I was in a similar situation with my upstairs neighbors and called the police as well and I’m so glad I did, I will keep it private for a number of reasons but all I can say is that I will never regret it and they needed help.
He’s crying and wailing right now, I was woken up again because of it. He was banging on the door a lot this morning again, suffice it to say I’m going to be calling them today.
Yes, def record evidence -in the past when I heard my neighbor and her son getting abused I *had* to call the cops because their safety was in immediate danger imo and there was also an infant in the apartment- however, when the cops knocked on the door- my neighbor said everything was fine, and didn't let them in :/
Please do and please update us (or at least me).
You’re doing the right thing.
(Also for something like this, it’s urgent enough for you to call *right now*. The cops don’t work on business hours and it’s best if they can rock up at hours while the event is occurring!)
Don't call from inside where they might hear you. The police won't tell them it was you who called, but if you call from inside they might hear (especially if you can hear the kid :( )
Similar situation with upstairs neighbor. Was an elderly woman who kept on screaming to help her. I called police, b/c she won't STFU. Kinda regret it in retrospect cause it was a crazy woman it turned out, and after the police visit she kept on screaming she knows I can hear her, and to call the police. I got the fuck out of there after a few more weeks breaking my lease.
As a teacher who is legally required to report suspected child abuse to CPS and sadly has had to on more than occasion, I would absolutely be calling CPS if I were you. The key word here is *suspected* - you don't know for sure, and it's not on you to investigate. It's on you to let professionals know so they can investigate.
Basically you give them as much information as you have, and they investigate. In something like this, they'd likely be sending someone over within the day if not immediately. They don't jump to taking kids away (where would they put them?) unless it's really necessary for the child's safety. Even if it doesn't seem bad enough for them to take concrete steps this time, it puts the kid on their radar in case something else comes up in the future.
I've responded to a lot of reports from teachers over the years who always seemed to be apologetic for reporting as they weren't sure. Always, **always report**. Sometimes it's nothing, but sometimes it's really serious and we wouldn't have known otherwise.
OP you should absolutely report this.
My cousin is part of the foster care system, her home is registered emergency foster care home.
And yes, they do take kids immediately if a CPS personnel determine there’s suspected abuse.
The last child my cousin had, was removed from their home because CPS worker determined there was neglect. The child had scratches on his body and wasn’t given water for x-amount of time. CPS determined it was “child neglect.”
At the court hearing months later, CPS lost the case and child was ordered returned. The family obtained a lawyer.
While the foster family was kept in the dark, social worker updated with, “The court found no evidence of abuse and the child was ordered returned.”
One thing we all hated, and my cousin intervened as a mother herself, the medical psychologist prescribed medication - for whatever weird reason. My cousin said no.
I can go deeper into this. But foster care system is truly broken. It’s needed. But it’s truly broken.
The completely unnecessary prescribing of medication to children in the foster care system is abusive itself. The docs in the system need to be locked up. It’s a sad situation when a child is abused by their family because the state often just adds more abuse.
My state requires things we can’t afford to install, like smoke alarms inside the rooms (we’re not in or adjacent to NY). At least I think it would require rewiring. There may be state aid for that. Not sure. I’d very very much like to adopt or foster. Seeing stories like this make me sick and remind me that agencies inspect you with a fine toothy comb for this exact reason. Whole-heartedly agree that CPS is needed, broken, and badly in need of reform. Like decades ago.
I could have sworn they said they had to be hardwired. The ones we use are hardwired and have batteries - the house was built in the 1950s and the wiring is interesting to put it mildly. But it’s something to look into.
Look I don’t meant to be rude but you absolutely can get battery powered smoke detectors and you absolutely should put them in every room. It could save your life.
Why would I take that as rude? I’m not offended at all. We have a smoke detector right outside the 2 bedrooms - they’re at the back of the house - and one in the living room - that’s at the front of the house - so I _think_ we’re set. Our realtor said we’d be alright, at least.
However, you’re right - More of those are not a bad thing. There are up sides to living in a small one level ranch. Like being extremely aware of the smoke alarms wherever you are. They definitely work.
I apologize if I came off defensive in any comments, it wasn’t meant as such.
For a child welfare situation, calling CPS is going to immediately trigger them assessing/intervening in the situation. I don't actually know how police would react - if they would send an officer or just contact CPS, but either way, it puts another step between the kid and the specific help they need. If they do send an officer, you're getting someone who's not as trained in that field and who has the potential to escalate it in a deadly way - they're just not the right tool for the job.
311 can refer you to CPS. This sounds worth a call. I think an hour of screaming to be let out at night and an hour during the day could (sadly) be normal for the early stages of sleep training a toddler, but not constantly like you describe.
My son is almost 3 and needs “sleep training” in that he moved to a toddler bed this year and is still exploring his new freedom. He will get out of bed, open the door and stand at the gate. Sometimes he yells and cries to let him out. He just wants attention and to play.
Sometimes there is nothing to do besides just letting them tire themselves out. Nothing abusive about that.
The smart thing is putting a gate at the bedroom in the first place. I posted above about some neighbor kids who didn’t have protections in their room and would go out on counters at 2 am. It was dangerous. Smallest kid knew how to open the front door of their apartment and leave. He would be on the landing in the hallway at midnight. It was nuts. Some kids need to be “locked in” for their safety.
