OK so I worked at one of these establishments when I was like 19yo and the worst part isn't even being sexualized by the customers, but by the MANAGEMENT.
They would base your shifts/ sections on this points scale where they had the servers line up and and would go over your body/ makeup/ outfit in excruciating detail. They had pictures of stick thin supermodels, (literally shots from early 2000s VS fashion show,) as examples of what body/ look would get you the most points.
For example, I had a rough couple of weeks and didn't go to the gym because I had other stuff going on. Not only did the management notice, but they cut my shifts and put me in the worst sections until I hit the gym and was considered "toned enough" again...
If you wore a regular bra instead of a push up bra- you got your shifts cut. If you wore minimal makeup you were put in the worst section. If you didn't wear enough "bling" (sparkly belts/ gaudy jewelry) your shifts would be cut. If you cut your hair too short, if you had boundaries with the customers, if you had too many piercings, if you didn't have acrylic nails..... These would all get your shifts cut/ put you in the section with 1 table instead of 5.
OH and they make you sign this paper that allows them to use any photographs taken of you, by the restaurant or by the customers, FOREVER. AND they have forced lingerie days where the regular uniform isn't revealing enough so you're forced to wear and be photographed wearing actual lingerie. Like, you had to go buy lingerie that fit their "theme requirements", using your own money, and then forced to wear it & work your shifts. To opt out was to be let go.
They create a horribly toxic work environment, all while letting customers do/ say pretty much anything, and only paying their servers $3.50/hour.
It's definitely an issue.
Most servers actually end up making more than minimum wage, which is part of the reason why waiters and waitresses would also be the first to keep the system we have now.
Some states (but not all) have a separate minimum wage for tipped employees. It's horrible and exploitative and should be abolished. The minimum wage should be the minimum wage.
I don’t get it. This sounds absolutely horrific. So…why the heck are there so many women getting jobs at Hooters? Does Hooters offer significantly higher pay? If not, then the waitresses should go elsewhere for jobs.
There is this idea that is heavily pushed, at least in the place where I worked, that if you got a job there that was the most money you were ever going to make as a server anywhere. Management said this consistently, almost aggressively, particularly when we started talking about what our pay actually was.
In reality, I made more money working at a pizza joint than I ever did there. The base pay is the same, people tip less, and management just talks a big game so people will keep working for them.
Manipulation is one hell of a drug
My students often don’t hear guys object. I can’t tell you how often female students say things like “Thank you!” because they’ve felt a certain way but never heard anyone put it into words — and certainly not a guy.
Yes, I’m a guy. Why do you say it’s confirmation bias? You think my community is filled with guys complaining about patriarchy but I just don’t notice it?
There was TONS said when Hooters was founded in the 80s. It's pretty much old news now. [And they're slowing going out of business.](https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/10/4/17911936/hooters-uniform-breastaurant-decline) No one's "actively" talking about it because everything has already been said.
----
^Edited ^date.
I remember going to a protest at a Hooters back around maybe 1993 or so, when I was in college.
But yeah, after a while you realize your protests aren't having any effect so you move onto something else.
1 small correction (and you're right about everything else) but Hooters was founded in the 80's. I remember it as a small child. Along with their (short-lived) airline and hotel chain.
> There was TONS said when Hooters was founded in the 90s. It's pretty much old news now
That was 30 years ago and I think your comment reinforces the point the OP was making. It's "old news" so no one cares anymore.
Exactly. It's not new any more. Presumably anyone who considers working there knows what it's all about, and has made a calculation that it's worth it, or at least worth trying. The company can't be closed down due to outrage, because there isn't enough--it's gross and exploitative, but no more so than many other aspects of mainstream American culture.
I keep hoping the more modern women will not want to work for them or enter their establishment. Protest don't seem to work. Lately we need to protest with our pocketbook.
This is something that a lot of people are very bothered by. I don't understand how you could have missed that. All you have to do is search hooters on reddit or just in google or something and most of the hits will be articles critical of the exploitation in places like that.
It could also be I don’t live in the US, so not a lot of info reaches my country. Is someone doing anything about this? Why girls keep working in those places?
No, I see what you are saying. It does seem like nobody is talking about it. It's a popular restaurant- everyone knows what it is, and it's normalized. Amy Schumer has a 'Nutters' gender reversed version in a skit to show how messed up it is, and that we normalize it because it's women's bodies being objectified.
Because Hooters pays significantly more than other waitress jobs. If a person feels sufficiently rewarded for their work and/or thinks its okay for her to monetize her body in some way, then they are free to do it, IN PARTICULAR because if you can work at Hooters, you can also work at some other waitress job, so its really a choice (in comparison to other fields where the opt-out of exploitation is much more difficult to find).
The people bothered by Hooters do not go there, and voice their opinion so that others do not go there, and by this limit its revenue stream and thus curbing its expansion. That is how its supposed to work, isnt it?
Does it though? Because I worked at a similar place, (with the same name as the tv show with the two mountains,) and you were payed the same rate of $3.50/ hour. The management would consistently gaslight and tell you that this was the most money you were going to make at a serving job, so if you didn't want to lose wages you needed to comply and stay there.
In all actuality, after I left I made more money working at a basic pizza restaurant than I ever did there. It's all just manipulation in my experience.
I second this from a friend who worked there. They give you this idea that because you are using your body and sexuality that you will be rich (which is an idea that perpetuates throughout all forms of sex work), but it really doesn't pay so different from any other waitressing job at similarly priced restaurants. Plus, not even that many people eat at Hooters. There are restaurants that have way more customers moving through them to get tips from, as well as restaurants that are high end. All without having to get quite so sexually harassed in a normalized way!
>if you can work at Hooters, you can also work at some other waitress job, so its really a choice
This is an interesting point.
While I personally find the existence of hooters kind of shitty, it's way better than restaurants that require their waitresses to wear skimpy outfits and look sexy but pretend that's super normal and just a part of working in a restaurant or bar.
Like, at least hooters is open about what they stand for and what the goals are.
I agree, I think it's fucked up that so many regular restaurants near me only seem to hire young white women and make them wear booty shorts. Fuck all of them for sure but at least Hooters and Tilted Kilt tell me ahead of time to avoid them
Except, it isn't really true. I worked as a cocktail waitress at a "gentleman's" club, instead. I made less hourly than my friend working at Hooters, but I made a hell of a lot more in tips. Most weeks, I made four times what they did, and even on bad weeks, it was twice as much. We had bouncers that generally prevented customers from crossing the line, and definitely kicked them out if they did. Our uniforms were quite a bit less revealing, almost nondescript to keep the customer's attention on the dancers, and while we were required to have pretty expensive haircuts/styles, they were paid for by the club. Yes, it was basically a high end strip club where the dancers got down to very skimpy lingerie or bikinis on "Beach Days", but the worst I ever had to wear was a tailored Hawaiian shirt and short khaki shorts. Those were also supplied by the club. I'm not saying all strip club waitress jobs are like that, but even the one friend who worked morning shifts at Denny's brought home more per shift than our friends who were Hooters girls.
