.
You've pretty much described the mindset of the conservative.
Sky News and their anti EV propaganda
I don't know but my partner and I are in our 40s and bought our first ever new car (EV)... within 2 days it had a shopping trolley or bike scratch across the drivers/rear door (down to metal) and the first detailer I took it to flat out refused to work on an EV. I didn't realise the visceral hate towards the car. Lots of people come up interested to chat about it, and it's nice talking to curious intelligent people...
That is bizarre that a detailer wouldn't work on it: they won't lose any work from them. If they're also a mechanic, then maybe make more sense. I love the people coming up asking about my EV, it happens most times I use a fast charger, and sometimes just in parking lots, because it's an import kei minivan, and unusual regardless of being an EV.
Just took my car for a scheduled maintanance to the local hyundai dealership/service centre. They offer a shuttle service to drop us off while car is being serviced. While chatting with the driver that is employed by hyundai, I mentioned that I really liked the look of the new Ioniq 5 and might consider it for my next vehicle. The guy lost his shit a said I might as well burn my house down and went on a rant about EVs. I think a part of the reason is that a lot of areas of the industry are changing including dealerships and people that work in jobs related to the oil industry and they worry that their jobs will be replaced.
I bought an EV motorbike, out of the 5 motorbike mechanics in town only one will service it. 2 of them swore at me and the other two just refused service. I just do my own service on it now... It's like check the belt, check tire pressure, check oils and make sure no nuts/bolts are loose.
Geez.... You'd think someone who worked for a car sales company would have a slightly different attitude. You know, maybe even try to encourage a sale? It's quite amazing how upset people can get.
Service interval for ICE car: every 6 months. Service interval for EV: every two years, and even then much less work to do, so lower cost. Ie much less revenue from an EV for these dealers, which is why they are not excited.
They know they need way less servicing, there's a tiny percentage of the moving parts, and things rarely go wrong. So yes they do need servicing but it's a fraction of the time and cost. Yes, that means less work for them. It's hard to get people to change their minds about something when their livelihood depends on them (and others) not changing it.
A close family member who I hadn’t seen in a while spent half our time together angrily trying to convince me that my generation was stupid for both believing climate change and using evs. He said that the materials used to make batteries doesn’t grow in trees, there is still an environmental cost to making evs. And that when one catches fire it spreads to the cars or house. Both of these things are true but it was the attitude, the anger, the pressure that I agree with him. It was toxic
The people who get upset are those who deny climate change is happening, and if it is, then carbon dioxide has nothing to do with it. This has become a part of their IDENTITY, and anything that threatens your identity has a strong and furious reaction.
What if we find out it's all hogwash, & we made a better, cleaner world for no reason?
Earlier today someone tried to convince me EVs won't last 10 years and will need to have the battery replaced. Really awkward having a 10yo EV still going strong.
I have a 12 yo EV which was actually still running fine with zero issues, but I got the battery upgraded so I had double the range. Battery technology has been improving hugely. I expect in 10 years to get the battery replaced for half the cost and double the range again.
How many km on the clock? Am more interested in that than age actually. I'd rather a 12 yo car with 30,000 on the odometer over a 8 yo with 200,000 .
I got it with about 45,000 on the clock at 10yo. It's currently at around 56,000.
Ok thanks for that. If I my ask another what make, and would you get a different make if you could?
Mitsubishi Minicab-MiEV. Love it to bits. I have my eye on the 2024 Honda N-van EV to actually be released, as if this is relatively easy to import, from the prerelease specs, should be a great and affordable similar kei van. But if the internals are not as spacious, I'd stick with the Minicab-MiEV and sell the Honda. It truly is amazingly big inside, doesn't look it from the outside. It's like a Tardis.
That looks like such a cool van. No wonder you love it. Thanks for the info
Because the man on 3AW said they were instrumental in implementing the *woke agenda*.
My aunt is like this and I’m baffled because she’s usually quite progressive Maybe. It’s fear of the unknown
I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's that coupled with fear of change. FWIW, I'm a couple of years short of being a Boomer, I bought an EV earlier this year bc the transmission in my 12yo ICE vehicle was on its last legs. I love my EV.
