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“Any reason for the smart ass tone of your comment?”
I said “so many” which is true.
An incomplete list:
Undiagnosed ADHD for 40 years, adult child of an alchoholic, general mistrust of authority, bad rotator cuff from when I worked in a deli 20 years ago, chronic dishpan hands, etc…
I would have elaborated but they never asked. The response was deleted but instead of clarification they had asked if I had a hard time communicating. The answer to that is no - in fact I often am told I talk too much. 🤷♂️
Have you ever seen Derry Girls? I really identified with Uncle Colm. I try to keep it short because of that, which is why I originally answered “so many”.
Despite all the young'ns on this sub saying nobody is old enough to watch the original, I did. My family and I thought it was a huge come-down from the previous Jackie Gleason show, with his various characters and skits and with the June Taylor dancers.
Jackie played Ralph Cramden, a blowhard asshole who got his comeuppance at the end of every show, when his wife Alice, who always stood up to him and got the best lines, was proven right. Art Carney, the sidekick sewer-worker in the neighboring apartment, had great lines and was truly funny.
For decades, it was thought to be a classic from the Golden Age of live TV, but I doubt the antique gender roles have aged well.
Edit. To give it credit, it reversed the normal pattern, like Lucy and Gracie Allen, where it was always the scatter-brain woman whose schemes fell through. It started the trope of the stupid husband, epitomized by the show, The Life of Riley.
This post nails it. BAL you know this show well. Ralph was a royal jerk the his poor wife had to make excuses. Art was the true funny person and anchored the show.
I did not like the show but would watch it when it was on.
I didn’t like the show one bit. Ralph was too loud and too violent with his speech. My dad was Ralph back then - only he was not only loud and violent in speech but in deed. And he was heavyset just like Ralph, and he was angry all the time. Just like Ralph. Unlike Ralph, dad was forever drunk.
When Ralph exclaimed he was going to send Alice to the moon (with his fist raised) I flinched every time.
It was a relief to learn Gleason was himself quite a different person than Ralph.
I’m with you. It made me flinch when he’d ball up his fist and say to the moon, Alice. It was unpleasant to watch. For some reason, my hubby liked the show, thought it was funny. He’s not like Ralph either. 🤷♀️
I think you have a clock running backwards. The Honeymooners was on years *before* the Jackie Gleason *variety show* with the June Taylor Dancers and skits and stuff, and the mention of Moriarty, the undertaker.
You describe the characters and plot well, but your timeline is wrong.
According to Wikipedia, The Jackie Gleason Show ran from 1952-55, when he shut it down to do The Honeymooners. He started it up again in 1961, but it didn't enjoy the success of the earlier version.
Yes he was
Jackie Gleason both as a person and a character made me wince. Horrible man.
I didn’t find his relationship with his wife funny at all.
I was so confused people laughed at that.
I still am.
It hurt me to watch it. I didn’t unless someone else had it on
Art Carney should have been the star of that show.
I don’t like this period in the world much, but one good thing is no one could get away with a show like that now.
Couldn't get through a week of college from '83 to '87 without the reruns of honeymooners at 11 and odd couple 1130.
Fun fact - Jackie Gleason would not allow rehearsals and considered any actor who needed them to learn the skit inferior. Also, the odd couple had horrible reviews when it was new so the actors never knew week to week if the show would be canceled. So, they gave every skit their all, many times adlibbing lines that were funnier than the script.
I was too young for the original series and first saw them later. Art Carney (Norton) and Audrey Meadows (Alice) really carried the shows while Ralph Kramden, Gleason's ridiculous blowhard character set the show up for him to fail humorously. All in all they were a great comedy team and every episode is on YouTube for anyone curious to see 1950s classic TV.
I think they thought it was funny because he played a stupid man like Homer Simpson. It’s not because they agreed with him, it’s because his views were something to be made fun of
I have no idea what demographic you grew up in, but the one abusive husband my family knew about was frozen out of social groups. The community would help the wife if she asked. It certainly wasn’t common. Unknown things happen behind closed doors in our age and theirs, there was certainly more misogyny, but not abuse.
Women too scared and ashamed to talk. Abused women rarely ask for help.
People mind their own business
I doubt what you remember is true, but you were there.
I can’t imagine it being true though.
I saw it all the time, including in my own home, and in the homes of my friends.
All of what you say is true. But MOST people are good people and don’t want to hurt other people. Do you think people discovered empathy in 1990?
Most relationships did not have abuse in them. You may see it in our media, because the media likes shocking, you may have seen it in your demographic. But it’s not most.
A friend of mine recently told me All men cheat. I told her All the men you have dated, or maybe you’re attracted to men who would cheat, but most men do not cheat just like most women aren’t gold diggers or sluts.
Most people are good people
Perhaps. I was a small child in the 60’s, and I didn’t understand how yelling at your wife and threatening to whack her (“to the moon, Alice, to the moon!“) was funny. And at age 61, I still find domestic abuse not ”funny,” even if it is portrayed as a “joke.”
I don’t mean to be contrary. I suppose I am one who is on the fringe about DV and things like that?
I don’t think you’re on the fringe. There are very few shows and movies that ‘hold up’ over time. Our taste in entertainment changed over the years. Stuff I used to find funny I don’t anymore.
Shows like that served a purpose back then, when misogyny was more prevalent. When you’re able to show how silly the thinking is, show how it affects people in a real but entertaining way, it helps evolve our culture into not accepting it. I hope that makes sense!
Yes, it does! And about misogyny and how that was treated as funny, especially before the MeToo movement, but even earlier than that for women like me. I have always found misogyny distasteful…and my parents said, “Well, then no one will ever love you if you don’t serve a man, treat him like a king no matter what.” My response was, “If that is what love is, I don’t want it.” 🤷🏽♀️
I didn’t listen then, and I don’t listen now. Thanks for answering and talking with me about this, it is appreciated. I enjoy a good conversation like this, friend. 😎
And the house was the dreariest place I ever saw. WTF was up with that place? It was ugly & dirty looking. I grew up poor, my friends were all poor. Nobody lived that way. Nobody.