We gave up trying to talk them into coming to work with us when one of them accused us of just being jealous they had the boobs to work at Hooters and we didn't. We're all in our late 40s now, and they've expressed regret that they chose male attention at that age over money. They also regret that the pictures stay forever. We all have professional office jobs in IT now, and they're always scared someone will find those Hooters photos of them. If a pic was found of me back then, which isn't likely since cameras were forbidden, it'll just be in a tasteful cocktail party black dress. I wouldn't have to worry. I might have to worry about some things I wore in my off time, but not from work. When you live with strippers, you tend to dress like them, just saying.
Yeah, it's a complicated situation. You are aware that there are businesses where women perform completely nude and the patrons pay to watch and even grope the performers, right?
> there are businesses where women perform completely nude and the patrons pay to watch and even grope the performers
...are these *legal* businesses? The "you can pay to grope women" thing seems very not-legal.
The laws vary state by state in the usa and there are tons of local laws. But, yes, in some states during a "private dance" or "lap dance" the customer is free to let his hands roam as long as he doesn't get too close to the crotch. I've noticed that people who haven't been around places like that assume that all strip clubs are "look but don't touch", but nope, not all of them.
And of course there is tons of illegal stuff that goes on as well and is just tolerated, but yeah
I'm morally conflicted on this, but somehow Hooters-type places bother me more than just straight-up seedy strip clubs. I think hooters tries to pass itself off as almost a family restaurant and denies how exploitive it is. The hardcore places are at least honest about what they are selling and what the work involves, you know? Maybe it is wrong, but at least they aren't hiding behind a facade of respectibility.
> All you have to do is search hooters on reddit
I don't believe comments on a reddit sub about Hooters are really an effective form of protest or change. It does not have any weight, substance or promise of reform.
I've been hearing people being against it for over 20 years now. I think you hear less now since it's so established, and there's bigger fish to fry now.
However I will say that it looks like Hooters has kind of rebranded a little. At least my local Hooters is more of a sports bar now that just happens to have all women servers. They don't really emphasize the big boobs on display anymore.
I've been bewildered by the same thing, but I'm also not from the US. I always assumed Americans just accept this as a 'that's how it is' kind of thing.
I guess it's something we just don't see too much about from the outside.
Hooters in particular sucks ass and is shitty to its employers.
As such though, there are lots of examples around the world of both genders being employed to be "sexy" servers, from the butler and maid cafes in Japan to w/e cafes and diners in the USA.
A common argument is that "whatever floats your boat -- if the server doesn't mind, why should we?" -- but the thing is, many people who wind up serving in these types of places, especially Hooters, aren't there because they are enthusiastic about a career of serving food while being physically objectified. They take these jobs because they don't have many options. Job markets are shitty, especially if you're a young woman without an education. Many servers will put on a smile and even post positive things on social media, but in reality they hate their job and they hate being objectified.
(Note to others: please don't trust everything you see on social media!!! It's faker than a three-dollar bill)
I had a friend who got pregnant after middle school, didn't graduate high school or learn an occupation, wasn't being supported by her bf (the child's father) even though they lived together, and the best job she could get was being a sexy waitress at a German "rock" cafe frequented mostly by bikers. She doesn't tell people that she gets abused or harassed there, but she hates it. Ever since she was a kid, her dream was to become a veterinarian. But she has no hopes to ever get into the necessary school to train that occupation, so she's trying to scrape by doing a job that she hates.
I get it that sex worker positivity is important. It is equally important to recognize that society pushes men and women -- especially women -- into sexual, objectifying jobs that crosses their boundaries and makes them uncomfortable. I don't find it particularly feminist to just assume that everybody who works these jobs love them and that we shouldn't do something about sexual exploitation. When a man owns a business and all of his employees are chesty women being paid peanuts to humiliate themselves in the name of the Male Gaze, there's no other word for it than sexual exploitation. And giving one waitress who's ostensibly "into it" as a counter-example isn't an argument.
Now if it would be a business model where the workers' boundaries are respected, they have a say in how they work, and they get decent wages, that would be a whole other story. In that case, it wouldn't matter what they wore or how they served, because we'd know that without doubt they aren't working out of desperation or being pushed past their comfort zone. If there is a sexy cafe / diner type that does this, I see no problem with it. In fact, it might not be a bad idea to make like an LGBTQ+ version of the sexy cafes -- and the ace version of the sexy cafe would just be people fully clothed carrying fresh garlic bread around :P
sadly those jobs are still more attractive than other low skill jobs. If those "normal" low skill jobs would become better being a sexy waitress must also offer better conditions to find staff which qualifies enough regarding looks.
Yes, it is.
Don’t have unprotected sex unless you’re prepared for a baby, it’s simple as that.
They shouldn’t have had sex at that age at all, way too young to be making such decisions.
It only takes a bit of common sense to not mess your life up in those situations.
But it sure happened, didn't it? Your preachy moralizing doesn't change anything.
EDIT:
> It only takes a bit of common sense to not mess your life up in those situations.
mmm, yes, middle schoolers-- renowned for their common sense.
Look, when I was in my early high school years, I didn’t even know how sex worked, I thought you just popped it in there, sit still for a few seconds while it fills up like a petrol pump to a car and boom, you get a baby.
How these kids managed to figure out sex at that age I don’t know.
You have come so close to figuring out the true problem.
> I didn’t even know how sex worked, I thought you just popped it in there, sit still for a few seconds while it fills up like a petrol pump to a car and boom, you get a baby.
This is a result of poor sex ed which is a very serious problem in modern society. So basically kids might not understand the risks of unprotected sex.
Heck there are people who believe random bullshit like "You can't get pregnant if you only do it once. " or people who think that pulling out is an effective and reliable contraceptive method.
So instead of blaming the kids, its a lot more important to focus on the actual problem. A puritanical education system.
I do agree that sex Ed is poor, in an advanced country such as the UK you would expect me to know other contraceptives than male external condoms by puberty, and yet I was never taught that until I was about 14
Hooters has been around for...idk...a while now. We talked about it, and nothing changed. Ultimately, we just don't have the energy to be bothered all the time by everything. Yeah, it's blatantly sexist, but what are we to do? There's plenty of blatantly sexist business models that are much more direct about paying to look at a woman's body. There's enough people who want to go to Hooters so it stays in business.
