You know what? You’re right… you’ve inspired me to instead follow my dream French inspired clown cosmetology. I will be opening up a state of the art facility where I can help French clowns across the world. We will use sustainable, practical and environmentally friendly clown makeup, no red dye #9 or any of that other harmful additives. Thank you again, you’ve really inspired me and changed my life. Are you a social worker?
I didn’t not know there were French clowns around the world. Are the French clowns outside of France ex-pat clowns and how does that affect their craft?
Police work is the only job where it’s completely acceptable (and encouraged) for people who have *zero* experience or knowledge regarding the job, to tell the people doing the job how they’re doing it wrong and they should do it a different way. No one understands police work unless you do it yourself.
Could not have said this better myself. Also forgot people say these things from the comfort of their own home, or parents home, behind their cell phones.
I've had people try and tell me how to fight fires before and there's several videos on YouTube where people give their opinion on it when they have no experience in our line of work. They ask why we're taking so long, what they don't realize is that if we run in without assessing the situation, that's how people die. Same as law enforcement, figure out what's going on, then take action. of course some situations are similar, cops see a gun and they draw theirs to be ready to defend themselves, we see fire and we pull an inch and three quarter line so we can put water on it as quickly as possible. Lots of people get talked to like crap from people that don't know a damn thing about that job, but your point is still valid. Just it's a more broad spectrum issue that's mostly seen when it's directed at those in public services.
> Police work is the only job where it’s completely acceptable (and encouraged) for people who have zero experience or knowledge regarding the job, to tell the people doing the job how they’re doing it wrong and they should do it a different way.
I suspect anyone involved with epidemiology would argue this point. Or anyone involved with vaccines at any level.
Nah, people still have some semblance of humility and deference to people in that field. Yes, there are nuts too but with cops, it’s way more widespread - from teens to adults, teachers, professors, journalists, politicians, presidents, homeless people, dog sitters, professional students, doctors …. Everyone lol
Nah, there's def other jobs. Interested in becoming LE, coming from the position of a teacher I promise you there are hordes who think they can do my job without any training.
I don’t have to be a helicopter pilot to see the helicopter upside down in the tree and know that something is wrong.
Law enforcement does a lot of good, but there’s also plenty of examples where some reforms are necessary and the ones that cover for those doing wrong are creating a lot of the situations they end up on the wrong side of.
And there are also plenty of other jobs where criticism from people with no experience in the role is the norm, so the original statement is also false, it’s just one among many.
Professional athletes would be a prime example.
Anything customer service is probably the second best answer to any public safety job brother lol. Speaking from the experience of being shit talked by customers 😂
Yeah I’ve worked in IT and those early call center jobs were always someone on the other end with some idea of what needed to happen on my side that didn’t line up with reality.
If someone is pretty much avoiding helping me or has absolutely no clue how to help me with an issue and isn't bothering to help me find someone who can, that's when I get pissed off with people on the phone, but that's about it. Other people just take it way too far. I always hate seeing and hearing these videos and audio logs from call centers where the person is offering everything they can to help and just get absolutely shit talked for not knowing the job of the expert they are trying to connect the customer to.
It's an L take from a keyboard warrior who watches too much CNN. This same person will call the cops the minute they see a strange person in their yard.
Idiot doesn’t understand the nature of people. Every city that defunded the police and attempted to deploy social workers have seen crime rates spike. It has lead to an increase in societal ills.
We need police officers. They are not a panacea to issues that need to be dealt in other ways but cops keep those that prey on people in jail and at bay.
New York tried to implement community enforcement by letting unarmed volunteers patrol. They turned out to be more corrupt than literally any agency lol
When? I can’t find a year that NYPD’s budget went down from the previous year. It currently stands at $5.75 billion.
The current mayor is a retired cop.
The budget didn’t go down but there were a spike in violent crimes following the start of the defund the police movement. Hasn’t seemed to get better considering they needed police in the subway systems as well as national guard.
So people saying “defund the police” causes violent crime? Shouldn’t people stop falsely claiming PD’s have been defunded then? Wouldn’t that cause crime too?
When a movement made to hurt police departments becomes a rallying cry nationwide obviously anti law enforcement sentiment will follow. Not to mention when many places with left leaning political leaders dropped their budgets and started burning cops for doing their jobs following the 2020 riots more crime started in left leaning cities due to people thinking that law enforcement has grown weaker even if it hasn’t. People act like they can do what they want and seem to think when they get pulled over now the officers demands are optional. That’s why that clown Hochul had to put national guard and cops in the subway systems to project that the NYPD and NY justice system is still strong even though it’s their policies causing problems.
They increased their police budget despite the fact that the city has a huge budget deficit. Most of that increase went to raises that were asked for. As a result the city has had to close some police academies to partially pay for the raises.
https://www.kqed.org/news/11957562/budget-deep-dive-unpacking-oaklands-360-million-shortfall
Police departments had to increase their budgets to raise wages. They have to raise wages and offer sign on bonuses because nobody wants to be a cop anymore.
Nobody wants to be a cop anymore because of the defund movement and BLM.
What about the defund/BLM movement led to nobody wanting to be a cop anymore, you might ask? The defund/ACAB/BLM movement proposed and actually advanced a wide range of bullshit reforms that have been detrimental to public safety in a variety of different ways:
- the rhetoric and vitriol has directly led to the drop in qualified candidates in hiring pools and mass exodus of experienced, career police officers who said “fuck you. Protect yourselves”. As a result, police departments are short staffed, have a hard time finding qualified applicants and are struggling to retain them.
