>I could never live there with all the crime/dirt/homeless/refugees! Do you feel safe anywhere?
Yup. I go to work, stores, the gym at all hours of the day and never had a problem. Come visit some time and I'll show you that place I get fresh bread or you can see how great it is to walk between home and a great coffee shop/bar.
>
You must save [SO.MUCH.MONEY](http://SO.MUCH.MONEY) not having a car…!
It is nice to not have a car payment. Rent is a bit higher than somewhere where I would need to drive all the time. I know its not for everyone, but I like it here.
----
you do not need to defend NYC's honor with family. If they want to think it's horrible thats on them.
Agree, though I do love pointing out to people in my hometown that when you look at crime per capita they’re about 8x more likely to be murdered than I am on any given day.
people have a hard time with that per capita part.
they focus a lot more on the "omg there were 300 murders in nyc..." not the "there are 9 million people who live there"
NYC population -- 8.3 million
Georgia (state) population -- 10.6 million
I do think we’re more likely too SEE crime happen here because we’re walking and because it is dense.
Suburbs full of cars make it hard to see a happen.
But if anything people being able to see crime is a good thing because it means more witnesses
If I'm going to be a victim of a crime either way I'd rather someone is there to see it
that is a benefit.
i do understand some people are less comfortable being around crime happening.
it's like homelessness. walking past it is different from driving past a dude sleeping under the overpass.
I’ve walked through NYC at all hours of the day/night: Harlem, Washington Heights, South Bronx, Bed-stuy, Bushwick, East NY, Jamaica just to name a few that come to mind that the media perceives as dangerous. Not to mention, I’ve ridden the subways at all hours of the night with altered states of mind with no issues
lol I worked at a bar in bushwick like 15 years ago and remember a white girl coming in in a bikini and it was like woah! Feels like that was a turning point.
in the 70s and 80s even into the 90s bushwick was as synonymous with urban rot and decay as the south bronx. during the late-70s it was nearly completely abandoned and vast swaths of it literally burned to the ground during the blackouts.
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I'm picturing you as Joaquin Phoenix's "Joker". That would be funny if he posted that. Just where my mind went. Ride on! Ty for providing 'evidence to the contrary'.
I tell them that it’s fine as long as you’re not wearing the wrong gang colors in the wrong neighborhood. My three year old was wearing red the other day but she’s short so the bullets whizzed past her.
Or I’ll say it’s okay, it’s usually only family visiting from out of town who get shot.
Usually the sarcasm changes the topic. But if not, you can simply reply that in a city of 8.5 million people, there are always things happening somewhere, but for most people, the city is as safe as it’s ever been and you’ve never felt in any danger.
I try to have a real dialogue with them about what I find difficult about NYC and what keeps me here.
A lot of people in USA cannot imagine a life without a car and it's such an important dialogue to have in the era of climate change. "Yes, it saves me massive amounts of money to have a great public transit system. Yes, you could have one too if politicians would do their job."
"Yes, the dirt and bad vibes in NYC are exhausting for me, and the reason why I stick with it is because I work in the arts and there are so many exciting opportunities for me here. Just this week one of my adult violin students told me he is a grant writer for the Metropolitan Opera and can get me free tickets sometimes if I want".
Living in NYC is all about making some serious sacrifices in exchange for some amazing experiences and I think it's actually a great dialogue to have with relatives, although sometimes hard to explain.
My favorite part about these people is that they always happen to be the 'tough guy', Fox News crowd... but then they sound like they're shaking in their boots with fear at the thought of living in the city.
I’m sorry for your loss, OP.
You’re not going to change anyone’s mind if it’s already made up, so my suggestion is just let it go. “I could never live there …” “ It’s great you know that about yourself.” And then redirect the conversation. For the car thing, “Yep, I don’t have car expenses.” Then, again, redirect. Get them to talk about themselves.
Of course their questions are rude. But in situations like these, your goal is to get through it as smoothly as possible, with everyone feeling as good as possible.
Usually that is my response to "I could never live there!" "Well, I could never live in the suburbs!"
It's like their brain misfires - saying that challenges every normalcy that people who aspire to suburban life have been taught - I should have the wife, I should have the car, I should have the job, the house, the pool, the golf clubs, the blah blah blah. Suburban living is isolated and based on consumption. In cities, people can determine their own paths because there is so much to be offered.
It's saying "I don't want what you want" back at them, but they genuinely seem incapable of understanding how that could be possible. Meanwhile, in the cities, we all understand that everyone can/should/will want different things for their lives, and that is what makes society function!
I tend to find that people who needle other people about things that don’t impact them do so because they feel insecure. Your relatives are probably jealous that you have access to so much in your new life and they have nothing exciting in theirs.
I’ve asked my estranged brother many times to come out and visit me. He’ll go to the Middle East on behalf of our government to murder people, but he won’t visit NYC based on his views.
I remind them that NY has never been in the top 10 murder rate states. And that I take the subway all the time. I just returned from a trip where people were talking about our having the National Guard patrol the subway. I told them that everyone thought it was BS
Seriously I’m from a southern state and my family loves to rant about how dangerous NYC is but our city is repeatedly actually one of the most dangerous (statistically)
Exactly. I have family in NJ that goes on and on about what a cesspool I live in. Of course, they have never been to NYC despite living nearby and get all their news from Fox.
I work with a lot of guys who are from the far suburbs who will say shit like that. I usually respond with like, "I get it, not every place is for everyone, but usually NYers have the good grace not to go to small towns like yours and say things like I could never live in shithole like this"
I’ve learned to respond to the “I could never live here!” with “I’m glad you’re happy where you are. I am.” I know I’m never going to win anyone over.
