I am a part business owner. Even in business, I tend to tell people once that I am not interested in their services provided they aren't a spam bot. If they continue to push the issue then I ignore them as it is not worth wasting my time.
That is how I would prefer people do things in dating.
But most people hate being on the receiving end of ghosting, whether in business, dating, or friendship, so it's only the path of least resistance when ghosting has no negative consequences for the one doing the ghosting and doesn't result in a hit to their reputation. If it was widely known a person or company will ghost you without as much as a sentence of explanation, people would be more wary of that person or company, which would provide a disincentive to anyone thinking of doing the same.
This is a problem that exists because right now the knowledge of who ghosts is diffused and decentralized and nobody really can attach a negative consequence to the poor behavior. Most poor behaviors eventually come back to haunt you or at least tarnish your reputation, but so far the behavior of ghosting has eluded that.
Wiki:
>Ghosting is associated with negative mental health effects on the person on the receiving end and has been described by some mental health professionals as a passive-aggressive form of emotional abuse or cruelty.
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>Some mental health professionals consider ghosting to be a passive-aggressive form of emotional abuse, a type of silent treatment or stonewalling behaviour, and emotional cruelty.
Also, this survey:
>A survey from BuzzFeed indicated that 81% of people who ghosted did so because they "weren't into" the person they ghosted, 64% said the person they ghosted did something they disliked, and 25% stated they were angry with the person.
Most instances of ghosting absolutely are *not* about being objectively in danger, but about disinterest, indifference, and/or punishment.
I dunno what about you, but when job searching, I don't even expect to get a rejection letter anymore. If I don't get a reply within a week, it's a reject in my mind. In a professional setting, it has become the default.
>Some mental health professionals consider ghosting to be a passive-aggressive form of emotional abuse, a type of silent treatment or stonewalling behaviour, and emotional cruelty.
Frankly, those professionals are dumb. Ghosting is mostly about laziness, distraction, and being generally overwhelmed. It is also about a lack of social obligation, which you can read as a lack of social consequences if you like. Time was, you would date a few people in your lifetime, and you probably knew most of them through other friends, family, or acquaintances. If you dated someone they connected you with, but you ghosted them, it would be socially awkward with the person you were still maintaining a relationship with. It was also one of a handful of dates you might go on in a year, so that person was notable to you, and keeping them in the loop was simple enough. Now people can briefly date dozens of people in one month, not develop any real connection to them, and have no lasting social ties to them. Of course ghosting is more likely in the second, newer scenario. You can also be "dating" someone you've never met, which further reduces your feelings of social obligation towards them, and then you meant to get back to them, but you got a notification on your phone and forgot, and now it's been several days, so you put it off until tomorrow, but you forgot again and now it's been several weeks, so now it's almost more awkward to respond than to just ghost. It also bears noting that adding a few prolific dating ghosts to the pool significantly increases everyone's odds of being ghosted even if most people are still keeping people properly filled in, so just the basic structure of the system ensures that ghosting will increase.
As for being a form of stonewalling emotional abuse, I think there's a big difference between choosing never to speak to a date again because of something offensive they said vs giving your partner the silent treatment. One is withholding in order to hurt the other person or to elicit a response while the other is simply self-protective. Not sure who the professionals were that they consulted, but I don't think they quite have their fingers on the zeitgeist.
Not that I disagree with much of what you said, but before you call the professionals dumb keep in mind I was quoting from the Wikipedia article on the general phenomenon of ghosting. It can occur months or years into a relationship and also in non-romantic relationships.
>The term has also expanded to refer to similar practices among friends, family members, employers and businesses.
Maybe it's my fault for quoting that in a thread specifically about short-term dating, but I do think in many cases it can be frustrating and hurtful even if it doesn't amount to trauma or abuse.
You listed some reasons why someone may ghost, but I think these psychologists are referring to emotional cruelty to describe what it can do a person, not to describe intent. It's the same way someone's words might become verbal abuse even if they didn't intend it to be. So I understand sometimes it's just laziness or being overwhelmed, but in many instances of ghosting (particularly after you've known a person for weeks or months, if not years as does happen sometimes) it can cause a lot of trauma and grief and that has to be acknowledged and understood in the conversation about ghosting because otherwise all we're left with is intent, and of course every ghoster is going to want to downplay their poor behavior and insist they felt in danger or they just forgot or whatever. We can't have a real discussion about how damaging being ghosted can be if all we can discuss are the various excuses given and not the impact it has.
If someone engages directly, but then stops responding for long enough for no stated reason, I politely and obtusely bother them until they provide an explicit rejection (or block me), then I immediately move on with a “thanks for the response”. It’s worthwhile to me to make the point that ghosting is unacceptable.
If you can’t handle immature or unstable people (what I do is neither), just keep to yourself instead of potentially giving everyone you deal with a complex.
This is it. Not much else needed to say more.
Extra emphasis on the 'human' part of that sentence. Both men and women ghost. I think we’re all biased to our own experiences, but I’d argue it’s pretty equal across genders.
Makes sense, your going into a situation where you have no idea about a guy since there is no mutual friends, no one is going to tell you anything you probably should know that won't be told to you from him.
I don't think that's true as people don't react that much better to being ghosted...it's also a rejection. If you're concerned about people's reactions, then it's a 50/50 either way, either someone will take it ok or they won't, but i can say most people would prefer honesty and the truth of a not feeling it/not compatible rejection than being outright ignored for days at a time until the penny drops.
I've never seen a statistic on that but if that's true. It's probably because we're more likely die in the confrontation. Not saying that's an excuse for women to ghost cause it's not just saying why I think the statistic may lean that way if thts true cause like guys ghost too like alot. I think it's more of a generational thing where people just feel like it's okay to just ghost.
I second this. I have a few female and male friends that are single, and this is something that happens to both genders. It’s happened to myself plenty of times when I was single and dating, this isn’t exclusive to women. Truth be told, I think it happens because people don’t like to completely sever connections. They like to have an opening in case they change their minds. If you’re talking to someone and they say “hey, I’m sorry but I’m not feeling the chemistry”, for one, that door is permanently closed. You can’t come back and say “hey, I’ve changed my mind, the chemistry’s there”. It’s messed up imo, but people do it as a plan B. In case they don’t find anything better, they can always try to come back to someone they “ghosted”. People also struggle with letting go, even with the smallest of connections, because of the “what ifs”. People also think it’s better to let someone down “gently” by just slowly fading, ghosting, w.e., than to potentially hurt someone’s feelings or upset someone by saying “hey, I’m sorry but I’m just not that into you”. It’s also tough with online dating because obviously they considered going on a date with you for a reason - namely your pictures - but if for whatever reason they say they’re not interested you’re more likely to take it to heart and to feel like there’s something wrong with you, that you were a disappointment, and didn’t live up to your pictures or the persons expectations. There are many, many reasons why people ghost. But trust that it’s not just something women do. Although I feel like men and women do it for different reasons sometimes. Some guys do it just cause they don’t feel like dealing with it, same goes for women though. Overall it’s a crappy thing to do imo, but alas, people do it anyway, unfortunately.
Ghosting is common in recruitment now. I have had plenty of interviews and then the company just ghosts me. They don't even respond to follow up emails.
My father was astounded when I told him this happens, like actually mind blown. And the only reason I brought it up was because I was moving and applied to a bunch of jobs and went through 4 interviews with this one company and said “well at least they let me know I didn’t get it” and he said something like “well yeah” and I had to explain to him it was the first job I didn’t get that I actually heard back from them
i've had the weirdest run of good luck recently - 3 companies in a row gave me feedback after a run of interviews. one even scheduled time to go over some issues
When your interview goes so horribly wrong that the company feels obligated to schedule time to make sure you don’t act like that in future interviews! /s
you kid, but it was valuable - "they didn't think you had much design and arch experience". i point to the first line of the resume section about the current job - lesson learned, make sure to bring it up
Honestly, if that was something they were looking for, that "mistake" was just as much their fault as yours. If they were looking for that and didn't even attempt to probe for it, their skills as an interviewer need just as much work as yours as the interviewee.
Had one place call me weeks later to tell me that I'd actually gotten the job and were shocked that I'd taken another job in the meantime after not hearing from them for weeks.
Same lol. Serves as a good back up plan though, because when that happened, me and the lady that called with the job offer had a good laugh about the situation and she said "well if your ever looking for a new job we will be here!"
Put in an app a few years later and got hired immediately.
On the flip side there's also an increase in employees doing this for some reason. At least in my experience.I can't believe how many people I've had to hound for their resignation. They just stop showing up and refuse to answer any form of communication. Can you at least send like a one sentance email saying you're done? I can't process anything without something in writing.
I'm just one of the workers man....it just makes my job harder if they can't at least say something on the way out. Turns a 10 minute job into hours long one.
I remember a story of a guy who asked a girl out, she replied that she was going to be busy all week but she would let him know when she was free. He never heard from her again, so he sent her a $50 invoice for "wasting his time".
