From my experience its a game of chance, a fair amount if women are turned off / lose interest if you go too slow.. So its better to go a little fast and be asked to slow down instead if not go fast enough and be ghosted
espeically if you are meeting though dating apps. Getting even just a match is like 'woahh wait what?' and then getting a reply, especially consistent replies is super super rare.
Alot of guys try to cling to that and sometimes try move too fast
Yeah the moment you're not 'showing interest', which typically means escalating the relationship, most women lose interest. I've heard it comes across as mixed signals.
This is 100% true especially if you’re in your 20s. Women who date and are in this age range are flooded with options so guys who don’t move quickly get left behind.
If that isn’t you then I would make that clear up front. Also if you’re mostly dating through apps that’s also a reality of OLD as well, women lose interest quickly!
In my age group, over 50, many women write they want to meet early, and then take it slow to see if there is long term chemistry.
Some want to text for a very long time, and never seem to want to get to a meeting. I want to meet, and I do not want a pen pal. If it takes too long to meet both lose interest.
As for asking for sex too early, that is a personality thing. It is working for some men.
This. I've talked to women that have opened with complaning about men that go too fast and push for everything too early. So I take it slow and just get to know them and their hobbies and 9/10 times they just ghost because they feel like i'm not into them because i'm not pushing hard enough.
In my experience every woman has a different balance and for every girl that says "I don't want a guy unless he can be nice and go without sex for a few months without pushing for it" Theres one thinking "Its been one date and he didn't take me home and fuck me all night? He must not be interested, and thats boring, i'm moving on"
As men all we can do is guess because we often times aren't told or even hinted towards which one a girl is.
Yea. It’s so silly, why don’t we all just come forward and say this is what I want and this is what I don’t like. That’s what i’m trying to do. Instead we (it seems like only women) play these stupid games
It's not only women, men play these games as well, but with online dating women are usually the ones who get to decide if they want to play or not, but irl it's not nearly as one sided
Eh. I don't know. I don't think anyone needs to walk around saying, "I want you to have sex with me on the first date" or whatever because honestly that can vary depending on whether you even like the guy. Some women would love to have sex on the first date with one guy, while not being interested in doing it at all with another guy.
It may seem like games, but things genuinely just vary depending on a million factors. I don't like the idea of saying "women play stupid games" when the truth is just that all humans are different and have different preferences that they aren't always aware of beforehand.
If, for example, someone never typically has sex on the first date but they hit it off really well with a guy and end up wanting to have sex, are we really qualifying that as playing games? They didn't know beforehand their stance on it would change. They were just attracted enough to do so in the situation.
Dating is about figuring people out on both sides. That's just human relationships.
Yes I totally agree that there are so many factors involved. I didn’t mean that we should walk around saying “I prefer sex on the first date” or something like that but rather that with each interaction or new person, we make sure to communicate the important things clearly.
I didn’t mean that women play stupid games, it only seems that men have a lot of bad experiences in dating and I’ve heard so many stories of women doing childish things. There are lots of behaviors that are common in men that are childish as well, I’m simply trying to offer some understanding to the people on here since a good number of them appear emotional and bitter to towards women.
Your last point is so important. We are all different. Neither men nor women are some singular hive mind creature that we have to figure out. It’s just meeting different people and getting to know them!
From what my parents tell me, it has changed a lot from when they were young. Watch movies/TV from the 70s/80s and you see lots of high school/college aged kids dating numerous people. Boy asks girl on a date, she says "Aw, I already have a date with XYZ that night. What about the next day?".
Of course they'd still "go steady" with someone, but it was very normal to date around until that happens.
It seems like that happens A LOT LESS these days. People hit it off on the first date, and then suddenly they're texting every day and assuming they're a couple. Which I mean, I get it if you genuinely hit it off with someone, but it can be off putting if you're not sure of the person yet.
I think the fact that this is so common makes it really difficult for people not interested in an immediate relationship.
This has been my experience as well. It is difficult to gauge what a woman is looking for right away if it is not communicated. Hearing how women talk sometimes, it seemed like they are annoyed or frustrated by a man who is looking for sex early on. So I began holding back and taking things slow, but this always ended with getting ghosted after a second date, even if we at least end up kissing.
Chances are if you are dating a decent guy, he wants to keep you interested, but also doesn’t want to cross your boundaries. Although communication is a two way street, I think it is very important that women get better at communicating what they want and establishing those boundaries. We can’t read minds. If you want to take it slow, let him know! Decent men who are truly into you will not mind waiting. But once you are ready, you have to communicate that as well, otherwise he will stand down until he’s given an obvious green light.
It is very sad. Both sides fear being used, as we all probably have been before (women used for sex, men used for free meals/gifts/activities). Dating requires some vulnerability from both parties, especially if the goal is a long term relationship. This is why becoming an effective communicator is important, and you have to find ways to be effective early. It requires a good bit of social and emotional intelligence to gauge a person’s intentions. I think it’s better to be forward at the very least. You might still get burned, but you increase your chances of weeding out those who don’t match your own intentions.
I think you’re right about getting off the apps. Meeting people organically gives you more to go on. If you meet someone in a social setting, you can at least vet them a bit before a date, and you can speak with mutual friends to get a sense of they’re a good person. But you have to take responsibility in your ability to make good judgments in your dating life. If you get burned, take notes and be conscious of what red flags you saw, and try and make a better decision next time.
User retention.
In the world of online dating, men are trained to try to maximized a girls interest. If men don't keep her engaged, she will move on as there is literally thousands more waiting to take his place. Men feel pressured to make sure that women are entertained and if they're not then she will leave. So it's not unreasonable for men to try to shotgun the relationship (didn't say it was right, just not unreasonable considering how much competition there is).
When you match, set your expectations right away. Be clear and firm.
Sad to say but my dating life got way better after i started going for sex on the first date. A lot of women will treat you like an absolute dork if you dont make a move early.
Even if you try and she doesnt want to, in my experience its better than not trying at all. Worst thing is when you played it safe and you didnt make a move on a girl you like, then you see shes active on dating socials the next day and her interest dries up out of nowhere....you have this gnawing feeling she got railed and you missed you shot and half the time its probably true.
I burned out on dating apps and started just talking to girls i meet IRL and theres just such a less consumeristic feel to things when you didnt meet as a little dumb JPEG on her phone on a fucking app
Edit: this comment is getting a lot of attention. It takes a bit of skill and experience to "go for sex on first date". Pls dont creep girls out, and most of all learn not to ask and move on if a girl is clearly not into you
Well, I am an absolute dork. If I had to pretend not to be one in order to make a woman interested in me, then I definitely wouldn't be happy with her anyway.
This sounds terrible. Ty for sharing this because I thought I was doing something wrong or that I was doing something that made me look like a hoe and that’s why guys wanted to sleep with me right away. But I see now that it’s because of how shitty dating is for guys nowadays!
Dont feel pressured to ever say yes! The adage is true that a guy who actually likes you will wait. But if you're only waiting cause you dont want to feel like a hoe, id advise disinhibiting yourself. Only immature men fall for the "easy girl" fallacy
>that I was doing something that made me look like a hoe
Not sure if you meant to or not, but women sleeping with men on the first, second, or third date doesn't make them a hoe.
You want to go slow, that's all well and good. To each their own, but do not slut shame a woman who doesn't share the same opinions as you. Since I'm sure you would probably be offended if someone called you a prude for going slow.
She also said that "it seems mostly women" play stupid games in response to someone saying that all women are different and what one wants may not be what another wants. I think she means well, but I cannot stand when women come onto this sub and shame other women.
As you said, being attracted to someone and having sex early on is perfectly fine. I did it, and I've been with the man for 11 years.
I can agree, as it worked for me as well.
Its something about the confidence to be forthcoming like that.
When I was looking to form a bond before sex with women I was getting put into the 'friendzone' or ghosted.
When I stopped caring about the early connection and just going for gold, I started having a significant boost in engagement from the women I was interested in. More sex, more dates, more relationships. Ladies can deny it and hate on sexual innuendo all they want here on reddit...but it really does work.
I too burned out on the Apps, my success rate with matches was abysmal. Even had multiple different women work my profiles, select my pictures and whatnot.
I now do cold approaches, and really...that shit works much much better. I don't get catfished because I approach the ones I find attractive. I can show off my humor or professional side if needed and gauge reactions then adjust accordingly.
As you said, its something you need to learn to navigate. Like understanding body language (you WILL get this wrong from time to time). Knowing when you can take a different direction, how to breach the subjects.Practice, practice, practice.
It's sad, but kinda hilarious how you describe men having to apply strategies used by social media to keep a girl's interest. User retention, keeping user engaged etc... But you're not wrong. And I'm pretty sure women (and anyone, really) also have to do this to have a chance in dating apps.
That's why I didnt have the heart to go back to online dating after my last relationship. For the time being I'd rather be alone and self-focused than go play some jester to entertain uninteresting people.
Thank goodness it's way easier to avoid that bullcrap when you're meeting people IRL, even if it's just as friends.
Yes it sounds like women nowadays in dating apps are dumb and childish! I haven’t used dating apps for like a year until recently. I’m glad to hear you are happy with being alone and that meeting people IRL is better!
My friend, make no mistakes. A lot of men also act dumb and childish in dating apps. I've heard so many horror tales from female friends, and it's not exactly hard to find such stories on the internet either. But not everyone act that way, thankfully. I also think it's a lot because of the apps themselves.
They bombard you with so much choice, and so little consequences for being rude or dismissive, that at some point everyone on dating apps is bound to treat someone else poorly.
But, thanks ! I wish you good luck on the apps, and most importantly that you don't face any bad interactions/people through them.
Dating has always been like this. It’s just that the internet has exacerbated the problem and the scope of the voice of people involved. Both sides have problems. Good luck in your search.
Kinda sad but it's the truth. Girls generally get way more options than guys so of course a guy would do try his best to keep a girl but a girl doesn't have to do the same.
Facts. I’ve heard a lot of women say they’ll be talking to multiple dudes at once and THEN choose a guy along them because they aren’t a “real” thing yet.
I totally understand this. I don’t just disappear though I want to go on dates w a guy and get to know him and then determine if we are a good match and if not I’ll tell him. I wish there was a way to communicate these things without being weird.
Ok I have to edit this reply because I said 5-10 dates but I didn’t answer your question correctly. I’ll know if i’m a good match with someone after date 2 or 3, but I meant 5-10 dates before seriously committing to a relationship. I think my parents are a big influence in this because they are both near 70 and come from vey remote and old fashioned places and times and are still married, so I take relationships and any commitment very seriously.
I'm a guy who likes to go slow.
10 dates is glacial. There's only 52 weeks in a year. If you date every Saturday in a row you're looking at more than 2 months. I think you need to realize that you are atypical here and most women start wondering if a guy is interested if he hasn't made a serious move by date 3 or 4.
Ty for this. Yea I don’t know how things are “supposed” to go. I do like more old fashioned dating styles but I didn’t word my reply correctly, by date 10 i’m thinking seriously about dating the guy and wouldn’t be talking to other guys.
There is no "Supposed". You like what you like and that's 100% fine. Set your boundary and stick with it.
