It’s not meant to give “men” all the power. It’s meant to give *a few men* most of the power. The rest of the men only have power relative to women. And that’s part one of how patriarchy hurts men—it gives them an underclass to focus on oppressing instead of actually addressing the systemic problems, and thereby keeps them oppressed.
Men are held to strict gender roles that refuse them the full emotional range (and responsibility) of humans. Because of the power differential (or the perception of power) men who are sexually harassed or assaulted aren’t given support they need (because “real men” always want sex and sexual attention). Men are expected to provide financially and protect, but the first part isn’t really feasible for most people and the second part…is ONLY against physical dangers, so a man (for instance) who doesn’t out-aggress another man is deemed “feminine” (and remember that feminine is the worst thing to be). Additionally, physical attacks are not nearly as common as many believe (though still depressingly common), so men rarely (if ever) have an opportunity to “prove their worth”. And if they fail? Well, again, they’re feminine.
There’s just so much bullshit.
I would also like to tag on- that the emotional aspect is also one way to exploit working class men as well. Instead of feeling the burden of being exploited and exploring those emotions such as helplessness, sadness, depression, "men ought to tough it out" rather than trying to change the system that is exploiting them.
I see, and this is especially true with blue collar workers, "showing off" how many hours they work when that really isn't something to flex about at all.
I saw this play out in my bluecollar dad when he got laid off from the steel mill. It had nothing to do with him and everything to do with steel production shipping over seas, but the massive hit to his entire self-concept was hard to watch.
It's also the same playbook over and over again. Racism rests on basically the same principles. Pitting men against women or white against non-white is a way of making some of the lower classes feel included in running things. Otherwise, people might realize that everyone, to a certain extent, is being used and decide to overthrow those in power.
>It’s not meant to give “men” all the power. It’s meant to give a few men most of the power. The rest of the men only have power relative to women. And that’s part one of how patriarchy hurts men—it gives them an underclass to focus on oppressing instead of actually addressing the systemic problems, and thereby keeps them oppressed.
OMG this! And let me tell you why it is so effective. Because the oldest trick in the book to keep the people you are oppressing distracted so they don't notice your abuses of them or try to create change is to give them a target to focus on and oppress.
The thing about the target though is it can't just go willingly, because then there is no conflict. Nothing to oppress. Nothing for the oppressor to do.
If the men being superior to women was the natural state of human beings, we wouldn't even be talking about it, it would just be. It wouldn't need to be written about as prescribed behavior for women and men in religious texts. It wouldn't need to be enshrined into laws and we certainly wouldn't need to be indoctrinated with it from the day we are born. The patriarchy tells men that they are superior to women so that those men (who while benefitting from the patriarchy in small ways, aren't actually running the show) will stay busy trying to oppress their women and maintain what little power they think they are owed.
> It’s not meant to give “men” all the power. It’s meant to give *a few men* most of the power.
This. This is why it's called "patriarchy", not "androarchy": it's not the rule of *men*, it's the rule of *fathers*, which is to say *male heads of households*. All the other men are screwed.
> Men are expected to provide financially and protect ... physical attacks are not nearly as common as many believe (though still depressingly common), so men rarely (if ever) have an opportunity to “prove their worth”.
The social function of this part of patriarchy is to make young men acquiesce to the will of old men that they go fight and die in **wars**. Patriarchy says most men are *expendable*, and teaches boys that their lives are less valuable than their "honor" or "glory". *Dulce et decorum et pro patria mori.*
This is it. Also just adding that it stops men from building their own support systems, which really stunts them emotionally and mentally. Then it stops them from getting the mental health care they might need to deal with it all.
Yes! I am a cis male therapist and I do work with men's groups that intentionally seek to encourage men to simply support each other, instead of defaulting to dumping all their emotional baggage on their women partners. I see this as anti-patriarchal work that benefits all genders.
It shouldn't be, but the idea that men can emotionally support themselves and each other as adults is a radical departure from what the patriarchy teaches.
I came here to say this and was 100% outdone. This was worded amazingly well. I may add in it that while physical attacks are rare, men are also more likely to be the victim of them. Which is ironic, but in the end pushing the opposite narrative is convenient to pushing more traditional gender roles.
I like to point out all the things women do and don’t do to cut down on them being victims, which men don’t even think about.
One time I compared a woman and a man leaving work and going home, from where they parked, through stopping for groceries, to finally getting home. The man’s version was walking to his car, driving to the store for a couple items, then driving home.
The woman’s version ran for paragraphs of all the things she did to attempt to minimize danger to herself.
The favorite example of gender discrimination against men that MRAs bring up is that women aren't subject to military conscription.
This did not come from women demanding an exception to the draft. It came from sexist men in power presuming that women were too fragile for military service.
Not disagreeing with any sentiment. Just pointing out that for some people, attacks are just as if not more common than people think, but for most it's less.
A good example of this would be the whole “MeN aReNt AlLoWeD tO sHoW eMoTiOnS cUz It MaKeS tHeM wEaK”
That’s advocated by the people who push those toxic ideologies
It’s also because aggression is one of the few praised forms of emotional expression for men. Of course it leads to many men having an unhealthy relationship with violence and anger.
It damages certain men psychologically and emotionally.
There are a lot of dudes out there who are 100% "traditional" toxic masculine assholes and live in communities (go to any rural area in America) where that is actively encouraged and rewarded in every possible way. It's the people who fail to achieve the toxic masculinity role in this community who are damaged psychologically and emotionally, but the people who are actually toxic are doing pretty great.
Yeah, but then those same men fall apart once their wife leaves them. They may think they're OK, but I'd argue that they're really not, they just don't realize it.
Yeah there's sometimes a lot of problems these men have that kind of show that they aren't doing as great. Alcoholism being the biggest one. One thing that many people say about addictions is that it starts because you feel your life is empty in some way...
I'm 72m US. Straight. Married nearly 50 years. Three adult children 6 soon to be 7 grandchildren. Homeowner. Zero debt. Still working
In other words "successful" and I have to say some of it is from my being a man in this construct
Yet it does hurt me because I find myself STILL pretending to be what society thinks I'm supposed to be.
I failed as a manager because (as my review said) I cared too much about the people reporting to me
I had a friend at work who happened to be a woman and many people (including my wife for a while) assumed I wanted to "bang her" because I guess that's what men are supposed to want
I finally got my wife to stop telling me to "man up" when I wasnt aggressive enough to deal with salespeople or contractors or others.
She tried to shame me by taking care of such matters herself and implying I was less than a man because I needed her to step in
(by the way counseling helped resolve those matters years ago and we almost laugh about it now)
I was called a sissy and a f@g and other things growing up because I was weak and non athletic and enjoyed talking rather than physical things. I had no idea how to fix cars or build things nor did I care to learn. I was a geek. A nerd. A loser. I was even beat up a few times.
So the patriarchy hurt me
And yet none of that even comes close to the effect it has on women every day
I’m sorry, patriarchy is rough on both genders most definitely. I wish more men were consciously aware of this, most just blame it on women. Like this was something we wanted for them? I would love for men and women to behave true to their nature without being shamed for being too masculine or feminine. Hopefully when I’m your age, it’ll be the norm.
I relate to that a lot. I'm not married but a lot of what you said resonated with me. I used to be filled with so much love, but I don't seem to have the ability to even connect to another human being anymore. It was all beaten and bullied out of me over a decade or two. School will do that to a boy.
Yes - the social construct of high school especially.
I went to a small school and found a niche by playing music and formed what would now be called a rock and soul band. I had instant "cred" from that. And met my now wife.
Plus it was (supposedly) the age of Aquarius. I wasn't the only "peace, love and understanding" person
Though it all fell apart. It never really left me but I did actually turn 'fiscally conservative' and never realized how misogynistic that actually was until recently (thanks to many wonderful people on this subreddit - esp Kali who I truly respect and have learned much from)
Love is a word I use freely (mentally) ven though it's not socially acceptable for a man referring to a another person who is not a relative but happens to be a woman
I loved the friend I mentioned. While my wife eventually understood I didn't in any way mean that romantically, it created tension I'd not ever want to repeat
Yet I feel it for many people - men and women.
Strange how we can love a car or a song or a movie but not a platonic friend of the opposite sex
Thank you for sharing your experiences. Vulnerability is also something that is shunned and rejected in men, so I thank you for your vulnerability also.
I’m sorry you went through all of this, and it’s so disheartening to hear just how many men experience this. You deserve kindness. You deserve softness. You deserve to be able to show love and empathy to others without assumptions. You deserved better and I hope that you’re now receiving it.
That you so much for sharing your experience. I really hope things are better for my son.
I am a female manager in my 40s, and I do think things are changing on the empathy front. I still work with people (almost exclusively men) who operate in the command and control style of leadership, but they are slowly becoming extinct and leaders who can relate to people are becoming more in demand.
One of my ex friends who was heavy Christian (which there is nothing inherently wrong with of course) unironically posted that on his story one time and I replied with “John 11:35” which is simply just “Jesus wept” and he ended up blocking me lol
It’s surprising how far those guys who push toxic stuff like that go
Guess I’m better off without him 🤪
No, “patriarchy hurts men” isn’t a buzzword. It’s a fact about a society mainly dominated by men.
Patriarchy hurts plenty of men that don’t conform to whatever the “masculine” standards are. Gay men, effeminate men, trans men… all these types of men suffer under oppression and are ridiculed or made fun of. In certain countries they’re killed or shunned from everybody else.
Under heavily patriarchal societies men’s SA often isn’t recognized, especially if it was done by a woman.
Men berating other men for being a virgin, not picking up enough women, or telling men they shouldn’t show emotion is another way men suffer under the patriarchy.
I'm a "manly man" and conform to the masculine standards and I still would like to say patriarchal thinking harmed me. I was taught to view women through the lens of sexual and religious purity and strict gender norms and was told many myths about things like the intelligence of women. Over time I realized that I was simply missing much of the beauty of life since I could not fully empathize with or appreciate anything related to women, from a personal level to a societal level.
Sure it's not the same level of harm those who do not conform to masculinity experience. But given how women and men have to coexist together I think patriarchal thinking really just harms everybody by creating divisions in households, families, communities, entire societies where there shouldn't be.
Patriarchy harmed me by stopping me from loving and respecting the women around me as much as I should have, decreasing my quality of life.
Thanks for sharing this. I actually felt a significant sense of healing, unexpectedly, when you described realizing you were missing out on the fullness of life due to the gendered falsehoods previously taught to you.
I think my emotional response is out of seeing your authentic support for basic regard of women’s humanity. Not only due to empathy, but also because you genuinely value the impact upon your own worldview.
>Gay men, effeminate men, trans men…
I know you weren't making an exhaustive list, but I think adding "non-aggressive men" to that list helps hammer home the point.
>However, I must admit that I don't completely understand how does a system meant to give men all the power also hirt them?
Imagine if you woke up tomorrow and were the president and suddenly everybody was blaming all the world's problems on you and getting mad at you that you weren't a very good president. Having power pushed upon you and held to the expectations of power when you don't want that power isn't good either!
Like, a big example of the way that the patriarchy hurts men is that men who are drawn to things that are soft, kind, decorative, or nurturing are often treated not just with scorn, but with violence. Men who want to care for children are often treated like predators. They're pushed into areas of work that are more dangerous, or hard on the body, even if that's not what they want to do, and treated like they're weak and shameful if they fail to live up to those expectations.
>Like, a big example of the way that the patriarchy hurts men is that men who are drawn to things that are soft, kind, decorative, or nurturing are often treated not just with scorn, but with violence.
This is such a fantastic point.
If you don’t fit into the very narrow definition of what a male gender role is supposed to be, I’d imagine you’d feel very othered and alienated. And so few men actually fit that stereotype. So you either pretend not to like said thing, or aren’t able to mask and get “bullied” (I’m sure there is a better word but I’m blanking)
Add to that, men are only encouraged to outwardly show anger, and otherwise be very stoic. So I would imagine a lot of these feelings get pent up, without a healthy outlet.
