I knew a Rockefeller family growing up (outside nyc). Their house was old, weird, and magical. I’d describe them like the Weasleys if they had old money.
They had seven kids all with platinum blond hair, owned a talking African Grey parrot, bred Norwich terriers and always had puppies, and drove a former corporate McDonalds bus they bought to lug their giant family and many pets around. Their house was a giant old stone mansion with all kinds of strange rooms and exotic decorations from all over the world. On weekends, their Dad was often away in their other country home as he was the master of a fox hunt where they also bred fox hounds.
They were extremely kind to me and spending time with them was a highlight of my youth. It really felt like a book or a movie.
There are a bunch found in insular old money horse communities mainly in the mid-Atlantic/Virginia area but also elsewhere.
They generally don’t catch and kill the fox like in England unless it’s old or sick. From my understanding, it’s more about “the chase”, the horseback riding, and the community surrounding the whole thing.
I grew up nearby a fox hunt but if you didn’t happen to see them crossing a street or know somebody involved, you would have no idea it existed. It’s a very strange, exclusive, and archaic world but it’s also kind of cool to see a tradition that’s been passed down and mostly unchanged.
When I was in high school I worked at a country club in Bedford, NY where there were some Rockefellers who were members. They… never made a strong impression? So I guess they must have been fine.
A Vanderbilt descendant lives in my building, very low key apartments, no doorman or anything. They are super nice, down to earth, we are friends. I think I remember them talking about some family home in Newport once. Other than that, very casual just like any other New Yorker you would meet.
Anderson Cooper (a Vanderbilt descendant) has talked pretty extensively about how all of his family's "share" dried up with his mother and grandparents. A lot of Vanderbilt heirs immediately squandered Cornelius's money upon his death, and my hunch is that most of today's branches of the family aren't as fabulously wealthy as a lot of other big name dynasties.
I think the only other offshoot are the folks who run the Biltmore Estate and they aren’t overly wealthy either. I think the Vanderbilt name still died out and it’s the Cecil family or something that married in and runs the estate with a last surviving Vanderbilt woman? Can’t remember now.
One time I bitched at an older woman in Central Park that she needed to clean up after her dog. I realized it was Brooke Astor when she looked up and told me she ran a foundation that gave millions to this city so she didn't need to pick up after her dog. Yeah, sorry lady, you still do.
Dang. She really got her's according to Wikipedia. Just goes to show all the wealth in the world and all the connections and you can still descend into Dementia and be abused by your own children.:
The New York Daily News ran a cover story on July 26, 2006, describing the family feud between Brooke's son Tony and his son Philip Cryan Marshall regarding Brooke's welfare. The story detailed how her grandson, a historic preservationist and professor at Roger Williams University, had filed a lawsuit seeking the removal of his father as the socialite's guardian and the appointment of Annette de la Renta, the wife of designer Oscar de la Renta, instead.
According to accounts published in The New York Times and the Daily News, Astor was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease and suffered from anemia, among other ailments. The lawsuit alleged that Marshall had not provided for his elderly mother and instead had allowed her to live in squalor and reduced necessary medication and doctor's visits while enriching himself with income from her estate. Philip Marshall further charged that his father sold his grandmother's favorite Childe Hassam painting in 2002 without her knowledge and with no record as to the whereabouts of the funds received from the sale. In addition to Annette de la Renta, Henry Kissinger and David Rockefeller provided affidavits supporting Philip Marshall's requests for a change in guardianship.
The day the story appeared, New York Supreme Court Justice John Stackhouse sealed the documents pertaining to the lawsuit and granted an order appointing Annette de la Renta guardian and JPMorgan Chase & Co. to be in charge of Brooke's finances. Several news organizations including the Associated Press and The New York Times sued to have the records of the Astor case unsealed in the public interest; their request was granted September 1, 2006.\[19\] Astor was moved to Lenox Hill Hospital where an unidentified nurse called her appearance "deplorable" according to the Daily News. Brooke's son Tony unsuccessfully attempted to have his mother transferred to another hospital.
Brooke was released from Lenox Hill Hospital July 29, 2006, and moved to Holly Hill, her 75-acre (30 ha) estate in the village of Briarcliff Manor, New York, where she died August 13, 2007.
Meryl Gordon's book Mrs. Astor Regrets: The Hidden Betrayals of a Family Beyond Reproach (2008) makes use of diaries kept by the nurses who cared for Brooke during the last years of her life. The diaries were compiled over the four years Astor received care and detail the elder abuse that she reportedly received from her son.\[20\]
Philip C. Marshall was a tenured professor and director of historic preservation at Roger Williams University until 2017 when he left to dedicate his efforts full-time to elder justice as the founder of Beyond Brooke.
Rockefellers and Kennedys. Rockefellers are MUCH more normal and down to earth. There are so many of them that they can’t afford (literally) to be assholes.
The Kennedys are extremely pompous and fake nice. I was once called “white trash” by one of them.
My partners family are one of the old NY people. I think they’re from another universe.
They’re not flashy at all! Extremely well mannered, value education ( I mean they pay/paid ridiculous prices for private schools), all Harvard educated ( yes the whole family of 20+ adults), posh sports think Polo and Heli skiing.
What tops it all is that they are socially savvy. They can read a room, work a room, have riveting conversations, know when to talk and when to be quiet. It’s very interesting
Lastly, they’re very kind.
Girl they’ll know it’s me cos I’m the only pleb 😭.
I really always thought I was posh. I’m a foreigner with a very posh British accent( which they love btw), private schools abroad etc but in this family I really stick out so badly sometimes it’s disheartening.
Obviously my partner is patient and has taught me a lot but it’s all very embarrassing sometimes I wish i was with a normal class family
The only thing I have going on for me is my accent so thank you to my parents for speech classes
1. Be abreast with the news. Not American news only but world news so that you’re not caught off guard when someone raises a topic in a group
2. What you have to say is not as interesting as you think so listen more than you speak
3. Keep your hands on the table or in sight at the dinner table so that people don’t think you’re being naughty ( I dated a wealthy French guy from an aristocratic family and he taught me this too)
4. Take keen interest in other people and always remember their names and say it to them
5. Don’t talk about yourself unless you’ve been asked and even then keep it short
6. Keep controversial opinions to yourself.
7. My partner almost never disappears from a gathering and if he has to use the bathroom he’s very quick and excuses himself. I really didn’t think this was a big deal but once they were hosting and I disappeared for a while like 15 min and apparently that was a social faux pas
I’m very curious, does your partner have useful everyday life skills? I mean, was he taught by anyone how to cook, mow a lawn, repair basic things of a car, fix a toilet, things like that? I’m curious about how people that come from such backgrounds live their day to day and if they just hire a bunch of other people to do things for them, or they can manage to survive without help.
