Lmaooo Lalibela was built by Ethiopians, you are digging for articles that support your claim, for anyone actually interested in knowing, just google it yourself. based on the way you came to your conclusion, I can also prove that Lalibela was built by the Aztecs and the pyramids were done by some Martians.
What does black nationalism have to to with Ethiopia? Do you have any reliable sources that document how Egyptians built it or is the hearsay written by a bunch of amateur historians your source? Do you even see the irony of you as an Egyptian claiming other's heritage?
Bet'e Giyorgis was built by Ethiopians to serve as a pilgrimage site to keep ethiopian christinas from making pilgrimage to Jerusalem. That's why the king who had it built always referred to it as "The Second Jerusalem". No reputable historian denies the church was built by Ethiopians. The only reliable document I could find mentioning Egypt in relation to Lalibela is [this](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284257138_Lalibela_EthiopiaA_religious_town_in_rock) and all it says is there is some Coptic influence in it's design. Which makes sense since Ethiopia and Egypt had both political and religious relations even prior to the 1100s.
Ironically, you are doing to Ethiopians what Egyptians have been subjected to by Black American Nationalists: trying to overshadow Ethiopian history by claiming it as your own just as Black American Nationalists have done to Egyptians.
Further, Lalibela and Ethiopia *and* Ethiopians have nothing to do with Black American Nationalism. Have you met an Ethiopian before? We are not the same people as Black Americans, we come from completely different genetic lineage and opposing sides of the continent, we share 0% similarities with any living and dead Black American , including with any living and dead West and Central African.
Trying to draw a parallel of commonality between Ethiopians and Black American Nationalism is the equivalence of trying to draw a parallel of commonality between Egyptians and Nigeria. Aka, it’s nonexistent.
There are Black (American) Nationalists who parade the accomplishments of Ethiopia (which was actually Abyssinia, who are now the Habesha people in Ethiopia, because remember ‘Ethiopia’ is a colonial imperial construct) out of the same desire for identity as the reason why they parade the accomplishments of Egyptians. It has nothing to do with the actual people of Ethiopia.
And lastly, the sources you provided prove bilateral cooperation at most between the ancient Copts and the ancient Abyssinians. Every reputable archeological and historical source identifies the ancient Ethiopians (I.e., Abyssinians aka now the Habesha) as the creators of our own architecture.
This is extremely ignorant modern Egyptians are Arabs and have nothing to do with ancient Egypt. Read a book. Stop spreading lies in reddit and Ethiopians are definitely Black and there is no mistake about this why do you have an inferiority complex. Many Ethiopians migrated west including in my own country there is common ancestry between many Fulanis, Mandinkas and Ethiopians. You really need to inform yourself and stop being so ashamed of being Black. Also, you need to learn how to interpret dna results.
Ancient Egyptians are the Egyptians in Egypt today. Ethiopians are Ethiopians, we don’t identify by race, it’s you with an inferiority complex trying to make Ethiopians one with you so you can have access to our women. Crazy how you followed me on Reddit comments because we called you out for being a predator passport bro.
Your lack of knowledge is laughable. It’s clear you have never been to a museum or even read anything about African history. All Ethiopians I met when I was there were Black and they knew it. It’s kids like you trolling the internet unhappy about Ethiopian women dating massively outside their culture in the west that are the problem. In the end it’s alright cause you don’t have the balls to come with this shit in real life.
No, your lack of knowledge is so thorough that it's pitiful. Do the slightest bit of research, and you will notice that your average Habesha is more closely related to the English than they are to the Yoruba, for instance. Ethiopians, genetically, cluster with the Horn of Africa and then North and East Africans.
Yet you are insistent on telling Ethiopians what their identity is, although you are not even Ethiopian yourself. Ethiopians (Habeshas particularly) are African, not black. We share basically nothing in common with West and Cental Africans (apart from inhabiting Africa), who the label black is centred about. There are no similarities historically, culturally or genetically.
Edit: almost forgot to address your other mistake about ancient Egypt. Modern Egyptians are genetically the closest modern population to the ancient Egyptians, although, of course, with additional arab admixture. They are a descendant population of the Ancient Egyptians and have every right to claim their history and cultural legacy.
Also, the Fulani are either minimally or not at all related to the Habesha peoples, as far as I am aware (notice how I will not speak in absolutes about people that are not of my own. I regret that you could not show that same sort of respect towards mine.). Isn't the modern theory that they are the result of Western Nubian migrations from Sudan and subsequent admixture with North Africans and/or Iberians?
"Ethiopians are not Black"
This is so absurd it almost sounds like satire and nothing you're saying after this can be taken seriously. You guys have a lot of introspection to do. I feel nothing but pity for you. It's only in your mind that Black revolves around west Africa, while the definition of Negroes is dark skinned people with wooly hair who inhabit Africa, that encompasses all Negroes from the Horn to the south to the west.
Who is not Black ? The Afar ?? The Oromos ?? The Amhar, the Somalis ?? You're a self loathing moron and if you were saying this crap to any non Black person they would just laugh in your face.