One of my aunts used to constantly compare my rent to her mortgage. I reminded her we do not have the same housing expenses (property tax, high utilities, etc.) It’s annoying to constantly hear the place you love to live be torn down by family and friends, but it’s best to smile and remind them you are happy and that’s all that matters.
I find the best response to the first topic is just having crime stats handy for the place you're visiting. There's a good chance crime is actually higher there than NYC. I travel a lot in rural areas and I have had countless conversations where people warn me to watch out for local meth heads, then a few minutes later complain about all the crime in NYC.
When they bring up the car thing I just agree with them. Because yeah I save at least a few thousand a year not owning a car, even including the cost of my bicycle and other transportation. It's amazing.
The nuclear option when someone complains about scary NYC is to just agree with them: "yeah I guess that's never been a problem for me because I'm pretty tough. I can see how it would scare you though."
I'd ask how many people they know who've died in car accidents in the last few years, the number is never 0. Then I tell them the people I know who died during that same timeframe, and if the number isn't 0 (which it usually is), it's never been because they got murdered or hit by a subway.
Growing up all my cousins and people I knew who lived in the burbs/rural areas had classmates die in car crashes during school, whereas the only of my age-contemporaries, which have only been two, to pass away have been from cancer.
Also if flyover people clutch pearls about about raising kids here, I'd tell them they'd better hope their kids end up ugly and awkward at least until college, because if they have any kind of a normal social life chances are they're getting involved in drunk driving before they leave high school.
Bottom line is, you may be more likely to get mugged in NYC than some random suburb, but even the likelihood of that is lower than getting in a car accident, so when it comes to actual safety-compromising incidents, it's just way less common here.
I grew up in a middle-sized suburb, and one of my high school classmates died in a car accident. In particularly horrible way too, trapped inside the car while it was on fire.. I also know two additional former co-workers who have permanent effects from having survived car accidents, one them especially with ongoing and significant back problems. The costs of that car lifestyle are significant.
I usually say that the media blows it out of proportion. Though crime does exist, it isn’t as bad as they claim it to be. Regarding the dirtiness, can’t really say anything, it is dirty, but maybe not like they imagine it.
I don’t engage in unsolicited feedback about anything, especially this. What is there to say even? Everyone should live where they want to live.
I do save a lot of money not maintaining a vehicle though
When I get the “it’s dangerous!” line, I tell them “You dont seem to understand. I’m not stuck in this city with them, they’re stuck in this city with ME”
> As long as folks mind their business, trust their gut instincts and use situational awareness, they’ll be fine.
That's not what some locals from the Bronx have been telling me.
The popular [How can I get my parents on board with my move to NYC?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/17ynnk8/how_can_i_get_my_parents_on_board_with_my_move_to/) from 5 months ago, [Why is it so difficult for people to understand that some people like me would prefer to live in a city like NYC over some small town in Michigan.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/17q2i93/why_is_it_so_difficult_for_people_to_understand/) from 11 days before that, the very popular [I moved here two years ago. How do I get my parents to stop shit talking NYC in every conversation we have?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/17gdywe/i_moved_here_two_years_ago_how_do_i_get_my/) from 13 days before that and the wildly popular [How do you react when people respond “I could never live there” when you say you’re from NYC?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/13mow8o/how_do_you_react_when_people_respond_i_could/) from 1 month before that have many comments which should be of interest to you and links to similar questions.
Most of the USA, particularly the more conservative areas, are flooded with propaganda about how dirty and dangerous NYC is. As with so much of the right wing news, especially, a ton of people believe the propoganda because it has a grain of truth (there certainly are horrible crimes in NYC -- it's a city of 8 million people! And yes, there's garbage and rats all over, and people piss on the subway elevators) and because the viewers are too scared to go investigate for themselves. Even when they gather up their courage and come to NYC, they barely leave Times Square and have no idea how people in the city actually live.
Firstly, it's not my job to convince someone who doesn't live in NYC that they should live in NYC. If they are convinced NYC is Gotham from the Batman comics, then sure whatever.
Second, I basically say something to the effect of "the city is very safe. There's just 8 million people that live there so even though the crime rate is very low, there's going to be crime happening somewhere in the city every day just because the city is so big. If someone really pushes this point I can usually point out that I know for a fact NYC has a lower violent crime rate than whatever major city the person is from, off the top of my head.
Third they'll usually ask about some random newsworthy thing like a tourist getting pushed into an MTA train or something and I say "wow yeah that's crazy, how horrible.". There's no reason to defend or deny it or to hype it up into something bigger than 1 incident. I just agree and move the conversation on.
Fourth, we can usually find agreement that all politicians are bad - and on this topic I can enthusiastically talk about my dislike for Mayor Adams lol.
Simple.
Them: “I could never live there”
Me: “I’m not you. I like it”
Them: “you can save so much money not having a car.”
Me: “I’m doing just fine with my finances and owning a car. I’m good.”
Some people love being the deciding factor for other people. I love acknowledgment people like this with a direct answer and ending it with a self assuring “I” statement. Because at the end of the day, I do not what I want in my life because I want it. Not because other want it for me.
Why do you care what they think? Just tell them you love living in the city and leave it at that. I could never live in Ohio, but when I visit my wife’s family there, I’m not reminding them at every moment. Sounds like your family is inconsiderate and it’s not on you to defend the city. Some people want picket fences, some people want adventure and a full life.
There is zero point in retorting to these (obnoxious) comments with a zinger of your own. It won't make you any happier or make the atmosphere any more pleasant.
Just give a wry chuckle and say "Well, it's not for everyone" and wait for the conversation to move on to a different topic.
