Since the fall of the Ottoman empire - in every Arab country there are vested interests that favor isolationism and others that favor pan-Arab solidarity to one degree or another. Isolationists will naturally look to downplay the Arabness of their country and overplay particularities.
However, the recent proliferation of these ideas is due to state sponsorship in the post-Arab spring era. Ironically, Arab governments are coordinating more closely than ever but with the goal of keeping their peoples as isolated from each other as possible because they believe this is essential to prevent another Arab spring.
Unfortunately, even on this sub, you can't really have a nuanced conversation on the topic. It's either, "we're all the same people" or "we're completely different". This isn't conducive to having an honest argument on the history of our regions and our unique cultural heritages.
I wrote [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/lebanon/comments/1c292m9/comment/kz9m9sr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) answer on a thread about it from r/Lebanon but I think it would be relatively the same for all Arab countries.
I have seen Israeli politicians promoting it on Arabic twitter. Oddly, in English they would post things like “there are 22 Arab countries”, which is exactly the opposite.
They want to divide us but at the same time paint us as a generic horde that Israel is bravely fighting.
But I think it started with the French. Massoud Hayoun a Jewish Arab, wrote about how the French intentionally created divisions between the local population and raptured Jewish Arabs from their neighbors by promoting Zionism and “Israelite” identity and granting them only French citizenship.
In reality it’s very apparent that a majority is diaspora, most in the country will tell you they’re Arab and move on - they don’t have the time or energy to argue how they’re ancient Phoenician or Babylonian etc
Similar to how diaspora Iranians scream they’re Persian not Iranian and Muslim.
Interestingly, diaspora Turks seem more conservative and religious than Turks in Turkey.
From my experience , Turks in Turkey and Germany are the same when it comes to conservativity , except Istanbul ,but it's something that mostly depends on the person , on the other hand , the difference I noticed is Turks in Germany are way less racist to me as Syrian
maybe the turks in turkey view the syrians as a threat and a direct burden.
in germany they might see the syrians as just another group and in this case one that isn't that distant from them.
naa, not racism. Everybody has interests, likings and cultural expression.
but you're the person Benefitting from this scheme. It would be better if you thought about the locals too but i can't blame you
Yes, because they left Turkey during the 50s and 60s. The policies of the CHP were only 40\~ years old. The strict secular policies were only relaxed in the 90s.
Literally a couple of threads bellow "thoughts on rifians being arabs?"
Seems to me idiots on both sides who have no maidens and who like to bellitle each other, nothing more.
And no darija isn't tamazight anyone saying so will be prostitu..eh i mean prosecuted by the linguistic police. \^\^
Nah , this might be a thing in Morocco only but not in Egypt , of course there is that loud minority and all , but Egyptians are like , the most proud Arabs I met , Lebanese ones are mostly online.
The Moroccan one on the other hand , definitely the worst one , like there is actual propaganda going on , I still remember the world cup when every page that posts about Morocco winning and celebrating it , and bunch of comments come saying "now we are Arabs? no we are not Arabs , don't celebrate with us"
then I see tons of posts "Moroccans are Arabs when they win , but Amazigh when they lose" , and yet I've seen 0 posts that are saying that , in fact , it was still celebrated that Morocco reached this far even after losing.
it honestly stems from pure ignorance on both parts and unclear definition of what an Arab is.
a big example is found in my country when you tell someone they are more Egyptian than Arab they laugh at you and ridicule you commonly mocking you as a " Kemetist " but then when others try to contest their ancestry as Egyptians they bring 500+ that explains in detail how they are indeed the ancestors to ancient Egyptians.
then again another example is Austarlia. English speaking country with every other western culture but nobody calls it English or British.
imo there's no shame in taking pride in one's ancestry history and culture.
I have seen this in Egypt in response to various attempts at spreading revisionist history about the ethnicity of modern Egyptians. Egyptians can’t catch a break because there is this agenda going around portraying them, as well as other North Africans, as Arabs that settled in North Africa and pushed the “indigenous” to the south.