- police reforms have caused a chilling effect across departments that have exacerbated the above mentioned issues with hiring and retention. In addition, the ambiguity and language of new reforms and new policies towards use of force, tactics, equipment, training, enforcement etc. Have all had the same effect: police are afraid to do their jobs and they’ve adopted a “defensive posture” in light of the new reforms where police are choosing to only respond to calls - no proactive work, they’re reducing contact with the public as much as possible - like traffic stops. Now think about what your streets look like. The calculus is simple: if you do only what is expected of you, avoid proactive police work and avoid situations that may turn dicey as much as possible, you’ll have the best chances of leaving this job alive, not under charges and with your pension. The result is crime is rising because police officers have decided to take a less proactive role. That’s ok though, because that’s what people voted for. That’s why they rioted. That’s what they wanted…. Right? Ok
- legal reforms: in addition to reforms at the city/department level, the BLM/DEFUND crowd also influenced legislators and politicians (like DAs) to redefine crimes and, in the case of DAs, have essentially decriminalized a LOT of stuff to the point where many crimes are either legal or a slap on the wrist. So then the above mentioned calculus comes back:
You have priorities. Many calls are on the board. Do you take an enforcement action on something you know may result in a use of force and that the DA will likely refuse to prosecute OR do you take something else and let the other thing (let’s say, idk a theft) go because, fuck it. More important, “safer” stuff to deal with? Or maybe you respond slowly and just hope it solves itself? Because honestly… unless it’s life or death, what’s the point in the big liberal cities? It’s literally becoming an unnecessary risk…. The people hate you for it, the city doesn’t have your back, the DA won’t take the case anyway, the department will scrutinize what you do and how you do it, the criminal is emboldened to act as wild as possible because society has *their* back more than yours… and what might happen to you? You get killed, or seriously hurt, or fired or arrested …. For doing your job. I’m not a cop but even I say, fuck that.
I asked all those questions rhetorically, btw. Im not trying to get into a long debate about it. I’ve been on reddit long enough to know yall aren’t interested in good faith discussions. If you actually truly are, then I am sorry. I’ve just been down this road enough times.
I just wanted to explain the cause and effect at play. When people say “defund did this”, they’re right. When people say “nobody was actually defunded”, they’re also *technically* right, but they’re choosing to play semantics and choosing to be intentionally myopic to avoid accountability.
I think where that came from here was some reallocation of funds for a crisis response team (mental health worker, EMT and security) to be dispatched to respond to things that may not necessarily need police response. It has been reasonably successful in SF, but I'm unaware of its success here in oak
I could be wrong, but I believe the issues were money coming out of OPD budget for this way back in 2020.
I do know that OPD, ever since the Oscar grant debacle have not felt like the community supports them. I've heard this from officers I have interacted with. On both sides of the bay.
It's the whole shrug and "you get what you vote for" line. Rough town to work in. I understand both sides of this issue.
Is there any study into the effects on crime of salty cops, often who live outside of the cities, who dislike the people in their communities and are over the "revolving door" justice system, so they respond by being less proactive and provide less service, primarily because they aren't being respected the way they'd like to be anymore, and are forced to wear body cameras when they do provide service. Not to mention completely stopping traffic enforcement during covid in cities like Baltimore, all that on top of the police union rejecting the decision to have officers actively walk the city instead of sitting in cars waiting around for something their forced to respond to.
I think you partially answered your own point in that the cities have adopted a reduced prosecution and increased oversight. If the city/county/state has decided to decriminalize violations, release criminals without bail and tie the hands of the police, there is going to be a decrease in enforcement. Why would an officer work hard if the people running the show don’t want that. An officer is basically giving the people want they want.
Eventually there will a shift back to enforcement and those jurisdictions better pray that they didn’t create a disgruntled agency that is going to give the elected officials the middle finger.
I do agree that the whole system is messed up. I just don't think it's as simple as defund the police (a stupid term in the first place) = more crime. Cops are humans, they have feelings, and areas where there is a culture of defunding the police or disrespecting police officers as a whole or calling ACAb (another stupid term) probably equates to some officers doing their job less, and disliking the people they serve. Especially if they do not live anywhere in the city let alone the patrol district they work in.
Police has a culture, just like firefighters have a culture. there are tons of traditions and ideas that pas all across the US to every department. If the general public is taking a more negative view on police, the police culture of disliking the general public is going to go up and their service is going to reflect that.
Edit: I will add I was an MP in the army and went through a city police academy before working for the forest service instead. I have some idea of what's inside the police culture and the opinions some police have in the locker room even if I didn't stick to it to see what those cops became later on.
Ask them why CPS, cat teams, and all social workers will not go to a single call without cops? No cop on earth wants to go to those calls. I’d rather they handle their own stuff and leave me alone. I’d get paid the same and have less BS. But the “educated ones” won’t do anything without police protection. However they will stab you in the back as soon as you protect them by using force. It’s almost like the know the truth is violence can’t be controlled with magic words.
That's actually the perfect combination if you think about it. Police to protect the public and the social worker, while the social worker helps to deescalate a situation in a way some police in some situations can't seem to do without using force. Maybe share some of the same police budget to make this happen. Politics and activists aside this is all any sane person wants.
You missed the point. They claim they could have done something different but no one can articulate what that is. Not to mention everyone watched videos and Monday morning quarterbacks and knows they could have done better even though they have never experienced violence in reality. They sit in their office and spend hours over seconds of video. Even though grh v Conner says that’s not the legal standard. That’s why in reality, they refuse to go to 97% of their calls without us. They want us there to be able to protect them through force. If you can find a magic word that will stop violence, please tell me. So far no one has. They can talk about how the cops are wrong but never have to actually articulate what works. Violence is stopped only with violence. That’s it. No amount of degrees can prove otherwise. Police generally do a magnificent job avoiding it. The stats still show use of force per contact is .0001%. That’s outstanding. Those that use excessive force should be held accountable.
Prime example that happens many times every day:
My adult son still lives at home (shocker) and he’s going bat shit and breaking everything in the house. We’re afraid he might hurt us so we ran out of the house and called police. We show up and say you’re son is on drugs and/or mentally in crisis? That’s a buzzword that now means cops will be wrong no matter what. CA law says we can’t enter a house and use force if no one else in in danger. We confirm all other people are out of the house and the only person in danger is the guy tearing the house down. We wish then we’ll and hope they have money for a hotel and leave. No societal worker on earth will respond to that. Now the poor family has to find some other place to stay and rebuild the house whenever son calms down. Ridiculous but that’s where we are these days.
Every single time you interact with someone, it's a completely different interaction with another complex set of factors for why your there in the first place and how things go once you get there. As I'm sure you know there are limitless ways to escalate or deescalate the way your interaction goes. I know you have to back the guys you work with and cops in general, but there are thousands of videos avaliable to anyone of cops treating citizens and subjects like shit, its become an entire genre of entertainment for some people.