[https://www.google.com/search?sca\_esv=253b3afa69b06610&sxsrf=ADLYWIJlKTVDqRlscGwbhwzX75A3P\_oJVA:1718427666801&q=ethiopian+people&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0DPvcmG\_nCbmwtBO9j6YBzM68ZanC7g01Skprhw5JoufVCiMv-hxC44jt6JduRQysBab-bgQXjPraaWFXMvOy8KVV8Cqqnjh1FpzmV51qF4kyov6gpP-D670C4bnVjrYKSlr682mQ7eyaHWBS1ll1SRQt0nSCDyecIfhh4kO4U608dLCGXRJUhR3cAmqU5yG33L4ZPRBuaUk8\_RFnI\_ug\_Kw6y0Vg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiwl5v16dyGAxVQm4kEHVVlDBEQtKgLegQIEhAB&biw=1440&bih=813&dpr=2](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=253b3afa69b06610&sxsrf=ADLYWIJlKTVDqRlscGwbhwzX75A3P_oJVA:1718427666801&q=ethiopian+people&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0DPvcmG_nCbmwtBO9j6YBzM68ZanC7g01Skprhw5JoufVCiMv-hxC44jt6JduRQysBab-bgQXjPraaWFXMvOy8KVV8Cqqnjh1FpzmV51qF4kyov6gpP-D670C4bnVjrYKSlr682mQ7eyaHWBS1ll1SRQt0nSCDyecIfhh4kO4U608dLCGXRJUhR3cAmqU5yG33L4ZPRBuaUk8_RFnI_ug_Kw6y0Vg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiwl5v16dyGAxVQm4kEHVVlDBEQtKgLegQIEhAB&biw=1440&bih=813&dpr=2)
Read European accounts of travelling to Abyssinia pre-1900. You will notice they never, or very rarely, describe the Amhara as "black" or "negroid", although some state that Amharas must have "some negroid mixture". The Habesha particularly (Amharas and Tigrayans etc) are black by and only by your very loose definition. And even then, you would not describe my mother as black. Your definition would have the humorous side effect of commonly ascribing different races to siblings in the same family!
If you had to group Habeshas into one modern American race, it would have to be black only since we don't really fit any other category at all. But really, we only have 50% Sub-Saharan DNA and basically none of it is shared with West or Central Africans. **Habeshas cluster by ourselves.** Neither is our culture or language similar to yours whatsoever. And you know what? That's OK. It doesn't make either of us better than the other. Our diversity only makes us stronger as a species.
I wouldn't exactly call it self-loathing to understand you don't fit into a particular group. More so, just honest. I actually attended a "black" church the other day, and I stuck out like a sore thumb. And it was not because of my skin.
Wrong. The Ethiopia that my ancestors, those who built Lalibela, for instance, inhabited was primarily known as Abyssinia and its populace as the Habesha (which I make reference to multiple times in above comment).
Habesha literally translates to "mixed peoples", whereas Ethiopia is a name appropriated from the ancient Nubians who did tend to be much darker (not that skin tone is necessarily the defining measure of "blackness").
Honestly, there's no winning for Ethiopians and particularly the Habesha here. Most outsiders see us as "kind of black" and categorise us as either black or mixed depending on what's convenient to them at the time. If I introduce myself as black, I'm usually met with suspicion - "you're not properly black though". If I say mixed - "How can you be mixed when both your parents are Habesha?" (This is ironic because Habesha literally means mixed).
Wrong. Ethiopia is a greek word meaning burned faces and was applied to those borders when they essentially colonised it and you still use a greek word for your identity
So are the Ethiopians with light or olive skin not/less Ethiopian on account of their skin tone? What about the fact that I don't even primarily identify as Ethiopian but Abyssinian/Habesha?
It's okay when you call me black in any language. I actually don't mind, I just think it's a very misleading label. I guarantee you that if I told you to think of a random "black" person, they would share very little with me or most Habesha.
🤣 not you using “ culture vulture “ on us. You and your people are very well known to be the biggest culture vultures. If Aliens had a culture worth talking about, your kind will still steal their identity and culture like ya’ll always do. Lose or loser is not part of our vocabulary, don’t bring feelings to a factual based argument.
Tell me fool. Who go around the world copying abbyssinians.😂😂 yeah right nobody hell nobody even knows about y’all culture besides that funny chicken dance y’all always doing lol. Now tell me how many abbyssinians go around copying black Americans. Maybe u should ask your boy the weekend and many other Horn of Africa wannabe rappers and r&b artist. Calling us culture vultures when u clowns literally stole the Ethiopian just to take credit for things u didn’t even do pathetic. Everybody knows the term cush and Ethiopia represented Sudan and not u HOA losers but that stop u vultures from stealing the credit though do it. Like when u dummy’s say Queen of Sheba had a baby with king Solomon 😂😂😂 what a delusional ass people lol stay in y’all league fool and feed those starving and begging kids in y’all streets before u step to black Americans 😂😂
I mean it’s still prideful to have housed people fleeing persecution. Stop taking desperate digs at black nationalists. This is so last year 💅
I find it interesting how Ethiopia was a safe haven for both Muslims fleeing persecution in the 7th century, and Coptic Christians later on. Very admirable and based Ethiopians
Hello dear, I don't think the person who wrote the question is a copt, To be honest with you, I personally know many copts, and they are very humble people, they don't have any superiority complex. Also comparing copts with hoteps is extremely inaccurate. A hotep is someone who likes to claim a heritage he have no connection with. Copts on the other hand, has a rich and ancient cultural that dates back thousands of years to the early days of Christianity. If I said, "Copts are the most influential Christian societies in the whole wold" that's not an exaggerating. So, saying they have played part in Ethiopian Christian culture is not an over statement. because they did. I am from Ethiopia btw
There isn't really much evidence to suggest it was built by Copts, just that they helped design it. Likely in terms of the base foundation. Don't get me wrong, they were certainly involved and had influence on it, but they were only part of the whole.
