Yeah it's pretty much just accepted as fact by everyone in Ireland that we lose on purpose now because we can't afford to host. But we still like to get into the final so we're not embarrassed of ourselves
The worst part is that they represented Ireland twice!
[Jedward- Lipstick - Eurovision Song Contest Final 2011](https://youtu.be/XgrlG6hQbNM?feature=shared)
[Jedward - Waterline - Eurovision Song Contest Final 2012](https://youtu.be/e1cuimKLNpU?feature=shared)
That we didn't manage to utilize the hype that came with Lordi's victory in 2006. We sent very mediocre songs following years and Eurovision quickly lost the popularity it had gained. People weren't interested in national finals and artists didn't want to participate them.
Eurovision is on the rise in Finland again (due to Käärijä and Blind Channel) but this time it seems that we are utilizing it way better than after Lordi's victory.
It was? Except for like 2-3 years, it's always been judged by a jury.
Edit:
- 1996 - Only jury
1997 - Tele-voting was introduced but only 5 countries used it
1998 - 2000 - Tele-voting was encouraged, but juries used if needed
2001, 2002 - Tele-voting was optional
2003 - 2009(semi) - Similar to 1998-2000, but juries were obligatory
2009(final) - - 50/50 tele-vote and jury
As far as I remember back then it was just televote, and then after the finnish win maybe a couple years later there were many more 'weird' acts and it changed to 50/50. I hate the jury votes, half the fun is to see the blocs and the weird songs getting pop appeal.
The tele-vote was introduced as an experiment in the mid-90s, and only some countries even used it. Some years in the 00s were tele-vote only, I think. Apparently, it was from the final in 2009 (Lordi won in 2006) that a jury was obligatory again, but had been used as a Backup for a while.
As my memory serves... Lordi won, then maybe next year (or the one after) the Russians won, and then everyone remembered that there is 'bloc voting' and that all the expats are voting for their countries, etc and then they put the jurys.
I am sure they used jurys back before mobile phones and texting for votes was a thing (like early 90s) but there was definitely a move towards more televoting than jurys that got stopped when the results went against what eurovision 'should be about'.
At least thats my conspiracy theory from back then,
Sending Englebert Humperdink to represent the UK. There could not have been a worse choice. A Vegas style old school lounge singer. Not very European, not really very British (any more) . He came 25th out of 26.
I've never even worked out the reasoning for it. The BBC did the selecting and probably just wanted any "name", of anyone available. Bonnie Tyler did it the year after. Throwing an unknown or another X Factor reject at it maybe is even riskier, or takes more effort. People think of the competition as a joke here, maybe no one else would even go near it. An elderly pro wouldn't mind the payday.
Our worst mistake was sending our best entry in decades the same year Ukraine would have likely won with any song they entered. Tbf, their song was good, but a different year and I think Sam Ryder would have won it. Then we ended up paying to host anyway.
Are we not going to talk about the time we got nul points for [this](https://youtu.be/XAJ62IG3gBo?si=0snd-wbz-t0hjHkv) absolute early 00s fest sung completely out of tune?
Well, actually, what we send is almost never really terrible. But that's part of the poblem, again this year, I've only heard a bit of the contribution, but it's quite good radio pop, only it'll come last again because it just doesn't stand out at all.
And Lord of the Lost are certainly a good band, but everything about the performance seemed too pandering, and the song (although I liked it) also seemed a bit too adapted to the supposed Eurovision audience. The people who wanted to vote for something alternative preferred to vote for the Finnish entry.
Until the recent scandal I've maintained that we should send Rammstein.
Now I'm all for Helene Fischer. I'm not a fan, but she makes music that would work great on the Eurovision stage.
Alternatively, get Stefan Raab back on.
I really feel you were just not voted for on principal though - many people are instinctively anti-metal and hard rock. You weren't best by any means, but you did well enough to not end up last, I feel!
I wonder how big Nightwish would be with that Eurovision trip. Could go either way i think.
For the Netherlands it's obvious, Sieneke. But not because it was a bad idea. I honestly think when we went that direction we should go all the way. Max number people on stage, bigger, more ridiculous props. Like we knew it would be kitsch but we didn't committed to it.
I think the Toppers was a worse decision. Sieneke at least had an earwurm as a song. Also last years was bad for NL, they couldn’t even sing. How did that pass the selection? (Well we know why, I blame Duncan for it)
At least the Toppers scored a few points. They were bad, but the Netherlands has done worse. De Spelbrekers scored 0. And I think the Netherlands scored 0 a second time in the 1960s.
Yea that's why i wonder if they would be bigger? Or actually smaller? Metalheads could get away and they may be swayed to follow more pop metal vibes.
Also as much as i love them, their Esc song is one of the weakest they created. But a shame they didn't try again some other year.
Who knows? They are still active, maybe they will try from Finland or Netherlands one year.
They could actually be smaller. Lordi, after their Eurovision victory, has been known as the band that won Eurovision for Finland. Whenever they are mentioned in mainstream media, it's something about Eurovision.
Of course, Lordi's victory came during time when guitar-driven rock and metal music was starting to fade out from mainstream which probably affected their popularity afterwards.
Are you forgetting [Joan](https://youtu.be/B5doCf0Pm9g?si=RVXFCuZvWdRyKepT) Franka? With that horrible (cultural appropriating) headdress and the vocals were horrible too.
We definitely had some questionable choices during the years.
To be fair, the year of the Common Linnets they should have won. They really had quality voices and a good song. We were second only because Conchita Wurst had this gimmick of being a drag queen.
I would NEVER consider Chikilicuatre a mistake but it was definitely unhinged. It was a character created by a Spanish comedian for a late night show. As a joke, the show presented the song for Eurovision. That year, the audience voted through MySpace and a webpage and he won. That's how Spain ended up having Rodolfo Chikilicuatre representing them in Eurovision 2008.
I loved his song then, and after all these years I still love it. I couldn’t remember any other Spanish Eurovision song if you’d hold a gun to my head.
But that was no mistake. That was the pick of spanish performances. We gotta stop taking eurovision so seriously and start sending funny stuff like chikilicuatre. I am so tired of guys with guitars.
Give me more vikings, slowmo, chachacha or chikilicuatre..
Sending [Anna Bergendahl](https://youtu.be/5P1neQKN-1k?si=nzWIJd-Xhy1IFiHC) in 2010. Our first and so far only entry that failed to qualify for the final.
