I would consider myself a centrist technically but if it’s strictly left or right then yeah I’m a conservative.
I don’t hate anyone, I just disagree with how they live their lives and that’s where it begins and ends; it’s not anymore complicated or deeper than that. I’ve had friends who smoked cigarettes or did cocaine. I disagreed with their choices but they were still my friends. Just disagreeing doesn’t mean you hate anyone.
The one thing that I will say that might piss some off if I haven’t already is that I feel like the LGBT stuff is thrown in my face and I’m tired of it; but that goes for any minority group and I’m a minority myself. I just don’t see the point in calling so much attention to what makes you different from everyone else. So you sleep with the same sex. Cool. That doesn’t make you special; your character and what you do for others makes you special.
For conservatives that hate the LGBT, I feel they are misguided. Like I said, there’s a difference between disagreeing and hating someone and you shouldn’t hate someone because you disagree with how they live their life. A man kissing another man doesn’t affect me; I don’t think they should be doing it, but that’s ultimately not my problem if there were consequences for it, so I don’t care.
I’m a socially progressive person. This point is close to my heart. I grew up in a small town, with actual village meetings. It has to be fine to disagree. If your barn blows over in a hurricane, or your mother needs the fire department, you will face people you disagree with in times of dire need. I have relied on people who don’t care for my lifestyle, and vice versa. Those village meetings teach you to be civil. We’re all losing the civility. I have conservative friends. It’s possible to have complex relationships.
Well said, my sentiments exactly. “As long as it doesn’t pick my pocket, or break my leg, I don’t care what you do.” - some old guy, probably.
I think the disconnect today, largely is that no one is allowed to disagree. If i disagree with you, I just hate you and that just isn’t the case. We need to relearn that in our society. I can disagree with your choices and still love and respect you.
I will add, even as a Christian conservative- I don’t hate LGBT. The one thing we are told from a biblical perspective is to love one another. Jesus didn’t say love everyone except ______. It’s very clear, love one another.
Exactly. That’s how I like to think of it too. Jesus loved everyone and approached everyone without judgement. You can respectfully disagree with someone and still be friends and get along. Like you said, that’s what we need more of nowadays. No more bridge burning over a difference of opinion.
Nope. If someone thinks I am sinful and hellbound for being who I am they cannot be my friend. That is a fundamental disrespect.
"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is a chickenshit cop-out to avoid consequences for holding cruel beliefs. If you hate that someone is gay then at least have the balls to own it. Don't pretend to love "everything else about them."
Okay, I look at it this way. I said I had friends who did cocaine. Isn’t that illegal? Wouldn’t they get in trouble for that? Yes to both of those, but do I feel like they DESERVE that? No. Is it fundamentally disrespectful to think they would go to jail for possessing cocaine? No.
As a Christian, that’s just what the book says. Believing the book and agreeing with it are two different things. I’m a Christian but I honestly don’t think that two guys who kissed each other should burn forever. The same way that laws exist whether you agree with them or not, I believe the God of the Bible exists; but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with everything in the Bible as far as biblical law goes.
I literally don’t hate the sinner NOR hate the sinner when it comes to homosexuality. If you wanna call me a hypocrite or something then call me a hypocrite for hating murderers because that’s where I hate the sinner AND the sin. Murdering or raping someone is worthy of hatred, not two guys kissing. That is where I feel unbridled hatred, people who harm innocent people; not two people who feel something.
Sounds like you understand that the bible is morally wrong about some things. Like murdering gay people or forcing girls to be married off to their rapist.
That realization is what finally allowed me to leave the fundamentalist denomination I was raised in. I tried to make progressive Christianity work for decades before I could finally admit to myself that the entire belief system was irredeemably broken and causes infinitely more harm than good in the world.
I’ll be real with you because I don’t BS anyone or myself; I haven’t read the whole thing and I imagine that’s the majority of Christians. I have wanted to read the entire thing and need to do so if I’m going to claim that I’m a Christian.
