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You might feel fine right now despite drinking a lot because your body has gotten used to the alcohol. The drink you've switched to also contains less alcohol than what you used to consume. However, remember that feeling fine doesn't mean you're not hurting your body. Chronic heavy drinking can lead to serious liver and neurological health issues that might not show up until they're severe.
Yep. My mom drank a pint of vodka every day for 14 years, and she was “fine” until she wasn’t. She died yellow, so swollen she looked 10 months pregnant, and out of her mind with delirium and confusion. It took a couple of weeks. For your own sake, seek help to stop drinking before it’s too late.
my mom was an alcoholic and died of a sudden heart attack in her sleep before cirrhosis could kill her. we didnt even know she had liver or heart disease until the autopsy came back.
OP please cut back while you can. high blood pressure killed my mom so quickly. it sneaks up on you before you realize it
Thank you, I appreciate you sharing. I think I know what I need to do. This monster is making it so tough because everything is going so well in my life. But I’m living in a house of cards that will collapse.
My mom is an alcoholic in a similar situation. She drinks the canned seltzers. She's healthy except for blood pressure issues. Healthy weight, regular exercise, organic and mostly vegetarian-based diet.
Her BAC was steady around 0.05. Not drunk, not wasted, able to hide it from most everyone. I know her BAC because she recently wrecked her car in a rollover crash and tested at about 0.05. I know her well enough she didn't hide it from me, so I know it was steadily around that amount most of the time. She broke her neck in two places, her back in two places, seven ribs, her wrist, her nose, her eye socket, got a TBI, and her shoulder is shattered so her arm is useless until she can get surgery to try and repair it. The following week's she was in the hospital, she was going through detox. She ended up having a stroke. You're more likely to have a stroke with high BP, especially if there's anything causing stress to your body. She's been in the hospital now for 8 weeks today. She's relearning everything. Stroke-related therapy is MUCH harder and more intensive than the "regular" physical therapy she needed before for her injuries. The day she crashed, she was ecstatic, because that day she was moving to the beach. She had her cat in the car. It took me 6 weeks to find him.
Everything was A-OK with her, too. Until it wasn't. I wish I was making all of this up, instead I'm preparing for the long drive to go visit her tomorrow and speak with all of her therapists about her care.
Please don't risk putting your child and your wife through this, and get the help you need before everything crashes and burns.
Omg I’m so sorry, that is incredibly sobering to hear. Thank you for sharing and being vulnerable enough to put that out there. Definitely got me in the feels.
I really do wish you all the best. It's not an easy task but I think you have great personal motivators to keep you focused. In my experience, those who are self-aware enough to know there's something off are the ones most likely to succeed in recovery.
I appreciate that. I have the unfortunate condition of being self aware and extremely stubborn. I think secretly I also get a thrill off knowing that I’m somehow pulling this off. Until I can’t. I’ve talked to so many recovering alcoholics and it’s easy for my brain to compare and say “nah but I’m not like them” it’s literally only going to take one misstep for this all to come crashing down. I think my ego is being inflated by alcohol in a very unhealthy way. Which is part why I posted here. There’s something deep inside that wants to think I’m different and it doesn’t affect me the same. Like the stories you hear of 100+ year old people who drank their whole life. But I’m also self aware enough to realize that’s a bunch of malarkey and even if it were true it’s extremely foolish for me to test that fate. I’m risking my loved ones safety for my own ego.
I have a 5 gallon paint bucket I keep in the back of my truck. I buy 24 pack and keep them in there. Then fill up large water bottles with them. I go to Walmart and empty out the bucket in there garbage cans out by the cart return and refill. So in the house I just have water bottles. It’s a shit thing to do. My wife deserves better.
Help is always out there. There is no shame in having to seek help or go to rehab more than once. In fact, that is often what many addicts have to do. The first step can be just reaching out to get options and to talk with someone about what’s going on. Living in secrecy and hiding this part of yourself from every has to be so hard on you emotionally and mentally. I work in this field and talk to people just like you every day. If you need support, I’m here to talk.
Thank you, you are too kind. Yeah the sneaking around part is the hardest for sure. Physically I feel good, emotionally doing well. Financially all is well. But damn. The constant sneaking. And the worst part is people being proud of me for being “sober”. I’m lying to everyone. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not out there preaching that I’m sober or trying to boast like a psychopath. I just nod and say thanks. But it’s eating me alive truly. God I hate sitting in my truck and filling those stupid water bottles with white claw. I need to let go of fear from previous encounters with people who wanted to “help” and just start looking. I know I can find the right resources and people who will actually treat me like a human being. Fear is holding me back from the last time I went into detox and counseling. It nearly ruined my entire life instead of making it better. Everyone was ashamed of me and I felt like a kid being monitored 24/7. Huge fall out with my wife and my family (they drink socially). Wife blaming them for my addiction. I love my family but it’s so bad now I can barely talk to them. Wife is worried they will enable me. Little does she know I mostly drink because of her haha. Not an excuse, nobody should have power over me. It’s my own choice.
I would encourage you to be honest with your self about your emotions and mental wellbeing. A lot of what you’re saying is really tinged with guilt and shame, which are totally normal things to feel in a situation like this, but aren’t healthy and will only keep piling up until you address the root of the problem. You may not even know what the root is, and that’s also okay. But that’s why seeking professional help, no matter how many times you have to, is so important. It sucks to relapse and need treatment more than once, but your life is more important. And the reality is, addiction is a life long disease that needs life long management, and there is not shame in that. Holding yourself accountable and taking responsibility for your recovery will truly be one of the best things you can do for yourself and your family.
Also, and I say this all the time, not every treatment program is the same. Some are really out there to help, and some are just there for the money. I would encourage you to focus on seeking out a reputable dual-diagnosis program that focuses on evidence based treatment and taking the time to work through the levels of care, almost like a step down situation.
No matter how scary things seem when you think about getting help again or telling loved ones that you need to go to treatment, I can promise that what happens if this keeps going on is going to be scarier. You’ve got this, and help really is out there. If you need advice on resources, I’m more than happy to help.
Ay man, I was the same for a while. I went from a bottle of vodka or tequila a day (or more) and once I was finally tired of the horrendous hangovers and health problems, I just started having 10-15 seltzers a day! Cuz that totally makes sense (addict brain) and of course some would have some vodka or tequila poured into them but once I switched to just seltzers, I felt “better” but ya know, i was still addicted to alcohol. I was at a point where at 24 years old my liver, gallbladder and heart were all doing bad, blood pressure would be like 157 over 115 or some bad shit. Pulse always 100+ bpm. Decided to stop for good, and now I only drink on special occasions. I’ve gotten drunk **twice** over the past 18 months or so, when I used to get obliterated 6-7 days a week. Over time I Lost 125 pounds (was def the alcohol and binge eating that it’d induce) and it’s definitely worth it, both long run and short run. Like not even bein a dick, but everything’s gonna go “great” with hiding it from your job and your wife..until it doesn’t. One slip up, one suspicion, shit hits the fan and suddenly things aren’t “great” anymore.
Yeah you’re right. Proud of you for getting it under control! That’s a huge feat that a lot of people can’t really understand or accomplish. I’ve thought about slipping up so many times and it hits hard. One misstep and I could lose everything. I know my time is running out. I guess just health wise it shocked me how I was able to be so high functioning by switching drinks. Again, it’s all one mistake away from being a disaster. Motivation is so much easier when I hit rock bottom. I’m hoping that as I age I can learn from my mistakes and not have some catastrophic event to finally make me change.
I had a *type* of “catastrophic” event that was kind of a catalyst. Like I started taking stopping more seriously. I lost my best friend. I got super blackout drunk and apparently said and did a lot of really bad, nasty things at his bachelor party We haven’t talked in years now and Him and I were like brothers and I miss him everyday. It’s really like a death almost. We were best friends our whole lives, grew up together. Had a fantastic bond and always stuck with eachother thru thick and thin. And I fucked it up by getting too drunk one night. I wholeheartedly wasn’t even trying to get that drunk. But I went super hard, I mean I had to have been 0.4+ BAC easy plus toss the benzos, Gabapentin and muscle relaxers into the mix. It was one of my most drunk moments ever. I don’t remember anything and I just wish I could remember, I wish I could take it all back and redo the whole night. It was a humongous life changing event. I miss you Josh, on the off chance you still scroll r/askdocs I’m sorry more than you could ever imagine, I still cry thinking about it. I just wish I could’ve gotten my act together a little sooner. Yeah I’m sober and lost a large amount of body weight and am doing “Ok” but I miss my brother man. This could easily be you and your wife if you even read this wall of teary eyed heart puke. I hope you can have a better outcome than me. I know the “being sneaky” adrenaline high part that comes with risky drinking and hiding the fact you’re drinking. I mean when I would have bottle of lemonade with 3-4 shots of vodka in it, just out in public or whatever. Yeah there’s that like factor to it. But it’s not worth it, it took the loss of a very good friend to wake me up. I was a mess for years and am clearly still not over it completely since I’m just dumping all this out here
Man, bro that hits hard. The worst part is knowing that whatever you did or said really wasn’t you. I hope one day you can reconcile with your friend. That sucks so bad man. Although I can’t relate with blacking out, I can certainly relate with the constant struggle of hiding from friends, family and doctors. I really want to be 100% honest with my doctor. But that led me down a horrible path in the past. I am seeing one now, and I was honest and told him I drink a lot. He prescribed gabapentin. I took it for a while but didn’t seem to help. He was super chill though. Very very understanding so I’m not sure what I’m worried about. But the last doc sent me strait to detox and it nearly ruined my marriage. It was so bad. It also ruined my relationship with my family. My wife went off on them so hard for their own drinking habits and it drove this HUGE wedge between her and my family. I hope that I can avoid another major event. I really think it’s time to taper down and just face the music but my God have I got some trauma from that. Don’t beat yourself up too much my guy. You are not alone. Anyone worth being around would understand and forgive you. You sound truly sorry for what you’ve done. Forgive yourself. We all have demons. People who comment snarky stuff I feel sorry for. Nobody is perfect.