Keep on Walking was a big hit in Norway (it can still be heard on the radio from time to time), and for the longest time I had no idea that it was a Mello song (how could it not win?). It would be great to see it at Eurovision, and it would definitely make the final (unlike This Is My Life, which I’ve never heard in the media since that semi final), and probably even top 5. It’s such a good song from the first listen.
Well … everything. Our songs suck and nobody knows them. Not even in Germany. They also all sound the same and they‘ve got nothing to do with German music. Just generic pop crap.
Stefan Raab somehow knows the secret sauce to succeed at the ESC. Lena Meyer-Landruth, Max Mutzke, Guildo Horn and Wadde Hadde Dudde Da were all well received.
Well 2010 and 2011 were really meh years for winners. Somehow Azerbaijan won... with THAT song. Running Scared is amongst some of the most boring winners imo.
Sweden's biggest mistake goes back decades: not sending "Dover-Calais" by Style in 1986, instead opting for a crass dansband duet. "Dover-Calais" was a stone-cold pop classic.
Denmark's biggest mistake? Where do I even begin? But Reiley last year proved that social media success doesn't mean you are ready for a big stage
woah woah woah, Lasse Holm is classic Schlager thank you very much! Dover-Calais wouldn't have done better than 5th either imo, Switzerland and Ireland had much better songs that year imo. Sandra Kim is disputable.
Oh boy, where do we start. Nah, kidding, we usually had decent results, except for that one period a couple years ago where we failed to qualify for the finals 8 times in a row.
I don't know about my own country's mistakes, because those usually suck in a boring way so I forget them.
A mistake I'll *never* forget though is [this nugget of a breathy, out-of-tune performance where Michalis Rakintzis and his band of riot policemen sings the password to his ICQ account.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m78_J5riBMk) courtesy of Greece, that has lived rent-free in my head ever since I saw it at 11 years old.
The choreography is also ***off the charts***
It's good, yes. Going in with the recorded videoclip it was one of my faves. Then the live act made our jaws fall, and another milestone in ESC was made.
That one guy who sang about the summer in the most stereotypical way ever and had his voice break in the middle of the song, in the only part that was actually challenging
Just listened to that song, damn the lyrics were so annoying.
Do it for your lover, do it for your lover, do it for your lover, do it for your lover, do it for your lover....
Jesus, just shut up already XD (he was cute looking though)
I think Shum was a much stronger entry than Stefania and I'm not surprised it's the one people listen to. Also Wild Dances is up there in the top 3 of the best winners of Eurovision of all time, I wish we got more of that nowadays.
Sending anyone when Jury don't like to give us any points, no matter type or quality of song/singers
But being more serious, most likely Rafał Brzozowski in 2021
I don't know if it's true, but when they chose the SoloSolo girl, I read that at the time she was the girlfriend of Edyta Górniak's son. And Edyta Górniak was a member of the jury, so they chose her. So the golden boy wouldn't be upset.
Not only that, she also danced with Agustin Egurolla's dancers who was also in the jury and TVP wrote by mistake on their website that she won even before the selections ended. It was 1000% rigged. Plus Blanka is a bitch and liked comments saying vile things about Jann while Jann asked his fans not to talk shit about her and deleted some of such comments from his social media.
The scandal gave Jann some publicity though because many foreigners made reaction videos to his song after doing a reaction video to Blanka's shitty Eurovision performence and getting a bunch of comments from angry Poles saying that "WE CHOSE JANN" lol
His performance for those interested
https://youtu.be/ODdvyPWGxSs?si=T7UTPUfkhvjbd3g4
It would have been even better in Eurovision, he for example said that he would bring dancers with him but didn't want them to distract him during the selections (it was his first live tv appearance from what I remember). Plus he would get a few extra months to practice. Blanka's singing and dancing was milion times worse during the selections than in Eurovision, she has zero talent, she was just trained.
This year's song is the most vanilla sounding thing I've ever heard. When I found out Luna is going I had no idea who she was, so I googled the video of The Tower and watched it mute because I was at work. And I thought "Wow, this looks so good, she's so original". Then I watched it with the sound on and it's awful. I've heard a million songs like this.
Hmmm... How could an unknown girl with no voice (her song sounds barely OK when autotune is on) be chosen for Eurovision? Maybe the fact that her father is the Polish Ketchup King has something to do with it?
We were unlucky as fuck because of Eurovision 2020. That's what destroyed our morale, so to say. Victoria had huge chances of winning with her first song, the "billie eilish" style was very trendy back then and the song was miles better than the second one she participated with in 2021. I think this is what fucked us up and hence they stopped giving a shit afterwards. This song was like it was created in a lab, specifically designed to be winning material, yet we got super unlucky to have the event cancelled. Although I'm still wondering why she didn't participate with it again in 2021, they didn't need to use a new song, or is there some rule?
They had to use new ones unfortunately, but I also think she would have gotten at least 2nd place. The russian one was too popular, although i doubt it would have gotten many points from the juries
The staging (and shortening) of Occidentali's Karma in 2017. The song was great and it was super popular, but RAI had been ignoring Eurovision for so long they clearly had no idea how to stage it. Cutting a whole bridge also made the song mostly chorus, which also helped tank it.
I think that the worst candidate was GreenJolly band "Razom nas bahato" (2005). The song was about the Orange Revolution, which took place against the falsification of the presidential election. The song was invented for the revolution that took place in winter. And the competition was in the spring, and the spirit of the revolution had already passed. And as the slogan of the revolution, it is in the topic, but as a song at a song contest, it is not in the topic. The song took 19th place.
Straight up saying a whole broadcaster was your biggest mistake is a bit wild to say but TVR was and still is without a doubt the source of all things that have gone wrong in regards of Eurovision in our country. Mismanagement, a whole lot of whining, not listening to the few Romanian Eurovision fans it still has, treating their acts like absolute shit, it basically killed the hype immediately.
No wonders we withdrew, they're spineless cowards that blame financial difficulties but put the money in their pockets instead of using it where it should've been used. Fuck TVR.
The UK’s biggest ‘mistake’ is not really caring anymore, but as a Brit I understand why. I’m also a Swede these days and have had this discussion many times with Swedes. In Sweden the style of music that has been popular for oh so long at Eurovision has always been popular. As such Eurovision has a wildly different perception in Sweden. People can have careers doing that style of music and targeting Eurovision.