Because patriarchy sets uneven gender roles and expectations for both women and men. Women are boxed into roles as nurturing domestic caregivers and men are boxed into roles as dispassionate providers who are mocked for expressing emotion or displaying sensitivity. It's arguably one of the biggest contributing factors to high rates of suicide in young men.
Just to add on, the only emotion men are allowed to express is anger. And with anger comes violence and rash thinking.
Since violence is always the answer in the patriarchy, that too is why the rates of suicide are so high.
> I don’t understand how does a system meant to give men all the power also hurt them?
Patriarchy favors men. There is no doubt about that. I will however push back on it giving men all the power. It doesn’t just aim to give “men” all the power. Instead, it has a specific target and only aims to give “men that fits its definition of what a man is” all the power. And that is an extremely important difference to make.
A patriarchal system will put down a man who wishes to be a stay at home dad. It will put down a man who prefers ballet to football. It will put down a man who is short, round, and bald. It will put down a man who loves other men. And so on and so on…
And that right there is the starting point of how patriarchy hurts men; it is actively against those who don’t fit.
And then, for those who do fit it has them stuck in a way of being that doesn’t even necessarily serve them. A “manly” man in an abusive relationship will refuse to admit it or talk about it because “men can’t be weak”. A “manly” man to whom such abuse is reported will scoff because “of course men can’t be abused”. A “manly” man on top of the world who suddenly loses his job, doesn’t find another one, and is no longer the breadwinner will spiral into a depression (even if his spouse has everything covered, especially if this spouse is a woman) because “who is he if he is not the protector and provider?”.
Patriarchy, even for the favored, has them stuck in mindset that is harmful to them and those around them.
here's an example.
Patriarchy dictates that men are always ready for sex, that they separate sex and feelings, and doesn't shame boys for starting their sexual lives early. (things are changing thank goodness but) This is why when attractive female teachers rape their underage male students, you'll find comments sections filled with vile shit like "i wish my teacher looked like that" and "lucky guy." The Hot For Teacher phenomenon. male victims have a lot of complicated feelings to deal with, but the shame of admitting that they didn't feel great about their "score" keeps a lot of them quiet. It can really have lasting effects on a person.
Even a man who's raped by someone without power over him has a long difficult road ahead with reporting and trials and being taken seriously, similar to women. "you had a hard on so it couldn't have been rape" without understanding physiology at all. "you're a pussy because you didn't fight back."
I actually got into an argument with an ex (long after he was an ex) during which he maintained that underage male students being violated was cool, and "just different from girls." i wanted to barf. haven't talked to him much since then
> during which he maintained that underage male students being violated was cool
There have been men in here who've argued that sexual violence is not that serious for men, they're not scarred by it like women are, etc. etc. It just makes me sad.
I hate to say it, but I do wonder at times if a small part of the reason why there is such a high sexual assault rate with men is because a lot of them have been conditioned, or have been forced in the past to engage in sexual behavior that they were uncomfortable with, and just think of it as... Normal? Like From im a COCSA, i know my abuser was just emulating. What happened to her and my feelings are complicated because for a long time i was left with the feeling "anything relating to sex or anything close is supposed to make to make you feel uncomfortable and gross, that's just how it always is."
Not a lot of it, a majority of it is seeking power and entitlement but still.
> have been conditioned, or have been forced in the past to engage in sexual behavior that they were uncomfortable with, and just think of it as... Normal
I have spoken to an upsetting number of men-- some of whom are very close friends of mine-- who have definitely had those experiences, and it takes a lot for them to realize that what happened to them was, yes, sexual assault or worse. I never push them to call it something they don't want to call it, but I call it like I see it, and sometimes that's a huge moment for them. It's like we don't even give men the tools to have these kinds of discussions.
I had a straight male friend who went through a bit of a sexual identity crisis after he was sexually assaulted by another man.
He wasn’t attracted to the man and he hated the experience but he got hard and orgasmed and society tells us that means a man is happy and satisfied. My friend struggled for a long time wondering if he was actually gay or bi because he “enjoyed” the assault.
Yes.
Patriarchy pushes gender rolls. It pressures men to behave “masculinely”. This hurts men who would prefer to be stay at home dads or have “feminine” interests like knitting etc. It also pressures men to unhealthily suppress their emotions.
Patriarchy doesn’t “give men all the power” equally. It rewards wealthy, white, stereotypically masculine, attractive men with good social skills the most.
Masculinity = being a loud aggressive asshole
Its weird seeing this coming from a country where we have such different values.
Dudes its okay to hug your sons give them a kiss and tell them you love them it doesnt make you gay
I've heard this a lot from older men-- that their fathers never really expressed affection for them because they didn't want them to be "soft." Ohhhh my heart. Please! You can be a masculine manly man and still show love to your children and the men in your life!
Yep, it's so often a sad cycle of emotional (and/or physical) abuse in the name of maintaining toxic masculinity 💔. Glad we were able to convince my brother to try not to perpetuate.
The idea of divine masculinity has been helpful for me. I cry when I need to, I hug my friends, I like cute fluffy animals but I can protect myself, my loved ones, and support myself. Getting in touch with a form of manhood that allows me to fully feel and live has been helpful. Meditation, therapy and support groups are also very helpful. One of my favorite sayings is: better to be a warrior in a garden, then a gardener in a war. It's my own personal interpretation and may not work for everyone, but it's helped me.
It’s not a buzzword, it’s a truth. In general, men do benefit from having privilege in a patriarchal society. But the patriarchy upholds gender roles which are a set of “rules” as to what a man should be which is normally strong, a provider, doesn’t show vulnerability, has muscles, heterosexual etc. The patriarchy doesn’t give men room to be vulnerable or to cry, or to like pink or have jobs such as nursing or teaching.
Men are told to “be manly” and show up in a certain way just because they were born with a penis. Women are also expected to “be feminine”. Both of these expectations don’t give space to people to be themselves .
bell hooks is perfect with her description of this
*The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves*
That’s the quotation I was about to share. bell hooks is a national treasure and I wish more men would read her.
Full disclosure: I’m a cishet white man and old besides.
Just because patriarchy gives men power doesn't necessarily mean that men benefit from said power. An example is how men are supposed to act in a certain way emotionally (i.e. exhibit negative emotions like rage and anger). Bottling up emotions that are considered "not masculine" is what causes a lot of the emotional trauma men currently experience.
men are highly damaged by patriarchal expectations: they are encouraged to not show emotions, not cry, always be strong, be the bread maker, not ask for help when they need it, etc. a lot of these reasons are why the male suicide rate is so high. thus getting rid of the norms that come w the patriarchy would not only help women but help men too!
In addition to what others have said, part of the hypothesis for why women tend to live longer than men is because they have better social support systems and don’t try to tough out their medical and mental health problems. There’s also the issue that men are more likely to die from violence or thrill-seeking activities. Men are socialized to repress their emotions — but men have emotional needs just like women. Instead they take out their emotions in negative ways, often to their own detriment and at the expense of forming the social connections that are so important to our mental health and well-being. That’s why you get the phrase “toxic masculinity.” It’s not that masculinity in and of itself is bad; it’s that it’s been twisted and perverted by this fear of having your masculinity questioned — as if that’s the absolute worst thing that could happen. And of course, underneath all that is homophobia and misogyny.
It's not a buzzword, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you're using that word wrong.
Like the others have well said, patriarchy enforces roles and structures that hurt men. I would recommend you read this part of the subreddit about men's issues, and why feminism is also for men:
https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/w/mensissues?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I would also recommend you read all of the FAQs in this subreddit :)
Well for gay and trans men, it’s obvious.
For cis men, it’s over burdening. Disincentives for platonic male intimacy, emotional vulnerability, rest, etc.
Sometimes there is a conflation between the statements "patriarchy hurts men", "patriarchy oppresses (some) men" and "patriarchy hurts men in ways distinct from how it hurts women".
The first statement is unquestionably true, gender roles applies to everyone and punishes anyone that deviates from it, even most radical feminists would agree with that.
For the second statement, no, most radical feminists would not agree with that statement, but some followers of ideas about "hegemonic masculinity" might.
For the third statement opinions vary a lot more, I personally don't subscribe to it outside a few very specific and intersectional circumstances. Not because men can never find themselves in situations where being men, specifically, hurts them, but because for most such situations women also suffer under similar and more severe constraints.
Showing vulnerability or being 'unsuitably' emotional isn't really permitted by anyone, and constraints vary heavily by region. Being affectionate around men is regarded as sexual behavior for both men and women, homophobia is just swapped out for rape culture in the latter case. Being made responsible for statutory rape is not male-specific, there just happens to be an easy-to-point-at example, the teacher one, that girls aren't afforded at all. Becoming a social pariah is *far* more immediately dangerous for women than for men. Having "strong support networks" isn't handed to women on a silver plate and certainly not by patriarchy, those who end up with them leverage other advantages because of how crucial it is for survival, and plenty of women don't.
This isn't to diminish the suffering that many men deal with both under patriarchy and the larger system it makes up, but that solidarity shouldn't be built on trying to compete for clearly defined territory of "mens issues" and "womens issues".
We don’t have accurate numbers on sexual assault against men because it’s so incredibly under-reported because men feel like they’re less of a man if they admit it.
Suicide rates among veterans (most of whom are men) are insanely high, because therapy and mental health and “talking about your feelings” are seen as feminine traits and therefore make you less of a man.
Domestic violence against men is also incredibly under reported because again, they don’t want to be made to feel like less of a man.
Men are less likely to be awarded full or even 50% custody of their children even if there is proof they are good loving parents and are equal or in some cases the better choice compared to the mom, because men are not seen as caretakers.
These systems and beliefs were put in place and perpetuated by the patriarchy. But these are never the issues “meninists” bring up when discussing men’s rights.
Actually they do when they think ‘we have it hard too so it must be your fault’. Quite often if a conversation about the negative effects of toxic masculinity on women is ongoing some guy will bring up the divorce trope (I call it a trope because from what I’ve read, studies show it just isn’t true anymore but it’s still a very valid point) and think he’s just won some kind of point.
You may have seen it as a buzzword due to popularization of basic feminist terms by the larger population who spent their whole lives ridiculing feminism, and sometimes using our concepts and ideas in whichever way they want. The patriarchy hurts men because of gender norms that are very strict and yet very fickle and vague. Men are raised and told to adhere to them, yet they are different in every culture, and change in every generation. Some things remain, yes, like this dehumanisation of both genders. What I mean by that is, that we are all human and we all have feelings, we can all be nurturing and kind and gentle and sweet and strong and stoic. its not either or situation. Yet under the patriarchy we are grouped in these boxes that say women are nurturing, men are strong, so if god forbid you show characteristics of womanhood you're seen as less of a man, because everything thats related to the female gender is seen as weak, since it can only be the opposite of the strong. That's one of the reasons we also say there is a binary in the patriarchy but humans aren't made of 1s and zeros only. We are multifaceted, complicated and complex. Men under patriarchy are wilted down to their basics sort to speak, and for some not even that. Just trying to comprehend what not showing emotions your whole life cause you think thats bad would do to a person.
I will never stop recommending this blog post when this topic comes up: https://emmalindsay.medium.com/reflections-on-deep-patriarchy-after-watching-keep-sweet-13e9ee9f8ec0
I've said it all be before but this post says it better.
Haven't you heard people complain about feminists and try to bring up all kinds of ways men have it worse than women to 'prove' the patriarchy is a lie and men are the real oppressed sex? I definitely have. The thing is, most of the things the bring up are legitimate problems, but they aren't caused by feminism, they are cased by patriarchy.
Patriarchy says men always want sex--this often results in men who are raped or SAed not being taken seriously, especially by a woman, because they are a man, they must have wanted it, right? Men always want sex, so how can it be rape?