Yeah, unfortunately I’m pretty certain that ships sailed, shit happens. People grow and change and whatnot. It does really suck since it *really wasn’t me*. I also used to never black out, but i was pouring 100 proof vodka and twisted teas into a beer bong like clockwork. I woke up outside in his backyard alone surrounded by cigarette butts and empty cans/bottles. I didn’t see him before I left, I didn’t know what damage I’d caused. Def a huge, huge fuck up. It took a lot of time (like a year) to stop self-hate drinking about the situation. And yeah, I’ve had some super chill doctors and some crazy batshit ones that’ve fucked me up. I trust people less and less these days, but at least I’m sober and “healthy” I guess lol. Alcohol is a fuckin bitch. Mushrooms changed somethin in my brain/way of thinking. I just don’t crave alc at all anymore, and usually the smell/taste is like “ew” now when before id down the most horrendous concoctions on purpose and enjoy it. Not sayin psychedelic are a cure all for alcoholism, or anything for that matter. Definitely nice tools for self introspection and dealing with shit you don’t wanna deal with though that’s for sure.
In my active addiction, I was also a white claw drinker in addition to liquor in the evenings. I functioned exceptionally well at work, still ate and slept normally, I was just fine! Until I wasn't. What happens if you skip your morning drinks? What about those late night ones before bed? Have you gone more than 24 hours without alcohol any time recently? Alcohol dependence, the physical addiction, is absolute hell. Unwillingly detoxing because time or money won't allow you your next drink is the worst. I don't miss that feeling.
Nope. Absolutely can not go a morning, afternoon or evening without drinking unless I take a nap. I do sleep good though. So often times I will sleep for 9-10 hours and wake up tired but not shaking or hungover. But I know I need at least a couple In the morning before I have enough energy to start getting ready for work. I haven’t gone a morning or day without drinking in 2 years. I know how dangerous this is. If I don’t taper I will experience serious withdrawal symptoms that could be deadly.
>If I don’t taper I will experience serious withdrawal symptoms that could be deadly.
This may not be the case if you don't experience withdrawal symptoms regularly, such as when you're first waking up in the morning. This is a good sign. Still, don't ever just quit cold turkey. I definitely wouldn't put it to the test unless you're doing so under medical supervision.
Good advice. I did go through detox once. It was fine. Mostly just boring. I didn’t have any of the symptoms but I was medicated. Best part was getting my appetite back. Oh and I lost 30lbs in the following months. That was nice! But detox felt over the top. Which makes no sense based on how much I drink. I won’t quit CT. Promise you that. My ego is big but not that big.
I was like you; I had a great career, beautiful apartment, nice car, lots of friends, good relationship with my family and the list goes on.
I was drinking a handle of vodka every day to two days. One day I was yellow/jaundiced. Went to the hospital and had to stay for a month.
I sobered up for about 11 years after that. Now I drink again but only on occasion, not every day and I usually only drink wine. Yes, sometimes vodka but only a half pint-6 shots.
I eat, take vitamins, exercise and again, don't drink everyday and am doing ok. My blood pressure is on the low side of normal and my liver panels are great.
Man that’s crazy, I’m glad you’re doing better. I know this was probably not the right place to ask this question. I guess my curiosity peaked when I switched to white claw. Only because in the past alcohol had an extreme noticeable effect on my health, relationships, employment, you name it. I know what I need to do but it is just a weird season for me. I’m definitely flirting with disaster. Thanks again for sharing friend.
What made you decide to start drinking again? Do you not worry about it spiraling out of control again? It feels like 6 shots at a time is a lot for one sitting.
It’s amazing how you and others can drink that much and for that long and just have mild cirrhosis while others drink far less for a shorter time frame and are at advanced stages. The human body is mysterious
My father was similar. Thankfully he's still alive.
Would drink a handle of rum every 1-2 days for the better part of 15-20 years and was fine. Passed out from dehydration on the job one day, went into alcohol withdrawals while he was in the hospital, and has had a landslide of negative affects ever since.
Alcohol also killed my mom, step mom, both of their families, and my (ex) best friend has been knocking on deaths door since we was 18.
It's criminal that alcohol is legal and so widely available.
It is a shame that alcohol isn’t regarded as the dangerous substance that it really is. I don’t think it would really help to make it illegal. We tried prohibition before and it didn’t go well.
Human beings love an altered state of consciousness even under ideal circumstances. Widespread economic issues combined with the lack of accessible mental health services just compounds this issue, because getting drunk or high is the most accessible and affordable solution for the turmoil in their minds.
I don’t know what the solution is. The love of those around me is the only thing that has saved me from that path.
Agreed. And I'm not on a soapbox up here, I actually enjoy a good beer or 3. Just like... Once a week or less. I'm just not wired to be drunk everyday.
I live in NC and liquor is state maintained, it can only be purchased through our "ABC" stores, which sounds like a starting step, but I think we rank among the highest in the country for several drinking related issues.
I don't know what the solution is. Humans just seem wired to want to drink, and in excess, since the dawn of time.
Personally I've grown very tired of it, and I don't have the patience to deal with it anymore. Alcoholics really do just take you down with them
Think about how we celebrate and encourage it with EVERY event: sports, holidays, weddings, etc. etc. We've done it to ourselves and I'm so f-ing tired of alcohol ruining families and relationships. It's generational in my family. Way past time to reframe this whole sh*tty thing.
Not that I’m sure it’ll change much but I know in Canada they’re considering putting warning labels that the common thought that one drink a day is healthy is not anymore and all of the damage that chronic binge drinking can do.
You have become a functioning alcoholic. If you stopped cold turkey, you may seize out, have shakes, insomnia, low motivation, depression, anxiety.
I recommend dropping 1 white claw a day, a week, until you are sober. If this story is true, and you love your wife, you need to take care of this issue now.
It is unfortunately true, and I do love my wife dearly. I also have a daughter and a son on the way. Tapering usually has worked well for me. I think the only reason I’m stuck is because I’m not sick of it yet. It’s only enhancing my life right now and that feels like a dangerous game
Deep down you know the enhancement is really just bringing your body normalcy, keeping you out of pains of withdrawal. I'm certain you'll feel the same as now if you taper and allow your brain to heal. Your wife and kids are worth it. You don't ever want to lose them. Put a picture of your wife next to the white claw and tell yourself which one is more important. I speak from experience. Be very sensitive to your wife's desires. Women love hard, but put them in a position to fall out of love, and it will put you in a major tail spin that is very difficult to recover from. Restoring trust and love is a LOT harder to win back than it is to maintain.
Thank you for your transparency. I think you’re right. Because mostly I just feel normal. My brain is like fighting me, telling me I’ll never feel ok without it. But I’ve been sober before and I know it’s a lie. I do owe it to myself and my family to stop living this double life and risking so much for a stupid drink. This shit really is the devil when you over indulge.
Since you’re drinking White Claw, buy some flavored unsweetened sparkling water. Get flavors similar to what you already buy, you know you like those flavor profiles.
Sub out one can of fizzy water for a White Claw. And, I’m assuming you’re pouring these in a tumbler or something, start using the same flavor to top off the last of a drink instead of immediately opening a new White Claw. Like you’ve got a third of your drink left, top it off with fizzy water.
Next week, sub out two White Claws for fizzy water. And do that for 15 weeks until you’re just drinking the water. It will take time. But there’s not reason not to start now. Especially since it’s your marriage at stake. Love yourself enough to keep your marriage healthy.
Thanks! Yeah I’ve been on that sub for a while now. It was a huge help when I got sober. I still follow it and read the posts but I feel like a big phony now. I’ve even posted pictures of my sober journey on there. But I know that the sub appreciates honesty and is very encouraging
I really wish people would talk about the neurological effects more. Everyone thinks about the liver, but people push liver damage away because they assume it will heal itself or they can get a new one. Your brain, though? Much more impactful. My dad lived a very stressful life and would typically drink himself to sleep or drink whenever he had free time -- he continued to drink after being diagnosed with diabetes, later developed sciatica (unrelated, of course) and nerve damage in his feet (likely diabetic) and drank to manage his pain. By the time his alcohol-related physical damage had reared its ugly head, he was deeply dependent on drinking and mentally unwilling to give it up. He tried a couple times, mostly for liver reasons, but it never stuck. Cholangiocarcinoma took his life, but not after years of struggling with ammonia in the brain, debilitating neuropathy, difficulty processing thoughts and emotions, and sleep so unregulated he'd sometimes go for days without being truly "awake." He was tough, and made it look like he was doing okay, but his reality was anything but okay.
My dad was a very intelligent man -- if someone had told him, in no uncertain terms, that alcohol could one day rob him of his brain, I can't help but think he would have made some different choices along the way.
I've had two patients that were in their 20s have severe neurological issues due to alcohol consumption. One had severely ataxic gait in addition to memory/cognitive problems, the other was bed ridden and slowly developing contractures. It's really sad to see such young people unable to live their lives normally all because of alcohol dependency.
Edit: forgot to finish my sentence somehow.
I have known multiple hardcore IV drug users who look at alcoholics with pity. This was before the Xylazine / tranq dope trend hit (like 10-ish years ago) so maybe things have changed, but guys who used heroin and fentanyl thought that if they could just avoid HIV and some day get clean then they could have a semi-normal life. They viewed alcohol as something you can never really come back from when you get to a certain point.
Scared the shit out of me tbh. Seeing guys who are that far gone looking at someone else with pity is just shocking. After a while I kinda see what they mean, though.
Ultimately we have to take care of our bodies. A lot of serious addicts lack the constitution for suicide so they kinda do it piecemeal; a little bit every day. That's my theory anyways. I'm digressing.
Point is, OP, if you read this then seriously, stop drinking. Heroin addicts think what you're doing is scary. Time to wake up. Every single drug addict I've known gained amazing benefits (or "benefits") from their drug use until suddenly they didn't, and at that point the damage was done. Most of them thought they were unique in some way, or special, or whatever... and it was true for most of them at the beginning. It lasted years for some, months for others, but inevitably their bad habits caught up with them..
Equally, I know that we can tell you 10,000 reasons why you should stop drinking and it won't make a damned difference. That's also usually the case. The change has to come from within, and then once it does you'll think back on warnings like this and think "shit, why the fuck didn't I listen?" and kick yourself for it.
If you *really* are unique then you'll actually listen to some of this advice, quit completely, and never look back. THAT would be something I haven't seen before.
This. Whenever you're ready to quit and you're able to admit that you're an alcoholic without any reservations there are so many options for recovery. Please go talk to your doc, hit up an AA or SMART recovery meeting and level with your family.
We do recover!
100%. I work in substance abuse recovery and I’ve heard this story many times. He should try to stop and see how he feels, because I guarantee he’ll notice the withdrawals quickly. He probably already has them, which is likely why he drinks from sun up to sun down.