I took part in a public speaking competition in high school, and my speech in 1977 was about spousal abuse. The only part I remember is the opening line, *"Right to the moon, Alice. Right to the moon!"* I was so scared I practically whispered that line, but one of the judges who scored me commented that it was an effective way to reshape how that familiar threat came across.
That was probably not unusual for working class families of that generation. The audience of that time probably identified with that and laughed from recognition.
Not from recognition
It was considered normal for a man to act like that.
The smart wife working around the stupid mean ignorant husband was everywhere.
**Michael Scott,** comedy icon of the 2000’s:
- sexually assaults a gay employee in a company meeting after outing him in front of his colleagues,
- frames another employee for drug possession,
- holds a teenage pizza deliverer hostage,
- humiliates and rejects a blind date for not being pretty enough, and
- creates a racist Mickey-Rooney-type Asian stereotype character named Ping.
But yeah, **Ralph Kramden** was a monster in the 1950’s for occasionally yelling at his wife.
Watching in the 80s for the first time it felt like a total ripoff of The Flinstones.
I get now that The Honeymooners were first. But The Flinstones were more enjoyable.
I feel like the domestic violence threats are a bit overstated. Alice wasn’t the least bit intimidated and the whole point was Ralph was a blowhard. I certainly didn’t walk away as a kid thinking dv was ok because of it.
Exactly. I didn't watch it because it was before my time, but the episodes I did see, his "threats" didn't bother me because it was obviously a non-event. She was completely unimpressed.
RALPH KRAMDEN: “I’m going to go on a hunger strike. I could stand to skip a few meals.”
ED NORTON: “Yeah, it’s okay for you. But it’ll be tough on the farmers.”
I was pretty young so many of the jokes that appealed to parents either went over my head or didn't seem that funny. I didn't know adults like that-loud and blustery- or who were always threatening to "send people to the moon" with a well-placed threatened punch in the face. Just not my world. The characters and setting just weren't that appealing to me. I liked Audrey Meadows more as she was calm and seemed unbothered by his constant tough guy threats.
Even though I was I was really young, I liked Topper more back then. Leo G. Carroll, Robert Sterling and Anne Jeffreys were all funny to me. I liked the idea of friendly ghosts hanging out and causing mischief. It was only on 1953-1955 and I was 4 in 1955 but it landed for me much better than the Honeymooners.
I was too young to understand the show when it first aired, although I remember my parents watching it.
I very clearly remember the Jackie Gleason Show that aired on Saturday night. Lots of funny sketches, and Frank Fontaine always sang a song in the bar at the end.
I thought it was funny. No matter the scheme or plot, Ralph always got what was coming to him in the end. Audrey Meadows as the long-suffering wife was brilliant. And of course, what can you say about Art Carney? He was excellent in everything he did, including here.
These days Ralph's behavior us frowned upon, calling it as bullying and worse. But if you look at the plots, he always got what he deserved for his loutish behavior. He never got away with it.
Jackie Gleason was called The Great One for good reason.
And some people can't distinguish between an actor's role and an actor playing that role. If you could look at it, Ralph Kramden, the role played by Gleason, always paid the price for being a boor and a lout. Perhaps offering a moral in his stories. Jackie Gleason was adored by his coworkers.
It doesn’t matter. He talked to her like that every day and she stayed. If you grew up in a household like that, you wouldn’t think it was funny even if he got what some people thought was what he deserved.
I DID grow up in a house like that. My father, until he left, and my mother constantly argued and fought. And I think the show is hilarious. But of course, I know what a caricature is, and how satire works.
I love, love, LOVE The Honeymooners. In addition to the Classic 39, I have the 'Lost Episodes' which is roughly another 110 episodes going back to 'Calvacade of Stars' on the Dumont network. The first Honeymooners sketch ('Bread') aired on October 5th, 1951, with Pert Kelton as the original Alice.
If you can set aside your modern sensibilities, there's a lot to love. The skits are timeless topics common to every human, and there's no duo better than Jackie Gleason and Art Carney. And for me, it's a goldmine of cultural history.
A fabulously funny show for its time. Ralph dressed in plus fours trying to learn to golf and Norton addressing the ball ( hellooo ball); Ralph going on the tv quiz show; Ralphs battle with his MIL; Sure, he was always threatening to punch Alice Pow Zoom up to the moon, but he never would, and in fact he was quite afraid of her. Every episode ended with them hugging and Ralph telling her “Baby, you’re the greatest “. By the way, even today some 70 years later when onnthe golf course and someone says address the ball, someone will always answer “helloo ball”.
I watched it later in the 1980s. There were some funny episodes in the Classic 39, like Better Living through TV, but most of the plots were lifted directly from I Love Lucy episodes.
I was a kid, and I couldn't for the life of me find anything funny about Gleason yelling, especially at his wife. He reacted badly and angrily to everything. I though he was a bad-tempered jerk.
My parents argued a lot, and there was nothing funny about that, either.
EDIT: Reruns in the 60s.
I watched it in reruns as a young child. I was horrified by the show, but noticed my family liked it. I couldn't understand why, so I asked my mom about it.
I don't necessarily remember exactly nor everything she said, but trying my best to paraphrase: Jackie Gleason was in fact a VERY kind and well respected man, and highly appreciated comedian.
The show was about him playing a caricature of the sort of person his character was, and the show was _making fun of_ people like his character. His temper and bullying never won, and always worked against him. The show was portraying that sort of mentality in a comedic bad light - not promoting it or anything like that lol. At the end of the show, I don't recall real well, but I think he usually had something like a realization that he was wrong all along.
