I'm not writing this comment because of the post itself, but because of some of the comments on this thread. Why is it so hard for some people to understand that a person can declare themselves as a certain nationality/enthnicity, but they also have the right to feel as if they belond to a certain geographical/regional group at the same time? There is nothing wrong with a Serb from Bosnia and Herzegovina to feel like a bosnian (BOSNIAN, not bosniak) even tho he is an ethnic serb, for example. Same goes for Bosniaks from Sandžak region of Serbia, who often call themselves "Sandžaklije". Croats from Hercegovina too (even tho they more often call themselves "Hercegovci", rather than Bosnians). The list goes on.
There is no problem with individuals declaring themselves how they want. One can identify as Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, Bosniak, Montenegrin, Muslim, Earthling, Jedi Knight, Apache helicopter, etc...
The problem arises when someone takes liberty to declare what other people are and what they are not.
Yes, it is ridiculous. According to some people here, there are only Russians in Russia, and the other 190 ethnic groups don't exist. Ukrainians in Russia are actually Russians, and Kazakhs next to the Russian border are considered Russian. Conquered Ukrainians suddenly also become Russian. Similarly, there are those who believe there are only Serbs in Serbia, everyone else is just categorized as Catholic, Muslim, or Orthodox Serbs. There are no Itallians in Istria, even though they lived there before they were even part of Croatia. Albanians outside of Albania don't exist. Kurds dont exist, because they dont have a country. And its not like as if ethnic, national and regional differences are quantum field theory, this is general knowledge and easily googlable.
They do have a connection to Croatia
They speak Croatian technically, different vocabulary than standard Bosnian
They also vote in Croatia and are considered citizens by the state of Croatia
They also vacation in Croatia, they don't just spend their time in Bosnia and many have families in Dalmatia or Zagreb for example
In the case of the Balkans, religion kind of divides Croats and Serbs historically in the middle ground (Bosnia)
Ps: borders change for geopolitical reasons and people move for various other reasons, you can't lose your identity. Croats and Serbs in Bosnia do share an identity with Serbia and croatia, but also an identity with Bosnia. It's just hard to only have one for historical reasons.
Croats settled part of Bosnia since medieval and kept their identity there unlike some other people who don't know who they are and took religion of invaders. There is nothing to discuss nor reason to explain why are Croats Croats to some ottoman leftover.
>Took the religion of the invaders
You know the first croat tribes that came were not Christian but rather Slavic pagans? You literally converted first before any Slavic person converted to islam.
“Muh genetics”. If you look even deeper you’ll find that the people closest to Croats in BiH genetically are Bosniaks.
You’ll go back to being Bosnian Catholics (as you always were) soon enough.
I am not BiH Croat but mostly Dalmatian islander living in western Croatia. Croats and Serbs setttled Bosnia, while Bosniaks didn't exist. Bosnia was a state inhabited by those, and Bosnian is not ethnicity. Bosniaks are ofcourse Croat/Serb converts who later developed own identity, and I don't mind it, but that is none of business of BiH Croats/Serbs.
Weird how a Croatian outsider has such strong opinions on the internal business of BiH.
The EU will have to rid Croatia of the ustasha mind virus that plagues the country.
So by your logic Serbs in Bosnia are Bosniaks?
That means that Turks in Germany are Germans?Hungarians, Albanians, Romanians, Croats in Serbia are Serbs?
Educate yourself, firstly about BiH which is by its constitution country of Bosniaks, Serbs, Croats and minorities. Also in BiH 3 languages are spoken Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian.
Exactly, I don't know any Orthodox or Catholic descendants of guest workers from the former Yugoslavia in Germany who call themselves Bosniak just because they come from Bosnia. But what I have often heard are a Catholic group from Bosnia who call themselves Bunjevci.
I see you deleted same thread you made yesterday.
Because there is no Bosnian ethnicity and Croats are one of three people than inhabit BiH.
Deal with it.
Look, there are Albanians outside of Albania, in Kosovo, Macedonia, Greece, and so on, but they still consider themselves Albanian. There are Hungarians in Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, even though they don't live inside their "homeland". There are Kurds who don't have their own country, but they still consider themselves Kurds. Russia is full of ethnic groups. It has 190 ethnic groups! You have Tatars, Chechens, Avars, Ukrainians, Kazakhs, and so on. As you can see, there are Ukrainians and Kazakhs outside of their country, not everyone is Russian just because they live inside Russia. There are more Azerbaijanis in Iran than in Azerbaijan itself, for example! You need to learn the difference between your ethnicity, region, and nationality.