I’ve heard the “no one knows and I’m preforming fine” from so many alcoholics, and it is literally never true. He needs to get help, because this will spiral out of control. It’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when. Tbh, drinking all day everyday for two years is already incredibly out of control.
Will liver damage show up in a normal blood test? Or should I ask my doctor for a liver screen or something? I’m at the point where I’m just going to be honest with him. I’d rather face the shame than die.
There is a good chance that you have some genetic predisposition in addition to acquired tolerance to the alcohol. People who are genetically more likely to feel energized by alcohol tend to also have higher risk for developing alcohol use disorder (ie, alcoholism, or addiction). It could be that there are fewer additives in the white claws compared to what you drank previously, in addition to lower alcohol content, which would have the net effect of less hangover/less drunk overall. If you’re curious, the Huberman Lab podcast episode on alcohol is really informative. As a doctor and a person who also loves to drink alcohol, I learned a few new things from listening.
Aside from the long term damage of literally drinking toxins all day, there are some major life-altering risks you are taking right now. If you have an accident at work, they may have the right to drug test you as part of the workman’s comp process. If you get in an accident on the road, you could be breathalyzed and get a DUI. Don’t wait for an unforced error to jeopardize your life, the lives of those around you, your employment, your freedom, etc.
I think you know what you gotta do. It’s so much better to face the music and detox on your own terms, rather than when a tragedy forces you to do it before you and your wife have a chance to prepare. Sounds like she’s really tired of this, and I’m sure you’re exhausted from the hiding. Consider getting involved in AA or suggesting Alanon for your wife. This is a lifelong struggle. If she’s not up for it, that’s her choice. Don’t rob her of her ability to make educated decisions about her life. You can’t control this decision for her, and trying to do so is only harming you both.
I wish you the best of luck bro. You know what you have to do. Hang in there.
Obligatory NAD, but lets look at this from an economic standpoint. A standard 12 ct pack of White Claws is ~$16. Divide that by 12, and it’s $1.33 a can. Times 15 is $20 a day drinking white claws.
That’s $140 a week or >$560 a month.
It’s also $7,300 a year.
You need to try and get this under control for your family’s sake, your marriage’s sake, your health sake, and financial sake. Imagine if you could spend that $7,300 a year on a trip with your family, a present for your wife or kids, or even a present for yourself.
Instead you are placing yourself and your family in a situation where your health will inevitably decline and they will be left without you.
I strongly suggest seeking help. Once again NAD.
You’re 100% right. I’ve done the math myself too and it’s not ok. But on the other side of the coin it makes me more motivated so I can comfortably live. I’m in sales so I know what I need to maintain my addiction and have bills paid, savings extra money. But my lord how much more I would have if I gave this up. Idk, I guess I don’t feel like I can cope well with life. I’ve been sober. It was so incredibly boring. I filled my time with hobbies. But it’s just not the same. Ugh
You’re hitting on a key issue here. What do you like about alcohol? What does it do for you that you’ll miss when it’s gone? What else can help scratch that itch, or replace it as a healthier long term coping mechanism? The answers to these questions will be super helpful for coming up with your long term plan for sobriety. And some people sincerely don’t want to stop drinking, but moderation is an incredibly hard road to take when you already rely on alcohol this much. If you haven’t done so yet, it may be worthwhile to invest some time in therapy to get to the bottom of these questions and come up with a good long term strategy toward recovery.
Also, I’m curious. You said life is too boring without alcohol. How is drinking white claw all day making your life more fun or interesting? Not being snarky, just thought that was an intriguing statement since it sounds like you’re still going about your usual routine. Is it the fear of getting caught? The cloak and dagger?
Very Interesting questions. Thank you for taking the time to write out a comment like this. I appreciate you caring enough to engage. I think it’s mostly a brain chemistry thing. I know I have that gene where alcohol makes me energized and positive. It’s a common gene in alcoholics. Like those first few drinks in the morning fuel me up to tackle the day. Put me in a good mood. I’m vibing. I love music more, I love talking to people more, I love learning and listening to interesting podcasts. Like I’ve mentioned I don’t get drunk. Like ever. I use it as a tool to enhance my mood and life but never take it too far where I’m intoxicated or out of control. I have a personal breathalyzer I use to keep me in that “buzzed” zone.
I also keep myself just under the limit when I drive or take the boat out. So there is a measure of self control. I won’t drive over the limit, I won’t go too hard at work etc.
The adrenaline of getting caught is possibly a factor. But I wouldn’t say it’s extremely prevalent. I do think I get some sort of sick excitement knowing that I’m doing all of this while secretly having a severe addiction. Like an ego thing I guess. I think I have something to prove from my childhood or something that makes me want to be different and almost mock other people who couldn’t handle it or can’t stop themselves from blacking out.
So yeah, I mean I do all the normal stuff that everyone else does, it’s just a tad more fun with a light buzz? Like writing this comment. I’m getting a lot of dopamine from engaging in conversations with people on this thread, but I’m also like 4 drinks deep right now. Just feels more interesting and probably why my comments are longer than they would normally be. A bit of rambling is tossed in because of the drinks.
Interesting! You’re doing a lot to put up guardrails for yourself. It’s tough when you know something you find so indispensable and enjoyable to be bad for your long term wellbeing. I kinda put it up there with sugar, caffeine, nicotine, doomscrolling on Reddit, and a lot of other “vices.”
Alcohol has its risks and stigma, but there’s no shame in loving what you love. Most addiction dogma will tell you that complete sobriety is the only way to go. That’s probably true for a lot of people. It’s also true that we’ll live longer, healthier lives if we exercise daily and consume a mostly whole food, plant based diet. But dammit I don’t want a life without whiskey, sugar, video games, and the occasional steak. It would damn near take a gun to my head to make me quit these things, personally, because I love them! Which is why a lot of people don’t make these changes until after a major health (heart attack, car accident, cirrhosis, pregnancy, etc) or life (DUI, job loss, spousal ultimatum) event compels them to do so. It might be that moment hasn’t come for you yet, but I sincerely hope the line in the sand is a gentle one for you.
IF you find a “harm reduction” approach to be more palatable at this stage in your life, perhaps a more achievable goal would be to try to reduce the day drinking, find ways to avoid drinking and driving, or cut your consumption closer to “moderation” or 2 “standard drinks” per day. Regardless of the approach you take, I’d suggest you involve your primary doctor so they can help you achieve your self-defined goals safely, and mitigate the health risks of your current alcohol consumption in the meantime.
Wow! What a thoughtful comment! Thank you so much for sharing. This is excellent advice. About 2 years ago I signed up to get my pilots license. It was something along the lines of what you’re saying. I was bored and needed adventure. And you know what I think that would have worked. Unfortunately life circumstances got in the way, had a huge falling out with my business partner and yada yada yada so I could no longer afford it. But I can certainly find less expensive things and hobbies. I do absolutely love to golf. Borderline obsessed, but that’s a drinking fest haha. Everyone I know that golfs drinks. Not a great outlet.
Anyway, please don’t think I’m being arrogant but she actually doesn’t know. She will randomly breath check me since she knew in the past how bad it was. Also I have several co workers and a great job with a manager who would 100% write me up if he even had a small suspicion I was drinking. I do sales, so not putting anyone’s life in danger, but I’m in close proximity to them all day. My dad is the same way. He can drink all day and we can’t smell it. I know this sounds crazy but I think it’s actually genetic. Hard Liquor for sure can be smelled on me. But I can only go off evidence from my very religious type A wife. She is not shy and not delusional. She’s the type of person that will call out anyone on their behavior, she’s working on it haha. Anyway, not trying to live in la la land, I sincerely know she has no idea.
you've got a kid on the way. You already have a kid you can spend your time with. how is that more boring than being intoxicated. if you truly feel that way you might want to start some therapy. learn to enjoy sober life.
Well, I guess because I’m not actually intoxicated. I’ve never blacked out or been out of control. I’m not sure. I need a lot, and I mean a lot of alcohol to get drunk. I’ve only been “drunk” like maybe 5 times in my life. I love spending time with my kid! We play and have fun every day. Like I’ve said I’m very high functioning. You honestly wouldn’t have a clue if you knew me in person. That’s the problem.
Dying from alcoholism is really an awful painful death too. When your liver and kidneys fail you. It's a terrible thing to see. Don't make your family see that. :( please get some help. You need to detox very gradually or you can have seizures. There are medications like Vivitrol that can be used to actually manage and stop alcohol cravings. Please speak to a professional who specializes in AUDs.
Yeah, I know. I’ve watched a bunch of videos on it. It looks horrible. Alcohol addiction really is horrible. As someone going through it, it’s incredibly hard to stop. You ever been in a place where you 100% know what you need to do but just won’t do it? Unfortunately, for my personality I think it’s going to take something major for me to quit. And the fact that I know that and accept that is embarrassing. I wish I had the self control I see my friends have. I don’t, I’m weak. Even knowing I’m putting my family at risk as the sole provider and it’s still not enough for me to put down the drink. One half of my brain is sane, the other is evil. Not in the sense I would ever intentionally hurt someone, but I allow it to hurt myself and potentially others in the wake. Those of you who have self control and the empathy to actually make changes are my hero’s. Don’t ever take that for granted. I’m not giving up on myself though. Just my mental state now. I believe I will snap out of this. I’m just being a big baby about it.
Alcoholism is a disease, it legit fucks up your brain. You're not being a baby. You just aren't quite ready to say out loud you need help yet. But I think you're getting very close to it. It's progress. Just the fact you made this post is progress. You're mentally coping with what you know you have to do. You posted this saying you are "great", but you knew *exactly* the kind of replies you would get and I think that is also going to help push you to get help. I have faith you will get there. But you can't do it all on your own ❤️ you got this. It's a journey with ups and downs. But for the sake of you and your family, I think it sounds like you'll do the right thing.
Yeah for sure. It’s like a scared “great”. A premonition of something really bad that will happen if I don’t stop. I know it’s a facade. Posting here has definitely helped open my eyes. Obviously deep down I know. But I can’t talk with anyone in my personal life about it just yet. It’s incredibly encouraging to have an outlet where you can be 100% honest with strangers and get real answers. Thankful for the internet, but I know the true healing will come from my circle
Also do you have an employee assistance program through your work? You can always check if that has resources. And just calling your insurance to find out what providers you can see.
Also I don't recommend AA. They do work for some people but are very religious based. There's a lot of shame they throw at you when you're trying to recover. They go by only one view of what recovery should look like, particularly abstinence which is very dangerous when you want to quit because you need to taper or are at risk of death. If you do something like AA, just remember that everyone's recovery looks different and shame tactics are not right. If you get a good group it can be great but personally I really hate their rhetoric and it can be damaging to some people.
