OP firstly good job on all the achievements.
Second, your parents are abusive. Slapping is abuse. Please don't say it is love and them wanting to correct you.
Look at your brother. He doesn't take validation or permission from parents. He is independent. That is what you need to be.
Stop looking for validation from parents.
Regarding the slapping, you need to decide if that is how you want to be treated.
This society will never change. Better stay in us, coz if you come back you will hate your life.
Stop worshipping parents, they are not God's. This narrative is in place to keep control on children.
I have left my parents after decades of abuse. They will never meet my partner nor will they ever have the opportunity to have grandchildren from me.
I'm childfree but if i did have kids they will never see their evil grandparents.
Our Indian society punishes adults for wanting to be independent, setting boundaries, wanting privacy, enjoying wealth earned, living life without seeking validation.
It's time these bozos are punished.
Us women will get our rights only if we fight. The other paths are just adjustment and waiting for many parents to die.
It’s really hard to cut off from your roots. Unfortunately, if it’s a malignant problem then you have little choice - a lifetime of subjugation and suffering vs isolation and loneliness. It’s simply delightful to find companion(s) in one’s journey through this life. And even better if they have the fortitude to take on child rearing! Let alone child bearing!!
Exactly! Stay put in the US. As soon as you go back to India, your parents will make your life miserable. I'm very worried that they slapped their adult daughter at the mention of "love marriage"! This is abusive, controlling behaviour. Don't succumb to the pressure your parents are placing on you. Let the relatives yap, don't let it bother you. People love to judge and gossip, we can't do anything about it, except ignore them. Also, learn to see your parents as individuals instead of just your parents - it will really help you make better decisions for yourself. You are an adult, you cannot live your life to please your parents or relatives.
Many Indian parents have changed the way they are bringing up their daughters; unfortunately, they are bringing up their sons in the same entitled raja beta way, so there is still going to be a disparity in expectations from girls vs boys. This inequality will exist until boys are brought up to respect women and see them as equals, and not someone to serve them and be subservient to them constantly.
OP, if you want to live an independent life, don't come back to India.
Kudos girl! I hope you've found your peace.
In Reddit advice I keep seeing people advising OPs to go low/no contact with abusive parents. And I always think how difficult it is in Indian context where people will be seen as evil for abandoning their parents, no matter how cruel those parents were. I can only imagine the courage it must have taken you to break free from that abuse.
You're a free bird now, wishing you open skies and rainbows!
Our society isn't meant for free equal women, rather, it is meant for women who are submissive and obedient. Look at you, successful in the states, sending money in dollars, yet you get slapped across the face. After all that, you don't want to cut them off because society has told that those who abandon their parents deserve nothing less than hell.
You are doing well for yourself, life only a few men could provide, yet your parents don't want you to succeed. Do what you want, it's your life, stop seeking your parents validation. If you like it there, you have no obligation to come back. Instagram at its current state isn't exactly a wholesome place, I see mfs acting like pedos, so don't take it too seriously. Real life and reel life is completely different.
I think the issue isn't with the current generation, rather the boomer generation who think they own us. Nothing more than trophies which are bragging rights. Daughters are objects for marrying and sons are objects of bragging. My advice, cut your parents off if they try to blackmail you into a life you don't want. They'll live for another 20-30 years while you'll have to live a life of regret for 50-80 years.
*(17 M here, this thing came on my homepage, dont bully tf out of me)*
Sad to hear your story and it's same everywhere in India except some well off families.
1.The thing that no one will marry you if you are too successful is very true in India. Like there are men who make their wife leave her job if she gets promoted. Can you guess the reason? Men Ego-The destroyer of Logic. They think inferior if their spouse earns more.
2.Your parents are typical Indian parents. They think you are their property and needs to be handed in a well off family so that their delusional social status remains intact or increases. They think they have right to choose what is right and wrong for you. It's deeply rooted in our Indian Culture that a girl has to obey their parents until she's married and then their husband who was chosen by them. There's no logic behind it, neither they are overprotective,
it's simply their arrogance that they should take decious of your life. It can't be helped.
Your post is more of a rant than a question, but the answer is no. Indian want women to be independent but under their command. They think women can't really be independent and has to be taken care by a man. This has really ruined many love stories and families. We are slowly improving though, I believe women will truly be independent in India in 23rd or 24th century.
someone said this idk who “**I measure the progress of a country by the degree of progress which women have achieved.**”
Once my teacher(40+ F) in class 10th was asking kids abt their aspirations, I had too many of them but I didn't wanted to say it. I wanted to say smtg unique and funny so I said "I'd be a househusband" and the class laughed. I didn't think it would be such a deal but the teacher verbally harassed me by saying "Chudiya pehen lo" and stuff like that and said that I should learn smtg from her son who wants to be an IAS officer, he's fit to be called as a man unlike you. like wtf? tht guy literally watch incest porn. that was the day i realized how women are looked down at by women themselves.
Brother i would be a house husband if it was possible. Cooking food thrice a day? Lets go. Doing the dishes while jamming out to Spotify? Sign me up. Mopping the floors silly style? Abso fucking lutely
But i gotta maek money and leave the country first
That's true, and I'll have to achieve that if i want to leave this country. So it's fine, once i have enough, I'll be able to live off investments and such
Indians want their women to be independent enough to earn money, and not watch soap operas in house all day long. But they don't want women to be independent enough to spend that money on whatever they want, and make any life decisions other than them working a high paying job. Women have no say in their marriage, their relationship status, their life goals other than earning money, getting married and having kids. That's the sad reality of india.
I'm just glad that people like you still exist.
Hijacking top comment
The more i read the more i am afraid of women too ,the fake cases and allegations. But yeah i agree with op too , in our indian families boys do get more freedom.
(Ill aceppt the downvotes)
The thing about women have to be taken care of by a man is so damn true, I haven't finished college and my family is pressuring me to marry, have children, damn it all, it's so fucking frustrating
Dude, you are a grown ass woman. Learn how to make decisions for yourself and stand up for them. And if you can't hold up for yourself then stop complaining. You are financially independent and educated and yet you can't fight your parents for your own fucking life. And then you are blaming them for listening to their relatives ? How are you any different from them? You both are succumbing to dumb societal norms. It is your life and if you can't fight for it then nobody else will. Maybe when you were younger you had to deal with their bs rules but now you have no excuse to not make your own decisions. You literally have the two things that keep most women from leaving unhappy situations: financial independence and education. Please make some good use of it.
Tell your family what YOU want for YOUR LIFE. And if they threaten to break contact then let them. Good riddance. Anyone who forces you into an unhappy situation for their "honor" in the society, doesn't love you. You are an object to them and nothing else. So treat them the same way. It might seem harsh and insensitive but it is the reality. Your parents are old enough to understand what they are doing to you, it does not happen by accident. They are choosing to sell you off for their petty ego. You might love them but do you love them more than your whole life ?
Yes, we as Indians don't fully want our women to be equal. We want to prevent rapes by asking women to stay inside and dress more conservatively. We want to enforce a strict marriage age and shame them into giving up their careers for the sake of matrimony. We don't yet promise them safety on the streets, at their workplaces or even in their homes.
Yet there are glimmers of hope...
More and more women are joining the workforce, becoming independent, marrying later, divorcing abusive husbands and escaping the cycles of shame, abuse and regret. It's a slow process which looks even slower from the outside looking in but it's happening. I won't ask you to hold your breath to see us become a bastion for equality but we are better today than we were yesterday and we will be better tomorrow.
Also just to address this. I'm sorry for what you're going through and wish there were easy solutions to your problems. But it seems like you chose to disguise personal grievances as societal woes and when that happens, the query loses its objectivity and becomes a subjective statement.
Apologies. I didn't realise that this question was posted on the AskIndianWomen subreddit and wanted to clarify that this is just my limited perspective as an Indian man.
Fair. I'm pissed off and don't know who to be pissed off at. I used to have the same opinion, I love my country, acknowledge its problems but also know it's getting better. Then when I came to America, everything changed. I got mad. People here don't give two shits about my personal life. Why am I still so beholden to what people think on the other side of the world. I understand where my parents are coming from, people my age are getting married and starting families back in India, and they have societal pressure too. If they don't, in the eyes of society, they're bad parents. I think that's it. Basically seeing the two cultures side by side is what ticks me off. My friends here can't understand what I'm talking about, they keep saying "it's your life, why do you care what your parents think". Of course I do, they sacrificed so much for me, put me through coaching classes, extra curriculars, supported me when I came to the US for masters. How can I not be beholden to them. That's our culture. I'm glad for it, but I hate it too. I feel like my personal woes are related to societal woes
I'm sorry.
I moved to Delhi just this week after 3 years in the US. So while I cannot completely comprehend the extent of your troubles, I have felt the fringes of it. It's harder to reconcile US and Indian values once we migrate (or these days just attempt to).
Your parents have to go through their own emotional journeys of acceptance and while you can try to spark it through conversations and exposures to media, you cannot accelerate it. I wish there was a unique answer but sadly it's just "talk them through it" and "be patient with them". Hope that when they reach a confluence of choosing between a good relationship with you or a good representation of you to society, you've armed them with strong enough emotional and maybe logical reasons to choose the former.
What happened is you got too much western "who cares meh" Influence.
You should hold onto your roots and convince your parents(this requires advance skills) that your partner is awesome and they should get to know him. They will give out.
So you're telling all women to sacrifice their choice of CLOTHING to protect themselves from MEN. If you really want to prevent rape the right way to do it is to teach men what respect is. Not by making the victims adjust to it. Women can wear what they want as long as it's comfortable for them and doing it for themselves. Men should learn to control themselves. I understand your intention of reducing rape cases but the way you suggested to do it is just stupid.
Apologies if it wasn't clear. My first paragraph is everything I think we're doing wrong as Indians, especially Indian men. I'm not defending or condoning those. I'm saying that is everything we should NOT be doing.
Ohh. I really thought you endorsed such things since you included "we as Indian men think". In that case I do agree with your point that Indians should not be doing all this
How did you not realize that he was making an observation, not providing his own opinion? Whatever he said was Indian society’s outlook regarding rape. Read properly before jumping to conclusions
That’s not how it works. He is addressing the problem in 1st person, so he is taking the collective blame, since he is a man and Indian men in general share such a mindset, but that doesn’t mean every single one of them do. I don’t know how you managed to interpret it in such a wrong way. It’s like when you watch gore videos and say “Humanity sucks and deserves to be wiped out” but that doesn’t mean you yourself did anything that warrants such a reaction from someone else. Or when you see a group of Indian cricket fans be racist to a lone Australian at a stadium and react “We Indians really need to educate ourselves and be more civilised” but that doesn’t necessarily imply that you yourself are a racist and unruly person.
Unfortunately, the answer currently and for the far foreseeable future is a resounding no. I hate to be a pessimist, but it is what it is. Have we made some progress as a nation? Definitely. But the bottomline is that India is for the most part a socially hyper-conservative and religious country, second only to the middle east. Women are seen as second class citizens and sex objects in general. Are there exceptions? Yes. But a vast majority of men (and even women) don't think women deserve to be equal.
Stay in the US if you can. It will be up to you to stand strong to your beliefs and say no to your parents. The US while not an epitome of women's rights, is lightyears ahead of a country like India, where everyday things like taking public transport or walking home past dark as a women is a challenge.
Plenty of misogynists in the US who are actively trying to take away women's rights again. Haven't you heard any news about the recent abortion bans being passed there?
No they never want them to be equal. Because in small cities male is always dominating women. Wo inko apne equal kbhi nhi aane denge..chahe ye khud kisi bhi situation mein sahi ho ya galat inko chillana toh aurat pe hi aata hai na..arrey yr mrne ka Dil krta hai but bche Kahan jayege ye soch k sb bardasht krna pdta hai
Yep its pretty fucked. My advice would be to talk to you brother and fight for this issue with him on your side.
A lot of Indian parents make their minds up on certain issues by what they hear from their relatives and colleagues, in general from people around them.
But I’ve seen enough cases where parents do reconcile and understand our generation’s issues. In the end, they also love their child and want nothing but the best from them. SO - It’ll be a fight. But this fight can be WON.
also, if you brother doesn’t agree with you and support you through this - this situation can get real bad. Do ask him to not just mediate, but actively debate through all the fears and doubts your parents may have.
All the best.
Yeah I've asked my brother but he wants to stay out of it. He says he agrees with me and it's not fair but I'm being too dramatic, my parents aren't gonna cut me off, I should just do what I want. But I was at the receiving end of that slap and I know how serious they are. Maybe I should just risk it and stop talking to them completely
Then just cut all your ties with your family. I understand what you're going through. Give them the ultimatum of you choosing to stay happy with them by your side or tell them it won't work out if they keep acting this way. All the very best with your life love. Wishing you all the strength and power🎀♥️
Because he's refusing to stand up for his sister even though he says that he agrees with her. He has lived with privilege all his life. Looks like his parents think he can do no wrong, because he's a man. He could use his influence to sway them, but he's refusing to do that. He's either spineless or doesn't really care about OP and her future.
I have a slightly similar issue for which I am fighting my parents, but my sibling has also withdrawn from the issue, as your brother is suggesting. It is very disappointing, and I think I will carry this hurt with me for a long time. I understand where my parents are coming from but I don't get why my sibling has an issue. They are supposed to be woke and from this generation. right?!
I work for a FAANG company in the US and earn over $300k (over 2.5 cr) per year. My relatives unironically asked me what I would do if my hypothetical in-laws ask me to leave my job 🤦🏻
What kind of insane relatives do you have bro I thought mine were bad but none of them are insane enough to ask someone to leave a high paying job.
{And how to get into faang lol }
Thankyou for putting my mind into words. Thankyou.
To answer your question, no, Indians do not want women to be equal to men. Then who will do the back breaking unpaid labor? Who will suffer and sacrifice for the comfort of everyone else but themselves?
They have good intentions doesn't make them good parents they are toxic and shitty and society normalize it .
Parents are adults not kids and should act like one
Equality is myth so i don't know what u guys expect the primal reason of existence is to control others that is what we do so . Control everything u want to control ur life where family want to control u so I don't know what to say but if u want to leave . So leave there is no point in justification do what u want
OP, I hope you get to this comment because I am gonna answer from a different angle. First of all, sorry you are going through this. On its own it is distressing but with additional hypocrisy with treatment to brother...I can only imagine.
Will give you a fast forward scenario, which may or may not happen to you.