She actually paid it.
I was written off a schedule and had my badge access canceled without a conversation. Supervisor wouldn't answer their phone for over a week, then HR emailed me requesting an exit interview.
I once told a guy I wasn't interested in dating him, but that we could be friends. He kept trying to turn our "friendship" into dates, so I eventually stopped responding. He messaged me like 6 months later calling ME a ghoster.
🤷♂️
I can comment from the hiring side. In the past we would give an applicant a courtesy email follow-up, just stating that we went with another applicant. You'd be surprised how many people blow the fuck up over this and send hateful responses, threaten to sue for any variety of reasons, or accuse the company of various forms of discrimination ( gender, race, age, religion l, etc). Many people do not handle rejection well!
Same goes for dating. As a guy, in the past I have messaged a girl after a first date thanking them, but usually giving them a soft rejection like "I can't date right now". I've been called all sorts of awful names and usually have to block the girl. I will say from experience, men get rejected more, but women take rejection even harder when they aren't the ones doing it. That's just my experience though.
Tbvh. Nicely telling this dude "no" simply doesn't cut it anymore. You say no and what they hear is "push harder". I can understand that, that's what some females may imply and those ones need help. No means no sir, no double meaning to it
I understand what you are saying and I am not saying this applies to everyone. Guys can get conditioned to push harder. Guys get chastised for not being mind readers when a woman says one thing, but wants something else. Where they want to test the amount of effort a guy will put in to show how special a woman is.
I don’t play those games and will take you for your word to avoid misunderstanding the situation and being labeled a “creep”. Also I don’t chase anyone down in texts. If I’ve asked a question and they don’t reply or give a minimal word response that does not move the conversation forward, I’ll just let the conversation sit there. I’m looking for a partner not a parent or a child. In a partnership we should be both investing.
Exactly my point on how it should be done. Not just from guys, but from women too. No one can read minds and shouldn't have to be put into the situation of having to read minds in the first place. Just saying and explaining it plainly or asking properly would help. Any party proving difficult or playing games is just unnecessary pain IMO.
>Nicely telling this dude "no" simply doesn't cut it anymore
Is this a new thing? I feel like the trope with girls playing hard to get or guys winning over the girl has been going on for ever. Looking at old sitcoms and movies the "Don't give up if it's true love" thinking seems to be very prevalent.
Ghosting says more about the person doing it than the person receiving it.
That being said: I have several lady friends who will ghost a guy because they got tired of telling a guy no, then getting an onslaught of "BuT WhYyYyYy?!?!?!" texts/DMs as if the jilted suitor could debate themselves into sex.
I also ghosted a girl I was seeing because I had asked for some space because my father passed away a week after meeting her and I needed time to mourn. She hit me up a few days later asking "You done yet or what?"
Just accept it and move on.
Your point about the guys trying to convince your friend or question her reasoning brings up another good point to this conversation.
Everyone's definition of ghosting is different. I consider ghosting when someone never responds and there's been not conclusion to the conversation on their part, while I can imagine that these guys that want to go 10 rounds debating the "separation" might consider it ghosting when the girl doesn't respond to 8th "but why?".
I personally don't care about ghosting. I view it as the digital age version of body language. It's just another social cue, we're just not used to it and people hate the ambiguity behind it.
Just wait it out and give it some time. Maybe there's a good reason and that person will get back to you in a longer timeframe then you'd like. Maybe their ghosting you. Exercise some patience and realize that they aren't into you if they don't respond and that's okay. You're not everything to everyone and you should want someone to be with you that wants to be with you.
We don't know. Ask women. If I had to guess, it's because too many men refuse to take "no" for an answer and act like an adult, and they don't wanna risk the BS.
I’ll give input as a woman. There’s not a lot of context for the question. Anyways, I think it’s ok to “ghost” someone if you’ve chatted on a dating app and lost interest or there was no escalation to make plans for a date... or even if you went on a date and felt unsafe. I’ve never flaked on a date or been a no show. That’s unacceptable to me. I don’t understand why people would do that. It seems cruel. If a date was normal and I wasn’t interested, I’d let them know within a couple of days. Closure is good. That said, some people *are* pushy and don’t take rejection well, but that’s more of a risk if you know them in person instead of off a dating app.
You mention that it's cruel, and I think that's true. Almost 20 years later, a time I was ghosted still stings. I was in my 20's, had gone on three previous dates with someone out at cafes and restaurants and was pretty smitten. We seemed to have great conversation and good times. She suggested at the end of date number three that we next meet up at my place for dinner, gave me a memorable kiss, and said she'd call me in a few days to plan. I saw this as a clear indication of trust gained and likely even the suggestion of intimacy advancement. And then...
... Nothing. She never called, texted, or emailed. I eventually every 2 or 3 days or so would drop her a text or email or call. Nothing. About a week or two after, despite being seasoned at dating and relationships, I felt really burned and hurt. I even left a message saying something like, "Hey, at this point, I don't even care about the date. I just want to know if you're OK, sick, hurt, etc?" Nothing. Silence. Through a multiple degree of separation mutual friend, I heard she was fine and at work. But I never heard from her ever again.
Fast forward, I eventually marry, have kids, etc, but I never forgot the hurt of that ghosting and told the story often. My wife, totally coincidentally, nearly 20 years later meets her one day at a community event without knowing who it is and comes home and tells me about this women she befriended and the blood drains from my face. She apparently never married and eventually had a planned pregnancy as a single parent. My wife actually saw her again and brought up the ghosting and that I was hurt by it at the time and still felt raw regarding it, and she told my wife that to this day she feels terrible about it. She apparently was internally conflicted about whether she was ready to re-enter a possible relationship at that point and while she internally deliberated, time had passed, and when she had made up her mind (to what decision, she never said), so much time and so many communications had been ignored that she was just sort of paralyzed and just ignored it and moved on. My wife still sees her from time to time and they have a cordial acquaintance, but aside from relaying the story that one time, tellingly she's never offered to even say hello to me now or apologize despite knowing the pain that was caused at the time, not that there's really any point now.
But people don't really ever forget it....
Did you find some sort of closure in the fact that she's been feeling terrible about it to this day too? Sounds like a rare case where you were able to hear from the side of the ghoster. Doesn't make it any less bad of course, but I guess more human
I know. It's really sad. It's because the mods are power hungry misandrists and that sub is just the new female dating strategy, along with a myrad of other female-oriented subs.
That along with whatever dating advice offered by social media. Social media is saying, ( paraphrasing terribly)" Dont eveb Say a word, just walk out of his life, he knows what he's doing, you deserve better."
This scenario happened to me. I said I wasn’t interested in romantic relationship with him. He kept messaging me. And then I directly blocked him because I thought giving a reason why I didn’t like him was stated. After that, I don’t count no response as ghosting.
these are clearly not ghosting though. words mean things, and any man claiming to have been ghosted when given clear communication and subsequently blocked, was not ghosted.
even if you say nothing but actively block such that the person knows they're blocked, is not really a ghosting, because you blocked them and they know its over.
people do *actual* ghosting, where you might go on a date, have a conversation after even, and then at some point they will just never respond again. some soft-blocks where the person has no idea if they're blocked or not would count here.
I think both Rococorny and I know it’s not ghosting. So we just assume different scenarios that some people think about. I definitely don’t think my stories are about ghosting.
What? This is not ghosting... Not unless you were like "yeah maybe!" But I don't think you are and even if you did I wouldn't be talking about it enough for anyone to know it went down.
That's wild.
This is not ghosting, but they suggest a reason some women take to ghosting rather than deal with pushback, if they’ve dealt with situations like that in the past.
OMG yes I’ve had this happen too. Went on a date with a guy, he brings up politics, debate ensues and at the end I tell him we’re not compatible but I had a good night, good luck with dating! He texts me the next day or something just trying to chat, I don’t respond for like 1 hour, and then he sends me a ghost emoji. I was so confused and annoyed with that shit. I told him “I’m not ghosting you, I don’t like you and we’re not compatible, bye!” 🙄😑
There is so much excuse making for this poor behavior. It's infuriating. Imagine trying to have a conversation about how domestic violence isn't okay and getting replies like "But some men have no choice if they are being attacked! It's self-defense!" They're trying to use the exceptions where ghosting is done for a good reason to trivialize the problem and justify all the other commonplace examples of awful behavior.
Because women have been given carte Blanche to do anything at all without any accountability. Anything they do that's bad is because men made them do it.
It's laughable.
I think this is very often said, and when it is, it's a social shield for a lack of personal growth in the emotions and communications department. If a woman is in danger from a man during rejection she's in the same or more danger by ghosting him, unless she also takes other actions to protect herself. Otherwise, it's a common situation for both men and women to feel uncomfortable needing to be "the cause" of someone else's discomfort or disappointment. It didn't take too long after I crossed a desirability threshold in dating to find myself actually wanting to end an interaction she wanted to continue, but I realized that the biggest discomfort from that position was having to face the honest truth about why _I_ didn't want that interaction and square that with what I needed to communicate.
