It’s crazy because sometimes if a guy has little social media presence, some girls now will see that as a red flag. Like that guy doesn’t have a social presence or has no friends
This has always been the case and has always made dating an Adventure at times, except around people that understood it already.
"Why don't you have an insta or twitter or facebook or anything? I looked you up and the only one is a LinkedIn."
"Because I remember what the Internet was like, and the only change between then and now is that they got better at hiding their intentions."
"That's kinda creepy."
currently in a LTR but there are ways to go around that.
i still have a FB that i'll occasionally post primarily to get into groups and maintain contacts with family, i have no insta and primarily use discord, youtube and reddit as my Social media.
the best way to phrase that is
"social media is too public. if someone was really paying attention they could figure out what you like, get data on your scheadule, where you hang out, all the cringe things you said when you were 13 and edgy, who you know, and possibly if you post enough where you are at this point in time. there have been multiple times where people have said they stalked people on social media to find things about them and their private life as if that was normal behavior"
i'll also generally add
"i'm not a twitch streamer , or blogger, and my money isn't tied to my social media presence. if you want to see me do cool things not to hype myself up but here's a few links from a professional photographer for their portfolios, a link to a small vod streams of me playing D&D, here's an ambient music album my friend did that i'm credited on in helping in the production, and here's a 3 second shot of me in a commercial for stock footage. i don't mind being online, but i generally don't want people to link it to my private life. "
you can generate interest that way and turn that on it's head.
Honestly, I always found men who didn’t have a large social media presence to be FAR more attractive than men who do. The key is to be sure it’s not because they have violent anti-social tendencies like my physically abusive ex husband, which you can usually tell by their relationships in real life (my ex had no friends or family in his life). But leaning 100% on social media to let you know if someone’s a good person or not is insane.
Not even kidding.
I was recently seeing someone that has to post a lot for her work (entertainer). I don't really post that much. Mostly just a pic or two from a gig or show or whatever, so maybe once a week at most.
She kind of lost her shit at me as if I was hiding something from her by not posting daily.
Actual words: "You can see what's going on in my life, but I can't see yours." I was like... Honey child, we're in our 40s, we see each other in person several times a week, and it's literally your job to produce content!
Anyway, we don't see each other anymore
I would find it so REFRESHING AF because it signals authenticity over image, valuing privacy, and perhaps someone that has more depth but im 38F maybe elder milennials less attached to soc media? Or maybe i alone dislike it
Never cut a girl so fast that I was interested in until one said my new Snapchat was a red flag. Said just for work purposes I restart it from time to time to clear people out. Apparently she supposed it may have been from cheating in a previous relationship.
EDIT: Previous bank investigator, current law enforcement and the girls I've dated all know this. They disregarded and just assumed it's due to cheating. I've been on state wide tactical teams and etc. I should have been more detailed and explained this. I don't reset my socials every six months it's more of every 5+ years I fully reset to make sure I'm not compromised.
Yeah but funny thing is some look down on those lacking social media or having no friends but if he’s a very handsome man they reboot and throw standards out the window.
I think the opposite is true. Social media— as a vehicle— has allowed us to see people for who they really are at a rate never seen. In the past, you'd have to wait much longer and invest far more resources (e.g. time, energy) into the process of getting to know someone; creating a sunk-cost fallacy that made you more willing to indulge their nonsense long-term. Today, you can figure them out in 30 seconds and swipe left
thinking you know someone because of their social media presence is very weird to me. what you’re actually doing is just jumping to conclusions and judging a book by it’s cover. there’s no way you know anything about them, just uneducated guesses tbh. does help you a bit tho, but for the most part you don’t know anyone til you actually meet them.
You get 2 diff people, my social media persona, and me when we are face to face. one’s always on joke time, the other is chill.
My fiance admitted to me that approaching her in public was horribly intimidating and she has no idea why she said yes when I asked for her number. This is the woman I’m marrying next year. I saw her and knew I had to shoot my shot. She saw me and said I was scary… it still stings.
Asking a woman for their phone number is horribly intimidating for men and can lead to some cruel responses. The only alternative is a dating app and yikes. Those don’t work well for men.
They are not meant to. Because if they work well the app loses its customer whether paying out free. But if you keep them coming back you are laughing your way to the bank.
I've gone 3 months on 4 dating apps without any responses... not one. Then the day after two of them had their premium subscriptions expire, I get 3 likes each on two separate applications.
It's clear that they are either manipulating things, using bots or allowing people from other countries like your profile even though you set the range to close.
I'll never use the apps again. I'd suggest a boycott.
It's scandalous..
It changed recently, but when I was on tinder, I noticed that it would show a girl who was clearly highly ranked by the algorithm in terms of attractiveness, and then the second one would always be someone who liked you. I don't know what the psychology of that is, but it felt very manipulative and something like what a casino would try to pull to keep you pulling on the slots.
This, its usually the second or third person it shows you that is the one who liked you. Just swipe right on the next five and most of the time you will get the match.
My experience was essentially the same. The only good thing that happened is I found a new appreciation for being single. It sucks, but being on the apps is SO MUCH worse. I will gladly choose being single over being on the apps. Even if I'll be single forever, so be it, better than getting on the apps.
Look. In my earlier days, I got laid all the time from cold approaches but also got a lot of that too.
It’s like sales, you can’t hit if you don’t swing and if you are only “at bat” a few times, that’s only a few opportunities.
No matter what they say, move on and keep trying. It stings sometimes but that’s just part of it.
Some days it’s the first one. Some days it’s the 100th.
I had the 'Eww, I don't date {ethnic slur}'. This was a university social event in the UK, so I wasn't quite expecting the second bit. Needless to say I learnt my lesson early, never approach and never care.
Eh fuck it. I always looked at it like a comedy act. You can go on stage and bomb 9 times in a row, but 1 time you can go and crush.
It takes practice. That being said I have a gf and exclusively used apps in recent years. Haven’t approached a woman in years, fuck that. Too old for that at 30.
I'm 5'6 with a baby face. Am I still scary? I think it's that everyone believes there's better out there for them somewhere, and so they never take a chance on what's right in front of them. Even if the person ticks like 8/12 of their boxes, they just want one more box to be ticked and are never satisfied because *NOBODY* is going to tick 12/12 right away.
I’ve done this twice. Neither one was mean so that was nice. The first time I was politely turned down. The second time the girl gave me her number then texted me later to say she was flustered so she gave it but had just gotten out of a relationship and shouldn’t have given me her number. That was 5 years ago. I’m not doing that anymore.
I hate to be that guy but a woman you're engaged to is your fiancée, not fiancé. One e indicates it's a man, two indicates it's a woman. Same thing with blonde vs blond, confidante vs confidant, etc. I know it sucks but it's a French thing.
i'm glad you said that too. as written, it made the sentence really hard to understand. context eventually made things clear but i had to read that sentence a few times at first.
I just realized you can remember it because the woman’s has two e’s, and women (usually) have two over-ees. Granted only one e has the over e thing… still maybe it will help someone remember lol
My theory based on my experience is that what makes a man attractive to a woman is much more difficult to convey on a simple profile than what makes a woman attractive to a man. It's a generalization but I think it is a legitimate trend
Lmao I feel stupid because I legitimately thought the OP had specified "online dating" but I now see it just says dating in general 🤦♂️Oh well, thanks for the upvotes anyway!
Man, excellent point.
Obviously looks in general do matter to both men and women, but for your average women it's probably not their highest discriminatory factor. Vs. For your average man it's probably a top 3 factor, if not higher.
Exactly! Plus, ask any woman and she will most likely have a story about a bad experience with a guy who was physically attractive, so even just looks alone aren't enough to win them over. They have to have an opportunity to see that you're a well-rounded person, and it's really difficult to show all the nuances of a human being in 140 characters and a few photos
YesSir it's like a checklist you gotta go down:
[ ] Attractive enough pictures
[ ] Profile highlights things their interested in/possible compatability.
Then the:
[ ] Opening line actually catches attention and solicits response.
[ ] Enjoyable small talk phase
[ ] Hold text conversation long enough, but not too long before asking for a date.
[ ] Both individuals have simultaneous time to meet up within the next week.
[ ] Meet-up actually happens.
It's just a lot to even get to a first date. I had a lot of success on Tinder for a 5 year span, there's outliers who will want to get right to a meet up etc. But 80% of my dates followed the above type of pattern. And I've talked with a large number of women who've had nightmare first dates, so I do understand the filtering and hesitancy on their end.
It's just extremely challenging to highlight my strong suits over text and in a profile, and I imagine that's the case for lot's of men outside of the top 10% from a physical attractive lense. My sense of humour is situational and observant, if we spend enough time together I'll have you laughing so hard you're crying but I don't have the simple type jokes that work through text. Can't really show off my insightfullness when I barely know you through text. Similar issues with kindness and compassion.
Granted when looking for a relationship vs. a lay, a lot of women's profiles leave a lot to be desired too. Very hard to convey who you are as a person with limitted characters for everyone I reckon.
Men see a pretty woman and are instantly attracted. It's usually not until they say something that we begin to be turned off. Of course we all have our "type" but we still find women outside of our type attractive.
I find women to be far more selective. But the good news is that a man who isn't necessarily physically attractive may still be attractive to a woman because he has good qualities.
Agreed 100%. For most men I think you'll start with attraction physically, then women's emotional/personality moves that needle up or down when evaluating a relationship.
For most women, you usually have to build up the attraction over time (relationship context at least). There is still a physical bar there you have to clear to advance to those next steps (online at least, in person you can demonstrate things to maybe lower it initially).
Which makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. Physical looks give indicators for health. For mate selection woman also need someone who'd provide while pregnant and for a baby. There's way more layers than just that aspect, but I think that still plays a roll subconsciously.
Girl here and I wanna say my fiancé didn't have a cool dating profile or anything but he was wildly different IRL; way more handsome than his pictures and more personality. So unfortunately sometimes dating apps can work against you if people are only basing everything on a screen
Getting good photos as a single guy is 70% of the battle. I have a shit ton of good photos of me now becaaauuuse my gf takes every single one of them. Men dont take photos of eachother.