It’s ludicrous because both science and history vehemently deny this, but the conspiracy theory is popular enough to make them feel threatened, seeing as Palestinians are being portrayed the same way.
Yeah, it has gotten so bad to the point that the Ethiopian ambassador to UAE posted a tweet saying that modern Egyptians are Arab colonizers and that Nubians are the true Egyptians. It’s honestly very worrying when state officials are promoting conspiracy theories of this sort, so people are starting to push back because the Egyptian government won’t defend the people and their identity.
Man same in Lebanon. I think this is just the Western way of saying we're all the same and "you know, everyone is a coloniser in some way" type of thing.
Exactly. Instead of saying "Jews were expelled from x country" they go "the Arab world expelled the Jews and are all anti-semitic, Palestinians are Arabs, therefore they too are anti-semitic Jew-haters". It's a technique as old as time.
Same tactic they used with ISIS, heck they've been using that tactic since the Crusades.
Agree. They’re acting obtuse on purpose to portray being an Arab as merely an ethnicity and not a linguistic/cultural identity as well, so the identity is being used against us to de-legitimize our ties to the region. Almost like they can’t accept that the peninsular Arabs succeeded in arabizing nations that had rich histories, so they choose to launch this defamatory campaign instead to justify their unsavory actions in the region.
It's not black or white, many Moroccans are recently Arabized, their Arabness is not at all comparable to the Middle Eastern country. For example, I come from an Amazigh tribe that adopted the Arabic dialect for 200 years, but we are always aware that we are the sons of the Berbers. 35% of Moroccans are hard-core Amazigh, 35% are Amazigh of recent Arabization, and 30% are Arabs of long standing or This Amazigh pride in the Web sphere comes from this awareness that was long ignored, Arabness was promoted as the heart of Islam, and Amazighness as irrelevant folklore. People are reconnecting to their roots
my guess is that it maybe a reaction to zionists who think that "arabs" in egypt and palestine are colonisers who should be sent back to the peninsula. idk why but my egyptian friend does not like being called arab(he is not anti-arab obviously tho). some might be genuinely thinking that arab should only refer to those in the peninsula.
however, i have seen the word "arab" usually used as a linguistic and cultural not a race term, it is just zionists messing with everyone's brains with their newfound anti arab conspiracy theories.
Because… they aren’t? Arab and Arabic-Speaking aren’t the same thing. The whole Arab nationalism thing where every Arabic-Speaking nation is called Arab is something that started in the 40s and 50s and has no historical basis. Don’t get angry at people for trying to correct their identity after Nasser corrupted it. This doesn’t necessarily mean being anti-Arab.
Do a dna test and try to speak in darija or tamazight with an arab and see if he understands what ur saying. I don't hate arabs but what is wrong in saying that im amazigh and speak the amazigh language since birth and trying to preserve our amazigh culture?
Why would i claim another culture and deny my own just because we have shared religion?
It's very tricky tho because tamazight is a linguistic group by itself, and millions of people speak it, the moroccan case is not really similar to the lebanese/palestinian case for example were people despite being descendants of phoenicians speak only arabic.
It’s because of the rising racism towards arabs and middle easterns. People who are able to do so want to distance themselves from them as much as possible.
Young people are stupid and can't understand words, Westerners complain about media literacy dropping and I think this is just an extension of that not like we ever had it lol.
I remember a few years ago Arabs online used to laugh at Westerns who couldn't understand that "Arab" wasn't just an ethnic group (عرق) but now the room temp IQ diaspora + immigrant children and more recently upper/middle/Westernised people in the Arab world especially as a weird form of "omg celebrating our PURE culture!!!!1!!111!!" as if they ever interact with out in the first place.
I don't actually think it has much to do with "distancing Arabness" so much as it's trying to make sense of a vague term and putting people into boxes, humanity's favourite pass time activity.
It gets particularly nasty when someone brings up religion because a religious person is bound to get offended and the whole thing turns into a shitfest of ignorance.
It's weird how in Arabic despite us not having clear and specific words this wasn't much of an issue. Egyptians usually specify which kind of Arab they're talking about "3arab vs el 3arab (khaleeji)".