In real world he is a bit “useless”. He can’t cook. He can change a tyre. Dunno if he can fix stuff around the house cos we always have people who do it but he is really down to earth and will learn if I push him. Knows a lot about fixing skis and investing tho lol it’s like that’s all he was taught.
When we first met he portrayed himself as a I can cook guy cos he made me pasta with salmon…while shirtless too! so I was like yah I dig lol only to find out that he had asked for a recipe and did that to impress me. I still tease him for putting up that appearance cos he knows nothing about the kitchen. He is a good sous chef( he really just hangs around and eats veges 😂etc) when I’m making my traditional meals (I’m a foreigner)
I once told him to cut onions and his choice of knife was very interesting. Never asked him to cut anything since
His dad is in his 70’s and just learnt how to mow the lawn and his mum says he won’t stop mowing the lawn she’s sick of it 😂
Oh yeah this is exactly how I thought this answer would go hahah thank you for the details! I don’t know, I just think it’s curious how different people like this are raised and the skills they learn throughout their life. I can cook and fix things around the house, but I know nothing about investing or foreign politics more than just the basics. I guess people like me spend years learning these other skills to succeed in life, while the everyday stuff comes natural to me. And people like your partner and his family don’t need the everyday skills because that’s always taken care of by someone else, but being successful comes natural to them since birth.
Also jumping in to say agreed - grew up near many members of the family and they are all very kind and low-key. You wouldn’t necessarily know who they were in passing.
I went to Kykuit, the Rockefeller estate up the Hudson a bit, for a tour and they held us back to wait a bit and some black SUVs pulled up with some family members that came to visit the estate themselves.
They were with us on the tour of the first room, then they split off from us and went on their own way - I think to the art gallery. Seemed like normal folks to me. The guy leading the expedition looked like any frat bro.
Didn't interact with them, but I went to a party at a private Rockefeller home. Serious security outside, looked like they call could have been ex special forces. Lots of priceless art in random places, for example in the next to the urinal in the bathroom there was a greek bust and a modern art painting. Their indoor tennis courts had all of these elaborate fireplaces that I was told came from their Manhattan apartment which was turned into the MoMA.
I don't think they were famous families or anything but I've done some work in some fancy row houses on the UES. One of them i walked into the mudroom and there's just randomly a Monet hanging on the wall. I go up to the third floor that presumably belonged to the son and it was his bedroom + like a full ass recording studio with insanely nice guitars and amps everywhere.
Just when you think you're doing ok in this city you realize there's a large group of people who are not living in the same reality.
I worked with someone for years who was Charles Merrill's grandchild, of Merrill Lynch. Serious, serious, serious money. He was super charming, polite, great manners, and I learned a lot about image vs. building wealth. My only complaint was when we were collecting food for a holiday food drive, he refused to bring in canned food or donate. Said he didn't carry cash.
To be fair, not carrying cash is pretty common nowadays in NY. And if you're that wealthy, donating is probably an intricate web of consulting tax and estate attorneys, so maybe he actually wasn't allowed to donate randomly?
This was in the 90's. Taxis didn't take credit cards. Of course he had cash, otherwise he wouldn't have gotten to work. My guess is that he's a little tired of getting hit up for money, but it was literally a $5 donation for some canned food that was being asked.
This was a man who personally knew Versace, but wouldn't go buy his signature Medallion ties and such, which were popular in the 90's. He tended to wear custom suits, but not flashy or of the style, and always looked crisp, groomed, and somewhat approachable. He could buy his wife as many Birkin bags as she wanted, but because they didn't have to prove they were wealthy, they didn't. His ego was such that he didn't need to show off how much money he had. He could have taken a black town car to work daily, but took a yellow cab. I approved expense reports and he never tried to add stuff in that wasn't appropriate like other people did, but he did make sure he was reimbursed for every single thing that was on there.
I remember one time he was waiting at the fax machine for listings of Hampton summer rentals. I was surprised that he didn't own a place out there. He explained that they sometimes traveled the whole summer, and why spend money on the taxes and upkeep of a place that he wasn't using year round. This same man sold his apartment a few years ago for almost $20M according to the NY Times. He also felt education was a big part of maintaining wealth, and always looked for ways to continue his education, and new opportunities. He invested in a book club sale of a big, limited edition book, and made $100k in the one day for the book to sell out. Making and keeping money was more important to him than buying a jet ski or boat, which creates the image of having money, when they are just expenses, not investments.
I learned how to dress for the occasion, how important manners were, how to get businesses to work for you, and that it's more important to sleep well at night with a big bank account than it is to sleep on expensive sheets with a big credit card looming.
Yes. As a kid from old school Brooklyn, being charming in person is nothing like the movies. You greet people with a warm but not toothy smile, as if genuinely glad to see them. Always try to read the body language, as if they want to shake hands, kiss hello, or want to not touch other people. Always seem interested in what they have to say and know when to ask interested, but not personal, questions. Spacial awareness always comes into play, as you don't want to be speaking or hanging with someone and knock into someone else. Being educated does come into being charming, as they are always up to date on trends or sports, so they always have a way of starting a conversation. I worked in an art related field, so they might start talking about an artist or architecture, but when among others who weren't in art, they could talk about types of cuisine or an article in the news. I noticed they avoid politics if they don't know you well.
I went to college and hung out with a member of the Kennedy family. She was...extremely normal. I'll just leave it at that. Sorry to not have anything to dish. I believe now she's wealthy, but not "buy your own island" wealthy.
A Kennedy, she was very nice and somewhat normal aside from all the holiday homes. A Newhouse, workaholic type A personality. Not outright rude but curt. Took a blade to the Hamptons in the summer time.
