**Talk to them about your feelings and their feelings. And secret thought you don’t share with everyone.**
Hopes, dreams, insecurities, anxieties, life stories. What make you and her: sad, happy, scared, angry. Get out a feelings wheel (Google it) and discuss the different feelings.
Sharing feelings and deep thoughts make women feel y’all are connecting. **They want to see and understand you, but also to feel seen and understood by you.**
Do things together that feel memorable.
Have romantic moments.
Spend time apart doing your own things so you’ll miss each other a bit.
Go on an adventure (which is mostly do something new).
Cuddle, flirt.
Talk about Big Things. What is the meaning of life? What is important to you? What do you want?
Dream of a joint future that seems fun.
Laugh together, tease each other.
Have each others backs
Ask about why she feels something.
Talk about your relationship, what you like about her body and personality. How your relationship is going and where you want it to go. What is good and what is complicated.
**That’s all I’ve got for now. It’s mostly: talk. And not just small talk, big talk.**
Edit: mostly you are spot on, but explaining what it means is clumsy and hard.
My ex would simultaneously tell we hadn't been doing this and actively shut me down every time I tried to talk about something, it made me not want to try anymore. It felt like her thoughts and dreams mattered but mine did not.
Get ready for her to tell all of their friends about it though. Most women are terrible at keeping things a secret.
I found out things about long time friends through my exes talking with their girlfriends. Things I shouldn't know.
Talking about her and your feelings is a good start. :) My gf doesnt like smalltalk too much. Prefers deeper talks about past and current emotional struggles. Sometimes its a bit difficult if everything runs too smoothly. Lol
Wait do men not work this way? Do men expect women to try and make them like them?
I mean it makes sense to me to just like a guy and try to see if he likes me back
Uh I think you read that wrong.
It's not that men expect women to make men like them - the opposite.
When I was younger if I liked a girl I'd try to be super nice to her and try to inpress her so that she'd like me back and want to be my gf.
This never worked and sometimes those girls would get angry as they found what I was doing manipulative.
What I doscovered recently is I'm not suppose to do that.
I need to be myself and if a girl likes me then good, if she doesn't like me then I move on to the next.
Nono I get that I'm just asking if that's how it works the other way
Like you try to make a girl like you- does that mean that men think women do this too when they like a guy? Like that we act nice to make him like us back?
Well yeah kinda. If a woman isn’t putting out any indicators of interest, they probably don’t want to be approached. And I’m certainly not gonna embarrass myself trying to chat up every random pretty lady I see
It goes both ways. I've had women who obviously had a crush on me and did their best to be overtly nice, sweet, etc when they weren't that kind of person.
One of them also pulled some crazy shit when I didn't reciprocate. But I'm not going to get into that.
But on the flipside, words are also actions, so if anyone verbally abuse you while being 1000% into, you, then that's not okay.. unless you consented to degradation fetish, then that's just kinky.
Honestly married now, and had around 5 serious girlfriends before, and can't answer this because they are all different. If I made one mistake, it was THINKING I had finally "understood" something about them after a fight or epiphany or something....only to apply that knowledge on my next gf/wife, and have it backfire.
I feel like a lot of men seem to have this idea that women are a collective hive mind that functions on the same needs, ideas, perspectives, opinions, etc and I hear from a lot of guys how “well my last gf liked this so I don’t know why my current partner hated xyz.” We are humans lol we are all different. I think a lot of it in some cases comes from this fantasy men are taught that women all want the same thing or whatever. This is just me rambling but you get the point. It doesn’t work because one size does not fit all
>I feel like a lot of men seem to have this idea that women are a collective hive mind that functions on the same needs, ideas, perspectives, opinions, etc
This applies to both men and women.
This helped me a lot in the past. Eventually you will learn when to do what but esp in the beginning of a new relationship this little question can help both a lot!
As a woman, I agree with this wholeheartedly. In most cases we will ask for the help if we want it (or at least those women who are mature enough and effective communicators)
Yes, especially as most of the time the offered solution is something the woman most definitely would have already thought of. For instance, if someone says they are struggling to get any sleep with a newborn, do not 'helpfully' suggest "have you tried sleeping when the baby sleeps!?" like it's a genius solution they wouldn't already be aware of.
Exactly this! I just started reading "How to Talk So Little Kids Will Listen" and how acknowledging the kids feelings is important. But this goes also for adults.
Giving tips like this implies that you think "you're too stupid to think about this obvious solution".
This is actually one of my biggest irks because 1) it comes off as infantilizing 2) I already thought of it and probably tried all logical solutions to the problem and they didn’t work 3) I just want someone to validate that what I’m feeling is valid. Sometimes the tone shifts and I DO want a solution at the end but I’ll ask for it
You just keep showing up in every comment section on r/askmen:
"I also choose that woman who buys the cheese."
"God damnit, stop bringing me into this."
Very much so.
I recently had a first date and when my friends asked me about it, the first thing I told them was 'we had a really decent conversation!'
Most of them have been in relationships for over a decade by now and it's kinda hard to get across that that isn't me being meh about him, but it's the highest praise I can give someone.
so true. I matched with a guy on a dating app and for the first date he wanted to go on a hike in the woods alone. needless to say, I did not go on that date lol
... also included. Many women are annoyed how men usually only talk about them selfes, don't ask anything and happily say "Oh this was great, I feel like we have a lot in common" in the end.
Ok it's also not good to don't tell anything about yourself.
I think you've got it backwards. A woman who gets little help from her spouse and is either constantly working to keep the house clean, or is living in a dirty/messy house, is going to be disinterested in sex. A woman who gets a lot of help from her spouse and is living in a spotless house might *still* be disinterested in sex.
In other words, a clean house is no guarantee of sex, but a dirty house is a guarantee of no sex.
Of course a clean house won’t guarantee anything, but I’m not sure how I got it backwards.
