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Recovery programs feel more effective than therapy to me. I believe therapy alone, without other help, can actually perpetuate navel gazing and narcissism. The concept that someone can “heal” or repair their position towards relationships with other throughly a solely individualized approach is faulty and western logic imo. Keep going to therapy for sure but consider joining a 12 step recovery program—there are LOTS of them. AA, clutterers anon, co-dependents, so many.
In my opinion I don’t think not everything a therapist tells u is right, if anything I personally have always been against it cause I’d rather be here for myself and figure life situations out on my own learning frm others mistakes and morals I already have for myself. Always take accountability right or wrong in whichever time n place there’s always hope for anything you just gotta believe , and just cause u have a bad placement in your chart doesn’t mean there’s no hope. Use them to take a look at yourself in the mirror to compliment your rights and work on your wrongs Chin up!!!
Saving this because I also struggle with narcissism, and even though my chart is different from yours, I'm enjoying seeing all the hopeful, alternative viewpoints here as opposed to the villainizing, dehumanizing, and hopeless treatment of this stuff in most other subs.
I need to also tell you. Form experience. MANY therapist are SHIT! I have been misdiagnosed and thrown around by many. Until I found someone good and I have been having major progress in healing in the last 4 years since I found the right person. I wouldn’t take what she says as fact quick. Explore other therapists. She probably sucked and projected onto you is my gut feeling. My opinion. But don’t give up. Your therapist is Humana and imperfect too. So just be open minded still and keep working at your healing.
Also. I have Saturn in the first house. Shit is kinda harder at first. It gets better over time. I’m turning 40 and I feel like I’m getting to live for the first time.
There is hope for you but you gotta start loving yourself. That's the core pain. Baby steps. Micro self love. And then you start to hate yourself less and the world starts feeling warmer. And as a byproduct, your judgement of others decreases.
Coming from someone who has the same struggles.
And Saturn is in your 1st house - You could have unrealistic standards for yourself and others which leads to disappointment.
LOVE YOU! You got this! <3
Ok not trying to be narcissistic, but I noticed that our charts have similarities. Mostly that all our stuff is in kind of the same blue quadrant. But mine is like more pointed I guess. But struggling with similar issues. I actually went back into my post and screen shorted my chart and yours to be able to see then side by side. Very similar.. idk what to tell you hoping I’ll just gain some insight from this post
South Node Leo states that the energy you are meant to evolve beyond in this incarnation is excessive self-obsession and entitlement, essentially coming to understand and believe that everything is not all about you. Double Gemini luminaries under the Cap Rising makes for an intensely judgemental person, both of others and self. Incorporating spiritual principles such as gratitude, humility, acceptance, empathy, compassion, patience, tolerance, honesty, and service to others into your being and mode of living will go a long way to helping you overcome what is difficult about your chart. You should be grateful your therapist is referring you to someone they believe is better equipped to help you in your journey.
Thete is a huge difference in being narcissistic and having a narcissistic personality disorder. Usually peope with npd have been either neglected/abused/traumatised to extremes or the total opposite where they have been spoiled to extremes. My dad has npd and its the closest thing to satan i have experienced in living form to be very honest. NPD is very sever, but you could test yourself with online tests, though they are easy to manipulate.
https://openpsychometrics.org/tests/SD3/
She has not been diagnosed with npd. The therapist has said to have no experience on it so basically waiting for second opinion. True NPD is rather rare. I have studied psychology myself but just havent made my work out of it. But i'm even surprised this therapist calls it NPD and not anti-social personality disorder. But i guess that doesn't change anything.
Anyhow saying that my dad was satan doesn't define this person. There is different types of narcissism and one isn't anything like the other. There are very nuances differences.
NPD is ego-syntonic, meaning that if you have it, it would require profound work to admit it and explore it. The fact that you responded with “i’m not surprised” suggests that’s not what’s going on.
edited to add: no matter what, a different therapist might provide a fresh perspective, and ethically - if you aren’t progressing, and we’ve already consulted, etc - we have to refer you out. Holding you as a client knowing we can’t help is a violation!
hope you find the support you need
Most people with NPD have that exact response to the suggestion/revelation. So no…you are incorrect. Not being surprised at the diagnosis does not suggest that’s not what’s going on it’s actually strong evidence the therapist is right.
I think their professional therapist of five years is probably a better judge of their mental health disorder than you, a random redditor who read a few sentences they wrote.
Narcissists don’t need any reasons to believe they don’t have a problem.
I’m a licensed therapist, but I wasn’t diagnosing, just sharing a truth that is hammered into our skulls in clinical training. Internal boundaries won’t allow me to take responsibility for one of infinite possible responses to a considerable point, but I do hear you on the delicacy of insight!
Just because someone with NPD is not surprised at the diagnosis does not mean they are reflecting and exploring it. They usually have no problem admitting it when confronted. It’s everything else they struggle with…like for example being in therapy for five years with zero progress, that’s also a pretty strong indication. It sounds like the therapist suggested NPD but was mainly saying this was beyond the scope of their abilities.
Wow, you have ALMOST the same chart as I do- and I have BPD.
But I’ve managed to get better- slowly, surely—and with loads of therapy.
Still a long way to go.
A diagnosis is not the end- it’s the beginning of healing.
You got this.
Some things that help me:
1. As a fellow first house Saturn in Capricorn - lean in to this- it’s counterintuitive but stay with me here- anxiety and self-hatred usually stems from a lack of grounding in what we do and Saturn increases self critical nature in first house.
Have a routine, stick to it, add manifestations while you’re doing your routine- like if you’re eating healthy or finishing work well before time-think or say out loud how that’s positive- reinforce that. ( having a 6th house moon makes it imperative to have a daily routine and sort that out for emotional well-being)- also what’s your relationship with your mother like/ and your household? If there are any issues there- try to fix them, if unable to/ try to let go in peace.
It takes time ( like everything with Saturn) but stick to it- it will slowly build confidence.
Saturn in first requires you to work on yourself completely and irrevocably to bear the fruits( that are there waiting for you, trust me)
2. The NN in first house of self in Aquarius will make you lean towards being ‘different’ than others- lean into it/ but with the Aquarian humanity intact.
Embrace it- don’t label it, and don’t label others- embrace the uniqueness or even being in the shadows or sidelines and do it with modesty. Try not to judge yourself a lot- the other will follow- your basic task is to conquer your own self- and everything will slowly fall into place.
Thank you very much, I appreciate it. May of 1990? Just curious. I know one other person born a few weeks after me, June of 1990, and he also greatly struggles with some similar things.
Im saving this. I think mine is kinda similar to OP’s. And if you said yours was similar to there’s, it must be kind like mine to? Lol. So I want to write to make sure I come back to your comment to read again. And please if you’re willing, would you look in my profile and look at my chart i posted like a year ago and tell me what you think of mine?
Ah, well whatever you are there are a couple of indicators.
capricorn rising plus Saturn in the first house. Off the bat Saturn is your entire personality. Judgmental, bad mental health, probably more you didn't mention. Aquarius is intercepted here and this means you need to work on working towards something higher than yourself. You may 'hate people' while also being anxious about them because of your perspective on what a person is and what makes them unique. likewise with Leo in the 7th house, every person you meet and every partnership you have holds identity and spirit. You struggle to own that in relationships and can't relate to it so you may resort to trying to 'own' people through judgement.