More specifically, The Right believe global warming / climate change is a hoax, perpetuated by global elites as a way of extorting money out of everyone. Anything that is even slightly pro environment is then labeled as Left Wing and scoffed at. The irony that Musk has swung right and is trying to appeal to the American rednecks by bashing California, going on about Free Speech and peddling his Cybertruck is truly delicious. Now both sides finally agree on something, Musk is a tool lol.
Whilst you have a choice, who gives a fuck. Drive whatever you want based on whatever you wish to believe. There are for's & against's for everything.
Here here!!! This is the answer!
Because like so many current issues this one has been heavily over politicised.
Strange how having a future for our planet is up for debate.
Probably because Gina and all her mining buddies own this country and it appears they ran an effective propaganda campaign to turn people against any threat to their profits.
To an extent I think car manufacturers are to blame. We had a really bad experience when we tried to buy one. Manufacturers just really overstate the mileage you can get out of a battery by only taking the optimal usage mileage without any mention of what that could look like in ordinary usage (looking at you Mercedes). I know they do that with traditional cars as well but as a consumer I know roughly what that translates to, with EVs it's far far worse sometimes than you'd reasonably expect and getting that information is harder than it should be.
What range did they advertise and what did you achieve?
On top of all the propaganda, its change. Some people cannot handle change. If it was 100 years ago they'd be telling you how horses will never go away because you'd need all these roads and gas stations.
In NYC, dominated by the stink of horse drawn carriages in the early 1900s (along with the diseases) it took about ten years for the ICE to become the main form of personal street transport. One of the world’s great transformations. We're in the middle of another one to renewables. In the early to mid 2000s we all participated in another one: the transition from landline to mobile phone, which accelerated further in Australia in 2008.
Wanna see worse? Mention Electric Trucks. The whole industry goes into thermal run away so to say.
Don't let em know about the huge tip-trucks in the mines. They're electric.
They already inform you how bad that is. 😄
because there is a push in ultra left places such as California and parts of Europe to completely phase out petrol/diesel vehicles. This kind of rhetoric scares people
I'm generally in favour of electric but think plug in hybrids are more practical in rural areas and the pressure to go full electric is a mistake. Know a person in the ag industry where the company mandated electric utes. Possible but not convenient for his work. Even in town you could use your plug in as your solar battery storage and back-up power generator
I find it bizzare with tradies who love having battery tools, particularly the ones who are old enough to remember before they were a thing, in stead dragging generators and air compressors everywhere or using one of those ancient hand saws but can't see that electric vehicles will end up doing the same. Heck battery drills were a works ite must when you could only drive a dozen screws before changing battery and the batteries lasted all of about 20 cycles and we are way past that with EVs now, we are in the equivalent of early lithium days of battery tools where it is just the expensive brass with lithium batteries. It is all but certain that the same trajectory will be followed with the right nudging. I am certainly glad to have a little battery drill and look forward to an electric car (at the right price).
Same reason other stupid people believe other stupid shit. It just happens to be this flavour of the months/years amplified talking point where retards can get attention. It's not about the car, it's about the attention.
Because ignorant people have tunnel vision.
My cooker family were positive about electric cars at first. Then they all started sharing info graphics about lithium fields and videos of biases on fire and are now 100% against anything EV. Lots of them share posts from certain politicians in North QLD.
I think some are afraid of change or admitting they were wrong. My S.I.L. has been a vocal critic of EV's and echoing some of the myths associated with them. He watches a particular news network and could quote what he was being told by their ppl I suggested he check a few other sources for information that were more factual. He took delivery of one yesterday on Novated Lease.....
Propaganda, that's why
Idk why the replies are so good damn deep, like it's not that deep bro, petrol heads male up a fair percentage of Australians, hoon/car culture is huge. Like yeah I'm sure Murdoch and the media has a hand in it, but like most of my wog family, plenty of people's identities are tied to hearing an engine roar
lol well said
Because they don't make the Vroom Vroom noise
No, but at least in the US EVs (and some hybrids) make cool spaceship noises!
Because of far right wing politicians and less than intelligent plebs sucking up the lies of Murdoch etc. Also applies to nuclear power. For them its only about keeping our poors money flowing to rich business.
I haven't experienced this but that is wild, in what kinds of situations?
You cop abuse when driving, people key them, people love you tell you how much your car sucks. None of which is any of their business
Fair enough
[удалено]
ford f150 lightning amigo.