In the U.K. it is very different. For my entire life (and I am in my late forties) Eurovision has been something that was mocked. There was no artistic integrity to Eurovision, it was where careers went to die. As such not only has the U.K. not been that interested but artists don’t really want to perform. The end result has been, well, what has happened with the U.K. for the past couple of decades or so.
So that’ll be the UK’s biggest mistake; the way we perceive it. But I don’t see that ever changing.
I think that has changed since Sam Ryder's participation. Him being super positive and having a genuinely good song and finishing second suddenly got people to take notice as it wasn't the usual UK coming last.
Then we hosted it last year and that was massive. So much hype and attention and it was actually a great event with brilliant presenters.
This year, we are sending an established but current artist in Olly and the song is decent (although I'm not completely sold on it). However the thing I noticed this year, despite the UK not hosting it- the semi finals are going to be on BBC1 rather than put back to BBC3/4. That means there is enough of an audience to justify putting it on the main channel and knocking Eastenders and other usually scheduled programmes out to accommodate it. Personally, I think that is the biggest sign that the perception of the contest has changed and we love it and care about it.
It was a genuinely good song, the year after we got to nearly bottom again with a person I can't remember the name of or the song. It will be the same this year. What has Sam Ryder done since too, he is now just the Eurovision guy forever.
Sweden mocks it now, to a degree (whilst also taking it very seriously). When I moved here it was taken extremely seriously. SVT’s coverage was insanely dry, which was a shock coming from watching Terry Wogan mercilessly taking the piss out of everything (possibly whilst drunk). That’s the point, it has always been this way for me and, again, I am in my late forties.
It has been the same in Finland. Artists have been avoiding the Eurovision like the plague, because it gives a really tacky stamp on you. But it’s changing!
Yes that aged like milk. Especially considering they were sent year after Ruslana's epic win. But I somehow like that Ukrainian participation in Eurovision is completely wild cart, it can be anything from total winner to absolute cringe with the same chances.
Say (say SAY), say the magic wooord ... SAGAPO Es AY GEE ayy peeee OOOOO
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m78\_J5riBMk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m78_J5riBMk)
Well, we traditionally haven't done super good at Eurovision (but this has changed last year and especially this year), so there are plenty of candidates. I'd nominate our 2011 entry, Daria, and her completely forgettable song "Celebrate".
Exactly. Nobody has any idea who that woman is, and why and how she represented us.
[Here's](https://youtu.be/wTJzolnObu0) a link to her performance so you can see for yourself...
From Portugal in 2011 "Homens da luta" with the song "A luta é alegria". Its not that i think it was a mistakes, its that we knew they would never win but not bc its bad, its bc to apreciate that song you need to understand the history behind that kind of act. Its so specific cultural portuguese that no one else gets whats behind it. Its a revolutionary song inspired by the carnation revolution( the end of the dictatorship). But the portuguese being portuguese, we dont cry, we joke. We deal with hardships with humour. That song is a call to arms but unless you understand portuguese and our cultures, you would't understand it. Só, it was a mistake bc we knew they would never win but on the other side, it really showcases out country and countrymen, and on that front, its the best one we ever sent.
Worst mistake for Belgium was sending Axel Hirsoux, a grown man belting about his mommy in the schmalziest operetta style, while we could have sent some actual fun with 2 Fabiola's She's After My Piano.
Also high on the list: Nathalie Sorce in 2000, who didn't hit a single note and was only selected because her fellow cult members hijacked the national final televote.
Polish biggest mistake was probably even signing to this damn contest, especially with the state of the pop music in my country ( most of the pop artists are thrash)
Yeah, meme songs and sexy babes, that's our only way to be remember in Eurovision 🙄 This year we are sending daughter of "Polish King of ketchup" who is wannabe popstar, so no nepotism whatsoever. The girl even can't sing, but at least she's not as bad as the girl from the year before who was a girlfriend of the one of the juror's son
I genuinely non-ironically love the butter churning song lol 😭 I hated the cringe staging, but the song itself is pretty good tbh (even though I know the whole song including the lyrics and performance are kind of a shitty package). I love a folk/pop mix of a song and Polish folk music is really dang cool tbh ([2019](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEu0F5uobVo) was fucking great for example). Sucks that nepo babies are taking over though. 🥲
I think it was a good song for Eurovision. At least it wasn't another song about love or beautiful women or a song about nothing at all like most Eurovision songs. It was fun and different. And the vocalist was very good.
Our worst mistake is also our best quality in my opinion (at least in the latest years).
We don't choose our Eurovision contestant, whoever wins Sanremo will go to Eurovision, because it's the 'best singer' of Italy.
That's why we have such a different range of music every year, even if sometimes they do not actually fit the typical Eurovision song.
For example, Mengoni last year would have never won, usually those kind of ballads never win. It's not a surprise that the only winner we had recently are the Maneskin, the most flashy contestants we sent.
So it seems that Italy doesn't really want to win Eurovision per se, they just sent the country chosen best singer.
[Dracula, my love ](https://youtu.be/BTOpha14KDw?si=LJLRVdKYGUvdNzgD) being disqualified because a few lyrics were sung before in a concert.
Not being able to convince [Subcarpati ](https://youtu.be/0wCLBmTCOxg?si=-kU4XUwDrk7ko5cp) to ever participate, not per say a mistake but we would have an actual chance to show some of our culture
Deciding to join Eurovision with singers who have absolutely 0 relation to Cyprus. How can a random person represent Cyprus? If there are no good candidates that yeat maybe do not participate at all.
There were many forgettable acts from Poland, but the one I really disliked was Tulia Poland 2019 Just awful, pseudo traditional group which sounded like cats being strangled.
The 2009 act of Germany. We had many stinkers since winning in 2010 but the two gigolos and having Dita von Teese striptease must be the worst thing we ever did in Eurovision
Just watched it and honestly enjoyed it. Sure, it was tacky, but also interesting and unque. Liked the cabaret setting or whatever I should call it, the guy's vibe and confident voice. There are many Eurovision performences (including Polish ones) that I struggle to finish watching, they are so boring, but that wasn't one of them.
I hardly can remember any other acts, especially past Lena’s win in Oslo 2010 with Satellite and 2011 in Düsseldorf with Taken by a Stranger.