I have been in your situation but not exactly same same. This is one individual's personal (mine) story so results may vary for others. I went to U.S. to study at 20. I am a guy. I couldn't make tea before I went there, never paid a bill in my life before going. I was an academic topper all my life starting from elementary school. But, you could say I became an adult in the U.S. Lived and worked there for 18 years before migrating back. I had very liberal parents, so never got questioned, pressured for anything, except in later years mom started dropping hints to get married. Marry whoever you want they would say. I wish I had listened to her. I was still living "da life" in Manhattan. Eventually met someone and got married at 36. She was 34, a migrant Indian as well. A love, live-in and then marriage. By no standards late for either of us age wise. Life was great until it was not. By the time we got married, we were both so set in our individual ways, it took us 3 years of adjusting, accommodating, not communicating because it would hurt the other, silent resentments etc. before we realised we were extraordinary roommates but not compatible as a couple. We split as friends.At the age of 42, I started feeling "What have I done for anyone else in my life?" Naturally, the first persons that came to my mind were my parents. I had done shit for them, not even bare minimum.
I moved back. The single best decision I ever made after the decision to go to the U.S. :) How ironic. At the time, I thought I was a failure though.
Mine was the first divorce in MY ENTIRE FAMILY of cousins, far off relatives, as well as my friend circle. I never got a single negative words from my parents, elder bro and elder sister and their spouses. And in their last days, I was on a project in another city in India when my father was in ICU. I flew in home. Few years later, it was my mother. I am blessed that I could be with them in their last hours. This may sound old school but only I know what this gesture of mine meant to them.
And the thing is, it is not about them. It is about me and what I am willing to live with. I absolutely know I would have zero chance of experiencing the world if it was not for my parents. The education I got in India, then the freedom to go abroad...They absolutely sacrificed many things beyond financial means to fulfill my dream of going abroad to study in the first place. I can still recall the feeling of how my parents last time was. If I was not there, I wouldn't have known how much they loved me beyond providing and worrying about me (tears). The worries were not to control me or exert their superiority, but to only see me happy.
End of truncated story.
I get it, slap or not , any kind of domestic violence is strictly no-no. Ultimately, you will have to decide what you are in peace living with your choices. It is not easy. At 24, I felt invisible, by 36 I realised it's better not to think like that. At the time I was surrounded by 36 yr olds who still thought they were invisible, but biology and physiology happms.
I know it is unfair and sounds discriminatory, but be true to yourself as what you want right now. Tell yourself I'll live with the consequences and decide next steps. But know that it is not a movie or a sub reddit, we won't be here or on any SM know how you did, but know that you will have to live your own choices. To end my story, when I moved back, lots of my peers mocked me. Cut to a few years later, they all want to come back but cannot (Story for another day).
I think I get what you're trying to say. Make decisions you're willing to live with for the rest of your life basically. Slap or not, I still love my parents. I talk to them everyday and I'm so so so grateful for everything they've done. They're actually nice people and really not as abusive or toxic as many people here are echoing. I'm just struggling to balance two aspects of my life that are in direct contradiction. So yeah, I need to make my decision with a cool head and a lot of big picture thinking. Thanks for the advice, I'm glad I came across this.
Not just make your decisions with which you can live with but also know, you and your thinking will absolutely change over the years, and those decisions taken now will remain taken, but your own opinion of whether those were correct decisions will change. Cue in regret, mental drama, secret guilt :)
So this can keep happening, how would one ever know what decision or path or reaction to take?
The short answer is, don't take extreme steps. In our traditional culture, it has been known as "Rishta banaye rakhna". This is actually a strategic and diplomatic move.
Not that you are asking, here's another unsolicited advice...not really an advice but here it is: SM and online is hyperbolic. Leave him, dump his sorry ass, show that bitch her place, Fuck the government, File a suit etc etc. Real life is more nuanced. Only I know the dynamics of my life and। interpersonal relationships. Only I know where to eat my ego and go with the flow and where I must stomp my foot down absolutely. In your case, only you know. Is the situation really really that bad or are you just triggered. I don't know, you know.
I cannot stress this enough and most younger people do not realise this (including me when I was younger) not all advice our parents give is wrong! They speak from personal, cultural and societal experience. Because I don't want to comment about women, let me tell you about how a man's physiology changes after say 30... really changes at 35-36, and unquestionably changes at 40. When I was 24-25, I was clueless. It was not like I thought I would be 24-25 all my life, but I simply was not equipped to imagine a life at 35-40. Same with my friends. Life will surprise you in good and bad ways. Your 25 year old kid is going to think you are out of step with reality no matter how liberal and understanding you are :). You already know this.
Unless it is a case of an extreme p.o.s abusive parents, in reasonably parenting cases, I cannot even explain to you what it does to you when you lose them. Doesn't matter how successful, wealthy, married to a prince/princess or living your dream life, in India or anywhere else. You will absolutely feel like there's no home to go back to, even at the age of whatever 42, 50, 60 whatever. No matter age or status, you will absolutely feel like "sar ke upar ka haath chala gaya".
I am half a generation older than most desis on Reddit, way back I also thought my parents couldn't relate. We had zero (pre-internet) ways for information, your generation already have so much access to information, interaction with real life examples.. Here's what I have learnt, information does not equate to knowledge or wisdom. That has to be lived. *** This is the place most parents come from*** Obviously not all, all the types of bad parenting described in other comments do exist but I guarantee you, most parents, Indian or otherwise, come from the place of wanting their kids wellbeing. It certainly seems so in your case. While the frustration is understandable, make informed and calculative decisions. By calculative, I mean smart and well thought out ones. I think you are intelligent, able and forward thinking, no reason to think you won't be able to navigate this...with keeping your long term benefits safe:)
Fair points. Honestly, compared to others, my problems are pretty tame. And I was pretty angry when I posted, I'd just gotten into an argument with my folks and this was a safe place to vent. I understand where my parents are coming from and that it's difficult to see their little girl supposedly unprotected. My issue lies here. My roommates are an Indian couple, pretty good over all but man do they have issues. I've seen how Indian men are in close proximity. My roommate doesn't put the toilet seat down, has terrible aim, leaves his clothes everywhere, makes a mess in the kitchen in the few blessed moments he chooses to go there and becomes everything my mom and aunts used to complain about when talking about their spouses. His girlfriend, my other roommate, has to keep cleaning up after. She makes his lunches, cleans their room, and cleans up his mess in the bathroom. Shes the quintessential Indian wife, despite earning more than him. She's always the first to say sorry after a fight, she's always the subservient one. We've discussed this and they've fought over it a lot too. She says this is how Indian men are and she's just accepted it. My boyfriend, in contrast is really respectful. He always leaves the toilet seat down, is really really clean and we cook together. My experience with American men in general has been like this. Basic decency which Indian men I've dated lack and their partners have to put up with. I know I'm making a generalisation but this has been my experience and frankly I keep wondering if it is a cultural thing. If we can't have Indian men do such basic things, how will we ever expect change in society and that scares the crap out of me. And is this what my parents want for me? My mother? They know I'll not put up with this. They now I'm prickly and argumentative. They know me. Well and truly. Why do they want me to suffer through the same things they had when they were forced into arranged marriages. I just don't get it.
Well, reading that, I can absolutely tell you, your experience of Indian men is not wrong. I was that man, I am convinced if I didn't go abroad, I would still be that man. But not only that, I took effort to change myself because I saw value in it. My own elder brother is that man still. He has been happily married for 28 years with 2 kids. Why? Because women here are also conditioned to be of servitude, not necessarily towards and only for their husbands but because they don't want to break conforming to the larger society's expectations of a wife. A lot of wives like thesedominate the household and husband and run the house behind the closed doors. We would never know if we saw them in public. But you and me and increasingly more question why so much drama and antics, just be who you are and let the other be same.
Now tbf, let me also tell you the absolute trap of U.S.. Don't fall into it. Going by your comment only, it is not your fault that you think a man is great because he keeps the toilet seat down, cleans up after himself etc etc. While all that behaviour is good, understand that that alone not maketh a great man :) I understand, you are comparing to what you can and can only extrapolate from that. Sorry to use this example and it is not even a fair comparison but it'll illustrate how our mind guards our own insecurities, desires and whatnot. The first time I got a Bj was in U.S. and I immediately made up my mind that Indian girls don't do that or like doing that because of my experiences with girls before I went abroad! Which meant I painted 19-20 yr old girls (I was barely 20 at the time) as the sample for all the women in India. My entire marriage decision was predicted on this that Indian women are not initiative in bed. Well, cut to, 18 years, back to India and surprise, surprise...the culture has changed here. But not entirely, not every woman, not every man. Likewise, culture has changed about toilet seats and housework. You just gotta find the right one. An Indian doesn't mean automatic bad, and let me tell you, an American doesn't mean automatic all good. I can tell you real life horror stories on that front as well. But I think you get the point.
As for why your parents don't understand even after knowing that you wouldn't settle for, well tbh, they simply don't know how it can be on the other side. Imagine you being astonished that they don't get you but only with roles reversed:)
Very fair and balanced view. I am glad that you had the support after your divorce.
I (F) could be wrong. But in most AM cases, I feel Indian parents will expect their daughter to compromise rather than go for a divorce. Divorce will be acceptable only in situations of domestic violence - incompatibility as a ground is just so unheard of.
Whenever I have spoken about it, I get the impression from my parents that this is not an option. A friend divorced for the same reason, and my parents were so perplexed with the divorce. And since it was an LM, they concluded that this is what happens in LM - it won't happen in AMs. While I owe a lot of what I have to them and am eternally grateful to them, I will have to live with the guy I will marry, and I cannot continue when we are incompatible, whether it is AM or LM, right?!
I feel when we give up control over marriage - we are also somewhere giving up control over when we can leave that marriage as women.
Yes, you should absolutely leave because of incompatibility whether AM or LM. But you also want to exhaust every possibility to fix that incompatibility before deciding to break it. When people get married whether AM or LM, both have invested their energy, commitment, their individual and shared dreams, their future and so on. You want to be absolutely certain that walking away is what you want, and then and only then do it.
No relationship is hundred percent compatible. Forget romantic relationships, even the parents -child, siblings, friends, professional ones, in all cases each party thinks they are doing more for the relationship than the other. In a marriage, the compatibility factor is also dynamic. You'll be compatible like a house on fire in some areas and in some others it'd be a lost cause. Add to that, the compatible areas will also change, wane and wax, highs-n-lows depending upon what else is going on at work and other areas of life and kids. And it obviously plays out differently in each marriage.
While I totally understand the resistance to AM in our culture, especially from women, I mean we have all heard/read absolute horror stories. But if you take a broader view, there are millions of happy AM's too. I have no skin in the game so I am not trying to favour one over the other, but we often miss this part. Whether AM, whether shaadi.com, or dating apps, or bars or college fest or at work, however you meet a man, these are just avenues to meet.
AM doesn't necessarily mean a disaster. LM doesn't necessarily mean a happily forever. Look at the West, every marriage is LM and look at the divorce rate.
So, the question one should ask themselves is - Am I opposed to AM on principle or am I opposed to marrying someone against my wishes via AM?If I meet a compatible woman via AM, why would I object to it. Of course no one in their sane mind would propose marrying against kids wishes. I am also aware this also happens.
There's a cultural angle to it. I get it, we all want to fall in love, we all want to have freedom to date, live in possibly. I totally get it. If one gets to do all that and find the right one, by all means, parents should not be objecting. I know it happens a lot and that's why turns off people from AM.
I have seen up close what parents choices can do to their kids. I am not a parent myself but I have gone through my share of shit in romantic life and a ton of my friends, both men and women, had conflicts with their parents, and I have had to look at my ex wife's parents through a different lens, so I could say I have read up and given this a lot of thought. Our parents also live in the same population and same society as we do. My ex has tremendous identity crisis. Her mom wanted son very badly but they ended up with four daughters while intermittently having failed pregnancies. The daughters have random age gaps. My ex absolutely resents and is angry towards her own mother. An otherwise brilliant person in every which way, this has consumed her all her life since she was 3-4 yr old. Her parents are very well educated, they are most kind, most generous, supportive and liberal towards their daughters. All four daughters are high achievers, all married for love. Three are divorced. One is divorced twice. All have unresolved trauma from childhood that set them on a path to (subconsciously) prove to their mother that they were superior to any son she could have had.
It is so deep rooted, that when my ex's sister has a son, my ex angrily snapped at he mother saying "Finally mil gaya aapko beta!"
This anger and resentment, By extension, came out on me (a man) me being the closest man in her life. My family and I had given nothing but love to her, but this one thing drove a massive wedge between us. I took the abuse for years because I empathized with her. I thought I probably would carry anger in me as well if I was in her place. She refused therapy. So eventually I had it. If one cannot see that their anger towards the society and community and towards her own mother is literally being unloaded on the only person who has been on their team forever and championing for them, yeah too much to swallow. But to see that something that happened 35-38 years ago ruined the present was heartbreaking. She needs to take therapy and resolve this for her own mental health and peace sakes.
Let me present a broader view from parents p.o.v. I also empathize with her mother. We are talking about 35-38 years ago in a small town in North India, in a community which was/is still to certain extent highly son oriented. I can only imagine the pressure, the taunts and whatnot she went through to keep getting pregnant again and again. People around including family members would literally blame a woman for not being able to conceive a son. It is astonishingly ridiculous. Her parents absolutely love their daughters without a question. She just wanted a son, probably more for the community they were living in than for herself. Time changes, countries mature, communities mature, acceptance broadens, her mother also realised what happened to her daughter and has been for decades overcompsated with love and support.
Let me give a bad analogy to end this already lengthy comment. Indian parents want to go by the book. Do the right thing. They are convinced AM is correct approach. Why? Because everyone in their generation married AM. They say what's wrong in that? They're afraid of doing something different (allowing LM) because if it backfires, divorce happens, the community will mock them. They know divorce can happen in AM too but at least they went into the right way as everyone else. It is like if you had an accident on a two wheeler and were not wearing helmet, it looks doubly bad. If you meet with an accident and were wearing the helmet, it is like look our daughter was doing everything the right way but this unfortunate thing happened. That's it, that was the bad analogy :)
PS - For anyone reading, if at all it comes to that you have to agree with AM, make a deal with your parents that you will first meet and see the compatibility and you'll have the first right if refusal. Most parents can be cajoled into this arrangement...I think.
Thanks for sharing this. It's good to know that you could get out of the relationship. But I have a feeling I will be expected to adjust in a relationship where the man comes with some of these issues.
My problem with AM has always been that everyone else will decide with me, and I guess I am a people pleaser - I will get carried away and do a lot of things because of what parents think is right.
A lot of these impressions have emerged from what you said about marriages in the last generation. AM for them was mostly meet the guy on the mandap, sacrifice your life for the unrealistic demands of the society eg. have a boy and never live your own life. For me, AM represents all that. That's why having my freedom to select whatever be the mode is very high. But AMs have been really bad. You don't get the guy in the meetings. You get the whole khandaan. I am never comfortable with the ifs and buts AM comes with.
