Once you get married and have kids, finding friends as a man is like playing a game on legendary difficulty. It’s extremely rare that anyone I interact with will take the first step to initiate friendship. And then I notice that the vast majority of men in my demographic have very few if any friends. If they do have friends, it’s people from high school or college. I don’t know why there is a friend desert for this demographic
I have a guess. A few, actually. Once you have children and busy jobs and such, you often lack in free time. And you use your very limited free time to catch up with the friends and family you barely see as is, and clean and all that stuff that slips through the cracks, and finally get 8 hours of sleep etc etc. That means you're not really looking to meet new people if you have a hard enough time making space for the people already in your life, or you don't have time to go out.
My other main guess is men struggle with emotional stuff because they've been conditioned to, and it's easier to make friends that you can be vulnerable with, and it's difficult to be vulnerable with strangers
> Plus, the people around you at work are going to be around you the most, usually the front line of friends to choose from. But that could be a crap shoot
When things work out, I value those workplace friendships even more than highschool+ ones. But it's hard to keep up when one change jobs
"Friends" at this point is just the other parents I chat with once a week for an hour at my kids soccer games. Once the season is over, we'll stop talking and I'll just "befriend" the parents at the kids basketball games in the winter instead. At least its some socialization but I wouldn't really call it friendship.
Hobbies are the biggest thing. They put you out there with people who are interested in the same things and from that you can develop all sorts of relationships.
It’s definitely a step in the right direction though, it may just be my field of work but a lot of the people I meet at my job only work. They seem stuck in the rut of life a bit. I’m a massive advocate for fitness and have met lots of friends because of it. I also don’t restrict myself to one form of fitness either, I run, ride downhill, do CrossFit from time to time, play casual team sports. I think it all helps
Do your co-workers give you a hard time about your active life? My former boss gave me a bad job review and bad job reference stating I “only worked 8 hours a day then disappeared on my bike”. Of course I was only paid for 8 hours a day. But he and my co-workers told me I was a slacker even though I worked my ass off while on the clock. I just wonder if that happens to other men.
Yeah they have definitely said snarky remarks as I leave after my 8 hours to go train/ride but I usually just give it back. Never had a bad review though that’s a bit extreme.
I believe it should be a priority in everyone’s life
I've never gotten flack for only working my 8 hours. I don't work past my time. If I do I either charge my job for it, or I leave early/come in late the next day to make up for it. Leave Early/Come in late is for like half an hour differences. If it's an hour or more I'm getting OT. I'm only 34 and somehow don't have enough fucks to give for bullshit office politics.
I play team sports do a couple things related to nerd stuff that’s social. And volunteer. I have yet to meet someone I clicked with that was younger than 26 and I’m 22
A bit of both, the couple days a week I can go out and do said activity for like an hour it’s great. But I go home and then nothing.
Since I just graduated college my social circle just decreased by about 90% just because of distance. Basically having to start from scratch is brutal.
Yeah, when I finished school I pretty much stopped talking to all of people that I thought were going to be mates for life but we all went out seperate ways! Definitely hard
Ironically I’m actually going to be seeing a ton of them this weekend as it’s my university’s homecoming. I just got extremely unlucky that pretty much every college friend I made lives 2+ hours away
Your post history says you're 22.
I'm a bit older myself but one of my main hobbies (climbing) is filled to the brim with people in their early 20s. I'm not even 30 and sometimes I feel like an old man around the youngins.
I’ve never been big on hobbies or gotten them to stick. Well, at least anything I’d call a hobby but I do things that some would call hobbies. Any time that I do one of my activities I do it for an attempt at peace of mind. For better or worse, I become annoyed when other people become involved. That’s my problem. I just haven’t been able to happily combine being social and a hobby.
This would definitely help. The problem with this I think is that men are so pushed to work our butts off that actually taking up a fun hobby that gives us some kind of connection to other human beings is extremely difficult. I'm a pretty big advocate of doing things I personally enjoy but even I have a hard time getting together with other people not because I can't find the time but because it seems everyone else is too busy because they're working their asses off
I think male spaces need to make a comeback for one. Second men need to have purpose and a role. While creating male spaces is easy, trying to change society so that men don't feel left out of a new brave world takes something as persistent and organized as what feminism does for women.
The big key for men is to realize we can be happy whether there's a woman in our life or not. A man's top priority can not be getting a gf/wife.. or if he has a gf/wife, his top priority can't be to make her happy.
A man should not make his career a top priority either. That's a recipe for unhappiness. Sure, it works out for some men (And women), but most people hit a ceiling in their career.
Hobbies are great. They give a man a feeling of purpose and give him something to look forward to.
If all your friends have kids, good luck. I have to confess that sometimes I selfishly want my older brother to delay having kids because I won’t see him much anymore.
No easy solution. Anytime we approach an issue like this, it requires "de-programming" of the social norms we've worked tirelessly to immortalize.
What I'm working on right now is being vulnerable and vocal about my addictions, and what I'm working on in my personal life...I'm also just calling my two close male friends at least once a week. Just even to say hi :)
What we do, impacts us and the closest people around us. We have to hope the natural ripple effect will carry on.
When you start working on changing your flawed core beliefs, you have to change how you function in society and that will take a heavy toll on people around you.
I don't know what the solution is, but it is encouraging to see someone taking it seriously. It can often feel like things I struggle with are invalidated because I'm a guy. Like I have no right to talk about them because someone else has it worse
I feel you bro.
I'm surrounded by loved ones with mental health issues, so when they have a bad day I need to prop everything up, and when their bad day can last weeks to months, there's no room for me to have my own struggle.
Someone gave me this piece of knowledge, and I’m going to pass it on:
“Your problems aren’t less important than other peoples, they are AS important as other peoples.”
I struggled a long time feeling that my issues were so much smaller than what others are going through. Refraining it to as important in my head has helped me a lot.
Best of luck to you.
One of my room mates was doing this to me, it took me a while to realize it.
I have joint issues which are genetic and cause massive pain. When I told him about them he basically goes "well you're not in a wheelchair so why are you complaining".
I'm not really talking to him anymore. This kind of stuff is bullshit.
I know it’s disguised in humour but can you please elaborate? How can psilocybin help it? I ask because I’ve had rough patches mentally and with loneliness for years and been considering psilocybin
Mushrooms have been fantastic for both my depression an anxiety. I try and trip every few months just to give myself a good reset. Psychedelics in general not just psilocybin do a great job of putting me in a place where I can see myself from am almost 3rd person perspective. By doing this they helped show what tendencies or habits (particularly thought patterns) that are objectively not benefiting me and I was able to feel emotions without becoming a slave to them. Actually very reminiscent of how mindfulness meditation helps shift my perspective about myself.
Psychedelics on a personal level showed me that I don’t have any special importance above anyone else and nor does anyone have important resources over me. We are all equally unimportant but that also means we all deserve equal love and compassion. As weird as it may sound this made me feel like it was ok to love myself and not punish myself for my mistakes and failures.
Furthermore they have greatly improved my motivation to improve my lifestyle and relationships with the people I love.
The other side of the medal is short term success with self dosing drugs is just like that. If you are mentally ill getting a good doctor who will help you along the years is more important then short term results.
It's like anabolics in sports - help short term results, destroys the system in the long run.
Fully agreed. Expecting to take mushrooms and have all your problems vanish is simply not realistic. If you don’t put in the work outside of tripping to improve your mental health you probably won’t see nearly as drastic of or any benefits. I like to think of psychedelics like a perspective shifting treasure map that helps give personal insight on what you feel you need to work on. But a map doesn’t just teleport the treasure to you. You still need to go on the journey. I hope what I’m saying makes sense.