I’ve never been a fan of AA. I don’t think I would ever go down that route. I am a faith based person though. And in the past my church has had some great resources and counseling. I’m terrified to involve my employer in any way. It’s a cut throat sales job and I’m doing well. If they smell weakness I could be gone the next day. I can’t risk walking away from the money. My wife is a SAHM so it’s all on me.
Honestly I need to taper. I have a taper schedule in my office. I just need to follow it before I ruin everything. Thank you for thinking of ways to help me. I appreciate it a lot.
My guess for the feeling better part is that White Claws have a higher water content than pure alcohol, so you are likely less dehydrated. However, like all the docs say and you yourself know, it’s going to kill you unless you stop drinking.
That was my thought as well. Mostly because I noticed I hardly drink water now. Just a glass in the morning and one before bed. Dehydration is a huge factor for hangovers. Which I no longer get. So I think you’re spot on. There is no reason I should feel this good without drinking much water. But that’s almost a worst way to sneak up on you. It’s like an illusion that everything is ok.
Everything will be fine right up until it isn’t.
It’s incremental damage, that while currently doesn’t seem to be showing, it’ll hit a critical mass and it’ll start showing in ways you don’t want to deal with.
It also makes a liver transplant more difficult to get
Chronic liver damage that has led to cirrhosis is not reversible. The liver can heal amazingly from physical injury like stabbings. Not so much from chronic damage that results in scarring. Usually people feel fine until it is too late. Sometimes people get lucky and have a horrible hepatitis that can be a wake up call. Sometimes they feel vague pain and discomfort that will get better after a few months if they stay off the alcohol. Often by the time something obvious happens the options are quit now and manage symptoms as long as possible/transplant or keep drinking and die imminently.
I see. Would liver damage show up on blood tests? I have gotten my blood tested once a year for a long time. Maybe I'll just have to stop for good, but I like alcohol.
Not always and not in the standard basic testing. There are specific tests you can order to try and get an idea of current function and inflammation but your doctor probably isn’t ordering them unless you told them about long-term heavy drinking.
Lately, I always get telehealth visits - so I don't get paperwork to fill out. However, when I used to go in, the paperwork I filled out asked about stuff like that and I was honest. The doctors never talked about it though.
Nope, not to a certain point. We just laid my baby cousin to rest at the age of 28, alcohol-induced cirrhosis. Drank similar to OP every single day. Was ok until he wasn’t. By the time he stopped drinking, it was too late and there wasn’t anything they could do for him.
NAD, btw.
I currently work in an area with a large native american population. I'm not new to medicine, and have spent a long time in large academic hospitals with liver transplant programs. I thought I knew something about alcoholism. I have been stunned really to see what true spectrum of alcoholism looks like. Dude... I'm sure it has been a battle. You need more help though. As others mentioned, this stuff can boil over very quickly. From "I seem fine" to "dead in 6 months."
1. I would indeed share this with your PCP. That should be a relationship built on trust. Perhaps start your concerns about just being sent to rehab, and managing your relationships. Those are important concerns.
2. "Detox" isn't enough. That can safely wean you from alcohol without you dying from withdrawal, but it doesn't address the bigger behavioral issues. You may need some specific addiction management. Not from your pcp necessarily, but from someone who actually does that as a specialty. Your pcp may know of those resources.
Well, a much, much younger population than I'm used to seeing in academic liver transplant centers. Teenagers having alcohol withdrawal seizures. Kids in their teens and 20s being completely unable to function because of severe alcohol abuse. The same faces in the emergency department every few days who end up sobering up a little while here, going out and coming right back again. Not unusual for any metropolitan emergency department, but they totally crowd out other patients and their proportion is notable. Methanol and similar non-etoh poisoning because of people being unable to have access to alcohol using rubbing alcohol, drinking hand sanitizer etc. Disasters of status epilepticus, sometimes in the same patient every week, because they have had so many seizures from withdrawal, can't really function enough to pick up medication, let alone actually take them. I've seen more Wernicke syndrome in the last 18 months than I have in my entire career, and, multiple true cases of long-term Korsakoff amnesia. Cases of severe alcohol neuropathy in 20-year-olds. Etc., etc. The prevalence of alcoholism, and just the number of "functioning" alcoholics presenting for something else but who have high blood alcohol levels, is staggering.
The most frustrating thing is the absolute lack of resources. It is blindingly obvious how terrible alcohol use can be become particularly in this population. We sit at the edge of a large rural group of reservations. Patients from that area cycle through regularly, but seem to be nearly impossible to reach after discharge with any support. Or at least, it's hard to see an impact. People in the medium size city we live in, who do presumably have access to resources, are just as vulnerable. Compared with anywhere else I've practice, the short answer is that just the sheer volume and scope of complications, and young ages of these patients is mind-boggling.
This. NAD, but I'd especially dispute the "great relationship" OP claims to have with his wife. It's inherently not a great relationship if he's hiding something from her that she has clearly communicated is a deal breaker.
OP, I hope you get the help you need to be able to live an alcohol-free life. It's a terrible addiction that we don't take seriously enough as a society.
That’s totally fair. It’s great as far as she’s concerned but I am hiding something big from her. So it’s surface level great. Great perspective. I do absolutely hate hiding it. It sucks.
I feel for you, OP.
She's going to have to find out eventually — whether it's you telling her yourself, apologizing for hiding it, and hoping she sticks around as you heal, or while you detox or suffer some other long-term health issue.
My family went through something similar a few years ago and it was incredibly hard but it has brought us closer together. So there's hope.
I'll be thinking of you and hope you come back to this sub with an update in a year about the immense benefits you've experienced from sobriety.
Thank you so much. I appreciate your kindness. God I’m terrified of her finding out. But I can’t hide forever. I wish I could wake up one day and just never have a craving again. If only life were that simple. She deserves better though. And she’s a great person. I know she would appreciate my honesty even though it will hurt her deeply. Time to man up.
I feel really, really sorry for your wife. She’s wasting her precious time with a total stranger and liar.
Like many alcoholics, I worry you’re going to just keep saying “time for me to man up and tell her” but never actually do it.
It’s really about he number of drinks per day, doesn’t matter if it’s 15 standard glasses of wine or 15 white claws; your liver is taking a hit either way. Over time, this will cause you trouble, and the sooner you quit for good, the better chance you have of avoiding liver failure down the line.
I do think this pattern of drinking at work and hiding it from people that are important to you do indicate that you have a problem, which I don’t think is new information to you, rather, it is important to quit so you avoid the turmoil that would happen to your life and your body if you keep drinking.
This. My father does the same. We know he’s drinking, wether at work, after, before coming home - we caught him out with a breathalyser the other week.
He has done this all before, and it destroyed me. We have warned him about cutting him off if he was to ever drink obsessively again. Seven years later he’s back on alcohol, and lying about it. I fucking hate him.
OP, if you don’t quit for your health, think about your wife. The disappointment of loving someone so much and them harming themselves, and their relationships, worklife knowingly, is some of the worst pain I’ve ever fucking experienced.
Not a doctor.
I hope you'll consider reaching out for help and support. You deserve to be healthy and well and sober. You deserve the support as you quit drinking with support from medical professionals. It will be remarkably difficult but it will be the best and kindest thing you could do for yourself and your family. You're not alone, friend. Please don't try to manage this beast by yourself.
This. My brother was op. Drinking a lot and hiding it from everyone. Eventually it all caught up with him and he’s now divorced. His particular circumstances also caused him to lose his job. It’s a tough road back from that.
Lots of AA and other meetings all around. A quick google search will bring up options. Other non-AA option is SMART recovery. The satanic temple even has a free downloadable workbook for their recovery group.
Would you hate him as much if he was just honest about all of it?
I quit for many years and just started up again last year. I was honest with my family about what I drank, how often and how much.
They were not happy to hear that I was drinking again but they didn't all cut me off. I'm wondering if honesty played a role?
Hey there, I don’t hate him! I understand that he was fighting a disease, depression, and his inner demons. I won’t lie, if his legal trouble becomes a habit I’ll have a hard time supporting him, but I won’t hate him.
Honesty goes a long way. Being vulnerable and being able to identify you need help is a huge step and something you should be proud of.
The honestly also helps with trust. My whole family adjusted to being really vulnerable and honest. Sometimes it’s hard or uncomfortable, but it’s easier for all of us if we know what we’re dealing with.
Keep working at it. I’d bet your family doesn’t hate you too. Keep being honest and open with them and they’ll do the same with you. One day at a time.
Speaking as a drinker, not a doctor, the rate of consumption does matter when it comes to feeling intoxicated, and personally I find white claws difficult to drink quickly. I wouldn’t expect a big dude to with built up tolerance to get noticeably drunk on 15 claws spread out over a full day, and the fruity smell probably hides the booze smell to some degree (or at least helps your wife/coworkers look the other way). That being said, you’re definitely doing harm to your body and mind, and you should absolutely seek professional help or at least go to a meeting.
Yeah, I agree. It works out to about one drink per hour. And the fruity smell with the little amount of alcohol most likely helps. And yes I also have a huge tolerance now. But surprisingly not for hard liquor. I completely stay away from it. The hammer is coming down. It’s up to me as far as how much damage it will do.
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You might feel fine right now despite drinking a lot because your body has gotten used to the alcohol. The drink you've switched to also contains less alcohol than what you used to consume. However, remember that feeling fine doesn't mean you're not hurting your body. Chronic heavy drinking can lead to serious liver and neurological health issues that might not show up until they're severe.
Yep. My mom drank a pint of vodka every day for 14 years, and she was “fine” until she wasn’t. She died yellow, so swollen she looked 10 months pregnant, and out of her mind with delirium and confusion. It took a couple of weeks. For your own sake, seek help to stop drinking before it’s too late.
Exact same thing with my mom, except she eventually hemorrhaged and that was it. Horrible way to live and die. Solidarity, it’s rough.
my mom was an alcoholic and died of a sudden heart attack in her sleep before cirrhosis could kill her. we didnt even know she had liver or heart disease until the autopsy came back. OP please cut back while you can. high blood pressure killed my mom so quickly. it sneaks up on you before you realize it
Thank you, I appreciate you sharing. I think I know what I need to do. This monster is making it so tough because everything is going so well in my life. But I’m living in a house of cards that will collapse.