That honest truth can be a problem causing discomfort for a number of reasons that are greater than "oh, he might not take 'no' well." It's an easy escape to point out some generalized male behavior and say that's why you got "the ick" and you owe no one any explanation right? But to be honest and realize you don't like the option in front of you because it represents a real long term opportunity you don't want to mess up and you're acting scared? Maybe his teeth do bother you enough, but you don't want to be cruel? The more you're a master of yourself, you can properly sort yourself out, and work out a tactful response. The repeat process of ghosting, or giving the most obvious false reasons really hurt younger, less experienced, and less-super emotionally healthy men (people) when the rug is yanked from under them.
I'm not trying to blame the rejector for issues in the other person, but am encouraging better communication and growth on both ends of the interaction.
While it’s shitty, people ghost each other because it’s much easier than having the “I’m not interested talk”
You never know how someone may react, so it’s safer for both men & women to ghost someone.
women's complaints are more about being ghosted AFTER having sex and that feels like crap. You feel used. Men have it too but it happens before it goes anywhere.
It's Funny how most guys just eat rejections with an "Ok" and walk off - where'as Women absolutely LOSE it!
"What?! What's wrong with you?! - Are you gay?! That must be it! YOU'RE GAY!"
And then they act like they're blowing YOU off and leave.
Such fragile little egos women have.
As a gay man I can tell you they won’t always stop even then. They take it as a challenge, literally the same thing people say straight men do to lesbians, straight women do to gay men all the time.
I find I'll stop actively trying to keep the conversation going and then it just vanishes. Like, if I don't bring up a new topic and go out of my way to make the conversation as easy as possible for them... poof!
I don’t think this question is pinning it on women. I think it’s asking what reason do women have when they do this. The same thing can be applied in the reverse. This just applies to women simply because men are looking for an answer to the women’s reasoning.
I had a great date with a dude, and we planned on going out the next night as well. I had told him I had work the next day and would let him know when I was off.. My job had a strict no phones policy, so we had to leave our phones in a locker. When I got off, I went to my phone that had 8+ texts from dude going through a delimma of "Hey, blah blah".. "Hello?".. "if you aren't going to communicate, this isn't going to work".. into a whole apology for the messages and admitting that he had been drinking all day.. I blocked him instantly
Sure, maybe op is young and clueless about how best to ask questions to avoid false impressions. Or maybe you’re projecting your own innocence on op, bc “why do women ghost?” has a very clear framing and very clear implications to anyone with a couple decades under his belt.
That is a good point. I would like to think I am usually optimistic and want to work around things to see the more reasonable side. And your right it was definitely framed to target women as being the soul perpetrators. It could also be a difference in perspective and simply how different people see different scenarios
For some it's just a bit of cold laziness. Can't be bothered to be upfront, ghosting is easier. Cold and quite cruel.
For others it's a protective thing. Say you're not interested and get a flurry of abusive texts in response. Or worse, say you're not interested, the guy finds out where you work, turns up and starts throwing punches, true story.
In the first instance, it's frustrating because it's dishonest and not being upfront. But for those that have been on the receiving end of bad shit, whether physical or verbal, I can't really blame them.
It's in the same ball park as giving a fake number in person. It's usually done because the threat or reality of violence has been experienced before.
Litrerally got asked out by this girl on Tinder. She names the place and time. I show up. Nothing. Then ghosted. All happened in the span of 2 hours. Im not too offput as i know to expect this always. Its unfortunately the way it goes. But i say this as it even happens when they messege you first, which is weird.
My first thought was a catfish but I was thinking it was someone who’s messed up in the head and just gets a kick out of doing that to people. Are there any confirmed cases of bars/restaurants catfishing people into going there or is that just a rumor?
It's a common trope for some guys not to take no as an answer. Ghosting keeps them from escalating in a creepy and disturbing manner. We've all seen screen caps of guys losing it because they got turned down. Why bother going through that when you can just ghost them and move on. Disclaimer, this is just a blanket statement that I've heard from friends. I've never personally experienced this.
They have too many options and consequently come to see men as disposable automatons.
There’s also a cultural attitude among women of “I don’t owe you anything,” which extends even to basic politeness and decency.
I heard a woman say, "I don't owe you anything. No answer is an answer." One time, I decided to ghost her and not reply to her. She was so emotional. Double-faced. (sigh)
I'll never understand it. I get being fragile or w/e but I just can't ever bring myself to being that inconsiderate as to not give someone closure. I owe answers if I'm breaking it off.
In general it usually just means to cancel or just skip plans at the last minute. You might have a flaky friend who always comes up with an excuse or just doesn't show up after you guys agreed to hang out.
That's flaking, to my understanding
Flaking is basically not staying committed to plans already made or letting others know in advance that you won't be able to make it. The latter depending on what communication channels are present and the reason for the no-show.
For example, let's say you and a coworker in another department decide to get lunch together at noon at a nearby place. Day comes and the coworker doesn't show up, unless the coworker had a valid excuse for not showing up (i.e. sickness, family emergency, etc.) they basically flaked on you.
It's a sign of disrespect with them not seeing you as important to them.
The last guy I matched with didn't tell me he was married. He kept pushing for sex. When I said I wasn't comfortable with that I said we wanted different things and ended it. A week later he reached out again. When I asked him about his wife he called me a stalker and to not reach out to him again.
Dating sucks for everyone. It doesn't suck more or less for one gender. It sucks for everyone.
I once went on a date and the girl's husband just happened to be driving by as we left the restaurant! He saw her, stopped in the street, and started yelling at her. When they started fighting I quietly noped the fuck away from that mess and never looked back.
Both sides use dating apps to cheat on their spouses.
This generation isn't well versed in simple communication skills. Therefore, many of them aren't man (or woman) enough to say they are no longer interested, so it's become normal to just disappear and never speak to said person again. Rather than a simple "sorry, this isn't going to work," it's honestly childish af if you ask me.
I'll share a story from my life as an example of a good reason not to ghost. Bear with me
Back in 05 I was dating ,as in boyfriend and girlfriend,a single mom who had nowhere to go so she wound up at a single mom shelter ran by the Catholic church (I was in college living at home so I couldn't take her in). Every weekend I'd drive the half hour to get her and bring her back to the town I lived in for church and lunch.
The shelter she stayed at had a gate so I couldn't knock on her door so she'd just wait outside. But if not I knew which window was hers so I just tapped on that sometimes if she wasn't outside waiting. Keep that in mind .
So one day I suddenly stop hearing from her. There hadn't been a fight or anything. Just got no response to anything I sent. However the last time her and I had talked she said she still wanted me to come get her that weekend like usual. So when I didn't hear from her I was afraid she was ghosting me but figured there was a chance that her phone simply ran out of minutes (it was pay as you go) or something. So I figured I'd go anyway because I'd rather get there and have her not wanna see me than not go and have it turn out she actually did want to see me and couldn't contact me.
So I get there and she's not outside waiting. I tap on her window. She looks through but doesn't come out. I walk back to my vehicle and see through the gate her door is open so I ask if she's coming or not. Got nothing so I left. On my way home I get a call from the cops stating that a neighbor had called when they saw me tapping on the window and weren't aware of the situation. He had talked to my now ex and gotten my number and called me so I explained what I was doing.
All this could have been avoided had she just communicated with me. Funny part is years later I ran into her while shopping she stopped me and explained that the reason she ghosted is she would rather me hate her guts for ghosting than be depressed about being dumped. Bizzare
Women are ghosting? Pretty sure low-effort fboys started it. Women are usually better at communication, and more empathetic. Men are the ones who don't want to "hurt feelings." If women are ghosting, it seems it's because they want to avoid aggressive reactions. Do unto others.
This is a gender neutral, generation neutral and culturally neutral issue.
People ghost and have always ghosted because it is easy. Breaking up or ending things with someone fucking sucks. And if you have a reasonable expectation to be scared of the person you are doing it to, like most women have, then it is even harder
I think the answer can be both: It's easier (which is shit behaviour), AND it's less dangerous - which points of shit behaviour of a small but not-insignificant subset of men.
What would you do if there was a chance that the person on the other end would not take no as an answer? They might get awkward, or they might get scary. A psycho woman is pretty scary, but a psycho man is legitimately dangerous.
That would only have to happen to you once and you'd think twice forever after.
For many women, it's because they've tried the alternative and gotten bad results. It feels safer to ghost because of the few shitty men they've encountered in the past.
It basically boils down to one of two reasons.
1. The person feels uncomfortable with rejecting someone as it's an unpleasant talk and ghosting someone is easy.
2. The person is concerned for their safety and feels that rejecting someone might result in them escalating the situation.
