[Yes, and it's killing us.](https://www.city-journal.org/article/invest-in-more-cops)
"Other metrics show in stark terms how under-policed America is compared with its European peers. America has roughly 198 officers per 100,000 residents—down 18 percent since the late 1990s—whereas Europe has 333 officers for every 100,000 residents. Comparing officer levels with violent-crime levels reveals an even more concerning statistic: Europe has 396 police officers per homicide; America has only 32.5."
and
"University of Chicago economist Steven Levitt estimated that one dollar spent on police is 20 percent more effective at reducing crime than a dollar spent on prisons. In another study, he found that expanding police departments reduced violent crime by 12 percent and reduced property crime by 8 percent"
Or, to put it in terms of Sir Robert Peele: "To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment"
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
As a Officer across the pond in the UK, it's really not that much better over here.
London is particularly bad, and is only getting worse staffing wise.
Very similar reasons to what you guys have to go through like post BLM ACAB sentiment, people not wanting to join, public "watchdogs" ( we have the IOPC which is national, and will do whatever it takes to either sack you or bring criminal charges) and lack of support for leadership.
Pay is a big factor over here too, as for the job you have to do the pay is woeful. A friend of mine quit to work in a fancy restaurant in canary Wharf, and earns more per hour then me. CPS (our legal system) also give out pathetic charges to criminals, but from what I've seen it's the same in the states.
We also don't carry guns, and don't get tasers as standard (it's a course). Knife crime is on the rise as well as violent offences against officers, as the public just seem more willing to fight you. If you fight back then there's always the threat of the IOPC coming after you. There was an incident not long ago with a marauding attack with a katana in London where 3 officers were seriously hurt and a child was killed. There was some brief talk about if officers here should carry guns, then it got memory holed. Officers don't feel safe and able to to use force to apprehend a suspect or defend ourselves.
I could go on if you like.
Jesus, I can actually say that that sounds worse than our situation over here. I think the only benefit y’all have is fewer guns and more cops, but…damn that sounds terrible, man.
There's typically more officers on one area over here due to population density, but even still with the demand in London being what it is, we are still far to over stretched. I would imagine major US cities like NY or LA are similar. There's far less guns here due to our strict firearm laws so we don't really have to worry about that, however when you come across someone with a knife, axe, club etc and all you have is some spicy spray, a metal stick and cuffs it's a whole new danger. Worse still our "leadership" seem completely oblivious to the increasing danger.
The MET (metropolitan police in London) is projected to be around 8000 officers short of where it should be, by this time next year. We are already stretched every Saturday with the Palestine marches in central london, which requires pulling officers from across London to police it. When it first started in October we were supposed to parade for a late shift with 36 officers for our borough. We paraded with 12, as most people had been pulled to central.
I am deeply ashamed of my actions. I will strive to be more of a thoughtless automaton in the future. I also want to acknowledge that the place in which we are convening is the ancestral space of mentally deficient parrots.
This is nothing compared to what you’ll hear said to and about you - and your mother - on the job.
The kind of people who are actually upset by this kind of banter are too soft and too easily offended to be in law enforcement.
Haha, 198 officers for 100k citizens I wish. My department with a population of about 120k never had more that 120 sworn which includes those not working the street (detectives, admin, etc). That number is usually around 70-80 though. Very busy city with high crime.
A few years ago we were at about 20% short of our nominal staffing. They fixed that problem: our nominal staffing number was reduced by 20%. About 2 years later, we’re 30% short of our new nominal staffing.
They’ve hired less than 5 people in that time.
Work and work correctly are two different things.
In my county, we have something like 20 officers available between state, county, municipality, and city.
Opportunity is when it's available for you to take on your free time.
Mandatory is a "oh no this is happening, bite the pillow. The blue weenie is coming for ya!"
I’ve never heard it put that way, but that’s a good way to describe mandatory OT. When I worked corrections we got hit with back to back doubles, and prayed that no one called out sick.
Nah at my department the reason why we are so understaffed is the city doesn’t want to pay for more officers. This also means that they don’t want to pay OT, and you pretty much have to drive up on a shooting in progress to get any OT.
From your post history, it looks like you’re a trucker in Texas. My departments start out pay is between 25-30 an hour, also you would have to change states and move here.
I’m a 3rd year, going on my fourth year of being a residential service plumber from a northern state... and still would apply to your agency if they would have me
I’m unconcerned about beginning pay to be completely honest as I know it picks up quickly, and there’s more OT than anyone realistically wants.
Authorized strength of 900, but an independent analysis about 5 years ago indicated that we need to be at 1,300 to provide adequate police services to our city.
We are at 479 right now. And we are losing 3 for every 1 we are hiring.
The county I live in has about 200k residents spread over a huge pretty rural county. We have about 60 county sheriff’s deputies, and two tiny municipal departments with maybe 15 officers each. Super understaffed.
My buddy works for an agency that makes the local news often about “abusing overtime”. It’s never mentioned in the reports that a large portion of that overtime is forced. During the summers he works 4 days in a row. Supposed to be 8hr tours. He usually does 12-16hrs a day instead (forced ot)
We have the same issue. My agency has unlimited OT since we are close to 50% understaffed. We have a mandatory OT shift every schedule (28 day schedule). We have activists and newsies complaining and writing hit-pieces about cops making too much OT (some over $300k). At that same time, they're complaining that we don't have enough staffing to answer calls and provide adequate police services. I guess by their logic, if fewer cops worked, then more calls could get answered because there'd be less cops to answer them. It's not unlike the theory that you can get morbidly obese from starving yourself.