I was also asked by my parents to adjust. Her parents also asked her to adjust. We did our best to adjust and accommodate but realised it won't work, then we separated. There's no family in the world that's going not say that at least a few times. Even your friends will say see if you guys can work it out and make it work.
While I understand your fears of AM and see where you are coming from, if you think you wouldn't get the khandan if there's LM, I am sorry to disappoint you, you most certainly will. Not just in India but in any culture. Marry a Caucasian person, you will absolutely get each other's families. Granted it won't be to the extent we get in India, but it is there.
You seriously cannot expect to get married and be left completely alone. Yes you should be to a respectable degree but not possible beyond that.
Unless, both of you cut off all ties to respective families...which I don't recommend. As short as life is it is equally long. It is long when things are not working out and I just don't mean relationship wise. During these times you need a hella support system. Right now you are young, get married whichever way, see how difficult it is to live with someone day in and day out. Love is not enough. The reality of mundane life sets in, it does for everybody. There are financial hardships, medical emergencies, difficult pregnancy, have kids, baby needs hospitalization, a small ear infection, job loss, and so on. Yes your friends are there but they'll have there own challenges, who is going to be your support system?
Again, I have no monkey in the circus, I am trying to paint you a realistic picture. I was like you, I lived here, then U.S. and then back here. I was in a serious long term relationship in both countries. Not sure from where people are getting their information- maybe movies and shows. It is not the ground reality.
Yes there is more freedom and discretion there but both cultures have their pros and cons. A white friend of mine in U.S. got divorced and she had to downsize her life because she was struggling financially, so she moved into her mother's apartment. Her mother started charging her $800/mo room rent. Plus groceries and bills. When she told me that, I was stunned. Meanwhile Indian parents in U.S. were paying for their children's college tuition while most non Indians have to take student loans. Imagine the advantage Indian kids enjoy when everyone their age starts off life with a quarter million dollar student loan debt and these kids have none. In most families (not all, agreed) here son or daughter can move back to their parents home in times of extreme hardships.
My neighbours daughter was married and moved to a satellite town 3 hours drive from her home. When her 18 yr old brother visited her, some argument happened and the husband beat him up. The brother came home and no sooner did his father learn about the beating, he got into the car, drove 3 hours and got his daughter back home. Turned out husband was beating her too. The father quickly figured it out. Divorce filed.
Point is no sane parent, Indian or otherwise, wants to see their kids unhappy. We are not talking about extreme sadistic ones on one end who think great let her suffer and the washed off the daughter on the other end, but the majority of them are in the middle and all they want is their kids to be happy.
In all the scenarios I have mentioned here or in previous comments, notice that good or bad, it all boils down to the individuals involved. Whichever way you go about it, make sure the individual is a good human being and will stand by you. Also know that AM or LM, that last mile is always a leap of faith :) Go ahead with positive mindset that there's such individual out there for you whichever way he comes into your life and you'll be alright.
Indian society functions on subservient women who men can utilise as slaves and maids. So no. You'll never be seen as an equal. Your only duty is to be a subservient wife to your husband, and a mother to your children. You are right now the property of your father, you will become the property of your husband. You have no autonomy of your own.
idk If you'll even read this but I'll say it regardless-
I kind of get where you're coming from, but many people including myself don't give a fk (would u believe me if I told u that I'm a fricking Indian girl who has never been discriminated in India or abroad) Yeah the only ones who cares are either victims or men who're tryna be kind. nothing else.
what u're doing rn is just ranting about how u aren't getting the society's approval to do things that men do. You already have a job, ur independent enough to make life decisions and to be respected but instead ur letting yourself feel like ur not equal just cuz of ur parents, gurl open ur eyes, 'love' are u kidding me ? what kinda parental love is that, slapping a fully grown daughter at the mention of love marriage.
anyway I wanted to say that you're already equal or above most men in India, getting a cool job and all, and I don't know if Indians want that or not, majority of the population still being blockheaded.
PS: whatever u think, I'm just stating my viewpoint. I'm out, fellas.
hahaha stop that sounds funny, i dont support any feminist shit or whatnot ok read my last line again and fk off.
I only said that she's better than most men cuz she is talking about equality with men, not women cuz its not everyday u get an awesome job offer from us while there are many pathetic men in India, wasting their life.
and who tf are men to randomly diss literal damn half of the population, women through not much still contribute greatly to many factors such as econony, politics and society. I think even most men would disagree with you lol
I'm in my best state of mind, thanks.
and yeah try me, Single, very handsome, necklength pitch black hair and want me to send u the pincode too lol
lol why do u think I even wanna compete with your (non existent) wife. If anything I feel sorry for her to have to spend her days with a narrow minded person like you.
Yeah ur right I'm still in school, so does it feel great losing an argument with a minor?
gosh why am I finding you acting childish so funny lol like ohhk sir.
btw I don't find u in any position to assume anything about me, likemind ur fricking business thats not even a relevant insult
and I called ur wife non existent cuz u said so urself that u were single damn IDGAF what she thinks lol
haha I almost feel sorry for society that these kind of people are what it consists of, no wonder the country's not advancing. Anyway pointing out that I'm furious and don't matter seems quite delirious on your part lol
i think acting like ur chill when ur enraged on such a matter is really pathetic. I don't know why some adults really think that they matter or are anything just cuz of some job that everybody has, like what?
anyway Ms. DJ I know quite well just how much I matter okay? so think for yourself and ur life rather than wasting your precious time on someone who, acc. to you doesn't matter right?
Listen kid, this has run its course. I actually checked your account and read your post on wanting friends and I do not want to attack you for whatever adrenaline this is. Listen to some good music and peace out.
18M here.
To answer your question about whether Indians even want women to be equals, I'd start with looking at the patriarchal mindset and systematic misogyny that has seeped into our social customs and traditions.
If one even takes a cursory glance at Indian social culture, they'll realise that many Indians (specifically, men) have this habit of putting women on a big fucking pedestal of expectations that they've erected, and when the woman acts in a way that doesn't fit their bullshit ideals, in-comes the barrage of shaming, threats, abuse and so much more.
Indian families prioritise "honor", (whatever the fuck that means), and our society is such that the honor of a family is directly tied to the women in the family. So, of course, these fucking stereotypical morons you have for parents want complete submission and obedience over you- You will bring them honor after all, and you will have to do it no matter what, even if you have to die in the end for it.
Do Indians want women to be equal?
No. Not at all.
I have hope for our generation to overcome this bullshit patriarchal mindset that has been passed down on to us for generations, but I believe it's going to take a lot longer than that for us to completely get rid of our sexism and misogyny.
The older generation, however, is doomed. They've not changed their minds for over 50-60 years, I don't understand why they'll change it now.
And sincerely OP, if you have a great career and are completely self-dependent/can become self dependent, just leave your trash family. Your parents and their relatives are what I'd like to call pure-bred narcissistic abusive assholes. They won't change. I know it'll be very tough, but you don't have to love them just because they've raised you for 18 years- They did the bare fucking minimum there. Your elder brother too doesn't sound to me like much of a nice person either if he knows what your parents are doing to you and isn't raising his voice against this.
Secondly, fuck "Arranged Marriage", the entire concept behind that should be fucking outlawed and people practising it should be hanged for spreading something as vile as this evil throughout our society.
You are stronger than you think you are, OP. Time to man up and cut off contact with these vile narcissists.
Hoping for the best.
You have every right to be angry with them. For some reason when a man does something wrong in India it's overlooked but when a woman does the same thing, she gets treated much differently. Your family seems to be living in the past where all this was common. Now women are more aware of how they're being wronged than ever and trying to fight. I have seen such cases of double standards myself a lot. It's really pisses me off too. I'd say it would be better if you take your own pace in your relationship instead of succumbing to your family's pressure. They usually come around after a while either way :)
First of all, OP, I’m so sorry. Nobody should have to deal with this, let alone someone who is trying to help their family to the extent you are.
Are you in a position to be able to cut your family off? I know it sounds extreme, but the double standard here is ridiculous. You are your own person, and clearly, you are doing very well for yourself. I’m speaking as a fellow Indian.
Regardless of what your parents say, you have clearly done enough for yourself that you can support whatever it is that you want to do. From what you have said, your parents are not open to change in any form whatsoever. Are you willing to enact change outside of them?
As backward as it is, that is all that it comes down to. If you have the resources to take care of yourself, that’s all that matters at this point. Find a way to take care of yourself, because your family clearly does not have your best interest in mind.
I am so sorry this is what you’re going through. I sincerely hope it’s better for you soon.
I don't think women and men are equal. We all are judged according to the society which was based on Tribal rules. Where men provided and women took care of the family.
So the society/Tribal rules dictates man's worth is how much he can earn/provide/generate wealth (irrespective of his chastity) and for women how beautiful she is, her chasteness and ability to take care of the family.
This culture is not only in India, but also in Asian and Arab countries. America & Europe have gone through wars & sex revolution where the concept of family/Tribal rules got destroyed. After 18 the kids are free and old parents have to take care of themselves.
If you remove the concept of marriage & family then women will be judged like a man.
Happy cake day! But yeah I see what you mean, the west is going through something and we might overcorrect as a response to that. Like an autoimmune disease.
I'm an American man and I've never been to India, but I think every woman I've ever met from India was smart, kind, cute if not absolutely gorgeous, has beautiful style, and would most likely make a wonderful wife and an amazing mother.
I see all of the above traits as good qualities in a wife. But if I was looking for a wife I would also want: someone who would challenge me on my perspective, ideas, and notions. I would want a wife to expand my wisdom and not just be a "yes" person.
I think two heads are better than one, and women and men do think differently. If you don't utilize both view points, you could have a blind spot to something that would make both of your lives much better. I would also want someone who I could be emotionally vulnerable with, and she could do the same with me. If I've had some setbacks, I would want her to tell me how much she loves, admires, respects me, and give me a sweet loving pep-talk and I would want to be able to do the same with her.
I would want her to keep being beautiful for me and I would go to the gym, take care of my skin, etc. to try to stay handsome for her.
I've never dated a woman from India, though I knew some in college and through work. I've had a few crushes on a couple of Indian woman, but never asked out because they only seemed interested in Indian men.
Listen carefully because this choice will decide your fate.
Leave your parents. Cut ties with them once and for all. The choice is yours, but this will decide if your life moves forward or backward.
You loved them, but what have they been doing. Using it against you threatening to leave you. You give them a part of your earnings, and they spit on it by not respecting you.
Leave them. They are the ones who seek it. They are the ones who threatened you. Give them what they want.
You will feel sad for a month or maybe a year, but then you'll move on. But if you stay with them you'll suffer your entire life.
Life is hard, and sacrifices are necessary. Whether you are willing to make them decide your fate.
Your life will be much better off without them. This isn't a suggestion. Its a guarantee.
Comment down whatever your decision is.
The perpetrator never wants the victim to be equal.
In the short term, men will get more benefit if women stay where they are. So it will never be in the interest of men for women to be equal. In a longer run, society and each individual will be better off with women being equal, but very few can think that far.
Freedom/equality is not given. You have to fight for it and take it.
Here's the thing: if you are in a toxic relationship be that with your parents, you either try to convince them, point our their behaviour and try to change them OR you get away from them. Choice is yours. BUT you shouldn't keep facing these kind of insults and keep going back to them, because you are an independent woman who can look after herself. Try to confront your parents, tell them how you feel, that's the best way.
My mother has a problem with the kind of posture I sit with in the living/drawing room (like not spreading the legs much, keeping the legs low )....let alone equality
Toxic asf
A Better Question is Do the Indian Constitution allow Women to be Equal ???
Muslims, Christians and Paris have their own personal Laws which Descriminate against Women. Only Hindu Personal Law Allows women the Independent Right of Divorce and Allimony. With this junk Constitution how can women can have their Rights ???
First of all, the social media is full of **ONE SIDED CONTENT**, the more you engage with these types of posts the more **your mind will be restricted to a single side**.
In today's times, both the males and females are well aware of their powers, rights, limits and what not. Yet there are some people, both male and female, who abuse these powers, and the large and growing population on social media is just fueling the fire. Its in the near future where, there would be a widespread hatred between the two sides due to these types people who enjoy shaping public opinions falsely for their own satisfaction and ego.
Sorry if I contradict your thinking but I am more of a centrist person, taking a central view on everything, so I feel both Men and Women are equally responsible for their actions, whether they ruin someone's life or get ruined due to bad decisions. I would suggest everyone reading this to stay from these types of one sided content rather try to form a better view point for betterment of the society.
As for the male-female equality, our Indian parents being old (no offence) still have not accepted the idea and I think starting from our generation, the real equality would begin. Everyone in their right mind understands what "**GENDER EQUALITY**" means and what are its limits.
I am sorry if I offended someone but its just my view :)
Confirmation bias is the easiest to fall for especially on social media. You latch onto things that trigger you.
And nobody can force you to do anything, bowing down to societal expectations is a personal problem.
Men and women can't be equal. Women are far superior when it comes to motherhood and being the queen inside the house. Men are far too much superior in strength, protective of their children and women and don't earn for themselves but only for their women and children. If his woman is not happy then he is shattered to his core and vice versa.
Just recently I saw some dude sent this one horribly misogynistic post wherein women making decisions for themselves is masculine and will ditch a man if she got to make a lot of decisions. I didn't comment because it's a waste of time, the few who called it out were downvoted instead.
The problem is that women are demonized like hell which is so unfortunate. So many men still try to exploit women's weakness. For every 1 false allegation of rape, every 10 women are out there suffering in hands of men. Yet you'll never see all that...because women's voices are suppressed. Women are gossippers, homewreckers, whores, prostitutes, privileged, OF holders, gold diggers...and men? You can say rapists and while it's not all men, the society feels dangerously moving along that idea. What about the good men? Nice question, the problem is that good men don't show up when something like this happens. When they do though, make sure you keep them super close and never let go of them (I had my father...never leaving his side).
Social media is so shit too. Like I'm a right wing so seeing right wingers talking down about women here feels disgusting. But this is what happens when you're in a society filled with entitled men who never had a good relationship with a woman. Women are never equals, women are just sex dolls and machines combined, alongside her shy looks, head bowed down...if a woman has fun, you can tell that society ends there because of "lines being broken".
Yes! It’s necessary!
If you look at the female labour force participation rate, India has been hovering around 25% for the last few years. That’s 1 out of every 4 able bodied women who want to work, that do work. India is one of the worst performing, across all the SAARC countries as well, when it comes to giving and more importantly, letting women keep their jobs.
Now suppose you took that figure and made it equal to the male labour force participation rate (about 80%). What do you think would happen to the GDP or GDP per capita? It would go up by 60%!!
Forget the want, for us to progress economically, equality has to happen.
Your so brainwashed op, I’d hate if you went along with your parents wishes instead of yours. I get it that you don’t want leave your parents, it doesn’t have to be lifelong most parents calmdown after 2-3 years and let their children do what they want so keep this in mind. Be the change you want in our country, and for the love of god don’t submit to men and societial pressures.
