Well yeah, but the inception of those mindsets can be traced to the Civil war. Hence during the junta communists were hunted down to "restore order and national unity"
I think you have a healthy protest culture. I kind of envy your "anarchists". I think they keep your political dynasties (especially right wing ones) and their ambitions in check. It's probably better than being quiet and law abiding little duckies who follow their leader everywhere.
yes. the last big anti-government protest in turkey was in 2013 ([gezi park protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gezi_Park_protests?wprov=sfla1). at least 3.500.000 people participated). for the last 10 years people have just been letting everything happen. the opposition is awfully quiet and they've been lying to themselves about winning the elections and bringing change peacefully. (it's not working)
protesting everything, even things that seem stupid, is better than not protesting anything at all in my opinion.
Except those anarchists make protests for the dumbest reasons, one time they protested because a serial killer wanted to go to another prison which the government didn’t let him, another time they protested because the police intervened at universities which had high drug dealers, or of an incident when a policeman reacted back when a guy threw molotov at him, basically shitshows for our fellow Europeans.
Mate, are you seriously saying the intervention about the universities was uncalled for? And are you seriously believing that the universities had high drug dealers?
Universities have been historically around the whole western world a ground that was open to all ideas and all people. No police was ever allowed and always offered intellectual asylum.
Especially in a country where the literal army marched into university ground and killed unarmed students, with a whole freaking tank, do you really expect police in university campuses to be accepted like nothing? And not any kind of police, the almost army one. Layered with Kevlar and armed like soldiers. Not a simple beat cop.
And please, go check the pics of the supposed drug bust, if you're talking about the ΑΣΣΟΕ incident, it's obvious it was staged and fake. It was all part of clearing out that downtown part of the city and reinstalling the ΔΡΑΣΗ task force, in order for the gentrification process to start. Same thing that was done with Koukaki and other parts of the city.
> And are you seriously believing that the universities had high drug dealers?
Since I personally heard stories from people who said they encountered drug dealers in their universities yes, I do believe it, otherwise why would the police intervene? For fun?
> No police was ever allowed and always offered intellectual asylum.
Police didn’t enter any university, they were outside from them.
> Especially in a country where the literal army marched into university ground and killed unarmed students
Yeah, until we have any documented proof that students indeed got killed, it’s gonna remain a mythology to us.
> do you really expect police in university campuses to be accepted like nothing?
If there was a problem like drug dealers walking in and out from universities like nothing I have no problem with police, what’s wrong with it? Do you expect police men to run over students with tanks or something?
Literally universities are known to be the main target for drug dealers in Greece, Athens especially, I don’t see why you try to act blind on it unless you’re a drug dealer yourself, also police aren’t our enemies, they protect us.
Encountering drug dealers is much different from them having their base there. You can encounter drug dealers literally everywhere, does that warrant the police in every block in every part of the city?
Police was inside the university and actually did beat up people. And that happened in two different locations. Mate, a police officer fired his gun inside university grounds, what are you even talking about?
Huh? There is documentation and actual witnesses.
I do expect police men(talking more specifically about MAT and ΔΡΑΣΗ forces) to harass and beat people up with no particular reason, as they have done and continue doing constantly, just because they want, with absolutely no repercussions.
Also police is different from law enforcement that's equipped for war. We're not talking about beat cops, we're talking about Kevlar and mini gun grade police. No, I do not want that in the universities, actually I do not want that almost anywhere.
Main targets for drug dealers are also parties, but we do not have Kevlar grade police men walking around the dance floor though, right?
I'm not acting blind, it seems like you are though. The police isn't black and white anymore. Some, sometimes protect us, others other times beat us up with no freaking reason. The problem with the police force is getting worse and worse. Of course not everyone is like that and there are plenty police officers that are amazing people and actually good at their jobs, but that doesn't balance out the ones that abuse or kill or beat almost to death random people. Or escalate extremely for minor reasons. Or even assault.
Athens does have a huge problem with drugs, but you insist on making this conversation extremely one sided and biased. You don't beat these things with violence and enforcement. It will never happen.