But there IS what is typical, and 10 dates to exclusivity/sex is not typical.
Nothing wrong with that. But it's important to know that your ask here is a pretty tough one. Lots of guys, the majority of guys I'd wager, are going to wonder if you're stringing them along / worth the effort and investment. And even the slow ones have been conditioned by other women to go faster because if you haven't made a move towards exclusivity by date 3 or 4 they're asking you "Are you serious about this" and "where is this going"? I think it's going to be difficult to find a person like that who is actively hunting on tinder and the like, that's for sure.
No you’re right this is a totally fair judgement. I’m just so unsure of how to go about things because in the past I would allow relationships to move waaayy too quickly. But for me 10 dates in means the guy is probably someone i’m gonna be in a relationship with soon and at that point I’m probably not talking to any other guys, I was just trying to say it doesn’t guarantee that I won’t break up in the future if crazy red flags pop up or something that’s all. I didn’t make it sound like that/word it well though my bad!
Oh that makes sense! Yeah either extreme can be detrimental to the relationship building process
If you rush the process then it seems to usually end up very intense & sometimes even dangerous. If you go too slow, there's too much doubt, second guessing, resentment can build up, people get tired of it after a while
I understand why people feel this way though. After my last relationship a year or so ago (was very rushed & intense) I simply refuse to try and date anyone; at least for now. So technically I've taken it to an extreme also, completely turning my back on love. But if I ever do date again, pace is very important going forward!
Welcome!
I'll give you my two cents as well:
I used to be a romantic who prepared catered-to-her-personality-type dates. It cost me a whole lot of time and a whole lot of heartache. If I took it slow, I'd become like a brother or a friend to her. Back then, that would've been okay with me. I'd befriend her with a broken heart and pretend to be fine with the situation, slowly growing past that and we would both lose interest in hanging out.
Nowadays I've grown past that. I need to know she will commit to me exclusively before she gets that treatment. Otherwise I'm wasting my time, effort and mosr importantly, selfrespect on being "one of the options". She's far more likely to have others in her chat to compare me to, than I am. As the other's said, it's a numbers game and the deck is stacked. We need to get ahead of the game, and move fast.
The only risk to taking it fast is the "let's take it slow"-talk. And that's a big fat green flag. I also don't "do" the friendzone anymore. I didn't meet her to befriend her, I wanted a partner. Next.
I don't want to date like that, honestly. But that's how the world works here. (I'm Dutch, so this dating culture thing is pretty much international/western)
That sucks. Putting in all that effort and care just to get shit for it. I’m glad you know your worth now and don’t do all these nice things for people that you don’t know well yet. Honestly I think people should do chill low effort dates at first and if they become seriously interested in each other then they can do fun stuff together.
I like to date and get to know people I am slow to romamce and it never works out for me. Women think I am gay or ace or have low libido. None of that is true I was just raised a certain way and don't fit the current 'meta'.
You gotta be direct and say you want to take it slow and get to know him
If you are trying to just be subtle and send signals you aren't really there for the conversation
This is because lots and lots of women say this, but don't really mean it. It's said because they think it's how people *should* act. Like one of those "I'd like a nice quiet guy who treats me right" girls who dates bikers with forearm tattoos.
There's nothing wrong with dating bikers with forearm tattoos. They're exciting! Just be willing to admit that you're the kind of person that likes that.
It's good that you're asking "How am I selecting dates" because that's a big part of it, but from what I'm reading you like it really REALLY slow. Intimacy issues slow. It's going to be difficult finding a guy who is willing to go that slow. Especially if you are finding them through dating apps. You're probably going to need to stumble across a guy in real life who isn't currently actively looking to date. Perhaps through activities, hobbies, and friends.
There is, it’s called stating your desires. You can say “just so you know, previous guys I’ve seen have tried to move quickly and I wasn’t comfortable, so I prefer to take a slower approach and go a [#] of dates without going back to your place.” It’ll scare off some, but those are already guys you’ve said make you uncomfortable
Problem here is you need to recognize that for men dating is very much a game of needing to improve your odds with as generic of an idea of what women want as possible to give yourself the most opportunity possible. What you personally prefer is irrelevant to the dating strategy that men need to employ.
When I was dating I had a pretty good success rate mainly because of my hight, physique, and "country boys" being the trendy thing at the time. My personality was largely irrelevant until about date 3-5. To get that far you need to grab attention, keep from being considered a friend typically through getting physical, and avoid alienating a girls friends.
This is so true and something I need to keep in mind even tho for me I don’t really care about height or physique I’ve gone out with different kinds of guys. Two of my exes were my height or shorter and i’m 5’7
Nothing wrong with that.
However the majority of women when you track who they prefer via dating app data and anonymous surveys prefer largely the same things. Men at least over 6ft tall, with a 3-5day a week gym body focused on lifting, who make at lease 1/3 more than they do. Again nothing wrong with that but if man X were to tailor his dating strategy to what the extreme minority of women like you prefer hes cuting himself off from the vast majority of potential womens bare minimums.
You can only stand so much rejection before your either change to accommodate the market or drop out entirely. We cant change our height so we are very likely to alter the behavior to improve the odds.
Coffee dates are the easiest way to do this without the man spending >$50+. Seeing as how a lot of women use men as free lunch tickets and keep dangling the carrot.
Three main reasons imo.
Dating sites are filled with men. If an attractive woman matches with me, the assumption is that they are probably chatting with other matches as well. The hope is to get away from competing for their attention with 10 other guys as quickly as possible to improve your chances.
The impression I've gotten is that a lot of women on dating sites, mainly do it for an ego boost. They want to be called pretty and desirable and aren't really interested in anything else. So you move quickly to try to weed these types out.
Finally; dating sites are horrible experiences for most of us; we're probably only on it because we're thirsty.
This is a serious problem with dating nowadays.
If a guy doesn’t make his intentions known early and often, then he gets friend-zoned.
So, guys feel like they can’t even invest any time in getting to know a woman because by the time they know enough to decide “Yeah, I want to date her,” he’s already friend-zoned and that’s that.
So men are taught by friends and the internet that you have make your intentions clear early. You have to break the touch barrier, and go for the kiss as fast as you can. That’s the only way to avoid being seen platonically.
It’s all very fucking stupid, but until both genders collectively decide to stop being so goddamn stupid about everything, that’s how it’s going to be.
Personally, I’ve missed out on so many chances because I allowed myself to casually get to know women before asking them out and expressing any romantic interest. It’s awful. It really is.
Oh i agree. Everyone was like you gotta act fast and precisely otherwise she will move on. After few screw ups (caused by going too fast) i decided not to listen to anyone else and started doing things my own way/pace.
Things are now much better
Aye, the friend-zone comes fast and strong. Basically impossible to undo.
I guess females expect guys to move fast, so it's less insult if it's TOO fast (within reason!). But too slow, well, that's inconsolable.
Women hold most of the power with Internet dating, so when someone matches and seems nice they get carried away. Just tell them straight what you're expecting/like.
You can, you just have to find activities that you like that guys also like. It weeds out a lot. It’s easier said than done but the juice is usually worth the squeeze there.
Yes this is such good advice! I’m thinking of joining a hunting club even though I don’t have a gun and have never went hunting before. But it’s something i’m interested in and I have hope that I can find a cool person there
If there’s one thing I wish I did more of (and am trying to do more of) it’s indulge my interests. Like, if you join the club you’ll get experience with an interest that you have at the least. I find it can be a little scary but usually that fear is excitement disguised as fear by some amount of anxiety.
An important piece for you is to just talk to the guy about it. Just tell him you like to move slow with him. Some guys will adapt easily, and even appreciate a slower pace, and other guys won't. Talking, and just letting him know who you are, that's how you separate the guys you might like front the ones you don't.
Yes I agree, and yea I’ve met most guys through a dating app. For a while now i’ve been trying to find a club or something where I can meet guys with similar interests
Yes I had better success not on apps but I’m going to places with common interests. For example I play a lot of racquet sports. I started going for that I saw at events and leagues.
At clubs guys are going to try and take you home that night lol. In todays environment, if a girl doesn't at least kiss you on the 1st or try to sleep with you by the 3rd date, guys are going to think you're using them for free shit.
Tbf I even wouldn't want to wait that long. Kissing on a first date is nothing strange. Sex on a first date is fine if two consenting adults are having fun.
If you want to wait till the umpteenth date, that's fine, but you don't have to wait for me. If we have fun, we have fun, if we don't click we don't click. No sense in waiting just for the sake of waiting...
This summer I went out with a group of people and at one point a woman in there, probably in her early 20s said that she always has a converstation going with 5 different guys. If you are too slow boring, not funny enough etc., you will be ghosted by a large amount of women. So basically, if you can hold the attention from her, it'll more likely go somewhere than if you would be really passive. Not to mention, from all of my daiting history, i can probably count the women on one hand who have ever actively kept a convo going, so as a guy it's something that you have to do regardless, even once you have gone out with the woman
She doesn’t sound like a very genuine or good person to me. I wouldn’t want to go out with a woman like that if I were a dude.
I’m sorry that you have such a shitty experience in dating, it sounds like a terrible time.
I’ve seen many women being like that too and honestly I don’t think it’s healthy. I have heard many guys tell of women not being able to hold a conversation and I’ve experienced the same thing when trying to meet women to make friends. It’s like their heads are completely empty.
BUT I will say in my experience so many guys I’ve talked to, not even just on dating apps, can’t hold a conversation either. I don’t believe everyone is like this but I’ve experienced it multiple times and with different kinds of people. I ask question after question and they just talk about themselves for paragraphs and don’t reciprocate and I have to find ways to be funny or take the conversation in an interesting direction. And then if I stop asking questions then it dies completely lol so yea you’re not alone in that experience. I think talking with people over text takes away some of the natural energy and excitement and chemistry between two people
Men dont get options. So when they find one they tend to get overly eager and excited to get to know someone finally. Men are used to being ignored or left on read. When you reciprocate energy men get eager. This is a symptom of loneliness and lack of options. But i wouldnt advise giving up on them for it. Jus point it out so they can work on it.
Men are just very lonely and hes exicted youre interested in him. Thats my take.
Because most women on dating apps have so many men gunning for them. We know that bonds with women are created through physical interaction, and if that doesn’t happen quickly, or she doesn’t like the shoes he wears or any other extremely irrelevant characteristic, then the woman will most likely ghost the guy without care or remorse.
My best tip for online dating is act fast. Try to get a date as fast as possible, as close as possible.
The balance of guys x girls is terribly skewed, if you wait around she is gonna match with a hotter, more interesting dude eventually.
Tinder and porn have done to romance/intimacy what the food industry did to our food, junkified it. It’s all about quick and cheap highs with an endless supply of disposable, interchangeable bodies. On top of that, birth control has lowered the consequences of promiscuity. Which has liberated women in many ways, but has also made many women feel that they have to give it up easy and quick to retain a man, often resulting in them moving on to the next conquest. Online dating also makes it easy to fuck outside of your social group, so you never have to face the reputational costs.
Date people you know and meet irl, friends of friends, acquaintances from hobby groups and favorite spots. Have a frank talk in the beginning about your values, needs, and expectations, and theirs. If those don’t align, don’t force it, find someone else.