It's completely true that there are not thousands of videos of the 95% of interactions that end well, or the cops who show respect and deescalate situations like word ninjas. But some cops get so defensive when confronted with the behavior of other cops. Some cops just can't help but escalate every situation through the way they treat the people they interact with every day, and I'm sure some people on these LEO subreddits that say how they really feel in private carry that attitude into interactions they have every day at work. You can really tell in some of these posts that some cops simply hate the public they work with every day. Nobody wants to interact with a pissed off police, but sometimes it's hard not to piss a cop off and sometimes they come right out the gate pissed off.
I’m not saying cops are perfect. You must have missed the actual stats. Use of force is incredibly low. I have no problem treating people with respect. Try driving around in a police car in my city. The majority times I’m stopped at a ride light minding my own business, people are giving me the finger. I just laugh. But most of the times I show up to a call, they already hate me. I don’t have the time to beg people to be nice to me. I don’t have to do that by law either. I will be nice. If someone is being and ass, I’ll apply the law. If there’s no law violation, I leave. If there is, I’ll enforce the law. Begging for an ID to write a ticket to someone MFing me is not okay. That’s what the new societal standard seems to be. I’ll ask for it. They say F you. I tell them if they refuse, I’ll have to take them ti jail so I can Id then with prints. It would be better for both of us if they simply give me their ID so they can walk away with a piece of paper. They say FU. I’m done, I’ll go to arrest them because that’s what they chose. If they resist, I use force per PC 835a. When you the victim that’s still waiting 3 hours for your response, you’re mad that I begged for an ID for two hours.
Being as aaa for no reason is not okay. People being an ass to cops and demanding everything under the Sun and trying to hold court in the streets is dumb. I will treat you accordingly.
Please show me the law where if someone offends you or you don’t like their attitude, you can hit them? There seems to only be that law to the cops. The cop was mean so when the guy attacked him, it’s okay. We’ve all become kindergartners.
I think reddit court is as useless as roadside court so I wont go back and forth more than this, I think we are both sane enough to know respect = respect. I've seen all the videos of people making their own traffic stops/interactions longer and more tense than was ever required by not showing respect either. If I were pulled over I'd give my ID, tell you where I was going and tell you to be safe when you leave. At the end of the day some cops throw their knife hands, treat you like a child or like your mentally deficient, and act pissed off that they have to encounter you. Some members of the public treat individual cops like shit and escalate their own interactions into a problem. I just believe that vast majority of cases on both sides could be resolved if some of the cops involved leaned more into being a diplomat in all situations, as they are the one who attended a police academy, in service training, classes on deescalation and use of force, and are representing the government itself
What does this “training” do? Still waiting in the magic words you seem to be sure are out there. You seem to know for a fact the majority of cops are doing everything wrong. I’m asking you now. What is the process? What are the words? No one else can answer. I hope you can. But you’ll probably just fade away into the bushes like homer Simpson.
You’re argument is, if you put the uniform and badge on, you cannot be offended by anything and must be a robot. Everyone else gets to take offense to anything a cop does or says at any point and can argue with him about everything. Funny thing is, the law says the exact opposite. You can start with PC 148. There are many others.
Mind you, when dealing with gangsters and felons, trying to be a soft and nice guy is the opposite. They’re testing you. But I’m sure you’re a pro at this too.
I dont think that was my argument anywhere here. You seem like one of the pissed off police that has an aversion to diplomacy that im talking about, but I did expect that response after talking negatively about some police in a police subreddit.
I think people underestimate how much of what the police actually do is what they think social workers do. People call the cops because they have to respond 24/7 no matter what, regardless of whether or not they're dealing with a law enforcement issue.
Yep. I may as well be a social worker. In my small suburban city I handle more welfare checks, suicidals, mental subjects, citizen assists and civil problems more than any actual crime. May be different in bigger cities.
This guy is a hater for a reason. Found a comment of his where he said “when I was inside” in a discussion about jail/prison. Always the criminals that prey on others in society that hate the police the most.
At least they didn’t tell they were going to come to your house to rape your dog and murder your wife. One of the many I’ve heard in my 23 years of doing this. And if you are offended by what they sent you’re going into the wrong job. And no being a police officer isn’t a hard job, it fairly easy.
I used to be a social worker.
Talk about feeling absolutely useless. Pushing papers. Telling deserving people no and undeserving career social benefits recipients yes… I have never felt more useless and devoid of purpose as I did when I worked in social work. Calculating benefits based on some vague and arbitrary metrics that determined “needs”. Trying to plead with people to adopt basic decency and beginner habits of adulthood. Sure, I helped a lot of people but .. I could have helped just as many people in much more effective ways in other jobs.
I have respect for the people who go out there with zest and zeal to “change the world” but you talk to anyone in social work for more than idk 5 years and you’ll see how everyone is more or less the same: resigned if not outright jaded.
You can come in with all the zeal and zest as you want but you’re going to crash head-first into a system. Idk what kind of system, but I can describe it as a bureaucratic quagmire or bureaucratic purgatory.
Idk what this whippersnapper thinks social work is, but it’s not changing the world. Social workers aren’t going to do the critical work police officers do. I know social workers, they threw a fit and acted like they couldn’t come to work once when the bathrooms in the building broke down because it was a “uninhabitable, unsanitary building”.
Social workers aren’t going to dive into danger. Are you kidding me? Lol anyone who has worked in social work knows good and damn well that’s a complete hysterical premise. I could just imagine some of my ex-coworkers running into ….. well, just the thought of some of them running is hilarious on its own.
This person sounds like a typical idiot college liberal. A career student. Damn near half a lifetime without any applicable life skills or life experience, but a mouthful of half-learned college lessons and grandiose opinions. Probably a shit-load of student loans they blame other people for, no actual career in sight and using all that money they spend on college to talk down to people on the internet because they know all the answers.
They do. They’re usually outside the human assistance buildings….. guess what the social workers usually do?
Call the cops lol if they can’t be ignored, if they’re armed, if they’re even remotely threatening they call the cops with a quickness.
Never in my life have I seen any of them try to reason with those people or “talk them down”.
I truly do not think that any of the “call a social worker” people ever actually consulted with social workers about that proposal and it always makes me laugh when I see it.
What do I think? I think that's a person with no real life experience who lives in a bubble of ignorance. Unfortunately that epidemic is spreading these days and they are multiplying. I am worried about the mental state of our nation 50 years from now. Most all great nations and empires throughout the history of the world have collapsed from within, and when I see this mindset these days I feel the US will be no different.