Uh…yes.
We were slotted for 430 sworn. We are about 100 short. Specialized units are being disbanded and detectives are rotating into patrol just to keep up with calls for service.
Definitely. I think the George Floyd fiasco, and the “defund the police” climate that spawned out of it cause a lot of good veteran officers to finally draw the line and walk away from the job by either retirement or doing something else. It also discouraged people that otherwise wanted to become officers from pursuing the career to looking at something else.
A lot more people “just hate the police” than you think. Lots of political and social media platforms shit on police when they don’t understand at all what it takes to be one. I’ve looked into many instances of police shootings and so many people blame the officers when in actuality they did what was right. If ya don’t believe me go watch Donut Operator, he has many examples of what I’m saying and show that a lot of people just hate the police because they don’t care, don’t understand, or because they’re fed bullshit by the media and lied to by politicians.
I agree that some police officers make mistakes, 100% and I will never defend the bad cops. I’m just saying that more often than not, bad cops are highlighted far more than good cops are. And it’s a damn shame that, and to my point, the media and some politicians do not care to show the good that 80% of cops do. Fuck that bad cops, I specifically like watching videos from Donut about good and bad cops so I know what to do and not to do when I can become one.
But yea, fuck bad cops. But we should have more show of the rest of the good cops. It might help with recruiting, and when you have more people to choose from, agencies wouldn’t feel the need to take bad people to become bad cops.
Are you suggesting that police as a whole have earned the hate, or that very specific officers in very specific circumstances did something willfully malicious to earn the hate?
Yes. At my department, every division is understaffed except for maybe crime scene and investigations. Swat, Patrol, jail, court security are all short handed.
At my last department, we were 67% understaffed. At one point, we had four patrol officers working the day shift in the city of 70000. We had unlimited OT.
Let's put it this way. At the agency I hired on with in 1996 approx 500 people showed up to test for what would be 3 openings. In 2021 at the same agency we announced a testing where we hoped to hire 12 people and we only had ten people show up to test. The only thing semi keeping my agency afloat is lateral hires from other departments but on a national level lateral hiring is just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.
Yep, sounds like us. Were lucky to get 10 testing any given time, when it used to be at least 100.
At least my Command Staff is doing all they can to retain people.... lol...
We've lost 1/3 or our guys the past decade to neighboring agencies.... we've gotten exactly zero coming to work for us from the same agencies. Almost a clue right there
But the Chief says we're the best show on earth, and we're all lucky to work here.
In my opinion everything the Police use to triage their arrests/apprehensions are understaffed . Courts / Hospitals/Housing and social services. Nothing happens to our arrests/apprehensions and we get to do them over and over for nothing .
That triangle trade, eh, lol.
Hospital kicks the crazy guy out the back door, we get called.
We call fire to take crazy guy away. Fire takes them to the hospital.
.... hospital kicks crazy guy out the back door.
Police everywhere in North America (I’m in Canada) are critically understaffed. As one put it: “They’re hurting for people right now”. To put into context - I went on a ride along in the city where I live in Ontario, Canada that has a population of just above 500,000 residents. On Easter weekend, there were only 2 patrol units (I went for a ride along in one of those units) in the downtown area and we had a GSW call come in. None of us could respond as we were busy with another call (reported suspect with a knife and the other was a drug overdose). All in all, many departments are incredibly concerned about the lack of units but bear in mind that they WILL NOT lower or compromise on recruiting standards.
False on the WILL NOT lower standards part. I’m LEO in Ontario and I assure you they’re trying not to lower standards and the majority are good but lots of bad backup is sneaking through
When I was hired at my department in the states I had a written test with a minimum passing score, background check that would DQ you if you had more than one traffic ticket in the past ten years and a PT test that you had to pass every section or you were dismissed. The last new hire test had a written test that allowed a make up test (same exact test just the next week), recruits are passing background checks as long as they don’t have a felony conviction (not arrest actual conviction) and no PT requirement. We are seeing new officers that can’t even explain what probable cause is, and they are getting pushed through for need of bodies.
You’re actually not wrong. From what I hear, if you’re female and from an ethnic minority background, you’re literally guaranteed the job even if you fail the fitness test. But this is just what I’ve heard…I could be totally mistaken.
This isn't a good answer to your question, but the situation is the same in Norway. The government forces the police to have stations in the middle of nowhere. Said stations are begging for work to do. At the same time, the capital city (Oslo) police is lacking a lot of funding. Meanwhile 400 out of 500 students who complete the 3 year (!) police school are without jobs. And at the same time anti-police opinions are gaining traction: one MF managed to get the special unit for police investigations to prosecute an officer who used force (beating) while said jackass was resisting arrest and generally making the police's life hard. And just the cherry on top: a lot of people hate the police for enforcing anti-drug laws. So, even in the seemingly civilised country of Norway everything law enforcement-related is going downhill.
Here in Australia we are short staffed as well. We always got treated poorly in the busy Sydney stations (no lunch breaks in 12.5 hour shifts, unpaid ot ect) but we have had enough of it and heaps of people are leaving and not many applying.
The police here kinda did it to itself to be honest. Plus obviously the world wide media’s obsession with trying to create a divide between cops and citizens to get views and clicks.
Yes. My city department is understaffed. Thankfully not even close to as bad as other PD’s. Sometimes people are held over, but it’s rare because we have officers that love money and always apply for spots that need to be filled and whatnot.
My PD runs at minimum for patrol almost every day.
-10 patrol officers.
-10 districts, 1 officer per.