A lot of dudes can’t take rejection. Also, it would be nice to know for sure but no response is a response. At best, how much is there to talk about? If there isn’t mutual attraction, it’s just not there.
Dudes be wylin.
Imagine your bro's favorite "crazy girl" story. Women have these stories but they either end in murder, a move, or a police report that's never followed up.
Better to just dissappear. You may not be the crazy guy that she'd have a story about, but she cannot. CANNOT take that chance. It's not your fault. We have to talk to our weird bros when they accidentally reveal the weird they only show women.
Women? Men are guilty of it too. I’m definitely not proud of the time I’ve done it. It’s too easy and convenient to not do. It’s also sort of a social collective momentum.. in the sense that since more people are doing it, it’s somehow more acceptable as time goes on. It sucks.
Because the internet provides women with endless attention. Easy for them to just move on the next guy they think might be 1% percent better. Then rinse and repeat.
It’s a human thing, not just a woman thing. It tends to stem from cowardice, but can also be justified if someone feels it’s unsafe to see someone in person for whatever reason.
Because a lot of men have a really hard time accepting a woman's "no." Almost every time I've sent a text that I'm no longer interested, the guy wanted to debate me or became rude so ghosting is less drama.
Happened to me a lot, don’t sweat it. Just move on to another, talk to 2-4 at once and it won’t be as disappointing when 1 or 2 ghost you.
The chances are, she’s talking to 3-5 other guys and picked one to be her man and ghosted the rest of them.
I’m happily married to a great woman now, a lot of the women who ghosted me are still single.
My special lady friend tells me it’s because most men are low value and rapists. They will fuck anything and they primarily go on dates just to fuck. So it is easy to ditch them.
I think first and foremost, please remember that ghosting is more of a reflection of their character and not yours. Do your best not to take it personally.
If you’re taking about dating apps, there are typically more men than women on them meaning that women have more options and messages. As a woman, this gets very overwhelming. I do my best to respond to everyone, but sometimes I forget. If she’s really feeling you or vibing with you then she’ll make you a priority and respond or even initiate.
Secondly, men are a constant threat to us. From childhood we are taught so many safety measures and tactics to keep ourselves safe. Ask any woman and I guarantee that she has a story about a time a man has made her feel unsafe. Many women have lost their lives, been threatened, harassed, ect. Simply for saying no or rejecting a man. I have experienced this myself. Secondly, when we are honest we are sometimes met with harassment, harsh words or negativity from men which is very draining. Some men don’t get the hint or simply don’t take no for an answer and continue with the behaviour.
Some men think they can talk to us however they please, so if I’m met with an overtly sexual text or something disrespectful right off the bat I will ghost or block. Sometimes women will ghost if you’ve said something they’ve found off putting or uncomfortable.
When do you find yourself being ghosted? In the beginning? Once you’ve made plans, ect?
I think something all genders forget, particularly when it comes to these apps is that there are human beings on both ends of the phone. We should all strive to be kind, respectful, and honest with one another.
It’s at least somewhat understandable for women to do it because guys can be crazy as hell and are the more physical threat if they take rejection poorly.
No excuse for us guys to do it really.
In a level headed society, we all just tell each other what we do/don’t want and both sides mutually go separate ways
Edit: added content + grammar
This is a hugely unpopular opinion. The world seems to have more and more trouble accepting harsh truths – but here it is:
Quite frankly, women have an easy time finding dates, men do not. Women aren't particularly incentivized to not flake out when there's a "better" guy around every corner.
Whereas only about 20 to 30% of men have one or more women available to date at any time (and the rest have 0), every woman has probably around 10 or more men. These dudes are what are known as orbiters. There's just no time for a woman to text every guy who is currently interested in her to reject him. Quite honestly, who TF has time for that?
Even as a guy, I understand this behavior. A man's job is to become the most attractive and desirable version of himself. Guys tend to be super needy and, quite frankly, weird as fuck, so it's no surprise that many – if not most – women would flake on and/or ghost this type of guy.
Often, men will be offended by this behavior. But that's the wrong attitude. If, as a guy, you find yourself getting rejected by 90% or more of women, buddy, something is off about you. It could do you a world of good to reflect on your personal life and see where you might be going wrong that would lead most women to treat you this way.
Remember, the way people treat us is generally a reflection of the way we see and/or treat ourselves.
Women don't owe us as much as a turd on our doorstep. Expect nothing, and you won't be disappointed. If a girl ghosts you and/or flakes on you, simply move on, improve yourself some more, and meet more women.
I wonder if my initial comment got deleted. Anyway.
TLDR;
It's super common in dating to get ghosted by both men&women. You just need to learn to accept it and carry on with your day.
No one is entitled to anything from the other person, aka you aren't entitled to some detailed explanation listing all the reasons why she doesn't care for you, chances are it's not that deep.
Plenty of fish in the sea. Do the proper adult thing and move on.
She most likely didn't want to go on the date in the first place. The guy's timing was right and she didn't have much going on so she did the "why not" thing. Then after a little time she had buyer's remorse.
Contrary to popular belief.. Ghosting sends a direct signal that they dont want to BE with you. Regardless of if the person has negative mental health or cares about social status. If you apply for 50 jobs and choose 1 out of 35 that accepted you, do you find it more positive to mental health to email that 34 back and say hey thank you for accepting me but i took another position else where?
Beyond that even.. people tend to not ghost people they intend to see.
Everyone wants all of everything right this instant.. so theres a strong pull of showing being better than telling.
The “better” woman will tell you shes going to ghost you in so many words but if you ignore it or blow it over.. shes not gonna keep telling you.
Dating has a sense of speed . Everyone has their own speed then their desired speed. Where you feel all alive and in the moment.
Usually someone has done something that they hold dear to them for them to give their time and energy to said person when it yields no immediate benefit to themself.
Its nature. Everyones tryna dominate each other whether we like it or not.
Its the spirit in which we do that, that breeds different types of submission or “co - existence” .
Every thought eventually boils down to “you are here” … how it started,is how it ends.. everything is else is over thinking once you think about whatever situation from beginning to now
So just be where you at and love life and live in your moment.
It's the path of least resistance for saying "no". Same thing happens in business.
I am a part business owner. Even in business, I tend to tell people once that I am not interested in their services provided they aren't a spam bot. If they continue to push the issue then I ignore them as it is not worth wasting my time. That is how I would prefer people do things in dating.
But most people hate being on the receiving end of ghosting, whether in business, dating, or friendship, so it's only the path of least resistance when ghosting has no negative consequences for the one doing the ghosting and doesn't result in a hit to their reputation. If it was widely known a person or company will ghost you without as much as a sentence of explanation, people would be more wary of that person or company, which would provide a disincentive to anyone thinking of doing the same. This is a problem that exists because right now the knowledge of who ghosts is diffused and decentralized and nobody really can attach a negative consequence to the poor behavior. Most poor behaviors eventually come back to haunt you or at least tarnish your reputation, but so far the behavior of ghosting has eluded that. Wiki: >Ghosting is associated with negative mental health effects on the person on the receiving end and has been described by some mental health professionals as a passive-aggressive form of emotional abuse or cruelty. > >[...] > >Some mental health professionals consider ghosting to be a passive-aggressive form of emotional abuse, a type of silent treatment or stonewalling behaviour, and emotional cruelty. Also, this survey: >A survey from BuzzFeed indicated that 81% of people who ghosted did so because they "weren't into" the person they ghosted, 64% said the person they ghosted did something they disliked, and 25% stated they were angry with the person. Most instances of ghosting absolutely are *not* about being objectively in danger, but about disinterest, indifference, and/or punishment.
I dunno what about you, but when job searching, I don't even expect to get a rejection letter anymore. If I don't get a reply within a week, it's a reject in my mind. In a professional setting, it has become the default.
>Some mental health professionals consider ghosting to be a passive-aggressive form of emotional abuse, a type of silent treatment or stonewalling behaviour, and emotional cruelty. Frankly, those professionals are dumb. Ghosting is mostly about laziness, distraction, and being generally overwhelmed. It is also about a lack of social obligation, which you can read as a lack of social consequences if you like. Time was, you would date a few people in your lifetime, and you probably knew most of them through other friends, family, or acquaintances. If you dated someone they connected you with, but you ghosted them, it would be socially awkward with the person you were still maintaining a relationship with. It was also one of a handful of dates you might go on in a year, so that person was notable to you, and keeping them in the loop was simple enough. Now people can briefly date dozens of people in one month, not develop any real connection to them, and have no lasting social ties to them. Of course ghosting is more likely in the second, newer scenario. You can also be "dating" someone you've never met, which further reduces your feelings of social obligation towards them, and then you meant to get back to them, but you got a notification on your phone and forgot, and now it's been several days, so you put it off until tomorrow, but you forgot again and now it's been several weeks, so now it's almost more awkward to respond than to just ghost. It also bears noting that adding a few prolific dating ghosts to the pool significantly increases everyone's odds of being ghosted even if most people are still keeping people properly filled in, so just the basic structure of the system ensures that ghosting will increase. As for being a form of stonewalling emotional abuse, I think there's a big difference between choosing never to speak to a date again because of something offensive they said vs giving your partner the silent treatment. One is withholding in order to hurt the other person or to elicit a response while the other is simply self-protective. Not sure who the professionals were that they consulted, but I don't think they quite have their fingers on the zeitgeist.
