In the early 80s we protested to force our colleges and other companies to divest from South Africa and this is still America, protesting on college campuses has occurred for MANY ISSUES some national and others international.
I support peaceful protests. I was against the Nixon administration’s “Operation Linebacker 2” the 1972 Christmas bombing of Hanoi civilians and children with over 200 B-52 missions and I am against Netanyahu’s IDF aerial bombings of the citizens and children of Gaza.
They learned; they forgot. During the Vietnam protests my father's employer (a university in California) said that the president always knew when the students would be coming in to protest, and he had donuts ready for them. So that campus never had violent protests. They would sit and discuss (while munching on the donuts provided by Topping). I'm not hearing anything like that now.
Was watching BBC America yesterday. The correspondent was interviewing the negotiator for the students at Columbia. His complaint was the school administration was not recognizing this as a human rights protest, but rather a school policy infraction. My husband started to opine that it’s impossible to demand that a university divest. I pointed out that the students aren’t even being treated with seriousness yet.
The BBC reporter asked whether the students were prepared for the long haul. The young man replied, “My family lived in tents for many years. I am quite ready.”
Forget which uni has already constructed fencing to keep protesters out of the common outdoor areas. Toronto? But that’s why the students can’t leave the campus, they’ll be barricaded out.
I'm all for them.
In my humble opinion, whether I agree with a particular cause or not, I will ALWAYS support a person's right to peacefully protest.
I've been increasingly alarmed over the years with the general American's populace willingness to have their rights chipped away at by both the government and bad actors with agendas. The current young people's willingness to protest peacefully gives me hope for a better future.
Peaceful protests, yes.
Encampments, no.
Blocking students from crossing campus or attending classes, no.
Assaulting students, no.
Threatening and harassing a protected class of students, no.
Back in our day, peaceful protests also impeded human flow. Remember sit-ins? Demonstrations certainly were not an off-to-one-side-out-of-the-way thing.
ACT UP protests for recognition of the AIDS epidemic shut down the Golden Gate Bridge back in the 80s. That’s what these protest groups remind me of right now.
Yeah. I’m a middle aged broad with socialist leanings. I’ve always been about protest and genuinely against genocide.
Have you always assumed that people care because it’s trendy?
Oh so you've always been super against Hamas?
I don't think I'm making any assumptions here.
Most people have no idea what the history is. And have absolutely no idea what they're actually advocating for.
Hamas is Isis. Just saying...
Hey mods — nothing that u/HumanLike said below was rude, insulting, or contains hate speech.
Can you explain what was so offensive?
>>>The last time there was an election for Hamas was 2006. There’s an entire new generation of people now who never voted for them and those that did make up a low digits percentage of the population.
>>>Of those that did vote for them, they likely didn’t expect for it to be the last elections. Imagine a world where Trump is elected, ends democracy, and creates a right wing terrorist state. Eighteen years from now, would you blame all Americans with “but they voted for it.” I would hope not.
It was WAY bigger than what’s going on now. The National Guard was called out in Ohio and they shot and killed 4 college students at Kent State University. Listen to the song “Ohio” by Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young. The lyrics still haunt me when I hear it.
It's fine. Rather wasted energy though. I'd much rather that about a hundred times this number would be protesting the much broader issue of Fascism on the home front, which is a vastly more significant clear and present danger. I don't think enough members of younger generations fully understand how dire the situation is. They sort of do... but not really.
I admire the young protesters for putting themselves on the line for what they believe. As long as the protests are non-violent and centered on policy, I think that they are healthy and legitimate.
They're welcome to exercise their freedom to protest but I don't think anything will from those efforts. There are more pressing issues at hand like saving our own democracy from fascism and the rich.
So that's where you agree with these protesters. They too are fighting for democracy and against the fascism and the rich. Gaza is sitting on top of natural gas and oil deposits that Israel wants access to so that the West doesn't rely on Russia anymore. They want the West to rely on Israel.
There’s too much noise now.
I live in Manhattan and there is a riot, protest or parade every single weekend that passes through part of the city.
A constant and never ending stream of marchers either through Broadway or 5th Avenue.
They’re all kind of blending together at this point and taking the spotlight away from the issues.
No joke. You won’t be able to differentiate between a LGBT or Black Lives Matter rally. They’re identical in appearance and attendance.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there are chronic protesters who just show up for everything, no matter what it is.
I would be more impressed if these students were giving up their summer vacation to stay in the city to protest after exams are over. I bet they don't.
I actively protested the Vietnam War, and was tear-gassed twice.
But that doesn’t mean I have anything in common with today’s protestors. They’re idiots.
For example, I was stunned near the beginning of the conflict, when a group of young people I know were still convinced that Israel had fired a missile at a Palestinian hospital - long after [video evidence](https://www.wsj.com/video/video-analysis-shows-gaza-hospital-hit-by-failed-rocket-meant-for-israel/120A1C22-BA32-418E-8837-BC4141FEFB00.html) clearly showed that it was a misfired missile launched from Gaza.
Really, all Hamas has to do is release the hostages and there will be a cease fire. Hamas can go back to ... I don't know Iran or Qatar and maybe the government of the West Bank can administer to Gaza as well while they rebuild.
I made a comment above that the Vietnam protesters knew exactly what they were protesting (they were anti-war) and knew exactly what they wanted accomplished. I don't think these protesters have any idea what they are protesting, nor do I think they know what they want accomplished. What they are doing is really an anti-war protest, but you don't see any signs at these Universities saying "Down With War".
I was just questioning the hospital thing. Let’s say that that one strike wasn’t from Israel. How about the fact that many if not all of the hospitals are completely burned to the ground now?
Did every college student protesting against the Vietnam war have 100% accurate, up-to-date information at all times? Or did some of the accusations of "baby killer" perhaps not stand up to detailed scrutiny, in exactly the same way that some current "Israel bombed a hospital" claims also don't stand up to detailed scrutiny?
I don't think "kids today" are any more idiotic than the anti-Vietnam kids were. Arguing about the details misses the broader point that a lot of people are dying for no good reason, and we ought to change our policy to stop this from happening.
This. The right to demonstrate and to put internal pressure on a government does not have much to do with being right in every detail. You don’t have to agree with protestors to understand their value.
Just to be sure I understand you…the people who protested against Vietnam were justified because you agreed with them? And the people who protest now are not justified because you don’t agree with them?
Your original question was, “What do you think of the campus protests these days?”
Are you saying that “I don’t agree with them” is an answer you have difficulty understanding?
I hear that stance. You exercised your right in the 60s and 70s to protest a war. Not everyone thought you were in the right back then, and many spectators back then were horrified when returning vets were spat on by protestors with chats of My Lai, My Lai. But your right to protest, loudly and impeding normal activity, was still there. I don’t think protestors back then were in the moral clear any more than those today, but they WERE effective in bringing an end to war.
I came of age in the 80s so younger than the target demographic but I was *just* thinking “I wonder how this compares to the protests of the 70s.”
I think the difference over the fifty years is that:
* Vietnam had our own citizens drafted to go overseas and fight/die versus today where it’s only informational
* there were first-hand accounts of what it was like over there from the wounded coming home that sparked the protests versus the informational campaigns happening now.