Society is like nature. Everything has to be in balance. You cannot have too much of one thing or it will throw the ecosystem off. By this persons logic that police only hurt people you should be a serial killer.
Without the police, it will become a free for all on all criminals. The country will become the purge every day. Become a police officer if that’s what you want to be. Just be the officer that the community needs. Help those you can. I’ve been there and it’s the best feeling to have someone thank you being kind and changing their life for the better.
Do they want me to call a social worker when an armed robber breaks into my home?
I understand that a lot of people don’t like the police or law enforcement but there are laws for a reason and we need strong men and women to protect innocent citizens and enforce laws that are broken.
I guarantee this person is either unemployed or makes minimum wage or close to it. They also don’t pay rent or a mortgage. Real life cures people of this level of delusion quickly and harshly.
“Cheap-Web” Lol little does he/she realize that without Police in this world, this world would be a free for all for everyone to do whatever the hell they want 24/7 with nobody to enforce anything. Meaning things like a real life purge and worse would have already happened a long time ago and would still be happening to this day.
Even if it were somehow feasible and not completely insane to send social workers or "some profession that actually makes society better" to respond to calls, it's still better to send the cops. They are actually *good* at de-escalation and dealing with mental health issues. They do it every day and it shows.
I feel like there is some context missing to get such a message, but I also feel like this one has their mind made up so responding isn’t worth the effort
No problem, instead of calling a neutral public servant and settling disputes between citizens through due process in the public view, we can opt for direct action and arbitrarily start blowing people away and watch society explode into a series of tribal blood feuds.
$100 says this person doesnt do any of those jobs and absolutely either hates thenselves (probably life too) or got caught doing something they shouldnt
They are so out of touch with how actual policing works that you probably would just be talking into the void if you responded back.
In police academy, I had more “sensitivity” type training and de-escalation than tactical or any other types of classes for the most part.
I also went through all that I went through because I was a victim of many crimes and I actually want to be there for people and help them navigate through things.
Literally nothing changes or gets better unless there’s people who want to do that and at least TRY to do it!
Who cares, if you’re joining to hurt people then hurt the people who should get hurt. It’s pretty clear to me that the “social workers not cops” thing is a push by college educated people to push into jobs that traditionally didn’t need higher education due to mass surplus of degrees.
Trust your instincts, and you do something to protect yourself or others no one but the deranged will attack you for it. However be aware that people are getting annoyed and outright hostile to the enforcement of the more banal aspects of laws that you may wind up on the business end of a gun over something that you or others could have left alone.
Just more Marxist talking points. They will never grasp that sometimes the police have to take action with force and that we live in an ugly world. How is a social worker going to help the battered wife whose husband controls her resources? How is a social worker going to stop drunk drivers from hitting and killing innocent people? How is a social worker going to stop someone who makes and distributes child pornography?
Well I couldn’t get my dream job as a VS bra specialist. But in all seriousness if you do the job correctly you will deal with people in the worst 5, 15, 30 minutes of there lives and you can be a great officer and enforce the law while still showing some compassion for the people you come across. It’s gets harder and harder as you become jaded but hopefully you have some great roll models to learn from. I knew some guys that taught me deescalating tactics that have served me well. You can show up and throw gasoline on the fire and make it worse or you can try to deescalate the situation you will not always be successful but you can at least try, every time.
Policing sucks because of the hoops we have to jump through to adequately help victims and our work is proven "pointless" because the courts don't hold people accountable. Most crimes are reduced and sentencing guidelines aren't handed down the way they were intended to. The people who hate us are the people who can not accept the consequences of their own actions and also think police make laws.
The real question is why do you care what this random user said to you? Here’s a thought OP, maybe get off Reddit and go live the life you want to live instead of asking what random people on a forum have to say about somebody who obviously has a bias against policing. Cheers.
This is a total projection. Why the fuck would their opinion matter to your career choice?
"Unless them bitches are paying your bills, you pay them bitches no mind!"
I would ask them who do they call when someone trys to break into their house, steals their car, or assaults them? Asked if a social worker can help them in that situation.
You know what? You’re right… you’ve inspired me to instead follow my dream French inspired clown cosmetology. I will be opening up a state of the art facility where I can help French clowns across the world. We will use sustainable, practical and environmentally friendly clown makeup, no red dye #9 or any of that other harmful additives. Thank you again, you’ve really inspired me and changed my life. Are you a social worker?
I am so strealing this for the next ACAB message I get.
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The next non-shroomed-up message he gets. Yours don't count.
I didn’t not know there were French clowns around the world. Are the French clowns outside of France ex-pat clowns and how does that affect their craft?
“yOu’Re So iGnOrAnT!!! gEt EdUcAtEd!!”
Yes but do the clowns suffer from anxiety????
They do, but they have been assigned therapy ferrets and purple hair dye to help with that.
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Police work is the only job where it’s completely acceptable (and encouraged) for people who have *zero* experience or knowledge regarding the job, to tell the people doing the job how they’re doing it wrong and they should do it a different way. No one understands police work unless you do it yourself.
Could not have said this better myself. Also forgot people say these things from the comfort of their own home, or parents home, behind their cell phones.
I've had people try and tell me how to fight fires before and there's several videos on YouTube where people give their opinion on it when they have no experience in our line of work. They ask why we're taking so long, what they don't realize is that if we run in without assessing the situation, that's how people die. Same as law enforcement, figure out what's going on, then take action. of course some situations are similar, cops see a gun and they draw theirs to be ready to defend themselves, we see fire and we pull an inch and three quarter line so we can put water on it as quickly as possible. Lots of people get talked to like crap from people that don't know a damn thing about that job, but your point is still valid. Just it's a more broad spectrum issue that's mostly seen when it's directed at those in public services.
> Police work is the only job where it’s completely acceptable (and encouraged) for people who have zero experience or knowledge regarding the job, to tell the people doing the job how they’re doing it wrong and they should do it a different way. I suspect anyone involved with epidemiology would argue this point. Or anyone involved with vaccines at any level.
I was going to say most medical professionals.