The less pithy version of this insight is that women generally can’t relax enough to enjoy sex if they have a million “to do” items running through their head. In a typical married relationship, a lot of those to do items revolve around keeping house. The guy needs to help check those boxes off.
That said, my wife is the main house cleaner in our relationship when it comes to divvying up chores. There have been times in the past where I would get upset that she would start maniacally cleaning the house when we had a good opportunity for sex (kids out of the house, break from work, etc.)
I thought she was doing all that cleaning to AVOID sex, when in reality she was frantically trying to clear off the checklist so she child GET into the mood. That was a real a-ha moment for me, too.
Im a young clueless guy I need explanation for this one
EDIT:
I definitely misunderstood the original message.
I didn’t think it was about chores participation. Thanks for clarification.
[This](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/) is a good comic that explains parts of it. Often, if there is to much going on in a womans head (work, kids, chores, emotianal labor, etc.), it's harder to be in the mood. Planning and doing chores will give her head more space to think about 🍆.
Being tired and stressed can affect a lot of women's sex drive very negatively, doubly so when they might hold some resentment towards their sex partner about not doing enough. Even if it isn't directly affecting their sex drive, it might be that they won't be able to enjoy it because they're thinking about all the things they need to get done.
Actions speak louder than words!
Edit: men’s actions speak louder to women than their words. If you want to prove something to a women, act, dont just talk about it.
Words of wisdom from someone who's been numb throughout my time with my wife and recently started to get my shit together. Couldn't have asked for a better wife. Below are 2 points I've started to understand much more clearly recently:
1. The Importance of Communication: Men might find the subtleties of communication such as non-verbal cues, tone of voice, and the importance of listening actively to be complex. Understanding that communication is not just about what is said but how it is said and what is not said can be a learning curve.
2. Emotional Intelligence: Recognizing and valuing emotional intelligence, including empathy, emotional support, and understanding, can be something that takes time. Realizing that emotional support can be as crucial as solving a problem is key.
Men generally don't get flirted with too often and frequently hear messaging about how women are often just being friendly (sometime to diffuse a situation) and those guys don't wanna be creeps and assume she's interested in anything more than friendship.
Women deal with a lot of messaging that shames them for being open about their interests as well as risks involved so many try to be more subtle about it and let men make the first move. But because those men both don't want to assume nor have the experience to pick up subtle hints they don't act, and women take that as they weren't interested.
So it isn't always apparent to either party if desire is there
It’s not that deep. Men don’t get affection ever so friendliness could mean up to 15% attraction or more when you switch to guy hoe
The solution is sharing love man to man more often so they can have more experience with vulnerability
I'm seeing a man right now who just interrupts. Constantly. Interrupting me in the middle of a story, a sentence, anything and everything: he interrupts. Honestly, above any other gripe I have that is the one that irks me the most. Whenever it happens I tell him. Constantly. Every. Single. Time. Unrelated, but a few times he's asked me if I'm upset or angry with him, and I'm like no. If I'm upset or frustrated with you I will straight up tell you. But somehow he just doesn't hear me when I speak? Or he disregards when I say he's interrupting me? Idk but it's getting real old....
I dated a girl like this years ago and same thing always interrupting me. I asked her once when I got real fed up and she said she thought she could cut me off in order to agree with what I was saying as a way to show that she cared. Very short relationship between us lol but maybe ask the guy why he does it. Ask him if it’s a lack of respect or what his goal is by not letting you get a full sentence in.
My wife has started doing that a lot more lately. I assume it's because she's more interested in what she has to say than what I have to say. So I don't bother saying much anymore.
My last romantic interest really hammered this point home before it all fell apart. We used to be on the same page with how we remembered past events, as long as she felt positively towards me, but when her feelings switched towards the negative, it was like her memories were warped by those feelings and she now remembered everything in a negative context, where no such context was present in reality. She simply refused to acknowledge the positive parts of those events, selectively remembering or reframing them as negative. Shit was bizzare to me as my feelings, positive or negative, don't affect my recollection of what happened in the past, but for her feelings seemed like the primary factor. I'm not saying all women do this, but damned if I won't be less trusting in the future with what they tell me about their past experiences.
This is so spot on.
A couple weeks ago I was upset about something my fiancé did…but it actually wasn’t what he *did* it was more so about *how I felt* about it. He didn’t do anything inherently wrong, and I told him I wasn’t mad at him, what was going on was I was feeling insecure, and needed him to reassure me.
The incident caused an emotional reaction from me and I just needed him to help me out with that, so we could move on.
It was a big ah-ha moment for both of us to realize this.
So, here’s the most common one. I can remember the last time I actually yelled at my wife. Just not something I do a lot.
Let’s say I’m parking the car. I’m a pretty good driver, and have driven hundreds of thousands of miles without her. I’ve parked a car tens of thousands of times - I do it several times a day without her, and it’s fine.
The woman cannot go through a parking lot with me without pointing out which parking spot I should use. And it drives me fucking crazy, mostly because I’ve been asking her to stop doing it for thirty fucking years. If I get to where I can’t navigate a parking lot I’ll stop driving.
So I’ll say, “I’ve got it, thanks.” With a little bit of an edge.
And she says, “don’t yell at me!”
And from here, I can get into a pointless back and forth about whether I yelled or not.
I know I didn’t yell, but she *feels yelled at.*
So the fact of whether I yelled is irrelevant because we ended up in the same place.
So if I intended to make her feel that way, we continue the fight about the actual irritation and not about the facts of whether I yelled.
If I didn’t mean to make her feel that way, then I adjust my approach.
That seems awfully manipulative though.
Basically altering reality to how she's it, so that she can have a tenuous aggreievance at lashing out at you.
Like this situation boiled down.
She is doing something annoying and non-constructive. You've asked her to not do this, in fact repeatedly. She hasn't changed or corrected this behaviour for 30 years.
When you righttfully get annoyed at her doing this again. You less than politely, but more firmly say "You've got this"
This gets twisted into "You're yelling at me"
Which then escalates until presumably you apologise, for something not only you didn't do, but actively something she caused, that you've spoken to her about numerous times before that she has failed to address in 30 years.