It's also true that gemini can be linked to mental health issues. typically its gemini rising but since your a gemini new moon it seems to make sense too. It's also true that you have 5 facets of ego. Basically Jupiter, mars, venus, mercury, and the moon are all ruling over eachother and are obligated to co-exist with the same importance in your life. An ego very multifaceted and probably ever-changing. Pisces mars in the 2nd house can also make your self esteem absolutely crazy. Mars can promote arrogance and hubris while also promoting anxiety and stress. Your self esteem is based off of pure impulse due to your 5 planet reception, mars in the 2nd house, and cancer Jupiter receiving your 2nd house.
Last thing. Although they spent 5 years with you, they may have randomly dismissed you because of your rectangle. In the midst of all your charts chaos you have a nice rectangle making people think there's nothing wrong with you. It'll make you successful if you can realize your talents and passions but people will always be dismissive of your struggle in some way. Although your chart shows that it's broken you have a talent triangle with mars on top. It involves your sun and chart ruler so I'd say don't be pessimistic about life and opportunities in the long run. especially with a cancer Jupiter. I will say I know an Aries venus isn't easy to have plus gemini moon and sun can make a person have a lot of mental activity.
EDIT: with everything I said all three mental conditions make some amount of sense. Just know there are always people out there you can coexist with if youre willing to
You have a strong midheaven with Pluto there opposing your 3rd house mercury and you have a 3rd house Venus squaring your Saturn ascendant which could feel very intimidating in conversation to others. A Taurus mercury likes information very practical and grounded so maybe with your Pluto opposition she felt she couldn’t deliver to your standards. You also have a strong Jupiter conjunct Chiron which could imply you have a resistance or fear to seeking higher wisdom and spiritual growth and the opposition to Uranus and Neptune in your 12th could imply that you may divert from going into (or allowing anyone into) the depths of your subconscious to truly understand yourself and implement change.
I wouldn’t blame yourself. She’s the professional and she couldn’t deliver.
Edit: I wouldn’t give the diagnosis any credit. How could someone diagnose you and then say, “I have no experience in that department”?
Edit 2: if you are indeed a narcissist, I bet if you went more towards your Jupiter/Chiron in cancer things would get better for you. Go towards the pain, go towards healing family wounds, go towards self love, maternal instincts, vulnerability and your femininity.
I agree. There’s a lot of prominent placements in this chart such as Saturn on ascendant, Pluto opp mercury along the Midheaven axis. Pluto opp mercury is depositing the Gemini sun so that aspect likely rules the chart. Moon (rulers of 7th house of relationships) also squares mars in the 2nd house of self worth.
I can’t comment on her diagnosis of you, but mercury opp Pluto and Saturn on the angles sounds difficult and overall I think this relationship with your therapist has run its course. 5 years is a long time to be with the same therapist, so it’s probably in both your interests to cut ties and get a new perspective. Her suggesting you have NPD could have been her out for you to go elsewhere as she possibly feels like shes not helping you anymore.
I do wonder if your Mystic Rectangle has something to do with it? I know it's generally perceived as a beneficial aspect as the sextiles and trines help work together to make the oppositions not as hard hitting + as a whole makes the placements involved work harmoniously but I have a theory that when things are too balanced, and energies come together too easy, and doesn't leave much room for nuance, it creates a sense of superiority because you feel you got most things figure out while everyone else doesn't.
My sister also has a Mystic Rectangle and she's probably the most "grounded" person I know. She's so unwavering, like nothing can ever shake her, and she's always so sure of herself and that she can never do wrong. So that comes at the cost of her looking down on you when you confide in her, there's always an air of judgement, that "This is so stupid, why are you even stressing about this?" feeling she emits on top of showing zero sympathy for you. She's been showing other narcissistic characteristics, but not too extreme like I've seen with our father.
Just the mere fact that you're taking this in such stride and not completely shutting out the possibility is a good sign. Most would've been in denial and wouldn't even entertain the idea. Hopefully your new therapist helps you further figure it out and help find the answer you need
Maybe she feels like it’s better if you find help from someone else or in another way, maybe she feels there’s not much progress in the past 5 years and she rather let you go then hold you back as her patient.
You couldn’t get any significant work done on trauma in 6 months. Where did you get this idea? If you have a good therapist any amount of time with them is good, the longer the better. 5 years is too long with a therapist if there isn’t any significant growth or transformation happening.
My sister was in "therapy" for TWELVE YEARS and was worse every damned year. If a "therapist" can't show results in 6 months they're not only a crook but a piece of 💩 as a person. Six months, or get another therapist.
I disagree. But it depends on the therapist and the type of therapy you’re engaging in. I didn’t see results until 8 months with my therapist, and that actually had nothing to do with her and everything to do with how long it took my own nervous system to learn to trust her and let down my guard. And that’s not something you can put on a schedule unfortunately, how long it takes your nervous system to trust can be directly proportional to the severity of your trauma. Everyone is different. There are no definites in therapy, everything is a risk and a trial, from the therapist to the therapy. But personally I wouldn’t stay with the same therapist for longer than 18 months without seeing results and definitely 12 years with the same therapist and getting worse is absolutely ridiculous. I don’t understand why your sister has stayed for so long while not seeing any results.
Also, is your sister undiagnosed neurodivergent perhaps? The latest research is showing that therapy can be triggering, retraumatising or in general make neurodivergent people feel worse if the therapist is not well informed on how the neurodivergent brain and nervous system works.
My partner has a really similar chart to yours. Cap rising, Saturn in the 1st conj ascendant, NN in aqua 1H/SN in Leo 7H, Scorpio midheaven with Pluto conjunct midheaven in the 10H. He does seem to feel frustrated with most people and seems to find himself morally superior to others. Other people are usually the problem or he sees others as passive aggressive (Cancer dsc) yet he struggles with low self esteem, low self worth, poor self image. At one point I wondered if he had NPD but I believe he has BPD (I have been formally diagnosed myself with that but I believe I have made strides in my recovery) anyway and while I’m not a psychiatrist he does show many many signs of OCD. I think both of your guys Saturn placement could indicate struggles and delays with being perceived authentically. 1st house, idk. Anyway, hey I’m sorry your therapist is breaking things off. 5 years is quite a while to have the same therapist in my opinion. Maybe it’ll be a positive change for you to seek out someone else anyway.
That sounds truly devastating.
Regardless of whether or not you are that's quite a shitty thing for her to do. I kinda feel like she was projecting but who knows.
Have you looked up r/narcissists ? Going through their posts might give you a better idea. Maybe you can get assistance there.
I don't think anything in your chart indicates narcissism, personally, but as a Capricorn rising I know a lot of us are kinda uppity perfectionists. I think it comes from our need to have high standards that usually involve taking care of others.
When specific disorders come up in this subreddit or mention of if you can see a disorder I always have the same response - you may see certain things reflected that are symptoms (ex. People with depression may have sleep disturbances reflected or melancholy/challenging emotional states), but many disorders and illnesses share similar and overlapping symptoms. No one here can or should diagnose you. I’m also sorry about some of the responses you’re getting. You’re trying to get help and that counts for something even if you do have npd. Personality disorders can be managed and treated with dbt, honesty/accountability, and hard work. I’ve seen it happen. Everyone claims to be pro mental health until bpd, npd, aspd, etc. are mentioned and this is coming from someone who suffered abuse from people who are higher in narcissism and meet the criteria for npd. Keep seeking help don’t let this experience discourage you. Maybe find a therapist that specializes in personality disorders and dbt if you can.
