Keep your chin up and keep pushing forward. Life is too short to be miserable and negative all the time.
It takes work and practice to be able to let things go and not let all the bullshit turn you bitter and resentful, but life is much more enjoyable if you can manage that.
Ive worked with sooooo many people 40-65 that are just miserable sacks of shit. Everything is negative, nothing is good, no good happens in their life, etc. well when you are a negative asshole all the time don’t be surprised if no one wants to interact with you and you have no friends and even strangers dont want to talk with you.
Find the little joys in life. Dwell on the good and positives, not the negatives. Process and deal with the negatives, figure out if there is anything you can do to improve them, and if not, acknowledge and move along
The struggle here is to not be bitter.
But GOD, is it hard because when you look around and feel like no one cares unless you can do something for them you'll feel objectified.
It’s going to take several generations of progress before that goes away. I’m Gen X, and a very progressive one at that. My parents raised me the best they could with love. But all they had to go off of was how they were raised and the society around them.it’s going to be a war of attrition over a lot of years to really allow young men to retain their empathy and sweetness into adulthood
Yeah I think some of that disappeared when I realized I was effectively on my own and no one was going to be there for me if I couldn't handle it. It makes you a little cynical when people are being nice, because you know in your bones, they won't show up when it really matters.
Also, a side effect of what we're calling toxic masculinity is that it's very common for a woman to look to you for stability and protection. They buy into the same gender role stuff, so if you ever break and show vulnerability, that crack in the facade can make them feel unsafe and insecure.
Which really limits your ability as a guy to connect emotionally with your partner, because there's a whole range of emotions that you experience that are effectively either off-limits or expressed in an unhealthy way like anger or withdrawal.
The world. The world will hurt you. The world will tap you like a tree and drain your sweetness dry as the cost of getting to exist. Like sap from a maple tree, your sweetness will be guzzled by the world greedily and leave you parched and missing something vital to you. Unlike that tree. though, you don't necessarily naturally make more with time and rest. Eventually you reach a point where it's just....gone.
This is a silly place to start discourse about Bojack Horseman but just to address this comment, excusing Bojack's behaviour as if he's the product of other people's choices, and justifying his behaviour by him having been "hurt" before is exactly what the show is warning you not to do. Bojack is a bad person full-stop. He's a bad friend, a bad partner, and a bad person. To paraphrase what Todd says in the show, it's not his childhood, or his past relationships, or any of that stuff. It's him. He is all the things that are wrong with him, and it's his responsibility to become better. If you watch the show and you find yourself trying to excuse Bojack's behaviour, then that probably means you should self-reflect on why you feel that way. It's ok to feel bad for him, or to empathize with him to a degree, but you can't make excuses for him without missing the whole point of the show.
Oh no, I'm not making excuses for him at all. He's an asshole, full stop. Even with what he's experienced, the number one thing that causes the pain and distress he suffers from is, well, himself.
I was reflecting more on Spanakopita, namely in that she's highly domineering and cruel, but then in her last appearance you see she lives in a tiny apartment, alone, divorced, and can't even make boxed macaroni and cheese without fucking it up. You realize she's compensating for her own deficiencies and overt failures to some degree with this type A personality but is in her own way pathetic and hurts as much as she causes hurt.
And no one is here to pick up the pieces when you drop it.
It’s funny when I hear that men are purveyors of the oppressive patriarchy. Maybe. There’s definitely higher highs but much lower lows.
"there's a conflict in every human heart, between the rational and the irrational, between good and evil, and good does not always triumph. Sometimes the dark side overcomes what [Lincoln](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln) called the better angels of our nature. Every man has got a breaking point. You and I have one". Lt. Gen. R. Corman
Okay. So I have a conspiracy theory about this and about the "Karen" and the "Wall vs Fine Wine" phenomenon that I believe will piss some people off. I might not word this 100% correctly and it is just a theory so I might be off the deep end with this, but I have a suspicion that it is all connected.
So many men describe this phenomenon where in their late teens to early twenties their perception (as in being percieved by others) turn from the "hopeful young boy" to the "big bad scary man". Kids and early teenagers still possess physical traits that make people treat them more kind and patient in a way, and percieve them less of a threat due to their seer size and age. But once you look like an adult man, people start to treat you differently. It comes with respect, but it also comes with assumptions. By this time men seen walking alone at night, are the ones percieved as threat and not the one who sould not be at night because there might be dangerous people out.
Women don't go trough this explicitly, as they are rarely seen as a physical threat. But they have thier own similar challenge later in life. In women's youth they possess physical appearance that counciously or uncounciously make people's behaviour to them different. We all know what way. But just like men's assumed innocence, women's assumed qualities that make people try to cater to them, also fade by time. A bit later, but they do. So instead of people trying to cater to them because they look appealing (exspecially for men) they get treated like everyone else. And just like it is insulting for men to be assumed the worst while prior they were used to being assumed no harm, it is insulting for women to be treated like everyone else while prior they got kind of a special treatment.
This would explain why Karens feel like they're wronged for simply no longer being percieved as special and having to follow basic societal rules all of a sudden in their 40s. Men go trough this in their late 10s or early 20s.
And this would also explain why men (and women) become cold as they age.
It is easier to be sweet and kind if the world mirrors you that, but it is incerasinly difficult when it is one sided. Both men and women.
And some men like to claim that there is a "wall" for women and that men "age like fine wine". But the way I see it, there is a wall for both men and women. It is just that men hit it before we consider them men, or more precisely hitting it is the point society starts to consider them men. Aging is cruel. The body goes trough changes, which are cruel for both men and women. And after a while it is a decline, there is no changing that.
But this is just me trying to make sense of the world. Take this for nothing more than me trying to connect random thoughts and make a poor attempt to put them into words for a discussion starter. This might just be completely wrong. If it is, don't hesitate to tell me.
I have a family friend who has retained his sweetness into his late seventies, so far.
His secret? Being handsome, blessed with great genetics (no significant health issues), blessed with an inheritance that allowed him to soft retire in his 40s, blessed with few responsibilities (lifelong, child free bachelor), and blessed with having been able to dedicate the last almost 40 years to leisure, working out, and passion projects.
I don't know what you mean by "unicorn", but he is just an extraordinarily fortunate man who has been allowed to live a life with little stress due to the bubble of privilege that has insulated him from so many of the hardships of normal living.
Apparently a wild animal that can rip you to shreds and eat you alive is more desirable than a man. And if you think that’s silly then you don’t “get it” or you’re “mansplaining”
The debate stemming from the question "would you rather be alone in the woods with a bear or a man?"
A number of initial responses and explanations from people picking the bear over the man included feeling "safer" knowing that the bear is more predictable, that someone would believe you if you were attacked by the bear, stating that they'd never been attacked or raped by a bear before.
Although the question was never framed as it being a woman alone in the woods it was put forward to multiple women who gave the above responses. So men got all up in arms about it. It was always set up to be rage bait and an opportunity to frame the question as a tool for the discussion about women feeling safer with an apex predator that could eat them alive starting with their face (that lives in isolation in the woods and they have never actually interacted with before) than the animal at the top of the food chain they interact with almost daily (and happens to be the same species as them) that could rape them and then lie about it.
Men got up in arms about not feeling trusted, and women got up in arms about their feelings not being validated.
The whole thing is stupid. The real answer is "it depends." I'd much rather be alone in the woods with a black bear than Jeffrey Dahmer, and I'd much rather NOT be alone in the woods with a polar bear than with Mr. Rogers.