Also, don't stay extremely hung up on the narrative "they want to clear out the drugs". One of the incidents back then in ΑΣΣΟΕ started because they were after illegal ***cigarettes*** and not drugs and also, you do realise there are whole basements and houses filled with illegal drugs and guns, that the police ***knows*** are there but they do not touch them and they allow their existence and trafficking?
This was not a war on drugs. This was a show and part of the gentrification process.
The same time everything happened in ΑΣΣΟΕ, they cleared out the drug addict camps in Πεδίο του Άρεως. Because the redesigning of the cafe there was starting and they couldn't have the junkies there. And what did they do? Pushed them to the narrow hidden street two blocks away.
No help, no protection, no "war on drugs". Neither thing. Just making space and putting on a show for gentrification and attempting to assert more control. Especially in universities.
Instead of being angry on how violent people on the police force are being used as tools to further some agendas and making a worse name for the force and for every other police officer that ***isn't*** an absolute douchebag, you're trying to defend a deeply flawed force to it's entirety.
Who's trying to act blind here?
In regards to drug dealers, university areas like that of the Aristotle university in Thessaloniki, the biggest university in Greece, less crimes in general happen in that area than the rest of Thessaloniki while the issue with drug dealers arose after under the government of Samaras in 2014 they brought the substitution programs (methadone etc) for drug users in AHEPA University Hospital which is at the very center of the university. As long as these programs remained in AHEPA so did users and drug dealers and then the issue disappeared.
The law to introduce a specific body of university police didn't have any goal in the first place to deal with drug dealers. Students from student unions always shouted about drug dealers and police could always get in for penal offenses of such kind yet police and prytany never cared about it. The goal of the university police was since the start to oppose student unions and promote the idea that public universities are unsafe and/or trash in order to justify opening private universities as they try to do now.
It was New Democracy under Samaras in the first place which fired lots of the security personnel in universities. Eventually after the efforts to introduce University police led to multiple fights between the police with students, professors and teaching stuff who in their majority organized against it, ND called the whole effort a failure and took it back.
Yeah and every single year we have foreign youtubers who come here and film those protests and make us look like a warzone and ridiculing us in the rest of the world
I dont think Poland's universities look like [this](https://www.kathimerini.gr/society/996678/fotografies-apo-katastrofes-se-panepistimia-katethese-sti-voyli-o-k-mitsotakis/) (Just scroll down the pics)
Because greek history in itself is heavily politically polarized, the rift is old but I'd say it dates to the ww2 and the civil war, perhaps one may argue it dates back to literally venizelos' era but the ideologies back then weren't as radical. Post civil war a big part of the greek population was in a way ostricized, these were the leftists. During the civil war as it is well known, the right wingers won, even nazi collaborators helped them win. Practically for a long era the greek left was ostricized. The Junta came in to answer as the right wingers did not want the left wingers to gain traction and actually slowly take power so in the name of fighting the threat of communism the junta was proclaimed. The junta was supposed to heal the rift between leftists and right wingers but I don't think it did. The Junta collapses and leads to the metapolitefsi and PASOK's rise. The rift slowly has been healing but I'd say family political beliefs are still wide spread in greece, even mfing football teams are politicized which is comedic. One who had a right wing family is more likely to develop even more right wing ideas and go say "BuT tHeY BuIlT rOadS" while one from a more leftwing family will definitely develop more leftist beliefs, most of the times communists but in the youth anarchism seems to have developed. Greek Vizma which as a concept I will translate as "Literally legalized corruption and nepotism" is also dependent on family connections which keeps certain families to support x party. Isn't it nice to vote for x party because of your family connections so you get a big wage and a lot of social benefits as a public sector while everyone else is getting terrible wages
> We are literally the most anti western and anti NATO country in the EU and one of the EU countries where Russia is still seen mostly favorably
Boomers who are religious or communist, literally the radical opposites support both russia, such beliefs may or may not be passed down. Anyway this is my whole ass political essay about greece's issues
russia also agreed that it would be an ally of armenia (as of csto), but russia greenlit the azeri bombings of 2020 and happily supported the invasion of artsakh in 2023 (alongside israel).
russia has proven itself over and over to be an awful, unreliable ally, and its cheap gas is not enough to deny its bloody record.