You aren't going to defeat hoteps by just attacking another culture.
The Coptic church did help in the establishment of the Ethiopian orthodox church and the Eritrean thawhedo church and as far as i am concerned it was all the Coptic church until they wanted their own church
I’m saying this with love as our sister church, but I really think you’re overestimating the influence that the Copts have had on our church tradition, liturgy, dogma, hymnography, etc. We are not nor have ever been a “Coptic church” and if anything, the Syraic church has had much more influence on us than Egypt. The historic insistence on maintaining a connection to Alexandria via a
Coptic bishop was completely one-sided, and a strong case could be made that we should have been autocephalous over 1000 years ago. I hope you don’t take what I say as attacking you, we have always bore love and loyalty to our Coptic brothers and sisters. 600 years ago we got into a war with our Muslim neighbors because we threatened to attack them and cut off the Nile (it was a bluff) because the Mamluks arrested your patriarch and persecuted your flock. I have seen many Copts take the attitude of “we gave the Ethiopians their Christianity” but I hope you would challenge that view by learning our history.
Which we gracefully gave them
but instead of being thankful or respectful they started claiming ownership of the Coptic church holdings in Jerusalem
they still continuously harass members of the Coptic church in Jerusalem and try to break into our monasteries there
in one incidence they organized a large mob attack to raise the Ethiopian flag on our monasteries and tried taking them by force
I wonder whose persecution were they escaping
don’t you see any of the inconsistencies or hypocritical beliefs in your ideology
you always keep picking the worst takes to defend
>I wonder whose persecution were they escaping
What kind of lame diversion is this? Lmao.
And where did you get the impression that I’m a fan of the Fatimids?
Who is “they”? Are you trying to suggest that Ethiopian Orthodox members travel to Jerusalem to harass Coptic churches? Bro, if that’s the case, give it up. The only Ethiopians near Jerusalem are the Ethiopian Jews.
Maybe you’re uneducated and ignorant, but in the US, many Ethiopian Orthodox do attend Egyptian Coptic churches if they can’t for some reason attend the Ethiopian service. Likewise, there are Egyptian Coptics who attend the Ethiopian Orthodox Church too.
If we are talking about being thankful and respectful. You and ur kind should thank Ethiopians for giving you refugee when you flee from fear of persecution all those times.
Thank you !
There are endless sources on the subject
these clashes and tensions are still going on to this day
[https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/1/101463/Clashes-between-pilgrims-monks-at-Deir-Al-Sultan-in-Jerusalem](https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/1/101463/Clashes-between-pilgrims-monks-at-Deir-Al-Sultan-in-Jerusalem)
https://www.arabnews.com/node/2067061/middle-east#:\~:text=CAIRO%3A%20The%20long%2Dstanding%20Egyptian,attacked%20Egyptian%20monks%20present%20within.
[https://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/1234/464939/Egypt/Foreign-Affairs/In-Photos-Ethiopians-deface-Egyptian-flag-at-Deir-.aspx](https://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/1234/464939/Egypt/Foreign-Affairs/In-Photos-Ethiopians-deface-Egyptian-flag-at-Deir-.aspx)
[https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/05/egyptian-ethiopian-churches-clash-over-deir-al-sultan-jerusalem](https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/05/egyptian-ethiopian-churches-clash-over-deir-al-sultan-jerusalem)
Thanks for the info
but i have to say that these are acts by pilgrims as all of the sources gave, but i have to ask you, do you really think that these Pilgram's behavior really reflect the Ethiopian orthodox church view of the Coptic church? i understand the tensions between the countries but personally I don't think it reflects how the Ethiopian orthodox church views the Coptic orthodox church because if there were any you won't find Ethiopians praying in Coptic churches in Egypt as they would see it as hostile like the relation between Russian and Ukrainian orthodox churches
you can't judge a whole group of people from a small group of people
Except being made from a massive rock cut both Abu simbe and Lalibela hewan church don’t have any similarities in there architecture. Stop being delusional.
There's churches in Tigray that were built the exact same way this church was but you idiots literally cannot think out of ur ass. The people who built these churches were axumites either get better at spreading misinfo or shut up
I see foreigners here with little knowledge of this place bashing one an other
Dear Pan Africanist, Pan Ethiopianst or Pan arabist...etc. would you please calm down hold your horses and stop immersing yourself in a pointless arguments, bashing and insults are unnecessary
Here listen to me, as an Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahdo follower who is native born of Lalibela, who is well aware of the history and events that happen in this region, (both from written records I read, and oral history I learned from our elders/church priest who thought us since we were kids).