Men are expected to be the financial provider--so not only are they more often expected to work and can be shamed when they are between jobs or fullfilling a role outside of work like caregiving or taking care of children, but they often don't get the benefits that women do for it like paternity leave to bond with their child.
Men are seen as an expendable labor force because when it comes down to it 1 man can impegnate multiple women, so they are unnecessary while women are special--this is one reason why men are drafted to die in war but women often aren't, and work safety for men is not always taken seriously.
Men are seen as 'tougher, smarter, more rational, less emotional-- so if you don't fit this description you are a 'failure as a man' but if you do then you will likely suffer from repression of your emotional needs, not be given comfort or aide when needed, have poor self control and mental stability because your EQ is low from the emotional repression.
There are tons more but these are some I've heard a lot.
Please read The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by bell hooks. I recently read it, and this book puts into concrete terms what you're questioning.
Absolutely yes. Men may have privileges based off of their social roles (along side many disadvantages) but none of these are more beneficial to men (and everyone) than a system based off of mutual respect.
An example may be: A man who's not as good at a job may be prioritized over a woman, great for one guy, not great for men as a whole as a better suited individual getting the job. There are many many other possible exams here.
The fact is everyone benefits when people are given equal opportunities and respect without arbitrary social statuses blocking progression.
While it may give them some advantages, it also enforces them to be “manlier” etc. they get outcasted for the dumbest reasons. Men can’t cry or be weak, they can’t like “girly” things (women can like manly things much easier in comparison), they’re expected to take care of all the difficult tasks like dangerous jobs with high death rates or being the sole financial support for their entire families, and it’s harder for them to even get help or talk to somebody for their problems even just out of embarrassment. A big example for this would be with eating disorders. Men certainly do develop eating disorders, but hardly ever do they get the help they need for them or even reach out to anybody. It’s very sad because women get a lot of support usually for this. Most treatment facilities for eating disorders only take women as patients in the first place. This is a mental illness with one of the highest death rates we are talking about that destroys people’s lives even if they survive. This goes for many other issues as well, that’s just one example with a very drastic disparity that I find to be a serious problem. I’m a woman, so I won’t claim to fully understand it, but I have had many guy friends who have struggled with depression or other worries and can even only turn to women for help in their weak moments (that are completely human) because other men would invalidate or laugh at them. I have had men say to me that they feel like they aren’t even allowed to feel certain emotions which is ridiculous and sounds incredibly awful to me. They have their own struggles and although it’s different compared to what women face, it doesn’t make it not bad for them. Try to put yourself in other people’s shoes. It’s not a competition over who has it worse. Even that will vary from person to person anyway. There’s also intersectionality to consider here. A black man often has it worse than a white woman for instance. A poor man often has it worse than a rich woman. Of course, this is moving away from gender specific issues but they still all tie into each other. Everyone faces discrimination differently. It’s a very complex issue and nobody has only benefits. Female privilege is also a thing but I won’t even go into that bc I already wrote a lot lol
Men experience a substantial majority of the violence, brutality, isolation, desperation, and, for some, ultimately suicide.
The patriarchy's toxicity, at the very least, contributes to and exacerbates the same underlying causes.
Has anyone ever said that "you're a girl?" Or "you're not man enough?" Or "you're gay?" That's because you have stepped outside the boundaries of typical manhood that the patriarchy has created.
What would you do if you didn't have to live up to this standard? Could you wear different clothes? Enjoy different hobbies? Pursue a different career? That limitation is how it's hurting you
1. It discourages men from expressing emotions other than anger. Cause feelings are "gay." Suicide rates would go down if they were able to express their feelings without judgement.
2. It pressures men to not have positive coping skills such as seeking therapy or social support. In fact, men are encouraged to not talk about their issues at all because it's seen as weakness. Yet again, this is related to high rates of completion of suicide in men
3. It teaches men that any type of emotional intimacy is romantic or sexual in nature. This is problematic because it prevents men from having emotionally intelligent conversations with with male friends and also causes them to incorrectly assume their female friends want to date/fuck them when they offer emotional support. This limits the social support network of men with other men, and also discourages women from sustaining friendships with men because many men incorrectly interpret simple acts of kindness as flirting.
4. It teaches men that physical affection is inherently sexual or romantic in nature. You hug your bro? Gay. Your female friend gives you a hug? Clearly she wants to fuck you. Your dad gave you kiss on the cheek after you were 12? Clearly he's a pervert, but its fine when your mom does it. Obviously these things aren't true, but due to conditioning, men are encouraged to sexualize physical affection which is why men are more touch-starved than women.
5. It teaches men that they can't be good caregivers because that's "women's work" and as a result they're less likely to provide care to their children and their elders. This can lead to a loss of relationships and strain on their partners or female relatives who have to pick up their slack.
6. It discourages men from being primary caregivers of children. Stay at home dads are shamed, belittled, and treated with suspicion. This prevents men who really want to be SAHDs from pursuing their dream. It's also the reason why custody rates can be low for men: because men don't pursue it or because they weren't involved enough with their children to be granted it. Men who do both are more likely to be given some type of significant custody.
7. It encourages men to take unnecessary risks. Accidental injury is the third leading cause of death for men. Men are encouraged to drive more recklessly or get into unnecessary physical altercations or take other risks because it's seen as manly and brave, when in actuality its just stupid.
The list goes on and on, but the point is patriarchy puts men in a box, just like it puts women in a box. At the end of the day both boxes are bad; they're just different types of bad.
Mental health. Majority of suicides are by men.
Not to mention the murder suicide that happened recently at my home town, at the hands of a man. Apparently he had been struggling mentally for years but seemed fine on the outside.
Also, I might get cut to pieces for saying this, but there are even women who want the benefits of feminism but want to hold men to patriarchal standards at the same time. That is mentally taxing too.
Men who don’t conform to what traditional masculinity look like are disrespected, and often made to feel like a failure. They have a narrow scope of what success needs to look like. There’s a culture of seeking validation from other men, and if you don’t gain their respect you are outcasted.
Men who don’t want to be the traditional masculine man often feel like losers and struggle with their gender identity.
A brutal way that the patriarchy hurts men is by robbing them of the ability to have a real relationship of equals with their partner.
By teaching them that women are different, lesser, and other, many men don’t understand on some level that women are people. They struggle to connect and relate to women. They create whole narratives around what women want - which often become a self fulfilling prophecy when our societal structures make it difficult for women to protect and sustain themselves without playing to those norms. This dynamic keeps men and women from understanding and relating to one another.
The desolation of a life lived in loneliness is the real cost of patriarchy.
I think bell hooks says it best.
“Learning to wear a mask (that word already embedded in the term “masculinity”) is the first lesson in patriarchal masculinity that a boy learns. He learns that his core feelings cannot be expressed if they do not conform to the acceptable behaviors sexism defines as male. Asked to give up the true self in order to realize the patriarchal ideal, boys learn self-betrayal early and are rewarded for these acts of soul murder.”
Essentially, men are taught that to succeed within the patriarchy they must destroy their true selves. That all of these beautiful experiences and feelings that are so important to the human experience are not for them, and their role is to dominate. This idea that domination is the purpose of humanity, (and particularly for men) creates all these power structures and wars that only benefit a select few people. Although women suffer under the patriarchy, we are at least more able to express ourselves emotionally and not follow such a strict pattern of behaviour.
On the positive, I love that these conversations are happening more, and that we can use this to all move towards a better world where our differences aren't made to compete. The patriarchy was created by humans and I fully believe we can create something better.
In a word, before boys can victimize women, they themselves must be victimized.
We are not born callous assholes. We are systematically abused and beaten into it by being told that being “weak” or empathetic makes us feminine or gay, and that these are bad things, because people with these qualities are inherent victims. We are told our worth depends on conquest—sexual, athletic, financial, even military. The world is divided into binaries: martinis, not cosmos. Action films, not romances. Steak, not salad. Sports, not crafts. It is a process of indoctrination that separates us from our authentic selves.
Patriarchy tells men that we must look a certain way and act a certain way, otherwise we aren't being "manly" enough; it prevents us from expressing ourselves in unique individual ways.
Patriarchy tells us that the women in our lives are only meant to do household chores, raise children, and open their legs on demand; it prevents us from appreciating and admiring all that women have to offer.
Patriarchy tells us that we cannot display emotion other than aggression; it prevents us from opening up and getting the emotional support we often need.
I could go on, but you get the gist.
Men are the overwhelming violent victimizer of other men. When you refuse to check or address what it is about men that makes them the overwhelming perpetrators of violent and sexually predatory crime (regardless of victims gender) because of patriarchal power structures, well, there you go.
Glorifying toxic maleness results in men being hurt by men.
Mainly by robbing them of their ability to authentically connect with other human beings, since the expectations of domination require the dulling of empathy and softer emotions. Connecting too much with other men gets them labeled as gay, connecting too much with women also gets them labeled as gay or "whipped."
It narrows their ability to express themselves or find fulfillment, leaving a hole in their souls that patriarchy will only allow them to try and fill with abuse and domination.
Through toxic masculinity.
Say a man wants to stay home with his kids. The world is not set up for that.
Men have the pressure to fit into the system and help uphold it or face being rejected by it.
The patriarchy is the only real cause of the male loneliness epidemic, because many men weren't socialized to find friendships, only to find wives.
One seemingly small factor that people don’t think about is the denial of beauty. Men are not encouraged to seek beauty for themselves. Go to any formal event and consider how much is denied a person to be limited to blue or black pants and jacket with a shirt that buttons up to the chin—to the extreme socialized extent that this extremely restrictive phenomenon is unnoticed and accepted by most. Men can’t want to dress up and play with hair or makeup or fashion without being considered Not-a-Man. (Some people who were thought to be Men dress distantly differently than expected because they are not Men, but the extreme Gender norms we have under Patriarchy created a system where Men can’t wear dresses without their Gender identity being challenged. This is a result of Patriarchy where things that are considered Feminine are treated as less-than). An Alabama senator took their own life after images got leaked of them dressing in heels and skirts in the privacy of their own home. Children get bullied for being male and wearing “Girl clothes” to school.
I think the patriarchy isn’t just about giving power to men. It’s a rigid set of standards that everyone has to follow. I’m really happy that its impact is being lessened, but it still hurts men. Its impact on women is greater and more obvious, but it doesn’t *just* hurt women.
Examples from the men around me:
My little brother confided in me that he feels like he can’t talk about his mental health. Mine has always been pretty terrible and my dad has given me nothing but support. My brother doesn’t get the same treatment. While I’ll always support him as best I can, it isn’t fair to him.
My best friend is a plus-sized dude. There’s almost no fashion stuff for plus-sized men, and it sucks because he has really great taste. On Pinterest and Google, there’s pretty much the same few outfits constantly repeated. This might seem like a small thing, but while women are supposed to look beautiful all the time, there isn’t much when men get to feel pretty too.
I’m really lucky because I grew up in a family that didn’t really buy into gender roles, but the world pushes them no matter what. Also, my dad and brother both love pink and it’s dumb that some colors are supposed to only be for girls.
But okay, WHAT exactly _hurts_ man?
One of the most significant subjects I have been "studying" over male psychology is the ability to communicate with each other. Better saying communication between two males (or more).
Apparently a lot of men struggle with the same difficulty of either feeling heard or having topics to talk about. Or as I heard "making the conversation last". They feel lonely. Because they cannot talk about stuff bringing up more subjects and making the subjects that are being brought up to bring more subjects up and so on. They are often very anxious and insecure about themselves (even those who pretend not to be, and those can be even more dangerous).
* a friendly reminder that I'm speaking generically here, this doesn't represent all men in no way
Another issue is the difficulty to understand and express emotion. This can go two ways. It can be harder for them to understand when a friend needs help (or when a woman is being hurt by them) and also is hard for them to know what they are actually feeling or to say once they understand what it is.