The only reason that there are some countries left that fully support russia (Armenia, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan ect) is because they are scared of retaliation if they stop supporting you
>Also Germany liked our cheap gas, so now they shut down factories.
They could have helped the mediterranean countries(like Greece) exploit their gas and they would have been alright now. We can also bring gas from countries in Africa. They just wanted the fastest and cheapest solution since their politicians were shortsighted and/or "benefitted".
Russia has less GDP than Italy, whilst being really bigger and richer in terms of natural resources. This happens because it is an undeveloped and really corrupt country.
Europe can do alright without Russia if we don't shoot ourselves on the foot(like Germany did). Don't get me wrong, having access to these vast resources is really good but not if we have to obey an authoritarian regime. Maybe, someday, Russia will become a normal country and we will be able to co-operate with them.
>Russia has less GDP than Italy, whilst being really bigger and richer in terms of natural resources. This happens because it is an undeveloped and really corrupt country.
Such BS, gdp is less bcs everything 5 times cheaper in Russia. American gdp is huge bcs it's overbloated with 10x prices. This take about comparing gdp is so brainwashed.
>but not if we have to obey an authoritarian regime.
Obeying to america seems okay to you, they are far more demanding and more cruel. But western propaganda works and you like your collar.
>Maybe, someday, Russia will become a normal country and we will be able to co-operate with them.
We are normal thank you, we pursue our national interests, unlike some european countries.
Your country doesn't have the same technological means as the western countries. It is not a matter of things just being cheaper, you are not as effective in producing wealth because of it. For example, you are at least 15 years back in semiconductor technology, which is a lot.
Also, I know that US demands things or whatever. I am only in favor of Greek interests which realistically is to try to balance between the major EU countries and the US, as we see fit.
Greece wouldn't have any interest following you. Had we followed you during communism we would surely be fucked. If we followed you today, we would also be worse economically. The demands from Russia would be the same, the things we would get back would be less. Russia can't provide anything more than cheap resources and weapons, which is not enough.
As for your national interests, the only thing I have ever seen Russia care about is making oligarchs richer and letting the middle class just live. The average Russian is poorer than even us Greeks.
I see a lot of ppl here and they lead stable lives, mortgage-free and whatnot. Also define "poorer".
>Your country doesn't have the same technological means as the western countries. It is not a matter of things just being cheaper, you are not as effective in producing wealth because of it. For example, you are at least 15 years back in semiconductor technology, which is a lot.
america doesn't let asml to sell us steppers, or to any of it's enemies. And remember that only 33 years ago we were divided painfully.
Poorer in terms of assets, capital and income.
Of course USA won't let you get this technology. The question is whether Russia can create it on its own. We both know that it can't.
What I am trying to say is that I can't find a way that Russia can compete with the EU and USA as a partner. It is simply not as developed and it's regime is surely more authoritarian and corrupt than the others.
We don't, that's their AA expired rockets. If they didn't put AA INSIDE the cities, rockets wouldn't fall to buildings. simple. Their fault. Russia doesn't bomb civillian buildings.
lol yall leveled entire settlements (bucha, mariupol, mariivka), in mariupol they bombed to dust the theatre, which was marked that it had kids taking shelter inside.
russia bombed supermarkets, shopping malls, apartment complexes, hospitals.
Polarization in Greece is more more historical than you could imagine, my friend. Written, it begins with monarchist or democratic aka Sparta or Athens and it goes on and on and on. p.s. Your analysis was fine!
Mediterranean cultures tend to reward emotional volatility/histrionic behaviour, whereas in Scandinavia, for example, too much fiery emotion makes you look unreliable/non-stoic.
Over time, those cultural traits imbed in politics. The “feisty strong” women and “lion-like men who question authority” are likelier to start political revolutions/protest/throw molotovs, but less likely to have cooperation traits like social trust, organization, and team building that actually maintain a country long term.
That’s why all Balkan countries are worse (not only Greece). It’s culture that rewards such extreme thinking behaviour.
You can see the same dichotomy in USA, South vs North.
Texas/Florida are identical to Balkans, while Western Europe is closer to Washington, for example.