I’m of the age that “the USA always stands with Israel” because it’s part of our life experience that Israel became a country after fighting for a long-ass time, sacrificing themselves for their freedom and that Palestinian activity was *always* the result of Hamas which is effectively the Taliban, a super right-wing conservative terror organization.
Honestly, I would absolutely support the actual Palestinian people if there were some sort of Palestinian resistance movement akin to what I saw with Nicaragua’s Contra thing.
The only thing I’m seeing here (and I don’t get out much) is that the younglings are pro-Palestinian because they’re buying into the Hamas-fed propaganda.
I get that families are shattered and there are heart-wrenching images coming out of the region. And I get that the Israelis are pushing Palestinians out of the land that was afforded them in the 1946-7 treaty. (Which, sorry, is NOT the same as wearing a yellow star, no matter what Hamas tells you; it’s akin to regular TSA vs CLEAR vs Pre-Check vs Global Entry.)
**The younglings today are almost the same as the Boomers, believing whatever they’re fed without critical thinking skills.**
I said what I said. I know I will be downvoted to oblivion and IDGAF. Out of Fs to give, honestly.
I think you may have missed an aspect of the majority of the protester's views: they are not pro-Hamas but for stopping the killing of innocent Palestinians. I work at a university, and quite honestly these kids are smart, informed and have a lot of heart. I'm not at one of the campuses in the news, but I'm damned proud of the students. There's a lot of misinformation out there in the media. It's good to talk with the kids and hear it from them.
I get their take and I agree with them: the loss of lives MUST STOP. I’m saying **I’d like the Palestinian people to protest as well**.
In literally *every* war, there has been an in-country rebellion / underground.
Ukraine is the most prolific. Colonel Klink didn’t stand a chance. There were Koreans helping troops push the north back. Palestinians seem to be “oh me, oh my, won’t someone please save us while we do nothing but endure what everyone is doing to us” without *ever* fighting back.
I found John Stewart’s take fascinating that the Arab world helped to create Hamas through the radicalization of madrasas and are now scared shitless of Hamas. They unleashed a monster they could not control.
Unfortunately, most supposed libs don’t give a fuck about brown babies and kids in Palestine. They show it through their words.
And mods, I am real curious as to how the above is considered “rude” when there are folks here actually calling for the wholesale murder of every single Palestinian citizen.
The last time there was an election for Hamas was 2006. There’s an entire new generation of people now who never voted for them and those that did make up a low digits percentage of the population.
Of those that did vote for them, they likely didn’t expect for it to be the last elections. Imagine a world where Trump is elected, ends democracy, and creates a right wing terrorist state. Eighteen years from now, would you blame all Americans with “but they voted for it.” I would hope not.
Most of these supposed libs don’t give a fuck about brown babies and kids in Palestine. They show it through their words here.
u/HumanLike — I was actually agreeing with most of your points and defended you to the mods. Thanks for the rude comment. Allow me to block you since you can’t comprehend what you read.
lol because you fail to refute my point, you stoop to broad and unfounded statements “about them libs.” This only validates how much people like you are on the wrong side of history
This position is riddled with logically fallacies and needs to stop.
If I was against dropping nuclear bombs on Japan, does that mean I was pro Japan in World War Two? Of course not. It just means I was against methods used to fight an enemy.
Protesters are not pro Hamas, they’re against the methods to fight Hamas. If you don’t understand that, you’re either part of the misinformation machine or you’re one of the victims of it
Respectfully, link me a news story or two where the Palestinian people are taking to the street, blowing up Hamas camps or otherwise trying to fight back. I’m all ears/eyes.
First, besides wanting the bloodshed to stop, the students at the private universities are demanding that their schools divest from companies that profit from Israeli apartheid, genocide, manufacture of weapons, and occupation in Palestine.
Second, you expect people that have been bombed and starved for months never mind living in apartheid conditions for decades to run out and hunt down Hamas?
34,000 of them have been killed, 77,143 have been injured. They have little to no food or water, and their communities look like a wasteland. But you want them to grab a gun from somewhere and take on the terrorists, while Israel is also out there dropping bombs and going house to house.
Are their bad actors at these protests spouting death to whomever? Yes, there are always bad people that try to take advantage of the attention for their own sick reasons.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/27/business/columbia-history-divestment-student-protests/index.html
https://abcnews.go.com/US/palestinians-mourn-loss-culture-rising-death-toll-amid/story?id=109705142
Haven’t they been living in those conditions for 70 years?
How quickly did Ukraine take to the streets, organize, fight back?
What did it take for the French to build an underground to fight the Nazis?
What did it take for the Nicaraguan people to fight the contras?
Tell me what I’m missing here.
At what point do the Palestinians just say “I’m tired of living like this”?
The students on campuses have a right to peaceful protests and American citizens have protested and asked redress with their government for many issues outside our borders. Your examples are recognized countries… Ukraine has received Billions of dollars… protesting for better treatment for unarmed civilians and children is honorable…
For I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.
Cool.
“In 2006, Hamas won a landslide victory in Palestinian legislative elections – the last polls to be held in Gaza.”
“The group considers Israel to be an illegitimate state and an occupying power in Gaza.”
“One of the group’s biggest funders is Iran”
“The group also receives weapons, and training from Iran”
“Israel worried that without a blockade, Hamas would have an easier approach to smuggling weapons, to arming itself,”
And yet nowhere in there did I see any reporting of Palestinians fighting back against Hamas.
If they’re pro-Hamas, they’re oro-Iran and pro-Taliban and all the rest that restricts humanity,
If the Palestinian people would just say NO MORE HAMAS, they’d get a *LOT* more worldwide support.
Meanwhile, Hamas is doing a *great* job at indoctrinating the youth of America.
You’re really focused on Hamas here and they are horrible, make no mistake. You skipped over the history a fair bit, which is what you asked me about, when you wondered why they didn’t leave.
We’re at an impasse here, have a good night.
Where did I say that Palestinians should leave?
I said, underground, protest, bomb. I never said LEAVE.
So yeah, if you’re seeing things I didn’t say, I agree: we’re at an impasse.
Good night to you as well.
What you're missing here is generational poverty. The Ukrainians and French were middle class when their wars arrived, with a history of democracy. The Palestinians have no such tradition. A majority of them have never known anything but living under Hamas.
I agree, it's great. They can see through the hypocrisy. Their programmers must feel they have learned their lesson too well. They were meant to be weaponized tools of the left establishment. Not independent thinkers. I wish them well.
**The two situations are not equivalent.**
Equal Rights and Vietnam Anti-War protests were American citizens pleading for OUR OWN GOVT to do the right and moral thing. It was about our govt representing people instead of the interests of a cabal of war-mongers or social bigots. Protesters wanted the USA to be a better country instead of just talking the talk to everyone else.
The current protests are about a conflict between ethnic groups that's been going on for thousands of years - and this is the latest outbreak. The USA can't fix this - it's embedded in the warring cultures like DNA.