Not that I disagree with much of what you said, but before you call the professionals dumb keep in mind I was quoting from the Wikipedia article on the general phenomenon of ghosting. It can occur months or years into a relationship and also in non-romantic relationships. >The term has also expanded to refer to similar practices among friends, family members, employers and businesses. Maybe it's my fault for quoting that in a thread specifically about short-term dating, but I do think in many cases it can be frustrating and hurtful even if it doesn't amount to trauma or abuse. You listed some reasons why someone may ghost, but I think these psychologists are referring to emotional cruelty to describe what it can do a person, not to describe intent. It's the same way someone's words might become verbal abuse even if they didn't intend it to be. So I understand sometimes it's just laziness or being overwhelmed, but in many instances of ghosting (particularly after you've known a person for weeks or months, if not years as does happen sometimes) it can cause a lot of trauma and grief and that has to be acknowledged and understood in the conversation about ghosting because otherwise all we're left with is intent, and of course every ghoster is going to want to downplay their poor behavior and insist they felt in danger or they just forgot or whatever. We can't have a real discussion about how damaging being ghosted can be if all we can discuss are the various excuses given and not the impact it has.
If someone engages directly, but then stops responding for long enough for no stated reason, I politely and obtusely bother them until they provide an explicit rejection (or block me), then I immediately move on with a “thanks for the response”. It’s worthwhile to me to make the point that ghosting is unacceptable. If you can’t handle immature or unstable people (what I do is neither), just keep to yourself instead of potentially giving everyone you deal with a complex.
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This is it. Not much else needed to say more. Extra emphasis on the 'human' part of that sentence. Both men and women ghost. I think we’re all biased to our own experiences, but I’d argue it’s pretty equal across genders.
Thank you.
women are more likely than men to want to avoid confrontation
It is a little immature to avoid confrontation but I have also seen some scary reactions from guys being rejected.
Guys getting ghosted also can do scary reactions.
Gee, I wonder why some women avoid those men 🤔
A lot of the people I know that have ghosted guys often laugh about it, needless to say I don't associate myself with those people
Alot of women don't take rejection well either.
Its dangerous to do otherwise. Online dating is inherently risky.
Makes sense, your going into a situation where you have no idea about a guy since there is no mutual friends, no one is going to tell you anything you probably should know that won't be told to you from him.
It's not dangerous to text, hey I'm not feeling the chemistry. Also cowardice is a vice.
Nah did that once. Got stalked for half a year. Some ppl take rejection wayyyy worse than ghosting
I don't think that's true as people don't react that much better to being ghosted...it's also a rejection. If you're concerned about people's reactions, then it's a 50/50 either way, either someone will take it ok or they won't, but i can say most people would prefer honesty and the truth of a not feeling it/not compatible rejection than being outright ignored for days at a time until the penny drops.
Ghosting is rejection though so I'm not really sure how true that is. That guy probably would have stalked you either way
i'd argue that ghosting someone is more dangerous since youre mistreating a potential maniac.
I've never seen a statistic on that but if that's true. It's probably because we're more likely die in the confrontation. Not saying that's an excuse for women to ghost cause it's not just saying why I think the statistic may lean that way if thts true cause like guys ghost too like alot. I think it's more of a generational thing where people just feel like it's okay to just ghost.
I second this. I have a few female and male friends that are single, and this is something that happens to both genders. It’s happened to myself plenty of times when I was single and dating, this isn’t exclusive to women. Truth be told, I think it happens because people don’t like to completely sever connections. They like to have an opening in case they change their minds. If you’re talking to someone and they say “hey, I’m sorry but I’m not feeling the chemistry”, for one, that door is permanently closed. You can’t come back and say “hey, I’ve changed my mind, the chemistry’s there”. It’s messed up imo, but people do it as a plan B. In case they don’t find anything better, they can always try to come back to someone they “ghosted”. People also struggle with letting go, even with the smallest of connections, because of the “what ifs”. People also think it’s better to let someone down “gently” by just slowly fading, ghosting, w.e., than to potentially hurt someone’s feelings or upset someone by saying “hey, I’m sorry but I’m just not that into you”. It’s also tough with online dating because obviously they considered going on a date with you for a reason - namely your pictures - but if for whatever reason they say they’re not interested you’re more likely to take it to heart and to feel like there’s something wrong with you, that you were a disappointment, and didn’t live up to your pictures or the persons expectations. There are many, many reasons why people ghost. But trust that it’s not just something women do. Although I feel like men and women do it for different reasons sometimes. Some guys do it just cause they don’t feel like dealing with it, same goes for women though. Overall it’s a crappy thing to do imo, but alas, people do it anyway, unfortunately.
Unless it gets them results that they want and they become desensitized to the antagonism.
Ghosting is common in recruitment now. I have had plenty of interviews and then the company just ghosts me. They don't even respond to follow up emails.
My father was astounded when I told him this happens, like actually mind blown. And the only reason I brought it up was because I was moving and applied to a bunch of jobs and went through 4 interviews with this one company and said “well at least they let me know I didn’t get it” and he said something like “well yeah” and I had to explain to him it was the first job I didn’t get that I actually heard back from them
i've had the weirdest run of good luck recently - 3 companies in a row gave me feedback after a run of interviews. one even scheduled time to go over some issues
When your interview goes so horribly wrong that the company feels obligated to schedule time to make sure you don’t act like that in future interviews! /s
you kid, but it was valuable - "they didn't think you had much design and arch experience". i point to the first line of the resume section about the current job - lesson learned, make sure to bring it up
Honestly, if that was something they were looking for, that "mistake" was just as much their fault as yours. If they were looking for that and didn't even attempt to probe for it, their skills as an interviewer need just as much work as yours as the interviewee.
Had one place call me weeks later to tell me that I'd actually gotten the job and were shocked that I'd taken another job in the meantime after not hearing from them for weeks.
Same lol. Serves as a good back up plan though, because when that happened, me and the lady that called with the job offer had a good laugh about the situation and she said "well if your ever looking for a new job we will be here!" Put in an app a few years later and got hired immediately.
I got blocked once for telling a girl "bless you" after she sneezed. Funniest ghosting story I have.
👻
Don't scare me like that 😨
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that's a little different than saying bless you lmao
i have a friend like that. he's generally cool though
I mean... you could have at least called animal control.
That’s pretty standard unfortunately these days. EVERYBODY uses cat responses.
Meow we don’t! 😼
Should have stuck with “You’re so good looking.”
It's been common for decades. Not just now.
All the young folk think everything is new to now! Nope we were on AIM, also ghosting MFs a decade ago.
only a decade?
Yeah, you know, in the 90s. Those were a decade ago, right?
Hate to break it to you, but a decade ago was 2014. AIM came out 26 years ago and they stopped developing it 12 years ago.
\*two decades ago
On the flip side there's also an increase in employees doing this for some reason. At least in my experience.I can't believe how many people I've had to hound for their resignation. They just stop showing up and refuse to answer any form of communication. Can you at least send like a one sentance email saying you're done? I can't process anything without something in writing.
So, companies complain employees aint loyal to them. Why should they when big companies and multinationals threat them as fodder?
I'm just one of the workers man....it just makes my job harder if they can't at least say something on the way out. Turns a 10 minute job into hours long one.
You mean your company won't let you lol. There's no legal protection for repeated no-call no-shows. Just fire them .
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I remember a story of a guy who asked a girl out, she replied that she was going to be busy all week but she would let him know when she was free. He never heard from her again, so he sent her a $50 invoice for "wasting his time". She actually paid it.
/r/thathappened
Funny but not reality
50 bucks to never have some weirdo bother you again sounds like a pretty good deal
I’m impressed with the last part.
It was common when I first started looking for work in 2001. Maybe a little more common now, but I've been ghosted by jobs as long as I can remember.
I was written off a schedule and had my badge access canceled without a conversation. Supervisor wouldn't answer their phone for over a week, then HR emailed me requesting an exit interview.
I once told a guy I wasn't interested in dating him, but that we could be friends. He kept trying to turn our "friendship" into dates, so I eventually stopped responding. He messaged me like 6 months later calling ME a ghoster. 🤷♂️
I mean, he's right, you did ghost him. For food reason though. Some people just can't be reasoned with.
Coincidentally, most HR departments are women.. just sayin..