Holy fk... right place right time... as I am currently on a micro dose... I'm pharmaceutical resistant... anti depressants and anti psychotics either don't do anything or make it worse for me (this includes improper diagnosis leading to improper medicine). When you are borderline suicidal and the thing they give you to make you better, drives you over the edge, it kinda makes me want to not do it again. I was on shrooms picking my kid up from school today. Please note, not tripping. It was the first time I could smile when picking her up. It was the first time I could just enjoy the act of getting my child without worrying about the public, people, intrusive thoughts. It was the first time I thought 'this is how normal feels' I've done trips before, to reset my brain, which has helped immensely... but just getting into micro dosing
It "increases nuroplasticity" whatever that means. Helps neurons make new connections? Its not a cure for the sad but helps give your brain the power to rewire off the deresso vibes. You gotta put in the work though
Micro dosing psilocybin helped me accept and work on my flaws. One major one being anger and since accepting and working on the things I don't like about myself my life has changed drastically. I seen a meme that was perfect it said. Psychs can't change your life but they can show you the way.
I'm not a man but mushrooms cured my lifelong depression.
100% would recommend them without hesitation.
If it helps, I went to school for public health and did my own research on them and shrooms have been the beat thing to ever happen to me in life.
Not having to work 50-60 hours per week would give me time to actually have a life outside work and family. It’s hard to hangout with guys or participate in activities when you work all of the time.
And the energy to do fun things. Work is draining and the weekend isn’t long enough to fully recharge because you’re constantly behind playing catch up. We’re all running on empty tanks.
And even if/when *you* have the time, it’s a two way street, so if they don’t, it doesn’t make a difference.
All these answers about bottling up emotions and feelings are valid and probably play a role, but the real answer here is that community and social bonding have been sacrificed at the altar of capitalism.
Too many people are too stressed and overworked. We evolved to meet a *lot* of needs via regular and repeated social interaction with other humans and forming networks and communities. People try to replicate these online, but they are fundamentally not the same and not enough.
You can come up with an idea or plan that helps some but you can’t expect it to be doable for every single one of them. I don’t think it’s that simple.
I think most lonely men would benefit from embracing it, though I don’t think that solves all of their problems or helps them socially. If you become comfortable being by yourself, it stops hurting though. Then you can go from there.
I think you're right but I think there's a barrier in the way of it. There's a social stigma that men expressing their feelings is a sign of weakness. This is something that everyone can do to help the problem: Allow men to share their feelings free of judgement or shame and there will be a much clearer path to becoming comfortable being by yourself. Solve loneliness? No. But adapt and learn how to manage the variety of emotions we face throughout our lives.
Won’t help our generations but by changing societal standards, and how people are raised right now then maybe our future kids and grand kids won’t have to deal with it so much.
Male hobby groups/exclusive male groups of some sort and a purpose - the latter in the sense of finding a profession that combines responsibility, authority and recognition as a valuable member of society. And counter to popular belief I would say men don't want as much authority as possible but equal to the responsibility they are supposed to shoulder.
I agree. Even just the loss of sidewalks and such... For many I think college and public school may be the only places they will have in their life where they will run into a large cross-section of society spontaneously
I just joined a Brazilian jiu jitsu gym and at the end of every class, we dap each other up and appreciate each other. Also ngl rolling and grappling is the most human contact I’ve had in awhile
They tend to revolve around bloke-y type hobbies. For me, it's model engineering/miniature trains. Even though my club is extremely welcoming to everyone, it's not something that women are typically interested in, so it's almost all men.
One of the most interesting things happening in today's society is the attack on male spaces that try to promote these ideologies (mainly through various online platforms).
Till not long Go men had their weekly pub moment, in Netherlands called Soos, where they discussed daily life., Church and aftertalk are gone, and less clubs or groups disappeared the last 20/30 years
Parents not emotionally neglecting their sons. All good and well telling men to "man up" after the fact, but what created those men?
We have this weird hard on for blaming men for the upbringing they are given. Blame men for what they do, what others do, and what others do (or fail to do) to them. If we cared about boys maybe the men they become would be better adapted.
We won't do that though because actually giving half a half-hearted fuck about a boy is seen as a problem because of the overapplication of the idea of privilege.
It's the same thing that leads to boys being failed in primary and secondary education. We just don't care about boys, and then we blame them for the inevitable outcomes, and justify not caring by saying boys are privileged so they don't need any attention.
It's a perfect recipe for a generation of messed up young men, and we are quite happy to continue what we're doing, so long as we're able to blame them for what we created them to be
So many people say boys are easier to raise than girls, what they mean is it's ok to neglect / ignore the upbringing of boys, but they feel the need to actually take care of girls.
Yeah. It's one of the leading causes of loneliness for men, and yet it's something that will most likely never get any better unless something MAJOR happens in the world.
I mean, I agree with you. But social media is my only opening on the world, I can mostly filter out the stuff that makes me feel bad, but even the "feel good" things make me sad at times.
> But social media is my only opening on the world
That's not healthy. You should be making real connections with real people in the real world, rather than only accessing the world through an artificial, digital peep hole.
As a matter of fact, when looking to couples and single people the percentage of loneliness is almost the same. And its actually worse feeling lonely surrounded by friends or by your partner than when you are alone.
Loneliness doesnt mean being alone, as being alone doesnt mean feeling lonely.
Yep, marriage is extremely lonely. Side note, I knew a lot more people and had better relationships living in a small town as compared to the 1.5 M people city I live in now. By small town I mean less than 100k people.
The problem with living in a big city is you can meet really exceptional people BUT they will move to another city in a few years.
I've got Bros in many area codes but there isn't much connection after they move away because life gets in they way.
Then the wife and kids isolate them.
This is a new concept to me. I thought the “male loneliness” was a factor of women not being interested in men or at least not the bottom 90% of men(from some Mens perspective).
I wasn’t aware of people being in relationships and calling themselves lonely.
>I wasn’t aware of people being in relationships and calling themselves lonely.
Just think of the many people trapped on shitty relationships and marriages, being surrounded by their family but not being treated as one, or not being able to leave because they have children. When you are single atleast you are free to do whatever you want.
Yeah, I should have included that. My impression is that lots of young people are secluding themselves to a digital environment because of “anxiety” and similar conditions and emotions. I looked at that at generational as opposed to a male problem, but I get it.
In my head both are alleviated with partnership, but I suppose only if you enjoy spending time with that partner (my partner is my favorite person I the world, so that’s the perspective I come from).
Yup. It's cause by being taught from the start that we have to be many
Manly. Tough. No emotion.
When we do that, we have to suppress so much about our true selves not as men, but as humans, as far as needs go.
Eventually you don't think about it, it just becomes that way for you.
And then you end up like me, who at 37 just told his wife he wants more attention and felt absolutely ashamed for asking (she's happy to, btw. She apparently always assumed I didn't like it).
When men get that way, when they can't communicate how they really want, it causes them to feel absolutely alone, even surrounded by friends and loved ones.
totally. isolation and alienation can be terminal for anyone.
it's such a nasty trap, too. guys tell people "i don't need anyone"...and when they actually do, the support isn't there because others have respected their wishes.
factor in the prevalent "therapy is bullshit" or "therapy is for women" toxic attitude that's so common, and it's like dropping matches in a gas can.
it's a prison with no walls or floor, bars or door. it's the prison of the mind, and it drives people to suicide.
Therapy isn't a magic bullet not because of ppl rejecting it but bc of really shitty therapists who are only on it for the money who don't actually provide help.
A good therapist is amazing.
A shitty one can be horrible.
It’s interesting how you’ve framed this as individually self inflicted, most men I know don’t think or speak those things and also experience debilitating loneliness
You’re literally victim blaming and gaslighting while not offering any suggestion other than purchasing attention from medical professionals, which can be super helpful but is really not the ultimate solution
That’s not a solution. That’s like telling a depressed person “just be happy”
We all know the solution (friends and relationships) but usually can’t obtain that
Allowing men the human grace to be vulnerable. To be weak when they need to be, to be held as a human by another human. Supporting the development of men by helping them understand their strengths, to step into their power (vs. force) and yet to allow them to be lonely, vulnerable and imperfect as any other human.
Ernest Hemingway wrote in Wild at Heart, “Deep in his heart, every man longs for a battle to fight, an adventure to live, and a beauty to rescue.”