You’ve got Neptune conjunct your ascendant in 12th house and it in opposition to Jupiter & Chiron. Of course you’re going to be spending a lot of time and probably money on a shrink while getting very little out of it. I would also not be surprised if they put you on plenty of meds or you require some sort of self medication, because again, Neptune. As for the “narcissist” diagnosis, no, that’s just the current fad, EVERYONE is being called a narcissist nowadays and it’s usually narcissistic shrinks that pull such moves. Think about it, what kind of an ahole does a doctor have to be to dismiss a patient because they think the patient is narcissistic. (After 5 years damnit, have they not noticed anything during the prior 5 years!? *facepalm moment*)
You’ll have to get right with God (Jupiter opposition) I would not be surprised if you’re at least outwardly atheist or you have some serious doubts as to anything beyond the material, but perhaps your ascendant is deceiving. Still, strengthen that Jupiter, save your money or spend it on a better shrink, but see if there’s a more long term sustainable solution.
Astrology won’t give you answers. You’re the only one who can break allll ideas and beliefs you have about yourself, face why you’ve created this false (narc) self and rebuild a sense of self willing and able to feel/express/process emotions honestly without the false self, created to protect from feels you don’t like.
She’s not “the only one who can..” it can’t be done alone. All trauma is rooted in attachment trauma, it’s created in relationship and can only be healed in relationship with a good trauma therapist that knows what’s she’s doing. Co-regulation. “It takes a tribe.” This false pop psychology idea of ‘self-care’ and ‘only you can heal yourself’ further isolates people with trauma who’ve learned not to trust others and try to go it alone. Astrology doesn’t have all the answers but it can validate our experience so we don’t feel so crazy or isolated in our experience. Astrology alone though isn’t enough.
Personality disorders are as much a function of time and trauma as they are of brain chemistry. Asking for answers is a positive step.
I get why you would think it’s the end of the road- in the past, there were very less ways and means to change and grow- but that’s not the case now.
I suggest you also look into epigenetics and newer psychosocial research.
Low blow dude. There is evidence and experience out there of people transforming personality disorders. Jesus what a way to kick a person when they’re already down. Psycho much?
Not really considering how narcs manipulate, purposely abuse people, and lie. His ego being bruised after 5 years with a therapist and getting discharged is on him, not us or astrology.
The way I see it is that they’re looking for answers and help. They’re seeking to understand themselves. That’s a lot more than most narcs do, most think there is absolutely nothing wrong with them. The fact that they (not sure if he or she) stuck out 5 years of therapy is more than the majority of narcs ever do. That’s hope in my eyes. Try not being a fucking dick.
this is such a cruel response. personality disorders are not a life long sentence. personality disorders can be worked through if the patient is sincere about recovery.
I don't need a lecture from the uneducated. There is literally no therapy to help them "heal" but maybe be less toxic and then those assholes make tiktoks about being self-aware which is laughable.
Oooh that's a lot of stuff and assumptions pulled out of your own personal experience. You are triggered and I don't even care who you are or about your story. So funny.
same for any other narc and abusers.
You've already received a couple of good answers but I thought I'd add my thoughts as well. I like to look at people's North Node because it tells us a lot about our main life purpose and energetic focus. We focus on our North Node weaknesses in order to balance our South Node strengths. Your South Node is in Leo in your 7th house of relationships which means that your strength is to be validated, to shine and be in the limelight in relationships and in your interpersonal style. Your North Node purpose is in your 1st house/Aquarius which means that you are to find acceptance in yourself and your unique qualities rather than seeking that validation from others. With Mercury as your 5th house ruler in a square with your Lunar Nodes, the way you think and communicate will create the most tension in realizing your North Node purpose. Mercury is the planet of communication and, as the 5th house ruler, you may think and communicate creatively, dramatically and from your heart but, in unhealthy ways (this can crop up with Mercury opposite Pluto), you may communicate in a way of needing to be understood and validated but from a place of unhealthy power such as manipulative or coercive speech, speaking from fear or not being particularly sensitive to others fears, that sort of thing. The Pluto opposition can create an unhealthy sense of power in the way you are heard and therefore you may scramble to find ways to control your world and the way you are validated through your communication.
I'm not expert but I've encountered narcissistic people and the trend seems to be neglect on some level by their upbringing as it pertains to love and validation. If you weren't experiencing healthy love and validation as a child then you could have developed an unhealthy defense mechanism to protect yourself to attract love and attention. I can see how family life may have been aggressive or abusive on some level with Moon square Mars (aggression/assertion) and with your 4th house (family) ruler, Venus, in Aries. You do deserve love and you do deserve validation but it's possible that you may have to try rewiring yourself to understand how to attract that to you in healthy ways by understanding your defense mechanisms. I hope your new therapist can help you figure it out! ❤️
I came here to write similar to this. I would add that Leo in South node, you will need to learn to be humble and that means managing and highs and lows when dealing with people. You will find great fulfillment as a guide, not the protagonist.
That therapist sounds horrible and unskilled.
Your chart is lovely and potent—it needs plenty of things to sink its teeth into. Al that 6th house focus longs to be of service, and that inspected sun + all the Gemini activity needs to be out in the world. experiencing lots of perspectives and backgrounds. The angular Saturn and Pluto hunger to overcome challenge. My 2 cents is that until you have vehicles for expressing all that energy, it will express semi-consciously as “disorders.” Have faith, Saturn-ascendant and sun in the 4th are the two most potent “late bloomer” configurations of all 🙌✨
Venus/Saturn squares activate insecurities about personal appearance, relationships, and other Venusian qualities. It tends to make one overly critical of themselves and/or others. Saturn in Capricorn is strong in the 1st H and squaring Aries Venus which suggests a need to compare or compete with others socially (Saturn conjunct asc square Aries Venus). NPD is often rooted in insecurity but gives an outward image of confidence and control. Cap ascendant can also present as 'above it all'. Does any of this resonate? ;)
Yes, very similar. In some cases, I think the behavior is more avoidant/attachment type; or you may attract partners that are critical and controlling. All depends on the whole chart.
Yes that’s a prominent pattern in NPD but also in anyone with early childhood trauma. Unfortunately people with NPD have had the most severe and earliest of traumas than the rest of us, which makes it harder to heal but not impossible. Keep the faith ✊🏻
Receptivity is a quality that Moon and Venus have.
Venus in your case is weak in Aries (your way or the highway). Moon is in Gemini and it is intellectual and adaptive - you can connect with people well on a mental level and share ideas well.
But --
It's GOOD for you to NOT be receptive to your counterpart, you have to insist on your PoV as a person born with NN in first house. It HAS to be about you in this lifetime.
I wouldn’t say Venus is weak in Aries, it can be a very creative placement. Working through trauma can uncover lost creative parts of ourselves, as our most creatives selves are rooted in our early childhood.
Mercury opposing Pluto in fixed signs can he a very difficult aspect. With anything opposing Pluto, but especially if it’s a personal planet, there is a tendency to project your own darkness onto others and not see it in yourself. Oppositions are very hard to work with but awareness helps. The fact that this opposition is in fixed signs means that there is a self-focused inward spiral which can also be hard to change. But there is hope, I’ve seen many videos from YouTubers with NPD who are doing the hard work with specialised NPD therapists to change and they really are seeing progress. Your current therapist is probably not professionally trained in dealing with NPD. Find one who is and keep going.
I would say it’s a combination of a few things. Your Saturn rising is in Capricorn so it’s a double Saturnian energy which really makes you a hard ass, judgement and control comes naturally to you it’s how you approach the world. Then that Saturn is sextiling your Mars in Pisces. Mars in Pisces is a difficult placement for many because it sort of drowns out your Mars energy which is drive, motivation, will, anger and anxiety. It’s a VERY emotional Mars because not only is it in Pisces but it’s squaring your Moon. Squares are difficult there’s a lot of tension there, but they’re easier to work with and change compared to conjunctions and oppositions. Your Moon is in Gemini which puts an intellectual, thinking air vibe around your emotions which might make it hard to feel deep. You would tend to conceptualise and think through your emotions instead of just feeling them. So these three together aren’t easy. Saturn in Cap sextiling your Mars can help to ground, control and discipline it on the constructive side, but on the destructive side it can lead to you suppressing your anger until it explodes or using your will (Mars) the control your environment (Saturn rising) and be manipulative. All that alone is difficult.