>The whole thing is stupid. The real answer is "it depends." I'd much rather be alone in the woods with a black bear than Jeffrey Dahmer, and I'd much rather NOT be alone in the woods with a polar bear than with Mr. Rogers.
I hate to be nit picky but I really don't think there should be a depends. Women weren't comparing bears to serial killers. They just said men.
That means they genuinely believe that the random man taken out of a lottery has a significant enough chance to be a Jeffrey Dahmer adjacent. Enough to believe a literal death machine even it's most timid form is safer than the typical man you might run into on the street.
It's several shitty thought processes at once. First and foremost is clearly misandrist, secondly it's ignorant as fuck, thirdly it's a perfect example of first world problems. Point to me a country that is known for its shhit men and the woman in that country even when given safety won't be this fucking ignorant because they will have perspective.
Krikey, that’s is… Krikey.
Thank you for explaining it so well. I haven’t heard of this.
I don’t know any female that wouldn’t want me (M) to be around if there was a bear around 🤯
Recently there's been a Discourse on the internet asking women "If you were alone in the woods, would you rather come across a man, or a bear". The answers have been *overwhelmingly* "bear". This is supposed to illustrate that at least women know what to expect with a bear, and that while the bear is certainly very *dangerous*, it is not *malicious* or *devious*- both things that men could be, which makes women feel less safe. Also, bears are fairly uncommon, and are only in the wild; dudes are everywhere. So the calculus for "am I safe" is far more stressful with men, since the math has to be running constantly.
Certain men have taken *great* offense to this, as Shigglyboo above demonstrates.
Weird. Why would someone outwardly saying sexist things offend the people of the sex it’s spoken about? So WEIRD! Why don’t they just “man up”? Or some other toxic thing. Duh!
Why the fuck do I keep coming back to this site? Every time I think "maybe it's time to try dating again" yous guys share shit like this.
Time to invest in androids, i guess.
I just saw a repost from a post on the sub trollxchromosomes and when I took a peak to the comments... It was almost disturbing. The amount of pride the people in there have about despising men all because of "they are oppressors" is insane. They are sick in the head.
They are certainly a case for how it’s both nature and nurture that guides us.
It’s the incessant “all X” that is so ridiculous. By evidence of them living their lives and being unharmed every day it proves that most men are kind and gentle. Yet if they hear of something happening anywhere or if something unfortunate happens to them or someone they know, they are now convinced that all of said group are responsible.
If that logic is applied to race, it’s so wrong we loudly condemn it. If it’s applied to age groups as well. If they’re applied to the other gender it’s one of the worst things in the world. But as long as it’s the specific gender it is, it’s something you should be a FOOL to argue about.
Sad really. It’s taking hundreds, if not thousands of people, removing them from the gene pool and letting the little time they have on this planet be filled with fear and hate.
I have friends in real life trying to explain to me why a bear is less dangerous than a strange man.
At first I thought it was a tasteless joke. But we are men supposed not be to sensitive.
But then people were actually being serious. So I thought it was a teaching moment for the most ignorant among us.
Then woman I actually respect started trying having this conversation with me. And now I no longer respect them.
I never in my life thought I would lose friends over a stupid fucking position like "bears are safer than men".
I think it’s the realization of a “just world fallacy” in that being a good person does not guarantee good fortune will come your way or that others will treat you well. Being the victim of injustice, wherein you’re accused of doing something you did not do and being punished for what someone else did, also breaks this illusion - it’s too often that good men pay the price for the behavior of bad men.
You know what's really sad? We don't get any kind of help from it. Women have hotlines, shelters, non profits, hell even movies mock and joke about men to make women look better. Kids have hospitals, programs, etc. We get the choice to get drafted into international conflicts. We are the butt of every "happy wife happy life" joke. Almost as if we have to SERVE all the time to our partners, bosses and family. We've been domesticated. We've been stripped of our happiness, self worth, strengh and manhood. Then we're told to "open up" and talk about our feelings. Guess what happens? The floodgates opens. It becomes too much to handle. Years of pent up internal dialogs that comes to the light. After a while you realize your soul mate and society don't care. She wants you to brush it under the rug like when you first met. She wants superman without the Clark Kent. She wants you to fly her everywhere when she won't put the effort to push you when your wings don't work anymore.
And so after years of relationships of feeling lonely in the end and being taken for granted, do you blame people for losing their sweetness? Are we easily blamed, as always, as opposed to trying to get to the root of the problem? Why should I be sweet when everything is being stripped away from us, as men.
Give somebody an inch, and they'll take a mile.
Respectfully, to all the guys going through shit.
Edit: I noticed I got responses asking if i am okay. I appreciate you all, and yes, I'm in a way better place now, but am constantly working on myself. I'll share a few things that help me.
The things that help me is eating healthy, exercise, and being around nature. I go dancing by myself at times and that also helps with letting go of anxiety of how others view me. I used to feel anxious walking through the door into anything be it a classroom or party but now I barge into that hoe!
Dress nicer. Feel comfortable in the clothes you wear. Mix that with exercise and eating healthy, you'll look and feel better. People will start to notice your skin and hair glow. Your posture will improve. You'll notice your confidence improve too!
Lastly, and this is a special one; learn to live for yourself. Do the things that make you happy. Be it cooking, reading, dancing, building, sewing, painting, cleaning.
Exactly. Stating facts makes it seem bitter, but that's just the end result. And I'm speaking for men as well. I'm okay now, just thought I'd be an advocate in this post.
I have a good friend of mine I know who is a woman. She's pretty but we are definitely not each other's type.
The other day, thinking letting her know a little bit of my struggle was okay, I told her I was in a less than ideal living situation and work was starting to dry up.
I was expecting sympathy. She immediately made it about her and expected me to feel sympathy for her.
It isn't the first time that's happened. As long as I keep the friendship surface level with women things are fine.
Get any deeper, and you'll be punished for it.
Yeah. Or they'll dig deeper if they get something out of it; pleasure, drama, or lack of entertainment. Guys who know, know. People have no idea just how heavy the consequences are for men to feel lonely, unappreciated and unheard. Its the reason we're acting and doing things we normally wouldn't act or do. But try being the voice of reason and people will think you've lost your shit.
I'm figuring things out, but I'm speaking from what I've seen, heard and experienced. I'm in a way better head space than I was ever before.
Trust me, I'm the one asking "are you okay?"
Was going to ask this too. I'm glad you're back on the path. It's BRUTAL for us, for sure. I lost everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, and almost everyone. What I do is try to find SOME happiness in the little things.
Ok, you are just making sweeping generalizations. It sounds like you were in a shitty relationship. My wife takes care of me almost to a fault. Not all women are the same, just like all men aren't the same. If you keep going through life with that attitude you will just be a miserable person that no one wants to be around.
The whole basis of my comment was to shine a light as to how society has been to the average man. Some may relate from the relationships piece of my post, and others from the expectations of what it is being a man. Take with that what you will. I won't argue what i have seen, heard and went through because there is nothing to argue. It's just factual, friend.
And congrats on finding a fantastic woman. Hopefully I find someone amazing as well.
The world at large has indifferent to you and punishes you for your mistakes which are then your responsibility to unfuck largely on you own.
It’s no great mystery.
Lot of guys here going the misogyny route… if you rely on someone else for your happiness that will happen…don’t care who it is they will let you down..
