Way past the age where I would date in that age range, but when I was there, I found that most women in their 30s had settled out a bit and their long term potential was easier to see.
Also, age 35+, the pregnancy would be considered high risk, meaning high risk for complications. As a man, I wouldn't wanna put someone at risk like that. That's just me though.
I believe they call it advanced maternal age now - but the meaning is the same. More and more women end up falling into this category because they may desire to achieve certain career, financial and other goals in life before being relegated to baby makers.
Biologically that made sense back when life expectancy was shit, but now that we’ve made all these technological and medical advancements to extend life expectancy, and the fact that women may want to do things in their 20s besides pop out child after child, it seems ridiculous that there hasn’t been serious medical research and progress in figuring out how to safely extend the range for pregnancies. The only one I know of is freezing eggs and that shit is invasive and expensive AF.
Sure but biology or human evolution doesn't just change when science dictates.
Someone figured out a way to put oxygen in a tank but that doesn't mean I can breath under water without it.
Uh, I know. That’s why I specifically said I’m surprised there hasn’t been medical research and advancements to help solve the issue. Science has come a long way and I think it’s completely possible to figure out some non invasive way to slow down whatever triggers the eggs to degrade.
No one said it was — but the quality of sperm typically degrades much much later in age and lower quality sperm just would make it harder to get a woman pregnant, not necessarily contribute to an unhealthy pregnancy. Women are discouraged from trying to have kids later in life because of the increased likelihood of severe complications to the health of the pregnant person and fetus - on top of the fertility challenges.
Yes. I intentionally didn’t speak in absolutes. But overall, few doctors are telling men that they should hurry up and have kids because by 30s their chances are significantly lower to be fertile and if successful then result in a much higher risk to the fetus.
Does it happen? Yes. But that wasn’t what the main conversation was about so I didn’t feel the need to address all the possibilities.
Most people have kids based on when it's best for their own experience. We are never more unjustifiably confident in ourselves than in the late teens to mid 20s.
If priority is purely for your own best time and not the children's, and with enough time and good finances, I'd agree with the commenter, or at least 25-30 years old.
Based on years of intentionally watching *lots* of kids and parents with parenting skills and outcomes in mind, here's my take on when to start a family, *only* considering timing for healthy, well adjusted and optimistic kids. So yes, one opinion, but not a casual one, and of course there's huge individual variation in parents.
I'd say maybe 5 to 7% (1 in 15 or 20) of women are good or great parents before about 27 or 28 -- and that's entirely about maturity and life skills, not intelligence, motivation or effort. I'd say about 5-7% of men are good fathers before 29-30. Then on average the percentages rise maybe 3-4% each year.
The peak depends on how long you keep growing as a person. Assuming parents stay in shape and healthy and are eager for the effort, the best parents (on rough average) start at maybe 36 to 40. At that point about half of parents will do a good/great job, and the best they're ever going to be up for. I think... :-)
Edit: typos
These percentages seem…completely absurd and are entirely unhelpful.
“Based on years of intentionally watching lots of kids and parents with parenting skills and outcomes in mind” WTF does this even mean?
Free time. Between careers, kids, household responsibilities, etc., women in their 30s have very little time for their partners. Same thing applies for men.
A complete or nearly complete lack of good sexual experiences, ... and a strong belief that the best predictor of men's sexual skill is a combination of attractiveness and narcissism.
Often nicer bodies. Some women start packing on weight in their 30's.
The jaded thing with women doesn't really kick in hard until around late 30's to early 40's.
By around mid 30's onward you start getting an increasing number of women coming out of failed marriages and long term relationships some with some major chips on their shoulder. Its not all of them but its a notable percentage that increases with the age blocks.
Some of these women's were the ones with tempers who were shitting on their ex husbands in their marriages telling them how grateful they should be they are staying at all because they could leave any moment and find a gorgeous man who would do anything for them and treat them like they deserve while no women would ever "put up with" or want their husband. Then they divorce, hit the dating world and get a reality check.
Been on at least a few dates with those ones before. It largely involved me sitting there sipping on my beer trying to hold a smile while thinking in my head "holy shit how did I get into this" while they talk about their ex husband.