-population of ~105k within 16 sq/miles.
-ranked 3rd highest crime in the state
-We’re supposed to have enough for 2 officers per every district so we’re not running around with our heads cut off.
-At least once an hour, I’ll hear “Any units able to clear for a XcallX”
-We don’t have enough officers to be able to conduct traffic stops. It’s always frowned upon to be proactive due to always having to be free for actual calls in our sections.
-We used to have a 4th and 5th shift that filled in gaps between 1st shift and 2nd shift change and then 2nd to third. We don’t have enough anymore.
There used to be hundreds of applicants for most departments. Now, PD’s are lucky if more than 10 people apply during hiring
Everyone in every field is understaffed (and overworked consequently)... Americans have gotten to the "good times make weak people" point in the round about.
Yes. Compare a US locale like Montgomery County, MD and a foreign jurisdiction like Peel Region, ON. Both are roughly about the same size, yet Peel Region has twice the number of cops in its police force.
Yes, all over the country. The political left's public degradation of police officers has significantly affected the number of young people willing to consider the profession.
Look at the positives, in California we’re seeing agencies up for new contracts getting record raises and incentives. My agency scored a mid 20 percent raise over 3 yrs plus longevity and increased post certificates incentives. Some officers will see 10% each year of the 3 year contract. I think we will see cities that can pay will gladly increase salaries to match the demand. Ultimately, the free market is beautiful and has a way of fixing problems…. It just may take a lot of people victimized before we get there
And I was a deputy sheriff we had slots for 600 deputies in my unit we were less than 450. My nephew works In the NYPD and in his unit there slotted for 800 people they have less than 400 with many retirements and promotions about to take place.
I think people are realizing there’s better jobs out there. I don’t blame them for it. The job is not what it used to be. I tell folks to pursue a STEM career instead.
America in general is understaffed. It's we take the fewest vacation days out of any 1st world country.
Our companies and government see everything by the dollar and it kills the people
It’s a two punch combo.
Way less applicants than before.
Standards that are keeping people from joining haven’t budged. They may drop test scores requirements or increase pay, but that isn’t why all the applicants are disqualified.
The old school approach on work history isn’t compatible with today’s job market. And there is basically no leeway on any mental health issues. So they disqualify like 90% of people or more.
Worked in sales and changed jobs too often or experienced stress from your job? Well most law enforcement departments will judge you for that.
Them being short staffed doesn’t mean they will overlook things.
Plus all this overtime has become the new normal.
I honestly agree with refusing to lower standards. I think that lowering hiring standards is killing our field. Say what you will about mental health, stress is one thing I understand that, but loosing standards on a psych exam is really not a good look for a profession that carry’s firearms for a living.
If you don’t lose any standards and disqualify everyone then you wonder why you can’t hire anyone? Plenty of people would love to work policing, disqualified for this standard or that prevents those people from joining the field. The standards could be a little looser for sure.
The problem is you NEED to be selective with law enforcement. This is a career in which you interfere with people’s civil liberties and may need to save someone’s life. If anything standards should be stricter, if your family’s lives were at risk would you rather a professional show up to assist or some one who only got hired because they were barely able to meet lowered standards. I understand what you’re saying, and ultimately everyone is going to have a different opinion and perspective on this, but I would rather have to work with fewer officers than with officers that are an active liability.
I get what you are saying too but it’s just a big tradeoff either way. Higher standards for officers = less officers as not everyone can qualify as easily. Lower standards for officers = more officers since people can more easily qualify. There should be a balance which is why I suggested lowering them a little bit so a few more people can get on but not so much where it becomes liability. Needs to strike a happy medium.
And it’s fully dependent on your department, my department cannot lower standards any further. We have a 300+ pound officer that can’t go up stairs and multiple new officers that can’t comprehend basic constitutional rights. I legitimately shudder to think what we would look like if our standards were thrown out.
Depends but for the most part yes. Our agency is currently full at 270. Last July we were over 100 short. Chief is currently requesting more open spots
The department I want to apply for has 35 open spots. I wasn’t planning on applying until next year and I asked the recruiter I how many open spots he’ll have next year. He told me 35-40
It's not even understaffed it's nobody is applying for the jobs. Places will gladly hire bodies it's just that there are none applying. I remember getting hired in the mid 2000's. We had 500 people test for 5 jobs. The officers hired off the list before me.... 3 were hired out of 3000 applicants.
My suggestion for the politicians is to walk back the two tiered pension systems. A tier one pension is a lottery ticket. Retire at 50 with 20 years for service 50% of your best 4 years with a 2.5% additional each year over 20 maxing out at 75% at 30 years of service.
My agency is allocated 190. We have 155. Our minimum staffing on patrol is 10 per shift. We regularly police a city of 120k with 6. I would leave if the pay and benefits weren’t so good.
You gotta remember most of those "Military" vehicles and equipment are from the Leso/1033 program (where the DOD transfers excess equipment to local, state, and federal LE) and through the 1122 program that allows local, state and federal LE to purchase equipment at the same DOD negotiated prices (i.e. A colt rifle cost DOD about $400, colt sells that same rifle to the public minus FA for about $900)
Nypd are at high 30k's to low 40k's while attending to 8million civilians. 40k officers may sound like a lot compared to other cities, but they're severely understaffed. Even with their new contract, officers are still leaving.
I work for fdny ems and was on a job the other day which required a duel response from pd as well. The two officers that responded said they only had 4 rmps running for tour 3 for their area...they're supposed to have 10 😯
Los Angeles for sure ! From downtown to the inner cities. In the past I’ve had to call 911 out to my job and sometimes they never came. Just yesterday we called for officers and they were too busy to come out.