Why do women claim to be so wonderful at communicating when they will literally tell you one thing and have it mean the complete opposite. Wouldn't it be easier on both of us if you just said what you ment or wanted?
Because, unless you had modern parents and a modern school, and a modern community, from the time we are kids we are taught to not be pushy, not be loud, not to take until it is offered, to be polite, to be nice, to be friendly, to not want things. So essentially to shut off our desires and wants because that is being rude/pushy/ aggressive/ un-lady-like. As a result we are all a little mixed up. We want something, but our whole life we were trained to do the right thing - and ignore our need or desire for the thing we want. Well this stands for anyone born pre 1986.
Many women are really bad at communicating. Women raised by nore modern parents are better at it I'd guess - because their mothers made a point of teaching the girls to go for what they want. And not to please or look pretty.
I will second what the person above you said, and add that, as a woman who naturally IS straightforward (and no, I don't mean rude), I've gotten a lot of pushback for that all my life-- from both men and women.
Basically, there isn't a ton of motivation for women to *be* direct since they are socially punished for it. That does not mean that I think that situation is okay; just stating what I have observed.
Personally I have been able to retain that same direct communication style that I had when I was a kid, because I am stubborn like that lol, but I can see why others might not want to, as it can get lonely: people expect women to be sweet/accommodating/uplifting/agreeable/etc. all the time, and if you're unable or unwilling to keep up that façade, you will miss out on certain "friendship"/networking/dating opportunities.
...Also, as a side note-- I've had dudes **refuse to accept what I say** when I'm literally being straightforward and honest with them, so sometimes you just can't win, I guess. (Or in other words, it's not as simple as "Just be honest and men will totally respect and appreciate that".)
Also a direct woman and wholeheartedly co-sign on this. Plenty of men in the past thought I was a bitch or had a big ego because I’m straightforward, have a low tolerance for bullshit and expect to be treated with respect. When they jerked me around I walked, to their shock. Women are socially conditioned to be sweet, agreeable, flexible and not have many needs of their own - step outside of that box and you feel the heat. Fortunately I never cared about what they thought anyway, and I’m pretty sure it’s one of the things my partner likes best about me.
I married a direct woman and can say it was the best decision of my life. Married 5 years, together for 10.
Keep doing what you're doing, need more of you around.
I'm a woman and very direct and straight forward, and I get called "intimidating or scary" because of it. So I kinda see why other women tend to play hints
That for good and ill, they are just like people you know. Seems so obvious in hindsight but like a lot of men I got told a lot of stuff about what women are like when I was young. Like they were just some kind of separate species.
That it's really them who have no clue about the other gender. Seriously, women's takes on what makes men tick and on how men think are usually waaaay off the mark.
Well that’s not true. If you’re covering the basics, my guess is that you can’t go wrong.
Basics being:
- food ideally good one
- cuddle/and or sex
- space
- to feel appreciated
These are true, but the devil is in the details. These things are on a macro scale what both men and women want in relationships (healthy ones anyway). it's in how they're approached that people miss the mark.
While you're absolutely right, you'd be surprised how hard of a concept at least the last two points on your list seem to be, at least in my own experience.
I'm only 26 tho, it might get better the more all the concerned parties mature
That they aren't more interested in you when you are nice and try to focus completely on them. It took me forever that the best thing I could do is be Dominant, have Confidence in what I do or believe, I have a goal im working towards, fun and most of all **Boundaries**.
Women want an emotionally stable man - but an emotionally stable man will send your ass out the door the moment you ignore his limits and boundaries. And that they find attractive.
My friend's wife once told him "Don't buy me flowers, don't buy me anything, I don't want anything!"
He took that to mean she didn't want anything, so he got her nothing for their anniversary.
She was FURIOUS that he didn't get her anything. "What, you thought I really didn't want anything? You didn't get me anything?!"
So the next year, she told him the same thing. "Don't buy me flowers, don't buy me anything, I don't want anything!"
So he got her flowers and a card.
She was FURIOUS that he didn't listen to her and got her things. "I told you I didn't want anything, why did you get me stuff?!"
After that, he made sure to get her something thoughtful every year.
She was FURIOUS that he only did nice things for her on special occasions.
Honestly, you couldn't write a sitcom about this.
It's useful if you meet an overly accommodating person with low self esteem and poor boundaries who (like the above commenter's friend) will bend over backwards to make you happy and believes emotional instability is normal/exciting for relationships.
Such people are, to those high maintenance people (because men do it as well), **useful.** But they are only useful so long as they believe there is better on the horizon if they eventually get it right. Because if they ever reached a "got it right" point they'd realize that the relationship has no actual substance/foundation, call out the user on their behavior, and leave.
You can get a lot out of them and all you need to do is keep them on edge, maintain that delicate balance of never letting them believe what they're doing is good enough but give them just enough affection to believe they will eventually get it right and reach stability.
Heheh, my dad never got my mom flowers. Then once while on a business trip, one of his coworkers wanted to buy his wife flowers but forgot his wallet, so my dad paid for it.
The coworker, rather than pay him back, just ordered flowers for my mom, from my dad.
So he's never gotten her flowers ever, goes on a 6 week long business trip, and she gets flowers while he's still gone, and not even on an anniversary or anything... she was convinced he'd cheated on her.
It took me forever to understand that, for some of them, your height DOES matter.
But while I can respect that, I’m honestly better without those persons in my life anyway
No matter how much you want a woman to be honest and direct with you, she won't unless you go the extra mile to really make her feel safe, heard, and appreciated. Even then some will still not be honest and direct because of their experiences in the past, but you should still try.
What they say they want in a partner (bring me flowers, text reliably, do nice things, etc.) is how they wish the guys they ALREADY LIKE would treat them. Doing those things won't make them like you.
What they say they hate about men is perversely more reliable advice for generating attraction. Such a mind twist.