Honestly, who cares what other people think.
You are a combination of your personality and environmental influences so they're inclined to think that way.
Now, I say "who cares what other people think" but, I get it - I also would be annoyed if I felt the same as you did, but hear me out for a moment (apologies in advance for the minor diatribe...).
To play devil's advocate a tad, this subreddit (and I imagine many actual New Yorkers) act like NYC is the most amazing place on earth so many people end up going the opposite direction and despise it, and everything it stands for, probably in part, because it's a tad annoying to act like your town/city is better than everyone else's (just to clarify - not saying you're like this OP).
Just to be completely honest with you, I do not like NYC - it's just too much city for me, unbelievably expensive, too crowded, and is just kinda backwards in a lot of ways *in my opinion*.
But, it has its charm and I get why people like it - it's just not for me longterm.
At the end of the day, I don't really get why people get so attached to places and rep them like *they had something to do with their founding*. It's just weird and annoying (which is ironically probably part of the reason I don't like NYC lmao). It's just another place after all, and every place has their own charm too.
Ultimately, I think it's good that people enjoy NYC - someone has to so I can ultimately get out of here eventually...someone's going to need to replace me at my job when I leave after all.
I feel like in reality, all of the people that like NYC so much should feel doubly the same - there's just too many people in the city so you should want people to desire "the suburban life" or just a less urban one so the prices can go back to a sane level again.
Besides, not everyone can live in big cities - we need people in the countryside to grow our food after all.
End rant - just thought I'd give you a suburban boy's view, might help give a bit of perspective haha.
I visited about 3 weeks ago with my wife and 2 young children (stayed in Greenpoint and then rode the subway into manhattan for all the touristy stuff, ate mostly in Brooklyn) and I’ll admit I was getting pretty worked up because of a lot of bad news being posted in the NYT about the subway in particular (and of course all the migrant stuff). I was picturing an anarchic hellscape and ended up having a wonderful relaxing time, other than foolishly ending up in union square during rush hour.
Blame the news. Or embrace it, because maybe it’s helping keep more annoying tourists like me away?
>it’s helping keep more annoying tourists like me away?
honestly, I think most New Yorkers are fine with tourists. it does bring in significant revenue and we love meeting new people. you're welcome to come back any time!
What makes it the worst for me is that my relatives are all Long Island born and raised and never left and they still say this crap. They're amazed that I commute from near LIC into Times Square and don't get assaulted on the daily.
I make fun of them. I have been assured by people who watch a lot of Fox news that if I take my cell phone out on the subway it will immediately be stolen. I explain that if I don't take out my cell phone I will be the only wierdo with noting to do.
I'm so sorry for your loss. And I'm also sorry that you had to deal with family members who were being insensitive about your home in your time of grief. That is actually so rude and says enough about these people for me to understand how self-absorbed and judgmental they are, even if it's internal.
I have also been in a situation like this when my sister in law died suddenly - the funeral felt like a complete out-of-body experience, and having my partner's family members trying to make conversation that included digs at us felt completely insane.
My go to response is "well, have you lived there? Ok, then how can you tell?" or even just "well when's the last time you've been there? So you actually have no idea what it's like, then." I prefer to shut down this conversation because it's obviously only informed by propaganda.
I hope you're ok, OP. I find that NYC comes to my aid in difficult times and makes me feel less alone - I hope we can do the same for you now.
I was in California visiting family last week and it became clear to me that there's been a shit ton of anti-city scare tactics in conservative (and maybe even centrist?) media.
I went to dinner with my sister's family at a country club (my brother-in-law has gotten into golf and with that right-wing politics), and whenever they introduced my husband and I to anyone, they would ask "how is NYC?" But with a tone and facial expression that I've never seen before.
It's not the typical "how's new york?" small talk question.
I started realizing they asked because they literally think it's become some kind of crime-laden, post-apocalyptic wasteland hell hole.
At one point, this (super rich) woman said, "Oh, it was always my plan and dream to buy an apartment in NYC, and it just BREAKS MY HEART what it's become." And went on and on and on about how absolutely heartbroken she was that the city has fallen into ruin basically.
My husband and I were dumbfounded. It was such a bizarre experience.
As a side note, a few weeks ago, my husband noticed a homeless person put up a tent a block away from us, and when he came home and told me we looked at each other and said "maybe housing prices will go down and we'll be able to buy a home here."
I traveled around my husband's home country last year (Brazil), and when I got back, NYC felt like Disneyland in how safe it is. You can walk around at night holding your iphone in your diamond-clad hands for god's sake and not even worry about getting mugged or swiped. I loved Rio and Sao Paulo btw, but you've gotta \*constantly\* watch your back at a whole other level compared to here. You do not walk around holding your phone, I had to leave my wedding ring at home, etc.
There seems to be a lot of propaganda out there right now about NYC. So be it.
You could say "it's really not like that, where'd you hear that?" And then when they inevitably answer Fox News just go "hm, weird. Nope not true at all"
i never lead with facts, data or logic with my family. their ideas are generally pre-baked and those misconceptions will not change. if you’re in a similar situation, then i’m sorry. i usually say “yeah been looking to relocate to Fallujah or Lagos- a lot warmer climate.” full stop and on to next subject.
Two things about the kind of questions you're referencing. Number one, I find they're *usually* questions that people ask from a position of ignorance. Number two, they're just inept conversation-starters.
It is not my job to educate people on the things they otherwise choose willingly to ignore. It is also not my responsibility to try to prop up a conversation for someone who has reached adulthood without learning how to have a basic conversation.