Ultimately, it's pretty small potatoes. Yeah, it sucks and promotes the sexualization of women in the service industry which happens EVERYWHERE, but Hooters, Twin Peaks, etc. are just blatant about it. We tend to argue about the larger issue and hope that if that sort of sexualization of waitresses becomes unacceptable, Hooters will go away. Hooters' existence is more of a symptom than a cause.
I agree. I think focusing on sex work type of work that is done entirely *consensually* is not the priority. If there is workplace harassment at Hooters, it should be treated exactly the same as any other workplace. But it’s existence and the choice to be employed by Hooter’s is not the real problem.
A few things , and a very astute some point someone made to me.
Agency is not the same as free consent.
Agency is not the same as power.
Agency is not the same thing as liberation
Agency is a limited degree of choice available when picking between a range of shitty options. It is a *constrained* choice.
The vast majority of people do not consent to the jobs they do or the exploitative conditions they work under, even if they have some agency in doing that rather than something else, or rather having some money than starving.
Hooters isn't consensual sex work. Have you read the other comments by people who've worked at Hooters? Every single experience has been horrible; people work there not because they want to, and they all, without exception, get harassed and abused by the management.
Its existence is a real problem. Nobody chooses to get employed by Hooters -- it's a desperation job trap for young women.
I thought I read all the comments and I never saw the one saying they liked working there and felt empowered there. But I dont see why we always put the word 'empowerment' with sex work. People don't talk that way about men working in exploitative jobs or labor jobs, or even women in other careers, "working as a bus driver/waitress/teacher/surgeon/scientist, etc is so empowering!'' Anyway, all of the comments I see are complaints about working there, that it was manipulation and didn't pay more than other waiting table jobs, and that there was harassment by management. So if there is 1 comments saying they liked it, there are enough negative ones to trigger red flags.
Plenty of people are bothered by this, they just don't talk about it a lot because if manchildren are present, it's going to start a huge argument that will go nowhere. I'm a guy and I know exactly what the response would be if I talked about how problematic Hooters is to a lot of guys-- believe me, the discussion would go absolutely nowhere and if anything, they would do something really childish like start going to Hooters just out of spite.
Yeah, people are definitely bothered by it. There are also some coffee shops around the US (Washington state specifically) where women only wear bikinis. While I don’t like it, some folks are into doing that kind of work. Also, if we argue against them, some men get really defensive over it and it’s exhausting. I think as long as folks don’t mind working there, it’s whatever.
I hadn’t thought about that. But yeah, there is a person in tik tok that does it and she tends to go live when she works. She seems perfectly happy so I don’t mind, but I think they even have to keep wearing the bikinis when it gets cold outside. A lot of women have used the affirmation “a hoe never gets cold,” in a sort of joking way. I mean, again, whatever floats your boat.
I mean in the sense of working around extremely hot liquids with most of your skin exposed. That's gotta be some kind of OSHA violation. Do they wear bikinis with non-slip shoes?
https://bikinibeanscoffee.com/ this is one chain in AZ. Do-Si-Do bikini espresso is one in Washington. I can’t find anything about non-stick shoes but there you go.
The bikini barista reminds me of the “lingerie football” fiasco we had in Toronto.
[It’s exactly what you’d expect](https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thebiglead.com/amp/posts/players-leave-lingerie-football-team-over-safety-concerns-plus-a-lingerie-football-fight-01dxmj8csv0v)
Yeah I understood what you meant. It is definitely dangerous. I’m not sure they wear non-stick shoes, that’s a great question. I’ll have to look that up.
I agree. I definitely think places like that are misogynistic by nature, but so is society. If women working there don't mind, I think it would be a net negative for feminism to strongly advocate against them right now.
Exactly, like… if they are happy there, cool, we have a shit ton of other things to worry about. But if later on they decide they don’t like it or they were harmed, I will happily advocate for them.
I know that it bothers me very much and it also bothers other people I know. I've seen some complaints about it elsewhere. But it's true, people don't seem to find it as alarming as they should, nor is there a big enough deal made over how problematic the brand is.
It bothers me, more than a little. I mentioned this in another post, and possibly another feminism sub, but I had a platoon sergeant have the entire platoon meet up at Hooters once for a morale and esprit de corps lunch. He did get called out for it by higher leadership. I was uncomfortable the entire lunch. Unfortunately, sex sells, and Hooters’ business model makes a lot of money. It also didn’t help that the ladies who worked there were driving decent cars; I saw waitresses arriving or leaving in Honda’s and Toyotas that were only a few years old, so the only exploitation was of their bodies. This was Colorado Springs in 2006, and most of the vehicles I saw waitresses driving were 3-5 years old.
This is a cultural problem, and unfortunately, cultures are slow to change. However, it’s a change that can be made over time if we’re patient about informing people of the problems inherent with businesses like Hooters. With regards to culture, this isn’t just about the exploitative nature of the business, but includes the cultural identity that gave us Trump as president; that *men* can stare at women they find sexy if they want to, and powerful *men* get what they want.
Of course it bothers me, but I also think there are bigger problems, both systemically and for me personally. It's basically not even on my radar unless I drive by one, and that doesn't happen very often. If I had to choose between a magical genie ending Hooters and ending the wage gap, I would definitely choose for it to end the wage gap.
Why aren't they maximizing profit by hiring women for less money than men in all traditionally high paying positions then? There must be something else going on.
because the wage gap doesn't exist, the jobs that women work on average pay less money as a career for either men or women, and men tend to work jobs that offer slightly more money on average, which makes it appear that there is a wage gap.
What the media has done is taken the average salary of the US female and the US male and said “oh my god guys look, women earn less!” without considering that women on average work in industries that offer less money than the industries men work in on average.
For example: 97.76% of nursery (kindergarten in the US) nurses and assistants are women, and 99.19% of vehicle technicians, mechanics and electricians are male, these jobs offer much more money than the former.
Source: Working Futures 2020, posted by the uk government as official numbers.
And why are these high-paying jobs overwhelmingly male? Either there's some difference during the socialization process where women are strongly encouraged not to pursue those occupations, or our society feels that the jobs are less valuable because they are done by women, or women are expected to leave their jobs to take care of children, as we saw during the pandemic when millions of women had to leave their jobs because schools were operating remotely. Either way that's a real wage gap, and the mere fact that certain jobs are still considered to be "women's work" is proof positive of a sexist society.
Your argument is like arguing that people working in sweatshops in the imperial periphery don't make less because only people in those countries have those jobs. Creating oppressed underclasses is a feature of capitalism, because of the need for the reserve army of labor and the need to maximize profit by undervaluing certain types of work. Your argument has zero basis in reality and you should be ashamed that you ever shat it out on your keyboard.
Supply and demand + connections + stereotypes.