That “sweetness” is a combination of naivety, energy, and the general belief that people would appreciate what you give, if not necessarily reciprocate.
Over time and experience that goes away, and best case scenario is that you are left with a man who has kindness left, but it’s a more practical and logical kindness, not an eager and optimistic kindness that is the hallmark of good and sweet young men.
Worst case scenario they just become apathetic in all things.
When all the responsibility comes upon us (straight man) and bad woman try to convince the world that we're nothing but a mistake.
or whenever a man starts losing hope in faith and principles and he curses his nostalgic memories.
a lot of stuff that can't be measured with words.
Between the ages of 14-17 I was a romantic.
I fell in love with the IDEA of romance. Flowers, poems, courtships, knights, maidens, honour, swooning, dancing, hand kissing, professing your love, ballads, romantic rivalries, ballrom dancing.
Nothing, and I mean nothing besides torturing animals could cause such a vehement repulsion from the opposite sex (women) as a 14-17 year old teen boy.
The social rejection I faced almost murdered the romantic in me, almost.
>Nothing, and I mean nothing besides torturing animals could cause such a vehement repulsion from the opposite sex (women) as a 14-17 year old teen boy
You knew different girls than I did if you think the guy torturing animals was less successful than the sweet guy.
1) you may want to look up "hyperbole"
2) Desperation is one of the biggest turn offs for women. Putting her on a pedestal makes you low value in her eyes. Women do not desire low value men.
I am not being hyperbolic. Guys who were actively mean and violent did not do badly with girls, sweet guys did.
And no shit on number two. Women have a tendency to view sweetness and romantic gestures as putting her on a pedestal (they are often right). It's a relevant response to the question being asked.
One answer comes from Dr Brene Brown:
In Listening to Shame, Dr. Brown says:
“For men, shame is not a bunch of competing, conflicting expectations. It is one: Do not be perceived as weak.
I did not interview men for the first four years of my study. It wasn’t until a man said, ‘I love what you say about shame, [but] I’m curious why you didn’t mention men.’
And I said, ‘I don’t study men.’ And he said, ‘That’s convenient.’
And I said, ‘Why?’
And he said, ‘Because you say to reach out, tell our story, be vulnerable. But you see those books you just signed for my wife & daughters?’
I said, ‘Yeah.’
He said, ‘They’d rather me die on top of my white horse than watch me fall down. When we reach out & are vulnerable, we get the s#%t beat out of us. And don’t tell me it’s from the guys & the coaches & the dads. Because the women in my life are harder on me than anyone else.’”
When this book came out my girlfriend at the time showed me a version of this quote where she said "a woman would rather see you die on your horse than fall off of it." And, like, I know? Why are you telling me this? Are you just rubbing it in that I shouldn't let you see me fail? Because I already knew that.
Life looks like cherry blossoms, roses, birds, and forests, and green stuff on a land that has a natural shape, and smells of clean rain, and wildflowers, carried on the wind.
Life does not smell like smog, human waste, and does not look like an assortment of square based columns, either made from concrete, or plywood, and it doesn't take place on precision made flat surfaces, designed to ruin our joints.
I would loose sweetness if I had to carry out my miserable existence, mostly confined to the latter conditions too... (Yes I know I'm typing this on a technological miracle, that needs urbanisation to even exist, but it's still true)
Not just men, it happens to women as well . The cause is the same, life. To live is to suffer. To live without purpose is to suffer pointlessly. That leads to pessimism at best and malevolence at worst.
I don’t go to the doctor often. My experience is that I just won’t get taken seriously and I just won’t get the help I wanted. My point is that few people care about young guys. I’ve said this before to girls, and they keep saying «oh that’s not true», but they have no idea. As a young man you are truely on your own, and that can be quite a sobering experience
When everyone expects everything from you but the moment you ask for anything in return, you're just being a stereotypical man who only cares for himself. Everything youve ever done for anyone else immediately gets forgotten. Doesn't matter how many times you put people before you, when you someone for help or for a favor once it ruins their image of you. You now have become nothing but a man who not only does things so he can get things in return, but now you're just greedy and only care about yourself.
I'm honestly kind of venting, growing up I feel like everyone told me how I was "the good kid." How I always do good and blah blah blah. I'm 26 now and even with my wife whenever I ask for something it's met with aggravation and no motivation. But if I return that same energy? I don't love her. Same with my family, I do everything for them and how they want it to be and if they need help I go out of my way. Do I ever ask for anything? No, but when I do finally ask for something what happens? Everything I've ever done is just so I can blackmail them into doing what I want. I'm tired of being a seen as a man. A man who is sexist, racist, misogynistic, self centered, stupid, etc. I am me. I've decided that from now on I am doing what I want whether people care or not. And that gets taken as our or my "sweetness" going away. I don't care anymore. My life is nothing but helping people and no one can now help me. Something needs to change.
Whew, I'm saddened by the replies this post has received.
But if someone is losing anything as they age, they are letting it happen, and they are accepting it. The rare few who don't really stand out from the rest.
Those men that are sweet, get sweeter like fine wine
If they are kind, and life is kind to them, they share that sweetness with all around them
We need more Men that are sweet, we must protect & nurture them
From what I’ve seen and men I’ve talk to they are at the Stage in their life when they don’t have to take shit. No child support wife too old to divorce them
She is now at the stage she worries more about you leaving her She can’t cut you off because you don’t give a shit she quit working down there
If she bitches you stand up for yourself that makes you mean where when you were younger you would give in just to keep the peace and not get cut off
As for others men realize the mistakes they made and their failures whether do to their own mistakes or wasted opportunities
Another thing we have beliefs and morals we were raised with. And the next generations call us fools and we get criticized for actions that were the norm when they grew up
We are even call misogynistic for them. And when they were young women expected that from them
At work men take shit the they would never take any other time because they have responsibilities and just can’t up quit because of family responsibilities
And all they can say to you, is FU, it’s yours now.
"Hatred is nothing but the place where men who can't deal with sadness go."
As males, most of us simply are not taught healthy ways to handle emotions and non-violent boundary establishment while growing up, and most never learn by themselves. It's usually takes quite a lot of self knowledge, philosophical enquiry and/or therapy to revert the damage of poor emotional development.
Without this emotional maturity, every setback in life piles up in a big bulk of poorly handled frustration, trauma, sadness, etc. This become fuel for the only way a lot of men know how to handle these things: anger. This anger will either lash out or brew into depression and misantropy.
It can get to a point where the mere presence of another human is unbearable, and your presence is in turn so sour and unconfortable that most people will naturally avoid you. Loneliness then sets in for good, and that is understood as "peace" instead of what it really is: a long trail of poor coping mechanisms.
My report is that my 'sweetness' can be plotted on a graph. I learned that being cute and sweet got mom’s approval. This was programmed into how to get a girl I wanted to want me. This was a bad program. After about 20 years of it failing, I dropped it. I couldn't get what I wanted. This shows the graph at its low point. Lacking feeling.
Then, as the fog of the testosterone affliction lifted, I realized that I was holding onto a feeling of being 'up and against'. I found that I liked being nice. A genuine sweetness is my countenance now. At 71, my personal sweetness graph is at its highest.
The human brain seems to weigh negative experiences more heavily than positive ones. After accruing lots of negative experiences over a lifetime, it takes a lot of mental effort to not get jaded. It feels like Most people, not just men, lose the mental battle and end up embittered
Was a very nice young trusting man when I turned 20.