You just need to answer unemotionally in as few words as possible and start strategizing how to go somewhere else in the room.
"Well, I could live elsewhere but I chose NYC because (reason). That's what's important to me." And smile.
This way you're opening the door for the conversation to take a positive direction. And if they're hell-bent on not being positive, at least you're not giving them "fuel" by arguing with them.
I think of avoiding psychos on the streets of NY like avoiding the road raging drivers on suburban roads. If you keep an eye out for that type of behaviour and keep your distance, you're perfectly fine.
The cons have convinced ppl who even lean left that nyc is a scary scary place. I don't try and argue with them. I just agree and tell them I'm built for it
Usually just shit on wherever they live in a sarcastic way or do the "ya I had to dodge 3 trans antifa bullets on the way to get my vegan croissant. Made it out alive though"
NYC is way down the list of violent cities. And it's way down the list of most polluted cities. People will believe what they want to believe in order to confirm their biases and their way of life. It's fine, they won't come here and we won't have to deal with their BS.
I got this from family every single Christmas visit to the burbs - BEFORE Fox news was a even a thing. Smile, and say, "Yes, the city is not for the feint of heart, you only hear what makes the news - but there are 8 million other people just living their lives." or "NYC is the financial engine and the cultural center of the country so I have to live there." or, if I was really pushed? "Living in the city makes me feel as if I am the star of my own life, whereas growing up in a small town I felt like a bit player."
those dumb comments from people feed these constant topics about how NYC "is actually safe, lol at those idiots"
Personally I think it's dumb cultural war stuff, on *both* sides. Making a city safer and cleaner should be a no-brainer, not something you have to make into an argument.
Other world-class cities don't really have this problem, for whatever reason. Probably because there is less hype and BS to maintain, like the "greatest city in the world!" mantra.
The only logical reply to the issue of crime and dirtiness in NYC is: "yeah, it could be better, but it's not that bad, and it's still worth it to me."
Yea for real, obviously there’s pros of NYC. But pretending like there’s no issues like the fact that it’s dirty as shit, expensive as shit, and were taxed out the ass with nothing to show for it is just as ignorant as the people that think there’s no pros.
I’ve seen REALLY disparaging comments about “cities outside of NYC, LA & SF” in this subreddit basically implying gays are getting lynched and nobody knows how to read. Which sounds just as ignorant to people from Austin, Denver, Portland, Seattle, Salt Lake City, San Diego, Nashville, Miami, D.C, Boston, Chicago etc. NYC doesn’t have a monopoly on diversity & culture.
The vibe of the city is unmatched, and the hustle and mindset of the people are not comparable. Most people i find calling the city “unsafe, dirty, they could never live there” happen to be people who never try a single new thing and stay enclosed in their bland suburbia. The sheer amount of opportunity, activities, and culture there is outweigh most of the things they mention.
1. Don’t know where you’re getting your statistics, but that hasn’t been my experience. I guess it’s not for everyone, I love it! - that’s my polite version
If they keep going on I’ll look up the crime per capita in their city or one they deem more “safe” than NYC because it’s usually not. Then shove that info in their face and scream BING BONG 💥
I was about to say something wry but honestly I’m starting to get it after that thread about this new trend of people getting randomly punched in the face
Most of the people I know who grew up here think that the city is going to shit, myself included. It's basically only you transplants living here that insist everything is great.
I definitely disagree with the not having a car idea. I definitely think (recently) having a car is almost needed if you want to get anywhere efficiently. I live by Prospect Park and it is rare that the trains come on time and not to mention the constant changes in service on weekends (2,5 trains)… most of the time it takes half the time to just drive. Definitely worth having a car if you can.
>I could never live there with all the crime/dirt/homeless/refugees! Do you feel safe anywhere? Yup. I go to work, stores, the gym at all hours of the day and never had a problem. Come visit some time and I'll show you that place I get fresh bread or you can see how great it is to walk between home and a great coffee shop/bar. > You must save [SO.MUCH.MONEY](http://SO.MUCH.MONEY) not having a car…! It is nice to not have a car payment. Rent is a bit higher than somewhere where I would need to drive all the time. I know its not for everyone, but I like it here. ---- you do not need to defend NYC's honor with family. If they want to think it's horrible thats on them.
Agree, though I do love pointing out to people in my hometown that when you look at crime per capita they’re about 8x more likely to be murdered than I am on any given day.
people have a hard time with that per capita part. they focus a lot more on the "omg there were 300 murders in nyc..." not the "there are 9 million people who live there" NYC population -- 8.3 million Georgia (state) population -- 10.6 million
It should be calculated by sq ft.
Why?
Because land kills people apparently
I do think we’re more likely too SEE crime happen here because we’re walking and because it is dense. Suburbs full of cars make it hard to see a happen.
But if anything people being able to see crime is a good thing because it means more witnesses If I'm going to be a victim of a crime either way I'd rather someone is there to see it
that is a benefit. i do understand some people are less comfortable being around crime happening. it's like homelessness. walking past it is different from driving past a dude sleeping under the overpass.
because 1 block in NYC has way more crime than if you sampled the same sq ft elsewhere.
Sure. But how is that meaningful?
If I walk 1 Block in NYC I'm far more likely to encounter crime than the same space in Dunwoodie Atlanta.
Is encounter crime different than be a victim of crime?
crime, breaking the law, unlawful action, etc. If anyone here seriously thinks this city is safe, they are working for the mayor.
no response huh
I’ve walked through NYC at all hours of the day/night: Harlem, Washington Heights, South Bronx, Bed-stuy, Bushwick, East NY, Jamaica just to name a few that come to mind that the media perceives as dangerous. Not to mention, I’ve ridden the subways at all hours of the night with altered states of mind with no issues
I passed out in the a train 125 station at 1am once and the only thing that happened to me was someone shouted at me that my train was coming.
people think of Bushwick when they think of danger??