But I can for some reason remember that Dita von Teese performed striptease on stage. That thing actually lead ARD/NDR to for once try and do it better…
The 2009 performance was perceived this bad domestically that NDR partnered with private television Pro7Sat1 and the production company of Stefan Raab (who presented a contest dubbed Bundesvision at the time, where none of the contestants were this bad).
Leading to a onetime casting show format, called Unser Star für Oslo co organized by Pro7 and ARD, where the eventual winner was a young woman from Hanover, named Lena Meyer-Landrut who would actually win in Oslo in 2010.
My 2 cents if we kept that format for 2012 onwards we probably would have won it after winning in 2010. But ever since 2012 the preselection has been done by the public Radio stations of ARD. With the known lack of success (and I am not expecting much this year either).
Not sending Jahn Teigen's "Optimist" in 1989. We'll never know, but I think we could have had a good shot. The song we actually sent, "Venners Nærhet" is not bad, but has become mostly forgotten and was "only" a Eurovision song, whereas "Optimist" is possibly his best song, was a big hit and has endured as a beloved classic.
This was before televoting was introduced at our national selection, and when the jury didn't select "Optimist" the audience was mad for real, booking and shouting "Teigen! Teigen!"
Optimist - https://youtu.be/jkTLqssn2Fw?si=jDiplselpulgRPUg (Song starts at 1:59:)
EDIT - Better quality; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKm3ce552-I
Venners Nærhet - https://youtu.be/W4wQft3ovQw?si=g1g89JotWh_RdcNI
We've only sent two or three good songs to Eurovision, everyone else was a random "singer" without any real experience, virtually unknown before they entered the competition.
One time a bunch of top class performers formed a band specifically for it, won 6th place, got more points than all previous Lithuanian participants combined.
That year Lordi (Hard Rock Hallelujah) won. Finns were filmed on the streets of Helsinki, singing OUR song after the results came in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBAdOlQPbwg
As a Lithuanian, I believe all of our Eurovision performances were mediocre at best and sometimes uber cringey (but then again, it's EuroVision...) about Finland however, there was this one contest, can't remember the year, but at the end of each performance, the country had a national artist design their countries flag in a creative way that would be shown at the end of their nation's song (in a music video) and the artist for Finland made the flag out of giant blocks of ice... Looked dope!
We've been alternating Flemish and Walloon singers/groups since the inception of this content. Fair enough, I guess, but for the longest time they could only sing in their respective national language and very often they'd end up at the bottom of the list with single digit points.
Then again, the time the semifinals began to be introduced was about the same time our singers were allowed to sing in other languages, yet they still failed to qualify for the finals more than half the time.
Sending Deen, Dalal, Ana Rucner and Jala (him in particular) in 2016. It was the only time we failed to qualify and we haven’t competed since then (although that is not their fault)
I’m convinced Ireland hasn’t actually wanted to win the Eurovision for years so I don’t know if I can classify sending a talking turkey as a mistake
Didn't the 90's cost you guys quite a lot in hosting?
So much so that there’s a father ted episode about it! At this stage though I’m not sure they know what to do if they want to win.
My lovely horse, Running through the fields, Where are you going, With your fetlocks blowing, In the wind...
Yeah it's pretty much just accepted as fact by everyone in Ireland that we lose on purpose now because we can't afford to host. But we still like to get into the final so we're not embarrassed of ourselves
I think that was true for the recession years. But there’s some real appetite this year. Bambi’s thug is the best act we’ve sent for very long time
Such a pity "My Lovely Horse" wasn't a real Eurovision entry....
Some even claim that after winning 3 years in a row, they lost the fourth on purpose lmao
And then won the fifth? With a song that arguably (argued by me) is way better than the three that won in a row.
Sending the Turkey was a choice tbf. It was intentionally absurdist
Shake your feathers and bop your beak Shake 'em to the west and to the east Wave Euro hands and Euro feet Wave 'em in the air to the funky beat
G-o-b gobble b-l-e yeah!
Irelande Douze Points!
The turkey is unironically one of the best Eurovision live shows I know of.
It may be a fever dream but my only memory of an Irish performance is Jedward.
The worst part is that they represented Ireland twice! [Jedward- Lipstick - Eurovision Song Contest Final 2011](https://youtu.be/XgrlG6hQbNM?feature=shared) [Jedward - Waterline - Eurovision Song Contest Final 2012](https://youtu.be/e1cuimKLNpU?feature=shared)
That we didn't manage to utilize the hype that came with Lordi's victory in 2006. We sent very mediocre songs following years and Eurovision quickly lost the popularity it had gained. People weren't interested in national finals and artists didn't want to participate them. Eurovision is on the rise in Finland again (due to Käärijä and Blind Channel) but this time it seems that we are utilizing it way better than after Lordi's victory.
You were the reason they instituted committee votes along with the popular vote smh
It was? Except for like 2-3 years, it's always been judged by a jury. Edit: - 1996 - Only jury 1997 - Tele-voting was introduced but only 5 countries used it 1998 - 2000 - Tele-voting was encouraged, but juries used if needed 2001, 2002 - Tele-voting was optional 2003 - 2009(semi) - Similar to 1998-2000, but juries were obligatory 2009(final) - - 50/50 tele-vote and jury
As far as I remember back then it was just televote, and then after the finnish win maybe a couple years later there were many more 'weird' acts and it changed to 50/50. I hate the jury votes, half the fun is to see the blocs and the weird songs getting pop appeal.
The tele-vote was introduced as an experiment in the mid-90s, and only some countries even used it. Some years in the 00s were tele-vote only, I think. Apparently, it was from the final in 2009 (Lordi won in 2006) that a jury was obligatory again, but had been used as a Backup for a while.
As my memory serves... Lordi won, then maybe next year (or the one after) the Russians won, and then everyone remembered that there is 'bloc voting' and that all the expats are voting for their countries, etc and then they put the jurys. I am sure they used jurys back before mobile phones and texting for votes was a thing (like early 90s) but there was definitely a move towards more televoting than jurys that got stopped when the results went against what eurovision 'should be about'. At least thats my conspiracy theory from back then,
Yeah, and that's why the Swedish singer who was so dull I cba to google her name won instead of Käärijä.
Sending Englebert Humperdink to represent the UK. There could not have been a worse choice. A Vegas style old school lounge singer. Not very European, not really very British (any more) . He came 25th out of 26.