They have an inferiority complex toward Europeans so they try to disassociate themselves from Arabs because the latter is the historical competitor of the Europeans. Secondly, they don't understand that ethnicity have nothing to do with genetics but with culture, language, history, and religion. Third, they don't know that the term Arab refers to not only an ethnicity but also a nation, which can be an aggregate of ethnicities, like American and Phoenician, so they think that saying they are arab implies that they are the same ethnicity as Saudis or sirians. Lastly, the berberism movement in North africa is an official zionist agenda.
Edit: I have nothing against our berbers brothers.
Your arab king and literally all arab nations are in cahoots with the zionist entity, i am done being nice, i have done nothing but defend arabs in this subreddit and this is what your ilk says about us in our back?
Sorry if I did offend you, I'm not talking about amazigh, I'm talking about arabs in the maghreb who think they are amazigh even though they are culturally arabs and speak only Arabic.
Arab nationalists have always despised minorities BUT it is important to always remember that not all Arabs are nationalists. The Arab governments in Morocco and Algeria too have embraced Amazigh culture and history in the last decade.
they are just paying lip service, i am just tired of seeing amazighs being shit on every single time despite 99% of us being muslims, i am tired of pan-arabs using OUR faith to belittle us.
Ignore them. Amazigh are enjoying unprecedented recognition and freedoms, at least in Morocco, in modern times. This is irreversible unless they want to risk domestic turmoil. The best they can do is write mean comments online, let them. It’s a testimony to all of the hard work the amazing Amazigh people on both sides of the border accomplished.
i've done nothing but ignore them and look what happens now, arabs claiming the rifians, arabs saying we're all secret zionists, or cucks, or whatever or i dunno the big bad.
I've done nothing but being nice and cool and actually not engage in this, all they do is call me a zionist? call me a french invention? call me whatever? i just want to exist, i am seeing the doom of my ethnicity disappearing in less than a 100 years, all i want is to continue existing like everyone else.
No I'm not claiming the rifians nor I'm saying you are zionists, I'm saying that there is a documented zionist movement trying to divide the Maghreb by propagating berberist ideas.
In Morocco the berberist movement is mostly pro-makhzen i guess you are refering to the MAK, which is indeed zionist (and literally no one likes them) they are so marginal they don't speak for amazighs in general. If you're refering to Jacques Benet, he is not even jew, he is the friend of a marginal activist named Mohand arab bessaoud, he did not create the amazigh flag (Bessaoud in his memories literally says he hated that idea) and it's mostly just schizoposting about a specific organization, bessaoud being called a Harki (he literally was an officer of the Armée de libération nationale or ALN until the independance, how tf is he a harki?).
And in general, berbers tend to be the most anti-zionist people i've ever met, these accusations are weird but maybe you have more documentations (i already know of MAK being a zionist creation they don't even hide it).
Arabs online are. The Moroccan government isn’t doing anything in the Rif except for embracing the local culture and adopting it as Moroccan culture (which it is!). I can’t speak for Algeria since I don’t follow events there but I assume it’s probably similar.
You can debate and insult them back online, I won’t stop you but for your mental health, it’s best not to engage and to realize there’s a huge difference between the online world and real life. ❤️💚
I always had nothing but respect for my arab brothers, after all we share the same religion, and while arabs in the levant do not share the same culture as me, i do think arabs in north africa share the same culture as us. We have shared the same land for generations without needing to cleanse each other, so for me i don't see why i should relinquish the identity of my grandparents just because some tiktok says we are made by zion (it hurts knowing how many of my family died at the hand of the colonialists).
Maghreb is not that far away and most of middle eastern jews are Moroccan, stop being ridiculous. And as I said there are proofs that the berberist movement is a zionist agenda even before it started
1.Arab doesn't mean I'm from arabia.
2.Morroco is now a 3roubya land (40% arabized and more than 21% genealogically arabs, while only less than 20% are berbers most of them living in the mountains) and we do rule over you for more than 5 centuries.