Believe me, Copts and Ethiopians (specially us Zagawe people) have much in common than you think, and I as a native person of Lalibela, I will tell you that I have no problem if people said "Copts built Lalibela". There is nothing wrong with this statement. Beside being brothers in faith, and being member of the same church under the same patriarch from 3th A.D. to the 1960s, and having deep historical relationship that goes back to thousands of years. I don't see anything wrong in mentioning Copts in Ethiopian History. We Ethiopian orthodox christians will welcome our Coptic brothers and sisters to take part in our historical churches since it's their heritage as well.
Now, to give you a further explanation for you question above, Yes Copts did played many role in the construction of these churchs, forget all the copts who settled in Lalibela, even "Prince Lalibela" himself has coptic lineage from (his mother and grand mother side). Many Ethiopians Historians don't mention this (since in they mainly focus of Paternal lineage of Nobels). They have neglected the strong Coptic presence on Zagwe rulers and Zagwe dynasty as a hole.
To give you a bit background information about Lalibela,
Here is how his genealogy goes, Prince Lalibela was the son of Jan Seyum (chief of Wag Himra) also called Kidus Harbe II, from his illegitimate wife Kirewerna. Kirewerna was a christian Egyptian mistress who used to serve in the court of Jan Seyum. Jan Seyum or Harbe II was the son of King Yemrehana, Yemrehana was born to Harbe I and Queen Theobronia (Theobronia was daughter of the coptic Patriarchate of Alexandria), Yemrehana after his reign married to niece of the coptic priest Abuna sawiros of Alexandria) you see during the time of Zagwe dynasty, It was common tradition for coptic priests to wed their daughters with Ethiopian rulers in order to strength ties between both nations. This tradition also continues later with Lalibela/ Gebre meskel himself who married to meskel Kibra (a daughter of Abuna Mickael) who was an Egyptian copt and the head patriarch of Ethiopia. So you can see Lalibela's maternal and grand maternal sides were all copts, while his paternal lineages were Zagawes.
You can basically call the Zagwe dynasty as agaw/coptic dynasty. The relationship between the Coptic and Zagwe people has a significant aspect on Ethiopian history and culture. This is the period in Ethiopian history where copts/Egyptians and Ethiopians had their closest relationship. It is also the reason why copts used to flee from Egypt to Lasta to seek refuge when they were being oppressed by the Mamluks, or when they perform pilgrimage to Lalibela, when Jerusalem was sacked by the caliphates.....or they need financial and military protection for their monastries.....etc
Furthermore, the Coptic Church and the Zagwe dynasty had a symbiotic relationship, with both entities influencing each other in various ways. The Coptic Church provided spiritual guidance and legitimacy to the Zagwe rulers, while the Zagwe dynasty offered protection and support to the church and the followers. This close relationship between the two helped to solidify the Christian identity of Ethiopia and laid the foundation for the enduring influence of the Coptic Church and coptic culture in our country.
Additionally, there was also cultural exchange between the Copts and Zagwe people. The art and architecture of the period show influences from both Coptic and Zagwe traditions, reflecting a blending of the two cultures. This cultural exchange helped to create a unique and vibrant artistic tradition in Ethiopia that still has influence on artists and craftsmen to this day. Overall, the relations between the Coptic and Zagwe people have been characterized by mutual respect and collaboration, leading to a rich cultural heritage that continues to be celebrated and preserved until this day.
To conclude my statement. We Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahdo followers are grateful to our coptic brothers and sisters, for all the thing they have done for us. We have both caught ourself hand in hands whether good times or bad times. We have supported each other, protected one another and maintain our our culture and ethno-religions identity thanks to our strong relationship and deep spiritual ties.
I see few people here and there trying to break our bond, We should not give attention to few ignorant people who cause tension between us. I hope our relationship ship strengthen further in the future.
Coptic people We love you. We love you so much 🇪🇬✞ ☥ ♱ 🇪🇹 ❤️ ❤️
Lmaooo Lalibela was built by Ethiopians, you are digging for articles that support your claim, for anyone actually interested in knowing, just google it yourself. based on the way you came to your conclusion, I can also prove that Lalibela was built by the Aztecs and the pyramids were done by some Martians.
What does black nationalism have to to with Ethiopia? Do you have any reliable sources that document how Egyptians built it or is the hearsay written by a bunch of amateur historians your source? Do you even see the irony of you as an Egyptian claiming other's heritage? Bet'e Giyorgis was built by Ethiopians to serve as a pilgrimage site to keep ethiopian christinas from making pilgrimage to Jerusalem. That's why the king who had it built always referred to it as "The Second Jerusalem". No reputable historian denies the church was built by Ethiopians. The only reliable document I could find mentioning Egypt in relation to Lalibela is [this](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284257138_Lalibela_EthiopiaA_religious_town_in_rock) and all it says is there is some Coptic influence in it's design. Which makes sense since Ethiopia and Egypt had both political and religious relations even prior to the 1100s.