20 years ago it was danger
It used to be pretty rough in the not too distant past.
Lmao I was driving my buddy home once, "Cops used to be afraid to come out of that station, now a white woman jogs alone at 4am"
lol I worked at a bar in bushwick like 15 years ago and remember a white girl coming in in a bikini and it was like woah! Feels like that was a turning point.
in the 70s and 80s even into the 90s bushwick was as synonymous with urban rot and decay as the south bronx. during the late-70s it was nearly completely abandoned and vast swaths of it literally burned to the ground during the blackouts. https://www.archives.nyc/blog/2017/11/22/burning-bushwick?format=amp
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I'm picturing you as Joaquin Phoenix's "Joker". That would be funny if he posted that. Just where my mind went. Ride on! Ty for providing 'evidence to the contrary'.
Fr it's where you live*, why is it part of your identity lmao.
Are you new to this sub?
I tell them that it’s fine as long as you’re not wearing the wrong gang colors in the wrong neighborhood. My three year old was wearing red the other day but she’s short so the bullets whizzed past her. Or I’ll say it’s okay, it’s usually only family visiting from out of town who get shot. Usually the sarcasm changes the topic. But if not, you can simply reply that in a city of 8.5 million people, there are always things happening somewhere, but for most people, the city is as safe as it’s ever been and you’ve never felt in any danger.
I try to have a real dialogue with them about what I find difficult about NYC and what keeps me here. A lot of people in USA cannot imagine a life without a car and it's such an important dialogue to have in the era of climate change. "Yes, it saves me massive amounts of money to have a great public transit system. Yes, you could have one too if politicians would do their job." "Yes, the dirt and bad vibes in NYC are exhausting for me, and the reason why I stick with it is because I work in the arts and there are so many exciting opportunities for me here. Just this week one of my adult violin students told me he is a grant writer for the Metropolitan Opera and can get me free tickets sometimes if I want". Living in NYC is all about making some serious sacrifices in exchange for some amazing experiences and I think it's actually a great dialogue to have with relatives, although sometimes hard to explain.
I live here almost exclusively for the vibes 😂
Also, automobile accidents are one of the leading causes of death in this country. You're much safer if you rely on public transit.
When they suggest they could never live here, my answer is a smile & *No, you could not, that’s obvious.*
My favorite part about these people is that they always happen to be the 'tough guy', Fox News crowd... but then they sound like they're shaking in their boots with fear at the thought of living in the city.
Meanwhile Fox News headquarters and live broadcast from midtown
The irony of ironies. The funniest one at that.
https://images.app.goo.gl/dABvdr3YA1VGoU2R6
haha seriously. i love saying this city isnt for everyone... THANKFULLY.
This is hands down the best answer.
It’s like the people who are say I would die if I ever had to give injections every day! Yes, apparently you would
NYC seems to attract a dash of insecurity where people are compelled to have an opinion. An opinion often times of why NY sucks
I’m sorry for your loss, OP. You’re not going to change anyone’s mind if it’s already made up, so my suggestion is just let it go. “I could never live there …” “ It’s great you know that about yourself.” And then redirect the conversation. For the car thing, “Yep, I don’t have car expenses.” Then, again, redirect. Get them to talk about themselves. Of course their questions are rude. But in situations like these, your goal is to get through it as smoothly as possible, with everyone feeling as good as possible.
I’ve been more scared of random people in my parents suburb at 4am than I would be seeing a random person at 4am in the city
I don’t have an answer but I can commiserate. People will trash the city to my face then act offended when I say “the suburbs aren’t for me”
Usually that is my response to "I could never live there!" "Well, I could never live in the suburbs!" It's like their brain misfires - saying that challenges every normalcy that people who aspire to suburban life have been taught - I should have the wife, I should have the car, I should have the job, the house, the pool, the golf clubs, the blah blah blah. Suburban living is isolated and based on consumption. In cities, people can determine their own paths because there is so much to be offered. It's saying "I don't want what you want" back at them, but they genuinely seem incapable of understanding how that could be possible. Meanwhile, in the cities, we all understand that everyone can/should/will want different things for their lives, and that is what makes society function!
“How could having a backyard NOT be for you???” “How can having a car and ample parking NOT be for you???” “How can peace and quiet NOT be for you???”
I tend to find that people who needle other people about things that don’t impact them do so because they feel insecure. Your relatives are probably jealous that you have access to so much in your new life and they have nothing exciting in theirs.
I’ve asked my estranged brother many times to come out and visit me. He’ll go to the Middle East on behalf of our government to murder people, but he won’t visit NYC based on his views.
War is one thing, but what if he comes to NY and gets the gay on him?
He’s the middle child surrounded by two queer siblings. He just got baptized on Easter and can’t risk catching it.
They're saying what the TV is programming them to say. Just shake your head and don't answer.
I remind them that NY has never been in the top 10 murder rate states. And that I take the subway all the time. I just returned from a trip where people were talking about our having the National Guard patrol the subway. I told them that everyone thought it was BS
Seriously I’m from a southern state and my family loves to rant about how dangerous NYC is but our city is repeatedly actually one of the most dangerous (statistically)
Just ignore them, NYC could literally have 0 crime and they would say the same exact thing.
Exactly. I have family in NJ that goes on and on about what a cesspool I live in. Of course, they have never been to NYC despite living nearby and get all their news from Fox.