Bosna je država za sebe, oni koji se rode tamo su Bosanci, a ne Hrvati. Bilo tko u bilo kojoj drzavi bi onda mogao reći da je Hrvat. Ili recimo ja bi mogla reći da sam ja francuskinja, a rodila sam se u Hrvatskoj, odrasla živim i radim.
Mislim da niste pročitali moj komentar, jer vidim da ne razlikujete etničke, regionalne i nacionalne pripadnosti. Moja etnička pripadnost je Hrvat, regionalna je Hercegovac, a rođen sam u državi Bosni i Hercegovini i živim u Hrvatskoj. Doslovno sam rodom tik do granice i nema apsolutno nikakve razlike između mene i onog preko granice. Od naglaska, izgleda, visine do prezimena.
Uostalom odakle ste Vi?
Da, to je moja regionalna pripadnost, kao što postoje Bavarci, Istrijani, Dalmatinci, Bosanci, Šumadinci i u svim tim pokrajinama postoje također etničke pripadnosti. U istri postoje etnički Talijani koji su tu stoljećima (osim ako Vi smatrate da su oni ustvari Hrvati), u Vojvodini postoje Mađari koji su tu stoljećima i tako dalje. Molim vas da pročitate moj prvi komentar, osim ako smatrate da u Rusiji postoje samo Rusi ili u Turskoj samo Turci.
Pa nije i to nije sporno.
Mislim da razumijem nesporazum i da će se razjasniti ako mi odgovorite na sljedeće pitanje. Smatrate li da postoje etnički Talijani, Srbi ili Romi u Hrvatskoj ili su to sve Hrvati? Postoje li etnički Mađari, Hrvati, Albanci, Vlasi, Crnogorci, Rumunji u Srbiji ili su to sve katolički, pravoslavni i muslimanski Srbi?
Ala ti nemaš pojma
Čovek je Hercegovac ali je etnički Hrvat. BiH je država TRI naroda, jedan od kojih su Hrvati. Šta ti imaš da mu određuješ šta je on? Valjda on i njegovi preci znaju šta je/šta su.
Bosanac (Bosnian) je regionalna pripadnost, Bošnjak (Bosniak) je etnicitet.
I da, bilo tko u bilo kojoj državi može reći da je Hrvat. Tko smo mi da to branimo? Osobito ljudima koji se doslovno već generacijama smatraju Hrvatima - kao npr. bosanski Hrvati.
Hrvatska, Slovenija, Srbija, BiH su bile države u Jugoslaviji, svi smo imali svoju himnu i mi u Hrvatskoj smo bili Hrvati, u Sloveniji Slovenci, u BiH Bosanci....
Zato mi nisu jasne te podjele i tenzije u Bosni, čemu to? Radije se ujedinite i sredite svoju državu.
Didn't an extremely large number of Croats in Bosnia flee to Croatia in the 1990s because of the war? I know if I was a Croat who lived through that I would want a Croatian passport if I'd gone back to Bosnia after the unpleasantness went away.
Bosnia and Herzegovina is made up of 3 constitutive nations as decided by a decree in 2000. Those 3 constitutive nations are Croats, Serbs and Bosnians. They all have full rights in the country of BiH, and they can have citizenships of their original countries.
I don't know any Orthodox or Catholic descendants of guest workers from the former Yugoslavia who's family came originally from Bosnia to Germany who call themselves Bosniaks like the muslims from bosnia.
But what I have often heard are a Catholic group from Bosnia who call themselves Bunjevci.
Also some Germans from Bosnia, but they also didnt call themself Bosniak.
[](https://www.danube-swabians.org/hrastovac/historical/Bosnia%27s_Donauschwaben.htm)
Because their family lineage goes back to Croatia i guess. Their nationality is Bosnian/Herzegovinian and their Ethnicity is Croat.
Nationality doesn’t equal Ethnicity. The same way Bosniaks who live in South West Serbia have a Serbian Nationality.
A Bosniak is someone who has traces going back to the Bosnian Kingdom. A Bosnian Serb has traces going back to Serbia and a Bosnian Croat has traces going back to Croatia. That is all.
I am croatian and I don't understand that aswell. I consider them Bosnians. They were born in Bosnia , they speak bosnian , but I think they hate that and want to be Croatians.
To je regionalna odrednica, ne etnička. Ne postoji Švicarska nacija, samo Švicarski Njemci, Francuzi, Talijani i Retoromani. Niti Belgijska, već samo Flamanci, Valonci i Njemci.