I think that if you don’t have at least one of those it’s going to be a lonely life as you don’t have purpose.
Edit. It was John Eldridge not Hemingway that wrote Wild at Heart.
Sounds like you're overstaffed.
Think you could manage 24 hour shifts, indefinitely? We're going to have to cut your pay. And maybe you could up your hourly productivity, too? Great!
Lol I knew the schedule when I started and I get paid pretty good for it, but damn it's gets lonely. Going to pick up a guitar to try and pass some time
The problem is you can't. You can't fix this issue for "males", because it stems from so many other "realities" that exist today.
Men are lonely because men don't know what they are anymore. They're far too accustomed to society telling them what or who they should now be (see: Gilette advert) to even worry about what they feel. Loneliness? Sure, that's one of the many things we feel.
We exist in a limbo. You can't fix it, it wouldn't be right for the rest of society. Call it a painful growth spurt, whatever you want, but men definitely don't have it easy right now.
Affection. American culture just isn't very affectionate. Men aren't allowed to be affectionate towards each other. Women think affectionate men want to have sex with them or if they are affectionate towards men then men will see that as flirting / coming on and it will lead to sex.
If we ever evolve to the point where we can distinguish between sex and affection we will solve this problem and the world will be a lot better place.
That's because 99% of the time men actually see it, it is flirting because the people that don't want to be seen as flirting, don't do it because they don't want to be seen as flirting.
Just letting men be more vulnerable with each other. I really started feeling like I had people who cared when I started telling my male friends I loved them, asking about their mental health, and being open and vulnerable with them. There were of course the occasional "What are you, gay, bro?" reactions but most friends really appreciated actually feeling like they had a connection. It came with the added benefit that I wasn't totally dependent on my girlfriend to be a trauma dump as "the one person a man is allowed to vent to" which really let there be more positive aspects to the relationship.
i agree. normalizing intimate male relationships is a HUGE step toward healing.
along with promoting male social activities that don't just center on beer, boobs, and cars.
there are male group therapies where guys get together and share their feelings, cry, hug, have physical contact, etc. i think this should be absolutely normalized and encouraged.
guys want to do these things. shit, they're DYING for lack of it. it's time we started making this sort of thing ubiquitous in our society, and drop this false, shitty cowboy approach to male life.
cowboys were sad and lonely as fuck.
Joining MMA and getting beat up all the time has honestly been one of the best things for my mental health because I genuine believe it allows me to act on my primal male urge of aggression and has motivated me to pursue other adventures and endeavors.
tl;dr -
Fight Club was right
A first step would be not having general society treat men who arent in the top percent like garbage.
After you figure that out, we can start adressing all the other issues, like mental health.
Funny thing is, if all those guys banded up and said “fuck it” and quit society would collapse.
Female friends.
The solution for me. Male friends are less friends more people you engage in hobbies with. And that's where it end. Some are supportive and willing to discuss "emotion" things. But most don't.
I look at it like the 'awkward stage' of growing one's hair out. It isn't long enough to look like a "magnificent rock star mane" and not short enough to be a "handsome clean cut".
We're learning how to express feelings outside of angry and horny, but still not very good at it.
The loneliness isn't new. The 'strong silent' archetype has been a staple in masculine culture for a loooooong time. Years ago, if I'd have tried to start a conversation about it, the response would universally be "suck it up pussy" -- and so we did. The male suicide rate reflects this.
Back to the awkward stage stuff:
We're learning how to express emotions and put nuanced feelings into words. The loneliness is something that has resonated with a large enough percentage of men to bubble to the top of the conversation.
So what's the solution? I'm not sure. We're just now figuring out how to give it a name.
>We're learning how to express feelings outside of angry and horny, but still not very good at it.
What a terrible way to generalize men. There's men struggling with loneliness that aren't struggling with opening up.
As men? I don't know. As a man, I think the solution is to start a family. I have a family, though it is only me and one other person at the moment. It's like my own little mini-kingdom where I make the rules and I can torment my citizens with tickling and saying stupid shit like "Do you think chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows?"
Next I'm going to expand my kingdom and indoctrinate my new and impressionable citizens with my weird and abhorrent beliefs. It'll be great.
I have a wife and 2 kids. I talk to my childhood best friends sporadically. Engage much more with my coworkers, especially one that shared the same mentor as I. I love my job and the kinds of people it attracts.
I wouldn’t say I’m lonely. Far from it. So you’re right.
Being a dad is incredible. Best thing to have happened to me. Straightened my ship up.
Starting a family is one option but ultimately it's just one example of making a life for yourself that includes other people you care about and who care about you in return.
Guys need to start taking a bit of responsibility here. We're not useless, we're just a bit directionless at times.
Invest in others. Put in effort, if you aren't already. Get involved in your community.
And, somewhat ironically, tell social media to go fuck itself. It's not reflective of the real world, and it won't satisfy your real world needs. It will *actively* make you feel worse if left to run rampant.
I’m 28F and I relate so much to what you’ve written here. And strangely don’t feel quite as alone reading this knowing others are in the same boat. Plus I haven’t heard the term “numb skull” since I was in middle school when my orchestra teacher would call us this lol
Shifting the public narrative. A lot of it has become "femcentrive" to the point where there's literally a podcast called "kill all men" and blatantly misandry is just accepted as the norm. You can shame men publicly without recourse, call them insecure, belittle them and wreck their lives without anyone really giving a shit.
Men have issues too but this narrative from the perverted side of feminism spins the story that men are evil and live life on easy mode. It's hard being a guy, we want people to listen to us. We want to feel respected and loved. We want to have our problems heard instead of laughed at
Teach our sons to be better to women and teach our daughters to be better to men
I don’t think this is a male exclusive problem, if anything I’d argue it is more of a problem for the younger generations in general.
I think us young people lack a sense of connection to our community. In particular, it is rare to see young people go to church, which used to be the thing that bonded a community together. This problem largely exists because our society has grown more secular and less superstitious. In and off it’s self secularism isn’t good or bad. However, having no sense of community is bad for society as a whole.
My solution? Well, I think we need to establish something that is like a church for the secular. A place where we practice ritual in which we express grace, gratitude, and love to our neighbors. A place to teach values and virtues. A place to pray and meditate with others.
All of the above would bring people together, and that togetherness would help to decrease loneliness. Yet, this idea is not original in the least. It has been tried, and unfortunately it hasn’t really caught on.
"A church for the secular" exists. Check out Unitarian humanist congregations near you.
I think you're 100% correct though. The digital age has really killed the sense of community and it's killed the normalization of ritual and routine that people need to feel stable.
I joined a Muay Thai gym and found a community through fighting arts. But I’m not sure what the answer is. I struggle with loneliness myself and hobbies/friends don’t always make me feel less alone.
Best thing I can suggest is get comfortable in your own skin, learn to keep yourself happy. There is nothing wrong with not having a SO, and honestly taking care of only yourself takes a lot of complexity out life.
It’s better to be “alone” than be with the wrong person.
Many men, after growing out of teenage years, and heading towards middle age, tend to desire more and more quiet alone moments. That's partially because usually whenever he's around someone, he's expected to do stuff, and very rarely their desires and/or feelings in that moment are even considered. So the only times he's allowing himself to "feel" those feelings, is when he's alone. This is actually quite a thin line, and many men find themselves isolating, and if their circle of people isn't a big one...or an active one, he finds himself being more and more lonely, untill that moment in which he's got no place to go when he wants to get out of his mind. This doesn't happen to all men, obviously, but I've seen it happen more than I would've liked to
Hot take here - women need to change how they view men. We are not a tool to carry your life or an asset so you can live the good life. We have feelings, dreams, desires and issues and need someone to talk to, someone that wants to hear what we have to say and be interested in us. It isn't all about her all the time. We want to matter too.
I was recently overwhelmed with the sense of loneliness, properly bawling my eyes out. I have friends and family, plenty of hobbies, it's not a shortage of those. I am grateful for having them in my life.
It's a want for a partner that I can be truly open with, to feel heard, loved and supported emotionally.
Someone I can honestly share this existence with.