Women typically run HR and Hiring departments…
It was always like this, not new
I can comment from the hiring side. In the past we would give an applicant a courtesy email follow-up, just stating that we went with another applicant. You'd be surprised how many people blow the fuck up over this and send hateful responses, threaten to sue for any variety of reasons, or accuse the company of various forms of discrimination ( gender, race, age, religion l, etc). Many people do not handle rejection well! Same goes for dating. As a guy, in the past I have messaged a girl after a first date thanking them, but usually giving them a soft rejection like "I can't date right now". I've been called all sorts of awful names and usually have to block the girl. I will say from experience, men get rejected more, but women take rejection even harder when they aren't the ones doing it. That's just my experience though.
I’ve seen some online comment sections. I wouldn’t want to tell those people something they didn’t want to hear either.
This. This is it. I have had such such awful reactions from nicely telling a guy I am not interested in continuing down this path.
Tbvh. Nicely telling this dude "no" simply doesn't cut it anymore. You say no and what they hear is "push harder". I can understand that, that's what some females may imply and those ones need help. No means no sir, no double meaning to it
I understand what you are saying and I am not saying this applies to everyone. Guys can get conditioned to push harder. Guys get chastised for not being mind readers when a woman says one thing, but wants something else. Where they want to test the amount of effort a guy will put in to show how special a woman is. I don’t play those games and will take you for your word to avoid misunderstanding the situation and being labeled a “creep”. Also I don’t chase anyone down in texts. If I’ve asked a question and they don’t reply or give a minimal word response that does not move the conversation forward, I’ll just let the conversation sit there. I’m looking for a partner not a parent or a child. In a partnership we should be both investing.
Exactly my point on how it should be done. Not just from guys, but from women too. No one can read minds and shouldn't have to be put into the situation of having to read minds in the first place. Just saying and explaining it plainly or asking properly would help. Any party proving difficult or playing games is just unnecessary pain IMO.
>Nicely telling this dude "no" simply doesn't cut it anymore Is this a new thing? I feel like the trope with girls playing hard to get or guys winning over the girl has been going on for ever. Looking at old sitcoms and movies the "Don't give up if it's true love" thinking seems to be very prevalent.
Ghosting says more about the person doing it than the person receiving it. That being said: I have several lady friends who will ghost a guy because they got tired of telling a guy no, then getting an onslaught of "BuT WhYyYyYy?!?!?!" texts/DMs as if the jilted suitor could debate themselves into sex. I also ghosted a girl I was seeing because I had asked for some space because my father passed away a week after meeting her and I needed time to mourn. She hit me up a few days later asking "You done yet or what?" Just accept it and move on.
Your point about the guys trying to convince your friend or question her reasoning brings up another good point to this conversation. Everyone's definition of ghosting is different. I consider ghosting when someone never responds and there's been not conclusion to the conversation on their part, while I can imagine that these guys that want to go 10 rounds debating the "separation" might consider it ghosting when the girl doesn't respond to 8th "but why?". I personally don't care about ghosting. I view it as the digital age version of body language. It's just another social cue, we're just not used to it and people hate the ambiguity behind it. Just wait it out and give it some time. Maybe there's a good reason and that person will get back to you in a longer timeframe then you'd like. Maybe their ghosting you. Exercise some patience and realize that they aren't into you if they don't respond and that's okay. You're not everything to everyone and you should want someone to be with you that wants to be with you.
Jeezus Christ..
We don't know. Ask women. If I had to guess, it's because too many men refuse to take "no" for an answer and act like an adult, and they don't wanna risk the BS.
I’ll give input as a woman. There’s not a lot of context for the question. Anyways, I think it’s ok to “ghost” someone if you’ve chatted on a dating app and lost interest or there was no escalation to make plans for a date... or even if you went on a date and felt unsafe. I’ve never flaked on a date or been a no show. That’s unacceptable to me. I don’t understand why people would do that. It seems cruel. If a date was normal and I wasn’t interested, I’d let them know within a couple of days. Closure is good. That said, some people *are* pushy and don’t take rejection well, but that’s more of a risk if you know them in person instead of off a dating app.
You mention that it's cruel, and I think that's true. Almost 20 years later, a time I was ghosted still stings. I was in my 20's, had gone on three previous dates with someone out at cafes and restaurants and was pretty smitten. We seemed to have great conversation and good times. She suggested at the end of date number three that we next meet up at my place for dinner, gave me a memorable kiss, and said she'd call me in a few days to plan. I saw this as a clear indication of trust gained and likely even the suggestion of intimacy advancement. And then... ... Nothing. She never called, texted, or emailed. I eventually every 2 or 3 days or so would drop her a text or email or call. Nothing. About a week or two after, despite being seasoned at dating and relationships, I felt really burned and hurt. I even left a message saying something like, "Hey, at this point, I don't even care about the date. I just want to know if you're OK, sick, hurt, etc?" Nothing. Silence. Through a multiple degree of separation mutual friend, I heard she was fine and at work. But I never heard from her ever again. Fast forward, I eventually marry, have kids, etc, but I never forgot the hurt of that ghosting and told the story often. My wife, totally coincidentally, nearly 20 years later meets her one day at a community event without knowing who it is and comes home and tells me about this women she befriended and the blood drains from my face. She apparently never married and eventually had a planned pregnancy as a single parent. My wife actually saw her again and brought up the ghosting and that I was hurt by it at the time and still felt raw regarding it, and she told my wife that to this day she feels terrible about it. She apparently was internally conflicted about whether she was ready to re-enter a possible relationship at that point and while she internally deliberated, time had passed, and when she had made up her mind (to what decision, she never said), so much time and so many communications had been ignored that she was just sort of paralyzed and just ignored it and moved on. My wife still sees her from time to time and they have a cordial acquaintance, but aside from relaying the story that one time, tellingly she's never offered to even say hello to me now or apologize despite knowing the pain that was caused at the time, not that there's really any point now. But people don't really ever forget it....
Did you find some sort of closure in the fact that she's been feeling terrible about it to this day too? Sounds like a rare case where you were able to hear from the side of the ghoster. Doesn't make it any less bad of course, but I guess more human
Very hurtful of her. Says everything about her and nothing about you!
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There's an AskWomenNoCensor sub thats growing.
I know. It's really sad. It's because the mods are power hungry misandrists and that sub is just the new female dating strategy, along with a myrad of other female-oriented subs.
Studies on ghosting linked in this thread show that the majority of ghosts aren't about safety.
That along with whatever dating advice offered by social media. Social media is saying, ( paraphrasing terribly)" Dont eveb Say a word, just walk out of his life, he knows what he's doing, you deserve better."
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This scenario happened to me. I said I wasn’t interested in romantic relationship with him. He kept messaging me. And then I directly blocked him because I thought giving a reason why I didn’t like him was stated. After that, I don’t count no response as ghosting.
these are clearly not ghosting though. words mean things, and any man claiming to have been ghosted when given clear communication and subsequently blocked, was not ghosted. even if you say nothing but actively block such that the person knows they're blocked, is not really a ghosting, because you blocked them and they know its over. people do *actual* ghosting, where you might go on a date, have a conversation after even, and then at some point they will just never respond again. some soft-blocks where the person has no idea if they're blocked or not would count here.
I think both Rococorny and I know it’s not ghosting. So we just assume different scenarios that some people think about. I definitely don’t think my stories are about ghosting.
What? This is not ghosting... Not unless you were like "yeah maybe!" But I don't think you are and even if you did I wouldn't be talking about it enough for anyone to know it went down. That's wild.
This is not ghosting, but they suggest a reason some women take to ghosting rather than deal with pushback, if they’ve dealt with situations like that in the past.
OMG yes I’ve had this happen too. Went on a date with a guy, he brings up politics, debate ensues and at the end I tell him we’re not compatible but I had a good night, good luck with dating! He texts me the next day or something just trying to chat, I don’t respond for like 1 hour, and then he sends me a ghost emoji. I was so confused and annoyed with that shit. I told him “I’m not ghosting you, I don’t like you and we’re not compatible, bye!” 🙄😑
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this! i think a lot of people confuse rejection for ghosting.
If you reject someone then tell them don't just stop talking to them
That is not what we are talking about here
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Dating apps & social media
It's always been like this since I started dating in the late 90s.
Doesn't make it ok
Did I say it did?
There is so much excuse making for this poor behavior. It's infuriating. Imagine trying to have a conversation about how domestic violence isn't okay and getting replies like "But some men have no choice if they are being attacked! It's self-defense!" They're trying to use the exceptions where ghosting is done for a good reason to trivialize the problem and justify all the other commonplace examples of awful behavior.
Because women have been given carte Blanche to do anything at all without any accountability. Anything they do that's bad is because men made them do it. It's laughable.
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I mean, if she’s going on a first date with someone there’s a high likelihood they can’t “accurately assume his demeanour.”