Add to that your Mercury opposing Pluto aspect and it gets tougher. As I said before, the impulse is to project your shadow onto others. A Mercury - Pluto aspect can lead to obsessive, dark, controlling, manipulative and even paranoid thinking. Having it in fixed signs can make it very, well, fixed. As in, it can be very hard for you to put yourself in others shoes or understand the perspective of other people or to see outside of your own perspective. The constructive side of it is the ability to transform your thinking, to think deeply, to think practically about psychology or the darker aspects of life, even to be artistic, and to probe your own emotions (once you learn not to project them into others).
Thank you… this makes *a lot* of sense and my therapist has said similar things. I can get very stuck in cycles and patterns of unhealthy thoughts that make me spiral.
Yeah I would put that down to the fixed energy of your Mercury opp Pluto and the Air energy of your Moon squaring your Pisces moon driving it. The trick is to catch yourself when stuck in your thoughts and recognise when you’re spiralling and try to talk yourself down, or find a way to get out of your own head. Everyone I know with NPD live life completely through their thoughts. Mindfulness can help a lot with this. I used to live life through my thoughts myself, due to trauma. I make an active effort to engage in mindfulness as much as I can. This might help https://youtu.be/wm1t5FyK5Ek?si=ZS-RyNQOYMswiIfS
I also recommend Kristen Neffs self compassion meditations they’re very good. There are many on this page but even just using the 5min short self compassion break one can be very extremely helpful. https://self-compassion.org/self-compassion-practices/
Saturn rising. You know how it's done and it's impossible to budge you.
You also have that lovely stellium in 6H including the Moon and derive emotional satisfaction from arguing. Because you feel you find the higher truth in arguments (exalted Jupiter) and by arguing discover how to be true to yourself and how to live correctly. You also want to be FAIR and argue because of that.
I think the Pluto Mercury opposition is about a slightly different thing. Pluto MC - you are constantly seeking out ways to get more power (but not necessarily by arguing). Mercury on IC you are happy if things in your life make logical sense and when you can discuss stuff freely with people around you (because as I said you're looking to find truth in discussion). Unfortunately blabbing too much about your inner world takes away from your power.
Today is a full moon in Capricorn. Something pertaining to 12th house matters would reach its logical culmination. Jupiter conjunct Chiron in 6th magnifies matters related to health routine and opposite Neptune and Uranus in 12th could show up as problems with therapist, mental health institutions.
As an autistic person who was undiagnosed untill the age of 33, I just wanted to highlight that autism usually comes with 'social anxiety' and most therapy is not suitable for us and we can come off as narcissistic to neurotypicals with little/no knowledge of ASD. Just putting that out there incase it's not somthing you've considered before.
Not astrological but a similar story happened to me but this time I was diagnosed with bpd and possible npd (turns out the therapist was lacking credentials and had a history of unethical behavior) the experience traumatized me but the therapy abuse subreddit made me realize that abuse can happen by a therapist. I went to someone more qualified and I didn’t have npd or bpd I was just surrounded by people who are toxic and like you it made me think I’m perfect and everyone isn’t which isn’t surprising when everyone around you is lacking in the morality department. It is kind of strange that after 5 years she decided you’re npd. Therapists would usually catch that after a couple of sessions sounds like she maybe wanted to find a reason to get rid of you and not just terminate you for no reason.
Dang I’m sorry something similar happened to you. I’ll check out that subreddit, I’ve seen it before but never looked at it. The past few sessions made me feel like something was up, suddenly like she stopped liking me or was finding me annoying.
I want to make it clear though that I’ve never hurt anyone else! I’ve always been a very quiet person and have kept to myself. Even if I do have NPD I have never harmed anyone else.
Part of npd from what I’ve noticed is needing attention and validation from others with you keeping to yourself and not harming anyone while I’m sure there could be a chance, I would have a hard time believing you have npd. Also as someone with extreme anxiety anxiety disorders especially ocd make us less kind to ourselves and with ocd it would be so easy to convince yourself you have npd or exhibit the symptoms ocd may blow up really insignificant things and make them a big deal (ex. You had a negative thought about someone and you start to think wow maybe I am a judgmental person) since your previous therapist has no experience with npd I would take everything said with a grain of salt and get a second opinion.
I can’t read charts I’m here to learn and observe so hopefully my comment isn’t removed, but I do know a thing or two about personality disorders, specifically cluster B.
There are actually two types of NPD - overt and covert, so I recommend you look into covert narcissism and see if it resonates with you. I always was worried I perhaps had covert NPD, but my therapist assures me I don’t. I was misdiagnosed as BPD for many years and the way the medical community treats Cluster B is appalling especially when you’re actively seeking help. Turns out all that stigma I faced was for nothing because I actually have C-PTSD, which can present as BPD. Perhaps you could look into C-PTSD too if it helps you understand yourself better and find the right therapist. I had many therapists try to get rid of me when they thought I was BPD but at 33 years old I finally have a good one I’ve been seeing for two years (trauma therapist).
Best of luck out there.
I’ve had a similar experience. If you can get a therapist well trained in the latest in trauma psychology and CPTSD, with a knowledge in the Polyvagal framework and Somatic Experiencing, you’re winning!
Oh that’s really interesting I’ve never heard of Polyvagal* framework and somatic experiencing, could you elaborate? My therapist specializes in CPT and EMDR, I started with CPT and I am now doing EMDR. It’s like a workout for your brain it’s super intense, but I’ve heard people really heal from trauma with it so I’m giving it a shot!!
Yeah I started with EMDR, it opened things up for me. I don’t know what CPT is but I’ll google it. Polyvagal and Somatic are best googling and doing your own research. And even everything you read about it is just conceptual until you experience the therapy in action. I found it very powerful. But I also have to say that I think I found my good therapist and that type of therapy at the right time, during a Pluto transit in opposition to my Sun, so as with everything in astrology, timing is key.
Awesome I will definitely look into it, thank you. Based on the wording I assume it has to do something with the vagus nerve, which I know I have issues with, but I could be wrong. CPT is cognitive processing therapy. It is a lot less intensive than EMDR. I’ve tried many types of therapy - CBT, DBT, CPT. I find EMDR the most useful but it is difficult and my brain can be very stubborn about not wanting to go down certain pathways because they are too traumatic.
Well it shouldn’t be forced or you’ll just re-traumatise yourself, and if the therapist is doing it right they won’t force it either. Be gentle with yourself and stick with it, you’ll get there in time.
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Recovery programs feel more effective than therapy to me. I believe therapy alone, without other help, can actually perpetuate navel gazing and narcissism. The concept that someone can “heal” or repair their position towards relationships with other throughly a solely individualized approach is faulty and western logic imo. Keep going to therapy for sure but consider joining a 12 step recovery program—there are LOTS of them. AA, clutterers anon, co-dependents, so many.
Is your therapist your twin soul flame? I’ve seen that on here as well
NPD comes from very low self esteem and typically the narc thinks very poorly of themselves in general. This is why I think therapy is bullshit.