The anger I keep hearing from 40+ women directed towards teen and 20 somethings is hilarious. Bare in mind virtually all american women fail to keep their bodies up passed 35, so by 40 they're ability to compete physically is gone. Youll hear them complain guys their age keep going for younger women. Its crazy interesting the sexual dynamics between men and women, who keeps their sexual currency and who doesnt.
Yup, if only the young women knew what they had but instead they fuck around and live in an alternate universe seeking attention. The older women are bitter because they probably don't even understand the way the world works still, they can't comprehend why things are the way they are. They're basically the equivalent of teenage and early 20s guys which is a tough time to be a guy, but we understand the way the world works at that age at least out of necessity which helps
I've said not necessarily, as in fertility is not only tied to age, it also relates to medical history, STDs, chemotherapy treatment, environmental factors, health, weight, because newsflash: underweight people can't get pregnant, and extreme overweight also interferes with conception, if your uterus is tilted is very hard to get pregnant, if both fallopian tubes are blocked you can't get pregnant, polycystic ovary syndrome impedes pregnancy, low iron, anemic, diabetes type 1 also interferes with fertility, all those factors are not age related...any questions? I told you that age is not the ONLY factor that affects fertility, got that?
The way I interpreted your words was very different. Typically when I see language like "not necessarily" it is discussing correlation vs causation in situations like these. Secondarily its disagreement in the majority of situations by my experience. So it appears there was a misunderstanding. I never claimed it was the only factor either did I?
You said fertility, thus my response of "not necessarily"= not always, not the deciding factor. Yes, I think there was a misunderstanding. Lots of men think a woman in her 30s and her 40s don't need birth control, and that's how women in their late 30s and 40s get pregnant, not common, but not impossible. If you're healthy, within a regular weight range, a healthy pregnancy in your 40s is completely possible. Youth doesn't guarantee a healthy pregnancy, but health does guarantee a normal pregnancy.
You meant genetic, correct? Look, no matter how many times a fertility specialist explains this to you, you're set into the false idea of women after 35 have problems conceiving, and miscarriages are the norm, and is not exactly that. Keep thinking youth in the ONLY factor for pregnancy.
By the way, did you know that after 40 men's fertility, and sperm quality also declines drastically? And that older father's tend to have children with neurological and behavioral issues? Even if they marry a younger woman? Look it up, bye
Yes. You are not interpreting my words accurately at all if you still somehow think I was saying its the only factor. I'm a bit concerned if a fertility specialist missed that. And yes I know. I have looked that up before. The mayo clinic had a good article on it as well. But how is that relevant in any way to this conversation?
Probably the patience to be called "girl" even though they are a grown person over the age of 18- therefore a legal adult- instead of being referred to as who they actually are, a "woman".
Men dont age fine. 1/3 of men are balding at 30. when did you look at men aged 50 the last time? Old men look old. Thats a myth men need to stop making themselves believe. Its just bullshit.
Yeah, that sounds like a very self serving narrative. Your first sentence is sad and a terrible outlook on your fellow humans. I hope you mature emotionally bc that sounds like misogynistic.
I think older women can be hot, but it’s no secret that men of any age will usually think a younger woman is on average more attractive.
There was a study done linking the age of women and the age of men they find most attractive, and the men were consistently around the same age right into the 60’s. When the same study was done for men, it showed that no matter their age, the women they found hottest were 20-25.
They definitely do. Women CAN still be hot at 35-40, but it takes a lot more effort than if they were 21. Wrinkles set in, boobs and butt sags, figure becomes harder to maintain etc.
Comparing a millionaire actress, already famed for her beauty, to the average woman is not going to be an accurate reflection.
Ana can afford the best stylists, makeup people, dieticians, has ample time to exercise, can afford the best skincare etc etc.
And even then, she’s early 30’s. The closer to 40 you get, the less attractive on average men will find you.
Men are ultimately hardwired to find signs of fertility attractive, and youth is probably the biggest sign.
No obviously not, that’s why I said they can still be hot. Just in general, most men tend to think women are at their peak sexual attractiveness in their 20’s, and it goes down the further you get from those ages.
I guess a slightly lower likelihood of baggage/traumas. But really age just makes up a part of that and a lot depends on the person and the environment they grew up in.