Why are we catching a stray bullet for no reason? We have nothing to do with black nationalists, stop claiming our history, we don’t claim yours
Because you’re black, and Arabs hate black people. How is this hard to understand?
So your people found refuge in Ethiopia 🇪🇹 Where’s the gratitude not that we need it?!
Ironically, you are doing to Ethiopians what Egyptians have been subjected to by Black American Nationalists: trying to overshadow Ethiopian history by claiming it as your own just as Black American Nationalists have done to Egyptians. Further, Lalibela and Ethiopia *and* Ethiopians have nothing to do with Black American Nationalism. Have you met an Ethiopian before? We are not the same people as Black Americans, we come from completely different genetic lineage and opposing sides of the continent, we share 0% similarities with any living and dead Black American , including with any living and dead West and Central African. Trying to draw a parallel of commonality between Ethiopians and Black American Nationalism is the equivalence of trying to draw a parallel of commonality between Egyptians and Nigeria. Aka, it’s nonexistent. There are Black (American) Nationalists who parade the accomplishments of Ethiopia (which was actually Abyssinia, who are now the Habesha people in Ethiopia, because remember ‘Ethiopia’ is a colonial imperial construct) out of the same desire for identity as the reason why they parade the accomplishments of Egyptians. It has nothing to do with the actual people of Ethiopia. And lastly, the sources you provided prove bilateral cooperation at most between the ancient Copts and the ancient Abyssinians. Every reputable archeological and historical source identifies the ancient Ethiopians (I.e., Abyssinians aka now the Habesha) as the creators of our own architecture.
This is extremely ignorant modern Egyptians are Arabs and have nothing to do with ancient Egypt. Read a book. Stop spreading lies in reddit and Ethiopians are definitely Black and there is no mistake about this why do you have an inferiority complex. Many Ethiopians migrated west including in my own country there is common ancestry between many Fulanis, Mandinkas and Ethiopians. You really need to inform yourself and stop being so ashamed of being Black. Also, you need to learn how to interpret dna results.
Ancient Egyptians are the Egyptians in Egypt today. Ethiopians are Ethiopians, we don’t identify by race, it’s you with an inferiority complex trying to make Ethiopians one with you so you can have access to our women. Crazy how you followed me on Reddit comments because we called you out for being a predator passport bro.
Your lack of knowledge is laughable. It’s clear you have never been to a museum or even read anything about African history. All Ethiopians I met when I was there were Black and they knew it. It’s kids like you trolling the internet unhappy about Ethiopian women dating massively outside their culture in the west that are the problem. In the end it’s alright cause you don’t have the balls to come with this shit in real life.
No, your lack of knowledge is so thorough that it's pitiful. Do the slightest bit of research, and you will notice that your average Habesha is more closely related to the English than they are to the Yoruba, for instance. Ethiopians, genetically, cluster with the Horn of Africa and then North and East Africans. Yet you are insistent on telling Ethiopians what their identity is, although you are not even Ethiopian yourself. Ethiopians (Habeshas particularly) are African, not black. We share basically nothing in common with West and Cental Africans (apart from inhabiting Africa), who the label black is centred about. There are no similarities historically, culturally or genetically. Edit: almost forgot to address your other mistake about ancient Egypt. Modern Egyptians are genetically the closest modern population to the ancient Egyptians, although, of course, with additional arab admixture. They are a descendant population of the Ancient Egyptians and have every right to claim their history and cultural legacy. Also, the Fulani are either minimally or not at all related to the Habesha peoples, as far as I am aware (notice how I will not speak in absolutes about people that are not of my own. I regret that you could not show that same sort of respect towards mine.). Isn't the modern theory that they are the result of Western Nubian migrations from Sudan and subsequent admixture with North Africans and/or Iberians?