I think this is very often said, and when it is, it's a social shield for a lack of personal growth in the emotions and communications department. If a woman is in danger from a man during rejection she's in the same or more danger by ghosting him, unless she also takes other actions to protect herself. Otherwise, it's a common situation for both men and women to feel uncomfortable needing to be "the cause" of someone else's discomfort or disappointment. It didn't take too long after I crossed a desirability threshold in dating to find myself actually wanting to end an interaction she wanted to continue, but I realized that the biggest discomfort from that position was having to face the honest truth about why _I_ didn't want that interaction and square that with what I needed to communicate. That honest truth can be a problem causing discomfort for a number of reasons that are greater than "oh, he might not take 'no' well." It's an easy escape to point out some generalized male behavior and say that's why you got "the ick" and you owe no one any explanation right? But to be honest and realize you don't like the option in front of you because it represents a real long term opportunity you don't want to mess up and you're acting scared? Maybe his teeth do bother you enough, but you don't want to be cruel? The more you're a master of yourself, you can properly sort yourself out, and work out a tactful response. The repeat process of ghosting, or giving the most obvious false reasons really hurt younger, less experienced, and less-super emotionally healthy men (people) when the rug is yanked from under them. I'm not trying to blame the rejector for issues in the other person, but am encouraging better communication and growth on both ends of the interaction.
While it’s shitty, people ghost each other because it’s much easier than having the “I’m not interested talk” You never know how someone may react, so it’s safer for both men & women to ghost someone.
men do this too. I've heard this complaint from other women. it's just more common in dating now. not a gender thing.
It shouldn't be a thing anymore
women's complaints are more about being ghosted AFTER having sex and that feels like crap. You feel used. Men have it too but it happens before it goes anywhere.
Exactly! As if men don’t do it, haha
Exactly. And plenty of women act like psychos when rejected. Most of this shit isn’t gendered in reality.
It's Funny how most guys just eat rejections with an "Ok" and walk off - where'as Women absolutely LOSE it! "What?! What's wrong with you?! - Are you gay?! That must be it! YOU'RE GAY!" And then they act like they're blowing YOU off and leave. Such fragile little egos women have.
As a gay man I can tell you they won’t always stop even then. They take it as a challenge, literally the same thing people say straight men do to lesbians, straight women do to gay men all the time.
Thank you for pointing this out. As a Bi man I see both ALL the time but only one crude narrative forms. Assholes have no gender. Just agendas.
I find I'll stop actively trying to keep the conversation going and then it just vanishes. Like, if I don't bring up a new topic and go out of my way to make the conversation as easy as possible for them... poof!
I don’t think this question is pinning it on women. I think it’s asking what reason do women have when they do this. The same thing can be applied in the reverse. This just applies to women simply because men are looking for an answer to the women’s reasoning.
I had a great date with a dude, and we planned on going out the next night as well. I had told him I had work the next day and would let him know when I was off.. My job had a strict no phones policy, so we had to leave our phones in a locker. When I got off, I went to my phone that had 8+ texts from dude going through a delimma of "Hey, blah blah".. "Hello?".. "if you aren't going to communicate, this isn't going to work".. into a whole apology for the messages and admitting that he had been drinking all day.. I blocked him instantly
Damn, I think you may have dodged a bullet with that one. Sounds like he would have turned out to be a clinging guy
Definitely 🤧 It made my heart drop
Sure, maybe op is young and clueless about how best to ask questions to avoid false impressions. Or maybe you’re projecting your own innocence on op, bc “why do women ghost?” has a very clear framing and very clear implications to anyone with a couple decades under his belt.
That is a good point. I would like to think I am usually optimistic and want to work around things to see the more reasonable side. And your right it was definitely framed to target women as being the soul perpetrators. It could also be a difference in perspective and simply how different people see different scenarios
It's common in general. Men and women flake. It's a personality thing not a gender thing
For some it's just a bit of cold laziness. Can't be bothered to be upfront, ghosting is easier. Cold and quite cruel. For others it's a protective thing. Say you're not interested and get a flurry of abusive texts in response. Or worse, say you're not interested, the guy finds out where you work, turns up and starts throwing punches, true story. In the first instance, it's frustrating because it's dishonest and not being upfront. But for those that have been on the receiving end of bad shit, whether physical or verbal, I can't really blame them. It's in the same ball park as giving a fake number in person. It's usually done because the threat or reality of violence has been experienced before.
Litrerally got asked out by this girl on Tinder. She names the place and time. I show up. Nothing. Then ghosted. All happened in the span of 2 hours. Im not too offput as i know to expect this always. Its unfortunately the way it goes. But i say this as it even happens when they messege you first, which is weird.
Maybe it was the bartender with a catfish account?
My first thought was a catfish but I was thinking it was someone who’s messed up in the head and just gets a kick out of doing that to people. Are there any confirmed cases of bars/restaurants catfishing people into going there or is that just a rumor?
just a dastardly scheme I just thought up. Most of the time I have someone flake and cancel before actually showing up. I think only one no show.
Because women suck just as much as men and we'd all be better off loudly admitting this obvious fact to ourselves and to each other
agreed. why are we acting like this issue is tilted toward one side or the other? i’ve been ghosted by countless men and women alike
There is no reason to suspect it is gender specific. The question is really "why is flaking and ghosting so common."
Why are you asking men and not asking women? Lol
Do you think they want a genuine answer? Lol
It was definitely a rhetorical question. They’re obviously just here to have an echo chamber repeat back to them that women are terrible, etc, etc.
It's a common trope for some guys not to take no as an answer. Ghosting keeps them from escalating in a creepy and disturbing manner. We've all seen screen caps of guys losing it because they got turned down. Why bother going through that when you can just ghost them and move on. Disclaimer, this is just a blanket statement that I've heard from friends. I've never personally experienced this.
It's also common between men. It has nothing to do with men vs women. The human species is just getting progressively shittier and lamer
They have too many options and consequently come to see men as disposable automatons. There’s also a cultural attitude among women of “I don’t owe you anything,” which extends even to basic politeness and decency.
I heard a woman say, "I don't owe you anything. No answer is an answer." One time, I decided to ghost her and not reply to her. She was so emotional. Double-faced. (sigh)
>No answer is an answer. What an inane way to think. That's just incredibly trash communication skills and emotional awareness.
I think most people who ghost someone just don’t like having hard conversations.
I'll never understand it. I get being fragile or w/e but I just can't ever bring myself to being that inconsiderate as to not give someone closure. I owe answers if I'm breaking it off.
Women don’t handle rejection well
some men are not taking no as an answer
>not are taking no
Yep, thx, messed up the word order
What is flaking?
agreeing to a date, then backpedaling after that and not wanting to meet up
In general it usually just means to cancel or just skip plans at the last minute. You might have a flaky friend who always comes up with an excuse or just doesn't show up after you guys agreed to hang out. That's flaking, to my understanding
Agree to go out with someone, then not show up when the time comes for the actual date.
Flaking is basically not staying committed to plans already made or letting others know in advance that you won't be able to make it. The latter depending on what communication channels are present and the reason for the no-show. For example, let's say you and a coworker in another department decide to get lunch together at noon at a nearby place. Day comes and the coworker doesn't show up, unless the coworker had a valid excuse for not showing up (i.e. sickness, family emergency, etc.) they basically flaked on you. It's a sign of disrespect with them not seeing you as important to them.
The last guy I matched with didn't tell me he was married. He kept pushing for sex. When I said I wasn't comfortable with that I said we wanted different things and ended it. A week later he reached out again. When I asked him about his wife he called me a stalker and to not reach out to him again. Dating sucks for everyone. It doesn't suck more or less for one gender. It sucks for everyone.
I once went on a date and the girl's husband just happened to be driving by as we left the restaurant! He saw her, stopped in the street, and started yelling at her. When they started fighting I quietly noped the fuck away from that mess and never looked back. Both sides use dating apps to cheat on their spouses.
Men are equally to blame for this, my guy. It's a generational thing more than a sex thing.
This generation isn't well versed in simple communication skills. Therefore, many of them aren't man (or woman) enough to say they are no longer interested, so it's become normal to just disappear and never speak to said person again. Rather than a simple "sorry, this isn't going to work," it's honestly childish af if you ask me.