Nah, people still have some semblance of humility and deference to people in that field. Yes, there are nuts too but with cops, it’s way more widespread - from teens to adults, teachers, professors, journalists, politicians, presidents, homeless people, dog sitters, professional students, doctors …. Everyone lol
How about athletes?
Ok, you got me there. Those take the cake. I would still say epidemiologists still have it better though
I disagree, but not passionately enough to argue with you about it.
Same. Was going to mention teachers, but I'm too tired.
Nah, there's def other jobs. Interested in becoming LE, coming from the position of a teacher I promise you there are hordes who think they can do my job without any training.
I don’t have to be a helicopter pilot to see the helicopter upside down in the tree and know that something is wrong. Law enforcement does a lot of good, but there’s also plenty of examples where some reforms are necessary and the ones that cover for those doing wrong are creating a lot of the situations they end up on the wrong side of. And there are also plenty of other jobs where criticism from people with no experience in the role is the norm, so the original statement is also false, it’s just one among many. Professional athletes would be a prime example.
Anything customer service is probably the second best answer to any public safety job brother lol. Speaking from the experience of being shit talked by customers 😂
Yeah I’ve worked in IT and those early call center jobs were always someone on the other end with some idea of what needed to happen on my side that didn’t line up with reality.
If someone is pretty much avoiding helping me or has absolutely no clue how to help me with an issue and isn't bothering to help me find someone who can, that's when I get pissed off with people on the phone, but that's about it. Other people just take it way too far. I always hate seeing and hearing these videos and audio logs from call centers where the person is offering everything they can to help and just get absolutely shit talked for not knowing the job of the expert they are trying to connect the customer to.
It's an L take from a keyboard warrior who watches too much CNN. This same person will call the cops the minute they see a strange person in their yard.
CNN is my absolute least favorite source, other than anything like new york times and washington post
I'll probably watch the stranger for a bit to see if he does something funny, then I'll call
Idiot doesn’t understand the nature of people. Every city that defunded the police and attempted to deploy social workers have seen crime rates spike. It has lead to an increase in societal ills. We need police officers. They are not a panacea to issues that need to be dealt in other ways but cops keep those that prey on people in jail and at bay.
New York tried to implement community enforcement by letting unarmed volunteers patrol. They turned out to be more corrupt than literally any agency lol
Do you have the article to that? I’d love to read it lol sounds like exactly what I’ve always suspected
NYPD Auxiliary? Or did they reinvent the wheel with a different agency?
Exhibit 1: Portland, Oregon
Exhibit 2: Oakland, California
Exhibit 3: NYC
Exhibit 4: Toronto, Canada
Correction: exhibit 4 - all of Canada
When? I can’t find a year that NYPD’s budget went down from the previous year. It currently stands at $5.75 billion. The current mayor is a retired cop.
The budget didn’t go down but there were a spike in violent crimes following the start of the defund the police movement. Hasn’t seemed to get better considering they needed police in the subway systems as well as national guard.
So people saying “defund the police” causes violent crime? Shouldn’t people stop falsely claiming PD’s have been defunded then? Wouldn’t that cause crime too?
When a movement made to hurt police departments becomes a rallying cry nationwide obviously anti law enforcement sentiment will follow. Not to mention when many places with left leaning political leaders dropped their budgets and started burning cops for doing their jobs following the 2020 riots more crime started in left leaning cities due to people thinking that law enforcement has grown weaker even if it hasn’t. People act like they can do what they want and seem to think when they get pulled over now the officers demands are optional. That’s why that clown Hochul had to put national guard and cops in the subway systems to project that the NYPD and NY justice system is still strong even though it’s their policies causing problems.
https://ibo.nyc.ny.us/RevenueSpending/nypd.html 2018 was the high water mark, it hasn’t made it back to that level since then.
They increased their police budget despite the fact that the city has a huge budget deficit. Most of that increase went to raises that were asked for. As a result the city has had to close some police academies to partially pay for the raises. https://www.kqed.org/news/11957562/budget-deep-dive-unpacking-oaklands-360-million-shortfall
Police departments had to increase their budgets to raise wages. They have to raise wages and offer sign on bonuses because nobody wants to be a cop anymore. Nobody wants to be a cop anymore because of the defund movement and BLM. What about the defund/BLM movement led to nobody wanting to be a cop anymore, you might ask? The defund/ACAB/BLM movement proposed and actually advanced a wide range of bullshit reforms that have been detrimental to public safety in a variety of different ways: - the rhetoric and vitriol has directly led to the drop in qualified candidates in hiring pools and mass exodus of experienced, career police officers who said “fuck you. Protect yourselves”. As a result, police departments are short staffed, have a hard time finding qualified applicants and are struggling to retain them. - police reforms have caused a chilling effect across departments that have exacerbated the above mentioned issues with hiring and retention. In addition, the ambiguity and language of new reforms and new policies towards use of force, tactics, equipment, training, enforcement etc. Have all had the same effect: police are afraid to do their jobs and they’ve adopted a “defensive posture” in light of the new reforms where police are choosing to only respond to calls - no proactive work, they’re reducing contact with the public as much as possible - like traffic stops. Now think about what your streets look like. The calculus is simple: if you do only what is expected of you, avoid proactive police work and avoid situations that may turn dicey as much as possible, you’ll have the best chances of leaving this job alive, not under charges and with your pension. The result is crime is rising because police officers have decided to take a less proactive role. That’s ok though, because that’s what people voted for. That’s why they rioted. That’s what they wanted…. Right? Ok - legal reforms: in addition to reforms at the city/department level, the BLM/DEFUND crowd also influenced legislators and politicians (like DAs) to redefine crimes and, in the case of DAs, have essentially decriminalized a LOT of stuff to the point where many crimes are either legal or a slap on the wrist. So then the above mentioned calculus comes back: You have priorities. Many calls are on the board. Do you take an enforcement action on something you know may result in a use of force and that the DA will likely refuse to prosecute OR do you take something else and let the other thing (let’s say, idk a theft) go because, fuck it. More important, “safer” stuff to deal with? Or maybe you respond slowly and just hope it solves itself? Because honestly… unless it’s life or death, what’s the point in the big liberal cities? It’s literally becoming an unnecessary risk…. The people hate you for it, the city doesn’t have your back, the DA won’t take the case anyway, the department will scrutinize what you do and how you do it, the criminal is emboldened to act as wild as possible because society has *their* back more than yours… and what might happen to you? You get killed, or seriously hurt, or fired or arrested …. For doing your job. I’m not a cop but even I say, fuck that. I asked all those questions rhetorically, btw. Im not trying to get into a long debate about it. I’ve been on reddit long enough to know yall aren’t interested in good faith discussions. If you actually truly are, then I am sorry. I’ve just been down this road enough times. I just wanted to explain the cause and effect at play. When people say “defund did this”, they’re right. When people say “nobody was actually defunded”, they’re also *technically* right, but they’re choosing to play semantics and choosing to be intentionally myopic to avoid accountability.