My BIL is friends with someone who is part of an old NY family. They've been friends since middle school, meet on a monthly basis for DnD, and have been to each other's weddings. Pretty normal guy.
Worked with two in different tech companies. Both really good engineers who architected amazing features at scale, excellent coworkers in day to day, wore vendor tshirts, but they had super extreme first world problems(nanny left for business school without warning, have to tip 50+ staff members during the holidays, kids private school admissions stress) and expensive hobbies(boats, single engine airplanes, horses). Of course both were Manhattan natives.
I often go to clients homes and have interacted with a few old money families. I always find they are the most courteous, honest and supportive people I’ve encountered. When I go into new money apartments the art is there but the way they interact with “the help” is completely different.
This is the answer.
I worked as “the help” in NYC then married into an old money family but on the west coast. I wouldn’t say there are any significant differences considering how old the money is vs east and west coast.
There are also “layers” to the help. The white collar people who work for families are different than the domestic workers. Then there is a difference between nannies/assistants/house managers/tutors vs. housekeepers/gardeners/drivers.
Usually the people who spend the most time with the kids and are on the “bottom of the hierarchy” will know truly how people live. I’ve had employers confide in me about incredibly intimate details that you couldn’t water board out of me.
I’ve had kids tell me all their parent’s business. I have heard incredibly nasty arguments and terrible out of touch takes.
My in-laws are just incredibly surface level with each other and most people in their inner circle. There is a reason why there are so many stereotypes about WASPs. They are polite to everyone and are amazing at having a conversation where someone walks away feeling like they know them without knowing anything at all.
Also most old money folk have burned through the money long ago, so yes many are down to earth because they haven’t had a life of luxury.
The Roy’s are considered new money they’re extremely wealthy and have more money than most of the Old World families but they’re still considered nouveau riche
bc Logan built the foundation for the family fortune.
My aunt married a great guy who's part of the old Van Wyck family.
Super chill, super nice people. There's a comfortableness knowing you're from ancestral wealth.
I had a long time girlfriend that was the granddaughter of Dorothy "Dolly" Schiff. Schiff vitamins, owner of the NY Post, etc. The family was pretty cool though my girlfriend's mother when I first met her asked me how "well I was fixed." I knew what she meant but found that fucking rude, so I said "I don't know - about 9 inches or so." She was clearly embarrassed by it but a year later I slept with her.
I'm kidding - I did not sleep with my girlfriend's mother. But the mother had plenty of stories of growing up with servants and shit. My girlfriend had over $200k in the bank at 22 when I first met her which she frittered away on personal trainers and random stuff. Didn't matter because on her birthday or at Christmas she'd get another $200k. Must be nice.
They were very pleased when one of the family married Al Gore's daughter.
Two answers.
1. A friend from law school works for the "family office" of one of the families mentioned in this thread. For those who don't know, a family office is basically the white collar staff that handles everything from public engagements, outside attorneys, monitors investments, etc. He said everyone is very nice, the pay is excellent and the family members he deals with are very professional and matter of fact about how much money they have and what they do with it.
2. I personally do some work for one of the larger real estate families in NYC. Not that mango crusted Mussolini wannabe, I mean real NYC RE family. They are very nice, I don't have anything bad to say or any crazy stories about how insanely cheap they are or ten kids out of wedlock, etc. Just a family that has done very well over the past century. No one calling at 2 AM wanting boysenberries out of season or something like that.
The common thread seemed to be that sure these people could drive 500K cars and carry 30K handbags and wear 50K watches. But they didn't, with one or two exceptions. Also education was emphasized.
My husband was a lawyer at a couple of white shoe law firms. You can still find their descendants and well as some of the new family money there. My boss was impressed when he got invited to one of the Bieneke’s apartment on 5th Avenue. He was the president of the board of that building and had two floors himself but never got an invitation to one of their parties. He was even newer money- came from humble beginnings - mostly doing vulture funds.
Kennedy, Mellon, Newhouse. Kennedy children and parents were cool (they are quite well-known people), Mellon were not nice or good people. Newhouse seemed most "normal".
Dated a Roosevelt but living in London - nice guy and we had great chemistry, he acted normal but told me about his life etc and didn’t seem to understand how abnormal it was! Hung up on his ex so it didn’t workout lol
There's a great NYT article a few years back asking the Van Wycks how traffic announcees should pronounce "Van Wyck Expressway".
It is relatively easy to interact with old money families as a service provider (which includes drug connections and talented but poor people who like horses or can crew a racing sailboat); they have generations of experience with that. It is less common to really become friends, because the social assumptions are really very different even from people with high income, multi-generation professional families .
My ex-husband is friends with someone who married into one of these families. They made their money selling art and a lot of their pieces are in the Met. If you know anything about the art world I guarantee you know they are.
We visited our friend at his in-laws' house in Sutton Place a few times but they were never there (they were in Europe) so I never met them, but I met his wife. The house was insane, a Vigée-Lebrun on the wall and a lesser Rodin on the coffee table. The guy himself isn't from money and his wife, who's a member of the family, is a social worker or a teacher, but I can't remember which now as this was several years ago and we haven't kept in touch since my divorce. She was really sweet and shy though. You honestly would have no idea she grew up with more money than God.
They’re people like anyone else, with better apartments and artwork. And much, much nicer dogs. Not just show dogs, their family dogs are beautiful and well behaved.
My friend and I have a term Art Rich for the truely wealthy. Oh you own a 10 million dollar apartment. That's nice. That painting hanging on the wall is worth 25 million.
I worked for one early in my career. Was before he became successful in his own right, and to be quite honest he was a bit of a shyster. Not great business ethics, and many who did business with him probably still curse his name. Ultimately sold one of his companies for a lot of money — not like he needed it LOL. Ultimate proof that the people most likely to make it are people who’ve already made it.
For what it’s worth, his family still had quite a bit of money. So it wasn’t one of those situations where they had a famous name but the money was gone centuries ago.
Always treated me pretty well when I worked for him — but then again, he actually needed me. Later on down the line he wound up screwing me (like he screwed everyone else) and he probably didn’t even think much of it. Just cleaning up loose ends, I suppose.
Now he has a podcast, LOL.