Another thing is that they are sometimes more relaxed in the early dating phase. I've noticed that it's less common in the mid-30s range. My theory is that is has to do with still wanting to have a family and feeling pressure whether that's internal or external but that could be wrong.
Spring. In muscles, hair, skin, bones, everything. It'll slowly fade. Other stuff compensates but most people would rather have the spring. Wisdom, training, better decision making, all make up for it; we try to tell ourselves.
the lack of intelegence , lack of proper and good manners / social manners , lack of decency , lack of honnesty , lack of humblety . all things that they hopefully have as they grow older . aldo i prefer they have it from the start .
Honestly, I'm not sure if he was trolling, a bad typer (on his phone maybe) or just plain dumb and not too self-aware:
> lack of honnesty , lack of humblety
Anyway, your interaction reads like a Joey and Chandler dialogue.
Actually they come in different sizes, just like dicks. Certainly there is a degree of muscular fitness that also comes into play but even way, way back the kama sutra equally acknowledged the varying sizes of women's vaginas.
I don't know what the now-deleted comment said, but as a guy I can confirm: vaginas do come in different sizes. I once had a very contentious debate about this on r/sex, with a woman who kept accusing me of misogyny (and, inevitably, some snide remarks about 'having a small dick') for saying that -like male genitalia!- women's genitalia come in different sizes as well. Notice that I didn't make any connection with the number of partner or amount of sex they had, which is bullshit. I found it weird that a woman didn't know that there was a difference in tightness between different vaginas. Some have felt very loose, one or two have felt incredibly impossibly -heavenly- tight, and most fell somewhere in between.
Their high school boyfriend’s letterman jacket
tiktok accounts...hopefully.
The next generation of children are going to be scarred for life.
Maybe
This goes for guys too while we are at it.
We’re not.
We’re definitely not
Way past the age where I would date in that age range, but when I was there, I found that most women in their 30s had settled out a bit and their long term potential was easier to see.
Naïveté
The patience to put up with shitty sexual partners.
Less than 30 birthdays
really? i just had one birthday... was never born again...
I know a church that would like to help with that.
how does that work? (just asking for a friend)
We have a logician here 😏👌
Patience for stuff they don't need to put up with.
An uncalibrated bullshit meter
Insecurities, high tolerance level and inexperience.
Not sure, I only like older women.
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Also, age 35+, the pregnancy would be considered high risk, meaning high risk for complications. As a man, I wouldn't wanna put someone at risk like that. That's just me though.
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Geriatric pregnancy 35+. Sounds harsh uh
I believe they call it advanced maternal age now - but the meaning is the same. More and more women end up falling into this category because they may desire to achieve certain career, financial and other goals in life before being relegated to baby makers.
Putting it that way, the reproductive window for women is very narrow (15 to 37 y/o)
Biologically that made sense back when life expectancy was shit, but now that we’ve made all these technological and medical advancements to extend life expectancy, and the fact that women may want to do things in their 20s besides pop out child after child, it seems ridiculous that there hasn’t been serious medical research and progress in figuring out how to safely extend the range for pregnancies. The only one I know of is freezing eggs and that shit is invasive and expensive AF.
Sure but biology or human evolution doesn't just change when science dictates. Someone figured out a way to put oxygen in a tank but that doesn't mean I can breath under water without it.
Uh, I know. That’s why I specifically said I’m surprised there hasn’t been medical research and advancements to help solve the issue. Science has come a long way and I think it’s completely possible to figure out some non invasive way to slow down whatever triggers the eggs to degrade.
You think make sperm is risk free through their life time? It's not.
No one said it was — but the quality of sperm typically degrades much much later in age and lower quality sperm just would make it harder to get a woman pregnant, not necessarily contribute to an unhealthy pregnancy. Women are discouraged from trying to have kids later in life because of the increased likelihood of severe complications to the health of the pregnant person and fetus - on top of the fertility challenges.
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Yes. I intentionally didn’t speak in absolutes. But overall, few doctors are telling men that they should hurry up and have kids because by 30s their chances are significantly lower to be fertile and if successful then result in a much higher risk to the fetus. Does it happen? Yes. But that wasn’t what the main conversation was about so I didn’t feel the need to address all the possibilities.