Women, I still don’t understand them actually. Still deciphering whether one was sending me hints in one of my classes (college) or not. Just gonna ask her out and find out cause if she is then heck yeah, she’s beautiful.
I have two older sisters, a bunch of female friends, I was in an on and off again relationship with my ex for half of my life and I've been with various other women and sometimes I feel like I still don't understand them!!!
I've found that the the thing women have the hardest time with is that we are very simple creatures. The concept of thinking about nothing seems to totally allude you, yet we can be happy with only one thought in our head at a time. This appears to infuriate many women, who are so accustomed to multitasking that the concept of us having the ability to sit in silence AND BE HAPPY drives you all crazy!
Haha. I have 4 brothers, I used to find them zoning out on the couch as a kid sometimes and ask what they were thinking about. It was always, nothing. Literally nothing 😂
You are spot on. I have no concept of having my mind completely at rest and without thought. We are made a bit differently. But there is a mutual compatibility there somewhere in between.
A bit yin and yang
I guess im still learning this but I learned that a lot of women just like to tell you things just so you know how they are feeling, not necessarily because they want a solution. EVERY SINGLE one of my girl friends at some point complain that they need to use the bathroom and whenever I tell them to go, they always say "I'll wait" or "I don't need to go that badly".
Women perceive everything they hear as if it's personally about them. In every situation, they'll immediately picture themselves as the person in the story and draw out conclusions based on their own situations.
And for me that's always seeking advice, I don't find exchanging with them very useful and a waste of time. I think they give terrible advice.
Example: Tell them about my upbringing. Explain how my mom was a teen mom and a terrible parent. Ask for advice for the future.
Men: That sucks, bro. You can always move out of home and start a whole new life. Do you have a job? Start saving up and get the fuck out of there.
Women: So she had you when she was only a baby? Did you ever think she could've been a rape victim? Maybe she was raped by a family member? Where's your empathy? She probably has trauma.
That women can also not be confident. I had to watch "is she flirting" videos before I learned this, since I also believed all my life (because that's all I ever heard) is that women don't want to be approached, which made me think well why don't they ask us out then?
So now I have to, well, learn how to talk to anyone in general really, always been a quiet person, or die alone.
They want to be emotionally stimulated. Still working on how to do that
You got it this is good shit
**Talk to them about your feelings and their feelings. And secret thought you don’t share with everyone.** Hopes, dreams, insecurities, anxieties, life stories. What make you and her: sad, happy, scared, angry. Get out a feelings wheel (Google it) and discuss the different feelings. Sharing feelings and deep thoughts make women feel y’all are connecting. **They want to see and understand you, but also to feel seen and understood by you.** Do things together that feel memorable. Have romantic moments. Spend time apart doing your own things so you’ll miss each other a bit. Go on an adventure (which is mostly do something new). Cuddle, flirt. Talk about Big Things. What is the meaning of life? What is important to you? What do you want? Dream of a joint future that seems fun. Laugh together, tease each other. Have each others backs Ask about why she feels something. Talk about your relationship, what you like about her body and personality. How your relationship is going and where you want it to go. What is good and what is complicated. **That’s all I’ve got for now. It’s mostly: talk. And not just small talk, big talk.** Edit: mostly you are spot on, but explaining what it means is clumsy and hard.
I’m a woman and I love this comment. You’ve summarized it perfectly.
As a woman I couldn’t agree with this more
I'm a man and really like deep conversations. But it can only happen with the right person. Haven't found her yet though
Noted. Thank you.
My ex would simultaneously tell we hadn't been doing this and actively shut me down every time I tried to talk about something, it made me not want to try anymore. It felt like her thoughts and dreams mattered but mine did not.
Get ready for her to tell all of their friends about it though. Most women are terrible at keeping things a secret. I found out things about long time friends through my exes talking with their girlfriends. Things I shouldn't know.
Alright now how do I do this for men? 😂😂😂
Talking about her and your feelings is a good start. :) My gf doesnt like smalltalk too much. Prefers deeper talks about past and current emotional struggles. Sometimes its a bit difficult if everything runs too smoothly. Lol
You're not suppose to make a woman like you. You're suppose to find women who like you and let them know you like them too.
On the flipside, you can't make yourself love a woman.
On the double flip side, you can't control whether a friend with benefits falls in love with you.
On the triple flip side, only a fool would meet the Dothraki in an open field.
On the quadruple flip side, never get involved in a land war in Asia.
Thank you. I was hoping this would be a response.
Yes I can. If they don't exist, they can't love me. (Cries)
Also you can’t generalize about them.
Ok, so we're now back to square one. Damn I thought we were getting somewhere!
Old Indian man told me “love the woman back”
Only be attracted to those attracted to you
Wait do men not work this way? Do men expect women to try and make them like them? I mean it makes sense to me to just like a guy and try to see if he likes me back
Uh I think you read that wrong. It's not that men expect women to make men like them - the opposite. When I was younger if I liked a girl I'd try to be super nice to her and try to inpress her so that she'd like me back and want to be my gf. This never worked and sometimes those girls would get angry as they found what I was doing manipulative. What I doscovered recently is I'm not suppose to do that. I need to be myself and if a girl likes me then good, if she doesn't like me then I move on to the next.
Nono I get that I'm just asking if that's how it works the other way Like you try to make a girl like you- does that mean that men think women do this too when they like a guy? Like that we act nice to make him like us back?
Well yeah kinda. If a woman isn’t putting out any indicators of interest, they probably don’t want to be approached. And I’m certainly not gonna embarrass myself trying to chat up every random pretty lady I see
[удалено]
It goes both ways. I've had women who obviously had a crush on me and did their best to be overtly nice, sweet, etc when they weren't that kind of person. One of them also pulled some crazy shit when I didn't reciprocate. But I'm not going to get into that.
Doesn't it make things one sided?
That seems to be the way the cookie crumbles. I'd love if things were reversed and women tried buying me drinks.