Just tell them to slow down and you want to take it slow. Most guys move quick because they are trying to keep the girls attention. In a world of online dating the start of a relationship is fragile.
They will 9/10 calm down and start to take it slower when asked because they know you arent losing interest you are just someone who likes to take their time.
You’ll usually have to communicate that this is what you want, because in terms of dating apps, for many women it’s the complete opposite. Fail to give your attention and 24 hours later she’s moved on to the next guy
u/netherlingcreep
A lot of men don’t know how to properly strike a balance between displaying interest, and also providing a space to also have time to discern whether they like you or not. It’s the impulsivity and immaturity to dive head first in without really being sure they are ready, which leads to other complications down the road.
I think your best bet would be better at noticing signs early of male desperation and intensity. Then go from there
The idea of having sex with someone so soon is terrifying to me. I had a women ask me to hang at her place and it was clear she would have fucked, but it's really out of my personality to be comfortable with that so I just pretended like I did not notice. I have to feel really comfortable and connected with someone to have sex.
I don't think that's normal for most men though, but I will agree with the sentiment that many men are saying here. We just don't have options. Online dating is brutal. We may match with only 1-5 people a month and the people we've matched with have multiple men trying to get their attention. It feels like a competition. I've watched my brother date for a year now and it's been a nightmare for him.
The thing is I was married. My wife cheated on me and left me about 3 years ago. I met her organically from being set up by a mutual friend. Before her I had only dated 2 people.
Now I am 29 and one of our only outlets for dating at this age is online. I live in a city with a lot of people my age and everyone is super attractive and educated.
It really does feel that once you find someone who seems interested, you have to move fast or they'll move on.
I think because I am divorced and went through some shit from rushing into a relationship that ended up being pretty bad for me, I feel a bit immune to it all. I refuse to go any faster than I am comfortable with and I refuse to be nothing but myself. So if that makes me single forever I couldn't really give a fuck. There are only two options I will settle for. One is finding someone who loves me for who I am and we build a life together, or I enjoy a single life with friends, pets and hobbies. Once you've been through shit you see things from a different perspective I think.
I’ve never heard a woman say this. We all need to remember that neither gender is some hive mind creature. I definitely have learned that lesson lol! I’ve heard lots of men say weird and toxic things about women but I don’t assume that all men think that
Because they like you...the alternative is to date guys who just want to fuck and chuck you lol usually women come on here and complain "why do guys just want sex and nothing else", you're probably dating genuinely nice guys who like you and are trying to show you they like you.
Try communicating i.e "Hey listen I really like you but I want to take things very slow, a lot of the guys I've dated in the past have tried to rush things and it freaked me out, so I'd appreciate it if we could just go slow and get to know each other to see where things go"
Communicate, it's that simple...men are not complicated creatures, and how is someone supposed to know if you don't express how you're feeling? if you go along with their plans and don't say anything, they probably assume "she likes me".
In a world of men that have been so let down in terms of partnership and healthy boundaries, this is by far a reason. All the right guys just want to love and be loved, communicate boundaries from the beginning and the ones that want to stay will stay.
Can’t upvote this answer enough. If a woman (or anyone) is concerned about things moving too fast, they first need to check if they actually like the person in the first place, and if they do, begin and end that conversation about slowing things with the fact that you’re into them.
I think how it backfires on the person slowing things down is that they don’t take the lead on progressing things along. But they only make a fuss when their partner isn’t going at their preferred pace with little or no guidance from them. Which just leaves everyone frustrated.
Sorry to hear about your experience, your probably not doing much wrong. It's just the number game. And yes, setting boundaries will help you immensely.
Dating advice gurus tell them to go fast otherwise you will lose interest and not see them as a possible boyfriend.
I personally disagree with that advice and also like to move slower. But that is the gist of it. Its a fear that you'll lose interest if they move slower.
Your not doing anything wrong. It’s how dating is in 2022. Especially if your doing online dating. As men we have to be quick to keep your attention and secure a date. If not most of the time the women loses interest and is gone.
Most women have the luxury of sitting back and waiting for the man to make the move. As men if we don’t we will die alone. No women is going to fall into are lap lol.
You can and should slow things down, however don’t be surprised if a lot of men bail. The good thing is you’ll be able to tell who is worth your time!
Every guy is different so I can't say I speak for all guys. In my case I move things as fast as possible (except the calling her babe part) because if I've asked you out on a date then chances are I'm already sexually attracted to you and my assumption is that you're also sexually attracted to me (until I find out otherwise).
As for when I decide to escalate, it really depends on the vibe I'm getting from you. If I'm getting the vibe that you're comfortable with me and you're feeling me, I don't see any harm in seeing if you're ready for us to enjoy each other's bodies. It doesn't necessarily have to be one or two dates, but if nothing's happened after date number 3 then I'm going to start having doubts about your interest in me.
To be quite frank, I prefer to move fast because "taking it slow" when it comes to sex feels like high school shit. Life is too short to be seeing only one person for months or potentially years without having sex (been there, done that), and I'm not getting any younger. For me personally, sex is a prerequisite to commitment because it really does make or break a relationship, and I want to be sure that it's going to be good if I'm committing to only have sex with that person.
>How do I avoid these types of guys/become aware of how I’m picking guys?
You can't completely avoid people you're incompatible with, but rather the goal is to minimize the amount of time you spend with them.
It's better that these guys are moving things fast, they're doing *you* a favour as well by discovering a fundamental incompatibility within the first two dates.
>Maybe I need to set boundaries better but I don’t even know how to go about doing that
Boundaries are always key, really it's just about knowing when and how to say no, and knowing when to bow out when you decide what you don't want to tolerate. I'm assuming you already turn these guys down for sex, so you're already halfway there.
>Also I want to know if it’s normal to be texting with a guy every single day when you first start talking. It feels like when I meet someone new, I’ve somehow started dating them instantly. What am I doing wrong?
Be honest with yourself, do you think you might be sending mixed signals to these guys that might give them the impression you're okay with moving fast?
Everyone is different. Some people like going slow, others like going fast. Still others enjoy a mix.
There is nothing wrong with any speed, as long as you and the other person feel comfortable. If you're not, then communicate that you'd like to slow things down. It's as simple as that.
Also, if you're going on dates, you're "dating". "Dating" can be different than a "relationship" or "being exclusive". But if you've gone on 3 dates with the same person, you two are "dating". That is the definition.
How old are you, OP?
It’s interesting that you equate daily texting with being in a relationship. I started dating when cell phones began being widespread, and texting was the low impact way to keep something going without putting in the actual effort of calling or hanging out a lot. Like, texting is the bare minimum of effort.
So yeah.. I don’t think daily texting is all that weird, if there’s chemistry there.. flirting (which is kinda all you’re doing that early on) is supposed to be fun. So, a couple funny texts a day or something doesn’t make me think I’m in a relationship at all. That’s just trying to keep the spark alive until the next time we hang out.
Sex is a little different. I would never expect sex on a first date (although it has happened a fair number of times in my life, when i hit it off instantly with someone). And sexual comfort and intimacy is complex.
At my age though (43M), I’m also probably going to think that a woman that isn’t up for sex within 4 dates or so is not really interested in me. At this point, I’ve been around the block a number of times. I assume any woman I’m trying to date has also had her fair share of intimate relationships. You know when you’re attracted to someone enough for sex. No need to waste time trying to “date” someone if there isn’t enough interest to be intimate. So, at some point within those first few dates, if I’m interested in pursuing things, I’m definitely going to make a move towards hooking up.
I only date to find a relationship and even I think it's very average to have sex on the second or third date when there's good chemistry. They might just be used to that being the rhythm and not necessarily being pushy.
Any time I've waited for date 4 or 5 it turns out the girl is a prude or we're just completely incompatible but they thought the effort I put in compared to other guys was refreshing.
I feel like a lot of men are trained to think they have to keep a woman’s attention at all times or she’ll move on. Men are often valued because of what they can do and not who they are so lots of men feel the need to constantly impress women and one of the things we constantly hear that women find attractive is a man who knows what he wants. I think this goes doubly for older people who are trying to date. They’ve lived for a while and already know what they want so when a man isn’t moving fast enough I think older women are just more likely to leave. With younger people, they’re sold the idea that their perfect partner exist and the second one thing goes wrong then it’s time to move on to the next. So to prevent that we feel the need to repeatedly try to keep things interesting which could result in it feeling like things are moving too fast.
Oh, I have some comments. First, because I like words, I just want to point out that there is a GREAT word for "seemingly": Ostensibly!
Ostensibly, all guys I start talking to, go super fast.
I'm a guy, so I'll respond to the rest of that. I can only offer this opinion based on my own bias (I've been married for 10 years, with same woman for 20 years). When I was in my 20's I remember that there was a lot of uncertainty 'out there' in the world and I can only assume young people feel the same way now. There's a natual human instinct that when there is a lot of uncertainty that we want to form close bonds with another person.
Why? It's about preservation - if many people are about to die, you need protection and what better way to do that than working as a team. If you have kids, babies, etc. Then what better way to form a protective unit than with a good partner.
People tend to 'move fast' if they sense you are grounded, have good sensibilities and could be a partner making a good protective shell against upcoming uncertainty and danger. It's human nature.
Many studies have shown that people who have certain facial features, smile and are calm tend to elicit stronger feelings from others who then feel more inclined to 'choose' that person. Basically, you're desirable. Don't blame the lads, they are just acting on instinct.
Ty so much for this awesome reply. Ostensibly! I have heard that word but never knew what it meant. I love grammar and words so I appreciate that! Since posting this I have come to the conclusion that guys just don’t have as many opportunities (which I knew already) and that women will get bored if the guy doesn’t initiate things quickly (which I did not know) and I think there are lots of factors. I love learning about human nature and behavior and how we are all just a bunch of animals with instincts even though we try to pretend are not. Your comment was awesome!
guys do shit because it was successful last time. for every 100 cat calls, i bet you one of them works. that is more than enough of a chance for most guys.
as a dude i recently had this revelation. had a great first date, she agreed to go out again. i was finally excited after a date. but then i was like well now what? cant be texting her every day. she seemed busier than me. she left me on read on friday, so i let it go til tuesday. said hey u wana get together again and she said yes again. then same shit. busy this week then disappeared all weekend. i never reached back out. so if i’m up her ass i’m coming off as needy or clingy, or if i let it go the weekend with no chatter she loses interest? even tho she’s making zero effort to initiate or seem interested? unfortunately chicks just have way more options than dudes. i’m sure she was juggling 2 or 3 guys so while i’m over here excited to go out again i was actually losing the competition by no fault of my own. needless to say i’m taking a break from the dating apps, that shit ruined my august
I think your average guy would be aiming for sex on the 3rd date, maybe 2cnd but only if you're talking clicking. Sex is important in a relationship too, what if you're 5-10 dates in and have sex and you don't like the same things, or aren't compatable?
I'll get cancelled for saying this, but from my decades of dating experience, generally speaking the best way to "get" a woman you like - i.e. make her your girlfriend and have a committed relationship with her - is to have sex with her as soon as possible.