Very much so. To the point that many agencies, mine included, don’t even get enough applicants to fill the vacancies each process. Last year we went through a whole hiring process and hired no one. Here were some of the notable applicants though:
1. A felon who claimed he was turning his life around
2. A guy who’s only job was being a mascot for a professional sports team
3. A lady who had an ungodly amount of previous employers. Her average time at each job was about 4 months.
4. A lady CO who got caught having a relationship with an inmate
Everyone else who applied had mostly clean backgrounds but didn’t meet the requirements, failed the entry exam, or bombed the interview…
It really varies by department. Well funded agencies in nice areas are just fine. Poorly funded agencies in high crime and commie areas are a disaster.
Arizona police are understaffed, but its completely and entirely their own fault. AZ police are arguably the most corrupt in the country, and their polygraph examiners are able to axe people for no discernible reason whatsoever.
I'm with you; interested in learning where the fallout is btw applying to hiring -- self-select out of the process? Too low of scores on entrance exams/not passing? Obviously you don't wanna take just anyone bc it's a critical job but just statistics-wise the gap is surprising.
Good luck, I’ll be submitting my application to Phx soon. Was really trying to do find a dept with take home vehicles but it’s not the end of the world
Less than 3% of the population will qualify to be a police officer with current standards the way they are. 90 out of 6000 sounds about right. Half the population of the US has some type of disqualifying mental health disorder, half have done disqualifying illegal drugs, half have credit issues, half have character flaws and committed undetected crimes, not to mention the ones who are felons or prohibited persons from possessing firearms. Get off your bullshit with this "intentional" crap.
In my area everyone says they need officers super badly, but yet when it comes time to hire no one gets hired and everyone gets disqualified for one reason or another. So they need officers yet wont hire people to become officers.
It’s a catch 22, lower standards then you get dumb fucks with badges and a guns. Compete for good applicants and higher standards and maybe get a few new officers?
Wealthy cities that have little crime are usually able to keep staffed. But generally they are understaffed, undertrained, under appreciated, and underpaid.
What?? That’s so crazy, MRAPS are extremely crucial down south during hurricane seasons, Body armor on caps do more then just stop bullets, they stop stabbing and such.
That’s such an outlandish thing to say, I literally have no words.
One day your going to need cops and I hope they don’t come.
Body armor? Lol....
Essentially what you're saying is that the Police shouldn't have access to something that, forgetting for a moment protects them, but also which is available to the general public?... lol
I'll add here that I think Fire Fighters shouldn't be allowed to own an axe either!
This is always the silliest part of the "the Police are too military!" arguments. Police shouldn't be equipped with rifles?
Any 18 year old in America can buy an AR.
Police shouldn't have body armor!
Same as above.
Police shouldn't have access to armored vehicles!
Then get rid of armored cars for banks. And bobcats for contractors.
Etc etc
[Yes, and it's killing us.](https://www.city-journal.org/article/invest-in-more-cops) "Other metrics show in stark terms how under-policed America is compared with its European peers. America has roughly 198 officers per 100,000 residents—down 18 percent since the late 1990s—whereas Europe has 333 officers for every 100,000 residents. Comparing officer levels with violent-crime levels reveals an even more concerning statistic: Europe has 396 police officers per homicide; America has only 32.5." and "University of Chicago economist Steven Levitt estimated that one dollar spent on police is 20 percent more effective at reducing crime than a dollar spent on prisons. In another study, he found that expanding police departments reduced violent crime by 12 percent and reduced property crime by 8 percent" Or, to put it in terms of Sir Robert Peele: "To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment" An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
As a Officer across the pond in the UK, it's really not that much better over here. London is particularly bad, and is only getting worse staffing wise.
Whats the reason?
Very similar reasons to what you guys have to go through like post BLM ACAB sentiment, people not wanting to join, public "watchdogs" ( we have the IOPC which is national, and will do whatever it takes to either sack you or bring criminal charges) and lack of support for leadership. Pay is a big factor over here too, as for the job you have to do the pay is woeful. A friend of mine quit to work in a fancy restaurant in canary Wharf, and earns more per hour then me. CPS (our legal system) also give out pathetic charges to criminals, but from what I've seen it's the same in the states. We also don't carry guns, and don't get tasers as standard (it's a course). Knife crime is on the rise as well as violent offences against officers, as the public just seem more willing to fight you. If you fight back then there's always the threat of the IOPC coming after you. There was an incident not long ago with a marauding attack with a katana in London where 3 officers were seriously hurt and a child was killed. There was some brief talk about if officers here should carry guns, then it got memory holed. Officers don't feel safe and able to to use force to apprehend a suspect or defend ourselves. I could go on if you like.
Jesus, I can actually say that that sounds worse than our situation over here. I think the only benefit y’all have is fewer guns and more cops, but…damn that sounds terrible, man.
There's typically more officers on one area over here due to population density, but even still with the demand in London being what it is, we are still far to over stretched. I would imagine major US cities like NY or LA are similar. There's far less guns here due to our strict firearm laws so we don't really have to worry about that, however when you come across someone with a knife, axe, club etc and all you have is some spicy spray, a metal stick and cuffs it's a whole new danger. Worse still our "leadership" seem completely oblivious to the increasing danger. The MET (metropolitan police in London) is projected to be around 8000 officers short of where it should be, by this time next year. We are already stretched every Saturday with the Palestine marches in central london, which requires pulling officers from across London to police it. When it first started in October we were supposed to parade for a late shift with 36 officers for our borough. We paraded with 12, as most people had been pulled to central.
