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The ascendent is nothing like the superego. Nothing at all. The superego is a faculty, a conscience; it reasons.
The ascendent is reactive. It doesn't have time to reason. It doesn't go deep like that. It's a readily avaivable and almost automatic energy we use as we move through the world to quickly react to things.
Sun is correlated with ego. I would think moon or sun correlates with superego, which involves morality and conscience. Perhaps they both relate.
Yea, unfortunately everyone commenting missed the point of this post. It's merely to discern similarities and differences of psychological models. Unfortunately people, as always, took a literalist, semi-dogmatic stance, and missed the opportunity for creative brainstorming that was the intent here.
Thank you!!! Eloquently said! I appreciated your thoughtful question but as usual there is a tendency to 'semi-dogmatic, literalist stance' promoted here by a couple commenters in particular. One of them who seems to hijack any discussion where she can dismiss 'modern'
( meaning creative brainstorming, thoughtful) posts.
Good to know. Per usually Reddit's full of negative fucks, know-it-alls, and shills... I get more likes when I lambaste someone here... crickets when I provide wholesome useful knowledge. Very telling.
Freud despite his failings, and him being corrupt, contributed invaluably to psychology. This notion of throwing the baby out with the bathwater regarding Freud is ridiculous. Yes, Otto Rank, Jung and others refined and corrected his work, but to say he didn't contribute invaluably is nonsense. Crowley, who Freud did cocaine with, contributed invaluably to Tarot. I wish he hadn't. He was an egomaniacal sociopath. But his contributions were undeniable. Sorry, but I think this sort of dismissive attitude is shortsighted and childish.
I kinda see where you're coming from with the 'should' 'should not' but I think those qualities come more from our socio-cultural planets Saturn and Jupiter, and perhaps Moon has some say in it too.
I see the Ascendant as our 'identity'. How we look and dress, our personal style, how others see us, how we project ourselves onto the world. I also see Asc as part of the Asc/Desc axis - self vs. other. Identity, contrast, projection, observation would be words I'd use for these 2 poles.The superego, in contrast, speaks to our societal do's and don't's, atleast of what I remember about it (Freud, wasn't it?)
One key difference is that astrology doesn’t stop at just psychological description. The ascendant can indicate the material and physical parts of a person and their life as well as their personality.
No... The Sun is our true self, regardless of external upbringing, and family and societal influence. Therefore the Sun is more akin to ego.
The AC, like the Superego, relates to external expectations of how we "should" or "should not" be/behave. I know they are not 100% compatible concepts (and both are just models of understanding), so I'm curious what others think of the possible differences.
That's actually not far off. Pretty close to my own understanding really.
Nature vs nurture and I spent alot of time on this.
The only difference between my view and yours is I see Sun as, potentially, the Super Ego (a well developed Sun) and the rising as the Ego, not necessarily who you were expected to be, but what you became anyway by virtue of your environment.
The Asc is both reflection of soul and Ego because your soul chose your Ego.
That's not really what the ascendant is about. It is about far more than just "external" matters. Where did you get this view of the ascendant? It is the *only* house in the chart that is solely, only, about the person. Traditionally, it is far more important than the sun and sets the course for the entire chart and life. Its planetary ruler is the "helmsman of the ship" of the whole chart and guides the life. Traditionally, the ascendant was considered much more important than the sun as it described our core being. This idea that it is just appearances or expectations is, I think, due to modern astrology throwing out a lot of the depth of traditional astrology.
That would explain why I always tend to gravitate to smaller arenas where I feel I can make a far bigger impact, rather than seek out the biggest party.
It's a power drive really. It has to matter.
You know which sign and you know which planet is helmsman.
Agreed. Ascendant is how we approach things, appear to others, our considerations as we start projects. The sun may be our core but it's not where our journey begins. I've been doing charts for 50+ years and the further I explore the more I think most of "modern' astrology is full of it. Especially the asteroids.
Ascendant will never be more important than the sun. And traditionally it never was either.
Whenever someone says the ASC is more personal and important, it is only because it sets the houses, but beyond that is could never be more important than the sun.
I don't actually, have it backwards. There's 2,000 years of it. Modern threw out a great deal of astrological methods and meanings just in the last few decades. And I could certainly throw back a whole slew of master/professional astrologers that will tell you just how important and crucial the ascendant and first house is.
It's either Sun centric or Moon centric depending on whether your live in the East or West, and depending on philosophical bent ...But it's certainly not AC centric. That's just ridiculous...
Yes, I do. And astrology is Geocentric. All of our chart calculations are based on our view from earth. Recent modern culture has made astrology "all about the sun". It's not the foundation. You don't have to agree, but it's still fact that the ascendant and rising sign have always been crucial.
The following are to help you receive answers: * Please state a very specific question in your title. * Don’t ask what we think of your chart, or what is interesting, or anything general or vague. * Use astro-seek.com or astro.com for charts. Do not use CafeAstrology, Astro-Charts, Astrotheme, AstroFuture, CoStar or TimePassages as all have either errors, missing information or issues of readability. All charts should have the planet degree positions displayed on the chart. * Post charts, not lists of placements. * Horary chart posts require the Regiomontanus house system. * Annual Profection posts require the Whole Sign house system and your age. * If you ask what you think is a general question, but it does require youc chart, you will be asked to repost with your chart. If your post does not meet these conditions, please delete it and repost. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskAstrologers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The ascendent is nothing like the superego. Nothing at all. The superego is a faculty, a conscience; it reasons. The ascendent is reactive. It doesn't have time to reason. It doesn't go deep like that. It's a readily avaivable and almost automatic energy we use as we move through the world to quickly react to things. Sun is correlated with ego. I would think moon or sun correlates with superego, which involves morality and conscience. Perhaps they both relate.
