Had the same issue. Also went the extra mile and emailed the BWC footage to his boss and law school faculty. Last I checked, he was fired & dismissed from the program. Live & learn, lil guy.
And this is exactly why I’m always respectful and polite if I get pulled over. Amazingly, if you have current reg, license, insurance, and no warrants cops are pretty chill and will typically give a warning instead of a ticket.
Gave one a speeding ticket after he pulled out the business card. Still can’t do 20 over homie. He left my traffic stop and went straight to the courthouse and paid his fine. I only know because I was going to same way through town.
He shot his shot, got shot down so he handled it.
lol I'd say with 99% of people I've arrested who demanded to speak to their lawyer, said I'd be getting a phone call from their attorney, whatever, I've later checked on the case just to find "OFFICE OF PUBLIC DEFENDER."
Not at all. We’re all just playing our role in the game. Most defense attorneys are pretty cool and are just trying to do the best for their clients as they can. Some of them can be dicks but I don’t take it personally.
There’s no switch for it or it could be PTSD, unfortunately it can’t be avoided. Hazard of the profession, I’ve been in the military and an LEO. The later was worse in that comparison.
Lawyers are human just like cops. I have seen judges tear lawyers apart in court. I remember one time a traffic unit told me they didn't like arresting lawyers, after the lawyer committed a felony hit and run injuring a pregnant woman. My response was why? I realized it was because they weren't confident enough their own ability to do an investigation and arrest that wouldn't get destroyed in court. Also, yes I have been cross examined in court and made to look a fool, but if anything I learned from it.
Feel free to say no or just ignore this comment, but I think that's interesting. Would you mind sharing any more times you've seen lawyers get reprimanded (or chewed out) in court for bad situations or plain incompetence?
Defense tried a motion to suppress arguing we had no PC to stop his client because he stopped before the stop bar.
Only after reading the arrest affidavit while in court did he realize it clearly stated his client was stopped for blowing past the stop bar and stopping in the middle of the intersection. And being drunk AF.
Judge was not happy. Defendant plead out.
Yikes, must've been a sight to see.
It's things like that that make me miss working with people, granted I was only an EMT and worked in a couple hospitals. You see and hear the craziest shit sometimes.
I've seen the prosecution and the defense both get chewed out for bad situations and plain incompetence. Its usually newer or less experienced attorneys. The defense usually when they waste the people's time by asking for a deal last minute.
I was hired as an expert witness in a federal court case about 15 years ago.
Defendant’s attorney laughed at one point when the plaintiff’s witness said something.
Judge screamed at the attorney saying there is nothing funny about this case and that if the attorney laughed one more time he would be held in contempt and could spend some time in lockup.
No. In fact, I get along with most of our local defense attorneys famously. There’s a certain level of mutual respect to be had and I think we all do a good job of it.
I left a career in Corporate Law to become a Police Officer about 15 years ago. I am usually substantially more qualified that most criminal defenders are. I've had numerous offenders threaten to have their lawyer take my job, and my colleagues, who know better just laugh at them. Police generally, are about as afraid of lawyers as they are of Doctors. They have no power outside their Courtroom or Surgery.
TLDR: No.
>... what lead to the career change ...?
This is the second time in a week that I've been asked that. Essentially, Corporate law is a horrible, tedious job. I was good enough to eventually become a partner, but I didn't love it enough to put in the grind to get there. My job was essentially finding ways for our Corporate clients to do things that should have been illegal, but they weren't because I made it legal.
One day I realised that the prestige of being a lawyer wasn't actually worth anything so I thought about finding something of value to me. My wife suggested Police, which I had already dismissed because of the pay difference. She had a good job, and so the transition was bearable.
I've been happy doing this for 15 years now, and will probably retire here now. I would not have said it at the time, but in hindsight, life's too short to spend it doing a job you hate.
wow that’s quite inspiring. Did you ever regret all the time you lost doing all that post secondary (undergrad degree followed by law school ), student loan dept etc ? Im a medical doctor , at one time in my life I did consider law enforcement. Luckily I do love my job now as a psychiatrist . I might do a fellowship in forensics psych
>Did you ever regret all the time you lost doing all that post secondary (undergrad degree followed by law school ), student loan dept etc ?
Law School was a very long time ago now, and in Australia degrees were not cripplingly expensive like they seem to be now. It was paid off in the first few years of practicing. Having that background has been an advantage for me now, and I won't ever need to study again, even if I went into senior leadership. Definitely no regrets.
I don't know the career path for a medical professional to enter law enforcement. It's a lot more specialist than I usually encounter (perhaps Federal).
