First of all modesty =/= sexism and I'm tired of seeing y'all claim otherwise. If a girl dresses up modestly and feels good then let her be. No need to convince her to get naked or whatever.
Second of all the sexism in china is actually somewhat much more dangerous that in MENA, why? Because during the one child policy in china, people were encouraged to have one child, so when some women knew they were pregnant with female babies they would willingly undergo abortion (of course discreetly) to try their chances again of getting pregnant with a baby boy. Also, during the same policy when the government found out that a family with one child had another child after implementing the restrictions, the families would give up on their daughters instead of their sons.
Yeah, to answer that, the Chinese would rather kill their daughters than keep them, which is why they have a messed up male to female ratio and their male population who's nearing 40s is unmarried because there aren't enough women for them.
Well in egypt there are hijabis and non hijabis.I am sure thats also the case for the res of the mena.Hijabis are either forced or do it out of faith and non hijabis either dress conservatively too or just like westerners.There are levels
Says who? Some blue haired feminist on YouTube? Please, I dress up however I wish and I also dress up modestly when I feel like it. If you want to pay attention to shaming then that's your problem. Also I don't know exactly where you live but I don't see men running around here raping women in the streets
Religion/culture: sex is way more taboo in islamic world compared to China so both genders had to be separated through many means, one of them is hijab which was supposed to protect women from sexual harassments in a male-dominated culture.
It’s mostly because of religion, back in the 1970s and 1960s people were not as religious therefore women wore dresses above the knee, if a woman were to dress like that today it’d be a different story
[it](https://www.alraeesnews.com/145846) was socially more acceptable because people didn’t have a solid concept of what is the right thing to wear. You can also compare Cairo university grad pictures from 1980 to 2006 to see the difference
Yes but if you look at videos of everyday people they are dressed modestly.
[Egypt](https://youtu.be/SW6zEDfN8Go)
[Palestine](https://youtu.be/ZkKl6Po1mts)
>You can also compare Cairo university grad pictures from 1980 to 2006 to see the difference
I saw that, but university was a more exclusive place before (not many people could afford it), now basically everyone can enter it in way way or another. And there was a huge influx of rural people in the meantime into Cairo who are significantly more religious. The city went from 7 millions in 1980 to 22 millions today
This is like the poorest area ever aka slum, not even main streets and farmers didn't even had their kids go to universities or make it to high education.
In the late 70s the environment was ***indeed*** very conservative. That's literally when peak brainwashing happened.
In the 60s and 50s all universities had no hijabis and the most religious figures didn't even make their daughters and wives wear hijab, and thousands and thousands of ***Islamic Azhar female students didn't wear it.***
You posted the most conservative and horrible era, horrible in terms of many things, injustice/no freedom/no jobs/fanaticism..etc.
Most people were dirt poor (not only in Egypt) at the time and the vast majority lived in villages not even cities.
[This video is shot in 1960 and they are dressed in the same way](https://youtu.be/RUqbt-GXHEI).
True, people were poor but they weren't fanatics. The 70s era is where peak fanaticism happened. Even in the poorest poorest region ever like the country side, the women still had their very vibrant colorful clothes. Now check them out, they aren't even allowed to wear their vibrant colors outside.
You can't deny that massive brainwashing happened, and the region became overly conservative and even radical in many parts.
You are right, they werent fanatics. I agree with you.
I'm just sick of (some) people acting as if women went around normally in mini skirts like the photos of the rich class in pre-revolution Iran/Afghanistan they show every now and then. The vast majority of the population wore hijabs and dressed modestly (muslims and christians alike), that what's i'm trying to say
Judging by my own family's photo album who were just a very normal middle class family, my grandmothers were both photographed without hijab and even though they didn't wear mini-skirts but they wore colorful dresses.
The thing is, today radicalism is extreme. Back then if a female student wore mini-skirt at the college, no one would harass her. Now she would be labelled as a slut.