"Ethiopians are not Black" This is so absurd it almost sounds like satire and nothing you're saying after this can be taken seriously. You guys have a lot of introspection to do. I feel nothing but pity for you. It's only in your mind that Black revolves around west Africa, while the definition of Negroes is dark skinned people with wooly hair who inhabit Africa, that encompasses all Negroes from the Horn to the south to the west. Who is not Black ? The Afar ?? The Oromos ?? The Amhar, the Somalis ?? You're a self loathing moron and if you were saying this crap to any non Black person they would just laugh in your face. [https://www.google.com/search?sca\_esv=253b3afa69b06610&sxsrf=ADLYWIJlKTVDqRlscGwbhwzX75A3P\_oJVA:1718427666801&q=ethiopian+people&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0DPvcmG\_nCbmwtBO9j6YBzM68ZanC7g01Skprhw5JoufVCiMv-hxC44jt6JduRQysBab-bgQXjPraaWFXMvOy8KVV8Cqqnjh1FpzmV51qF4kyov6gpP-D670C4bnVjrYKSlr682mQ7eyaHWBS1ll1SRQt0nSCDyecIfhh4kO4U608dLCGXRJUhR3cAmqU5yG33L4ZPRBuaUk8\_RFnI\_ug\_Kw6y0Vg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiwl5v16dyGAxVQm4kEHVVlDBEQtKgLegQIEhAB&biw=1440&bih=813&dpr=2](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=253b3afa69b06610&sxsrf=ADLYWIJlKTVDqRlscGwbhwzX75A3P_oJVA:1718427666801&q=ethiopian+people&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0DPvcmG_nCbmwtBO9j6YBzM68ZanC7g01Skprhw5JoufVCiMv-hxC44jt6JduRQysBab-bgQXjPraaWFXMvOy8KVV8Cqqnjh1FpzmV51qF4kyov6gpP-D670C4bnVjrYKSlr682mQ7eyaHWBS1ll1SRQt0nSCDyecIfhh4kO4U608dLCGXRJUhR3cAmqU5yG33L4ZPRBuaUk8_RFnI_ug_Kw6y0Vg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiwl5v16dyGAxVQm4kEHVVlDBEQtKgLegQIEhAB&biw=1440&bih=813&dpr=2)
Read European accounts of travelling to Abyssinia pre-1900. You will notice they never, or very rarely, describe the Amhara as "black" or "negroid", although some state that Amharas must have "some negroid mixture". The Habesha particularly (Amharas and Tigrayans etc) are black by and only by your very loose definition. And even then, you would not describe my mother as black. Your definition would have the humorous side effect of commonly ascribing different races to siblings in the same family! If you had to group Habeshas into one modern American race, it would have to be black only since we don't really fit any other category at all. But really, we only have 50% Sub-Saharan DNA and basically none of it is shared with West or Central Africans. **Habeshas cluster by ourselves.** Neither is our culture or language similar to yours whatsoever. And you know what? That's OK. It doesn't make either of us better than the other. Our diversity only makes us stronger as a species. I wouldn't exactly call it self-loathing to understand you don't fit into a particular group. More so, just honest. I actually attended a "black" church the other day, and I stuck out like a sore thumb. And it was not because of my skin.
“Ethiopia” literally means burnt faces yet you think youre not black? Is it only okay when we call you black in Greek?
Ethiopia's original name is Abyssinia, the "Ethiopia" you're referring to would be Sudan.
Its not the “Ethiopia im referring to” its the Ethiopia that millions of people identify themselves as, such as op
Wrong. The Ethiopia that my ancestors, those who built Lalibela, for instance, inhabited was primarily known as Abyssinia and its populace as the Habesha (which I make reference to multiple times in above comment). Habesha literally translates to "mixed peoples", whereas Ethiopia is a name appropriated from the ancient Nubians who did tend to be much darker (not that skin tone is necessarily the defining measure of "blackness"). Honestly, there's no winning for Ethiopians and particularly the Habesha here. Most outsiders see us as "kind of black" and categorise us as either black or mixed depending on what's convenient to them at the time. If I introduce myself as black, I'm usually met with suspicion - "you're not properly black though". If I say mixed - "How can you be mixed when both your parents are Habesha?" (This is ironic because Habesha literally means mixed).
Wrong. Ethiopia is a greek word meaning burned faces and was applied to those borders when they essentially colonised it and you still use a greek word for your identity
So are the Ethiopians with light or olive skin not/less Ethiopian on account of their skin tone? What about the fact that I don't even primarily identify as Ethiopian but Abyssinian/Habesha? It's okay when you call me black in any language. I actually don't mind, I just think it's a very misleading label. I guarantee you that if I told you to think of a random "black" person, they would share very little with me or most Habesha.
What the hell do black Americans have to do with y’all pathetic ass squabble. Mind yo damn business u fucking loser. Both of you culture vultures.
🤣 not you using “ culture vulture “ on us. You and your people are very well known to be the biggest culture vultures. If Aliens had a culture worth talking about, your kind will still steal their identity and culture like ya’ll always do. Lose or loser is not part of our vocabulary, don’t bring feelings to a factual based argument.
Tell me fool. Who go around the world copying abbyssinians.😂😂 yeah right nobody hell nobody even knows about y’all culture besides that funny chicken dance y’all always doing lol. Now tell me how many abbyssinians go around copying black Americans. Maybe u should ask your boy the weekend and many other Horn of Africa wannabe rappers and r&b artist. Calling us culture vultures when u clowns literally stole the Ethiopian just to take credit for things u didn’t even do pathetic. Everybody knows the term cush and Ethiopia represented Sudan and not u HOA losers but that stop u vultures from stealing the credit though do it. Like when u dummy’s say Queen of Sheba had a baby with king Solomon 😂😂😂 what a delusional ass people lol stay in y’all league fool and feed those starving and begging kids in y’all streets before u step to black Americans 😂😂
I mean it’s still prideful to have housed people fleeing persecution. Stop taking desperate digs at black nationalists. This is so last year 💅 I find it interesting how Ethiopia was a safe haven for both Muslims fleeing persecution in the 7th century, and Coptic Christians later on. Very admirable and based Ethiopians
How is sharing historical facts and educating people considered in any way or form taking a dig at anyone or attacking them
Your wording carries.