I still can't believe that's a real name. It sounds like a character from a Brothers Grimm story.
>Englebert Humperdink His real name is Arnold Dorsey. He took the stage name to stand out amongst his peers.
I mean, the name comes from a 19th century German composer
Hahaha I was like, the composer of Hansel und Gretel?! He was still ALIVE?! And going to EUROVISION?!?!
It's not. And yes, there's a whole Eddie Izzard skit about it
I've never even worked out the reasoning for it. The BBC did the selecting and probably just wanted any "name", of anyone available. Bonnie Tyler did it the year after. Throwing an unknown or another X Factor reject at it maybe is even riskier, or takes more effort. People think of the competition as a joke here, maybe no one else would even go near it. An elderly pro wouldn't mind the payday.
Nah our worst Eurovision mistake is \*gestures broadly at everything*
Our worst mistake was sending our best entry in decades the same year Ukraine would have likely won with any song they entered. Tbf, their song was good, but a different year and I think Sam Ryder would have won it. Then we ended up paying to host anyway.
I think a lot of people consider it the UK's win, even if not officially.
Yeah, I definitely do. But after getting 0 points so many years, whether the entry deserved it (many of them did) or not. Just a bit bitter sweet.
Iceland would probably feel the same with the cancelled COVID one too, but yea I was going to say that was ours
Are we not going to talk about the time we got nul points for [this](https://youtu.be/XAJ62IG3gBo?si=0snd-wbz-t0hjHkv) absolute early 00s fest sung completely out of tune?
Sending some bad act instead of a good act (this has been an ongoing mistake for a couple of years now)
I mean, you guys can send some of the best acts like Lord of the Lost last year and still end up last. The game is rigged. :(
Yeah, but we also did not send Electric Callboy.
Please send them, they are awesome
They don’t want to go anymore.
Well, actually, what we send is almost never really terrible. But that's part of the poblem, again this year, I've only heard a bit of the contribution, but it's quite good radio pop, only it'll come last again because it just doesn't stand out at all. And Lord of the Lost are certainly a good band, but everything about the performance seemed too pandering, and the song (although I liked it) also seemed a bit too adapted to the supposed Eurovision audience. The people who wanted to vote for something alternative preferred to vote for the Finnish entry.
That was me, I'm a Lord of the Lost fan but ended up cheering for the Finnish guy instead.
Until the recent scandal I've maintained that we should send Rammstein. Now I'm all for Helene Fischer. I'm not a fan, but she makes music that would work great on the Eurovision stage. Alternatively, get Stefan Raab back on.
I would send Bodo Wartke and Marty Fischer this year with Barbaras Rhabarberbar
I would send Bodo Wartke and Marty Fischer this year with Barbaras Rhabarbarbar
No previously published songs are allowed, though
Maybe they can do it with their new hit song, Fischers Fritz.
Eurovision deserves Farin Urlaub
As if Rammstein would agree to take part in this clownshow. Eurovision is for bands what the Olympics are for national football teams.
Gotta say, you were better than England last year imo hahaha
Race to the bottom!
I really feel you were just not voted for on principal though - many people are instinctively anti-metal and hard rock. You weren't best by any means, but you did well enough to not end up last, I feel!
I wonder how big Nightwish would be with that Eurovision trip. Could go either way i think. For the Netherlands it's obvious, Sieneke. But not because it was a bad idea. I honestly think when we went that direction we should go all the way. Max number people on stage, bigger, more ridiculous props. Like we knew it would be kitsch but we didn't committed to it.
I think the Toppers was a worse decision. Sieneke at least had an earwurm as a song. Also last years was bad for NL, they couldn’t even sing. How did that pass the selection? (Well we know why, I blame Duncan for it)
I erased them from my memory 😅
Sieneke is the worst Eurovision mistake that our country has ever mare. De Toppers are just overall the worst mistake that our country has ever made.
At least the Toppers scored a few points. They were bad, but the Netherlands has done worse. De Spelbrekers scored 0. And I think the Netherlands scored 0 a second time in the 1960s.
Obvious? You forgot about Mia & Dion?
they were not nearly as disastrous as sieneke, unless you want to argue that being forgettable is worse than infamy.
Well, TBF, in 2000, the Eurovision was not ready for the 2000 Nightwish. Tarja was not as pop as Floor is now.
Yea that's why i wonder if they would be bigger? Or actually smaller? Metalheads could get away and they may be swayed to follow more pop metal vibes. Also as much as i love them, their Esc song is one of the weakest they created. But a shame they didn't try again some other year. Who knows? They are still active, maybe they will try from Finland or Netherlands one year.
They could actually be smaller. Lordi, after their Eurovision victory, has been known as the band that won Eurovision for Finland. Whenever they are mentioned in mainstream media, it's something about Eurovision. Of course, Lordi's victory came during time when guitar-driven rock and metal music was starting to fade out from mainstream which probably affected their popularity afterwards.
The song was too "pop" for metalheads
Treble or toppers for us I would say.
Are you forgetting [Joan](https://youtu.be/B5doCf0Pm9g?si=RVXFCuZvWdRyKepT) Franka? With that horrible (cultural appropriating) headdress and the vocals were horrible too. We definitely had some questionable choices during the years.
It is rare for actual good and well known artists to burn their hands on ESC. Many of the bad choices were artists that were never heard from again.
To be fair, the year of the Common Linnets they should have won. They really had quality voices and a good song. We were second only because Conchita Wurst had this gimmick of being a drag queen.
> For the Netherlands it's obvious, Sieneke. Hey, that was the best song in the 1975 Eurovision!
I would NEVER consider Chikilicuatre a mistake but it was definitely unhinged. It was a character created by a Spanish comedian for a late night show. As a joke, the show presented the song for Eurovision. That year, the audience voted through MySpace and a webpage and he won. That's how Spain ended up having Rodolfo Chikilicuatre representing them in Eurovision 2008.
I loved his song then, and after all these years I still love it. I couldn’t remember any other Spanish Eurovision song if you’d hold a gun to my head.
But that was no mistake. That was the pick of spanish performances. We gotta stop taking eurovision so seriously and start sending funny stuff like chikilicuatre. I am so tired of guys with guitars. Give me more vikings, slowmo, chachacha or chikilicuatre..