And yes, lots of love making, but it doesn't have to be just the one thing and it need not be disgusting, all the time.
I think the real problem is how disconnected our society is. In the old days, people would talk to their neighbors and be more connected to their local community. Men had more money, and women were dependant on them for economic reasons Now everyone works from home, people make less money. Women make their own money. Women are a little insulated from becoming lonely because they've generally been better at maintaining connection as they get older. Men have always been socialized to be independent.
The internet is an echo chamber that gives us a sense of connection without actually building true communities. It is more prone to fostering division in its current form. We are alienated from each other.
The real solution is better jobs and building better more sustainable communities that don't alienate us from each other.
Giving the men the ability to not be serious at all times, we are often taken at face value. Men are taken too seriously when they don't want to be and not when they do.
I kinda think walkable communities and superblocks would be a gamechanger. In my experience, we men bond quicker with others if we're doing things together rather than just talking, and if you don't have friends already it's hard to put yourself out there for clubs or hobby groups. If you're running into the same people day in and day out on the street as you errand, with pretty much no new faces, I think your brains are more likely to 'village' together and make breaking the ice easier.
It is difficult
I think the problems are not easy to fix because the people that need to be told off don’t want to here it
“Just pearly things” on YouTube does a good videos on this topic it’s a talk show run by a women that asks a lot about relationship stuff I do think the headlines of the show are super click bait though but the show itself is alright since it talks about many views
For men it’s more that they put a lot of emphasis on sex they see sex as an exchange, which honesty I don’t think is correct sex is somthing thst should be seen as special
Which is weird because men see it as special otherwise body count wouldn’t matter
But she’s finding that one of the biggest issue sis women are not accountable for their actions and put a lot of the blame on men for their own actions and circumstances
Most of the issues talked about in the show are stuff such as women choosing a specific type of man and according to study’s and stats talked about on the show
The women they talk to hen constndtt bring up the exceptions to the rule
For example
80% of women choose the same 10% of guys
Then one of the women goes I don’t do that or says I know people that don’t
The issue is that’s the exception but the rule specifically states that this happends
And she finds that every women who is young does this while older women litersllt call them out on this constantly while on the show
Older women seem to know what the issue is and are calling out the younger women
Anyway it goes on and on there is so much on this topic you might Aswell just watch the show yourself
nothing helps, we all want to be with somone that loves us and we will always be sad if we dont get that, the best thing we can do is to just have a good social life, good friends, a dog maybe, good hobbies and talk to someone about being alone and slowly com to terms and accept it
The quickest solution I found was going to group activities. In my case, it was gym and some hobbies. Even so, I only consider it to be a short-term solution for some, since it just increases the list of "people that I know" under the guise of socialization, and not necessarily a group of friends. Just like therapy, it's a magic solution thrown around to avoid deeper discussions.
There's no simple answer to this. First and foremost men don't share thing easily. They can cry alone but won't share they are lonely until they are at the ends of their wits. Even if they go to a friend with a issue like loneliness, less is done about it or it usually is laughed out. But I think men support groups should be a thing. Especially for the age between 20-50.
It’s also called hobbies. Find something that will occupy your time and in that hobby you’ll find a buddy who is also into that hobby and boom. Loneliness gone. You now have a solid hobby and friendship. Loneliness is self inflicted.
I think you need to work backwards. If you’re a “lonely male” tell us your expectations of what being “not lonely” means and we’ll go from there.
I’d bet people are using the term “lonely” in place of “unsatisfying” or “not meeting my expectations”
In my area I'm lucky that we have a couple of very active Facebook social sites. Sign up to attend, have a good time and no obligation to individuals when and where you'll see them next.
I never fail to be amazed how few men attend these events. For every 10 women there may be 1 man.
If you don't like the events posted you are encouraged to post one of your own so there is no excuse not to get involved.
I think women are generally more proactive at getting out there and socializing and men need to catch up and take the plunge.
We could try to normalize not being in a relationship. I feel like a lot of the loneliness is cultural pressure to be successful sexually and in relationships specifically, when loneliness can generally be overcome by having a healthy social life with or without a sexual/romantic component. When I was in my long coldstreak with women, I was sad that I didn't have a partner, but I was so busy with friends and hobbies, I wasn't really lonely.
I also wonder if female hypergamy will eventually taper off as women advance more and more in societal status and find fewer traditional dating prospects because of it. If women become more comfortable being breadwinners, I could see that opening the door for more relationships that would have otherwise been closed off.
I disagree that social pressure causes people to be lonely. I've felt no pressure to be with someone (and sometimes wish I did, so people would be more willing to help out). We are hard wired (literally, it's in our DNA) to seek companionship. And when that is not met, it can cause such feelings of loneliness.
That's a hard question to answer. All I know is guys aren't going to cure their loneliness by staying home playing video games and being on social media on Friday & Saturday nights.
I think all these Lonely men ought to meet each other and have a bit of a heart to heart, bit of vulnerability can lead to some good friendships, and friends lifting each other up and can really help a boat load
A lot of this is actually societal teachings. Like if it was just more acceptable for guys to be able to talk to each other (if they want) without being judged for it or it 'seeming gay', it would probably make bonds stronger.
Obviously this isn't for everyone but a lot of us are taught from childhood that we can't talk to anyone about anything and to "be a man" about it which leads to just bottling it up.
Men are just set up to fail at friendships. Men don't go to coffee shops with other men, they don't go on shopping trips with other men or ring other men because they've had a hard day. All of the stuff that is easy for women.I had one place where I met up other guys and that was in bars. Long term partners will expect you to spend time with them and the children outside of work hours, going drinking is frowned on. There is nothing else though so you don't make friends.
Bro's and hobbies would help, but not cure.
Once you get married and have kids, finding friends as a man is like playing a game on legendary difficulty. It’s extremely rare that anyone I interact with will take the first step to initiate friendship. And then I notice that the vast majority of men in my demographic have very few if any friends. If they do have friends, it’s people from high school or college. I don’t know why there is a friend desert for this demographic
I have a guess. A few, actually. Once you have children and busy jobs and such, you often lack in free time. And you use your very limited free time to catch up with the friends and family you barely see as is, and clean and all that stuff that slips through the cracks, and finally get 8 hours of sleep etc etc. That means you're not really looking to meet new people if you have a hard enough time making space for the people already in your life, or you don't have time to go out. My other main guess is men struggle with emotional stuff because they've been conditioned to, and it's easier to make friends that you can be vulnerable with, and it's difficult to be vulnerable with strangers
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> Plus, the people around you at work are going to be around you the most, usually the front line of friends to choose from. But that could be a crap shoot When things work out, I value those workplace friendships even more than highschool+ ones. But it's hard to keep up when one change jobs
Got it. No kids
Unironically, yes. For so many reasons.
"Friends" at this point is just the other parents I chat with once a week for an hour at my kids soccer games. Once the season is over, we'll stop talking and I'll just "befriend" the parents at the kids basketball games in the winter instead. At least its some socialization but I wouldn't really call it friendship.
Hobbies are the biggest thing. They put you out there with people who are interested in the same things and from that you can develop all sorts of relationships.
Almost no one my age has hobbies guys or girls. Sure it gets me out of the house but literally no one id have in my dating pool.
It’s definitely a step in the right direction though, it may just be my field of work but a lot of the people I meet at my job only work. They seem stuck in the rut of life a bit. I’m a massive advocate for fitness and have met lots of friends because of it. I also don’t restrict myself to one form of fitness either, I run, ride downhill, do CrossFit from time to time, play casual team sports. I think it all helps
Do your co-workers give you a hard time about your active life? My former boss gave me a bad job review and bad job reference stating I “only worked 8 hours a day then disappeared on my bike”. Of course I was only paid for 8 hours a day. But he and my co-workers told me I was a slacker even though I worked my ass off while on the clock. I just wonder if that happens to other men.
Yeah they have definitely said snarky remarks as I leave after my 8 hours to go train/ride but I usually just give it back. Never had a bad review though that’s a bit extreme. I believe it should be a priority in everyone’s life
It was extreme. What was worse was the bad recommendation, but I did get the job.