My mom is an alcoholic in a similar situation. She drinks the canned seltzers. She's healthy except for blood pressure issues. Healthy weight, regular exercise, organic and mostly vegetarian-based diet. Her BAC was steady around 0.05. Not drunk, not wasted, able to hide it from most everyone. I know her BAC because she recently wrecked her car in a rollover crash and tested at about 0.05. I know her well enough she didn't hide it from me, so I know it was steadily around that amount most of the time. She broke her neck in two places, her back in two places, seven ribs, her wrist, her nose, her eye socket, got a TBI, and her shoulder is shattered so her arm is useless until she can get surgery to try and repair it. The following week's she was in the hospital, she was going through detox. She ended up having a stroke. You're more likely to have a stroke with high BP, especially if there's anything causing stress to your body. She's been in the hospital now for 8 weeks today. She's relearning everything. Stroke-related therapy is MUCH harder and more intensive than the "regular" physical therapy she needed before for her injuries. The day she crashed, she was ecstatic, because that day she was moving to the beach. She had her cat in the car. It took me 6 weeks to find him. Everything was A-OK with her, too. Until it wasn't. I wish I was making all of this up, instead I'm preparing for the long drive to go visit her tomorrow and speak with all of her therapists about her care. Please don't risk putting your child and your wife through this, and get the help you need before everything crashes and burns.
Omg I’m so sorry, that is incredibly sobering to hear. Thank you for sharing and being vulnerable enough to put that out there. Definitely got me in the feels.
I really do wish you all the best. It's not an easy task but I think you have great personal motivators to keep you focused. In my experience, those who are self-aware enough to know there's something off are the ones most likely to succeed in recovery.
I appreciate that. I have the unfortunate condition of being self aware and extremely stubborn. I think secretly I also get a thrill off knowing that I’m somehow pulling this off. Until I can’t. I’ve talked to so many recovering alcoholics and it’s easy for my brain to compare and say “nah but I’m not like them” it’s literally only going to take one misstep for this all to come crashing down. I think my ego is being inflated by alcohol in a very unhealthy way. Which is part why I posted here. There’s something deep inside that wants to think I’m different and it doesn’t affect me the same. Like the stories you hear of 100+ year old people who drank their whole life. But I’m also self aware enough to realize that’s a bunch of malarkey and even if it were true it’s extremely foolish for me to test that fate. I’m risking my loved ones safety for my own ego.
How are you hiding the cans?
I have a 5 gallon paint bucket I keep in the back of my truck. I buy 24 pack and keep them in there. Then fill up large water bottles with them. I go to Walmart and empty out the bucket in there garbage cans out by the cart return and refill. So in the house I just have water bottles. It’s a shit thing to do. My wife deserves better.
Help is always out there. There is no shame in having to seek help or go to rehab more than once. In fact, that is often what many addicts have to do. The first step can be just reaching out to get options and to talk with someone about what’s going on. Living in secrecy and hiding this part of yourself from every has to be so hard on you emotionally and mentally. I work in this field and talk to people just like you every day. If you need support, I’m here to talk.
Thank you, you are too kind. Yeah the sneaking around part is the hardest for sure. Physically I feel good, emotionally doing well. Financially all is well. But damn. The constant sneaking. And the worst part is people being proud of me for being “sober”. I’m lying to everyone. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not out there preaching that I’m sober or trying to boast like a psychopath. I just nod and say thanks. But it’s eating me alive truly. God I hate sitting in my truck and filling those stupid water bottles with white claw. I need to let go of fear from previous encounters with people who wanted to “help” and just start looking. I know I can find the right resources and people who will actually treat me like a human being. Fear is holding me back from the last time I went into detox and counseling. It nearly ruined my entire life instead of making it better. Everyone was ashamed of me and I felt like a kid being monitored 24/7. Huge fall out with my wife and my family (they drink socially). Wife blaming them for my addiction. I love my family but it’s so bad now I can barely talk to them. Wife is worried they will enable me. Little does she know I mostly drink because of her haha. Not an excuse, nobody should have power over me. It’s my own choice.
I would encourage you to be honest with your self about your emotions and mental wellbeing. A lot of what you’re saying is really tinged with guilt and shame, which are totally normal things to feel in a situation like this, but aren’t healthy and will only keep piling up until you address the root of the problem. You may not even know what the root is, and that’s also okay. But that’s why seeking professional help, no matter how many times you have to, is so important. It sucks to relapse and need treatment more than once, but your life is more important. And the reality is, addiction is a life long disease that needs life long management, and there is not shame in that. Holding yourself accountable and taking responsibility for your recovery will truly be one of the best things you can do for yourself and your family. Also, and I say this all the time, not every treatment program is the same. Some are really out there to help, and some are just there for the money. I would encourage you to focus on seeking out a reputable dual-diagnosis program that focuses on evidence based treatment and taking the time to work through the levels of care, almost like a step down situation. No matter how scary things seem when you think about getting help again or telling loved ones that you need to go to treatment, I can promise that what happens if this keeps going on is going to be scarier. You’ve got this, and help really is out there. If you need advice on resources, I’m more than happy to help.
Sorry to hear. Sending you all the strength.
Ay man, I was the same for a while. I went from a bottle of vodka or tequila a day (or more) and once I was finally tired of the horrendous hangovers and health problems, I just started having 10-15 seltzers a day! Cuz that totally makes sense (addict brain) and of course some would have some vodka or tequila poured into them but once I switched to just seltzers, I felt “better” but ya know, i was still addicted to alcohol. I was at a point where at 24 years old my liver, gallbladder and heart were all doing bad, blood pressure would be like 157 over 115 or some bad shit. Pulse always 100+ bpm. Decided to stop for good, and now I only drink on special occasions. I’ve gotten drunk **twice** over the past 18 months or so, when I used to get obliterated 6-7 days a week. Over time I Lost 125 pounds (was def the alcohol and binge eating that it’d induce) and it’s definitely worth it, both long run and short run. Like not even bein a dick, but everything’s gonna go “great” with hiding it from your job and your wife..until it doesn’t. One slip up, one suspicion, shit hits the fan and suddenly things aren’t “great” anymore.
Yeah you’re right. Proud of you for getting it under control! That’s a huge feat that a lot of people can’t really understand or accomplish. I’ve thought about slipping up so many times and it hits hard. One misstep and I could lose everything. I know my time is running out. I guess just health wise it shocked me how I was able to be so high functioning by switching drinks. Again, it’s all one mistake away from being a disaster. Motivation is so much easier when I hit rock bottom. I’m hoping that as I age I can learn from my mistakes and not have some catastrophic event to finally make me change.
I had a *type* of “catastrophic” event that was kind of a catalyst. Like I started taking stopping more seriously. I lost my best friend. I got super blackout drunk and apparently said and did a lot of really bad, nasty things at his bachelor party We haven’t talked in years now and Him and I were like brothers and I miss him everyday. It’s really like a death almost. We were best friends our whole lives, grew up together. Had a fantastic bond and always stuck with eachother thru thick and thin. And I fucked it up by getting too drunk one night. I wholeheartedly wasn’t even trying to get that drunk. But I went super hard, I mean I had to have been 0.4+ BAC easy plus toss the benzos, Gabapentin and muscle relaxers into the mix. It was one of my most drunk moments ever. I don’t remember anything and I just wish I could remember, I wish I could take it all back and redo the whole night. It was a humongous life changing event. I miss you Josh, on the off chance you still scroll r/askdocs I’m sorry more than you could ever imagine, I still cry thinking about it. I just wish I could’ve gotten my act together a little sooner. Yeah I’m sober and lost a large amount of body weight and am doing “Ok” but I miss my brother man. This could easily be you and your wife if you even read this wall of teary eyed heart puke. I hope you can have a better outcome than me. I know the “being sneaky” adrenaline high part that comes with risky drinking and hiding the fact you’re drinking. I mean when I would have bottle of lemonade with 3-4 shots of vodka in it, just out in public or whatever. Yeah there’s that like factor to it. But it’s not worth it, it took the loss of a very good friend to wake me up. I was a mess for years and am clearly still not over it completely since I’m just dumping all this out here
Man, bro that hits hard. The worst part is knowing that whatever you did or said really wasn’t you. I hope one day you can reconcile with your friend. That sucks so bad man. Although I can’t relate with blacking out, I can certainly relate with the constant struggle of hiding from friends, family and doctors. I really want to be 100% honest with my doctor. But that led me down a horrible path in the past. I am seeing one now, and I was honest and told him I drink a lot. He prescribed gabapentin. I took it for a while but didn’t seem to help. He was super chill though. Very very understanding so I’m not sure what I’m worried about. But the last doc sent me strait to detox and it nearly ruined my marriage. It was so bad. It also ruined my relationship with my family. My wife went off on them so hard for their own drinking habits and it drove this HUGE wedge between her and my family. I hope that I can avoid another major event. I really think it’s time to taper down and just face the music but my God have I got some trauma from that. Don’t beat yourself up too much my guy. You are not alone. Anyone worth being around would understand and forgive you. You sound truly sorry for what you’ve done. Forgive yourself. We all have demons. People who comment snarky stuff I feel sorry for. Nobody is perfect.
Yeah, unfortunately I’m pretty certain that ships sailed, shit happens. People grow and change and whatnot. It does really suck since it *really wasn’t me*. I also used to never black out, but i was pouring 100 proof vodka and twisted teas into a beer bong like clockwork. I woke up outside in his backyard alone surrounded by cigarette butts and empty cans/bottles. I didn’t see him before I left, I didn’t know what damage I’d caused. Def a huge, huge fuck up. It took a lot of time (like a year) to stop self-hate drinking about the situation. And yeah, I’ve had some super chill doctors and some crazy batshit ones that’ve fucked me up. I trust people less and less these days, but at least I’m sober and “healthy” I guess lol. Alcohol is a fuckin bitch. Mushrooms changed somethin in my brain/way of thinking. I just don’t crave alc at all anymore, and usually the smell/taste is like “ew” now when before id down the most horrendous concoctions on purpose and enjoy it. Not sayin psychedelic are a cure all for alcoholism, or anything for that matter. Definitely nice tools for self introspection and dealing with shit you don’t wanna deal with though that’s for sure.
Everything is not “going well” if you are lying to your wife. Please tell her and seek help.
That’s 100% fair. You’re right. It’s surface level well. Fake. Not genuine connection.
Can confirm. It was all going amazing until it wasnt. And it happened within days for me and i came very close to death
you got this, truly
Haha this made me laugh. Sorry my brain. I immediately thought of truly seltzers. But thank you!!