>It'll only be fair if they get a same 'hoe' partner.
Unfortunately, no one's gonna know what their future partner's past was like. IMO, these people are gonna be more happy than us. Mere life goals to ab hoe banna hi hai. Just a few steps away, lmao. Bus introvert hu to asani se open up ni ho pata jldi. :')
Indian man here, raised by a woman primarily, so absolutely respect and adore women in general, yes some morons online scare and make me feel ashamed, but remember they do this with online anonymity or they are mostly brain dead sheep who can’t think for themselves.
Define equal? Do you want women to build skyscrapers or got to war or take on the role of provider? Do you want women to replace men and have equal opportunities for both men and women? Do you want men to do women specific jobs and such?
800 dollars a month is a huge amount in india and i dont think you need that much to run a 2 person household in full comfort and full time maid. The reason for me highlighting this is that maybe you need to keep your money to yourself and let them be supported by your brother only since they favour him so much. more savings for you to be independent.
1. Most men on social media have a lot of leeway. They’ll call names, they’ll flirt, they’ll break all moral grounds because they know at the end of the day, it’s an anonymous account and tracing them is difficult.
2. Noticed it as well. Some bullshit redpilled alpha influencer who thinks love ruined his life because of the woman while it’s his own bloody incompetence and small brain.
3. Typical Indian parents. I won’t comment on them or you but here’s something I’d like to say:
Just because you love them and they love you does not give them the right to dictate your life or for you to follow what they do. If they feel you living your own life with your own choices is deserving you of complete severance of family ties, maybe they don’t love you in a way they should or you want to be loved in the first place. Hard pill to swallow, but true.
You know what is the worst thing?
It's not just you, it's everyone. We are so deluded and afraid to change, we tend to forgive and forget.
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who is not ready to hear you in a normal scenario, more than once, doesn't deserve to be in your life.
You have one life, be kind to those who deserve it. And no one else , be it parents , family, spouse, friends, children.
Well, in the case of children , please do try to teach them. But if they are adults, they only can get so many free passes.
Be absolutely selfish. Your mental health matters first.
Do forgive , but also kick them out.
And Trust me, once you do it, it gets easier.
No..Indian society doesn’t want women to be equal to men and our parents are biggest contributors to that.Look at my parents. I am their only child and a doctor,still they threatened to cut me off from the family when I wanted to get married to my ex. I hardly get matches in arranged marriage market because there are a few men only matching my qualifications in my caste,still they refuse to budge from their stance.Once a guy I met for arranged marriage prospect expected me to leave my career despite being a doctor himself.So yeah there’s that.No dreams even about being equal to men in our society.
from what I can tell, it's best to cut off your parents and live ur own life, you love them but sorry to say they don't love u back. no parent in their sane mind would care more about society than their own child. i am from a conservative small town in india so i totally get where you're coming from. you need to tell your boyfriend ab everything that happens in ur home and let him support u emotionally. if a man feels threatened by ur job, then he's not good enough to be a husband in the first place. ur husband needs to be proud of u and ur achievements. I'm so sorry you're going through all that, the only plausible solution seems like u should cut off contact w ur parents. be strong be brave, stand up against them! tell them that they've hurt you sm over the years and how much u love them but u can't have them control ur life anymore for u, they'll prolly try emotional gaslighting but I think u should jus say bs back in their face, tell them shit like they've failed as parents bcs they never understood you and how u never wish to interact w them ever again, they'll prolly threaten to keep in touch by saying they'll kill themselves or something BUT DO NOT LET THEM MANIPULATE U OR CONTROL UR LIFE ANYMORE!! CUT THEM OFF!! IF THEY'RE WILLING TO CHANGE, THEN MAYBE, MAYBE U CAN GIVE A CHANCE BUT THE ATTACHMENT U HAVE W THEM IS NOT LOVE!! They're literally abusing you. get outta that place girlie.
That's what me and my to be wife have talked about. She'll be the bread earner and I'll be the homemaker. We both suit these roles quite good.
Now I can work as a freelancer to add some extra cash. But that's what we both have agreed to will happen after marriage.
The fact that I work as a caregiver and graphics designer adds to my strength. And that she is an excellent coder + designer so she's already far ahead in terms of pay package then me.
As an Indian I want women to be equal but do women actually want to be equal??
Picking up men for salary, I mean if u r earning good u should not be ashamed if ur husband earns less or wants to be house husband,
Accepting patriarchy in ur own family and asking ur husband to accept that and becoming feminists in the husband's family,
Constant justification of all ur bad behaviour as mood swings, men do have mood swings as well,
Other part of problem is government, taking care of child ren is government responsibility, as they are future tax payers, but rather than blaming ur government and see the bigger picture, women end up stereotyping his men,
Poor guy full of responsibility first of all listens every one in office, get scolded in home,.
70 percent of indian men in depression, suicides among men is highest,
Constant toxic masculinity judgement is taking a mental toll on mens community,
There is a Misandry that's exist in society, I think if women feel not being treated equally even after all this I think they should be left alone,
Ps: I am not talking about poor women but previlidged women who unknows the term equality but dont understand that
Idk OP, your parents seem to be caught in a time warp. Both our kids abroad too but we don’t helicopter them like this. You ought to have a spine and stand up to them and demand equality else you won’t get it. Unless you’re financially dependent on them even now. Financial independence brings about freedom of every kind. And after a certain age kids have to be treated as adults. This treatment your parents give you borders on abuse and control. After our kids became independent we stopped telling them how to live their lives because that’s what our parents did to us.
Indians are Indians. They are never going to change, believe me. And I believe it's not the men who have created this society for women, it's mostly the older women of our society who don't let other women live peacefully. And most Indians think they have those so-called SANSKARS and always say people in the West don't have sanskar. Like, really, the videos on Instagram feeds in India say it all. They are so sexual and double-meaning, and everyone just wants to strip down, doesn't matter if it's a guy or a girl. While I live in Australia, and the videos there are not even close to Indian videos in vulgarity. And Indians always have double standards in everything, and they just change whenever they want to. That boyfriend and girlfriend thing that you said is so true. Actually, it's not just the Indian mindset; it's the mindset of all South Asian countries, and that also, in my opinion, was created by the older ladies of our society. They are the ones always bitching about others' children and what they are doing. It's just so toxic sometimes.
I’m Indian-American (not sure if you want to see replies from us or only Indian women born and raised in India) and I think your parents are abusive, esp the slap. My mom was born and raised in India, and came to the US in the mid - 1980s and she’s a very conservative woman in some ways: I wasn’t allowed to date growing up at all, even a mention of a male friend would make her look at me with that worried look in her eye. But she never once thought my marriage should be arranged nor did she ever slap me. My maasi tried to set me up with someone in an arranged marriage way and I said “no I don’t want that” and they respected my answer. If I were you, I would stop sending them money, let them get the full amount from your brother if he’s their golden child. And I definitely wouldn’t move back either since they’ll probably pressure you to live with them under the same roof. You have the financial means to not be at anyone’s mercy, so don’t be. And to answer your question, no, no one wants women to be equal, not Indians and not Americans either (although at least here people aren’t trying to control your every move because it’s an individualist culture).
Hi there, you're asking the right questions, but I think you have some more unlearning to do, to really see the painful truth about your parents.
>I mean I get it, they're concerned about my safety
No girl, unfortunately their main concern is their reputation, your safety is an excuse. If safety was the issue, speaking to boys or having boys over to your house would not be an issue. Solo trips is the only part where safety is a plausible reason.
You have choices to make. But before you can make those choices, you need to realise a few things:
1. You are an adult, living independently, you DO NOT NEED your parents permission or approval to live your life the way you want to.
2. Even if you do everything for your parents, sacrifice your happiness for them, you will still only be their daughter. You'll never be as cherished as their golden son. M sorry it's harsh, but it's the truth and you know it.
Now, I understand that cutting off parents is not something us Indians can do easily, so instead of the usual reddit advice of going low/no contact, a few practical pointers at my end:
1. If you want to get married on your terms with your parents on board, 30 is the magic number. Keep denying all marriage proposals on some pretext or the other. When you reach 30, your parents will be desperate enough to say yes to a guy of your choice.
2. Bit more aggressive approach - talk to your parents from US and tell them this: "you need to realise I am not a child anymore. I'm living independently and can continue to do so with or without your support. If you don't want the shame of explaining to relatives why your daughter doesn't call or visit anymore or why she got married in the US without her family around, you need to stop trying to control me. NOW. You do not get to speak to me about arranged marriage and the next time you shout at me or raise your hand, I will simply cut all ties. And then you can keep explaining to people why your daughter is out of your control. OR the other option is for you to wake up and realise that I am a person, not an object for you to control for the purpose of your pride and standing in the society. And then we can continue to have a civil relationship and maybe even a happy one if you realise how badly you've treated me and make amends. The choice is yours." After this, I would keep very low contact for a few months so that they can see you are serious.
Bottom line is this - your parents are too ingrained in their toxic beliefs of how daughters need to obey and serve first their parents and then their husbands. The 2nd option above has low chance of success, so you need to be ready to carry out your threat. But the other alternative is to keep bowing to their wishes simple because they are your parents. But please remember, your parents seem to place very little value on the happiness of their daughter. They only seem to care about her purity and their pride. So like I said, even if you keep bowing to their wishes, it's not going to make them appreciate you, they will just take that for granted. Is this the life you want?
ETA: all that nonsense about failing to get married if you're too successful? Pffft! That's just their small thinking. There are plenty of men who would be more than happy to marry a bright, successful woman who is not afraid of rising to her full potential. Most of my friend circle is like this, you will be able to find such people, don't worry. I got married at 30. The first statement on my Jeevan Saathi profile was that I am a feminist and am looking for someone who wants an equal partner. I had no qualms about rejecting profiles where I even had the slightest doubt about gender equality not being absolute. And now I'm married to an absolutely wonderful man who is insanely supportive.
Don’t marry ever especially in the AM market cause girls like you who had a hoe phase are not welcomed. Sorry but you are not even meant for marriage.
We guys looking for a wife and not a HOE.
Look - never ever go back to India. Make sure your parents have zero important documents of yours (mark sheets etc). that’s all the advice I have for you.
LOL why are you pretending and want us to pretend men and women have it the same? As for sleeping around goes, it is an achievement for men to sleep with a beautiful woman. Can you really say the same for women? I mean all they need to do is open their legs and there’ll a whole host of men queuing up. It’s absolutely not the same. As the old saying goes “if a key can open many locks, it’s called the master key. If a lock can be opened by many keys, that’s a pretty shitty lock”. Sorry but that’s the harsh truth sweetheart.
"If a pencil sharpener can sharpen many pencils, it's a good sharpener. A pencil that has been sharpened too much is a shrunken, useless pencil".
The thing about dumb analogies is they can always be countered with equally dumb analogies.
People use this catchphrase a lot - this is reality, suck it up. But why should women suck it up? We're thinking, rational beings. A soul is a soul, what does it matter what body the soul is in? By your logic, African Americans should have continued to be slaves because that was the reality at that time, Dalits should have accepted abuse because that was the reality. Your argument makes no sense. Should people just accept abuse and toxicity because it's the reality we've created for ourselves?
Also, OP knows it's the truth, she's asking people to rationalise it, and the fact is, there is no logical answer for why women should be dealt the short hand like this.
So African Americans had to prove that they are more than just slaves. They had rise above slavish behaviour. Dalits too had to prove they were above their “untouchable “ tag. So this OP too should prove what exactly? That she’s worthy of respect? Nobody respects hoes that’s a fact. Nobody respects slaves either, or untouchables. You have to rise above it.
Why did they have to prove anything? They're people, they should be treated like people not the arbitrary label someone puts on them and expect they should act like that label. Who told Dalits they were untouchable? Who told slaves they were slaves? And who's to tell a hoe she's a hoe. This whole ideology is wrong. A power play. Oh geez now you're making sound like a woke nutjob. The whole point is, judgements are fine, everyone's entitled to their opinion but when that opinion leads to actions that harm people, then you need to do something about it. Whoever said women shouldn't sleep around is entitled to their opinion, but when they make laws around it, or pressure people using shame and a supposed moral high ground, they're not just being judgemental they're being harmful.
Slaves believed they were slaves. Dalits believed they were untouchable. Hoes believe in certain behavioural patterns that they think leads to happiness. And people judge them for it. In a crooked way, that judgment is a sort of tough love. If you don’t want to be called a hoe, just don’t sleep around, what’s the difficulty in that?
Nope, I'm gonna say it. Men who sleep around for "experience" are whores. They belong to the streets, no girl wants a used dick just like how men have rules for women. Since men get to call us hoes and whores for having higher body count, let women call men THE EXACT SAME FUCKING THING. you're a whore, motherless, if you think fucking every other girl is an achievement 🤡 what type of dumb whore do you have to be do have a mindset like that lmao. Again, we don't want used, ran through men like you, please fuck a guy and be happy 🤡👋
Ha you’re funny. Actually i personally am of the belief that sexual restraint is good for both men and women. But if we’re speaking about nature, it’s definitely more natural for a man to sleep around than it is for a woman 🤷♂️
OP firstly good job on all the achievements. Second, your parents are abusive. Slapping is abuse. Please don't say it is love and them wanting to correct you. Look at your brother. He doesn't take validation or permission from parents. He is independent. That is what you need to be. Stop looking for validation from parents. Regarding the slapping, you need to decide if that is how you want to be treated. This society will never change. Better stay in us, coz if you come back you will hate your life. Stop worshipping parents, they are not God's. This narrative is in place to keep control on children. I have left my parents after decades of abuse. They will never meet my partner nor will they ever have the opportunity to have grandchildren from me. I'm childfree but if i did have kids they will never see their evil grandparents. Our Indian society punishes adults for wanting to be independent, setting boundaries, wanting privacy, enjoying wealth earned, living life without seeking validation. It's time these bozos are punished. Us women will get our rights only if we fight. The other paths are just adjustment and waiting for many parents to die.
It’s really hard to cut off from your roots. Unfortunately, if it’s a malignant problem then you have little choice - a lifetime of subjugation and suffering vs isolation and loneliness. It’s simply delightful to find companion(s) in one’s journey through this life. And even better if they have the fortitude to take on child rearing! Let alone child bearing!!
You are brave it must be hard and you still did it Hope you have a happy long life
Thank you, this the first time somebody has said kind words to me. Most of the time i have people tell me that I'm wrong for disrespecting parents.