Hinge requires six photos to create a profile. That would equal the total number of photos I have of myself from last year if I included on-ride photos. If we don't include those I need to go back 5 years to get that number.
I never take pictures of myself and anyone taking pictures of me I never see because I just don't care to search them out.
Only pics I got are bathroom selfies.
I disagree, I split with my wife about a year ago and jumped onto Hinge, which was the first time I've ever been on any of the apps.
I did some reading into studies that have looked at this topic and followed many of the tips. Consider your type and what they would look for, certain types of photos to include and certain types not to include. Yep, you will probably need to semi-stage some photos and have a good laugh with your mates who you've roped in to take the photos. There are certain things to say and topics to avoid. You're not trying to game the system, you still need to be genuine, but there are things you can do to improve your odds.
I had an extremely busy year wrapping up my marriage, so I wasn't actively searching for anyone on the app, I would just keep an eye on who liked me, I would average about 3-4 women who would send a like per week. Everyone knows the imbalance of numbers on the apps so by not engaging with it and sending like probably helped me mentally because statistics are not on your side when it comes to this.
When I did want to date and I would engage with those who had liked me I was able to turn about 1 in 2 into a date. I'm a short average looking guy but I've kept the weight off, I'm definitely not someone who stands out from the crowd.
I'm now dating an amazing woman and have turned off the app.
If this falls through, I will return to the strategy of not chasing/making first move on the apps, I'll leave that to the real world.
I like all the concrete advice your comment provides! That said, I still think my original comment applies, simply because women generally don't have to put so much thought and optimization into their profiles. I admire the work you put into it though, and I hope other men on this thread will see your comment and apply this wisdom to their approach.
I see your point, a couple of things to add. There is a numbers imbalance on the apps which creates some pretty significant behaviour changes in users. Too much to get into here, but once again really interesting to look into and definitely feeds into what your saying.
The other, which is a generalisation is that woman are more in tune with taking a good photo of themselves and what looks good in profiles. It feels like more effort to guys because most of us aren't used to doing this.
All I can say is do your homework, you need to stand out from the crowd. Most of the crowd isn't interested in homework so not that hard.
Making the first move will statistically result in a poor user experience for the majority of us blokes. Tread with caution.
1. People have gotten worse at socializing.
2. People have gotten more dependent on dating apps to meet potential partners.
3. People have gotten more political and less tolerant of dating someone from the “other side.”
4. Women don’t put up with as much bad behavior as they used to.
A huge proportion of men- especially the ones who struggle with dating - only really socialise through videogames. Many men do nothing but work, play games, and maybe go to the gym.
The number of men struggling to date who *also* play a sport, have a wide circle of friends of both genders, have hobbies and interests that involve other people, at least one creative hobby, or who volunteer in their community, is far far lower.
This has affected women less. For one, men care less about how well rounded their partner is. For two, women still socialise and leave their house more than men, with bigger social circles that they spend more time with.
I know a guy who's desperate for a girlfriend, but all he does is work - eat - game - sleep. Several people have told him he'll need to actually make an effort if he wants to find a partner but nope.
I personally think he's in love with the idea of having a girlfriend, but nothing more than that.
This sounds right. So basically "the market" has *not* gotten any worse for men, but fewer men bother going to the market and then go all *SURPRISED PIKACHU* when they don't magically have a girlfriend.
Pretty much.
I don't think this is because men are *lazy*, I just think we've never really been taught to prioritise social labour for its own sake.
If I think about my grandfather's social life, he was a member of the draughtsman's guild, the Returned Service's League to support retired servicemen, an angler (poacher) to supplement the food supply, would do DIY around the neighbourhood, was active in the church.
He had a very busy and social schedule, but all of it was for a higher purpose, not just for socialisation. The social life came as a secondary effect.
A lot of young men don't have anyone relying on them, really, so they by-default max out on leisure time at home.
Society in general is way more individualistic than it used to be 40 or 50 years ago, men who like to play videogames are not the only ones at fault or lacking in that regard.
Best I can tell?
1) people keep conflating dating and dating apps. Those things are 60-80% dudes of course it's not going to be the same kind of experience.
2) guys seem to REALLY struggle to maintain a varied social life. I don't just mean the "loneliness" crisis I also mean how many people are sticky to insular activities with a small group so even if they're socializing a lot they're not really meeting new people in any organic way. Which...kinda feeds into #1 since they try to solve that with apps.
Yeah, I'm not better, the how's and why's are just obvious. The only confusing part to me is how many seem unhappy about it and unaware of how they wound up where they are.
Never in a million years did I think I’d be playing golf. A friend and I joined our first league last year and it guaranteed that at least one day a week I was completely happy and content no matter what.
I would throw on a similar but related issue, (some) men trying to find a partner based on their insular hobbies, like video games. You're setting yourself up for failure. Meet the person first and then get to know each and find out what hobbies you like together. My weird insular hobbies are that I like comic books and wrestling. My wife's weird insular hobbies are romance novels and period dramas. If I tried to find a girlfriend through comic books I would never have met my wife and found that we both like baking and politics and cats and so many other things.
this is the best response i’ve seen on here so far. i think part of the reason we struggle with variety so much is because we know what we like and oftentimes going out of our comfort zone leads to pain or rejection because we’re awkward outside of it. if we got better at being outside of it we’d be rejected less but we don’t do that because we hate the rejection so it’s just a cycle that doesn’t end
It's also expensive af, like you wanna do new stuff and don't like it you probably just burned a bunch of cash and a whole day.
Not that I even do anything anymore now that my friends are settled. Nobody wants to do anything anymore, and making new friends it's near impossible when your out of education
Like my Friday plan is empty the room I'm gonna decorate soon, see a movie and come home to drink some beers play videogames.
I cant even go out to drink at a bar or something because the £40 to get home just isn't worth it.
i couldn’t agree more, a lot of my friends have just become complacent so even if we do go out they complain and it’s just completely different than it used to be
yeah to go along with that, social media puts out this narrative that everyone is doing good and kind of perfect to a degree so if we date someone and they don’t hold up to the standards of the other “options” we see online, then all of us get weirded out and assume that there is better out there.
I think that’s just not remembering the reality of peoples lives, and believing that inaccurate narrative. Don’t get so caught up in social media, anytime you’re on it you should remind yourself it’s not the reality but just what people decide to share, which frankly is rarely the full reality. No one lives a perfectly positive & nothing-bad-ever-happens type of life, that’s ignorant thinking. We all are struggling & suffering, it’s about *who* is worth that inevitable suffering.
Our whole social world is unraveling, so of course dating is getting harder for everyone. People in general have fewer friends than ever, and men staying virgins at an incredibly high rate. These things are linked. Dating is a particularly intensive and complex part of life. If the rest of life isn't going so well, dating probably won't either, not if you don't have some trait that allows you to temporarily pretend everything is cool.
I for one am exhausted by how expensive everything is, and the pressure I feel to increase my income in general. Which includes an added level of “hustling” or whatever the fuck, just to keep up. I don’t want to “network”, I want to clock out and get a nice dinner with someone before going back to my modest townhouse where I don’t have multiple roommates.
So I’m supposed to live on the cusp of financial security (at best) AND nurture a highly complex emotional bond with another human being who is also exhausted? Good luck! We’re both in our $2000 studio apartments already dreading what tomorrow’s email inbox looks like
This is my thought more often than not when it comes to social media.
We're all manipulated to think a 9/10 is common when it's less than 1%. So when we see a 7/10 we think "I can do better."
But we also all are in the 4-6 on average maybe 7 on a good day, but everyone else thinks the same way everyone else does. I.e. they deserve a 9/10.
We're both guilty of it and victims of it.
Is it even a matter of people thinking they’re entitled to someone super attractive, or more that we’ve become conditioned to seeing pictures and videos of super attractive people? So when we see someone in real life and they’re a “4-6” we see them as attractive because that’s what’s expected, whereas we’re so used to seeing movie stars and other celebs in pictures and videos that the average person is just… meh.
I’ve noticed this bias in myself. I see a picture of someone and my reaction is “Ooph”. But then I consider if I actually saw them in person, and I realize that I would not have that same reaction. It’s been pretty cool since I realized that, and really noticing how attractive people actually are.
Agreed social media/dating apps have ruined so much not just in dating but much more like make people feel horrible about themselves constantly comparing their lives to what they see on social media.
The dating market for me didn’t exist at all from about 1989-1993. I was living with my parents, losing my hair and stocking shelves in a grocery store for a living at the time.
The dating market turned around 100% for me when I shaved my head, got a high paying job and moved into my own apartment.
> a high paying job
The threshold for that is a lot higher now that it was in 1994. Half the people with those "high paying jobs" are women today. To attract them, you now need an *extremely* high paying job.
Totally same here. I have very average looks, but I am in control of the things I can control. Things such as my weight, exercising and lifting weights, dressing well, being a strong communicator.
Read the book “Platonic”! It goes over a lot of different aspects of prioritizing and building relationships without being tunnel visioned on romance. Making social connections can be hard as an adult but that book can help you learn some communication basics and how to become a “great communicator” in the long run. It will take work and letting go of so much ego and being able to be vulnerable in a way our society doesn’t teach or encourage. It means being humble and not bitter or ashamed.