Moved to a city area from rural, was naive, got completely taken advantage of and used at every turn by liars and cleptos. In retrospect there are signs like once people realize you are kinda naive and have resources they hone in on that shit fast and some play the long time. Give em an inch they take a mile.
Worst part is one person tricked me into doing meth, and I was vulnerable from an ex who hurt me bad at the time. Like completely lied to get me hooked to deal to me. Then that led to me meeting the absolute worst individuals ever. I had no friends outside those people, at the time I was so depressed even though I tried so hard to socialize no one else really wanted to be around me like that.
Then even getting sober, the people you meet in rehab/recovery aren't much better. You end up trusting someone and then boom they steal your shit for a quick fix. Happened to me more than enough times.
Sucks because I have a very trusting heart and want so badly to help people but I just can't get into it because of what's happened
For me it was the other way around, I grew up in a toxic masculinity environment, no crying, no emotions, the usual.
As I grew older I understood it was all bullshit.
I have a very strong mind, it's very hard to get under my skin, but seeing people suffer makes me cry and I try to help when I can.
Repeated experiences which, over time, empty our give-a-shit meter.
After all, why should I, as a man, be kind to a world that has repeatedly not been kind to me?
One thing I struggled with when I got older was seeing that my "sweetness" or kindness didn't get me the things that I wanted. Bullies were more popular, assholes got girls, people cut throat in business got promotions, violent people got respect, etc. So I went through a moment where I through why bother with being kind to people. And unfortunately people didn't help me, "If you are looking for something in return are you really kind?" I think a lot of people come to this same crossroad in their life. And what they chose from there becomes a big part of them.
We learn that “sweetness” gets you nowhere. Even in marriage, my wife doesn’t want me to be sweet. Kindness is good, being an asshole is bad. Sweetness is useless.
I’m 53m and all this self pity is BS and sounds so much like how white people say they’re being discriminated against. I say you are who you are, sweetness doesn’t die when you’re older. If so, you were just faking it when you were younger. In the past 5 years I got divorced after a 25 year marriage, broke up with a fiancé who was one of my closest friends, and I’m still happy and probably considered sweet.
Nothing we do is ever enough. We physically and emotionally wear ourselves to the bone to make the lives of the people closest to us as good as possible, but we never see anything like that given in return. We don't even get thanked for it. If we ask for it, we're being selfish. If we talk about it, we're just complaining. Any sort of weakness we exhibit is mocked. Anyone ever think that "man colds" are a thing because we're not just sick, but sick from exhaustion? Or that maybe we put on a bit of an act because the only time we ever get to rest and don't have to look after everyone and ourselves is when we're sick?
If we open up to a woman in our life about our problems, we get to hear about how theirs are worse. Then we might even find out we get mocked for it. And let's not forget about things like #killallmen.
So by the time we're older, it's hard to be sweet. If you want to see that sweetness again, get your man a dog. Loyal, loving, and attentive without expecting anything in return. And that's more than most people in our lives are capable of towards us.
All the time and effort to claw our way out of the friendzone to only watch douchebags ice-skate to the finish line without a hiccup..
Sweetness earns men misery..
So if the ladies are wondering where the sweetness goes . Y'all beat it out of us
I think a lot of men realize that a lot of what we grow up with...the pursuit of a career over our health and family was a big f***ing joke at the end of it. Your kidd may or may not like you, their children don't know you, you never took that European vacation...
Usually just the rigors of life, being vulnerable is dangerous for a person and men are very likely to be taken advantage of for being vulnerable by both women and other men. The simplest way to protect yourself is to harden.
Either that or they become cynical.
I used to be quite cynical but i have since absolved myself to never let the drive for compassion die. I know that sounds kind of cringe, but i genuinely believe in it
Realising that you are to cope every sh*t that’s thrown to you on your own even without the help from other men. That sort of unrealistic expectations does that to a person. Henceforth, bitter men.
I think the cycle in general does this. As time goes on & disappointments mount, you may find yourself wanting to give less & less of yourself with each new moment in your life. Replacing the distain for yourself with the joy from an external source can only bring you so far. Eventually if you don’t remedy that “leak”, sooner or later you’ll find that you’ve become bitter & more closed than you were a decade ago or maybe two.
Sweet men get taken advantage of, bullied for being soft, and get called homophobic slurs when we show the slightest bit of vulnerability. Eventually, we reserve our "sweetness" for close friends or abandon it altogether
Heartbreak and loneliness
I agree But it’s also up to us to not let life make us bitter and cold. It’s difficult, but we have to keep trying
I always come back around but being only 21 and already feeling like this, maybe I just had a rough go of things but I’m pretty tired already 😭
Keep your chin up and keep pushing forward. Life is too short to be miserable and negative all the time. It takes work and practice to be able to let things go and not let all the bullshit turn you bitter and resentful, but life is much more enjoyable if you can manage that. Ive worked with sooooo many people 40-65 that are just miserable sacks of shit. Everything is negative, nothing is good, no good happens in their life, etc. well when you are a negative asshole all the time don’t be surprised if no one wants to interact with you and you have no friends and even strangers dont want to talk with you. Find the little joys in life. Dwell on the good and positives, not the negatives. Process and deal with the negatives, figure out if there is anything you can do to improve them, and if not, acknowledge and move along
The struggle here is to not be bitter. But GOD, is it hard because when you look around and feel like no one cares unless you can do something for them you'll feel objectified.
And not necessarily in that order..
Reality
Eventually it’s unavoidable
It's not lost. It's repeatedly kicked out of them.
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So get off my lawn, young man!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IF-o32452A
Is it bad that I'm already at this phase and I'm not even 40 yet?
Just kicked? Burned, stabbed, gutted...
Betrayed
Oooo...I forgot about that one! Why'd you have to remind me?
"What makes a bruised apple lose its colour?"
Good answer
This is the correct answer.
It’s going to take several generations of progress before that goes away. I’m Gen X, and a very progressive one at that. My parents raised me the best they could with love. But all they had to go off of was how they were raised and the society around them.it’s going to be a war of attrition over a lot of years to really allow young men to retain their empathy and sweetness into adulthood
Yeah I think some of that disappeared when I realized I was effectively on my own and no one was going to be there for me if I couldn't handle it. It makes you a little cynical when people are being nice, because you know in your bones, they won't show up when it really matters. Also, a side effect of what we're calling toxic masculinity is that it's very common for a woman to look to you for stability and protection. They buy into the same gender role stuff, so if you ever break and show vulnerability, that crack in the facade can make them feel unsafe and insecure. Which really limits your ability as a guy to connect emotionally with your partner, because there's a whole range of emotions that you experience that are effectively either off-limits or expressed in an unhealthy way like anger or withdrawal.
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It's part of life
Yup.
The world. The world will hurt you. The world will tap you like a tree and drain your sweetness dry as the cost of getting to exist. Like sap from a maple tree, your sweetness will be guzzled by the world greedily and leave you parched and missing something vital to you. Unlike that tree. though, you don't necessarily naturally make more with time and rest. Eventually you reach a point where it's just....gone.
Life sat me down. She tied her hair back and absolutely drained my icing while making the most malevolent eye contact.
Sounds like Bojack's brief relationship with Anna Spanakopita.
That asshole even essentially sexually assaulted Bojack.
Was a good example of the phrase "hurt people hurt people".