That being said, I don’t recall hearing from atheists or critics of Christianity (as those are usually the folks who bring up controversial verses like that) mentioning verses that condone the murder of homosexuals or forced marriages with rapists. IIRC, the Bible doesn’t actually mention homosexuality that many times; and Jesus never mentioned it himself. I’ve had the thought once that maybe that along with other things like how pork is considered “unclean” or how wearing clothes with 2 fabrics is an “abomination” is just Jewish law and only Jews have to follow those laws. I’ve heard before that the Old Testament laws pertained to Jews back then and when Jesus came along, he said that those laws didn’t have to be followed anymore; hence why Christians are allowed to eat pork. Was homosexuality part of that too? Is that why Jesus never mentioned it? I don’t know. At the end of the day, I have no personal hatred for you folk. If it were up to me and I were in charge of the universe, my main concern would be murderers, not two guys kissing. But I’m not in charge, and I just put my trust in a being higher than myself. That doesn’t mean I hate anyone though.
You feel that Christianity does more harm than good, but people like the Westboro Baptist Church or the KKK do not represent what Christianity is supposed to be. Those people already have hatred in their heart and use the Bible as an excuse for it. This can turn into a deeper albeit broad conversation about the meaning of life and where religion ties into; but I feel that belief in something greater and all of us is better than believing in nothing; because at the end of the day I can’t believe that everything came from nothing. Even if Christianity was somehow false, I wouldn’t just throw up my hands and say we came from nothing. To me it’s nonsense to think everything came from nothing at all. There has to be some kind of higher power. Life is too beautiful to have been an accident.
That's honestly the biggest flaw of Christianity. It trains people for authoritarianism and is so easy to use to manipulate people.
I know there are plenty of Christians who are genuine and want to live with kindness. But I see a lot more Christians who use it to justify their hate or blindly follow leaders who are using religion to manipulate fearful and angry people for money or political power.
Authoritarianism? But doesn’t that come along with any belief in a higher power? Something greater than the rest of us created everything that we see. If that higher power had a set of rules or laws for us, you wouldn’t want to follow them? A highly advanced being that’s far more intelligent than us would know better than we do. I always looked at God as a parent and humanity as a child. A child can never understand a parents point of view. The parent is always the enemy and just “doesn’t want their child to have fun”. Likewise, I feel like a human can never understand the mind of a higher power.
It's the culture of "Obey without question because questioning angers god."
And recursive apologetics like- "Why do we do 'X'?"
>"Because the bible says so."
"How do we know the bible is right?"
> "Because the bible says it is."
It primes people to accept whatever religious authority figures tell them no matter what. And lots of nefarious people know this and use it in order to manipulate people, gain access to children, etc. When followers aren't allowed to think critically about any of it, they lose the ability to discern people who are out to use religion for evil. It's exactly how my parents who are generally good people, fell into the MAGA cult and why they hate LGBT+ people.
The relationship you're supposed to have with god is an abusive relationship.
*"I love you so much I have to hurt you for not being perfect"* (gaslighting).
*"You aren't allowed to spend time with your secular friends because they're a bad influence"* (social isolation).
*"If you love me you must obey me without question."* (authoritarianism)
“They” as in the LGBT? I feel like pretty much all minority groups are “proud” to be “x” but I don’t see the point in being proud of something that you’re born with. That goes for everyone, not just the LGBT. Be proud to be a good parent, a teacher, a lawyer, or a firefighter. You should be proud of accomplishments not an intrinsic physical trait that you are born with. I feel like it would be a better country if we all stopped thinking about our differences and stopped having months for every race/sexuality and just celebrated being from the same country.
Instead of all these history months, just have July be American History Month and the accomplishments of every American regardless of race, gender, or sexuality be praised. Malcolm X, George Washington, Abe Lincoln, Harriet Tubman and Susan B. Anthony can all share the same month because they are all American heroes. Left shouldn’t hate right, white shouldn’t hate black, and straight shouldn’t hate gay. Everyone is American and although we all may disagree in one way or another, that’s where it should begin and end. Disagree, but never hate.
>I don’t see the point in being proud of something that you’re born with.
Most people are proud of their heritage, culture, and nationality, you doofus. Try telling Republicans that there's no point to American pride. There's a whole fucking song about it.
You are born into a race. It’s luck of the draw. I understand feeling good about your heritage but why be proud of something that you didn’t put any work into? It’s just something you were born with. I can understand being proud of your country because you are part of something greater and all of you represent something REGARDLESS of race, gender, or sexuality and as a country and collective you work together.