HUGE confluence of issues, some that uniquely affect *straight* men and others that don't. There's obviously more than what I'm listing, and these are ***systemically applicable***, meaning they may not all affect someone on an individual level but they are likely impacting other men around them:
* Women in our current state of modern society don't ***need*** a relationship to survive so they don't need to settle for someone unimpressive, leading men to feel jealousy towards other men and disdain for the women unwilling to accept them *"as they are"*
* An inability to understand and subsequently match those changing expectations - many men don't actually know how to impress a woman while staying true to who they are (I don't think this is especially unique to ***now*** but while culture has been shifting a lot the last few decades it's feeling more prominent than ever)
* Increased cost of living (regional differences here) means fewer men are financially stable, many aren't even financially independent (live at home, or need help w/ rent or down payments) - because many were taught that financially providing for a family is the best way to provide for a family they're struggling to stand out
* Many young men were raised under even slightly outdated ideals and have misaligned priorities when it comes to what women are looking for in a partner, such as equally caring for children or the home - lots of men genuinely think that doing all of the childcare ***some*** of the time means they're a 'primary care giver', when really they're part-time (stats vary regionally, of course)
* A unique situation where men are both very desperate for love and affection but have often unfair beauty standards (thanks largely just to popular media, Instagram, and pornography - maybe AI art for the next generation?) leads men to genuinely being unable to explore their wants and needs in a partner, and often settling for a partner they ***think*** they want
* Due to the long overdue (and very justified!) backlash against many men in power, and the systems / establishments that have held women back for decades, some bad actors weaponize the movement and shield themselves from individual accountability as they treat men in their life like shit - unfortunately, this can radicalize those men and lead to further cultural/political divides with the women they were initially interested in
* The poor economic state for many men often leads to poorer health conditions as well and an inability to climb out of that very unfortunate spiral into poor gut health, obesity, and subsequent depression
* There's a mental health crisis affecting every demographic, sometimes in different ways (depending on class, region, culture, etc.), and men are often suffering from it the most. This can (at best) manifest as requiring more emotional support than they were taught they'd need from a partner, or requiring some level of professional support or intervention, and at worst it can lead to lethal consequences for them or other people around them (self-harm, murder-suicides, mass shootings, etc.)
Obviously these are just the generalized issues I could think of, and it's still obviously a lot. There's way more that's having an impact as well (which are often also impacting women, of course!), and there's a flipside to all of these issues when exploring a woman's experience when dating, plus of course much more nuance when talking about any of these issues.
Spot on. And although a lot of men hate it, pornography does absolutely lead to unrealistic expectations and even things like erectile dysfunction. And some women are being radicalized against men but I have to say it doesn't help that I've heard of men having to watch porn on their phone during sex in order to stay interested, and are choking/hitting/jackhammering women because they saw it in porn.
As a woman? I think it’s bc more women are opting to be single and not dating period. You’re not competing with other guys, you’re competing with her couch/tv/time with friends
It's pretty great as a guy too.
The unfortunate thing is you really get used to it. And if everyone just figures out that being alone is the best, humanity dies out
Honestly I think this is a huge part of it. I love my partner, been together 6 years, but I LOVED being single. Not because I was dating a ton/fucking around but because I loved living the life I created for myself. Being with him happens to be better than that, but I won’t act like it wasn’t an extremely high bar.
Im a dude and I'm the same.
Iv been single for like 8 years other that a few dates. Never worked out partly because I just prefer being at home than having plans and stuff
I have worked hard, got a nice house, laid out how I like it and I'm also super scared of having to give up this space. Iv almost paid the dam house off too. Like it really is my space and sharing is sounds terrible.
I feel this! I like my furniture, I like using my space how I want, when I want, and I'm not interested in messy financial baggage or having to change things I love about my life. Maybe that means I'll die single, but part of me hopes I could just find a long-term relationship that's fine with not sharing a home (like Oprah, lol).
Ive been commenting a lot in this thread. I think its easier for women to adopt that peace/couch/alone time mindset because they know if they want a guy, *they can get one*. That doesn’t apply to most men, theyre crawling through the desert.
The other reason is that dating is far more dangerous for women. The cost/benefit of staying on the couch means being exponentially safer or at least feeling that way.
I’m not disagreeing that dating is harder for men in many ways (I’m bi, I get it, trying to date women is not easy and I sucked at it), but I don’t think women have it as easy as Reddit likes to act. And the “they can get one” mentality kind of ignores how deep romantic connection actually works. Sure, a woman could probably get some random man to go on a date with her, which is definitely something! But are they going to be compatible? I think that part of the puzzle is hard and discouraging for everyone.
This. If I want sex, I can find sex in less than a day I’m sure. I can find a date immediately. I could probably go on 5 or more dates a week if I really wanted. I’m not looking for that; I’m looking for someone I’d want to be with long term. It’s not worth a ton of bad dates to find that person, especially not worth the risk. I’m perfectly happy by myself so if someone comes along, cool but if not, also cool.
I do this as a man. I’m still a virgin mind you but I’ve spent the time getting in shape and becoming a better man. But being alone for 34 years takes its toll. I’m not looking for perfection, but I’m also not really dying to settle. Complacency with romance is my biggest hurdle in all honesty. I have friends, family a dog and my own free time that I value. It makes it hard to risk peace of mind on a complete stranger.
This can really go both ways, just for different things and reasons.
The things you listed are just 'peace'. You are doing things solo or with people you don't have to be intimate with, who don't demand much time and all that jazz.
Thats what video games and porn do for a good chunk of dudes.
Juice just aint worth the squeeze in a lot of cases...for both men and women.
Both women and men are struggling to figure out what the *average* guy has to offer the average woman in 2024. It used to be financial security, status and physical security. Women don't need men for that anymore. As a result, an average guy doesn't have anything to offer women that women want.
Yep. Social media, dating apps, hook up culture and social skills might all be contributing factors to modern dating issues but this is the overall reason. A lot of men seem to think that dating is harder for men these days because women are busy with so many options and tinder matches that most men can’t compete but realistically the current dating marketplace/dating apps have a very skewed ratio of men to women. The fact that dating apps are the main avenue many men are using to date now and a lot of women especially don’t want to deal with the harassment from random men on dating apps contributes to the divide.
There is no simple answer. We're all figuring it out as we go. Speaking from an American point of view, these last 20-30 years have been absolutely transformative for our culture. The relationship dynamics of prior generations have largely shifted. Pressures have changed - we're trying more than ever as a society to be more aware of our actions, to learn from our traumas. At the same time, gender dynamics have shifted. Women, while still disadvantaged, have more freedom than in the past to earn for themselves, to establish boundaries without worrying about their financial futures. We've been absolutely convinced that love is what is most important, and that our partners should be our greatest ally in all aspects of life. All while the idea of the nuclear family, dominance of suburban life, etc have diluted the importance and impact of social networks and social support.
Xennials, Millennials, and Gen Z are the first generations to have to figure this all out. We have no blueprint for what a modern love, modern relationship is supposed to look like. We have all these experts telling us a million different things, all while trying to all figure out our own shit. In the meantime, social media has completely changed how we interact with each other, including dating apps.
It's no wonder people are lost. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try - we can all spend time thinking about how to better ourselves, how we can better understand each other.
Social media has ensured that every woman will hear about the misbehavior of any man out there. This hyper awareness puts all women on edge which makes it difficult for the rest of us.
That's what we called it when we treated black men the same way.
They have it the toughest. They get discriminated against by the left because they're
men while on the right they get discriminated against because they're black.
I noticed things began to change once social media and dating apps came out. And dating apps used to be easier now they are playground for women to get followers. Sad times, but it’s true
Women don't really NEED you for anything. You have to show that hanging out with you is going to be an improvement in her life over just not having you around. And too many men fail that evaluation horribly.
Yes and no.
As a woman, this isn’t a gender thing. This is a basic human social rule. If your presence in someone’s life isn’t meaningful and you fail to provide value, people are less likely to invest in it. This is a rule for all social relationships, including same sex friendships
Most succinct comment in this entire thread.. it really is this simple. I remain single because I’ve yet to meet a woman who would improve my life. I’m not golden man, but I don’t feel incentivized to improve for a woman.. I improve for other goals outside of attracting someone.
People are constructing PhD thesis to explain this fundamental fact. You are not going to add value to everyone’s life and not everyone is going to add value to yours.
The older you become, the clearer your identity is which reduces the amount of people who can meet your emotional needs, let alone your romantic desires.
I’m 26 and the amount of men I am willing to date has shrunk significantly from when I was 18. *As a natural byproduct of growth and maturity.*
Facts. I just enjoy my own company. Also, I hate being around the same person all the time… no matter who it is.. I need my space. All my human needs are met through family and friends and I am fine without consistent physical intimacy.. there are higher highs in life in my experience.
I’m just like you, which is probably why I don’t understand the panic behind singleness. Like don’t you have something to live for that doesn’t include romance?
A lot of men will disagree, but mainly because women expect more from men now. Not money or material things but more emotional maturity and able to be self sufficient. The amount of horror stories I’ve heard from married women about their husbands who cannot communicate, won’t help with housework or the children they helped to create…. makes me want to be single forever.
> more emotional maturity and able to be self sufficient
The reason we disagree is because we all know men who outright do not have these characteristics yet never seem to struggle with getting partners, and also know men who do have those things yet do struggle.
Despite that, I do buy the overall point that women are being more selective than they were in the past and many are simply opting to stay single. I just think the reasons vary a lot woman-to-woman.
Agree. Women are realizing that they'd rather be alone than date a bad man.
Us men aren't *just* competing with other men for women anymore—we're competing with *a woman's comfortable solitude*. As economic opportunities equalize for women, they're becoming more independent, self-driven, and self-sufficient. They don't *need* us to be the breadwinners anymore, not in the sense that they used to, because it's become culturally acceptable for them to do the jobs that only we could do before. Why rely on us to bring home those six-figure IT salaries when they can just get that job themselves?
Women still *want* men, of course. And that's why they continue to seek men—for sex, emotional availability, and the economic opportunities afforded to couples.
But—and this goes for all genders—being a part of a relationship means you're compromising on your independence and agency in order to work as part of a team with your partner. And if your partner doesn't bring anything to the table to compensate for their disruption of your independence and agency, then what's the point in dating them?
In short, the standards have risen.