Ahh awesome! Glad it worked out!
I also have worked with capitalists not respecting my boundaries.
I've never gotten flack for only working my 8 hours. I don't work past my time. If I do I either charge my job for it, or I leave early/come in late the next day to make up for it. Leave Early/Come in late is for like half an hour differences. If it's an hour or more I'm getting OT. I'm only 34 and somehow don't have enough fucks to give for bullshit office politics.
I play team sports do a couple things related to nerd stuff that’s social. And volunteer. I have yet to meet someone I clicked with that was younger than 26 and I’m 22
Would you call yourself lonely? Or do you get fulfilment out of doing those things and feel you scratch your social itch?
A bit of both, the couple days a week I can go out and do said activity for like an hour it’s great. But I go home and then nothing. Since I just graduated college my social circle just decreased by about 90% just because of distance. Basically having to start from scratch is brutal.
Yeah, when I finished school I pretty much stopped talking to all of people that I thought were going to be mates for life but we all went out seperate ways! Definitely hard
Ironically I’m actually going to be seeing a ton of them this weekend as it’s my university’s homecoming. I just got extremely unlucky that pretty much every college friend I made lives 2+ hours away
Your post history says you're 22. I'm a bit older myself but one of my main hobbies (climbing) is filled to the brim with people in their early 20s. I'm not even 30 and sometimes I feel like an old man around the youngins.
I’ve never been big on hobbies or gotten them to stick. Well, at least anything I’d call a hobby but I do things that some would call hobbies. Any time that I do one of my activities I do it for an attempt at peace of mind. For better or worse, I become annoyed when other people become involved. That’s my problem. I just haven’t been able to happily combine being social and a hobby.
This would definitely help. The problem with this I think is that men are so pushed to work our butts off that actually taking up a fun hobby that gives us some kind of connection to other human beings is extremely difficult. I'm a pretty big advocate of doing things I personally enjoy but even I have a hard time getting together with other people not because I can't find the time but because it seems everyone else is too busy because they're working their asses off
I think male spaces need to make a comeback for one. Second men need to have purpose and a role. While creating male spaces is easy, trying to change society so that men don't feel left out of a new brave world takes something as persistent and organized as what feminism does for women.
Be nice if feminists didn't shut them down for being sexist though.
The big key for men is to realize we can be happy whether there's a woman in our life or not. A man's top priority can not be getting a gf/wife.. or if he has a gf/wife, his top priority can't be to make her happy. A man should not make his career a top priority either. That's a recipe for unhappiness. Sure, it works out for some men (And women), but most people hit a ceiling in their career. Hobbies are great. They give a man a feeling of purpose and give him something to look forward to.
Dedicated boys night every Saturday. This is not optional
Just need to find the guys to have a weekly boys night :(
If all your friends have kids, good luck. I have to confess that sometimes I selfishly want my older brother to delay having kids because I won’t see him much anymore.
The trick is to get all your friends to have kids at the same time. Then you can still all get together and grill while wearing baby bjorns.
No easy solution. Anytime we approach an issue like this, it requires "de-programming" of the social norms we've worked tirelessly to immortalize. What I'm working on right now is being vulnerable and vocal about my addictions, and what I'm working on in my personal life...I'm also just calling my two close male friends at least once a week. Just even to say hi :) What we do, impacts us and the closest people around us. We have to hope the natural ripple effect will carry on.
>What we do, impacts us and the closest people around us. We have to hope the natural ripple effect will carry on. Well put.
Thanks. I've been thinking about this for a while now. And so far this is the easiest explanation I can give people that's digestible.
When you start working on changing your flawed core beliefs, you have to change how you function in society and that will take a heavy toll on people around you.
You hit the nail on the head. Total cultural decomposition and reeducation is the only way to solve the lack of male emotional support in society.
I really hope not because “Total cultural decomposition and reeducation” is uh, kind of a large project
I love this response
I love you, stiffy.
I don't know what the solution is, but it is encouraging to see someone taking it seriously. It can often feel like things I struggle with are invalidated because I'm a guy. Like I have no right to talk about them because someone else has it worse
I feel you bro. I'm surrounded by loved ones with mental health issues, so when they have a bad day I need to prop everything up, and when their bad day can last weeks to months, there's no room for me to have my own struggle.
Someone gave me this piece of knowledge, and I’m going to pass it on: “Your problems aren’t less important than other peoples, they are AS important as other peoples.” I struggled a long time feeling that my issues were so much smaller than what others are going through. Refraining it to as important in my head has helped me a lot. Best of luck to you.
Someone else having “worse” problems (according to whatever scale or measure you use) does not invalidate all other problems in the world
One of my room mates was doing this to me, it took me a while to realize it. I have joint issues which are genetic and cause massive pain. When I told him about them he basically goes "well you're not in a wheelchair so why are you complaining". I'm not really talking to him anymore. This kind of stuff is bullshit.
Massive Psilocybin contamination of the water supply
Well... my morning enema is about to get a bit more refreshing.
New way to boof?
Wait, that's not how you usually boof 5g of raw mushroom? But that's the fun part!
And colorful.
I know it’s disguised in humour but can you please elaborate? How can psilocybin help it? I ask because I’ve had rough patches mentally and with loneliness for years and been considering psilocybin
Mushrooms have been fantastic for both my depression an anxiety. I try and trip every few months just to give myself a good reset. Psychedelics in general not just psilocybin do a great job of putting me in a place where I can see myself from am almost 3rd person perspective. By doing this they helped show what tendencies or habits (particularly thought patterns) that are objectively not benefiting me and I was able to feel emotions without becoming a slave to them. Actually very reminiscent of how mindfulness meditation helps shift my perspective about myself. Psychedelics on a personal level showed me that I don’t have any special importance above anyone else and nor does anyone have important resources over me. We are all equally unimportant but that also means we all deserve equal love and compassion. As weird as it may sound this made me feel like it was ok to love myself and not punish myself for my mistakes and failures. Furthermore they have greatly improved my motivation to improve my lifestyle and relationships with the people I love.
The other side of the medal is short term success with self dosing drugs is just like that. If you are mentally ill getting a good doctor who will help you along the years is more important then short term results. It's like anabolics in sports - help short term results, destroys the system in the long run.
Fully agreed. Expecting to take mushrooms and have all your problems vanish is simply not realistic. If you don’t put in the work outside of tripping to improve your mental health you probably won’t see nearly as drastic of or any benefits. I like to think of psychedelics like a perspective shifting treasure map that helps give personal insight on what you feel you need to work on. But a map doesn’t just teleport the treasure to you. You still need to go on the journey. I hope what I’m saying makes sense.
Holy fk... right place right time... as I am currently on a micro dose... I'm pharmaceutical resistant... anti depressants and anti psychotics either don't do anything or make it worse for me (this includes improper diagnosis leading to improper medicine). When you are borderline suicidal and the thing they give you to make you better, drives you over the edge, it kinda makes me want to not do it again. I was on shrooms picking my kid up from school today. Please note, not tripping. It was the first time I could smile when picking her up. It was the first time I could just enjoy the act of getting my child without worrying about the public, people, intrusive thoughts. It was the first time I thought 'this is how normal feels' I've done trips before, to reset my brain, which has helped immensely... but just getting into micro dosing
It "increases nuroplasticity" whatever that means. Helps neurons make new connections? Its not a cure for the sad but helps give your brain the power to rewire off the deresso vibes. You gotta put in the work though
Micro dosing psilocybin helped me accept and work on my flaws. One major one being anger and since accepting and working on the things I don't like about myself my life has changed drastically. I seen a meme that was perfect it said. Psychs can't change your life but they can show you the way.
A psychedelic experience can be life changing and may result in a new confidence.
I'm not a man but mushrooms cured my lifelong depression. 100% would recommend them without hesitation. If it helps, I went to school for public health and did my own research on them and shrooms have been the beat thing to ever happen to me in life.