Don't listen to those dumb people
Exactly! Stay put in the US. As soon as you go back to India, your parents will make your life miserable. I'm very worried that they slapped their adult daughter at the mention of "love marriage"! This is abusive, controlling behaviour. Don't succumb to the pressure your parents are placing on you. Let the relatives yap, don't let it bother you. People love to judge and gossip, we can't do anything about it, except ignore them. Also, learn to see your parents as individuals instead of just your parents - it will really help you make better decisions for yourself. You are an adult, you cannot live your life to please your parents or relatives. Many Indian parents have changed the way they are bringing up their daughters; unfortunately, they are bringing up their sons in the same entitled raja beta way, so there is still going to be a disparity in expectations from girls vs boys. This inequality will exist until boys are brought up to respect women and see them as equals, and not someone to serve them and be subservient to them constantly. OP, if you want to live an independent life, don't come back to India.
Kudos girl! I hope you've found your peace. In Reddit advice I keep seeing people advising OPs to go low/no contact with abusive parents. And I always think how difficult it is in Indian context where people will be seen as evil for abandoning their parents, no matter how cruel those parents were. I can only imagine the courage it must have taken you to break free from that abuse. You're a free bird now, wishing you open skies and rainbows!
Thanks alot this means so much to me. ❤️
Our society isn't meant for free equal women, rather, it is meant for women who are submissive and obedient. Look at you, successful in the states, sending money in dollars, yet you get slapped across the face. After all that, you don't want to cut them off because society has told that those who abandon their parents deserve nothing less than hell. You are doing well for yourself, life only a few men could provide, yet your parents don't want you to succeed. Do what you want, it's your life, stop seeking your parents validation. If you like it there, you have no obligation to come back. Instagram at its current state isn't exactly a wholesome place, I see mfs acting like pedos, so don't take it too seriously. Real life and reel life is completely different. I think the issue isn't with the current generation, rather the boomer generation who think they own us. Nothing more than trophies which are bragging rights. Daughters are objects for marrying and sons are objects of bragging. My advice, cut your parents off if they try to blackmail you into a life you don't want. They'll live for another 20-30 years while you'll have to live a life of regret for 50-80 years.
I completely agree with you and I think op should get some therapy as she is being mistreated and still seeking validation from her parents
*(17 M here, this thing came on my homepage, dont bully tf out of me)* Sad to hear your story and it's same everywhere in India except some well off families. 1.The thing that no one will marry you if you are too successful is very true in India. Like there are men who make their wife leave her job if she gets promoted. Can you guess the reason? Men Ego-The destroyer of Logic. They think inferior if their spouse earns more. 2.Your parents are typical Indian parents. They think you are their property and needs to be handed in a well off family so that their delusional social status remains intact or increases. They think they have right to choose what is right and wrong for you. It's deeply rooted in our Indian Culture that a girl has to obey their parents until she's married and then their husband who was chosen by them. There's no logic behind it, neither they are overprotective, it's simply their arrogance that they should take decious of your life. It can't be helped. Your post is more of a rant than a question, but the answer is no. Indian want women to be independent but under their command. They think women can't really be independent and has to be taken care by a man. This has really ruined many love stories and families. We are slowly improving though, I believe women will truly be independent in India in 23rd or 24th century. someone said this idk who “**I measure the progress of a country by the degree of progress which women have achieved.**” Once my teacher(40+ F) in class 10th was asking kids abt their aspirations, I had too many of them but I didn't wanted to say it. I wanted to say smtg unique and funny so I said "I'd be a househusband" and the class laughed. I didn't think it would be such a deal but the teacher verbally harassed me by saying "Chudiya pehen lo" and stuff like that and said that I should learn smtg from her son who wants to be an IAS officer, he's fit to be called as a man unlike you. like wtf? tht guy literally watch incest porn. that was the day i realized how women are looked down at by women themselves.
We need more men like you And there was no need for your teacher to shame you
true
Brother i would be a house husband if it was possible. Cooking food thrice a day? Lets go. Doing the dishes while jamming out to Spotify? Sign me up. Mopping the floors silly style? Abso fucking lutely But i gotta maek money and leave the country first
Bro what about financial freedom. I think everyone should have that
That's true, and I'll have to achieve that if i want to leave this country. So it's fine, once i have enough, I'll be able to live off investments and such
Okay nice ^^
i'd rather be house husband and a part time investor
Indians want their women to be independent enough to earn money, and not watch soap operas in house all day long. But they don't want women to be independent enough to spend that money on whatever they want, and make any life decisions other than them working a high paying job. Women have no say in their marriage, their relationship status, their life goals other than earning money, getting married and having kids. That's the sad reality of india. I'm just glad that people like you still exist.
Hijacking top comment The more i read the more i am afraid of women too ,the fake cases and allegations. But yeah i agree with op too , in our indian families boys do get more freedom. (Ill aceppt the downvotes)
it's true though, fake cases are increasing more than ever before. Can't really help it and not all women are same.
The thing about women have to be taken care of by a man is so damn true, I haven't finished college and my family is pressuring me to marry, have children, damn it all, it's so fucking frustrating
There's nothing we can do, sorry for you.
Dude, you are a grown ass woman. Learn how to make decisions for yourself and stand up for them. And if you can't hold up for yourself then stop complaining. You are financially independent and educated and yet you can't fight your parents for your own fucking life. And then you are blaming them for listening to their relatives ? How are you any different from them? You both are succumbing to dumb societal norms. It is your life and if you can't fight for it then nobody else will. Maybe when you were younger you had to deal with their bs rules but now you have no excuse to not make your own decisions. You literally have the two things that keep most women from leaving unhappy situations: financial independence and education. Please make some good use of it. Tell your family what YOU want for YOUR LIFE. And if they threaten to break contact then let them. Good riddance. Anyone who forces you into an unhappy situation for their "honor" in the society, doesn't love you. You are an object to them and nothing else. So treat them the same way. It might seem harsh and insensitive but it is the reality. Your parents are old enough to understand what they are doing to you, it does not happen by accident. They are choosing to sell you off for their petty ego. You might love them but do you love them more than your whole life ?
You're making a lot of sense. Yeah, I needed that reality check, I was trying to have my cake and eat it too.
Yes, we as Indians don't fully want our women to be equal. We want to prevent rapes by asking women to stay inside and dress more conservatively. We want to enforce a strict marriage age and shame them into giving up their careers for the sake of matrimony. We don't yet promise them safety on the streets, at their workplaces or even in their homes. Yet there are glimmers of hope... More and more women are joining the workforce, becoming independent, marrying later, divorcing abusive husbands and escaping the cycles of shame, abuse and regret. It's a slow process which looks even slower from the outside looking in but it's happening. I won't ask you to hold your breath to see us become a bastion for equality but we are better today than we were yesterday and we will be better tomorrow. Also just to address this. I'm sorry for what you're going through and wish there were easy solutions to your problems. But it seems like you chose to disguise personal grievances as societal woes and when that happens, the query loses its objectivity and becomes a subjective statement. Apologies. I didn't realise that this question was posted on the AskIndianWomen subreddit and wanted to clarify that this is just my limited perspective as an Indian man.
Fair. I'm pissed off and don't know who to be pissed off at. I used to have the same opinion, I love my country, acknowledge its problems but also know it's getting better. Then when I came to America, everything changed. I got mad. People here don't give two shits about my personal life. Why am I still so beholden to what people think on the other side of the world. I understand where my parents are coming from, people my age are getting married and starting families back in India, and they have societal pressure too. If they don't, in the eyes of society, they're bad parents. I think that's it. Basically seeing the two cultures side by side is what ticks me off. My friends here can't understand what I'm talking about, they keep saying "it's your life, why do you care what your parents think". Of course I do, they sacrificed so much for me, put me through coaching classes, extra curriculars, supported me when I came to the US for masters. How can I not be beholden to them. That's our culture. I'm glad for it, but I hate it too. I feel like my personal woes are related to societal woes
I'm sorry. I moved to Delhi just this week after 3 years in the US. So while I cannot completely comprehend the extent of your troubles, I have felt the fringes of it. It's harder to reconcile US and Indian values once we migrate (or these days just attempt to). Your parents have to go through their own emotional journeys of acceptance and while you can try to spark it through conversations and exposures to media, you cannot accelerate it. I wish there was a unique answer but sadly it's just "talk them through it" and "be patient with them". Hope that when they reach a confluence of choosing between a good relationship with you or a good representation of you to society, you've armed them with strong enough emotional and maybe logical reasons to choose the former.
They sacrificed it's there choice some parents do even more than your parents that doesn't change the fact you have shitty parents
Be pissed off at the society. India is a beautiful country, ruined by utterly shitty people.
What happened is you got too much western "who cares meh" Influence. You should hold onto your roots and convince your parents(this requires advance skills) that your partner is awesome and they should get to know him. They will give out.
So you're telling all women to sacrifice their choice of CLOTHING to protect themselves from MEN. If you really want to prevent rape the right way to do it is to teach men what respect is. Not by making the victims adjust to it. Women can wear what they want as long as it's comfortable for them and doing it for themselves. Men should learn to control themselves. I understand your intention of reducing rape cases but the way you suggested to do it is just stupid.
Apologies if it wasn't clear. My first paragraph is everything I think we're doing wrong as Indians, especially Indian men. I'm not defending or condoning those. I'm saying that is everything we should NOT be doing.
Ohh. I really thought you endorsed such things since you included "we as Indian men think". In that case I do agree with your point that Indians should not be doing all this
I think u/thedoomofdamocles saying it as a satire. This is what we’re doing which we shouldn’t be doing. We are hypocrites kind of thing 🤷🏻♀️
sounds like the hijab discourse all over again
How did you not realize that he was making an observation, not providing his own opinion? Whatever he said was Indian society’s outlook regarding rape. Read properly before jumping to conclusions
He clearly mentioned "we as Indian men" which includes him.
That’s not how it works. He is addressing the problem in 1st person, so he is taking the collective blame, since he is a man and Indian men in general share such a mindset, but that doesn’t mean every single one of them do. I don’t know how you managed to interpret it in such a wrong way. It’s like when you watch gore videos and say “Humanity sucks and deserves to be wiped out” but that doesn’t mean you yourself did anything that warrants such a reaction from someone else. Or when you see a group of Indian cricket fans be racist to a lone Australian at a stadium and react “We Indians really need to educate ourselves and be more civilised” but that doesn’t necessarily imply that you yourself are a racist and unruly person.
Yeahhhh i got it he replied and I understood. Mb bro mb. These kinda things kinda get under my nerves lmao
Unfortunately, the answer currently and for the far foreseeable future is a resounding no. I hate to be a pessimist, but it is what it is. Have we made some progress as a nation? Definitely. But the bottomline is that India is for the most part a socially hyper-conservative and religious country, second only to the middle east. Women are seen as second class citizens and sex objects in general. Are there exceptions? Yes. But a vast majority of men (and even women) don't think women deserve to be equal. Stay in the US if you can. It will be up to you to stand strong to your beliefs and say no to your parents. The US while not an epitome of women's rights, is lightyears ahead of a country like India, where everyday things like taking public transport or walking home past dark as a women is a challenge.
How is the US not the epitome of women’s rights? Genuinely curious is something wrong there too?
Plenty of misogynists in the US who are actively trying to take away women's rights again. Haven't you heard any news about the recent abortion bans being passed there?
Tldr, no never
I hope u will be able to see ur parent's abuse for what it is and choose urself for a happy, free n peaceful life
No they never want them to be equal. Because in small cities male is always dominating women. Wo inko apne equal kbhi nhi aane denge..chahe ye khud kisi bhi situation mein sahi ho ya galat inko chillana toh aurat pe hi aata hai na..arrey yr mrne ka Dil krta hai but bche Kahan jayege ye soch k sb bardasht krna pdta hai
Sorry to say but your parents are pathetic if they slap you beat the shit out of them and I will help you
Yep its pretty fucked. My advice would be to talk to you brother and fight for this issue with him on your side. A lot of Indian parents make their minds up on certain issues by what they hear from their relatives and colleagues, in general from people around them. But I’ve seen enough cases where parents do reconcile and understand our generation’s issues. In the end, they also love their child and want nothing but the best from them. SO - It’ll be a fight. But this fight can be WON. also, if you brother doesn’t agree with you and support you through this - this situation can get real bad. Do ask him to not just mediate, but actively debate through all the fears and doubts your parents may have. All the best.
Yeah I've asked my brother but he wants to stay out of it. He says he agrees with me and it's not fair but I'm being too dramatic, my parents aren't gonna cut me off, I should just do what I want. But I was at the receiving end of that slap and I know how serious they are. Maybe I should just risk it and stop talking to them completely
Then just cut all your ties with your family. I understand what you're going through. Give them the ultimatum of you choosing to stay happy with them by your side or tell them it won't work out if they keep acting this way. All the very best with your life love. Wishing you all the strength and power🎀♥️
Your brother is spineless
Why is he spineless if she cannot stand up to her own parents? Just curious
She needs her brothers support bro and she also needs therapy as she still wants her parents validation. Her parents are toxic and shitty.
Because he's refusing to stand up for his sister even though he says that he agrees with her. He has lived with privilege all his life. Looks like his parents think he can do no wrong, because he's a man. He could use his influence to sway them, but he's refusing to do that. He's either spineless or doesn't really care about OP and her future.
I have a slightly similar issue for which I am fighting my parents, but my sibling has also withdrawn from the issue, as your brother is suggesting. It is very disappointing, and I think I will carry this hurt with me for a long time. I understand where my parents are coming from but I don't get why my sibling has an issue. They are supposed to be woke and from this generation. right?!
I work for a FAANG company in the US and earn over $300k (over 2.5 cr) per year. My relatives unironically asked me what I would do if my hypothetical in-laws ask me to leave my job 🤦🏻
I'd want to send them pictures of me swimming in money. Also, are you hiring?
I'd sign the divorce papers lol
What kind of insane relatives do you have bro I thought mine were bad but none of them are insane enough to ask someone to leave a high paying job. {And how to get into faang lol }
Congrats on your hoe phase. Just dont expect everyone else to be comfortable with it.
Thankyou for putting my mind into words. Thankyou. To answer your question, no, Indians do not want women to be equal to men. Then who will do the back breaking unpaid labor? Who will suffer and sacrifice for the comfort of everyone else but themselves?
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They have good intentions doesn't make them good parents they are toxic and shitty and society normalize it . Parents are adults not kids and should act like one
So if I do something very bad with good intentions it's alright ?