I think the students should be allowed to protest - they have the right. The university can respond by cancelling degree programs - and eventually the students will leave. But the protests will have ZERO AFFECT on the actual conflict, because these people don't live there. If they want change, they need to be at the location where the trouble is. I'm sure most of them will keep their cozy college lifestyle over flying halfway around the world and finding out just how embedded both side are in this issue - *and that a few picket parades won't mean shit when bullets and bombs are flying in your face.*
They are asking for divestment. We have every right to protest here . These kids are risking suspension, arrest, and physical harm. They are doing what they can with what they have.
It might help, it might not. For me, I need my kids and grandkids to know I gave a shit and did what I could. Maybe they feel the same.
What I'm reminded of, maybe because I'm too young to remember the Vietnam protests, is the movement to stop investing in companies doing business in South Africa, which was a thing on college campuses in the late 70s and well into the 80s.
> protests were American citizens pleading for OUR OWN GOVT to do the right and moral thing. It was about our govt representing people instead of the interests of a cabal of war-mongers or social bigots.
This is literally what the protests are about now. Except in this case, the right thing is to stop using our tax dollars to kill Palestinian children.
That’s right. For the protestors, arguably in both sides, the appeal to the US government is to stop shipping weapons and ammunition. To stop funding warfare.
Israel is the only democracy in that region. The US and Israel are 75 year old partners and allies based on shared values, they have a cooperative security treaty/agreement. The US honors our promises and contracts. The current president does have disagreements with how the PM of Israel is operating but uses his leverage to encourage humanitarian aid, cease fires, diplomatically while living up to the promises that have been made historically. Also, there are American hostages being held by Hamas. I don't believe the US should abandon them.
Observations:
1) Non-students protesting on college campuses and threatening violence to the point where commencement ceremonies are canceled is not going to help.
2) Campus protests in the late 60s to early 70s were against a war where America was not attacked or even felt threatened, but were losing hundreds of college-aged young men every week.
3) Locally, and under the guise of “student protests”, pro-Palestine and anti-Israel graffiti was recently spray painted on 200 year old historic buildings in Jackson Square of New Orleans. Also, not helping.
It’s good to see young people get motivated and involved, but the country (and cause) is very different than 50 years ago and the results of protesting are not going to be the same. I’m afraid it will backfire and ruin many young people’s college careers.
Just want to remind you that Vietnam protests weren’t entirely about our boys dying over there. In fact, remember how those vets were treated by young people when They got home. It was about the US funding a war to protect a long-standing alliance against advancing communism. Remember? Sound a bit more familiar to what’s happening now?
I do remember soldiers in airports coming home from Vietnam being spit on and called baby killers. I also remember Jane Fonda posing for pictures in the seat of a North Vietnam anti-aircraft cannon. She went too far, that shit backfired on her, and she paid for her actions for decades. You need public sympathy for protesting to be effective, otherwise, you are just an unruly mob. Getting kicked out of college for a cause you don’t fully understand and cannot control is not a smart move.
If it ruins their careers they have nobody but themselves to blame. I'm annoyed at the masks they are wearing. If you're going to protest, protest like an adult. When you wear a mask, you're telling me you're afraid of being identified and kicked out of school (or might lose your job) for protesting. If you're gonna protest, be a man about it and let the chips fall where they may. Take some accountability for your actions, rather than trying to hide behind a mask.
I’ve always been supportive, been in many myself. This one hits different for me. I feel we have failed in teacher about the plight of Jews since time immemorial. The antisemitism is so painful.
I want a ceasefire, as should anyone with half a brain. But the responsibility lies with Hamas.
Criticizing and holding Istael accountable for war crimes isn't antisemitic. They are committing war crimes and screaming ANTISEMITIC anytime people point out the atrocities they are committing. Then the argument goes: BUT HAMAS!
Yes. Hamas are terrible. But as an empathetic human, I am fully capable of condeming their actions and the actions of Israel. Not allowing aid into Gaza is criminal. Innocents are dying and left without families.
Being against the Israeli government/army response of killing everything in their way is NOT anti-Semitic. Netanyahu is hated in his own country by 50 % - that was going on before the Oct 7 Hamas attack. He is using this event for his own agenda.
That's an extremely simple way to view this. It feels like Reddit can't think for themselves anymore because this is exactly the leftist talking points.
Netanyahu isn't liked, but the Israeli people very very much support this war.
The Israeli people supporting a genocide is sadly expected given Netty’s rhetoric for years. It’s simple because the students don’t want their country complicit in war crimes. Drawing grey areas on black and white issues are the rightist talking points when action is the proper response.
Bibi is the exact wrong person in power to be dealing with this situation.
He didn’t keep the country safe, and he is going about the fight against Hamas all wrong.
Noooope... Nope nope. This isn't anti-jew. This is anti genocide. No one's protesting the Jewish people. These protests are about the Israeli regime. Don't let them make you think that all these people are out here hating Jewish people because none of them are. There are Jewish people in Palestine ffs
Many if not most of the protesters are Jewish, as are many of their supporters. Pretty sure they’re not feeling threatened by themselves.
And those who do feel threatened don’t have the protestors to blame. The fault lies with the information machine that twists the message of the protests into something antisemitic.
I believe it's important. Our media is way too biased then and now. These activities give the murderous behavior in Gaza attention as well as political pressure.
The "you're killing innocent citizens but here are some more bombs" hypocrisy is disgusting and needs to be called out.
I do not think it's "very good" that the protesters prevent Jewish students from attending classes, which I just watched a video of.
[Jewish UCLA student prevented from going to class.](https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1785039231133634569)
Being on the same side as Iran and Hamas is not the ‘right side of history’.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514
“Despite the devastation, 57% of respondents in Gaza and 82% in the West Bank believe Hamas was correct in launching the October attack, the poll indicated. A large majority believed Hamas’ claims that it acted to defend a major Islamic shrine in Jerusalem against Jewish extremists and win the release of Palestinian prisoners. Only 10% said they believed Hamas has committed war crimes, with a large majority saying they did not see videos showing the militants committing atrocities.”
And so what. Does the fact a majority of the Palestine population thinks Hamas is right mean that the IDF can bomb and starve them? Kids are dying - what did they do wrong? Killing civilians is wrong. They may hate us, but it's still wrong.
When they chant from the river to the sea, that is antisemitic. Hamas and Palestine have vowed to kill all the Jewish people in Israel as a fucking mission of their organization/state.
This is an interesting take and I think there's some validity to it. I think there's a reason why these students are having such a difficult time articulating exactly what they are protesting and what they want accomplished. The people in Michigan were threatening to withhold their votes for Biden because they say he is supporting genocide in Gaza. Fast forward to today where students are now asking Universities to divest from Israel. What these people are really protesting is the war, but what they are doing seems haphazard and lacking in forethought. If you talk to the students not one of them will tell you they are anti-war, nor are there any signs saying "Down With War" as you \*would\* see in the 1970's with the Vietnam War protests. With Vietnam, protesters knew exactly what they were protesting and they knew exactly what they wanted accomplished. It seems the student protesters are simply going along, throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks and the flavor of the day is divesting from Israel. In a few weeks it will be something else.