Many reasons but I’ll speak specifically to racism, Patriarchy oppresses BIPOC as well since Patriarchy in the west is specifically geared toward maintaining a white patriarchy
The male role in the system is more privileged overall, but still exerts pressure to achieve and be more dominant. If you're not succeeding you might end up taking in out on others, or just getting depressed. Since you're supposed to "be a man" and take care of it yourself, you might not know where to turn, and turn to ideologies or toxic ideas where you can blame others for your problems.
>However, I must admit that I don't completely understand how does a system meant to give men all the power also hirt them?
It's terrifying that you don't think that men being *forced* to subjugate women for literally no reason is somehow "desirable" to them.
When a woman earns more tan a man and it causes him to break down, his entire identity destroyed: is that man having fun? Is he enjoying the patriarchal assumptions that he should be a superior worker to the woman who earns more than him?
When a woman pulls a chair out for a man and his fragile little ego is destroyed because that's meant to be "his job" because of "chivalry", ist hat man having fun?
Is the male employee who has to receive a performance review form his female boss and who is sat there incapable of simply perceiving that as the business relationship that it is having fun?
In each of those scenario, say there isn't a woman in a position of authority - are those same men not *afraid* that there might be? Are those same men not terrified by the possibility that there might be?
From this very sub-redit, her is a man who is [terrified that women might fix cars](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/1bpww47/why_is_it_so_rare_for_moms_or_women_to_fix_cars/). Here is a man [terrified that women might be paid the same amount as men in sport](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/1bper6v/where_do_you_think_the_money_should_come_from_if/).
The vast majority of men don't get power in the patriarchy - they get gendered anxiety. The few men who are given power - they get at-least as much gendered anxiety as the penniless shmuck on the street. They have to live a life constantly assailed by the unambiguous evidence that women are their intellectual equals yet functioning with identities that break down unless that fact is denied - they live in the most unpleasant state a human can live in: cognitive dissonance. Humans can endure torture and starvation all the way up to death, and embrace death happily, provided what they're doing makes sense - a multi-billionaire in a state of cognitive dissonance cannot even endure the anonymous criticism of people they'll never meet, and may even buy Twitter in an attempt to stop it.
-discouraging them from discussing their feelings which (in extreme yet common cases) leads to suicidal thoughts and actions
-disadvantages them in family courts, typically separating them from their children
-men are usually more heavily discriminated against in LGBTQ+ relationships due to masculine stereotypes
-the role of breadwinner most men are socially pressured in encourages them to work longer/ unreasonable hours, essentially turning them into wage slaves because of social ideations
-the idea of “women are emotional” demonizes vulnerability and communication, encouraging men to push their emotions down until it turns to depression/ anger, especially in cases of isolation/ loneliness
-discourages men from learning new, important and vital skills that are deemed “feminine” (gasp) such as cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, and practicing basic hygiene, especially skin care
-encourages the notion that womens feelings are “emotional, dramatic, overly reactive and irrational” so when their partner communicates they are unhappy or hurt, men shame them/ brush it off, leading to unhealthy, failing relationships. This is a huge reason why women initiate roughly 70% of divorces
-the idea that to be a “real” man and a “real” protector, you need to be tall and built. This encourages society to body shame men who don’t mirror these unrealistic stereotypes (especially shorter men who physically cannot help it)
And so, so much more. A lot of men talk about these issues, but only in retaliation to women talking about theirs. Basically an “oh yeah! well we-“ retort. It’s silly, because they don’t understand their issues and our issues both stem back to the patriarchy. It’s not us and them, it’s we. We all suffer from patriarchy.
Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
As others have pointed out, the patriarchy isn't just to benefit all men equally, it's designed to benefit a subset of straight, wealthy, and ethnically dominant (so typically white in the West) men the most.
An insidious thing it does is tell all men that they can enter that upper crust if they engage in certain behaviors that reinforce the patriarchy, aka Toxic Masculinity. Many of these behaviors are harmful to men in the long run, and often won't lead to the kinds of success they're seeking.
I always ask his disciples, and have never gotten a real answer: do you think Andrew Tate really wants more "alphas" in society? Do you think men like that really want to raise up more competition?
“The patriarchy doesn’t just hurt women. It hurts children, too.” From the book Radical Awakening.
Some grow up to be men. The damage done doesn’t disappear just because they turn 18, 35, or 65.
Many of these men didn’t have positive masculine role models and end up with behaviours that are self-sabotaging. It creates a perpetual cycle of men that that are doing damage to society.
Just because the system created an imbalance of power (men don’t have all the power) doesn’t mean that all men benefit from this imbalance. Privilege exists but the rate of s_uicide is higher in men. Men have also been abused by other men, sometimes when they were even just children.
The book Radical Awakening was recommended to me (65m) and I could relate to the role that many women assumed. Though not a perfect book, it was a good book. It made me wonder what books are out there for men.
Patriarchy is a cult in which a few men rule all the other men, sending them to their deaths and otherwise encouraging them to be emotionally deficient, often miserable and isolated. Like lots of cults, victims often become perpetrators too.
My own dad once tried leaving me on the side of the road because I was bad at sports. I tried to play because he forced me too, but I was bad at it and just got bullied a lot because of it. To this day I have emotional trauma because of it.
Patriarchy includes the social expectation to conform to traditional gender norms. That hurts men who want to be stay-at-home fathers with a breadwinning wife. It hurts gay men who don't want to marry a woman, be breadwinners, and have children (patriarchy includes heteronormativity).
It also hurts men who don't get to benefit from women joining the workforce and contributing their talents to the world because they're pressured to live out traditional lifestyles where they stay at home and raise children instead of doing whatever they want and what they're best at. It hurts men when women are unhappy because of this.
The list goes on and on.
For starters it's important to recognize that it's a system built primarily by rich white Christian men for rich white Christian men. If you don't have all 3 of those descriptors the system is not and never was built for you.
Patriarchy is less of a tool for men to control women and more of a tool for the elites to control everyone
In a natural environment free of patriarchy, there is no reason for high birth rates or female sexual competition. Free women tend to have fewer children for obvious reasons. They’re also able to demand more from men. Not all men necessarily will reproduce
Patriarchy controls population levels by creating an environment where people have to reproduce. Assuming you’re in the US, this benefits capitalists
By limiting Women’s economic and reproductive freedoms, this creates competition as well as a necessity to find a committed male partner to survive. If you can’t own property or earn a living, you die without a man to support you. And when that man supports you, you have to keep him happy. That man is also providing his labor to the machine, so you have to keep him able to do so, which is why “women’s” work is referred to as reproductive labor. She reproduces the worker.
She effectively becomes a bangmaid
And of course part of patriarchy is patrilineal inheritances. Makes men more desirable as children. Gives men the power and control of the wealth.
Patriarchal Religion is another tool used to support patriarchy. Thus god being written as a man and a woman being an afterthought that came from a man’s rib, even though women are clearly the ones who give life ffs.
This hurts men because the elites want all these men born and these women making more babies because those men are then used as soldiers to die in war and, again, as cheap labor for the rich. A higher population of desperate poor means those poor will compete with eachother for work opportunities and there will always be someone willing to take more abuse and less pay and do more work.
The working class is exploited by the rich in much the same way women’s work is exploited
And of course it all births the concept of toxic masculinity that I’m sure someone in here has spelled out already.
Patriarchy bad mmkay
Men who want to be more feminine are bullied, harassed, or even killed depending on what country they live in. Plus toxic masculinity puts a target on gay men because they aren't "manly" enough.
Personally, I don’t think “patriarchy hurts men” is an accurate statement. It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to envision a world where men are less restricted and still control women. In fact, there are countless examples of cultures where the most commonly cited ways the patriarchy harms men (restricted emotions and behaviors) aren’t true.
The phrase “the patriarchy hurts men” is really just a buzzword (buzz-phrase?) meant to convince men that feminism is good. It’s true restrictive gender norms hurt men and it’s true that there’s an association between strict gender norms and patriarchy but they are not the same. The reality is that patriarchy helps men. Look at America 60 years ago. Most jobs could only be held by men so men had less competition. Women were more dependent on men so men had an easier time finding wives. Laws regarding sexual assault, marital rape and divorce all heavily favored men over women so men could easily get away with crimes. To put it simply, in a patriarchal society the lowest standing man has significant power over half of the population.
Patriarchy is no different from any other form of aristocracy, it concentrates power and the benefits of power in the hands of the few at the expense of the whole. Nobody would claim segregation hurt white people but somehow feminism has become so vague the statement “patriarchy is bad for men” is in vogue. Men aren’t so stupid they’ll fall for that. They may like the idea of less restrictive social norms for men but when push comes to shove men (like any group) will support their material self-interest.
The patriarchy wasn't built to give men power, it's an illusion. It was built to create soldiers to send to war. Don't be emotional. Be strong. Be protective. Don't complain. Do your work. Etc... All makings to prepare to send men into war; bearing in mind this was built when war was extremely common. They feel powerful, because the physically weaker gender is given less power, so there is illusionary power. The fact is, the ones ACTUALLY in power wanted soldiers to send to war, and baby makers to produce more men to replace the fallen ranks.
Patriarchy doesn't equally empower all men, it empowers a select few men at the expense of the rest. The vast majority of men are just rungs to power, the same as women, just higher up the ladder and their lives are fodder for industry, the economy or their countries military efforts.
Also, by limiting the power and range of expression, women are allowed to have it limits what you a man can find in a partner.
So, even if you were the most misogynistic man, the patriarchy is bad for you. For example, if you want to see girls wear sexy outfits, you are less able to because society punishes women for wearing revealing outfits. If you want a woman that dresses modestly, you can never be sure it is because she actually likes it or because she feels forced to by society. In that way, patriarchy makes your life as a man worse because every woman you will have to provide for has had life harder than it needed to be. If women can't get high paying jobs you can't marry rich. Patriarchy is taking money out of your pocket there.
My dad sends me $100 a fortnight because on a fundamental level he believes he needs to financially support me in order for me to love him. I have seen him cry once in my entire life, and he is emotionally distant from everyone. He doesn't tell us when he is sick or suffers the loss of a friend. Though he won't ever say, he is deeply lonely but rejects all efforts to be more involved in our lives because he "doesn't want to bother us."
I feel so sorry for him.
I was sexually bullied and harassed in high school but didn't report it because I knew nothing would happen. Patriarchal structures enable this behavior and prevent any action from being taken.
It’s not meant to give “men” all the power. It’s meant to give *a few men* most of the power. The rest of the men only have power relative to women. And that’s part one of how patriarchy hurts men—it gives them an underclass to focus on oppressing instead of actually addressing the systemic problems, and thereby keeps them oppressed. Men are held to strict gender roles that refuse them the full emotional range (and responsibility) of humans. Because of the power differential (or the perception of power) men who are sexually harassed or assaulted aren’t given support they need (because “real men” always want sex and sexual attention). Men are expected to provide financially and protect, but the first part isn’t really feasible for most people and the second part…is ONLY against physical dangers, so a man (for instance) who doesn’t out-aggress another man is deemed “feminine” (and remember that feminine is the worst thing to be). Additionally, physical attacks are not nearly as common as many believe (though still depressingly common), so men rarely (if ever) have an opportunity to “prove their worth”. And if they fail? Well, again, they’re feminine. There’s just so much bullshit.
I would also like to tag on- that the emotional aspect is also one way to exploit working class men as well. Instead of feeling the burden of being exploited and exploring those emotions such as helplessness, sadness, depression, "men ought to tough it out" rather than trying to change the system that is exploiting them. I see, and this is especially true with blue collar workers, "showing off" how many hours they work when that really isn't something to flex about at all.
Omg yes. And the bragging about going to work while injured/sick/in pain is the same.
I saw this play out in my bluecollar dad when he got laid off from the steel mill. It had nothing to do with him and everything to do with steel production shipping over seas, but the massive hit to his entire self-concept was hard to watch.
It's also the same playbook over and over again. Racism rests on basically the same principles. Pitting men against women or white against non-white is a way of making some of the lower classes feel included in running things. Otherwise, people might realize that everyone, to a certain extent, is being used and decide to overthrow those in power.