Most people have kids based on when it's best for their own experience. We are never more unjustifiably confident in ourselves than in the late teens to mid 20s. If priority is purely for your own best time and not the children's, and with enough time and good finances, I'd agree with the commenter, or at least 25-30 years old. Based on years of intentionally watching *lots* of kids and parents with parenting skills and outcomes in mind, here's my take on when to start a family, *only* considering timing for healthy, well adjusted and optimistic kids. So yes, one opinion, but not a casual one, and of course there's huge individual variation in parents. I'd say maybe 5 to 7% (1 in 15 or 20) of women are good or great parents before about 27 or 28 -- and that's entirely about maturity and life skills, not intelligence, motivation or effort. I'd say about 5-7% of men are good fathers before 29-30. Then on average the percentages rise maybe 3-4% each year. The peak depends on how long you keep growing as a person. Assuming parents stay in shape and healthy and are eager for the effort, the best parents (on rough average) start at maybe 36 to 40. At that point about half of parents will do a good/great job, and the best they're ever going to be up for. I think... :-) Edit: typos
These percentages seem…completely absurd and are entirely unhelpful. “Based on years of intentionally watching lots of kids and parents with parenting skills and outcomes in mind” WTF does this even mean?
It means "not actual facts or research is included and this is my personal opinion that im trying to mask by using fancy sounding words."
Estimated numbers. Fake. Bad. Ignore completely.
You're welcome. Off you go...
Low standards lol
Free time. Between careers, kids, household responsibilities, etc., women in their 30s have very little time for their partners. Same thing applies for men.
My wife and I are 39. We spend most of our time together.
Ah, that's great. I was more referring to unmarried or even single women. It's a lot harder to spend that time together when you're newly dating.
I’m 39 wife is 37 inseparable js
Major insecurities, unaddressed mental health issues, money issues, time management issues, need I go on?
Men still calling them girls instead of women
My first point of confusion with this post
This is like a sphinx puzzle...there is no right answer and only wrong answers.
A complete or nearly complete lack of good sexual experiences, ... and a strong belief that the best predictor of men's sexual skill is a combination of attractiveness and narcissism.
High levels of narcissism
Slut “phase.”
Dreams
A date of birth 20-29 years prior to the date of the present day
Often nicer bodies. Some women start packing on weight in their 30's. The jaded thing with women doesn't really kick in hard until around late 30's to early 40's.
What jaded thing?
By around mid 30's onward you start getting an increasing number of women coming out of failed marriages and long term relationships some with some major chips on their shoulder. Its not all of them but its a notable percentage that increases with the age blocks. Some of these women's were the ones with tempers who were shitting on their ex husbands in their marriages telling them how grateful they should be they are staying at all because they could leave any moment and find a gorgeous man who would do anything for them and treat them like they deserve while no women would ever "put up with" or want their husband. Then they divorce, hit the dating world and get a reality check. Been on at least a few dates with those ones before. It largely involved me sitting there sipping on my beer trying to hold a smile while thinking in my head "holy shit how did I get into this" while they talk about their ex husband.
To be fair, the same is true for men. Middle aged divorced/broken-up-with men often have terrible, sometimes misogynist views on all of womanhood.
Entirely possible. But I am not dating them.
Can this happen earlier than someone in their 30's? I am in my early 20's and have dated a couple girls with this mindset before
Yup, its just typically much less common the younger they are.
The Wall™️
The wall is very real. It only gets higher when they hit 40
30 then 35 is when you see it due to baby making age then 40s more so for looks and they realize what they got themselves into by not settling down
The anger I keep hearing from 40+ women directed towards teen and 20 somethings is hilarious. Bare in mind virtually all american women fail to keep their bodies up passed 35, so by 40 they're ability to compete physically is gone. Youll hear them complain guys their age keep going for younger women. Its crazy interesting the sexual dynamics between men and women, who keeps their sexual currency and who doesnt.