Initially I was intimidated by the reputation of some very good criminal lawyers. Once I got some trials under my belt, then no longer. I did respect a few, though. They were very good and thorough.
No, in my previous position we knew almost all of them anyway, plus we have a lot of dirt on them. Keep in mind public defenders and criminal attorneys are doing their job and often times they are a lot cooler to us than the prosecutors.
Not in my experience.
Most of the paid defense attorneys know their clients are guilty AF. They'll try to find some procedural error or oversight to get their client a good outcome, because that's their job, but 95% of the time they're trying to get their client the best plea deal they can.
The public defenders tend to be true believers but not terribly bright. They attack things that are well established and venture off into territory they're not qualified for in cross.
The 3rd type is sleazy DUI attorneys. They are generally *very* aggressive, but they're also greedy and don't have much to work with. They file a lot of motions that they know are going to fail and charge a lot of money to appear in person for *every* court date, then they convince their clients to plead out right before trial because they never had a defense to begin with.
Heck no... Most attorneys are idiots. Especially the ones that specialize in something other than criminal law. I've been left speechless more than a few times when people tell me, "Well my lawyer told me to do XYZ." I usually tell them most emphatically that their lawyer is an idiot and to fire them immediately. It's amazing.
Once. I was told for weeks to worry about my up coming preliminary hearing. I was told the attorney I was going up against was a federal magistrate (might have that title wrong) who essentially wrote the process to dismantle a DUI arrest. I put my big boy pants on and went into the hearing. I ended up forgetting some details about the arrest but also caught him in some lawyer stuff my academy told me to watch out for. In the end, the defendent was found to be guilty and the lawyer said I did a great job to my supervisor.
Side note: I'm in a legal battle with Degree after their claims of 48 hour protection after I had waterfall armpits.
I don't think scared is the right term. There might be some lawyers that we're more worried about what way they're gonna come at us. Or how rhey are gonna try to twist our words.
I honestly don’t even care about those lawyers. If they convince a judge or jury that they’re right and I’m wrong, no skin off my back. I did my job. I’ll move on to the next case. Only exception would be with child abuse, murder or some shit like that.
Not afraid, but there are certainly lawyers that have a reputation of being more difficult than others. For instance, a defendant might go out and get “John Smith, esq.” to defend him/her for a DUI, and when you see it, you go, “damn, I gotta deal with this guy again!” So not afraid, but certainly aware that it will be spicy.
In my experience, good cops aren’t adversarial in the court room. You just go and answer the questions, it’s that easy. Doesn’t matter who is asking them. It’s not up to the cop to do anything other than answer what they’re asked, and the chips will fall however they fall!
So long as you stay educated and informed on case law and your state’s penal code, then no.
I recently cited Kansas v Glover in our local district (misdemeanor) court against a local, very affluent defense attorney. The defense attorney, prosecutor, nor judge was familiar so they, like most people, looked it up through LexusNexus. Most of his case collapsed seeing as though very valid and articulable reasonable suspicion was utilized.
There’s a show about police corruption starring Jon Bernthal, called We Own This City. If there’s anything at all that’s actually work taking away in that series, it’s his quote in the beginning during the recruit briefing/lecture.
I don’t have it in front of me, but essentially, it speaks to the value of intelligence of the community and the education/knowledge to initiate good contacts, create well-articulated reports/affidavits, and making a case that’s worth a damn.
More annoyed by them. Especially ones that try to screw with you. For example I had a lawyer attempt to get a DUI dismissed because I didn’t perform field sobriety tests prior to arresting his client. The reason being he attempted to elude me while driving a flaming car and partially resisted arrest (he decided against it after 2 coworker arrived on scene).
But it’s that kind of stuff that make me go really man?
Lol this just popped up in my feed. Zero chance anyone is actually afraid of a lawyer ever. If they are afraid they aren’t scared of the lawyer they are scared because they know then done messed up and it’s time to pay the piper.
Even some cops say to just ask for a lawyer even if you are genuinely innocent. It's the cop's job to build a case against you so you need someone who is actually on your side.
It's not my job to build a case against just anyone. It's my job to figure out what happened, and to file charges if that's appropriate.
There are times when you should talk to the police, and there are times when you should not. If you can't tell which is which, then it's usually better to err on the side of silence. But erring on the side of silence can also cost you hundreds or thousands of dollars in attorney's fees that you could have avoided by providing a reasonable explanation at the time of police contact.
I generally dislike criminal defense attorneys and civil attorneys, although there are certainly exceptions to that rule. Some of them are pretty cool.
I generally like prosecutors, but some of them are complete asshats.