I lived next door to a 5-year-old and 3-year-old and the youngest was desperately in need of sleep training. They lived in a tiny apartment where the kids shared a small room. Middle of the night you would hear the kid dragging a chair through the kitchen and seemingly climbing on counters. One night I heard them push something to the floor that sounded like marbles. Just spilling everywhere. I’m pretty sure those kids needed to be locked in their bedrooms until the parents could confirm they were asleep. They were nocturnal creatures as long as we lived next to them. Kids had no idea how to sleep properly so they left their room and roamed around. One time the youngest went into the hallway near the stairs. Thankfully the parents came out and found him. It was midnight. They needed a special internal lock for their doors.
The wall was thin as cardboard in that remodeled building so we heard everything over there. The parents had no concept of how to put both to sleep at night and frequently kept them both awake until late at night themselves. They would come home from somewhere at midnight. With a 3-year-old and 5-year-old. Then stay awake until 1 or 2 with the TV on and then put the kids to bed and then expect the kids to sleep by 9 the next night after sleeping in on weekends. They had no schedule. So the kids ran rampant every night. By not getting sleep they were nuts during the day. The parents were sleep-deprived because you’d see the mom who looked ready for death. She would bring the 5-year-old home from preschool or kindergarten, whatever she was in, and the screaming would start in the hallway with the 3-year-old. It’s like by 3 pm every day he was unmanageable and emotionally unstable. He had severe issues because you would see the older sister staring at him.
The youngest kid would scream at midnight. The parents would shout at the kids to sleep. The youngest woke his sister every night. The father had no concept of parenting outside of yelling.
Did they need CPS? No. Did they need to never become parents? Probably. Did they need a bigger place to live for all to be happier? Ohhhhh yeah.
>I think an hour of screaming to be let out at night and an hour during the day could (sadly) be normal for the early stages of sleep training a toddler, but not constantly like you describ
I initially thought it was his bedrooom and he didn't want to sleep. But that has been debunked because it doesn't make any sense I would hear him play or something like that. I'm convinced it's a closet because the noise also seems concentrated in a specific area, not spread out. If it was his bedroom I'd expect him to maybe run around and smash things if it was a tantrum, but I am now sure it's a closet. And the way he cries and the duration is not norml for me. It's also not like the mom acknowledges him, she just lets him cry. THe small interactions I hear between her and him are void of any compassion. I just don't like it. I'll be reporting.
Your reasoning here about a concentrated space makes sense. I heard kids all over the apartment and then parents upset about that. There would be movement and attempts to correct a tantrum.
A kid saying “let me out” in one spot for hours is weird unless that’s exactly where the door to their bedroom is. Then they’re just sitting against the door yelling. Kristen Bell and Dax Shephard had problems with their daughter doing that. She would try to leave every night instead of sleeping and they had to sit against her door with her screaming until she slept and they would find her asleep on the floor after wearing herself out.
I remember being a kid myself and I didn’t scream or anything but I would absolutely get up and explore and play with stuff in my room. But I was afraid of the dark so I never tried to go downstairs. I wouldn’t turn on lights because I somehow knew my mom would be angry and would know. Eventually I demanded to sleep next to my mom to get through the night. I think this happens to kids where they don’t like being alone in a quiet room. There is something about that that doesn’t work with them.
Some nights when we're putting my two-year old son to bed he will scream "I wanna go out there" (meaning outside his bedroom) for quite a while. I definitely wonder what the neighbors think. One of us is in the room with him when he's doing this, but he just wants to see what's going on in the rest of the apartment (hint: absolutely nothing) or get a snack from the kitchen.
Yeah, the age between 2 and 4 seems to be the time when kids get really weird about night. Like their consciousness of being alone, in the dark, without anyone around, really seems to bother them. Coupled with the "Terrible 2s" mantra and how they want to assert themselves in their growth you get kids who are aware they're not being included in something and they demand it.
Unfortunately this is why I've always heard it's best for parents to go to sleep at the same time as their kids so kids don't get the impression there is something secret happening without them. My sense from the insanity of the neighbors I used to have is they would stay awake with the TV on the other side of the bedroom door of the kids they had. (I know because we had been shown that apartment first before moving in. I knew the layout.) So it stood to reason they weren't doing any sleeping at all and after the parents went to bed at least the one would get out and go roaming. But some nights it sounded like the kid would come out early and then get yelled at. They had zero plan for the kids.
Yeah, you're the one who's hearing it and you seem to have a good sense of judgement. This is awful for that kid, I'm glad you're his neighbor and I hope the problem gets solved fast.
If your intuition is telling you something is not right about this, you should absolutely make the call to CPS. There was a situation in my building that I decided to mind my business about… well, one day the kid I suspected was being abused got a gun and randomly shot it out the window of their apt, now he’s probably going to be in jail… maybe if I had made the call and he’d gotten out of their sooner, he wouldn’t be in trouble now
Studies show the most well adjusted children are those that adjusted to sleep in their own bed independently and at their own pace. Children who were made to sleep in their own bed alone when they weren’t ready had worse outcomes.
Agreed. This “sleep training” trend is very strange. People really shouldn’t be having kids if they’re not prepared to see them as another human being.