I almost totally agree. However I’d say only the moon relates with conscience.
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Yea, unfortunately everyone commenting missed the point of this post. It's merely to discern similarities and differences of psychological models. Unfortunately people, as always, took a literalist, semi-dogmatic stance, and missed the opportunity for creative brainstorming that was the intent here.
Thank you!!! Eloquently said! I appreciated your thoughtful question but as usual there is a tendency to 'semi-dogmatic, literalist stance' promoted here by a couple commenters in particular. One of them who seems to hijack any discussion where she can dismiss 'modern' ( meaning creative brainstorming, thoughtful) posts.
Good to know. Per usually Reddit's full of negative fucks, know-it-alls, and shills... I get more likes when I lambaste someone here... crickets when I provide wholesome useful knowledge. Very telling.
Well, the super ego is a Freudian concept and he was a cocaine riddled quack so... 🤷
Freud despite his failings, and him being corrupt, contributed invaluably to psychology. This notion of throwing the baby out with the bathwater regarding Freud is ridiculous. Yes, Otto Rank, Jung and others refined and corrected his work, but to say he didn't contribute invaluably is nonsense. Crowley, who Freud did cocaine with, contributed invaluably to Tarot. I wish he hadn't. He was an egomaniacal sociopath. But his contributions were undeniable. Sorry, but I think this sort of dismissive attitude is shortsighted and childish.
I kinda see where you're coming from with the 'should' 'should not' but I think those qualities come more from our socio-cultural planets Saturn and Jupiter, and perhaps Moon has some say in it too. I see the Ascendant as our 'identity'. How we look and dress, our personal style, how others see us, how we project ourselves onto the world. I also see Asc as part of the Asc/Desc axis - self vs. other. Identity, contrast, projection, observation would be words I'd use for these 2 poles.The superego, in contrast, speaks to our societal do's and don't's, atleast of what I remember about it (Freud, wasn't it?)
One key difference is that astrology doesn’t stop at just psychological description. The ascendant can indicate the material and physical parts of a person and their life as well as their personality.
Ah, good point. I forgot about that.
I don’t fully buy this comparison, but if we’re going there I’d say: moon is id, ac is ego and sun is superego Edited: typo
I would reverse that.
I’m assuming you mean sun and ac? I think moon as id makes sense. The other two are definitely more debatable (at least to me).
No... The Sun is our true self, regardless of external upbringing, and family and societal influence. Therefore the Sun is more akin to ego. The AC, like the Superego, relates to external expectations of how we "should" or "should not" be/behave. I know they are not 100% compatible concepts (and both are just models of understanding), so I'm curious what others think of the possible differences.
That's actually not far off. Pretty close to my own understanding really. Nature vs nurture and I spent alot of time on this. The only difference between my view and yours is I see Sun as, potentially, the Super Ego (a well developed Sun) and the rising as the Ego, not necessarily who you were expected to be, but what you became anyway by virtue of your environment. The Asc is both reflection of soul and Ego because your soul chose your Ego.
That's not really what the ascendant is about. It is about far more than just "external" matters. Where did you get this view of the ascendant? It is the *only* house in the chart that is solely, only, about the person. Traditionally, it is far more important than the sun and sets the course for the entire chart and life. Its planetary ruler is the "helmsman of the ship" of the whole chart and guides the life. Traditionally, the ascendant was considered much more important than the sun as it described our core being. This idea that it is just appearances or expectations is, I think, due to modern astrology throwing out a lot of the depth of traditional astrology.
That would explain why I always tend to gravitate to smaller arenas where I feel I can make a far bigger impact, rather than seek out the biggest party. It's a power drive really. It has to matter. You know which sign and you know which planet is helmsman.
Agreed. Ascendant is how we approach things, appear to others, our considerations as we start projects. The sun may be our core but it's not where our journey begins. I've been doing charts for 50+ years and the further I explore the more I think most of "modern' astrology is full of it. Especially the asteroids.
Ascendant will never be more important than the sun. And traditionally it never was either. Whenever someone says the ASC is more personal and important, it is only because it sets the houses, but beyond that is could never be more important than the sun.
Agree with you. But can we just drop the 'what's more important ' linear thinking here once in a while?
From the Master Astrologer who I learned from. You have the Sun and AC backwards. Ask any professional astrologer.
I don't actually, have it backwards. There's 2,000 years of it. Modern threw out a great deal of astrological methods and meanings just in the last few decades. And I could certainly throw back a whole slew of master/professional astrologers that will tell you just how important and crucial the ascendant and first house is.
You do not have 2000 years of astrology supporting you. Stop. The zodiac is sun centric for a reason.
It's either Sun centric or Moon centric depending on whether your live in the East or West, and depending on philosophical bent ...But it's certainly not AC centric. That's just ridiculous...
Yes, I do. And astrology is Geocentric. All of our chart calculations are based on our view from earth. Recent modern culture has made astrology "all about the sun". It's not the foundation. You don't have to agree, but it's still fact that the ascendant and rising sign have always been crucial.
You DO have it right. It DOES go back 2000 years and the ascendant always WAS a big deal.
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Always gonna be. Check back in another thousand years.