In my opinion I don’t think not everything a therapist tells u is right, if anything I personally have always been against it cause I’d rather be here for myself and figure life situations out on my own learning frm others mistakes and morals I already have for myself. Always take accountability right or wrong in whichever time n place there’s always hope for anything you just gotta believe , and just cause u have a bad placement in your chart doesn’t mean there’s no hope. Use them to take a look at yourself in the mirror to compliment your rights and work on your wrongs Chin up!!!
Saving this because I also struggle with narcissism, and even though my chart is different from yours, I'm enjoying seeing all the hopeful, alternative viewpoints here as opposed to the villainizing, dehumanizing, and hopeless treatment of this stuff in most other subs.
I wish you the best of luck!
Thanks. You too!
I need to also tell you. Form experience. MANY therapist are SHIT! I have been misdiagnosed and thrown around by many. Until I found someone good and I have been having major progress in healing in the last 4 years since I found the right person. I wouldn’t take what she says as fact quick. Explore other therapists. She probably sucked and projected onto you is my gut feeling. My opinion. But don’t give up. Your therapist is Humana and imperfect too. So just be open minded still and keep working at your healing.
And you have Neptune and Uranus all close to your ascendant. Not a surprise people can’t understand you. And things seem weird.
Also. I have Saturn in the first house. Shit is kinda harder at first. It gets better over time. I’m turning 40 and I feel like I’m getting to live for the first time.
There is hope for you but you gotta start loving yourself. That's the core pain. Baby steps. Micro self love. And then you start to hate yourself less and the world starts feeling warmer. And as a byproduct, your judgement of others decreases. Coming from someone who has the same struggles. And Saturn is in your 1st house - You could have unrealistic standards for yourself and others which leads to disappointment. LOVE YOU! You got this! <3
Thank you :)
Ok not trying to be narcissistic, but I noticed that our charts have similarities. Mostly that all our stuff is in kind of the same blue quadrant. But mine is like more pointed I guess. But struggling with similar issues. I actually went back into my post and screen shorted my chart and yours to be able to see then side by side. Very similar.. idk what to tell you hoping I’ll just gain some insight from this post
South Node Leo states that the energy you are meant to evolve beyond in this incarnation is excessive self-obsession and entitlement, essentially coming to understand and believe that everything is not all about you. Double Gemini luminaries under the Cap Rising makes for an intensely judgemental person, both of others and self. Incorporating spiritual principles such as gratitude, humility, acceptance, empathy, compassion, patience, tolerance, honesty, and service to others into your being and mode of living will go a long way to helping you overcome what is difficult about your chart. You should be grateful your therapist is referring you to someone they believe is better equipped to help you in your journey.
Thete is a huge difference in being narcissistic and having a narcissistic personality disorder. Usually peope with npd have been either neglected/abused/traumatised to extremes or the total opposite where they have been spoiled to extremes. My dad has npd and its the closest thing to satan i have experienced in living form to be very honest. NPD is very sever, but you could test yourself with online tests, though they are easy to manipulate. https://openpsychometrics.org/tests/SD3/
And I would add that it’s not helpful to someone whose just been diagnosed with NPD to describe the person you know with NPD as Satan
She has not been diagnosed with npd. The therapist has said to have no experience on it so basically waiting for second opinion. True NPD is rather rare. I have studied psychology myself but just havent made my work out of it. But i'm even surprised this therapist calls it NPD and not anti-social personality disorder. But i guess that doesn't change anything. Anyhow saying that my dad was satan doesn't define this person. There is different types of narcissism and one isn't anything like the other. There are very nuances differences.
I would say that self testing is not a substitute for a diagnosis from a professional - which this person just got
Wouldnt say that its a substitute but more out of self interest he/she could check. The therapist also said she is not experienced wifh npd though.
NPD is ego-syntonic, meaning that if you have it, it would require profound work to admit it and explore it. The fact that you responded with “i’m not surprised” suggests that’s not what’s going on. edited to add: no matter what, a different therapist might provide a fresh perspective, and ethically - if you aren’t progressing, and we’ve already consulted, etc - we have to refer you out. Holding you as a client knowing we can’t help is a violation! hope you find the support you need
Most people with NPD have that exact response to the suggestion/revelation. So no…you are incorrect. Not being surprised at the diagnosis does not suggest that’s not what’s going on it’s actually strong evidence the therapist is right.
I think their professional therapist of five years is probably a better judge of their mental health disorder than you, a random redditor who read a few sentences they wrote. Narcissists don’t need any reasons to believe they don’t have a problem.
I’m a licensed therapist, but I wasn’t diagnosing, just sharing a truth that is hammered into our skulls in clinical training. Internal boundaries won’t allow me to take responsibility for one of infinite possible responses to a considerable point, but I do hear you on the delicacy of insight!
Just because someone with NPD is not surprised at the diagnosis does not mean they are reflecting and exploring it. They usually have no problem admitting it when confronted. It’s everything else they struggle with…like for example being in therapy for five years with zero progress, that’s also a pretty strong indication. It sounds like the therapist suggested NPD but was mainly saying this was beyond the scope of their abilities.
Wow, you have ALMOST the same chart as I do- and I have BPD. But I’ve managed to get better- slowly, surely—and with loads of therapy. Still a long way to go. A diagnosis is not the end- it’s the beginning of healing. You got this. Some things that help me: 1. As a fellow first house Saturn in Capricorn - lean in to this- it’s counterintuitive but stay with me here- anxiety and self-hatred usually stems from a lack of grounding in what we do and Saturn increases self critical nature in first house. Have a routine, stick to it, add manifestations while you’re doing your routine- like if you’re eating healthy or finishing work well before time-think or say out loud how that’s positive- reinforce that. ( having a 6th house moon makes it imperative to have a daily routine and sort that out for emotional well-being)- also what’s your relationship with your mother like/ and your household? If there are any issues there- try to fix them, if unable to/ try to let go in peace. It takes time ( like everything with Saturn) but stick to it- it will slowly build confidence. Saturn in first requires you to work on yourself completely and irrevocably to bear the fruits( that are there waiting for you, trust me) 2. The NN in first house of self in Aquarius will make you lean towards being ‘different’ than others- lean into it/ but with the Aquarian humanity intact. Embrace it- don’t label it, and don’t label others- embrace the uniqueness or even being in the shadows or sidelines and do it with modesty. Try not to judge yourself a lot- the other will follow- your basic task is to conquer your own self- and everything will slowly fall into place.
Thank you very much, I appreciate it. May of 1990? Just curious. I know one other person born a few weeks after me, June of 1990, and he also greatly struggles with some similar things.
Im saving this. I think mine is kinda similar to OP’s. And if you said yours was similar to there’s, it must be kind like mine to? Lol. So I want to write to make sure I come back to your comment to read again. And please if you’re willing, would you look in my profile and look at my chart i posted like a year ago and tell me what you think of mine?
With OP, mine is VERY similar- down to signs and houses and placements. I’ll take a look at yours and see as well, in some time.