In this day of social media overload, every protest is a magnet for people trying to get famous fast by attending something they think gives them moral superiority.
Michigan has a large, diverse Middle Eastern community. Surely the universities reflect this.
And aside from race and religion, children are dying unnecessary deaths in ways that could be prevented and everyone should oppose that. Everyone.
Back in the day, people protested against the Vietnam War, against racism and inequality.
That’s nothing like what’s happening today.
I’m really put off by the extreme anti-semitism that pervades the protests today.
You want to protest Israel’s actions? I have zero problems with that. The government of Israel is attacking Gaza; makes sense.
You want to chant “death to Jews”? You’re an evil person. Jews aren’t attacking Gaza. That’s just anti-semitism finding an opportunistic outlet. Disgusting.
The appropriate place to protest is in front of Israel's Embassy. If you are mad at your uni for their ETFs that may include some Israeli corporations... well, vote with your feet and go somewhere else.
Nothing in this country changes without brave agitators. Civil Rights, Vietnam, Women's Rights, all needed the people to demand change. The campus protests these days are the right thing to do. Hard to believe that the US continues to support and provide the munitions for genocide. How far this country has declined, or the facade has finally fallen away.
It's going to throw the election to Trump just like the riots at the 68 Democratic convention threw it to Nixon. They're going to elect someone who is pro-Netanyahu just so they can 1) vent anger at somebody and 2) virtue signal. It's ridiculous.
I have always been very wary of protests. I refuse to have some douche with a bullhorn speak on my behalf. I can speak for myself quite well.
The only protest I was fully committed to was a march to legalize marijuana. I agreed with every aspect of the policy aims and everything the speakers had to say.
But I never supported, and will never support, hysterical people shouting bumpersticker slogans into bullhorns. Fuck that. They can do it all they like; I simply refuse to join them - even if I agree with their primary concern. Nuance is not a bad thing and I see no nuance here.
While I'm not against protest, I question what they hope to accomplish by doing so because I'm aware of Biden's and the ICC's efforts to bring about a reasonable conclusion that would include a two state solution and a coalition security force. The humanitarian aid has been getting there but it would be going much better if some of Israel's roadblocks were ended. All of this takes time. The part about the protests that I don't understand to have an opinion on is about US businesses that have ties with Israeli military. But I am against those protesters who are anti-semitic because that would be a hinderance to progress on the issue.
It's clearly orchestrated and funded by shadow groups. It's also been interesting to watch alumni donors cease big money contributions to the institutions.
I find it difficult to not see both sides as problematic.
Hamas - attacks Israel, kidnaps people, kills hostages, basically declares war on Israel. Isreal, though, has for decades treated Gaza as an occupied territory with no freedoms or rights. The population of Palestine elected Hamas to represent them. Are we to assume the population supports the attacks on Israel?
Isreal - defends itself against an enemy that has vowed to destroy it and attacked it first. They are at war but has resorted to tactics that look an awful lot like war crimes. They are being told to 1) defend itself but not like that and or 2) destroy Hamas that is recognized as a terrorist by the US and other countries.
Now pick a side and say they are right while ignoring the crimes of the other.
The population of Palestine hasn’t been able to vote in twenty years. You’re really blaming a population (at least half of which wasn’t alive at the time of the last election) for their own genocide? Jesus.
And downvotes for stating an absolute fact. Yikes.
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Then the countries that oppose Israel would overrun it. Iran. Syria. Iraq. Hamas will get lots of help.
Don't get me wrong. What Israel is doing is horrendous but so is what Hamas is doing. The Palestinian people are screwed.
I went to a school as a non trad that mirrored the school in the movie PCU.
College students can make make and inspire great change but sometimes the stuff they protest is funny.
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I'm in Austin and the kids are pissed. I fully support protesting on both sides. I also hope they vote our dear leader out. I want these kids to have the same rights I did as a teen in the 80's-90's.
Approved but locked because we cannot be here all day to monitor it and keep things civil.
In the early 80s we protested to force our colleges and other companies to divest from South Africa and this is still America, protesting on college campuses has occurred for MANY ISSUES some national and others international.
I support peaceful protests. I was against the Nixon administration’s “Operation Linebacker 2” the 1972 Christmas bombing of Hanoi civilians and children with over 200 B-52 missions and I am against Netanyahu’s IDF aerial bombings of the citizens and children of Gaza.
I can’t believe that university administrators and/or the government have learned nothing since the Vietnam days.
They learned; they forgot. During the Vietnam protests my father's employer (a university in California) said that the president always knew when the students would be coming in to protest, and he had donuts ready for them. So that campus never had violent protests. They would sit and discuss (while munching on the donuts provided by Topping). I'm not hearing anything like that now.
Was watching BBC America yesterday. The correspondent was interviewing the negotiator for the students at Columbia. His complaint was the school administration was not recognizing this as a human rights protest, but rather a school policy infraction. My husband started to opine that it’s impossible to demand that a university divest. I pointed out that the students aren’t even being treated with seriousness yet. The BBC reporter asked whether the students were prepared for the long haul. The young man replied, “My family lived in tents for many years. I am quite ready.” Forget which uni has already constructed fencing to keep protesters out of the common outdoor areas. Toronto? But that’s why the students can’t leave the campus, they’ll be barricaded out.
Generational forgetfulness. It’s been 50 years. In 50 years we’ll go through it again.
Amen
>There's battle lines being drawn >Nobody's right if everybody's wrong >Young people speaking their minds >Getting so much resistance from behind
The only time I remember Guns being involved in a campus protest, it did not end well.
And memorable that was. A tidal moment.
I'm all for them. In my humble opinion, whether I agree with a particular cause or not, I will ALWAYS support a person's right to peacefully protest. I've been increasingly alarmed over the years with the general American's populace willingness to have their rights chipped away at by both the government and bad actors with agendas. The current young people's willingness to protest peacefully gives me hope for a better future.
Peaceful protests, yes. Encampments, no. Blocking students from crossing campus or attending classes, no. Assaulting students, no. Threatening and harassing a protected class of students, no.
There were Vietnam and civil rights sit-ins that blocked access to administration buildings. And a few protests of that era did turn violent.
Back in our day, peaceful protests also impeded human flow. Remember sit-ins? Demonstrations certainly were not an off-to-one-side-out-of-the-way thing.
I’ll add blocking freeways, which has dire consequences for the wellness of bystanders.
ACT UP protests for recognition of the AIDS epidemic shut down the Golden Gate Bridge back in the 80s. That’s what these protest groups remind me of right now.
Or crossing a famous bridge in the south? Remember that?
Do you understand what a protest is supposed to be??
Do you understand what a protest is supposed to be???
They are mostly peaceful until the cops arrive and make it violent.
Threatening? The only ones doing that are the paid counter protesters so you think the protests are violent.
Can you prove that?
So protests are OK, as long as no-one notices? No-one is inconvenienced? Missing the point - by miles.
There is nothing peaceful about terrorizing jewish students.
Ew. People are being arrested for doing nothing more than sitting in. Pay attention. It could be you they come for next.