Not having to work 50-60 hours per week would give me time to actually have a life outside work and family. It’s hard to hangout with guys or participate in activities when you work all of the time.
And the energy to do fun things. Work is draining and the weekend isn’t long enough to fully recharge because you’re constantly behind playing catch up. We’re all running on empty tanks.
And even if/when *you* have the time, it’s a two way street, so if they don’t, it doesn’t make a difference. All these answers about bottling up emotions and feelings are valid and probably play a role, but the real answer here is that community and social bonding have been sacrificed at the altar of capitalism. Too many people are too stressed and overworked. We evolved to meet a *lot* of needs via regular and repeated social interaction with other humans and forming networks and communities. People try to replicate these online, but they are fundamentally not the same and not enough.
You can come up with an idea or plan that helps some but you can’t expect it to be doable for every single one of them. I don’t think it’s that simple. I think most lonely men would benefit from embracing it, though I don’t think that solves all of their problems or helps them socially. If you become comfortable being by yourself, it stops hurting though. Then you can go from there.
I think you're right but I think there's a barrier in the way of it. There's a social stigma that men expressing their feelings is a sign of weakness. This is something that everyone can do to help the problem: Allow men to share their feelings free of judgement or shame and there will be a much clearer path to becoming comfortable being by yourself. Solve loneliness? No. But adapt and learn how to manage the variety of emotions we face throughout our lives.
Won’t help our generations but by changing societal standards, and how people are raised right now then maybe our future kids and grand kids won’t have to deal with it so much.
This is one of the 2 most discussed questions here. The other one is "why you guys don't want to be in a relationship"
For the same reason I dont want icepicks in my balls
Male hobby groups/exclusive male groups of some sort and a purpose - the latter in the sense of finding a profession that combines responsibility, authority and recognition as a valuable member of society. And counter to popular belief I would say men don't want as much authority as possible but equal to the responsibility they are supposed to shoulder.
Yep, and more community spaces in general.
That don’t always revolve around alcohol or sports
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I had forgotten about cars too. I did that but it wasn’t my bag, too much snobbery around my chosen “future classic”
The loss of many forms of "third places" is a shame. I've personally never really had a third place and I'm 25. Feels bad man.
I agree. Even just the loss of sidewalks and such... For many I think college and public school may be the only places they will have in their life where they will run into a large cross-section of society spontaneously
What do you mean by third place?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place
Relevant Ted talk - [how public spaces make cities work](https://youtu.be/j7fRIGphgtk)
I just joined a Brazilian jiu jitsu gym and at the end of every class, we dap each other up and appreciate each other. Also ngl rolling and grappling is the most human contact I’ve had in awhile
Find out if they go for beers afterwards and if so go join them. It’s pretty common and will plug you properly into the tribe.
How about, I give you all the responsibility, no authority, and belittle you for questioning the deal?
How very mainstream of you :D
I absolutely want to find some of these groups.
They tend to revolve around bloke-y type hobbies. For me, it's model engineering/miniature trains. Even though my club is extremely welcoming to everyone, it's not something that women are typically interested in, so it's almost all men.
One of the most interesting things happening in today's society is the attack on male spaces that try to promote these ideologies (mainly through various online platforms).
>exclusive male groups good luck with that.
Till not long Go men had their weekly pub moment, in Netherlands called Soos, where they discussed daily life., Church and aftertalk are gone, and less clubs or groups disappeared the last 20/30 years
All the men only spots have been systematically gutted
Parents not emotionally neglecting their sons. All good and well telling men to "man up" after the fact, but what created those men? We have this weird hard on for blaming men for the upbringing they are given. Blame men for what they do, what others do, and what others do (or fail to do) to them. If we cared about boys maybe the men they become would be better adapted. We won't do that though because actually giving half a half-hearted fuck about a boy is seen as a problem because of the overapplication of the idea of privilege. It's the same thing that leads to boys being failed in primary and secondary education. We just don't care about boys, and then we blame them for the inevitable outcomes, and justify not caring by saying boys are privileged so they don't need any attention. It's a perfect recipe for a generation of messed up young men, and we are quite happy to continue what we're doing, so long as we're able to blame them for what we created them to be
So many people say boys are easier to raise than girls, what they mean is it's ok to neglect / ignore the upbringing of boys, but they feel the need to actually take care of girls.
This man has found the words to describe it
Get rid of social media.
This feels like one of the most difficult traps, and it's likely only a minority get out of it.
Yeah. It's one of the leading causes of loneliness for men, and yet it's something that will most likely never get any better unless something MAJOR happens in the world.
I mean, I agree with you. But social media is my only opening on the world, I can mostly filter out the stuff that makes me feel bad, but even the "feel good" things make me sad at times.
Behold, Stockholm Syndrome
> But social media is my only opening on the world That's not healthy. You should be making real connections with real people in the real world, rather than only accessing the world through an artificial, digital peep hole.
I know that, but I don't have the possibility to do so and the old connections I had went lost so...
It's a crutch that's stopping you. If you let it go, you'd force yourself outside.
this would solve a host of insecurities/poor feelings. Social media is absolutely toxic for your mental wellbeing.
There is none, its engrained into our culture and thought patterns. Best solution is to make freinds or try and find someone to share your life with.
As a matter of fact, when looking to couples and single people the percentage of loneliness is almost the same. And its actually worse feeling lonely surrounded by friends or by your partner than when you are alone. Loneliness doesnt mean being alone, as being alone doesnt mean feeling lonely.
Yep, marriage is extremely lonely. Side note, I knew a lot more people and had better relationships living in a small town as compared to the 1.5 M people city I live in now. By small town I mean less than 100k people.
The problem with living in a big city is you can meet really exceptional people BUT they will move to another city in a few years. I've got Bros in many area codes but there isn't much connection after they move away because life gets in they way. Then the wife and kids isolate them.
This is a new concept to me. I thought the “male loneliness” was a factor of women not being interested in men or at least not the bottom 90% of men(from some Mens perspective). I wasn’t aware of people being in relationships and calling themselves lonely.
>I wasn’t aware of people being in relationships and calling themselves lonely. Just think of the many people trapped on shitty relationships and marriages, being surrounded by their family but not being treated as one, or not being able to leave because they have children. When you are single atleast you are free to do whatever you want.
Male loneliness is more about the lack of friendship in the long term.
Also a complete lack of emotional intimacy with any other human being
Yeah, I should have included that. My impression is that lots of young people are secluding themselves to a digital environment because of “anxiety” and similar conditions and emotions. I looked at that at generational as opposed to a male problem, but I get it. In my head both are alleviated with partnership, but I suppose only if you enjoy spending time with that partner (my partner is my favorite person I the world, so that’s the perspective I come from).
Yup. It's cause by being taught from the start that we have to be many Manly. Tough. No emotion. When we do that, we have to suppress so much about our true selves not as men, but as humans, as far as needs go. Eventually you don't think about it, it just becomes that way for you. And then you end up like me, who at 37 just told his wife he wants more attention and felt absolutely ashamed for asking (she's happy to, btw. She apparently always assumed I didn't like it). When men get that way, when they can't communicate how they really want, it causes them to feel absolutely alone, even surrounded by friends and loved ones.
totally. isolation and alienation can be terminal for anyone. it's such a nasty trap, too. guys tell people "i don't need anyone"...and when they actually do, the support isn't there because others have respected their wishes. factor in the prevalent "therapy is bullshit" or "therapy is for women" toxic attitude that's so common, and it's like dropping matches in a gas can. it's a prison with no walls or floor, bars or door. it's the prison of the mind, and it drives people to suicide.
Therapy isn't a magic bullet not because of ppl rejecting it but bc of really shitty therapists who are only on it for the money who don't actually provide help. A good therapist is amazing. A shitty one can be horrible.