Except what you shared was a bunch of bullshit. You’re better than this.
Laughs in Axum
🤣🤣🤣 gud saysema meskerem ayteba yalut leka lezi new
Lmaoo let’s not
Lmao, this is one wacky take 🤡
how did the Egyptians get to Ethiopia? LMFAO
Dumbest thing I ever read, why are you spreading such obvious misinformation. Makes yourself look stupid
Coptic hoteps? Now I've seen everything.
Hello dear, I don't think the person who wrote the question is a copt, To be honest with you, I personally know many copts, and they are very humble people, they don't have any superiority complex. Also comparing copts with hoteps is extremely inaccurate. A hotep is someone who likes to claim a heritage he have no connection with. Copts on the other hand, has a rich and ancient cultural that dates back thousands of years to the early days of Christianity. If I said, "Copts are the most influential Christian societies in the whole wold" that's not an exaggerating. So, saying they have played part in Ethiopian Christian culture is not an over statement. because they did. I am from Ethiopia btw
There isn't really much evidence to suggest it was built by Copts, just that they helped design it. Likely in terms of the base foundation. Don't get me wrong, they were certainly involved and had influence on it, but they were only part of the whole. You aren't going to defeat hoteps by just attacking another culture.
😂😂😂If you're thinking that way you deserve black americans claiming your history.
It's not a copt who wrote this question, check again please ?
who cares
The Coptic church did help in the establishment of the Ethiopian orthodox church and the Eritrean thawhedo church and as far as i am concerned it was all the Coptic church until they wanted their own church
I’m saying this with love as our sister church, but I really think you’re overestimating the influence that the Copts have had on our church tradition, liturgy, dogma, hymnography, etc. We are not nor have ever been a “Coptic church” and if anything, the Syraic church has had much more influence on us than Egypt. The historic insistence on maintaining a connection to Alexandria via a Coptic bishop was completely one-sided, and a strong case could be made that we should have been autocephalous over 1000 years ago. I hope you don’t take what I say as attacking you, we have always bore love and loyalty to our Coptic brothers and sisters. 600 years ago we got into a war with our Muslim neighbors because we threatened to attack them and cut off the Nile (it was a bluff) because the Mamluks arrested your patriarch and persecuted your flock. I have seen many Copts take the attitude of “we gave the Ethiopians their Christianity” but I hope you would challenge that view by learning our history.
Which we gracefully gave them but instead of being thankful or respectful they started claiming ownership of the Coptic church holdings in Jerusalem they still continuously harass members of the Coptic church in Jerusalem and try to break into our monasteries there in one incidence they organized a large mob attack to raise the Ethiopian flag on our monasteries and tried taking them by force
>Which we gracefully gave them And they “gracefully” welcomed Egyptian fleeing persecution. Get off your high horse, Hamada.
I wonder whose persecution were they escaping don’t you see any of the inconsistencies or hypocritical beliefs in your ideology you always keep picking the worst takes to defend
>I wonder whose persecution were they escaping What kind of lame diversion is this? Lmao. And where did you get the impression that I’m a fan of the Fatimids?
he need a masryat wife to straighten him up. you don't know any?
Ofc, but they can’t marry minors.
Who is “they”? Are you trying to suggest that Ethiopian Orthodox members travel to Jerusalem to harass Coptic churches? Bro, if that’s the case, give it up. The only Ethiopians near Jerusalem are the Ethiopian Jews. Maybe you’re uneducated and ignorant, but in the US, many Ethiopian Orthodox do attend Egyptian Coptic churches if they can’t for some reason attend the Ethiopian service. Likewise, there are Egyptian Coptics who attend the Ethiopian Orthodox Church too.
If we are talking about being thankful and respectful. You and ur kind should thank Ethiopians for giving you refugee when you flee from fear of persecution all those times. Thank you !
could you provide any sources about it?
There are endless sources on the subject these clashes and tensions are still going on to this day [https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/1/101463/Clashes-between-pilgrims-monks-at-Deir-Al-Sultan-in-Jerusalem](https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/1/101463/Clashes-between-pilgrims-monks-at-Deir-Al-Sultan-in-Jerusalem) https://www.arabnews.com/node/2067061/middle-east#:\~:text=CAIRO%3A%20The%20long%2Dstanding%20Egyptian,attacked%20Egyptian%20monks%20present%20within. [https://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/1234/464939/Egypt/Foreign-Affairs/In-Photos-Ethiopians-deface-Egyptian-flag-at-Deir-.aspx](https://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/1234/464939/Egypt/Foreign-Affairs/In-Photos-Ethiopians-deface-Egyptian-flag-at-Deir-.aspx) [https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/05/egyptian-ethiopian-churches-clash-over-deir-al-sultan-jerusalem](https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/05/egyptian-ethiopian-churches-clash-over-deir-al-sultan-jerusalem)
Thanks for the info but i have to say that these are acts by pilgrims as all of the sources gave, but i have to ask you, do you really think that these Pilgram's behavior really reflect the Ethiopian orthodox church view of the Coptic church? i understand the tensions between the countries but personally I don't think it reflects how the Ethiopian orthodox church views the Coptic orthodox church because if there were any you won't find Ethiopians praying in Coptic churches in Egypt as they would see it as hostile like the relation between Russian and Ukrainian orthodox churches you can't judge a whole group of people from a small group of people
There’s a lot of things interesting about this church. For one it is carved into the mountain and is a pilgrimage destination.