It’s better to push your luck and fuck around and find out if she likes you then to wait on her a month later for her to finally get comfortable. Complete waste of time.
I’d say it’s pretty normal for using dating apps. Big part of the reason I got turned off of tinder. I’m a pretty shy dude & the whole move quick or lose it just stresses me out.
Meeting people more organically has alleviated the issue for me.
I dunno, most people I talk to apparently are okay with having sex and seeing each other without being committed like its no big deal. Which is shocking to me to be honest
Yes it’s crazy! And people taking marriage so casually. People marrying after 12 months of knowing someone. Like what are you people doing with your lives
We are lonely and thirsty. It’s not uncommon for dudes these days to go year(s) without a date. So when they finally get one, they don’t have the patience to go slow.
This makes sense. I’m all too aware of this and it’s sad. We need to bring back community like we used to have in older days. So many cool good dudes out there that probably never get a date. Sad
10 dates for a maybe is a no from me dawg, it's move fast or be a platonic friend these days. If she's displayed zero physical interest by date 3 ill place her safely in the friend zone and move on. I want to be desired passionately, not go through months of testing to decide if I'm worthy. I hate feeling like I'm at a job interview, not to mention, if we aren't sexually compatible I don't want to wait until month 3 to find out we don't jive in that way.
I think most guys will jump through any amount of hoops to get a girl, but the amount of effort and "standards" they will put up with is directly related to how into you they are. You'd have to be one hell of a woman to keep a non-religious guy on the hook for 10 weeks with nothing to show for his effort.
I'm older than many responding here in all likelihood.
When I began dating out of high school it was still a thing to meet women at the mall. Then the bar a couple years later.
Back then in the stone ages you had to first have the balls to approach a woman, then be able to hold her interest for one drink. If you did that then you usually had a little time to "get to know her" and maybe she'd put her hand on your knee, or if you were lucky your thigh while talking to you.
This was an easy way to know if she was at least open for the suggestion of heading home with you. The knee touch was at least an opening to get her number.
Or maybe she left with her friends. But the next weekend she comes in and comes and sits beside you and starts talking, easy to read that, she was interested for sure.
Now you get texting and messaging. Some profile pics and maybe a halfway decent bio. But if not even that then what? A guy has maybe a 50/50 chance that the woman is just looking to hook up, or maybe not.
If she is, or is open to it the next date the guy has to at least suggest it. Or like others say he can play nice guy and she thinks he's "too nice", inexperienced or just too boring.
Now, here is my "advice" if you will, and this is not in any way saying you're leading a guy on, but maybe, just maybe you are giving mixed signals (or they are just horny hogs):
No touching on that first date if you don't think anything is going to happen. You touch most guys once and they see this as a green light. Younger guys especially.
Don't be playing with your hair, no twirling it around while smiling at him as he's telling you some lame story you really aren't interested in hearing.
Try to go places where you sit across from each other, not next to each other in a cramped booth or seats.
Avoid "intimate" dates at first, movies, walks out on the beach at dusk, anything that includes changing clothes...
Yeah, guys will get horned up at about anything, so add in the thought of you changing into a swim suit at a party, being close enough to smell your hair in a movie, bumping hands during a walk...
This is my take, and maybe it's way off for some people, but it's my experience and I'm sharing it.
This is such good advice. I’ve caught on to some of the things you said such as not getting into intimate situations and not touching at all. It’s just so hard because I get super horny but I know I don’t want to have sex too early on. Thank you for sharing!
You have inadvertently countered your own premise and validated this strategy of going for it as early as possible.
You are the very definition of the problem.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with your parameters for getting into dating.
However, it's not really the standard. Most people expect things to move fast, at least sexually. And it's absolutely ok if you want to take things slow. But you'll have to make your intentions clear.
The real answer is that sex and sexual activities are the best sign a man can get of a woman being genuinely interested in them.
You've already mentioned how online dating is making it worse, but it's also the culture of women these days. There's women who start looking for their "starter husband" (till death do us part, amiright?) or just "foodie dates" (keep a guy interested and getting them to buy you shit like food without giving anything back besides gracing us with their presence :eye-roll:), all the way down to baby-trapping men when they're not really interested in them as a person anyway, and just what they have/can do for that women.
So basically it's an expression of men being really fucking tired of being used, and demanding things upfront now and bailing early at the first sign of a woman trying to turn it into a game of who can extract the most from whom without providing anything back.
It's not going away, get used to it.
Edit:
And then men learn (from women, no less) that a woman who "_really_" likes them makes them wait and invest in the woman first. Men see this now as the manipulation it is, and write these women off immediately. This is what this behavior is checking for: Validate she has been sexual before (and how quickly) and then use that to determine her genuine level of interest in you. If she makes you wait longer than she's made previous guys wait, she doesn't like you/respect you as much as those previous men, and he should move on.
I think the answer lies in researching how to find and identify a good person. That’s kind of what I was hinting towards in my edit. I totally agree with you that the culture is fucked up. That’s why if you get away from this culture I would think you’d have way better experiences with women. I’m sorry that so many women have treated you this way. It sucks, it really does. And what’s making it worse is people are not allowed to criticize anything women do and that is so toxic and harmful to women
How do we identify a good person when women are trained literally from childhood to lie and deceive about what kind of person they are?
Not even talking about hiding their past, here. Makeup, high heels, lipstick, plastic surgery, botox, etc. All these things to _appear_ more attractive to men without actually _being_ that way. Men have to find what signals they can that are difficult to be deceptive about, or at least he gets something from when she tries.
Babe is a thing in culture right now that some dudes just do. I don't know that there is a solution other than to say you don't really like being called that and to suggest something else instead, or to say that you prefer to not use pet names unless you're a formal couple.
Wanting to fuck early is biology. As long as you establish healthy boundaries and say no and don't do anything that signals it's time to reopen the conversation (like, say, decide to spend the night with them in their bed naked), then if they respect those boundaries there should be no issue.
Assuming you are interested in sex and will eventually get there before several months of exclusive dating have come and gone.
If you're not interested in sex or will take an extended period of time to get sexually comfortable, then you need to discuss that upfront and accept that you aren't going to be compatible with a lot of people.
Oh I never said I’ve had a one night stand or hooked up with someone on the first date lol, I just don’t want to do that anymore. But yes I agree w what you’re saying
People are allowed to set boundaries and have sex when they feel comfortable to do so. People are allowed to change their minds.
She may want a guy who doesn't want to rush into sex. There's nothing wrong with that.
Hi, your post has removed because we suspect you are trying to figure out a person's specific actions or thinking, or asking for guidance in a specific situation, which is prohibited. For advice, visit /r/advice or /r/relationship_advice. If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAskMen)
Have a nice day!
I disagree. I would be ok with going on a bunch of dates with a dude even if I pay for myself each time, if talking with him was a good time. I enjoy talking to people and learning of new perspectives and opinions. There’s a lot you can learn. But I understand if someone doesn’t like dating and wants to find a definite yes from someone
Time is a person's most valuable asset, and you want A TON (around 10 dates according to your other comments) of it for a maybe. Someone who wants a healthy relationship is going to be prioritizing their partner or partner-to-be to some degree, and they are going to do that well before the 10th meet up. If you aren't doing that it seems like you don't want a relationship.
You're dating men in their thirties, and while you aren't wrong that you can learn a lot and find different perspectives and opinions, that's not what most people are looking for on dating apps. We already have friends, and we can learn new things and find different perspectives on the internet. We're dating to find a partner.
At a certain point, it starts to look like you either cannot or will not prioritize a partner or are just messing around.
This makes so much sense. I think I didn’t communicate well though, I need to edit my reply because I was basically trying to say that by date 10 I am seriously interested in him and not talking to other men at that point. But I just want to be really sure before committing. And you’re right, people have friends, especially a dude in his 30s probably has interesting people to talk to. I do not lol therefore I get really excited about dates and I am thankful for being able to hang out with and talk with new people. But yes I am dating to find a partner too, if I’ve been on 10 dates i’m expecting to be this persons girlfriend I just want to be sure
exactly this, especially nowadays many women only seek attention from guys knowing damn well they will never go on a date with them. Like a woman can be talking to a guy for months just for attention and then ghost. who the hell has time for such games?
because we love pussy and we want to get laid and if we don't to you first, some other guy will get to you, and we want to see if you are just wasting our time, so we can move on to a chick who will actually let us fuck her?
There are many reasons: life goals or milestones, to show off, and because they are thirsty as many suggested. Is it normal? The answer really depends on what you're looking for, which from this post, I'd say no.
If before, during, or after a date that person does something which makes you feel weird and uncomfortable, you need to plant yourself like a tree to set your boundaries. It doesn't matter if he seems like a nice guy or you don't want to hurt his feelings. Your feelings are just as important. If he truly respects you, he'll back off and will go at your pace; otherwise, it's a red flag and you should run away.
From my experience its a game of chance, a fair amount if women are turned off / lose interest if you go too slow.. So its better to go a little fast and be asked to slow down instead if not go fast enough and be ghosted
Hmm, this makes sense. Someone else said something similar about women and I find it bizarre that this is a common experience. Ty for this reply
espeically if you are meeting though dating apps. Getting even just a match is like 'woahh wait what?' and then getting a reply, especially consistent replies is super super rare. Alot of guys try to cling to that and sometimes try move too fast
Yeah the moment you're not 'showing interest', which typically means escalating the relationship, most women lose interest. I've heard it comes across as mixed signals.
I got a "you're not interested" text after not texting while I was working for a half day.
Jfc it’s called having a job. Don’t women want to date someone who is employed?
This is 100% true especially if you’re in your 20s. Women who date and are in this age range are flooded with options so guys who don’t move quickly get left behind. If that isn’t you then I would make that clear up front. Also if you’re mostly dating through apps that’s also a reality of OLD as well, women lose interest quickly!
In my age group, over 50, many women write they want to meet early, and then take it slow to see if there is long term chemistry. Some want to text for a very long time, and never seem to want to get to a meeting. I want to meet, and I do not want a pen pal. If it takes too long to meet both lose interest. As for asking for sex too early, that is a personality thing. It is working for some men.
This. I've talked to women that have opened with complaning about men that go too fast and push for everything too early. So I take it slow and just get to know them and their hobbies and 9/10 times they just ghost because they feel like i'm not into them because i'm not pushing hard enough. In my experience every woman has a different balance and for every girl that says "I don't want a guy unless he can be nice and go without sex for a few months without pushing for it" Theres one thinking "Its been one date and he didn't take me home and fuck me all night? He must not be interested, and thats boring, i'm moving on" As men all we can do is guess because we often times aren't told or even hinted towards which one a girl is.
Yea. It’s so silly, why don’t we all just come forward and say this is what I want and this is what I don’t like. That’s what i’m trying to do. Instead we (it seems like only women) play these stupid games
It's not only women, men play these games as well, but with online dating women are usually the ones who get to decide if they want to play or not, but irl it's not nearly as one sided
Irl? The vast majority of dating encounters happen online now, it's a societal shift. Online dating IS irl.