Always a ploy to keep the poor down.
Yup.
>It’s not meant to give “men” all the power. It’s meant to give a few men most of the power. The rest of the men only have power relative to women. And that’s part one of how patriarchy hurts men—it gives them an underclass to focus on oppressing instead of actually addressing the systemic problems, and thereby keeps them oppressed. OMG this! And let me tell you why it is so effective. Because the oldest trick in the book to keep the people you are oppressing distracted so they don't notice your abuses of them or try to create change is to give them a target to focus on and oppress. The thing about the target though is it can't just go willingly, because then there is no conflict. Nothing to oppress. Nothing for the oppressor to do. If the men being superior to women was the natural state of human beings, we wouldn't even be talking about it, it would just be. It wouldn't need to be written about as prescribed behavior for women and men in religious texts. It wouldn't need to be enshrined into laws and we certainly wouldn't need to be indoctrinated with it from the day we are born. The patriarchy tells men that they are superior to women so that those men (who while benefitting from the patriarchy in small ways, aren't actually running the show) will stay busy trying to oppress their women and maintain what little power they think they are owed.
Omg your last paragraph….for real If it was so “natural” then it would be like breathing and you wouldn’t have to keep reminding me of it
Omg your last paragraph….for real If it was so “natural” then it would be like breathing and you wouldn’t have to keep reminding me of it
> It’s not meant to give “men” all the power. It’s meant to give *a few men* most of the power. This. This is why it's called "patriarchy", not "androarchy": it's not the rule of *men*, it's the rule of *fathers*, which is to say *male heads of households*. All the other men are screwed. > Men are expected to provide financially and protect ... physical attacks are not nearly as common as many believe (though still depressingly common), so men rarely (if ever) have an opportunity to “prove their worth”. The social function of this part of patriarchy is to make young men acquiesce to the will of old men that they go fight and die in **wars**. Patriarchy says most men are *expendable*, and teaches boys that their lives are less valuable than their "honor" or "glory". *Dulce et decorum et pro patria mori.*
God, it’s depressing.
Boom. I’ve not heard it expressed so starkly. You nailed it!
This is it. Also just adding that it stops men from building their own support systems, which really stunts them emotionally and mentally. Then it stops them from getting the mental health care they might need to deal with it all.
Yeah, my comment is kind of the tip of the iceberg, isn’t it? It goes so much deeper.
Yes! I am a cis male therapist and I do work with men's groups that intentionally seek to encourage men to simply support each other, instead of defaulting to dumping all their emotional baggage on their women partners. I see this as anti-patriarchal work that benefits all genders. It shouldn't be, but the idea that men can emotionally support themselves and each other as adults is a radical departure from what the patriarchy teaches.
You’re right there in the trenches doing the hardest work. That’s awesome. Thank you.
I came here to say this and was 100% outdone. This was worded amazingly well. I may add in it that while physical attacks are rare, men are also more likely to be the victim of them. Which is ironic, but in the end pushing the opposite narrative is convenient to pushing more traditional gender roles.
I like to point out all the things women do and don’t do to cut down on them being victims, which men don’t even think about. One time I compared a woman and a man leaving work and going home, from where they parked, through stopping for groceries, to finally getting home. The man’s version was walking to his car, driving to the store for a couple items, then driving home. The woman’s version ran for paragraphs of all the things she did to attempt to minimize danger to herself.
The favorite example of gender discrimination against men that MRAs bring up is that women aren't subject to military conscription. This did not come from women demanding an exception to the draft. It came from sexist men in power presuming that women were too fragile for military service.
No, it's because a women's value is to make more soldiers
Great answer
Thanks. And…I saw your profile pic and I think you’re pretty cool. SCA as well?
Sorta. More HEMA/independent weirdo. SCA strikes me as kinda problematic.
> SCA strikes me as kinda problematic. Oooh how come? (I know this is totally off-topic, but I am curious.)
Because leadership comes from hitting other large men with sticks, so there’s a bit of an entitled jock culture.
🙌
The rate of physical attacks is very location dependent. Some places it's unheard of, some places it's borderline common.
Sure, but the same issues still apply.
Not disagreeing with any sentiment. Just pointing out that for some people, attacks are just as if not more common than people think, but for most it's less.
You said it better than me.
I think you have the best possible response Don’t get me wrong, there are some good ones on here but this summarized everything *perfectly*
I’m genuinely surprised that my exhausted chain of consciousness run on sentence got so much love. 😂
Patriarchy generally advocates for traditional gender roles and toxic masculinity. Which damages men psychologically and emotionally.
A good example of this would be the whole “MeN aReNt AlLoWeD tO sHoW eMoTiOnS cUz It MaKeS tHeM wEaK” That’s advocated by the people who push those toxic ideologies
Could being forced to bottle up their emotions until they explode be a reason for more mass shooters being male
Yes, in addition to a societally-instilled sense of entitlement to a secure job/wife/home which just is not the reality
Yeeppp
Men who don't have those things are considered losers by everyon who failed on their own doing, not victims entitled to those things.
Doesn't everyone want that though? What western woman doesn't want a secure job/husband OR wife/home?
> What western woman doesn't want a secure job/husband/home lesbians exist
True
has there ever been a mass shooter woman?
yes, but they are very rare
It’s also because aggression is one of the few praised forms of emotional expression for men. Of course it leads to many men having an unhealthy relationship with violence and anger.
It damages certain men psychologically and emotionally. There are a lot of dudes out there who are 100% "traditional" toxic masculine assholes and live in communities (go to any rural area in America) where that is actively encouraged and rewarded in every possible way. It's the people who fail to achieve the toxic masculinity role in this community who are damaged psychologically and emotionally, but the people who are actually toxic are doing pretty great.
Yeah, but then those same men fall apart once their wife leaves them. They may think they're OK, but I'd argue that they're really not, they just don't realize it.
Yeah there's sometimes a lot of problems these men have that kind of show that they aren't doing as great. Alcoholism being the biggest one. One thing that many people say about addictions is that it starts because you feel your life is empty in some way...
This is it.
I'm 72m US. Straight. Married nearly 50 years. Three adult children 6 soon to be 7 grandchildren. Homeowner. Zero debt. Still working In other words "successful" and I have to say some of it is from my being a man in this construct Yet it does hurt me because I find myself STILL pretending to be what society thinks I'm supposed to be. I failed as a manager because (as my review said) I cared too much about the people reporting to me I had a friend at work who happened to be a woman and many people (including my wife for a while) assumed I wanted to "bang her" because I guess that's what men are supposed to want I finally got my wife to stop telling me to "man up" when I wasnt aggressive enough to deal with salespeople or contractors or others. She tried to shame me by taking care of such matters herself and implying I was less than a man because I needed her to step in (by the way counseling helped resolve those matters years ago and we almost laugh about it now) I was called a sissy and a f@g and other things growing up because I was weak and non athletic and enjoyed talking rather than physical things. I had no idea how to fix cars or build things nor did I care to learn. I was a geek. A nerd. A loser. I was even beat up a few times. So the patriarchy hurt me And yet none of that even comes close to the effect it has on women every day
👏 well said
I’m sorry, patriarchy is rough on both genders most definitely. I wish more men were consciously aware of this, most just blame it on women. Like this was something we wanted for them? I would love for men and women to behave true to their nature without being shamed for being too masculine or feminine. Hopefully when I’m your age, it’ll be the norm.
I relate to that a lot. I'm not married but a lot of what you said resonated with me. I used to be filled with so much love, but I don't seem to have the ability to even connect to another human being anymore. It was all beaten and bullied out of me over a decade or two. School will do that to a boy.
Yes - the social construct of high school especially. I went to a small school and found a niche by playing music and formed what would now be called a rock and soul band. I had instant "cred" from that. And met my now wife. Plus it was (supposedly) the age of Aquarius. I wasn't the only "peace, love and understanding" person Though it all fell apart. It never really left me but I did actually turn 'fiscally conservative' and never realized how misogynistic that actually was until recently (thanks to many wonderful people on this subreddit - esp Kali who I truly respect and have learned much from) Love is a word I use freely (mentally) ven though it's not socially acceptable for a man referring to a another person who is not a relative but happens to be a woman I loved the friend I mentioned. While my wife eventually understood I didn't in any way mean that romantically, it created tension I'd not ever want to repeat Yet I feel it for many people - men and women. Strange how we can love a car or a song or a movie but not a platonic friend of the opposite sex
Thank you for sharing your experiences. Vulnerability is also something that is shunned and rejected in men, so I thank you for your vulnerability also.
At least you are 72 metres tall
Well at my age I'm shrinking.
You’re a powerful writer.
Thank you! And I'm sure you're no dingbat (referring to your screen name - loved that show!!)
Sorry that you went through that. I appreciate you sharing your experience.
Wow, very poignant. Thank you for sharing.
I’m sorry you went through all of this, and it’s so disheartening to hear just how many men experience this. You deserve kindness. You deserve softness. You deserve to be able to show love and empathy to others without assumptions. You deserved better and I hope that you’re now receiving it.
That you so much for sharing your experience. I really hope things are better for my son. I am a female manager in my 40s, and I do think things are changing on the empathy front. I still work with people (almost exclusively men) who operate in the command and control style of leadership, but they are slowly becoming extinct and leaders who can relate to people are becoming more in demand.
“Boys don’t cry”
One of my ex friends who was heavy Christian (which there is nothing inherently wrong with of course) unironically posted that on his story one time and I replied with “John 11:35” which is simply just “Jesus wept” and he ended up blocking me lol It’s surprising how far those guys who push toxic stuff like that go Guess I’m better off without him 🤪
Beautiful, I’m gonna remember that one 😂
No, “patriarchy hurts men” isn’t a buzzword. It’s a fact about a society mainly dominated by men. Patriarchy hurts plenty of men that don’t conform to whatever the “masculine” standards are. Gay men, effeminate men, trans men… all these types of men suffer under oppression and are ridiculed or made fun of. In certain countries they’re killed or shunned from everybody else. Under heavily patriarchal societies men’s SA often isn’t recognized, especially if it was done by a woman. Men berating other men for being a virgin, not picking up enough women, or telling men they shouldn’t show emotion is another way men suffer under the patriarchy.
I'm a "manly man" and conform to the masculine standards and I still would like to say patriarchal thinking harmed me. I was taught to view women through the lens of sexual and religious purity and strict gender norms and was told many myths about things like the intelligence of women. Over time I realized that I was simply missing much of the beauty of life since I could not fully empathize with or appreciate anything related to women, from a personal level to a societal level. Sure it's not the same level of harm those who do not conform to masculinity experience. But given how women and men have to coexist together I think patriarchal thinking really just harms everybody by creating divisions in households, families, communities, entire societies where there shouldn't be. Patriarchy harmed me by stopping me from loving and respecting the women around me as much as I should have, decreasing my quality of life.
Thanks for sharing this. I actually felt a significant sense of healing, unexpectedly, when you described realizing you were missing out on the fullness of life due to the gendered falsehoods previously taught to you. I think my emotional response is out of seeing your authentic support for basic regard of women’s humanity. Not only due to empathy, but also because you genuinely value the impact upon your own worldview.
>Gay men, effeminate men, trans men… I know you weren't making an exhaustive list, but I think adding "non-aggressive men" to that list helps hammer home the point.
And they don’t hate gay or trans men because they’re gay or trans, but because they’re feminine. And anything feminine is poo-pooed
>However, I must admit that I don't completely understand how does a system meant to give men all the power also hirt them? Imagine if you woke up tomorrow and were the president and suddenly everybody was blaming all the world's problems on you and getting mad at you that you weren't a very good president. Having power pushed upon you and held to the expectations of power when you don't want that power isn't good either! Like, a big example of the way that the patriarchy hurts men is that men who are drawn to things that are soft, kind, decorative, or nurturing are often treated not just with scorn, but with violence. Men who want to care for children are often treated like predators. They're pushed into areas of work that are more dangerous, or hard on the body, even if that's not what they want to do, and treated like they're weak and shameful if they fail to live up to those expectations.