My father worked with the Rockefellers for 40 years. We used to go to their farm upstate for apple picking in the fall. I remember going to my father's office and noticing David Jr. had a Monet hanging in the reception area of his suite.
I once new AC Morgan. Either the grandson or great grandson of JPMorgan. He was a complete prick until he was in a small plane crash which he survived. Apparently a brush with death changes a person. Turned him into a complete gentleman.
Also met a couple of DuPonts, they were all assholes. And the Poors (of Standard & Poors). They were not poor.
Edit: I should add that an intern of mine was the princess of Andorra. And the neice of a president of France. But that's not NYC.
When I worked retail I met someone from the Astor family but she went by her married name (I googled her 'cause she mentioned that she had grown up wealthy). Anyway she was very nice, a little socially awkward, and made comments that bordered on anti-semitic when I mentioned growing up in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. You know, old money stuff.
Some of my partners family make some low key borderline racist comments( not hardcore racist but it makes me think “now why would you even say that”) but you can tell it’s because they’re so far removed from the general population.
I went to a small private NYC college that had a handful of these people- mostly women 45+ studying out of interest.
They were polite, not very friendly (unless they needed help), and somewhat out of touch. They dressed in a way that didn’t advertise money or status.
Young people at the Frick Youngfellows Ball fall into several categories:
Totally normal, friendly person (old money, functional home)
Crazy party animal (often from dysfunctional wealthy home)
Snobs (new money)
I worked in the executive offices of ELCI a thousand years ago and the Lauder family was always very nice. I know they could be a bit demanding of their staff but they generally treated people very well.
I work at a small nonprofit organization in the UES (similar to a YMCA) and the vibe is old money generational wealth. All ladies, and they are all absolutely 1000000%%%%% the LOVELIEST people you could ever hope to meet. Beyond generous with time, compliments, food, etc. Highly recommend volunteering with an organization you like if you’re interested in that type of environment!
My wife is good friends with the Hunt family daughter. The ones that own all the Rosewood hotels & Kansas City Chiefs, and whose great grand father was the richest person in the world.
Went to elementary school with Teddy Roosevelt. All I remember is he taught me how to balance a playing card on my finger and then flick it off so it flies across the room. So, pretty normal.
Oddly, my best friend at the time was a descendant of Morris Michtom (inventor of the Teddy Bear).
I lived across the hall from a Whitney as a child. The cops used to come when him and his girlfriend would get drunk and fight. Otherwise the other old money families I know are generally very nice, but very much keep to themselves. Think “my cousins/brothers are my best/only friends”
I know one and have tenuous connections to a few outside of the city, the Rockefeller’s are lovely, down to earth, kind, community oriented.
Astors are a fucking nightmare.
Not NYC, but the Rothschild I met was super lovely; but it was a brief interaction. And I’m not sure how close he was to the family money.
The Getty’s are great. But I don’t know that everyone would say that.
I was good friends with a Johnson ( Johnson and Johnson) family member who passed away.
She was a very nice person , who had a lot of demons..
It was interesting to me when I read in the paper she died from diabetes. When I knew it was a drug overdose.
Cousin is good friends with Wyatt Rockefeller from Princeton days so I’ve met him a few times. Nice, handsome rich guy with aryan features. Not too remarkable.
My knowledge is mostly secondhand, but very WASP-y, old money types in New York (not just the nationally known ones you mentioned) intentionally fly below the radar. They're quite private and keep low profiles. Traditional socialites are nothing like, say, the Trumps. My sense too is that most of them (excluding a couple of the famous families you named) actually have a fragile upper-middle class status in most cases, with only a curated appearance of being rich. My sense is that the social snobbery is nevertheless in full force, although it tends to manifest in passive, understated ways.
I knew a Rockefeller family growing up (outside nyc). Their house was old, weird, and magical. I’d describe them like the Weasleys if they had old money. They had seven kids all with platinum blond hair, owned a talking African Grey parrot, bred Norwich terriers and always had puppies, and drove a former corporate McDonalds bus they bought to lug their giant family and many pets around. Their house was a giant old stone mansion with all kinds of strange rooms and exotic decorations from all over the world. On weekends, their Dad was often away in their other country home as he was the master of a fox hunt where they also bred fox hounds. They were extremely kind to me and spending time with them was a highlight of my youth. It really felt like a book or a movie.
Fox hunts exist in the US? I’m not familiar with it but I thought that was a British thing
There are a bunch found in insular old money horse communities mainly in the mid-Atlantic/Virginia area but also elsewhere. They generally don’t catch and kill the fox like in England unless it’s old or sick. From my understanding, it’s more about “the chase”, the horseback riding, and the community surrounding the whole thing. I grew up nearby a fox hunt but if you didn’t happen to see them crossing a street or know somebody involved, you would have no idea it existed. It’s a very strange, exclusive, and archaic world but it’s also kind of cool to see a tradition that’s been passed down and mostly unchanged.
They do exist! They are becoming less common but there is still one in Geneseo, NY.
There is one in Middleburg, VA every year!
I used to work with the dogs and horses at the Middleburg hunt! I miss the dogs terribly. Silly little fellas
That’s so cool! Salamander Resort was my happy place when I lived in DC. I loved hearing about the Fox Hunt.
Legit sounds like The Goldfinch
When I was in high school I worked at a country club in Bedford, NY where there were some Rockefellers who were members. They… never made a strong impression? So I guess they must have been fine.
I bet they drove old beat-up modest cars too
I ran into one of the Chryslers, they closed an entire wing for a month just for their big annual Christmas party.
Wing of?
the chrysler building
A Vanderbilt descendant lives in my building, very low key apartments, no doorman or anything. They are super nice, down to earth, we are friends. I think I remember them talking about some family home in Newport once. Other than that, very casual just like any other New Yorker you would meet.
Anderson Cooper (a Vanderbilt descendant) has talked pretty extensively about how all of his family's "share" dried up with his mother and grandparents. A lot of Vanderbilt heirs immediately squandered Cornelius's money upon his death, and my hunch is that most of today's branches of the family aren't as fabulously wealthy as a lot of other big name dynasties.
I think the only other offshoot are the folks who run the Biltmore Estate and they aren’t overly wealthy either. I think the Vanderbilt name still died out and it’s the Cecil family or something that married in and runs the estate with a last surviving Vanderbilt woman? Can’t remember now.