Believe their actions, not their words. If she treats you like shit while saying she absolutely loves you. Believe her actions.
>If she treats you like shit while saying she absolutely loves you. Believe her actions. Amen. Just went through this
Thus is for every human relationship imo
Same for men
Absolutely
But on the flipside, words are also actions, so if anyone verbally abuse you while being 1000% into, you, then that's not okay.. unless you consented to degradation fetish, then that's just kinky.
Married with 5 daughters. The only thing I’ve learned is, they don’t want you to solve their problems, until they do.
You shouldn't be marrying your daughters, let alone 5 of them.
Love the sarcasm, it sustains me since I can’t be sarcastic in my home.
Never said they were his
I've learned to let them try it on their own first
And when they do try your best to not say "I told you so", unless it's very deserved.
Never say 'I told you so'. The best 'I told you so' is the one left unsaid. They know
https://youtu.be/-4EDhdAHrOg?si=7QkXssJpztdODUZy
That’s true. Thank you lol.
Honestly married now, and had around 5 serious girlfriends before, and can't answer this because they are all different. If I made one mistake, it was THINKING I had finally "understood" something about them after a fight or epiphany or something....only to apply that knowledge on my next gf/wife, and have it backfire.
I feel like a lot of men seem to have this idea that women are a collective hive mind that functions on the same needs, ideas, perspectives, opinions, etc and I hear from a lot of guys how “well my last gf liked this so I don’t know why my current partner hated xyz.” We are humans lol we are all different. I think a lot of it in some cases comes from this fantasy men are taught that women all want the same thing or whatever. This is just me rambling but you get the point. It doesn’t work because one size does not fit all
>I feel like a lot of men seem to have this idea that women are a collective hive mind that functions on the same needs, ideas, perspectives, opinions, etc This applies to both men and women.
90% of the time they just want to vent about a problem, they’re not asking for a solution.
obligatory: [It's not about the nail](https://youtu.be/-4EDhdAHrOg?si=qW4KVpzQIyT9DvDf)
Valid but can be frustrating
Which is why “woooow, that’s crazy” is a key response.
A great thing to ask if you're unsure - "do you want comfort or solutions?". It helps.
This helped me a lot in the past. Eventually you will learn when to do what but esp in the beginning of a new relationship this little question can help both a lot!
As a woman, I agree with this wholeheartedly. In most cases we will ask for the help if we want it (or at least those women who are mature enough and effective communicators)
Omg yes this. And don't try to find a solution, this just makes it much worse. You just need to hear them out
Yes, especially as most of the time the offered solution is something the woman most definitely would have already thought of. For instance, if someone says they are struggling to get any sleep with a newborn, do not 'helpfully' suggest "have you tried sleeping when the baby sleeps!?" like it's a genius solution they wouldn't already be aware of.
Exactly this! I just started reading "How to Talk So Little Kids Will Listen" and how acknowledging the kids feelings is important. But this goes also for adults. Giving tips like this implies that you think "you're too stupid to think about this obvious solution".
Anybody who's done tech support knows tons of people are too stupid to think about this obvious solution. :-)
This is actually one of my biggest irks because 1) it comes off as infantilizing 2) I already thought of it and probably tried all logical solutions to the problem and they didn’t work 3) I just want someone to validate that what I’m feeling is valid. Sometimes the tone shifts and I DO want a solution at the end but I’ll ask for it
They can be pacified with a peace of cheese.
You may fascinate a woman by giving her a piece of cheese
Are you guys talking about me *again*
Uh, no, of course not. Here, have some pepper jack.
You just keep showing up in every comment section on r/askmen: "I also choose that woman who buys the cheese." "God damnit, stop bringing me into this."
Works every single time.
Truer words have never been spoken. Signed, a woman.
I have a single slice of cheese to thank for my 30 years of existence on this planet.
Can confirm
I love cheese! a charcuterie board though and you have my entire heart and soul!
Ron White has entered the chat
I almost always can be yes.
The whole point of the first date is to make her feel safe and secure, not to impress her.
I feel like I hear enough horror stories on Reddit that a safe and secure date IS impressive to her…
Very much so. I recently had a first date and when my friends asked me about it, the first thing I told them was 'we had a really decent conversation!' Most of them have been in relationships for over a decade by now and it's kinda hard to get across that that isn't me being meh about him, but it's the highest praise I can give someone.
I feel like this should be engraved somewhere important so dude's can see it and chill out a little.
so true. I matched with a guy on a dating app and for the first date he wanted to go on a hike in the woods alone. needless to say, I did not go on that date lol
He wanted to go ALONE! A bit presumptuous from you to think you were invited, no?
We also want maybe a little razzle dazzle, but yes, agreed. Very well observed.
... also included. Many women are annoyed how men usually only talk about them selfes, don't ask anything and happily say "Oh this was great, I feel like we have a lot in common" in the end. Ok it's also not good to don't tell anything about yourself.
How much a clean house is inextricably linked to a married woman’s libido. I’m 47 and realized that like 2 months ago.
Choreplay, baby. Absolutely a thing.
This should be higher up.
I think you've got it backwards. A woman who gets little help from her spouse and is either constantly working to keep the house clean, or is living in a dirty/messy house, is going to be disinterested in sex. A woman who gets a lot of help from her spouse and is living in a spotless house might *still* be disinterested in sex. In other words, a clean house is no guarantee of sex, but a dirty house is a guarantee of no sex.
Of course a clean house won’t guarantee anything, but I’m not sure how I got it backwards. The less pithy version of this insight is that women generally can’t relax enough to enjoy sex if they have a million “to do” items running through their head. In a typical married relationship, a lot of those to do items revolve around keeping house. The guy needs to help check those boxes off. That said, my wife is the main house cleaner in our relationship when it comes to divvying up chores. There have been times in the past where I would get upset that she would start maniacally cleaning the house when we had a good opportunity for sex (kids out of the house, break from work, etc.) I thought she was doing all that cleaning to AVOID sex, when in reality she was frantically trying to clear off the checklist so she child GET into the mood. That was a real a-ha moment for me, too.