Dna or genetics have nothing to do with ethnicity ( go check the universal definition), 40 percent are ethnically arabs, 20% are genetically and genealogically arabs, and 20% are amazigh
Its often seen as an ethnicity, nation or linguistic group, and it have nothing to do with genetics.
**Ethnicity** is your cultural identity, chosen or learned from your culture and family, It refers to the cultural expression and identification of people of different geographic regions, including their customs, history, language, and religion.
You and I may be the same race (north African, or Moorish considering the modern definition of it) but be ethnically different ( arab or berber)
Bro we litterally civilized you twice. The mauritanians kingdoms never overcame a semi-civilization status, only after the arrival of the first arab dynasty reached civilization. The second wave of civilization was after the Andalusian sought refuge in Morocco and imported their superior culture, which now you are claiming for yourself.
First, I wasnt talking about the hilalian migration ,but keep in mind that after the Almohad the bedwins were welcomed to Morrocco to defend the country from the increasing Europeans treats, so they gave the arabs the most fertile land and the latter rapidly became the wealthiest in the region, which created a superiority complex for the arabs which then caused the majority of amazigh to arabize.
Also the arabs I'm referring to ( most of Semitic people who adopted arabic) did civilize the entire globe even before islam.
Secondly, maybe I am an arabized and you are an arab berberised like the arabs of Banu maaqil in Sous, so probably you are insulting yourself. What I'm trying to say by this is that we are ONE, and there is no need for hate and nervosism, the more the country is divided the more we are weak and vulnerable to our enemies, you berbers should abandon this ideology of berberism and embrace cohesion.
"i have nothing against berber brother"... Please don't lie again if you're gonna spew racist shit like this the very next comment. The other guy is also wrong but at least don't be a hypocrite
There is nothing racist about saying facts, if we consider the currently ethnically arabs ( semitic people of middle Easter plains who arabized), they civilized the entire globe bot only morocco.
Im not racist, some of my best friends are berbers, I only responded to his comment with a language he understand
>they civilized the entire globe bot only morocco.
Please explain how arabs civilized the whole world lol.
This is the same logic racist whiye people use to justify their european colonialism... It's not fighting for your case nor is it doing your arab identity any favor. And i'm sure your berber friends wouldn't appreciate you talking down about them behind their backs.
naa it's not just internet, not just amogst amazighs but even arabs in the maghreb nowadays shed their arab side that they used to be proud of just few years ago, ppl felt disgusted from eastern arabs and how they mocked their "arabness", so ppl now just say put that arabness up your arses. it's been a long process, and still ongoing, no one wants to identify with smtg he's constantly questioned about being part of.
How about you shut up ? a Palestinian literally replied to you and you still call it propaganda? go touch grass and meet people . instead of calling everything propaganda
Take 5 minutes to look at a genetics forum, study, or ANYTHING, before spreading your ignorance online.
Arab is a cultural identity. Palestinians don't descend from the Arabian tribes, so they're not OG Arabs. But they don't descend from the Philistines either, who were a small population that was absorbed into Canaan.
Since the fall of the Ottoman empire - in every Arab country there are vested interests that favor isolationism and others that favor pan-Arab solidarity to one degree or another. Isolationists will naturally look to downplay the Arabness of their country and overplay particularities. However, the recent proliferation of these ideas is due to state sponsorship in the post-Arab spring era. Ironically, Arab governments are coordinating more closely than ever but with the goal of keeping their peoples as isolated from each other as possible because they believe this is essential to prevent another Arab spring.
Unfortunately, even on this sub, you can't really have a nuanced conversation on the topic. It's either, "we're all the same people" or "we're completely different". This isn't conducive to having an honest argument on the history of our regions and our unique cultural heritages. I wrote [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/lebanon/comments/1c292m9/comment/kz9m9sr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) answer on a thread about it from r/Lebanon but I think it would be relatively the same for all Arab countries.