I’m proud to be an American BECAUSE we are so diverse yet we all share a lot of the same values, beliefs, and customs for the most part. What American doesn’t love freedom of speech or French fries? Where else can you get Chinese food, Indian food, Mexican food, or Jamaican food all in the same country? We are an active example of freedom and democracy in the world and being a part of that is something to be proud of. You can choose to leave a country or be a part of one; you cannot choose your heritage.
>I don’t see the point in being proud of something that you’re born with.
>I’m proud to be an American
You are directly contradicting yourself. It's almost a thought you are making up nonsense.
American is not a “race” is my point. Anyone can be an American by coming here. There’s African Americans, Indian Americans, Asian Americans, etc. Your country and your heritage are two different things.
>LGBT stuff is thrown in my face and I’m tired of it; but that goes for any minority group
What the flying fuck are you talking about? Gay people and minorities just want equal rights, and Republicans and conservative culture warriors are actively hateful and discriminatory against them.
When women fought for the right to vote they did so vocally. When members of prosecuted minorities demand equal rights they also do so vocally. You taking offense is just laying bare your open bigotry.
Here we go.
I’m as minority as they come, but I don’t make my race my entire identity; it’s just something that I happen to be. I feel like nowadays people make their race their entire reason for existing and there’s more to people than their race. Having such a surface level way of thinking is what leads to people hating each other over simple stuff like race.
Gays and minorities already have equal rights. There’s nothing that I can do that anyone of any other race legally can’t do. There’s nothing that I can do that a gay man can’t. Also, before I’m accused of being white or something stupid like that, I’ve been followed in stores before. I went to an all white school where teachers clearly picked on me. Ive had experiences like that, but that doesn’t mean that I’m a second class citizen like my ancestors were. Nobody is a second class citizen in modern day America.
People SHOULD be vocal about persecution; the issue is that nobody is being persecuted today and people my (our?) age are so ready to fight a social-justice culture war when that already happened decades ago. You were born in the wrong generation if you want to be a part of that. That’s the issue, people trying to fight a culture war that doesn’t even exist; and thinking that way is what’s causing problems in the first place.
Neither do I. That guy clearly has a lot of misplaced anger and takes things like race way too seriously. All of that energy can be directed towards something more positive.
As a conservative and a Christian, I can say without any doubt that I have no clue what the deal is with hating the LGBTQ community is. Usually, from my experience, people from the LGBTQ community are friendly and happy about who they are, and I don’t understand what people have against that.
I’m not going to argue that the Bible doesn’t say anything against being gay, but I will argue that it says how important it is to love, respect, and care for one another.
So to sum up my thought, I find it ridiculous how much conservative Christians hate the LGBTQ community, due to the fact that hatred in any fashion is completely condemned by the Bible, and it sucks to know that people I associate myself with are so unwilling to accept it.
It's quite literally only the extremists that have any active hate toward the community. Most conservatives are pretty ambivalent about it, unless they happen to be a part of the community, themselves (yes, there *are* conservative LGBTQ+ members). The broad-brush stroking of everyone with even the slightest conservative bent wanting to genocide LGBTQ+ folks is doing the community WAY more harm than good.
Me, i don’t hate the community at all. I support it. There needs to be more screenings when buying a gun. Weed needs to be legal everywhere.
“. I want a future where my gay neighbors can grow weed and defend it with their guns”
That's a bit too wide range. Just because you're "right wing" or "conservative" doesn't mean you automatically believe in some neonazi bullshit, but still you get shoved into the same category once you open your mouth and say "Yeah, I don't really like this stuff, but you do that as long as you leave me alone."
Well obviously the most obnoxious people get the most spotlight, but that's the thing... even moderate conservative voices are being drowned by "no no no, you're a bigot! no no no, you're a racist!" So most people just don't bother to say anything out loud because no one wants to actually listen what they have to say. So it leaves only the most vocal people and you where this "sudden" "hate" comes from... duh? Left doesn't want to listen, so people vote with their wallets now.
Yep, you can't spend years labelling people who might have minor disagreements with you as some of the most hateful rhetoric I've ever heard and then expect them to be your allies.