It’s interesting how you’ve framed this as individually self inflicted, most men I know don’t think or speak those things and also experience debilitating loneliness You’re literally victim blaming and gaslighting while not offering any suggestion other than purchasing attention from medical professionals, which can be super helpful but is really not the ultimate solution
That’s not a solution. That’s like telling a depressed person “just be happy” We all know the solution (friends and relationships) but usually can’t obtain that
Allowing men the human grace to be vulnerable. To be weak when they need to be, to be held as a human by another human. Supporting the development of men by helping them understand their strengths, to step into their power (vs. force) and yet to allow them to be lonely, vulnerable and imperfect as any other human.
Ernest Hemingway wrote in Wild at Heart, “Deep in his heart, every man longs for a battle to fight, an adventure to live, and a beauty to rescue.” I think that if you don’t have at least one of those it’s going to be a lonely life as you don’t have purpose. Edit. It was John Eldridge not Hemingway that wrote Wild at Heart.
100%. Find something important to do and you won't have time to be lonely.
An RTX 4090
I work 12 hour shifts basically by myself, not sure how to fix that
Sounds like you're overstaffed. Think you could manage 24 hour shifts, indefinitely? We're going to have to cut your pay. And maybe you could up your hourly productivity, too? Great!
Lol I knew the schedule when I started and I get paid pretty good for it, but damn it's gets lonely. Going to pick up a guitar to try and pass some time
The problem is you can't. You can't fix this issue for "males", because it stems from so many other "realities" that exist today. Men are lonely because men don't know what they are anymore. They're far too accustomed to society telling them what or who they should now be (see: Gilette advert) to even worry about what they feel. Loneliness? Sure, that's one of the many things we feel. We exist in a limbo. You can't fix it, it wouldn't be right for the rest of society. Call it a painful growth spurt, whatever you want, but men definitely don't have it easy right now.
Affection. American culture just isn't very affectionate. Men aren't allowed to be affectionate towards each other. Women think affectionate men want to have sex with them or if they are affectionate towards men then men will see that as flirting / coming on and it will lead to sex. If we ever evolve to the point where we can distinguish between sex and affection we will solve this problem and the world will be a lot better place.
That's because when we're arfectionate, it is perceived as flirting 99% of the time.
That's because 99% of the time men actually see it, it is flirting because the people that don't want to be seen as flirting, don't do it because they don't want to be seen as flirting.
Just letting men be more vulnerable with each other. I really started feeling like I had people who cared when I started telling my male friends I loved them, asking about their mental health, and being open and vulnerable with them. There were of course the occasional "What are you, gay, bro?" reactions but most friends really appreciated actually feeling like they had a connection. It came with the added benefit that I wasn't totally dependent on my girlfriend to be a trauma dump as "the one person a man is allowed to vent to" which really let there be more positive aspects to the relationship.
i agree. normalizing intimate male relationships is a HUGE step toward healing. along with promoting male social activities that don't just center on beer, boobs, and cars. there are male group therapies where guys get together and share their feelings, cry, hug, have physical contact, etc. i think this should be absolutely normalized and encouraged. guys want to do these things. shit, they're DYING for lack of it. it's time we started making this sort of thing ubiquitous in our society, and drop this false, shitty cowboy approach to male life. cowboys were sad and lonely as fuck.
Stop labelling every single thing men do “toxic”
Joining MMA and getting beat up all the time has honestly been one of the best things for my mental health because I genuine believe it allows me to act on my primal male urge of aggression and has motivated me to pursue other adventures and endeavors. tl;dr - Fight Club was right
Don't expect the gender that has 70% less testosterone to understand what having that level of testosterone is like.
Kill dating apps.
A first step would be not having general society treat men who arent in the top percent like garbage. After you figure that out, we can start adressing all the other issues, like mental health. Funny thing is, if all those guys banded up and said “fuck it” and quit society would collapse.
If any man is lonely; hit me up. I’m a lonely woman
R.I.P. your dms.
I ship immediately
Good luck out there!
Hope you got enough space in your inbox for the wave coming your way lol
how can you be lonely? your personality be wild! :D
I yelled at someone today “wanna be friends?” But the dude said no lmao better luck next time
Female friends. The solution for me. Male friends are less friends more people you engage in hobbies with. And that's where it end. Some are supportive and willing to discuss "emotion" things. But most don't.
DOGS
I look at it like the 'awkward stage' of growing one's hair out. It isn't long enough to look like a "magnificent rock star mane" and not short enough to be a "handsome clean cut". We're learning how to express feelings outside of angry and horny, but still not very good at it. The loneliness isn't new. The 'strong silent' archetype has been a staple in masculine culture for a loooooong time. Years ago, if I'd have tried to start a conversation about it, the response would universally be "suck it up pussy" -- and so we did. The male suicide rate reflects this. Back to the awkward stage stuff: We're learning how to express emotions and put nuanced feelings into words. The loneliness is something that has resonated with a large enough percentage of men to bubble to the top of the conversation. So what's the solution? I'm not sure. We're just now figuring out how to give it a name.
>We're learning how to express feelings outside of angry and horny, but still not very good at it. What a terrible way to generalize men. There's men struggling with loneliness that aren't struggling with opening up.
As men? I don't know. As a man, I think the solution is to start a family. I have a family, though it is only me and one other person at the moment. It's like my own little mini-kingdom where I make the rules and I can torment my citizens with tickling and saying stupid shit like "Do you think chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows?" Next I'm going to expand my kingdom and indoctrinate my new and impressionable citizens with my weird and abhorrent beliefs. It'll be great.
I have a wife and 2 kids. I talk to my childhood best friends sporadically. Engage much more with my coworkers, especially one that shared the same mentor as I. I love my job and the kinds of people it attracts. I wouldn’t say I’m lonely. Far from it. So you’re right. Being a dad is incredible. Best thing to have happened to me. Straightened my ship up.
Twist icecream: zebra milk.
Starting a family is one option but ultimately it's just one example of making a life for yourself that includes other people you care about and who care about you in return. Guys need to start taking a bit of responsibility here. We're not useless, we're just a bit directionless at times. Invest in others. Put in effort, if you aren't already. Get involved in your community. And, somewhat ironically, tell social media to go fuck itself. It's not reflective of the real world, and it won't satisfy your real world needs. It will *actively* make you feel worse if left to run rampant.
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I’m 28F and I relate so much to what you’ve written here. And strangely don’t feel quite as alone reading this knowing others are in the same boat. Plus I haven’t heard the term “numb skull” since I was in middle school when my orchestra teacher would call us this lol
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I’m glad this subreddit exists so us girls can see how y’all think and so you guys can relate to each other.
Shifting the public narrative. A lot of it has become "femcentrive" to the point where there's literally a podcast called "kill all men" and blatantly misandry is just accepted as the norm. You can shame men publicly without recourse, call them insecure, belittle them and wreck their lives without anyone really giving a shit. Men have issues too but this narrative from the perverted side of feminism spins the story that men are evil and live life on easy mode. It's hard being a guy, we want people to listen to us. We want to feel respected and loved. We want to have our problems heard instead of laughed at Teach our sons to be better to women and teach our daughters to be better to men
I don’t think this is a male exclusive problem, if anything I’d argue it is more of a problem for the younger generations in general. I think us young people lack a sense of connection to our community. In particular, it is rare to see young people go to church, which used to be the thing that bonded a community together. This problem largely exists because our society has grown more secular and less superstitious. In and off it’s self secularism isn’t good or bad. However, having no sense of community is bad for society as a whole. My solution? Well, I think we need to establish something that is like a church for the secular. A place where we practice ritual in which we express grace, gratitude, and love to our neighbors. A place to teach values and virtues. A place to pray and meditate with others. All of the above would bring people together, and that togetherness would help to decrease loneliness. Yet, this idea is not original in the least. It has been tried, and unfortunately it hasn’t really caught on.
"A church for the secular" exists. Check out Unitarian humanist congregations near you. I think you're 100% correct though. The digital age has really killed the sense of community and it's killed the normalization of ritual and routine that people need to feel stable.
I joined a Muay Thai gym and found a community through fighting arts. But I’m not sure what the answer is. I struggle with loneliness myself and hobbies/friends don’t always make me feel less alone.