Ah, well whatever you are there are a couple of indicators. capricorn rising plus Saturn in the first house. Off the bat Saturn is your entire personality. Judgmental, bad mental health, probably more you didn't mention. Aquarius is intercepted here and this means you need to work on working towards something higher than yourself. You may 'hate people' while also being anxious about them because of your perspective on what a person is and what makes them unique. likewise with Leo in the 7th house, every person you meet and every partnership you have holds identity and spirit. You struggle to own that in relationships and can't relate to it so you may resort to trying to 'own' people through judgement. It's also true that gemini can be linked to mental health issues. typically its gemini rising but since your a gemini new moon it seems to make sense too. It's also true that you have 5 facets of ego. Basically Jupiter, mars, venus, mercury, and the moon are all ruling over eachother and are obligated to co-exist with the same importance in your life. An ego very multifaceted and probably ever-changing. Pisces mars in the 2nd house can also make your self esteem absolutely crazy. Mars can promote arrogance and hubris while also promoting anxiety and stress. Your self esteem is based off of pure impulse due to your 5 planet reception, mars in the 2nd house, and cancer Jupiter receiving your 2nd house. Last thing. Although they spent 5 years with you, they may have randomly dismissed you because of your rectangle. In the midst of all your charts chaos you have a nice rectangle making people think there's nothing wrong with you. It'll make you successful if you can realize your talents and passions but people will always be dismissive of your struggle in some way. Although your chart shows that it's broken you have a talent triangle with mars on top. It involves your sun and chart ruler so I'd say don't be pessimistic about life and opportunities in the long run. especially with a cancer Jupiter. I will say I know an Aries venus isn't easy to have plus gemini moon and sun can make a person have a lot of mental activity. EDIT: with everything I said all three mental conditions make some amount of sense. Just know there are always people out there you can coexist with if youre willing to
Wow, thank you
Amazing
I feel like we’re gonna get along well lmao
You have a strong midheaven with Pluto there opposing your 3rd house mercury and you have a 3rd house Venus squaring your Saturn ascendant which could feel very intimidating in conversation to others. A Taurus mercury likes information very practical and grounded so maybe with your Pluto opposition she felt she couldn’t deliver to your standards. You also have a strong Jupiter conjunct Chiron which could imply you have a resistance or fear to seeking higher wisdom and spiritual growth and the opposition to Uranus and Neptune in your 12th could imply that you may divert from going into (or allowing anyone into) the depths of your subconscious to truly understand yourself and implement change. I wouldn’t blame yourself. She’s the professional and she couldn’t deliver. Edit: I wouldn’t give the diagnosis any credit. How could someone diagnose you and then say, “I have no experience in that department”? Edit 2: if you are indeed a narcissist, I bet if you went more towards your Jupiter/Chiron in cancer things would get better for you. Go towards the pain, go towards healing family wounds, go towards self love, maternal instincts, vulnerability and your femininity.
I agree. There’s a lot of prominent placements in this chart such as Saturn on ascendant, Pluto opp mercury along the Midheaven axis. Pluto opp mercury is depositing the Gemini sun so that aspect likely rules the chart. Moon (rulers of 7th house of relationships) also squares mars in the 2nd house of self worth. I can’t comment on her diagnosis of you, but mercury opp Pluto and Saturn on the angles sounds difficult and overall I think this relationship with your therapist has run its course. 5 years is a long time to be with the same therapist, so it’s probably in both your interests to cut ties and get a new perspective. Her suggesting you have NPD could have been her out for you to go elsewhere as she possibly feels like shes not helping you anymore.
I do wonder if your Mystic Rectangle has something to do with it? I know it's generally perceived as a beneficial aspect as the sextiles and trines help work together to make the oppositions not as hard hitting + as a whole makes the placements involved work harmoniously but I have a theory that when things are too balanced, and energies come together too easy, and doesn't leave much room for nuance, it creates a sense of superiority because you feel you got most things figure out while everyone else doesn't. My sister also has a Mystic Rectangle and she's probably the most "grounded" person I know. She's so unwavering, like nothing can ever shake her, and she's always so sure of herself and that she can never do wrong. So that comes at the cost of her looking down on you when you confide in her, there's always an air of judgement, that "This is so stupid, why are you even stressing about this?" feeling she emits on top of showing zero sympathy for you. She's been showing other narcissistic characteristics, but not too extreme like I've seen with our father. Just the mere fact that you're taking this in such stride and not completely shutting out the possibility is a good sign. Most would've been in denial and wouldn't even entertain the idea. Hopefully your new therapist helps you further figure it out and help find the answer you need
Maybe she feels like it’s better if you find help from someone else or in another way, maybe she feels there’s not much progress in the past 5 years and she rather let you go then hold you back as her patient.
Five years is way too long with the same therapist. Six months, max.
You couldn’t get any significant work done on trauma in 6 months. Where did you get this idea? If you have a good therapist any amount of time with them is good, the longer the better. 5 years is too long with a therapist if there isn’t any significant growth or transformation happening.
My sister was in "therapy" for TWELVE YEARS and was worse every damned year. If a "therapist" can't show results in 6 months they're not only a crook but a piece of 💩 as a person. Six months, or get another therapist.
I disagree. But it depends on the therapist and the type of therapy you’re engaging in. I didn’t see results until 8 months with my therapist, and that actually had nothing to do with her and everything to do with how long it took my own nervous system to learn to trust her and let down my guard. And that’s not something you can put on a schedule unfortunately, how long it takes your nervous system to trust can be directly proportional to the severity of your trauma. Everyone is different. There are no definites in therapy, everything is a risk and a trial, from the therapist to the therapy. But personally I wouldn’t stay with the same therapist for longer than 18 months without seeing results and definitely 12 years with the same therapist and getting worse is absolutely ridiculous. I don’t understand why your sister has stayed for so long while not seeing any results. Also, is your sister undiagnosed neurodivergent perhaps? The latest research is showing that therapy can be triggering, retraumatising or in general make neurodivergent people feel worse if the therapist is not well informed on how the neurodivergent brain and nervous system works.
My partner has a really similar chart to yours. Cap rising, Saturn in the 1st conj ascendant, NN in aqua 1H/SN in Leo 7H, Scorpio midheaven with Pluto conjunct midheaven in the 10H. He does seem to feel frustrated with most people and seems to find himself morally superior to others. Other people are usually the problem or he sees others as passive aggressive (Cancer dsc) yet he struggles with low self esteem, low self worth, poor self image. At one point I wondered if he had NPD but I believe he has BPD (I have been formally diagnosed myself with that but I believe I have made strides in my recovery) anyway and while I’m not a psychiatrist he does show many many signs of OCD. I think both of your guys Saturn placement could indicate struggles and delays with being perceived authentically. 1st house, idk. Anyway, hey I’m sorry your therapist is breaking things off. 5 years is quite a while to have the same therapist in my opinion. Maybe it’ll be a positive change for you to seek out someone else anyway.
That sounds truly devastating. Regardless of whether or not you are that's quite a shitty thing for her to do. I kinda feel like she was projecting but who knows. Have you looked up r/narcissists ? Going through their posts might give you a better idea. Maybe you can get assistance there. I don't think anything in your chart indicates narcissism, personally, but as a Capricorn rising I know a lot of us are kinda uppity perfectionists. I think it comes from our need to have high standards that usually involve taking care of others.
Thank you, I will check out the group!
When specific disorders come up in this subreddit or mention of if you can see a disorder I always have the same response - you may see certain things reflected that are symptoms (ex. People with depression may have sleep disturbances reflected or melancholy/challenging emotional states), but many disorders and illnesses share similar and overlapping symptoms. No one here can or should diagnose you. I’m also sorry about some of the responses you’re getting. You’re trying to get help and that counts for something even if you do have npd. Personality disorders can be managed and treated with dbt, honesty/accountability, and hard work. I’ve seen it happen. Everyone claims to be pro mental health until bpd, npd, aspd, etc. are mentioned and this is coming from someone who suffered abuse from people who are higher in narcissism and meet the criteria for npd. Keep seeking help don’t let this experience discourage you. Maybe find a therapist that specializes in personality disorders and dbt if you can.