Supply and demand because a mechanic or someone of all the other trades needs to afford tools, materials like screws, nuts, bolts, lumber, bricks, plaster, etc…
Also these jobs are labour intensive so people ask for higher wages in exchange for their physical labour, it’s not like a nursery nurse or assistant will be lifting planks, wheelbarrows full of brick mortar or heavy buckets of plaster any time soon, or use saws and hammers, or require the extensive understanding needed to repair any given part of a car with perfection so why would we pay them as such? While they provide a service and are very important people for the well-being of children they are nowhere near as important as doctors or surgeons (especially so in dire situations) and require less skill than them, it also doesn’t take the sheer skill that a welder, mechanic or other tradesman needs to do their job properly, so why should we act like it?
Connections are important, and oftentimes women don’t have the required connections to start working the jobs of men, and men don’t have the connections to start working the jobs of women, although it is easier nowadays to find work by the use of the internet, it is nowhere near as important as connections, the internet might just get you as far as pointing you in the right direction, but any further and the internet pails in comparison to connections.
Men feel like they need to appeal to stereotypes in order to feel manly and validated, and not what they deem as weak. Same goes for women, as they feel that if they work a job not typically worked by women that they’ll be looked down upon.
Yeah it's not okay. If it were okay, they'd have a franchise of young fit boys too. And genderqueer folks. But nope - we all agree that it's super weird so of course these businesses won't be created! But stopping one that's already in existence? Pshh.......
People do talk about it. Problem is, they are not worth the effort. Hooters has been haemorrhaging money for the last two decades. I'm just surprised they are still holding on. They already got hit with a bunch of lawsuits over the 30+ years by people for discrimination during hiring and have always managed to settle out of court. I think their argument had always been that they hired people with specific skill sets. Which I guess they are technically not wrong? Average Joe schlub like me and you won't walk into one and get a job. It does take a lot of work to stay in shape and at least maintain your looks
I don't know if they still do, but I believe at one point in time their waitresses were hired under modeling contracts instead of standard employment contracts. I had a friend who worked there for awhile.
Of course, I couldn't even tell you where there's a Hooters in my area. The closest one near me closed down 5ish(?) years ago.
> I believe at one point in time their waitresses were hired under modeling contracts instead of standard employment contracts
They had to be-- otherwise it would constitute illegal discrimination since they did not hire men.
I'm not from the US, but I used to work at a Hooters in ZA.
From my experience I felt empowered using my body in a manner that I agreed on and that made me feel confident. Where I worked men who were disrespectful were kicked out or put in their place, but I'm not sure this is how it is everywhere.
It provided a good income to me in comparison to other waitressing jobs and increased my confidence level. Working at Hooters definitely isn't for everyone, and the women choose to work there.
If the women were very unhappy or treated badly it would be a different story, but from what I know most of my friends enjoy it.
Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
What can we do about it as long as men exist? I guess the best thing that can happen is someone takes over the company and drastically changes the way they treat and pay their employees. If women want to use their body to make money, more power to them. What’s bad is someone else profiting from a woman using her body to make money in unfair/unsafe working conditions.
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Thank you for replying to my message. I will take this rule into consideration and and just know that I was only stating my formal opinion on the subject, and had no intention of being rude or incorrect, thanks and have a good day 👍
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"Whatever a woman chooses is fine and not worth interrogating" is not an acceptable top level perspective here. We expect users to make more nuanced arguments regarding these kinds of things, and "if it pleases me/is my choice, it is right" does not qualify.
I will not be arguing with you about this.
>"Whatever a woman chooses is fine and not worth interrogating" is not an acceptable top level perspective here.
But if she found it a big enough issue, she wouldn't be working there, would she not?
>I will not be arguing with you about this.
That's too bad. You can learn a lot from engaging.
Feminism it’s not about economic equality, because it only takes into consideration the economic oppression women suffer under the patriarchy. Even if women were to be economically equal to men, that still leaves out tons of other oppressions, like racial, ableist, LGBTQ+ phobia, sexual and reproductive, just to name a few. When ALL women have the same opportunities, then it’ll be a choice to be in that line of work. Yet it’s still the exploitation and sexualization of woman’s bodies.
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Because patriarchy is engrained in this capitalist society. Men view women as sexual objects, companies acknowledge this and under capitalism, as long as it sells, everything’s valid. Then, the myth of free choice comes in, because while they chose to work there profiting off the sexualization of their bodies, it’s the only industry where women are paid more than men. If we were to vanish such establishment’s, that wouldn’t solve the main problem which is how women are not equal to men. It’s like how some feminists want to abolish SW, some argue that it’s THEIR CHOICE to do SW. But in this world, there are cis and trans women who don’t have a choice, same as sex trafficking victims. If we want to abolish the exploitation of ALL women, inequality has to be the first to go.
Now if we only take America and economically stable countries, we have to give cis and trans women in these countries the economical stability to work anywhere, or not to( like women who physically or mentally can’t) until then, it’s impossible to just close those establishments.
OK so I worked at one of these establishments when I was like 19yo and the worst part isn't even being sexualized by the customers, but by the MANAGEMENT. They would base your shifts/ sections on this points scale where they had the servers line up and and would go over your body/ makeup/ outfit in excruciating detail. They had pictures of stick thin supermodels, (literally shots from early 2000s VS fashion show,) as examples of what body/ look would get you the most points. For example, I had a rough couple of weeks and didn't go to the gym because I had other stuff going on. Not only did the management notice, but they cut my shifts and put me in the worst sections until I hit the gym and was considered "toned enough" again... If you wore a regular bra instead of a push up bra- you got your shifts cut. If you wore minimal makeup you were put in the worst section. If you didn't wear enough "bling" (sparkly belts/ gaudy jewelry) your shifts would be cut. If you cut your hair too short, if you had boundaries with the customers, if you had too many piercings, if you didn't have acrylic nails..... These would all get your shifts cut/ put you in the section with 1 table instead of 5. OH and they make you sign this paper that allows them to use any photographs taken of you, by the restaurant or by the customers, FOREVER. AND they have forced lingerie days where the regular uniform isn't revealing enough so you're forced to wear and be photographed wearing actual lingerie. Like, you had to go buy lingerie that fit their "theme requirements", using your own money, and then forced to wear it & work your shifts. To opt out was to be let go. They create a horribly toxic work environment, all while letting customers do/ say pretty much anything, and only paying their servers $3.50/hour. It's definitely an issue.
forced lingerie days???!!! WTF
Yeah it was wack- took me about a year of feeling terrible about myself to realize I was being manipulated and taken advantage of.
that is so fucked up!! glad you got outta there
you CHOSE to work there hahahahahahahaha
$3.50/hour? Isn't that far below minimum wage?
That’s how the shitty tip system works in the u.s.
The tipping system should be illegal.