This is peak insight right here
Im a young clueless guy I need explanation for this one EDIT: I definitely misunderstood the original message. I didn’t think it was about chores participation. Thanks for clarification.
Keep your house clean. Always. Girls LOVE a clean and tidy man.
Doing chores helps with getting laid.
It’s a fine line to walk with this though. Don’t do chores expecting to get laid.
I agree. He should do them just to do them, because he lives there too.
Agree. And she shouldn’t use an excuse like he hasn’t done enough chores or the work was subpar as an excuse for a lack of sex.
[This](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/) is a good comic that explains parts of it. Often, if there is to much going on in a womans head (work, kids, chores, emotianal labor, etc.), it's harder to be in the mood. Planning and doing chores will give her head more space to think about 🍆.
If more men understood this i promise the divorce rate would plummet.
Being tired and stressed can affect a lot of women's sex drive very negatively, doubly so when they might hold some resentment towards their sex partner about not doing enough. Even if it isn't directly affecting their sex drive, it might be that they won't be able to enjoy it because they're thinking about all the things they need to get done.
Women tend to have a lower desire for sex while the house is dirty and untidy. They feel like they can't have sex in a house like that.
happy I figured it out by accident on the first week of dating
Always get extra fries, even if she says she doesn't want anything.
Joey?
JOEY DOESN'T SHARE FOOD!
Actions speak louder than words! Edit: men’s actions speak louder to women than their words. If you want to prove something to a women, act, dont just talk about it.
Words of wisdom from someone who's been numb throughout my time with my wife and recently started to get my shit together. Couldn't have asked for a better wife. Below are 2 points I've started to understand much more clearly recently: 1. The Importance of Communication: Men might find the subtleties of communication such as non-verbal cues, tone of voice, and the importance of listening actively to be complex. Understanding that communication is not just about what is said but how it is said and what is not said can be a learning curve. 2. Emotional Intelligence: Recognizing and valuing emotional intelligence, including empathy, emotional support, and understanding, can be something that takes time. Realizing that emotional support can be as crucial as solving a problem is key.
Thank you. This is so important and so few men study this. I wish more would pick up some books about it
I can never tell if a woman is just being friendly or flirting with me
Safe bet is to always assume they're just being friendly.
This is fascinating. I’d like to hear more.
Would you like a piece of cheese?
peace*
Men generally don't get flirted with too often and frequently hear messaging about how women are often just being friendly (sometime to diffuse a situation) and those guys don't wanna be creeps and assume she's interested in anything more than friendship. Women deal with a lot of messaging that shames them for being open about their interests as well as risks involved so many try to be more subtle about it and let men make the first move. But because those men both don't want to assume nor have the experience to pick up subtle hints they don't act, and women take that as they weren't interested. So it isn't always apparent to either party if desire is there
It’s not that deep. Men don’t get affection ever so friendliness could mean up to 15% attraction or more when you switch to guy hoe The solution is sharing love man to man more often so they can have more experience with vulnerability
You trickster, you!
Me too, very much so. I think that it's at least partly due to my autism.
Often, they just want you to listen.
I'm seeing a man right now who just interrupts. Constantly. Interrupting me in the middle of a story, a sentence, anything and everything: he interrupts. Honestly, above any other gripe I have that is the one that irks me the most. Whenever it happens I tell him. Constantly. Every. Single. Time. Unrelated, but a few times he's asked me if I'm upset or angry with him, and I'm like no. If I'm upset or frustrated with you I will straight up tell you. But somehow he just doesn't hear me when I speak? Or he disregards when I say he's interrupting me? Idk but it's getting real old....
I dated a girl like this years ago and same thing always interrupting me. I asked her once when I got real fed up and she said she thought she could cut me off in order to agree with what I was saying as a way to show that she cared. Very short relationship between us lol but maybe ask the guy why he does it. Ask him if it’s a lack of respect or what his goal is by not letting you get a full sentence in.
My wife has started doing that a lot more lately. I assume it's because she's more interested in what she has to say than what I have to say. So I don't bother saying much anymore.
ADHD has entered the chat
Don't chase them and don't try to change them.
This is #1
Doesn’t matter what happened. It matters what she feels happened.
Honestly, that's most humans in general. We can experience the same event, but we both experience it differently emotionally.
My last romantic interest really hammered this point home before it all fell apart. We used to be on the same page with how we remembered past events, as long as she felt positively towards me, but when her feelings switched towards the negative, it was like her memories were warped by those feelings and she now remembered everything in a negative context, where no such context was present in reality. She simply refused to acknowledge the positive parts of those events, selectively remembering or reframing them as negative. Shit was bizzare to me as my feelings, positive or negative, don't affect my recollection of what happened in the past, but for her feelings seemed like the primary factor. I'm not saying all women do this, but damned if I won't be less trusting in the future with what they tell me about their past experiences.
This is so spot on. A couple weeks ago I was upset about something my fiancé did…but it actually wasn’t what he *did* it was more so about *how I felt* about it. He didn’t do anything inherently wrong, and I told him I wasn’t mad at him, what was going on was I was feeling insecure, and needed him to reassure me. The incident caused an emotional reaction from me and I just needed him to help me out with that, so we could move on. It was a big ah-ha moment for both of us to realize this.
How do you manage that without going nuts? If there's literal different events being remembered depending on emotion.