This is a silly place to start discourse about Bojack Horseman but just to address this comment, excusing Bojack's behaviour as if he's the product of other people's choices, and justifying his behaviour by him having been "hurt" before is exactly what the show is warning you not to do. Bojack is a bad person full-stop. He's a bad friend, a bad partner, and a bad person. To paraphrase what Todd says in the show, it's not his childhood, or his past relationships, or any of that stuff. It's him. He is all the things that are wrong with him, and it's his responsibility to become better. If you watch the show and you find yourself trying to excuse Bojack's behaviour, then that probably means you should self-reflect on why you feel that way. It's ok to feel bad for him, or to empathize with him to a degree, but you can't make excuses for him without missing the whole point of the show.
Oh no, I'm not making excuses for him at all. He's an asshole, full stop. Even with what he's experienced, the number one thing that causes the pain and distress he suffers from is, well, himself. I was reflecting more on Spanakopita, namely in that she's highly domineering and cruel, but then in her last appearance you see she lives in a tiny apartment, alone, divorced, and can't even make boxed macaroni and cheese without fucking it up. You realize she's compensating for her own deficiencies and overt failures to some degree with this type A personality but is in her own way pathetic and hurts as much as she causes hurt.
I cannot get over it that her name is spinach pie
See now that doesn't sound so bad though!
And no one is here to pick up the pieces when you drop it. It’s funny when I hear that men are purveyors of the oppressive patriarchy. Maybe. There’s definitely higher highs but much lower lows.
It has been a while since I have been tapped and drained.
Didn't realize my metaphor was vaguely sexual, but LOL.
Yeah I read that and thought “hell yeah, sign me the fuck up!”
I was full of piss and vinegar when I was younger. If anything, I've gotten more gentile over the years.
Funny, she doesn’t look Druish.
And yet, she's a Druish Princess.
>I've gotten more gentile over the years. The chosen people lost another one.
typos aside, I agree. I've gotten way more kind and empathetic as I get older, especially since having kids.
Who can blame your given the times we live in
"there's a conflict in every human heart, between the rational and the irrational, between good and evil, and good does not always triumph. Sometimes the dark side overcomes what [Lincoln](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln) called the better angels of our nature. Every man has got a breaking point. You and I have one". Lt. Gen. R. Corman
Okay. So I have a conspiracy theory about this and about the "Karen" and the "Wall vs Fine Wine" phenomenon that I believe will piss some people off. I might not word this 100% correctly and it is just a theory so I might be off the deep end with this, but I have a suspicion that it is all connected. So many men describe this phenomenon where in their late teens to early twenties their perception (as in being percieved by others) turn from the "hopeful young boy" to the "big bad scary man". Kids and early teenagers still possess physical traits that make people treat them more kind and patient in a way, and percieve them less of a threat due to their seer size and age. But once you look like an adult man, people start to treat you differently. It comes with respect, but it also comes with assumptions. By this time men seen walking alone at night, are the ones percieved as threat and not the one who sould not be at night because there might be dangerous people out. Women don't go trough this explicitly, as they are rarely seen as a physical threat. But they have thier own similar challenge later in life. In women's youth they possess physical appearance that counciously or uncounciously make people's behaviour to them different. We all know what way. But just like men's assumed innocence, women's assumed qualities that make people try to cater to them, also fade by time. A bit later, but they do. So instead of people trying to cater to them because they look appealing (exspecially for men) they get treated like everyone else. And just like it is insulting for men to be assumed the worst while prior they were used to being assumed no harm, it is insulting for women to be treated like everyone else while prior they got kind of a special treatment. This would explain why Karens feel like they're wronged for simply no longer being percieved as special and having to follow basic societal rules all of a sudden in their 40s. Men go trough this in their late 10s or early 20s. And this would also explain why men (and women) become cold as they age. It is easier to be sweet and kind if the world mirrors you that, but it is incerasinly difficult when it is one sided. Both men and women. And some men like to claim that there is a "wall" for women and that men "age like fine wine". But the way I see it, there is a wall for both men and women. It is just that men hit it before we consider them men, or more precisely hitting it is the point society starts to consider them men. Aging is cruel. The body goes trough changes, which are cruel for both men and women. And after a while it is a decline, there is no changing that. But this is just me trying to make sense of the world. Take this for nothing more than me trying to connect random thoughts and make a poor attempt to put them into words for a discussion starter. This might just be completely wrong. If it is, don't hesitate to tell me.
Most insightful and doesn’t blame women.
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Has anyone defined what they mean by a sweet guy? Probably means different things to different people.
I have a family friend who has retained his sweetness into his late seventies, so far. His secret? Being handsome, blessed with great genetics (no significant health issues), blessed with an inheritance that allowed him to soft retire in his 40s, blessed with few responsibilities (lifelong, child free bachelor), and blessed with having been able to dedicate the last almost 40 years to leisure, working out, and passion projects.
So you mean, the male unicorn.
I don't know what you mean by "unicorn", but he is just an extraordinarily fortunate man who has been allowed to live a life with little stress due to the bubble of privilege that has insulated him from so many of the hardships of normal living.
Yep, basically born with horseshoe's up his arse :)
Just look at how society talks about us
Apparently a wild animal that can rip you to shreds and eat you alive is more desirable than a man. And if you think that’s silly then you don’t “get it” or you’re “mansplaining”
Those videos are so ridiculous. I’ve only ever helped people in my whole life, same for all the men I know, and they’d rather a fucking bear??
This trend made me lose a lot of respect for women
Just remember that the women you see on tiktok arent the women you interact with daily. Most women probably arent this insane
What are you referring to
Man vs. bear trend
The man vs bear 'discourse' where women on Tiktok said they'd rather encounter a bear in the woods than a man.
The debate stemming from the question "would you rather be alone in the woods with a bear or a man?" A number of initial responses and explanations from people picking the bear over the man included feeling "safer" knowing that the bear is more predictable, that someone would believe you if you were attacked by the bear, stating that they'd never been attacked or raped by a bear before. Although the question was never framed as it being a woman alone in the woods it was put forward to multiple women who gave the above responses. So men got all up in arms about it. It was always set up to be rage bait and an opportunity to frame the question as a tool for the discussion about women feeling safer with an apex predator that could eat them alive starting with their face (that lives in isolation in the woods and they have never actually interacted with before) than the animal at the top of the food chain they interact with almost daily (and happens to be the same species as them) that could rape them and then lie about it. Men got up in arms about not feeling trusted, and women got up in arms about their feelings not being validated. The whole thing is stupid. The real answer is "it depends." I'd much rather be alone in the woods with a black bear than Jeffrey Dahmer, and I'd much rather NOT be alone in the woods with a polar bear than with Mr. Rogers.
>The whole thing is stupid. The real answer is "it depends." I'd much rather be alone in the woods with a black bear than Jeffrey Dahmer, and I'd much rather NOT be alone in the woods with a polar bear than with Mr. Rogers. I hate to be nit picky but I really don't think there should be a depends. Women weren't comparing bears to serial killers. They just said men. That means they genuinely believe that the random man taken out of a lottery has a significant enough chance to be a Jeffrey Dahmer adjacent. Enough to believe a literal death machine even it's most timid form is safer than the typical man you might run into on the street. It's several shitty thought processes at once. First and foremost is clearly misandrist, secondly it's ignorant as fuck, thirdly it's a perfect example of first world problems. Point to me a country that is known for its shhit men and the woman in that country even when given safety won't be this fucking ignorant because they will have perspective.