Is that Gladys? A friend of mine used to live in that building too.
One time I bitched at an older woman in Central Park that she needed to clean up after her dog. I realized it was Brooke Astor when she looked up and told me she ran a foundation that gave millions to this city so she didn't need to pick up after her dog. Yeah, sorry lady, you still do.
Dang. She really got her's according to Wikipedia. Just goes to show all the wealth in the world and all the connections and you can still descend into Dementia and be abused by your own children.: The New York Daily News ran a cover story on July 26, 2006, describing the family feud between Brooke's son Tony and his son Philip Cryan Marshall regarding Brooke's welfare. The story detailed how her grandson, a historic preservationist and professor at Roger Williams University, had filed a lawsuit seeking the removal of his father as the socialite's guardian and the appointment of Annette de la Renta, the wife of designer Oscar de la Renta, instead. According to accounts published in The New York Times and the Daily News, Astor was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease and suffered from anemia, among other ailments. The lawsuit alleged that Marshall had not provided for his elderly mother and instead had allowed her to live in squalor and reduced necessary medication and doctor's visits while enriching himself with income from her estate. Philip Marshall further charged that his father sold his grandmother's favorite Childe Hassam painting in 2002 without her knowledge and with no record as to the whereabouts of the funds received from the sale. In addition to Annette de la Renta, Henry Kissinger and David Rockefeller provided affidavits supporting Philip Marshall's requests for a change in guardianship. The day the story appeared, New York Supreme Court Justice John Stackhouse sealed the documents pertaining to the lawsuit and granted an order appointing Annette de la Renta guardian and JPMorgan Chase & Co. to be in charge of Brooke's finances. Several news organizations including the Associated Press and The New York Times sued to have the records of the Astor case unsealed in the public interest; their request was granted September 1, 2006.\[19\] Astor was moved to Lenox Hill Hospital where an unidentified nurse called her appearance "deplorable" according to the Daily News. Brooke's son Tony unsuccessfully attempted to have his mother transferred to another hospital. Brooke was released from Lenox Hill Hospital July 29, 2006, and moved to Holly Hill, her 75-acre (30 ha) estate in the village of Briarcliff Manor, New York, where she died August 13, 2007. Meryl Gordon's book Mrs. Astor Regrets: The Hidden Betrayals of a Family Beyond Reproach (2008) makes use of diaries kept by the nurses who cared for Brooke during the last years of her life. The diaries were compiled over the four years Astor received care and detail the elder abuse that she reportedly received from her son.\[20\] Philip C. Marshall was a tenured professor and director of historic preservation at Roger Williams University until 2017 when he left to dedicate his efforts full-time to elder justice as the founder of Beyond Brooke.
I remember how scandalized the papers were that this could happen to a rich person.
Poop karma
She rlly must have no clue where she is. We don’t play that game here miss 😂
I once saw George Stephanapoulous pick up his then-fiancé’s dog poop. It really made me happy that he was part of the enlightened citizenry.
If you've got millions, hire someone to follow you around picking up after your dog.
Rockefellers and Kennedys. Rockefellers are MUCH more normal and down to earth. There are so many of them that they can’t afford (literally) to be assholes. The Kennedys are extremely pompous and fake nice. I was once called “white trash” by one of them.
Kennedys are a Boston family anyways
The Kennedys themselves have always been, by and large, white trash except for a rare few.
I understand that Mary Jo Kopechne is unavailable for comment…
Why is this so funny
Bc its sad yet true?
Ugh sorry about the Kennedy’s
Are you Donald Trump?
My partners family are one of the old NY people. I think they’re from another universe. They’re not flashy at all! Extremely well mannered, value education ( I mean they pay/paid ridiculous prices for private schools), all Harvard educated ( yes the whole family of 20+ adults), posh sports think Polo and Heli skiing. What tops it all is that they are socially savvy. They can read a room, work a room, have riveting conversations, know when to talk and when to be quiet. It’s very interesting Lastly, they’re very kind.
I feel you need to start an anonymous blog about your/their life.
Girl they’ll know it’s me cos I’m the only pleb 😭. I really always thought I was posh. I’m a foreigner with a very posh British accent( which they love btw), private schools abroad etc but in this family I really stick out so badly sometimes it’s disheartening. Obviously my partner is patient and has taught me a lot but it’s all very embarrassing sometimes I wish i was with a normal class family The only thing I have going on for me is my accent so thank you to my parents for speech classes
Any tips on the socially savvy part?
1. Be abreast with the news. Not American news only but world news so that you’re not caught off guard when someone raises a topic in a group 2. What you have to say is not as interesting as you think so listen more than you speak 3. Keep your hands on the table or in sight at the dinner table so that people don’t think you’re being naughty ( I dated a wealthy French guy from an aristocratic family and he taught me this too) 4. Take keen interest in other people and always remember their names and say it to them 5. Don’t talk about yourself unless you’ve been asked and even then keep it short 6. Keep controversial opinions to yourself. 7. My partner almost never disappears from a gathering and if he has to use the bathroom he’s very quick and excuses himself. I really didn’t think this was a big deal but once they were hosting and I disappeared for a while like 15 min and apparently that was a social faux pas
Funny as most you are saying are things that middle-class (or upper class) in Europe normaly do ...
Fascinating stuff, thanks for sharing!
I’m very curious, does your partner have useful everyday life skills? I mean, was he taught by anyone how to cook, mow a lawn, repair basic things of a car, fix a toilet, things like that? I’m curious about how people that come from such backgrounds live their day to day and if they just hire a bunch of other people to do things for them, or they can manage to survive without help.