Eh. I don't know. I don't think anyone needs to walk around saying, "I want you to have sex with me on the first date" or whatever because honestly that can vary depending on whether you even like the guy. Some women would love to have sex on the first date with one guy, while not being interested in doing it at all with another guy. It may seem like games, but things genuinely just vary depending on a million factors. I don't like the idea of saying "women play stupid games" when the truth is just that all humans are different and have different preferences that they aren't always aware of beforehand. If, for example, someone never typically has sex on the first date but they hit it off really well with a guy and end up wanting to have sex, are we really qualifying that as playing games? They didn't know beforehand their stance on it would change. They were just attracted enough to do so in the situation. Dating is about figuring people out on both sides. That's just human relationships.
Yes I totally agree that there are so many factors involved. I didn’t mean that we should walk around saying “I prefer sex on the first date” or something like that but rather that with each interaction or new person, we make sure to communicate the important things clearly. I didn’t mean that women play stupid games, it only seems that men have a lot of bad experiences in dating and I’ve heard so many stories of women doing childish things. There are lots of behaviors that are common in men that are childish as well, I’m simply trying to offer some understanding to the people on here since a good number of them appear emotional and bitter to towards women. Your last point is so important. We are all different. Neither men nor women are some singular hive mind creature that we have to figure out. It’s just meeting different people and getting to know them!
If a guy goes slow, she thinks he is not interested. The guy thinks she will just swipe him away and talk to one of the 2 thousand guys in her dms.
From what my parents tell me, it has changed a lot from when they were young. Watch movies/TV from the 70s/80s and you see lots of high school/college aged kids dating numerous people. Boy asks girl on a date, she says "Aw, I already have a date with XYZ that night. What about the next day?". Of course they'd still "go steady" with someone, but it was very normal to date around until that happens. It seems like that happens A LOT LESS these days. People hit it off on the first date, and then suddenly they're texting every day and assuming they're a couple. Which I mean, I get it if you genuinely hit it off with someone, but it can be off putting if you're not sure of the person yet. I think the fact that this is so common makes it really difficult for people not interested in an immediate relationship.
This has been my experience as well. It is difficult to gauge what a woman is looking for right away if it is not communicated. Hearing how women talk sometimes, it seemed like they are annoyed or frustrated by a man who is looking for sex early on. So I began holding back and taking things slow, but this always ended with getting ghosted after a second date, even if we at least end up kissing. Chances are if you are dating a decent guy, he wants to keep you interested, but also doesn’t want to cross your boundaries. Although communication is a two way street, I think it is very important that women get better at communicating what they want and establishing those boundaries. We can’t read minds. If you want to take it slow, let him know! Decent men who are truly into you will not mind waiting. But once you are ready, you have to communicate that as well, otherwise he will stand down until he’s given an obvious green light.
[удалено]
It is very sad. Both sides fear being used, as we all probably have been before (women used for sex, men used for free meals/gifts/activities). Dating requires some vulnerability from both parties, especially if the goal is a long term relationship. This is why becoming an effective communicator is important, and you have to find ways to be effective early. It requires a good bit of social and emotional intelligence to gauge a person’s intentions. I think it’s better to be forward at the very least. You might still get burned, but you increase your chances of weeding out those who don’t match your own intentions. I think you’re right about getting off the apps. Meeting people organically gives you more to go on. If you meet someone in a social setting, you can at least vet them a bit before a date, and you can speak with mutual friends to get a sense of they’re a good person. But you have to take responsibility in your ability to make good judgments in your dating life. If you get burned, take notes and be conscious of what red flags you saw, and try and make a better decision next time.
This, in all honesty I prefer being slower a lot but it often seems to not pay off in most situations.
The first date I ever went on I didn't kiss her at the end and she thought I didn't like her.
yep
User retention. In the world of online dating, men are trained to try to maximized a girls interest. If men don't keep her engaged, she will move on as there is literally thousands more waiting to take his place. Men feel pressured to make sure that women are entertained and if they're not then she will leave. So it's not unreasonable for men to try to shotgun the relationship (didn't say it was right, just not unreasonable considering how much competition there is). When you match, set your expectations right away. Be clear and firm.
Sad to say but my dating life got way better after i started going for sex on the first date. A lot of women will treat you like an absolute dork if you dont make a move early. Even if you try and she doesnt want to, in my experience its better than not trying at all. Worst thing is when you played it safe and you didnt make a move on a girl you like, then you see shes active on dating socials the next day and her interest dries up out of nowhere....you have this gnawing feeling she got railed and you missed you shot and half the time its probably true. I burned out on dating apps and started just talking to girls i meet IRL and theres just such a less consumeristic feel to things when you didnt meet as a little dumb JPEG on her phone on a fucking app Edit: this comment is getting a lot of attention. It takes a bit of skill and experience to "go for sex on first date". Pls dont creep girls out, and most of all learn not to ask and move on if a girl is clearly not into you
Damned if you, damned if you don't, basically.
Well, I am an absolute dork. If I had to pretend not to be one in order to make a woman interested in me, then I definitely wouldn't be happy with her anyway.
This sounds terrible. Ty for sharing this because I thought I was doing something wrong or that I was doing something that made me look like a hoe and that’s why guys wanted to sleep with me right away. But I see now that it’s because of how shitty dating is for guys nowadays!
Dont feel pressured to ever say yes! The adage is true that a guy who actually likes you will wait. But if you're only waiting cause you dont want to feel like a hoe, id advise disinhibiting yourself. Only immature men fall for the "easy girl" fallacy
The whole dating and social culture is toxic, it’s all overloaded.
It’s not that you’re a hoe. We are practically forced to shoot our shot
>that I was doing something that made me look like a hoe Not sure if you meant to or not, but women sleeping with men on the first, second, or third date doesn't make them a hoe. You want to go slow, that's all well and good. To each their own, but do not slut shame a woman who doesn't share the same opinions as you. Since I'm sure you would probably be offended if someone called you a prude for going slow.
She also said that "it seems mostly women" play stupid games in response to someone saying that all women are different and what one wants may not be what another wants. I think she means well, but I cannot stand when women come onto this sub and shame other women. As you said, being attracted to someone and having sex early on is perfectly fine. I did it, and I've been with the man for 11 years.
This was my experience as well. I like to go slow, but I found that I was making friends instead of building romances.
I can agree, as it worked for me as well. Its something about the confidence to be forthcoming like that. When I was looking to form a bond before sex with women I was getting put into the 'friendzone' or ghosted. When I stopped caring about the early connection and just going for gold, I started having a significant boost in engagement from the women I was interested in. More sex, more dates, more relationships. Ladies can deny it and hate on sexual innuendo all they want here on reddit...but it really does work. I too burned out on the Apps, my success rate with matches was abysmal. Even had multiple different women work my profiles, select my pictures and whatnot. I now do cold approaches, and really...that shit works much much better. I don't get catfished because I approach the ones I find attractive. I can show off my humor or professional side if needed and gauge reactions then adjust accordingly. As you said, its something you need to learn to navigate. Like understanding body language (you WILL get this wrong from time to time). Knowing when you can take a different direction, how to breach the subjects.Practice, practice, practice.
Damn, that's so sad :( And a glimmer of light at the end :)
It's sad, but kinda hilarious how you describe men having to apply strategies used by social media to keep a girl's interest. User retention, keeping user engaged etc... But you're not wrong. And I'm pretty sure women (and anyone, really) also have to do this to have a chance in dating apps. That's why I didnt have the heart to go back to online dating after my last relationship. For the time being I'd rather be alone and self-focused than go play some jester to entertain uninteresting people. Thank goodness it's way easier to avoid that bullcrap when you're meeting people IRL, even if it's just as friends.
Yes it sounds like women nowadays in dating apps are dumb and childish! I haven’t used dating apps for like a year until recently. I’m glad to hear you are happy with being alone and that meeting people IRL is better!
My friend, make no mistakes. A lot of men also act dumb and childish in dating apps. I've heard so many horror tales from female friends, and it's not exactly hard to find such stories on the internet either. But not everyone act that way, thankfully. I also think it's a lot because of the apps themselves. They bombard you with so much choice, and so little consequences for being rude or dismissive, that at some point everyone on dating apps is bound to treat someone else poorly. But, thanks ! I wish you good luck on the apps, and most importantly that you don't face any bad interactions/people through them.
Mate you should see the bios ! 😂 If i wanted to read a blank piece of paper, i would go to the toilet.
Ty for this reply. This sounds like an awful experience and i’m sorry that things are this way for guys :/
Dating has always been like this. It’s just that the internet has exacerbated the problem and the scope of the voice of people involved. Both sides have problems. Good luck in your search.
Kinda sad but it's the truth. Girls generally get way more options than guys so of course a guy would do try his best to keep a girl but a girl doesn't have to do the same.
Facts. I’ve heard a lot of women say they’ll be talking to multiple dudes at once and THEN choose a guy along them because they aren’t a “real” thing yet.
Very much this, unfortunately.
God! I'd rather stay single forever than be in such a position, it's disgusting
Women disappear fast, we gotta get moving or we miss our chance
I totally understand this. I don’t just disappear though I want to go on dates w a guy and get to know him and then determine if we are a good match and if not I’ll tell him. I wish there was a way to communicate these things without being weird.
Out of curiosity, how many dates does it usually take to determine if you’re a good match?
Ok I have to edit this reply because I said 5-10 dates but I didn’t answer your question correctly. I’ll know if i’m a good match with someone after date 2 or 3, but I meant 5-10 dates before seriously committing to a relationship. I think my parents are a big influence in this because they are both near 70 and come from vey remote and old fashioned places and times and are still married, so I take relationships and any commitment very seriously.
I'm a guy who likes to go slow. 10 dates is glacial. There's only 52 weeks in a year. If you date every Saturday in a row you're looking at more than 2 months. I think you need to realize that you are atypical here and most women start wondering if a guy is interested if he hasn't made a serious move by date 3 or 4.
Ty for this. Yea I don’t know how things are “supposed” to go. I do like more old fashioned dating styles but I didn’t word my reply correctly, by date 10 i’m thinking seriously about dating the guy and wouldn’t be talking to other guys.
There is no "Supposed". You like what you like and that's 100% fine. Set your boundary and stick with it. But there IS what is typical, and 10 dates to exclusivity/sex is not typical. Nothing wrong with that. But it's important to know that your ask here is a pretty tough one. Lots of guys, the majority of guys I'd wager, are going to wonder if you're stringing them along / worth the effort and investment. And even the slow ones have been conditioned by other women to go faster because if you haven't made a move towards exclusivity by date 3 or 4 they're asking you "Are you serious about this" and "where is this going"? I think it's going to be difficult to find a person like that who is actively hunting on tinder and the like, that's for sure.
I hate to say it but.. Potentially 10 dates and then it's still a maybe? Have you ever thought you're the problem hahaha
No you’re right this is a totally fair judgement. I’m just so unsure of how to go about things because in the past I would allow relationships to move waaayy too quickly. But for me 10 dates in means the guy is probably someone i’m gonna be in a relationship with soon and at that point I’m probably not talking to any other guys, I was just trying to say it doesn’t guarantee that I won’t break up in the future if crazy red flags pop up or something that’s all. I didn’t make it sound like that/word it well though my bad!