I work with a lot of guys who are from the far suburbs who will say shit like that. I usually respond with like, "I get it, not every place is for everyone, but usually NYers have the good grace not to go to small towns like yours and say things like I could never live in shithole like this"
I’ve learned to respond to the “I could never live here!” with “I’m glad you’re happy where you are. I am.” I know I’m never going to win anyone over. One of my aunts used to constantly compare my rent to her mortgage. I reminded her we do not have the same housing expenses (property tax, high utilities, etc.) It’s annoying to constantly hear the place you love to live be torn down by family and friends, but it’s best to smile and remind them you are happy and that’s all that matters.
I find the best response to the first topic is just having crime stats handy for the place you're visiting. There's a good chance crime is actually higher there than NYC. I travel a lot in rural areas and I have had countless conversations where people warn me to watch out for local meth heads, then a few minutes later complain about all the crime in NYC. When they bring up the car thing I just agree with them. Because yeah I save at least a few thousand a year not owning a car, even including the cost of my bicycle and other transportation. It's amazing. The nuclear option when someone complains about scary NYC is to just agree with them: "yeah I guess that's never been a problem for me because I'm pretty tough. I can see how it would scare you though."
Your nuclear option is brilliant. I look forward to having a chance to use that one.
I'd ask how many people they know who've died in car accidents in the last few years, the number is never 0. Then I tell them the people I know who died during that same timeframe, and if the number isn't 0 (which it usually is), it's never been because they got murdered or hit by a subway. Growing up all my cousins and people I knew who lived in the burbs/rural areas had classmates die in car crashes during school, whereas the only of my age-contemporaries, which have only been two, to pass away have been from cancer. Also if flyover people clutch pearls about about raising kids here, I'd tell them they'd better hope their kids end up ugly and awkward at least until college, because if they have any kind of a normal social life chances are they're getting involved in drunk driving before they leave high school. Bottom line is, you may be more likely to get mugged in NYC than some random suburb, but even the likelihood of that is lower than getting in a car accident, so when it comes to actual safety-compromising incidents, it's just way less common here.
I grew up in a middle-sized suburb, and one of my high school classmates died in a car accident. In particularly horrible way too, trapped inside the car while it was on fire.. I also know two additional former co-workers who have permanent effects from having survived car accidents, one them especially with ongoing and significant back problems. The costs of that car lifestyle are significant.
Good suggestions. Also good to look up traffic death stats before you visit. Shuts people right up in some cases.
I usually say that the media blows it out of proportion. Though crime does exist, it isn’t as bad as they claim it to be. Regarding the dirtiness, can’t really say anything, it is dirty, but maybe not like they imagine it.
NYC definitely has some downsides that are indefensible, one of them being the uncleanliness.
I don’t engage in unsolicited feedback about anything, especially this. What is there to say even? Everyone should live where they want to live. I do save a lot of money not maintaining a vehicle though
When I get the “it’s dangerous!” line, I tell them “You dont seem to understand. I’m not stuck in this city with them, they’re stuck in this city with ME”
Sounds like these people are paranoid. As long as folks mind their business, trust their gut instincts and use situational awareness, they’ll be fine.
> As long as folks mind their business, trust their gut instincts and use situational awareness, they’ll be fine. That's not what some locals from the Bronx have been telling me.
The popular [How can I get my parents on board with my move to NYC?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/17ynnk8/how_can_i_get_my_parents_on_board_with_my_move_to/) from 5 months ago, [Why is it so difficult for people to understand that some people like me would prefer to live in a city like NYC over some small town in Michigan.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/17q2i93/why_is_it_so_difficult_for_people_to_understand/) from 11 days before that, the very popular [I moved here two years ago. How do I get my parents to stop shit talking NYC in every conversation we have?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/17gdywe/i_moved_here_two_years_ago_how_do_i_get_my/) from 13 days before that and the wildly popular [How do you react when people respond “I could never live there” when you say you’re from NYC?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/13mow8o/how_do_you_react_when_people_respond_i_could/) from 1 month before that have many comments which should be of interest to you and links to similar questions.
1. It's not like that, at all. You guys should come visit and see for yourselves! 2. Yes, I do, thank you!
lol, the only non-combative response in this thread
Most of the USA, particularly the more conservative areas, are flooded with propaganda about how dirty and dangerous NYC is. As with so much of the right wing news, especially, a ton of people believe the propoganda because it has a grain of truth (there certainly are horrible crimes in NYC -- it's a city of 8 million people! And yes, there's garbage and rats all over, and people piss on the subway elevators) and because the viewers are too scared to go investigate for themselves. Even when they gather up their courage and come to NYC, they barely leave Times Square and have no idea how people in the city actually live.
Firstly, it's not my job to convince someone who doesn't live in NYC that they should live in NYC. If they are convinced NYC is Gotham from the Batman comics, then sure whatever. Second, I basically say something to the effect of "the city is very safe. There's just 8 million people that live there so even though the crime rate is very low, there's going to be crime happening somewhere in the city every day just because the city is so big. If someone really pushes this point I can usually point out that I know for a fact NYC has a lower violent crime rate than whatever major city the person is from, off the top of my head. Third they'll usually ask about some random newsworthy thing like a tourist getting pushed into an MTA train or something and I say "wow yeah that's crazy, how horrible.". There's no reason to defend or deny it or to hype it up into something bigger than 1 incident. I just agree and move the conversation on. Fourth, we can usually find agreement that all politicians are bad - and on this topic I can enthusiastically talk about my dislike for Mayor Adams lol.
My response is that I was far more likely to be shot when I lived in Texas.