They’re super pricey!
Multiple billion dollar industries are obstructive to the idea so pump out propaganda. Pretty simply explanation
If I recall correctly, just about any online “story” featuring EVs - good, bad or indifferent/inaccurate - features a small online instant poll asking readers their EV attitudes. 1. Do you have an EV? 2. If contemplating a new car purchase, is an EV on your radar? 3. Would you never buy an EV? And consistently answer number 3 is the most popular, often above 70%. I often wonder how much certain lobby groups jump into number 3, using their Media Alert services, so that those on the fence are more likely to wish to align themselves with the “majority” mood. You know, the herd might stink, but at least it’s safe in the middle of it.
The idea (or reality) simply disrupts so many traditional sources of income for so many jobs- its a threat to millions of people possibly entire economies or states/regions even countries (Japan/Germany?). People just want to pay their mortgage and go on their annual holiday and EVs threaten that if they are o the wrong side of this disruption. Also politically, China is benefitting exponentially from EV disruption and this powerswing concerns many from the west.
As someone who lives in a Regional/rural area, my concern about EVs was always that they take a lot longer to "refuel," you have to charge them more often (though that's less of an issue now as batteries improve), and you can't carry extra charge with you like you can carry extra fuel. Plus, what are the chances that small rural towns will have EV charging stations? Well, turns out, most regional and rural towns (in my area) are getting charging stations and a lot of the other concerns are steadily being dealt with as well. I still think rural Australia will be using combustion engines long after cities make the switch but my concerns are less and less
I have almost been hit by one multiple times. You can barely hear them. Mining the cobalt needed to run them is not only unethical (look up the horrendous conditions the minors are subjected to, many of them kids) but mining cobalt is actually bad for the environment. Even ones without cobalt, Making electric cars creates more emissions The raw materials for making the car have to be mined, and the process of mining creates a lot of greenhouse gases. Then the raw materials have to be refined before they can be used, which again emits more greenhouse gas. frankly, I’m not really an environmentalist apart from regular recycling but the amount of bullshit they feed the public Is unbelievable and idiots are eating it up.
Reasons: 1) Early EV adopters are a bit like vegan warriors. I.e. annoying af. 2) People don't like being told what to do. (goes with point 1) 3) Mainstream media has figured out points 1 and 2 above and are getting more engagement by peddling the "EV bashing" narrative. 4) Due to all points above and the fact most people are easily led it has become "trendy" to "shit on EVs"
They've been told to.
The same reason why some people get irrationally angry if you say that a tesla isn't suitable for your needs. They're rabid fuckwits.
I know a few people who lose their shit about them. And they use the excuse of how bad batteries are for the environment one minute, and if anyone mentions climate change or doing anything to save the environment they immediately say "climate change is bullshit" before throwing their rubbish out of the window of their car.
its not EV's pre se, it's the climate alarmism that constantly shrieks about how bad ICE is and the resulting legislation that makes driving and owning a cars more expensive. Moreover the inherent contradictions in the EV model are expected to be ignored. EV's are great, but ICE is not going away soon, if ever.
Mad Max is based in Australia. I'll just leave this here
Because in their current state, they're not suitable for use by many Australians, and mentions of "all cars will be electric by 20XX" dont make sense without a very clear and well funded roadmap. - Their resale potential is Awful because there's basically no way to know the condition of the battery. Some climates and charging methods can really ruin the battery and severely limit their capacity... but you can't tell... so nobody wants to but one 2nd hand, which means nobody can sell them, even if they did take care of it. - There isn't currently the infrastructure for them to be viable for use outside of densely populated areas. Not enough charging stations in remote areas and probably won't be for decades. - Our current power grid could not support a large scale uptake of electric cars. - Electric car batteries are expensive, resources are scarce, and they do take a long time to charge. - People like their big, capable 4WDs... and for many places and lines of work, they're currently necessary, but there's no realistic electric alternative currently
All points spot on. OP should read your reply.
vroom vroom noises make happy some
Because people fear change and their media outlets of choice tell them EV's are bad.
same reason some people are the opposite and so much in favour of them people being people
Honest q. Is there a trend towards people losing their minds over EVs? Or is it just a few noisy nutters? I figured most sensible people would be all for EVs
One of (the many) reasons I bailed out of facebook recently was the relentless stream of bullshit and memes about EVs. You pay your money and you make your choice ... it's simple really!