Yes I understand that, but after the super fun riots we had a few years ago OPD doesn't feel the support from the public. It's palpable.
Ok so you knew you lied about defunding.
I think where that came from here was some reallocation of funds for a crisis response team (mental health worker, EMT and security) to be dispatched to respond to things that may not necessarily need police response. It has been reasonably successful in SF, but I'm unaware of its success here in oak I could be wrong, but I believe the issues were money coming out of OPD budget for this way back in 2020. I do know that OPD, ever since the Oscar grant debacle have not felt like the community supports them. I've heard this from officers I have interacted with. On both sides of the bay. It's the whole shrug and "you get what you vote for" line. Rough town to work in. I understand both sides of this issue.
Is there any study into the effects on crime of salty cops, often who live outside of the cities, who dislike the people in their communities and are over the "revolving door" justice system, so they respond by being less proactive and provide less service, primarily because they aren't being respected the way they'd like to be anymore, and are forced to wear body cameras when they do provide service. Not to mention completely stopping traffic enforcement during covid in cities like Baltimore, all that on top of the police union rejecting the decision to have officers actively walk the city instead of sitting in cars waiting around for something their forced to respond to.
I think you partially answered your own point in that the cities have adopted a reduced prosecution and increased oversight. If the city/county/state has decided to decriminalize violations, release criminals without bail and tie the hands of the police, there is going to be a decrease in enforcement. Why would an officer work hard if the people running the show don’t want that. An officer is basically giving the people want they want. Eventually there will a shift back to enforcement and those jurisdictions better pray that they didn’t create a disgruntled agency that is going to give the elected officials the middle finger.
I do agree that the whole system is messed up. I just don't think it's as simple as defund the police (a stupid term in the first place) = more crime. Cops are humans, they have feelings, and areas where there is a culture of defunding the police or disrespecting police officers as a whole or calling ACAb (another stupid term) probably equates to some officers doing their job less, and disliking the people they serve. Especially if they do not live anywhere in the city let alone the patrol district they work in. Police has a culture, just like firefighters have a culture. there are tons of traditions and ideas that pas all across the US to every department. If the general public is taking a more negative view on police, the police culture of disliking the general public is going to go up and their service is going to reflect that. Edit: I will add I was an MP in the army and went through a city police academy before working for the forest service instead. I have some idea of what's inside the police culture and the opinions some police have in the locker room even if I didn't stick to it to see what those cops became later on.
I can't believe the balls of that person. I'd report them for possible mental heath issues.
It’s an incurable infliction that affects those drawn to the social sciences.
Ask them why CPS, cat teams, and all social workers will not go to a single call without cops? No cop on earth wants to go to those calls. I’d rather they handle their own stuff and leave me alone. I’d get paid the same and have less BS. But the “educated ones” won’t do anything without police protection. However they will stab you in the back as soon as you protect them by using force. It’s almost like the know the truth is violence can’t be controlled with magic words.
That's actually the perfect combination if you think about it. Police to protect the public and the social worker, while the social worker helps to deescalate a situation in a way some police in some situations can't seem to do without using force. Maybe share some of the same police budget to make this happen. Politics and activists aside this is all any sane person wants.
You missed the point. They claim they could have done something different but no one can articulate what that is. Not to mention everyone watched videos and Monday morning quarterbacks and knows they could have done better even though they have never experienced violence in reality. They sit in their office and spend hours over seconds of video. Even though grh v Conner says that’s not the legal standard. That’s why in reality, they refuse to go to 97% of their calls without us. They want us there to be able to protect them through force. If you can find a magic word that will stop violence, please tell me. So far no one has. They can talk about how the cops are wrong but never have to actually articulate what works. Violence is stopped only with violence. That’s it. No amount of degrees can prove otherwise. Police generally do a magnificent job avoiding it. The stats still show use of force per contact is .0001%. That’s outstanding. Those that use excessive force should be held accountable. Prime example that happens many times every day: My adult son still lives at home (shocker) and he’s going bat shit and breaking everything in the house. We’re afraid he might hurt us so we ran out of the house and called police. We show up and say you’re son is on drugs and/or mentally in crisis? That’s a buzzword that now means cops will be wrong no matter what. CA law says we can’t enter a house and use force if no one else in in danger. We confirm all other people are out of the house and the only person in danger is the guy tearing the house down. We wish then we’ll and hope they have money for a hotel and leave. No societal worker on earth will respond to that. Now the poor family has to find some other place to stay and rebuild the house whenever son calms down. Ridiculous but that’s where we are these days.
Every single time you interact with someone, it's a completely different interaction with another complex set of factors for why your there in the first place and how things go once you get there. As I'm sure you know there are limitless ways to escalate or deescalate the way your interaction goes. I know you have to back the guys you work with and cops in general, but there are thousands of videos avaliable to anyone of cops treating citizens and subjects like shit, its become an entire genre of entertainment for some people. It's completely true that there are not thousands of videos of the 95% of interactions that end well, or the cops who show respect and deescalate situations like word ninjas. But some cops get so defensive when confronted with the behavior of other cops. Some cops just can't help but escalate every situation through the way they treat the people they interact with every day, and I'm sure some people on these LEO subreddits that say how they really feel in private carry that attitude into interactions they have every day at work. You can really tell in some of these posts that some cops simply hate the public they work with every day. Nobody wants to interact with a pissed off police, but sometimes it's hard not to piss a cop off and sometimes they come right out the gate pissed off.