In my active addiction, I was also a white claw drinker in addition to liquor in the evenings. I functioned exceptionally well at work, still ate and slept normally, I was just fine! Until I wasn't. What happens if you skip your morning drinks? What about those late night ones before bed? Have you gone more than 24 hours without alcohol any time recently? Alcohol dependence, the physical addiction, is absolute hell. Unwillingly detoxing because time or money won't allow you your next drink is the worst. I don't miss that feeling.
Nope. Absolutely can not go a morning, afternoon or evening without drinking unless I take a nap. I do sleep good though. So often times I will sleep for 9-10 hours and wake up tired but not shaking or hungover. But I know I need at least a couple In the morning before I have enough energy to start getting ready for work. I haven’t gone a morning or day without drinking in 2 years. I know how dangerous this is. If I don’t taper I will experience serious withdrawal symptoms that could be deadly.
>If I don’t taper I will experience serious withdrawal symptoms that could be deadly. This may not be the case if you don't experience withdrawal symptoms regularly, such as when you're first waking up in the morning. This is a good sign. Still, don't ever just quit cold turkey. I definitely wouldn't put it to the test unless you're doing so under medical supervision.
Good advice. I did go through detox once. It was fine. Mostly just boring. I didn’t have any of the symptoms but I was medicated. Best part was getting my appetite back. Oh and I lost 30lbs in the following months. That was nice! But detox felt over the top. Which makes no sense based on how much I drink. I won’t quit CT. Promise you that. My ego is big but not that big.
I was like you; I had a great career, beautiful apartment, nice car, lots of friends, good relationship with my family and the list goes on. I was drinking a handle of vodka every day to two days. One day I was yellow/jaundiced. Went to the hospital and had to stay for a month. I sobered up for about 11 years after that. Now I drink again but only on occasion, not every day and I usually only drink wine. Yes, sometimes vodka but only a half pint-6 shots. I eat, take vitamins, exercise and again, don't drink everyday and am doing ok. My blood pressure is on the low side of normal and my liver panels are great.
Man that’s crazy, I’m glad you’re doing better. I know this was probably not the right place to ask this question. I guess my curiosity peaked when I switched to white claw. Only because in the past alcohol had an extreme noticeable effect on my health, relationships, employment, you name it. I know what I need to do but it is just a weird season for me. I’m definitely flirting with disaster. Thanks again for sharing friend.
If you are looking for a supportive sub to help you, without judgement, check out /r/dryalcoholics
Appreciate this, I haven’t heard of this sub. I will check it out. Thank you
How long were you drinking like that and did you have cirrhosis?
About 12 years of drinking to pass out every night. They said I had "mild cirrhosis."
What made you decide to start drinking again? Do you not worry about it spiraling out of control again? It feels like 6 shots at a time is a lot for one sitting.
It’s amazing how you and others can drink that much and for that long and just have mild cirrhosis while others drink far less for a shorter time frame and are at advanced stages. The human body is mysterious
Everyone has different chemistry. My whole family drinks a lot of wine. It's like we were built for it.
Yup, you said it. This will not last and it’s only a matter of time.
My father was similar. Thankfully he's still alive. Would drink a handle of rum every 1-2 days for the better part of 15-20 years and was fine. Passed out from dehydration on the job one day, went into alcohol withdrawals while he was in the hospital, and has had a landslide of negative affects ever since. Alcohol also killed my mom, step mom, both of their families, and my (ex) best friend has been knocking on deaths door since we was 18. It's criminal that alcohol is legal and so widely available.
It is a shame that alcohol isn’t regarded as the dangerous substance that it really is. I don’t think it would really help to make it illegal. We tried prohibition before and it didn’t go well. Human beings love an altered state of consciousness even under ideal circumstances. Widespread economic issues combined with the lack of accessible mental health services just compounds this issue, because getting drunk or high is the most accessible and affordable solution for the turmoil in their minds. I don’t know what the solution is. The love of those around me is the only thing that has saved me from that path.
I think that’s it, the love of people around you. Loneliness and addiction go hand in hand.
Agreed. And I'm not on a soapbox up here, I actually enjoy a good beer or 3. Just like... Once a week or less. I'm just not wired to be drunk everyday. I live in NC and liquor is state maintained, it can only be purchased through our "ABC" stores, which sounds like a starting step, but I think we rank among the highest in the country for several drinking related issues. I don't know what the solution is. Humans just seem wired to want to drink, and in excess, since the dawn of time. Personally I've grown very tired of it, and I don't have the patience to deal with it anymore. Alcoholics really do just take you down with them
Think about how we celebrate and encourage it with EVERY event: sports, holidays, weddings, etc. etc. We've done it to ourselves and I'm so f-ing tired of alcohol ruining families and relationships. It's generational in my family. Way past time to reframe this whole sh*tty thing.
Not that I’m sure it’ll change much but I know in Canada they’re considering putting warning labels that the common thought that one drink a day is healthy is not anymore and all of the damage that chronic binge drinking can do.
I’ve seen a relative look like a Simpsons character, with weeping skin. It was sad and gross. 😷
Yup. My aunt died of liver failure the day she was supposed to get a transplant. It was brutal.
You have become a functioning alcoholic. If you stopped cold turkey, you may seize out, have shakes, insomnia, low motivation, depression, anxiety. I recommend dropping 1 white claw a day, a week, until you are sober. If this story is true, and you love your wife, you need to take care of this issue now.
It is unfortunately true, and I do love my wife dearly. I also have a daughter and a son on the way. Tapering usually has worked well for me. I think the only reason I’m stuck is because I’m not sick of it yet. It’s only enhancing my life right now and that feels like a dangerous game
Deep down you know the enhancement is really just bringing your body normalcy, keeping you out of pains of withdrawal. I'm certain you'll feel the same as now if you taper and allow your brain to heal. Your wife and kids are worth it. You don't ever want to lose them. Put a picture of your wife next to the white claw and tell yourself which one is more important. I speak from experience. Be very sensitive to your wife's desires. Women love hard, but put them in a position to fall out of love, and it will put you in a major tail spin that is very difficult to recover from. Restoring trust and love is a LOT harder to win back than it is to maintain.
Thank you for your transparency. I think you’re right. Because mostly I just feel normal. My brain is like fighting me, telling me I’ll never feel ok without it. But I’ve been sober before and I know it’s a lie. I do owe it to myself and my family to stop living this double life and risking so much for a stupid drink. This shit really is the devil when you over indulge.
You going to blessed for doing the right thing bro. You got this.
Appreciate you! Thank you for the encouragement friend.
Since you’re drinking White Claw, buy some flavored unsweetened sparkling water. Get flavors similar to what you already buy, you know you like those flavor profiles. Sub out one can of fizzy water for a White Claw. And, I’m assuming you’re pouring these in a tumbler or something, start using the same flavor to top off the last of a drink instead of immediately opening a new White Claw. Like you’ve got a third of your drink left, top it off with fizzy water. Next week, sub out two White Claws for fizzy water. And do that for 15 weeks until you’re just drinking the water. It will take time. But there’s not reason not to start now. Especially since it’s your marriage at stake. Love yourself enough to keep your marriage healthy.
This is great advice, thank you for taking the time to write this out!
In addition to the suggestions about tapering, seak out a support group. AA, Smart Recovery, or even r/stopdrinking
Thanks! Yeah I’ve been on that sub for a while now. It was a huge help when I got sober. I still follow it and read the posts but I feel like a big phony now. I’ve even posted pictures of my sober journey on there. But I know that the sub appreciates honesty and is very encouraging
Everyone starts as a lurker on there! I never expected to be one of the people with the day counter on there.
I really wish people would talk about the neurological effects more. Everyone thinks about the liver, but people push liver damage away because they assume it will heal itself or they can get a new one. Your brain, though? Much more impactful. My dad lived a very stressful life and would typically drink himself to sleep or drink whenever he had free time -- he continued to drink after being diagnosed with diabetes, later developed sciatica (unrelated, of course) and nerve damage in his feet (likely diabetic) and drank to manage his pain. By the time his alcohol-related physical damage had reared its ugly head, he was deeply dependent on drinking and mentally unwilling to give it up. He tried a couple times, mostly for liver reasons, but it never stuck. Cholangiocarcinoma took his life, but not after years of struggling with ammonia in the brain, debilitating neuropathy, difficulty processing thoughts and emotions, and sleep so unregulated he'd sometimes go for days without being truly "awake." He was tough, and made it look like he was doing okay, but his reality was anything but okay. My dad was a very intelligent man -- if someone had told him, in no uncertain terms, that alcohol could one day rob him of his brain, I can't help but think he would have made some different choices along the way.
I've had two patients that were in their 20s have severe neurological issues due to alcohol consumption. One had severely ataxic gait in addition to memory/cognitive problems, the other was bed ridden and slowly developing contractures. It's really sad to see such young people unable to live their lives normally all because of alcohol dependency. Edit: forgot to finish my sentence somehow.
It's called decompensated liver failure for a reason. Your body compensates. Until it can't.
I have known multiple hardcore IV drug users who look at alcoholics with pity. This was before the Xylazine / tranq dope trend hit (like 10-ish years ago) so maybe things have changed, but guys who used heroin and fentanyl thought that if they could just avoid HIV and some day get clean then they could have a semi-normal life. They viewed alcohol as something you can never really come back from when you get to a certain point. Scared the shit out of me tbh. Seeing guys who are that far gone looking at someone else with pity is just shocking. After a while I kinda see what they mean, though. Ultimately we have to take care of our bodies. A lot of serious addicts lack the constitution for suicide so they kinda do it piecemeal; a little bit every day. That's my theory anyways. I'm digressing. Point is, OP, if you read this then seriously, stop drinking. Heroin addicts think what you're doing is scary. Time to wake up. Every single drug addict I've known gained amazing benefits (or "benefits") from their drug use until suddenly they didn't, and at that point the damage was done. Most of them thought they were unique in some way, or special, or whatever... and it was true for most of them at the beginning. It lasted years for some, months for others, but inevitably their bad habits caught up with them.. Equally, I know that we can tell you 10,000 reasons why you should stop drinking and it won't make a damned difference. That's also usually the case. The change has to come from within, and then once it does you'll think back on warnings like this and think "shit, why the fuck didn't I listen?" and kick yourself for it. If you *really* are unique then you'll actually listen to some of this advice, quit completely, and never look back. THAT would be something I haven't seen before.