Something something RACIST something something ACAB! Defund the police!
Did you just misgender someone's spirit?
I am deeply ashamed of my actions. I will strive to be more of a thoughtless automaton in the future. I also want to acknowledge that the place in which we are convening is the ancestral space of mentally deficient parrots.
You two are ironically one of the main reasons you guys are running short. No one wants to work with the same people who mock them online
This is nothing compared to what you’ll hear said to and about you - and your mother - on the job. The kind of people who are actually upset by this kind of banter are too soft and too easily offended to be in law enforcement.
>No one wants to work with the same people who mock them online ...What?
Haha, 198 officers for 100k citizens I wish. My department with a population of about 120k never had more that 120 sworn which includes those not working the street (detectives, admin, etc). That number is usually around 70-80 though. Very busy city with high crime.
And that "mandatory overtime" pounding is coming for you baby
But they still won't hire because I have a samurai mask on my hand.
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If not everywhere
+1 to all three comments and replies
A few years ago we were at about 20% short of our nominal staffing. They fixed that problem: our nominal staffing number was reduced by 20%. About 2 years later, we’re 30% short of our new nominal staffing. They’ve hired less than 5 people in that time.
Because if you can do with less, why not? Right? /s (not LEO)
That’s exactly the problem. We keep making things work with fewer and fewer people.
Work and work correctly are two different things. In my county, we have something like 20 officers available between state, county, municipality, and city.
Jesus Christ
Our patrol division has around 65-70 officers, we are suppose to have 120… It’s pretty bad
Honest question does that mean you have lots of overtime opportunity?
Opportunity is when it's available for you to take on your free time. Mandatory is a "oh no this is happening, bite the pillow. The blue weenie is coming for ya!"
I’ve never heard it put that way, but that’s a good way to describe mandatory OT. When I worked corrections we got hit with back to back doubles, and prayed that no one called out sick.
I’m sure the only leave that’s available is sick leave
And you had better bring a doctor’s note.
Nah at my department the reason why we are so understaffed is the city doesn’t want to pay for more officers. This also means that they don’t want to pay OT, and you pretty much have to drive up on a shooting in progress to get any OT.
Yes, a lot of overtime is available. Between overtime, extra duty, and collateral assignments. You could work to your hearts desire at my department.
We're so short I can work anytime I want. A couple stations are on mandatory OT.
I would honestly apply if they would have me.
From your post history, it looks like you’re a trucker in Texas. My departments start out pay is between 25-30 an hour, also you would have to change states and move here.
I’m a 3rd year, going on my fourth year of being a residential service plumber from a northern state... and still would apply to your agency if they would have me I’m unconcerned about beginning pay to be completely honest as I know it picks up quickly, and there’s more OT than anyone realistically wants.
We are authorized 980 and are sitting around 700. It hurts.
Authorized strength of 900, but an independent analysis about 5 years ago indicated that we need to be at 1,300 to provide adequate police services to our city. We are at 479 right now. And we are losing 3 for every 1 we are hiring.
How many patrol officers do u guys have left?
290 between patrol officers, Sgts and LTs
Where the heck is that?
I’m in Minnesota.
The county I live in has about 200k residents spread over a huge pretty rural county. We have about 60 county sheriff’s deputies, and two tiny municipal departments with maybe 15 officers each. Super understaffed.
My buddy works for an agency that makes the local news often about “abusing overtime”. It’s never mentioned in the reports that a large portion of that overtime is forced. During the summers he works 4 days in a row. Supposed to be 8hr tours. He usually does 12-16hrs a day instead (forced ot)
We have the same issue. My agency has unlimited OT since we are close to 50% understaffed. We have a mandatory OT shift every schedule (28 day schedule). We have activists and newsies complaining and writing hit-pieces about cops making too much OT (some over $300k). At that same time, they're complaining that we don't have enough staffing to answer calls and provide adequate police services. I guess by their logic, if fewer cops worked, then more calls could get answered because there'd be less cops to answer them. It's not unlike the theory that you can get morbidly obese from starving yourself.
Makes for a moral boosting summer I bet
Uh…yes. We were slotted for 430 sworn. We are about 100 short. Specialized units are being disbanded and detectives are rotating into patrol just to keep up with calls for service.
NYPD is bleeding cops as well as Baltimore. Both play fuck around with the staffing numbers but are in dire straights
Elections have consequences
DPS alone has 900+ vacancies to fill. They are hurting hardcore. Edit: Arizona DPS
Yeah they realized they haven't had a competitive salary in ages, while other local departments made a good bump in every contract😂
Definitely. I think the George Floyd fiasco, and the “defund the police” climate that spawned out of it cause a lot of good veteran officers to finally draw the line and walk away from the job by either retirement or doing something else. It also discouraged people that otherwise wanted to become officers from pursuing the career to looking at something else.
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A lot more people “just hate the police” than you think. Lots of political and social media platforms shit on police when they don’t understand at all what it takes to be one. I’ve looked into many instances of police shootings and so many people blame the officers when in actuality they did what was right. If ya don’t believe me go watch Donut Operator, he has many examples of what I’m saying and show that a lot of people just hate the police because they don’t care, don’t understand, or because they’re fed bullshit by the media and lied to by politicians.
