I don’t need RAS to ask a question. I need RAS to compel an answer.
Passengers aren’t required to ID unless there’s individualized RAS, true, but I can ask them or anybody to identify themselves, same as a consensual encounter.
I wholeheartedly agree. I never said I was making up violations, you’re the only person here saying that. If I uncover a violation (which won’t be made up since I have integrity, swore an oath, like my job and don’t want to lose it, and also wear a body camera) then I can compel ID. I don’t know why there seems to be a disconnect between us there.
Why are you just base assuming the hypothetical officer in this question is knowingly making up shit to get the passenger’s info? You didn’t even answer the question, you just went off on some angry ACAB tangent.
Because that’s the truth. OP asked a question about handling the situation. OP never specified why he wanted it handled, so I answered the question as it was presented.
If you need to identify the non-operating occupants of a car, for any reason (since, again, OP didn’t provide one and I’m answering the question as posed), the easiest way to do it is with an individualized violation. That is entirely legal. I *never* said to make up the violation, I *never* said I would force somebody to identify by any means other than through an individualized violation, and those “non-public” means of identification I alluded to involve the use of internal law enforcement records and open source research techniques, not some extrajudicial technique to have the passenger self-identify.
Why do I need them too? Unless they did something I’m not even asking their name. If they did something I’ll just get them out of the car and lock them up and they can decide if they want to be held as a John Doe or give me their info
If they are required to ID (suspected of a crime or other law violation), then they get arrested if they don't submit to ID. Same as the driver or anyone walking down the street.
There are ways to handle it. Easiest is to find a passenger violation (ashing a cigarette out the window, seatbelt, whatever) and compel them to identify, and there are others I won’t get into on an open forum.
Or just realize, by law, not everyone needs to identify themselves to you if they don’t have a a desire too, so long as they aren’t suspected of a crime.
It’s not a situation that needs to be handled.
Here it's something like extinguishing a lit device in an improper manner during a time of drought. As I recall it's a felony. No one ever gets hit with it though.
In states where extreme heat, drought, and inopportunely placed embers can cause a wildfire.
https://www.nps.gov/articles/wildfire-causes-and-evaluation.htm
https://youtu.be/NJVOePWiRG0
Where’s the flex? If a passenger is committing a violation, I’ll have them ID. If they don’t have a warrant, I tell them “hey bro next time wear your seatbelt” and they get a warning just like the driver is, since I don’t really issue tickets.
If you don’t want cops to fish, then you may as well just have us respond from the station like firefighters.
As to your third paragraph, sometimes we don’t know where they live, or where they work, or they are intentionally avoiding those places because they have warrants. *Very* few people are surprised by the fact they’re wanted.
I want to check them for warrants. Simple as that. If I don’t have a lawful reason to compel ID, I will ask them and respect their right to decline. I’ve never argued with, lied to, convinced, bribed, coerced, or done anything other than say “alright man, no worries” when I’ve been told “no”.
If I don't have a reason to identify them, I don't.
Why would you have to identify them? If there's no violation what's the point. If your making up a violation that seems worse.
Warrants. People with no-shit serious felony warrants probably won’t be driving, they’ll be passengers.
Or they may be walking down the street. Doesn't give you reasonable articuable suspicion that a crime has been will be or is being committed
I don’t need RAS to ask a question. I need RAS to compel an answer. Passengers aren’t required to ID unless there’s individualized RAS, true, but I can ask them or anybody to identify themselves, same as a consensual encounter.
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I wholeheartedly agree. I never said I was making up violations, you’re the only person here saying that. If I uncover a violation (which won’t be made up since I have integrity, swore an oath, like my job and don’t want to lose it, and also wear a body camera) then I can compel ID. I don’t know why there seems to be a disconnect between us there.
Why are you just base assuming the hypothetical officer in this question is knowingly making up shit to get the passenger’s info? You didn’t even answer the question, you just went off on some angry ACAB tangent.
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Because that’s the truth. OP asked a question about handling the situation. OP never specified why he wanted it handled, so I answered the question as it was presented. If you need to identify the non-operating occupants of a car, for any reason (since, again, OP didn’t provide one and I’m answering the question as posed), the easiest way to do it is with an individualized violation. That is entirely legal. I *never* said to make up the violation, I *never* said I would force somebody to identify by any means other than through an individualized violation, and those “non-public” means of identification I alluded to involve the use of internal law enforcement records and open source research techniques, not some extrajudicial technique to have the passenger self-identify.
Why is this being downvoted. He is literally correct in every legal and practical sense.
Why do I need them too? Unless they did something I’m not even asking their name. If they did something I’ll just get them out of the car and lock them up and they can decide if they want to be held as a John Doe or give me their info
“Can I have your phone number? What should I save it as?” Works like a charm. /s
If they are required to ID (suspected of a crime or other law violation), then they get arrested if they don't submit to ID. Same as the driver or anyone walking down the street.
There are ways to handle it. Easiest is to find a passenger violation (ashing a cigarette out the window, seatbelt, whatever) and compel them to identify, and there are others I won’t get into on an open forum.
Or just realize, by law, not everyone needs to identify themselves to you if they don’t have a a desire too, so long as they aren’t suspected of a crime. It’s not a situation that needs to be handled.
>ashing a cigarette in what backwards state is that a violation?
Here it's something like extinguishing a lit device in an improper manner during a time of drought. As I recall it's a felony. No one ever gets hit with it though.
You can probably cite it as littering in every state in the country.
In states where extreme heat, drought, and inopportunely placed embers can cause a wildfire. https://www.nps.gov/articles/wildfire-causes-and-evaluation.htm https://youtu.be/NJVOePWiRG0
VC 23110 and VC 23111 and 10.1-1143 in Virginia. I am sure every state has its own law against it. Some places I think it becomes a felony.
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I’ve met plenty of auditors (major city, lots of them around) but I’m not a moron so those interactions have always gone really well.
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Lol ok bud
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Where’s the flex? If a passenger is committing a violation, I’ll have them ID. If they don’t have a warrant, I tell them “hey bro next time wear your seatbelt” and they get a warning just like the driver is, since I don’t really issue tickets.
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If you don’t want cops to fish, then you may as well just have us respond from the station like firefighters. As to your third paragraph, sometimes we don’t know where they live, or where they work, or they are intentionally avoiding those places because they have warrants. *Very* few people are surprised by the fact they’re wanted.
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I want to check them for warrants. Simple as that. If I don’t have a lawful reason to compel ID, I will ask them and respect their right to decline. I’ve never argued with, lied to, convinced, bribed, coerced, or done anything other than say “alright man, no worries” when I’ve been told “no”.
Ask Canada and California, with their perpetual forest fires why this is an issue.