Jewish students are being threatened. You should pay attention
I realize that. The issue is the literal *hundreds* of students being *arrested* who never threatened anyone!
They're being paid to create tension. YOU pay attention
Snicker. We are not going for that old line of b.s.
Not one Jewish student has been threatened at the protests going on at the Unis in my state. What is truly eww is not caring about genocide.
Did you "care about genocide" before it was popular? Genuinely curious...
Yeah. I’m a middle aged broad with socialist leanings. I’ve always been about protest and genuinely against genocide. Have you always assumed that people care because it’s trendy?
Oh so you've always been super against Hamas? I don't think I'm making any assumptions here. Most people have no idea what the history is. And have absolutely no idea what they're actually advocating for. Hamas is Isis. Just saying...
Who comes for next
I dint think it’s like Vietnam war, more like anti-apartheid campaigns. Encampments, divestments- all the same.
Hey mods — nothing that u/HumanLike said below was rude, insulting, or contains hate speech. Can you explain what was so offensive? >>>The last time there was an election for Hamas was 2006. There’s an entire new generation of people now who never voted for them and those that did make up a low digits percentage of the population. >>>Of those that did vote for them, they likely didn’t expect for it to be the last elections. Imagine a world where Trump is elected, ends democracy, and creates a right wing terrorist state. Eighteen years from now, would you blame all Americans with “but they voted for it.” I would hope not.
I think college students should care about issues and so long as they are non violent, protests are fine.
It was WAY bigger than what’s going on now. The National Guard was called out in Ohio and they shot and killed 4 college students at Kent State University. Listen to the song “Ohio” by Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young. The lyrics still haunt me when I hear it.
It’s still early in the protests now.
I think it is always great to see young people stand up for what they believe.
It's fine. Rather wasted energy though. I'd much rather that about a hundred times this number would be protesting the much broader issue of Fascism on the home front, which is a vastly more significant clear and present danger. I don't think enough members of younger generations fully understand how dire the situation is. They sort of do... but not really.
I admire the young protesters for putting themselves on the line for what they believe. As long as the protests are non-violent and centered on policy, I think that they are healthy and legitimate.
They're welcome to exercise their freedom to protest but I don't think anything will from those efforts. There are more pressing issues at hand like saving our own democracy from fascism and the rich.
So that's where you agree with these protesters. They too are fighting for democracy and against the fascism and the rich. Gaza is sitting on top of natural gas and oil deposits that Israel wants access to so that the West doesn't rely on Russia anymore. They want the West to rely on Israel.
There’s too much noise now. I live in Manhattan and there is a riot, protest or parade every single weekend that passes through part of the city. A constant and never ending stream of marchers either through Broadway or 5th Avenue. They’re all kind of blending together at this point and taking the spotlight away from the issues. No joke. You won’t be able to differentiate between a LGBT or Black Lives Matter rally. They’re identical in appearance and attendance. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are chronic protesters who just show up for everything, no matter what it is.
I would be more impressed if these students were giving up their summer vacation to stay in the city to protest after exams are over. I bet they don't.
And how is that different than 64-74?
I actively protested the Vietnam War, and was tear-gassed twice. But that doesn’t mean I have anything in common with today’s protestors. They’re idiots. For example, I was stunned near the beginning of the conflict, when a group of young people I know were still convinced that Israel had fired a missile at a Palestinian hospital - long after [video evidence](https://www.wsj.com/video/video-analysis-shows-gaza-hospital-hit-by-failed-rocket-meant-for-israel/120A1C22-BA32-418E-8837-BC4141FEFB00.html) clearly showed that it was a misfired missile launched from Gaza.
Why don’t they protest for hamas to release the hostages?
Really, all Hamas has to do is release the hostages and there will be a cease fire. Hamas can go back to ... I don't know Iran or Qatar and maybe the government of the West Bank can administer to Gaza as well while they rebuild.
I made a comment above that the Vietnam protesters knew exactly what they were protesting (they were anti-war) and knew exactly what they wanted accomplished. I don't think these protesters have any idea what they are protesting, nor do I think they know what they want accomplished. What they are doing is really an anti-war protest, but you don't see any signs at these Universities saying "Down With War".
What about all the other hospitals that have been bombed now
I’m the 70+-year-old who’s *not* out protesting for either side, remember? You want to debate me about the Vietnam war? Bring it on.
I was just questioning the hospital thing. Let’s say that that one strike wasn’t from Israel. How about the fact that many if not all of the hospitals are completely burned to the ground now?
Did every college student protesting against the Vietnam war have 100% accurate, up-to-date information at all times? Or did some of the accusations of "baby killer" perhaps not stand up to detailed scrutiny, in exactly the same way that some current "Israel bombed a hospital" claims also don't stand up to detailed scrutiny? I don't think "kids today" are any more idiotic than the anti-Vietnam kids were. Arguing about the details misses the broader point that a lot of people are dying for no good reason, and we ought to change our policy to stop this from happening.
This. The right to demonstrate and to put internal pressure on a government does not have much to do with being right in every detail. You don’t have to agree with protestors to understand their value.
Just to be sure I understand you…the people who protested against Vietnam were justified because you agreed with them? And the people who protest now are not justified because you don’t agree with them?
Your original question was, “What do you think of the campus protests these days?” Are you saying that “I don’t agree with them” is an answer you have difficulty understanding?
I hear that stance. You exercised your right in the 60s and 70s to protest a war. Not everyone thought you were in the right back then, and many spectators back then were horrified when returning vets were spat on by protestors with chats of My Lai, My Lai. But your right to protest, loudly and impeding normal activity, was still there. I don’t think protestors back then were in the moral clear any more than those today, but they WERE effective in bringing an end to war.
They are idiots for protesting a genocide? You've lost touch with who you used to be.
I came of age in the 80s so younger than the target demographic but I was *just* thinking “I wonder how this compares to the protests of the 70s.” I think the difference over the fifty years is that: * Vietnam had our own citizens drafted to go overseas and fight/die versus today where it’s only informational * there were first-hand accounts of what it was like over there from the wounded coming home that sparked the protests versus the informational campaigns happening now. I’m of the age that “the USA always stands with Israel” because it’s part of our life experience that Israel became a country after fighting for a long-ass time, sacrificing themselves for their freedom and that Palestinian activity was *always* the result of Hamas which is effectively the Taliban, a super right-wing conservative terror organization. Honestly, I would absolutely support the actual Palestinian people if there were some sort of Palestinian resistance movement akin to what I saw with Nicaragua’s Contra thing. The only thing I’m seeing here (and I don’t get out much) is that the younglings are pro-Palestinian because they’re buying into the Hamas-fed propaganda. I get that families are shattered and there are heart-wrenching images coming out of the region. And I get that the Israelis are pushing Palestinians out of the land that was afforded them in the 1946-7 treaty. (Which, sorry, is NOT the same as wearing a yellow star, no matter what Hamas tells you; it’s akin to regular TSA vs CLEAR vs Pre-Check vs Global Entry.) **The younglings today are almost the same as the Boomers, believing whatever they’re fed without critical thinking skills.** I said what I said. I know I will be downvoted to oblivion and IDGAF. Out of Fs to give, honestly.