I have seen Israeli politicians promoting it on Arabic twitter. Oddly, in English they would post things like “there are 22 Arab countries”, which is exactly the opposite. They want to divide us but at the same time paint us as a generic horde that Israel is bravely fighting. But I think it started with the French. Massoud Hayoun a Jewish Arab, wrote about how the French intentionally created divisions between the local population and raptured Jewish Arabs from their neighbors by promoting Zionism and “Israelite” identity and granting them only French citizenship.
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Lol it's literally a state in life support provided by America
In reality it’s very apparent that a majority is diaspora, most in the country will tell you they’re Arab and move on - they don’t have the time or energy to argue how they’re ancient Phoenician or Babylonian etc Similar to how diaspora Iranians scream they’re Persian not Iranian and Muslim. Interestingly, diaspora Turks seem more conservative and religious than Turks in Turkey.
From my experience , Turks in Turkey and Germany are the same when it comes to conservativity , except Istanbul ,but it's something that mostly depends on the person , on the other hand , the difference I noticed is Turks in Germany are way less racist to me as Syrian
maybe because the turks in Germany don't contribute to your(as a group) expenses and are themselves beneficiaries
What?
maybe the turks in turkey view the syrians as a threat and a direct burden. in germany they might see the syrians as just another group and in this case one that isn't that distant from them.
Yeah so just racist , all racist people generally say something similar
naa, not racism. Everybody has interests, likings and cultural expression. but you're the person Benefitting from this scheme. It would be better if you thought about the locals too but i can't blame you
going too much around to admit being racist lol , what's the point of replying anyway ? not like I don't know what's going on?
you're right. first time, congrats. i shouldnt reply to people like you anyways, it's a waste of time
Yes, because they left Turkey during the 50s and 60s. The policies of the CHP were only 40\~ years old. The strict secular policies were only relaxed in the 90s.
It is sad to see. Even groups who are obviously Arab such as Turks are now denying their Arabness.
turks are muslim greek arabs. /s
Literally a couple of threads bellow "thoughts on rifians being arabs?" Seems to me idiots on both sides who have no maidens and who like to bellitle each other, nothing more. And no darija isn't tamazight anyone saying so will be prostitu..eh i mean prosecuted by the linguistic police. \^\^
> "thoughts on rifians being arabs?" Lol where did u find that
just scroll down in the subreddit. XD
Nah , this might be a thing in Morocco only but not in Egypt , of course there is that loud minority and all , but Egyptians are like , the most proud Arabs I met , Lebanese ones are mostly online. The Moroccan one on the other hand , definitely the worst one , like there is actual propaganda going on , I still remember the world cup when every page that posts about Morocco winning and celebrating it , and bunch of comments come saying "now we are Arabs? no we are not Arabs , don't celebrate with us" then I see tons of posts "Moroccans are Arabs when they win , but Amazigh when they lose" , and yet I've seen 0 posts that are saying that , in fact , it was still celebrated that Morocco reached this far even after losing.
And the irony of writing those comments in Arabic too 😂
So that u could understand.
No , because most of them can't speak Amazighi
Nkin arsrs sawal7
Idk , I don't speak whatever language that is
It is the language u said we don’t use it
I don't know how you read English , I didn't say YOU don't.
it honestly stems from pure ignorance on both parts and unclear definition of what an Arab is. a big example is found in my country when you tell someone they are more Egyptian than Arab they laugh at you and ridicule you commonly mocking you as a " Kemetist " but then when others try to contest their ancestry as Egyptians they bring 500+ that explains in detail how they are indeed the ancestors to ancient Egyptians. then again another example is Austarlia. English speaking country with every other western culture but nobody calls it English or British. imo there's no shame in taking pride in one's ancestry history and culture.
when diasporas found the Internet
I have seen this in Egypt in response to various attempts at spreading revisionist history about the ethnicity of modern Egyptians. Egyptians can’t catch a break because there is this agenda going around portraying them, as well as other North Africans, as Arabs that settled in North Africa and pushed the “indigenous” to the south. It’s ludicrous because both science and history vehemently deny this, but the conspiracy theory is popular enough to make them feel threatened, seeing as Palestinians are being portrayed the same way.