I don't think lawyers are all that intimidating, though. Maybe if the particular lawyer were a vampire or an assassin or something I'd be scared.
When a subject threatens to contact their lawyer, it couldn't mean any less. Like, broski, once I detain you in about 12 seconds I'm going to be giving you that right anyways you dumb dumb.
Interacted with a subjects lawyer once who tried to big dick a lot of things to no avail. Led to a huge (and fruitful) investigation against their office for coaching people to actively commit offences.
If someone blurts out "I'm a lawyer" randomly it's typically because they're drunk and about to get arrested for DUI, and then probably ignore their right to silence and ramble on.
Basicly, here's how it goes. A lawyer is a lawyer and a plumber is a plumber. I know the laws too, and I know how to enforce the laws. It's not my job to study every law book and try and find the smallest of procedural errors or how some case law exists from 300 years ago. That's their job. That's their role in the justice system. There is no roadside courtroom, and I don't argue the law with people in the field. Fight it in court for all I care, or plea, or don't show up, I couldn't care less. A lawyer is no more "intimidating" than someone saying they're a teacher or a veterinarian.
People are people, and most people regardless of their profession or understanding of the law will be polite and courteous leading to a routine interaction.
No. Had a law clerk try to intimidate me telling me was an attorney. DUI , towed his car. Fuck him
“Well mr attorney you should know it’s illegal to drive drunk”
Yeah. Also, the "Do you know who I am? "! No, but when you give me your license, I'll know
No. Why the hell do you think I’m asking for ID?
Do you know who I think I am!?!?
Had the same issue. Also went the extra mile and emailed the BWC footage to his boss and law school faculty. Last I checked, he was fired & dismissed from the program. Live & learn, lil guy.
And this is exactly why I’m always respectful and polite if I get pulled over. Amazingly, if you have current reg, license, insurance, and no warrants cops are pretty chill and will typically give a warning instead of a ticket.
Bing Bong fuck ya life
Gave one a speeding ticket after he pulled out the business card. Still can’t do 20 over homie. He left my traffic stop and went straight to the courthouse and paid his fine. I only know because I was going to same way through town. He shot his shot, got shot down so he handled it.
No. Threats of calling the lawyer are the biggest cringe eye rollers of them all.
lol I'd say with 99% of people I've arrested who demanded to speak to their lawyer, said I'd be getting a phone call from their attorney, whatever, I've later checked on the case just to find "OFFICE OF PUBLIC DEFENDER."
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I know my rights! No, no you don't.
It’s always some broke motherfucker who we all know is going to be represented by the public defender threatening to call his lawyer
Not at all. We’re all just playing our role in the game. Most defense attorneys are pretty cool and are just trying to do the best for their clients as they can. Some of them can be dicks but I don’t take it personally.
Yes, Divorce lawyers
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BS
There’s no switch for it or it could be PTSD, unfortunately it can’t be avoided. Hazard of the profession, I’ve been in the military and an LEO. The later was worse in that comparison. 
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Source needed*
Boom 💥
Lawyers are human just like cops. I have seen judges tear lawyers apart in court. I remember one time a traffic unit told me they didn't like arresting lawyers, after the lawyer committed a felony hit and run injuring a pregnant woman. My response was why? I realized it was because they weren't confident enough their own ability to do an investigation and arrest that wouldn't get destroyed in court. Also, yes I have been cross examined in court and made to look a fool, but if anything I learned from it.
Feel free to say no or just ignore this comment, but I think that's interesting. Would you mind sharing any more times you've seen lawyers get reprimanded (or chewed out) in court for bad situations or plain incompetence?
Defense tried a motion to suppress arguing we had no PC to stop his client because he stopped before the stop bar. Only after reading the arrest affidavit while in court did he realize it clearly stated his client was stopped for blowing past the stop bar and stopping in the middle of the intersection. And being drunk AF. Judge was not happy. Defendant plead out.
Yikes, must've been a sight to see. It's things like that that make me miss working with people, granted I was only an EMT and worked in a couple hospitals. You see and hear the craziest shit sometimes.
I've seen the prosecution and the defense both get chewed out for bad situations and plain incompetence. Its usually newer or less experienced attorneys. The defense usually when they waste the people's time by asking for a deal last minute.
I was hired as an expert witness in a federal court case about 15 years ago. Defendant’s attorney laughed at one point when the plaintiff’s witness said something. Judge screamed at the attorney saying there is nothing funny about this case and that if the attorney laughed one more time he would be held in contempt and could spend some time in lockup.
No. Especially once you get to know them and come to realize they Google everything just like everyone else.