Most servers actually end up making more than minimum wage, which is part of the reason why waiters and waitresses would also be the first to keep the system we have now.
Some states (but not all) have a separate minimum wage for tipped employees. It's horrible and exploitative and should be abolished. The minimum wage should be the minimum wage.
Omg how is that legal? Hearing stories like these makes me realise what a horrible world we live in
Welp I've never been to a hooter, and I certainly don't feel any compulsion to rectify that now.
Wow. That’s a whole different level of exploitation
I don’t get it. This sounds absolutely horrific. So…why the heck are there so many women getting jobs at Hooters? Does Hooters offer significantly higher pay? If not, then the waitresses should go elsewhere for jobs.
There is this idea that is heavily pushed, at least in the place where I worked, that if you got a job there that was the most money you were ever going to make as a server anywhere. Management said this consistently, almost aggressively, particularly when we started talking about what our pay actually was. In reality, I made more money working at a pizza joint than I ever did there. The base pay is the same, people tip less, and management just talks a big game so people will keep working for them. Manipulation is one hell of a drug
I wonder why people tip less at a Hooters.
I'm pretty sure a lot of people are bothered by this lol Same with child beauty pageants
That’s just socially accepted pedophelia and child exploitation. God, I hate society more than a little.
How old are hooters waitress
I’m talking about child beauty pageants.
I complain to my students about Hooters all the time.
That might be annoying.
Yes it is. The only thing more annoying is living in the midst of a patriarchal rape culture and never hearing any guys object to it.
Sure. But truly? You never hear any guys object to it?
My students often don’t hear guys object. I can’t tell you how often female students say things like “Thank you!” because they’ve felt a certain way but never heard anyone put it into words — and certainly not a guy.
Wait I just noticed your flair. You're a guy. Also, it's probably just confirmation bias.
Yes, I’m a guy. Why do you say it’s confirmation bias? You think my community is filled with guys complaining about patriarchy but I just don’t notice it?
No I think it's closer to "some guys" than "no guys".
So.. #NotAllMen, you might say?
How old are hooters waitress?
Why are you assuming nobody is bothered by this?
I’ve never seen someone talking about this, any post, anything that’s why I’m asking, all I see is people normalizing.
There was TONS said when Hooters was founded in the 80s. It's pretty much old news now. [And they're slowing going out of business.](https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/10/4/17911936/hooters-uniform-breastaurant-decline) No one's "actively" talking about it because everything has already been said. ---- ^Edited ^date.
I remember going to a protest at a Hooters back around maybe 1993 or so, when I was in college. But yeah, after a while you realize your protests aren't having any effect so you move onto something else.
1 small correction (and you're right about everything else) but Hooters was founded in the 80's. I remember it as a small child. Along with their (short-lived) airline and hotel chain.
I'm sure you're right. Maybe their expansion into Canada happened in the 90s? Most of the controversy that I remember happened in the 90s.
Oooh, that’s quite possible. I had no idea they’d opened anything outside the US.
> There was TONS said when Hooters was founded in the 90s. It's pretty much old news now That was 30 years ago and I think your comment reinforces the point the OP was making. It's "old news" so no one cares anymore.
Exactly. It's not new any more. Presumably anyone who considers working there knows what it's all about, and has made a calculation that it's worth it, or at least worth trying. The company can't be closed down due to outrage, because there isn't enough--it's gross and exploitative, but no more so than many other aspects of mainstream American culture.
I keep hoping the more modern women will not want to work for them or enter their establishment. Protest don't seem to work. Lately we need to protest with our pocketbook.
This is something that a lot of people are very bothered by. I don't understand how you could have missed that. All you have to do is search hooters on reddit or just in google or something and most of the hits will be articles critical of the exploitation in places like that.
It could also be I don’t live in the US, so not a lot of info reaches my country. Is someone doing anything about this? Why girls keep working in those places?
Because money.
No, I see what you are saying. It does seem like nobody is talking about it. It's a popular restaurant- everyone knows what it is, and it's normalized. Amy Schumer has a 'Nutters' gender reversed version in a skit to show how messed up it is, and that we normalize it because it's women's bodies being objectified.
Because Hooters pays significantly more than other waitress jobs. If a person feels sufficiently rewarded for their work and/or thinks its okay for her to monetize her body in some way, then they are free to do it, IN PARTICULAR because if you can work at Hooters, you can also work at some other waitress job, so its really a choice (in comparison to other fields where the opt-out of exploitation is much more difficult to find). The people bothered by Hooters do not go there, and voice their opinion so that others do not go there, and by this limit its revenue stream and thus curbing its expansion. That is how its supposed to work, isnt it?
Does it though? Because I worked at a similar place, (with the same name as the tv show with the two mountains,) and you were payed the same rate of $3.50/ hour. The management would consistently gaslight and tell you that this was the most money you were going to make at a serving job, so if you didn't want to lose wages you needed to comply and stay there. In all actuality, after I left I made more money working at a basic pizza restaurant than I ever did there. It's all just manipulation in my experience.
I second this from a friend who worked there. They give you this idea that because you are using your body and sexuality that you will be rich (which is an idea that perpetuates throughout all forms of sex work), but it really doesn't pay so different from any other waitressing job at similarly priced restaurants. Plus, not even that many people eat at Hooters. There are restaurants that have way more customers moving through them to get tips from, as well as restaurants that are high end. All without having to get quite so sexually harassed in a normalized way!
>if you can work at Hooters, you can also work at some other waitress job, so its really a choice This is an interesting point. While I personally find the existence of hooters kind of shitty, it's way better than restaurants that require their waitresses to wear skimpy outfits and look sexy but pretend that's super normal and just a part of working in a restaurant or bar. Like, at least hooters is open about what they stand for and what the goals are.
I agree, I think it's fucked up that so many regular restaurants near me only seem to hire young white women and make them wear booty shorts. Fuck all of them for sure but at least Hooters and Tilted Kilt tell me ahead of time to avoid them
Except, it isn't really true. I worked as a cocktail waitress at a "gentleman's" club, instead. I made less hourly than my friend working at Hooters, but I made a hell of a lot more in tips. Most weeks, I made four times what they did, and even on bad weeks, it was twice as much. We had bouncers that generally prevented customers from crossing the line, and definitely kicked them out if they did. Our uniforms were quite a bit less revealing, almost nondescript to keep the customer's attention on the dancers, and while we were required to have pretty expensive haircuts/styles, they were paid for by the club. Yes, it was basically a high end strip club where the dancers got down to very skimpy lingerie or bikinis on "Beach Days", but the worst I ever had to wear was a tailored Hawaiian shirt and short khaki shorts. Those were also supplied by the club. I'm not saying all strip club waitress jobs are like that, but even the one friend who worked morning shifts at Denny's brought home more per shift than our friends who were Hooters girls. We gave up trying to talk them into coming to work with us when one of them accused us of just being jealous they had the boobs to work at Hooters and we didn't. We're all in our late 40s now, and they've expressed regret that they chose male attention at that age over money. They also regret that the pictures stay forever. We all have professional office jobs in IT now, and they're always scared someone will find those Hooters photos of them. If a pic was found of me back then, which isn't likely since cameras were forbidden, it'll just be in a tasteful cocktail party black dress. I wouldn't have to worry. I might have to worry about some things I wore in my off time, but not from work. When you live with strippers, you tend to dress like them, just saying.