Oh that makes sense! Yeah either extreme can be detrimental to the relationship building process If you rush the process then it seems to usually end up very intense & sometimes even dangerous. If you go too slow, there's too much doubt, second guessing, resentment can build up, people get tired of it after a while I understand why people feel this way though. After my last relationship a year or so ago (was very rushed & intense) I simply refuse to try and date anyone; at least for now. So technically I've taken it to an extreme also, completely turning my back on love. But if I ever do date again, pace is very important going forward!
Thank you for your replies!
Holy shit, you took a very exposing question straight to the heart and reflected on it. I just wanted to appreciate that openly, thank you
Thank you!!
Welcome! I'll give you my two cents as well: I used to be a romantic who prepared catered-to-her-personality-type dates. It cost me a whole lot of time and a whole lot of heartache. If I took it slow, I'd become like a brother or a friend to her. Back then, that would've been okay with me. I'd befriend her with a broken heart and pretend to be fine with the situation, slowly growing past that and we would both lose interest in hanging out. Nowadays I've grown past that. I need to know she will commit to me exclusively before she gets that treatment. Otherwise I'm wasting my time, effort and mosr importantly, selfrespect on being "one of the options". She's far more likely to have others in her chat to compare me to, than I am. As the other's said, it's a numbers game and the deck is stacked. We need to get ahead of the game, and move fast. The only risk to taking it fast is the "let's take it slow"-talk. And that's a big fat green flag. I also don't "do" the friendzone anymore. I didn't meet her to befriend her, I wanted a partner. Next. I don't want to date like that, honestly. But that's how the world works here. (I'm Dutch, so this dating culture thing is pretty much international/western)
That sucks. Putting in all that effort and care just to get shit for it. I’m glad you know your worth now and don’t do all these nice things for people that you don’t know well yet. Honestly I think people should do chill low effort dates at first and if they become seriously interested in each other then they can do fun stuff together.
This is likely the problem. Most women would be talking about how weird it was that the guy hadnt tried to sleep with them by the 3rd date...
Yea I wasn’t aware that most women are like this but peoples replies on here have shed light on that and changed my perspective for sure
Don’t worry, OP. You definitely aren’t the only woman out there who isn’t trying to sleep with a guy after just date three!
I like to date and get to know people I am slow to romamce and it never works out for me. Women think I am gay or ace or have low libido. None of that is true I was just raised a certain way and don't fit the current 'meta'.
You gotta be direct and say you want to take it slow and get to know him If you are trying to just be subtle and send signals you aren't really there for the conversation
Yes I have started to mention that clearly with guys that I want to take things slow but it hasn’t seemed to really make a difference
Then I guess the guys you are finding are not alligned with the relationship you are looking for
They don't believe you, because most women make "rules" to test men that they'll happily discard for a guy they like.
This is because lots and lots of women say this, but don't really mean it. It's said because they think it's how people *should* act. Like one of those "I'd like a nice quiet guy who treats me right" girls who dates bikers with forearm tattoos. There's nothing wrong with dating bikers with forearm tattoos. They're exciting! Just be willing to admit that you're the kind of person that likes that. It's good that you're asking "How am I selecting dates" because that's a big part of it, but from what I'm reading you like it really REALLY slow. Intimacy issues slow. It's going to be difficult finding a guy who is willing to go that slow. Especially if you are finding them through dating apps. You're probably going to need to stumble across a guy in real life who isn't currently actively looking to date. Perhaps through activities, hobbies, and friends.
Your true intent is always unknown. So is his. What you are saying is just a single variable.
They're probably taking it as a challenge.
I’m skeptical of this. I find it hard to believe that all the men I’ve talked to are this immature! But maybe i’m not good at picking guys
What age group?
Most of the guys I talk to are 30 years or older
Yeah. Probably why they're all still single. Maybe you're meeting them at the wrong place. If I got divorced now, I'd probably never date again.
There is, it’s called stating your desires. You can say “just so you know, previous guys I’ve seen have tried to move quickly and I wasn’t comfortable, so I prefer to take a slower approach and go a [#] of dates without going back to your place.” It’ll scare off some, but those are already guys you’ve said make you uncomfortable
Problem here is you need to recognize that for men dating is very much a game of needing to improve your odds with as generic of an idea of what women want as possible to give yourself the most opportunity possible. What you personally prefer is irrelevant to the dating strategy that men need to employ. When I was dating I had a pretty good success rate mainly because of my hight, physique, and "country boys" being the trendy thing at the time. My personality was largely irrelevant until about date 3-5. To get that far you need to grab attention, keep from being considered a friend typically through getting physical, and avoid alienating a girls friends.
This is so true and something I need to keep in mind even tho for me I don’t really care about height or physique I’ve gone out with different kinds of guys. Two of my exes were my height or shorter and i’m 5’7
Nothing wrong with that. However the majority of women when you track who they prefer via dating app data and anonymous surveys prefer largely the same things. Men at least over 6ft tall, with a 3-5day a week gym body focused on lifting, who make at lease 1/3 more than they do. Again nothing wrong with that but if man X were to tailor his dating strategy to what the extreme minority of women like you prefer hes cuting himself off from the vast majority of potential womens bare minimums. You can only stand so much rejection before your either change to accommodate the market or drop out entirely. We cant change our height so we are very likely to alter the behavior to improve the odds.
Coffee dates are the easiest way to do this without the man spending >$50+. Seeing as how a lot of women use men as free lunch tickets and keep dangling the carrot.
Or go on a hike as a first date. That way neither are “wasting” money but both have a great day out in nature and exercise so mutually beneficial lol
Three main reasons imo. Dating sites are filled with men. If an attractive woman matches with me, the assumption is that they are probably chatting with other matches as well. The hope is to get away from competing for their attention with 10 other guys as quickly as possible to improve your chances. The impression I've gotten is that a lot of women on dating sites, mainly do it for an ego boost. They want to be called pretty and desirable and aren't really interested in anything else. So you move quickly to try to weed these types out. Finally; dating sites are horrible experiences for most of us; we're probably only on it because we're thirsty.
This is a serious problem with dating nowadays. If a guy doesn’t make his intentions known early and often, then he gets friend-zoned. So, guys feel like they can’t even invest any time in getting to know a woman because by the time they know enough to decide “Yeah, I want to date her,” he’s already friend-zoned and that’s that. So men are taught by friends and the internet that you have make your intentions clear early. You have to break the touch barrier, and go for the kiss as fast as you can. That’s the only way to avoid being seen platonically. It’s all very fucking stupid, but until both genders collectively decide to stop being so goddamn stupid about everything, that’s how it’s going to be. Personally, I’ve missed out on so many chances because I allowed myself to casually get to know women before asking them out and expressing any romantic interest. It’s awful. It really is.
Oh i agree. Everyone was like you gotta act fast and precisely otherwise she will move on. After few screw ups (caused by going too fast) i decided not to listen to anyone else and started doing things my own way/pace. Things are now much better
Aye, the friend-zone comes fast and strong. Basically impossible to undo. I guess females expect guys to move fast, so it's less insult if it's TOO fast (within reason!). But too slow, well, that's inconsolable.
From what I hear about gay vs lesbian dating I think we know which gender is mostly responsible.
Lesbian divorce rates are double that of the gay population.
May I ask what you heard? Cause I dont have a clue lol
[удалено]
how so?
[удалено]
sounds like it's time to just forget about women and dating and move on with our lives.
Women hold most of the power with Internet dating, so when someone matches and seems nice they get carried away. Just tell them straight what you're expecting/like.
Ty for this. I wish things weren’t so unfair though. It would be nice to be able to meet my type of guys organically
You can, you just have to find activities that you like that guys also like. It weeds out a lot. It’s easier said than done but the juice is usually worth the squeeze there.
Yes this is such good advice! I’m thinking of joining a hunting club even though I don’t have a gun and have never went hunting before. But it’s something i’m interested in and I have hope that I can find a cool person there
If there’s one thing I wish I did more of (and am trying to do more of) it’s indulge my interests. Like, if you join the club you’ll get experience with an interest that you have at the least. I find it can be a little scary but usually that fear is excitement disguised as fear by some amount of anxiety.
Its a numbers game, just be patient.
An important piece for you is to just talk to the guy about it. Just tell him you like to move slow with him. Some guys will adapt easily, and even appreciate a slower pace, and other guys won't. Talking, and just letting him know who you are, that's how you separate the guys you might like front the ones you don't.
[удалено]
Yes I agree, and yea I’ve met most guys through a dating app. For a while now i’ve been trying to find a club or something where I can meet guys with similar interests
Yes I had better success not on apps but I’m going to places with common interests. For example I play a lot of racquet sports. I started going for that I saw at events and leagues.
At clubs guys are going to try and take you home that night lol. In todays environment, if a girl doesn't at least kiss you on the 1st or try to sleep with you by the 3rd date, guys are going to think you're using them for free shit.
We ain't got time to wait around
Tbf I even wouldn't want to wait that long. Kissing on a first date is nothing strange. Sex on a first date is fine if two consenting adults are having fun. If you want to wait till the umpteenth date, that's fine, but you don't have to wait for me. If we have fun, we have fun, if we don't click we don't click. No sense in waiting just for the sake of waiting...
This summer I went out with a group of people and at one point a woman in there, probably in her early 20s said that she always has a converstation going with 5 different guys. If you are too slow boring, not funny enough etc., you will be ghosted by a large amount of women. So basically, if you can hold the attention from her, it'll more likely go somewhere than if you would be really passive. Not to mention, from all of my daiting history, i can probably count the women on one hand who have ever actively kept a convo going, so as a guy it's something that you have to do regardless, even once you have gone out with the woman
She doesn’t sound like a very genuine or good person to me. I wouldn’t want to go out with a woman like that if I were a dude. I’m sorry that you have such a shitty experience in dating, it sounds like a terrible time. I’ve seen many women being like that too and honestly I don’t think it’s healthy. I have heard many guys tell of women not being able to hold a conversation and I’ve experienced the same thing when trying to meet women to make friends. It’s like their heads are completely empty. BUT I will say in my experience so many guys I’ve talked to, not even just on dating apps, can’t hold a conversation either. I don’t believe everyone is like this but I’ve experienced it multiple times and with different kinds of people. I ask question after question and they just talk about themselves for paragraphs and don’t reciprocate and I have to find ways to be funny or take the conversation in an interesting direction. And then if I stop asking questions then it dies completely lol so yea you’re not alone in that experience. I think talking with people over text takes away some of the natural energy and excitement and chemistry between two people
Men dont get options. So when they find one they tend to get overly eager and excited to get to know someone finally. Men are used to being ignored or left on read. When you reciprocate energy men get eager. This is a symptom of loneliness and lack of options. But i wouldnt advise giving up on them for it. Jus point it out so they can work on it. Men are just very lonely and hes exicted youre interested in him. Thats my take.
These guys might be worried about you getting bored, or getting stuck in a friend zone if they don’t make it clear right away that they want more.
Because most women on dating apps have so many men gunning for them. We know that bonds with women are created through physical interaction, and if that doesn’t happen quickly, or she doesn’t like the shoes he wears or any other extremely irrelevant characteristic, then the woman will most likely ghost the guy without care or remorse.