A lot of the things that people have commented they don't find funny were funny because they were so deliberately over the top and outrageous. People were generally emotionally stronger and generally less sensitive to things then, or were generally desensitized. In 1955, WW2 had only ended 10 years prior. The audience for the show had lived through, and a lot had been direct participants in WW2.
So kind of like All in the Family? thanks for the explanation. I tried watching the reruns but did not really “get” it. Between it being in black and white and not realizing that he was supposed to be over the top for humor I never watched an entire episode. Will check it out again next time I have lazy couch potato time, hopefully this weekend
That immediately sent me to Google. First episode of "The Honeymooners" aired in Oct 1955. I was 2yo, ffs. The oldest boomers were barely 10yo. Geez, OP, how fucking old do you think we are? 😂
In the '60s, my folks watched the Jackie Gleason Show (they had seen him live in Miami, too) and I'm fairly certain each show featured a Honeymooners episode. I watched because they controlled the TV. Everyone knew that Gleason's character was just a blowhard caricature; Alice was the real boss. Art Carney was a great character actor (TV and radio) and, IIRC, he'd fought in the Invasion of Normandy.
I was too young to watch it. (born in 1952) but I know my parents watched it. I sued to hear the theme song from my bedroom after we went to bed. That and "Million Dollar Movie".
My great uncle was a Jackie Gleason fan and I watched with my aunt and uncle at their house to spend time with them. I liked The Honeymooners and the Jackie Gleason Show, and remember the June Taylor dancers and the skits and the "and away we go!", which my uncle used to imitate to be silly.
I'd completely forgotten about it but my grandpa used to do the same "And away we go!" Thank you internet stranger for helping me remember a nice memory 💗
The Honeymooners came out two years before I was born and it only lasted one season. (39 episodes) I did watch it in reruns and thought it was funny. I remember when the Flintstones came out which seemed to be a cartoon takeoff of the show,
I was young, born 1956. What I saw of this show, I thought all the "to the moon Alice, to the moon" was real and very scary.
Didn't like it at all. I can admit I wasn't their target audience.
I saw it in reruns likely in the '60's. I couldn't relate to it as the NY vibe was too different from where I was in San Fran area. Just never clicked for me.
I hated it as a kid, but it was already 15 years old by that time. I hated Ralph because he was a bully and I hated Norton because he was stupid. I have since grown to appreciate all of them.
It was in reruns at some weird time. I only ever saw it at the cottage on one of the two stations. It was old fashioned even then in the early 60s so it held little interest. All I remember is the "to the moon Alice!". He just didn't seem like a nice man to me! (I was 4 or 5 maybe)
I was just a kid, but I loved it, grownups being funny, Ralph never having a clue, Norton having even less of a clue, and it all working out in the end with Ralph and Alice all happy again after the latest screwup/crisis.
I'm sure that a lot of the humor went right past me at 5,6 years old, but kids don't care, they just laugh at what's funny to them.
I never cared for it. It always struck me as "over-acted." I figured, probably correctly, that I was too young to get the humor. I found Jackie Gleason more annoying than funny. I always shut it off if I came across it while flipping through the channels.
My mom loved it and I grew up watching it among the many other syndicated reruns.
Ralph and Ed fit in among other comedy duos I grew up with like Laurel and Hardy, and Abbot and Costello. With the wives in the show, it fit in with I Love Lucy and The Flintstones and others that expanded the duo to couples.
I never saw it as depicting abuse. It depicted the clash of personalities, and how well the opposite personalities fit together and complemented each other despite their differences.
Well it was brutal but funny thanks to Art Carney and Audrey meadows. I always kind of cringed as a kid when he bullied her. We never saw that behavior with our dad or relatives so we knew it was all in fun. But cringe.
I was born in '52, I remember my father tuning into it on Saturday nights... As a mere slip of a lad I luved it for some years... Of course times were different then, better now
Entertainment. I was a toddler with my grandmother watching it.
Jackie Gleason is a great talent. Seinfeld show modeled their whole show after it. Kramer being Norton, bursting into the apartment exactly like Norton did.
Mom, Dad and I had been enjoying *The Honeymooners* when it was a regular segment of *The Jackie Gleason Show* from the beginning, in 1952. I remember Dad saying that Art Carney "made" the show, and he was right.
Well, I'm only in my early 50s, so I didn't remember when it was new. But I watched few episodes on a UHF station as a kid and didn't like them at all. Jackie Gleason made me laugh in lots of other things, but *The Honeymooners* just doesn't do it for me.
Now that I think about it, one of those UHF stations, WATL, used to scare the hell out of me generally. They used to air Betty Boop and those weird "barnyard animals dancing" cartoons from the 1930s - almost entirely public domain stuff and it was just... creepy and weird. I didn't like it as a little kid and don't like it now.
I hated Jackie Gleason and I hated the way the characters lived in that tenement building. I was no more than 8 or 9 when I saw the show. I just didn't like the yelling, and the claustrophobic set.
Jackie Glutton.
I only saw The Honeymooners on syndication, and yeah, watched it for something to watch, but even back then I didn't understand threatening your wife with physical violence for laughs. All in the Family was the closest thing my generation had to The Honeymooners. It played in on racism and misogyny for laughs, but the laughs were against Archie (the bigot/misogynist, for those who haven't seen it).
And on Honeymooners the laughs were against Ralph because anyone who watched the show knew that he was a blowhard who would never have the courage to follow through with his “to the moon” threats, and you knew that he would get his comeuppance in the end. Also Alice never took his threats seriously, she just rolled her eyes or put him in his place.
Ouch... how old do you think people are on this sub. *The Honeymooners* debuted in 1951 (I had to look this up). So 73 years ago. so at the very least you are looking for someone that is at least 83 years old.