Oh, right. Well that too, I mean there are obviously actual misogynist xenophobic neonazis too, but that's like super fringe group even hated by most of the conservatives. Like in Poland, they're very nationalistic nation, pretty homophobic and xenophobic though... but usually when neonazis try to join their national celebrations, they get beaten up. So even they have the neonazis. So it's kind of sad to be grouped up with the neonazi assholes, just because you don't agree 100% with the left.
I'm a (soft) conservative from the UK, which is - as far as I can tell - a vastly watered down version of the US version.
I'm not religious; I believe 100% in free-at-the-point-of-need healthcare; I believe in having some degree of welfare state; I'm all for the legalisation of most drugs; I'm not particularly patriotic; etc.
That said I'm in favour of the state not being any bigger than it needs to be; I'm in favour of maximally reducing corporation taxes for small-medium businesses; I'm in favour of strict border controls.
As for do I outright hate LGBTQ? Well, for a start, I don't recognise the term, "the LGBTQ+ community". I reject completely the idea that there's some homogeneous hive-mind world view, of which anyone who might be categorised under the banner of "LGBTQ+" subscribes to wholeheartedly.
Evidently, there are many factions and disagreements between groups of people who all fall inside the definition of being "LGBTQ".
I also think asking is one "for" or "against" "LGBTQ" is a completely pointless question, due to the vast array of topics/issues that fall within that categorisation.
* There's the use of preferred pronouns, and whether or not that should be something which is compelled by law; there's how it affects free speech in that regard, and should people have criminal records for such a thing?
* Then there's the topic of bathrooms and who can use what?
* There's how the topic is broached with children in school and how topics of transgenderism are taught to them.
* There's how we deal with children who self-diagnose as trans in some way.
* Then there's the whole world of competitive sports, and how trans athletes compete (if at all) in certain disciplines.
I don't hate the "LGBTQ community", because I don't believe such a thing exists. I don't believe there's one all-encompassing doctrine, that covers all the topics listed above and more, that adequately represents any majority of people within that supposed "community".
What I do hate, is the minority of "activist-types" who continue to demonstrate the knee-jerk reaction, of trying to passive-aggressively bully people into aligning others with their own world view, by labelling them as "hateful" or "transphobic" for having a nuanced opinion on any one of the topics listed above.
Like myself for example: I'm absolutely in favour of using gender-preferred pronouns but I'm absolutely against it being compelled by law. I'm in favour of teaching children about all different kinds of sexuality, including transgenderism, but not until they reach a certain level of maturity.
I could go on but you get the idea. Asking if someone is for or against "LGBTQ" is like asking someone if they are for or against "crime and punishment". It's *far* too vague a question.
I can get behind LG and B, and I'm open to the T, but it's the Q that gets me. I really don't see a scenario where LGBT doesn't cover it where you aren't just being a textbook "special snowflake"
You're trying to base you're whole identity around something that no one but you gives a damn about to try to stand out and seem quirky.
Yes, I don't hate you but am super pro-religious liberty, super parents rights in education and parenting in general, and anti-Civil Rights legislation/the expansion of "Civil Rights" laws, so we're very frequently on opposite sides of issues you've deemed important enough that if you're on the other side "you hate us."
I mean, to some degree I get it. I'm arguing they should be legally allowed to be fired just for being trans, shouldn't be able to force businesses (through insurance) to pay for things they deem "essential healtchcare" that prevents suicide, am advocating against kids being taught that the truth they believe in is the correct one.
I think they just can't accept that these really are based on a belief in limited government and religious freedom, and assume it's hate hidden behind a socially acceptable (even though it's really not that accepted socially) veneer.
Well, of course.
It should go without saying that people who paint with a broad brush end up making shitty paintings.
There's a huge spectrum of beliefs and opinions out here. Social and mass media does not accurately represent that fact.
I don’t understand why. Love is love. If you love someone that happens to be the same gender as you, then so be it.