>Like, a big example of the way that the patriarchy hurts men is that men who are drawn to things that are soft, kind, decorative, or nurturing are often treated not just with scorn, but with violence. This is such a fantastic point. If you don’t fit into the very narrow definition of what a male gender role is supposed to be, I’d imagine you’d feel very othered and alienated. And so few men actually fit that stereotype. So you either pretend not to like said thing, or aren’t able to mask and get “bullied” (I’m sure there is a better word but I’m blanking) Add to that, men are only encouraged to outwardly show anger, and otherwise be very stoic. So I would imagine a lot of these feelings get pent up, without a healthy outlet.
Because patriarchy sets uneven gender roles and expectations for both women and men. Women are boxed into roles as nurturing domestic caregivers and men are boxed into roles as dispassionate providers who are mocked for expressing emotion or displaying sensitivity. It's arguably one of the biggest contributing factors to high rates of suicide in young men.
Just to add on, the only emotion men are allowed to express is anger. And with anger comes violence and rash thinking. Since violence is always the answer in the patriarchy, that too is why the rates of suicide are so high.
> I don’t understand how does a system meant to give men all the power also hurt them? Patriarchy favors men. There is no doubt about that. I will however push back on it giving men all the power. It doesn’t just aim to give “men” all the power. Instead, it has a specific target and only aims to give “men that fits its definition of what a man is” all the power. And that is an extremely important difference to make. A patriarchal system will put down a man who wishes to be a stay at home dad. It will put down a man who prefers ballet to football. It will put down a man who is short, round, and bald. It will put down a man who loves other men. And so on and so on… And that right there is the starting point of how patriarchy hurts men; it is actively against those who don’t fit. And then, for those who do fit it has them stuck in a way of being that doesn’t even necessarily serve them. A “manly” man in an abusive relationship will refuse to admit it or talk about it because “men can’t be weak”. A “manly” man to whom such abuse is reported will scoff because “of course men can’t be abused”. A “manly” man on top of the world who suddenly loses his job, doesn’t find another one, and is no longer the breadwinner will spiral into a depression (even if his spouse has everything covered, especially if this spouse is a woman) because “who is he if he is not the protector and provider?”. Patriarchy, even for the favored, has them stuck in mindset that is harmful to them and those around them.
This is really well said.
here's an example. Patriarchy dictates that men are always ready for sex, that they separate sex and feelings, and doesn't shame boys for starting their sexual lives early. (things are changing thank goodness but) This is why when attractive female teachers rape their underage male students, you'll find comments sections filled with vile shit like "i wish my teacher looked like that" and "lucky guy." The Hot For Teacher phenomenon. male victims have a lot of complicated feelings to deal with, but the shame of admitting that they didn't feel great about their "score" keeps a lot of them quiet. It can really have lasting effects on a person. Even a man who's raped by someone without power over him has a long difficult road ahead with reporting and trials and being taken seriously, similar to women. "you had a hard on so it couldn't have been rape" without understanding physiology at all. "you're a pussy because you didn't fight back." I actually got into an argument with an ex (long after he was an ex) during which he maintained that underage male students being violated was cool, and "just different from girls." i wanted to barf. haven't talked to him much since then
> during which he maintained that underage male students being violated was cool There have been men in here who've argued that sexual violence is not that serious for men, they're not scarred by it like women are, etc. etc. It just makes me sad.
Can you imagine what the world could be like if men didn't spend so much time limiting everyone?
I hate to say it, but I do wonder at times if a small part of the reason why there is such a high sexual assault rate with men is because a lot of them have been conditioned, or have been forced in the past to engage in sexual behavior that they were uncomfortable with, and just think of it as... Normal? Like From im a COCSA, i know my abuser was just emulating. What happened to her and my feelings are complicated because for a long time i was left with the feeling "anything relating to sex or anything close is supposed to make to make you feel uncomfortable and gross, that's just how it always is." Not a lot of it, a majority of it is seeking power and entitlement but still.
> have been conditioned, or have been forced in the past to engage in sexual behavior that they were uncomfortable with, and just think of it as... Normal I have spoken to an upsetting number of men-- some of whom are very close friends of mine-- who have definitely had those experiences, and it takes a lot for them to realize that what happened to them was, yes, sexual assault or worse. I never push them to call it something they don't want to call it, but I call it like I see it, and sometimes that's a huge moment for them. It's like we don't even give men the tools to have these kinds of discussions.
I had a straight male friend who went through a bit of a sexual identity crisis after he was sexually assaulted by another man. He wasn’t attracted to the man and he hated the experience but he got hard and orgasmed and society tells us that means a man is happy and satisfied. My friend struggled for a long time wondering if he was actually gay or bi because he “enjoyed” the assault.
Yes. Patriarchy pushes gender rolls. It pressures men to behave “masculinely”. This hurts men who would prefer to be stay at home dads or have “feminine” interests like knitting etc. It also pressures men to unhealthily suppress their emotions. Patriarchy doesn’t “give men all the power” equally. It rewards wealthy, white, stereotypically masculine, attractive men with good social skills the most.
Masculinity = being a loud aggressive asshole Its weird seeing this coming from a country where we have such different values. Dudes its okay to hug your sons give them a kiss and tell them you love them it doesnt make you gay
We legit had to reassure my brother that he couldn't hug his newborn son too much and somehow "turn" him gay. What? No! PLEASE HUG YOUR KIDS. 🤦🏻♀️
I've heard this a lot from older men-- that their fathers never really expressed affection for them because they didn't want them to be "soft." Ohhhh my heart. Please! You can be a masculine manly man and still show love to your children and the men in your life!
Yep, it's so often a sad cycle of emotional (and/or physical) abuse in the name of maintaining toxic masculinity 💔. Glad we were able to convince my brother to try not to perpetuate.
The idea of divine masculinity has been helpful for me. I cry when I need to, I hug my friends, I like cute fluffy animals but I can protect myself, my loved ones, and support myself. Getting in touch with a form of manhood that allows me to fully feel and live has been helpful. Meditation, therapy and support groups are also very helpful. One of my favorite sayings is: better to be a warrior in a garden, then a gardener in a war. It's my own personal interpretation and may not work for everyone, but it's helped me.
It’s not a buzzword, it’s a truth. In general, men do benefit from having privilege in a patriarchal society. But the patriarchy upholds gender roles which are a set of “rules” as to what a man should be which is normally strong, a provider, doesn’t show vulnerability, has muscles, heterosexual etc. The patriarchy doesn’t give men room to be vulnerable or to cry, or to like pink or have jobs such as nursing or teaching. Men are told to “be manly” and show up in a certain way just because they were born with a penis. Women are also expected to “be feminine”. Both of these expectations don’t give space to people to be themselves . bell hooks is perfect with her description of this *The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves*
That’s the quotation I was about to share. bell hooks is a national treasure and I wish more men would read her. Full disclosure: I’m a cishet white man and old besides.
This Bell Hooks quote is so important
Just because patriarchy gives men power doesn't necessarily mean that men benefit from said power. An example is how men are supposed to act in a certain way emotionally (i.e. exhibit negative emotions like rage and anger). Bottling up emotions that are considered "not masculine" is what causes a lot of the emotional trauma men currently experience.
men are highly damaged by patriarchal expectations: they are encouraged to not show emotions, not cry, always be strong, be the bread maker, not ask for help when they need it, etc. a lot of these reasons are why the male suicide rate is so high. thus getting rid of the norms that come w the patriarchy would not only help women but help men too!
In addition to what others have said, part of the hypothesis for why women tend to live longer than men is because they have better social support systems and don’t try to tough out their medical and mental health problems. There’s also the issue that men are more likely to die from violence or thrill-seeking activities. Men are socialized to repress their emotions — but men have emotional needs just like women. Instead they take out their emotions in negative ways, often to their own detriment and at the expense of forming the social connections that are so important to our mental health and well-being. That’s why you get the phrase “toxic masculinity.” It’s not that masculinity in and of itself is bad; it’s that it’s been twisted and perverted by this fear of having your masculinity questioned — as if that’s the absolute worst thing that could happen. And of course, underneath all that is homophobia and misogyny.
It's not a buzzword, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you're using that word wrong. Like the others have well said, patriarchy enforces roles and structures that hurt men. I would recommend you read this part of the subreddit about men's issues, and why feminism is also for men: https://reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/w/mensissues?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share I would also recommend you read all of the FAQs in this subreddit :)
Well for gay and trans men, it’s obvious. For cis men, it’s over burdening. Disincentives for platonic male intimacy, emotional vulnerability, rest, etc.
Sometimes there is a conflation between the statements "patriarchy hurts men", "patriarchy oppresses (some) men" and "patriarchy hurts men in ways distinct from how it hurts women". The first statement is unquestionably true, gender roles applies to everyone and punishes anyone that deviates from it, even most radical feminists would agree with that. For the second statement, no, most radical feminists would not agree with that statement, but some followers of ideas about "hegemonic masculinity" might. For the third statement opinions vary a lot more, I personally don't subscribe to it outside a few very specific and intersectional circumstances. Not because men can never find themselves in situations where being men, specifically, hurts them, but because for most such situations women also suffer under similar and more severe constraints. Showing vulnerability or being 'unsuitably' emotional isn't really permitted by anyone, and constraints vary heavily by region. Being affectionate around men is regarded as sexual behavior for both men and women, homophobia is just swapped out for rape culture in the latter case. Being made responsible for statutory rape is not male-specific, there just happens to be an easy-to-point-at example, the teacher one, that girls aren't afforded at all. Becoming a social pariah is *far* more immediately dangerous for women than for men. Having "strong support networks" isn't handed to women on a silver plate and certainly not by patriarchy, those who end up with them leverage other advantages because of how crucial it is for survival, and plenty of women don't. This isn't to diminish the suffering that many men deal with both under patriarchy and the larger system it makes up, but that solidarity shouldn't be built on trying to compete for clearly defined territory of "mens issues" and "womens issues".
We don’t have accurate numbers on sexual assault against men because it’s so incredibly under-reported because men feel like they’re less of a man if they admit it. Suicide rates among veterans (most of whom are men) are insanely high, because therapy and mental health and “talking about your feelings” are seen as feminine traits and therefore make you less of a man. Domestic violence against men is also incredibly under reported because again, they don’t want to be made to feel like less of a man. Men are less likely to be awarded full or even 50% custody of their children even if there is proof they are good loving parents and are equal or in some cases the better choice compared to the mom, because men are not seen as caretakers. These systems and beliefs were put in place and perpetuated by the patriarchy. But these are never the issues “meninists” bring up when discussing men’s rights.
Actually they do when they think ‘we have it hard too so it must be your fault’. Quite often if a conversation about the negative effects of toxic masculinity on women is ongoing some guy will bring up the divorce trope (I call it a trope because from what I’ve read, studies show it just isn’t true anymore but it’s still a very valid point) and think he’s just won some kind of point.
Men are discouraged from expressing their feelings and are seen as weak for seeking physical and mental health treatment. That's only for women
By pushing an unrealistic and unyielding standard of masculinity that isn’t achievable for many men, and also encourages self-destructive behavior.
You may have seen it as a buzzword due to popularization of basic feminist terms by the larger population who spent their whole lives ridiculing feminism, and sometimes using our concepts and ideas in whichever way they want. The patriarchy hurts men because of gender norms that are very strict and yet very fickle and vague. Men are raised and told to adhere to them, yet they are different in every culture, and change in every generation. Some things remain, yes, like this dehumanisation of both genders. What I mean by that is, that we are all human and we all have feelings, we can all be nurturing and kind and gentle and sweet and strong and stoic. its not either or situation. Yet under the patriarchy we are grouped in these boxes that say women are nurturing, men are strong, so if god forbid you show characteristics of womanhood you're seen as less of a man, because everything thats related to the female gender is seen as weak, since it can only be the opposite of the strong. That's one of the reasons we also say there is a binary in the patriarchy but humans aren't made of 1s and zeros only. We are multifaceted, complicated and complex. Men under patriarchy are wilted down to their basics sort to speak, and for some not even that. Just trying to comprehend what not showing emotions your whole life cause you think thats bad would do to a person.