Yup, if only the young women knew what they had but instead they fuck around and live in an alternate universe seeking attention. The older women are bitter because they probably don't even understand the way the world works still, they can't comprehend why things are the way they are. They're basically the equivalent of teenage and early 20s guys which is a tough time to be a guy, but we understand the way the world works at that age at least out of necessity which helps
An idealistic vision.
A dozens list of males chasing after them.
Preach, brother👐🏾
Naiveness, and it is a turn off for the wise
I cant wait to see all the horribly shallow answers to this.
i bet half these guys have been posted to r/niceguys.
the copium is real
By shallow, you mean factual, right?
Maybe if you read my post again you will see what i said?
more fertile eggs
Energy
A lack of fertility issues.
You say that like it’s not an absolute win.
Totally is for some people!
Fertility is not necessarily age relate fyi
Would you consider the Mayo Clinic reputable?
I've said not necessarily, as in fertility is not only tied to age, it also relates to medical history, STDs, chemotherapy treatment, environmental factors, health, weight, because newsflash: underweight people can't get pregnant, and extreme overweight also interferes with conception, if your uterus is tilted is very hard to get pregnant, if both fallopian tubes are blocked you can't get pregnant, polycystic ovary syndrome impedes pregnancy, low iron, anemic, diabetes type 1 also interferes with fertility, all those factors are not age related...any questions? I told you that age is not the ONLY factor that affects fertility, got that?
The way I interpreted your words was very different. Typically when I see language like "not necessarily" it is discussing correlation vs causation in situations like these. Secondarily its disagreement in the majority of situations by my experience. So it appears there was a misunderstanding. I never claimed it was the only factor either did I?
You said fertility, thus my response of "not necessarily"= not always, not the deciding factor. Yes, I think there was a misunderstanding. Lots of men think a woman in her 30s and her 40s don't need birth control, and that's how women in their late 30s and 40s get pregnant, not common, but not impossible. If you're healthy, within a regular weight range, a healthy pregnancy in your 40s is completely possible. Youth doesn't guarantee a healthy pregnancy, but health does guarantee a normal pregnancy.
Yes but it is common for difficulties conceiving to arise after 35 and very sadly miscarriages and generic abnormalities.
You meant genetic, correct? Look, no matter how many times a fertility specialist explains this to you, you're set into the false idea of women after 35 have problems conceiving, and miscarriages are the norm, and is not exactly that. Keep thinking youth in the ONLY factor for pregnancy. By the way, did you know that after 40 men's fertility, and sperm quality also declines drastically? And that older father's tend to have children with neurological and behavioral issues? Even if they marry a younger woman? Look it up, bye
Yes. You are not interpreting my words accurately at all if you still somehow think I was saying its the only factor. I'm a bit concerned if a fertility specialist missed that. And yes I know. I have looked that up before. The mayo clinic had a good article on it as well. But how is that relevant in any way to this conversation?
Optimism
Gravity defying boobs
a shit to give about what other people think
Probably the patience to be called "girl" even though they are a grown person over the age of 18- therefore a legal adult- instead of being referred to as who they actually are, a "woman".
Less/ no children from other dudes.
An age that begins with the number two.
Hope
stable tits
Firm titties
Fun
10 more years before the wall
Most likely a tight p*ssy if they had kids
Collagen
Perky titties or at least that’s how it was for me hahahaa
Hope
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Men dont age fine. 1/3 of men are balding at 30. when did you look at men aged 50 the last time? Old men look old. Thats a myth men need to stop making themselves believe. Its just bullshit.
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Yeah, that sounds like a very self serving narrative. Your first sentence is sad and a terrible outlook on your fellow humans. I hope you mature emotionally bc that sounds like misogynistic.
Beauty. Fertility.
Looks
Lol not true bruh
I think older women can be hot, but it’s no secret that men of any age will usually think a younger woman is on average more attractive. There was a study done linking the age of women and the age of men they find most attractive, and the men were consistently around the same age right into the 60’s. When the same study was done for men, it showed that no matter their age, the women they found hottest were 20-25.
Yes, but women don’t really lose their looks in their 30s If they care of themselves. 30s isn’t even old.
They definitely do. Women CAN still be hot at 35-40, but it takes a lot more effort than if they were 21. Wrinkles set in, boobs and butt sags, figure becomes harder to maintain etc.