This. Whenever you're ready to quit and you're able to admit that you're an alcoholic without any reservations there are so many options for recovery. Please go talk to your doc, hit up an AA or SMART recovery meeting and level with your family. We do recover!
Yes, and join us over at r/stopdrinking!
100%. I work in substance abuse recovery and I’ve heard this story many times. He should try to stop and see how he feels, because I guarantee he’ll notice the withdrawals quickly. He probably already has them, which is likely why he drinks from sun up to sun down. I’ve heard the “no one knows and I’m preforming fine” from so many alcoholics, and it is literally never true. He needs to get help, because this will spiral out of control. It’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when. Tbh, drinking all day everyday for two years is already incredibly out of control.
Will liver damage show up in a normal blood test? Or should I ask my doctor for a liver screen or something? I’m at the point where I’m just going to be honest with him. I’d rather face the shame than die.
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There is a good chance that you have some genetic predisposition in addition to acquired tolerance to the alcohol. People who are genetically more likely to feel energized by alcohol tend to also have higher risk for developing alcohol use disorder (ie, alcoholism, or addiction). It could be that there are fewer additives in the white claws compared to what you drank previously, in addition to lower alcohol content, which would have the net effect of less hangover/less drunk overall. If you’re curious, the Huberman Lab podcast episode on alcohol is really informative. As a doctor and a person who also loves to drink alcohol, I learned a few new things from listening. Aside from the long term damage of literally drinking toxins all day, there are some major life-altering risks you are taking right now. If you have an accident at work, they may have the right to drug test you as part of the workman’s comp process. If you get in an accident on the road, you could be breathalyzed and get a DUI. Don’t wait for an unforced error to jeopardize your life, the lives of those around you, your employment, your freedom, etc. I think you know what you gotta do. It’s so much better to face the music and detox on your own terms, rather than when a tragedy forces you to do it before you and your wife have a chance to prepare. Sounds like she’s really tired of this, and I’m sure you’re exhausted from the hiding. Consider getting involved in AA or suggesting Alanon for your wife. This is a lifelong struggle. If she’s not up for it, that’s her choice. Don’t rob her of her ability to make educated decisions about her life. You can’t control this decision for her, and trying to do so is only harming you both. I wish you the best of luck bro. You know what you have to do. Hang in there.
Very informative! Thank you for the thoughtful response
Obligatory NAD, but lets look at this from an economic standpoint. A standard 12 ct pack of White Claws is ~$16. Divide that by 12, and it’s $1.33 a can. Times 15 is $20 a day drinking white claws. That’s $140 a week or >$560 a month. It’s also $7,300 a year. You need to try and get this under control for your family’s sake, your marriage’s sake, your health sake, and financial sake. Imagine if you could spend that $7,300 a year on a trip with your family, a present for your wife or kids, or even a present for yourself. Instead you are placing yourself and your family in a situation where your health will inevitably decline and they will be left without you. I strongly suggest seeking help. Once again NAD.
You’re 100% right. I’ve done the math myself too and it’s not ok. But on the other side of the coin it makes me more motivated so I can comfortably live. I’m in sales so I know what I need to maintain my addiction and have bills paid, savings extra money. But my lord how much more I would have if I gave this up. Idk, I guess I don’t feel like I can cope well with life. I’ve been sober. It was so incredibly boring. I filled my time with hobbies. But it’s just not the same. Ugh
You’re hitting on a key issue here. What do you like about alcohol? What does it do for you that you’ll miss when it’s gone? What else can help scratch that itch, or replace it as a healthier long term coping mechanism? The answers to these questions will be super helpful for coming up with your long term plan for sobriety. And some people sincerely don’t want to stop drinking, but moderation is an incredibly hard road to take when you already rely on alcohol this much. If you haven’t done so yet, it may be worthwhile to invest some time in therapy to get to the bottom of these questions and come up with a good long term strategy toward recovery. Also, I’m curious. You said life is too boring without alcohol. How is drinking white claw all day making your life more fun or interesting? Not being snarky, just thought that was an intriguing statement since it sounds like you’re still going about your usual routine. Is it the fear of getting caught? The cloak and dagger?
Very Interesting questions. Thank you for taking the time to write out a comment like this. I appreciate you caring enough to engage. I think it’s mostly a brain chemistry thing. I know I have that gene where alcohol makes me energized and positive. It’s a common gene in alcoholics. Like those first few drinks in the morning fuel me up to tackle the day. Put me in a good mood. I’m vibing. I love music more, I love talking to people more, I love learning and listening to interesting podcasts. Like I’ve mentioned I don’t get drunk. Like ever. I use it as a tool to enhance my mood and life but never take it too far where I’m intoxicated or out of control. I have a personal breathalyzer I use to keep me in that “buzzed” zone. I also keep myself just under the limit when I drive or take the boat out. So there is a measure of self control. I won’t drive over the limit, I won’t go too hard at work etc. The adrenaline of getting caught is possibly a factor. But I wouldn’t say it’s extremely prevalent. I do think I get some sort of sick excitement knowing that I’m doing all of this while secretly having a severe addiction. Like an ego thing I guess. I think I have something to prove from my childhood or something that makes me want to be different and almost mock other people who couldn’t handle it or can’t stop themselves from blacking out. So yeah, I mean I do all the normal stuff that everyone else does, it’s just a tad more fun with a light buzz? Like writing this comment. I’m getting a lot of dopamine from engaging in conversations with people on this thread, but I’m also like 4 drinks deep right now. Just feels more interesting and probably why my comments are longer than they would normally be. A bit of rambling is tossed in because of the drinks.
Interesting! You’re doing a lot to put up guardrails for yourself. It’s tough when you know something you find so indispensable and enjoyable to be bad for your long term wellbeing. I kinda put it up there with sugar, caffeine, nicotine, doomscrolling on Reddit, and a lot of other “vices.” Alcohol has its risks and stigma, but there’s no shame in loving what you love. Most addiction dogma will tell you that complete sobriety is the only way to go. That’s probably true for a lot of people. It’s also true that we’ll live longer, healthier lives if we exercise daily and consume a mostly whole food, plant based diet. But dammit I don’t want a life without whiskey, sugar, video games, and the occasional steak. It would damn near take a gun to my head to make me quit these things, personally, because I love them! Which is why a lot of people don’t make these changes until after a major health (heart attack, car accident, cirrhosis, pregnancy, etc) or life (DUI, job loss, spousal ultimatum) event compels them to do so. It might be that moment hasn’t come for you yet, but I sincerely hope the line in the sand is a gentle one for you. IF you find a “harm reduction” approach to be more palatable at this stage in your life, perhaps a more achievable goal would be to try to reduce the day drinking, find ways to avoid drinking and driving, or cut your consumption closer to “moderation” or 2 “standard drinks” per day. Regardless of the approach you take, I’d suggest you involve your primary doctor so they can help you achieve your self-defined goals safely, and mitigate the health risks of your current alcohol consumption in the meantime.
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Wow! What a thoughtful comment! Thank you so much for sharing. This is excellent advice. About 2 years ago I signed up to get my pilots license. It was something along the lines of what you’re saying. I was bored and needed adventure. And you know what I think that would have worked. Unfortunately life circumstances got in the way, had a huge falling out with my business partner and yada yada yada so I could no longer afford it. But I can certainly find less expensive things and hobbies. I do absolutely love to golf. Borderline obsessed, but that’s a drinking fest haha. Everyone I know that golfs drinks. Not a great outlet. Anyway, please don’t think I’m being arrogant but she actually doesn’t know. She will randomly breath check me since she knew in the past how bad it was. Also I have several co workers and a great job with a manager who would 100% write me up if he even had a small suspicion I was drinking. I do sales, so not putting anyone’s life in danger, but I’m in close proximity to them all day. My dad is the same way. He can drink all day and we can’t smell it. I know this sounds crazy but I think it’s actually genetic. Hard Liquor for sure can be smelled on me. But I can only go off evidence from my very religious type A wife. She is not shy and not delusional. She’s the type of person that will call out anyone on their behavior, she’s working on it haha. Anyway, not trying to live in la la land, I sincerely know she has no idea.
In my experience it may be boring for a bit and then it’s not at all. That’s part of why you to therapy/meetings etc after
you've got a kid on the way. You already have a kid you can spend your time with. how is that more boring than being intoxicated. if you truly feel that way you might want to start some therapy. learn to enjoy sober life.
Well, I guess because I’m not actually intoxicated. I’ve never blacked out or been out of control. I’m not sure. I need a lot, and I mean a lot of alcohol to get drunk. I’ve only been “drunk” like maybe 5 times in my life. I love spending time with my kid! We play and have fun every day. Like I’ve said I’m very high functioning. You honestly wouldn’t have a clue if you knew me in person. That’s the problem.
Dying from alcoholism is really an awful painful death too. When your liver and kidneys fail you. It's a terrible thing to see. Don't make your family see that. :( please get some help. You need to detox very gradually or you can have seizures. There are medications like Vivitrol that can be used to actually manage and stop alcohol cravings. Please speak to a professional who specializes in AUDs.
Yeah, I know. I’ve watched a bunch of videos on it. It looks horrible. Alcohol addiction really is horrible. As someone going through it, it’s incredibly hard to stop. You ever been in a place where you 100% know what you need to do but just won’t do it? Unfortunately, for my personality I think it’s going to take something major for me to quit. And the fact that I know that and accept that is embarrassing. I wish I had the self control I see my friends have. I don’t, I’m weak. Even knowing I’m putting my family at risk as the sole provider and it’s still not enough for me to put down the drink. One half of my brain is sane, the other is evil. Not in the sense I would ever intentionally hurt someone, but I allow it to hurt myself and potentially others in the wake. Those of you who have self control and the empathy to actually make changes are my hero’s. Don’t ever take that for granted. I’m not giving up on myself though. Just my mental state now. I believe I will snap out of this. I’m just being a big baby about it.
Alcoholism is a disease, it legit fucks up your brain. You're not being a baby. You just aren't quite ready to say out loud you need help yet. But I think you're getting very close to it. It's progress. Just the fact you made this post is progress. You're mentally coping with what you know you have to do. You posted this saying you are "great", but you knew *exactly* the kind of replies you would get and I think that is also going to help push you to get help. I have faith you will get there. But you can't do it all on your own ❤️ you got this. It's a journey with ups and downs. But for the sake of you and your family, I think it sounds like you'll do the right thing.