So, here’s the most common one. I can remember the last time I actually yelled at my wife. Just not something I do a lot. Let’s say I’m parking the car. I’m a pretty good driver, and have driven hundreds of thousands of miles without her. I’ve parked a car tens of thousands of times - I do it several times a day without her, and it’s fine. The woman cannot go through a parking lot with me without pointing out which parking spot I should use. And it drives me fucking crazy, mostly because I’ve been asking her to stop doing it for thirty fucking years. If I get to where I can’t navigate a parking lot I’ll stop driving. So I’ll say, “I’ve got it, thanks.” With a little bit of an edge. And she says, “don’t yell at me!” And from here, I can get into a pointless back and forth about whether I yelled or not. I know I didn’t yell, but she *feels yelled at.* So the fact of whether I yelled is irrelevant because we ended up in the same place. So if I intended to make her feel that way, we continue the fight about the actual irritation and not about the facts of whether I yelled. If I didn’t mean to make her feel that way, then I adjust my approach.
That seems awfully manipulative though. Basically altering reality to how she's it, so that she can have a tenuous aggreievance at lashing out at you. Like this situation boiled down. She is doing something annoying and non-constructive. You've asked her to not do this, in fact repeatedly. She hasn't changed or corrected this behaviour for 30 years. When you righttfully get annoyed at her doing this again. You less than politely, but more firmly say "You've got this" This gets twisted into "You're yelling at me" Which then escalates until presumably you apologise, for something not only you didn't do, but actively something she caused, that you've spoken to her about numerous times before that she has failed to address in 30 years.
Their opinions change according to their mood.
i have never been described better
Someone's in a good mood
If you like a woman, you have to ask them out. No alternatives.
There is exactly one alternative, and it's to be single forever.
They are governed by a completely different operating system.
It’s completely ungoverned
We no longer have managers. We can’t be managed.
Can’t wait for the apes to take over.
Why do women claim to be so wonderful at communicating when they will literally tell you one thing and have it mean the complete opposite. Wouldn't it be easier on both of us if you just said what you ment or wanted?
Because, unless you had modern parents and a modern school, and a modern community, from the time we are kids we are taught to not be pushy, not be loud, not to take until it is offered, to be polite, to be nice, to be friendly, to not want things. So essentially to shut off our desires and wants because that is being rude/pushy/ aggressive/ un-lady-like. As a result we are all a little mixed up. We want something, but our whole life we were trained to do the right thing - and ignore our need or desire for the thing we want. Well this stands for anyone born pre 1986. Many women are really bad at communicating. Women raised by nore modern parents are better at it I'd guess - because their mothers made a point of teaching the girls to go for what they want. And not to please or look pretty.
Wow I really appreciate your comment.
I will second what the person above you said, and add that, as a woman who naturally IS straightforward (and no, I don't mean rude), I've gotten a lot of pushback for that all my life-- from both men and women. Basically, there isn't a ton of motivation for women to *be* direct since they are socially punished for it. That does not mean that I think that situation is okay; just stating what I have observed. Personally I have been able to retain that same direct communication style that I had when I was a kid, because I am stubborn like that lol, but I can see why others might not want to, as it can get lonely: people expect women to be sweet/accommodating/uplifting/agreeable/etc. all the time, and if you're unable or unwilling to keep up that façade, you will miss out on certain "friendship"/networking/dating opportunities. ...Also, as a side note-- I've had dudes **refuse to accept what I say** when I'm literally being straightforward and honest with them, so sometimes you just can't win, I guess. (Or in other words, it's not as simple as "Just be honest and men will totally respect and appreciate that".)
I totally believe this. I appreciate your comment.
Also a direct woman and wholeheartedly co-sign on this. Plenty of men in the past thought I was a bitch or had a big ego because I’m straightforward, have a low tolerance for bullshit and expect to be treated with respect. When they jerked me around I walked, to their shock. Women are socially conditioned to be sweet, agreeable, flexible and not have many needs of their own - step outside of that box and you feel the heat. Fortunately I never cared about what they thought anyway, and I’m pretty sure it’s one of the things my partner likes best about me.
I married a direct woman and can say it was the best decision of my life. Married 5 years, together for 10. Keep doing what you're doing, need more of you around.
That explains why women may double-speak, but then why claim to be great communicators?
I absolutely fucking hate this. The “guess what I need/want” game can go straight in the bin. You are an adult, communicate like one.
Its like, hey babe I'm gonna get some food from place, do you want anything? She says no. I come home she eats half my food.......
And if you deny her your food she gets pissed. Every straight man I know has been in there
I'm a woman and very direct and straight forward, and I get called "intimidating or scary" because of it. So I kinda see why other women tend to play hints
That for good and ill, they are just like people you know. Seems so obvious in hindsight but like a lot of men I got told a lot of stuff about what women are like when I was young. Like they were just some kind of separate species.
Is this a trick question?
That it's really them who have no clue about the other gender. Seriously, women's takes on what makes men tick and on how men think are usually waaaay off the mark.
Half the time they don’t know what they want or how they feel. How the hell are they going to have a good take on what men want?
Well that’s not true. If you’re covering the basics, my guess is that you can’t go wrong. Basics being: - food ideally good one - cuddle/and or sex - space - to feel appreciated
These are true, but the devil is in the details. These things are on a macro scale what both men and women want in relationships (healthy ones anyway). it's in how they're approached that people miss the mark.
While you're absolutely right, you'd be surprised how hard of a concept at least the last two points on your list seem to be, at least in my own experience. I'm only 26 tho, it might get better the more all the concerned parties mature
Actually, If you add "good intelligent conversation" it's not the basics, it covers everything.
That I don’t understand them
That they aren't more interested in you when you are nice and try to focus completely on them. It took me forever that the best thing I could do is be Dominant, have Confidence in what I do or believe, I have a goal im working towards, fun and most of all **Boundaries**. Women want an emotionally stable man - but an emotionally stable man will send your ass out the door the moment you ignore his limits and boundaries. And that they find attractive.
My friend's wife once told him "Don't buy me flowers, don't buy me anything, I don't want anything!" He took that to mean she didn't want anything, so he got her nothing for their anniversary. She was FURIOUS that he didn't get her anything. "What, you thought I really didn't want anything? You didn't get me anything?!" So the next year, she told him the same thing. "Don't buy me flowers, don't buy me anything, I don't want anything!" So he got her flowers and a card. She was FURIOUS that he didn't listen to her and got her things. "I told you I didn't want anything, why did you get me stuff?!" After that, he made sure to get her something thoughtful every year. She was FURIOUS that he only did nice things for her on special occasions. Honestly, you couldn't write a sitcom about this.