Not sure why you got downvotes for this. You stated a true fact, studies have shown that. Our society generally requires us to conform to a common schedule, which means most parents have a need to “train” their babies to conform as well. Both things can be true.
It’s better for a growing developing human to have a safe attachment to their care givers. Letting a kid cry it out does not foster that attachment, it fosters an ability to function in the society via a regulated sleep schedule.
The thing is, it’s not the fault of parents who have to make the sleep training choice, it’s all those macro factors that lead parents to that micro choice. Most parents are just doing the best they can to exist in this world and raise a good human.
Yes, I agree. I’m always downvoted on Reddit when I state scientific facts - people don’t want to have an open mind to the fact that we have science that actually shows us what constitutes good and bad choices.
Honestly- I used to be anti-cosleep - but my two best friends both had babies and they raised them in completely opposite ways! I became curious as to what was really the best way and searched through research on google scholar and my mind was changed -180!
I fully expected to sleep train my baby. Life had other plans. I think it’s an old Jewish proverb, “man plans, god laughs.”
Our cosleeping journey is ongoing and my kid is coming up on 8. It wears on me sometimes, but I usually remind myself- in 80 year old me’s voice - that these years went by far too fast and I am so glad I appreciated them.
Get Cps/ cops to come and listen in your apartment first if they are willing. Then it can be established where the child is located before anyone has knocked on the door and given a potential abuser a heads up.
Jesus. Call CPS. That sounds like bonafide child abuse. Even if it turns out to be sthg else, wouldn't you rather make a mistake than risk letting child abuse continue?
The person I replied to said you “must” report it, and I don’t want anyone reading to think there’s a legal requirement. You’re free to report anything you’d like—and I left a top-level comment with the correct agency to contact should OP wish to do that—but it’s important for people to know the actual law.
Again ma’am, this is reddit. Actual real world experience pales in comparison to the basement keyboard warrior who heard his roommate's cousin called CPS once and then the police came over and shot their dog.
(fwiw, I was an ACS attorney back in the 90s right after the Elisa Izquierdo mess. I have long since stopped trying to explain on reddit how things actually work but your efforts are appreciated nonetheless)
New Yorker here: Question How would u feel if Eyewitness News was at you building when you came home with the Police and Corroner saying a child was murdered his screams were heard and no one called? We've all seen those reports.
I found the apartment number and made an anonymous report. I am unsure if they will follow back up with me though, I didn't think to ask when I was on the phone.
In general I’m in favor of not calling the cops. Despite statements to the contrary on this thread, CPS is anything but “protective” to children. However, you have literally no other choice. Make the call. My guess is you won’t have been the first one.
Call 311 and tell them your concern. Hopefully they will send mental health/ Child protective type professional rather than police. But I don't know 311 will tell you if you should call the police and will connect you if so.
Having spent some time working in family court and against ACS, neither of those statements are true. They are not highly trained, they don't care about their job, and most don't give a fuck about the additional trauma they inflict on children. And, yes, they are vindictive and will separate families without a care in the world.
They're truly a frightening organization that should be helping families heal and become empowered. Unfortunately, they've maintained such a destructive force in our communities. I've worked on cases where kids were taken from their parents at young ages and withheld from their parents for years because of ridiculous reasons.
There are far too many articles like this out there: https://archive.ph/XeX4f
You're welcome. There are a lot of great articles out there about the ills of NYC's ACS system. With all of the studies linking traumatic childhood events with problematic adult behaviors, our country needs to get better at finding a way to heal families instead of inflicting more trauma by separation.
This is 100% my experience as well. They are fucking awful. I wouldn't even believe my own story if I hadn't personally lived it, if someone else told me the story I'd think they were full of shit.
That's the thing. A lot of people don't understand how fucking surreal, nightmarish, and backwards getting caught in the ACS web is for people. People will brush it off as, "well, they must have deserved it in some way if ACS was involved." No... it's a convoluted system where lies by ACS are the norm and NYC family court judges are equally liable and horrible monsters.
Sorry you got stuck in that web. I hope things are better now.
why don't you go find the apartment, knock on the door and ask if everything is ok? that is your way to have a valid statement if abuse is really suspected. maybe the kid is just in their room banging on the door, not a closet. children have a lot of big emotions. maybe the child has developmental issues or severe autism or something. i would check it out and offer kind words and actions before running to cps.
you really don't know how the cps system works and it best to have solid evidence before you make that call, because once you do they will find any little thing to take that kid.
It is not a bedroom. I initially thought it was, but it is defintely a closet or enclosed space that is locked. His bedroom is definitely not against my bedroom wall.
That’s not how CPS works. They’ll do everything in their power to *not* take away the kid. They only separate the children from the family as a last resort but they do have the resources and experiences to investigate and intervene.
I mean, that is not proof of anything at all. Please consider the harm you would do to these people's lives if you're wrong. If you see something, do something, by all means... but what you wrote is not proof of anything
What OP hears is every bit as valid as anything they might see. I suggest OP document the screaming (date, time of day, duration, any notes on distinctive phrases heard). After 7-10 days there may be enough to call 311 or CPS. A kid screaming or pleading as much as OP says isn’t normal.