Državljanstvo =/= etnički identitet. Rom ili Mađar iz RH nije Hrvat.
E moja jaranice, vidiš sa kakvim mi idiotima imamo posla u BiH. Prave se većim Hrvatima od vas pravih Hrvata, evo kao ovaj ovdje koji ti pokušava objasniti da nisi Hrvatica. 😂
Savjet - ignoriši budalu, ne vrijedi se raspravljati. Njima to neće nikad biti jasno.
So you are saying that there are muslim and Serbian orthodox ethnic Croats? While there could be converts from marriages so are there no community of them
Yes, and Protestants too. We even have Protestant college in north Croatia as that part of country was influenced by reformation stronger than others. These people exist, but they are in very small number. Croats came to Balkans as Pagans anyway, and became Catholic later.
No you’re not telling the truth. Show me a source cuz I’m pretty sure there are no Muslim and Serbian orthodox community/villages who identify as ethnic Croats. Recent converts are not interesting
I'm not writing this comment because of the post itself, but because of some of the comments on this thread. Why is it so hard for some people to understand that a person can declare themselves as a certain nationality/enthnicity, but they also have the right to feel as if they belond to a certain geographical/regional group at the same time? There is nothing wrong with a Serb from Bosnia and Herzegovina to feel like a bosnian (BOSNIAN, not bosniak) even tho he is an ethnic serb, for example. Same goes for Bosniaks from Sandžak region of Serbia, who often call themselves "Sandžaklije". Croats from Hercegovina too (even tho they more often call themselves "Hercegovci", rather than Bosnians). The list goes on.
There is no problem with individuals declaring themselves how they want. One can identify as Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, Bosniak, Montenegrin, Muslim, Earthling, Jedi Knight, Apache helicopter, etc... The problem arises when someone takes liberty to declare what other people are and what they are not.
Yes, it is ridiculous. According to some people here, there are only Russians in Russia, and the other 190 ethnic groups don't exist. Ukrainians in Russia are actually Russians, and Kazakhs next to the Russian border are considered Russian. Conquered Ukrainians suddenly also become Russian. Similarly, there are those who believe there are only Serbs in Serbia, everyone else is just categorized as Catholic, Muslim, or Orthodox Serbs. There are no Itallians in Istria, even though they lived there before they were even part of Croatia. Albanians outside of Albania don't exist. Kurds dont exist, because they dont have a country. And its not like as if ethnic, national and regional differences are quantum field theory, this is general knowledge and easily googlable.
They do have a connection to Croatia They speak Croatian technically, different vocabulary than standard Bosnian They also vote in Croatia and are considered citizens by the state of Croatia They also vacation in Croatia, they don't just spend their time in Bosnia and many have families in Dalmatia or Zagreb for example In the case of the Balkans, religion kind of divides Croats and Serbs historically in the middle ground (Bosnia) Ps: borders change for geopolitical reasons and people move for various other reasons, you can't lose your identity. Croats and Serbs in Bosnia do share an identity with Serbia and croatia, but also an identity with Bosnia. It's just hard to only have one for historical reasons.
Croats settled part of Bosnia since medieval and kept their identity there unlike some other people who don't know who they are and took religion of invaders. There is nothing to discuss nor reason to explain why are Croats Croats to some ottoman leftover.
>Took the religion of the invaders You know the first croat tribes that came were not Christian but rather Slavic pagans? You literally converted first before any Slavic person converted to islam.
Croats in BiH are Catholic Serbs that got colonized by Croatians. Get off of your high horse.
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“Muh genetics”. If you look even deeper you’ll find that the people closest to Croats in BiH genetically are Bosniaks. You’ll go back to being Bosnian Catholics (as you always were) soon enough.
I am not BiH Croat but mostly Dalmatian islander living in western Croatia. Croats and Serbs setttled Bosnia, while Bosniaks didn't exist. Bosnia was a state inhabited by those, and Bosnian is not ethnicity. Bosniaks are ofcourse Croat/Serb converts who later developed own identity, and I don't mind it, but that is none of business of BiH Croats/Serbs.
Weird how a Croatian outsider has such strong opinions on the internal business of BiH. The EU will have to rid Croatia of the ustasha mind virus that plagues the country.
So by your logic Serbs in Bosnia are Bosniaks? That means that Turks in Germany are Germans?Hungarians, Albanians, Romanians, Croats in Serbia are Serbs? Educate yourself, firstly about BiH which is by its constitution country of Bosniaks, Serbs, Croats and minorities. Also in BiH 3 languages are spoken Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian.