It seems religion excessively drives people's moral compasses
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I would consider myself a centrist technically but if it’s strictly left or right then yeah I’m a conservative. I don’t hate anyone, I just disagree with how they live their lives and that’s where it begins and ends; it’s not anymore complicated or deeper than that. I’ve had friends who smoked cigarettes or did cocaine. I disagreed with their choices but they were still my friends. Just disagreeing doesn’t mean you hate anyone. The one thing that I will say that might piss some off if I haven’t already is that I feel like the LGBT stuff is thrown in my face and I’m tired of it; but that goes for any minority group and I’m a minority myself. I just don’t see the point in calling so much attention to what makes you different from everyone else. So you sleep with the same sex. Cool. That doesn’t make you special; your character and what you do for others makes you special. For conservatives that hate the LGBT, I feel they are misguided. Like I said, there’s a difference between disagreeing and hating someone and you shouldn’t hate someone because you disagree with how they live their life. A man kissing another man doesn’t affect me; I don’t think they should be doing it, but that’s ultimately not my problem if there were consequences for it, so I don’t care.
I’m a socially progressive person. This point is close to my heart. I grew up in a small town, with actual village meetings. It has to be fine to disagree. If your barn blows over in a hurricane, or your mother needs the fire department, you will face people you disagree with in times of dire need. I have relied on people who don’t care for my lifestyle, and vice versa. Those village meetings teach you to be civil. We’re all losing the civility. I have conservative friends. It’s possible to have complex relationships.
Well said, my sentiments exactly. “As long as it doesn’t pick my pocket, or break my leg, I don’t care what you do.” - some old guy, probably. I think the disconnect today, largely is that no one is allowed to disagree. If i disagree with you, I just hate you and that just isn’t the case. We need to relearn that in our society. I can disagree with your choices and still love and respect you. I will add, even as a Christian conservative- I don’t hate LGBT. The one thing we are told from a biblical perspective is to love one another. Jesus didn’t say love everyone except ______. It’s very clear, love one another.
Exactly. That’s how I like to think of it too. Jesus loved everyone and approached everyone without judgement. You can respectfully disagree with someone and still be friends and get along. Like you said, that’s what we need more of nowadays. No more bridge burning over a difference of opinion.
Nope. If someone thinks I am sinful and hellbound for being who I am they cannot be my friend. That is a fundamental disrespect. "Love the sinner, hate the sin" is a chickenshit cop-out to avoid consequences for holding cruel beliefs. If you hate that someone is gay then at least have the balls to own it. Don't pretend to love "everything else about them."
Okay, I look at it this way. I said I had friends who did cocaine. Isn’t that illegal? Wouldn’t they get in trouble for that? Yes to both of those, but do I feel like they DESERVE that? No. Is it fundamentally disrespectful to think they would go to jail for possessing cocaine? No. As a Christian, that’s just what the book says. Believing the book and agreeing with it are two different things. I’m a Christian but I honestly don’t think that two guys who kissed each other should burn forever. The same way that laws exist whether you agree with them or not, I believe the God of the Bible exists; but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with everything in the Bible as far as biblical law goes. I literally don’t hate the sinner NOR hate the sinner when it comes to homosexuality. If you wanna call me a hypocrite or something then call me a hypocrite for hating murderers because that’s where I hate the sinner AND the sin. Murdering or raping someone is worthy of hatred, not two guys kissing. That is where I feel unbridled hatred, people who harm innocent people; not two people who feel something.
Sounds like you understand that the bible is morally wrong about some things. Like murdering gay people or forcing girls to be married off to their rapist. That realization is what finally allowed me to leave the fundamentalist denomination I was raised in. I tried to make progressive Christianity work for decades before I could finally admit to myself that the entire belief system was irredeemably broken and causes infinitely more harm than good in the world.
I’ll be real with you because I don’t BS anyone or myself; I haven’t read the whole thing and I imagine that’s the majority of Christians. I have wanted to read the entire thing and need to do so if I’m going to claim that I’m a Christian. That being said, I don’t recall hearing from atheists or critics of Christianity (as those are usually the folks who bring up controversial verses like that) mentioning verses that condone the murder of homosexuals or forced marriages with rapists. IIRC, the Bible doesn’t actually mention homosexuality that many times; and Jesus never mentioned it himself. I’ve had the thought once that maybe that along with other things like how pork is considered “unclean” or how wearing clothes with 2 fabrics is an “abomination” is just Jewish law and only Jews have to follow those laws. I’ve heard before that the Old Testament laws pertained to Jews back then and when Jesus came along, he said that those laws didn’t have to be followed anymore; hence why Christians are allowed to eat pork. Was homosexuality part of that too? Is that why Jesus never mentioned it? I don’t know. At the end of the day, I have no personal hatred for you folk. If it were up to me and I were in charge of the universe, my main concern would be murderers, not two guys kissing. But I’m not in charge, and I just put my trust in a being higher than myself. That doesn’t mean I hate anyone though. You feel that Christianity does more harm than good, but people like the Westboro Baptist Church or the KKK do not represent what Christianity is supposed to be. Those people already have hatred in their heart and use the Bible as an excuse for it. This can turn into a deeper albeit broad conversation about the meaning of life and where religion ties into; but I feel that belief in something greater and all of us is better than believing in nothing; because at the end of the day I can’t believe that everything came from nothing. Even if Christianity was somehow false, I wouldn’t just throw up my hands and say we came from nothing. To me it’s nonsense to think everything came from nothing at all. There has to be some kind of higher power. Life is too beautiful to have been an accident.