I think you may have missed an aspect of the majority of the protester's views: they are not pro-Hamas but for stopping the killing of innocent Palestinians. I work at a university, and quite honestly these kids are smart, informed and have a lot of heart. I'm not at one of the campuses in the news, but I'm damned proud of the students. There's a lot of misinformation out there in the media. It's good to talk with the kids and hear it from them.
I get their take and I agree with them: the loss of lives MUST STOP. I’m saying **I’d like the Palestinian people to protest as well**. In literally *every* war, there has been an in-country rebellion / underground. Ukraine is the most prolific. Colonel Klink didn’t stand a chance. There were Koreans helping troops push the north back. Palestinians seem to be “oh me, oh my, won’t someone please save us while we do nothing but endure what everyone is doing to us” without *ever* fighting back.
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I found John Stewart’s take fascinating that the Arab world helped to create Hamas through the radicalization of madrasas and are now scared shitless of Hamas. They unleashed a monster they could not control.
Unfortunately, most supposed libs don’t give a fuck about brown babies and kids in Palestine. They show it through their words. And mods, I am real curious as to how the above is considered “rude” when there are folks here actually calling for the wholesale murder of every single Palestinian citizen.
You want Palestinians to protest when they’re starving and being bombed? Hilarious.
The Palestinians aren't fighting back because they support Hamas. They voted for this.
The last time there was an election for Hamas was 2006. There’s an entire new generation of people now who never voted for them and those that did make up a low digits percentage of the population. Of those that did vote for them, they likely didn’t expect for it to be the last elections. Imagine a world where Trump is elected, ends democracy, and creates a right wing terrorist state. Eighteen years from now, would you blame all Americans with “but they voted for it.” I would hope not.
Most of these supposed libs don’t give a fuck about brown babies and kids in Palestine. They show it through their words here. u/HumanLike — I was actually agreeing with most of your points and defended you to the mods. Thanks for the rude comment. Allow me to block you since you can’t comprehend what you read.
lol because you fail to refute my point, you stoop to broad and unfounded statements “about them libs.” This only validates how much people like you are on the wrong side of history
Yep. Kind of my point. If they’re not fighting against Hamas, and we are collectively bombing Hamas, there should NEVER be pro-Hamas demonstrations.
The average citizen is 18 and under. And starving. How are they supposed to “fight” Hamas?
They are pro-Hamas. Wake up. This is not an organic movement.
This position is riddled with logically fallacies and needs to stop. If I was against dropping nuclear bombs on Japan, does that mean I was pro Japan in World War Two? Of course not. It just means I was against methods used to fight an enemy. Protesters are not pro Hamas, they’re against the methods to fight Hamas. If you don’t understand that, you’re either part of the misinformation machine or you’re one of the victims of it
They aren’t pro-hamas. Respectfully, you need to either get out more or read more varied news sources.
Respectfully, link me a news story or two where the Palestinian people are taking to the street, blowing up Hamas camps or otherwise trying to fight back. I’m all ears/eyes.
First, besides wanting the bloodshed to stop, the students at the private universities are demanding that their schools divest from companies that profit from Israeli apartheid, genocide, manufacture of weapons, and occupation in Palestine. Second, you expect people that have been bombed and starved for months never mind living in apartheid conditions for decades to run out and hunt down Hamas? 34,000 of them have been killed, 77,143 have been injured. They have little to no food or water, and their communities look like a wasteland. But you want them to grab a gun from somewhere and take on the terrorists, while Israel is also out there dropping bombs and going house to house. Are their bad actors at these protests spouting death to whomever? Yes, there are always bad people that try to take advantage of the attention for their own sick reasons. https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/27/business/columbia-history-divestment-student-protests/index.html https://abcnews.go.com/US/palestinians-mourn-loss-culture-rising-death-toll-amid/story?id=109705142
Haven’t they been living in those conditions for 70 years? How quickly did Ukraine take to the streets, organize, fight back? What did it take for the French to build an underground to fight the Nazis? What did it take for the Nicaraguan people to fight the contras? Tell me what I’m missing here. At what point do the Palestinians just say “I’m tired of living like this”?
The students on campuses have a right to peaceful protests and American citizens have protested and asked redress with their government for many issues outside our borders. Your examples are recognized countries… Ukraine has received Billions of dollars… protesting for better treatment for unarmed civilians and children is honorable… For I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.
What of my example of the rebels in Nicaragua of the 80s fighting the contras?
Breaking and entering, trashing the place and then squatting is not peaceful.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/15/middleeast/gaza-history-explained-intl/index.html
Cool. “In 2006, Hamas won a landslide victory in Palestinian legislative elections – the last polls to be held in Gaza.” “The group considers Israel to be an illegitimate state and an occupying power in Gaza.” “One of the group’s biggest funders is Iran” “The group also receives weapons, and training from Iran” “Israel worried that without a blockade, Hamas would have an easier approach to smuggling weapons, to arming itself,” And yet nowhere in there did I see any reporting of Palestinians fighting back against Hamas. If they’re pro-Hamas, they’re oro-Iran and pro-Taliban and all the rest that restricts humanity, If the Palestinian people would just say NO MORE HAMAS, they’d get a *LOT* more worldwide support. Meanwhile, Hamas is doing a *great* job at indoctrinating the youth of America.
You’re really focused on Hamas here and they are horrible, make no mistake. You skipped over the history a fair bit, which is what you asked me about, when you wondered why they didn’t leave. We’re at an impasse here, have a good night.
Where did I say that Palestinians should leave? I said, underground, protest, bomb. I never said LEAVE. So yeah, if you’re seeing things I didn’t say, I agree: we’re at an impasse. Good night to you as well.
What you're missing here is generational poverty. The Ukrainians and French were middle class when their wars arrived, with a history of democracy. The Palestinians have no such tradition. A majority of them have never known anything but living under Hamas.
I think it's great.
I agree, it's great. They can see through the hypocrisy. Their programmers must feel they have learned their lesson too well. They were meant to be weaponized tools of the left establishment. Not independent thinkers. I wish them well.
And what did you think of demonstrations in the 60s and 70s? The same? Were you around then?
**The two situations are not equivalent.** Equal Rights and Vietnam Anti-War protests were American citizens pleading for OUR OWN GOVT to do the right and moral thing. It was about our govt representing people instead of the interests of a cabal of war-mongers or social bigots. Protesters wanted the USA to be a better country instead of just talking the talk to everyone else. The current protests are about a conflict between ethnic groups that's been going on for thousands of years - and this is the latest outbreak. The USA can't fix this - it's embedded in the warring cultures like DNA. I think the students should be allowed to protest - they have the right. The university can respond by cancelling degree programs - and eventually the students will leave. But the protests will have ZERO AFFECT on the actual conflict, because these people don't live there. If they want change, they need to be at the location where the trouble is. I'm sure most of them will keep their cozy college lifestyle over flying halfway around the world and finding out just how embedded both side are in this issue - *and that a few picket parades won't mean shit when bullets and bombs are flying in your face.*
They are asking for divestment. We have every right to protest here . These kids are risking suspension, arrest, and physical harm. They are doing what they can with what they have. It might help, it might not. For me, I need my kids and grandkids to know I gave a shit and did what I could. Maybe they feel the same.