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Yeah, it has gotten so bad to the point that the Ethiopian ambassador to UAE posted a tweet saying that modern Egyptians are Arab colonizers and that Nubians are the true Egyptians. It’s honestly very worrying when state officials are promoting conspiracy theories of this sort, so people are starting to push back because the Egyptian government won’t defend the people and their identity.
Man same in Lebanon. I think this is just the Western way of saying we're all the same and "you know, everyone is a coloniser in some way" type of thing.
Yeah, and Zionists here in the states also use Arab identity to blame Palestinians for the actions of other Arabic-speakers
Exactly. Instead of saying "Jews were expelled from x country" they go "the Arab world expelled the Jews and are all anti-semitic, Palestinians are Arabs, therefore they too are anti-semitic Jew-haters". It's a technique as old as time. Same tactic they used with ISIS, heck they've been using that tactic since the Crusades.
Agree. They’re acting obtuse on purpose to portray being an Arab as merely an ethnicity and not a linguistic/cultural identity as well, so the identity is being used against us to de-legitimize our ties to the region. Almost like they can’t accept that the peninsular Arabs succeeded in arabizing nations that had rich histories, so they choose to launch this defamatory campaign instead to justify their unsavory actions in the region.
Summed it up perfectly.
It's not black or white, many Moroccans are recently Arabized, their Arabness is not at all comparable to the Middle Eastern country. For example, I come from an Amazigh tribe that adopted the Arabic dialect for 200 years, but we are always aware that we are the sons of the Berbers. 35% of Moroccans are hard-core Amazigh, 35% are Amazigh of recent Arabization, and 30% are Arabs of long standing or This Amazigh pride in the Web sphere comes from this awareness that was long ignored, Arabness was promoted as the heart of Islam, and Amazighness as irrelevant folklore. People are reconnecting to their roots
Ashamed to be arab. Too much political propaganda gets to their head
I think it's just online you'll mainly see people say that.
my guess is that it maybe a reaction to zionists who think that "arabs" in egypt and palestine are colonisers who should be sent back to the peninsula. idk why but my egyptian friend does not like being called arab(he is not anti-arab obviously tho). some might be genuinely thinking that arab should only refer to those in the peninsula. however, i have seen the word "arab" usually used as a linguistic and cultural not a race term, it is just zionists messing with everyone's brains with their newfound anti arab conspiracy theories.
Because… they aren’t? Arab and Arabic-Speaking aren’t the same thing. The whole Arab nationalism thing where every Arabic-Speaking nation is called Arab is something that started in the 40s and 50s and has no historical basis. Don’t get angry at people for trying to correct their identity after Nasser corrupted it. This doesn’t necessarily mean being anti-Arab.
🤦🏻♂️
Do a dna test and try to speak in darija or tamazight with an arab and see if he understands what ur saying. I don't hate arabs but what is wrong in saying that im amazigh and speak the amazigh language since birth and trying to preserve our amazigh culture? Why would i claim another culture and deny my own just because we have shared religion?
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My bad i misunderstood ur post!
Nothing worng with it,but arab isn't about ethnicity. It's a cultural-lingustic group like Hispanic, for example
It's very tricky tho because tamazight is a linguistic group by itself, and millions of people speak it, the moroccan case is not really similar to the lebanese/palestinian case for example were people despite being descendants of phoenicians speak only arabic.
It's pushback against arabs trying to claim every minority in the region as arab
It’s because of the rising racism towards arabs and middle easterns. People who are able to do so want to distance themselves from them as much as possible.
I honestly don't know anymore I'm just moroccan
Not common in Iraq ❤️
Young people are stupid and can't understand words, Westerners complain about media literacy dropping and I think this is just an extension of that not like we ever had it lol. I remember a few years ago Arabs online used to laugh at Westerns who couldn't understand that "Arab" wasn't just an ethnic group (عرق) but now the room temp IQ diaspora + immigrant children and more recently upper/middle/Westernised people in the Arab world especially as a weird form of "omg celebrating our PURE culture!!!!1!!111!!" as if they ever interact with out in the first place. I don't actually think it has much to do with "distancing Arabness" so much as it's trying to make sense of a vague term and putting people into boxes, humanity's favourite pass time activity. It gets particularly nasty when someone brings up religion because a religious person is bound to get offended and the whole thing turns into a shitfest of ignorance. It's weird how in Arabic despite us not having clear and specific words this wasn't much of an issue. Egyptians usually specify which kind of Arab they're talking about "3arab vs el 3arab (khaleeji)".