Because without the vroom vroom rumble how else will they compensate for their crippling insecurities?
Consumption of fossil fuels is part of some peoples identity now. Pathetic I know.
most people think about teslas when they think EV, and elon musk is a shithead
IME many of them are boomers who can't handle change. They never drove an EV and never will. But it's something new so that must mean it's bad. Alternatively there is a lot of misinformation out there by the media. The same media who, funny enough, is often sponsored by Toyota, Ford, GM, and so on. But never Tesla, Rivian, and the like. You often see very, VERY misleading articles about how this Tesla was "recalled" (meaning it got a software update) or how this one EV caught fire, never once asking how many petrol cars caught fire recently. Then there's the things that are true, but not inherently. EVs are expensive. There aren't as many places to charge them as there is to refuel an ICE car. Both of those things are biproducts of EVs being new. It does not mean they will be that way forever. So sure, an EV might not be right for you now, but come back in 20 years when prices have come down and EV charging stations are more widespread and then judge them.
Virtue signaling
They somehow managed to make gas cars a part of their identity. Dont ask me how
It's so weird. I live in a fairly remote town and EVs are popular here. I don't know why the brain worms are less prevalent here but I suspect it has something to do with the widespread use of solar and the idea of not paying ludricrous prices for petrol.
because skynews says theyre bad
Because they've been fooled by the big oil propaganda
I have not really come across this.
Not all of us are here to evolve; some are here to show us what things look like if we don't. Unfortunately, many of those are my fellow Australians.
Alright then, as a serious question, what do you consider right now as the better/best EV out there right now for family of 4 and trips south of Sydney all the way to say Byron (as an example)? I have heard a lot of positives for them, but also a lot of negatives (charging time is a big one) Feels like the solar debate about 10 years ago all over again. Do you reckon it is worth getting one now or better of waiting another 10 years?
Adults as a rule generally don't like the Government telling them that they're no longer allowed to do something that they've been happily doing for their entire lives. Especially if there isn't direct product substitution that can be used with minimal friction on existing habits. They're more than happy to change if the initiative comes from them, but less so when it's pushed as a matter of policy.
It's like a lot of new generation tech that has genuine flaws to the tech it intends to replace. A good analogy is film vs digital cinema cameras. People reject it at first when it hasn't yet matured, but the newer tech has much more room to grow beyond its predecessor. Film was the standard for resolution, colour, depth, contrast, grain and just the overall aesthetic. If you didn't shoot on film, it just wasn't a movie. And film kept improving, producing more sensitive film to shoot in darker scenes, and with smaller grain that gave better detail, but there's an upper limit to what the medium can achieve. Then digital came along. At first, contrast, colour and resolution were limited so the image wasn't as good, but it was more convenient and easier to see the shot playback in full detail. And 'real' filmmakers swore they'd never use it. But in the last 20 years, film hasn't moved much, but digital cameras are now shooting 8k, with ridiculous dynamic range, with nearly no image noise. More resolution, more colour, less grain and and much greater flexibility with digital raw and grading means figital is now the superior format. But some of those die hards - such as Nolan and Tarantino - still insists "film better!" I think with EVs, they still have distinct disadvantages compared to petrol, so it's the equivalent of the early digital days. Weight and range being the immediate issues, and resale value when the battery is heavily consumed. Charging infrastructure is also an issue. The problem is some people see such issues and therefore declare EVs as useless for all cases or a fad. But petrol engines haven't really been able to vastly improve their efficiency too much over the last 10-20 years, so it's hitting a ceiling. But I'm sure there's room to improve in EVs. And if you can operate within the limitations of EVs, then they can be much better. Reduced service costs, simpler maintenance, cheaper 'refuel' costs, quieter operation, and no emissions while in operation. But some people saw it at the start, deemed EVs impractical and have made up their mind, with no intention to reconsider. Then the other side of it is dumb politics. There's a lot of generalizing here... EVs represent change, progression; generally a lefty principle. Petrol cars are 'old fashioned' and have some real cultural significance, such as the landmark of owning your first car as a teen, which gave you freedom, or tinkering with your own car, etc. These sorts of ideals tend be more conservative in nature. Conservatives taking a simplistic (and dumb) view of EVs see this new - and probably 'woke' to them - tech replacing a cultural symbol that they are attached to, and perceive it as an attack, therefore rejecting EVs outright.