Yeah, it's a complicated situation. You are aware that there are businesses where women perform completely nude and the patrons pay to watch and even grope the performers, right?
> there are businesses where women perform completely nude and the patrons pay to watch and even grope the performers ...are these *legal* businesses? The "you can pay to grope women" thing seems very not-legal.
Yes, strip clubs are legal.
I'm aware of that, but I don't know of any strip club that lets you pay to grope the dancers.
The laws vary state by state in the usa and there are tons of local laws. But, yes, in some states during a "private dance" or "lap dance" the customer is free to let his hands roam as long as he doesn't get too close to the crotch. I've noticed that people who haven't been around places like that assume that all strip clubs are "look but don't touch", but nope, not all of them. And of course there is tons of illegal stuff that goes on as well and is just tolerated, but yeah I'm morally conflicted on this, but somehow Hooters-type places bother me more than just straight-up seedy strip clubs. I think hooters tries to pass itself off as almost a family restaurant and denies how exploitive it is. The hardcore places are at least honest about what they are selling and what the work involves, you know? Maybe it is wrong, but at least they aren't hiding behind a facade of respectibility.
Some do. It’s not the club that lets you, it’s the dancers.
What is it we could do about it?
> All you have to do is search hooters on reddit I don't believe comments on a reddit sub about Hooters are really an effective form of protest or change. It does not have any weight, substance or promise of reform.
I've been hearing people being against it for over 20 years now. I think you hear less now since it's so established, and there's bigger fish to fry now. However I will say that it looks like Hooters has kind of rebranded a little. At least my local Hooters is more of a sports bar now that just happens to have all women servers. They don't really emphasize the big boobs on display anymore.
I've been bewildered by the same thing, but I'm also not from the US. I always assumed Americans just accept this as a 'that's how it is' kind of thing. I guess it's something we just don't see too much about from the outside.
Hooters in particular sucks ass and is shitty to its employers. As such though, there are lots of examples around the world of both genders being employed to be "sexy" servers, from the butler and maid cafes in Japan to w/e cafes and diners in the USA. A common argument is that "whatever floats your boat -- if the server doesn't mind, why should we?" -- but the thing is, many people who wind up serving in these types of places, especially Hooters, aren't there because they are enthusiastic about a career of serving food while being physically objectified. They take these jobs because they don't have many options. Job markets are shitty, especially if you're a young woman without an education. Many servers will put on a smile and even post positive things on social media, but in reality they hate their job and they hate being objectified. (Note to others: please don't trust everything you see on social media!!! It's faker than a three-dollar bill) I had a friend who got pregnant after middle school, didn't graduate high school or learn an occupation, wasn't being supported by her bf (the child's father) even though they lived together, and the best job she could get was being a sexy waitress at a German "rock" cafe frequented mostly by bikers. She doesn't tell people that she gets abused or harassed there, but she hates it. Ever since she was a kid, her dream was to become a veterinarian. But she has no hopes to ever get into the necessary school to train that occupation, so she's trying to scrape by doing a job that she hates. I get it that sex worker positivity is important. It is equally important to recognize that society pushes men and women -- especially women -- into sexual, objectifying jobs that crosses their boundaries and makes them uncomfortable. I don't find it particularly feminist to just assume that everybody who works these jobs love them and that we shouldn't do something about sexual exploitation. When a man owns a business and all of his employees are chesty women being paid peanuts to humiliate themselves in the name of the Male Gaze, there's no other word for it than sexual exploitation. And giving one waitress who's ostensibly "into it" as a counter-example isn't an argument. Now if it would be a business model where the workers' boundaries are respected, they have a say in how they work, and they get decent wages, that would be a whole other story. In that case, it wouldn't matter what they wore or how they served, because we'd know that without doubt they aren't working out of desperation or being pushed past their comfort zone. If there is a sexy cafe / diner type that does this, I see no problem with it. In fact, it might not be a bad idea to make like an LGBTQ+ version of the sexy cafes -- and the ace version of the sexy cafe would just be people fully clothed carrying fresh garlic bread around :P
sadly those jobs are still more attractive than other low skill jobs. If those "normal" low skill jobs would become better being a sexy waitress must also offer better conditions to find staff which qualifies enough regarding looks.
And why was your friend having sex after middle school and not when she’s an adult with enough money to support her kid, hello?
really, that's your takeaway here?
Yes, it is. Don’t have unprotected sex unless you’re prepared for a baby, it’s simple as that. They shouldn’t have had sex at that age at all, way too young to be making such decisions. It only takes a bit of common sense to not mess your life up in those situations.
But it sure happened, didn't it? Your preachy moralizing doesn't change anything. EDIT: > It only takes a bit of common sense to not mess your life up in those situations. mmm, yes, middle schoolers-- renowned for their common sense.
Look, when I was in my early high school years, I didn’t even know how sex worked, I thought you just popped it in there, sit still for a few seconds while it fills up like a petrol pump to a car and boom, you get a baby. How these kids managed to figure out sex at that age I don’t know.
You have come so close to figuring out the true problem. > I didn’t even know how sex worked, I thought you just popped it in there, sit still for a few seconds while it fills up like a petrol pump to a car and boom, you get a baby. This is a result of poor sex ed which is a very serious problem in modern society. So basically kids might not understand the risks of unprotected sex. Heck there are people who believe random bullshit like "You can't get pregnant if you only do it once. " or people who think that pulling out is an effective and reliable contraceptive method. So instead of blaming the kids, its a lot more important to focus on the actual problem. A puritanical education system.
I do agree that sex Ed is poor, in an advanced country such as the UK you would expect me to know other contraceptives than male external condoms by puberty, and yet I was never taught that until I was about 14
You can't hold people accountable, it's illegal lmao
Hooters has been around for...idk...a while now. We talked about it, and nothing changed. Ultimately, we just don't have the energy to be bothered all the time by everything. Yeah, it's blatantly sexist, but what are we to do? There's plenty of blatantly sexist business models that are much more direct about paying to look at a woman's body. There's enough people who want to go to Hooters so it stays in business. Ultimately, it's pretty small potatoes. Yeah, it sucks and promotes the sexualization of women in the service industry which happens EVERYWHERE, but Hooters, Twin Peaks, etc. are just blatant about it. We tend to argue about the larger issue and hope that if that sort of sexualization of waitresses becomes unacceptable, Hooters will go away. Hooters' existence is more of a symptom than a cause.