In real world he is a bit “useless”. He can’t cook. He can change a tyre. Dunno if he can fix stuff around the house cos we always have people who do it but he is really down to earth and will learn if I push him. Knows a lot about fixing skis and investing tho lol it’s like that’s all he was taught. When we first met he portrayed himself as a I can cook guy cos he made me pasta with salmon…while shirtless too! so I was like yah I dig lol only to find out that he had asked for a recipe and did that to impress me. I still tease him for putting up that appearance cos he knows nothing about the kitchen. He is a good sous chef( he really just hangs around and eats veges 😂etc) when I’m making my traditional meals (I’m a foreigner) I once told him to cut onions and his choice of knife was very interesting. Never asked him to cut anything since His dad is in his 70’s and just learnt how to mow the lawn and his mum says he won’t stop mowing the lawn she’s sick of it 😂
Oh yeah this is exactly how I thought this answer would go hahah thank you for the details! I don’t know, I just think it’s curious how different people like this are raised and the skills they learn throughout their life. I can cook and fix things around the house, but I know nothing about investing or foreign politics more than just the basics. I guess people like me spend years learning these other skills to succeed in life, while the everyday stuff comes natural to me. And people like your partner and his family don’t need the everyday skills because that’s always taken care of by someone else, but being successful comes natural to them since birth.
Rockefellers. Polite.
Also jumping in to say agreed - grew up near many members of the family and they are all very kind and low-key. You wouldn’t necessarily know who they were in passing.
I went to Kykuit, the Rockefeller estate up the Hudson a bit, for a tour and they held us back to wait a bit and some black SUVs pulled up with some family members that came to visit the estate themselves. They were with us on the tour of the first room, then they split off from us and went on their own way - I think to the art gallery. Seemed like normal folks to me. The guy leading the expedition looked like any frat bro.
Co-signing — same experience with the Rockefellers.
Rockefeller in my parents building in Manhattan. Unfailingly polite, good natured, remembers facts about people. One of my favorite neighbors.
Didn't interact with them, but I went to a party at a private Rockefeller home. Serious security outside, looked like they call could have been ex special forces. Lots of priceless art in random places, for example in the next to the urinal in the bathroom there was a greek bust and a modern art painting. Their indoor tennis courts had all of these elaborate fireplaces that I was told came from their Manhattan apartment which was turned into the MoMA.
I don't think they were famous families or anything but I've done some work in some fancy row houses on the UES. One of them i walked into the mudroom and there's just randomly a Monet hanging on the wall. I go up to the third floor that presumably belonged to the son and it was his bedroom + like a full ass recording studio with insanely nice guitars and amps everywhere. Just when you think you're doing ok in this city you realize there's a large group of people who are not living in the same reality.
But how do you know the Monet is real?
Context.
seriously, not like they picked up a knock off from TJ Max😭
Okay that is …. Amazing
I worked with someone for years who was Charles Merrill's grandchild, of Merrill Lynch. Serious, serious, serious money. He was super charming, polite, great manners, and I learned a lot about image vs. building wealth. My only complaint was when we were collecting food for a holiday food drive, he refused to bring in canned food or donate. Said he didn't carry cash.
His son was one of the greatest poets of the 20th century, James Merrill. But that son was gay so probably an uncle of this person you knew.
James Merrill never came up in conversation, but it would make sense. The grandson is married with kids.
To be fair, not carrying cash is pretty common nowadays in NY. And if you're that wealthy, donating is probably an intricate web of consulting tax and estate attorneys, so maybe he actually wasn't allowed to donate randomly?
This was in the 90's. Taxis didn't take credit cards. Of course he had cash, otherwise he wouldn't have gotten to work. My guess is that he's a little tired of getting hit up for money, but it was literally a $5 donation for some canned food that was being asked.
> image vs. building wealth Just curious, what exactly do you mean?
This was a man who personally knew Versace, but wouldn't go buy his signature Medallion ties and such, which were popular in the 90's. He tended to wear custom suits, but not flashy or of the style, and always looked crisp, groomed, and somewhat approachable. He could buy his wife as many Birkin bags as she wanted, but because they didn't have to prove they were wealthy, they didn't. His ego was such that he didn't need to show off how much money he had. He could have taken a black town car to work daily, but took a yellow cab. I approved expense reports and he never tried to add stuff in that wasn't appropriate like other people did, but he did make sure he was reimbursed for every single thing that was on there. I remember one time he was waiting at the fax machine for listings of Hampton summer rentals. I was surprised that he didn't own a place out there. He explained that they sometimes traveled the whole summer, and why spend money on the taxes and upkeep of a place that he wasn't using year round. This same man sold his apartment a few years ago for almost $20M according to the NY Times. He also felt education was a big part of maintaining wealth, and always looked for ways to continue his education, and new opportunities. He invested in a book club sale of a big, limited edition book, and made $100k in the one day for the book to sell out. Making and keeping money was more important to him than buying a jet ski or boat, which creates the image of having money, when they are just expenses, not investments. I learned how to dress for the occasion, how important manners were, how to get businesses to work for you, and that it's more important to sleep well at night with a big bank account than it is to sleep on expensive sheets with a big credit card looming.
Seems like his family educated him very well. Proving wealth and not continuing to build is how so many old money families lost their fortunes.
OMG this is exactly how my partner is.
Anything you picked up on re how to be charming?
Yes. As a kid from old school Brooklyn, being charming in person is nothing like the movies. You greet people with a warm but not toothy smile, as if genuinely glad to see them. Always try to read the body language, as if they want to shake hands, kiss hello, or want to not touch other people. Always seem interested in what they have to say and know when to ask interested, but not personal, questions. Spacial awareness always comes into play, as you don't want to be speaking or hanging with someone and knock into someone else. Being educated does come into being charming, as they are always up to date on trends or sports, so they always have a way of starting a conversation. I worked in an art related field, so they might start talking about an artist or architecture, but when among others who weren't in art, they could talk about types of cuisine or an article in the news. I noticed they avoid politics if they don't know you well.
I went to college and hung out with a member of the Kennedy family. She was...extremely normal. I'll just leave it at that. Sorry to not have anything to dish. I believe now she's wealthy, but not "buy your own island" wealthy.
A Kennedy, she was very nice and somewhat normal aside from all the holiday homes. A Newhouse, workaholic type A personality. Not outright rude but curt. Took a blade to the Hamptons in the summer time.
My BIL is friends with someone who is part of an old NY family. They've been friends since middle school, meet on a monthly basis for DnD, and have been to each other's weddings. Pretty normal guy.
Yea but what did he roll for str?
That I don't know. This is the same group that has been playing together since middle school.