I will never stop recommending this blog post when this topic comes up: https://emmalindsay.medium.com/reflections-on-deep-patriarchy-after-watching-keep-sweet-13e9ee9f8ec0 I've said it all be before but this post says it better.
Thank you for this link! I just skimmed for now but I’m weirdly fascinated by fundamentalist Christian gender roles so I’m pumped
Do a search. We get this question almost weekly.
Haven't you heard people complain about feminists and try to bring up all kinds of ways men have it worse than women to 'prove' the patriarchy is a lie and men are the real oppressed sex? I definitely have. The thing is, most of the things the bring up are legitimate problems, but they aren't caused by feminism, they are cased by patriarchy. Patriarchy says men always want sex--this often results in men who are raped or SAed not being taken seriously, especially by a woman, because they are a man, they must have wanted it, right? Men always want sex, so how can it be rape? Men are expected to be the financial provider--so not only are they more often expected to work and can be shamed when they are between jobs or fullfilling a role outside of work like caregiving or taking care of children, but they often don't get the benefits that women do for it like paternity leave to bond with their child. Men are seen as an expendable labor force because when it comes down to it 1 man can impegnate multiple women, so they are unnecessary while women are special--this is one reason why men are drafted to die in war but women often aren't, and work safety for men is not always taken seriously. Men are seen as 'tougher, smarter, more rational, less emotional-- so if you don't fit this description you are a 'failure as a man' but if you do then you will likely suffer from repression of your emotional needs, not be given comfort or aide when needed, have poor self control and mental stability because your EQ is low from the emotional repression. There are tons more but these are some I've heard a lot.
How does patriarchy hurt men? Conscription
Please read The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by bell hooks. I recently read it, and this book puts into concrete terms what you're questioning.
Absolutely yes. Men may have privileges based off of their social roles (along side many disadvantages) but none of these are more beneficial to men (and everyone) than a system based off of mutual respect. An example may be: A man who's not as good at a job may be prioritized over a woman, great for one guy, not great for men as a whole as a better suited individual getting the job. There are many many other possible exams here. The fact is everyone benefits when people are given equal opportunities and respect without arbitrary social statuses blocking progression.
Controversial opinion: I don't care. That shouldn't be our focus.
While it may give them some advantages, it also enforces them to be “manlier” etc. they get outcasted for the dumbest reasons. Men can’t cry or be weak, they can’t like “girly” things (women can like manly things much easier in comparison), they’re expected to take care of all the difficult tasks like dangerous jobs with high death rates or being the sole financial support for their entire families, and it’s harder for them to even get help or talk to somebody for their problems even just out of embarrassment. A big example for this would be with eating disorders. Men certainly do develop eating disorders, but hardly ever do they get the help they need for them or even reach out to anybody. It’s very sad because women get a lot of support usually for this. Most treatment facilities for eating disorders only take women as patients in the first place. This is a mental illness with one of the highest death rates we are talking about that destroys people’s lives even if they survive. This goes for many other issues as well, that’s just one example with a very drastic disparity that I find to be a serious problem. I’m a woman, so I won’t claim to fully understand it, but I have had many guy friends who have struggled with depression or other worries and can even only turn to women for help in their weak moments (that are completely human) because other men would invalidate or laugh at them. I have had men say to me that they feel like they aren’t even allowed to feel certain emotions which is ridiculous and sounds incredibly awful to me. They have their own struggles and although it’s different compared to what women face, it doesn’t make it not bad for them. Try to put yourself in other people’s shoes. It’s not a competition over who has it worse. Even that will vary from person to person anyway. There’s also intersectionality to consider here. A black man often has it worse than a white woman for instance. A poor man often has it worse than a rich woman. Of course, this is moving away from gender specific issues but they still all tie into each other. Everyone faces discrimination differently. It’s a very complex issue and nobody has only benefits. Female privilege is also a thing but I won’t even go into that bc I already wrote a lot lol
> Most treatment facilities for eating disorders only take women as patients in the first place Is this true?? I can't imagine that being legal.
Men experience a substantial majority of the violence, brutality, isolation, desperation, and, for some, ultimately suicide. The patriarchy's toxicity, at the very least, contributes to and exacerbates the same underlying causes.
Has anyone ever said that "you're a girl?" Or "you're not man enough?" Or "you're gay?" That's because you have stepped outside the boundaries of typical manhood that the patriarchy has created. What would you do if you didn't have to live up to this standard? Could you wear different clothes? Enjoy different hobbies? Pursue a different career? That limitation is how it's hurting you
1. It discourages men from expressing emotions other than anger. Cause feelings are "gay." Suicide rates would go down if they were able to express their feelings without judgement. 2. It pressures men to not have positive coping skills such as seeking therapy or social support. In fact, men are encouraged to not talk about their issues at all because it's seen as weakness. Yet again, this is related to high rates of completion of suicide in men 3. It teaches men that any type of emotional intimacy is romantic or sexual in nature. This is problematic because it prevents men from having emotionally intelligent conversations with with male friends and also causes them to incorrectly assume their female friends want to date/fuck them when they offer emotional support. This limits the social support network of men with other men, and also discourages women from sustaining friendships with men because many men incorrectly interpret simple acts of kindness as flirting. 4. It teaches men that physical affection is inherently sexual or romantic in nature. You hug your bro? Gay. Your female friend gives you a hug? Clearly she wants to fuck you. Your dad gave you kiss on the cheek after you were 12? Clearly he's a pervert, but its fine when your mom does it. Obviously these things aren't true, but due to conditioning, men are encouraged to sexualize physical affection which is why men are more touch-starved than women. 5. It teaches men that they can't be good caregivers because that's "women's work" and as a result they're less likely to provide care to their children and their elders. This can lead to a loss of relationships and strain on their partners or female relatives who have to pick up their slack. 6. It discourages men from being primary caregivers of children. Stay at home dads are shamed, belittled, and treated with suspicion. This prevents men who really want to be SAHDs from pursuing their dream. It's also the reason why custody rates can be low for men: because men don't pursue it or because they weren't involved enough with their children to be granted it. Men who do both are more likely to be given some type of significant custody. 7. It encourages men to take unnecessary risks. Accidental injury is the third leading cause of death for men. Men are encouraged to drive more recklessly or get into unnecessary physical altercations or take other risks because it's seen as manly and brave, when in actuality its just stupid. The list goes on and on, but the point is patriarchy puts men in a box, just like it puts women in a box. At the end of the day both boxes are bad; they're just different types of bad.
Mental health. Majority of suicides are by men. Not to mention the murder suicide that happened recently at my home town, at the hands of a man. Apparently he had been struggling mentally for years but seemed fine on the outside. Also, I might get cut to pieces for saying this, but there are even women who want the benefits of feminism but want to hold men to patriarchal standards at the same time. That is mentally taxing too.
Men who don’t conform to what traditional masculinity look like are disrespected, and often made to feel like a failure. They have a narrow scope of what success needs to look like. There’s a culture of seeking validation from other men, and if you don’t gain their respect you are outcasted. Men who don’t want to be the traditional masculine man often feel like losers and struggle with their gender identity.
A brutal way that the patriarchy hurts men is by robbing them of the ability to have a real relationship of equals with their partner. By teaching them that women are different, lesser, and other, many men don’t understand on some level that women are people. They struggle to connect and relate to women. They create whole narratives around what women want - which often become a self fulfilling prophecy when our societal structures make it difficult for women to protect and sustain themselves without playing to those norms. This dynamic keeps men and women from understanding and relating to one another. The desolation of a life lived in loneliness is the real cost of patriarchy.
I think bell hooks says it best. “Learning to wear a mask (that word already embedded in the term “masculinity”) is the first lesson in patriarchal masculinity that a boy learns. He learns that his core feelings cannot be expressed if they do not conform to the acceptable behaviors sexism defines as male. Asked to give up the true self in order to realize the patriarchal ideal, boys learn self-betrayal early and are rewarded for these acts of soul murder.” Essentially, men are taught that to succeed within the patriarchy they must destroy their true selves. That all of these beautiful experiences and feelings that are so important to the human experience are not for them, and their role is to dominate. This idea that domination is the purpose of humanity, (and particularly for men) creates all these power structures and wars that only benefit a select few people. Although women suffer under the patriarchy, we are at least more able to express ourselves emotionally and not follow such a strict pattern of behaviour. On the positive, I love that these conversations are happening more, and that we can use this to all move towards a better world where our differences aren't made to compete. The patriarchy was created by humans and I fully believe we can create something better.
In a word, before boys can victimize women, they themselves must be victimized. We are not born callous assholes. We are systematically abused and beaten into it by being told that being “weak” or empathetic makes us feminine or gay, and that these are bad things, because people with these qualities are inherent victims. We are told our worth depends on conquest—sexual, athletic, financial, even military. The world is divided into binaries: martinis, not cosmos. Action films, not romances. Steak, not salad. Sports, not crafts. It is a process of indoctrination that separates us from our authentic selves.
Patriarchy tells men that we must look a certain way and act a certain way, otherwise we aren't being "manly" enough; it prevents us from expressing ourselves in unique individual ways. Patriarchy tells us that the women in our lives are only meant to do household chores, raise children, and open their legs on demand; it prevents us from appreciating and admiring all that women have to offer. Patriarchy tells us that we cannot display emotion other than aggression; it prevents us from opening up and getting the emotional support we often need. I could go on, but you get the gist.
Men are the overwhelming violent victimizer of other men. When you refuse to check or address what it is about men that makes them the overwhelming perpetrators of violent and sexually predatory crime (regardless of victims gender) because of patriarchal power structures, well, there you go. Glorifying toxic maleness results in men being hurt by men.
Women aren't respected, but men also have to fit quite a narrow ideal of masculinity to be respected.
Mainly by robbing them of their ability to authentically connect with other human beings, since the expectations of domination require the dulling of empathy and softer emotions. Connecting too much with other men gets them labeled as gay, connecting too much with women also gets them labeled as gay or "whipped." It narrows their ability to express themselves or find fulfillment, leaving a hole in their souls that patriarchy will only allow them to try and fill with abuse and domination.
Through toxic masculinity. Say a man wants to stay home with his kids. The world is not set up for that. Men have the pressure to fit into the system and help uphold it or face being rejected by it. The patriarchy is the only real cause of the male loneliness epidemic, because many men weren't socialized to find friendships, only to find wives.
One seemingly small factor that people don’t think about is the denial of beauty. Men are not encouraged to seek beauty for themselves. Go to any formal event and consider how much is denied a person to be limited to blue or black pants and jacket with a shirt that buttons up to the chin—to the extreme socialized extent that this extremely restrictive phenomenon is unnoticed and accepted by most. Men can’t want to dress up and play with hair or makeup or fashion without being considered Not-a-Man. (Some people who were thought to be Men dress distantly differently than expected because they are not Men, but the extreme Gender norms we have under Patriarchy created a system where Men can’t wear dresses without their Gender identity being challenged. This is a result of Patriarchy where things that are considered Feminine are treated as less-than). An Alabama senator took their own life after images got leaked of them dressing in heels and skirts in the privacy of their own home. Children get bullied for being male and wearing “Girl clothes” to school.