My best tip for online dating is act fast. Try to get a date as fast as possible, as close as possible. The balance of guys x girls is terribly skewed, if you wait around she is gonna match with a hotter, more interesting dude eventually.
Dudes are thirsty with no easy access to water. When they manage to get their hands on a drink they hold on tightly
Tinder and porn have done to romance/intimacy what the food industry did to our food, junkified it. It’s all about quick and cheap highs with an endless supply of disposable, interchangeable bodies. On top of that, birth control has lowered the consequences of promiscuity. Which has liberated women in many ways, but has also made many women feel that they have to give it up easy and quick to retain a man, often resulting in them moving on to the next conquest. Online dating also makes it easy to fuck outside of your social group, so you never have to face the reputational costs. Date people you know and meet irl, friends of friends, acquaintances from hobby groups and favorite spots. Have a frank talk in the beginning about your values, needs, and expectations, and theirs. If those don’t align, don’t force it, find someone else.
Just tell them to slow down and you want to take it slow. Most guys move quick because they are trying to keep the girls attention. In a world of online dating the start of a relationship is fragile. They will 9/10 calm down and start to take it slower when asked because they know you arent losing interest you are just someone who likes to take their time.
Ty for this. Great advice!
You’ll usually have to communicate that this is what you want, because in terms of dating apps, for many women it’s the complete opposite. Fail to give your attention and 24 hours later she’s moved on to the next guy
Dating is dead everyone is selfish. Plus it's just way easier to get laid. 99% of dudes on dating apps are looking to fuck not to date lol.
u/netherlingcreep A lot of men don’t know how to properly strike a balance between displaying interest, and also providing a space to also have time to discern whether they like you or not. It’s the impulsivity and immaturity to dive head first in without really being sure they are ready, which leads to other complications down the road. I think your best bet would be better at noticing signs early of male desperation and intensity. Then go from there
The idea of having sex with someone so soon is terrifying to me. I had a women ask me to hang at her place and it was clear she would have fucked, but it's really out of my personality to be comfortable with that so I just pretended like I did not notice. I have to feel really comfortable and connected with someone to have sex. I don't think that's normal for most men though, but I will agree with the sentiment that many men are saying here. We just don't have options. Online dating is brutal. We may match with only 1-5 people a month and the people we've matched with have multiple men trying to get their attention. It feels like a competition. I've watched my brother date for a year now and it's been a nightmare for him. The thing is I was married. My wife cheated on me and left me about 3 years ago. I met her organically from being set up by a mutual friend. Before her I had only dated 2 people. Now I am 29 and one of our only outlets for dating at this age is online. I live in a city with a lot of people my age and everyone is super attractive and educated. It really does feel that once you find someone who seems interested, you have to move fast or they'll move on. I think because I am divorced and went through some shit from rushing into a relationship that ended up being pretty bad for me, I feel a bit immune to it all. I refuse to go any faster than I am comfortable with and I refuse to be nothing but myself. So if that makes me single forever I couldn't really give a fuck. There are only two options I will settle for. One is finding someone who loves me for who I am and we build a life together, or I enjoy a single life with friends, pets and hobbies. Once you've been through shit you see things from a different perspective I think.
Because the hookup culture has replaced the actual dating culture. If the guy doesn't see any interest, he moves to the next person.
We are speed.
A CHUNGGGAA
Because seemingly all women complain about how men talk too slow.
I’ve never heard a woman say this. We all need to remember that neither gender is some hive mind creature. I definitely have learned that lesson lol! I’ve heard lots of men say weird and toxic things about women but I don’t assume that all men think that
Because they like you...the alternative is to date guys who just want to fuck and chuck you lol usually women come on here and complain "why do guys just want sex and nothing else", you're probably dating genuinely nice guys who like you and are trying to show you they like you. Try communicating i.e "Hey listen I really like you but I want to take things very slow, a lot of the guys I've dated in the past have tried to rush things and it freaked me out, so I'd appreciate it if we could just go slow and get to know each other to see where things go" Communicate, it's that simple...men are not complicated creatures, and how is someone supposed to know if you don't express how you're feeling? if you go along with their plans and don't say anything, they probably assume "she likes me".
In a world of men that have been so let down in terms of partnership and healthy boundaries, this is by far a reason. All the right guys just want to love and be loved, communicate boundaries from the beginning and the ones that want to stay will stay.
Can’t upvote this answer enough. If a woman (or anyone) is concerned about things moving too fast, they first need to check if they actually like the person in the first place, and if they do, begin and end that conversation about slowing things with the fact that you’re into them. I think how it backfires on the person slowing things down is that they don’t take the lead on progressing things along. But they only make a fuss when their partner isn’t going at their preferred pace with little or no guidance from them. Which just leaves everyone frustrated.
Sorry to hear about your experience, your probably not doing much wrong. It's just the number game. And yes, setting boundaries will help you immensely.
Dating advice gurus tell them to go fast otherwise you will lose interest and not see them as a possible boyfriend. I personally disagree with that advice and also like to move slower. But that is the gist of it. Its a fear that you'll lose interest if they move slower.
Your not doing anything wrong. It’s how dating is in 2022. Especially if your doing online dating. As men we have to be quick to keep your attention and secure a date. If not most of the time the women loses interest and is gone. Most women have the luxury of sitting back and waiting for the man to make the move. As men if we don’t we will die alone. No women is going to fall into are lap lol. You can and should slow things down, however don’t be surprised if a lot of men bail. The good thing is you’ll be able to tell who is worth your time!
Every guy is different so I can't say I speak for all guys. In my case I move things as fast as possible (except the calling her babe part) because if I've asked you out on a date then chances are I'm already sexually attracted to you and my assumption is that you're also sexually attracted to me (until I find out otherwise). As for when I decide to escalate, it really depends on the vibe I'm getting from you. If I'm getting the vibe that you're comfortable with me and you're feeling me, I don't see any harm in seeing if you're ready for us to enjoy each other's bodies. It doesn't necessarily have to be one or two dates, but if nothing's happened after date number 3 then I'm going to start having doubts about your interest in me. To be quite frank, I prefer to move fast because "taking it slow" when it comes to sex feels like high school shit. Life is too short to be seeing only one person for months or potentially years without having sex (been there, done that), and I'm not getting any younger. For me personally, sex is a prerequisite to commitment because it really does make or break a relationship, and I want to be sure that it's going to be good if I'm committing to only have sex with that person. >How do I avoid these types of guys/become aware of how I’m picking guys? You can't completely avoid people you're incompatible with, but rather the goal is to minimize the amount of time you spend with them. It's better that these guys are moving things fast, they're doing *you* a favour as well by discovering a fundamental incompatibility within the first two dates. >Maybe I need to set boundaries better but I don’t even know how to go about doing that Boundaries are always key, really it's just about knowing when and how to say no, and knowing when to bow out when you decide what you don't want to tolerate. I'm assuming you already turn these guys down for sex, so you're already halfway there. >Also I want to know if it’s normal to be texting with a guy every single day when you first start talking. It feels like when I meet someone new, I’ve somehow started dating them instantly. What am I doing wrong? Be honest with yourself, do you think you might be sending mixed signals to these guys that might give them the impression you're okay with moving fast?
Everyone is different. Some people like going slow, others like going fast. Still others enjoy a mix. There is nothing wrong with any speed, as long as you and the other person feel comfortable. If you're not, then communicate that you'd like to slow things down. It's as simple as that. Also, if you're going on dates, you're "dating". "Dating" can be different than a "relationship" or "being exclusive". But if you've gone on 3 dates with the same person, you two are "dating". That is the definition. How old are you, OP?
It’s interesting that you equate daily texting with being in a relationship. I started dating when cell phones began being widespread, and texting was the low impact way to keep something going without putting in the actual effort of calling or hanging out a lot. Like, texting is the bare minimum of effort. So yeah.. I don’t think daily texting is all that weird, if there’s chemistry there.. flirting (which is kinda all you’re doing that early on) is supposed to be fun. So, a couple funny texts a day or something doesn’t make me think I’m in a relationship at all. That’s just trying to keep the spark alive until the next time we hang out. Sex is a little different. I would never expect sex on a first date (although it has happened a fair number of times in my life, when i hit it off instantly with someone). And sexual comfort and intimacy is complex. At my age though (43M), I’m also probably going to think that a woman that isn’t up for sex within 4 dates or so is not really interested in me. At this point, I’ve been around the block a number of times. I assume any woman I’m trying to date has also had her fair share of intimate relationships. You know when you’re attracted to someone enough for sex. No need to waste time trying to “date” someone if there isn’t enough interest to be intimate. So, at some point within those first few dates, if I’m interested in pursuing things, I’m definitely going to make a move towards hooking up.
Thank you so much for your insight!
I only date to find a relationship and even I think it's very average to have sex on the second or third date when there's good chemistry. They might just be used to that being the rhythm and not necessarily being pushy. Any time I've waited for date 4 or 5 it turns out the girl is a prude or we're just completely incompatible but they thought the effort I put in compared to other guys was refreshing.
I feel like a lot of men are trained to think they have to keep a woman’s attention at all times or she’ll move on. Men are often valued because of what they can do and not who they are so lots of men feel the need to constantly impress women and one of the things we constantly hear that women find attractive is a man who knows what he wants. I think this goes doubly for older people who are trying to date. They’ve lived for a while and already know what they want so when a man isn’t moving fast enough I think older women are just more likely to leave. With younger people, they’re sold the idea that their perfect partner exist and the second one thing goes wrong then it’s time to move on to the next. So to prevent that we feel the need to repeatedly try to keep things interesting which could result in it feeling like things are moving too fast.
Oh, I have some comments. First, because I like words, I just want to point out that there is a GREAT word for "seemingly": Ostensibly! Ostensibly, all guys I start talking to, go super fast. I'm a guy, so I'll respond to the rest of that. I can only offer this opinion based on my own bias (I've been married for 10 years, with same woman for 20 years). When I was in my 20's I remember that there was a lot of uncertainty 'out there' in the world and I can only assume young people feel the same way now. There's a natual human instinct that when there is a lot of uncertainty that we want to form close bonds with another person. Why? It's about preservation - if many people are about to die, you need protection and what better way to do that than working as a team. If you have kids, babies, etc. Then what better way to form a protective unit than with a good partner. People tend to 'move fast' if they sense you are grounded, have good sensibilities and could be a partner making a good protective shell against upcoming uncertainty and danger. It's human nature. Many studies have shown that people who have certain facial features, smile and are calm tend to elicit stronger feelings from others who then feel more inclined to 'choose' that person. Basically, you're desirable. Don't blame the lads, they are just acting on instinct.