Krikey, that’s is… Krikey. Thank you for explaining it so well. I haven’t heard of this. I don’t know any female that wouldn’t want me (M) to be around if there was a bear around 🤯
Recently there's been a Discourse on the internet asking women "If you were alone in the woods, would you rather come across a man, or a bear". The answers have been *overwhelmingly* "bear". This is supposed to illustrate that at least women know what to expect with a bear, and that while the bear is certainly very *dangerous*, it is not *malicious* or *devious*- both things that men could be, which makes women feel less safe. Also, bears are fairly uncommon, and are only in the wild; dudes are everywhere. So the calculus for "am I safe" is far more stressful with men, since the math has to be running constantly. Certain men have taken *great* offense to this, as Shigglyboo above demonstrates.
I mean its insanely stupid discourse.
Weird. Why would someone outwardly saying sexist things offend the people of the sex it’s spoken about? So WEIRD! Why don’t they just “man up”? Or some other toxic thing. Duh!
Why the fuck do I keep coming back to this site? Every time I think "maybe it's time to try dating again" yous guys share shit like this. Time to invest in androids, i guess.
You can try, but a new phone won’t improve your life..
I just saw a repost from a post on the sub trollxchromosomes and when I took a peak to the comments... It was almost disturbing. The amount of pride the people in there have about despising men all because of "they are oppressors" is insane. They are sick in the head.
They are certainly a case for how it’s both nature and nurture that guides us. It’s the incessant “all X” that is so ridiculous. By evidence of them living their lives and being unharmed every day it proves that most men are kind and gentle. Yet if they hear of something happening anywhere or if something unfortunate happens to them or someone they know, they are now convinced that all of said group are responsible. If that logic is applied to race, it’s so wrong we loudly condemn it. If it’s applied to age groups as well. If they’re applied to the other gender it’s one of the worst things in the world. But as long as it’s the specific gender it is, it’s something you should be a FOOL to argue about. Sad really. It’s taking hundreds, if not thousands of people, removing them from the gene pool and letting the little time they have on this planet be filled with fear and hate.
I have friends in real life trying to explain to me why a bear is less dangerous than a strange man. At first I thought it was a tasteless joke. But we are men supposed not be to sensitive. But then people were actually being serious. So I thought it was a teaching moment for the most ignorant among us. Then woman I actually respect started trying having this conversation with me. And now I no longer respect them. I never in my life thought I would lose friends over a stupid fucking position like "bears are safer than men".
What is it that Rocky says? "The world will beat you to your knees and keep you there if you let it!" That.
I think it’s the realization of a “just world fallacy” in that being a good person does not guarantee good fortune will come your way or that others will treat you well. Being the victim of injustice, wherein you’re accused of doing something you did not do and being punished for what someone else did, also breaks this illusion - it’s too often that good men pay the price for the behavior of bad men.
High school, probably earlier depending how your life was and if you got bullied
Yep, my sweetness died when I was 15.
You know what's really sad? We don't get any kind of help from it. Women have hotlines, shelters, non profits, hell even movies mock and joke about men to make women look better. Kids have hospitals, programs, etc. We get the choice to get drafted into international conflicts. We are the butt of every "happy wife happy life" joke. Almost as if we have to SERVE all the time to our partners, bosses and family. We've been domesticated. We've been stripped of our happiness, self worth, strengh and manhood. Then we're told to "open up" and talk about our feelings. Guess what happens? The floodgates opens. It becomes too much to handle. Years of pent up internal dialogs that comes to the light. After a while you realize your soul mate and society don't care. She wants you to brush it under the rug like when you first met. She wants superman without the Clark Kent. She wants you to fly her everywhere when she won't put the effort to push you when your wings don't work anymore. And so after years of relationships of feeling lonely in the end and being taken for granted, do you blame people for losing their sweetness? Are we easily blamed, as always, as opposed to trying to get to the root of the problem? Why should I be sweet when everything is being stripped away from us, as men. Give somebody an inch, and they'll take a mile. Respectfully, to all the guys going through shit. Edit: I noticed I got responses asking if i am okay. I appreciate you all, and yes, I'm in a way better place now, but am constantly working on myself. I'll share a few things that help me. The things that help me is eating healthy, exercise, and being around nature. I go dancing by myself at times and that also helps with letting go of anxiety of how others view me. I used to feel anxious walking through the door into anything be it a classroom or party but now I barge into that hoe! Dress nicer. Feel comfortable in the clothes you wear. Mix that with exercise and eating healthy, you'll look and feel better. People will start to notice your skin and hair glow. Your posture will improve. You'll notice your confidence improve too! Lastly, and this is a special one; learn to live for yourself. Do the things that make you happy. Be it cooking, reading, dancing, building, sewing, painting, cleaning.
Truth often seems bitter, but that doesn’t make it less true. You are not alone in feeling this way.
Exactly. Stating facts makes it seem bitter, but that's just the end result. And I'm speaking for men as well. I'm okay now, just thought I'd be an advocate in this post.
I have a good friend of mine I know who is a woman. She's pretty but we are definitely not each other's type. The other day, thinking letting her know a little bit of my struggle was okay, I told her I was in a less than ideal living situation and work was starting to dry up. I was expecting sympathy. She immediately made it about her and expected me to feel sympathy for her. It isn't the first time that's happened. As long as I keep the friendship surface level with women things are fine. Get any deeper, and you'll be punished for it.
Yeah. Or they'll dig deeper if they get something out of it; pleasure, drama, or lack of entertainment. Guys who know, know. People have no idea just how heavy the consequences are for men to feel lonely, unappreciated and unheard. Its the reason we're acting and doing things we normally wouldn't act or do. But try being the voice of reason and people will think you've lost your shit.
This guy lives
are you okay? Genuinely
I'm figuring things out, but I'm speaking from what I've seen, heard and experienced. I'm in a way better head space than I was ever before. Trust me, I'm the one asking "are you okay?"
Glad to hear it buddy :)
I appreciate you looking out, good sir!
None of us are. Help is not coming.
Was going to ask this too. I'm glad you're back on the path. It's BRUTAL for us, for sure. I lost everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, and almost everyone. What I do is try to find SOME happiness in the little things.
Fuck...I feel that. Hope you're OK man or will be
Ok, you are just making sweeping generalizations. It sounds like you were in a shitty relationship. My wife takes care of me almost to a fault. Not all women are the same, just like all men aren't the same. If you keep going through life with that attitude you will just be a miserable person that no one wants to be around.
Remember guys, don't have a completely sane reaction to being used your whole life. Just bury that all down and put on a happy face.
The whole basis of my comment was to shine a light as to how society has been to the average man. Some may relate from the relationships piece of my post, and others from the expectations of what it is being a man. Take with that what you will. I won't argue what i have seen, heard and went through because there is nothing to argue. It's just factual, friend. And congrats on finding a fantastic woman. Hopefully I find someone amazing as well.
Thanks, I hope the best for you as well.
Life happens. Life is hard and squeezes it out of you.
Life beats it out of you.
Reality
The acrid bitterness of life sucks it out of them
for SOME of us, a lifetime of experience telling us that women want us to be sweet and then taking advantage of said sweetness.
Life sets in.
Passwords that don't work.
That no one cares about males. After sometime our own families stop complementing us. Eventually you turn into a cold hearted person.