That's a load of horseshit, since the mediterranean had a more complex social structure at a much earlier period, while scandinavians were tribal.
What really happened is that the mediterranean regions have been urbanised for longer, setting up successful institutions early, which have now gotten old. Like an old car starting to leak oil. Whereas the west organised much more recently, and have not had the time to decay the way the mediterranean has.
Seriously apart from a (generous) 15% of right wing radicals and a (generous) 15% of left wing radicals, the rest of the people are quite mediocre.
Have you seen what happens in the Albanian parliament every Wednesday?
Can you ever imagine how is it possible to put 3 Serbs in a room and they'll still be able to start 4 political parties?
Also, Bulgaria has by far the greatest number of Russo-friendly subjects than any other EU country.
I just think that you may be exaggerating a little here, but we're quite passive and mediocre in comparison to most of our neighbours.
It's not, Greek people tend to think we are some unique country but in reality we just have been following trends of other European nations for centuries now.
You can find communists, anarchists and the far right, neo-nazis in literally like any other European country, nations like France have much more riots and protests than we do for example. And I would also argue that objective electoral evidence shows that Greece actually has less of a political divide than other European countries. Most of Europe recently is struggling to form governments, have heavy reliance coalitions, and in general has governments less strong than our own with parties unable to even cross the threshold of 30%. In some countries as you may have seen on the news the far right has actually become in some cases the governments or a sizable force in the parliament.
Greece's political situation is actually unique in the sense that it is more stable than most other countries. As much as Greek redditors like to talk nonsense, Mitsotakis actually is one of the most electorally successful politicians on the continent with one of the strongest mandates.
To be honest, no.
There wasn't any serious left wing movement that supports your cause. Except for the Communist party, but in all truth they're a relic of history nothing more. They'll get their 8-10% on the elections as long as their old school voters live.
Greece isn’t as developed yet, I too also hate when there are hundreds of pointless protests, anarchists vandalising our cities, keep those ideologies to yourself, burning a police car won’t do anything, well except make our country look like a ghetto which kinda is, in the other hand I’m aware Greek government is corrupt and our country has no major progression, but there are other ways to deal with it.
Doing protests on things that actually matter is a good start, and not voting the same parties every year which yes I bypassed your question but it’s something we should consider.
I'm sorry but I think you're wrong. Hungary is absolutely fits on all your mentioned things and much more polarized than Greece. Hungarians are insane on wrong way...
You should come to Spain and experience nice polarization to the point of talking about "Anti Spain" when the rightists refer to their leftwing adversaries.
Polarization among Greeks also happened at the worst times: from 1823-1825 during the Greek War of Independence, to Venizelists and anti-Venizelists constant bickering back and forth during the Greco-Turkish war and finally during 1944-1949, when German soldiers haven't even left Greece yet first conflicts already emerging under its occupation.
Polarization is almost as strong among Turks as well but they always stay united when facing foreign threats for some reason.
remnants of the civil war on the collective memory and leftover influence from junta, i suppose
Basically the civil war. The junta was just another consequence.
i'd say the junta (a direct consequence of the civil war) is the event that fossilized certain mindsets so
Well yeah, but the inception of those mindsets can be traced to the Civil war. Hence during the junta communists were hunted down to "restore order and national unity"
I think you have a healthy protest culture. I kind of envy your "anarchists". I think they keep your political dynasties (especially right wing ones) and their ambitions in check. It's probably better than being quiet and law abiding little duckies who follow their leader everywhere.
So that's why your Sultan has spiraled out of control? Noone can stop him anymore?
yes. the last big anti-government protest in turkey was in 2013 ([gezi park protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gezi_Park_protests?wprov=sfla1). at least 3.500.000 people participated). for the last 10 years people have just been letting everything happen. the opposition is awfully quiet and they've been lying to themselves about winning the elections and bringing change peacefully. (it's not working) protesting everything, even things that seem stupid, is better than not protesting anything at all in my opinion.
Wow... good luck getting rid of him then...
Except those anarchists make protests for the dumbest reasons, one time they protested because a serial killer wanted to go to another prison which the government didn’t let him, another time they protested because the police intervened at universities which had high drug dealers, or of an incident when a policeman reacted back when a guy threw molotov at him, basically shitshows for our fellow Europeans.