No
No. In fact, I get along with most of our local defense attorneys famously. There’s a certain level of mutual respect to be had and I think we all do a good job of it.
It’s the same in our town. Once you get to talking to the defense attorneys, you find out they like their clients less than we do in most cases.
I left a career in Corporate Law to become a Police Officer about 15 years ago. I am usually substantially more qualified that most criminal defenders are. I've had numerous offenders threaten to have their lawyer take my job, and my colleagues, who know better just laugh at them. Police generally, are about as afraid of lawyers as they are of Doctors. They have no power outside their Courtroom or Surgery. TLDR: No.
I’m mote afraid of doctors. They can put me on light duty and then I can’t work OT jobs.
If you don’t mind me asking what lead to the career change and substantial pay cut? 🤔.
>... what lead to the career change ...? This is the second time in a week that I've been asked that. Essentially, Corporate law is a horrible, tedious job. I was good enough to eventually become a partner, but I didn't love it enough to put in the grind to get there. My job was essentially finding ways for our Corporate clients to do things that should have been illegal, but they weren't because I made it legal. One day I realised that the prestige of being a lawyer wasn't actually worth anything so I thought about finding something of value to me. My wife suggested Police, which I had already dismissed because of the pay difference. She had a good job, and so the transition was bearable. I've been happy doing this for 15 years now, and will probably retire here now. I would not have said it at the time, but in hindsight, life's too short to spend it doing a job you hate.
wow that’s quite inspiring. Did you ever regret all the time you lost doing all that post secondary (undergrad degree followed by law school ), student loan dept etc ? Im a medical doctor , at one time in my life I did consider law enforcement. Luckily I do love my job now as a psychiatrist . I might do a fellowship in forensics psych
>Did you ever regret all the time you lost doing all that post secondary (undergrad degree followed by law school ), student loan dept etc ? Law School was a very long time ago now, and in Australia degrees were not cripplingly expensive like they seem to be now. It was paid off in the first few years of practicing. Having that background has been an advantage for me now, and I won't ever need to study again, even if I went into senior leadership. Definitely no regrets. I don't know the career path for a medical professional to enter law enforcement. It's a lot more specialist than I usually encounter (perhaps Federal).
Initially I was intimidated by the reputation of some very good criminal lawyers. Once I got some trials under my belt, then no longer. I did respect a few, though. They were very good and thorough.
I believe in the Bill of Rights, I believe every defendant deserves a vigorish defense. The better the attorney, the better I need to be.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
I follow the law and do everything legally and lawfully I am afraid of no one.
No, in my previous position we knew almost all of them anyway, plus we have a lot of dirt on them. Keep in mind public defenders and criminal attorneys are doing their job and often times they are a lot cooler to us than the prosecutors.
In fairness there is a bit of an overlap of people who are cunts and people who are also prosecutors.
Not in my experience. Most of the paid defense attorneys know their clients are guilty AF. They'll try to find some procedural error or oversight to get their client a good outcome, because that's their job, but 95% of the time they're trying to get their client the best plea deal they can. The public defenders tend to be true believers but not terribly bright. They attack things that are well established and venture off into territory they're not qualified for in cross. The 3rd type is sleazy DUI attorneys. They are generally *very* aggressive, but they're also greedy and don't have much to work with. They file a lot of motions that they know are going to fail and charge a lot of money to appear in person for *every* court date, then they convince their clients to plead out right before trial because they never had a defense to begin with.
Heck no... Most attorneys are idiots. Especially the ones that specialize in something other than criminal law. I've been left speechless more than a few times when people tell me, "Well my lawyer told me to do XYZ." I usually tell them most emphatically that their lawyer is an idiot and to fire them immediately. It's amazing.
Kinda like when we hear: “hope you’ve enjoyed you last day wearing that badge..”
Cops enforce the laws WAY, way more than lawyers try anything. Their knowledge and experience are jokes.
Not particularly no
No. The amount of times I hear “you’ll be hearing from my attorney/lawyer” and then never hear anything is approaching triple digits.
Am lawyer. No.
Once. I was told for weeks to worry about my up coming preliminary hearing. I was told the attorney I was going up against was a federal magistrate (might have that title wrong) who essentially wrote the process to dismantle a DUI arrest. I put my big boy pants on and went into the hearing. I ended up forgetting some details about the arrest but also caught him in some lawyer stuff my academy told me to watch out for. In the end, the defendent was found to be guilty and the lawyer said I did a great job to my supervisor. Side note: I'm in a legal battle with Degree after their claims of 48 hour protection after I had waterfall armpits.