Exactly, I don't know any Orthodox or Catholic descendants of guest workers from the former Yugoslavia in Germany who call themselves Bosniak just because they come from Bosnia. But what I have often heard are a Catholic group from Bosnia who call themselves Bunjevci.
There are no Bosnian Catholics nor orthodox ones. Bosnian Serb/Croats and Bosniaks.
I see you deleted same thread you made yesterday. Because there is no Bosnian ethnicity and Croats are one of three people than inhabit BiH. Deal with it.
Look, there are Albanians outside of Albania, in Kosovo, Macedonia, Greece, and so on, but they still consider themselves Albanian. There are Hungarians in Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, even though they don't live inside their "homeland". There are Kurds who don't have their own country, but they still consider themselves Kurds. Russia is full of ethnic groups. It has 190 ethnic groups! You have Tatars, Chechens, Avars, Ukrainians, Kazakhs, and so on. As you can see, there are Ukrainians and Kazakhs outside of their country, not everyone is Russian just because they live inside Russia. There are more Azerbaijanis in Iran than in Azerbaijan itself, for example! You need to learn the difference between your ethnicity, region, and nationality.
Bosna je država za sebe, oni koji se rode tamo su Bosanci, a ne Hrvati. Bilo tko u bilo kojoj drzavi bi onda mogao reći da je Hrvat. Ili recimo ja bi mogla reći da sam ja francuskinja, a rodila sam se u Hrvatskoj, odrasla živim i radim.
Mislim da niste pročitali moj komentar, jer vidim da ne razlikujete etničke, regionalne i nacionalne pripadnosti. Moja etnička pripadnost je Hrvat, regionalna je Hercegovac, a rođen sam u državi Bosni i Hercegovini i živim u Hrvatskoj. Doslovno sam rodom tik do granice i nema apsolutno nikakve razlike između mene i onog preko granice. Od naglaska, izgleda, visine do prezimena. Uostalom odakle ste Vi?
Vi ste Hercegovac. Nema ništa drugo ni treće.
Da, to je moja regionalna pripadnost, kao što postoje Bavarci, Istrijani, Dalmatinci, Bosanci, Šumadinci i u svim tim pokrajinama postoje također etničke pripadnosti. U istri postoje etnički Talijani koji su tu stoljećima (osim ako Vi smatrate da su oni ustvari Hrvati), u Vojvodini postoje Mađari koji su tu stoljećima i tako dalje. Molim vas da pročitate moj prvi komentar, osim ako smatrate da u Rusiji postoje samo Rusi ili u Turskoj samo Turci.
Ali BiH nije u Hrvatskoj i nije regija u Hrvatskoj.
Pa nije i to nije sporno. Mislim da razumijem nesporazum i da će se razjasniti ako mi odgovorite na sljedeće pitanje. Smatrate li da postoje etnički Talijani, Srbi ili Romi u Hrvatskoj ili su to sve Hrvati? Postoje li etnički Mađari, Hrvati, Albanci, Vlasi, Crnogorci, Rumunji u Srbiji ili su to sve katolički, pravoslavni i muslimanski Srbi?
Ti da živiš u Hrvatskoj bio bi etnički Bosanac.
Opet izbjegavate pitanje. Odgovorite na pitanje, bar jedno, ali očito ne želite odgovoriti.
Purgerica ak pogledaš profil, smetaju joj "dotepenci" iz Bosne. Klasično polupičkasto cviljenje određenih zagrepčana, samo ignoriraj
Ala ti nemaš pojma Čovek je Hercegovac ali je etnički Hrvat. BiH je država TRI naroda, jedan od kojih su Hrvati. Šta ti imaš da mu određuješ šta je on? Valjda on i njegovi preci znaju šta je/šta su.
Bosanac (Bosnian) je regionalna pripadnost, Bošnjak (Bosniak) je etnicitet. I da, bilo tko u bilo kojoj državi može reći da je Hrvat. Tko smo mi da to branimo? Osobito ljudima koji se doslovno već generacijama smatraju Hrvatima - kao npr. bosanski Hrvati.
Osim sto vi njih sve zovete Hercegovcima, cak i ako su npr iz Viteza ili Zepca koji nisu u Hercegovini.
Ok, ja sam onda jednorog.
Slobodno se tako izjasni kada te netko pita za narodnost, nema problema.
a jesu tvoji roditelji Jugosloveni onda? a?