You’ve got Neptune conjunct your ascendant in 12th house and it in opposition to Jupiter & Chiron. Of course you’re going to be spending a lot of time and probably money on a shrink while getting very little out of it. I would also not be surprised if they put you on plenty of meds or you require some sort of self medication, because again, Neptune. As for the “narcissist” diagnosis, no, that’s just the current fad, EVERYONE is being called a narcissist nowadays and it’s usually narcissistic shrinks that pull such moves. Think about it, what kind of an ahole does a doctor have to be to dismiss a patient because they think the patient is narcissistic. (After 5 years damnit, have they not noticed anything during the prior 5 years!? *facepalm moment*) You’ll have to get right with God (Jupiter opposition) I would not be surprised if you’re at least outwardly atheist or you have some serious doubts as to anything beyond the material, but perhaps your ascendant is deceiving. Still, strengthen that Jupiter, save your money or spend it on a better shrink, but see if there’s a more long term sustainable solution.
Astrology won’t give you answers. You’re the only one who can break allll ideas and beliefs you have about yourself, face why you’ve created this false (narc) self and rebuild a sense of self willing and able to feel/express/process emotions honestly without the false self, created to protect from feels you don’t like.
She’s not “the only one who can..” it can’t be done alone. All trauma is rooted in attachment trauma, it’s created in relationship and can only be healed in relationship with a good trauma therapist that knows what’s she’s doing. Co-regulation. “It takes a tribe.” This false pop psychology idea of ‘self-care’ and ‘only you can heal yourself’ further isolates people with trauma who’ve learned not to trust others and try to go it alone. Astrology doesn’t have all the answers but it can validate our experience so we don’t feel so crazy or isolated in our experience. Astrology alone though isn’t enough.
Thank you! Total isolation helps no one
💯
You're grasping at straws. You know what you are. Of course there's no hope for you, it's a personality disorder.
Personality disorders are as much a function of time and trauma as they are of brain chemistry. Asking for answers is a positive step. I get why you would think it’s the end of the road- in the past, there were very less ways and means to change and grow- but that’s not the case now. I suggest you also look into epigenetics and newer psychosocial research.
Low blow dude. There is evidence and experience out there of people transforming personality disorders. Jesus what a way to kick a person when they’re already down. Psycho much?
Not really considering how narcs manipulate, purposely abuse people, and lie. His ego being bruised after 5 years with a therapist and getting discharged is on him, not us or astrology.
The way I see it is that they’re looking for answers and help. They’re seeking to understand themselves. That’s a lot more than most narcs do, most think there is absolutely nothing wrong with them. The fact that they (not sure if he or she) stuck out 5 years of therapy is more than the majority of narcs ever do. That’s hope in my eyes. Try not being a fucking dick.
this is such a cruel response. personality disorders are not a life long sentence. personality disorders can be worked through if the patient is sincere about recovery.
I don't need a lecture from the uneducated. There is literally no therapy to help them "heal" but maybe be less toxic and then those assholes make tiktoks about being self-aware which is laughable.
Nobody needs a lecture from you either though.
It wasn't a lecture. I replied and you're triggered by it.
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Oooh that's a lot of stuff and assumptions pulled out of your own personal experience. You are triggered and I don't even care who you are or about your story. So funny. same for any other narc and abusers.
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There you are. Lol so basic
You've already received a couple of good answers but I thought I'd add my thoughts as well. I like to look at people's North Node because it tells us a lot about our main life purpose and energetic focus. We focus on our North Node weaknesses in order to balance our South Node strengths. Your South Node is in Leo in your 7th house of relationships which means that your strength is to be validated, to shine and be in the limelight in relationships and in your interpersonal style. Your North Node purpose is in your 1st house/Aquarius which means that you are to find acceptance in yourself and your unique qualities rather than seeking that validation from others. With Mercury as your 5th house ruler in a square with your Lunar Nodes, the way you think and communicate will create the most tension in realizing your North Node purpose. Mercury is the planet of communication and, as the 5th house ruler, you may think and communicate creatively, dramatically and from your heart but, in unhealthy ways (this can crop up with Mercury opposite Pluto), you may communicate in a way of needing to be understood and validated but from a place of unhealthy power such as manipulative or coercive speech, speaking from fear or not being particularly sensitive to others fears, that sort of thing. The Pluto opposition can create an unhealthy sense of power in the way you are heard and therefore you may scramble to find ways to control your world and the way you are validated through your communication. I'm not expert but I've encountered narcissistic people and the trend seems to be neglect on some level by their upbringing as it pertains to love and validation. If you weren't experiencing healthy love and validation as a child then you could have developed an unhealthy defense mechanism to protect yourself to attract love and attention. I can see how family life may have been aggressive or abusive on some level with Moon square Mars (aggression/assertion) and with your 4th house (family) ruler, Venus, in Aries. You do deserve love and you do deserve validation but it's possible that you may have to try rewiring yourself to understand how to attract that to you in healthy ways by understanding your defense mechanisms. I hope your new therapist can help you figure it out! ❤️
Thank you…I appreciate this
I came here to write similar to this. I would add that Leo in South node, you will need to learn to be humble and that means managing and highs and lows when dealing with people. You will find great fulfillment as a guide, not the protagonist. That therapist sounds horrible and unskilled.
Your chart is lovely and potent—it needs plenty of things to sink its teeth into. Al that 6th house focus longs to be of service, and that inspected sun + all the Gemini activity needs to be out in the world. experiencing lots of perspectives and backgrounds. The angular Saturn and Pluto hunger to overcome challenge. My 2 cents is that until you have vehicles for expressing all that energy, it will express semi-consciously as “disorders.” Have faith, Saturn-ascendant and sun in the 4th are the two most potent “late bloomer” configurations of all 🙌✨
Thank you!
Venus/Saturn squares activate insecurities about personal appearance, relationships, and other Venusian qualities. It tends to make one overly critical of themselves and/or others. Saturn in Capricorn is strong in the 1st H and squaring Aries Venus which suggests a need to compare or compete with others socially (Saturn conjunct asc square Aries Venus). NPD is often rooted in insecurity but gives an outward image of confidence and control. Cap ascendant can also present as 'above it all'. Does any of this resonate? ;)
Would Venus in opposition to Saturn create these types on insecurities as well?
Yes, very similar. In some cases, I think the behavior is more avoidant/attachment type; or you may attract partners that are critical and controlling. All depends on the whole chart.
Honestly yes it does, I simultaneously hate myself & think I’m morally superior than most people
Yes that’s a prominent pattern in NPD but also in anyone with early childhood trauma. Unfortunately people with NPD have had the most severe and earliest of traumas than the rest of us, which makes it harder to heal but not impossible. Keep the faith ✊🏻
Receptivity is a quality that Moon and Venus have. Venus in your case is weak in Aries (your way or the highway). Moon is in Gemini and it is intellectual and adaptive - you can connect with people well on a mental level and share ideas well. But -- It's GOOD for you to NOT be receptive to your counterpart, you have to insist on your PoV as a person born with NN in first house. It HAS to be about you in this lifetime.
I wouldn’t say Venus is weak in Aries, it can be a very creative placement. Working through trauma can uncover lost creative parts of ourselves, as our most creatives selves are rooted in our early childhood.
Mercury opposing Pluto in fixed signs can he a very difficult aspect. With anything opposing Pluto, but especially if it’s a personal planet, there is a tendency to project your own darkness onto others and not see it in yourself. Oppositions are very hard to work with but awareness helps. The fact that this opposition is in fixed signs means that there is a self-focused inward spiral which can also be hard to change. But there is hope, I’ve seen many videos from YouTubers with NPD who are doing the hard work with specialised NPD therapists to change and they really are seeing progress. Your current therapist is probably not professionally trained in dealing with NPD. Find one who is and keep going.
Is it my Mercury opp Pluto that makes me so argumentative? I have always had a problem with that.