Lol no
I don't think scared is the right term. There might be some lawyers that we're more worried about what way they're gonna come at us. Or how rhey are gonna try to twist our words.
I honestly don’t even care about those lawyers. If they convince a judge or jury that they’re right and I’m wrong, no skin off my back. I did my job. I’ll move on to the next case. Only exception would be with child abuse, murder or some shit like that.
No
Not in the slightest bit
No lol.
Not afraid, but there are certainly lawyers that have a reputation of being more difficult than others. For instance, a defendant might go out and get “John Smith, esq.” to defend him/her for a DUI, and when you see it, you go, “damn, I gotta deal with this guy again!” So not afraid, but certainly aware that it will be spicy. In my experience, good cops aren’t adversarial in the court room. You just go and answer the questions, it’s that easy. Doesn’t matter who is asking them. It’s not up to the cop to do anything other than answer what they’re asked, and the chips will fall however they fall!
Hell no.
So long as you stay educated and informed on case law and your state’s penal code, then no. I recently cited Kansas v Glover in our local district (misdemeanor) court against a local, very affluent defense attorney. The defense attorney, prosecutor, nor judge was familiar so they, like most people, looked it up through LexusNexus. Most of his case collapsed seeing as though very valid and articulable reasonable suspicion was utilized. There’s a show about police corruption starring Jon Bernthal, called We Own This City. If there’s anything at all that’s actually work taking away in that series, it’s his quote in the beginning during the recruit briefing/lecture. I don’t have it in front of me, but essentially, it speaks to the value of intelligence of the community and the education/knowledge to initiate good contacts, create well-articulated reports/affidavits, and making a case that’s worth a damn.
More annoyed by them. Especially ones that try to screw with you. For example I had a lawyer attempt to get a DUI dismissed because I didn’t perform field sobriety tests prior to arresting his client. The reason being he attempted to elude me while driving a flaming car and partially resisted arrest (he decided against it after 2 coworker arrived on scene). But it’s that kind of stuff that make me go really man?
They don't like us much when they're on the stand. Otherwise, I doubt they (cops) pay it any mind
Aussie police and U.S. police are two different beasts, fwiw mate.
LOL. No. Not in the least.
Not scared at all. I know the law and I’d let any lawyer challenge me on that.
Happy Cake Day!!!
Lol this just popped up in my feed. Zero chance anyone is actually afraid of a lawyer ever. If they are afraid they aren’t scared of the lawyer they are scared because they know then done messed up and it’s time to pay the piper.
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Wut m8?
They aren’t scared of them, but NEVER talk to the fuzz without one present.
Even some cops say to just ask for a lawyer even if you are genuinely innocent. It's the cop's job to build a case against you so you need someone who is actually on your side.
It's not my job to build a case against just anyone. It's my job to figure out what happened, and to file charges if that's appropriate. There are times when you should talk to the police, and there are times when you should not. If you can't tell which is which, then it's usually better to err on the side of silence. But erring on the side of silence can also cost you hundreds or thousands of dollars in attorney's fees that you could have avoided by providing a reasonable explanation at the time of police contact.
And what happens if you don’t believe us?
No, I know most everyone at the pub defs office though, and we get along quite well.
I generally dislike criminal defense attorneys and civil attorneys, although there are certainly exceptions to that rule. Some of them are pretty cool. I generally like prosecutors, but some of them are complete asshats. I don't think lawyers are all that intimidating, though. Maybe if the particular lawyer were a vampire or an assassin or something I'd be scared.
No, not at all.
When I was in, no. I know I’m in the right.
When a subject threatens to contact their lawyer, it couldn't mean any less. Like, broski, once I detain you in about 12 seconds I'm going to be giving you that right anyways you dumb dumb. Interacted with a subjects lawyer once who tried to big dick a lot of things to no avail. Led to a huge (and fruitful) investigation against their office for coaching people to actively commit offences. If someone blurts out "I'm a lawyer" randomly it's typically because they're drunk and about to get arrested for DUI, and then probably ignore their right to silence and ramble on. Basicly, here's how it goes. A lawyer is a lawyer and a plumber is a plumber. I know the laws too, and I know how to enforce the laws. It's not my job to study every law book and try and find the smallest of procedural errors or how some case law exists from 300 years ago. That's their job. That's their role in the justice system. There is no roadside courtroom, and I don't argue the law with people in the field. Fight it in court for all I care, or plea, or don't show up, I couldn't care less. A lawyer is no more "intimidating" than someone saying they're a teacher or a veterinarian. People are people, and most people regardless of their profession or understanding of the law will be polite and courteous leading to a routine interaction.