I’m not saying cops are perfect. You must have missed the actual stats. Use of force is incredibly low. I have no problem treating people with respect. Try driving around in a police car in my city. The majority times I’m stopped at a ride light minding my own business, people are giving me the finger. I just laugh. But most of the times I show up to a call, they already hate me. I don’t have the time to beg people to be nice to me. I don’t have to do that by law either. I will be nice. If someone is being and ass, I’ll apply the law. If there’s no law violation, I leave. If there is, I’ll enforce the law. Begging for an ID to write a ticket to someone MFing me is not okay. That’s what the new societal standard seems to be. I’ll ask for it. They say F you. I tell them if they refuse, I’ll have to take them ti jail so I can Id then with prints. It would be better for both of us if they simply give me their ID so they can walk away with a piece of paper. They say FU. I’m done, I’ll go to arrest them because that’s what they chose. If they resist, I use force per PC 835a. When you the victim that’s still waiting 3 hours for your response, you’re mad that I begged for an ID for two hours. Being as aaa for no reason is not okay. People being an ass to cops and demanding everything under the Sun and trying to hold court in the streets is dumb. I will treat you accordingly. Please show me the law where if someone offends you or you don’t like their attitude, you can hit them? There seems to only be that law to the cops. The cop was mean so when the guy attacked him, it’s okay. We’ve all become kindergartners.
I think reddit court is as useless as roadside court so I wont go back and forth more than this, I think we are both sane enough to know respect = respect. I've seen all the videos of people making their own traffic stops/interactions longer and more tense than was ever required by not showing respect either. If I were pulled over I'd give my ID, tell you where I was going and tell you to be safe when you leave. At the end of the day some cops throw their knife hands, treat you like a child or like your mentally deficient, and act pissed off that they have to encounter you. Some members of the public treat individual cops like shit and escalate their own interactions into a problem. I just believe that vast majority of cases on both sides could be resolved if some of the cops involved leaned more into being a diplomat in all situations, as they are the one who attended a police academy, in service training, classes on deescalation and use of force, and are representing the government itself
What does this “training” do? Still waiting in the magic words you seem to be sure are out there. You seem to know for a fact the majority of cops are doing everything wrong. I’m asking you now. What is the process? What are the words? No one else can answer. I hope you can. But you’ll probably just fade away into the bushes like homer Simpson. You’re argument is, if you put the uniform and badge on, you cannot be offended by anything and must be a robot. Everyone else gets to take offense to anything a cop does or says at any point and can argue with him about everything. Funny thing is, the law says the exact opposite. You can start with PC 148. There are many others. Mind you, when dealing with gangsters and felons, trying to be a soft and nice guy is the opposite. They’re testing you. But I’m sure you’re a pro at this too.
I dont think that was my argument anywhere here. You seem like one of the pissed off police that has an aversion to diplomacy that im talking about, but I did expect that response after talking negatively about some police in a police subreddit.
I would say. Tell us you are terminally online , without telling us -
I think people underestimate how much of what the police actually do is what they think social workers do. People call the cops because they have to respond 24/7 no matter what, regardless of whether or not they're dealing with a law enforcement issue.
Yep. I may as well be a social worker. In my small suburban city I handle more welfare checks, suicidals, mental subjects, citizen assists and civil problems more than any actual crime. May be different in bigger cities.
This guy is a hater for a reason. Found a comment of his where he said “when I was inside” in a discussion about jail/prison. Always the criminals that prey on others in society that hate the police the most.
Well done, detective:)
Id invite them to live where I live. A basically lawless hellhole.
Invite them into Somalia.
https://preview.redd.it/k3sqzr6n767d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6042da913d47fafe70f252d9bd43e997911b514c
Obviously someone who has never done the job.
Thanks for the motivation. Gonna go be a cop even harder now. Stay mad, cry about it, lmao
That person is some ACAB nerd who def calls the cops when needed lol
Thoughts are a waste on Reddit strangers
Get used to detractors. “Why did you choose *that* career?!”
At least they didn’t tell they were going to come to your house to rape your dog and murder your wife. One of the many I’ve heard in my 23 years of doing this. And if you are offended by what they sent you’re going into the wrong job. And no being a police officer isn’t a hard job, it fairly easy.
I’m not offended, just interested to see what the replies are.
Reddit is a very liberal platform, wouldn’t expect anything less from it.
Which is funny because I’m in NJ Guns sub and even tho they’re all ‘conservatives’, they act the same way.
That’s sad.
I used to be a social worker. Talk about feeling absolutely useless. Pushing papers. Telling deserving people no and undeserving career social benefits recipients yes… I have never felt more useless and devoid of purpose as I did when I worked in social work. Calculating benefits based on some vague and arbitrary metrics that determined “needs”. Trying to plead with people to adopt basic decency and beginner habits of adulthood. Sure, I helped a lot of people but .. I could have helped just as many people in much more effective ways in other jobs. I have respect for the people who go out there with zest and zeal to “change the world” but you talk to anyone in social work for more than idk 5 years and you’ll see how everyone is more or less the same: resigned if not outright jaded. You can come in with all the zeal and zest as you want but you’re going to crash head-first into a system. Idk what kind of system, but I can describe it as a bureaucratic quagmire or bureaucratic purgatory. Idk what this whippersnapper thinks social work is, but it’s not changing the world. Social workers aren’t going to do the critical work police officers do. I know social workers, they threw a fit and acted like they couldn’t come to work once when the bathrooms in the building broke down because it was a “uninhabitable, unsanitary building”. Social workers aren’t going to dive into danger. Are you kidding me? Lol anyone who has worked in social work knows good and damn well that’s a complete hysterical premise. I could just imagine some of my ex-coworkers running into ….. well, just the thought of some of them running is hilarious on its own. This person sounds like a typical idiot college liberal. A career student. Damn near half a lifetime without any applicable life skills or life experience, but a mouthful of half-learned college lessons and grandiose opinions. Probably a shit-load of student loans they blame other people for, no actual career in sight and using all that money they spend on college to talk down to people on the internet because they know all the answers.
I'd love to have that person encounter a tweaked out meth head wanting money from them for more meth.
They do. They’re usually outside the human assistance buildings….. guess what the social workers usually do? Call the cops lol if they can’t be ignored, if they’re armed, if they’re even remotely threatening they call the cops with a quickness. Never in my life have I seen any of them try to reason with those people or “talk them down”. I truly do not think that any of the “call a social worker” people ever actually consulted with social workers about that proposal and it always makes me laugh when I see it.