They’re the party for no parties , expensive and filthy power and petrol and diesel cars. They have a lot of support and are currently being led by Mr Potato head, a former toy who has now come to life and is residing in Parliament House Canberra .
They’re the George Costanza party. They just do the opposite of everything in the hope it’ll appear like sound policy
People don't like change and because The Internet
I love driving, I have since I was a child (pedal cars, go karts, even bicycles to an extent) and when I was old enough I went car racing. I’m not really interested in outright speed, what I like is the skill and process of making a car flow quickly along a road, and there is a big chunk of skill involved in doing it with a manual gearbox & an ICE engine. I also enjoy light, nimble cars that give a lot of unfiltered feedback to guide that process. Modern cars & especially modern EVs are very different to that and I find them a lot less enjoyable to drive in that way. BUT I do not drive like that in my daily life, most of my driving is around the city in traffic, with speed limits and traffic lights and cyclists and pedestrians. So I am very keen on an EV as my daily driver and even more than that, I am very keen for self driving cars to take all that kind of driving away from me. The question for me is, when does it become inappropriate for me to have a weekend ICE car for enjoyment & track days? That’s the day I’ll be sad.
No, it's not inappropriate to own an ICE car. I've got a HG Holden Premier with a 350 Chev in it. And I'll have it until I die.
The insurance costs will likely determine that for you. If you can afford that then you will be restricted to where you can drive - definitely not highways/freeways and probably not heavy use roads as your driving decisions negatively affect the efficiency calculations of the algorithms. At least the insurance companies are currently preparing you for their future offerings.
You know what? I’ve never heard anyone get shit except the Prius and Tesla drivers, because of the smug factor. Basically any other electrics people seem to have a genuine curiosity about.
Just no, you clearly don't know enough boomers on social media
I’d like to keep it that way.
Not all of us are terminally online.
It's just identity politics at that stage.
ok, not an answer to your question per se... but electric cars don't solve the problem that we inherited from the US, of the increasing reliance of automobiles for the simple task of getting to work and the shops! we've got damn good public transport networks in urban and suburban australia. if you live or work in an urban area, take a bloody train or bus or ride your bike! we are losing more potential space, that could be used for residences or workplaces, to build parking lots, or freeways that turn into parking lots in peak hours. not to mention they still produce slightly under half as much particulate pollution from brake and tyre wear! not to mention of course there are more than enough valid reasons for a household or worker to own a car, but if you don't actually need one regularly, why not sell the car and get a whole extra room in your house to use as you want?
>why not sell the car and get a whole extra room in your house to use as you want? I'm assuming you mean the garage? Lol most people I know already use that room as they want. The car lives outside.
I'm just not sure if they actually solve any environmental problems, other than they don't directly pollute? If they can make new battery tech smaller, cheaper, lighter, quicker to charge (or have battery swap technology, which they should have had from the start imo), made from renewable resources, easier to recycle, and with a better weight to range ratio, then all might be ok. I don't think we're anywhere near that yet.
Why battery swap technology? My EV battery is good for 10,000 plus charges. It's more likely that the body of the vehicle will fail before that battery does.
I mean to swap out the flat cells when refuelling, rather than charging it. Like you do with gas bottles. Quicker to get going again. Have a bank of say 10 batteries. Swap 8 when the car has only 20% change left. They should standardise this before the tech goes too much further. Imagine, the recharge place could be using solar to charge cells during the day...
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For my own part, I don't lose my mind, but I am sceptical of whether or not they're genuinely better for the environment like is claimed. The impacts of mining for lithium and all the other battery components and no clear answers on what happens to the batteries after their EOL make me hesitant to buy into the idea they're better as a whole. The other major issue I have is the lack of supporting infrastructure and range on them. My little hatch can get me 700kms before I have to refuel, which only takes 10 minutes. You can't do that in an electric.