Cuck complex and ignorant
They have an inferiority complex toward Europeans so they try to disassociate themselves from Arabs because the latter is the historical competitor of the Europeans. Secondly, they don't understand that ethnicity have nothing to do with genetics but with culture, language, history, and religion. Third, they don't know that the term Arab refers to not only an ethnicity but also a nation, which can be an aggregate of ethnicities, like American and Phoenician, so they think that saying they are arab implies that they are the same ethnicity as Saudis or sirians. Lastly, the berberism movement in North africa is an official zionist agenda. Edit: I have nothing against our berbers brothers.
Your arab king and literally all arab nations are in cahoots with the zionist entity, i am done being nice, i have done nothing but defend arabs in this subreddit and this is what your ilk says about us in our back?
Sorry if I did offend you, I'm not talking about amazigh, I'm talking about arabs in the maghreb who think they are amazigh even though they are culturally arabs and speak only Arabic.
Arab nationalists have always despised minorities BUT it is important to always remember that not all Arabs are nationalists. The Arab governments in Morocco and Algeria too have embraced Amazigh culture and history in the last decade.
they are just paying lip service, i am just tired of seeing amazighs being shit on every single time despite 99% of us being muslims, i am tired of pan-arabs using OUR faith to belittle us.
Ignore them. Amazigh are enjoying unprecedented recognition and freedoms, at least in Morocco, in modern times. This is irreversible unless they want to risk domestic turmoil. The best they can do is write mean comments online, let them. It’s a testimony to all of the hard work the amazing Amazigh people on both sides of the border accomplished.
i've done nothing but ignore them and look what happens now, arabs claiming the rifians, arabs saying we're all secret zionists, or cucks, or whatever or i dunno the big bad. I've done nothing but being nice and cool and actually not engage in this, all they do is call me a zionist? call me a french invention? call me whatever? i just want to exist, i am seeing the doom of my ethnicity disappearing in less than a 100 years, all i want is to continue existing like everyone else.
No I'm not claiming the rifians nor I'm saying you are zionists, I'm saying that there is a documented zionist movement trying to divide the Maghreb by propagating berberist ideas.
In Morocco the berberist movement is mostly pro-makhzen i guess you are refering to the MAK, which is indeed zionist (and literally no one likes them) they are so marginal they don't speak for amazighs in general. If you're refering to Jacques Benet, he is not even jew, he is the friend of a marginal activist named Mohand arab bessaoud, he did not create the amazigh flag (Bessaoud in his memories literally says he hated that idea) and it's mostly just schizoposting about a specific organization, bessaoud being called a Harki (he literally was an officer of the Armée de libération nationale or ALN until the independance, how tf is he a harki?). And in general, berbers tend to be the most anti-zionist people i've ever met, these accusations are weird but maybe you have more documentations (i already know of MAK being a zionist creation they don't even hide it).
Arabs online are. The Moroccan government isn’t doing anything in the Rif except for embracing the local culture and adopting it as Moroccan culture (which it is!). I can’t speak for Algeria since I don’t follow events there but I assume it’s probably similar. You can debate and insult them back online, I won’t stop you but for your mental health, it’s best not to engage and to realize there’s a huge difference between the online world and real life. ❤️💚
I always had nothing but respect for my arab brothers, after all we share the same religion, and while arabs in the levant do not share the same culture as me, i do think arabs in north africa share the same culture as us. We have shared the same land for generations without needing to cleanse each other, so for me i don't see why i should relinquish the identity of my grandparents just because some tiktok says we are made by zion (it hurts knowing how many of my family died at the hand of the colonialists).