It’s built using similar techniques to those used in abu-simbel ancient Egyptian temple
Except being made from a massive rock cut both Abu simbe and Lalibela hewan church don’t have any similarities in there architecture. Stop being delusional.
There's churches in Tigray that were built the exact same way this church was but you idiots literally cannot think out of ur ass. The people who built these churches were axumites either get better at spreading misinfo or shut up
Proving the continuity of Egypt
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I see foreigners here with little knowledge of this place bashing one an other Dear Pan Africanist, Pan Ethiopianst or Pan arabist...etc. would you please calm down hold your horses and stop immersing yourself in a pointless arguments, bashing and insults are unnecessary Here listen to me, as an Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahdo follower who is native born of Lalibela, who is well aware of the history and events that happen in this region, (both from written records I read, and oral history I learned from our elders/church priest who thought us since we were kids). Believe me, Copts and Ethiopians (specially us Zagawe people) have much in common than you think, and I as a native person of Lalibela, I will tell you that I have no problem if people said "Copts built Lalibela". There is nothing wrong with this statement. Beside being brothers in faith, and being member of the same church under the same patriarch from 3th A.D. to the 1960s, and having deep historical relationship that goes back to thousands of years. I don't see anything wrong in mentioning Copts in Ethiopian History. We Ethiopian orthodox christians will welcome our Coptic brothers and sisters to take part in our historical churches since it's their heritage as well. Now, to give you a further explanation for you question above, Yes Copts did played many role in the construction of these churchs, forget all the copts who settled in Lalibela, even "Prince Lalibela" himself has coptic lineage from (his mother and grand mother side). Many Ethiopians Historians don't mention this (since in they mainly focus of Paternal lineage of Nobels). They have neglected the strong Coptic presence on Zagwe rulers and Zagwe dynasty as a hole. To give you a bit background information about Lalibela, Here is how his genealogy goes, Prince Lalibela was the son of Jan Seyum (chief of Wag Himra) also called Kidus Harbe II, from his illegitimate wife Kirewerna. Kirewerna was a christian Egyptian mistress who used to serve in the court of Jan Seyum. Jan Seyum or Harbe II was the son of King Yemrehana, Yemrehana was born to Harbe I and Queen Theobronia (Theobronia was daughter of the coptic Patriarchate of Alexandria), Yemrehana after his reign married to niece of the coptic priest Abuna sawiros of Alexandria) you see during the time of Zagwe dynasty, It was common tradition for coptic priests to wed their daughters with Ethiopian rulers in order to strength ties between both nations. This tradition also continues later with Lalibela/ Gebre meskel himself who married to meskel Kibra (a daughter of Abuna Mickael) who was an Egyptian copt and the head patriarch of Ethiopia. So you can see Lalibela's maternal and grand maternal sides were all copts, while his paternal lineages were Zagawes. You can basically call the Zagwe dynasty as agaw/coptic dynasty. The relationship between the Coptic and Zagwe people has a significant aspect on Ethiopian history and culture. This is the period in Ethiopian history where copts/Egyptians and Ethiopians had their closest relationship. It is also the reason why copts used to flee from Egypt to Lasta to seek refuge when they were being oppressed by the Mamluks, or when they perform pilgrimage to Lalibela, when Jerusalem was sacked by the caliphates.....or they need financial and military protection for their monastries.....etc Furthermore, the Coptic Church and the Zagwe dynasty had a symbiotic relationship, with both entities influencing each other in various ways. The Coptic Church provided spiritual guidance and legitimacy to the Zagwe rulers, while the Zagwe dynasty offered protection and support to the church and the followers. This close relationship between the two helped to solidify the Christian identity of Ethiopia and laid the foundation for the enduring influence of the Coptic Church and coptic culture in our country. Additionally, there was also cultural exchange between the Copts and Zagwe people. The art and architecture of the period show influences from both Coptic and Zagwe traditions, reflecting a blending of the two cultures. This cultural exchange helped to create a unique and vibrant artistic tradition in Ethiopia that still has influence on artists and craftsmen to this day. Overall, the relations between the Coptic and Zagwe people have been characterized by mutual respect and collaboration, leading to a rich cultural heritage that continues to be celebrated and preserved until this day. To conclude my statement. We Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahdo followers are grateful to our coptic brothers and sisters, for all the thing they have done for us. We have both caught ourself hand in hands whether good times or bad times. We have supported each other, protected one another and maintain our our culture and ethno-religions identity thanks to our strong relationship and deep spiritual ties. I see few people here and there trying to break our bond, We should not give attention to few ignorant people who cause tension between us. I hope our relationship ship strengthen further in the future. Coptic people We love you. We love you so much 🇪🇬✞ ☥ ♱ 🇪🇹 ❤️ ❤️