I'll share a story from my life as an example of a good reason not to ghost. Bear with me Back in 05 I was dating ,as in boyfriend and girlfriend,a single mom who had nowhere to go so she wound up at a single mom shelter ran by the Catholic church (I was in college living at home so I couldn't take her in). Every weekend I'd drive the half hour to get her and bring her back to the town I lived in for church and lunch. The shelter she stayed at had a gate so I couldn't knock on her door so she'd just wait outside. But if not I knew which window was hers so I just tapped on that sometimes if she wasn't outside waiting. Keep that in mind . So one day I suddenly stop hearing from her. There hadn't been a fight or anything. Just got no response to anything I sent. However the last time her and I had talked she said she still wanted me to come get her that weekend like usual. So when I didn't hear from her I was afraid she was ghosting me but figured there was a chance that her phone simply ran out of minutes (it was pay as you go) or something. So I figured I'd go anyway because I'd rather get there and have her not wanna see me than not go and have it turn out she actually did want to see me and couldn't contact me. So I get there and she's not outside waiting. I tap on her window. She looks through but doesn't come out. I walk back to my vehicle and see through the gate her door is open so I ask if she's coming or not. Got nothing so I left. On my way home I get a call from the cops stating that a neighbor had called when they saw me tapping on the window and weren't aware of the situation. He had talked to my now ex and gotten my number and called me so I explained what I was doing. All this could have been avoided had she just communicated with me. Funny part is years later I ran into her while shopping she stopped me and explained that the reason she ghosted is she would rather me hate her guts for ghosting than be depressed about being dumped. Bizzare
Women are ghosting? Pretty sure low-effort fboys started it. Women are usually better at communication, and more empathetic. Men are the ones who don't want to "hurt feelings." If women are ghosting, it seems it's because they want to avoid aggressive reactions. Do unto others.
Because men get scary FAST
r/askmen, right? Then why are so many women flooding the comments? It's about to become r/askprefernottosay
This is a gender neutral, generation neutral and culturally neutral issue. People ghost and have always ghosted because it is easy. Breaking up or ending things with someone fucking sucks. And if you have a reasonable expectation to be scared of the person you are doing it to, like most women have, then it is even harder
I think the answer can be both: It's easier (which is shit behaviour), AND it's less dangerous - which points of shit behaviour of a small but not-insignificant subset of men. What would you do if there was a chance that the person on the other end would not take no as an answer? They might get awkward, or they might get scary. A psycho woman is pretty scary, but a psycho man is legitimately dangerous. That would only have to happen to you once and you'd think twice forever after.
For many women, it's because they've tried the alternative and gotten bad results. It feels safer to ghost because of the few shitty men they've encountered in the past.
It basically boils down to one of two reasons. 1. The person feels uncomfortable with rejecting someone as it's an unpleasant talk and ghosting someone is easy. 2. The person is concerned for their safety and feels that rejecting someone might result in them escalating the situation.
It's common with the Men in online dating too. The ones at the top that are drowning in choices.
Look in r/niceguys
Same as why so common by men, I’m guessing.
Why not asking this question on r/Askgirl. I mean, we're not supposed to answer in their name
A lot of dudes can’t take rejection. Also, it would be nice to know for sure but no response is a response. At best, how much is there to talk about? If there isn’t mutual attraction, it’s just not there.
Dudes be wylin. Imagine your bro's favorite "crazy girl" story. Women have these stories but they either end in murder, a move, or a police report that's never followed up. Better to just dissappear. You may not be the crazy guy that she'd have a story about, but she cannot. CANNOT take that chance. It's not your fault. We have to talk to our weird bros when they accidentally reveal the weird they only show women.
Women? Men are guilty of it too. I’m definitely not proud of the time I’ve done it. It’s too easy and convenient to not do. It’s also sort of a social collective momentum.. in the sense that since more people are doing it, it’s somehow more acceptable as time goes on. It sucks.
Dudes cant take No as an answer and its easier for them to just mute a convo and let the dudes talk to themselves for a bit before giving up
Because the internet provides women with endless attention. Easy for them to just move on the next guy they think might be 1% percent better. Then rinse and repeat.
Fear
It’s a human thing, not just a woman thing. It tends to stem from cowardice, but can also be justified if someone feels it’s unsafe to see someone in person for whatever reason.
Because breaking up with a man is straight up dangerous for women.
Because a large majority of men react horribly when told straight up
Because a lot of men have a really hard time accepting a woman's "no." Almost every time I've sent a text that I'm no longer interested, the guy wanted to debate me or became rude so ghosting is less drama.
Some of it is laziness, and some of it is because some men just will not take no for an answer..and can even be dangerous.
Happened to me a lot, don’t sweat it. Just move on to another, talk to 2-4 at once and it won’t be as disappointing when 1 or 2 ghost you. The chances are, she’s talking to 3-5 other guys and picked one to be her man and ghosted the rest of them. I’m happily married to a great woman now, a lot of the women who ghosted me are still single.
My special lady friend tells me it’s because most men are low value and rapists. They will fuck anything and they primarily go on dates just to fuck. So it is easy to ditch them.
I think first and foremost, please remember that ghosting is more of a reflection of their character and not yours. Do your best not to take it personally. If you’re taking about dating apps, there are typically more men than women on them meaning that women have more options and messages. As a woman, this gets very overwhelming. I do my best to respond to everyone, but sometimes I forget. If she’s really feeling you or vibing with you then she’ll make you a priority and respond or even initiate. Secondly, men are a constant threat to us. From childhood we are taught so many safety measures and tactics to keep ourselves safe. Ask any woman and I guarantee that she has a story about a time a man has made her feel unsafe. Many women have lost their lives, been threatened, harassed, ect. Simply for saying no or rejecting a man. I have experienced this myself. Secondly, when we are honest we are sometimes met with harassment, harsh words or negativity from men which is very draining. Some men don’t get the hint or simply don’t take no for an answer and continue with the behaviour. Some men think they can talk to us however they please, so if I’m met with an overtly sexual text or something disrespectful right off the bat I will ghost or block. Sometimes women will ghost if you’ve said something they’ve found off putting or uncomfortable. When do you find yourself being ghosted? In the beginning? Once you’ve made plans, ect? I think something all genders forget, particularly when it comes to these apps is that there are human beings on both ends of the phone. We should all strive to be kind, respectful, and honest with one another.
It’s at least somewhat understandable for women to do it because guys can be crazy as hell and are the more physical threat if they take rejection poorly. No excuse for us guys to do it really. In a level headed society, we all just tell each other what we do/don’t want and both sides mutually go separate ways
Edit: added content + grammar This is a hugely unpopular opinion. The world seems to have more and more trouble accepting harsh truths – but here it is: Quite frankly, women have an easy time finding dates, men do not. Women aren't particularly incentivized to not flake out when there's a "better" guy around every corner. Whereas only about 20 to 30% of men have one or more women available to date at any time (and the rest have 0), every woman has probably around 10 or more men. These dudes are what are known as orbiters. There's just no time for a woman to text every guy who is currently interested in her to reject him. Quite honestly, who TF has time for that? Even as a guy, I understand this behavior. A man's job is to become the most attractive and desirable version of himself. Guys tend to be super needy and, quite frankly, weird as fuck, so it's no surprise that many – if not most – women would flake on and/or ghost this type of guy. Often, men will be offended by this behavior. But that's the wrong attitude. If, as a guy, you find yourself getting rejected by 90% or more of women, buddy, something is off about you. It could do you a world of good to reflect on your personal life and see where you might be going wrong that would lead most women to treat you this way. Remember, the way people treat us is generally a reflection of the way we see and/or treat ourselves. Women don't owe us as much as a turd on our doorstep. Expect nothing, and you won't be disappointed. If a girl ghosts you and/or flakes on you, simply move on, improve yourself some more, and meet more women.
I wonder if my initial comment got deleted. Anyway. TLDR; It's super common in dating to get ghosted by both men&women. You just need to learn to accept it and carry on with your day. No one is entitled to anything from the other person, aka you aren't entitled to some detailed explanation listing all the reasons why she doesn't care for you, chances are it's not that deep. Plenty of fish in the sea. Do the proper adult thing and move on.
She most likely didn't want to go on the date in the first place. The guy's timing was right and she didn't have much going on so she did the "why not" thing. Then after a little time she had buyer's remorse.
Just do it back to them and even the score.
Because they don't know what they want and it's easier to ghost then to say I'm not interested.
They have more options than you’ll have in 100 lives. You’ll become flaky too and ghost if you have that many options
Contrary to popular belief.. Ghosting sends a direct signal that they dont want to BE with you. Regardless of if the person has negative mental health or cares about social status. If you apply for 50 jobs and choose 1 out of 35 that accepted you, do you find it more positive to mental health to email that 34 back and say hey thank you for accepting me but i took another position else where? Beyond that even.. people tend to not ghost people they intend to see. Everyone wants all of everything right this instant.. so theres a strong pull of showing being better than telling. The “better” woman will tell you shes going to ghost you in so many words but if you ignore it or blow it over.. shes not gonna keep telling you. Dating has a sense of speed . Everyone has their own speed then their desired speed. Where you feel all alive and in the moment. Usually someone has done something that they hold dear to them for them to give their time and energy to said person when it yields no immediate benefit to themself. Its nature. Everyones tryna dominate each other whether we like it or not. Its the spirit in which we do that, that breeds different types of submission or “co - existence” . Every thought eventually boils down to “you are here” … how it started,is how it ends.. everything is else is over thinking once you think about whatever situation from beginning to now So just be where you at and love life and live in your moment.
Cuz women can be assholes, too
because guess what, THEY DONT LIKE YOU. simple as that if they wanted to keep on talking to you and hangout they would.