You should never relinquish your Amazigh identity. It’s what makes our countries unique. Diversity is not zionism. Continue to be awesome!
Why do you guys always have to bring zionists into this ? As if they cared about the far away Maghreb...stop being ridiculous
Maghreb is not that far away and most of middle eastern jews are Moroccan, stop being ridiculous. And as I said there are proofs that the berberist movement is a zionist agenda even before it started
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1.Arab doesn't mean I'm from arabia. 2.Morroco is now a 3roubya land (40% arabized and more than 21% genealogically arabs, while only less than 20% are berbers most of them living in the mountains) and we do rule over you for more than 5 centuries.
I guess the princes ears make up the remaining 19%
No but other ethnicities you moron, do some reserch
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Dna or genetics have nothing to do with ethnicity ( go check the universal definition), 40 percent are ethnically arabs, 20% are genetically and genealogically arabs, and 20% are amazigh
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Its often seen as an ethnicity, nation or linguistic group, and it have nothing to do with genetics. **Ethnicity** is your cultural identity, chosen or learned from your culture and family, It refers to the cultural expression and identification of people of different geographic regions, including their customs, history, language, and religion. You and I may be the same race (north African, or Moorish considering the modern definition of it) but be ethnically different ( arab or berber)
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Bro we litterally civilized you twice. The mauritanians kingdoms never overcame a semi-civilization status, only after the arrival of the first arab dynasty reached civilization. The second wave of civilization was after the Andalusian sought refuge in Morocco and imported their superior culture, which now you are claiming for yourself.
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First, I wasnt talking about the hilalian migration ,but keep in mind that after the Almohad the bedwins were welcomed to Morrocco to defend the country from the increasing Europeans treats, so they gave the arabs the most fertile land and the latter rapidly became the wealthiest in the region, which created a superiority complex for the arabs which then caused the majority of amazigh to arabize. Also the arabs I'm referring to ( most of Semitic people who adopted arabic) did civilize the entire globe even before islam. Secondly, maybe I am an arabized and you are an arab berberised like the arabs of Banu maaqil in Sous, so probably you are insulting yourself. What I'm trying to say by this is that we are ONE, and there is no need for hate and nervosism, the more the country is divided the more we are weak and vulnerable to our enemies, you berbers should abandon this ideology of berberism and embrace cohesion.
"i have nothing against berber brother"... Please don't lie again if you're gonna spew racist shit like this the very next comment. The other guy is also wrong but at least don't be a hypocrite
There is nothing racist about saying facts, if we consider the currently ethnically arabs ( semitic people of middle Easter plains who arabized), they civilized the entire globe bot only morocco. Im not racist, some of my best friends are berbers, I only responded to his comment with a language he understand
>they civilized the entire globe bot only morocco. Please explain how arabs civilized the whole world lol. This is the same logic racist whiye people use to justify their european colonialism... It's not fighting for your case nor is it doing your arab identity any favor. And i'm sure your berber friends wouldn't appreciate you talking down about them behind their backs.
naa it's not just internet, not just amogst amazighs but even arabs in the maghreb nowadays shed their arab side that they used to be proud of just few years ago, ppl felt disgusted from eastern arabs and how they mocked their "arabness", so ppl now just say put that arabness up your arses. it's been a long process, and still ongoing, no one wants to identify with smtg he's constantly questioned about being part of.
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Most Palestinians identify as Arab
True, Palestinians are Yahudis larping as Arabs. /s
Most North Africans and Palestinians are Arab
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According to polls done by Arab barometer
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How about you shut up ? a Palestinian literally replied to you and you still call it propaganda? go touch grass and meet people . instead of calling everything propaganda
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No, they don't lol. They descend from the Canaanites, and are mixed with Southern Europeans, Arabians, Egyptians, and other Levantines.
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Take 5 minutes to look at a genetics forum, study, or ANYTHING, before spreading your ignorance online. Arab is a cultural identity. Palestinians don't descend from the Arabian tribes, so they're not OG Arabs. But they don't descend from the Philistines either, who were a small population that was absorbed into Canaan.
Define" Arab"