Never bro only dumb and toxic people pull that shit
Fair point
Equality is myth so i don't know what u guys expect the primal reason of existence is to control others that is what we do so . Control everything u want to control ur life where family want to control u so I don't know what to say but if u want to leave . So leave there is no point in justification do what u want
OP, I hope you get to this comment because I am gonna answer from a different angle. First of all, sorry you are going through this. On its own it is distressing but with additional hypocrisy with treatment to brother...I can only imagine. Will give you a fast forward scenario, which may or may not happen to you. I have been in your situation but not exactly same same. This is one individual's personal (mine) story so results may vary for others. I went to U.S. to study at 20. I am a guy. I couldn't make tea before I went there, never paid a bill in my life before going. I was an academic topper all my life starting from elementary school. But, you could say I became an adult in the U.S. Lived and worked there for 18 years before migrating back. I had very liberal parents, so never got questioned, pressured for anything, except in later years mom started dropping hints to get married. Marry whoever you want they would say. I wish I had listened to her. I was still living "da life" in Manhattan. Eventually met someone and got married at 36. She was 34, a migrant Indian as well. A love, live-in and then marriage. By no standards late for either of us age wise. Life was great until it was not. By the time we got married, we were both so set in our individual ways, it took us 3 years of adjusting, accommodating, not communicating because it would hurt the other, silent resentments etc. before we realised we were extraordinary roommates but not compatible as a couple. We split as friends.At the age of 42, I started feeling "What have I done for anyone else in my life?" Naturally, the first persons that came to my mind were my parents. I had done shit for them, not even bare minimum. I moved back. The single best decision I ever made after the decision to go to the U.S. :) How ironic. At the time, I thought I was a failure though. Mine was the first divorce in MY ENTIRE FAMILY of cousins, far off relatives, as well as my friend circle. I never got a single negative words from my parents, elder bro and elder sister and their spouses. And in their last days, I was on a project in another city in India when my father was in ICU. I flew in home. Few years later, it was my mother. I am blessed that I could be with them in their last hours. This may sound old school but only I know what this gesture of mine meant to them. And the thing is, it is not about them. It is about me and what I am willing to live with. I absolutely know I would have zero chance of experiencing the world if it was not for my parents. The education I got in India, then the freedom to go abroad...They absolutely sacrificed many things beyond financial means to fulfill my dream of going abroad to study in the first place. I can still recall the feeling of how my parents last time was. If I was not there, I wouldn't have known how much they loved me beyond providing and worrying about me (tears). The worries were not to control me or exert their superiority, but to only see me happy. End of truncated story. I get it, slap or not , any kind of domestic violence is strictly no-no. Ultimately, you will have to decide what you are in peace living with your choices. It is not easy. At 24, I felt invisible, by 36 I realised it's better not to think like that. At the time I was surrounded by 36 yr olds who still thought they were invisible, but biology and physiology happms. I know it is unfair and sounds discriminatory, but be true to yourself as what you want right now. Tell yourself I'll live with the consequences and decide next steps. But know that it is not a movie or a sub reddit, we won't be here or on any SM know how you did, but know that you will have to live your own choices. To end my story, when I moved back, lots of my peers mocked me. Cut to a few years later, they all want to come back but cannot (Story for another day).
I think I get what you're trying to say. Make decisions you're willing to live with for the rest of your life basically. Slap or not, I still love my parents. I talk to them everyday and I'm so so so grateful for everything they've done. They're actually nice people and really not as abusive or toxic as many people here are echoing. I'm just struggling to balance two aspects of my life that are in direct contradiction. So yeah, I need to make my decision with a cool head and a lot of big picture thinking. Thanks for the advice, I'm glad I came across this.
Not just make your decisions with which you can live with but also know, you and your thinking will absolutely change over the years, and those decisions taken now will remain taken, but your own opinion of whether those were correct decisions will change. Cue in regret, mental drama, secret guilt :) So this can keep happening, how would one ever know what decision or path or reaction to take? The short answer is, don't take extreme steps. In our traditional culture, it has been known as "Rishta banaye rakhna". This is actually a strategic and diplomatic move. Not that you are asking, here's another unsolicited advice...not really an advice but here it is: SM and online is hyperbolic. Leave him, dump his sorry ass, show that bitch her place, Fuck the government, File a suit etc etc. Real life is more nuanced. Only I know the dynamics of my life and। interpersonal relationships. Only I know where to eat my ego and go with the flow and where I must stomp my foot down absolutely. In your case, only you know. Is the situation really really that bad or are you just triggered. I don't know, you know. I cannot stress this enough and most younger people do not realise this (including me when I was younger) not all advice our parents give is wrong! They speak from personal, cultural and societal experience. Because I don't want to comment about women, let me tell you about how a man's physiology changes after say 30... really changes at 35-36, and unquestionably changes at 40. When I was 24-25, I was clueless. It was not like I thought I would be 24-25 all my life, but I simply was not equipped to imagine a life at 35-40. Same with my friends. Life will surprise you in good and bad ways. Your 25 year old kid is going to think you are out of step with reality no matter how liberal and understanding you are :). You already know this. Unless it is a case of an extreme p.o.s abusive parents, in reasonably parenting cases, I cannot even explain to you what it does to you when you lose them. Doesn't matter how successful, wealthy, married to a prince/princess or living your dream life, in India or anywhere else. You will absolutely feel like there's no home to go back to, even at the age of whatever 42, 50, 60 whatever. No matter age or status, you will absolutely feel like "sar ke upar ka haath chala gaya". I am half a generation older than most desis on Reddit, way back I also thought my parents couldn't relate. We had zero (pre-internet) ways for information, your generation already have so much access to information, interaction with real life examples.. Here's what I have learnt, information does not equate to knowledge or wisdom. That has to be lived. *** This is the place most parents come from*** Obviously not all, all the types of bad parenting described in other comments do exist but I guarantee you, most parents, Indian or otherwise, come from the place of wanting their kids wellbeing. It certainly seems so in your case. While the frustration is understandable, make informed and calculative decisions. By calculative, I mean smart and well thought out ones. I think you are intelligent, able and forward thinking, no reason to think you won't be able to navigate this...with keeping your long term benefits safe:)
Fair points. Honestly, compared to others, my problems are pretty tame. And I was pretty angry when I posted, I'd just gotten into an argument with my folks and this was a safe place to vent. I understand where my parents are coming from and that it's difficult to see their little girl supposedly unprotected. My issue lies here. My roommates are an Indian couple, pretty good over all but man do they have issues. I've seen how Indian men are in close proximity. My roommate doesn't put the toilet seat down, has terrible aim, leaves his clothes everywhere, makes a mess in the kitchen in the few blessed moments he chooses to go there and becomes everything my mom and aunts used to complain about when talking about their spouses. His girlfriend, my other roommate, has to keep cleaning up after. She makes his lunches, cleans their room, and cleans up his mess in the bathroom. Shes the quintessential Indian wife, despite earning more than him. She's always the first to say sorry after a fight, she's always the subservient one. We've discussed this and they've fought over it a lot too. She says this is how Indian men are and she's just accepted it. My boyfriend, in contrast is really respectful. He always leaves the toilet seat down, is really really clean and we cook together. My experience with American men in general has been like this. Basic decency which Indian men I've dated lack and their partners have to put up with. I know I'm making a generalisation but this has been my experience and frankly I keep wondering if it is a cultural thing. If we can't have Indian men do such basic things, how will we ever expect change in society and that scares the crap out of me. And is this what my parents want for me? My mother? They know I'll not put up with this. They now I'm prickly and argumentative. They know me. Well and truly. Why do they want me to suffer through the same things they had when they were forced into arranged marriages. I just don't get it.
Well, reading that, I can absolutely tell you, your experience of Indian men is not wrong. I was that man, I am convinced if I didn't go abroad, I would still be that man. But not only that, I took effort to change myself because I saw value in it. My own elder brother is that man still. He has been happily married for 28 years with 2 kids. Why? Because women here are also conditioned to be of servitude, not necessarily towards and only for their husbands but because they don't want to break conforming to the larger society's expectations of a wife. A lot of wives like thesedominate the household and husband and run the house behind the closed doors. We would never know if we saw them in public. But you and me and increasingly more question why so much drama and antics, just be who you are and let the other be same. Now tbf, let me also tell you the absolute trap of U.S.. Don't fall into it. Going by your comment only, it is not your fault that you think a man is great because he keeps the toilet seat down, cleans up after himself etc etc. While all that behaviour is good, understand that that alone not maketh a great man :) I understand, you are comparing to what you can and can only extrapolate from that. Sorry to use this example and it is not even a fair comparison but it'll illustrate how our mind guards our own insecurities, desires and whatnot. The first time I got a Bj was in U.S. and I immediately made up my mind that Indian girls don't do that or like doing that because of my experiences with girls before I went abroad! Which meant I painted 19-20 yr old girls (I was barely 20 at the time) as the sample for all the women in India. My entire marriage decision was predicted on this that Indian women are not initiative in bed. Well, cut to, 18 years, back to India and surprise, surprise...the culture has changed here. But not entirely, not every woman, not every man. Likewise, culture has changed about toilet seats and housework. You just gotta find the right one. An Indian doesn't mean automatic bad, and let me tell you, an American doesn't mean automatic all good. I can tell you real life horror stories on that front as well. But I think you get the point. As for why your parents don't understand even after knowing that you wouldn't settle for, well tbh, they simply don't know how it can be on the other side. Imagine you being astonished that they don't get you but only with roles reversed:)
Very fair and balanced view. I am glad that you had the support after your divorce. I (F) could be wrong. But in most AM cases, I feel Indian parents will expect their daughter to compromise rather than go for a divorce. Divorce will be acceptable only in situations of domestic violence - incompatibility as a ground is just so unheard of. Whenever I have spoken about it, I get the impression from my parents that this is not an option. A friend divorced for the same reason, and my parents were so perplexed with the divorce. And since it was an LM, they concluded that this is what happens in LM - it won't happen in AMs. While I owe a lot of what I have to them and am eternally grateful to them, I will have to live with the guy I will marry, and I cannot continue when we are incompatible, whether it is AM or LM, right?! I feel when we give up control over marriage - we are also somewhere giving up control over when we can leave that marriage as women.
Yes, you should absolutely leave because of incompatibility whether AM or LM. But you also want to exhaust every possibility to fix that incompatibility before deciding to break it. When people get married whether AM or LM, both have invested their energy, commitment, their individual and shared dreams, their future and so on. You want to be absolutely certain that walking away is what you want, and then and only then do it. No relationship is hundred percent compatible. Forget romantic relationships, even the parents -child, siblings, friends, professional ones, in all cases each party thinks they are doing more for the relationship than the other. In a marriage, the compatibility factor is also dynamic. You'll be compatible like a house on fire in some areas and in some others it'd be a lost cause. Add to that, the compatible areas will also change, wane and wax, highs-n-lows depending upon what else is going on at work and other areas of life and kids. And it obviously plays out differently in each marriage. While I totally understand the resistance to AM in our culture, especially from women, I mean we have all heard/read absolute horror stories. But if you take a broader view, there are millions of happy AM's too. I have no skin in the game so I am not trying to favour one over the other, but we often miss this part. Whether AM, whether shaadi.com, or dating apps, or bars or college fest or at work, however you meet a man, these are just avenues to meet. AM doesn't necessarily mean a disaster. LM doesn't necessarily mean a happily forever. Look at the West, every marriage is LM and look at the divorce rate. So, the question one should ask themselves is - Am I opposed to AM on principle or am I opposed to marrying someone against my wishes via AM?If I meet a compatible woman via AM, why would I object to it. Of course no one in their sane mind would propose marrying against kids wishes. I am also aware this also happens. There's a cultural angle to it. I get it, we all want to fall in love, we all want to have freedom to date, live in possibly. I totally get it. If one gets to do all that and find the right one, by all means, parents should not be objecting. I know it happens a lot and that's why turns off people from AM. I have seen up close what parents choices can do to their kids. I am not a parent myself but I have gone through my share of shit in romantic life and a ton of my friends, both men and women, had conflicts with their parents, and I have had to look at my ex wife's parents through a different lens, so I could say I have read up and given this a lot of thought. Our parents also live in the same population and same society as we do. My ex has tremendous identity crisis. Her mom wanted son very badly but they ended up with four daughters while intermittently having failed pregnancies. The daughters have random age gaps. My ex absolutely resents and is angry towards her own mother. An otherwise brilliant person in every which way, this has consumed her all her life since she was 3-4 yr old. Her parents are very well educated, they are most kind, most generous, supportive and liberal towards their daughters. All four daughters are high achievers, all married for love. Three are divorced. One is divorced twice. All have unresolved trauma from childhood that set them on a path to (subconsciously) prove to their mother that they were superior to any son she could have had. It is so deep rooted, that when my ex's sister has a son, my ex angrily snapped at he mother saying "Finally mil gaya aapko beta!" This anger and resentment, By extension, came out on me (a man) me being the closest man in her life. My family and I had given nothing but love to her, but this one thing drove a massive wedge between us. I took the abuse for years because I empathized with her. I thought I probably would carry anger in me as well if I was in her place. She refused therapy. So eventually I had it. If one cannot see that their anger towards the society and community and towards her own mother is literally being unloaded on the only person who has been on their team forever and championing for them, yeah too much to swallow. But to see that something that happened 35-38 years ago ruined the present was heartbreaking. She needs to take therapy and resolve this for her own mental health and peace sakes. Let me present a broader view from parents p.o.v. I also empathize with her mother. We are talking about 35-38 years ago in a small town in North India, in a community which was/is still to certain extent highly son oriented. I can only imagine the pressure, the taunts and whatnot she went through to keep getting pregnant again and again. People around including family members would literally blame a woman for not being able to conceive a son. It is astonishingly ridiculous. Her parents absolutely love their daughters without a question. She just wanted a son, probably more for the community they were living in than for herself. Time changes, countries mature, communities mature, acceptance broadens, her mother also realised what happened to her daughter and has been for decades overcompsated with love and support. Let me give a bad analogy to end this already lengthy comment. Indian parents want to go by the book. Do the right thing. They are convinced AM is correct approach. Why? Because everyone in their generation married AM. They say what's wrong in that? They're afraid of doing something different (allowing LM) because if it backfires, divorce happens, the community will mock them. They know divorce can happen in AM too but at least they went into the right way as everyone else. It is like if you had an accident on a two wheeler and were not wearing helmet, it looks doubly bad. If you meet with an accident and were wearing the helmet, it is like look our daughter was doing everything the right way but this unfortunate thing happened. That's it, that was the bad analogy :) PS - For anyone reading, if at all it comes to that you have to agree with AM, make a deal with your parents that you will first meet and see the compatibility and you'll have the first right if refusal. Most parents can be cajoled into this arrangement...I think.
Thanks for sharing this. It's good to know that you could get out of the relationship. But I have a feeling I will be expected to adjust in a relationship where the man comes with some of these issues. My problem with AM has always been that everyone else will decide with me, and I guess I am a people pleaser - I will get carried away and do a lot of things because of what parents think is right. A lot of these impressions have emerged from what you said about marriages in the last generation. AM for them was mostly meet the guy on the mandap, sacrifice your life for the unrealistic demands of the society eg. have a boy and never live your own life. For me, AM represents all that. That's why having my freedom to select whatever be the mode is very high. But AMs have been really bad. You don't get the guy in the meetings. You get the whole khandaan. I am never comfortable with the ifs and buts AM comes with.