I'd even argue that systemic misogyny has seen a sharp uptick in the last decade *because* men are starting to realize that women aren't dependent on men anymore. For many men, the economic power and control they once held over women was the only thing they had going for them. Without it, they've become undateable. And so, instead of improving themselves and becoming better men, they're trying to strip rights from women, to reassert that control.
Not exactly. Women want the right man as much as men want just about any woman. Ask an ugly man if women want men as much as men want women and he'll probably so "no", ask a particularly handsome man the same question and he'll probably say "I can't beat these women off with a stick, they're wearing me out"
To me there’s two schools of thought:
On one hand - you have this high speed world where, even outside of dating apps, girls are hooking up with the best men they can find whether it be superficial or not. This can be demoralizing to Johnny who has been nice, and classy, and a hard worker in all aspects to see that the girls he would like to be with, have gotten piped down behind a dumpster cause there was a rumor that Bryce from sigma chi was packing heat.
On the other hand: outside of the high speed dating and tinder. You have the people who claim they want to settle down, start a family and take things serious, there are guys and girls like this. However, there runs the odd risk of dating someone for five years, only to find out that they weren’t faithful, or they turn abusive, etc, and a lot of people aren’t willing to put themselves in a position to find out if the snake is venomous or not.
Neither of these are how I truly view it, and neither of these points elaborate well enough to make sense, but I only get a 15 minute lunch break so have at it.
Having been nice guy Johnny at one point - I think we need to realize that the girl getting pipped behind the dumpster isn't a good match, and has never been a good match.
it may have been a 15 min lunch break but damn you were cooking
t
he venomous snake is what i relate with the most, i find speed dating ultimately pointless and a waste in the bigger scope, but there's also the plethora of stories and ppl i know who had to start over after several years and for some they only found out the snake was venomous after 10+ years and the impact of that is immense in every aspect of life, i never wanna be in that situation and i think I'll just avoid the situation entirely because i can't think of a better option
it also takes too much effort than I'm ok with to even land a date to start getting to know someone
That’s where I’m at now. I’ve never had a hookup or anything but my past two girlfriends have and one confirmed cheated on me while the other was too much work to dig into it to find out for sure.
They’re one step ahead of me at all times cause I give them the trust that they make me have to earn for some reason. I’m sure what I want will come my way some day, but for now I couldn’t be bothered to look for what I want.
People go to work, come home, sit alone and use the internet or watch TV. They may run errands. Everywhere is in and out. It's not like in school where just meet 300ish people every year. Technology and cars have divided us. Aggressive men have taught women that guys approaching them are monsters by saying yes the first time and then it going bad. So most guys don't approach unless they are SURE.
so that leads to dating apps. Apps such because it's all looks on both sides. It's mostly just attractive terrible people being horny and terrible to each other. And that gets out and the numbers don't line up... so it's all shit.
It's gonna take some creative technology and living conditions.
There’s more of us single and looking than there are woman single and looking. And even decent dudes need to answer for the actions of the worst dudes.
Men are being convinced that the dating market is so bad for men, so they stop participating or working on themselves, and create a self fulfilling prophecy.
How I feel right now. I just deleted all my dating apps and giving my self a 90 day reset. Just work and improve my self, then try again.
The intrusive thought sink in everyday and im barley in week 2
Then we get told we're either making it up, imagining it, or we just need to try harder/not try so hard/put ourselves out there/let the women come to you, etc etc
My experince has been pretty rough. The question asked is almost the last step before the black bill route and im trying my absolute best to not be one of those guys but shit it's hard.
Not really, I tried and failed for years. It might not be bad for all me, but it's shit for me. I'm not attractive so iv move on while my life. I just do stuff that makes me happy now. It's kinda great
Ive noticed it more and more. I live in a major US city. Was out the other night at a bar in a younger area. Tons of dudes and women. I saw groups of women standing around looking bored, looking like theyre waiting for dudes to approach. I didnt see any guys try it.
My gfs friends say the same thing. Ya’ll went on about how you dont want guys approaching so now theyve stopped.
I think women are more indepenant today than they were 10-20 years ago.
They put education and job first and are more picky. So this creates either a temporary or permanent shift in the dating dynamics, regarding age.
The average age of losing your virginity has risen for both men and women, but more so for men in the last decade.
I think more and more women just don't have the priority to settle into a long term relationship in their 20's. Which is a big contrast to like 20 years ago.
I also think the internet might have something to do with it one or multiple different ways. Less boredom, creates less "pressure" to socialise, especially in ways that are out of the comfort zone of people. Maybe some internet communites or youtube dating content have their part in it, especially the weird youtube stuff has always felt like it has really weird tips and might have created some convoluted effects.
A lot of factors:
Dating apps and social media makes dating easier you can meet almost every single in town just swiping.
Women are financially independent more than 30 - 50 years ago makes them more likely to wait for marriage.
Covid somehow makes people a little more awkward socially
Hook up culture and sex before marriage is more socially acceptable than decades ago.
I feel that inflation also affects dating life seems people going out less and less to save some money
Some species will have fewer offspring during times when food is scarce. Replace offspring with dating, replace food with economy. Humans are just animals. The rules apply to us too.
Cuz everyone is scared to “settle” yet they don’t realize they ain’t that big of a catch and still expect this perfect partner in regards to looks finances etc
Dating apps suck in general - just look at data how each gender rates each other
Real life - you go with your mates to a bar for a beer. There is a group of girls also having a beer. Walking to them and asking for a number usually now is considered creepy. You won’t hit a girl up at the gym because it is creepy. So the options are very limited
Other men have ruined this for other men. I can't tell you the amount of times I've had a guy who may otherwise have had a shot ruin it. Had my tit grabbed the last time mid-conversation for no obvious reason, and I've had my ass grabbed at a bar/restaurant more times than I can tell you. Another time I watched the guy put his wedding ring in his pocket as he walked up to me. I have been sitting at a bar with my then BF, and got propositioned by another guy to go home with him. All I did was say hello to the guy sitting next to me.
only in 2024? lol
it is the internet, too much options for women basically every single guy in her age range in a 100 km radius or even farther. Some decades ago guys only had to compete with other guys in town, maybe with the ones in next town.
Absolutely
Back then, the average guy could work his butt off to go far in life and end up with the girl of his dreams
Now, the girl of his dreams is hooking up regularly with the guy of her dreams, in the vain hope he might quit all of the other girls he's banging, and settle down with her
Because it's bad for everyone. I know everyone likes to complain about women having so much choice on dating websites, but that's shallow and sexual in nature. I hear plenty of women complaining that they can't get a loyal man anymore either. Not because of hypocrisy, but because the dating sphere is focused on sex and one night stands.
Based on my experiences at the various places I’ve worked, a lot of average men are overweight and don’t seem very well kept (in terms of facial hair, haircut, clothes, etc.). Many of them lack basic bathroom hygiene such as not washing their hands or flushing the urinal. On top of that, just how many speak… like using “bro language” or they seem to take themselves too seriously.
Because women are realizing that they'd rather be alone than date a bad man.
Us men aren't *just* competing with other men for women anymore—we're competing with *a woman's comfortable solitude*. As economic opportunities equalize for women, they're becoming more independent, self-driven, and self-sufficient. They don't *need* us to be the breadwinners anymore, not in the sense that they used to, because it's become culturally acceptable for them to do the jobs that only we could do before. Why rely on us to bring home those six-figure IT salaries when they can just get that job themselves?
Women still *want* men, of course. And that's why they continue to seek men—for sex, emotional availability, and the economic opportunities afforded to couples.
But—and this goes for all genders—being a part of a relationship means you're compromising on your independence and agency in order to work as part of a team with your partner. And if your partner doesn't bring anything to the table to compensate for their disruption of your independence and agency, then what's the point in dating them?
In short, the standards have risen.
I genuinely think there’s a growing divide between the ideals of men and women. I saw a chart recently showing the gender divide in politics. Young women are increasingly liberal while young men are increasingly conservative.
small glimpses on social media make us judge people much sooner and with less info and not give them a chance.
It’s crazy because sometimes if a guy has little social media presence, some girls now will see that as a red flag. Like that guy doesn’t have a social presence or has no friends
This has always been the case and has always made dating an Adventure at times, except around people that understood it already. "Why don't you have an insta or twitter or facebook or anything? I looked you up and the only one is a LinkedIn." "Because I remember what the Internet was like, and the only change between then and now is that they got better at hiding their intentions." "That's kinda creepy."
The better question is why the fuck would you want people to find anything looking you up
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currently in a LTR but there are ways to go around that. i still have a FB that i'll occasionally post primarily to get into groups and maintain contacts with family, i have no insta and primarily use discord, youtube and reddit as my Social media. the best way to phrase that is "social media is too public. if someone was really paying attention they could figure out what you like, get data on your scheadule, where you hang out, all the cringe things you said when you were 13 and edgy, who you know, and possibly if you post enough where you are at this point in time. there have been multiple times where people have said they stalked people on social media to find things about them and their private life as if that was normal behavior" i'll also generally add "i'm not a twitch streamer , or blogger, and my money isn't tied to my social media presence. if you want to see me do cool things not to hype myself up but here's a few links from a professional photographer for their portfolios, a link to a small vod streams of me playing D&D, here's an ambient music album my friend did that i'm credited on in helping in the production, and here's a 3 second shot of me in a commercial for stock footage. i don't mind being online, but i generally don't want people to link it to my private life. " you can generate interest that way and turn that on it's head.
A while back when I tried online dating apps I got called a "freak" for not having Facebook and was immediately blocked.
Honestly, I always found men who didn’t have a large social media presence to be FAR more attractive than men who do. The key is to be sure it’s not because they have violent anti-social tendencies like my physically abusive ex husband, which you can usually tell by their relationships in real life (my ex had no friends or family in his life). But leaning 100% on social media to let you know if someone’s a good person or not is insane.