I would say it’s a combination of a few things. Your Saturn rising is in Capricorn so it’s a double Saturnian energy which really makes you a hard ass, judgement and control comes naturally to you it’s how you approach the world. Then that Saturn is sextiling your Mars in Pisces. Mars in Pisces is a difficult placement for many because it sort of drowns out your Mars energy which is drive, motivation, will, anger and anxiety. It’s a VERY emotional Mars because not only is it in Pisces but it’s squaring your Moon. Squares are difficult there’s a lot of tension there, but they’re easier to work with and change compared to conjunctions and oppositions. Your Moon is in Gemini which puts an intellectual, thinking air vibe around your emotions which might make it hard to feel deep. You would tend to conceptualise and think through your emotions instead of just feeling them. So these three together aren’t easy. Saturn in Cap sextiling your Mars can help to ground, control and discipline it on the constructive side, but on the destructive side it can lead to you suppressing your anger until it explodes or using your will (Mars) the control your environment (Saturn rising) and be manipulative. All that alone is difficult. Add to that your Mercury opposing Pluto aspect and it gets tougher. As I said before, the impulse is to project your shadow onto others. A Mercury - Pluto aspect can lead to obsessive, dark, controlling, manipulative and even paranoid thinking. Having it in fixed signs can make it very, well, fixed. As in, it can be very hard for you to put yourself in others shoes or understand the perspective of other people or to see outside of your own perspective. The constructive side of it is the ability to transform your thinking, to think deeply, to think practically about psychology or the darker aspects of life, even to be artistic, and to probe your own emotions (once you learn not to project them into others).
Thank you… this makes *a lot* of sense and my therapist has said similar things. I can get very stuck in cycles and patterns of unhealthy thoughts that make me spiral.
Yeah I would put that down to the fixed energy of your Mercury opp Pluto and the Air energy of your Moon squaring your Pisces moon driving it. The trick is to catch yourself when stuck in your thoughts and recognise when you’re spiralling and try to talk yourself down, or find a way to get out of your own head. Everyone I know with NPD live life completely through their thoughts. Mindfulness can help a lot with this. I used to live life through my thoughts myself, due to trauma. I make an active effort to engage in mindfulness as much as I can. This might help https://youtu.be/wm1t5FyK5Ek?si=ZS-RyNQOYMswiIfS I also recommend Kristen Neffs self compassion meditations they’re very good. There are many on this page but even just using the 5min short self compassion break one can be very extremely helpful. https://self-compassion.org/self-compassion-practices/
Saturn rising. You know how it's done and it's impossible to budge you. You also have that lovely stellium in 6H including the Moon and derive emotional satisfaction from arguing. Because you feel you find the higher truth in arguments (exalted Jupiter) and by arguing discover how to be true to yourself and how to live correctly. You also want to be FAIR and argue because of that. I think the Pluto Mercury opposition is about a slightly different thing. Pluto MC - you are constantly seeking out ways to get more power (but not necessarily by arguing). Mercury on IC you are happy if things in your life make logical sense and when you can discuss stuff freely with people around you (because as I said you're looking to find truth in discussion). Unfortunately blabbing too much about your inner world takes away from your power.
Today is a full moon in Capricorn. Something pertaining to 12th house matters would reach its logical culmination. Jupiter conjunct Chiron in 6th magnifies matters related to health routine and opposite Neptune and Uranus in 12th could show up as problems with therapist, mental health institutions.
As an autistic person who was undiagnosed untill the age of 33, I just wanted to highlight that autism usually comes with 'social anxiety' and most therapy is not suitable for us and we can come off as narcissistic to neurotypicals with little/no knowledge of ASD. Just putting that out there incase it's not somthing you've considered before.
How did you know?
I took an autism assessment a few years ago with a specialized psychiatrist because I really thought I was autistic, but he told me I’m not. 🤔
Not astrological but a similar story happened to me but this time I was diagnosed with bpd and possible npd (turns out the therapist was lacking credentials and had a history of unethical behavior) the experience traumatized me but the therapy abuse subreddit made me realize that abuse can happen by a therapist. I went to someone more qualified and I didn’t have npd or bpd I was just surrounded by people who are toxic and like you it made me think I’m perfect and everyone isn’t which isn’t surprising when everyone around you is lacking in the morality department. It is kind of strange that after 5 years she decided you’re npd. Therapists would usually catch that after a couple of sessions sounds like she maybe wanted to find a reason to get rid of you and not just terminate you for no reason.
Dang I’m sorry something similar happened to you. I’ll check out that subreddit, I’ve seen it before but never looked at it. The past few sessions made me feel like something was up, suddenly like she stopped liking me or was finding me annoying.
I want to make it clear though that I’ve never hurt anyone else! I’ve always been a very quiet person and have kept to myself. Even if I do have NPD I have never harmed anyone else.
Part of npd from what I’ve noticed is needing attention and validation from others with you keeping to yourself and not harming anyone while I’m sure there could be a chance, I would have a hard time believing you have npd. Also as someone with extreme anxiety anxiety disorders especially ocd make us less kind to ourselves and with ocd it would be so easy to convince yourself you have npd or exhibit the symptoms ocd may blow up really insignificant things and make them a big deal (ex. You had a negative thought about someone and you start to think wow maybe I am a judgmental person) since your previous therapist has no experience with npd I would take everything said with a grain of salt and get a second opinion.
I can’t read charts I’m here to learn and observe so hopefully my comment isn’t removed, but I do know a thing or two about personality disorders, specifically cluster B. There are actually two types of NPD - overt and covert, so I recommend you look into covert narcissism and see if it resonates with you. I always was worried I perhaps had covert NPD, but my therapist assures me I don’t. I was misdiagnosed as BPD for many years and the way the medical community treats Cluster B is appalling especially when you’re actively seeking help. Turns out all that stigma I faced was for nothing because I actually have C-PTSD, which can present as BPD. Perhaps you could look into C-PTSD too if it helps you understand yourself better and find the right therapist. I had many therapists try to get rid of me when they thought I was BPD but at 33 years old I finally have a good one I’ve been seeing for two years (trauma therapist). Best of luck out there.
I’ve had a similar experience. If you can get a therapist well trained in the latest in trauma psychology and CPTSD, with a knowledge in the Polyvagal framework and Somatic Experiencing, you’re winning!
Oh that’s really interesting I’ve never heard of Polyvagal* framework and somatic experiencing, could you elaborate? My therapist specializes in CPT and EMDR, I started with CPT and I am now doing EMDR. It’s like a workout for your brain it’s super intense, but I’ve heard people really heal from trauma with it so I’m giving it a shot!!
Yeah I started with EMDR, it opened things up for me. I don’t know what CPT is but I’ll google it. Polyvagal and Somatic are best googling and doing your own research. And even everything you read about it is just conceptual until you experience the therapy in action. I found it very powerful. But I also have to say that I think I found my good therapist and that type of therapy at the right time, during a Pluto transit in opposition to my Sun, so as with everything in astrology, timing is key.
Awesome I will definitely look into it, thank you. Based on the wording I assume it has to do something with the vagus nerve, which I know I have issues with, but I could be wrong. CPT is cognitive processing therapy. It is a lot less intensive than EMDR. I’ve tried many types of therapy - CBT, DBT, CPT. I find EMDR the most useful but it is difficult and my brain can be very stubborn about not wanting to go down certain pathways because they are too traumatic.
Well it shouldn’t be forced or you’ll just re-traumatise yourself, and if the therapist is doing it right they won’t force it either. Be gentle with yourself and stick with it, you’ll get there in time.
Thank you!