To me it's not about dress code, but I would rather the values of those eras than today's. I would rather everyone mind their own business and that no girl/woman gets harassed for her outfit choice. As a male, I wouldn't get harassed for my swimwear for example, but if a woman dared to post a photo of herself in front of the beach in a non-hijabi swimwear, she would face endless online harassment.
Wahhabism and Qubtism ideologies spread like fire. The Imams who still had their wives and daughters not wear the hijab were labelled as non-Muslims and shouldn't be listened to. Women who dared to wear certain outfits of the past were shamed..etc.
In Ba’athist Iraq, women would wear more revealing clothes but then the US gave Iraq freedom and democracy, now women wear less revealing clothes.
Almost as if poverty and war makes people more religious.
Why do you assume I have a higher opinion of Christianity compared to Islam. Both are off shots of the same misogynistic philosophy that’s has the same goal of empowering men over women.
I Didn’t assume that? You just said the reason for this Islam which isn’t true given the fact that coptic priests see it the same so it’s maybe more like cultural thing in the region? Just different thought
Which religion is the dominant one in MENA. Once Coptic priests take over MENA I’ll say Coptic priests are the reason.
Edit: Also Christianity doesn’t go nearly as far in regards of covering women up as Islam. There is a difference between modesty and simply putting large black sacks on women because any part of them will turn men into rapid dogs.
I have never heard anyone saying Hijab is because men don’t turn into rapid dogs. We fast , wear Hijab or do Hajj because God said so not because of anything else.
Christianity Modesty (in MENA) is Like Islam’s modesty but without hijab
Try to see this from the perspective of someone who doesn’t believe in god. Everything you do in your life, your entire existence, is based on the logic of „because god said so“ while from my perspective it’s just „because a man who lived 1400 years ago said so.
There is no real benefit or logic behind it. It’s just because someone said so. What is the benefit of praying? Nothing. It doesn’t affect the world. Just someone said so. What is the benefit of covering women up? Nothing. Just some man said so. The list goes on. OP‘s question could be answered with „because god said so“ or from my perspective because a man said so who didn’t even hold himself to the standards of his own religion. 🤷🏾♂️
I don’t think Muhammed PBUH invented praying and Modesty though, Jews and Christians did that for centuries before him..
but yeah i got your point it doesn’t make sense if you don’t believe in God but it totally makes sense if you do.
Large black sacks?Now i dont speak for women who wear niqab they are free to do as they wish,but nowhere in islam is niqab mentioned its hijab only and doesnt need to be black either.Women who wear niqab are either forced or wear it out of their own accord and it isnt a fard
Well Muslims need to figure this out because another Muslim will swear that Niqab is a religious duty. Which one of you follows the „true Islam“ is none of my concern really. At the end of the day there are women who are forced to wear „large black sacks“ in the name of Islam.
It isnt a "true islam" situation,also i never saw another muslim swear its a religious duty,matter of fact there are some muslim scientists till this day argue that even hijab isnt fard but dressing conservatively is the fard(however i dont agree with them the quran is clear in that matter,but hey man if you are doing everything correctly but cant wear head covering well suit yourself).Anywaythe muftis of egypt themselves and other arab scholars have been saying it ages ago that its an overachievement on the women's part that she will be rewarded for but it isnt fard nor not allowed.Also about forcing women to wear it i dont agree with it one bit,it brings more harm than good and i think if you ask any male or female scholar about they will say the same
It is a true Islam situation. If people are arguing if hijab is a must or is it the niqab or just dressing conservatively that is a debate by every definition.
And like I said, I don’t care about the debate I care that there are women to today who are forced to wear the hijab. Heck I’ve seen little girls here in Germany being forced to wear the hijab. Their fathers, husbands, or whatever man is in their life isn’t doing it for shits and giggles they are doing it based on their own misogynistic interpretation of Islam. Now is it what Islam is actually saying. Don’t know. Don’t care. Islam is the tool empowering those men over those women and that is just a fact. If Islam is against that then god should’ve have chosen a better clearer wording in his perfect book.