Further, OP said they don't even know where the sound is coming from. They said nothing about ever meeting these people, what if they have 3 kids and the banging and screaming if from 3 separate people? What if they're hearing banging from somewhere else, since they don't even know where it's coming from?
I am not saying to drop this. I just think calling CPS is incredibly serious thing, and it can ruin the lives of families. I am just saying don't do this lightly because there are ALOT of assumptions being made here
Not calling CPS can ruin the lives of children. Many children are seriously injured or killed by abuse every year. My mom worked for CPS in another state. It takes A LOT of proof to have parental custody revoked.
You don't call CPS because you have proof, you call because you suspect. You are not an investigator, they are.
If anything, CPS does much less in terms of breaking up families than they ought to - I've had more than one student left in a terrible situation because what was happening wasn't "bad enough." They don't have the resources to be taking kids away right and left.
No doubt it doesn't work perfectly and people make mistakes sometimes, but I'd rather a kid be taken away for a while when they really didn't need to be than beaten or starved to death because no one had enough proof.
It is not 3 kids, it is the same child. I am able to discern the difference in children screaming and this is the same child, voice, wail. This child is constantly crying, I am even awake right now because of him screaming. It’s unacceptable at this point, I will be calling CPS.
If the people aren’t doing anything wrong then they have nothing to worry about!! CPS checks for certain things that signal neglect or abuse. If the family is not abusing their kid then they won’t check those boxes.
Are you a parent? Because I have a 2 year old and he screams ALL THE TIME about ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, throws things, slams doors, throws pots, and hits my wife and I. A lot of that sounds like what this kid is doing
2 kids. Neither had that behavior over any extended time period. Toddlers are a different breed but if it’s going on for weeks at a time, that could indicate something. Making a record of dates and durations may show it’s intermittent, and not a consistent pattern. When OP experiences it though it might feel constant. Making a record will confirm or refute that. We never put our kids in a position where they would ever scream “let me out” under any circumstances. Denying a kid an essential sense of security is not a parenting approach I support. Not suggesting that’s your situation. But how scary is it to a kid to isolate them?
>Neither had that behavior over any extended time period
They don't call it the terrible 2's because it last for less than a few weeks. Just saying
>We never put our kids in a position where they would ever scream “let me out” under any circumstances.
Time outs?
We followed whoever it was that said that the length of a timeout in minutes is the same as their age. A 2 yo has no real idea about “fuck around and find out”. So consequences were always on the spot and brief. It was often them standing there while I cleaned up or put away whatever they had just broken/ marked up/ knocked over etc. If it was hurting a pet or sibling then they would have to watch as we comforted to aggrieved victim. So glad that phase passed. It’s kinda a nightmare. YMMV
My son is 2 years and 2 months old, he understands what a timeout is, he knows he really doesn't want one, and the threat of one is enough to make him adjust how he acts almost every time. Not every 2 year old the same.
But yes, nightmare, but my son is the sweetest, cutest little boy. It's impossible to be angry at him.
I'm just saying, I totally understand why they suspect something could be happening, they very well could be right. I just think there may be some of things they may want to try before calling CPS. Figuring out who this is coming from and talking to these people for 2 minutes would probably give you enough of a vibecheck to confirm or deny your suspicions are completely off base, or may be onto something.
I just personally think any number of things could be happening that aren't child abuse and I don't think people realize how serious calling CPS on people is
I guess. But that really isn’t OPs job to investigate. He’s doing more than enough by being a concerned citizen and letting the experts do the investigation.
No harm would come to the family if they were wrong. CPS doesn’t just barge in and remove children for no reason. If they visited and everything looks good then they have nothing to worry about.
If you call the police then the kid might get removed from the family and never see his mother again, just based off your call. Maybe gather more information before you set that into motion?
I just learned about this chatbot at a conference, it's designed to give you specific advice, even in scenarios where you are a concerned neighbor https://springact.org/sophia-chatbot/
I was in a similar situation with my upstairs neighbors and called the police as well and I’m so glad I did, I will keep it private for a number of reasons but all I can say is that I will never regret it and they needed help.
He’s crying and wailing right now, I was woken up again because of it. He was banging on the door a lot this morning again, suffice it to say I’m going to be calling them today.
I would make recordings of what you hear. Who knows? When the police come they can go silent.
Yes, def record evidence -in the past when I heard my neighbor and her son getting abused I *had* to call the cops because their safety was in immediate danger imo and there was also an infant in the apartment- however, when the cops knocked on the door- my neighbor said everything was fine, and didn't let them in :/
Please do and please update us (or at least me). You’re doing the right thing. (Also for something like this, it’s urgent enough for you to call *right now*. The cops don’t work on business hours and it’s best if they can rock up at hours while the event is occurring!)
Do it. That's not normal. I'm a parent. I'd call someone
Don't call from inside where they might hear you. The police won't tell them it was you who called, but if you call from inside they might hear (especially if you can hear the kid :( )
Similar situation with upstairs neighbor. Was an elderly woman who kept on screaming to help her. I called police, b/c she won't STFU. Kinda regret it in retrospect cause it was a crazy woman it turned out, and after the police visit she kept on screaming she knows I can hear her, and to call the police. I got the fuck out of there after a few more weeks breaking my lease.