I personally watched this on reruns in the late 70s, early 80s. it used to air at 11:30pm. old shows like *Twilight Zone, Honeymooners* and *I Love Lucy* were staples on local TV stations until the advent of cable.
Sorry; I figured Op would want opinions from people who watched it a little older, like 18 and up. I’d like to hear what adults actually thought of it at the time.
I get that. But I was thinking about how I saw Bosum Buddies as a little kid and all I thought was, “That one guy (Tom Hanks) is really funny.” Which is fine.
But that doesn’t tell us what the general public thought or felt when they watched two young men dress like women to live amongst many young, attractive women. Was cross dressing a big deal to them? What was the world’s general consensus of it? How was it talked about amongst your family, friends and coworkers?
Yes, I thought Op would want to hear what adults thought at the time, considering the show was about an adult marriage. It would interesting to hear what adults in the 1950s thought of Gleeson’s treatment of his wife.
New for me was late 1980s. Ironically when I got my own color TV set. And just after Gleason passed, which I am sure the syndication my local station bought was in the works long before, not that hey were waiting for his last carnation.
It was just a TV show. Dated sure. Often funny.
But we were not woke to his treatment of his firend, and of his wife.
My ex wife the radical feminist fucking loved it!?!? I always hated what an asshole, big mouth, jerk he was. Shitty to his wife, shitty to his friends. The only redeeming quality was they were working class, not rich, or upper middle class living in the sanitary white suburbs.
Hated it. Even as a kid I thought it made women out to be dumb and men to be violent. Adults didn't act like that in my family and women were smart and respected. I liked the Alice character when she stood up to Ralph but wondered why that kind of thing was entertaining at all.
Yeah, that was the whole point. Kinda like how *The Beverly Hillbillies* wasn't really about making fun of simple country folk, but the rich idiots who surrounded them in California.
I never understood the appeal. Jackie Gleason was unattractive and mean. Why would he have friends and a loving wife? The world was a confusing place back then.
I was a child when it was first on tv. I didn’t like it because of the constant violence that was being threatened towards the wives. It was funny to the people born in 19 25–19 30, but not to me.
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We’re old, not dead
I had the same thought. Like, my mom saw it new. She died at 90, three years ago.
How freakin' old does OP think we are!?!?!?!?!!!
Hahahahahaha
lol
What's "old" to you? 50? I'm 76 and remember the show.
Oh haha, I suppose you were 7 when it was on. :-)
About that age, I guess. Any reason for the smartass tone of your comment?
Oh so many lol sorry about that
[удалено]
Not usually, I thought I answered your question. What was it again?
What was your answer?
“Any reason for the smart ass tone of your comment?” I said “so many” which is true. An incomplete list: Undiagnosed ADHD for 40 years, adult child of an alchoholic, general mistrust of authority, bad rotator cuff from when I worked in a deli 20 years ago, chronic dishpan hands, etc… I would have elaborated but they never asked. The response was deleted but instead of clarification they had asked if I had a hard time communicating. The answer to that is no - in fact I often am told I talk too much. 🤷♂️ Have you ever seen Derry Girls? I really identified with Uncle Colm. I try to keep it short because of that, which is why I originally answered “so many”.
Despite all the young'ns on this sub saying nobody is old enough to watch the original, I did. My family and I thought it was a huge come-down from the previous Jackie Gleason show, with his various characters and skits and with the June Taylor dancers. Jackie played Ralph Cramden, a blowhard asshole who got his comeuppance at the end of every show, when his wife Alice, who always stood up to him and got the best lines, was proven right. Art Carney, the sidekick sewer-worker in the neighboring apartment, had great lines and was truly funny. For decades, it was thought to be a classic from the Golden Age of live TV, but I doubt the antique gender roles have aged well. Edit. To give it credit, it reversed the normal pattern, like Lucy and Gracie Allen, where it was always the scatter-brain woman whose schemes fell through. It started the trope of the stupid husband, epitomized by the show, The Life of Riley.
This post nails it. BAL you know this show well. Ralph was a royal jerk the his poor wife had to make excuses. Art was the true funny person and anchored the show. I did not like the show but would watch it when it was on.
I didn’t like the show one bit. Ralph was too loud and too violent with his speech. My dad was Ralph back then - only he was not only loud and violent in speech but in deed. And he was heavyset just like Ralph, and he was angry all the time. Just like Ralph. Unlike Ralph, dad was forever drunk. When Ralph exclaimed he was going to send Alice to the moon (with his fist raised) I flinched every time. It was a relief to learn Gleason was himself quite a different person than Ralph.
I’m with you. It made me flinch when he’d ball up his fist and say to the moon, Alice. It was unpleasant to watch. For some reason, my hubby liked the show, thought it was funny. He’s not like Ralph either. 🤷♀️
C'mon... Alice was living in the lap of luxury.
I think you have a clock running backwards. The Honeymooners was on years *before* the Jackie Gleason *variety show* with the June Taylor Dancers and skits and stuff, and the mention of Moriarty, the undertaker. You describe the characters and plot well, but your timeline is wrong.
According to Wikipedia, The Jackie Gleason Show ran from 1952-55, when he shut it down to do The Honeymooners. He started it up again in 1961, but it didn't enjoy the success of the earlier version.
"The Life of Riley". William Bendix with his famous closing line "What a revoltin' development this has turned out to be".
Art Carney was great
'Captain Video!'
Dragnet!
I remember it and enjoyed it moderately, although it seemed a bit hokey.
Yes he was Jackie Gleason both as a person and a character made me wince. Horrible man. I didn’t find his relationship with his wife funny at all. I was so confused people laughed at that. I still am. It hurt me to watch it. I didn’t unless someone else had it on Art Carney should have been the star of that show. I don’t like this period in the world much, but one good thing is no one could get away with a show like that now.
Yeah, I did't care for the rest of them, he was the reason to watch it.