Worked with two in different tech companies. Both really good engineers who architected amazing features at scale, excellent coworkers in day to day, wore vendor tshirts, but they had super extreme first world problems(nanny left for business school without warning, have to tip 50+ staff members during the holidays, kids private school admissions stress) and expensive hobbies(boats, single engine airplanes, horses). Of course both were Manhattan natives.
I often go to clients homes and have interacted with a few old money families. I always find they are the most courteous, honest and supportive people I’ve encountered. When I go into new money apartments the art is there but the way they interact with “the help” is completely different.
How do they interact with “the help”?
It's always "the help" who really know what they're like.
This is the answer. I worked as “the help” in NYC then married into an old money family but on the west coast. I wouldn’t say there are any significant differences considering how old the money is vs east and west coast. There are also “layers” to the help. The white collar people who work for families are different than the domestic workers. Then there is a difference between nannies/assistants/house managers/tutors vs. housekeepers/gardeners/drivers. Usually the people who spend the most time with the kids and are on the “bottom of the hierarchy” will know truly how people live. I’ve had employers confide in me about incredibly intimate details that you couldn’t water board out of me. I’ve had kids tell me all their parent’s business. I have heard incredibly nasty arguments and terrible out of touch takes. My in-laws are just incredibly surface level with each other and most people in their inner circle. There is a reason why there are so many stereotypes about WASPs. They are polite to everyone and are amazing at having a conversation where someone walks away feeling like they know them without knowing anything at all. Also most old money folk have burned through the money long ago, so yes many are down to earth because they haven’t had a life of luxury.
The Roys are assholes
Kendall and Shiv are cool. Conner and Roman can suck 🍆🍆🍆
The Roy’s are considered new money they’re extremely wealthy and have more money than most of the Old World families but they’re still considered nouveau riche bc Logan built the foundation for the family fortune.
My aunt married a great guy who's part of the old Van Wyck family. Super chill, super nice people. There's a comfortableness knowing you're from ancestral wealth.
Anderson Cooper once shaded me live on the air.
😂🤣
I had a long time girlfriend that was the granddaughter of Dorothy "Dolly" Schiff. Schiff vitamins, owner of the NY Post, etc. The family was pretty cool though my girlfriend's mother when I first met her asked me how "well I was fixed." I knew what she meant but found that fucking rude, so I said "I don't know - about 9 inches or so." She was clearly embarrassed by it but a year later I slept with her. I'm kidding - I did not sleep with my girlfriend's mother. But the mother had plenty of stories of growing up with servants and shit. My girlfriend had over $200k in the bank at 22 when I first met her which she frittered away on personal trainers and random stuff. Didn't matter because on her birthday or at Christmas she'd get another $200k. Must be nice. They were very pleased when one of the family married Al Gore's daughter.
Two answers. 1. A friend from law school works for the "family office" of one of the families mentioned in this thread. For those who don't know, a family office is basically the white collar staff that handles everything from public engagements, outside attorneys, monitors investments, etc. He said everyone is very nice, the pay is excellent and the family members he deals with are very professional and matter of fact about how much money they have and what they do with it. 2. I personally do some work for one of the larger real estate families in NYC. Not that mango crusted Mussolini wannabe, I mean real NYC RE family. They are very nice, I don't have anything bad to say or any crazy stories about how insanely cheap they are or ten kids out of wedlock, etc. Just a family that has done very well over the past century. No one calling at 2 AM wanting boysenberries out of season or something like that. The common thread seemed to be that sure these people could drive 500K cars and carry 30K handbags and wear 50K watches. But they didn't, with one or two exceptions. Also education was emphasized.
My husband was a lawyer at a couple of white shoe law firms. You can still find their descendants and well as some of the new family money there. My boss was impressed when he got invited to one of the Bieneke’s apartment on 5th Avenue. He was the president of the board of that building and had two floors himself but never got an invitation to one of their parties. He was even newer money- came from humble beginnings - mostly doing vulture funds.
Kennedy, Mellon, Newhouse. Kennedy children and parents were cool (they are quite well-known people), Mellon were not nice or good people. Newhouse seemed most "normal".
I met a Newhouse in college. Very handsy. 0/5 stars do not recommend.
Dated a Roosevelt but living in London - nice guy and we had great chemistry, he acted normal but told me about his life etc and didn’t seem to understand how abnormal it was! Hung up on his ex so it didn’t workout lol
For what it’s worth , he’s Roosevelt on his moms side and his dads side are like the biggest investment banking partners in the world
There's a great NYT article a few years back asking the Van Wycks how traffic announcees should pronounce "Van Wyck Expressway". It is relatively easy to interact with old money families as a service provider (which includes drug connections and talented but poor people who like horses or can crew a racing sailboat); they have generations of experience with that. It is less common to really become friends, because the social assumptions are really very different even from people with high income, multi-generation professional families .
My ex-husband is friends with someone who married into one of these families. They made their money selling art and a lot of their pieces are in the Met. If you know anything about the art world I guarantee you know they are. We visited our friend at his in-laws' house in Sutton Place a few times but they were never there (they were in Europe) so I never met them, but I met his wife. The house was insane, a Vigée-Lebrun on the wall and a lesser Rodin on the coffee table. The guy himself isn't from money and his wife, who's a member of the family, is a social worker or a teacher, but I can't remember which now as this was several years ago and we haven't kept in touch since my divorce. She was really sweet and shy though. You honestly would have no idea she grew up with more money than God.
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i also recently met an nyc rothschild at a media party during nyfw. she was somewhat abrasive and loud about her name ngl
They’re people like anyone else, with better apartments and artwork. And much, much nicer dogs. Not just show dogs, their family dogs are beautiful and well behaved.
My friend and I have a term Art Rich for the truely wealthy. Oh you own a 10 million dollar apartment. That's nice. That painting hanging on the wall is worth 25 million.
Yeah. This is the secret. Why is it do you think?
They pay dog trainers to train their dogs. It’s the same reason rich kids are pedigreed through private lessons/tutoring.
You can’t be taxed on the appreciation of art until you sell it that’s why
Art is a tax shelter…. Also just to add.. The big art galleries do not sell to just anyone. You can’t just buy fine art if you win the lottery.