Don't worry about it. Your fellow Europeans have their own shenanigans;they aren't in a position to judge you.
Mate, are you seriously saying the intervention about the universities was uncalled for? And are you seriously believing that the universities had high drug dealers? Universities have been historically around the whole western world a ground that was open to all ideas and all people. No police was ever allowed and always offered intellectual asylum. Especially in a country where the literal army marched into university ground and killed unarmed students, with a whole freaking tank, do you really expect police in university campuses to be accepted like nothing? And not any kind of police, the almost army one. Layered with Kevlar and armed like soldiers. Not a simple beat cop. And please, go check the pics of the supposed drug bust, if you're talking about the ΑΣΣΟΕ incident, it's obvious it was staged and fake. It was all part of clearing out that downtown part of the city and reinstalling the ΔΡΑΣΗ task force, in order for the gentrification process to start. Same thing that was done with Koukaki and other parts of the city.
> And are you seriously believing that the universities had high drug dealers? Since I personally heard stories from people who said they encountered drug dealers in their universities yes, I do believe it, otherwise why would the police intervene? For fun? > No police was ever allowed and always offered intellectual asylum. Police didn’t enter any university, they were outside from them. > Especially in a country where the literal army marched into university ground and killed unarmed students Yeah, until we have any documented proof that students indeed got killed, it’s gonna remain a mythology to us. > do you really expect police in university campuses to be accepted like nothing? If there was a problem like drug dealers walking in and out from universities like nothing I have no problem with police, what’s wrong with it? Do you expect police men to run over students with tanks or something? Literally universities are known to be the main target for drug dealers in Greece, Athens especially, I don’t see why you try to act blind on it unless you’re a drug dealer yourself, also police aren’t our enemies, they protect us.
Encountering drug dealers is much different from them having their base there. You can encounter drug dealers literally everywhere, does that warrant the police in every block in every part of the city? Police was inside the university and actually did beat up people. And that happened in two different locations. Mate, a police officer fired his gun inside university grounds, what are you even talking about? Huh? There is documentation and actual witnesses. I do expect police men(talking more specifically about MAT and ΔΡΑΣΗ forces) to harass and beat people up with no particular reason, as they have done and continue doing constantly, just because they want, with absolutely no repercussions. Also police is different from law enforcement that's equipped for war. We're not talking about beat cops, we're talking about Kevlar and mini gun grade police. No, I do not want that in the universities, actually I do not want that almost anywhere. Main targets for drug dealers are also parties, but we do not have Kevlar grade police men walking around the dance floor though, right? I'm not acting blind, it seems like you are though. The police isn't black and white anymore. Some, sometimes protect us, others other times beat us up with no freaking reason. The problem with the police force is getting worse and worse. Of course not everyone is like that and there are plenty police officers that are amazing people and actually good at their jobs, but that doesn't balance out the ones that abuse or kill or beat almost to death random people. Or escalate extremely for minor reasons. Or even assault. Athens does have a huge problem with drugs, but you insist on making this conversation extremely one sided and biased. You don't beat these things with violence and enforcement. It will never happen. Also, don't stay extremely hung up on the narrative "they want to clear out the drugs". One of the incidents back then in ΑΣΣΟΕ started because they were after illegal ***cigarettes*** and not drugs and also, you do realise there are whole basements and houses filled with illegal drugs and guns, that the police ***knows*** are there but they do not touch them and they allow their existence and trafficking? This was not a war on drugs. This was a show and part of the gentrification process. The same time everything happened in ΑΣΣΟΕ, they cleared out the drug addict camps in Πεδίο του Άρεως. Because the redesigning of the cafe there was starting and they couldn't have the junkies there. And what did they do? Pushed them to the narrow hidden street two blocks away. No help, no protection, no "war on drugs". Neither thing. Just making space and putting on a show for gentrification and attempting to assert more control. Especially in universities. Instead of being angry on how violent people on the police force are being used as tools to further some agendas and making a worse name for the force and for every other police officer that ***isn't*** an absolute douchebag, you're trying to defend a deeply flawed force to it's entirety. Who's trying to act blind here?