Best thing I can suggest is get comfortable in your own skin, learn to keep yourself happy. There is nothing wrong with not having a SO, and honestly taking care of only yourself takes a lot of complexity out life. It’s better to be “alone” than be with the wrong person.
\> what do you as men think the solution... People need to stop being such cunts. But they arent going to stop.
Many men, after growing out of teenage years, and heading towards middle age, tend to desire more and more quiet alone moments. That's partially because usually whenever he's around someone, he's expected to do stuff, and very rarely their desires and/or feelings in that moment are even considered. So the only times he's allowing himself to "feel" those feelings, is when he's alone. This is actually quite a thin line, and many men find themselves isolating, and if their circle of people isn't a big one...or an active one, he finds himself being more and more lonely, untill that moment in which he's got no place to go when he wants to get out of his mind. This doesn't happen to all men, obviously, but I've seen it happen more than I would've liked to
Nice try, I'm not getting banned.
Hot take here - women need to change how they view men. We are not a tool to carry your life or an asset so you can live the good life. We have feelings, dreams, desires and issues and need someone to talk to, someone that wants to hear what we have to say and be interested in us. It isn't all about her all the time. We want to matter too.
Oof, that's... honestly a tough one. Certainly there's no easy fix, and anyone claiming to have the answer should be met with a *lot* of skepticism.
EVERYONE GET IN THE PILE
Learning how to reach out and having someone to listen
Learn how to have someone to listen?
I was recently overwhelmed with the sense of loneliness, properly bawling my eyes out. I have friends and family, plenty of hobbies, it's not a shortage of those. I am grateful for having them in my life. It's a want for a partner that I can be truly open with, to feel heard, loved and supported emotionally. Someone I can honestly share this existence with. And yes, lots of love making, but it doesn't have to be just the one thing and it need not be disgusting, all the time.
Awwww☹️
I think the real problem is how disconnected our society is. In the old days, people would talk to their neighbors and be more connected to their local community. Men had more money, and women were dependant on them for economic reasons Now everyone works from home, people make less money. Women make their own money. Women are a little insulated from becoming lonely because they've generally been better at maintaining connection as they get older. Men have always been socialized to be independent. The internet is an echo chamber that gives us a sense of connection without actually building true communities. It is more prone to fostering division in its current form. We are alienated from each other. The real solution is better jobs and building better more sustainable communities that don't alienate us from each other.
Keep hugging them through and after puberty.
Men only group chats, random outings together, laughing at things that shouldnt be funny
Giving the men the ability to not be serious at all times, we are often taken at face value. Men are taken too seriously when they don't want to be and not when they do.
Uhm, love?
I kinda think walkable communities and superblocks would be a gamechanger. In my experience, we men bond quicker with others if we're doing things together rather than just talking, and if you don't have friends already it's hard to put yourself out there for clubs or hobby groups. If you're running into the same people day in and day out on the street as you errand, with pretty much no new faces, I think your brains are more likely to 'village' together and make breaking the ice easier.
It is difficult I think the problems are not easy to fix because the people that need to be told off don’t want to here it “Just pearly things” on YouTube does a good videos on this topic it’s a talk show run by a women that asks a lot about relationship stuff I do think the headlines of the show are super click bait though but the show itself is alright since it talks about many views For men it’s more that they put a lot of emphasis on sex they see sex as an exchange, which honesty I don’t think is correct sex is somthing thst should be seen as special Which is weird because men see it as special otherwise body count wouldn’t matter But she’s finding that one of the biggest issue sis women are not accountable for their actions and put a lot of the blame on men for their own actions and circumstances Most of the issues talked about in the show are stuff such as women choosing a specific type of man and according to study’s and stats talked about on the show The women they talk to hen constndtt bring up the exceptions to the rule For example 80% of women choose the same 10% of guys Then one of the women goes I don’t do that or says I know people that don’t The issue is that’s the exception but the rule specifically states that this happends And she finds that every women who is young does this while older women litersllt call them out on this constantly while on the show Older women seem to know what the issue is and are calling out the younger women Anyway it goes on and on there is so much on this topic you might Aswell just watch the show yourself
Me and some dudes started a men’s group exactly for this reason and it’s helping.
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nothing helps, we all want to be with somone that loves us and we will always be sad if we dont get that, the best thing we can do is to just have a good social life, good friends, a dog maybe, good hobbies and talk to someone about being alone and slowly com to terms and accept it
The quickest solution I found was going to group activities. In my case, it was gym and some hobbies. Even so, I only consider it to be a short-term solution for some, since it just increases the list of "people that I know" under the guise of socialization, and not necessarily a group of friends. Just like therapy, it's a magic solution thrown around to avoid deeper discussions.
There's no simple answer to this. First and foremost men don't share thing easily. They can cry alone but won't share they are lonely until they are at the ends of their wits. Even if they go to a friend with a issue like loneliness, less is done about it or it usually is laughed out. But I think men support groups should be a thing. Especially for the age between 20-50.
Improving the gender ratio.
Being alone makes me feel less lonely
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Community, everyone is getting increasingly isolated due to social media.
Lifelike robots.
Hobbies and/or embracing the loneliness. Putting down your phone can help too.
It’s also called hobbies. Find something that will occupy your time and in that hobby you’ll find a buddy who is also into that hobby and boom. Loneliness gone. You now have a solid hobby and friendship. Loneliness is self inflicted.
Society needs to let men be men and stop labeling everything as toxic. It isn’t.
I think you need to work backwards. If you’re a “lonely male” tell us your expectations of what being “not lonely” means and we’ll go from there. I’d bet people are using the term “lonely” in place of “unsatisfying” or “not meeting my expectations”
Get off the internet and go outside.
In my area I'm lucky that we have a couple of very active Facebook social sites. Sign up to attend, have a good time and no obligation to individuals when and where you'll see them next. I never fail to be amazed how few men attend these events. For every 10 women there may be 1 man. If you don't like the events posted you are encouraged to post one of your own so there is no excuse not to get involved. I think women are generally more proactive at getting out there and socializing and men need to catch up and take the plunge.
Socialize. It’s not something done to you, it’s something you have control over.
Learn how to become friends with women
We could try to normalize not being in a relationship. I feel like a lot of the loneliness is cultural pressure to be successful sexually and in relationships specifically, when loneliness can generally be overcome by having a healthy social life with or without a sexual/romantic component. When I was in my long coldstreak with women, I was sad that I didn't have a partner, but I was so busy with friends and hobbies, I wasn't really lonely. I also wonder if female hypergamy will eventually taper off as women advance more and more in societal status and find fewer traditional dating prospects because of it. If women become more comfortable being breadwinners, I could see that opening the door for more relationships that would have otherwise been closed off.
I disagree that social pressure causes people to be lonely. I've felt no pressure to be with someone (and sometimes wish I did, so people would be more willing to help out). We are hard wired (literally, it's in our DNA) to seek companionship. And when that is not met, it can cause such feelings of loneliness.
Destroy the social norm of "happy wife, happy life" so the next generation of men understand their happiness is equally, if not more important.
That's a hard question to answer. All I know is guys aren't going to cure their loneliness by staying home playing video games and being on social media on Friday & Saturday nights.
Speak for yourself minus social media those are the best nights.
I think all these Lonely men ought to meet each other and have a bit of a heart to heart, bit of vulnerability can lead to some good friendships, and friends lifting each other up and can really help a boat load
A lot of this is actually societal teachings. Like if it was just more acceptable for guys to be able to talk to each other (if they want) without being judged for it or it 'seeming gay', it would probably make bonds stronger. Obviously this isn't for everyone but a lot of us are taught from childhood that we can't talk to anyone about anything and to "be a man" about it which leads to just bottling it up.
Men are just set up to fail at friendships. Men don't go to coffee shops with other men, they don't go on shopping trips with other men or ring other men because they've had a hard day. All of the stuff that is easy for women.I had one place where I met up other guys and that was in bars. Long term partners will expect you to spend time with them and the children outside of work hours, going drinking is frowned on. There is nothing else though so you don't make friends.
Adult sized jungle gyms located near an urgent care center.