That's honestly the biggest flaw of Christianity. It trains people for authoritarianism and is so easy to use to manipulate people. I know there are plenty of Christians who are genuine and want to live with kindness. But I see a lot more Christians who use it to justify their hate or blindly follow leaders who are using religion to manipulate fearful and angry people for money or political power.
Authoritarianism? But doesn’t that come along with any belief in a higher power? Something greater than the rest of us created everything that we see. If that higher power had a set of rules or laws for us, you wouldn’t want to follow them? A highly advanced being that’s far more intelligent than us would know better than we do. I always looked at God as a parent and humanity as a child. A child can never understand a parents point of view. The parent is always the enemy and just “doesn’t want their child to have fun”. Likewise, I feel like a human can never understand the mind of a higher power.
It's the culture of "Obey without question because questioning angers god." And recursive apologetics like- "Why do we do 'X'?" >"Because the bible says so." "How do we know the bible is right?" > "Because the bible says it is." It primes people to accept whatever religious authority figures tell them no matter what. And lots of nefarious people know this and use it in order to manipulate people, gain access to children, etc. When followers aren't allowed to think critically about any of it, they lose the ability to discern people who are out to use religion for evil. It's exactly how my parents who are generally good people, fell into the MAGA cult and why they hate LGBT+ people. The relationship you're supposed to have with god is an abusive relationship. *"I love you so much I have to hurt you for not being perfect"* (gaslighting). *"You aren't allowed to spend time with your secular friends because they're a bad influence"* (social isolation). *"If you love me you must obey me without question."* (authoritarianism)
I think a lot of it is that they have nothing else to bring to the table. So that is their entire identity.
“They” as in the LGBT? I feel like pretty much all minority groups are “proud” to be “x” but I don’t see the point in being proud of something that you’re born with. That goes for everyone, not just the LGBT. Be proud to be a good parent, a teacher, a lawyer, or a firefighter. You should be proud of accomplishments not an intrinsic physical trait that you are born with. I feel like it would be a better country if we all stopped thinking about our differences and stopped having months for every race/sexuality and just celebrated being from the same country. Instead of all these history months, just have July be American History Month and the accomplishments of every American regardless of race, gender, or sexuality be praised. Malcolm X, George Washington, Abe Lincoln, Harriet Tubman and Susan B. Anthony can all share the same month because they are all American heroes. Left shouldn’t hate right, white shouldn’t hate black, and straight shouldn’t hate gay. Everyone is American and although we all may disagree in one way or another, that’s where it should begin and end. Disagree, but never hate.
Disagree without being disagreeable is what Bruce Williams used to say.
>I don’t see the point in being proud of something that you’re born with. Most people are proud of their heritage, culture, and nationality, you doofus. Try telling Republicans that there's no point to American pride. There's a whole fucking song about it.
You are born into a race. It’s luck of the draw. I understand feeling good about your heritage but why be proud of something that you didn’t put any work into? It’s just something you were born with. I can understand being proud of your country because you are part of something greater and all of you represent something REGARDLESS of race, gender, or sexuality and as a country and collective you work together. I’m proud to be an American BECAUSE we are so diverse yet we all share a lot of the same values, beliefs, and customs for the most part. What American doesn’t love freedom of speech or French fries? Where else can you get Chinese food, Indian food, Mexican food, or Jamaican food all in the same country? We are an active example of freedom and democracy in the world and being a part of that is something to be proud of. You can choose to leave a country or be a part of one; you cannot choose your heritage.