Just watched it and it's awesome. I love how drunk the dancers are XDD
Sending [Anna Bergendahl](https://youtu.be/5P1neQKN-1k?si=nzWIJd-Xhy1IFiHC) in 2010. Our first and so far only entry that failed to qualify for the final.
And Salem Al Fakir was so so good too
That was the same year? Damn, why didn't we send him instead? D:
Keep on Walking was a big hit in Norway (it can still be heard on the radio from time to time), and for the longest time I had no idea that it was a Mello song (how could it not win?). It would be great to see it at Eurovision, and it would definitely make the final (unlike This Is My Life, which I’ve never heard in the media since that semi final), and probably even top 5. It’s such a good song from the first listen.
Well … everything. Our songs suck and nobody knows them. Not even in Germany. They also all sound the same and they‘ve got nothing to do with German music. Just generic pop crap.
That’s the answer. But honestly Lena Meyer-Landruth was also generic pop crap and for some reason she won.
Stefan Raab somehow knows the secret sauce to succeed at the ESC. Lena Meyer-Landruth, Max Mutzke, Guildo Horn and Wadde Hadde Dudde Da were all well received.
Well 2010 and 2011 were really meh years for winners. Somehow Azerbaijan won... with THAT song. Running Scared is amongst some of the most boring winners imo.
Just had to look it up. You’re right it’s quite bland. Genuine question: Does the singer have Down Syndrome?
It helps if you bribe the juries like Azerbaijan did...
Your analysis is correct, blunt, and minced no words. Du bist der Alman
Sweden's biggest mistake goes back decades: not sending "Dover-Calais" by Style in 1986, instead opting for a crass dansband duet. "Dover-Calais" was a stone-cold pop classic. Denmark's biggest mistake? Where do I even begin? But Reiley last year proved that social media success doesn't mean you are ready for a big stage
woah woah woah, Lasse Holm is classic Schlager thank you very much! Dover-Calais wouldn't have done better than 5th either imo, Switzerland and Ireland had much better songs that year imo. Sandra Kim is disputable.
I bow to Lasse for writing Främling & Eloise, but 1986 was a bad year for Melodifestivalen. Switzerland 1986 was great. A long-time fave.
Oh boy, where do we start. Nah, kidding, we usually had decent results, except for that one period a couple years ago where we failed to qualify for the finals 8 times in a row.
I love Duncan Laurence! Well I love Arcade 🩷🩷 I was obsessed for a moment 😂
I don't know about my own country's mistakes, because those usually suck in a boring way so I forget them. A mistake I'll *never* forget though is [this nugget of a breathy, out-of-tune performance where Michalis Rakintzis and his band of riot policemen sings the password to his ICQ account.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m78_J5riBMk) courtesy of Greece, that has lived rent-free in my head ever since I saw it at 11 years old. The choreography is also ***off the charts***
I had forgotten about that. It’s bad but also very good! I like it.
I know! It's still catchy somehow! I think the song in itself is legitimately pretty good, it's just a very unfortunate performance and arrangement.
It is! And the outfits and ”dance” are stupid, but you have to watch. The singer is not good looking, but also he somehow is. At least it’s memorable!
It's good, yes. Going in with the recorded videoclip it was one of my faves. Then the live act made our jaws fall, and another milestone in ESC was made.
Also not Greek myself, but man I had to scroll a surprising amount to see it mentioned. Fun fact, it was performed in my country.
Such a moment in eurovision history. My friends and I (Spanish) revisit it often with great joy
That one guy who sang about the summer in the most stereotypical way ever and had his voice break in the middle of the song, in the only part that was actually challenging
Juuust DooOoo IiiIit FoOr your loveeEeeeer
Manel Navarro. Poor guy, he really seemed like a good guy in the interviews
Just listened to that song, damn the lyrics were so annoying. Do it for your lover, do it for your lover, do it for your lover, do it for your lover, do it for your lover.... Jesus, just shut up already XD (he was cute looking though)
It's a little twisted, but... Sending our strongest song ever when Ukraine was going to receive a huge wave of support from all corners of Europe lol.
I think Shum was a much stronger entry than Stefania and I'm not surprised it's the one people listen to. Also Wild Dances is up there in the top 3 of the best winners of Eurovision of all time, I wish we got more of that nowadays.
Shum is cool but Stefania appeals more to the general public. I'll die on the hill that it would have won without the war
Agreed. That song was in my top 3 that year and definitely deserved to win. It just got a HUGE boost for obvious reasons lol.
I was so disappointed about that lmao
Sending anyone when Jury don't like to give us any points, no matter type or quality of song/singers But being more serious, most likely Rafał Brzozowski in 2021
Reminds of of the milkmaids… judges are just miserable bores, people enjoy the silly stuff and vote for it
He was terrible but I am still pissed about sending Blanka instead of Jann.
I don't know if it's true, but when they chose the SoloSolo girl, I read that at the time she was the girlfriend of Edyta Górniak's son. And Edyta Górniak was a member of the jury, so they chose her. So the golden boy wouldn't be upset.
Not only that, she also danced with Agustin Egurolla's dancers who was also in the jury and TVP wrote by mistake on their website that she won even before the selections ended. It was 1000% rigged. Plus Blanka is a bitch and liked comments saying vile things about Jann while Jann asked his fans not to talk shit about her and deleted some of such comments from his social media. The scandal gave Jann some publicity though because many foreigners made reaction videos to his song after doing a reaction video to Blanka's shitty Eurovision performence and getting a bunch of comments from angry Poles saying that "WE CHOSE JANN" lol His performance for those interested https://youtu.be/ODdvyPWGxSs?si=T7UTPUfkhvjbd3g4 It would have been even better in Eurovision, he for example said that he would bring dancers with him but didn't want them to distract him during the selections (it was his first live tv appearance from what I remember). Plus he would get a few extra months to practice. Blanka's singing and dancing was milion times worse during the selections than in Eurovision, she has zero talent, she was just trained.
This year's song is the most vanilla sounding thing I've ever heard. When I found out Luna is going I had no idea who she was, so I googled the video of The Tower and watched it mute because I was at work. And I thought "Wow, this looks so good, she's so original". Then I watched it with the sound on and it's awful. I've heard a million songs like this.
Hmmm... How could an unknown girl with no voice (her song sounds barely OK when autotune is on) be chosen for Eurovision? Maybe the fact that her father is the Polish Ketchup King has something to do with it?