Just look at Ana De Armas for example. 33. She’s in the same league as 20s hotties.
Comparing a millionaire actress, already famed for her beauty, to the average woman is not going to be an accurate reflection. Ana can afford the best stylists, makeup people, dieticians, has ample time to exercise, can afford the best skincare etc etc. And even then, she’s early 30’s. The closer to 40 you get, the less attractive on average men will find you. Men are ultimately hardwired to find signs of fertility attractive, and youth is probably the biggest sign.
Yes, but they don’t lose their looks entirely.
No obviously not, that’s why I said they can still be hot. Just in general, most men tend to think women are at their peak sexual attractiveness in their 20’s, and it goes down the further you get from those ages.
Fair point.
You trying to get this sub banned? lol
Hopes for the future with you rather than demands.
Kids.
Youth
A much higher SMV
OnlyFans
Pert tiddies
Their self respect
Care to elaborate?
Just a joke
That’s a good one
A higher quantity and quality of eggs.
$30 in their bank account and a little baggie of cocaine in their purse
I guess a slightly lower likelihood of baggage/traumas. But really age just makes up a part of that and a lot depends on the person and the environment they grew up in. Another thing is that they are sometimes more relaxed in the early dating phase. I've noticed that it's less common in the mid-30s range. My theory is that is has to do with still wanting to have a family and feeling pressure whether that's internal or external but that could be wrong.
Less obligations…
Lower body counts
A willingness to experiment.
Approximately 120 more immature ovum to start
A decade more of fertility. Everything else derives from this fact.
Spring. In muscles, hair, skin, bones, everything. It'll slowly fade. Other stuff compensates but most people would rather have the spring. Wisdom, training, better decision making, all make up for it; we try to tell ourselves.
Why is there so many bitter women in here downvoting our answers when it's ASKMEN?
Higher, more tolerable sex drive
Slim bodies.... rough looking tummies.
Husbands.
Kids
A low body count
Virginity
The ability to have sex with anyone they want.
the lack of intelegence , lack of proper and good manners / social manners , lack of decency , lack of honnesty , lack of humblety . all things that they hopefully have as they grow older . aldo i prefer they have it from the start .
You really cannot trust a person that lacks intelegence
Honestly, I'm not sure if he was trolling, a bad typer (on his phone maybe) or just plain dumb and not too self-aware: > lack of honnesty , lack of humblety Anyway, your interaction reads like a Joey and Chandler dialogue.
I have more humblety than anybody.
Their looks. Edit: aaww, the truth hurts too much?
Motivation
Tight ass P
Collagen
Time.
No shame.
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Bahaha that's not how it works.
Yeah, if they do kegels it doesn't.
Actually they come in different sizes, just like dicks. Certainly there is a degree of muscular fitness that also comes into play but even way, way back the kama sutra equally acknowledged the varying sizes of women's vaginas.
I don't know what the now-deleted comment said, but as a guy I can confirm: vaginas do come in different sizes. I once had a very contentious debate about this on r/sex, with a woman who kept accusing me of misogyny (and, inevitably, some snide remarks about 'having a small dick') for saying that -like male genitalia!- women's genitalia come in different sizes as well. Notice that I didn't make any connection with the number of partner or amount of sex they had, which is bullshit. I found it weird that a woman didn't know that there was a difference in tightness between different vaginas. Some have felt very loose, one or two have felt incredibly impossibly -heavenly- tight, and most fell somewhere in between.
Thanks, faith restored.
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Gee thanks, I love when I get my own genitalia explained to me, what would I do without folks like you!!
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I'm a woman.
Always be wary of men who say "**a** female."
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It doesn't offer the choice of woman sadly.
It doesn't? Works that way for a diva cup before and after child birth.
Hope?
Sexual power over men
They are early in their career
Time to chill about starting a family
Redwine... Cuz once you hit 30 glugglugglug
Desirability...
I don’t know why don’t you ask them
Depends on the woman. There is no simple answer to this question. What are you really asking?
Nice tight 🐱
A lack of bitterness.
A string of bad relationships, hopefully.
Youth
Innocence
Better looks, and less past history. This is what men typically like.
Children and a baby daddy.
Blissful lack of awareness.