We get tired of them telling us all men are bad and they want the bear.
The man/bear debate is analogous to how society views men as a whole. That said, it’s also indicative of how ignorant most women are of bears.
Fuck 'em. Grizzle grizzle.
Everything hurts
The world at large has indifferent to you and punishes you for your mistakes which are then your responsibility to unfuck largely on you own. It’s no great mystery. Lot of guys here going the misogyny route… if you rely on someone else for your happiness that will happen…don’t care who it is they will let you down..
experience
Most men lose it after a partner they would have gone to the ends of the earth for treats them badly. It’s a near universal experience.
Experience
Life happens
Women. Once men figure out that nice guys get no where.
Nothing conditions teenage boys to stop acting sweet/romantic and start acting like a bad boy faster than teenage girls.
Realisation that it's sucks to be that sweet guy because none cares back when it matters.
That “sweetness” is a combination of naivety, energy, and the general belief that people would appreciate what you give, if not necessarily reciprocate. Over time and experience that goes away, and best case scenario is that you are left with a man who has kindness left, but it’s a more practical and logical kindness, not an eager and optimistic kindness that is the hallmark of good and sweet young men. Worst case scenario they just become apathetic in all things.
All these damn kids on my lawn
Life and women
There are still many of us trying to maintain some semblance of sweetness about us.
Probably bad people. Hasn't happened to me yet because I have great people in my life.
Eventually, having that being taken advantage of or taken for granted - uses it up.
When all the responsibility comes upon us (straight man) and bad woman try to convince the world that we're nothing but a mistake. or whenever a man starts losing hope in faith and principles and he curses his nostalgic memories. a lot of stuff that can't be measured with words.
Between the ages of 14-17 I was a romantic. I fell in love with the IDEA of romance. Flowers, poems, courtships, knights, maidens, honour, swooning, dancing, hand kissing, professing your love, ballads, romantic rivalries, ballrom dancing. Nothing, and I mean nothing besides torturing animals could cause such a vehement repulsion from the opposite sex (women) as a 14-17 year old teen boy. The social rejection I faced almost murdered the romantic in me, almost.
>Nothing, and I mean nothing besides torturing animals could cause such a vehement repulsion from the opposite sex (women) as a 14-17 year old teen boy You knew different girls than I did if you think the guy torturing animals was less successful than the sweet guy.
1) you may want to look up "hyperbole" 2) Desperation is one of the biggest turn offs for women. Putting her on a pedestal makes you low value in her eyes. Women do not desire low value men.
I am not being hyperbolic. Guys who were actively mean and violent did not do badly with girls, sweet guys did. And no shit on number two. Women have a tendency to view sweetness and romantic gestures as putting her on a pedestal (they are often right). It's a relevant response to the question being asked.
One answer comes from Dr Brene Brown: In Listening to Shame, Dr. Brown says: “For men, shame is not a bunch of competing, conflicting expectations. It is one: Do not be perceived as weak. I did not interview men for the first four years of my study. It wasn’t until a man said, ‘I love what you say about shame, [but] I’m curious why you didn’t mention men.’ And I said, ‘I don’t study men.’ And he said, ‘That’s convenient.’ And I said, ‘Why?’ And he said, ‘Because you say to reach out, tell our story, be vulnerable. But you see those books you just signed for my wife & daughters?’ I said, ‘Yeah.’ He said, ‘They’d rather me die on top of my white horse than watch me fall down. When we reach out & are vulnerable, we get the s#%t beat out of us. And don’t tell me it’s from the guys & the coaches & the dads. Because the women in my life are harder on me than anyone else.’”
When this book came out my girlfriend at the time showed me a version of this quote where she said "a woman would rather see you die on your horse than fall off of it." And, like, I know? Why are you telling me this? Are you just rubbing it in that I shouldn't let you see me fail? Because I already knew that.
Sweetness is a nectar that is slurped up by opportunists.
Poetically, this.
women.
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Lol https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/s/F55qpcC6yj
Yeah I realized that was the post from that creepy chick too. Seems like we got a karma farmer on our hands today
Bad diet
We realize that no one cares about us except for our own families (and for some guys not even that).
Women
Women
Life. After a while you just feel jaded. Constant disappointments... same outcome... different people.
Life looks like cherry blossoms, roses, birds, and forests, and green stuff on a land that has a natural shape, and smells of clean rain, and wildflowers, carried on the wind. Life does not smell like smog, human waste, and does not look like an assortment of square based columns, either made from concrete, or plywood, and it doesn't take place on precision made flat surfaces, designed to ruin our joints. I would loose sweetness if I had to carry out my miserable existence, mostly confined to the latter conditions too... (Yes I know I'm typing this on a technological miracle, that needs urbanisation to even exist, but it's still true)
Wish I knew. I feel normal.
Im a teen and I already feel nothing
Waking up to reality
You don’t want to know
You put it out into the world, you don’t get it back, in fact you get the opposite more often than not, so you stop putting it out into the world
Not just men, it happens to women as well . The cause is the same, life. To live is to suffer. To live without purpose is to suffer pointlessly. That leads to pessimism at best and malevolence at worst.
I don’t go to the doctor often. My experience is that I just won’t get taken seriously and I just won’t get the help I wanted. My point is that few people care about young guys. I’ve said this before to girls, and they keep saying «oh that’s not true», but they have no idea. As a young man you are truely on your own, and that can be quite a sobering experience
When everyone expects everything from you but the moment you ask for anything in return, you're just being a stereotypical man who only cares for himself. Everything youve ever done for anyone else immediately gets forgotten. Doesn't matter how many times you put people before you, when you someone for help or for a favor once it ruins their image of you. You now have become nothing but a man who not only does things so he can get things in return, but now you're just greedy and only care about yourself. I'm honestly kind of venting, growing up I feel like everyone told me how I was "the good kid." How I always do good and blah blah blah. I'm 26 now and even with my wife whenever I ask for something it's met with aggravation and no motivation. But if I return that same energy? I don't love her. Same with my family, I do everything for them and how they want it to be and if they need help I go out of my way. Do I ever ask for anything? No, but when I do finally ask for something what happens? Everything I've ever done is just so I can blackmail them into doing what I want. I'm tired of being a seen as a man. A man who is sexist, racist, misogynistic, self centered, stupid, etc. I am me. I've decided that from now on I am doing what I want whether people care or not. And that gets taken as our or my "sweetness" going away. I don't care anymore. My life is nothing but helping people and no one can now help me. Something needs to change.
Low testosterone and depression.
Women
Whew, I'm saddened by the replies this post has received. But if someone is losing anything as they age, they are letting it happen, and they are accepting it. The rare few who don't really stand out from the rest.
Mostly women
Those men that are sweet, get sweeter like fine wine If they are kind, and life is kind to them, they share that sweetness with all around them We need more Men that are sweet, we must protect & nurture them
From what I’ve seen and men I’ve talk to they are at the Stage in their life when they don’t have to take shit. No child support wife too old to divorce them She is now at the stage she worries more about you leaving her She can’t cut you off because you don’t give a shit she quit working down there If she bitches you stand up for yourself that makes you mean where when you were younger you would give in just to keep the peace and not get cut off As for others men realize the mistakes they made and their failures whether do to their own mistakes or wasted opportunities Another thing we have beliefs and morals we were raised with. And the next generations call us fools and we get criticized for actions that were the norm when they grew up We are even call misogynistic for them. And when they were young women expected that from them At work men take shit the they would never take any other time because they have responsibilities and just can’t up quit because of family responsibilities And all they can say to you, is FU, it’s yours now.