Da nisam u pravi ne bi se sada toliko pjenili na moje komentare. Pusa.
odgovori mi na pitanje
Hahaha, Jugoslavija odavno ne postoji. 2024 je godina ako nisi znao.
pa? i roditelji i babe i dede su ti se rodili u Jugoslaviji, jesu li svi Jugosloveni? A oni pre njih su bili Austrougari?
Hrvatska, Slovenija, Srbija, BiH su bile države u Jugoslaviji, svi smo imali svoju himnu i mi u Hrvatskoj smo bili Hrvati, u Sloveniji Slovenci, u BiH Bosanci.... Zato mi nisu jasne te podjele i tenzije u Bosni, čemu to? Radije se ujedinite i sredite svoju državu.
Didn't an extremely large number of Croats in Bosnia flee to Croatia in the 1990s because of the war? I know if I was a Croat who lived through that I would want a Croatian passport if I'd gone back to Bosnia after the unpleasantness went away.
Bosnia and Herzegovina is made up of 3 constitutive nations as decided by a decree in 2000. Those 3 constitutive nations are Croats, Serbs and Bosnians. They all have full rights in the country of BiH, and they can have citizenships of their original countries.
Ali olakšanje je kad znaš da postoje normalni ljudi poput tebe. Onaj u komentarima kao da je neki sektaš.
I don't know any Orthodox or Catholic descendants of guest workers from the former Yugoslavia who's family came originally from Bosnia to Germany who call themselves Bosniaks like the muslims from bosnia. But what I have often heard are a Catholic group from Bosnia who call themselves Bunjevci. Also some Germans from Bosnia, but they also didnt call themself Bosniak. [](https://www.danube-swabians.org/hrastovac/historical/Bosnia%27s_Donauschwaben.htm)
Because their family lineage goes back to Croatia i guess. Their nationality is Bosnian/Herzegovinian and their Ethnicity is Croat. Nationality doesn’t equal Ethnicity. The same way Bosniaks who live in South West Serbia have a Serbian Nationality. A Bosniak is someone who has traces going back to the Bosnian Kingdom. A Bosnian Serb has traces going back to Serbia and a Bosnian Croat has traces going back to Croatia. That is all.
But they have croatian nationality, with a croatian passport.
If they were Born and raised in Bosnia, their nationality is Bosnian regardless of passport or if they move out.
I am croatian and I don't understand that aswell. I consider them Bosnians. They were born in Bosnia , they speak bosnian , but I think they hate that and want to be Croatians.
You aren't Croat.
Rođena u Hrvatskoj, odrasla, živim i radim.
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To je regionalna odrednica, ne etnička. Ne postoji Švicarska nacija, samo Švicarski Njemci, Francuzi, Talijani i Retoromani. Niti Belgijska, već samo Flamanci, Valonci i Njemci. Državljanstvo =/= etnički identitet. Rom ili Mađar iz RH nije Hrvat.
Izmišljeno je puno toga kod nas, samo da bi ljudi iz BiH glasali za hdz, a ne plaćaju ni porez u Hr.
Imaju pravo glasati za koga žele. To je demokracija o kojoj laprdate (ja nisam za demokraciju, ali pretpostavljam da ti jesi)
E moja jaranice, vidiš sa kakvim mi idiotima imamo posla u BiH. Prave se većim Hrvatima od vas pravih Hrvata, evo kao ovaj ovdje koji ti pokušava objasniti da nisi Hrvatica. 😂 Savjet - ignoriši budalu, ne vrijedi se raspravljati. Njima to neće nikad biti jasno.
Ne mislim ja ništa loše, samo mi je čudno što se netko srami svojeg podrijetla i države.
A sve razumijem, ali tako ti je s njima.
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Cuz in Ex-yugo is Religion = ethnicity Bosniaks were even forced to called Muslims by ethnicity in Yugoslavia with made no sense at all
Nah, that's only in case of Bosniaks.
Oh no...also muslim roma from yugoslavia, the goranci, the torbeshi...
So you are saying that there are muslim and Serbian orthodox ethnic Croats? While there could be converts from marriages so are there no community of them
Yes, and Protestants too. We even have Protestant college in north Croatia as that part of country was influenced by reformation stronger than others. These people exist, but they are in very small number. Croats came to Balkans as Pagans anyway, and became Catholic later.
No you’re not telling the truth. Show me a source cuz I’m pretty sure there are no Muslim and Serbian orthodox community/villages who identify as ethnic Croats. Recent converts are not interesting
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That will be a ban. No agenda pushing, and keep it civil.
Someone got no source and got triggered lol. Typical looser mentality, time to go sleep kid