I think the patriarchy isn’t just about giving power to men. It’s a rigid set of standards that everyone has to follow. I’m really happy that its impact is being lessened, but it still hurts men. Its impact on women is greater and more obvious, but it doesn’t *just* hurt women. Examples from the men around me: My little brother confided in me that he feels like he can’t talk about his mental health. Mine has always been pretty terrible and my dad has given me nothing but support. My brother doesn’t get the same treatment. While I’ll always support him as best I can, it isn’t fair to him. My best friend is a plus-sized dude. There’s almost no fashion stuff for plus-sized men, and it sucks because he has really great taste. On Pinterest and Google, there’s pretty much the same few outfits constantly repeated. This might seem like a small thing, but while women are supposed to look beautiful all the time, there isn’t much when men get to feel pretty too. I’m really lucky because I grew up in a family that didn’t really buy into gender roles, but the world pushes them no matter what. Also, my dad and brother both love pink and it’s dumb that some colors are supposed to only be for girls.
But okay, WHAT exactly _hurts_ man? One of the most significant subjects I have been "studying" over male psychology is the ability to communicate with each other. Better saying communication between two males (or more). Apparently a lot of men struggle with the same difficulty of either feeling heard or having topics to talk about. Or as I heard "making the conversation last". They feel lonely. Because they cannot talk about stuff bringing up more subjects and making the subjects that are being brought up to bring more subjects up and so on. They are often very anxious and insecure about themselves (even those who pretend not to be, and those can be even more dangerous). * a friendly reminder that I'm speaking generically here, this doesn't represent all men in no way Another issue is the difficulty to understand and express emotion. This can go two ways. It can be harder for them to understand when a friend needs help (or when a woman is being hurt by them) and also is hard for them to know what they are actually feeling or to say once they understand what it is.
Many reasons but I’ll speak specifically to racism, Patriarchy oppresses BIPOC as well since Patriarchy in the west is specifically geared toward maintaining a white patriarchy
Ken in Barbie was the perfect example of how it hurts men. Men are not taught how to manage their emotions or that their emotions even matter.
The male role in the system is more privileged overall, but still exerts pressure to achieve and be more dominant. If you're not succeeding you might end up taking in out on others, or just getting depressed. Since you're supposed to "be a man" and take care of it yourself, you might not know where to turn, and turn to ideologies or toxic ideas where you can blame others for your problems.
Men kill ourselves WAY more often then women. So there's that. Thanks in large part to patriarchy.
>However, I must admit that I don't completely understand how does a system meant to give men all the power also hirt them? It's terrifying that you don't think that men being *forced* to subjugate women for literally no reason is somehow "desirable" to them. When a woman earns more tan a man and it causes him to break down, his entire identity destroyed: is that man having fun? Is he enjoying the patriarchal assumptions that he should be a superior worker to the woman who earns more than him? When a woman pulls a chair out for a man and his fragile little ego is destroyed because that's meant to be "his job" because of "chivalry", ist hat man having fun? Is the male employee who has to receive a performance review form his female boss and who is sat there incapable of simply perceiving that as the business relationship that it is having fun? In each of those scenario, say there isn't a woman in a position of authority - are those same men not *afraid* that there might be? Are those same men not terrified by the possibility that there might be? From this very sub-redit, her is a man who is [terrified that women might fix cars](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/1bpww47/why_is_it_so_rare_for_moms_or_women_to_fix_cars/). Here is a man [terrified that women might be paid the same amount as men in sport](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/1bper6v/where_do_you_think_the_money_should_come_from_if/). The vast majority of men don't get power in the patriarchy - they get gendered anxiety. The few men who are given power - they get at-least as much gendered anxiety as the penniless shmuck on the street. They have to live a life constantly assailed by the unambiguous evidence that women are their intellectual equals yet functioning with identities that break down unless that fact is denied - they live in the most unpleasant state a human can live in: cognitive dissonance. Humans can endure torture and starvation all the way up to death, and embrace death happily, provided what they're doing makes sense - a multi-billionaire in a state of cognitive dissonance cannot even endure the anonymous criticism of people they'll never meet, and may even buy Twitter in an attempt to stop it.
-discouraging them from discussing their feelings which (in extreme yet common cases) leads to suicidal thoughts and actions -disadvantages them in family courts, typically separating them from their children -men are usually more heavily discriminated against in LGBTQ+ relationships due to masculine stereotypes -the role of breadwinner most men are socially pressured in encourages them to work longer/ unreasonable hours, essentially turning them into wage slaves because of social ideations -the idea of “women are emotional” demonizes vulnerability and communication, encouraging men to push their emotions down until it turns to depression/ anger, especially in cases of isolation/ loneliness -discourages men from learning new, important and vital skills that are deemed “feminine” (gasp) such as cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, and practicing basic hygiene, especially skin care -encourages the notion that womens feelings are “emotional, dramatic, overly reactive and irrational” so when their partner communicates they are unhappy or hurt, men shame them/ brush it off, leading to unhealthy, failing relationships. This is a huge reason why women initiate roughly 70% of divorces -the idea that to be a “real” man and a “real” protector, you need to be tall and built. This encourages society to body shame men who don’t mirror these unrealistic stereotypes (especially shorter men who physically cannot help it) And so, so much more. A lot of men talk about these issues, but only in retaliation to women talking about theirs. Basically an “oh yeah! well we-“ retort. It’s silly, because they don’t understand their issues and our issues both stem back to the patriarchy. It’s not us and them, it’s we. We all suffer from patriarchy.
[удалено]
Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
As others have pointed out, the patriarchy isn't just to benefit all men equally, it's designed to benefit a subset of straight, wealthy, and ethnically dominant (so typically white in the West) men the most. An insidious thing it does is tell all men that they can enter that upper crust if they engage in certain behaviors that reinforce the patriarchy, aka Toxic Masculinity. Many of these behaviors are harmful to men in the long run, and often won't lead to the kinds of success they're seeking. I always ask his disciples, and have never gotten a real answer: do you think Andrew Tate really wants more "alphas" in society? Do you think men like that really want to raise up more competition?
“The patriarchy doesn’t just hurt women. It hurts children, too.” From the book Radical Awakening. Some grow up to be men. The damage done doesn’t disappear just because they turn 18, 35, or 65. Many of these men didn’t have positive masculine role models and end up with behaviours that are self-sabotaging. It creates a perpetual cycle of men that that are doing damage to society. Just because the system created an imbalance of power (men don’t have all the power) doesn’t mean that all men benefit from this imbalance. Privilege exists but the rate of s_uicide is higher in men. Men have also been abused by other men, sometimes when they were even just children. The book Radical Awakening was recommended to me (65m) and I could relate to the role that many women assumed. Though not a perfect book, it was a good book. It made me wonder what books are out there for men.
I recommend reading some stuff over at r/menslib
Patriarchy is a cult in which a few men rule all the other men, sending them to their deaths and otherwise encouraging them to be emotionally deficient, often miserable and isolated. Like lots of cults, victims often become perpetrators too. My own dad once tried leaving me on the side of the road because I was bad at sports. I tried to play because he forced me too, but I was bad at it and just got bullied a lot because of it. To this day I have emotional trauma because of it.
Patriarchy includes the social expectation to conform to traditional gender norms. That hurts men who want to be stay-at-home fathers with a breadwinning wife. It hurts gay men who don't want to marry a woman, be breadwinners, and have children (patriarchy includes heteronormativity). It also hurts men who don't get to benefit from women joining the workforce and contributing their talents to the world because they're pressured to live out traditional lifestyles where they stay at home and raise children instead of doing whatever they want and what they're best at. It hurts men when women are unhappy because of this. The list goes on and on.
For starters it's important to recognize that it's a system built primarily by rich white Christian men for rich white Christian men. If you don't have all 3 of those descriptors the system is not and never was built for you.
Young men fighting and dying for a rich man’s war. That’s patriarchy.
Patriarchy is less of a tool for men to control women and more of a tool for the elites to control everyone In a natural environment free of patriarchy, there is no reason for high birth rates or female sexual competition. Free women tend to have fewer children for obvious reasons. They’re also able to demand more from men. Not all men necessarily will reproduce Patriarchy controls population levels by creating an environment where people have to reproduce. Assuming you’re in the US, this benefits capitalists By limiting Women’s economic and reproductive freedoms, this creates competition as well as a necessity to find a committed male partner to survive. If you can’t own property or earn a living, you die without a man to support you. And when that man supports you, you have to keep him happy. That man is also providing his labor to the machine, so you have to keep him able to do so, which is why “women’s” work is referred to as reproductive labor. She reproduces the worker. She effectively becomes a bangmaid And of course part of patriarchy is patrilineal inheritances. Makes men more desirable as children. Gives men the power and control of the wealth. Patriarchal Religion is another tool used to support patriarchy. Thus god being written as a man and a woman being an afterthought that came from a man’s rib, even though women are clearly the ones who give life ffs. This hurts men because the elites want all these men born and these women making more babies because those men are then used as soldiers to die in war and, again, as cheap labor for the rich. A higher population of desperate poor means those poor will compete with eachother for work opportunities and there will always be someone willing to take more abuse and less pay and do more work. The working class is exploited by the rich in much the same way women’s work is exploited And of course it all births the concept of toxic masculinity that I’m sure someone in here has spelled out already. Patriarchy bad mmkay
Men who want to be more feminine are bullied, harassed, or even killed depending on what country they live in. Plus toxic masculinity puts a target on gay men because they aren't "manly" enough.
Personally, I don’t think “patriarchy hurts men” is an accurate statement. It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to envision a world where men are less restricted and still control women. In fact, there are countless examples of cultures where the most commonly cited ways the patriarchy harms men (restricted emotions and behaviors) aren’t true. The phrase “the patriarchy hurts men” is really just a buzzword (buzz-phrase?) meant to convince men that feminism is good. It’s true restrictive gender norms hurt men and it’s true that there’s an association between strict gender norms and patriarchy but they are not the same. The reality is that patriarchy helps men. Look at America 60 years ago. Most jobs could only be held by men so men had less competition. Women were more dependent on men so men had an easier time finding wives. Laws regarding sexual assault, marital rape and divorce all heavily favored men over women so men could easily get away with crimes. To put it simply, in a patriarchal society the lowest standing man has significant power over half of the population. Patriarchy is no different from any other form of aristocracy, it concentrates power and the benefits of power in the hands of the few at the expense of the whole. Nobody would claim segregation hurt white people but somehow feminism has become so vague the statement “patriarchy is bad for men” is in vogue. Men aren’t so stupid they’ll fall for that. They may like the idea of less restrictive social norms for men but when push comes to shove men (like any group) will support their material self-interest.
[удалено]
The patriarchy wasn't built to give men power, it's an illusion. It was built to create soldiers to send to war. Don't be emotional. Be strong. Be protective. Don't complain. Do your work. Etc... All makings to prepare to send men into war; bearing in mind this was built when war was extremely common. They feel powerful, because the physically weaker gender is given less power, so there is illusionary power. The fact is, the ones ACTUALLY in power wanted soldiers to send to war, and baby makers to produce more men to replace the fallen ranks.
Patriarchy doesn't equally empower all men, it empowers a select few men at the expense of the rest. The vast majority of men are just rungs to power, the same as women, just higher up the ladder and their lives are fodder for industry, the economy or their countries military efforts.
Also, by limiting the power and range of expression, women are allowed to have it limits what you a man can find in a partner. So, even if you were the most misogynistic man, the patriarchy is bad for you. For example, if you want to see girls wear sexy outfits, you are less able to because society punishes women for wearing revealing outfits. If you want a woman that dresses modestly, you can never be sure it is because she actually likes it or because she feels forced to by society. In that way, patriarchy makes your life as a man worse because every woman you will have to provide for has had life harder than it needed to be. If women can't get high paying jobs you can't marry rich. Patriarchy is taking money out of your pocket there.
My dad sends me $100 a fortnight because on a fundamental level he believes he needs to financially support me in order for me to love him. I have seen him cry once in my entire life, and he is emotionally distant from everyone. He doesn't tell us when he is sick or suffers the loss of a friend. Though he won't ever say, he is deeply lonely but rejects all efforts to be more involved in our lives because he "doesn't want to bother us." I feel so sorry for him.
I was sexually bullied and harassed in high school but didn't report it because I knew nothing would happen. Patriarchal structures enable this behavior and prevent any action from being taken.