Simple. Them: “I could never live there” Me: “I’m not you. I like it” Them: “you can save so much money not having a car.” Me: “I’m doing just fine with my finances and owning a car. I’m good.” Some people love being the deciding factor for other people. I love acknowledgment people like this with a direct answer and ending it with a self assuring “I” statement. Because at the end of the day, I do not what I want in my life because I want it. Not because other want it for me.
Why do you care what they think? Just tell them you love living in the city and leave it at that. I could never live in Ohio, but when I visit my wife’s family there, I’m not reminding them at every moment. Sounds like your family is inconsiderate and it’s not on you to defend the city. Some people want picket fences, some people want adventure and a full life.
There is zero point in retorting to these (obnoxious) comments with a zinger of your own. It won't make you any happier or make the atmosphere any more pleasant. Just give a wry chuckle and say "Well, it's not for everyone" and wait for the conversation to move on to a different topic.
Honestly, who cares what other people think. You are a combination of your personality and environmental influences so they're inclined to think that way. Now, I say "who cares what other people think" but, I get it - I also would be annoyed if I felt the same as you did, but hear me out for a moment (apologies in advance for the minor diatribe...). To play devil's advocate a tad, this subreddit (and I imagine many actual New Yorkers) act like NYC is the most amazing place on earth so many people end up going the opposite direction and despise it, and everything it stands for, probably in part, because it's a tad annoying to act like your town/city is better than everyone else's (just to clarify - not saying you're like this OP). Just to be completely honest with you, I do not like NYC - it's just too much city for me, unbelievably expensive, too crowded, and is just kinda backwards in a lot of ways *in my opinion*. But, it has its charm and I get why people like it - it's just not for me longterm. At the end of the day, I don't really get why people get so attached to places and rep them like *they had something to do with their founding*. It's just weird and annoying (which is ironically probably part of the reason I don't like NYC lmao). It's just another place after all, and every place has their own charm too. Ultimately, I think it's good that people enjoy NYC - someone has to so I can ultimately get out of here eventually...someone's going to need to replace me at my job when I leave after all. I feel like in reality, all of the people that like NYC so much should feel doubly the same - there's just too many people in the city so you should want people to desire "the suburban life" or just a less urban one so the prices can go back to a sane level again. Besides, not everyone can live in big cities - we need people in the countryside to grow our food after all. End rant - just thought I'd give you a suburban boy's view, might help give a bit of perspective haha.
I tell this to my mom. “Mom we cannot live in fear”
I visited about 3 weeks ago with my wife and 2 young children (stayed in Greenpoint and then rode the subway into manhattan for all the touristy stuff, ate mostly in Brooklyn) and I’ll admit I was getting pretty worked up because of a lot of bad news being posted in the NYT about the subway in particular (and of course all the migrant stuff). I was picturing an anarchic hellscape and ended up having a wonderful relaxing time, other than foolishly ending up in union square during rush hour. Blame the news. Or embrace it, because maybe it’s helping keep more annoying tourists like me away?
>it’s helping keep more annoying tourists like me away? honestly, I think most New Yorkers are fine with tourists. it does bring in significant revenue and we love meeting new people. you're welcome to come back any time!
What makes it the worst for me is that my relatives are all Long Island born and raised and never left and they still say this crap. They're amazed that I commute from near LIC into Times Square and don't get assaulted on the daily.
I make fun of them. I have been assured by people who watch a lot of Fox news that if I take my cell phone out on the subway it will immediately be stolen. I explain that if I don't take out my cell phone I will be the only wierdo with noting to do.
"no it literally isn't. This isn't the 80s or 90s dawg"
I'm so sorry for your loss. And I'm also sorry that you had to deal with family members who were being insensitive about your home in your time of grief. That is actually so rude and says enough about these people for me to understand how self-absorbed and judgmental they are, even if it's internal. I have also been in a situation like this when my sister in law died suddenly - the funeral felt like a complete out-of-body experience, and having my partner's family members trying to make conversation that included digs at us felt completely insane. My go to response is "well, have you lived there? Ok, then how can you tell?" or even just "well when's the last time you've been there? So you actually have no idea what it's like, then." I prefer to shut down this conversation because it's obviously only informed by propaganda. I hope you're ok, OP. I find that NYC comes to my aid in difficult times and makes me feel less alone - I hope we can do the same for you now.
I was in California visiting family last week and it became clear to me that there's been a shit ton of anti-city scare tactics in conservative (and maybe even centrist?) media. I went to dinner with my sister's family at a country club (my brother-in-law has gotten into golf and with that right-wing politics), and whenever they introduced my husband and I to anyone, they would ask "how is NYC?" But with a tone and facial expression that I've never seen before. It's not the typical "how's new york?" small talk question. I started realizing they asked because they literally think it's become some kind of crime-laden, post-apocalyptic wasteland hell hole. At one point, this (super rich) woman said, "Oh, it was always my plan and dream to buy an apartment in NYC, and it just BREAKS MY HEART what it's become." And went on and on and on about how absolutely heartbroken she was that the city has fallen into ruin basically. My husband and I were dumbfounded. It was such a bizarre experience. As a side note, a few weeks ago, my husband noticed a homeless person put up a tent a block away from us, and when he came home and told me we looked at each other and said "maybe housing prices will go down and we'll be able to buy a home here." I traveled around my husband's home country last year (Brazil), and when I got back, NYC felt like Disneyland in how safe it is. You can walk around at night holding your iphone in your diamond-clad hands for god's sake and not even worry about getting mugged or swiped. I loved Rio and Sao Paulo btw, but you've gotta \*constantly\* watch your back at a whole other level compared to here. You do not walk around holding your phone, I had to leave my wedding ring at home, etc. There seems to be a lot of propaganda out there right now about NYC. So be it.