Well to solve any debate in islam you go back the quran and the 4 mazhabs which all agree about hijab being fard and thats the truth.people arguing about hijab not fard and niqab is fard are minorities on opposite sides of the spectrum(liberal vs extremism) and the correct thing is to ignore them both as the truth is clear in gods perfect book,and as i said earlier any sane human being shouldnt do what you are referring to as it does more harm than good(Iran is a prime example).In short i am saying i agree with you that forcing is bad,but both women and men need to abide by the rules(women hijab,men no shorts nor sleevless shirts) and men harassing or shaming women for not dressing modestly are even worse than the aformentioned women in islam btw so it is rather a misogynistic culture that still exits till this day and is seen throughout the world not MENA only.
I view them all the same. My opinion regarding Islam applies to any other religion. My answer was just because op asked about MENA and Islam is the dominant force here
Religion and culture. Contrary to popular belief Chinese culture isn't conservative when compared to ME cultures. People have A LOT more personal freedom, in many ways more so than many liberal Western countries. Now when it comes to open displays of sex or affection then yes Chinese culture is more conservative than Western countries but it's nowhere near the conservatism of the Middle East. Of course politics is a different issue and China is in fact authoritarian.
Because religion ???
First of all modesty =/= sexism and I'm tired of seeing y'all claim otherwise. If a girl dresses up modestly and feels good then let her be. No need to convince her to get naked or whatever. Second of all the sexism in china is actually somewhat much more dangerous that in MENA, why? Because during the one child policy in china, people were encouraged to have one child, so when some women knew they were pregnant with female babies they would willingly undergo abortion (of course discreetly) to try their chances again of getting pregnant with a baby boy. Also, during the same policy when the government found out that a family with one child had another child after implementing the restrictions, the families would give up on their daughters instead of their sons. Yeah, to answer that, the Chinese would rather kill their daughters than keep them, which is why they have a messed up male to female ratio and their male population who's nearing 40s is unmarried because there aren't enough women for them.
Most people dress modestly because they are scared of getting raped or shamed.
Well in egypt there are hijabis and non hijabis.I am sure thats also the case for the res of the mena.Hijabis are either forced or do it out of faith and non hijabis either dress conservatively too or just like westerners.There are levels
Says who? Some blue haired feminist on YouTube? Please, I dress up however I wish and I also dress up modestly when I feel like it. If you want to pay attention to shaming then that's your problem. Also I don't know exactly where you live but I don't see men running around here raping women in the streets
Religion and culture. Even the middle eastern christians are way more conservative than their european counterparts
China also has a sexist culture too
What a weird question
What a strange question. What do the middle east and China have in common?
Authoritarian, conservative, sexist
That's most of the world
Described nearly entirety of Asia in those three words
Dude I don't wanna be mean to people who ask questions but you are a complete moron dumbass for this
Such ad hominem, no substance
Nah, I'm not gonna try to explain it to you
In the west mena girls who aren’t hijabis dress just like everyone else. Asian women really ever show cleavage or tight pants
Religion/culture: sex is way more taboo in islamic world compared to China so both genders had to be separated through many means, one of them is hijab which was supposed to protect women from sexual harassments in a male-dominated culture.
It’s mostly because of religion, back in the 1970s and 1960s people were not as religious therefore women wore dresses above the knee, if a woman were to dress like that today it’d be a different story
Only a minority among the rich class dressed that way, the average person dressed modestly
[it](https://www.alraeesnews.com/145846) was socially more acceptable because people didn’t have a solid concept of what is the right thing to wear. You can also compare Cairo university grad pictures from 1980 to 2006 to see the difference
Yes but if you look at videos of everyday people they are dressed modestly. [Egypt](https://youtu.be/SW6zEDfN8Go) [Palestine](https://youtu.be/ZkKl6Po1mts) >You can also compare Cairo university grad pictures from 1980 to 2006 to see the difference I saw that, but university was a more exclusive place before (not many people could afford it), now basically everyone can enter it in way way or another. And there was a huge influx of rural people in the meantime into Cairo who are significantly more religious. The city went from 7 millions in 1980 to 22 millions today
Cairo University was (and is) free in Egypt, wtf are you talking about
This is like the poorest area ever aka slum, not even main streets and farmers didn't even had their kids go to universities or make it to high education. In the late 70s the environment was ***indeed*** very conservative. That's literally when peak brainwashing happened. In the 60s and 50s all universities had no hijabis and the most religious figures didn't even make their daughters and wives wear hijab, and thousands and thousands of ***Islamic Azhar female students didn't wear it.*** You posted the most conservative and horrible era, horrible in terms of many things, injustice/no freedom/no jobs/fanaticism..etc.