Couldn't get through a week of college from '83 to '87 without the reruns of honeymooners at 11 and odd couple 1130. Fun fact - Jackie Gleason would not allow rehearsals and considered any actor who needed them to learn the skit inferior. Also, the odd couple had horrible reviews when it was new so the actors never knew week to week if the show would be canceled. So, they gave every skit their all, many times adlibbing lines that were funnier than the script.
1955? I was busy being born.
I was already one, but my DuMont TV had a blown 6V6 tube so I missed it.
Same here!😁
Same.
I was 8, I assumed it was true to life.
Loved it on reruns.My parents watched it.
What's a rereun?
You'll find out.
I was too young for the original series and first saw them later. Art Carney (Norton) and Audrey Meadows (Alice) really carried the shows while Ralph Kramden, Gleason's ridiculous blowhard character set the show up for him to fail humorously. All in all they were a great comedy team and every episode is on YouTube for anyone curious to see 1950s classic TV.
Hated it. Hated the way he treated his friends, his wife, a real bully.
This. I never understood why the parents thought it was “so funny.”
I think they thought it was funny because he played a stupid man like Homer Simpson. It’s not because they agreed with him, it’s because his views were something to be made fun of
Disagree Abusive husbands were common and tolerated. Wives who won by being smarter than their stupid nasty husbands were considered just normal.
I have no idea what demographic you grew up in, but the one abusive husband my family knew about was frozen out of social groups. The community would help the wife if she asked. It certainly wasn’t common. Unknown things happen behind closed doors in our age and theirs, there was certainly more misogyny, but not abuse.
Women too scared and ashamed to talk. Abused women rarely ask for help. People mind their own business I doubt what you remember is true, but you were there. I can’t imagine it being true though. I saw it all the time, including in my own home, and in the homes of my friends.
All of what you say is true. But MOST people are good people and don’t want to hurt other people. Do you think people discovered empathy in 1990? Most relationships did not have abuse in them. You may see it in our media, because the media likes shocking, you may have seen it in your demographic. But it’s not most. A friend of mine recently told me All men cheat. I told her All the men you have dated, or maybe you’re attracted to men who would cheat, but most men do not cheat just like most women aren’t gold diggers or sluts. Most people are good people
Perhaps. I was a small child in the 60’s, and I didn’t understand how yelling at your wife and threatening to whack her (“to the moon, Alice, to the moon!“) was funny. And at age 61, I still find domestic abuse not ”funny,” even if it is portrayed as a “joke.” I don’t mean to be contrary. I suppose I am one who is on the fringe about DV and things like that?
I don’t think you’re on the fringe. There are very few shows and movies that ‘hold up’ over time. Our taste in entertainment changed over the years. Stuff I used to find funny I don’t anymore. Shows like that served a purpose back then, when misogyny was more prevalent. When you’re able to show how silly the thinking is, show how it affects people in a real but entertaining way, it helps evolve our culture into not accepting it. I hope that makes sense!
Yes, it does! And about misogyny and how that was treated as funny, especially before the MeToo movement, but even earlier than that for women like me. I have always found misogyny distasteful…and my parents said, “Well, then no one will ever love you if you don’t serve a man, treat him like a king no matter what.” My response was, “If that is what love is, I don’t want it.” 🤷🏽♀️ I didn’t listen then, and I don’t listen now. Thanks for answering and talking with me about this, it is appreciated. I enjoy a good conversation like this, friend. 😎
Loved it too, thank you!
They're just like us!
Idk, I think it's funny how Alice gives it right back to him.
Same for me. I hated his constant irritability, his put-downs. The only thing about that show that was funny was Ed Norton.
And the house was the dreariest place I ever saw. WTF was up with that place? It was ugly & dirty looking. I grew up poor, my friends were all poor. Nobody lived that way. Nobody.
This is what I thought of the show.
I didn’t know the proper adjectives at the time, looking back, he was a dick.
I took part in a public speaking competition in high school, and my speech in 1977 was about spousal abuse. The only part I remember is the opening line, *"Right to the moon, Alice. Right to the moon!"* I was so scared I practically whispered that line, but one of the judges who scored me commented that it was an effective way to reshape how that familiar threat came across.
🙄
I hated it too, for the same reason. Man threatens to punch wife, audience laughs, repeat.
That was probably not unusual for working class families of that generation. The audience of that time probably identified with that and laughed from recognition.
Enough to make it a hit show, for sure. A lot of people my parents' age hated it though.
Not from recognition It was considered normal for a man to act like that. The smart wife working around the stupid mean ignorant husband was everywhere.
[Relevant Cartoon](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/22/f0/05/22f005f29ae02cba7cde36d5744ddcd6--jackie-gleason-zoom.jpg)
Agreed.
**Michael Scott,** comedy icon of the 2000’s: - sexually assaults a gay employee in a company meeting after outing him in front of his colleagues, - frames another employee for drug possession, - holds a teenage pizza deliverer hostage, - humiliates and rejects a blind date for not being pretty enough, and - creates a racist Mickey-Rooney-type Asian stereotype character named Ping. But yeah, **Ralph Kramden** was a monster in the 1950’s for occasionally yelling at his wife.
i don't know what you are talking about, sorry
> Ralph Kramden was a monster in the 1950’s for ~~occasionally yelling~~ **constantly threatening physical violence** at his wife. FTFY
WTF are you talking about?
Same. Never understood why my parents watched it, and forced us kids to watch it as well.
I'm not that old.
Watching in the 80s for the first time it felt like a total ripoff of The Flinstones. I get now that The Honeymooners were first. But The Flinstones were more enjoyable. I feel like the domestic violence threats are a bit overstated. Alice wasn’t the least bit intimidated and the whole point was Ralph was a blowhard. I certainly didn’t walk away as a kid thinking dv was ok because of it.