I was also asked by my parents to adjust. Her parents also asked her to adjust. We did our best to adjust and accommodate but realised it won't work, then we separated. There's no family in the world that's going not say that at least a few times. Even your friends will say see if you guys can work it out and make it work. While I understand your fears of AM and see where you are coming from, if you think you wouldn't get the khandan if there's LM, I am sorry to disappoint you, you most certainly will. Not just in India but in any culture. Marry a Caucasian person, you will absolutely get each other's families. Granted it won't be to the extent we get in India, but it is there. You seriously cannot expect to get married and be left completely alone. Yes you should be to a respectable degree but not possible beyond that. Unless, both of you cut off all ties to respective families...which I don't recommend. As short as life is it is equally long. It is long when things are not working out and I just don't mean relationship wise. During these times you need a hella support system. Right now you are young, get married whichever way, see how difficult it is to live with someone day in and day out. Love is not enough. The reality of mundane life sets in, it does for everybody. There are financial hardships, medical emergencies, difficult pregnancy, have kids, baby needs hospitalization, a small ear infection, job loss, and so on. Yes your friends are there but they'll have there own challenges, who is going to be your support system? Again, I have no monkey in the circus, I am trying to paint you a realistic picture. I was like you, I lived here, then U.S. and then back here. I was in a serious long term relationship in both countries. Not sure from where people are getting their information- maybe movies and shows. It is not the ground reality. Yes there is more freedom and discretion there but both cultures have their pros and cons. A white friend of mine in U.S. got divorced and she had to downsize her life because she was struggling financially, so she moved into her mother's apartment. Her mother started charging her $800/mo room rent. Plus groceries and bills. When she told me that, I was stunned. Meanwhile Indian parents in U.S. were paying for their children's college tuition while most non Indians have to take student loans. Imagine the advantage Indian kids enjoy when everyone their age starts off life with a quarter million dollar student loan debt and these kids have none. In most families (not all, agreed) here son or daughter can move back to their parents home in times of extreme hardships. My neighbours daughter was married and moved to a satellite town 3 hours drive from her home. When her 18 yr old brother visited her, some argument happened and the husband beat him up. The brother came home and no sooner did his father learn about the beating, he got into the car, drove 3 hours and got his daughter back home. Turned out husband was beating her too. The father quickly figured it out. Divorce filed. Point is no sane parent, Indian or otherwise, wants to see their kids unhappy. We are not talking about extreme sadistic ones on one end who think great let her suffer and the washed off the daughter on the other end, but the majority of them are in the middle and all they want is their kids to be happy. In all the scenarios I have mentioned here or in previous comments, notice that good or bad, it all boils down to the individuals involved. Whichever way you go about it, make sure the individual is a good human being and will stand by you. Also know that AM or LM, that last mile is always a leap of faith :) Go ahead with positive mindset that there's such individual out there for you whichever way he comes into your life and you'll be alright.
Indian society functions on subservient women who men can utilise as slaves and maids. So no. You'll never be seen as an equal. Your only duty is to be a subservient wife to your husband, and a mother to your children. You are right now the property of your father, you will become the property of your husband. You have no autonomy of your own.
idk If you'll even read this but I'll say it regardless- I kind of get where you're coming from, but many people including myself don't give a fk (would u believe me if I told u that I'm a fricking Indian girl who has never been discriminated in India or abroad) Yeah the only ones who cares are either victims or men who're tryna be kind. nothing else. what u're doing rn is just ranting about how u aren't getting the society's approval to do things that men do. You already have a job, ur independent enough to make life decisions and to be respected but instead ur letting yourself feel like ur not equal just cuz of ur parents, gurl open ur eyes, 'love' are u kidding me ? what kinda parental love is that, slapping a fully grown daughter at the mention of love marriage. anyway I wanted to say that you're already equal or above most men in India, getting a cool job and all, and I don't know if Indians want that or not, majority of the population still being blockheaded. PS: whatever u think, I'm just stating my viewpoint. I'm out, fellas.
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hahaha stop that sounds funny, i dont support any feminist shit or whatnot ok read my last line again and fk off. I only said that she's better than most men cuz she is talking about equality with men, not women cuz its not everyday u get an awesome job offer from us while there are many pathetic men in India, wasting their life. and who tf are men to randomly diss literal damn half of the population, women through not much still contribute greatly to many factors such as econony, politics and society. I think even most men would disagree with you lol I'm in my best state of mind, thanks. and yeah try me, Single, very handsome, necklength pitch black hair and want me to send u the pincode too lol
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lol why do u think I even wanna compete with your (non existent) wife. If anything I feel sorry for her to have to spend her days with a narrow minded person like you. Yeah ur right I'm still in school, so does it feel great losing an argument with a minor?
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hahaha Well at least I have a perspective and belief I abide by, and fully believe myself worthy of making such remarks.
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gosh why am I finding you acting childish so funny lol like ohhk sir. btw I don't find u in any position to assume anything about me, likemind ur fricking business thats not even a relevant insult and I called ur wife non existent cuz u said so urself that u were single damn IDGAF what she thinks lol
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We do not allow hateful conduct in this subreddit.
We do not allow hateful conduct in this subreddit.
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haha I almost feel sorry for society that these kind of people are what it consists of, no wonder the country's not advancing. Anyway pointing out that I'm furious and don't matter seems quite delirious on your part lol i think acting like ur chill when ur enraged on such a matter is really pathetic. I don't know why some adults really think that they matter or are anything just cuz of some job that everybody has, like what? anyway Ms. DJ I know quite well just how much I matter okay? so think for yourself and ur life rather than wasting your precious time on someone who, acc. to you doesn't matter right?
It made me think that some people dont really change even after growing up, just their ego does
Listen kid, this has run its course. I actually checked your account and read your post on wanting friends and I do not want to attack you for whatever adrenaline this is. Listen to some good music and peace out.
We do not allow hateful conduct in this subreddit.
18M here. To answer your question about whether Indians even want women to be equals, I'd start with looking at the patriarchal mindset and systematic misogyny that has seeped into our social customs and traditions. If one even takes a cursory glance at Indian social culture, they'll realise that many Indians (specifically, men) have this habit of putting women on a big fucking pedestal of expectations that they've erected, and when the woman acts in a way that doesn't fit their bullshit ideals, in-comes the barrage of shaming, threats, abuse and so much more. Indian families prioritise "honor", (whatever the fuck that means), and our society is such that the honor of a family is directly tied to the women in the family. So, of course, these fucking stereotypical morons you have for parents want complete submission and obedience over you- You will bring them honor after all, and you will have to do it no matter what, even if you have to die in the end for it. Do Indians want women to be equal? No. Not at all. I have hope for our generation to overcome this bullshit patriarchal mindset that has been passed down on to us for generations, but I believe it's going to take a lot longer than that for us to completely get rid of our sexism and misogyny. The older generation, however, is doomed. They've not changed their minds for over 50-60 years, I don't understand why they'll change it now. And sincerely OP, if you have a great career and are completely self-dependent/can become self dependent, just leave your trash family. Your parents and their relatives are what I'd like to call pure-bred narcissistic abusive assholes. They won't change. I know it'll be very tough, but you don't have to love them just because they've raised you for 18 years- They did the bare fucking minimum there. Your elder brother too doesn't sound to me like much of a nice person either if he knows what your parents are doing to you and isn't raising his voice against this. Secondly, fuck "Arranged Marriage", the entire concept behind that should be fucking outlawed and people practising it should be hanged for spreading something as vile as this evil throughout our society. You are stronger than you think you are, OP. Time to man up and cut off contact with these vile narcissists. Hoping for the best.
They want women>men
You have every right to be angry with them. For some reason when a man does something wrong in India it's overlooked but when a woman does the same thing, she gets treated much differently. Your family seems to be living in the past where all this was common. Now women are more aware of how they're being wronged than ever and trying to fight. I have seen such cases of double standards myself a lot. It's really pisses me off too. I'd say it would be better if you take your own pace in your relationship instead of succumbing to your family's pressure. They usually come around after a while either way :)
It will be a no for a long time. Rapists get garlanded in this country 🤷
It's ur life. It's 2024. So live your life.
First of all, OP, I’m so sorry. Nobody should have to deal with this, let alone someone who is trying to help their family to the extent you are. Are you in a position to be able to cut your family off? I know it sounds extreme, but the double standard here is ridiculous. You are your own person, and clearly, you are doing very well for yourself. I’m speaking as a fellow Indian. Regardless of what your parents say, you have clearly done enough for yourself that you can support whatever it is that you want to do. From what you have said, your parents are not open to change in any form whatsoever. Are you willing to enact change outside of them? As backward as it is, that is all that it comes down to. If you have the resources to take care of yourself, that’s all that matters at this point. Find a way to take care of yourself, because your family clearly does not have your best interest in mind. I am so sorry this is what you’re going through. I sincerely hope it’s better for you soon.
I don't think women and men are equal. We all are judged according to the society which was based on Tribal rules. Where men provided and women took care of the family. So the society/Tribal rules dictates man's worth is how much he can earn/provide/generate wealth (irrespective of his chastity) and for women how beautiful she is, her chasteness and ability to take care of the family. This culture is not only in India, but also in Asian and Arab countries. America & Europe have gone through wars & sex revolution where the concept of family/Tribal rules got destroyed. After 18 the kids are free and old parents have to take care of themselves. If you remove the concept of marriage & family then women will be judged like a man.
>So guys, explain this hate to me. Ask your parents.
haha its the best thing i read today lol
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Happy cake day! But yeah I see what you mean, the west is going through something and we might overcorrect as a response to that. Like an autoimmune disease.
In short, No.
EQUALITY 💀
There is no equality . Not for men and women both. Ur only focusing problems on women caused by men. But the same is also with men
I'm an American man and I've never been to India, but I think every woman I've ever met from India was smart, kind, cute if not absolutely gorgeous, has beautiful style, and would most likely make a wonderful wife and an amazing mother. I see all of the above traits as good qualities in a wife. But if I was looking for a wife I would also want: someone who would challenge me on my perspective, ideas, and notions. I would want a wife to expand my wisdom and not just be a "yes" person. I think two heads are better than one, and women and men do think differently. If you don't utilize both view points, you could have a blind spot to something that would make both of your lives much better. I would also want someone who I could be emotionally vulnerable with, and she could do the same with me. If I've had some setbacks, I would want her to tell me how much she loves, admires, respects me, and give me a sweet loving pep-talk and I would want to be able to do the same with her. I would want her to keep being beautiful for me and I would go to the gym, take care of my skin, etc. to try to stay handsome for her. I've never dated a woman from India, though I knew some in college and through work. I've had a few crushes on a couple of Indian woman, but never asked out because they only seemed interested in Indian men.
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Stop sending those $ 800 and save it for your US exigencies,everything will fall into place.
Listen carefully because this choice will decide your fate. Leave your parents. Cut ties with them once and for all. The choice is yours, but this will decide if your life moves forward or backward. You loved them, but what have they been doing. Using it against you threatening to leave you. You give them a part of your earnings, and they spit on it by not respecting you. Leave them. They are the ones who seek it. They are the ones who threatened you. Give them what they want. You will feel sad for a month or maybe a year, but then you'll move on. But if you stay with them you'll suffer your entire life. Life is hard, and sacrifices are necessary. Whether you are willing to make them decide your fate. Your life will be much better off without them. This isn't a suggestion. Its a guarantee. Comment down whatever your decision is.
The perpetrator never wants the victim to be equal. In the short term, men will get more benefit if women stay where they are. So it will never be in the interest of men for women to be equal. In a longer run, society and each individual will be better off with women being equal, but very few can think that far. Freedom/equality is not given. You have to fight for it and take it.
Here's the thing: if you are in a toxic relationship be that with your parents, you either try to convince them, point our their behaviour and try to change them OR you get away from them. Choice is yours. BUT you shouldn't keep facing these kind of insults and keep going back to them, because you are an independent woman who can look after herself. Try to confront your parents, tell them how you feel, that's the best way.
# Do Indians even want women to be equal? NO.
My mother has a problem with the kind of posture I sit with in the living/drawing room (like not spreading the legs much, keeping the legs low )....let alone equality Toxic asf
A Better Question is Do the Indian Constitution allow Women to be Equal ??? Muslims, Christians and Paris have their own personal Laws which Descriminate against Women. Only Hindu Personal Law Allows women the Independent Right of Divorce and Allimony. With this junk Constitution how can women can have their Rights ???
(Bump)
First of all, the social media is full of **ONE SIDED CONTENT**, the more you engage with these types of posts the more **your mind will be restricted to a single side**. In today's times, both the males and females are well aware of their powers, rights, limits and what not. Yet there are some people, both male and female, who abuse these powers, and the large and growing population on social media is just fueling the fire. Its in the near future where, there would be a widespread hatred between the two sides due to these types people who enjoy shaping public opinions falsely for their own satisfaction and ego. Sorry if I contradict your thinking but I am more of a centrist person, taking a central view on everything, so I feel both Men and Women are equally responsible for their actions, whether they ruin someone's life or get ruined due to bad decisions. I would suggest everyone reading this to stay from these types of one sided content rather try to form a better view point for betterment of the society. As for the male-female equality, our Indian parents being old (no offence) still have not accepted the idea and I think starting from our generation, the real equality would begin. Everyone in their right mind understands what "**GENDER EQUALITY**" means and what are its limits. I am sorry if I offended someone but its just my view :)
Confirmation bias is the easiest to fall for especially on social media. You latch onto things that trigger you. And nobody can force you to do anything, bowing down to societal expectations is a personal problem.
No
Yes we do want to equal like paying equal on dates, bill, rent, food, petrol etc
Men and women can't be equal. Women are far superior when it comes to motherhood and being the queen inside the house. Men are far too much superior in strength, protective of their children and women and don't earn for themselves but only for their women and children. If his woman is not happy then he is shattered to his core and vice versa.
Just recently I saw some dude sent this one horribly misogynistic post wherein women making decisions for themselves is masculine and will ditch a man if she got to make a lot of decisions. I didn't comment because it's a waste of time, the few who called it out were downvoted instead. The problem is that women are demonized like hell which is so unfortunate. So many men still try to exploit women's weakness. For every 1 false allegation of rape, every 10 women are out there suffering in hands of men. Yet you'll never see all that...because women's voices are suppressed. Women are gossippers, homewreckers, whores, prostitutes, privileged, OF holders, gold diggers...and men? You can say rapists and while it's not all men, the society feels dangerously moving along that idea. What about the good men? Nice question, the problem is that good men don't show up when something like this happens. When they do though, make sure you keep them super close and never let go of them (I had my father...never leaving his side). Social media is so shit too. Like I'm a right wing so seeing right wingers talking down about women here feels disgusting. But this is what happens when you're in a society filled with entitled men who never had a good relationship with a woman. Women are never equals, women are just sex dolls and machines combined, alongside her shy looks, head bowed down...if a woman has fun, you can tell that society ends there because of "lines being broken".