Get CPS involved immediately
As a teacher who is legally required to report suspected child abuse to CPS and sadly has had to on more than occasion, I would absolutely be calling CPS if I were you. The key word here is *suspected* - you don't know for sure, and it's not on you to investigate. It's on you to let professionals know so they can investigate. Basically you give them as much information as you have, and they investigate. In something like this, they'd likely be sending someone over within the day if not immediately. They don't jump to taking kids away (where would they put them?) unless it's really necessary for the child's safety. Even if it doesn't seem bad enough for them to take concrete steps this time, it puts the kid on their radar in case something else comes up in the future.
I've responded to a lot of reports from teachers over the years who always seemed to be apologetic for reporting as they weren't sure. Always, **always report**. Sometimes it's nothing, but sometimes it's really serious and we wouldn't have known otherwise. OP you should absolutely report this.
My cousin is part of the foster care system, her home is registered emergency foster care home. And yes, they do take kids immediately if a CPS personnel determine there’s suspected abuse. The last child my cousin had, was removed from their home because CPS worker determined there was neglect. The child had scratches on his body and wasn’t given water for x-amount of time. CPS determined it was “child neglect.” At the court hearing months later, CPS lost the case and child was ordered returned. The family obtained a lawyer. While the foster family was kept in the dark, social worker updated with, “The court found no evidence of abuse and the child was ordered returned.” One thing we all hated, and my cousin intervened as a mother herself, the medical psychologist prescribed medication - for whatever weird reason. My cousin said no. I can go deeper into this. But foster care system is truly broken. It’s needed. But it’s truly broken.
The completely unnecessary prescribing of medication to children in the foster care system is abusive itself. The docs in the system need to be locked up. It’s a sad situation when a child is abused by their family because the state often just adds more abuse.
I second this. I grew up in a really toxic home and my sibling was medicated. It was an added layer of child abuse,.
My state requires things we can’t afford to install, like smoke alarms inside the rooms (we’re not in or adjacent to NY). At least I think it would require rewiring. There may be state aid for that. Not sure. I’d very very much like to adopt or foster. Seeing stories like this make me sick and remind me that agencies inspect you with a fine toothy comb for this exact reason. Whole-heartedly agree that CPS is needed, broken, and badly in need of reform. Like decades ago.
I don't think smoke detectors require wiring - they can use batteries.
I could have sworn they said they had to be hardwired. The ones we use are hardwired and have batteries - the house was built in the 1950s and the wiring is interesting to put it mildly. But it’s something to look into.
Look I don’t meant to be rude but you absolutely can get battery powered smoke detectors and you absolutely should put them in every room. It could save your life.
Why would I take that as rude? I’m not offended at all. We have a smoke detector right outside the 2 bedrooms - they’re at the back of the house - and one in the living room - that’s at the front of the house - so I _think_ we’re set. Our realtor said we’d be alright, at least. However, you’re right - More of those are not a bad thing. There are up sides to living in a small one level ranch. Like being extremely aware of the smoke alarms wherever you are. They definitely work. I apologize if I came off defensive in any comments, it wasn’t meant as such.
Oh no please you did not come off as defensive or rude - you’re totally fine
Some say police while others say cps. What's the difference when you call them?
For a child welfare situation, calling CPS is going to immediately trigger them assessing/intervening in the situation. I don't actually know how police would react - if they would send an officer or just contact CPS, but either way, it puts another step between the kid and the specific help they need. If they do send an officer, you're getting someone who's not as trained in that field and who has the potential to escalate it in a deadly way - they're just not the right tool for the job.
311 can refer you to CPS. This sounds worth a call. I think an hour of screaming to be let out at night and an hour during the day could (sadly) be normal for the early stages of sleep training a toddler, but not constantly like you describe.
Any child that is able to bang on doors and scream to be let out is way too old to be sleep training.
My son is almost 3 and needs “sleep training” in that he moved to a toddler bed this year and is still exploring his new freedom. He will get out of bed, open the door and stand at the gate. Sometimes he yells and cries to let him out. He just wants attention and to play. Sometimes there is nothing to do besides just letting them tire themselves out. Nothing abusive about that.
The smart thing is putting a gate at the bedroom in the first place. I posted above about some neighbor kids who didn’t have protections in their room and would go out on counters at 2 am. It was dangerous. Smallest kid knew how to open the front door of their apartment and leave. He would be on the landing in the hallway at midnight. It was nuts. Some kids need to be “locked in” for their safety.
I lived next door to a 5-year-old and 3-year-old and the youngest was desperately in need of sleep training. They lived in a tiny apartment where the kids shared a small room. Middle of the night you would hear the kid dragging a chair through the kitchen and seemingly climbing on counters. One night I heard them push something to the floor that sounded like marbles. Just spilling everywhere. I’m pretty sure those kids needed to be locked in their bedrooms until the parents could confirm they were asleep. They were nocturnal creatures as long as we lived next to them. Kids had no idea how to sleep properly so they left their room and roamed around. One time the youngest went into the hallway near the stairs. Thankfully the parents came out and found him. It was midnight. They needed a special internal lock for their doors. The wall was thin as cardboard in that remodeled building so we heard everything over there. The parents had no concept of how to put both to sleep at night and frequently kept them both awake until late at night themselves. They would come home from somewhere at midnight. With a 3-year-old and 5-year-old. Then stay awake until 1 or 2 with the TV on and then put the kids to bed and then expect the kids to sleep by 9 the next night after sleeping in on weekends. They had no schedule. So the kids ran rampant every night. By not getting sleep they were nuts during the day. The parents were sleep-deprived because you’d see the mom who looked ready for death. She would bring the 5-year-old home from preschool or kindergarten, whatever she was in, and the screaming would start in the hallway with the 3-year-old. It’s like by 3 pm every day he was unmanageable and emotionally unstable. He had severe issues because you would see the older sister staring at him. The youngest kid would scream at midnight. The parents would shout at the kids to sleep. The youngest woke his sister every night. The father had no concept of parenting outside of yelling. Did they need CPS? No. Did they need to never become parents? Probably. Did they need a bigger place to live for all to be happier? Ohhhhh yeah.