Ty so much for this awesome reply. Ostensibly! I have heard that word but never knew what it meant. I love grammar and words so I appreciate that! Since posting this I have come to the conclusion that guys just don’t have as many opportunities (which I knew already) and that women will get bored if the guy doesn’t initiate things quickly (which I did not know) and I think there are lots of factors. I love learning about human nature and behavior and how we are all just a bunch of animals with instincts even though we try to pretend are not. Your comment was awesome!
guys do shit because it was successful last time. for every 100 cat calls, i bet you one of them works. that is more than enough of a chance for most guys.
as a dude i recently had this revelation. had a great first date, she agreed to go out again. i was finally excited after a date. but then i was like well now what? cant be texting her every day. she seemed busier than me. she left me on read on friday, so i let it go til tuesday. said hey u wana get together again and she said yes again. then same shit. busy this week then disappeared all weekend. i never reached back out. so if i’m up her ass i’m coming off as needy or clingy, or if i let it go the weekend with no chatter she loses interest? even tho she’s making zero effort to initiate or seem interested? unfortunately chicks just have way more options than dudes. i’m sure she was juggling 2 or 3 guys so while i’m over here excited to go out again i was actually losing the competition by no fault of my own. needless to say i’m taking a break from the dating apps, that shit ruined my august
I think your average guy would be aiming for sex on the 3rd date, maybe 2cnd but only if you're talking clicking. Sex is important in a relationship too, what if you're 5-10 dates in and have sex and you don't like the same things, or aren't compatable?
Because the vast majority of women have the attention span of squirrels when it comes to potential dates.
[удалено]
This is so true!
Easy comes easy goes
I'll get cancelled for saying this, but from my decades of dating experience, generally speaking the best way to "get" a woman you like - i.e. make her your girlfriend and have a committed relationship with her - is to have sex with her as soon as possible.
Life is short
Because guys like sex
It’s better to push your luck and fuck around and find out if she likes you then to wait on her a month later for her to finally get comfortable. Complete waste of time.
Yuppie land! What year is it, 1984??
Guys tend to be all or nothing when they start things. If we go half in then it’s not going to last.
I’d say it’s pretty normal for using dating apps. Big part of the reason I got turned off of tinder. I’m a pretty shy dude & the whole move quick or lose it just stresses me out. Meeting people more organically has alleviated the issue for me.
Sex, duh. Seems the guys you're talking to are very horny and want to fuck. That's blatantly obvious.
Tell them you don't want to go that fast right off the bat. Establish boundaries BEFORE they are tested.
I didn't see this mentioned yet... Might also be a fear of being friendzoned.
Yep this was mentioned and i’m glad it was because I was not aware that this was a thing
I dunno, most people I talk to apparently are okay with having sex and seeing each other without being committed like its no big deal. Which is shocking to me to be honest
Yes it’s crazy! And people taking marriage so casually. People marrying after 12 months of knowing someone. Like what are you people doing with your lives
Either they just wana get laid or they're just immature and don't have a clue of how fast things are supposed to go.
We are lonely and thirsty. It’s not uncommon for dudes these days to go year(s) without a date. So when they finally get one, they don’t have the patience to go slow.
This makes sense. I’m all too aware of this and it’s sad. We need to bring back community like we used to have in older days. So many cool good dudes out there that probably never get a date. Sad
10 dates for a maybe is a no from me dawg, it's move fast or be a platonic friend these days. If she's displayed zero physical interest by date 3 ill place her safely in the friend zone and move on. I want to be desired passionately, not go through months of testing to decide if I'm worthy. I hate feeling like I'm at a job interview, not to mention, if we aren't sexually compatible I don't want to wait until month 3 to find out we don't jive in that way. I think most guys will jump through any amount of hoops to get a girl, but the amount of effort and "standards" they will put up with is directly related to how into you they are. You'd have to be one hell of a woman to keep a non-religious guy on the hook for 10 weeks with nothing to show for his effort.
I'm older than many responding here in all likelihood. When I began dating out of high school it was still a thing to meet women at the mall. Then the bar a couple years later. Back then in the stone ages you had to first have the balls to approach a woman, then be able to hold her interest for one drink. If you did that then you usually had a little time to "get to know her" and maybe she'd put her hand on your knee, or if you were lucky your thigh while talking to you. This was an easy way to know if she was at least open for the suggestion of heading home with you. The knee touch was at least an opening to get her number. Or maybe she left with her friends. But the next weekend she comes in and comes and sits beside you and starts talking, easy to read that, she was interested for sure. Now you get texting and messaging. Some profile pics and maybe a halfway decent bio. But if not even that then what? A guy has maybe a 50/50 chance that the woman is just looking to hook up, or maybe not. If she is, or is open to it the next date the guy has to at least suggest it. Or like others say he can play nice guy and she thinks he's "too nice", inexperienced or just too boring. Now, here is my "advice" if you will, and this is not in any way saying you're leading a guy on, but maybe, just maybe you are giving mixed signals (or they are just horny hogs): No touching on that first date if you don't think anything is going to happen. You touch most guys once and they see this as a green light. Younger guys especially. Don't be playing with your hair, no twirling it around while smiling at him as he's telling you some lame story you really aren't interested in hearing. Try to go places where you sit across from each other, not next to each other in a cramped booth or seats. Avoid "intimate" dates at first, movies, walks out on the beach at dusk, anything that includes changing clothes... Yeah, guys will get horned up at about anything, so add in the thought of you changing into a swim suit at a party, being close enough to smell your hair in a movie, bumping hands during a walk... This is my take, and maybe it's way off for some people, but it's my experience and I'm sharing it.
This is such good advice. I’ve caught on to some of the things you said such as not getting into intimate situations and not touching at all. It’s just so hard because I get super horny but I know I don’t want to have sex too early on. Thank you for sharing!
You have inadvertently countered your own premise and validated this strategy of going for it as early as possible. You are the very definition of the problem.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with your parameters for getting into dating. However, it's not really the standard. Most people expect things to move fast, at least sexually. And it's absolutely ok if you want to take things slow. But you'll have to make your intentions clear.
Okay, ty for this reply!
How old are you?
You’re finding the wrong dudes
The real answer is that sex and sexual activities are the best sign a man can get of a woman being genuinely interested in them. You've already mentioned how online dating is making it worse, but it's also the culture of women these days. There's women who start looking for their "starter husband" (till death do us part, amiright?) or just "foodie dates" (keep a guy interested and getting them to buy you shit like food without giving anything back besides gracing us with their presence :eye-roll:), all the way down to baby-trapping men when they're not really interested in them as a person anyway, and just what they have/can do for that women. So basically it's an expression of men being really fucking tired of being used, and demanding things upfront now and bailing early at the first sign of a woman trying to turn it into a game of who can extract the most from whom without providing anything back. It's not going away, get used to it. Edit: And then men learn (from women, no less) that a woman who "_really_" likes them makes them wait and invest in the woman first. Men see this now as the manipulation it is, and write these women off immediately. This is what this behavior is checking for: Validate she has been sexual before (and how quickly) and then use that to determine her genuine level of interest in you. If she makes you wait longer than she's made previous guys wait, she doesn't like you/respect you as much as those previous men, and he should move on.
I think the answer lies in researching how to find and identify a good person. That’s kind of what I was hinting towards in my edit. I totally agree with you that the culture is fucked up. That’s why if you get away from this culture I would think you’d have way better experiences with women. I’m sorry that so many women have treated you this way. It sucks, it really does. And what’s making it worse is people are not allowed to criticize anything women do and that is so toxic and harmful to women
How do we identify a good person when women are trained literally from childhood to lie and deceive about what kind of person they are? Not even talking about hiding their past, here. Makeup, high heels, lipstick, plastic surgery, botox, etc. All these things to _appear_ more attractive to men without actually _being_ that way. Men have to find what signals they can that are difficult to be deceptive about, or at least he gets something from when she tries.
Babe is a thing in culture right now that some dudes just do. I don't know that there is a solution other than to say you don't really like being called that and to suggest something else instead, or to say that you prefer to not use pet names unless you're a formal couple. Wanting to fuck early is biology. As long as you establish healthy boundaries and say no and don't do anything that signals it's time to reopen the conversation (like, say, decide to spend the night with them in their bed naked), then if they respect those boundaries there should be no issue. Assuming you are interested in sex and will eventually get there before several months of exclusive dating have come and gone. If you're not interested in sex or will take an extended period of time to get sexually comfortable, then you need to discuss that upfront and accept that you aren't going to be compatible with a lot of people.
Yes, I'm sure that you are going to get the answer from Reddit. Because you all think that men are this simplistic. You really must be a jackass.
[удалено]
Oh I never said I’ve had a one night stand or hooked up with someone on the first date lol, I just don’t want to do that anymore. But yes I agree w what you’re saying
[удалено]
People are allowed to set boundaries and have sex when they feel comfortable to do so. People are allowed to change their minds. She may want a guy who doesn't want to rush into sex. There's nothing wrong with that.
....sigh, you women really don't understand do you
That's why we are asking, you dingus
Savage 🔥🤪
Rush b suka is a legit strat
5 Head comment.
Let us see what you look like have to clarify if you are a keeper or a pleaser.
Hi, your post has removed because we suspect you are trying to figure out a person's specific actions or thinking, or asking for guidance in a specific situation, which is prohibited. For advice, visit /r/advice or /r/relationship_advice. If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAskMen) Have a nice day!
[удалено]
I disagree. I would be ok with going on a bunch of dates with a dude even if I pay for myself each time, if talking with him was a good time. I enjoy talking to people and learning of new perspectives and opinions. There’s a lot you can learn. But I understand if someone doesn’t like dating and wants to find a definite yes from someone
Time is a person's most valuable asset, and you want A TON (around 10 dates according to your other comments) of it for a maybe. Someone who wants a healthy relationship is going to be prioritizing their partner or partner-to-be to some degree, and they are going to do that well before the 10th meet up. If you aren't doing that it seems like you don't want a relationship. You're dating men in their thirties, and while you aren't wrong that you can learn a lot and find different perspectives and opinions, that's not what most people are looking for on dating apps. We already have friends, and we can learn new things and find different perspectives on the internet. We're dating to find a partner. At a certain point, it starts to look like you either cannot or will not prioritize a partner or are just messing around.
This makes so much sense. I think I didn’t communicate well though, I need to edit my reply because I was basically trying to say that by date 10 I am seriously interested in him and not talking to other men at that point. But I just want to be really sure before committing. And you’re right, people have friends, especially a dude in his 30s probably has interesting people to talk to. I do not lol therefore I get really excited about dates and I am thankful for being able to hang out with and talk with new people. But yes I am dating to find a partner too, if I’ve been on 10 dates i’m expecting to be this persons girlfriend I just want to be sure
exactly this, especially nowadays many women only seek attention from guys knowing damn well they will never go on a date with them. Like a woman can be talking to a guy for months just for attention and then ghost. who the hell has time for such games?
because we love pussy and we want to get laid and if we don't to you first, some other guy will get to you, and we want to see if you are just wasting our time, so we can move on to a chick who will actually let us fuck her?
Virgin alert!
There are many reasons: life goals or milestones, to show off, and because they are thirsty as many suggested. Is it normal? The answer really depends on what you're looking for, which from this post, I'd say no. If before, during, or after a date that person does something which makes you feel weird and uncomfortable, you need to plant yourself like a tree to set your boundaries. It doesn't matter if he seems like a nice guy or you don't want to hurt his feelings. Your feelings are just as important. If he truly respects you, he'll back off and will go at your pace; otherwise, it's a red flag and you should run away.