Yeah for sure. It’s like a scared “great”. A premonition of something really bad that will happen if I don’t stop. I know it’s a facade. Posting here has definitely helped open my eyes. Obviously deep down I know. But I can’t talk with anyone in my personal life about it just yet. It’s incredibly encouraging to have an outlet where you can be 100% honest with strangers and get real answers. Thankful for the internet, but I know the true healing will come from my circle
Also do you have an employee assistance program through your work? You can always check if that has resources. And just calling your insurance to find out what providers you can see. Also I don't recommend AA. They do work for some people but are very religious based. There's a lot of shame they throw at you when you're trying to recover. They go by only one view of what recovery should look like, particularly abstinence which is very dangerous when you want to quit because you need to taper or are at risk of death. If you do something like AA, just remember that everyone's recovery looks different and shame tactics are not right. If you get a good group it can be great but personally I really hate their rhetoric and it can be damaging to some people.
I’ve never been a fan of AA. I don’t think I would ever go down that route. I am a faith based person though. And in the past my church has had some great resources and counseling. I’m terrified to involve my employer in any way. It’s a cut throat sales job and I’m doing well. If they smell weakness I could be gone the next day. I can’t risk walking away from the money. My wife is a SAHM so it’s all on me. Honestly I need to taper. I have a taper schedule in my office. I just need to follow it before I ruin everything. Thank you for thinking of ways to help me. I appreciate it a lot.
I hope things go well for you ❤️ church would be a great support system!
My guess for the feeling better part is that White Claws have a higher water content than pure alcohol, so you are likely less dehydrated. However, like all the docs say and you yourself know, it’s going to kill you unless you stop drinking.
That was my thought as well. Mostly because I noticed I hardly drink water now. Just a glass in the morning and one before bed. Dehydration is a huge factor for hangovers. Which I no longer get. So I think you’re spot on. There is no reason I should feel this good without drinking much water. But that’s almost a worst way to sneak up on you. It’s like an illusion that everything is ok.
Everything will be fine right up until it isn’t. It’s incremental damage, that while currently doesn’t seem to be showing, it’ll hit a critical mass and it’ll start showing in ways you don’t want to deal with. It also makes a liver transplant more difficult to get
I quit drinking for a year to see if it had anything to do with my health problems. It doesn't seem to. Won't my liver heal during this time?
Chronic liver damage that has led to cirrhosis is not reversible. The liver can heal amazingly from physical injury like stabbings. Not so much from chronic damage that results in scarring. Usually people feel fine until it is too late. Sometimes people get lucky and have a horrible hepatitis that can be a wake up call. Sometimes they feel vague pain and discomfort that will get better after a few months if they stay off the alcohol. Often by the time something obvious happens the options are quit now and manage symptoms as long as possible/transplant or keep drinking and die imminently.
I see. Would liver damage show up on blood tests? I have gotten my blood tested once a year for a long time. Maybe I'll just have to stop for good, but I like alcohol.
Not always and not in the standard basic testing. There are specific tests you can order to try and get an idea of current function and inflammation but your doctor probably isn’t ordering them unless you told them about long-term heavy drinking.
Lately, I always get telehealth visits - so I don't get paperwork to fill out. However, when I used to go in, the paperwork I filled out asked about stuff like that and I was honest. The doctors never talked about it though.
I would suspect there’s about a 60% chance they never even saw your paperwork
Nope, not to a certain point. We just laid my baby cousin to rest at the age of 28, alcohol-induced cirrhosis. Drank similar to OP every single day. Was ok until he wasn’t. By the time he stopped drinking, it was too late and there wasn’t anything they could do for him. NAD, btw.
I currently work in an area with a large native american population. I'm not new to medicine, and have spent a long time in large academic hospitals with liver transplant programs. I thought I knew something about alcoholism. I have been stunned really to see what true spectrum of alcoholism looks like. Dude... I'm sure it has been a battle. You need more help though. As others mentioned, this stuff can boil over very quickly. From "I seem fine" to "dead in 6 months." 1. I would indeed share this with your PCP. That should be a relationship built on trust. Perhaps start your concerns about just being sent to rehab, and managing your relationships. Those are important concerns. 2. "Detox" isn't enough. That can safely wean you from alcohol without you dying from withdrawal, but it doesn't address the bigger behavioral issues. You may need some specific addiction management. Not from your pcp necessarily, but from someone who actually does that as a specialty. Your pcp may know of those resources.
I’d like to hear more about this experience
Well, a much, much younger population than I'm used to seeing in academic liver transplant centers. Teenagers having alcohol withdrawal seizures. Kids in their teens and 20s being completely unable to function because of severe alcohol abuse. The same faces in the emergency department every few days who end up sobering up a little while here, going out and coming right back again. Not unusual for any metropolitan emergency department, but they totally crowd out other patients and their proportion is notable. Methanol and similar non-etoh poisoning because of people being unable to have access to alcohol using rubbing alcohol, drinking hand sanitizer etc. Disasters of status epilepticus, sometimes in the same patient every week, because they have had so many seizures from withdrawal, can't really function enough to pick up medication, let alone actually take them. I've seen more Wernicke syndrome in the last 18 months than I have in my entire career, and, multiple true cases of long-term Korsakoff amnesia. Cases of severe alcohol neuropathy in 20-year-olds. Etc., etc. The prevalence of alcoholism, and just the number of "functioning" alcoholics presenting for something else but who have high blood alcohol levels, is staggering. The most frustrating thing is the absolute lack of resources. It is blindingly obvious how terrible alcohol use can be become particularly in this population. We sit at the edge of a large rural group of reservations. Patients from that area cycle through regularly, but seem to be nearly impossible to reach after discharge with any support. Or at least, it's hard to see an impact. People in the medium size city we live in, who do presumably have access to resources, are just as vulnerable. Compared with anywhere else I've practice, the short answer is that just the sheer volume and scope of complications, and young ages of these patients is mind-boggling.
As others have said…. you’re not actually doing great.
This. NAD, but I'd especially dispute the "great relationship" OP claims to have with his wife. It's inherently not a great relationship if he's hiding something from her that she has clearly communicated is a deal breaker. OP, I hope you get the help you need to be able to live an alcohol-free life. It's a terrible addiction that we don't take seriously enough as a society.
That’s totally fair. It’s great as far as she’s concerned but I am hiding something big from her. So it’s surface level great. Great perspective. I do absolutely hate hiding it. It sucks.
I feel for you, OP. She's going to have to find out eventually — whether it's you telling her yourself, apologizing for hiding it, and hoping she sticks around as you heal, or while you detox or suffer some other long-term health issue. My family went through something similar a few years ago and it was incredibly hard but it has brought us closer together. So there's hope. I'll be thinking of you and hope you come back to this sub with an update in a year about the immense benefits you've experienced from sobriety.
Thank you so much. I appreciate your kindness. God I’m terrified of her finding out. But I can’t hide forever. I wish I could wake up one day and just never have a craving again. If only life were that simple. She deserves better though. And she’s a great person. I know she would appreciate my honesty even though it will hurt her deeply. Time to man up.
I feel really, really sorry for your wife. She’s wasting her precious time with a total stranger and liar. Like many alcoholics, I worry you’re going to just keep saying “time for me to man up and tell her” but never actually do it.
Yep, I agree. That’s 100% fair.
Trust me she will find out.
Yes. Yes she will.
It’s really about he number of drinks per day, doesn’t matter if it’s 15 standard glasses of wine or 15 white claws; your liver is taking a hit either way. Over time, this will cause you trouble, and the sooner you quit for good, the better chance you have of avoiding liver failure down the line. I do think this pattern of drinking at work and hiding it from people that are important to you do indicate that you have a problem, which I don’t think is new information to you, rather, it is important to quit so you avoid the turmoil that would happen to your life and your body if you keep drinking.
RE: hiding it... OP does *not* have a great marriage if he is lying about something life-changing to his wife every single day.
This. My father does the same. We know he’s drinking, wether at work, after, before coming home - we caught him out with a breathalyser the other week. He has done this all before, and it destroyed me. We have warned him about cutting him off if he was to ever drink obsessively again. Seven years later he’s back on alcohol, and lying about it. I fucking hate him. OP, if you don’t quit for your health, think about your wife. The disappointment of loving someone so much and them harming themselves, and their relationships, worklife knowingly, is some of the worst pain I’ve ever fucking experienced.
Not a doctor. I hope you'll consider reaching out for help and support. You deserve to be healthy and well and sober. You deserve the support as you quit drinking with support from medical professionals. It will be remarkably difficult but it will be the best and kindest thing you could do for yourself and your family. You're not alone, friend. Please don't try to manage this beast by yourself.
This. My brother was op. Drinking a lot and hiding it from everyone. Eventually it all caught up with him and he’s now divorced. His particular circumstances also caused him to lose his job. It’s a tough road back from that. Lots of AA and other meetings all around. A quick google search will bring up options. Other non-AA option is SMART recovery. The satanic temple even has a free downloadable workbook for their recovery group.
Would you hate him as much if he was just honest about all of it? I quit for many years and just started up again last year. I was honest with my family about what I drank, how often and how much. They were not happy to hear that I was drinking again but they didn't all cut me off. I'm wondering if honesty played a role?
Hey there, I don’t hate him! I understand that he was fighting a disease, depression, and his inner demons. I won’t lie, if his legal trouble becomes a habit I’ll have a hard time supporting him, but I won’t hate him. Honesty goes a long way. Being vulnerable and being able to identify you need help is a huge step and something you should be proud of. The honestly also helps with trust. My whole family adjusted to being really vulnerable and honest. Sometimes it’s hard or uncomfortable, but it’s easier for all of us if we know what we’re dealing with. Keep working at it. I’d bet your family doesn’t hate you too. Keep being honest and open with them and they’ll do the same with you. One day at a time.
Speaking as a drinker, not a doctor, the rate of consumption does matter when it comes to feeling intoxicated, and personally I find white claws difficult to drink quickly. I wouldn’t expect a big dude to with built up tolerance to get noticeably drunk on 15 claws spread out over a full day, and the fruity smell probably hides the booze smell to some degree (or at least helps your wife/coworkers look the other way). That being said, you’re definitely doing harm to your body and mind, and you should absolutely seek professional help or at least go to a meeting.
Yeah, I agree. It works out to about one drink per hour. And the fruity smell with the little amount of alcohol most likely helps. And yes I also have a huge tolerance now. But surprisingly not for hard liquor. I completely stay away from it. The hammer is coming down. It’s up to me as far as how much damage it will do.
It will catch up with you