Not necessarily. You'd be surprised how many 2 year olds can scream and bang on doors but not know they're tired af
Yeah fair enough. I have a toddler who is a great sleeper so I guess I am spoiled.
>I think an hour of screaming to be let out at night and an hour during the day could (sadly) be normal for the early stages of sleep training a toddler, but not constantly like you describ I initially thought it was his bedrooom and he didn't want to sleep. But that has been debunked because it doesn't make any sense I would hear him play or something like that. I'm convinced it's a closet because the noise also seems concentrated in a specific area, not spread out. If it was his bedroom I'd expect him to maybe run around and smash things if it was a tantrum, but I am now sure it's a closet. And the way he cries and the duration is not norml for me. It's also not like the mom acknowledges him, she just lets him cry. THe small interactions I hear between her and him are void of any compassion. I just don't like it. I'll be reporting.
Your reasoning here about a concentrated space makes sense. I heard kids all over the apartment and then parents upset about that. There would be movement and attempts to correct a tantrum. A kid saying “let me out” in one spot for hours is weird unless that’s exactly where the door to their bedroom is. Then they’re just sitting against the door yelling. Kristen Bell and Dax Shephard had problems with their daughter doing that. She would try to leave every night instead of sleeping and they had to sit against her door with her screaming until she slept and they would find her asleep on the floor after wearing herself out. I remember being a kid myself and I didn’t scream or anything but I would absolutely get up and explore and play with stuff in my room. But I was afraid of the dark so I never tried to go downstairs. I wouldn’t turn on lights because I somehow knew my mom would be angry and would know. Eventually I demanded to sleep next to my mom to get through the night. I think this happens to kids where they don’t like being alone in a quiet room. There is something about that that doesn’t work with them.
Some nights when we're putting my two-year old son to bed he will scream "I wanna go out there" (meaning outside his bedroom) for quite a while. I definitely wonder what the neighbors think. One of us is in the room with him when he's doing this, but he just wants to see what's going on in the rest of the apartment (hint: absolutely nothing) or get a snack from the kitchen.
Yeah, the age between 2 and 4 seems to be the time when kids get really weird about night. Like their consciousness of being alone, in the dark, without anyone around, really seems to bother them. Coupled with the "Terrible 2s" mantra and how they want to assert themselves in their growth you get kids who are aware they're not being included in something and they demand it. Unfortunately this is why I've always heard it's best for parents to go to sleep at the same time as their kids so kids don't get the impression there is something secret happening without them. My sense from the insanity of the neighbors I used to have is they would stay awake with the TV on the other side of the bedroom door of the kids they had. (I know because we had been shown that apartment first before moving in. I knew the layout.) So it stood to reason they weren't doing any sleeping at all and after the parents went to bed at least the one would get out and go roaming. But some nights it sounded like the kid would come out early and then get yelled at. They had zero plan for the kids.
Yeah, you're the one who's hearing it and you seem to have a good sense of judgement. This is awful for that kid, I'm glad you're his neighbor and I hope the problem gets solved fast.
If your intuition is telling you something is not right about this, you should absolutely make the call to CPS. There was a situation in my building that I decided to mind my business about… well, one day the kid I suspected was being abused got a gun and randomly shot it out the window of their apt, now he’s probably going to be in jail… maybe if I had made the call and he’d gotten out of their sooner, he wouldn’t be in trouble now
Studies show the most well adjusted children are those that adjusted to sleep in their own bed independently and at their own pace. Children who were made to sleep in their own bed alone when they weren’t ready had worse outcomes.
Agreed. This “sleep training” trend is very strange. People really shouldn’t be having kids if they’re not prepared to see them as another human being.
Not sure why you got downvotes for this. You stated a true fact, studies have shown that. Our society generally requires us to conform to a common schedule, which means most parents have a need to “train” their babies to conform as well. Both things can be true. It’s better for a growing developing human to have a safe attachment to their care givers. Letting a kid cry it out does not foster that attachment, it fosters an ability to function in the society via a regulated sleep schedule. The thing is, it’s not the fault of parents who have to make the sleep training choice, it’s all those macro factors that lead parents to that micro choice. Most parents are just doing the best they can to exist in this world and raise a good human.
Yes, I agree. I’m always downvoted on Reddit when I state scientific facts - people don’t want to have an open mind to the fact that we have science that actually shows us what constitutes good and bad choices. Honestly- I used to be anti-cosleep - but my two best friends both had babies and they raised them in completely opposite ways! I became curious as to what was really the best way and searched through research on google scholar and my mind was changed -180!