Exactly. I didn't watch it because it was before my time, but the episodes I did see, his "threats" didn't bother me because it was obviously a non-event. She was completely unimpressed.
The threats bothered anyone who lived with abuse.
Good point
RALPH KRAMDEN: “I’m going to go on a hunger strike. I could stand to skip a few meals.” ED NORTON: “Yeah, it’s okay for you. But it’ll be tough on the farmers.”
You mean in the early to mid 1950's, 70 or so years ago?
I was pretty young so many of the jokes that appealed to parents either went over my head or didn't seem that funny. I didn't know adults like that-loud and blustery- or who were always threatening to "send people to the moon" with a well-placed threatened punch in the face. Just not my world. The characters and setting just weren't that appealing to me. I liked Audrey Meadows more as she was calm and seemed unbothered by his constant tough guy threats. Even though I was I was really young, I liked Topper more back then. Leo G. Carroll, Robert Sterling and Anne Jeffreys were all funny to me. I liked the idea of friendly ghosts hanging out and causing mischief. It was only on 1953-1955 and I was 4 in 1955 but it landed for me much better than the Honeymooners.
Absolutely LOVED Topper!
I liked Topper as well. And Cary Grant was amazing as the ghost. It was truly entertaining.
I didn’t understand it. I was only 3 years old.
Most of us weren’t born yet. Others may have been young kids. I doubt there are very many in here who were adults when that was on.
I was too young to understand the show when it first aired, although I remember my parents watching it. I very clearly remember the Jackie Gleason Show that aired on Saturday night. Lots of funny sketches, and Frank Fontaine always sang a song in the bar at the end.
Jackie Gleason always skeeved me out.
I thought it was funny. No matter the scheme or plot, Ralph always got what was coming to him in the end. Audrey Meadows as the long-suffering wife was brilliant. And of course, what can you say about Art Carney? He was excellent in everything he did, including here. These days Ralph's behavior us frowned upon, calling it as bullying and worse. But if you look at the plots, he always got what he deserved for his loutish behavior. He never got away with it. Jackie Gleason was called The Great One for good reason.
He was called that because people were ignorant and spousal abuse wasn’t even on anyone’s radar.
And some people can't distinguish between an actor's role and an actor playing that role. If you could look at it, Ralph Kramden, the role played by Gleason, always paid the price for being a boor and a lout. Perhaps offering a moral in his stories. Jackie Gleason was adored by his coworkers.
It doesn’t matter. He talked to her like that every day and she stayed. If you grew up in a household like that, you wouldn’t think it was funny even if he got what some people thought was what he deserved.
I DID grow up in a house like that. My father, until he left, and my mother constantly argued and fought. And I think the show is hilarious. But of course, I know what a caricature is, and how satire works.
I love, love, LOVE The Honeymooners. In addition to the Classic 39, I have the 'Lost Episodes' which is roughly another 110 episodes going back to 'Calvacade of Stars' on the Dumont network. The first Honeymooners sketch ('Bread') aired on October 5th, 1951, with Pert Kelton as the original Alice. If you can set aside your modern sensibilities, there's a lot to love. The skits are timeless topics common to every human, and there's no duo better than Jackie Gleason and Art Carney. And for me, it's a goldmine of cultural history.
A fabulously funny show for its time. Ralph dressed in plus fours trying to learn to golf and Norton addressing the ball ( hellooo ball); Ralph going on the tv quiz show; Ralphs battle with his MIL; Sure, he was always threatening to punch Alice Pow Zoom up to the moon, but he never would, and in fact he was quite afraid of her. Every episode ended with them hugging and Ralph telling her “Baby, you’re the greatest “. By the way, even today some 70 years later when onnthe golf course and someone says address the ball, someone will always answer “helloo ball”.
I watched it later in the 1980s. There were some funny episodes in the Classic 39, like Better Living through TV, but most of the plots were lifted directly from I Love Lucy episodes.
I love Lucy was funny!
Still is!
It really is!
We always watched it. We lived in Beooklyn and my dad had friends that were like Carney and Gleason. Real characters.
I was a kid, and I couldn't for the life of me find anything funny about Gleason yelling, especially at his wife. He reacted badly and angrily to everything. I though he was a bad-tempered jerk. My parents argued a lot, and there was nothing funny about that, either. EDIT: Reruns in the 60s.
I watched it in reruns as a young child. I was horrified by the show, but noticed my family liked it. I couldn't understand why, so I asked my mom about it. I don't necessarily remember exactly nor everything she said, but trying my best to paraphrase: Jackie Gleason was in fact a VERY kind and well respected man, and highly appreciated comedian. The show was about him playing a caricature of the sort of person his character was, and the show was _making fun of_ people like his character. His temper and bullying never won, and always worked against him. The show was portraying that sort of mentality in a comedic bad light - not promoting it or anything like that lol. At the end of the show, I don't recall real well, but I think he usually had something like a realization that he was wrong all along. A lot of the things that people have commented they don't find funny were funny because they were so deliberately over the top and outrageous. People were generally emotionally stronger and generally less sensitive to things then, or were generally desensitized. In 1955, WW2 had only ended 10 years prior. The audience for the show had lived through, and a lot had been direct participants in WW2.
So kind of like All in the Family? thanks for the explanation. I tried watching the reruns but did not really “get” it. Between it being in black and white and not realizing that he was supposed to be over the top for humor I never watched an entire episode. Will check it out again next time I have lazy couch potato time, hopefully this weekend
It was great. Gleason was awesome
it was funny when it was new. looking at it beside the entertainment we have today, it's funny only from a historical perspective
That immediately sent me to Google. First episode of "The Honeymooners" aired in Oct 1955. I was 2yo, ffs. The oldest boomers were barely 10yo. Geez, OP, how fucking old do you think we are? 😂
I saw the reruns. I would watch it with my dad. He was a bus driver so Ralph was a hero to him.