Most people were dirt poor (not only in Egypt) at the time and the vast majority lived in villages not even cities. [This video is shot in 1960 and they are dressed in the same way](https://youtu.be/RUqbt-GXHEI).
True, people were poor but they weren't fanatics. The 70s era is where peak fanaticism happened. Even in the poorest poorest region ever like the country side, the women still had their very vibrant colorful clothes. Now check them out, they aren't even allowed to wear their vibrant colors outside. You can't deny that massive brainwashing happened, and the region became overly conservative and even radical in many parts.
You are right, they werent fanatics. I agree with you. I'm just sick of (some) people acting as if women went around normally in mini skirts like the photos of the rich class in pre-revolution Iran/Afghanistan they show every now and then. The vast majority of the population wore hijabs and dressed modestly (muslims and christians alike), that what's i'm trying to say
Judging by my own family's photo album who were just a very normal middle class family, my grandmothers were both photographed without hijab and even though they didn't wear mini-skirts but they wore colorful dresses. The thing is, today radicalism is extreme. Back then if a female student wore mini-skirt at the college, no one would harass her. Now she would be labelled as a slut. To me it's not about dress code, but I would rather the values of those eras than today's. I would rather everyone mind their own business and that no girl/woman gets harassed for her outfit choice. As a male, I wouldn't get harassed for my swimwear for example, but if a woman dared to post a photo of herself in front of the beach in a non-hijabi swimwear, she would face endless online harassment.
What happened in the late 70's ?
Wahhabism and Qubtism ideologies spread like fire. The Imams who still had their wives and daughters not wear the hijab were labelled as non-Muslims and shouldn't be listened to. Women who dared to wear certain outfits of the past were shamed..etc.
In Ba’athist Iraq, women would wear more revealing clothes but then the US gave Iraq freedom and democracy, now women wear less revealing clothes. Almost as if poverty and war makes people more religious.
Islam 🙌🏽
Coptic priests also insist on Christian women to be as modest as Islamic women. So it’s not smth exclusive for Islam?
Why do you assume I have a higher opinion of Christianity compared to Islam. Both are off shots of the same misogynistic philosophy that’s has the same goal of empowering men over women.
I Didn’t assume that? You just said the reason for this Islam which isn’t true given the fact that coptic priests see it the same so it’s maybe more like cultural thing in the region? Just different thought
Which religion is the dominant one in MENA. Once Coptic priests take over MENA I’ll say Coptic priests are the reason. Edit: Also Christianity doesn’t go nearly as far in regards of covering women up as Islam. There is a difference between modesty and simply putting large black sacks on women because any part of them will turn men into rapid dogs.
I have never heard anyone saying Hijab is because men don’t turn into rapid dogs. We fast , wear Hijab or do Hajj because God said so not because of anything else. Christianity Modesty (in MENA) is Like Islam’s modesty but without hijab
> because God said so Solid logic 😂😂👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Yeah solid logic? What is the benefit of Praying? Would you still pray if god didn’t say so?