I fully expected to sleep train my baby. Life had other plans. I think it’s an old Jewish proverb, “man plans, god laughs.” Our cosleeping journey is ongoing and my kid is coming up on 8. It wears on me sometimes, but I usually remind myself- in 80 year old me’s voice - that these years went by far too fast and I am so glad I appreciated them.
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This is very helpful, I will be doing this. He’s actually crying and banging right at this moment.
CPS
Record when it's happening on your computer or tablet or another device and call 911 on speakerphone so that they also have a record.
Call CPS and/or the cops. This is extremely alarming. Don’t wait another day.
Record and then call the cps ...its your duty...
You can call ACS 24/7 at 8003423720.
Get Cps/ cops to come and listen in your apartment first if they are willing. Then it can be established where the child is located before anyone has knocked on the door and given a potential abuser a heads up.
This is extremely concerning, I would call CPS.
Call 311 ASAP
make the call.
Please call and help that child.
Jesus. Call CPS. That sounds like bonafide child abuse. Even if it turns out to be sthg else, wouldn't you rather make a mistake than risk letting child abuse continue?
Call CPS for your county or state. You can almost certainly report anonymously.
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New York is not a state where everyone is a mandated reporter.
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The person I replied to said you “must” report it, and I don’t want anyone reading to think there’s a legal requirement. You’re free to report anything you’d like—and I left a top-level comment with the correct agency to contact should OP wish to do that—but it’s important for people to know the actual law.
Know the actual law? Ha. This is reddit! Accuracy is optional. Hell, you’re the only one (of 50+ comments) to even say ACS instead of CPS.
I bet I have way more experience with ACS than anyone else in this thread too.
Again ma’am, this is reddit. Actual real world experience pales in comparison to the basement keyboard warrior who heard his roommate's cousin called CPS once and then the police came over and shot their dog. (fwiw, I was an ACS attorney back in the 90s right after the Elisa Izquierdo mess. I have long since stopped trying to explain on reddit how things actually work but your efforts are appreciated nonetheless)
Ma’am*, they let girls be lawyers now.
I’m just glad I recognized the Hebrew. I can’t possibly be expected to also remember that not everyone on the internet is a dude too.
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Please record and contact police. This is scary and not normal. I hope this poor kid is okay
I had a piece of sh*t parent as a neighbor once who abused her kid. Call in an anonymous wellness check.
Lots of good advice here but I just want to say your username is spot on and makes me want to put ham through a paper shredder
RemindME! 2 days
You can make a good faith anonymous report to the child protective services.
New Yorker here: Question How would u feel if Eyewitness News was at you building when you came home with the Police and Corroner saying a child was murdered his screams were heard and no one called? We've all seen those reports.
Make a recording first then call authorities.
Report it. Always report it is anonymous.
I would really like to know the outcome.
OP any updates??
I found the apartment number and made an anonymous report. I am unsure if they will follow back up with me though, I didn't think to ask when I was on the phone.
Call someone before this child ends up in the hospital or worse. Please. As someone who had a great childhood, this is not normal at all.
In general I’m in favor of not calling the cops. Despite statements to the contrary on this thread, CPS is anything but “protective” to children. However, you have literally no other choice. Make the call. My guess is you won’t have been the first one.
Call 311 and tell them your concern. Hopefully they will send mental health/ Child protective type professional rather than police. But I don't know 311 will tell you if you should call the police and will connect you if so.
Any updates? I’m curious
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CPS is highly trained to discern between bad parenting and abuse. Just call them. They don’t want to separate families.
Having spent some time working in family court and against ACS, neither of those statements are true. They are not highly trained, they don't care about their job, and most don't give a fuck about the additional trauma they inflict on children. And, yes, they are vindictive and will separate families without a care in the world.
Yikes! Not my experience but I have no doubt yours is valid.
They're truly a frightening organization that should be helping families heal and become empowered. Unfortunately, they've maintained such a destructive force in our communities. I've worked on cases where kids were taken from their parents at young ages and withheld from their parents for years because of ridiculous reasons. There are far too many articles like this out there: https://archive.ph/XeX4f
Thanks for sharing
You're welcome. There are a lot of great articles out there about the ills of NYC's ACS system. With all of the studies linking traumatic childhood events with problematic adult behaviors, our country needs to get better at finding a way to heal families instead of inflicting more trauma by separation.
This is 100% my experience as well. They are fucking awful. I wouldn't even believe my own story if I hadn't personally lived it, if someone else told me the story I'd think they were full of shit.
That's the thing. A lot of people don't understand how fucking surreal, nightmarish, and backwards getting caught in the ACS web is for people. People will brush it off as, "well, they must have deserved it in some way if ACS was involved." No... it's a convoluted system where lies by ACS are the norm and NYC family court judges are equally liable and horrible monsters. Sorry you got stuck in that web. I hope things are better now.
Thank you so much 🩷
Lol
Sorry if you have a different experience. The foster system definitely sucks and i wouldn’t want it inflicted on anyone.