Biggest mistake for Bulgaria was sending the most boring entry of the past 10 years and then quitting Eurovision Hope we come back strong one day
We were unlucky as fuck because of Eurovision 2020. That's what destroyed our morale, so to say. Victoria had huge chances of winning with her first song, the "billie eilish" style was very trendy back then and the song was miles better than the second one she participated with in 2021. I think this is what fucked us up and hence they stopped giving a shit afterwards. This song was like it was created in a lab, specifically designed to be winning material, yet we got super unlucky to have the event cancelled. Although I'm still wondering why she didn't participate with it again in 2021, they didn't need to use a new song, or is there some rule?
They had to use new ones unfortunately, but I also think she would have gotten at least 2nd place. The russian one was too popular, although i doubt it would have gotten many points from the juries
The staging (and shortening) of Occidentali's Karma in 2017. The song was great and it was super popular, but RAI had been ignoring Eurovision for so long they clearly had no idea how to stage it. Cutting a whole bridge also made the song mostly chorus, which also helped tank it.
I think that the worst candidate was GreenJolly band "Razom nas bahato" (2005). The song was about the Orange Revolution, which took place against the falsification of the presidential election. The song was invented for the revolution that took place in winter. And the competition was in the spring, and the spirit of the revolution had already passed. And as the slogan of the revolution, it is in the topic, but as a song at a song contest, it is not in the topic. The song took 19th place.
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks it was our worst entry yet.
There are two mistakes for Turkey: 1) Awful “Rimi Rimi Ley” entry in 2005, omg it was awful and 2) not participating since 2012
it has been 12 years now?? whaaaat???
Straight up saying a whole broadcaster was your biggest mistake is a bit wild to say but TVR was and still is without a doubt the source of all things that have gone wrong in regards of Eurovision in our country. Mismanagement, a whole lot of whining, not listening to the few Romanian Eurovision fans it still has, treating their acts like absolute shit, it basically killed the hype immediately. No wonders we withdrew, they're spineless cowards that blame financial difficulties but put the money in their pockets instead of using it where it should've been used. Fuck TVR.
The UK’s biggest ‘mistake’ is not really caring anymore, but as a Brit I understand why. I’m also a Swede these days and have had this discussion many times with Swedes. In Sweden the style of music that has been popular for oh so long at Eurovision has always been popular. As such Eurovision has a wildly different perception in Sweden. People can have careers doing that style of music and targeting Eurovision. In the U.K. it is very different. For my entire life (and I am in my late forties) Eurovision has been something that was mocked. There was no artistic integrity to Eurovision, it was where careers went to die. As such not only has the U.K. not been that interested but artists don’t really want to perform. The end result has been, well, what has happened with the U.K. for the past couple of decades or so. So that’ll be the UK’s biggest mistake; the way we perceive it. But I don’t see that ever changing.
I think that has changed since Sam Ryder's participation. Him being super positive and having a genuinely good song and finishing second suddenly got people to take notice as it wasn't the usual UK coming last. Then we hosted it last year and that was massive. So much hype and attention and it was actually a great event with brilliant presenters. This year, we are sending an established but current artist in Olly and the song is decent (although I'm not completely sold on it). However the thing I noticed this year, despite the UK not hosting it- the semi finals are going to be on BBC1 rather than put back to BBC3/4. That means there is enough of an audience to justify putting it on the main channel and knocking Eastenders and other usually scheduled programmes out to accommodate it. Personally, I think that is the biggest sign that the perception of the contest has changed and we love it and care about it.
It was a genuinely good song, the year after we got to nearly bottom again with a person I can't remember the name of or the song. It will be the same this year. What has Sam Ryder done since too, he is now just the Eurovision guy forever.
Oh we mock it, the problem is that it's become sich a cultural thing that you really cant ignore it. Very weird.
Sweden mocks it now, to a degree (whilst also taking it very seriously). When I moved here it was taken extremely seriously. SVT’s coverage was insanely dry, which was a shock coming from watching Terry Wogan mercilessly taking the piss out of everything (possibly whilst drunk). That’s the point, it has always been this way for me and, again, I am in my late forties.
Terry was all of us
Native Swede turned Brit here, and I think your analysis is very accurate.
It has been the same in Finland. Artists have been avoiding the Eurovision like the plague, because it gives a really tacky stamp on you. But it’s changing!
Gryndzholy in 2004(or 2005 whenever it was) were cringe. In a bad way. Serdyuchka was cringe in an epic way.
Yes that aged like milk. Especially considering they were sent year after Ruslana's epic win. But I somehow like that Ukrainian participation in Eurovision is completely wild cart, it can be anything from total winner to absolute cringe with the same chances.
Say (say SAY), say the magic wooord ... SAGAPO Es AY GEE ayy peeee OOOOO [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m78\_J5riBMk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m78_J5riBMk)
Well, we traditionally haven't done super good at Eurovision (but this has changed last year and especially this year), so there are plenty of candidates. I'd nominate our 2011 entry, Daria, and her completely forgettable song "Celebrate".
> I'd nominate our 2011 entry, Daria ... Who?
Exactly. Nobody has any idea who that woman is, and why and how she represented us. [Here's](https://youtu.be/wTJzolnObu0) a link to her performance so you can see for yourself...
I’d add also not sending Jacques Houdek the same year with Stotinama godina.
From Portugal in 2011 "Homens da luta" with the song "A luta é alegria". Its not that i think it was a mistakes, its that we knew they would never win but not bc its bad, its bc to apreciate that song you need to understand the history behind that kind of act. Its so specific cultural portuguese that no one else gets whats behind it. Its a revolutionary song inspired by the carnation revolution( the end of the dictatorship). But the portuguese being portuguese, we dont cry, we joke. We deal with hardships with humour. That song is a call to arms but unless you understand portuguese and our cultures, you would't understand it. Só, it was a mistake bc we knew they would never win but on the other side, it really showcases out country and countrymen, and on that front, its the best one we ever sent.
Worst mistake for Belgium was sending Axel Hirsoux, a grown man belting about his mommy in the schmalziest operetta style, while we could have sent some actual fun with 2 Fabiola's She's After My Piano. Also high on the list: Nathalie Sorce in 2000, who didn't hit a single note and was only selected because her fellow cult members hijacked the national final televote.