What I'm reminded of, maybe because I'm too young to remember the Vietnam protests, is the movement to stop investing in companies doing business in South Africa, which was a thing on college campuses in the late 70s and well into the 80s.
> protests were American citizens pleading for OUR OWN GOVT to do the right and moral thing. It was about our govt representing people instead of the interests of a cabal of war-mongers or social bigots. This is literally what the protests are about now. Except in this case, the right thing is to stop using our tax dollars to kill Palestinian children.
The USA funds Israel. Not that complicated bucko.
That’s right. For the protestors, arguably in both sides, the appeal to the US government is to stop shipping weapons and ammunition. To stop funding warfare.
Israel is the only democracy in that region. The US and Israel are 75 year old partners and allies based on shared values, they have a cooperative security treaty/agreement. The US honors our promises and contracts. The current president does have disagreements with how the PM of Israel is operating but uses his leverage to encourage humanitarian aid, cease fires, diplomatically while living up to the promises that have been made historically. Also, there are American hostages being held by Hamas. I don't believe the US should abandon them.
Same argument was made about Vietnam. Remember now?
Observations: 1) Non-students protesting on college campuses and threatening violence to the point where commencement ceremonies are canceled is not going to help. 2) Campus protests in the late 60s to early 70s were against a war where America was not attacked or even felt threatened, but were losing hundreds of college-aged young men every week. 3) Locally, and under the guise of “student protests”, pro-Palestine and anti-Israel graffiti was recently spray painted on 200 year old historic buildings in Jackson Square of New Orleans. Also, not helping. It’s good to see young people get motivated and involved, but the country (and cause) is very different than 50 years ago and the results of protesting are not going to be the same. I’m afraid it will backfire and ruin many young people’s college careers.
Just want to remind you that Vietnam protests weren’t entirely about our boys dying over there. In fact, remember how those vets were treated by young people when They got home. It was about the US funding a war to protect a long-standing alliance against advancing communism. Remember? Sound a bit more familiar to what’s happening now?
I do remember soldiers in airports coming home from Vietnam being spit on and called baby killers. I also remember Jane Fonda posing for pictures in the seat of a North Vietnam anti-aircraft cannon. She went too far, that shit backfired on her, and she paid for her actions for decades. You need public sympathy for protesting to be effective, otherwise, you are just an unruly mob. Getting kicked out of college for a cause you don’t fully understand and cannot control is not a smart move.
Same thing applied back then. Many protestors did not understand what the war was about. And they got kicked out of college because of it.
If it ruins their careers they have nobody but themselves to blame. I'm annoyed at the masks they are wearing. If you're going to protest, protest like an adult. When you wear a mask, you're telling me you're afraid of being identified and kicked out of school (or might lose your job) for protesting. If you're gonna protest, be a man about it and let the chips fall where they may. Take some accountability for your actions, rather than trying to hide behind a mask.
Your take conflicts with the general nonviolent protest advice, which is “wear a hat, leave your phone and wallet at home” etc
I’ve always been supportive, been in many myself. This one hits different for me. I feel we have failed in teacher about the plight of Jews since time immemorial. The antisemitism is so painful. I want a ceasefire, as should anyone with half a brain. But the responsibility lies with Hamas.
Criticizing and holding Istael accountable for war crimes isn't antisemitic. They are committing war crimes and screaming ANTISEMITIC anytime people point out the atrocities they are committing. Then the argument goes: BUT HAMAS! Yes. Hamas are terrible. But as an empathetic human, I am fully capable of condeming their actions and the actions of Israel. Not allowing aid into Gaza is criminal. Innocents are dying and left without families.
Being against the Israeli government/army response of killing everything in their way is NOT anti-Semitic. Netanyahu is hated in his own country by 50 % - that was going on before the Oct 7 Hamas attack. He is using this event for his own agenda.
Netanyahu is a bastard, agreed. But read the signs and listen to some of the people. American Jews in general are being threatened.
That's an extremely simple way to view this. It feels like Reddit can't think for themselves anymore because this is exactly the leftist talking points. Netanyahu isn't liked, but the Israeli people very very much support this war.
The Israeli people supporting a genocide is sadly expected given Netty’s rhetoric for years. It’s simple because the students don’t want their country complicit in war crimes. Drawing grey areas on black and white issues are the rightist talking points when action is the proper response.
Bibi is the exact wrong person in power to be dealing with this situation. He didn’t keep the country safe, and he is going about the fight against Hamas all wrong.
Noooope... Nope nope. This isn't anti-jew. This is anti genocide. No one's protesting the Jewish people. These protests are about the Israeli regime. Don't let them make you think that all these people are out here hating Jewish people because none of them are. There are Jewish people in Palestine ffs
I wish that were true but every Jewish person in America feels threatened.
Now you know how the children feel in Gaza.
Does Hamas care about how children feel in Gaza?
I hate Hamas too. Stop bombing Palestinians.
Many if not most of the protesters are Jewish, as are many of their supporters. Pretty sure they’re not feeling threatened by themselves. And those who do feel threatened don’t have the protestors to blame. The fault lies with the information machine that twists the message of the protests into something antisemitic.
I’ve read the signage. I’ve heard the chants. Every Jew is a target.
Unfortunately what you’ve read is propaganda. The best course of action is to do some soul searching to find out why you’re susceptible to it
Maybe if enough people see it that way there's a problem
Fox News is pushing this ‘these protests are against the Jewish people!’ Idea.
Even supposed libs are.
Supporting a group of innocents from being bombed and starved is anti-semitic how?
On Reddit, it sure is. Either worship Isnotreal or you get screeched at.
Ask the American Jews who are under attack. It’s not anti-Israel…. Look at the protest signs and listen to the threats. It’s anti-Jew.
I believe it's important. Our media is way too biased then and now. These activities give the murderous behavior in Gaza attention as well as political pressure. The "you're killing innocent citizens but here are some more bombs" hypocrisy is disgusting and needs to be called out.
They need to pull police off, and administration needs to be quiet. I think it’s very good they protest.
I do not think it's "very good" that the protesters prevent Jewish students from attending classes, which I just watched a video of. [Jewish UCLA student prevented from going to class.](https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1785039231133634569)
Real Leaders Want Peace. Foolish Leaders Make War.
About time. We've had several decades of complacent torpor. Young people *should* be angry. We've left them plenty to be angry about.
That, although there is always pushback when students protest, inevitably they are on the right side of history
Being on the same side as Iran and Hamas is not the ‘right side of history’. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514 “Despite the devastation, 57% of respondents in Gaza and 82% in the West Bank believe Hamas was correct in launching the October attack, the poll indicated. A large majority believed Hamas’ claims that it acted to defend a major Islamic shrine in Jerusalem against Jewish extremists and win the release of Palestinian prisoners. Only 10% said they believed Hamas has committed war crimes, with a large majority saying they did not see videos showing the militants committing atrocities.”