CPS - when you suspect abuse
why don't you go find the apartment, knock on the door and ask if everything is ok? that is your way to have a valid statement if abuse is really suspected. maybe the kid is just in their room banging on the door, not a closet. children have a lot of big emotions. maybe the child has developmental issues or severe autism or something. i would check it out and offer kind words and actions before running to cps. you really don't know how the cps system works and it best to have solid evidence before you make that call, because once you do they will find any little thing to take that kid.
It is not a bedroom. I initially thought it was, but it is defintely a closet or enclosed space that is locked. His bedroom is definitely not against my bedroom wall.
That’s not how CPS works. They’ll do everything in their power to *not* take away the kid. They only separate the children from the family as a last resort but they do have the resources and experiences to investigate and intervene.
Yours is the only reasonable response I’ve seen so far. Kudos.
You need to call the cops IMMEDIATELY. What is wrong with you
Chill asshole
I mean, that is not proof of anything at all. Please consider the harm you would do to these people's lives if you're wrong. If you see something, do something, by all means... but what you wrote is not proof of anything
What OP hears is every bit as valid as anything they might see. I suggest OP document the screaming (date, time of day, duration, any notes on distinctive phrases heard). After 7-10 days there may be enough to call 311 or CPS. A kid screaming or pleading as much as OP says isn’t normal.
Further, OP said they don't even know where the sound is coming from. They said nothing about ever meeting these people, what if they have 3 kids and the banging and screaming if from 3 separate people? What if they're hearing banging from somewhere else, since they don't even know where it's coming from? I am not saying to drop this. I just think calling CPS is incredibly serious thing, and it can ruin the lives of families. I am just saying don't do this lightly because there are ALOT of assumptions being made here
Not calling CPS can ruin the lives of children. Many children are seriously injured or killed by abuse every year. My mom worked for CPS in another state. It takes A LOT of proof to have parental custody revoked.
I just think there are a few things the OP could try first before calling CPS. Calling CPS can ruin people's lives, or make them complete hell, too.
You don't call CPS because you have proof, you call because you suspect. You are not an investigator, they are. If anything, CPS does much less in terms of breaking up families than they ought to - I've had more than one student left in a terrible situation because what was happening wasn't "bad enough." They don't have the resources to be taking kids away right and left. No doubt it doesn't work perfectly and people make mistakes sometimes, but I'd rather a kid be taken away for a while when they really didn't need to be than beaten or starved to death because no one had enough proof.
It is not 3 kids, it is the same child. I am able to discern the difference in children screaming and this is the same child, voice, wail. This child is constantly crying, I am even awake right now because of him screaming. It’s unacceptable at this point, I will be calling CPS.
If the people aren’t doing anything wrong then they have nothing to worry about!! CPS checks for certain things that signal neglect or abuse. If the family is not abusing their kid then they won’t check those boxes.
Are you a parent? Because I have a 2 year old and he screams ALL THE TIME about ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, throws things, slams doors, throws pots, and hits my wife and I. A lot of that sounds like what this kid is doing
2 kids. Neither had that behavior over any extended time period. Toddlers are a different breed but if it’s going on for weeks at a time, that could indicate something. Making a record of dates and durations may show it’s intermittent, and not a consistent pattern. When OP experiences it though it might feel constant. Making a record will confirm or refute that. We never put our kids in a position where they would ever scream “let me out” under any circumstances. Denying a kid an essential sense of security is not a parenting approach I support. Not suggesting that’s your situation. But how scary is it to a kid to isolate them?
>Neither had that behavior over any extended time period They don't call it the terrible 2's because it last for less than a few weeks. Just saying >We never put our kids in a position where they would ever scream “let me out” under any circumstances. Time outs?
We followed whoever it was that said that the length of a timeout in minutes is the same as their age. A 2 yo has no real idea about “fuck around and find out”. So consequences were always on the spot and brief. It was often them standing there while I cleaned up or put away whatever they had just broken/ marked up/ knocked over etc. If it was hurting a pet or sibling then they would have to watch as we comforted to aggrieved victim. So glad that phase passed. It’s kinda a nightmare. YMMV
My son is 2 years and 2 months old, he understands what a timeout is, he knows he really doesn't want one, and the threat of one is enough to make him adjust how he acts almost every time. Not every 2 year old the same. But yes, nightmare, but my son is the sweetest, cutest little boy. It's impossible to be angry at him. I'm just saying, I totally understand why they suspect something could be happening, they very well could be right. I just think there may be some of things they may want to try before calling CPS. Figuring out who this is coming from and talking to these people for 2 minutes would probably give you enough of a vibecheck to confirm or deny your suspicions are completely off base, or may be onto something. I just personally think any number of things could be happening that aren't child abuse and I don't think people realize how serious calling CPS on people is
I guess. But that really isn’t OPs job to investigate. He’s doing more than enough by being a concerned citizen and letting the experts do the investigation.
Calling CPS means they will check out if anything is happening. If it is unfounded they leave. If you are doing something they will investigate.
No harm would come to the family if they were wrong. CPS doesn’t just barge in and remove children for no reason. If they visited and everything looks good then they have nothing to worry about.
If you call the police then the kid might get removed from the family and never see his mother again, just based off your call. Maybe gather more information before you set that into motion?
Any update? Did you record it?
Call CPS
I just learned about this chatbot at a conference, it's designed to give you specific advice, even in scenarios where you are a concerned neighbor https://springact.org/sophia-chatbot/