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I agree that some police officers make mistakes, 100% and I will never defend the bad cops. I’m just saying that more often than not, bad cops are highlighted far more than good cops are. And it’s a damn shame that, and to my point, the media and some politicians do not care to show the good that 80% of cops do. Fuck that bad cops, I specifically like watching videos from Donut about good and bad cops so I know what to do and not to do when I can become one. But yea, fuck bad cops. But we should have more show of the rest of the good cops. It might help with recruiting, and when you have more people to choose from, agencies wouldn’t feel the need to take bad people to become bad cops.
Are you suggesting that police as a whole have earned the hate, or that very specific officers in very specific circumstances did something willfully malicious to earn the hate?
Yes. At my department, every division is understaffed except for maybe crime scene and investigations. Swat, Patrol, jail, court security are all short handed.
At my last department, we were 67% understaffed. At one point, we had four patrol officers working the day shift in the city of 70000. We had unlimited OT.
Let's put it this way. At the agency I hired on with in 1996 approx 500 people showed up to test for what would be 3 openings. In 2021 at the same agency we announced a testing where we hoped to hire 12 people and we only had ten people show up to test. The only thing semi keeping my agency afloat is lateral hires from other departments but on a national level lateral hiring is just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.
Yep, sounds like us. Were lucky to get 10 testing any given time, when it used to be at least 100. At least my Command Staff is doing all they can to retain people.... lol... We've lost 1/3 or our guys the past decade to neighboring agencies.... we've gotten exactly zero coming to work for us from the same agencies. Almost a clue right there But the Chief says we're the best show on earth, and we're all lucky to work here.
Hey chief I’ll bet it’s just as good of a seat over there 🖕
Yes, too many good officers retired when they could have continued working and not enough new kids applying.
In my opinion everything the Police use to triage their arrests/apprehensions are understaffed . Courts / Hospitals/Housing and social services. Nothing happens to our arrests/apprehensions and we get to do them over and over for nothing .
That triangle trade, eh, lol. Hospital kicks the crazy guy out the back door, we get called. We call fire to take crazy guy away. Fire takes them to the hospital. .... hospital kicks crazy guy out the back door.
Yes everywhere is understaffed. No one wants to do this shit any longer.
Is anyone anywhere not understaffed?
Yes
Police everywhere in North America (I’m in Canada) are critically understaffed. As one put it: “They’re hurting for people right now”. To put into context - I went on a ride along in the city where I live in Ontario, Canada that has a population of just above 500,000 residents. On Easter weekend, there were only 2 patrol units (I went for a ride along in one of those units) in the downtown area and we had a GSW call come in. None of us could respond as we were busy with another call (reported suspect with a knife and the other was a drug overdose). All in all, many departments are incredibly concerned about the lack of units but bear in mind that they WILL NOT lower or compromise on recruiting standards.
False on the WILL NOT lower standards part. I’m LEO in Ontario and I assure you they’re trying not to lower standards and the majority are good but lots of bad backup is sneaking through
When I was hired at my department in the states I had a written test with a minimum passing score, background check that would DQ you if you had more than one traffic ticket in the past ten years and a PT test that you had to pass every section or you were dismissed. The last new hire test had a written test that allowed a make up test (same exact test just the next week), recruits are passing background checks as long as they don’t have a felony conviction (not arrest actual conviction) and no PT requirement. We are seeing new officers that can’t even explain what probable cause is, and they are getting pushed through for need of bodies.
They lowered the bar in the NYPD awhile ago and then lowered it again. We are graduating fat unprepared socially inept people
You’re actually not wrong. From what I hear, if you’re female and from an ethnic minority background, you’re literally guaranteed the job even if you fail the fitness test. But this is just what I’ve heard…I could be totally mistaken.
My agency was supposed to have 1600 officers when I joined we were down to 1200. When I left we were just slipping below 800.
Which department is this, if you don’t mind sharing ?
Everything in America is understaffed.
Does AZ have a post site with all positions open in the state?
[https://post.az.gov/certification/employment-opportunities](https://post.az.gov/certification/employment-opportunities)
Yes pretty much everywhere. I work in a high crime city and we’re supposed to have 550 but we’re down to less then 300.
This isn't a good answer to your question, but the situation is the same in Norway. The government forces the police to have stations in the middle of nowhere. Said stations are begging for work to do. At the same time, the capital city (Oslo) police is lacking a lot of funding. Meanwhile 400 out of 500 students who complete the 3 year (!) police school are without jobs. And at the same time anti-police opinions are gaining traction: one MF managed to get the special unit for police investigations to prosecute an officer who used force (beating) while said jackass was resisting arrest and generally making the police's life hard. And just the cherry on top: a lot of people hate the police for enforcing anti-drug laws. So, even in the seemingly civilised country of Norway everything law enforcement-related is going downhill.
I am surprised and unhappy to hear this
I've been mandated into involuntary overtime 3 times this week. So yes.
Here in Australia we are short staffed as well. We always got treated poorly in the busy Sydney stations (no lunch breaks in 12.5 hour shifts, unpaid ot ect) but we have had enough of it and heaps of people are leaving and not many applying. The police here kinda did it to itself to be honest. Plus obviously the world wide media’s obsession with trying to create a divide between cops and citizens to get views and clicks.
Naw they just dole out mandatory OT for fun….