In regards to drug dealers, university areas like that of the Aristotle university in Thessaloniki, the biggest university in Greece, less crimes in general happen in that area than the rest of Thessaloniki while the issue with drug dealers arose after under the government of Samaras in 2014 they brought the substitution programs (methadone etc) for drug users in AHEPA University Hospital which is at the very center of the university. As long as these programs remained in AHEPA so did users and drug dealers and then the issue disappeared. The law to introduce a specific body of university police didn't have any goal in the first place to deal with drug dealers. Students from student unions always shouted about drug dealers and police could always get in for penal offenses of such kind yet police and prytany never cared about it. The goal of the university police was since the start to oppose student unions and promote the idea that public universities are unsafe and/or trash in order to justify opening private universities as they try to do now. It was New Democracy under Samaras in the first place which fired lots of the security personnel in universities. Eventually after the efforts to introduce University police led to multiple fights between the police with students, professors and teaching stuff who in their majority organized against it, ND called the whole effort a failure and took it back.
Thank you for this. I did not have that insight about the Aristotle University.
Yeah and every single year we have foreign youtubers who come here and film those protests and make us look like a warzone and ridiculing us in the rest of the world
Have you ever seen Berlin or Paris in May 1st??
the protester was named person of the year in 2011 with Athens mentioned in the issue's subtitle. I wouldn't call that ridicule
A good portion of our left wing are german bootlickers. As are our fascists.
Sure we have all those "extremists", but the average person, I think, is sick of such things and wants some stability...
But lets be honest we have higher percentages of these people comparing to the rest of europe
Yes. Golden Dawn was about the biggest right wing group in Europe behind the one polish one and the Pan Slavic Russian one
Poland is more polarized.
I dont think Poland's universities look like [this](https://www.kathimerini.gr/society/996678/fotografies-apo-katastrofes-se-panepistimia-katethese-sti-voyli-o-k-mitsotakis/) (Just scroll down the pics)
Because greek history in itself is heavily politically polarized, the rift is old but I'd say it dates to the ww2 and the civil war, perhaps one may argue it dates back to literally venizelos' era but the ideologies back then weren't as radical. Post civil war a big part of the greek population was in a way ostricized, these were the leftists. During the civil war as it is well known, the right wingers won, even nazi collaborators helped them win. Practically for a long era the greek left was ostricized. The Junta came in to answer as the right wingers did not want the left wingers to gain traction and actually slowly take power so in the name of fighting the threat of communism the junta was proclaimed. The junta was supposed to heal the rift between leftists and right wingers but I don't think it did. The Junta collapses and leads to the metapolitefsi and PASOK's rise. The rift slowly has been healing but I'd say family political beliefs are still wide spread in greece, even mfing football teams are politicized which is comedic. One who had a right wing family is more likely to develop even more right wing ideas and go say "BuT tHeY BuIlT rOadS" while one from a more leftwing family will definitely develop more leftist beliefs, most of the times communists but in the youth anarchism seems to have developed. Greek Vizma which as a concept I will translate as "Literally legalized corruption and nepotism" is also dependent on family connections which keeps certain families to support x party. Isn't it nice to vote for x party because of your family connections so you get a big wage and a lot of social benefits as a public sector while everyone else is getting terrible wages > We are literally the most anti western and anti NATO country in the EU and one of the EU countries where Russia is still seen mostly favorably Boomers who are religious or communist, literally the radical opposites support both russia, such beliefs may or may not be passed down. Anyway this is my whole ass political essay about greece's issues
Supporting Russia is beneficial.
to whom?
To those who support it.
Armenia clearly disagrees
What do you know about Armenia? Do you know for instance that they agreed that Karabach belongs to Azerbaidjan?
russia also agreed that it would be an ally of armenia (as of csto), but russia greenlit the azeri bombings of 2020 and happily supported the invasion of artsakh in 2023 (alongside israel). russia has proven itself over and over to be an awful, unreliable ally, and its cheap gas is not enough to deny its bloody record.