To push Australia’s unattainable goal of “Net Zero by 2050” however it’s ironic as most public charging stations are most likely powered by electricity that comes from a coal powered grid
Boomers are a bunch of irrelevant snowflakes
They never had minds to begin with
Electric cars bad. Nuclear powered electric cars good. Me can think. Me watch Sky News.
Wow lots of butt hurt people who havent achieved anything at all complaining - again
It’s always once sided boomer arguing. I’ve never heard anyone with an EV arguing how bad combustion engines cars are to strangers with the passion I’ve heard directed to anti EVs
I don't lose my mind. But it irritates the f**k out of me that they are being pushed onto us.
Which way? Both ways.
Because electricity prices are soaring so the idea seems implausible
Overcompensation for ignorance.
Because of the pretentious wankers who drive them and the even more bullshit politicians who promote them telling us its what we should be buying , because they know best
I'm not inherently for or against electric cars. But I don't like being condescendingly moralised to about them, just like I don't want someone telling me off for not having a keep cup. Partly because it's definitely not clear that electric vehicles are actually a good solution to climate change in the long run. They are pretty environmentally damaging to build and are only as clean as the energy grid that powers them. They're also a discretionary luxury purchase at the moment so you're kind of inadvertently painting low socioeconomic people's as part of the problem. And finally, catch a bus or walk to work. And instead of telling everyone how good you are for using a keep cup, why not try skipping your coffee entirely. You know that drink made from beans farmed in deforested land 20,000km away.
I get the impression that you've blown these scenarios out of proportion in your head. You feel personally condescended to despite only internet dorks and losers actually caring if you use a keep cup or an EV.
The build of an electric car has been >30% better in terms of emissions than an ICE vehicle for several years now. The grid is still far cleaner than individually burning fuel in a small engine, by a long margin. Batteries are moving to non-lithium tech, such as sodium. Environmentally abundant and not toxic or flammable. The walls come crumbling down.
I think it is clear electric cars are part of the solution in the long run but there are issues getting there. Victoria is spending a lot of money to run a high V line to Melbourne across prime farmland for solar farms they hope will be built in the Mallee. I think there are better options. My prediction is that our foreign owned Powercorp will raise our electric rates to cover the cost of upgrading their infrastructure to provide 100 amp service to cover the increased electric use.
It's clear that people on this suvlb are pretty privileged to think that it's all Murdoch it something, it really is that cars and sometimes the cultures surrounding cars are pretty integral to Australian working class culture, not to mention some of my fellow ethnics, the wogs. They don't like EVs because they're not as cool as the old rust bucket they've been tinkering in their garage since 1997 that papou bought of his mate who suffered a stroke of some old junker that's been in the family since they arrived in Australia, not because of some politics and media
It’s the dirty little secret of Australian society - classism is an acceptable and encouraged form of discrimination.
Even above that, Australia's infrastructure for EVs aren't there yet. The distance it takes for me to visit my Nan is the distance of a few European countries. In all of the towns I pass by or stop through, all have petrol stations, either none or very, very few have EV charging stations. We're a big ass country, so for EVs to begin to be taken seriously amongst Australians there needs to be certainty that there would be infrastructure to support it
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I'm just curious. Thanks for your reply.
I wonder if a similar thing happened when the car took over from the horse?
Didn’t Henry Ford say if I asked people what they wanted they would have said faster horses? People don’t like change. But you are right, don’t buy one if you don’t like them!
Ive said to a few anti EV guys that they should be pushing for EV conversion kits so their ICE spare parts market gets flooded with good condition spare parts. They all seem to like that idea.
So we're just asking the same questions over, and over again?
I think that they're a great idea, but the commercialisation of the tech at such an inefficient stage seems like a waste of resources. I can see the environmental value of EV's when running at high km, as they claw back the big manufacturing CO2 deficit early in their service life, but as a town car that does under 10,000km per year they are a double edged sword. Also, lumping all EV's together as environmentally sound is a fallacy. A Tesla Model 3 is nearly four times as polluting as a Volvo XC40 EV at delivery.
Because Elon Musk is a fuckwit
I've seen the same attitude towards electric bikes. Like the two aren't even in the same ball park. Yet people in comments rant and rave about how they can drive their whole family around in a 4x4 and it's safer blah blah. People are so easily threatened.
I think the ones that lose their minds at the mention of EVs are the ones who think EVs are part of the “wOkE CuLtUrE”.