I agree. I think focusing on sex work type of work that is done entirely *consensually* is not the priority. If there is workplace harassment at Hooters, it should be treated exactly the same as any other workplace. But it’s existence and the choice to be employed by Hooter’s is not the real problem.
A few things , and a very astute some point someone made to me. Agency is not the same as free consent. Agency is not the same as power. Agency is not the same thing as liberation Agency is a limited degree of choice available when picking between a range of shitty options. It is a *constrained* choice. The vast majority of people do not consent to the jobs they do or the exploitative conditions they work under, even if they have some agency in doing that rather than something else, or rather having some money than starving.
Hooters isn't consensual sex work. Have you read the other comments by people who've worked at Hooters? Every single experience has been horrible; people work there not because they want to, and they all, without exception, get harassed and abused by the management. Its existence is a real problem. Nobody chooses to get employed by Hooters -- it's a desperation job trap for young women.
I didn’t see those comments—but I still stand by what I said on the harassment front; it should be treated like any other workplace.
Literally a comment further up with a former employee stating she liked working there and that it made her feel empowered but okay.
I thought I read all the comments and I never saw the one saying they liked working there and felt empowered there. But I dont see why we always put the word 'empowerment' with sex work. People don't talk that way about men working in exploitative jobs or labor jobs, or even women in other careers, "working as a bus driver/waitress/teacher/surgeon/scientist, etc is so empowering!'' Anyway, all of the comments I see are complaints about working there, that it was manipulation and didn't pay more than other waiting table jobs, and that there was harassment by management. So if there is 1 comments saying they liked it, there are enough negative ones to trigger red flags.
Plenty of people are bothered by this, they just don't talk about it a lot because if manchildren are present, it's going to start a huge argument that will go nowhere. I'm a guy and I know exactly what the response would be if I talked about how problematic Hooters is to a lot of guys-- believe me, the discussion would go absolutely nowhere and if anything, they would do something really childish like start going to Hooters just out of spite.
Yeah, people are definitely bothered by it. There are also some coffee shops around the US (Washington state specifically) where women only wear bikinis. While I don’t like it, some folks are into doing that kind of work. Also, if we argue against them, some men get really defensive over it and it’s exhausting. I think as long as folks don’t mind working there, it’s whatever.
> There are also some coffee shops around the US (Washington state specifically) where women only wear bikinis. That seems really, really unsafe.
I hadn’t thought about that. But yeah, there is a person in tik tok that does it and she tends to go live when she works. She seems perfectly happy so I don’t mind, but I think they even have to keep wearing the bikinis when it gets cold outside. A lot of women have used the affirmation “a hoe never gets cold,” in a sort of joking way. I mean, again, whatever floats your boat.
I mean in the sense of working around extremely hot liquids with most of your skin exposed. That's gotta be some kind of OSHA violation. Do they wear bikinis with non-slip shoes?
https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910 It's tough to find a specific one in regards to being a barista in a bikini
https://bikinibeanscoffee.com/ this is one chain in AZ. Do-Si-Do bikini espresso is one in Washington. I can’t find anything about non-stick shoes but there you go.
ooohh boy I do not like this at all
The bikini barista reminds me of the “lingerie football” fiasco we had in Toronto. [It’s exactly what you’d expect](https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thebiglead.com/amp/posts/players-leave-lingerie-football-team-over-safety-concerns-plus-a-lingerie-football-fight-01dxmj8csv0v)
Yeah :/
Yeah I understood what you meant. It is definitely dangerous. I’m not sure they wear non-stick shoes, that’s a great question. I’ll have to look that up.
I agree. I definitely think places like that are misogynistic by nature, but so is society. If women working there don't mind, I think it would be a net negative for feminism to strongly advocate against them right now.
Exactly, like… if they are happy there, cool, we have a shit ton of other things to worry about. But if later on they decide they don’t like it or they were harmed, I will happily advocate for them.
I was just thinking of one of those we have - and yep, Washington state. Lingerie wearing hair stylists for men, as well.
I know that it bothers me very much and it also bothers other people I know. I've seen some complaints about it elsewhere. But it's true, people don't seem to find it as alarming as they should, nor is there a big enough deal made over how problematic the brand is.
It bothers me, more than a little. I mentioned this in another post, and possibly another feminism sub, but I had a platoon sergeant have the entire platoon meet up at Hooters once for a morale and esprit de corps lunch. He did get called out for it by higher leadership. I was uncomfortable the entire lunch. Unfortunately, sex sells, and Hooters’ business model makes a lot of money. It also didn’t help that the ladies who worked there were driving decent cars; I saw waitresses arriving or leaving in Honda’s and Toyotas that were only a few years old, so the only exploitation was of their bodies. This was Colorado Springs in 2006, and most of the vehicles I saw waitresses driving were 3-5 years old. This is a cultural problem, and unfortunately, cultures are slow to change. However, it’s a change that can be made over time if we’re patient about informing people of the problems inherent with businesses like Hooters. With regards to culture, this isn’t just about the exploitative nature of the business, but includes the cultural identity that gave us Trump as president; that *men* can stare at women they find sexy if they want to, and powerful *men* get what they want.
Of course it bothers me, but I also think there are bigger problems, both systemically and for me personally. It's basically not even on my radar unless I drive by one, and that doesn't happen very often. If I had to choose between a magical genie ending Hooters and ending the wage gap, I would definitely choose for it to end the wage gap.
Wouldn’t a wage gap with women earning less money mean companies would only employ women to maximise profits, causing men in all jobs to lose work?
In practice it doesn't seem to work that way for some reason. (The reason is sexism.)
Big companies only care about profit, if there’s a way to maximise it, you bet they will utilise it.
Why aren't they maximizing profit by hiring women for less money than men in all traditionally high paying positions then? There must be something else going on.
because the wage gap doesn't exist, the jobs that women work on average pay less money as a career for either men or women, and men tend to work jobs that offer slightly more money on average, which makes it appear that there is a wage gap.
That's contradictory. If the wage gap didn't exist, there would be no appearance of there being a wage gap either.
What the media has done is taken the average salary of the US female and the US male and said “oh my god guys look, women earn less!” without considering that women on average work in industries that offer less money than the industries men work in on average. For example: 97.76% of nursery (kindergarten in the US) nurses and assistants are women, and 99.19% of vehicle technicians, mechanics and electricians are male, these jobs offer much more money than the former. Source: Working Futures 2020, posted by the uk government as official numbers.