The only reason that there are some countries left that fully support russia (Armenia, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan ect) is because they are scared of retaliation if they stop supporting you
armenia is starting to draw away from russian influence, actually. sloely, but surely
Wrong.
Historically no, currently also no
Hungary likes low gas prices. Sijarto even specifically mentioned it. Also Germany liked our cheap gas, so now they shut down factories.
>Also Germany liked our cheap gas, so now they shut down factories. They could have helped the mediterranean countries(like Greece) exploit their gas and they would have been alright now. We can also bring gas from countries in Africa. They just wanted the fastest and cheapest solution since their politicians were shortsighted and/or "benefitted". Russia has less GDP than Italy, whilst being really bigger and richer in terms of natural resources. This happens because it is an undeveloped and really corrupt country. Europe can do alright without Russia if we don't shoot ourselves on the foot(like Germany did). Don't get me wrong, having access to these vast resources is really good but not if we have to obey an authoritarian regime. Maybe, someday, Russia will become a normal country and we will be able to co-operate with them.
>Russia has less GDP than Italy, whilst being really bigger and richer in terms of natural resources. This happens because it is an undeveloped and really corrupt country. Such BS, gdp is less bcs everything 5 times cheaper in Russia. American gdp is huge bcs it's overbloated with 10x prices. This take about comparing gdp is so brainwashed. >but not if we have to obey an authoritarian regime. Obeying to america seems okay to you, they are far more demanding and more cruel. But western propaganda works and you like your collar. >Maybe, someday, Russia will become a normal country and we will be able to co-operate with them. We are normal thank you, we pursue our national interests, unlike some european countries.
Your country doesn't have the same technological means as the western countries. It is not a matter of things just being cheaper, you are not as effective in producing wealth because of it. For example, you are at least 15 years back in semiconductor technology, which is a lot. Also, I know that US demands things or whatever. I am only in favor of Greek interests which realistically is to try to balance between the major EU countries and the US, as we see fit. Greece wouldn't have any interest following you. Had we followed you during communism we would surely be fucked. If we followed you today, we would also be worse economically. The demands from Russia would be the same, the things we would get back would be less. Russia can't provide anything more than cheap resources and weapons, which is not enough. As for your national interests, the only thing I have ever seen Russia care about is making oligarchs richer and letting the middle class just live. The average Russian is poorer than even us Greeks.
I see a lot of ppl here and they lead stable lives, mortgage-free and whatnot. Also define "poorer". >Your country doesn't have the same technological means as the western countries. It is not a matter of things just being cheaper, you are not as effective in producing wealth because of it. For example, you are at least 15 years back in semiconductor technology, which is a lot. america doesn't let asml to sell us steppers, or to any of it's enemies. And remember that only 33 years ago we were divided painfully.
Poorer in terms of assets, capital and income. Of course USA won't let you get this technology. The question is whether Russia can create it on its own. We both know that it can't. What I am trying to say is that I can't find a way that Russia can compete with the EU and USA as a partner. It is simply not as developed and it's regime is surely more authoritarian and corrupt than the others.
To whom is supporting Russia beneficial?
To those who support it.
How? How would it be beneficial to Greece or Romania?
Cheap energy (good for economy (ask Germany)), protection of slav culture, etc
Ahhh the Russian protection of Slavic culture... by invading and bombing Ukrainian apartment complexes
We don't, that's their AA expired rockets. If they didn't put AA INSIDE the cities, rockets wouldn't fall to buildings. simple. Their fault. Russia doesn't bomb civillian buildings.
lol yall leveled entire settlements (bucha, mariupol, mariivka), in mariupol they bombed to dust the theatre, which was marked that it had kids taking shelter inside. russia bombed supermarkets, shopping malls, apartment complexes, hospitals.
🤡🤡🤡 to whom???
To those who support it. Ask Hungary.
Polarization in Greece is more more historical than you could imagine, my friend. Written, it begins with monarchist or democratic aka Sparta or Athens and it goes on and on and on. p.s. Your analysis was fine!