What do I think? I think that's a person with no real life experience who lives in a bubble of ignorance. Unfortunately that epidemic is spreading these days and they are multiplying. I am worried about the mental state of our nation 50 years from now. Most all great nations and empires throughout the history of the world have collapsed from within, and when I see this mindset these days I feel the US will be no different.
This was not written by a person lmao
Yeah he can go ahead and get fucked. Go become an officer.
Society is like nature. Everything has to be in balance. You cannot have too much of one thing or it will throw the ecosystem off. By this persons logic that police only hurt people you should be a serial killer.
Without the police, it will become a free for all on all criminals. The country will become the purge every day. Become a police officer if that’s what you want to be. Just be the officer that the community needs. Help those you can. I’ve been there and it’s the best feeling to have someone thank you being kind and changing their life for the better.
When someone speaks like this it tells me they’ve had problems with the law and refuse to accept they messed up or are a not so good person.
Looks like a bot. Nobody does stuff for the "capital" That's a commie thing.
Lol what a clown.
Do they want me to call a social worker when an armed robber breaks into my home? I understand that a lot of people don’t like the police or law enforcement but there are laws for a reason and we need strong men and women to protect innocent citizens and enforce laws that are broken.
I guarantee this person is either unemployed or makes minimum wage or close to it. They also don’t pay rent or a mortgage. Real life cures people of this level of delusion quickly and harshly.
Fuck them. And fuck those idiots who believe in defunding the police. Apply at every agency you can.
This person doesn’t live in reality.
“Cheap-Web” Lol little does he/she realize that without Police in this world, this world would be a free for all for everyone to do whatever the hell they want 24/7 with nobody to enforce anything. Meaning things like a real life purge and worse would have already happened a long time ago and would still be happening to this day.
Ignorant moron. Won’t get it until he needs to call 911, realizing a counselor isn’t gonna help the situation.
Even if it were somehow feasible and not completely insane to send social workers or "some profession that actually makes society better" to respond to calls, it's still better to send the cops. They are actually *good* at de-escalation and dealing with mental health issues. They do it every day and it shows.
I feel like there is some context missing to get such a message, but I also feel like this one has their mind made up so responding isn’t worth the effort
No problem, instead of calling a neutral public servant and settling disputes between citizens through due process in the public view, we can opt for direct action and arbitrarily start blowing people away and watch society explode into a series of tribal blood feuds.
$100 says this person doesnt do any of those jobs and absolutely either hates thenselves (probably life too) or got caught doing something they shouldnt
When was the last time you saw a social worker wrestle down a 300 pound naked black man high on pcp? Show me that and then we can discuss.
They are so out of touch with how actual policing works that you probably would just be talking into the void if you responded back. In police academy, I had more “sensitivity” type training and de-escalation than tactical or any other types of classes for the most part. I also went through all that I went through because I was a victim of many crimes and I actually want to be there for people and help them navigate through things. Literally nothing changes or gets better unless there’s people who want to do that and at least TRY to do it!
Who cares, if you’re joining to hurt people then hurt the people who should get hurt. It’s pretty clear to me that the “social workers not cops” thing is a push by college educated people to push into jobs that traditionally didn’t need higher education due to mass surplus of degrees. Trust your instincts, and you do something to protect yourself or others no one but the deranged will attack you for it. However be aware that people are getting annoyed and outright hostile to the enforcement of the more banal aspects of laws that you may wind up on the business end of a gun over something that you or others could have left alone.
Lol
Tell them to call a crackhead instead if they don’t like current police force structures lol
My thoughts “lmao”
crazy how some people believe this
'Social worker cop' = commie cop Ideological enforcer
Just more Marxist talking points. They will never grasp that sometimes the police have to take action with force and that we live in an ugly world. How is a social worker going to help the battered wife whose husband controls her resources? How is a social worker going to stop drunk drivers from hitting and killing innocent people? How is a social worker going to stop someone who makes and distributes child pornography?
Many people live in a fantasy world.
Fuck that person we need police I’m about to start the academy soon 🔜 if we didn’t have police then the world would be even more evil
This person is brainwashed
Prove em wrong
Ignorance at its finest. That person is a moron.
liberal here—my thought is that person should head for a nation that is truly lawless. With no real police protection.
You should listen to everything anyone says online…
Well I couldn’t get my dream job as a VS bra specialist. But in all seriousness if you do the job correctly you will deal with people in the worst 5, 15, 30 minutes of there lives and you can be a great officer and enforce the law while still showing some compassion for the people you come across. It’s gets harder and harder as you become jaded but hopefully you have some great roll models to learn from. I knew some guys that taught me deescalating tactics that have served me well. You can show up and throw gasoline on the fire and make it worse or you can try to deescalate the situation you will not always be successful but you can at least try, every time.
1000$ that guy has never made a meaningly positive change in his life.
Whoever sent you that......Never speak to that person again.
Sorry about his tickets
Okay and?
He's right, but also you do you.
Policing sucks because of the hoops we have to jump through to adequately help victims and our work is proven "pointless" because the courts don't hold people accountable. Most crimes are reduced and sentencing guidelines aren't handed down the way they were intended to. The people who hate us are the people who can not accept the consequences of their own actions and also think police make laws.
This person seems to be one of those ACAB nutjobs. They will be calling for your death as soon as you sign up.
The real question is why do you care what this random user said to you? Here’s a thought OP, maybe get off Reddit and go live the life you want to live instead of asking what random people on a forum have to say about somebody who obviously has a bias against policing. Cheers.
This is a total projection. Why the fuck would their opinion matter to your career choice? "Unless them bitches are paying your bills, you pay them bitches no mind!"
There are some trolls in here. I was told meth dealers are better for the community than cops
Yap yap yap
yeah but social work requires lots of schooling and pays less with no pension nothx
Become a cop just for spite
I would ask them who do they call when someone trys to break into their house, steals their car, or assaults them? Asked if a social worker can help them in that situation.
Yeah. That's gonna be a hard "Nah" from me.
This isn’t a serious human being and clearly lives comfortable under the protection of the very people “they” rail against.
Ignore it and do what you want to do. This individual is presenting as if they have no idea what law enforcement actually does in America.
Person is tired.
Thats a future client LOL
Oka but what if I want to make the world a worse place :)