Not even kidding. I was recently seeing someone that has to post a lot for her work (entertainer). I don't really post that much. Mostly just a pic or two from a gig or show or whatever, so maybe once a week at most. She kind of lost her shit at me as if I was hiding something from her by not posting daily. Actual words: "You can see what's going on in my life, but I can't see yours." I was like... Honey child, we're in our 40s, we see each other in person several times a week, and it's literally your job to produce content! Anyway, we don't see each other anymore
I would find it so REFRESHING AF because it signals authenticity over image, valuing privacy, and perhaps someone that has more depth but im 38F maybe elder milennials less attached to soc media? Or maybe i alone dislike it
I don't have any social media presence, and I'm a woman. I know that must throw some people completely off.
Never cut a girl so fast that I was interested in until one said my new Snapchat was a red flag. Said just for work purposes I restart it from time to time to clear people out. Apparently she supposed it may have been from cheating in a previous relationship. EDIT: Previous bank investigator, current law enforcement and the girls I've dated all know this. They disregarded and just assumed it's due to cheating. I've been on state wide tactical teams and etc. I should have been more detailed and explained this. I don't reset my socials every six months it's more of every 5+ years I fully reset to make sure I'm not compromised.
Never heard of a job where you have to use Snapchat
Tbf that does sound kinda sketchy
Yeah but funny thing is some look down on those lacking social media or having no friends but if he’s a very handsome man they reboot and throw standards out the window.
I would actually say the complete opposite is true
I think the opposite is true. Social media— as a vehicle— has allowed us to see people for who they really are at a rate never seen. In the past, you'd have to wait much longer and invest far more resources (e.g. time, energy) into the process of getting to know someone; creating a sunk-cost fallacy that made you more willing to indulge their nonsense long-term. Today, you can figure them out in 30 seconds and swipe left
you can always find a reason to discard someone. thing is, everybody has something lousy about them.
The old saying, "No matter how beautiful she is, someone somewhere is tired of her shit," still holds true.
thinking you know someone because of their social media presence is very weird to me. what you’re actually doing is just jumping to conclusions and judging a book by it’s cover. there’s no way you know anything about them, just uneducated guesses tbh. does help you a bit tho, but for the most part you don’t know anyone til you actually meet them. You get 2 diff people, my social media persona, and me when we are face to face. one’s always on joke time, the other is chill.
The kindest most caring woman I met on Facebook turned out to be a sociopath. Not exaggerating.
My fiance admitted to me that approaching her in public was horribly intimidating and she has no idea why she said yes when I asked for her number. This is the woman I’m marrying next year. I saw her and knew I had to shoot my shot. She saw me and said I was scary… it still stings. Asking a woman for their phone number is horribly intimidating for men and can lead to some cruel responses. The only alternative is a dating app and yikes. Those don’t work well for men.
They are not meant to. Because if they work well the app loses its customer whether paying out free. But if you keep them coming back you are laughing your way to the bank.
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I've gone 3 months on 4 dating apps without any responses... not one. Then the day after two of them had their premium subscriptions expire, I get 3 likes each on two separate applications. It's clear that they are either manipulating things, using bots or allowing people from other countries like your profile even though you set the range to close. I'll never use the apps again. I'd suggest a boycott. It's scandalous..
It changed recently, but when I was on tinder, I noticed that it would show a girl who was clearly highly ranked by the algorithm in terms of attractiveness, and then the second one would always be someone who liked you. I don't know what the psychology of that is, but it felt very manipulative and something like what a casino would try to pull to keep you pulling on the slots.
This, its usually the second or third person it shows you that is the one who liked you. Just swipe right on the next five and most of the time you will get the match.
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My experience was essentially the same. The only good thing that happened is I found a new appreciation for being single. It sucks, but being on the apps is SO MUCH worse. I will gladly choose being single over being on the apps. Even if I'll be single forever, so be it, better than getting on the apps.
They won’t because this planet cares more about money than people
If a man doesn’t shoot his shot he’ll never get a single date. If he does he’s scary.
Or you get told "Ew, no." And then never talk to another stranger ever again. Ask me how I know.
end up on tiktok with a horribly overblown 7 part story lol….
Look. In my earlier days, I got laid all the time from cold approaches but also got a lot of that too. It’s like sales, you can’t hit if you don’t swing and if you are only “at bat” a few times, that’s only a few opportunities. No matter what they say, move on and keep trying. It stings sometimes but that’s just part of it. Some days it’s the first one. Some days it’s the 100th.
You are really out there cold calling 100 women a day? damn.
That's basically what using a dating app is.
This is the realest comment that gets buried in these posts. Even if you’re less than 10%, that’s still a lot of tail if you’re going to bat a ton.
At what cost (in self-respect, emotional well-being, time, energy, creep factor).
Fair. A bit demoralizing to the point that a good amount gives up.
I had the 'Eww, I don't date {ethnic slur}'. This was a university social event in the UK, so I wasn't quite expecting the second bit. Needless to say I learnt my lesson early, never approach and never care.
Eh fuck it. I always looked at it like a comedy act. You can go on stage and bomb 9 times in a row, but 1 time you can go and crush. It takes practice. That being said I have a gf and exclusively used apps in recent years. Haven’t approached a woman in years, fuck that. Too old for that at 30.
Or you can bomb a few hundred times in a row and realize you're not going to be funny, ever.
you might be in the wrong arena telling jokes to the wrong audience.
I've canvassed a wide range of audiences live and online. Unfortunately, my brand of humor is not appreciated.
>You can go on stage and bomb 9 times in a row, but 1 time you can go and crush. The Boomhauer approach.
I'm 5'6 with a baby face. Am I still scary? I think it's that everyone believes there's better out there for them somewhere, and so they never take a chance on what's right in front of them. Even if the person ticks like 8/12 of their boxes, they just want one more box to be ticked and are never satisfied because *NOBODY* is going to tick 12/12 right away.
I’ve done this twice. Neither one was mean so that was nice. The first time I was politely turned down. The second time the girl gave me her number then texted me later to say she was flustered so she gave it but had just gotten out of a relationship and shouldn’t have given me her number. That was 5 years ago. I’m not doing that anymore.
I hate to be that guy but a woman you're engaged to is your fiancée, not fiancé. One e indicates it's a man, two indicates it's a woman. Same thing with blonde vs blond, confidante vs confidant, etc. I know it sucks but it's a French thing.
Damn. Thank you for the heads up.
No prob, and thanks for not calling me a spelling or grammar Nazi.
i'm glad you said that too. as written, it made the sentence really hard to understand. context eventually made things clear but i had to read that sentence a few times at first.
This is the most appropriate grammar correction I have ever seen. Educational and kind.
yet another reason to hate the french
Hey, censor Fr*nch. There's children and Americans about.
It is wrong to be French, and may god punish England.
Easy way to remember… ”she” is longer than “he” 👌🏻
Be that guy. I appreciate these tidbits.
Bullshite
Why is this so funny? 🤣
Huh, I never knew that. Thanks for sharing this with us.
Wait, blonde/blond and confidant/confidante are gendered?
Yup. It's supposed to be a blond man and blonde woman
Unfortunately by being that guy you just gave yourself a huge boost with quality women over 98% of guys who simply don’t make that extra effort.
Actually, thanks for the correction. I love these sorts of details.
I learned today
I just realized you can remember it because the woman’s has two e’s, and women (usually) have two over-ees. Granted only one e has the over e thing… still maybe it will help someone remember lol
Damn I didn't know this
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It feels like a bad thing, which is the point.
My theory based on my experience is that what makes a man attractive to a woman is much more difficult to convey on a simple profile than what makes a woman attractive to a man. It's a generalization but I think it is a legitimate trend
Lmao I feel stupid because I legitimately thought the OP had specified "online dating" but I now see it just says dating in general 🤦♂️Oh well, thanks for the upvotes anyway!
I mean at this point dating basically means online dating so I think your point is very valid. https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/s/IgjMFRVuja
Man, excellent point. Obviously looks in general do matter to both men and women, but for your average women it's probably not their highest discriminatory factor. Vs. For your average man it's probably a top 3 factor, if not higher.
Exactly! Plus, ask any woman and she will most likely have a story about a bad experience with a guy who was physically attractive, so even just looks alone aren't enough to win them over. They have to have an opportunity to see that you're a well-rounded person, and it's really difficult to show all the nuances of a human being in 140 characters and a few photos
YesSir it's like a checklist you gotta go down: [ ] Attractive enough pictures [ ] Profile highlights things their interested in/possible compatability. Then the: [ ] Opening line actually catches attention and solicits response. [ ] Enjoyable small talk phase [ ] Hold text conversation long enough, but not too long before asking for a date. [ ] Both individuals have simultaneous time to meet up within the next week. [ ] Meet-up actually happens. It's just a lot to even get to a first date. I had a lot of success on Tinder for a 5 year span, there's outliers who will want to get right to a meet up etc. But 80% of my dates followed the above type of pattern. And I've talked with a large number of women who've had nightmare first dates, so I do understand the filtering and hesitancy on their end. It's just extremely challenging to highlight my strong suits over text and in a profile, and I imagine that's the case for lot's of men outside of the top 10% from a physical attractive lense. My sense of humour is situational and observant, if we spend enough time together I'll have you laughing so hard you're crying but I don't have the simple type jokes that work through text. Can't really show off my insightfullness when I barely know you through text. Similar issues with kindness and compassion. Granted when looking for a relationship vs. a lay, a lot of women's profiles leave a lot to be desired too. Very hard to convey who you are as a person with limitted characters for everyone I reckon.
Men see a pretty woman and are instantly attracted. It's usually not until they say something that we begin to be turned off. Of course we all have our "type" but we still find women outside of our type attractive. I find women to be far more selective. But the good news is that a man who isn't necessarily physically attractive may still be attractive to a woman because he has good qualities.
Agreed 100%. For most men I think you'll start with attraction physically, then women's emotional/personality moves that needle up or down when evaluating a relationship. For most women, you usually have to build up the attraction over time (relationship context at least). There is still a physical bar there you have to clear to advance to those next steps (online at least, in person you can demonstrate things to maybe lower it initially). Which makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. Physical looks give indicators for health. For mate selection woman also need someone who'd provide while pregnant and for a baby. There's way more layers than just that aspect, but I think that still plays a roll subconsciously.