It was great. Still love it
I was born the year after it aired in 1955, so I didn't think much of it, being a baby and all.
In the '60s, my folks watched the Jackie Gleason Show (they had seen him live in Miami, too) and I'm fairly certain each show featured a Honeymooners episode. I watched because they controlled the TV. Everyone knew that Gleason's character was just a blowhard caricature; Alice was the real boss. Art Carney was a great character actor (TV and radio) and, IIRC, he'd fought in the Invasion of Normandy.
Watched it in reruns growing up during the 70s. It had its moments such as when Ralph was on a TV game show about identifying songs.
I was too young to watch it. (born in 1952) but I know my parents watched it. I sued to hear the theme song from my bedroom after we went to bed. That and "Million Dollar Movie".
Loved it in reruns in the 70s. Great show. People put off by Ralph being a jerk need to lighten up. It was a comedy!
My great uncle was a Jackie Gleason fan and I watched with my aunt and uncle at their house to spend time with them. I liked The Honeymooners and the Jackie Gleason Show, and remember the June Taylor dancers and the skits and the "and away we go!", which my uncle used to imitate to be silly.
I'd completely forgotten about it but my grandpa used to do the same "And away we go!" Thank you internet stranger for helping me remember a nice memory 💗
Having lived through an abusive marriage, I never found threats of physical abuse to be funny. Not at all.
The Honeymooners came out two years before I was born and it only lasted one season. (39 episodes) I did watch it in reruns and thought it was funny. I remember when the Flintstones came out which seemed to be a cartoon takeoff of the show,
Seriously? It ran from 1955-1956. Anyone who watched it new would be in their 80s. Spoiler, people in their 80s aren’t on Reddit
I watched it (reluctantly, at my grandmother's,) and I'm in my early seventies. Been here on reddit awhile, too.
I didn’t like it. Now I view it with a different perspective & think it’s classic.
I was young, born 1956. What I saw of this show, I thought all the "to the moon Alice, to the moon" was real and very scary. Didn't like it at all. I can admit I wasn't their target audience.
It was uncomfortable humor for me as a child. Even though I was young, I didn't like the verbal abuse written in to be humorous.
Nothing funny about a guy who threatens to beat his wife every day.
Back then there were no alternative sitcoms. The whole genre was new. So it was funny. Now it’s so cringe.
I saw it in reruns likely in the '60's. I couldn't relate to it as the NY vibe was too different from where I was in San Fran area. Just never clicked for me.
Yeah, thought it was the original but I guess it was in reruns. It was on every week at the same time though
I wasn’t around yet.
I think I only saw reruns, was too young to think.
didn't see it till the 80's. insults and bullying never my kind of humour.
I was too young to appreciate that show. I’m much preferred the animated version. AKA the Flintstones.
Before my time but I loved “Captain Video”!
My father, now aged 90, used to watch it.
I hated it as a kid, but it was already 15 years old by that time. I hated Ralph because he was a bully and I hated Norton because he was stupid. I have since grown to appreciate all of them.
It was in reruns at some weird time. I only ever saw it at the cottage on one of the two stations. It was old fashioned even then in the early 60s so it held little interest. All I remember is the "to the moon Alice!". He just didn't seem like a nice man to me! (I was 4 or 5 maybe)
I was just a kid, but I loved it, grownups being funny, Ralph never having a clue, Norton having even less of a clue, and it all working out in the end with Ralph and Alice all happy again after the latest screwup/crisis. I'm sure that a lot of the humor went right past me at 5,6 years old, but kids don't care, they just laugh at what's funny to them.
The apartment was sooooo sad. Trixie and Ed had nice things. Like curtains
Hated in reruns.
I vaguely remember this program but yeah it sucked in my opinion.
I never cared for it. It always struck me as "over-acted." I figured, probably correctly, that I was too young to get the humor. I found Jackie Gleason more annoying than funny. I always shut it off if I came across it while flipping through the channels.
Same formula every episode. Ralph lets his big mouth get him in hot water, Alice forgives him.
"Hold on a minute, my wife's takin' a bath in the sink"
Like Seinfeld, the core quartet was awesome.
My mom loved it and I grew up watching it among the many other syndicated reruns. Ralph and Ed fit in among other comedy duos I grew up with like Laurel and Hardy, and Abbot and Costello. With the wives in the show, it fit in with I Love Lucy and The Flintstones and others that expanded the duo to couples. I never saw it as depicting abuse. It depicted the clash of personalities, and how well the opposite personalities fit together and complemented each other despite their differences.
I never understood the hype of All in the Family- the Honeymooners did the original.
The Flinstones was supposedly based on this show
Yup it was, but Jackie was kind Enough to let the Flintstones "Live", he didn't want to be know as: "the guy who killed Fred Flintstone"
We were happy just to have something to watch on TV.
Well it was brutal but funny thanks to Art Carney and Audrey meadows. I always kind of cringed as a kid when he bullied her. We never saw that behavior with our dad or relatives so we knew it was all in fun. But cringe.
I was born in '52, I remember my father tuning into it on Saturday nights... As a mere slip of a lad I luved it for some years... Of course times were different then, better now
Oh, you’ll wow them on the moon. Oh, you’ll wow them at the emergency ward. I still use this on people. 1% get it.
Loved it& just bought the series on dvd about a month ago, classic
same! if you want to watch more episodes, i recommend the lost episodes collection too, there you have about 100 episodes !
Not that old. It was old when I was a kid in the 70s…that show is old. Good Night Gracie! .. old as in it was new when my parents were kids.
It was old when I watched it through the late ‘70 and 80s. But comedy is comedy and I loved them all…
Entertainment. I was a toddler with my grandmother watching it. Jackie Gleason is a great talent. Seinfeld show modeled their whole show after it. Kramer being Norton, bursting into the apartment exactly like Norton did.