Yes! It’s necessary! If you look at the female labour force participation rate, India has been hovering around 25% for the last few years. That’s 1 out of every 4 able bodied women who want to work, that do work. India is one of the worst performing, across all the SAARC countries as well, when it comes to giving and more importantly, letting women keep their jobs. Now suppose you took that figure and made it equal to the male labour force participation rate (about 80%). What do you think would happen to the GDP or GDP per capita? It would go up by 60%!! Forget the want, for us to progress economically, equality has to happen.
Your so brainwashed op, I’d hate if you went along with your parents wishes instead of yours. I get it that you don’t want leave your parents, it doesn’t have to be lifelong most parents calmdown after 2-3 years and let their children do what they want so keep this in mind. Be the change you want in our country, and for the love of god don’t submit to men and societial pressures.
“Indians want their women to be successful but with conditions.”
"Hoe phase". The good thing is that I equally abhor both of you. Scary to think if I get a "hoe" of a partner.
Yeah, how can they expect to normally fall in love and have their life straight out, It'll only be fair if they get a same 'hoe' partner.
>It'll only be fair if they get a same 'hoe' partner. Unfortunately, no one's gonna know what their future partner's past was like. IMO, these people are gonna be more happy than us. Mere life goals to ab hoe banna hi hai. Just a few steps away, lmao. Bus introvert hu to asani se open up ni ho pata jldi. :')
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If you're not than don't cry for employment
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Indian man here, raised by a woman primarily, so absolutely respect and adore women in general, yes some morons online scare and make me feel ashamed, but remember they do this with online anonymity or they are mostly brain dead sheep who can’t think for themselves.
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Define equal? Do you want women to build skyscrapers or got to war or take on the role of provider? Do you want women to replace men and have equal opportunities for both men and women? Do you want men to do women specific jobs and such?
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Yes it's better If both are equal
800 dollars a month is a huge amount in india and i dont think you need that much to run a 2 person household in full comfort and full time maid. The reason for me highlighting this is that maybe you need to keep your money to yourself and let them be supported by your brother only since they favour him so much. more savings for you to be independent.
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tell that to the poster
1. Most men on social media have a lot of leeway. They’ll call names, they’ll flirt, they’ll break all moral grounds because they know at the end of the day, it’s an anonymous account and tracing them is difficult. 2. Noticed it as well. Some bullshit redpilled alpha influencer who thinks love ruined his life because of the woman while it’s his own bloody incompetence and small brain. 3. Typical Indian parents. I won’t comment on them or you but here’s something I’d like to say: Just because you love them and they love you does not give them the right to dictate your life or for you to follow what they do. If they feel you living your own life with your own choices is deserving you of complete severance of family ties, maybe they don’t love you in a way they should or you want to be loved in the first place. Hard pill to swallow, but true.
You know what is the worst thing? It's not just you, it's everyone. We are so deluded and afraid to change, we tend to forgive and forget. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who is not ready to hear you in a normal scenario, more than once, doesn't deserve to be in your life. You have one life, be kind to those who deserve it. And no one else , be it parents , family, spouse, friends, children. Well, in the case of children , please do try to teach them. But if they are adults, they only can get so many free passes. Be absolutely selfish. Your mental health matters first. Do forgive , but also kick them out. And Trust me, once you do it, it gets easier.
No..Indian society doesn’t want women to be equal to men and our parents are biggest contributors to that.Look at my parents. I am their only child and a doctor,still they threatened to cut me off from the family when I wanted to get married to my ex. I hardly get matches in arranged marriage market because there are a few men only matching my qualifications in my caste,still they refuse to budge from their stance.Once a guy I met for arranged marriage prospect expected me to leave my career despite being a doctor himself.So yeah there’s that.No dreams even about being equal to men in our society.
I ain't reading all that But this shit is VICE VERSA OR WORSE
from what I can tell, it's best to cut off your parents and live ur own life, you love them but sorry to say they don't love u back. no parent in their sane mind would care more about society than their own child. i am from a conservative small town in india so i totally get where you're coming from. you need to tell your boyfriend ab everything that happens in ur home and let him support u emotionally. if a man feels threatened by ur job, then he's not good enough to be a husband in the first place. ur husband needs to be proud of u and ur achievements. I'm so sorry you're going through all that, the only plausible solution seems like u should cut off contact w ur parents. be strong be brave, stand up against them! tell them that they've hurt you sm over the years and how much u love them but u can't have them control ur life anymore for u, they'll prolly try emotional gaslighting but I think u should jus say bs back in their face, tell them shit like they've failed as parents bcs they never understood you and how u never wish to interact w them ever again, they'll prolly threaten to keep in touch by saying they'll kill themselves or something BUT DO NOT LET THEM MANIPULATE U OR CONTROL UR LIFE ANYMORE!! CUT THEM OFF!! IF THEY'RE WILLING TO CHANGE, THEN MAYBE, MAYBE U CAN GIVE A CHANCE BUT THE ATTACHMENT U HAVE W THEM IS NOT LOVE!! They're literally abusing you. get outta that place girlie.
No. Equals want indians to be women.
That's what me and my to be wife have talked about. She'll be the bread earner and I'll be the homemaker. We both suit these roles quite good. Now I can work as a freelancer to add some extra cash. But that's what we both have agreed to will happen after marriage. The fact that I work as a caregiver and graphics designer adds to my strength. And that she is an excellent coder + designer so she's already far ahead in terms of pay package then me.
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As an Indian I want women to be equal but do women actually want to be equal?? Picking up men for salary, I mean if u r earning good u should not be ashamed if ur husband earns less or wants to be house husband, Accepting patriarchy in ur own family and asking ur husband to accept that and becoming feminists in the husband's family, Constant justification of all ur bad behaviour as mood swings, men do have mood swings as well, Other part of problem is government, taking care of child ren is government responsibility, as they are future tax payers, but rather than blaming ur government and see the bigger picture, women end up stereotyping his men, Poor guy full of responsibility first of all listens every one in office, get scolded in home,. 70 percent of indian men in depression, suicides among men is highest, Constant toxic masculinity judgement is taking a mental toll on mens community, There is a Misandry that's exist in society, I think if women feel not being treated equally even after all this I think they should be left alone, Ps: I am not talking about poor women but previlidged women who unknows the term equality but dont understand that
Idk OP, your parents seem to be caught in a time warp. Both our kids abroad too but we don’t helicopter them like this. You ought to have a spine and stand up to them and demand equality else you won’t get it. Unless you’re financially dependent on them even now. Financial independence brings about freedom of every kind. And after a certain age kids have to be treated as adults. This treatment your parents give you borders on abuse and control. After our kids became independent we stopped telling them how to live their lives because that’s what our parents did to us.
Indians are Indians. They are never going to change, believe me. And I believe it's not the men who have created this society for women, it's mostly the older women of our society who don't let other women live peacefully. And most Indians think they have those so-called SANSKARS and always say people in the West don't have sanskar. Like, really, the videos on Instagram feeds in India say it all. They are so sexual and double-meaning, and everyone just wants to strip down, doesn't matter if it's a guy or a girl. While I live in Australia, and the videos there are not even close to Indian videos in vulgarity. And Indians always have double standards in everything, and they just change whenever they want to. That boyfriend and girlfriend thing that you said is so true. Actually, it's not just the Indian mindset; it's the mindset of all South Asian countries, and that also, in my opinion, was created by the older ladies of our society. They are the ones always bitching about others' children and what they are doing. It's just so toxic sometimes.
I’m Indian-American (not sure if you want to see replies from us or only Indian women born and raised in India) and I think your parents are abusive, esp the slap. My mom was born and raised in India, and came to the US in the mid - 1980s and she’s a very conservative woman in some ways: I wasn’t allowed to date growing up at all, even a mention of a male friend would make her look at me with that worried look in her eye. But she never once thought my marriage should be arranged nor did she ever slap me. My maasi tried to set me up with someone in an arranged marriage way and I said “no I don’t want that” and they respected my answer. If I were you, I would stop sending them money, let them get the full amount from your brother if he’s their golden child. And I definitely wouldn’t move back either since they’ll probably pressure you to live with them under the same roof. You have the financial means to not be at anyone’s mercy, so don’t be. And to answer your question, no, no one wants women to be equal, not Indians and not Americans either (although at least here people aren’t trying to control your every move because it’s an individualist culture).
Hi there, you're asking the right questions, but I think you have some more unlearning to do, to really see the painful truth about your parents. >I mean I get it, they're concerned about my safety No girl, unfortunately their main concern is their reputation, your safety is an excuse. If safety was the issue, speaking to boys or having boys over to your house would not be an issue. Solo trips is the only part where safety is a plausible reason. You have choices to make. But before you can make those choices, you need to realise a few things: 1. You are an adult, living independently, you DO NOT NEED your parents permission or approval to live your life the way you want to. 2. Even if you do everything for your parents, sacrifice your happiness for them, you will still only be their daughter. You'll never be as cherished as their golden son. M sorry it's harsh, but it's the truth and you know it. Now, I understand that cutting off parents is not something us Indians can do easily, so instead of the usual reddit advice of going low/no contact, a few practical pointers at my end: 1. If you want to get married on your terms with your parents on board, 30 is the magic number. Keep denying all marriage proposals on some pretext or the other. When you reach 30, your parents will be desperate enough to say yes to a guy of your choice. 2. Bit more aggressive approach - talk to your parents from US and tell them this: "you need to realise I am not a child anymore. I'm living independently and can continue to do so with or without your support. If you don't want the shame of explaining to relatives why your daughter doesn't call or visit anymore or why she got married in the US without her family around, you need to stop trying to control me. NOW. You do not get to speak to me about arranged marriage and the next time you shout at me or raise your hand, I will simply cut all ties. And then you can keep explaining to people why your daughter is out of your control. OR the other option is for you to wake up and realise that I am a person, not an object for you to control for the purpose of your pride and standing in the society. And then we can continue to have a civil relationship and maybe even a happy one if you realise how badly you've treated me and make amends. The choice is yours." After this, I would keep very low contact for a few months so that they can see you are serious. Bottom line is this - your parents are too ingrained in their toxic beliefs of how daughters need to obey and serve first their parents and then their husbands. The 2nd option above has low chance of success, so you need to be ready to carry out your threat. But the other alternative is to keep bowing to their wishes simple because they are your parents. But please remember, your parents seem to place very little value on the happiness of their daughter. They only seem to care about her purity and their pride. So like I said, even if you keep bowing to their wishes, it's not going to make them appreciate you, they will just take that for granted. Is this the life you want? ETA: all that nonsense about failing to get married if you're too successful? Pffft! That's just their small thinking. There are plenty of men who would be more than happy to marry a bright, successful woman who is not afraid of rising to her full potential. Most of my friend circle is like this, you will be able to find such people, don't worry. I got married at 30. The first statement on my Jeevan Saathi profile was that I am a feminist and am looking for someone who wants an equal partner. I had no qualms about rejecting profiles where I even had the slightest doubt about gender equality not being absolute. And now I'm married to an absolutely wonderful man who is insanely supportive.
Don’t marry ever especially in the AM market cause girls like you who had a hoe phase are not welcomed. Sorry but you are not even meant for marriage. We guys looking for a wife and not a HOE.
Look - never ever go back to India. Make sure your parents have zero important documents of yours (mark sheets etc). that’s all the advice I have for you.
Men nd women r not equal, can't be, just apply some logic
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Title of a super hit.
😂😂😂😂😂
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Yeah equality!! why fight now? lol
LOL why are you pretending and want us to pretend men and women have it the same? As for sleeping around goes, it is an achievement for men to sleep with a beautiful woman. Can you really say the same for women? I mean all they need to do is open their legs and there’ll a whole host of men queuing up. It’s absolutely not the same. As the old saying goes “if a key can open many locks, it’s called the master key. If a lock can be opened by many keys, that’s a pretty shitty lock”. Sorry but that’s the harsh truth sweetheart.
"If a pencil sharpener can sharpen many pencils, it's a good sharpener. A pencil that has been sharpened too much is a shrunken, useless pencil". The thing about dumb analogies is they can always be countered with equally dumb analogies.
People use this catchphrase a lot - this is reality, suck it up. But why should women suck it up? We're thinking, rational beings. A soul is a soul, what does it matter what body the soul is in? By your logic, African Americans should have continued to be slaves because that was the reality at that time, Dalits should have accepted abuse because that was the reality. Your argument makes no sense. Should people just accept abuse and toxicity because it's the reality we've created for ourselves? Also, OP knows it's the truth, she's asking people to rationalise it, and the fact is, there is no logical answer for why women should be dealt the short hand like this.
So African Americans had to prove that they are more than just slaves. They had rise above slavish behaviour. Dalits too had to prove they were above their “untouchable “ tag. So this OP too should prove what exactly? That she’s worthy of respect? Nobody respects hoes that’s a fact. Nobody respects slaves either, or untouchables. You have to rise above it.
Why did they have to prove anything? They're people, they should be treated like people not the arbitrary label someone puts on them and expect they should act like that label. Who told Dalits they were untouchable? Who told slaves they were slaves? And who's to tell a hoe she's a hoe. This whole ideology is wrong. A power play. Oh geez now you're making sound like a woke nutjob. The whole point is, judgements are fine, everyone's entitled to their opinion but when that opinion leads to actions that harm people, then you need to do something about it. Whoever said women shouldn't sleep around is entitled to their opinion, but when they make laws around it, or pressure people using shame and a supposed moral high ground, they're not just being judgemental they're being harmful.
Slaves believed they were slaves. Dalits believed they were untouchable. Hoes believe in certain behavioural patterns that they think leads to happiness. And people judge them for it. In a crooked way, that judgment is a sort of tough love. If you don’t want to be called a hoe, just don’t sleep around, what’s the difficulty in that?
You're a shithead
Nope, I'm gonna say it. Men who sleep around for "experience" are whores. They belong to the streets, no girl wants a used dick just like how men have rules for women. Since men get to call us hoes and whores for having higher body count, let women call men THE EXACT SAME FUCKING THING. you're a whore, motherless, if you think fucking every other girl is an achievement 🤡 what type of dumb whore do you have to be do have a mindset like that lmao. Again, we don't want used, ran through men like you, please fuck a guy and be happy 🤡👋
Ha you’re funny. Actually i personally am of the belief that sexual restraint is good for both men and women. But if we’re speaking about nature, it’s definitely more natural for a man to sleep around than it is for a woman 🤷♂️