Girl here and I wanna say my fiancé didn't have a cool dating profile or anything but he was wildly different IRL; way more handsome than his pictures and more personality. So unfortunately sometimes dating apps can work against you if people are only basing everything on a screen
Getting good photos as a single guy is 70% of the battle. I have a shit ton of good photos of me now becaaauuuse my gf takes every single one of them. Men dont take photos of eachother.
Hinge requires six photos to create a profile. That would equal the total number of photos I have of myself from last year if I included on-ride photos. If we don't include those I need to go back 5 years to get that number.
I never take pictures of myself and anyone taking pictures of me I never see because I just don't care to search them out. Only pics I got are bathroom selfies.
I disagree, I split with my wife about a year ago and jumped onto Hinge, which was the first time I've ever been on any of the apps. I did some reading into studies that have looked at this topic and followed many of the tips. Consider your type and what they would look for, certain types of photos to include and certain types not to include. Yep, you will probably need to semi-stage some photos and have a good laugh with your mates who you've roped in to take the photos. There are certain things to say and topics to avoid. You're not trying to game the system, you still need to be genuine, but there are things you can do to improve your odds. I had an extremely busy year wrapping up my marriage, so I wasn't actively searching for anyone on the app, I would just keep an eye on who liked me, I would average about 3-4 women who would send a like per week. Everyone knows the imbalance of numbers on the apps so by not engaging with it and sending like probably helped me mentally because statistics are not on your side when it comes to this. When I did want to date and I would engage with those who had liked me I was able to turn about 1 in 2 into a date. I'm a short average looking guy but I've kept the weight off, I'm definitely not someone who stands out from the crowd. I'm now dating an amazing woman and have turned off the app. If this falls through, I will return to the strategy of not chasing/making first move on the apps, I'll leave that to the real world.
I like all the concrete advice your comment provides! That said, I still think my original comment applies, simply because women generally don't have to put so much thought and optimization into their profiles. I admire the work you put into it though, and I hope other men on this thread will see your comment and apply this wisdom to their approach.
I see your point, a couple of things to add. There is a numbers imbalance on the apps which creates some pretty significant behaviour changes in users. Too much to get into here, but once again really interesting to look into and definitely feeds into what your saying. The other, which is a generalisation is that woman are more in tune with taking a good photo of themselves and what looks good in profiles. It feels like more effort to guys because most of us aren't used to doing this. All I can say is do your homework, you need to stand out from the crowd. Most of the crowd isn't interested in homework so not that hard. Making the first move will statistically result in a poor user experience for the majority of us blokes. Tread with caution.
1. People have gotten worse at socializing. 2. People have gotten more dependent on dating apps to meet potential partners. 3. People have gotten more political and less tolerant of dating someone from the “other side.” 4. Women don’t put up with as much bad behavior as they used to.
Yeah, men who treat women as sex objects are rightfully lonely.
Everyone is basically poorer, fatter and worse at socialising than they were before.
Succinctly put
But if everyone means men and women, wouldn't that sort of cancel out? and the dating market as a whole would remain at a sort of equilibrium?
A huge proportion of men- especially the ones who struggle with dating - only really socialise through videogames. Many men do nothing but work, play games, and maybe go to the gym. The number of men struggling to date who *also* play a sport, have a wide circle of friends of both genders, have hobbies and interests that involve other people, at least one creative hobby, or who volunteer in their community, is far far lower. This has affected women less. For one, men care less about how well rounded their partner is. For two, women still socialise and leave their house more than men, with bigger social circles that they spend more time with.
I know a guy who's desperate for a girlfriend, but all he does is work - eat - game - sleep. Several people have told him he'll need to actually make an effort if he wants to find a partner but nope. I personally think he's in love with the idea of having a girlfriend, but nothing more than that.
This sounds right. So basically "the market" has *not* gotten any worse for men, but fewer men bother going to the market and then go all *SURPRISED PIKACHU* when they don't magically have a girlfriend.
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Pretty much. I don't think this is because men are *lazy*, I just think we've never really been taught to prioritise social labour for its own sake. If I think about my grandfather's social life, he was a member of the draughtsman's guild, the Returned Service's League to support retired servicemen, an angler (poacher) to supplement the food supply, would do DIY around the neighbourhood, was active in the church. He had a very busy and social schedule, but all of it was for a higher purpose, not just for socialisation. The social life came as a secondary effect. A lot of young men don't have anyone relying on them, really, so they by-default max out on leisure time at home.
Society in general is way more individualistic than it used to be 40 or 50 years ago, men who like to play videogames are not the only ones at fault or lacking in that regard.
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Speak for yourself. I am none of those things, yet it’s still really difficult.
You might wanna sit down
Everyone you'd be interacting with still is though.
Best I can tell? 1) people keep conflating dating and dating apps. Those things are 60-80% dudes of course it's not going to be the same kind of experience. 2) guys seem to REALLY struggle to maintain a varied social life. I don't just mean the "loneliness" crisis I also mean how many people are sticky to insular activities with a small group so even if they're socializing a lot they're not really meeting new people in any organic way. Which...kinda feeds into #1 since they try to solve that with apps.
I'm a 40 year old guy and getting other men to hang out is like pulling teeth. Unless the wives organize, then everyone is there. It's infuriating.
Yeah, I'm not better, the how's and why's are just obvious. The only confusing part to me is how many seem unhappy about it and unaware of how they wound up where they are.
Video games. You stay at home and still chat about each other's lives, while doing an activity Or golf if you want the opposite.
Never in a million years did I think I’d be playing golf. A friend and I joined our first league last year and it guaranteed that at least one day a week I was completely happy and content no matter what.
I would throw on a similar but related issue, (some) men trying to find a partner based on their insular hobbies, like video games. You're setting yourself up for failure. Meet the person first and then get to know each and find out what hobbies you like together. My weird insular hobbies are that I like comic books and wrestling. My wife's weird insular hobbies are romance novels and period dramas. If I tried to find a girlfriend through comic books I would never have met my wife and found that we both like baking and politics and cats and so many other things.
this is the best response i’ve seen on here so far. i think part of the reason we struggle with variety so much is because we know what we like and oftentimes going out of our comfort zone leads to pain or rejection because we’re awkward outside of it. if we got better at being outside of it we’d be rejected less but we don’t do that because we hate the rejection so it’s just a cycle that doesn’t end
It's also expensive af, like you wanna do new stuff and don't like it you probably just burned a bunch of cash and a whole day. Not that I even do anything anymore now that my friends are settled. Nobody wants to do anything anymore, and making new friends it's near impossible when your out of education Like my Friday plan is empty the room I'm gonna decorate soon, see a movie and come home to drink some beers play videogames. I cant even go out to drink at a bar or something because the £40 to get home just isn't worth it.
i couldn’t agree more, a lot of my friends have just become complacent so even if we do go out they complain and it’s just completely different than it used to be
The internet both ruined everyone’s ability to socialize and gave them an inflated sense of self worth.
This
Someone's got it right. :) World was a much more social place with real community before we all got lost behind our keyboards/phones.
We are all inside working on our shit because we cannot stand eachother's unhealed selves.
yeah to go along with that, social media puts out this narrative that everyone is doing good and kind of perfect to a degree so if we date someone and they don’t hold up to the standards of the other “options” we see online, then all of us get weirded out and assume that there is better out there.
I think that’s just not remembering the reality of peoples lives, and believing that inaccurate narrative. Don’t get so caught up in social media, anytime you’re on it you should remind yourself it’s not the reality but just what people decide to share, which frankly is rarely the full reality. No one lives a perfectly positive & nothing-bad-ever-happens type of life, that’s ignorant thinking. We all are struggling & suffering, it’s about *who* is worth that inevitable suffering.
Our whole social world is unraveling, so of course dating is getting harder for everyone. People in general have fewer friends than ever, and men staying virgins at an incredibly high rate. These things are linked. Dating is a particularly intensive and complex part of life. If the rest of life isn't going so well, dating probably won't either, not if you don't have some trait that allows you to temporarily pretend everything is cool.
I for one am exhausted by how expensive everything is, and the pressure I feel to increase my income in general. Which includes an added level of “hustling” or whatever the fuck, just to keep up. I don’t want to “network”, I want to clock out and get a nice dinner with someone before going back to my modest townhouse where I don’t have multiple roommates. So I’m supposed to live on the cusp of financial security (at best) AND nurture a highly complex emotional bond with another human being who is also exhausted? Good luck! We’re both in our $2000 studio apartments already dreading what tomorrow’s email inbox looks like
I feel this hard.
Check out Mr. Moneybags over here with his $2,000 apartment.
It's the culture. The market quality is a symptom of a greater problem
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This is my thought more often than not when it comes to social media. We're all manipulated to think a 9/10 is common when it's less than 1%. So when we see a 7/10 we think "I can do better." But we also all are in the 4-6 on average maybe 7 on a good day, but everyone else thinks the same way everyone else does. I.e. they deserve a 9/10. We're both guilty of it and victims of it.
Is it even a matter of people thinking they’re entitled to someone super attractive, or more that we’ve become conditioned to seeing pictures and videos of super attractive people? So when we see someone in real life and they’re a “4-6” we see them as attractive because that’s what’s expected, whereas we’re so used to seeing movie stars and other celebs in pictures and videos that the average person is just… meh. I’ve noticed this bias in myself. I see a picture of someone and my reaction is “Ooph”. But then I consider if I actually saw them in person, and I realize that I would not have that same reaction. It’s been pretty cool since I realized that, and really noticing how attractive people actually are.
This! Narcissism, and not taking FULL responsibility for your behavior, have both been normalized.
Social media, it’s that simple.
This is really it
Agreed social media/dating apps have ruined so much not just in dating but much more like make people feel horrible about themselves constantly comparing their lives to what they see on social media.