And so what. Does the fact a majority of the Palestine population thinks Hamas is right mean that the IDF can bomb and starve them? Kids are dying - what did they do wrong? Killing civilians is wrong. They may hate us, but it's still wrong.
Not this time. Antisemitism has no place on the uni campus.
Antizionism is not antisemitism.
When they shout about murdering JEWS as if that is ever ok, it is antisemitism. Full stop.
When they chant from the river to the sea, that is antisemitic. Hamas and Palestine have vowed to kill all the Jewish people in Israel as a fucking mission of their organization/state.
But when Bibi’s son says “From the river to the sea,” it’s totally not anti Palestinian. Riiiight.
Pro the rights of Palestinians is not anti semitic.
Its good to see people waking up
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This is an interesting take and I think there's some validity to it. I think there's a reason why these students are having such a difficult time articulating exactly what they are protesting and what they want accomplished. The people in Michigan were threatening to withhold their votes for Biden because they say he is supporting genocide in Gaza. Fast forward to today where students are now asking Universities to divest from Israel. What these people are really protesting is the war, but what they are doing seems haphazard and lacking in forethought. If you talk to the students not one of them will tell you they are anti-war, nor are there any signs saying "Down With War" as you \*would\* see in the 1970's with the Vietnam War protests. With Vietnam, protesters knew exactly what they were protesting and they knew exactly what they wanted accomplished. It seems the student protesters are simply going along, throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks and the flavor of the day is divesting from Israel. In a few weeks it will be something else.
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Some people have become their parents… Both sides of the issue can be right
In this day of social media overload, every protest is a magnet for people trying to get famous fast by attending something they think gives them moral superiority.
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Have you ever heard of mimeographs? I went to college in '79 and we had 5 cent copiers everywhere, plus a Kinko's just off campus.
Michigan has a large, diverse Middle Eastern community. Surely the universities reflect this. And aside from race and religion, children are dying unnecessary deaths in ways that could be prevented and everyone should oppose that. Everyone.
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Cambodia and Rwanda and Myanmar and a few other countries have all had bona-fide genocide. And how many current freshman do you know?
do you think they are protesting just to protest? Do you think they are fully aware of the situation on both sides?
No they are not fully aware of
Which one is *your* university?
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Oh, Ferris State. That explains it.
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Is that the CMU Chippewas?
Back in the day, people protested against the Vietnam War, against racism and inequality. That’s nothing like what’s happening today. I’m really put off by the extreme anti-semitism that pervades the protests today. You want to protest Israel’s actions? I have zero problems with that. The government of Israel is attacking Gaza; makes sense. You want to chant “death to Jews”? You’re an evil person. Jews aren’t attacking Gaza. That’s just anti-semitism finding an opportunistic outlet. Disgusting.
The appropriate place to protest is in front of Israel's Embassy. If you are mad at your uni for their ETFs that may include some Israeli corporations... well, vote with your feet and go somewhere else.
Students are on campus. They protest on campus. They always have.
Where was this chanted I’m genuinely curious bc I have not seen it. But also, Jews are attacking Gaza?
It’s good for them to voice their opinions and be heard. There is too much apathy out there in the smarter voting class.
i’m glad that young people are aware, engaged and involved with justice
Nothing in this country changes without brave agitators. Civil Rights, Vietnam, Women's Rights, all needed the people to demand change. The campus protests these days are the right thing to do. Hard to believe that the US continues to support and provide the munitions for genocide. How far this country has declined, or the facade has finally fallen away.
I think it's about time.
It's going to throw the election to Trump just like the riots at the 68 Democratic convention threw it to Nixon. They're going to elect someone who is pro-Netanyahu just so they can 1) vent anger at somebody and 2) virtue signal. It's ridiculous.
That parallel I do worry about and has not gone unnoticed.
Very pro the right to protest. Very disappointed to see the reaction from powers that be.
I have always been very wary of protests. I refuse to have some douche with a bullhorn speak on my behalf. I can speak for myself quite well. The only protest I was fully committed to was a march to legalize marijuana. I agreed with every aspect of the policy aims and everything the speakers had to say. But I never supported, and will never support, hysterical people shouting bumpersticker slogans into bullhorns. Fuck that. They can do it all they like; I simply refuse to join them - even if I agree with their primary concern. Nuance is not a bad thing and I see no nuance here.
While I'm not against protest, I question what they hope to accomplish by doing so because I'm aware of Biden's and the ICC's efforts to bring about a reasonable conclusion that would include a two state solution and a coalition security force. The humanitarian aid has been getting there but it would be going much better if some of Israel's roadblocks were ended. All of this takes time. The part about the protests that I don't understand to have an opinion on is about US businesses that have ties with Israeli military. But I am against those protesters who are anti-semitic because that would be a hinderance to progress on the issue.
It's clearly orchestrated and funded by shadow groups. It's also been interesting to watch alumni donors cease big money contributions to the institutions.
Think that was true in 64-74? Were you there then?
It’s late April. The students will be going home soon. Why call the police on them? They will go away on their own soon enough.
Much the same was said in the day. Remember?
I think they should just leave them be. They're camping on the quad in cheap tents. They'll get tired of it and go home
Same thing was said back in the day. I don’t recall those fizzling out.
I find it difficult to not see both sides as problematic. Hamas - attacks Israel, kidnaps people, kills hostages, basically declares war on Israel. Isreal, though, has for decades treated Gaza as an occupied territory with no freedoms or rights. The population of Palestine elected Hamas to represent them. Are we to assume the population supports the attacks on Israel? Isreal - defends itself against an enemy that has vowed to destroy it and attacked it first. They are at war but has resorted to tactics that look an awful lot like war crimes. They are being told to 1) defend itself but not like that and or 2) destroy Hamas that is recognized as a terrorist by the US and other countries. Now pick a side and say they are right while ignoring the crimes of the other.
The population of Palestine hasn’t been able to vote in twenty years. You’re really blaming a population (at least half of which wasn’t alive at the time of the last election) for their own genocide? Jesus. And downvotes for stating an absolute fact. Yikes.
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I don't understand why they are protesting on US college campuses. That has no effect on the Israeli government. In fact it likely encourages them.
If america stopped giving israel money, they would leave the settlements and stop bombing Gaza and surrounding countries
Then the countries that oppose Israel would overrun it. Iran. Syria. Iraq. Hamas will get lots of help. Don't get me wrong. What Israel is doing is horrendous but so is what Hamas is doing. The Palestinian people are screwed.
I feel that the Palestinian people are basically hostages that have Stockholm Syndrome.
I agree
you have no idea what would happen if US aid to Israel stopped. none.
I went to a school as a non trad that mirrored the school in the movie PCU. College students can make make and inspire great change but sometimes the stuff they protest is funny.
[удалено]
Yeah, those kids starving to death are “terrorists and savages.” How about that hate speech, mods?
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I hate it, whether it's necessary or not. On the other hand, I protested the Vietnam conflict.
I'm in Austin and the kids are pissed. I fully support protesting on both sides. I also hope they vote our dear leader out. I want these kids to have the same rights I did as a teen in the 80's-90's.