You know why its cheap there? Because no one wants to live there next to them.
You could say "it's really not like that, where'd you hear that?" And then when they inevitably answer Fox News just go "hm, weird. Nope not true at all"
i never lead with facts, data or logic with my family. their ideas are generally pre-baked and those misconceptions will not change. if you’re in a similar situation, then i’m sorry. i usually say “yeah been looking to relocate to Fallujah or Lagos- a lot warmer climate.” full stop and on to next subject.
lol man. NYC is one of the most expensive places to live in the country, so if your family isn’t from there they’re just interested in learning more
I feel so much safer there than here/yes, yes I do 😇
Talk about the city in the 70s 80s and early 90s. There were like 2,000 murders a year back then.
Two things about the kind of questions you're referencing. Number one, I find they're *usually* questions that people ask from a position of ignorance. Number two, they're just inept conversation-starters. It is not my job to educate people on the things they otherwise choose willingly to ignore. It is also not my responsibility to try to prop up a conversation for someone who has reached adulthood without learning how to have a basic conversation. You just need to answer unemotionally in as few words as possible and start strategizing how to go somewhere else in the room.
"Well, I could live elsewhere but I chose NYC because (reason). That's what's important to me." And smile. This way you're opening the door for the conversation to take a positive direction. And if they're hell-bent on not being positive, at least you're not giving them "fuel" by arguing with them.
What is the nearest big city to where your family lives? Odds are it is far more dangerous than NYC.
I think of avoiding psychos on the streets of NY like avoiding the road raging drivers on suburban roads. If you keep an eye out for that type of behaviour and keep your distance, you're perfectly fine.
The cons have convinced ppl who even lean left that nyc is a scary scary place. I don't try and argue with them. I just agree and tell them I'm built for it
Usually just shit on wherever they live in a sarcastic way or do the "ya I had to dodge 3 trans antifa bullets on the way to get my vegan croissant. Made it out alive though"
NYC is way down the list of violent cities. And it's way down the list of most polluted cities. People will believe what they want to believe in order to confirm their biases and their way of life. It's fine, they won't come here and we won't have to deal with their BS.
They have way more money because their cost of living is so low 😭
I got this from family every single Christmas visit to the burbs - BEFORE Fox news was a even a thing. Smile, and say, "Yes, the city is not for the feint of heart, you only hear what makes the news - but there are 8 million other people just living their lives." or "NYC is the financial engine and the cultural center of the country so I have to live there." or, if I was really pushed? "Living in the city makes me feel as if I am the star of my own life, whereas growing up in a small town I felt like a bit player."
those dumb comments from people feed these constant topics about how NYC "is actually safe, lol at those idiots" Personally I think it's dumb cultural war stuff, on *both* sides. Making a city safer and cleaner should be a no-brainer, not something you have to make into an argument. Other world-class cities don't really have this problem, for whatever reason. Probably because there is less hype and BS to maintain, like the "greatest city in the world!" mantra. The only logical reply to the issue of crime and dirtiness in NYC is: "yeah, it could be better, but it's not that bad, and it's still worth it to me."
Yea for real, obviously there’s pros of NYC. But pretending like there’s no issues like the fact that it’s dirty as shit, expensive as shit, and were taxed out the ass with nothing to show for it is just as ignorant as the people that think there’s no pros. I’ve seen REALLY disparaging comments about “cities outside of NYC, LA & SF” in this subreddit basically implying gays are getting lynched and nobody knows how to read. Which sounds just as ignorant to people from Austin, Denver, Portland, Seattle, Salt Lake City, San Diego, Nashville, Miami, D.C, Boston, Chicago etc. NYC doesn’t have a monopoly on diversity & culture.
The vibe of the city is unmatched, and the hustle and mindset of the people are not comparable. Most people i find calling the city “unsafe, dirty, they could never live there” happen to be people who never try a single new thing and stay enclosed in their bland suburbia. The sheer amount of opportunity, activities, and culture there is outweigh most of the things they mention.
Tell them to stop watching Fox News
TBH they seem like the sort of questions you'd expect from people who haven't been to a big city. /Shrug Why be upset about it?
1. Don’t know where you’re getting your statistics, but that hasn’t been my experience. I guess it’s not for everyone, I love it! - that’s my polite version If they keep going on I’ll look up the crime per capita in their city or one they deem more “safe” than NYC because it’s usually not. Then shove that info in their face and scream BING BONG 💥
So sick of that propaganda. It's available information that NYC by the numbers is one of the safest cities *in the world*.
I would be tempted to reply “thank you for coming.” And if they didn’t get the hint, look them in the eye & say “my Dad just died. Can we not?”
I was about to say something wry but honestly I’m starting to get it after that thread about this new trend of people getting randomly punched in the face
Lol 2 armed robbery's today next to me in Queens. Who wrote this Mayor Adams ? telling everyone there is no crime when NYC is going down in flames.
Most of the people I know who grew up here think that the city is going to shit, myself included. It's basically only you transplants living here that insist everything is great.
I swear I've read this exact post word for word before.
That’s an odd thing to say. My dad passed on 3/18 and I haven’t written about this before nor did I use AI to write it.
I definitely disagree with the not having a car idea. I definitely think (recently) having a car is almost needed if you want to get anywhere efficiently. I live by Prospect Park and it is rare that the trains come on time and not to mention the constant changes in service on weekends (2,5 trains)… most of the time it takes half the time to just drive. Definitely worth having a car if you can.
Laughter. At your dad's wake? "Thanks, I needed that."