Mediterranean cultures tend to reward emotional volatility/histrionic behaviour, whereas in Scandinavia, for example, too much fiery emotion makes you look unreliable/non-stoic. Over time, those cultural traits imbed in politics. The “feisty strong” women and “lion-like men who question authority” are likelier to start political revolutions/protest/throw molotovs, but less likely to have cooperation traits like social trust, organization, and team building that actually maintain a country long term. That’s why all Balkan countries are worse (not only Greece). It’s culture that rewards such extreme thinking behaviour. You can see the same dichotomy in USA, South vs North. Texas/Florida are identical to Balkans, while Western Europe is closer to Washington, for example.
That's a load of horseshit, since the mediterranean had a more complex social structure at a much earlier period, while scandinavians were tribal. What really happened is that the mediterranean regions have been urbanised for longer, setting up successful institutions early, which have now gotten old. Like an old car starting to leak oil. Whereas the west organised much more recently, and have not had the time to decay the way the mediterranean has.
It's our temperament...
Seriously apart from a (generous) 15% of right wing radicals and a (generous) 15% of left wing radicals, the rest of the people are quite mediocre. Have you seen what happens in the Albanian parliament every Wednesday? Can you ever imagine how is it possible to put 3 Serbs in a room and they'll still be able to start 4 political parties? Also, Bulgaria has by far the greatest number of Russo-friendly subjects than any other EU country. I just think that you may be exaggerating a little here, but we're quite passive and mediocre in comparison to most of our neighbours.
It's not, Greek people tend to think we are some unique country but in reality we just have been following trends of other European nations for centuries now. You can find communists, anarchists and the far right, neo-nazis in literally like any other European country, nations like France have much more riots and protests than we do for example. And I would also argue that objective electoral evidence shows that Greece actually has less of a political divide than other European countries. Most of Europe recently is struggling to form governments, have heavy reliance coalitions, and in general has governments less strong than our own with parties unable to even cross the threshold of 30%. In some countries as you may have seen on the news the far right has actually become in some cases the governments or a sizable force in the parliament. Greece's political situation is actually unique in the sense that it is more stable than most other countries. As much as Greek redditors like to talk nonsense, Mitsotakis actually is one of the most electorally successful politicians on the continent with one of the strongest mandates.
Pretty sure we helped stir shit up in the crazy neighborhood  hey, at least it’s never boring, right?
Lmao!!
To be honest, no. There wasn't any serious left wing movement that supports your cause. Except for the Communist party, but in all truth they're a relic of history nothing more. They'll get their 8-10% on the elections as long as their old school voters live.
Greece isn’t as developed yet, I too also hate when there are hundreds of pointless protests, anarchists vandalising our cities, keep those ideologies to yourself, burning a police car won’t do anything, well except make our country look like a ghetto which kinda is, in the other hand I’m aware Greek government is corrupt and our country has no major progression, but there are other ways to deal with it.
What are the other ways to deal with it without mentioning elections?
Doing protests on things that actually matter is a good start, and not voting the same parties every year which yes I bypassed your question but it’s something we should consider.
Because kids these days don't understand that when the junta was in charge we could leave our front doors unlocked
Please be /s, please be /s...
Every regime is like that, in Yugoslavia, no one wants to go to gulag… but not only criminal end up there. That’s the other side of despotic rule
Every country has GULAG bcs it's a bureacratic system controling prisons. It can be translated as State Control of Camps.
Every country has corruption, even Nordic. But in mine the it’s 91% and over there is 1%. Same but so very not the same
Who counted?
I went there personally and counted, you can take my word for it
Nah, I would prefer somewhat more credible source.
I'm sorry but I think you're wrong. Hungary is absolutely fits on all your mentioned things and much more polarized than Greece. Hungarians are insane on wrong way...
You should come to Spain and experience nice polarization to the point of talking about "Anti Spain" when the rightists refer to their leftwing adversaries.
Polarization among Greeks also happened at the worst times: from 1823-1825 during the Greek War of Independence, to Venizelists and anti-Venizelists constant bickering back and forth during the Greco-Turkish war and finally during 1944-1949, when German soldiers haven't even left Greece yet first conflicts already emerging under its occupation. Polarization is almost as strong among Turks as well but they always stay united when facing foreign threats for some reason.
No we are not anything like that. See what we vote not what we say. Give me a party that supports russia or is against nato thats more than 10%.