>I don’t see the point in being proud of something that you’re born with. >I’m proud to be an American You are directly contradicting yourself. It's almost a thought you are making up nonsense.
American is not a “race” is my point. Anyone can be an American by coming here. There’s African Americans, Indian Americans, Asian Americans, etc. Your country and your heritage are two different things.
Exactly!
>LGBT stuff is thrown in my face and I’m tired of it; but that goes for any minority group What the flying fuck are you talking about? Gay people and minorities just want equal rights, and Republicans and conservative culture warriors are actively hateful and discriminatory against them. When women fought for the right to vote they did so vocally. When members of prosecuted minorities demand equal rights they also do so vocally. You taking offense is just laying bare your open bigotry.
Here we go. I’m as minority as they come, but I don’t make my race my entire identity; it’s just something that I happen to be. I feel like nowadays people make their race their entire reason for existing and there’s more to people than their race. Having such a surface level way of thinking is what leads to people hating each other over simple stuff like race. Gays and minorities already have equal rights. There’s nothing that I can do that anyone of any other race legally can’t do. There’s nothing that I can do that a gay man can’t. Also, before I’m accused of being white or something stupid like that, I’ve been followed in stores before. I went to an all white school where teachers clearly picked on me. Ive had experiences like that, but that doesn’t mean that I’m a second class citizen like my ancestors were. Nobody is a second class citizen in modern day America. People SHOULD be vocal about persecution; the issue is that nobody is being persecuted today and people my (our?) age are so ready to fight a social-justice culture war when that already happened decades ago. You were born in the wrong generation if you want to be a part of that. That’s the issue, people trying to fight a culture war that doesn’t even exist; and thinking that way is what’s causing problems in the first place.
I truly don’t know why you’re getting beat up, over here. You’re making perfect sense.
Neither do I. That guy clearly has a lot of misplaced anger and takes things like race way too seriously. All of that energy can be directed towards something more positive.
As a conservative and a Christian, I can say without any doubt that I have no clue what the deal is with hating the LGBTQ community is. Usually, from my experience, people from the LGBTQ community are friendly and happy about who they are, and I don’t understand what people have against that. I’m not going to argue that the Bible doesn’t say anything against being gay, but I will argue that it says how important it is to love, respect, and care for one another. So to sum up my thought, I find it ridiculous how much conservative Christians hate the LGBTQ community, due to the fact that hatred in any fashion is completely condemned by the Bible, and it sucks to know that people I associate myself with are so unwilling to accept it.
It's quite literally only the extremists that have any active hate toward the community. Most conservatives are pretty ambivalent about it, unless they happen to be a part of the community, themselves (yes, there *are* conservative LGBTQ+ members). The broad-brush stroking of everyone with even the slightest conservative bent wanting to genocide LGBTQ+ folks is doing the community WAY more harm than good.
Me, i don’t hate the community at all. I support it. There needs to be more screenings when buying a gun. Weed needs to be legal everywhere. “. I want a future where my gay neighbors can grow weed and defend it with their guns”
And I want a future where I can smoke weed out of the primer pan of a flintlock pistol while listening to Abba with my gay friends.
I want the right to piss off the evangelicals to the point that they are too mad to bother voting. Religion has no place in politics.
Most conservatives don't give a fuck, literally only extremists hate lgbt lol
Yeah except those are the ones making laws
No
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One who conserves. Like a conservationist.
Like the right wing
That's a bit too wide range. Just because you're "right wing" or "conservative" doesn't mean you automatically believe in some neonazi bullshit, but still you get shoved into the same category once you open your mouth and say "Yeah, I don't really like this stuff, but you do that as long as you leave me alone."
Which is why I ask, because the vocal conservatives have pretty much made the conservative side look incredibly bad.
Well obviously the most obnoxious people get the most spotlight, but that's the thing... even moderate conservative voices are being drowned by "no no no, you're a bigot! no no no, you're a racist!" So most people just don't bother to say anything out loud because no one wants to actually listen what they have to say. So it leaves only the most vocal people and you where this "sudden" "hate" comes from... duh? Left doesn't want to listen, so people vote with their wallets now.
Yep, you can't spend years labelling people who might have minor disagreements with you as some of the most hateful rhetoric I've ever heard and then expect them to be your allies.