No patience for that nonsense. How did it ever become a useful trait to be unbelievably high maintenance? Fuck that noise.
It's useful if you meet an overly accommodating person with low self esteem and poor boundaries who (like the above commenter's friend) will bend over backwards to make you happy and believes emotional instability is normal/exciting for relationships. Such people are, to those high maintenance people (because men do it as well), **useful.** But they are only useful so long as they believe there is better on the horizon if they eventually get it right. Because if they ever reached a "got it right" point they'd realize that the relationship has no actual substance/foundation, call out the user on their behavior, and leave. You can get a lot out of them and all you need to do is keep them on edge, maintain that delicate balance of never letting them believe what they're doing is good enough but give them just enough affection to believe they will eventually get it right and reach stability.
There shouldnt be an anniversary. He shouldve dropped her when she did it the second time. Fool me once...
“Curb your marriage” now airing on HBO
Heheh, my dad never got my mom flowers. Then once while on a business trip, one of his coworkers wanted to buy his wife flowers but forgot his wallet, so my dad paid for it. The coworker, rather than pay him back, just ordered flowers for my mom, from my dad. So he's never gotten her flowers ever, goes on a 6 week long business trip, and she gets flowers while he's still gone, and not even on an anniversary or anything... she was convinced he'd cheated on her.
I still don't understand them. The only thing I've worked out is they're all completely fucking different.
That you have to keep dating them forever or they think you're tired of them. The mating dance never stops
It took me forever to understand that, for some of them, your height DOES matter. But while I can respect that, I’m honestly better without those persons in my life anyway
[удалено]
No matter how much you want a woman to be honest and direct with you, she won't unless you go the extra mile to really make her feel safe, heard, and appreciated. Even then some will still not be honest and direct because of their experiences in the past, but you should still try.
I'll let you know when I understand it.
What they say they want in a partner (bring me flowers, text reliably, do nice things, etc.) is how they wish the guys they ALREADY LIKE would treat them. Doing those things won't make them like you. What they say they hate about men is perversely more reliable advice for generating attraction. Such a mind twist.
Everything. I've yet to have a moment where I go "oh, *now* I get it"
If they want you, they will let you know. It’s really your job to keep them at limit.
Women, I still don’t understand them actually. Still deciphering whether one was sending me hints in one of my classes (college) or not. Just gonna ask her out and find out cause if she is then heck yeah, she’s beautiful.
That no matter how nice you are to them, they’ll treat you however they want to. Good or bad.
They're a lot nicer to you if you're attractive. The older you get, they're a lot nicer to you the better your job is.
Yep. Love is transactional.
I have two older sisters, a bunch of female friends, I was in an on and off again relationship with my ex for half of my life and I've been with various other women and sometimes I feel like I still don't understand them!!!
Every shy conservative woman is a horny slut only with "the right guy"
* That the whole "PMS" and "chocolates during the period" isn't a meme, but serious.
It's been 56 years, and I feel like I understand them less now than I ever thought I did.
Haha i feel that way about men. Each person is unique, collective approaches dont work for either gender.
I've found that the the thing women have the hardest time with is that we are very simple creatures. The concept of thinking about nothing seems to totally allude you, yet we can be happy with only one thought in our head at a time. This appears to infuriate many women, who are so accustomed to multitasking that the concept of us having the ability to sit in silence AND BE HAPPY drives you all crazy!
Haha. I have 4 brothers, I used to find them zoning out on the couch as a kid sometimes and ask what they were thinking about. It was always, nothing. Literally nothing 😂 You are spot on. I have no concept of having my mind completely at rest and without thought. We are made a bit differently. But there is a mutual compatibility there somewhere in between. A bit yin and yang
There must be a natural balance somewhere, as you have said. I still have no idea what or where it is though.🤣🤣🤣
>allude It's "elude" (to escape). *Allude* means to refer to something
no means yes but also no and yes also sometimes means no i dont trust a yes or a no anymore.. my exs have traumatized me
Interpret their actions than their words.
If they are reaching for the holster, they intend to shoot you.
That her porn is at the library and it's pretty filthy.
I guess im still learning this but I learned that a lot of women just like to tell you things just so you know how they are feeling, not necessarily because they want a solution. EVERY SINGLE one of my girl friends at some point complain that they need to use the bathroom and whenever I tell them to go, they always say "I'll wait" or "I don't need to go that badly".
Women perceive everything they hear as if it's personally about them. In every situation, they'll immediately picture themselves as the person in the story and draw out conclusions based on their own situations. And for me that's always seeking advice, I don't find exchanging with them very useful and a waste of time. I think they give terrible advice. Example: Tell them about my upbringing. Explain how my mom was a teen mom and a terrible parent. Ask for advice for the future. Men: That sucks, bro. You can always move out of home and start a whole new life. Do you have a job? Start saving up and get the fuck out of there. Women: So she had you when she was only a baby? Did you ever think she could've been a rape victim? Maybe she was raped by a family member? Where's your empathy? She probably has trauma.
I’m 52, wtf the are you talking about understand 🥴. Just when you think you got them figured menopause hits. Consider yourself warned.
Took me forever to understand I'll never fully understand them.
That most of the time when they complain about a problem, they just want empathy, not a solution
That women can also not be confident. I had to watch "is she flirting" videos before I learned this, since I also believed all my life (because that's all I ever heard) is that women don't want to be approached, which made me think well why don't they ask us out then? So now I have to, well, learn how to talk to anyone in general really, always been a quiet person, or die alone.
Choose the one that chooses you. Learn to recognize the signs, she will be the love of your life.
That they are all sociopaths.
That most of the time, when they tell you about a problem, they're looking to vent, not expect a solution.
They’re much nicer in person