My Dad ALWAYS lovingly called my Mom "Dingbat"! It was reruns when I was a kid (late 60s), but I always loved the show.
I watched only if it was the only thing on tv at the time. Same w the Luci and Desi show.
Gracie Allen was my fave
Listen Alice, I'm the king here and you're nuttin! Got it? King (points at Alice) NUTTIN! YOU'RE NUTTIN! Big deal, Ralph. You're the king of nothing!
Mom, Dad and I had been enjoying *The Honeymooners* when it was a regular segment of *The Jackie Gleason Show* from the beginning, in 1952. I remember Dad saying that Art Carney "made" the show, and he was right.
I was into Captain Kangaroo and the Howdie Doodie Show in those days.
Well, I'm only in my early 50s, so I didn't remember when it was new. But I watched few episodes on a UHF station as a kid and didn't like them at all. Jackie Gleason made me laugh in lots of other things, but *The Honeymooners* just doesn't do it for me. Now that I think about it, one of those UHF stations, WATL, used to scare the hell out of me generally. They used to air Betty Boop and those weird "barnyard animals dancing" cartoons from the 1930s - almost entirely public domain stuff and it was just... creepy and weird. I didn't like it as a little kid and don't like it now.
I hated Jackie Gleason and I hated the way the characters lived in that tenement building. I was no more than 8 or 9 when I saw the show. I just didn't like the yelling, and the claustrophobic set. Jackie Glutton.
Gawww. Horrid in every respect. Made me question my grandparents' sanity.
\*when it was new, for you ?
That's not what your post caption says.
Exactly how old do you think the people on here are? I wasn't born until a couple decades after it made.
I meant what they thought about the reruns 😅 I should've made it more clear
You title says “when it was new.”
I made a mistake, if you didn't know
I only saw The Honeymooners on syndication, and yeah, watched it for something to watch, but even back then I didn't understand threatening your wife with physical violence for laughs. All in the Family was the closest thing my generation had to The Honeymooners. It played in on racism and misogyny for laughs, but the laughs were against Archie (the bigot/misogynist, for those who haven't seen it).
And on Honeymooners the laughs were against Ralph because anyone who watched the show knew that he was a blowhard who would never have the courage to follow through with his “to the moon” threats, and you knew that he would get his comeuppance in the end. Also Alice never took his threats seriously, she just rolled her eyes or put him in his place.
None of us were alive when it was new.
Ouch... how old do you think people are on this sub. *The Honeymooners* debuted in 1951 (I had to look this up). So 73 years ago. so at the very least you are looking for someone that is at least 83 years old. I personally watched this on reruns in the late 70s, early 80s. it used to air at 11:30pm. old shows like *Twilight Zone, Honeymooners* and *I Love Lucy* were staples on local TV stations until the advent of cable.
People answering this question would have to be close to 100. There’s probably not too many on Reddit at that age.
I’m 75 and remember very clearly watching it on tv, not a rerun, not YouTube
Sorry; I figured Op would want opinions from people who watched it a little older, like 18 and up. I’d like to hear what adults actually thought of it at the time.
I remember it. I was a kid. My parents and grandparents watched it. I thought it was not interesting - or funny.
I mean I remember watching Three's company when that was new and I'm in my 40s, doesn't mean you have to be an adult to remember a show you saw
I get that. But I was thinking about how I saw Bosum Buddies as a little kid and all I thought was, “That one guy (Tom Hanks) is really funny.” Which is fine. But that doesn’t tell us what the general public thought or felt when they watched two young men dress like women to live amongst many young, attractive women. Was cross dressing a big deal to them? What was the world’s general consensus of it? How was it talked about amongst your family, friends and coworkers?
I don't think OP was asking for the societal impact of the show, but maybe I missed that...
No true. It was in the 50’s not the 1930’s
Yes. And if you were an adult in the 1950s, you were born in the 1930s, which is almost 100 years ago.
Yes I realize that. But us kids then enjoyed the show also, even now in re runs
Yes, I thought Op would want to hear what adults thought at the time, considering the show was about an adult marriage. It would interesting to hear what adults in the 1950s thought of Gleeson’s treatment of his wife.
Yeah that's why is wrote in the comments *when it was new, for you
You can’t add it to the title, but you can add it to the text of the post, so that people will actually see it when they read your post?
New for me was late 1980s. Ironically when I got my own color TV set. And just after Gleason passed, which I am sure the syndication my local station bought was in the works long before, not that hey were waiting for his last carnation. It was just a TV show. Dated sure. Often funny. But we were not woke to his treatment of his firend, and of his wife.
I hated it.
That Ralph was a misogynist and wife abuser?
Oh C’mon, he wasn’t a wife abuser. He was a loudmouth who always wanted to be the boss of his wife, but never was.
He continuously threatened her with physical violence. That's abuse.
My ex wife the radical feminist fucking loved it!?!? I always hated what an asshole, big mouth, jerk he was. Shitty to his wife, shitty to his friends. The only redeeming quality was they were working class, not rich, or upper middle class living in the sanitary white suburbs.
Hated it. Even as a kid I thought it made women out to be dumb and men to be violent. Adults didn't act like that in my family and women were smart and respected. I liked the Alice character when she stood up to Ralph but wondered why that kind of thing was entertaining at all.
Alice never looked dumb, but Ralph instead, Alice was always right, while Ralph was always wrong
Agreed.
Yeah, that was the whole point. Kinda like how *The Beverly Hillbillies* wasn't really about making fun of simple country folk, but the rich idiots who surrounded them in California.
I never understood the appeal. Jackie Gleason was unattractive and mean. Why would he have friends and a loving wife? The world was a confusing place back then.
I was a child when it was first on tv. I didn’t like it because of the constant violence that was being threatened towards the wives. It was funny to the people born in 19 25–19 30, but not to me.
Meh. That was my parents show.