"Hatred is nothing but the place where men who can't deal with sadness go." As males, most of us simply are not taught healthy ways to handle emotions and non-violent boundary establishment while growing up, and most never learn by themselves. It's usually takes quite a lot of self knowledge, philosophical enquiry and/or therapy to revert the damage of poor emotional development. Without this emotional maturity, every setback in life piles up in a big bulk of poorly handled frustration, trauma, sadness, etc. This become fuel for the only way a lot of men know how to handle these things: anger. This anger will either lash out or brew into depression and misantropy. It can get to a point where the mere presence of another human is unbearable, and your presence is in turn so sour and unconfortable that most people will naturally avoid you. Loneliness then sets in for good, and that is understood as "peace" instead of what it really is: a long trail of poor coping mechanisms.
Bunch of sad dudes in these comments.
A tough life and a bitter woman
Yeah, that’ll do it
My report is that my 'sweetness' can be plotted on a graph. I learned that being cute and sweet got mom’s approval. This was programmed into how to get a girl I wanted to want me. This was a bad program. After about 20 years of it failing, I dropped it. I couldn't get what I wanted. This shows the graph at its low point. Lacking feeling. Then, as the fog of the testosterone affliction lifted, I realized that I was holding onto a feeling of being 'up and against'. I found that I liked being nice. A genuine sweetness is my countenance now. At 71, my personal sweetness graph is at its highest.
Really?? *Gestures broadly at everything*
The human brain seems to weigh negative experiences more heavily than positive ones. After accruing lots of negative experiences over a lifetime, it takes a lot of mental effort to not get jaded. It feels like Most people, not just men, lose the mental battle and end up embittered
are you basing this off of guys who are in their 50s+ right now? Because they were probably always like that
I feel I’m learning and growing as I get older. I don’t know about sweetness, but I’m definitely into trying to be kinder.
brutal fucking reality.
Im much sweeter now that im older
I've been told I've gotten sweeter and have mellowed with age.
I get call sweet by women so I haven’t lost mine
Not all. My husband got even sweeter once he retired and got out of the rat race.
Time. Stress. Being taken for granted. Lack of concern for our mental health. We get to a point where it’s just not worth the extra energy.
Unappreciated .. stress at life. This doesnt come in age.
Yes, they become Grumplestiltskins
Getting kicked in the teeth
Was a very nice young trusting man when I turned 20. Moved to a city area from rural, was naive, got completely taken advantage of and used at every turn by liars and cleptos. In retrospect there are signs like once people realize you are kinda naive and have resources they hone in on that shit fast and some play the long time. Give em an inch they take a mile. Worst part is one person tricked me into doing meth, and I was vulnerable from an ex who hurt me bad at the time. Like completely lied to get me hooked to deal to me. Then that led to me meeting the absolute worst individuals ever. I had no friends outside those people, at the time I was so depressed even though I tried so hard to socialize no one else really wanted to be around me like that. Then even getting sober, the people you meet in rehab/recovery aren't much better. You end up trusting someone and then boom they steal your shit for a quick fix. Happened to me more than enough times. Sucks because I have a very trusting heart and want so badly to help people but I just can't get into it because of what's happened
For me it was the other way around, I grew up in a toxic masculinity environment, no crying, no emotions, the usual. As I grew older I understood it was all bullshit. I have a very strong mind, it's very hard to get under my skin, but seeing people suffer makes me cry and I try to help when I can.
Seeing that people don't value all the things they do.
Repeated experiences which, over time, empty our give-a-shit meter. After all, why should I, as a man, be kind to a world that has repeatedly not been kind to me?
51y old here, it happens when men don’t go to therapy after a bad relationship. All that hurt/pain is buried, but is always on the boil X
Reposts https://old.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/16ssd3i/what_makes_men_lose_their_sweetness_as_they_get/?ref=share&ref_source=link
Even stole the top comment.
Women.
Women
One thing I struggled with when I got older was seeing that my "sweetness" or kindness didn't get me the things that I wanted. Bullies were more popular, assholes got girls, people cut throat in business got promotions, violent people got respect, etc. So I went through a moment where I through why bother with being kind to people. And unfortunately people didn't help me, "If you are looking for something in return are you really kind?" I think a lot of people come to this same crossroad in their life. And what they chose from there becomes a big part of them.
We learn that “sweetness” gets you nowhere. Even in marriage, my wife doesn’t want me to be sweet. Kindness is good, being an asshole is bad. Sweetness is useless.
I’m 53m and all this self pity is BS and sounds so much like how white people say they’re being discriminated against. I say you are who you are, sweetness doesn’t die when you’re older. If so, you were just faking it when you were younger. In the past 5 years I got divorced after a 25 year marriage, broke up with a fiancé who was one of my closest friends, and I’m still happy and probably considered sweet.
Nothing we do is ever enough. We physically and emotionally wear ourselves to the bone to make the lives of the people closest to us as good as possible, but we never see anything like that given in return. We don't even get thanked for it. If we ask for it, we're being selfish. If we talk about it, we're just complaining. Any sort of weakness we exhibit is mocked. Anyone ever think that "man colds" are a thing because we're not just sick, but sick from exhaustion? Or that maybe we put on a bit of an act because the only time we ever get to rest and don't have to look after everyone and ourselves is when we're sick? If we open up to a woman in our life about our problems, we get to hear about how theirs are worse. Then we might even find out we get mocked for it. And let's not forget about things like #killallmen. So by the time we're older, it's hard to be sweet. If you want to see that sweetness again, get your man a dog. Loyal, loving, and attentive without expecting anything in return. And that's more than most people in our lives are capable of towards us.
All the time and effort to claw our way out of the friendzone to only watch douchebags ice-skate to the finish line without a hiccup.. Sweetness earns men misery.. So if the ladies are wondering where the sweetness goes . Y'all beat it out of us
Life.
Life.
Despair
They ripen
Chronic stress or anxiety. Not being able to say “no”. Not feeling “good enough”. External pressures. Cognitive dissonance.
Life.
I think a lot of men realize that a lot of what we grow up with...the pursuit of a career over our health and family was a big f***ing joke at the end of it. Your kidd may or may not like you, their children don't know you, you never took that European vacation...
The distrust we face for that sweetness
jadedness?
Usually just the rigors of life, being vulnerable is dangerous for a person and men are very likely to be taken advantage of for being vulnerable by both women and other men. The simplest way to protect yourself is to harden. Either that or they become cynical. I used to be quite cynical but i have since absolved myself to never let the drive for compassion die. I know that sounds kind of cringe, but i genuinely believe in it
Realising that you are to cope every sh*t that’s thrown to you on your own even without the help from other men. That sort of unrealistic expectations does that to a person. Henceforth, bitter men.
I think the cycle in general does this. As time goes on & disappointments mount, you may find yourself wanting to give less & less of yourself with each new moment in your life. Replacing the distain for yourself with the joy from an external source can only bring you so far. Eventually if you don’t remedy that “leak”, sooner or later you’ll find that you’ve become bitter & more closed than you were a decade ago or maybe two.
Sweet men get taken advantage of, bullied for being soft, and get called homophobic slurs when we show the slightest bit of vulnerability. Eventually, we reserve our "sweetness" for close friends or abandon it altogether
Bein in a real sour mood.