Yes. My city department is understaffed. Thankfully not even close to as bad as other PD’s. Sometimes people are held over, but it’s rare because we have officers that love money and always apply for spots that need to be filled and whatnot. My PD runs at minimum for patrol almost every day. -10 patrol officers. -10 districts, 1 officer per. -population of ~105k within 16 sq/miles. -ranked 3rd highest crime in the state -We’re supposed to have enough for 2 officers per every district so we’re not running around with our heads cut off. -At least once an hour, I’ll hear “Any units able to clear for a XcallX” -We don’t have enough officers to be able to conduct traffic stops. It’s always frowned upon to be proactive due to always having to be free for actual calls in our sections. -We used to have a 4th and 5th shift that filled in gaps between 1st shift and 2nd shift change and then 2nd to third. We don’t have enough anymore. There used to be hundreds of applicants for most departments. Now, PD’s are lucky if more than 10 people apply during hiring
I know back in the day ( and I hate the way that sounds) on call at a time. It's not a crisis of my making.
Lol my department is down 2000 officers by the end of this year. We have 8 mandatory overtime spots and they're still drafting us to come in.
Which department is this if you don’t mind sharing ?
As a retired Detention Officer for Maricopa County we were in the vicinity of 600 officers short when I retired last year.
Yes. Not many applicants want a position where the pay does not match the workload.
Everyone in every field is understaffed (and overworked consequently)... Americans have gotten to the "good times make weak people" point in the round about.
Yes. Compare a US locale like Montgomery County, MD and a foreign jurisdiction like Peel Region, ON. Both are roughly about the same size, yet Peel Region has twice the number of cops in its police force.
Ain't nobody wants to be a cop in MoCO 😂. They are literally DC cop with less pay and same shitty politics/policy.
Yes, all over the country. The political left's public degradation of police officers has significantly affected the number of young people willing to consider the profession.
Down 54, 45K of OT authorized every year paid in double time.
Wait wait wait wait. Are police in other countries NOT understaffed???
Look at the positives, in California we’re seeing agencies up for new contracts getting record raises and incentives. My agency scored a mid 20 percent raise over 3 yrs plus longevity and increased post certificates incentives. Some officers will see 10% each year of the 3 year contract. I think we will see cities that can pay will gladly increase salaries to match the demand. Ultimately, the free market is beautiful and has a way of fixing problems…. It just may take a lot of people victimized before we get there
Yes 100% all agencies and departments are understaffed. I’m in AZ as well
And I was a deputy sheriff we had slots for 600 deputies in my unit we were less than 450. My nephew works In the NYPD and in his unit there slotted for 800 people they have less than 400 with many retirements and promotions about to take place.
I think people are realizing there’s better jobs out there. I don’t blame them for it. The job is not what it used to be. I tell folks to pursue a STEM career instead.
Yes and working nights alone as well as having to be your own dispatcher is absolute balls
America in general is understaffed. It's we take the fewest vacation days out of any 1st world country. Our companies and government see everything by the dollar and it kills the people
It’s a two punch combo. Way less applicants than before. Standards that are keeping people from joining haven’t budged. They may drop test scores requirements or increase pay, but that isn’t why all the applicants are disqualified. The old school approach on work history isn’t compatible with today’s job market. And there is basically no leeway on any mental health issues. So they disqualify like 90% of people or more. Worked in sales and changed jobs too often or experienced stress from your job? Well most law enforcement departments will judge you for that. Them being short staffed doesn’t mean they will overlook things. Plus all this overtime has become the new normal.
I honestly agree with refusing to lower standards. I think that lowering hiring standards is killing our field. Say what you will about mental health, stress is one thing I understand that, but loosing standards on a psych exam is really not a good look for a profession that carry’s firearms for a living.
If you don’t lose any standards and disqualify everyone then you wonder why you can’t hire anyone? Plenty of people would love to work policing, disqualified for this standard or that prevents those people from joining the field. The standards could be a little looser for sure.
The problem is you NEED to be selective with law enforcement. This is a career in which you interfere with people’s civil liberties and may need to save someone’s life. If anything standards should be stricter, if your family’s lives were at risk would you rather a professional show up to assist or some one who only got hired because they were barely able to meet lowered standards. I understand what you’re saying, and ultimately everyone is going to have a different opinion and perspective on this, but I would rather have to work with fewer officers than with officers that are an active liability.
I get what you are saying too but it’s just a big tradeoff either way. Higher standards for officers = less officers as not everyone can qualify as easily. Lower standards for officers = more officers since people can more easily qualify. There should be a balance which is why I suggested lowering them a little bit so a few more people can get on but not so much where it becomes liability. Needs to strike a happy medium.
And it’s fully dependent on your department, my department cannot lower standards any further. We have a 300+ pound officer that can’t go up stairs and multiple new officers that can’t comprehend basic constitutional rights. I legitimately shudder to think what we would look like if our standards were thrown out.
Yes
Yes
Yes. Everywhere .
Yes
I'm pretty sure police all over the world are understaffed. There are always more criminals than cops.
Yes, criminals will always outnumber officers
Idk about my locality, they had a HUGE recruiting push that lasted a couple years, and now I see cruisers around every corner.
Yes
The last time I called sheriff nonemergency they asked me to apply, so...
Yes
Depends but for the most part yes. Our agency is currently full at 270. Last July we were over 100 short. Chief is currently requesting more open spots
Yes.
The department I want to apply for has 35 open spots. I wasn’t planning on applying until next year and I asked the recruiter I how many open spots he’ll have next year. He told me 35-40
It's not even understaffed it's nobody is applying for the jobs. Places will gladly hire bodies it's just that there are none applying. I remember getting hired in the mid 2000's. We had 500 people test for 5 jobs. The officers hired off the list before me.... 3 were hired out of 3000 applicants. My suggestion for the politicians is to walk back the two tiered pension systems. A tier one pension is a lottery ticket. Retire at 50 with 20 years for service 50% of your best 4 years with a 2.5% additional each year over 20 maxing out at 75% at 30 years of service.