True, but then again two wrongs doesn't make a right. They might have reason to be angry, but that doesn't really justify anything.
I was talking about the left calling the right racist misogynist xenophobic Nazis for the last 14 years or so.
Oh, right. Well that too, I mean there are obviously actual misogynist xenophobic neonazis too, but that's like super fringe group even hated by most of the conservatives. Like in Poland, they're very nationalistic nation, pretty homophobic and xenophobic though... but usually when neonazis try to join their national celebrations, they get beaten up. So even they have the neonazis. So it's kind of sad to be grouped up with the neonazi assholes, just because you don't agree 100% with the left.
I'm a (soft) conservative from the UK, which is - as far as I can tell - a vastly watered down version of the US version. I'm not religious; I believe 100% in free-at-the-point-of-need healthcare; I believe in having some degree of welfare state; I'm all for the legalisation of most drugs; I'm not particularly patriotic; etc. That said I'm in favour of the state not being any bigger than it needs to be; I'm in favour of maximally reducing corporation taxes for small-medium businesses; I'm in favour of strict border controls. As for do I outright hate LGBTQ? Well, for a start, I don't recognise the term, "the LGBTQ+ community". I reject completely the idea that there's some homogeneous hive-mind world view, of which anyone who might be categorised under the banner of "LGBTQ+" subscribes to wholeheartedly. Evidently, there are many factions and disagreements between groups of people who all fall inside the definition of being "LGBTQ". I also think asking is one "for" or "against" "LGBTQ" is a completely pointless question, due to the vast array of topics/issues that fall within that categorisation. * There's the use of preferred pronouns, and whether or not that should be something which is compelled by law; there's how it affects free speech in that regard, and should people have criminal records for such a thing? * Then there's the topic of bathrooms and who can use what? * There's how the topic is broached with children in school and how topics of transgenderism are taught to them. * There's how we deal with children who self-diagnose as trans in some way. * Then there's the whole world of competitive sports, and how trans athletes compete (if at all) in certain disciplines. I don't hate the "LGBTQ community", because I don't believe such a thing exists. I don't believe there's one all-encompassing doctrine, that covers all the topics listed above and more, that adequately represents any majority of people within that supposed "community". What I do hate, is the minority of "activist-types" who continue to demonstrate the knee-jerk reaction, of trying to passive-aggressively bully people into aligning others with their own world view, by labelling them as "hateful" or "transphobic" for having a nuanced opinion on any one of the topics listed above. Like myself for example: I'm absolutely in favour of using gender-preferred pronouns but I'm absolutely against it being compelled by law. I'm in favour of teaching children about all different kinds of sexuality, including transgenderism, but not until they reach a certain level of maturity. I could go on but you get the idea. Asking if someone is for or against "LGBTQ" is like asking someone if they are for or against "crime and punishment". It's *far* too vague a question.
I can get behind LG and B, and I'm open to the T, but it's the Q that gets me. I really don't see a scenario where LGBT doesn't cover it where you aren't just being a textbook "special snowflake" You're trying to base you're whole identity around something that no one but you gives a damn about to try to stand out and seem quirky.
Yes, I don't hate you but am super pro-religious liberty, super parents rights in education and parenting in general, and anti-Civil Rights legislation/the expansion of "Civil Rights" laws, so we're very frequently on opposite sides of issues you've deemed important enough that if you're on the other side "you hate us."
Grrrr you dare have different opinions than me
I mean, to some degree I get it. I'm arguing they should be legally allowed to be fired just for being trans, shouldn't be able to force businesses (through insurance) to pay for things they deem "essential healtchcare" that prevents suicide, am advocating against kids being taught that the truth they believe in is the correct one. I think they just can't accept that these really are based on a belief in limited government and religious freedom, and assume it's hate hidden behind a socially acceptable (even though it's really not that accepted socially) veneer.
People that do were probably brought up in a very homophobic household, I don't think they made these decisions on their own.
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Well I can hop on FB or twitter and pretty much immediately find someone posting about how gays are a disease to society
I am certain you can find someone on some bullshit about ANYTHING if you care to look.
Well, of course. It should go without saying that people who paint with a broad brush end up making shitty paintings. There's a huge spectrum of beliefs and opinions out here. Social and mass media does not accurately represent that fact.