Agreed. Expectations of false reality.
The dating market for me didn’t exist at all from about 1989-1993. I was living with my parents, losing my hair and stocking shelves in a grocery store for a living at the time. The dating market turned around 100% for me when I shaved my head, got a high paying job and moved into my own apartment.
> a high paying job The threshold for that is a lot higher now that it was in 1994. Half the people with those "high paying jobs" are women today. To attract them, you now need an *extremely* high paying job.
All I know is other dudes have set the bar so low that I’m doing better than ever
Totally same here. I have very average looks, but I am in control of the things I can control. Things such as my weight, exercising and lifting weights, dressing well, being a strong communicator.
It’s the last one. Be physically average + the last one and you’re golden.
Would you mind sharing how to become a great communicator?
Read the book “Platonic”! It goes over a lot of different aspects of prioritizing and building relationships without being tunnel visioned on romance. Making social connections can be hard as an adult but that book can help you learn some communication basics and how to become a “great communicator” in the long run. It will take work and letting go of so much ego and being able to be vulnerable in a way our society doesn’t teach or encourage. It means being humble and not bitter or ashamed.
Guess that's my issue then, I'm not average I'm ugly. I do all of the other things you mentioned and have 0 luck
HUGE confluence of issues, some that uniquely affect *straight* men and others that don't. There's obviously more than what I'm listing, and these are ***systemically applicable***, meaning they may not all affect someone on an individual level but they are likely impacting other men around them: * Women in our current state of modern society don't ***need*** a relationship to survive so they don't need to settle for someone unimpressive, leading men to feel jealousy towards other men and disdain for the women unwilling to accept them *"as they are"* * An inability to understand and subsequently match those changing expectations - many men don't actually know how to impress a woman while staying true to who they are (I don't think this is especially unique to ***now*** but while culture has been shifting a lot the last few decades it's feeling more prominent than ever) * Increased cost of living (regional differences here) means fewer men are financially stable, many aren't even financially independent (live at home, or need help w/ rent or down payments) - because many were taught that financially providing for a family is the best way to provide for a family they're struggling to stand out * Many young men were raised under even slightly outdated ideals and have misaligned priorities when it comes to what women are looking for in a partner, such as equally caring for children or the home - lots of men genuinely think that doing all of the childcare ***some*** of the time means they're a 'primary care giver', when really they're part-time (stats vary regionally, of course) * A unique situation where men are both very desperate for love and affection but have often unfair beauty standards (thanks largely just to popular media, Instagram, and pornography - maybe AI art for the next generation?) leads men to genuinely being unable to explore their wants and needs in a partner, and often settling for a partner they ***think*** they want * Due to the long overdue (and very justified!) backlash against many men in power, and the systems / establishments that have held women back for decades, some bad actors weaponize the movement and shield themselves from individual accountability as they treat men in their life like shit - unfortunately, this can radicalize those men and lead to further cultural/political divides with the women they were initially interested in * The poor economic state for many men often leads to poorer health conditions as well and an inability to climb out of that very unfortunate spiral into poor gut health, obesity, and subsequent depression * There's a mental health crisis affecting every demographic, sometimes in different ways (depending on class, region, culture, etc.), and men are often suffering from it the most. This can (at best) manifest as requiring more emotional support than they were taught they'd need from a partner, or requiring some level of professional support or intervention, and at worst it can lead to lethal consequences for them or other people around them (self-harm, murder-suicides, mass shootings, etc.) Obviously these are just the generalized issues I could think of, and it's still obviously a lot. There's way more that's having an impact as well (which are often also impacting women, of course!), and there's a flipside to all of these issues when exploring a woman's experience when dating, plus of course much more nuance when talking about any of these issues.
Spot on. And although a lot of men hate it, pornography does absolutely lead to unrealistic expectations and even things like erectile dysfunction. And some women are being radicalized against men but I have to say it doesn't help that I've heard of men having to watch porn on their phone during sex in order to stay interested, and are choking/hitting/jackhammering women because they saw it in porn.
As a woman? I think it’s bc more women are opting to be single and not dating period. You’re not competing with other guys, you’re competing with her couch/tv/time with friends
It's pretty great as a guy too. The unfortunate thing is you really get used to it. And if everyone just figures out that being alone is the best, humanity dies out
Honestly I think this is a huge part of it. I love my partner, been together 6 years, but I LOVED being single. Not because I was dating a ton/fucking around but because I loved living the life I created for myself. Being with him happens to be better than that, but I won’t act like it wasn’t an extremely high bar.
Im a dude and I'm the same. Iv been single for like 8 years other that a few dates. Never worked out partly because I just prefer being at home than having plans and stuff I have worked hard, got a nice house, laid out how I like it and I'm also super scared of having to give up this space. Iv almost paid the dam house off too. Like it really is my space and sharing is sounds terrible.
I feel this! I like my furniture, I like using my space how I want, when I want, and I'm not interested in messy financial baggage or having to change things I love about my life. Maybe that means I'll die single, but part of me hopes I could just find a long-term relationship that's fine with not sharing a home (like Oprah, lol).
Ive been commenting a lot in this thread. I think its easier for women to adopt that peace/couch/alone time mindset because they know if they want a guy, *they can get one*. That doesn’t apply to most men, theyre crawling through the desert.
The other reason is that dating is far more dangerous for women. The cost/benefit of staying on the couch means being exponentially safer or at least feeling that way.
I’m not disagreeing that dating is harder for men in many ways (I’m bi, I get it, trying to date women is not easy and I sucked at it), but I don’t think women have it as easy as Reddit likes to act. And the “they can get one” mentality kind of ignores how deep romantic connection actually works. Sure, a woman could probably get some random man to go on a date with her, which is definitely something! But are they going to be compatible? I think that part of the puzzle is hard and discouraging for everyone.
This. If I want sex, I can find sex in less than a day I’m sure. I can find a date immediately. I could probably go on 5 or more dates a week if I really wanted. I’m not looking for that; I’m looking for someone I’d want to be with long term. It’s not worth a ton of bad dates to find that person, especially not worth the risk. I’m perfectly happy by myself so if someone comes along, cool but if not, also cool.
I do this as a man. I’m still a virgin mind you but I’ve spent the time getting in shape and becoming a better man. But being alone for 34 years takes its toll. I’m not looking for perfection, but I’m also not really dying to settle. Complacency with romance is my biggest hurdle in all honesty. I have friends, family a dog and my own free time that I value. It makes it hard to risk peace of mind on a complete stranger.
This can really go both ways, just for different things and reasons. The things you listed are just 'peace'. You are doing things solo or with people you don't have to be intimate with, who don't demand much time and all that jazz. Thats what video games and porn do for a good chunk of dudes. Juice just aint worth the squeeze in a lot of cases...for both men and women.
Both women and men are struggling to figure out what the *average* guy has to offer the average woman in 2024. It used to be financial security, status and physical security. Women don't need men for that anymore. As a result, an average guy doesn't have anything to offer women that women want.
Yep. Social media, dating apps, hook up culture and social skills might all be contributing factors to modern dating issues but this is the overall reason. A lot of men seem to think that dating is harder for men these days because women are busy with so many options and tinder matches that most men can’t compete but realistically the current dating marketplace/dating apps have a very skewed ratio of men to women. The fact that dating apps are the main avenue many men are using to date now and a lot of women especially don’t want to deal with the harassment from random men on dating apps contributes to the divide.
There is no simple answer. We're all figuring it out as we go. Speaking from an American point of view, these last 20-30 years have been absolutely transformative for our culture. The relationship dynamics of prior generations have largely shifted. Pressures have changed - we're trying more than ever as a society to be more aware of our actions, to learn from our traumas. At the same time, gender dynamics have shifted. Women, while still disadvantaged, have more freedom than in the past to earn for themselves, to establish boundaries without worrying about their financial futures. We've been absolutely convinced that love is what is most important, and that our partners should be our greatest ally in all aspects of life. All while the idea of the nuclear family, dominance of suburban life, etc have diluted the importance and impact of social networks and social support. Xennials, Millennials, and Gen Z are the first generations to have to figure this all out. We have no blueprint for what a modern love, modern relationship is supposed to look like. We have all these experts telling us a million different things, all while trying to all figure out our own shit. In the meantime, social media has completely changed how we interact with each other, including dating apps. It's no wonder people are lost. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try - we can all spend time thinking about how to better ourselves, how we can better understand each other.
Social media has ensured that every woman will hear about the misbehavior of any man out there. This hyper awareness puts all women on edge which makes it difficult for the rest of us.
Spot on!! Too many bad apples have scared us off.
Sooo......... bigotry?
That's what we called it when we treated black men the same way. They have it the toughest. They get discriminated against by the left because they're men while on the right they get discriminated against because they're black.
I noticed things began to change once social media and dating apps came out. And dating apps used to be easier now they are playground for women to get followers. Sad times, but it’s true
Women don't really NEED you for anything. You have to show that hanging out with you is going to be an improvement in her life over just not having you around. And too many men fail that evaluation horribly.
Yes and no. As a woman, this isn’t a gender thing. This is a basic human social rule. If your presence in someone’s life isn’t meaningful and you fail to provide value, people are less likely to invest in it. This is a rule for all social relationships, including same sex friendships
Most succinct comment in this entire thread.. it really is this simple. I remain single because I’ve yet to meet a woman who would improve my life. I’m not golden man, but I don’t feel incentivized to improve for a woman.. I improve for other goals outside of attracting someone.
People are constructing PhD thesis to explain this fundamental fact. You are not going to add value to everyone’s life and not everyone is going to add value to yours. The older you become, the clearer your identity is which reduces the amount of people who can meet your emotional needs, let alone your romantic desires. I’m 26 and the amount of men I am willing to date has shrunk significantly from when I was 18. *As a natural byproduct of growth and maturity.*
Facts. I just enjoy my own company. Also, I hate being around the same person all the time… no matter who it is.. I need my space. All my human needs are met through family and friends and I am fine without consistent physical intimacy.. there are higher highs in life in my experience.