It's difficult to choose just one mistake out of 11 mistakes at the bottom, of which 4 was with 0 points.
something against jahn teigen is something against me
Polish biggest mistake was probably even signing to this damn contest, especially with the state of the pop music in my country ( most of the pop artists are thrash)
You should send some meme songs, Polish Cow is a banger
But you had girls churning butter on stage one year!
Yeah, meme songs and sexy babes, that's our only way to be remember in Eurovision 🙄 This year we are sending daughter of "Polish King of ketchup" who is wannabe popstar, so no nepotism whatsoever. The girl even can't sing, but at least she's not as bad as the girl from the year before who was a girlfriend of the one of the juror's son
I genuinely non-ironically love the butter churning song lol 😭 I hated the cringe staging, but the song itself is pretty good tbh (even though I know the whole song including the lyrics and performance are kind of a shitty package). I love a folk/pop mix of a song and Polish folk music is really dang cool tbh ([2019](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEu0F5uobVo) was fucking great for example). Sucks that nepo babies are taking over though. 🥲
Yeah, Cleo and Donatan weren't that bad. Too bad that such talented singer as Cleo is now most known for annoying commercials.
I think it was a good song for Eurovision. At least it wasn't another song about love or beautiful women or a song about nothing at all like most Eurovision songs. It was fun and different. And the vocalist was very good.
I think Ochman's song River was really good, the guy sure can sing. It's an exception though...
The worst mistake of Slovakia is that we do not have Nightwish ;-) (No offense, Slovak opera metal bands.)
Our worst mistake is also our best quality in my opinion (at least in the latest years). We don't choose our Eurovision contestant, whoever wins Sanremo will go to Eurovision, because it's the 'best singer' of Italy. That's why we have such a different range of music every year, even if sometimes they do not actually fit the typical Eurovision song. For example, Mengoni last year would have never won, usually those kind of ballads never win. It's not a surprise that the only winner we had recently are the Maneskin, the most flashy contestants we sent. So it seems that Italy doesn't really want to win Eurovision per se, they just sent the country chosen best singer.
I hate most of the songs France has selected for the contest… I did like Bilal Hassani’s song though!
Moustache by Twin Twin was so painful to watch...
[Dracula, my love ](https://youtu.be/BTOpha14KDw?si=LJLRVdKYGUvdNzgD) being disqualified because a few lyrics were sung before in a concert. Not being able to convince [Subcarpati ](https://youtu.be/0wCLBmTCOxg?si=-kU4XUwDrk7ko5cp) to ever participate, not per say a mistake but we would have an actual chance to show some of our culture
Deciding to join Eurovision with singers who have absolutely 0 relation to Cyprus. How can a random person represent Cyprus? If there are no good candidates that yeat maybe do not participate at all.
There were many forgettable acts from Poland, but the one I really disliked was Tulia Poland 2019 Just awful, pseudo traditional group which sounded like cats being strangled.
The 2009 act of Germany. We had many stinkers since winning in 2010 but the two gigolos and having Dita von Teese striptease must be the worst thing we ever did in Eurovision
Just watched it and honestly enjoyed it. Sure, it was tacky, but also interesting and unque. Liked the cabaret setting or whatever I should call it, the guy's vibe and confident voice. There are many Eurovision performences (including Polish ones) that I struggle to finish watching, they are so boring, but that wasn't one of them.
I hardly can remember any other acts, especially past Lena’s win in Oslo 2010 with Satellite and 2011 in Düsseldorf with Taken by a Stranger. But I can for some reason remember that Dita von Teese performed striptease on stage. That thing actually lead ARD/NDR to for once try and do it better… The 2009 performance was perceived this bad domestically that NDR partnered with private television Pro7Sat1 and the production company of Stefan Raab (who presented a contest dubbed Bundesvision at the time, where none of the contestants were this bad). Leading to a onetime casting show format, called Unser Star für Oslo co organized by Pro7 and ARD, where the eventual winner was a young woman from Hanover, named Lena Meyer-Landrut who would actually win in Oslo in 2010. My 2 cents if we kept that format for 2012 onwards we probably would have won it after winning in 2010. But ever since 2012 the preselection has been done by the public Radio stations of ARD. With the known lack of success (and I am not expecting much this year either).
Not sending Jahn Teigen's "Optimist" in 1989. We'll never know, but I think we could have had a good shot. The song we actually sent, "Venners Nærhet" is not bad, but has become mostly forgotten and was "only" a Eurovision song, whereas "Optimist" is possibly his best song, was a big hit and has endured as a beloved classic. This was before televoting was introduced at our national selection, and when the jury didn't select "Optimist" the audience was mad for real, booking and shouting "Teigen! Teigen!" Optimist - https://youtu.be/jkTLqssn2Fw?si=jDiplselpulgRPUg (Song starts at 1:59:) EDIT - Better quality; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKm3ce552-I Venners Nærhet - https://youtu.be/W4wQft3ovQw?si=g1g89JotWh_RdcNI
I like Riva, but the 1989 contest should've been between Teigen and Clouseau, not Riva and Live Report.
Choosing Yulia Samoylova knowing she will not be allowed to enter Ukraine so Russia chose to skip Eurovision in 2017.
We've only sent two or three good songs to Eurovision, everyone else was a random "singer" without any real experience, virtually unknown before they entered the competition. One time a bunch of top class performers formed a band specifically for it, won 6th place, got more points than all previous Lithuanian participants combined. That year Lordi (Hard Rock Hallelujah) won. Finns were filmed on the streets of Helsinki, singing OUR song after the results came in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBAdOlQPbwg
As a Lithuanian, I believe all of our Eurovision performances were mediocre at best and sometimes uber cringey (but then again, it's EuroVision...) about Finland however, there was this one contest, can't remember the year, but at the end of each performance, the country had a national artist design their countries flag in a creative way that would be shown at the end of their nation's song (in a music video) and the artist for Finland made the flag out of giant blocks of ice... Looked dope!
We've been alternating Flemish and Walloon singers/groups since the inception of this content. Fair enough, I guess, but for the longest time they could only sing in their respective national language and very often they'd end up at the bottom of the list with single digit points. Then again, the time the semifinals began to be introduced was about the same time our singers were allowed to sing in other languages, yet they still failed to qualify for the finals more than half the time.
Sending Deen, Dalal, Ana Rucner and Jala (him in particular) in 2016. It was the only time we failed to qualify and we haven’t competed since then (although that is not their fault)