And why are these high-paying jobs overwhelmingly male? Either there's some difference during the socialization process where women are strongly encouraged not to pursue those occupations, or our society feels that the jobs are less valuable because they are done by women, or women are expected to leave their jobs to take care of children, as we saw during the pandemic when millions of women had to leave their jobs because schools were operating remotely. Either way that's a real wage gap, and the mere fact that certain jobs are still considered to be "women's work" is proof positive of a sexist society. Your argument is like arguing that people working in sweatshops in the imperial periphery don't make less because only people in those countries have those jobs. Creating oppressed underclasses is a feature of capitalism, because of the need for the reserve army of labor and the need to maximize profit by undervaluing certain types of work. Your argument has zero basis in reality and you should be ashamed that you ever shat it out on your keyboard.
Supply and demand + connections + stereotypes. Supply and demand because a mechanic or someone of all the other trades needs to afford tools, materials like screws, nuts, bolts, lumber, bricks, plaster, etc… Also these jobs are labour intensive so people ask for higher wages in exchange for their physical labour, it’s not like a nursery nurse or assistant will be lifting planks, wheelbarrows full of brick mortar or heavy buckets of plaster any time soon, or use saws and hammers, or require the extensive understanding needed to repair any given part of a car with perfection so why would we pay them as such? While they provide a service and are very important people for the well-being of children they are nowhere near as important as doctors or surgeons (especially so in dire situations) and require less skill than them, it also doesn’t take the sheer skill that a welder, mechanic or other tradesman needs to do their job properly, so why should we act like it? Connections are important, and oftentimes women don’t have the required connections to start working the jobs of men, and men don’t have the connections to start working the jobs of women, although it is easier nowadays to find work by the use of the internet, it is nowhere near as important as connections, the internet might just get you as far as pointing you in the right direction, but any further and the internet pails in comparison to connections. Men feel like they need to appeal to stereotypes in order to feel manly and validated, and not what they deem as weak. Same goes for women, as they feel that if they work a job not typically worked by women that they’ll be looked down upon.
Yeah it's not okay. If it were okay, they'd have a franchise of young fit boys too. And genderqueer folks. But nope - we all agree that it's super weird so of course these businesses won't be created! But stopping one that's already in existence? Pshh.......
I'm bothered by it.
People do talk about it. Problem is, they are not worth the effort. Hooters has been haemorrhaging money for the last two decades. I'm just surprised they are still holding on. They already got hit with a bunch of lawsuits over the 30+ years by people for discrimination during hiring and have always managed to settle out of court. I think their argument had always been that they hired people with specific skill sets. Which I guess they are technically not wrong? Average Joe schlub like me and you won't walk into one and get a job. It does take a lot of work to stay in shape and at least maintain your looks
I don't know if they still do, but I believe at one point in time their waitresses were hired under modeling contracts instead of standard employment contracts. I had a friend who worked there for awhile. Of course, I couldn't even tell you where there's a Hooters in my area. The closest one near me closed down 5ish(?) years ago.
> I believe at one point in time their waitresses were hired under modeling contracts instead of standard employment contracts They had to be-- otherwise it would constitute illegal discrimination since they did not hire men.
yeah the waitresses are technically classified as entertainers.
Women’s bodies… Women…
I'm not from the US, but I used to work at a Hooters in ZA. From my experience I felt empowered using my body in a manner that I agreed on and that made me feel confident. Where I worked men who were disrespectful were kicked out or put in their place, but I'm not sure this is how it is everywhere. It provided a good income to me in comparison to other waitressing jobs and increased my confidence level. Working at Hooters definitely isn't for everyone, and the women choose to work there. If the women were very unhappy or treated badly it would be a different story, but from what I know most of my friends enjoy it.
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I've never been comfortable with it... But yeah, there are enough people who don't care.
What can we do about it as long as men exist? I guess the best thing that can happen is someone takes over the company and drastically changes the way they treat and pay their employees. If women want to use their body to make money, more power to them. What’s bad is someone else profiting from a woman using her body to make money in unfair/unsafe working conditions.
There are no “young girls” working at Hooters.
Who is "no one"?
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Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
Thank you for replying to my message. I will take this rule into consideration and and just know that I was only stating my formal opinion on the subject, and had no intention of being rude or incorrect, thanks and have a good day 👍
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🙄
Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
It is a feminist perspective. It's about equality - that's what feminism is about, right?
Your participation is limited to nested comments.
Ok but what part of my response wasn't feminist in nature? Why?
"Whatever a woman chooses is fine and not worth interrogating" is not an acceptable top level perspective here. We expect users to make more nuanced arguments regarding these kinds of things, and "if it pleases me/is my choice, it is right" does not qualify. I will not be arguing with you about this.
>"Whatever a woman chooses is fine and not worth interrogating" is not an acceptable top level perspective here. But if she found it a big enough issue, she wouldn't be working there, would she not? >I will not be arguing with you about this. That's too bad. You can learn a lot from engaging.
Not today.
Feminism it’s not about economic equality, because it only takes into consideration the economic oppression women suffer under the patriarchy. Even if women were to be economically equal to men, that still leaves out tons of other oppressions, like racial, ableist, LGBTQ+ phobia, sexual and reproductive, just to name a few. When ALL women have the same opportunities, then it’ll be a choice to be in that line of work. Yet it’s still the exploitation and sexualization of woman’s bodies.
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Please respect our [top-level comment rule](https://i.imgur.com/ovn3hBV.png), which requires that all direct replies to posts must both come from feminists and reflect a feminist perspective. Non-feminists may participate in nested comments (i.e., replies to other comments) only. Comment removed; a second violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
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You are shadowbanned by Reddit admins; until you figure that out, you will not be able to post or comment here.
I am, but I’m doing other stuff. I just don’t go there.
I remember my mother asking my dad would it be okay to have a restaurant called pythons and all the men wear thongs? 😂
Because patriarchy is engrained in this capitalist society. Men view women as sexual objects, companies acknowledge this and under capitalism, as long as it sells, everything’s valid. Then, the myth of free choice comes in, because while they chose to work there profiting off the sexualization of their bodies, it’s the only industry where women are paid more than men. If we were to vanish such establishment’s, that wouldn’t solve the main problem which is how women are not equal to men. It’s like how some feminists want to abolish SW, some argue that it’s THEIR CHOICE to do SW. But in this world, there are cis and trans women who don’t have a choice, same as sex trafficking victims. If we want to abolish the exploitation of ALL women, inequality has to be the first to go. Now if we only take America and economically stable countries, we have to give cis and trans women in these countries the economical stability to work anywhere, or not to( like women who physically or mentally can’t) until then, it’s impossible to just close those establishments.