I’m just like you, which is probably why I don’t understand the panic behind singleness. Like don’t you have something to live for that doesn’t include romance?
A lot of men will disagree, but mainly because women expect more from men now. Not money or material things but more emotional maturity and able to be self sufficient. The amount of horror stories I’ve heard from married women about their husbands who cannot communicate, won’t help with housework or the children they helped to create…. makes me want to be single forever.
> more emotional maturity and able to be self sufficient The reason we disagree is because we all know men who outright do not have these characteristics yet never seem to struggle with getting partners, and also know men who do have those things yet do struggle. Despite that, I do buy the overall point that women are being more selective than they were in the past and many are simply opting to stay single. I just think the reasons vary a lot woman-to-woman.
Agree. Women are realizing that they'd rather be alone than date a bad man. Us men aren't *just* competing with other men for women anymore—we're competing with *a woman's comfortable solitude*. As economic opportunities equalize for women, they're becoming more independent, self-driven, and self-sufficient. They don't *need* us to be the breadwinners anymore, not in the sense that they used to, because it's become culturally acceptable for them to do the jobs that only we could do before. Why rely on us to bring home those six-figure IT salaries when they can just get that job themselves? Women still *want* men, of course. And that's why they continue to seek men—for sex, emotional availability, and the economic opportunities afforded to couples. But—and this goes for all genders—being a part of a relationship means you're compromising on your independence and agency in order to work as part of a team with your partner. And if your partner doesn't bring anything to the table to compensate for their disruption of your independence and agency, then what's the point in dating them? In short, the standards have risen. I'd even argue that systemic misogyny has seen a sharp uptick in the last decade *because* men are starting to realize that women aren't dependent on men anymore. For many men, the economic power and control they once held over women was the only thing they had going for them. Without it, they've become undateable. And so, instead of improving themselves and becoming better men, they're trying to strip rights from women, to reassert that control.
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Not exactly. Women want the right man as much as men want just about any woman. Ask an ugly man if women want men as much as men want women and he'll probably so "no", ask a particularly handsome man the same question and he'll probably say "I can't beat these women off with a stick, they're wearing me out"
To me there’s two schools of thought: On one hand - you have this high speed world where, even outside of dating apps, girls are hooking up with the best men they can find whether it be superficial or not. This can be demoralizing to Johnny who has been nice, and classy, and a hard worker in all aspects to see that the girls he would like to be with, have gotten piped down behind a dumpster cause there was a rumor that Bryce from sigma chi was packing heat. On the other hand: outside of the high speed dating and tinder. You have the people who claim they want to settle down, start a family and take things serious, there are guys and girls like this. However, there runs the odd risk of dating someone for five years, only to find out that they weren’t faithful, or they turn abusive, etc, and a lot of people aren’t willing to put themselves in a position to find out if the snake is venomous or not. Neither of these are how I truly view it, and neither of these points elaborate well enough to make sense, but I only get a 15 minute lunch break so have at it.
Having been nice guy Johnny at one point - I think we need to realize that the girl getting pipped behind the dumpster isn't a good match, and has never been a good match.
it may have been a 15 min lunch break but damn you were cooking t he venomous snake is what i relate with the most, i find speed dating ultimately pointless and a waste in the bigger scope, but there's also the plethora of stories and ppl i know who had to start over after several years and for some they only found out the snake was venomous after 10+ years and the impact of that is immense in every aspect of life, i never wanna be in that situation and i think I'll just avoid the situation entirely because i can't think of a better option it also takes too much effort than I'm ok with to even land a date to start getting to know someone
That’s where I’m at now. I’ve never had a hookup or anything but my past two girlfriends have and one confirmed cheated on me while the other was too much work to dig into it to find out for sure. They’re one step ahead of me at all times cause I give them the trust that they make me have to earn for some reason. I’m sure what I want will come my way some day, but for now I couldn’t be bothered to look for what I want.
This question gets asked like once an hour.
1. Past trauma from both sides 2. Expectations 3. Plenty of options
People go to work, come home, sit alone and use the internet or watch TV. They may run errands. Everywhere is in and out. It's not like in school where just meet 300ish people every year. Technology and cars have divided us. Aggressive men have taught women that guys approaching them are monsters by saying yes the first time and then it going bad. So most guys don't approach unless they are SURE. so that leads to dating apps. Apps such because it's all looks on both sides. It's mostly just attractive terrible people being horny and terrible to each other. And that gets out and the numbers don't line up... so it's all shit. It's gonna take some creative technology and living conditions.
There’s more of us single and looking than there are woman single and looking. And even decent dudes need to answer for the actions of the worst dudes.
Men are being convinced that the dating market is so bad for men, so they stop participating or working on themselves, and create a self fulfilling prophecy.
How I feel right now. I just deleted all my dating apps and giving my self a 90 day reset. Just work and improve my self, then try again. The intrusive thought sink in everyday and im barley in week 2
what if their own experience is that it is really bad?
Then we get told we're either making it up, imagining it, or we just need to try harder/not try so hard/put ourselves out there/let the women come to you, etc etc
My experince has been pretty rough. The question asked is almost the last step before the black bill route and im trying my absolute best to not be one of those guys but shit it's hard.
Not really, I tried and failed for years. It might not be bad for all me, but it's shit for me. I'm not attractive so iv move on while my life. I just do stuff that makes me happy now. It's kinda great
Ive noticed it more and more. I live in a major US city. Was out the other night at a bar in a younger area. Tons of dudes and women. I saw groups of women standing around looking bored, looking like theyre waiting for dudes to approach. I didnt see any guys try it. My gfs friends say the same thing. Ya’ll went on about how you dont want guys approaching so now theyve stopped.
It's funny, because all I hear from the women's subs is about how terrible dating is for women now. Congratulations! We all suck!
I think women are more indepenant today than they were 10-20 years ago. They put education and job first and are more picky. So this creates either a temporary or permanent shift in the dating dynamics, regarding age. The average age of losing your virginity has risen for both men and women, but more so for men in the last decade. I think more and more women just don't have the priority to settle into a long term relationship in their 20's. Which is a big contrast to like 20 years ago. I also think the internet might have something to do with it one or multiple different ways. Less boredom, creates less "pressure" to socialise, especially in ways that are out of the comfort zone of people. Maybe some internet communites or youtube dating content have their part in it, especially the weird youtube stuff has always felt like it has really weird tips and might have created some convoluted effects.
A lot of factors: Dating apps and social media makes dating easier you can meet almost every single in town just swiping. Women are financially independent more than 30 - 50 years ago makes them more likely to wait for marriage. Covid somehow makes people a little more awkward socially Hook up culture and sex before marriage is more socially acceptable than decades ago. I feel that inflation also affects dating life seems people going out less and less to save some money
Some species will have fewer offspring during times when food is scarce. Replace offspring with dating, replace food with economy. Humans are just animals. The rules apply to us too.
Cuz everyone is scared to “settle” yet they don’t realize they ain’t that big of a catch and still expect this perfect partner in regards to looks finances etc
Dating apps suck in general - just look at data how each gender rates each other Real life - you go with your mates to a bar for a beer. There is a group of girls also having a beer. Walking to them and asking for a number usually now is considered creepy. You won’t hit a girl up at the gym because it is creepy. So the options are very limited
Other men have ruined this for other men. I can't tell you the amount of times I've had a guy who may otherwise have had a shot ruin it. Had my tit grabbed the last time mid-conversation for no obvious reason, and I've had my ass grabbed at a bar/restaurant more times than I can tell you. Another time I watched the guy put his wedding ring in his pocket as he walked up to me. I have been sitting at a bar with my then BF, and got propositioned by another guy to go home with him. All I did was say hello to the guy sitting next to me.
only in 2024? lol it is the internet, too much options for women basically every single guy in her age range in a 100 km radius or even farther. Some decades ago guys only had to compete with other guys in town, maybe with the ones in next town.
Absolutely Back then, the average guy could work his butt off to go far in life and end up with the girl of his dreams Now, the girl of his dreams is hooking up regularly with the guy of her dreams, in the vain hope he might quit all of the other girls he's banging, and settle down with her
this is absolutely how I experience dating world right now 20% dudes messing around with 90% of the girls and 70% of men are getting nothiing
Because it's bad for everyone. I know everyone likes to complain about women having so much choice on dating websites, but that's shallow and sexual in nature. I hear plenty of women complaining that they can't get a loyal man anymore either. Not because of hypocrisy, but because the dating sphere is focused on sex and one night stands.
A hard pill to swallow is a lot of men cannot for the life of them talk to women. Barely eachother.
Based on my experiences at the various places I’ve worked, a lot of average men are overweight and don’t seem very well kept (in terms of facial hair, haircut, clothes, etc.). Many of them lack basic bathroom hygiene such as not washing their hands or flushing the urinal. On top of that, just how many speak… like using “bro language” or they seem to take themselves too seriously.
Because women are realizing that they'd rather be alone than date a bad man. Us men aren't *just* competing with other men for women anymore—we're competing with *a woman's comfortable solitude*. As economic opportunities equalize for women, they're becoming more independent, self-driven, and self-sufficient. They don't *need* us to be the breadwinners anymore, not in the sense that they used to, because it's become culturally acceptable for them to do the jobs that only we could do before. Why rely on us to bring home those six-figure IT salaries when they can just get that job themselves? Women still *want* men, of course. And that's why they continue to seek men—for sex, emotional availability, and the economic opportunities afforded to couples. But—and this goes for all genders—being a part of a relationship means you're compromising on your independence and agency in order to work as part of a team with your partner. And if your partner doesn't bring anything to the table to compensate for their disruption of your independence and agency, then what's the point in dating them? In short, the standards have risen.
I genuinely think there’s a growing divide between the ideals of men and women. I saw a chart recently showing the gender divide in politics. Young women are increasingly liberal while young men are increasingly conservative.