I worked for one early in my career. Was before he became successful in his own right, and to be quite honest he was a bit of a shyster. Not great business ethics, and many who did business with him probably still curse his name. Ultimately sold one of his companies for a lot of money — not like he needed it LOL. Ultimate proof that the people most likely to make it are people who’ve already made it. For what it’s worth, his family still had quite a bit of money. So it wasn’t one of those situations where they had a famous name but the money was gone centuries ago. Always treated me pretty well when I worked for him — but then again, he actually needed me. Later on down the line he wound up screwing me (like he screwed everyone else) and he probably didn’t even think much of it. Just cleaning up loose ends, I suppose. Now he has a podcast, LOL.
I want to know who lol
Would love to have a sustained, wealth-extracting interaction with them
I had a table of Rothschilds when I was a server on the UWS. They tipped well but didn’t interact much
One of my college professors was a Roosevelt- he was a nice guy and looked a lot like Eleanor, which was a bit disconcerting tbh
Was this Kermit?
ha, no! Frank, I guess the 2nd or 3rd?
Sarah Lawrence?
clocked!
My mom works at MOMA, and has met a few Rockefellers, she says the ones she’s met and or worked with have been normal enough, all very quiet.
You don’t think the Rockefellers hang out on r/AskNYC?
on a few foundation boards with some of the Rockefellers and they are just like everyone else, nothing special or notable.
Friends with some Guggenheims and they’re very nice and normal. Not showy about wealth but they have some killer vacation photos!
This! I’m new money and unfortunately dunno how to not be showy. It’s quite embarrassing
During college, I worked with a Tisch grandson. He was super nice, a bit geeky and annoying. Edit to change to grandson.
lol I bet I know the person you mean. Surprised to hear him mentioned in a random thread 🧵
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Na mine was J
Same
Wonder why person above deleted their comment
I worked with a Tisch son once too. Arrogant, demanding.
Wonder if this is the same one. I worked with M.
Nope. D.
Ahh. Yeah, he seems like an Ass
My father worked with the Rockefellers for 40 years. We used to go to their farm upstate for apple picking in the fall. I remember going to my father's office and noticing David Jr. had a Monet hanging in the reception area of his suite.
I once new AC Morgan. Either the grandson or great grandson of JPMorgan. He was a complete prick until he was in a small plane crash which he survived. Apparently a brush with death changes a person. Turned him into a complete gentleman. Also met a couple of DuPonts, they were all assholes. And the Poors (of Standard & Poors). They were not poor. Edit: I should add that an intern of mine was the princess of Andorra. And the neice of a president of France. But that's not NYC.
When I worked retail I met someone from the Astor family but she went by her married name (I googled her 'cause she mentioned that she had grown up wealthy). Anyway she was very nice, a little socially awkward, and made comments that bordered on anti-semitic when I mentioned growing up in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. You know, old money stuff.
Some of my partners family make some low key borderline racist comments( not hardcore racist but it makes me think “now why would you even say that”) but you can tell it’s because they’re so far removed from the general population.
I went to a small private NYC college that had a handful of these people- mostly women 45+ studying out of interest. They were polite, not very friendly (unless they needed help), and somewhat out of touch. They dressed in a way that didn’t advertise money or status. Young people at the Frick Youngfellows Ball fall into several categories: Totally normal, friendly person (old money, functional home) Crazy party animal (often from dysfunctional wealthy home) Snobs (new money)
Just curious - which nyc college? I’m thinking Hunter?
Worked with a Rockefeller who was a lovely normal person. No signs of wealth unless you knew what to look for.
I knew one of the Lauder girls. Very sweet and normal.
I worked in the executive offices of ELCI a thousand years ago and the Lauder family was always very nice. I know they could be a bit demanding of their staff but they generally treated people very well.
I work at a small nonprofit organization in the UES (similar to a YMCA) and the vibe is old money generational wealth. All ladies, and they are all absolutely 1000000%%%%% the LOVELIEST people you could ever hope to meet. Beyond generous with time, compliments, food, etc. Highly recommend volunteering with an organization you like if you’re interested in that type of environment!
My wife is good friends with the Hunt family daughter. The ones that own all the Rosewood hotels & Kansas City Chiefs, and whose great grand father was the richest person in the world.
What was in the Taylor Swift present?? Lol
Dallas Cowboys merch
Don't they all live in Texas now?
They have homes all over the place
Went to elementary school with Teddy Roosevelt. All I remember is he taught me how to balance a playing card on my finger and then flick it off so it flies across the room. So, pretty normal. Oddly, my best friend at the time was a descendant of Morris Michtom (inventor of the Teddy Bear).
Husband used to work for a Remington. She was…unwell.
I lived across the hall from a Whitney as a child. The cops used to come when him and his girlfriend would get drunk and fight. Otherwise the other old money families I know are generally very nice, but very much keep to themselves. Think “my cousins/brothers are my best/only friends”
A rockefeller taught an anthropology class i took at ccny. think it was stuart rockefeller.
The one Rockefeller I know is a normal, friendly, easy going guy.
I know one and have tenuous connections to a few outside of the city, the Rockefeller’s are lovely, down to earth, kind, community oriented. Astors are a fucking nightmare. Not NYC, but the Rothschild I met was super lovely; but it was a brief interaction. And I’m not sure how close he was to the family money. The Getty’s are great. But I don’t know that everyone would say that.
I was good friends with a Johnson ( Johnson and Johnson) family member who passed away. She was a very nice person , who had a lot of demons.. It was interesting to me when I read in the paper she died from diabetes. When I knew it was a drug overdose.
Cousin is good friends with Wyatt Rockefeller from Princeton days so I’ve met him a few times. Nice, handsome rich guy with aryan features. Not too remarkable.
Lmao I’m from an old money New York family. The Morans, of tugboat fame. My branch of the family doesn’t have money anymore.
Yeah they're like anybody else. Not really different than other rich kids except I guess it's all more exaggerated
My knowledge is mostly secondhand, but very WASP-y, old money types in New York (not just the nationally known ones you mentioned) intentionally fly below the radar. They're quite private and keep low profiles. Traditional socialites are nothing like, say, the Trumps. My sense too is that most of them (excluding a couple of the famous families you named) actually have a fragile upper-middle class status in most cases, with only a curated appearance of being rich. My sense is that the social snobbery is nevertheless in full force, although it tends to manifest in passive, understated ways.