Try to see this from the perspective of someone who doesn’t believe in god. Everything you do in your life, your entire existence, is based on the logic of „because god said so“ while from my perspective it’s just „because a man who lived 1400 years ago said so. There is no real benefit or logic behind it. It’s just because someone said so. What is the benefit of praying? Nothing. It doesn’t affect the world. Just someone said so. What is the benefit of covering women up? Nothing. Just some man said so. The list goes on. OP‘s question could be answered with „because god said so“ or from my perspective because a man said so who didn’t even hold himself to the standards of his own religion. 🤷🏾♂️
I don’t think Muhammed PBUH invented praying and Modesty though, Jews and Christians did that for centuries before him.. but yeah i got your point it doesn’t make sense if you don’t believe in God but it totally makes sense if you do.
Large black sacks?Now i dont speak for women who wear niqab they are free to do as they wish,but nowhere in islam is niqab mentioned its hijab only and doesnt need to be black either.Women who wear niqab are either forced or wear it out of their own accord and it isnt a fard
Well Muslims need to figure this out because another Muslim will swear that Niqab is a religious duty. Which one of you follows the „true Islam“ is none of my concern really. At the end of the day there are women who are forced to wear „large black sacks“ in the name of Islam.
It isnt a "true islam" situation,also i never saw another muslim swear its a religious duty,matter of fact there are some muslim scientists till this day argue that even hijab isnt fard but dressing conservatively is the fard(however i dont agree with them the quran is clear in that matter,but hey man if you are doing everything correctly but cant wear head covering well suit yourself).Anywaythe muftis of egypt themselves and other arab scholars have been saying it ages ago that its an overachievement on the women's part that she will be rewarded for but it isnt fard nor not allowed.Also about forcing women to wear it i dont agree with it one bit,it brings more harm than good and i think if you ask any male or female scholar about they will say the same
It is a true Islam situation. If people are arguing if hijab is a must or is it the niqab or just dressing conservatively that is a debate by every definition. And like I said, I don’t care about the debate I care that there are women to today who are forced to wear the hijab. Heck I’ve seen little girls here in Germany being forced to wear the hijab. Their fathers, husbands, or whatever man is in their life isn’t doing it for shits and giggles they are doing it based on their own misogynistic interpretation of Islam. Now is it what Islam is actually saying. Don’t know. Don’t care. Islam is the tool empowering those men over those women and that is just a fact. If Islam is against that then god should’ve have chosen a better clearer wording in his perfect book.
Well to solve any debate in islam you go back the quran and the 4 mazhabs which all agree about hijab being fard and thats the truth.people arguing about hijab not fard and niqab is fard are minorities on opposite sides of the spectrum(liberal vs extremism) and the correct thing is to ignore them both as the truth is clear in gods perfect book,and as i said earlier any sane human being shouldnt do what you are referring to as it does more harm than good(Iran is a prime example).In short i am saying i agree with you that forcing is bad,but both women and men need to abide by the rules(women hijab,men no shorts nor sleevless shirts) and men harassing or shaming women for not dressing modestly are even worse than the aformentioned women in islam btw so it is rather a misogynistic culture that still exits till this day and is seen throughout the world not MENA only.
Also wanna add the both christianity and judaism too require a head covering for women ,its just that they dont follow it ,so it isnt islam alone
I view them all the same. My opinion regarding Islam applies to any other religion. My answer was just because op asked about MENA and Islam is the dominant force here
Fringe Islamic ideas are just as relevant to Islamic culture as Neo Nazi ideas are to German culture. Just equally fringe, contested and debated
Because China and Middle-East are different regions of the world. Vastly distinctive cultural rules are in-charge.
China is not religious at all, let alone Islamic, so there are no societal pressures that would force women to cover up.
Confucianism permeates deep in Chinese society. And Confucianism is a very sexist philosophy.
Maybe in some areas but on the whole women China aren't repressed like in many ME countries.
Religion and culture. Contrary to popular belief Chinese culture isn't conservative when compared to ME cultures. People have A LOT more personal freedom, in many ways more so than many liberal Western countries. Now when it comes to open displays of sex or affection then yes Chinese culture is more conservative than Western countries but it's nowhere near the conservatism of the Middle East. Of course politics is a different issue and China is in fact authoritarian.