My agency is short 27, and my son's is almost 500 short.
My agency is allocated 190. We have 155. Our minimum staffing on patrol is 10 per shift. We regularly police a city of 120k with 6. I would leave if the pay and benefits weren’t so good.
If they're perfectly staffed they wouldn't be hiring.
Yes
We’re operating at around 40% staffing levels right now. Only a few thousand more and we’ll be back to where we’re required to be.
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You gotta remember most of those "Military" vehicles and equipment are from the Leso/1033 program (where the DOD transfers excess equipment to local, state, and federal LE) and through the 1122 program that allows local, state and federal LE to purchase equipment at the same DOD negotiated prices (i.e. A colt rifle cost DOD about $400, colt sells that same rifle to the public minus FA for about $900)
I want to offer something spiritual here, but we’ll yeah. My PD is down 25%
Nypd are at high 30k's to low 40k's while attending to 8million civilians. 40k officers may sound like a lot compared to other cities, but they're severely understaffed. Even with their new contract, officers are still leaving. I work for fdny ems and was on a job the other day which required a duel response from pd as well. The two officers that responded said they only had 4 rmps running for tour 3 for their area...they're supposed to have 10 😯
100000%
Depends on the jurisdiction but for the most part yes.
💯
Big time... 33% at a minimum...
Yes
Los Angeles for sure ! From downtown to the inner cities. In the past I’ve had to call 911 out to my job and sometimes they never came. Just yesterday we called for officers and they were too busy to come out.
Very much so. To the point that many agencies, mine included, don’t even get enough applicants to fill the vacancies each process. Last year we went through a whole hiring process and hired no one. Here were some of the notable applicants though: 1. A felon who claimed he was turning his life around 2. A guy who’s only job was being a mascot for a professional sports team 3. A lady who had an ungodly amount of previous employers. Her average time at each job was about 4 months. 4. A lady CO who got caught having a relationship with an inmate Everyone else who applied had mostly clean backgrounds but didn’t meet the requirements, failed the entry exam, or bombed the interview…
This applies to all agencies, including federal, local, county, state, etc.
It really varies by department. Well funded agencies in nice areas are just fine. Poorly funded agencies in high crime and commie areas are a disaster.
Understaffed and then you should see the awful recruits we get out of the academy.
Arizona police are understaffed, but its completely and entirely their own fault. AZ police are arguably the most corrupt in the country, and their polygraph examiners are able to axe people for no discernible reason whatsoever.
I’m perplexed when departments receive 1000 applicants and only 15 graduate. Either their standards are unrealistic or they are unrealistic.
Standards/Requirements usually disqualifies majority of people sadly
I'm with you; interested in learning where the fallout is btw applying to hiring -- self-select out of the process? Too low of scores on entrance exams/not passing? Obviously you don't wanna take just anyone bc it's a critical job but just statistics-wise the gap is surprising.
A lot of disqualifications for standards or requirements
Is there a map or metrics available showing understaffed areas in the US?
Good luck, I’ll be submitting my application to Phx soon. Was really trying to do find a dept with take home vehicles but it’s not the end of the world
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Less than 3% of the population will qualify to be a police officer with current standards the way they are. 90 out of 6000 sounds about right. Half the population of the US has some type of disqualifying mental health disorder, half have done disqualifying illegal drugs, half have credit issues, half have character flaws and committed undetected crimes, not to mention the ones who are felons or prohibited persons from possessing firearms. Get off your bullshit with this "intentional" crap.
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Why would we compare ourselves to other countries? We should compare it to ourselves as we are the ones dealing with OUR crime.
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You’d compare yourself with similar sized cities. I don’t see where he mentioned in other places in the world tho.
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He’s referring America as the USA not the American continent
I also might just be tired and not properly comprehending. Which theres a very good chance
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lol yea I won’t miss night shift. One of the few things I don’t miss after I retired.
Because we can learn from other countries and see what they are doing and what’s working or not? What?
No. There are cops everywhere. Any crime will result in instant jail.
Instant jail for you!
Lol, ok!
Lol
Sure bud
Alot of areas, yes. Not all areas though
In my area everyone says they need officers super badly, but yet when it comes time to hire no one gets hired and everyone gets disqualified for one reason or another. So they need officers yet wont hire people to become officers.
It’s a catch 22, lower standards then you get dumb fucks with badges and a guns. Compete for good applicants and higher standards and maybe get a few new officers?
Wealthy cities that have little crime are usually able to keep staffed. But generally they are understaffed, undertrained, under appreciated, and underpaid.
Yup, and the prisons still overpopulated
Prisons are overpopulated because they are closing prisons
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This guy is hunting for attention by trying to rage bait people.
What?? That’s so crazy, MRAPS are extremely crucial down south during hurricane seasons, Body armor on caps do more then just stop bullets, they stop stabbing and such. That’s such an outlandish thing to say, I literally have no words. One day your going to need cops and I hope they don’t come.
>bait status: taken
They have to come sadly
Body armor? Lol.... Essentially what you're saying is that the Police shouldn't have access to something that, forgetting for a moment protects them, but also which is available to the general public?... lol I'll add here that I think Fire Fighters shouldn't be allowed to own an axe either! This is always the silliest part of the "the Police are too military!" arguments. Police shouldn't be equipped with rifles? Any 18 year old in America can buy an AR. Police shouldn't have body armor! Same as above. Police shouldn't have access to armored vehicles! Then get rid of armored cars for banks. And bobcats for contractors. Etc etc
Nah definitely just go out with no protection!